July 10, 2024 • 55 mins
ARMOUR WINES:
Website: https://www.armourwines.com/
Wine Club: https://www.armourwines.com/contactus
Instagram: @armourwines
Ever wondered how sealing whole cluster grapes in a tank with CO2 can transform the winemaking process? Join us as we chat with Tyler Armour, the mastermind behind Armour Wines, who passionately unveils the secrets of carbonic maceration. Tyler shares his journey from cheese making to winemaking, detailing his innovative approach to creating vibrant, aromatic wines like his 2023 Carbo Barbo. Learn about the challenges of ripening Barbera grapes and why Tyler lovingly refers to his creations as "porch pounders."
Next, we dive into the business side of winemaking, exploring the power of wine clubs in fostering customer loyalty and providing consistent revenue. Tyler gives us an inside look at the structure of his six-bottle, biannual wine club and discusses potential growth opportunities. We also touch on distribution strategies, including partnerships with Venea Imports and renowned Seattle restaurants, and consider new avenues for expanding his unique wines' reach.
Finally, journey with us through Tyler's hands-on learning experiences, from making Cougar Gold cheese to studying at WSU. Discover his inspiration drawn from the fruit-forward Beaujolais style and his commitment to low-intervention wines. We wrap up with discussions on creative wine label designs, the benefits of clean production practices, and the joys of pop-up tastings. This episode is a must-listen for anyone curious about the art and science of innovative winemaking.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
bung pod.
Welcome back, wine wonder boy.
And we got jazzy jay.
Jazzy.
What is a bum?
The hole of the barrel iscalled a bung hole.
Inside the bung hole is calleda bum wine with mayhem.
That's what it's about.
All right, welcome back to thebung pod.
(00:21):
It's your boy, ian king, akawine wonder boy, and we have
jazzy jay in the building aswell.
Hello everybody.
Uh, whatever you're listeningthis, on whatever platform, uh,
please rate us.
Ideally, five stars would benice.
Um, just helps.
Uh, people notice us and ourpodcasts get discovered and more
people will listen to it.
(00:42):
Oh, I, I love that sound.
We have an awesome podcastepisode for you today.
I'm excited about this becauseI love his wines.
We have Tyler Armour here,winemaker and owner of Armour
Wines.
You got it.
Welcome, thank you.
Thank you, thanks for doingthis, man.
Yeah, I know, I wanted to dothis a long time ago and I'm so
(01:03):
glad that we got it figured out.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, I feel like it's been a few years.
We've been trying to sit downand chat.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, I feel like since I moved to Woodinville I
was bummed, I was like man, Imight not get a chance, it might
not work, yeah it might notwork, but I'm glad we got it to
work.
We're here in his facilityright now.
If you're listening to this, um, it's an awesome little
facility.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Uh, how many cases you make again uh, we're doing
1100 cases, 1100 and gosh, Idon't know what.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
The square footage is small yeah, that's pretty tiny,
but I feel like I see yourwines like everywhere, so yeah,
we're getting them out there.
Yeah, it's awesome, it's abattle so what do we have here
today?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
uh, yeah, I popped the carbo barbo, the 2023 carbo
barbo, so nice, full carbonic.
Uh, barbera barbera nice it'sbeen a it's been a fun one I
love a good carbonic yeah, we,uh, we're all in on the carbonic
um.
Started with the gamay noirthat we make, and then it was
(02:05):
just like what else can Icarbonic?
And it's been a journey like um.
I think the barbaro was next,and then we do a more vedra as
well.
That's full carbonic um.
And then our red blend, le hushis half pinot, half syrah, and
the pinot is full carbonic.
Oh, that's fun.
Yeah, so thatrah and the Pinotis full of carbonic.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Ooh that's fun.
Yeah, that's cool.
So do you want to explain thecarbonic process to our
listeners?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, let's get right into carbonic.
I love this.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yes, I'm here for it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, carbonic is like a winemaker's dream in my
opinion, because you bring inthe whole cluster grapes and put
them in a tank or just leavethem in the, you know, the
harvest bin and basically sealthe bin up and I I push a little
bit of CO2 gas in just to liftout the oxygen, um, or the air,
(02:56):
Um, but other than that, youjust seal it up and let it chill
for two weeks.
So, like I said, winemakersdream, you bring it in and don't
touch it for two weeks, Tuck itin the corner.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Don't look at it.
Don't look at it and do allyour other stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
But yeah, the carbonic process when you're
putting that CO2 in, it gets allthe oxygen out and in a
no-oxygen environment it goesthrough a special process where
it breaks down inside out,basically, and releases all
these fun flavors and aromas.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
What a beautiful color, too, too, you have on
here.
Yeah, so we have a kind of likea violet.
I would say like, yeah, like aviolet color on here.
Um, yeah, it's like red purpleoh yeah, medium opacity for sure
, but it's.
it's so interesting because thiswine drinks a lot lighter than
it looks, because when you lookat it you're like, okay, okay,
there's going to be.
You know it's going to be amedium-bodied wine with, you
know, some tannins in the back,but this is very, very plush.
(03:52):
You definitely get thatcarbonic pop that you get with
like a Beaujolais right, andthen Well, and I'm just a fan of
Barberas in general.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
And you don't really see them a lot in this area.
No, yeah and yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I think the Barbera is like our last ripening fruit
of the year.
Like every year it's stressinducing because it's like
winter's coming and the Barberais still hanging.
So it tends to be a bigger winejust because it's hanging
longer.
But we have to let it hangbecause the acid's also
screaming high.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, longer, but we have to let it hang because the
acid's also screaming high.
Yeah, um, I'm getting like awatermelon grape jolly rancher.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah, I got the watermelon too so nice yeah
perfect for a hot summer day.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
You can crush this.
I would crush this straight up.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, baby, I refer to all of our wines as porch
pounders there you go.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Hey, I love that's the kind of uh era I'm in right
now.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, the porch pounders, yeah um, but yeah, I
think, since it's uh, you know,it's a little bit riper coming
off, like you do get like alittle bit more of a plushness
to it, but I think it does funlike crunchy tannins from the
carbonic and the.
Yeah, just like yeah, the popof the carbonic on the nose is
really fun.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
yeah, no, this is a very wine and I love that you
make the crunchy style.
Yes, awesome.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
What would your tasting notes be on it?
You've given a little, butlet's hear from the winemaker.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
This is newly bottled .
It is released, but newlybottled.
I haven't done my creativewriting yet and came up with my
tasting notes.
But, um, yeah, I think a lot ofwhat you guys are saying.
Like the hard candy I like, Ifeel like that across the board.
On the carbonics you get thatlike the jolly rancher, like the
um, the grape and thewatermelon, um, but then also
(05:40):
there's some like herbaceousnessto it and like earthiness.
I think Barbera tends to havelike that, just like meaty soil.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Italian dank cellar Totally yeah it does Totally.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I mean which is fun?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I love Barberas like Italian Barberas are beautiful,
but I love like what you didwith it is.
You know it's epic, like Iwould prefer.
I would drink this every singleday, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So where do you get most of your grapes from?
I see what it says, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So this Barbera's, uh , down the Wallach slope, um,
I'd say we get most of our fruitoff the Royal Slope, okay, but
I mean just by a little Like weget from all around the state,
really Okay.
So basically, just find growersthat we like to work with that
are doing, you know, goodgrowing that we don't have to,
you know, worry about them toomuch.
(06:38):
Yeah, yeah, so really likeWalla, walla, the Yakima Valley,
wallach Slope, royal Slope,ancient Lakes Our Morved comes
from the Ancient Lakes.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
And what other wines are you making besides Barbera?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yes, okay, so a few.
So for our spring releases,which the Barbera is a spring
release for us, have ourChersiez, uh, which is our
Viognier.
Okay, um, say it one more time.
Yeah, exactly, chersiez, I wasjust talking with someone about
this the other day.
It's that's the green labelright there.
Um, we were talking about how alot of people have problems
(07:16):
pronouncing Viognier.
Like you get the Voigner.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
We have one where I work in every single time.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It's very entertaining.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And then, like I was joking, like I named the wine,
like something even harder topronounce than Viognier yeah.
In retrospect.
But yeah, Cherseas.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
And how'd you get that name?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, exactly, I was reading some book about the
history of the Rhone Valley andthey used to call Viognier
Cherseas.
Oh, okay, In some little tinyvillage somewhere.
Yeah, um, so it's a synonym.
Um, that went out of date andwe thought it'd be fun to put it
on the wine bottle.
But yeah, it's a mouthful.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah totally.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
That's cool, though.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Um yeah, so Cherseyes , viognier, off the Royal Slope,
and then we do a rosé like afield blend, rosé out of an East
Lanache vineyard, and thenagain this is all spring release
.
The Carbo Barbo is a springrelease, and then our Jetem
Gamay Noir is a spring releaseas well.
(08:17):
Cool, yes.
And then fall releases we do.
Let's see what do we do.
We have the La Hush Red Blend,the only blend that we're
currently doing Pinot Syrah,three different Syrahs and then
a more Vedra.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Okay, that's five.
Yeah, vedras are fun too.
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I love that.
That's been pretty consistent,like that lineup the last few
years.
We did do a Tempranillo thislast year.
That's in barrel currently ohfun.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I like Tempranillos too.
Yeah, those are always a goodone, yeah, so why did you pick
those particular grapes?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yes, we do all whole cluster.
Well, I guess for the reds wedo all whole cluster
fermentation.
So working with varieties, thatworks out and it makes sense,
whole cluster fermentation.
So working with varieties, thatthat works out, and it makes
sense.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
um, so started with syrahs, um, just because it's
pretty classic to have wholecluster syrahs, yeah, um did you
ever so with doing only wholecluster when you're early on in
the process of, I guess, whenyou were a little bit more green
, I, I guess as a winemaker, oryour label, did you ever run
(09:27):
into the issue with your winesbeing too stemmy or too green?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
No, not that I'm aware of.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So I've seen that a lot where, like people will you
know, like a Syrah maybe, orI've seen it in Grenache as well
, with people picking early andthen also doing whole cluster I
get like a lot of those kind ofpure zini green.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, you know I don't.
We have one.
We got Syrah from a new venuethis last harvest and it is on
the greener side, like probablythe greenest that we've made,
and I'm thinking that's probablylike greenest that we've made.
Yeah, and I'm thinking that'sprobably like the first time
I've kind of ran into it, but Idon't know.
It's just um, I look a lot atthe stems I guess, Um, I know
(10:15):
people have said like, chew onthe stems and see what that
tastes like.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Um, I don't chew on the stems but I look at the
stems and try and not pick whenthey're ferociously green and
tannin bombs.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, it's a balancing act to make sure
things are right, but not tooright.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, I know Brandon Moss from Gramercy because they
are known for picking reallyearly and there are some of the
first ones out there, usuallyespecially in the red willow
vineyard, and he was saying,like you don't cause they do a
lot of whole cluster.
And he was saying you don'treally need the stems to be
completely lignified in order todo a whole cluster.
I think that is a misconceptionor an assumption that people
(11:00):
make.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
If you just chew on the stems and then if they're a
little sweet, then you can usethem for their strong tannins.
Maybe I need to start chewingon, I don't know yeah it sounds.
It seems like you're doing agreat job so far.
So I don't know, yeah, no, it'suh, yeah, so picking varieties,
kind of based off of that, um,you know stuff that we can do
whole cluster um, and thenvarieties that I just like to
(11:23):
drink too.
I guess guess yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Like.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Gamay Noir Like we drink a ton of Beaujolais at
home.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Oh, yes, I love it.
We have to hang out, man.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I love like slightly chilled like red wines.
Yeah, yes, A lot of timespeople serve reds way too warm
around here.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, way too warm, especially then it's 110 out.
Yeah, and I still want that redwine yeah, but not the same
temperature as the outside world?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
yeah, so what is your wine club like, uh?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
like the release yeah , we've got a wine club.
Um, we focus a lot on wholesale, like distribution and stuff,
um, and we don't have a tastingroom, so a wine club is, I think
, maybe a little bit of achallenge, like we don't have a
you know a spot for them to hangout, um.
But we do release releaseparties in the spring and the
(12:15):
fall.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, you do special events here in your facility in
the facility.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, um.
So it's a smaller wine club butwe we try and promote it yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
So do you promote it mostly like word of mouth and
then they can sign up online, oris it?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
in person Mostly in person, okay, because I don't
even think it's on the website.
Okay, we're dropping the ballon that one.
My wife's going to hear thisand say I told you so.
Um, yeah, we, uh, we shouldprobably focus on wine club more
, because it's great like wehave.
Um, it's easy money yeah, and Imean yeah loyal customers yeah,
(12:54):
they're like great people, likethey're all the people that
really want to sit there andlike hang out with you and drink
your wine, and yeah, yeah umsupport.
It's maybe like a 30 to 40people in the club currently.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Um, but yeah no.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
And is it like a three bottle club, six bottle?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, uh, six bottle club.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
So twice a year, so in the spring, six bottles six
bottles.
So try and make it doable Umfor everybody.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, Imean, if you want to like do a
full case in the spring and thefall, I'll sign you up for that.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, totally have you ever um done like do you
have a lot of wine club memberson the West side and stuff where
?
You could do like West sidepickups.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Uh, we just have one member on the West side.
Okay, Um, and we shipped to herUm.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
So, because you do wholesale, where can we find
your wines?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I should have had a cheat sheet in front of me here.
Yeah, so over in Seattle we'rewith Venea Imports currently
Okay, and they get the wine fromlike Bellingham down to Olympia
on the west side, okay, awesome.
And they're just doing the westside.
For us we kind of handleeastern Washington.
Yeah, for us we kind of handleeastern washington, yeah, um.
(14:17):
but yeah, over on the west side,um, we're at quite a few of the
sea creatures, restaurants,yeah, yeah, um, I'm trying to
think of the names off the topof my head um, the one in the
the dome.
What is the?
The dome?
The bio dome, the um?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Oh, oh, uh, yeah, I forgot yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Uh, wilmots goes there, we go.
Yeah, um, but that doesn't.
Yeah, it's in the sphere orsomething.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Anyways, that's downtown, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, yeah, um Atoma is a great restaurant.
Um up in, I think, wallingfordum great people and like they
moved through a decent amount ofour wine.
There Are you guys?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
at Live Bud at all.
Not that I'm aware of that's aheavy restaurant group and
they're like a vegan vegetariankind of restaurant.
We probably eat this up, andthey also are.
Yeah, they have a lot ofnatural wine selections.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
And, yeah, I feel like you'd fit in really well
there yeah, we I'll give thewine buyer a call there you go
we had him on the podcast once.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Okay, yeah for purple chris horn okay, really awesome
guy, yeah, yeah I've never metchris, but he's a great dude.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
The name he's a wine buyer for purple cafe and
everyone, all the restaurantsfor heavy restaurant groups.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
So so yeah, yeah, yeah, we.
I was telling you earlier thatwe just started working with
Venea, so I kind of knew wherethe wines were a month or two
ago, but now it's they'refurther and farther.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Yeah so where did you like?
How'd you get into thewinemaking?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I went to school for winemaking.
I was down at WSU as well GoCougs, yeah right go Cougs.
Both my wife and I are Cougs.
We were in Pullman and I was, Ithink, one of the last classes
where they let you do the V&Eprogram out of Pullman before
they switched it all down to theTri-Cities.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Okay, gotcha and E program out of Pullman before
they switched it all down to theTri-Cities.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Okay, gotcha Graduated in 2010 down there.
Fun.
Yeah, it was food science.
Cool Down there.
I guess I went from generalstudies and then food science
because I started working at thecreamery making the cougar gold
cheese.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Oh cool, I noticed the cougar gold over there.
Yeah, the can?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
That's a dog water bowl, so exactly.
Um, yeah, I made cheese andstudied cheese making for a few
years and then took were youwanting to be a cheese monger?
Uh, it was fun I mean.
I've like worked at a number ofbakeries and like I always
ferment stuff Like something'salways fermented on the counter,
(16:51):
and so cheese was like, yeah,ferment stuff like something's
always fermented on the counter,yeah.
And so cheese was like, yeah,this, this could be a career, um
.
And then took like an electivecourse in wine, um, and it was
like, whoa, I need to switch.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Like is this the one where they like let you drink in
class?
Yeah, oh yeah, oh god, that wassuch a good class.
Yeah, it was like a no-brainer.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I went like straight to the counselor or whatever.
I was like I need to switch.
Uh, and luckily it was an easyswitch because food science.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah, you probably had most of the classes, yeah,
um yeah, I was over warm milk,it was it was a time of my life.
Yeah, I remember getting inthat class and was just hyped,
yep, um, and then you know, goto the Coug right after.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yep.
Cause might as well if you'regoing to start early, keep going
, Um I like Valhalla.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, 80th night of Valhalla, it was a good time.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Um, yeah, so studied at WSU, graduated in 2010.
Um, I was assistant winemakerfor Mary Sellers in Pullman at
the time.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Patrick's amazing.
Yeah, I love both of them, so Iworked with Banyans.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Oh, okay, yeah, Golf course out there.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, so I was one of their catering managers the
whole time I was at WSU andobviously we did a lot of events
with Patrick and they are justphenomenal people.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, I learned a lot of good things from Patrick,
including how to properly drinkthere you go, yes, yes,
Important parts yes.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I told you this story .
I went to Pullman, for those ofyou.
So we have listeners outside ofWashington State that don't
know what Pullman is.
That is where Washington StateUniversity is.
They're the rival to Universityof Washington Hus.
That don't know what Pullman is?
Um, that is where Washingtonstate university is.
They're the rival to uh,university of Washington Huskies
.
Uh, in Seattle.
Um, it's on the Eastern side ofthe state, but I went there for
the side of the state Um.
(18:44):
I went there for a homecominggame.
My girlfriend she's a Coug,she's like a legacy sorority uh
coug over there, and so I wentwith her and I was a little sick
, like I had a cold, just it'sjust like my sinuses were
stuffed up, yeah, and I was likedon't let that slow you down.
Yeah, and I was like well, I, Idon't want to talk to a true
coug yeah, yeah I'm not a truecoug I went, uh, for viticulture
(19:06):
online, um, but I've alwaysbeen a, uh, a coug growing up,
um in general, so I've alwayswrapped the gear and cheered for
them, um.
But anyways, I didn't want todrink beer because I was
thinking, okay, I'm gonna be onmy coors light game the whole
day.
You know, I can drink coorslights all day and I'm good, um,
but I was like a little stuffedup and I was like, well, beer
(19:28):
is gonna stuff me up more.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I don't want that and I don't want to talk to people
normally stuff you up no okay,um, not necessarily, but like
when I'm sick I just, I justfeel it a lot and I was like you
know what clears my sinuses?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
it's ginger beer and whiskey, and so I'm gonna do
whiskey gingers the whole time.
But the thing is I was drinkingthem light, course lights and I
just man, it was rough.
We went to the game.
I fell asleep in the secondquarter and I woke back up like
halfway through the secondquarter, went to Valhalla, had
(20:03):
some uh, some of their wingswhich is needed, definitely
needed and then some courselights and I was like I am going
to pass out, and so I was liketrying to hobble my way back to
where we're staying and it wasrough.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
It was almost sums up like the six years or whatever
that I was in Pullman.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
So yeah, there is times, especially when you like
if you could go to the dunesprior to a game.
You're just hammered before andyou're just like, yeah, no, I'm
great.
And I think one time I tried tosneak like a fifth of fireball
in.
I'm like how stupid are youlike?
Oh yeah, that really was gonnasneak in classic yeah good times
(20:45):
over there yeah but patrick,back to that.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, it's a great person, yeah so, yeah, I was at
mary's cellar for quite a fewyears, which was great, I mean
because a lot of of the otherV&E kids, you know, didn't get
that hands-on experience.
Because, yeah, wsu is very likeit's like books, winemaking,
like a lot of the deep sciencebehind winemaking, so it was
(21:09):
good to have like the hands-onand practical side of it.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I'm honestly surprised there's not at least
one or two more wineries overthere.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I know that I'm aware of at least.
I mean, there's a few I feellike.
But yeah, I mean with how manylike people come into town and
like Mom's weekend.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Well, I guess it's parents weekend now.
But for those weekends that waslike always a stop for us.
Oh yeah, yeah For thoseweekends.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
That was always a stop for us.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
And then.
So you went to Chelan afterthat.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
No, so right after WSU, I graduated in December of
2010.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So January of 2011, went down to Australia.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Oh fun, what part.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Western Australia down in Margaret River.
Oh cool yeah.
Oh, that's fun, that's awesome.
So epic beaches.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
So we're down there for six months making wine and
hanging out on the beach.
Six months yeah, that's a while.
Yeah, that's a long while.
Yeah.
Six-month visa we used everyday of the six-month visa.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I was supposed to go to Tasmania and make a Pinot
Noir Chardonnay and sometraditional method, you know,
sparkling, and then COVIDhappened.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Oh, bummer, yeah, you got to get down there if you
can.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, I was going to go there for a harvest, but yeah
, I definitely want to go downthere at some point.
But yeah, I love, I love thatarea.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It's so cool.
Yeah, I was at.
It was at a bigger facility, godown there at some point.
But yeah, I love um, I lovethat area.
Yeah, it's so cool.
Um, yeah, I was it, it was at abigger facility.
So I got to experience, like mytank farm, winemaking which,
yeah, definitely helped steerhow I want to make wine, a bit
like not in a tank farm yeah sounderstandable I was gonna ask
you so, coming from wazoo andtheir program, how did you get
(22:56):
into making um, I'm gonna saylow intervention?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
wines uh, because I don't like the natural term yeah
, unless kind of natural yeahbecause, as a bad connotation,
because there's so many naturalwines out there with a bunch of
wine faults and they're justgross and I usually call them
natty wines.
Yeah, when they're like thatbunch of wine faults and they're
just gross and I usually callthem natty wines yeah when
they're like that, and then lowintervention when they're high
quality, like yours, with nowine faults and taste beautiful.
(23:21):
Um, yeah, yeah, I mean, you knowyou.
Uh, you was it.
Walk the walk, you know awesomeyeah so you know you can say a
lot of things, but you show itand that's yeah, that's
important and I love what you do.
So how did you get into makingthis style of wine?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah.
So I think, kind of going backto the tank farm and just other
wineries I've worked for, justseeing how wine can be made with
all of the junk that can beadded and all the manipulation
and things taken away and thingsadded, and yeah, it's just not.
It's like, wow, that's horrible, like I don't.
(23:59):
If I make wine ever, I don'twant to do that.
Yeah, um, and I think with thatand then just wines that I was
tending to like be drinking werejust kind of low intervention
wines and I think just thecommon combination of those two
is like yeah, how'd you startlike drinking those styles of
wines?
(24:20):
um, yeah, that's a good question, um, working at.
So, after australia went towoodenville, um, I worked a
harvest for DiStefano Wineryjust a harvest gig.
And then I was at a placecalled Barron's it was Barron's
5 when I started but then justbecame Barron's Lots of big cabs
(24:44):
and stuff.
There was a guy that workedthere that had a great knowledge
in wine and shared lots of goodwines and I feel like they
tended to lean towards.
That's where I feel like I raninto Beaujolais for the first
time.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
It was like oh man, Okay yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
This is changing my life, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
So what would you?
Because I feel like a lot ofpeople, especially in Washington
, really don't drink Beaujolais.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So at least in our region yes they definitely don't
.
Um, how would you explain it tosomeone that you know they see
this on a menu?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
yeah like why they should pick that over whatever
else yeah, well, I guess, yeah,like the style of beaujolais, at
least in my mind, is like fruitforward, like yep, and that's
like when, like when we'remaking wines like I want to make
wines like the first thing yousmell or taste is like the fruit
, like I don't want it to becovered up with too much oak or
(25:47):
um, um, yeah, I want it to belike bright and fresh and like
those and again, like thosecrunchy tannins like, um, like
this isn't like big syrupy winethat we're that I'm trying to
make.
So, um, yeah, yeah, just lightand fresh, acid driven.
Um, good with food is important.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I think it's great with food.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
We, uh, do a lot of cooking at home and it's
important that the wines canhandle the food and the food,
the wine.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I think this goes really well with like.
I mean a lot of people.
Usually they tend to make morelike fish or poultry at home a
lot, and I feel like this reallygoes well with any of those.
Like this could be a killerThanksgiving wine.
This goes well with like likethis could be a killer
thanksgiving wine.
This goes well with like uh wego about barbecue.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I mean, like just about to say, the summer
barbecue it can reallyabsolutely stand up to it, for
sure.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, yeah, this one's very refreshing, and just
I mean this was definitely a ohsure, forget about man, let's go
.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
This is definitely a great one to chill for, like
that summer on the porch, yeah,enjoying an evening.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of like with our rosé and white,
like you know, down in the ice.
But then a lot of our reds,like just sitting up on top of
the ice is like perfect, becausethey get a little bit of that
chill.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
But not too much.
Yeah, yeah, you can still tasteall the profiles in it, but
it's a little chilled down.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
You did a pop-up uh tasting at Norwood and Wenatchee
.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, we do those somewhat frequently yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And you're just down the road.
Essentially, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Kind of in town here yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
When it across town, I guess across town, very small
town, but yeah, across the smallcity of wenatchee.
Um, I was really, I was tryingreally hard to be there for it.
Yeah, um, I was there at, uh,seth kitsky's um because I went
to his because, like we've nevermet in person and I just wanted
to chat with him because we'vebeen kind of dming here and
there um back and forth for afew years and I was like, well,
he's coming to wenatchee and I Iwas living in Chelan at the
time, so I was like I'll comedown for that and I was really
(27:56):
trying hard to come to yours,but I was also working as a
cellar master, yeah, and the daywent long.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And I was like super, super bummed because I was
trying to make it down in time,but I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
There will be more pop-ups.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
I'm glad, I'm glad and I'll be there for him Cause
I haven't really tried a lot ofyour wines.
I mean, I've had your Gamaycause they have Gamay at Sorrel
on the list there, which isawesome.
They do all Washington winesfor their whole restaurant but
I've never tried this one andI've.
I've looked at your website abunch of times.
I'm like, okay, I'm going tosee what they got.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
They had a wine club on that website.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, oh geez Gosh.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
At some point I'll figure out a way to sign up for
it.
Cause this is like my, my styleof wine.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
So, uh, yeah, yeah, so the um, yeah, the Carbo Barbo
has been a real fun one.
I think people like just sayingCarbo Barbo too.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Carbo Barbo is a great name for this.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, it was definitely like a dad joke
sitting around the table LikeCarbonic Barbera, Carbo Barbo.
The kids laughed and I was likeyes.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Take it.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
We're doing that.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Now we're, yeah, naming wines.
Dad jokes.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, I also love your aesthetic, like on your
labels um I was gonna ask youabout the design.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Looks great the design.
Yeah, I feel like there was achildren influencer uh no, we,
we paid uh a professionaldesigner to help us do it.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, oh no, yeah, the children drawing drawings up
around the winery.
Yes, of the wine bottles whichI'm sure we're gonna get called
into school sometime whenthey're drawing wine or
something.
I'm sure we'll get in troublefor that down the road.
Yeah, a friend of a friendthat's a graphic designer for a
brewery up in Canada, oh, okaycool.
(29:47):
We worked with him and ourHeliotrope Syrah, which it's not
in this room, we can't see it.
Um, our heliotrope Syrah, whichit's not in this room, we can't
see it.
It's a pink label like pink andpurple, cool, that was the
first one, um, and we wanted,like a design that we could just
kind of change the colors onand like evolve wine to wine.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Um, but like, even if , like, like on the Carbo Barbo,
here it doesn't, but you stillkind of you can recognize it's a
logo that it's an armor wine.
So yeah, and it's been fun likefinding color combinations for
the different wines and yeah,that's really fun and people are
like constantly asking likewhat is it Like, what is the
(30:26):
design?
Because it's kind of like abumpy rainbow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Maybe or like a flower kind of.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, so I think someone said a bumpy rainbow of.
Yeah, so I think someone said abumpy rainbow, and so we made
our rosea I didn't notice thebumpy rainbow over there yeah,
and then I just heard someonethought they saw this on the
shelf and they thought it was asheep okay okay yeah, I could
see the sheep.
I can see the wool yeah soapparently we got sheep wine or
(30:52):
something.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I don't know.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So for the Helio.
You took me through like alittle tour before this episode
and I saw the Helio was labeledon the sandstone jar.
It is indeed, yeah.
So take me through the processof why a sandstone jar.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, so again, like all of our reds Thank you, all
our reds, whole cluster and allneutral French oak.
So again, just trying to makesure we're seeing fruit first,
not covering it up with too muchnew oak and stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
So you don't do any new French oak.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
We don't do any new oak at all.
No, maybe eventually like verysmall amounts here and there.
But it's expensive too, andwe're a startup winery.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
so it is and I've never.
I mean.
I understand the reason, butwhen I was making wine and my, I
was planning my own label atone point and I was like I'm not
gonna use french oak like newoak for anything like there's no
point because I don't like theyou know aggressive clove
(32:05):
vanilla flavor, usually, unlessit needs it, with like a I don't
know like a nebbiolo or like a,you know, like a big cab or
something, but that's notsomething that I would make
personally, um, and so I.
it's funny because I did like awhole business plan and I had
like all the great varietieslined up and a lot of them are
similar to what you're doing.
(32:25):
But, like um, it's really coolto see that because I've, you
know, think that is missing alot in Washington State,
especially Because I wasinspired by Sonoma and they're
doing like Trousseau Noir,trousseau Gris and Gamay and a
bunch of fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
And in like vessels that aren't offering a bunch of
oak flavor, exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
More fresh style, and that's something that I think
is beautiful and something I candrink every single day.
I could probably drink thiswhole bottle by myself.
To be honest, let's do it.
That's something that I thinkis beautiful and something I can
drink every single day.
Like I could probably drinkthis whole bottle by myself.
Yep, to be honest, let's do it.
Let's do it.
We're surrounded by walls andeconomics we can just keep going
and like economics too.
It's like, okay, I'm not payinglike up to what 1500, yeah, a
(33:07):
barrel for french new french oak, or up to like 900 a barrel for
new French oak, or up to like$900 a barrel for new American.
I might like I'll go to anotherwinery, buy their used oak for
like 80 bucks to a hundred bucksor something like that.
And then it just economics andalso my personal profile.
(33:28):
You know my palate, it justthis synced up.
You know, I'm just like thatjust makes you know my palate.
It just just synced up.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
You know, I'm just like that, just makes you know
and I feel like, with thebeaujolais style, like how you
initially said, fruit forwardand once you bring in that new
french oak, you're just pullingthat away yep, covering it up,
yeah, you're getting those oakyflavors and yeah, I feel like
it's not always necessary yeah,I want to see what the fruit can
(33:56):
do.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
A small winery too, like all of our lots are very
small.
So like one barrel in, like alot, is, you know, gonna end up
being like 25 of the finalvolume, or yeah, it's not like
if.
If we were a bigger winery,yeah, you could maybe sneak in
some new French oak.
That wouldn't, you know, wouldbe a lower percentage.
Yeah, yeah.
(34:18):
We're good with the neutral oakfor now.
But, yeah, back to thesandstone tank, just looking for
other vessels that offered that.
You know, a storage vesselthat's not imparting, you know,
flavors and tannins and aromas.
So yeah, um, yeah, and thesandstone's been fantastic, um
(34:38):
is this your first vintage withit uh no, the uh previous
vintage was the first.
So we have um our viognier, sowe ferment our viognier in there
, um, and then pull it out afterit's done fermenting and then
age our heliotrope Syrah for 10months.
Fun, and it's just a portion ofthe final blend, so it ends up
(34:59):
being like a third sandstone,third normal barrels and then a
third punchins, so big barrels.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Okay, cool, yeah, yeah, big punchins.
I didn't see a punchin backthere, I just miss it.
They're right here next to you.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Oh, hey, look at that .
What's up, guys Big?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
punch-ins.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, and sandstone.
We were talking earlier how Ithink I like it better than
concrete Concrete's kind offussy.
You have to be careful cleaningit and you have to coat the
inside with the tar crystals,vassic, the inside with the tar
crystals, yeah, um, yeah, andthe sandstone's like it's a
(35:38):
fired sandstone, so it's gonethrough a kiln and it's like
pretty indestructible.
Yeah, so, but it like, fromwhat I've been told, like it
breathes very similar to barrels, um, where concrete can be a
bit tighter okay, I waswondering about.
Clay is like a bit looser um,the sandstone is apparently
right along the lines of thebarrel.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Oh, really yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I've heard that before Okay, cool, so it's my
jam, basically, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
And yeah, I think we'll probably get more for sure
and maybe bigger ones.
But, again, they're expensive.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
They are expensive.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
They are very expensive.
So are you from the Wenatcheearea originally.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, Born and raised in Wenatchee both my wife and I
.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Okay, wow, did you guys know each other before WSU?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yep High school.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Aw, high school sweetheart.
That's cute.
I love that.
That's adorable.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, both went to WSU.
She's international businessand German.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Oh wow, okay, look at that.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
That's fun, the business helps.
Yeah, we're not using theGerman a whole lot currently.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, you're not making Rieslings.
No, I know I might make aRiesling this year.
Or Müller-Turgau, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, that would be fun.
Well, and how often does she?
Is she very?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
involved with the winemaking and everything.
Uh, winemaking during harvestand bottling, yes, absolutely.
Um, the rest of the year, sheleaves it up to me.
Um, yeah but, like she does alot of the business side of it
okay um, I would be lost withouther on that Um which is it's
kind of like our relationship.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Me and Jasmine.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
So she's like more like on the business side, and
I'm I don't know, yeah, yeah.
I'm more of the like theproduction production person.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely yeah, yeah definitely
.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I have a lot of things to do.
Yeah, this isn't my job, whichI at some point.
That'd be cool.
Yeah, we'll get there one day,baby step you know, just drink
for a living and interviewpeople.
Doesn't sound like a bad day.
It's pretty great.
No, not at all.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
And I like talking about wine, so it's fun.
You get to meet a reallyawesome community.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, so do you have any issues with like, because
you do native fermentationsun-fined, unfiltered, yep.
Do you have any issues withnative fermentations at all?
Do you find anything gettingstuck ever?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Fortunately haven't had any like epic stucks.
Yeah, um, that are 2022.
Carbo barbo, we're drinking the23 currently.
Um, stopped like the very end,with just a little bit of sugar
in it which, like if we openedto 22 right now, it would.
It would taste sweeter, forsure.
(38:30):
Yeah, um, but still like peoplewere loving it like crazy.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
But no, I've been very fortunate that, yeah, so
you've never had to like try andrestart something?
No, Because I wonder what thelow intervention process would
be to restart something BecauseI've restarted.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
One before and it was a pain in the ass.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
With commercial yeast or no?
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yes, with commercial yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Because I've done that before for other wineries
too, and it's a process, butyou're just adding so much shit
to the wine to clean it up.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Yeah, it's not even wine, at that point almost.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
I mean it's wine, Not that you really have to
categorically.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Not that you have to put anything really on these
labels.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah, no labels.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
but yeah, no, I've been lucky that if galloping can
say their wine, then that'swine too.
It's great.
Um, they don't listen to thepodcast, which I actually don't
even know, but they might um,yeah, what were we saying?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
oh, just restarting, like any stuck fermentation, oh
yeah, so just, yeah, going backto like finding like growers
that I really like working with,that do a really good job, that
have really clean fruit, umbecause, like, why?
Speaker 1 (39:45):
why would a uh ferment get stuck?
I mean, there's a lot ofdifferent things in my head, but
you just talked about thegrowers, so okay, could it come
from also the vineyard?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Like, if you've got pretty destroyed gross fruit,
it's going to have a bunch ofother non-yeast microorganisms
on it that are going to competeand eventually maybe knock out
your yeast populations, right.
Eventually, you know, maybeknock out your yeast populations
, right.
Um.
And then there's certainvineyards out there that like,
(40:19):
just don't carry yeast loads onthem, um, so you bring it into
the winery and it's just, itmight start a little bit from
like house yeast that's floatingaround, but it's not going to
be strong enough to fully kickit off so um.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
so I have an uncomfortable question, a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Here it is.
Let me take a sip of wine.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
So, I mean, I've talked with a lot of people, a
lot of wine professionals thathave been in the business for a
long time, and there's thisongoing debate between native
yeast and a lot of theconventional.
It seems like the more theconventional um winemakers and
(40:59):
growers are saying well, it'snot necessarily native yeast,
it's just like whatever is themost dominant yeast that's
floating around in your wine,that's starting it yeah um, what
is your opinion on that?
like I, I tried to kind ofcombat it because in Santa
Barbara that's where my winejourney began and all the people
(41:19):
that I'm friends with downthere they do a lot of native
ferments, and one of them PiedraSossi, sossi, mormon and Raj
Par they started their own yeastculture within that specific
vineyard.
Yeah, um, and they do a pied decouve, or pied de couve, uh, to
start their ferments a lot oftimes, and also witcraft the
(41:41):
same kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yep, um, I've done a pied de couve before you do it's
a process um yeah I don't do itanymore.
I think it's uh yeah,unnecessary or yeah, it's just.
Uh, it's a lot of work and Ifeel like it.
It didn't work out for me likeI feel, like my, ferments are
kicking off just fine bythemselves.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah, yeah, so did you do that because you wanted
to try something, or becausewanted to try.
Okay, science shit basicallyyeah, play around, this is fun
like, yeah, yeah, see what youcould do, yeah yeah, but like
what do you think is it?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
do you think it think it is?
Whatever the most dominantyeast in your cellar is, that's
starting the native ferment.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, for sure that plays a huge role, like what's
floating around your cellar, Ithink, for us in this space.
We've never had commercialyeast in here before and it's
never been a winery previous tous so there shouldn't be any
like commercial yeast yeah umstrains floating around um but
(42:41):
then are you worried aboutbertanomyces, also known as
brett, while you strain, thosepeople.
um yeah, I mean, like there'sbrett that comes in on the
grapes.
I guess I'm not super worriedabout it.
Maybe I should be, but I think,for the most part, the grapes
(43:01):
that we bring in, you know, tendto be pretty clean.
I think the majority of themicroorganisms are Saccharomyces
, and it finishes fermentationfor us.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
So you haven't had a problem with bread or anything
like that.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Not a huge problem, I don't think.
I think there's probably littlebits here and there, but not
over the top.
And to be completely excuse me,to be completely honest, I'm
like very sensitive notsensitive to Brett for some
reason, like like other peoplethat are like holy shit, this is
(43:40):
like a Brett bomb.
Yeah, like I, it doesn't hit meas bad.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
So yeah, when I think of Brett is there is there
Brett in this carbo barbo?
Is that what you're saying?
There's no, brett.
Is that the uncomfortableconversation we're having?
No, for those of you listening,every wine I've had from Armour
Wines has been very clean asfar as wine faults are concerned
, also very beautiful andcomplex in flavor profile.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
So you're good on all of us.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Which is why this podcast is happening, because if
I tasted your wines and Ithought they weren't good, I
wouldn't do this podcast withyou.
It's like I'm here because I'ma fan, so I don't do any
podcasts.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
We should do that one time, just give one person.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
We just don't like, just don't do any podcasts.
If I'm not, we should do thatone time, just give one person
we just don't like.
Just don't like, yeah, justlike, don't tell them that,
obviously, but and I think, likeSuper uncomfortable, I don't
want to be fake.
I hate being fake.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
It's the worst thing.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I never said we'd have to be fake.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I would just tell them that their line sucks.
Can you do better?
Speaker 2 (44:47):
please my background.
Going back to the cheese makingyeah, you have to be super
clean to make cheese or elsepeople die.
Yeah, so I think I wasfortunate to start my food
processing journey in a cheesemaking facility.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Because I'm over the top clean freak when it comes
time for harvest.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
And well, just cleaning everything um, which I
think helps, especially makinglow intervention wines, like you
know, to not have um that likedirty production room smell, and
yes, I think I I mean, I'vebeen to a couple handful of
wineries that they are just notorganized or not clean, and you
(45:36):
know for me to look at that andsay, oh great, I'm drinking your
wine and this is what yourproduction facility looks like.
Yeah, I think, and you knowit's definitely a practice that
people it's an at-home practiceand it's a work practice and I
think it is so important,especially for the winemakers,
(45:59):
to take it more seriously thansome do.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, yeah, because if you have like a dirty
production room, I feel like youcould smell in the glass.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
Yes, I feel like you could smell it in the glass, yes
, and you can have all the moneyin the world, but just because
you have all the money doesn'tmean your wine's going to be
clean if you're not cleaning upafter your production is filled.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
I've seen, because some people make the excuse like
, oh, we have a really smallspace.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
It doesn't matter but .
Speaker 1 (46:27):
I've seen these smallest spaces.
For example, here Be completelyorganized and clean like yours
and like uh tanya from s yeah,we were just talking about that
off off air and, um, you knowlike she has a little garage yep
, you know, in her house andthat she makes beautiful wines
(46:47):
yeah, very clean, beautiful,yeah, and beautiful wines, yeah.
And so do you.
And it's like you know, youdon't necessarily have to have
like all the bells and whistlesand a huge space.
You just have to be organizedand clean and figure it out for
yourself.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Yeah, when you even worked I think it was the
Carhartts you said that they hadum like tools for inside and
for outside.
Yeah, so it's not alwaysnecessary, but you know, it's
the importance of bringingwhatever's outside inside and
vice versa.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
The car hearts are, in my opinion, known in my mind
for going above and beyond andbeing completely above approach
with like everything you know,um, like they go out of their
way to make, with likeeverything you know, um, like
they go out of their way to makesure, like everything is dialed
in, everything's thoughtthrough to the tea, and so like
(47:40):
they also do, uh, lowintervention wines there as well
, they do a mix, they do someconventional uh and they do
commercial yeast, and then theyalso do a lot of native stuff,
and so it really depends,because they have two labels.
And one thing that Chase Carhartwas telling me and he was on
the pod in episode 10 or 12 orsomething like that, but when I
(48:03):
worked there it was like theseare inside tools only, like
squeegees, you know, brooms orwhatever it is.
These are inside tools only andthese are outside tools only,
like squeegees, you know, broomsor whatever it is.
These are inside tools only andthese are outside tools only.
So for cleaning up, the crushpad is a different tool that you
have to grab.
Oh yeah, then the inside tools,but you never want to mix them.
You'll get yelled at I've triednot to.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think I'm a yeller.
I talk strongly to a lot ofinterns about.
Let's not put that on theground, let's lean that up.
It's just small things.
I think that make a differencewhen it all adds up.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
So you have interns that work with you.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
No, like previous winemaking, oh, previous
winemaking, gotcha.
I have three children that areinterns For life.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
They don't have a choice.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Don't have a choice in that room.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Yeah, but that's also just a great thing to teach
those kids from the get-go, Imean, especially with this new
day and age of children comingout.
They probably could use thatlesson.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
No offense to the younger generations listening
but, it is concerning some days.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
You guys need to work .
Oh my gosh, I went to.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
this is totally off subject, but I went to a coffee
shop in Chelan the other day andthe balls on them.
I got my like the card readerback and it was 20, 30, 40, or
50% tip.
What?
And I was like you're high.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
For a coffee shop.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
And they're like maybe in high school, and I'm
like 50% 50% for a coffee shopDrive and it was drive-thru only
.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
And I was like you literally just heated up a
burrito in a microwave and mademe a Red Bull with coconut milk
in it Like you literally justwent like this Servers that find
any restaurants don't get 50%.
No, when they actually busttheir butts yeah where they
actually do a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
But I'm like.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Looking at this little high schooler and was
like you're not even giving mean option below 20%.
It's wild.
She's trying to save up forairpods or something like that,
yeah, probably I was just like,oh my gosh, and like people are
getting so like sick of tippingand I think, well, and that just
(50:23):
like proves, well, everyone'skind of kind of constrained
right now with the economy rightnow.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
It's kind of crazy.
That's why we see a lot of wine, wine sales a decline yeah,
huge decline, just kind of itsucks, but yeah but yeah, the
tipping we've been trying tocombat that, you know.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
Yeah, I mean I, I also got, uh, I was getting my
air filters clean on my furnaceand stuff and they're like do
you want to tip?
And I'm like to do your job.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
No, it's a little wild yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
Like I'm so confused.
Interesting topic I could rantabout that all day, even though
like tip me all the time.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
But when it comes to me, that 50% makes sense% 50%
for Jasmine.
If you see her in a tastingroom, go tip her 50%, please.
But no, I first learned aboutyour style of winemaking through
when you were at Fielding Hillsbefore and then you did the
(51:28):
concentric program, and I'm awine nerd and my parents live in
manson chelan area and theytexted me.
They're like a picture of thisgamay because, you know, uh,
when I was going through all ofmy uh sommelier certifications,
um, I wanted, you know, burgundy, but I couldn't afford it.
(51:53):
And so I went to Beaujolais andI was like, wow, this is
phenomenal for 45 bucks to getcrew Beaujolais for 45 or less a
lot of times, and now it's like70 or less, but you know, it
happens here we are.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
When you get.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
That's because, like sommeliers and stuff, started
propping up beaujolais andeveryone started buying it,
which is great because I I lovegamay, and so when I saw
carbonic gamay and I was like,oh my gosh, this is happening
again chelan, this is awesome,um.
and so they gave me a bottle ofit and I was like, okay, this is
(52:31):
good, this is really good, Ilike this, I like where this is
going.
And then I was like, who madethis?
And they're like, oh, tylerarmor from fielding hills.
And I was like, okay, cool.
And then after that I juststarted following you because,
like and no offense to anyone Ifeeling Hills isn't necessarily
my style of wine and so I don'treally gravitate towards their
(52:53):
brand necessarily, but theConcentric Project was awesome.
And then I just startedfollowing you wherever you went
and then when you came out withyour own label, I was like I
have to try them, I have to trythem.
So I'm so glad to have you onthe podcast, man, yeah this is
great.
Yeah, I'm glad that you're doingwhat you're doing and I love
what you're doing, so sign upfor the wine club.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
That will be on the website.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
It'll be on the website.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Can they email?
I know what.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
I'm doing this afternoon.
Can they email anyone for thewine club?
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yeah, I mean you can contact for them on the website
and we'll get you signed up forsure.
It's just not like a superfancy form on the website.
But yeah, we'll get you signedup.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Work on that later today.
Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
Sign up for the Wine Club.
At some point I will be a WineClub member.
I love everything you do, sothis is my third wine of yours.
I've tried.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
Only third.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
Only third.
This is my first.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
This is my third Holy moly, well, except for Fielding
Hills I think I've had yourGamay, your Viognier and then
this guy.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
So we're going to open something else.
So we're going to opensomething else.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
Yeah, Try to get a wine club out of this baby.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Thank you guys, so much for listening.
If you want to hear more fromtyler armor, um and their wines,
take a peek at the show notes.
In the description.
We'll have links to theirwebsite and their wine club and
their social media.
So go follow them um, supportthem.
They're amazing, they makeawesome wines and you will never
(54:26):
regret buying a bottle.
So yes, thank you, tyler, yeah,cheers thank you, tyler, that's
good not cheersing oh sorry you.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
Thank you.
bung pod.
Welcome back, wine wonder boy.
And we got jazzy jay.
Jazzy.
What is a bum?
The hole of the barrel iscalled a bung hole.
Inside the bung hole is calleda bum wine with mayhem.
That's what it's about.
All right, welcome back to thebung pod.
(00:21):
It's your boy, ian king, akawine wonder boy, and we have
jazzy jay in the building aswell.
Hello everybody.
Uh, whatever you're listeningthis, on whatever platform, uh,
please rate us.
Ideally, five stars would benice.
Um, just helps.
Uh, people notice us and ourpodcasts get discovered and more
people will listen to it.
(00:42):
Oh, I, I love that sound.
We have an awesome podcastepisode for you today.
I'm excited about this becauseI love his wines.
We have Tyler Armour here,winemaker and owner of Armour
Wines.
You got it.
Welcome, thank you.
Thank you, thanks for doingthis, man.
Yeah, I know, I wanted to dothis a long time ago and I'm so
(01:03):
glad that we got it figured out.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
Yeah, I feel like it's been a few years.
We've been trying to sit downand chat.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Yeah, I feel like since I moved to Woodinville I
was bummed, I was like man, Imight not get a chance, it might
not work, yeah it might notwork, but I'm glad we got it to
work.
We're here in his facilityright now.
If you're listening to this, um, it's an awesome little
facility.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Uh, how many cases you make again uh, we're doing
1100 cases, 1100 and gosh, Idon't know what.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
The square footage is small yeah, that's pretty tiny,
but I feel like I see yourwines like everywhere, so yeah,
we're getting them out there.
Yeah, it's awesome, it's abattle so what do we have here
today?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
uh, yeah, I popped the carbo barbo, the 2023 carbo
barbo, so nice, full carbonic.
Uh, barbera barbera nice it'sbeen a it's been a fun one I
love a good carbonic yeah, we,uh, we're all in on the carbonic
um.
Started with the gamay noirthat we make, and then it was
(02:05):
just like what else can Icarbonic?
And it's been a journey like um.
I think the barbaro was next,and then we do a more vedra as
well.
That's full carbonic um.
And then our red blend, le hushis half pinot, half syrah, and
the pinot is full carbonic.
Oh, that's fun.
Yeah, so thatrah and the Pinotis full of carbonic.
Speaker 3 (02:26):
Ooh that's fun.
Yeah, that's cool.
So do you want to explain thecarbonic process to our
listeners?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Yeah, let's get right into carbonic.
I love this.
Speaker 3 (02:32):
Yes, I'm here for it.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Yeah, carbonic is like a winemaker's dream in my
opinion, because you bring inthe whole cluster grapes and put
them in a tank or just leavethem in the, you know, the
harvest bin and basically sealthe bin up and I I push a little
bit of CO2 gas in just to liftout the oxygen, um, or the air,
(02:56):
Um, but other than that, youjust seal it up and let it chill
for two weeks.
So, like I said, winemakersdream, you bring it in and don't
touch it for two weeks, Tuck itin the corner.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Don't look at it.
Don't look at it and do allyour other stuff.
Speaker 2 (03:08):
But yeah, the carbonic process when you're
putting that CO2 in, it gets allthe oxygen out and in a
no-oxygen environment it goesthrough a special process where
it breaks down inside out,basically, and releases all
these fun flavors and aromas.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
What a beautiful color, too, too, you have on
here.
Yeah, so we have a kind of likea violet.
I would say like, yeah, like aviolet color on here.
Um, yeah, it's like red purpleoh yeah, medium opacity for sure
, but it's.
it's so interesting because thiswine drinks a lot lighter than
it looks, because when you lookat it you're like, okay, okay,
there's going to be.
You know it's going to be amedium-bodied wine with, you
know, some tannins in the back,but this is very, very plush.
(03:52):
You definitely get thatcarbonic pop that you get with
like a Beaujolais right, andthen Well, and I'm just a fan of
Barberas in general.
Speaker 3 (04:02):
And you don't really see them a lot in this area.
No, yeah and yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
I think the Barbera is like our last ripening fruit
of the year.
Like every year it's stressinducing because it's like
winter's coming and the Barberais still hanging.
So it tends to be a bigger winejust because it's hanging
longer.
But we have to let it hangbecause the acid's also
screaming high.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
Yeah, longer, but we have to let it hang because the
acid's also screaming high.
Yeah, um, I'm getting like awatermelon grape jolly rancher.
Speaker 3 (04:27):
Yeah, I got the watermelon too so nice yeah
perfect for a hot summer day.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
You can crush this.
I would crush this straight up.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, baby, I refer to all of our wines as porch
pounders there you go.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Hey, I love that's the kind of uh era I'm in right
now.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
Yeah, the porch pounders, yeah um, but yeah, I
think, since it's uh, you know,it's a little bit riper coming
off, like you do get like alittle bit more of a plushness
to it, but I think it does funlike crunchy tannins from the
carbonic and the.
Yeah, just like yeah, the popof the carbonic on the nose is
really fun.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
yeah, no, this is a very wine and I love that you
make the crunchy style.
Yes, awesome.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
What would your tasting notes be on it?
You've given a little, butlet's hear from the winemaker.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
This is newly bottled .
It is released, but newlybottled.
I haven't done my creativewriting yet and came up with my
tasting notes.
But, um, yeah, I think a lot ofwhat you guys are saying.
Like the hard candy I like, Ifeel like that across the board.
On the carbonics you get thatlike the jolly rancher, like the
um, the grape and thewatermelon, um, but then also
(05:40):
there's some like herbaceousnessto it and like earthiness.
I think Barbera tends to havelike that, just like meaty soil.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Italian dank cellar Totally yeah it does Totally.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
I mean which is fun?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
I love Barberas like Italian Barberas are beautiful,
but I love like what you didwith it is.
You know it's epic, like Iwould prefer.
I would drink this every singleday, you know.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
So where do you get most of your grapes from?
I see what it says, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:17):
So this Barbera's, uh , down the Wallach slope, um,
I'd say we get most of our fruitoff the Royal Slope, okay, but
I mean just by a little Like weget from all around the state,
really Okay.
So basically, just find growersthat we like to work with that
are doing, you know, goodgrowing that we don't have to,
you know, worry about them toomuch.
(06:38):
Yeah, yeah, so really likeWalla, walla, the Yakima Valley,
wallach Slope, royal Slope,ancient Lakes Our Morved comes
from the Ancient Lakes.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (06:50):
And what other wines are you making besides Barbera?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yes, okay, so a few.
So for our spring releases,which the Barbera is a spring
release for us, have ourChersiez, uh, which is our
Viognier.
Okay, um, say it one more time.
Yeah, exactly, chersiez, I wasjust talking with someone about
this the other day.
It's that's the green labelright there.
Um, we were talking about how alot of people have problems
(07:16):
pronouncing Viognier.
Like you get the Voigner.
Speaker 3 (07:21):
We have one where I work in every single time.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
It's very entertaining.
Speaker 2 (07:26):
And then, like I was joking, like I named the wine,
like something even harder topronounce than Viognier yeah.
In retrospect.
But yeah, Cherseas.
Speaker 3 (07:36):
And how'd you get that name?
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, exactly, I was reading some book about the
history of the Rhone Valley andthey used to call Viognier
Cherseas.
Oh, okay, In some little tinyvillage somewhere.
Yeah, um, so it's a synonym.
Um, that went out of date andwe thought it'd be fun to put it
on the wine bottle.
But yeah, it's a mouthful.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Yeah totally.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
That's cool, though.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
Um yeah, so Cherseyes , viognier, off the Royal Slope,
and then we do a rosé like afield blend, rosé out of an East
Lanache vineyard, and thenagain this is all spring release
.
The Carbo Barbo is a springrelease, and then our Jetem
Gamay Noir is a spring releaseas well.
(08:17):
Cool, yes.
And then fall releases we do.
Let's see what do we do.
We have the La Hush Red Blend,the only blend that we're
currently doing Pinot Syrah,three different Syrahs and then
a more Vedra.
Speaker 3 (08:35):
Okay, that's five.
Yeah, vedras are fun too.
Yeah, wow.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I love that.
That's been pretty consistent,like that lineup the last few
years.
We did do a Tempranillo thislast year.
That's in barrel currently ohfun.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
I like Tempranillos too.
Yeah, those are always a goodone, yeah, so why did you pick
those particular grapes?
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yes, we do all whole cluster.
Well, I guess for the reds wedo all whole cluster
fermentation.
So working with varieties, thatworks out and it makes sense,
whole cluster fermentation.
So working with varieties, thatthat works out, and it makes
sense.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
um, so started with syrahs, um, just because it's
pretty classic to have wholecluster syrahs, yeah, um did you
ever so with doing only wholecluster when you're early on in
the process of, I guess, whenyou were a little bit more green
, I, I guess as a winemaker, oryour label, did you ever run
(09:27):
into the issue with your winesbeing too stemmy or too green?
Speaker 2 (09:34):
No, not that I'm aware of.
Okay.
Speaker 1 (09:38):
So I've seen that a lot where, like people will you
know, like a Syrah maybe, orI've seen it in Grenache as well
, with people picking early andthen also doing whole cluster I
get like a lot of those kind ofpure zini green.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Yeah, you know I don't.
We have one.
We got Syrah from a new venuethis last harvest and it is on
the greener side, like probablythe greenest that we've made,
and I'm thinking that's probablylike greenest that we've made.
Yeah, and I'm thinking that'sprobably like the first time
I've kind of ran into it, but Idon't know.
It's just um, I look a lot atthe stems I guess, Um, I know
(10:15):
people have said like, chew onthe stems and see what that
tastes like.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
Um, I don't chew on the stems but I look at the
stems and try and not pick whenthey're ferociously green and
tannin bombs.
Speaker 2 (10:31):
Yeah, it's a balancing act to make sure
things are right, but not tooright.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
Yeah, I know Brandon Moss from Gramercy because they
are known for picking reallyearly and there are some of the
first ones out there, usuallyespecially in the red willow
vineyard, and he was saying,like you don't cause they do a
lot of whole cluster.
And he was saying you don'treally need the stems to be
completely lignified in order todo a whole cluster.
I think that is a misconceptionor an assumption that people
(11:00):
make.
Speaker 2 (11:01):
If you just chew on the stems and then if they're a
little sweet, then you can usethem for their strong tannins.
Maybe I need to start chewingon, I don't know yeah it sounds.
It seems like you're doing agreat job so far.
So I don't know, yeah, no, it'suh, yeah, so picking varieties,
kind of based off of that, um,you know stuff that we can do
whole cluster um, and thenvarieties that I just like to
(11:23):
drink too.
I guess guess yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:24):
Like.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
Gamay Noir Like we drink a ton of Beaujolais at
home.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
Oh, yes, I love it.
We have to hang out, man.
Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 2 (11:32):
I love like slightly chilled like red wines.
Yeah, yes, A lot of timespeople serve reds way too warm
around here.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Yeah, way too warm, especially then it's 110 out.
Yeah, and I still want that redwine yeah, but not the same
temperature as the outside world?
Speaker 1 (11:51):
yeah, so what is your wine club like, uh?
Speaker 2 (11:54):
like the release yeah , we've got a wine club.
Um, we focus a lot on wholesale, like distribution and stuff,
um, and we don't have a tastingroom, so a wine club is, I think
, maybe a little bit of achallenge, like we don't have a
you know a spot for them to hangout, um.
But we do release releaseparties in the spring and the
(12:15):
fall.
Speaker 1 (12:15):
Yeah, you do special events here in your facility in
the facility.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, um.
So it's a smaller wine club butwe we try and promote it yeah.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
So do you promote it mostly like word of mouth and
then they can sign up online, oris it?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
in person Mostly in person, okay, because I don't
even think it's on the website.
Okay, we're dropping the ballon that one.
My wife's going to hear thisand say I told you so.
Um, yeah, we, uh, we shouldprobably focus on wine club more
, because it's great like wehave.
Um, it's easy money yeah, and Imean yeah loyal customers yeah,
(12:54):
they're like great people, likethey're all the people that
really want to sit there andlike hang out with you and drink
your wine, and yeah, yeah umsupport.
It's maybe like a 30 to 40people in the club currently.
Speaker 3 (13:04):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:05):
Um, but yeah no.
Speaker 3 (13:07):
And is it like a three bottle club, six bottle?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Yeah, uh, six bottle club.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
So twice a year, so in the spring, six bottles six
bottles.
So try and make it doable Umfor everybody.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, Imean, if you want to like do a
full case in the spring and thefall, I'll sign you up for that.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah, totally have you ever um done like do you
have a lot of wine club memberson the West side and stuff where
?
You could do like West sidepickups.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Uh, we just have one member on the West side.
Okay, Um, and we shipped to herUm.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
So, because you do wholesale, where can we find
your wines?
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I should have had a cheat sheet in front of me here.
Yeah, so over in Seattle we'rewith Venea Imports currently
Okay, and they get the wine fromlike Bellingham down to Olympia
on the west side, okay, awesome.
And they're just doing the westside.
For us we kind of handleeastern Washington.
Yeah, for us we kind of handleeastern washington, yeah, um.
(14:17):
but yeah, over on the west side,um, we're at quite a few of the
sea creatures, restaurants,yeah, yeah, um, I'm trying to
think of the names off the topof my head um, the one in the
the dome.
What is the?
The dome?
The bio dome, the um?
Speaker 1 (14:31):
Oh, oh, uh, yeah, I forgot yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Uh, wilmots goes there, we go.
Yeah, um, but that doesn't.
Yeah, it's in the sphere orsomething.
Speaker 1 (14:41):
Anyways, that's downtown, right, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Yeah, yeah, um Atoma is a great restaurant.
Um up in, I think, wallingfordum great people and like they
moved through a decent amount ofour wine.
There Are you guys?
Speaker 1 (14:55):
at Live Bud at all.
Not that I'm aware of that's aheavy restaurant group and
they're like a vegan vegetariankind of restaurant.
We probably eat this up, andthey also are.
Yeah, they have a lot ofnatural wine selections.
Speaker 2 (15:12):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (15:12):
And, yeah, I feel like you'd fit in really well
there yeah, we I'll give thewine buyer a call there you go
we had him on the podcast once.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
Okay, yeah for purple chris horn okay, really awesome
guy, yeah, yeah I've never metchris, but he's a great dude.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
The name he's a wine buyer for purple cafe and
everyone, all the restaurantsfor heavy restaurant groups.
Speaker 2 (15:32):
So so yeah, yeah, yeah, we.
I was telling you earlier thatwe just started working with
Venea, so I kind of knew wherethe wines were a month or two
ago, but now it's they'refurther and farther.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
Yeah, yeah, totally.
Yeah so where did you like?
How'd you get into thewinemaking?
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I went to school for winemaking.
I was down at WSU as well GoCougs, yeah right go Cougs.
Both my wife and I are Cougs.
We were in Pullman and I was, Ithink, one of the last classes
where they let you do the V&Eprogram out of Pullman before
they switched it all down to theTri-Cities.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Okay, gotcha and E program out of Pullman before
they switched it all down to theTri-Cities.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Okay, gotcha Graduated in 2010 down there.
Fun.
Yeah, it was food science.
Cool Down there.
I guess I went from generalstudies and then food science
because I started working at thecreamery making the cougar gold
cheese.
Speaker 3 (16:27):
Oh cool, I noticed the cougar gold over there.
Yeah, the can?
Speaker 2 (16:31):
That's a dog water bowl, so exactly.
Um, yeah, I made cheese andstudied cheese making for a few
years and then took were youwanting to be a cheese monger?
Uh, it was fun I mean.
I've like worked at a number ofbakeries and like I always
ferment stuff Like something'salways fermented on the counter,
(16:51):
and so cheese was like, yeah,ferment stuff like something's
always fermented on the counter,yeah.
And so cheese was like, yeah,this, this could be a career, um
.
And then took like an electivecourse in wine, um, and it was
like, whoa, I need to switch.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Like is this the one where they like let you drink in
class?
Yeah, oh yeah, oh god, that wassuch a good class.
Yeah, it was like a no-brainer.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
I went like straight to the counselor or whatever.
I was like I need to switch.
Uh, and luckily it was an easyswitch because food science.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Yeah, you probably had most of the classes, yeah,
um yeah, I was over warm milk,it was it was a time of my life.
Yeah, I remember getting inthat class and was just hyped,
yep, um, and then you know, goto the Coug right after.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yep.
Cause might as well if you'regoing to start early, keep going
, Um I like Valhalla.
Speaker 3 (17:40):
Yeah, 80th night of Valhalla, it was a good time.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
Um, yeah, so studied at WSU, graduated in 2010.
Um, I was assistant winemakerfor Mary Sellers in Pullman at
the time.
Speaker 3 (17:54):
Patrick's amazing.
Yeah, I love both of them, so Iworked with Banyans.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Oh, okay, yeah, Golf course out there.
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, so I was one of their catering managers the
whole time I was at WSU andobviously we did a lot of events
with Patrick and they are justphenomenal people.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Yeah, I learned a lot of good things from Patrick,
including how to properly drinkthere you go, yes, yes,
Important parts yes.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
I told you this story .
I went to Pullman, for those ofyou.
So we have listeners outside ofWashington State that don't
know what Pullman is.
That is where Washington StateUniversity is.
They're the rival to Universityof Washington Hus.
That don't know what Pullman is?
Um, that is where Washingtonstate university is.
They're the rival to uh,university of Washington Huskies
.
Uh, in Seattle.
Um, it's on the Eastern side ofthe state, but I went there for
the side of the state Um.
(18:44):
I went there for a homecominggame.
My girlfriend she's a Coug,she's like a legacy sorority uh
coug over there, and so I wentwith her and I was a little sick
, like I had a cold, just it'sjust like my sinuses were
stuffed up, yeah, and I was likedon't let that slow you down.
Yeah, and I was like well, I, Idon't want to talk to a true
coug yeah, yeah I'm not a truecoug I went, uh, for viticulture
(19:06):
online, um, but I've alwaysbeen a, uh, a coug growing up,
um in general, so I've alwayswrapped the gear and cheered for
them, um.
But anyways, I didn't want todrink beer because I was
thinking, okay, I'm gonna be onmy coors light game the whole
day.
You know, I can drink coorslights all day and I'm good, um,
but I was like a little stuffedup and I was like, well, beer
(19:28):
is gonna stuff me up more.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
I don't want that and I don't want to talk to people
normally stuff you up no okay,um, not necessarily, but like
when I'm sick I just, I justfeel it a lot and I was like you
know what clears my sinuses?
Speaker 1 (19:41):
it's ginger beer and whiskey, and so I'm gonna do
whiskey gingers the whole time.
But the thing is I was drinkingthem light, course lights and I
just man, it was rough.
We went to the game.
I fell asleep in the secondquarter and I woke back up like
halfway through the secondquarter, went to Valhalla, had
(20:03):
some uh, some of their wingswhich is needed, definitely
needed and then some courselights and I was like I am going
to pass out, and so I was liketrying to hobble my way back to
where we're staying and it wasrough.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
It was almost sums up like the six years or whatever
that I was in Pullman.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
So yeah, there is times, especially when you like
if you could go to the dunesprior to a game.
You're just hammered before andyou're just like, yeah, no, I'm
great.
And I think one time I tried tosneak like a fifth of fireball
in.
I'm like how stupid are youlike?
Oh yeah, that really was gonnasneak in classic yeah good times
(20:45):
over there yeah but patrick,back to that.
Speaker 2 (20:48):
Yeah, it's a great person, yeah so, yeah, I was at
mary's cellar for quite a fewyears, which was great, I mean
because a lot of of the otherV&E kids, you know, didn't get
that hands-on experience.
Because, yeah, wsu is very likeit's like books, winemaking,
like a lot of the deep sciencebehind winemaking, so it was
(21:09):
good to have like the hands-onand practical side of it.
Speaker 3 (21:12):
I'm honestly surprised there's not at least
one or two more wineries overthere.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
I know that I'm aware of at least.
I mean, there's a few I feellike.
But yeah, I mean with how manylike people come into town and
like Mom's weekend.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
Well, I guess it's parents weekend now.
But for those weekends that waslike always a stop for us.
Oh yeah, yeah For thoseweekends.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
That was always a stop for us.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Oh, yeah, yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (21:35):
And then.
So you went to Chelan afterthat.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
No, so right after WSU, I graduated in December of
2010.
Speaker 3 (21:45):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (21:45):
So January of 2011, went down to Australia.
Speaker 1 (21:48):
Oh fun, what part.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Western Australia down in Margaret River.
Oh cool yeah.
Oh, that's fun, that's awesome.
So epic beaches.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
So we're down there for six months making wine and
hanging out on the beach.
Six months yeah, that's a while.
Yeah, that's a long while.
Yeah.
Six-month visa we used everyday of the six-month visa.
Speaker 1 (22:09):
I was supposed to go to Tasmania and make a Pinot
Noir Chardonnay and sometraditional method, you know,
sparkling, and then COVIDhappened.
Speaker 2 (22:21):
Oh, bummer, yeah, you got to get down there if you
can.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Yeah, I was going to go there for a harvest, but yeah
, I definitely want to go downthere at some point.
But yeah, I love, I love thatarea.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
It's so cool.
Yeah, I was at.
It was at a bigger facility, godown there at some point.
But yeah, I love um, I lovethat area.
Yeah, it's so cool.
Um, yeah, I was it, it was at abigger facility.
So I got to experience, like mytank farm, winemaking which,
yeah, definitely helped steerhow I want to make wine, a bit
like not in a tank farm yeah sounderstandable I was gonna ask
you so, coming from wazoo andtheir program, how did you get
(22:56):
into making um, I'm gonna saylow intervention?
Speaker 1 (22:59):
wines uh, because I don't like the natural term yeah
, unless kind of natural yeahbecause, as a bad connotation,
because there's so many naturalwines out there with a bunch of
wine faults and they're justgross and I usually call them
natty wines.
Yeah, when they're like thatbunch of wine faults and they're
just gross and I usually callthem natty wines yeah when
they're like that, and then lowintervention when they're high
quality, like yours, with nowine faults and taste beautiful.
(23:21):
Um, yeah, yeah, I mean, you knowyou.
Uh, you was it.
Walk the walk, you know awesomeyeah so you know you can say a
lot of things, but you show itand that's yeah, that's
important and I love what you do.
So how did you get into makingthis style of wine?
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Yeah.
So I think, kind of going backto the tank farm and just other
wineries I've worked for, justseeing how wine can be made with
all of the junk that can beadded and all the manipulation
and things taken away and thingsadded, and yeah, it's just not.
It's like, wow, that's horrible, like I don't.
(23:59):
If I make wine ever, I don'twant to do that.
Yeah, um, and I think with thatand then just wines that I was
tending to like be drinking werejust kind of low intervention
wines and I think just thecommon combination of those two
is like yeah, how'd you startlike drinking those styles of
wines?
(24:20):
um, yeah, that's a good question, um, working at.
So, after australia went towoodenville, um, I worked a
harvest for DiStefano Wineryjust a harvest gig.
And then I was at a placecalled Barron's it was Barron's
5 when I started but then justbecame Barron's Lots of big cabs
(24:44):
and stuff.
There was a guy that workedthere that had a great knowledge
in wine and shared lots of goodwines and I feel like they
tended to lean towards.
That's where I feel like I raninto Beaujolais for the first
time.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
It was like oh man, Okay yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
This is changing my life, yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:02):
So what would you?
Because I feel like a lot ofpeople, especially in Washington
, really don't drink Beaujolais.
Speaker 2 (25:11):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (25:12):
So at least in our region yes they definitely don't
.
Um, how would you explain it tosomeone that you know they see
this on a menu?
Speaker 2 (25:25):
yeah like why they should pick that over whatever
else yeah, well, I guess, yeah,like the style of beaujolais, at
least in my mind, is like fruitforward, like yep, and that's
like when, like when we'remaking wines like I want to make
wines like the first thing yousmell or taste is like the fruit
, like I don't want it to becovered up with too much oak or
(25:47):
um, um, yeah, I want it to belike bright and fresh and like
those and again, like thosecrunchy tannins like, um, like
this isn't like big syrupy winethat we're that I'm trying to
make.
So, um, yeah, yeah, just lightand fresh, acid driven.
Um, good with food is important.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I think it's great with food.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
We, uh, do a lot of cooking at home and it's
important that the wines canhandle the food and the food,
the wine.
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
I think this goes really well with like.
I mean a lot of people.
Usually they tend to make morelike fish or poultry at home a
lot, and I feel like this reallygoes well with any of those.
Like this could be a killerThanksgiving wine.
This goes well with like likethis could be a killer
thanksgiving wine.
This goes well with like uh wego about barbecue.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
I mean, like just about to say, the summer
barbecue it can reallyabsolutely stand up to it, for
sure.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yeah, yeah, this one's very refreshing, and just
I mean this was definitely a ohsure, forget about man, let's go
.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
This is definitely a great one to chill for, like
that summer on the porch, yeah,enjoying an evening.
Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah, I'm a big fan of like with our rosé and white,
like you know, down in the ice.
But then a lot of our reds,like just sitting up on top of
the ice is like perfect, becausethey get a little bit of that
chill.
Speaker 1 (27:10):
But not too much.
Yeah, yeah, you can still tasteall the profiles in it, but
it's a little chilled down.
Speaker 3 (27:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:17):
You did a pop-up uh tasting at Norwood and Wenatchee
.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Yeah, we do those somewhat frequently yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
And you're just down the road.
Essentially, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Kind of in town here yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
When it across town, I guess across town, very small
town, but yeah, across the smallcity of wenatchee.
Um, I was really, I was tryingreally hard to be there for it.
Yeah, um, I was there at, uh,seth kitsky's um because I went
to his because, like we've nevermet in person and I just wanted
to chat with him because we'vebeen kind of dming here and
there um back and forth for afew years and I was like, well,
he's coming to wenatchee and I Iwas living in Chelan at the
time, so I was like I'll comedown for that and I was really
(27:56):
trying hard to come to yours,but I was also working as a
cellar master, yeah, and the daywent long.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
And I was like super, super bummed because I was
trying to make it down in time,but I couldn't.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
There will be more pop-ups.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
I'm glad, I'm glad and I'll be there for him Cause
I haven't really tried a lot ofyour wines.
I mean, I've had your Gamaycause they have Gamay at Sorrel
on the list there, which isawesome.
They do all Washington winesfor their whole restaurant but
I've never tried this one andI've.
I've looked at your website abunch of times.
I'm like, okay, I'm going tosee what they got.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
They had a wine club on that website.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, oh geez Gosh.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
At some point I'll figure out a way to sign up for
it.
Cause this is like my, my styleof wine.
Speaker 2 (28:44):
So, uh, yeah, yeah, so the um, yeah, the Carbo Barbo
has been a real fun one.
I think people like just sayingCarbo Barbo too.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
Carbo Barbo is a great name for this.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Yeah, it was definitely like a dad joke
sitting around the table LikeCarbonic Barbera, Carbo Barbo.
The kids laughed and I was likeyes.
Speaker 3 (29:06):
Take it.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
We're doing that.
Speaker 2 (29:08):
Now we're, yeah, naming wines.
Dad jokes.
Speaker 1 (29:10):
Yeah, I also love your aesthetic, like on your
labels um I was gonna ask youabout the design.
Speaker 3 (29:16):
Looks great the design.
Yeah, I feel like there was achildren influencer uh no, we,
we paid uh a professionaldesigner to help us do it.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yeah, oh no, yeah, the children drawing drawings up
around the winery.
Yes, of the wine bottles whichI'm sure we're gonna get called
into school sometime whenthey're drawing wine or
something.
I'm sure we'll get in troublefor that down the road.
Yeah, a friend of a friendthat's a graphic designer for a
brewery up in Canada, oh, okaycool.
(29:47):
We worked with him and ourHeliotrope Syrah, which it's not
in this room, we can't see it.
Um, our heliotrope Syrah, whichit's not in this room, we can't
see it.
It's a pink label like pink andpurple, cool, that was the
first one, um, and we wanted,like a design that we could just
kind of change the colors onand like evolve wine to wine.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
Um, but like, even if , like, like on the Carbo Barbo,
here it doesn't, but you stillkind of you can recognize it's a
logo that it's an armor wine.
So yeah, and it's been fun likefinding color combinations for
the different wines and yeah,that's really fun and people are
like constantly asking likewhat is it Like, what is the
(30:26):
design?
Because it's kind of like abumpy rainbow, yeah.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Maybe or like a flower kind of.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
Yeah, so I think someone said a bumpy rainbow of.
Yeah, so I think someone said abumpy rainbow, and so we made
our rosea I didn't notice thebumpy rainbow over there yeah,
and then I just heard someonethought they saw this on the
shelf and they thought it was asheep okay okay yeah, I could
see the sheep.
I can see the wool yeah soapparently we got sheep wine or
(30:52):
something.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
I don't know.
Okay, yeah, yeah.
So for the Helio.
You took me through like alittle tour before this episode
and I saw the Helio was labeledon the sandstone jar.
It is indeed, yeah.
So take me through the processof why a sandstone jar.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Yeah, so again, like all of our reds Thank you, all
our reds, whole cluster and allneutral French oak.
So again, just trying to makesure we're seeing fruit first,
not covering it up with too muchnew oak and stuff.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
So you don't do any new French oak.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
We don't do any new oak at all.
No, maybe eventually like verysmall amounts here and there.
But it's expensive too, andwe're a startup winery.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
so it is and I've never.
I mean.
I understand the reason, butwhen I was making wine and my, I
was planning my own label atone point and I was like I'm not
gonna use french oak like newoak for anything like there's no
point because I don't like theyou know aggressive clove
(32:05):
vanilla flavor, usually, unlessit needs it, with like a I don't
know like a nebbiolo or like a,you know, like a big cab or
something, but that's notsomething that I would make
personally, um, and so I.
it's funny because I did like awhole business plan and I had
like all the great varietieslined up and a lot of them are
similar to what you're doing.
(32:25):
But, like um, it's really coolto see that because I've, you
know, think that is missing alot in Washington State,
especially Because I wasinspired by Sonoma and they're
doing like Trousseau Noir,trousseau Gris and Gamay and a
bunch of fun stuff.
Speaker 2 (32:42):
And in like vessels that aren't offering a bunch of
oak flavor, exactly.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
More fresh style, and that's something that I think
is beautiful and something I candrink every single day.
I could probably drink thiswhole bottle by myself.
To be honest, let's do it.
That's something that I thinkis beautiful and something I can
drink every single day.
Like I could probably drinkthis whole bottle by myself.
Yep, to be honest, let's do it.
Let's do it.
We're surrounded by walls andeconomics we can just keep going
and like economics too.
It's like, okay, I'm not payinglike up to what 1500, yeah, a
(33:07):
barrel for french new french oak, or up to like 900 a barrel for
new French oak, or up to like$900 a barrel for new American.
I might like I'll go to anotherwinery, buy their used oak for
like 80 bucks to a hundred bucksor something like that.
And then it just economics andalso my personal profile.
(33:28):
You know my palate, it justthis synced up.
You know, I'm just like thatjust makes you know my palate.
It just just synced up.
Speaker 3 (33:33):
You know, I'm just like that, just makes you know
and I feel like, with thebeaujolais style, like how you
initially said, fruit forwardand once you bring in that new
french oak, you're just pullingthat away yep, covering it up,
yeah, you're getting those oakyflavors and yeah, I feel like
it's not always necessary yeah,I want to see what the fruit can
(33:56):
do.
Speaker 2 (33:56):
A small winery too, like all of our lots are very
small.
So like one barrel in, like alot, is, you know, gonna end up
being like 25 of the finalvolume, or yeah, it's not like
if.
If we were a bigger winery,yeah, you could maybe sneak in
some new French oak.
That wouldn't, you know, wouldbe a lower percentage.
Yeah, yeah.
(34:18):
We're good with the neutral oakfor now.
But, yeah, back to thesandstone tank, just looking for
other vessels that offered that.
You know, a storage vesselthat's not imparting, you know,
flavors and tannins and aromas.
So yeah, um, yeah, and thesandstone's been fantastic, um
(34:38):
is this your first vintage withit uh no, the uh previous
vintage was the first.
So we have um our viognier, sowe ferment our viognier in there
, um, and then pull it out afterit's done fermenting and then
age our heliotrope Syrah for 10months.
Fun, and it's just a portion ofthe final blend, so it ends up
(34:59):
being like a third sandstone,third normal barrels and then a
third punchins, so big barrels.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
Okay, cool, yeah, yeah, big punchins.
I didn't see a punchin backthere, I just miss it.
They're right here next to you.
Speaker 2 (35:13):
Oh, hey, look at that .
What's up, guys Big?
Speaker 1 (35:16):
punch-ins.
Speaker 2 (35:17):
Yeah, and sandstone.
We were talking earlier how Ithink I like it better than
concrete Concrete's kind offussy.
You have to be careful cleaningit and you have to coat the
inside with the tar crystals,vassic, the inside with the tar
crystals, yeah, um, yeah, andthe sandstone's like it's a
(35:38):
fired sandstone, so it's gonethrough a kiln and it's like
pretty indestructible.
Yeah, so, but it like, fromwhat I've been told, like it
breathes very similar to barrels, um, where concrete can be a
bit tighter okay, I waswondering about.
Clay is like a bit looser um,the sandstone is apparently
right along the lines of thebarrel.
Speaker 1 (35:55):
Oh, really yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:56):
I've heard that before Okay, cool, so it's my
jam, basically, yeah, totally.
Speaker 3 (36:01):
I love that.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
And yeah, I think we'll probably get more for sure
and maybe bigger ones.
But, again, they're expensive.
Speaker 1 (36:09):
They are expensive.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
They are very expensive.
So are you from the Wenatcheearea originally.
Speaker 2 (36:16):
Yeah, Born and raised in Wenatchee both my wife and I
.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
Okay, wow, did you guys know each other before WSU?
Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yep High school.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Aw, high school sweetheart.
That's cute.
I love that.
That's adorable.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
Yeah, both went to WSU.
She's international businessand German.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
Oh wow, okay, look at that.
Speaker 2 (36:36):
That's fun, the business helps.
Yeah, we're not using theGerman a whole lot currently.
Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, you're not making Rieslings.
No, I know I might make aRiesling this year.
Or Müller-Turgau, yeah yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:51):
Yeah, that would be fun.
Well, and how often does she?
Is she very?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
involved with the winemaking and everything.
Uh, winemaking during harvestand bottling, yes, absolutely.
Um, the rest of the year, sheleaves it up to me.
Um, yeah but, like she does alot of the business side of it
okay um, I would be lost withouther on that Um which is it's
kind of like our relationship.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:17):
Me and Jasmine.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
So she's like more like on the business side, and
I'm I don't know, yeah, yeah.
I'm more of the like theproduction production person.
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely yeah, yeah definitely
.
Speaker 1 (37:32):
I have a lot of things to do.
Yeah, this isn't my job, whichI at some point.
That'd be cool.
Yeah, we'll get there one day,baby step you know, just drink
for a living and interviewpeople.
Doesn't sound like a bad day.
It's pretty great.
No, not at all.
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
And I like talking about wine, so it's fun.
You get to meet a reallyawesome community.
Speaker 1 (37:54):
Yeah, so do you have any issues with like, because
you do native fermentationsun-fined, unfiltered, yep.
Do you have any issues withnative fermentations at all?
Do you find anything gettingstuck ever?
Speaker 2 (38:10):
Fortunately haven't had any like epic stucks.
Yeah, um, that are 2022.
Carbo barbo, we're drinking the23 currently.
Um, stopped like the very end,with just a little bit of sugar
in it which, like if we openedto 22 right now, it would.
It would taste sweeter, forsure.
(38:30):
Yeah, um, but still like peoplewere loving it like crazy.
Speaker 1 (38:35):
But no, I've been very fortunate that, yeah, so
you've never had to like try andrestart something?
No, Because I wonder what thelow intervention process would
be to restart something BecauseI've restarted.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (38:48):
One before and it was a pain in the ass.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
With commercial yeast or no?
Speaker 1 (38:53):
Yes, with commercial yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:55):
Because I've done that before for other wineries
too, and it's a process, butyou're just adding so much shit
to the wine to clean it up.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Yeah, it's not even wine, at that point almost.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
I mean it's wine, Not that you really have to
categorically.
Speaker 3 (39:09):
Not that you have to put anything really on these
labels.
Speaker 2 (39:13):
Yeah, no labels.
Speaker 1 (39:14):
but yeah, no, I've been lucky that if galloping can
say their wine, then that'swine too.
It's great.
Um, they don't listen to thepodcast, which I actually don't
even know, but they might um,yeah, what were we saying?
Speaker 2 (39:31):
oh, just restarting, like any stuck fermentation, oh
yeah, so just, yeah, going backto like finding like growers
that I really like working with,that do a really good job, that
have really clean fruit, umbecause, like, why?
Speaker 1 (39:45):
why would a uh ferment get stuck?
I mean, there's a lot ofdifferent things in my head, but
you just talked about thegrowers, so okay, could it come
from also the vineyard?
Oh yeah.
Speaker 2 (39:56):
Like, if you've got pretty destroyed gross fruit,
it's going to have a bunch ofother non-yeast microorganisms
on it that are going to competeand eventually maybe knock out
your yeast populations, right.
Eventually, you know, maybeknock out your yeast populations
, right.
Um.
And then there's certainvineyards out there that like,
(40:19):
just don't carry yeast loads onthem, um, so you bring it into
the winery and it's just, itmight start a little bit from
like house yeast that's floatingaround, but it's not going to
be strong enough to fully kickit off so um.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
so I have an uncomfortable question, a little
bit.
Speaker 2 (40:32):
Here it is.
Let me take a sip of wine.
Speaker 1 (40:39):
So, I mean, I've talked with a lot of people, a
lot of wine professionals thathave been in the business for a
long time, and there's thisongoing debate between native
yeast and a lot of theconventional.
It seems like the more theconventional um winemakers and
(40:59):
growers are saying well, it'snot necessarily native yeast,
it's just like whatever is themost dominant yeast that's
floating around in your wine,that's starting it yeah um, what
is your opinion on that?
like I, I tried to kind ofcombat it because in Santa
Barbara that's where my winejourney began and all the people
(41:19):
that I'm friends with downthere they do a lot of native
ferments, and one of them PiedraSossi, sossi, mormon and Raj
Par they started their own yeastculture within that specific
vineyard.
Yeah, um, and they do a pied decouve, or pied de couve, uh, to
start their ferments a lot oftimes, and also witcraft the
(41:41):
same kind of thing.
Speaker 2 (41:42):
Yep, um, I've done a pied de couve before you do it's
a process um yeah I don't do itanymore.
I think it's uh yeah,unnecessary or yeah, it's just.
Uh, it's a lot of work and Ifeel like it.
It didn't work out for me likeI feel, like my, ferments are
kicking off just fine bythemselves.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
Yeah, yeah, so did you do that because you wanted
to try something, or becausewanted to try.
Okay, science shit basicallyyeah, play around, this is fun
like, yeah, yeah, see what youcould do, yeah yeah, but like
what do you think is it?
Speaker 1 (42:14):
do you think it think it is?
Whatever the most dominantyeast in your cellar is, that's
starting the native ferment.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Yeah, for sure that plays a huge role, like what's
floating around your cellar, Ithink, for us in this space.
We've never had commercialyeast in here before and it's
never been a winery previous tous so there shouldn't be any
like commercial yeast yeah umstrains floating around um but
(42:41):
then are you worried aboutbertanomyces, also known as
brett, while you strain, thosepeople.
um yeah, I mean, like there'sbrett that comes in on the
grapes.
I guess I'm not super worriedabout it.
Maybe I should be, but I think,for the most part, the grapes
(43:01):
that we bring in, you know, tendto be pretty clean.
I think the majority of themicroorganisms are Saccharomyces
, and it finishes fermentationfor us.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
So you haven't had a problem with bread or anything
like that.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Not a huge problem, I don't think.
I think there's probably littlebits here and there, but not
over the top.
And to be completely excuse me,to be completely honest, I'm
like very sensitive notsensitive to Brett for some
reason, like like other peoplethat are like holy shit, this is
(43:40):
like a Brett bomb.
Yeah, like I, it doesn't hit meas bad.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
So yeah, when I think of Brett is there is there
Brett in this carbo barbo?
Is that what you're saying?
There's no, brett.
Is that the uncomfortableconversation we're having?
No, for those of you listening,every wine I've had from Armour
Wines has been very clean asfar as wine faults are concerned
, also very beautiful andcomplex in flavor profile.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
So you're good on all of us.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (44:14):
Which is why this podcast is happening, because if
I tasted your wines and Ithought they weren't good, I
wouldn't do this podcast withyou.
It's like I'm here because I'ma fan, so I don't do any
podcasts.
Speaker 3 (44:29):
We should do that one time, just give one person.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
We just don't like, just don't do any podcasts.
If I'm not, we should do thatone time, just give one person
we just don't like.
Just don't like, yeah, justlike, don't tell them that,
obviously, but and I think, likeSuper uncomfortable, I don't
want to be fake.
I hate being fake.
Speaker 3 (44:41):
It's the worst thing.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
I never said we'd have to be fake.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
I would just tell them that their line sucks.
Can you do better?
Speaker 2 (44:47):
please my background.
Going back to the cheese makingyeah, you have to be super
clean to make cheese or elsepeople die.
Yeah, so I think I wasfortunate to start my food
processing journey in a cheesemaking facility.
Speaker 3 (45:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
Because I'm over the top clean freak when it comes
time for harvest.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
And well, just cleaning everything um, which I
think helps, especially makinglow intervention wines, like you
know, to not have um that likedirty production room smell, and
yes, I think I I mean, I'vebeen to a couple handful of
wineries that they are just notorganized or not clean, and you
(45:36):
know for me to look at that andsay, oh great, I'm drinking your
wine and this is what yourproduction facility looks like.
Yeah, I think, and you knowit's definitely a practice that
people it's an at-home practiceand it's a work practice and I
think it is so important,especially for the winemakers,
(45:59):
to take it more seriously thansome do.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Yeah, yeah, because if you have like a dirty
production room, I feel like youcould smell in the glass.
Speaker 3 (46:07):
Yes, I feel like you could smell it in the glass, yes
, and you can have all the moneyin the world, but just because
you have all the money doesn'tmean your wine's going to be
clean if you're not cleaning upafter your production is filled.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
I've seen, because some people make the excuse like
, oh, we have a really smallspace.
Speaker 3 (46:27):
It doesn't matter but .
Speaker 1 (46:27):
I've seen these smallest spaces.
For example, here Be completelyorganized and clean like yours
and like uh tanya from s yeah,we were just talking about that
off off air and, um, you knowlike she has a little garage yep
, you know, in her house andthat she makes beautiful wines
(46:47):
yeah, very clean, beautiful,yeah, and beautiful wines, yeah.
And so do you.
And it's like you know, youdon't necessarily have to have
like all the bells and whistlesand a huge space.
You just have to be organizedand clean and figure it out for
yourself.
Speaker 3 (47:00):
Yeah, when you even worked I think it was the
Carhartts you said that they hadum like tools for inside and
for outside.
Yeah, so it's not alwaysnecessary, but you know, it's
the importance of bringingwhatever's outside inside and
vice versa.
Speaker 1 (47:20):
The car hearts are, in my opinion, known in my mind
for going above and beyond andbeing completely above approach
with like everything you know,um, like they go out of their
way to make, with likeeverything you know, um, like
they go out of their way to makesure, like everything is dialed
in, everything's thoughtthrough to the tea, and so like
(47:40):
they also do, uh, lowintervention wines there as well
, they do a mix, they do someconventional uh and they do
commercial yeast, and then theyalso do a lot of native stuff,
and so it really depends,because they have two labels.
And one thing that Chase Carhartwas telling me and he was on
the pod in episode 10 or 12 orsomething like that, but when I
(48:03):
worked there it was like theseare inside tools only, like
squeegees, you know, brooms orwhatever it is.
These are inside tools only andthese are outside tools only,
like squeegees, you know, broomsor whatever it is.
These are inside tools only andthese are outside tools only.
So for cleaning up, the crushpad is a different tool that you
have to grab.
Oh yeah, then the inside tools,but you never want to mix them.
You'll get yelled at I've triednot to.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Yeah, I mean, I don't think I'm a yeller.
I talk strongly to a lot ofinterns about.
Let's not put that on theground, let's lean that up.
It's just small things.
I think that make a differencewhen it all adds up.
Speaker 1 (48:41):
So you have interns that work with you.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
No, like previous winemaking, oh, previous
winemaking, gotcha.
I have three children that areinterns For life.
Speaker 3 (48:52):
They don't have a choice.
Speaker 1 (48:54):
Don't have a choice in that room.
Speaker 3 (48:56):
Yeah, but that's also just a great thing to teach
those kids from the get-go, Imean, especially with this new
day and age of children comingout.
They probably could use thatlesson.
Speaker 2 (49:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:11):
No offense to the younger generations listening
but, it is concerning some days.
Speaker 1 (49:18):
You guys need to work .
Oh my gosh, I went to.
Speaker 3 (49:22):
this is totally off subject, but I went to a coffee
shop in Chelan the other day andthe balls on them.
I got my like the card readerback and it was 20, 30, 40, or
50% tip.
What?
And I was like you're high.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
For a coffee shop.
Speaker 3 (49:36):
And they're like maybe in high school, and I'm
like 50% 50% for a coffee shopDrive and it was drive-thru only
.
Speaker 2 (49:45):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (49:46):
And I was like you literally just heated up a
burrito in a microwave and mademe a Red Bull with coconut milk
in it Like you literally justwent like this Servers that find
any restaurants don't get 50%.
No, when they actually busttheir butts yeah where they
actually do a lot of things.
Speaker 1 (50:02):
But I'm like.
Speaker 3 (50:03):
Looking at this little high schooler and was
like you're not even giving mean option below 20%.
It's wild.
She's trying to save up forairpods or something like that,
yeah, probably I was just like,oh my gosh, and like people are
getting so like sick of tippingand I think, well, and that just
(50:23):
like proves, well, everyone'skind of kind of constrained
right now with the economy rightnow.
Speaker 1 (50:28):
It's kind of crazy.
That's why we see a lot of wine, wine sales a decline yeah,
huge decline, just kind of itsucks, but yeah but yeah, the
tipping we've been trying tocombat that, you know.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
Yeah, I mean I, I also got, uh, I was getting my
air filters clean on my furnaceand stuff and they're like do
you want to tip?
And I'm like to do your job.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
No, it's a little wild yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:54):
Like I'm so confused.
Interesting topic I could rantabout that all day, even though
like tip me all the time.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
But when it comes to me, that 50% makes sense% 50%
for Jasmine.
If you see her in a tastingroom, go tip her 50%, please.
But no, I first learned aboutyour style of winemaking through
when you were at Fielding Hillsbefore and then you did the
(51:28):
concentric program, and I'm awine nerd and my parents live in
manson chelan area and theytexted me.
They're like a picture of thisgamay because, you know, uh,
when I was going through all ofmy uh sommelier certifications,
um, I wanted, you know, burgundy, but I couldn't afford it.
(51:53):
And so I went to Beaujolais andI was like, wow, this is
phenomenal for 45 bucks to getcrew Beaujolais for 45 or less a
lot of times, and now it's like70 or less, but you know, it
happens here we are.
Speaker 3 (52:10):
When you get.
Speaker 1 (52:11):
That's because, like sommeliers and stuff, started
propping up beaujolais andeveryone started buying it,
which is great because I I lovegamay, and so when I saw
carbonic gamay and I was like,oh my gosh, this is happening
again chelan, this is awesome,um.
and so they gave me a bottle ofit and I was like, okay, this is
(52:31):
good, this is really good, Ilike this, I like where this is
going.
And then I was like, who madethis?
And they're like, oh, tylerarmor from fielding hills.
And I was like, okay, cool.
And then after that I juststarted following you because,
like and no offense to anyone Ifeeling Hills isn't necessarily
my style of wine and so I don'treally gravitate towards their
(52:53):
brand necessarily, but theConcentric Project was awesome.
And then I just startedfollowing you wherever you went
and then when you came out withyour own label, I was like I
have to try them, I have to trythem.
So I'm so glad to have you onthe podcast, man, yeah this is
great.
Yeah, I'm glad that you're doingwhat you're doing and I love
what you're doing, so sign upfor the wine club.
Speaker 3 (53:15):
That will be on the website.
Speaker 1 (53:16):
It'll be on the website.
Speaker 2 (53:19):
Can they email?
I know what.
Speaker 1 (53:20):
I'm doing this afternoon.
Can they email anyone for thewine club?
Speaker 2 (53:26):
Yeah, I mean you can contact for them on the website
and we'll get you signed up forsure.
It's just not like a superfancy form on the website.
But yeah, we'll get you signedup.
Speaker 3 (53:36):
Work on that later today.
Yes exactly.
Speaker 1 (53:39):
Sign up for the Wine Club.
At some point I will be a WineClub member.
I love everything you do, sothis is my third wine of yours.
I've tried.
Speaker 2 (53:48):
Only third.
Speaker 3 (53:48):
Only third.
This is my first.
Speaker 1 (53:50):
This is my third Holy moly, well, except for Fielding
Hills I think I've had yourGamay, your Viognier and then
this guy.
Speaker 2 (53:58):
So we're going to open something else.
So we're going to opensomething else.
Speaker 3 (54:01):
Yeah, Try to get a wine club out of this baby.
Speaker 1 (54:06):
Thank you guys, so much for listening.
If you want to hear more fromtyler armor, um and their wines,
take a peek at the show notes.
In the description.
We'll have links to theirwebsite and their wine club and
their social media.
So go follow them um, supportthem.
They're amazing, they makeawesome wines and you will never
(54:26):
regret buying a bottle.
So yes, thank you, tyler, yeah,cheers thank you, tyler, that's
good not cheersing oh sorry you.
Speaker 3 (54:34):
Thank you.
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