January 15, 2021 • 46 mins
On this week’s episode, I have Michael Legge, who is a former actor best known for playing teenage Frank McCourt in Allen parker’s 1999 movie Angela's ashes and you might also know him from other TV shows like Shameless. Since being famous in the acting world for over two decades, he has now transitioned into a new career, having extensively studied self-development, various forms of therapies, and coaching. Now he is the founder of the mind health coach, helping actors and performing artists with anxiety and achieving their peak performance to excel in their career. We actually met in India, a few years ago at a neuro-linguistic programming retreat and got on very well. I had to get him on the show as he made quite a career change and talks openly about it. In this episode, you will discover:
- How Michael made the decision to leave his successful career in acting of almost 20 years and the gradual transition to a new passion of coaching
- How solving his own persistent level of anxiety in acting fuelled helping other actors with this common challenge in the profession
- What skills from a long and successful career in acting transferred into coaching?
- How Michael’s purpose changed as his career changed and the realisation of shifting from his ego to operating at the level of contribution to others
- How to tackle anxiety in your career and during Covid-19
- What’s the one thing that’s made Michael Legge burn from within?
Resources:1
- Michael’s MindPerfect Program - get back in control of your mind in just 10 weeks: https://themindhealthcoach.com/control-mindperfect-program/
- Follow Michael’s amazing tips and videos on Instragram @themindhealthcoach
- Angela’s Ashes - Michael’s first major movie when he was a child - watch it on Amazon Prime now
- Michael’s career as a successful actor laid out on Wikipedia
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (00:27):
On this week's episode, I have Michael
Legg.
Who's a former actor best knownfor playing teenage.
Frank McCourt in Allen park is1999.
Movie Angela's ashes.
And you might also know him fromother TV shows like shameless.
Now since being famous in theacting world for over two
(00:50):
decades, he's now transitionedinto a new career.
Having extensively studiedself-development various forms
of therapy and coaching.
Now he's the founder of the mindhealth coach, helping actors and
performing artists with anxietyand achieving their peak
(01:11):
performance to Excel in thatcareer.
We actually met in India a fewyears ago at a neuro-linguistic
programming retreat.
In this episode, you willdiscover how Michael made the
decision to leave his successfulcareer enacting of almost 20
years and the gradual transitionto a new passion of coaching.
(01:34):
How solving his own persistentlevel of anxiety Fueled a new
passion to help others whatskills from a long and
successful career in actingtransferred into coaching.
How Michael's purpose changed?
As his career changed.
How to tackle anxiety in yourcareer and during COVID 19.
(01:56):
What's the one thing that makesMichael leg.
Burn from within.
The full show notes and videosof other interviews are
available.
App burn from within.com forwardslash interviews.
So listen all the way through.
And enjoy.
Rewind and fast forward to thetime when you thought.
(02:17):
You know what acting is,something that I want to
potentially leave behind as acareer path and maybe do
something different, took aboutthat time.
And what was going on in yourexperience then?
Michael Legge (02:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I had a very successfulacting career and, acting was my
passion since I was a teenager.
And I was incredibly lucky.
I worked with some of the bestactors and directors in the
world, and I learned a hugeamount from them and not just
about acting about life.
(02:52):
And I had a lot of fun along theway.
But a.
Yeah, it was never, I guess itwas never like a deliberate
decision to leave acting oranything.
It was there came a point to becompletely honest where there
was like a natural transitioninto coaching because, at my
most successful I discoveredthat I was in an industry where
(03:15):
you needed to be mentally verystrong.
And I, got a lot of success veryquickly.
And I realized that particularlyin the creative industries,
there's a lot of pressure.
There's a lot of insecurity andyou really need to be at the top
of your game and so I tookmyself off basically, and I
(03:35):
learned lots of strategies andtools and techniques.
I did a lot of training, a lotof different courses.
I was very lucky to meet you inIndia at that time.
And when our, one of our NLPtrainings and then basically
these techniques and strategiesthat they worked so well for me.
(03:56):
And that just naturally Istarted helping other people,
other actors, essentially itstarted with, I naturally just
started helping my actorcolleagues.
And that's really when the mindhealth coach kicked off.
So it was, yeah, it was more ofa natural transition rather than
a, I'm going to quit acting andbecome a coach now.
(04:17):
And yeah.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (04:19):
Yeah.
And so you mentioned that you'vestarted helping other actors who
were in her, in your, in yourshoes.
What was it that inspired you todo all of this?
Personal development.
Self-development tr extensivetraining in therapy, different
therapy, methodologies, andcoaching.
What were the problems orchallenges that you were trying
(04:40):
to solve in your life?
And how are those challengescommon in the actors that you're
helping?
Michael Legge (04:50):
So I would say that the main challenge that I
discovered, I didn't know it wascalled anxiety at the time.
And I have to say that it nevergot to an extreme level, but it
got to a level where I was dailyfeeling this just sense of
(05:10):
unease.
And.
I was working back to back withfilm and theater and TV and I
think part of it was, I wasworking very hard and I was a
bit of a perfectionist, I stillam.
So I was trying to really doeverything at the top of my game
and learning how to be in theindustry and have wellbeing at
(05:35):
the same time.
And really, you know what,you've set up as amazing because
if I'd find you then essentiallywhat I was going through was a
burner.
So a symptom was certainlyanxiety.
I'm not sure I'm crazy, but Sen,had terrible anxiety for years.
I didn't really, it was justmore this kind of low level That
(05:59):
Florida, when I would have anaddition, for example, and, I
really wanted the part.
I would put a ton of pressure onmyself, like way too much
pressure on myself.
And unfortunately, sometimesthat worked, I would nearly
addition and I would get thepart and then, that became a
Potter and it was like, clearly,that's how, I need to get myself
that stressed to be thatsuccessful and continue being,
(06:21):
not successful.
And equally I was in my midtwenties, to late twenties at
the height of my success andthen going into my early
thirties.
And as I matured, I think Irealized I don't need to feel
the stress at the time.
I don't think it's.
I know it's not healthy.
I know that I surely it'sunsustainable.
(06:43):
I saw kind of other actorsaround me, that's come to other
things, and I got a realeducation in why actors can go
run down the drink and drugsRouge, especially the older
actors you could see.
Just cause there's so muchstress and pressure and
insecurity in the industry.
And I knew I just, I didn't wantto go there.
(07:04):
I'd worked too hard.
And so before, I guess before itgot any worse, before it got to
the point where I had to quitcompletely and because I was
just too anxious and stressed, Iknew that it was important to
work on myself.
And equally, because I am a bitof a perfectionist, that hasn't
gone away.
(07:24):
I am.
I studied everything I could getmy hands on.
I had to I felt I had to becomethe best learning, personal
development, but then I loved itso much.
And I've always been fascinatedby psychology being an actor.
Anyway, that's one of thereasons I think it became an
actor I'm fascinated by whatmakes people tick.
I'm not, I'm just fascinated byhelping people feel better
(07:47):
essentially.
That's what I do.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (07:50):
Yeah.
And in terms of when.
When you started exploring allthese different personal
development methodologies, wasthere a, like a moment where you
just said that's it I'm donewith acting and yeah.
Knew that, this path of coachingtherapy was something you wanted
to do or was it like a verygradual process?
(08:12):
How did that transition unfold?
Michael Legge (08:16):
Yeah.
Great question.
So I kept working for a good, Ikept working for a good and 10
years after I started learning,yes, I, it was a gradual process
in to personal development.
Cause I was a bit.
I have a little bit of a cynicalbrand as well, too.
(08:38):
A lot of the kind of self-helpstuff and particularly the
self-help industry.
And then, and that's just causeI was, I think I was ignorant to
a lot of the brilliant stuffthat is available like there and
the stuff that I'd seen beforethat was to me, felt a bit trite
and a bit, be the best versionof yourself and all of this
(09:00):
stuff when I was already in thecareer that was pressurized.
I didn't feel like I wanted toput more pressure on myself and
I felt that was counterproductive to wellbeing.
And I realized I wanted to gomore into the wellbeing route.
So it was a gradual process inand then it took over.
And I think I started doing verywell as a coach and I find
(09:21):
myself not wanting to take onacting jobs.
Because I was busy with clientsand also I could see
transformations and clients thatI was working with.
Then I was getting greatfeedback and I was getting the
sand buds and to be completelyhonest that I got from acting,
I'd come upstairs and, it's veryit's hard to explain, but it's a
(09:42):
very similar kind of feeling ofachievement you get when you
come off stage or you'vefinished filming a scene or.
And you feel you've done areally good job on it.
It's a similar, it's a similarfeeling.
I think when you feel you'vetransformed somebody's
perspective on something, whichis essentially what acting is
doing, when you're on stage oryou're in a movie or you're on a
TV series.
And I think that's the most funpart of playing a different
(10:04):
character when you can besomebody completely different
and then change somebody'sperspective on something.
If the script is good and it's,a good project so really then
yeah, it evolved and the, thecoaching took over and it became
a very, yeah.
As I said, it just became a verynatural transition and also,
never say never, I never
Matt Garrow-Fisher (10:28):
a dot potentially in acting
interesting.
Got it.
And you've had a successfulcareer in acting trained.
Now you're a coach.
I always find people thattransitioned to new industries.
They have a set of skills thatthey've developed and sometimes
you can transfer those skillsinto brand new disciplines.
(10:50):
What do you think you've learnedin your years of your acting
career?
That you can translate into.
Everyday life for yourself.
And also for the people that youcoach what skills maybe
principles or values have servedyou well, or you've developed
that you can now give to others.
Michael Legge (11:12):
And another great question.
I think the first one that comesto mind as an actor, when you're
preparing for a row and even ifthe row similar to you which
often it isn't but even if it issimilar to, you do a
psychological assessment of thatcharacter, you really do.
(11:33):
You break down the behavior ofthe beliefs.
The environments that thecharacter is in, where the
characters being, where thecharacters go into.
It's very similar with coach andit's, what's happened to you,
where are you right now?
Where do you want to be?
What are your beliefs?
What are your, and, talk methrough your day.
(11:55):
When you wake up in the morning,what is your behavior?
What you do, what are yourhabits?
What are your disciplines?
It's squarely similar.
And I think that's the mainthing that I bring.
I will rarely say to my clientsthat I'm cause I do, I work with
lots of different techniques.
I work with CBT and NLP, andthere's a lot of acting stuff in
(12:17):
there.
And very rarely will I say, I'mnot doing a character
assessment.
But yeah, that would be the mainthing.
To be able to assess somebody.
And mainly for the reason ofgetting to know an acting, you
would call it a super objectivein our world.
(12:37):
We call it well, our world.
Now we call it purpose, andbecause.
Why do you get out of bed in themorning?
I think that's the big that'sthe big question we all want to
answer.
And once you went through that,you're sorted.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (12:50):
And do you know what I mean?
I was thinking of asking thisquestion and you've just brought
it up, but what would you say isyour purpose now?
And what would you say was yourpurpose when you were acting
when you're in that career?
And if there is a difference.
Michael Legge (13:09):
Very good.
That's, it's a very lovelyquestion to ponder because I
could give you the true answeror I could give it the answer
I'd like to give you, whichwould be untrue.
So I'm going to be completelyhonest, as soon as you said it.
I thought my purpose as an actorwas to work as much as possible
and to be a successful actor, ifI'm being completely honest and.
(13:32):
Because of the nature of theindustry.
I think it's forefront in mostdoctor's minds, not to
generalize, but I think it'strue.
You go from job to job and it'sthe only security you have
really you want to work as muchas possible.
No, my purpose is to, is muchmore a button, my own wellbeing
(13:55):
and the wellbeing of everybodyyou remind me.
My, my kind of grand purpose isto make as many people as
possible feel better in whateverway that means.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (14:10):
Yeah.
There's definitely a pattern inwhen you started talking about
your transition of moving awayfrom acting and just having that
underlying it, wasn't like.
Extreme burnout or extremeanxiety, but there was this kind
of level of of anxiety ofpressure that you really wanted
to get away from.
(14:31):
And it went part and parcel withthe industry as well, as you
said.
And now that, and now you'retransitioning to help other
people To to deal with thatwhatever level of anxiety or
stress or burnout they're in.
What do you think, is it aboutwellbeing that, that became so
important to you?
That, that made that shift of,okay.
(14:52):
I think I want to move into thisspace of wellbeing and away from
acting.
What was important about that?
Michael Legge (15:02):
So I think I think the turning point for me
was understanding that I wantedto enjoy the job that I did and
I was starting to not enjoybeing an actor and acting and I
was on.
(15:22):
I was on an incredibly whenthis, so we really started, and
when this stuff really startedkicking off as in, in my own
head of, Ooh, maybe this isn'tright for me, I was, I was in
shameless.
I was on that show shameless.
That was super successful.
And I remember specifically, Ithink I was I'm the fourth
season of it.
And I was about to shoot ascene.
(15:43):
And I remember very distinctlyjust thinking to myself, I
should be feeling so fortunateand I should be so happy.
I'm about to go out and workwith these amazing actors.
And they were, they'reincredible actors and lovely
crew.
And I just felt a little I justfelt empty.
I just felt the kind ofemptiness.
And I felt very guilty aboutthat for a long time, but it was
(16:06):
I think it was me maturing.
Really?
I think I I was growing up andmaturing and as I matured yeah,
came to the kind of realization,that this, yeah.
Th that wellbeing and feelinggood.
Every day is it's something tostrive towards.
(16:29):
And there were too many dayswhere I was just worrying about
learning lines and, getting myperformance right.
And worrying about, will I be inthe next series or will I get
that other job that I additionfor, or, and.
I was just worrying a lot.
I think I was just worryingconstantly and then I didn't
(16:50):
want to, and I knew I didn'thave to.
I knew that there was, otherways.
So
Matt Garrow-Fisher (16:56):
It's interesting you say that a few
of the other guests I've hadmentioned.
Very successful careers.
They've climbed up the corporateladder sometimes, or, being very
successful in their ownbusinesses.
And then they reach a goalpotentially or level of status
where, any more status is notgiving them.
(17:18):
The satisfaction that they gotwhen they first were in their
career and they were climbing upthe ladder.
And then it becomes okay what'snext?
They've done this.
There must be more to life.
And then that this empty feelingstarts to sink in.
Yeah.
And that's when people start toshift from, the ego and,
massaging status tend to movetowards contribution that the
(17:41):
six human needs Maslow tumorneeds Talks about this
extensively.
Do you think there was a sh akind of a shift for you when you
realized that wellbeing was moreimportant and what was there
like a shift towards maybecontribution and actually.
Helping others or making theworld a better place or a bigger
(18:03):
purpose.
Did you think there was thatkind of shift?
Michael Legge (18:08):
Yeah that's a very interesting it's a very
interesting reflection actually,because as you're just saying
that I I'm not saying I wasunusual as an actor.
A lot of actors actuallyuncomfortable with the spotlight
outside of the acting, if but Iparticularly find that stuff
super uncomfortable.
I remember the very first TVseries I, I did.
(18:30):
I was 18 and I was in London andI was with this big group of
guys shooting a series calleddream team.
No.
It was the very first series andit was for sky and dream team
became this huge like case.
It became this massive pit show.
And I remember the first fewepisodes went out and I'd flung
(18:52):
back to Ireland and I was comingthrough the airport.
And loads of people were comingover and taking photos.
And this was when they hadcameras.
It wasn't like phone cameras.
That's a long time ago, but Iremember that stuff I got that
happened very quickly.
And So in terms of all of theego stuff of an actor, some
(19:14):
actors love that a lot of actorsto be honest dunked.
And, but I didn't just not likeit it made me it was like I
turned into a different person.
I became super, super shy withthat kind of attention.
I felt really uncomfortable withit.
And I just, I didn't like it.
And I never knew how I thinkmaybe if you do a big therapy
(19:34):
session on me, I would probablysay, I, was going to
self-sabotage my career becauseI was terrified about becoming
famous.
I was scared because the morekind of famous I did become, and
the more I did get recognizedand.
I find that difficult.
I find that really difficult.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (19:54):
My question was did you notice a shift when
you'd actually achieved acertain goal?
Level of success in your careerwhere, you know, the more
success you achieved that, youweren't as motivated by that.
And actually there was a, whenyou went towards wellbeing, do
you feel that there was a shiftto contribute to, to the world
(20:16):
in some way, whether that's agreater purpose or making the
world a better place or helpingother people, do you feel that
there was a shift in thatdirection?
Michael Legge (20:27):
Yes.
So absolutely there was a, yeah,there was a definite shift to a
lot of focus had been on me,basically.
A lot of focus had been on me.
And you are pretty well whenyou're doing well as an actor,
you are looked after very welland and When you're off SAS or
you're not in that world.
(20:48):
I certainly would find myselfwanting to help other people in
whatever way that I could.
And I think a, I think, andit's, for me, it started feeling
much more valuable to help otherpeople than, She had an episode
(21:08):
of something.
I wasn't sure that I was reallyshifting perspectives by being
in a long run and TV show that,people really loved and enjoyed,
but I didn't feel, I didn't feelpurposeful.
Exactly.
I did not feel purposeful.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (21:26):
And when you mentioned that your purposes as
an actor was to work really hardif we go even a level above
that, like what, for what reasondid you want to work so hard?
Can imagine a lot of listenerswould be thinking I want to.
Winning an award, or I want to,win more major TV shows or films
(21:47):
and that kind of stuff.
But what was the driver for?
What?
For working so hard?
Michael Legge (21:53):
I think for me, the driver for working so hard
was being very conscious thatwithin the acting industry,
certainly then work begets work.
The more you work, the more workyou've got and as an actor, that
the biggest fear is being out ofwork, essentially.
(22:14):
And of course, when you'rewithin the industry, you see all
around you, most people at anyone time are out of work.
And so it's, it's right there.
And I experienced, I experienceda lot of being out of work as
well.
And that would often surprisepeople because sometimes, some
of the years where I, I do thebig film, but then maybe I
(22:35):
wouldn't work for six monthsafter that.
And I don't think people quiteunderstood that, eh, outside of
the industry, certainly withinthe industry actors get that,
actors will go, we'll dosomething pretty huge and
there'll be at the premiere andthere'll be interviews and
there'll be all over magazines,but they may not have worked
(22:55):
since that movie was filmed,which could have been a year or
two years ago.
Yeah.
Yes,
Matt Garrow-Fisher (23:02):
and I'm very curious about you've made this
shift out of acting and there'sprobably a lot of actors out
there that, felt that anxietyand, not, it's not a constant
stream of work, as you say that,the creative industry in general
isn't what would you say topeople that are, In that
constant state of stress, maybenot feeling fulfilled in their
(23:24):
career.
And you could be talking aboutactors, but it could translate
to other careers as well.
What, with your own experience,and I guess with hindsight what
would you say for them to do inorder to find a new purpose or
transition into the next stageof their life?
If they feel that they're.
Not a path that's thatsustainable or not a path that
(23:47):
is fulfilling.
Michael Legge (23:51):
So I think for sure, and what helped me
definitely was Taking a littlebit of time to reflect on what I
actually wanted.
So I think that's the firstthing that I would recommend
too.
Absolutely.
If it's in your conscious mindthat you're not fully fulfilled
(24:11):
Or there's a bit of an edgethere that you can't quite
scratch.
I think it's a good sign and Ithink it's a great opportunity
more than anything else don't befearful of that, that it's just
there for a reason.
So just of that first I'm beingconscious that this,
understanding that can be a verygood thing.
This can be an amazingopportunity.
(24:34):
And it's not necessarily aboutchanging everything, but I think
there's always improvement to bemade when you have that itch.
And you're not quite sure what'shappening.
And so that's the first thing Iwould say.
The second thing I would say istalk to somebody.
And for sure.
Go see you talk to you much.
(24:54):
You're the mom, or maybe come tome first thing, go to you, but
no, absolutely.
I think I talk to somebody whocan steer you to clarity.
It's all about clarity.
It's all about sitting down andtalking to somebody who can
steer you and in a directionthat you either may not have
(25:17):
thought about before, or youhave thought about, but you
haven't.
Had the luxury of sitting downand spending an hour or two,
none of us do that.
We rarely sit down and say I'mjust going to reflect on, the
next three months that mightlast for five minutes.
If you're with somebody who'sused to doing that with you and,
or even if it is your partner ora friend or whatever, but have
(25:38):
somebody.
To sit there and question you,on, on what you really want and
just try to get as much clarityabout what you genuinely want as
possible.
Cause often we, I think we tendto bury our wants.
So sometimes we think we knowwhat we want, but it's only when
we're deeply questioned that weoften get surprised by what we
(26:00):
actually want.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (26:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And in terms of obviously youmade the shift to, to, to
wellbeing now there's an elementof having balance in your life
to have wellbeing.
How do you Restore balance inyour life when things might seem
chaotic.
And, maybe from your experiencein working with clients who
(26:24):
might be super busy maybe reallystressed and have to perform
like at their peak to do theirjobs enacting.
How can you what steps can youtake in order to Get more
balanced in your life for theimportant things like your
health, your family,relationships, passions, that
(26:44):
kind of stuff.
Michael Legge (26:48):
I think we very much create, our life from the
moment we wake up in the morningto the moment we go to sleep
and.
Being conscious that you're muchmore in control of that process.
And I think a lot of peopledon't make changes or don't
imagine that they have thestrength to choose how they want
(27:10):
their days, weeks, months to be.
And you actually do.
And that starts with yourthinking.
Absolutely.
It starts with your thinking.
So be brave enough if you have,another.
An interest that you, thathasn't developed fully or a
talent or there's something,burning within you.
I think that's your thing.
And, we all know when we'vesomething burning within us and
(27:35):
run with it.
Absolutely run with it.
There's a reason that thing isburning within you, it's it
needs to it needs to get out.
And I often it's the best thingyou can do to let something like
that out and be brave enough, bebrave enough to make changes.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (27:52):
Yeah.
In terms of some of thechallenges that you have seen
in, in, in your job now incoaching, what have been.
Like some of the common problemsthat clients have had with
regard to anxiety in their joband in their career.
(28:13):
And also now during COVID howhas that kind of changed the
dynamic for some of the problemsthat you solve?
Michael Legge (28:23):
Firstly, with COVID I think a lot of people
who didn't really know whatanxiety was now I do,
unfortunately.
And also, so very, unfortunatelythe people who were suffering
with any kind of anxiety orstress that's, multiplied.
Generally we're living in a veryanxious, collectively we're very
(28:47):
anxious at the moment.
And.
And it's a very difficultsituation because yourself,
these things kind of spreads,the news, everyone's watching
the news and it's just, bad newsheadline after bad news
headline, after bad newsheadline.
And we're slightly addicted togetting the information and
we're processing thisinformation and.
(29:11):
And so I think we're glued tothe news much more than we would
ordinarily be.
And I think, with the wholeenvironmental crisis, that's
happening as well at the minutewith with Brexit, with there
seems to be a lot happening atonce.
And the absolute best thing Ithink people can do for sure is
(29:33):
to Is to really cultivate a morepositive, optimistic mindset.
It sounds at times very obvious,and it is very obvious, but at
the more positive and the moreoptimistic people can be, and
the more resilient they're goingto be, yourself might the most
resilient people in the world.
(29:55):
They all have one thing incommon and that's a positive
can-do mindset.
And people, yes are beingincredibly tested at the minute.
The people who were alreadyanxious with life are super
anxious.
The people who've never hadanxiety before are now
understanding what anxiety is.
And
Matt Garrow-Fisher (30:13):
I was going to ask about yeah.
Actual practices and routinesmaybe, or habits to people who
couldn't adopt to, consistentlylower anxiety.
And when we take yourself backto when you and your acting
career, there was that level ofanxiety.
That just, it just didn't goaway.
How can people.
Though with that level, whateverit is, if it's like burnout
(30:34):
level too, something that's alittle bit uncomfortable, how
can people consistently lowertheir, average level of anxiety?
Is there any regular habits thatthey can adopt disciplines,
things that they can learn andall of that kind of stuff, even,
how do they cultivate a positivemindset?
(30:55):
How do they do that?
Michael Legge (30:58):
Okay, brilliant.
So the first thing about anxietyfor me the first big kind of
principle, the first big idea onstarting to reduce your anxiety
is absolutely look into the pastand being aware and that you've
got through.
We all have, we've all gotthrough trauma, we've all got
through negative experiences andwe've all been through stressful
(31:22):
events.
And knowing that you'll getthrough it again, you just will
and having that knowledge andreminding yourself that we are
so much stronger than we canpossibly imagine.
We are so much more resilient.
Then we can imagine there's somuch more going on inside of us
and within us than we can everimagine.
(31:46):
And we mostly are going to beokay.
So having a very strong beliefthat everything is going to be
okay.
And that's not, that's not atoxic positivity that's reality,
99% of what goes on in our headswith worry and anxiety is
rubbish.
It's our own invention.
(32:07):
99% of it never happens.
So the other thing withbatteries, we being aware that
being aware of where yourfocuses.
And because we tend to get whatwe focus on.
So of course the more negativewe are.
Okay.
We're going to start noticinglots of negative things within
(32:27):
our environment and the morepositive we are, the same, we're
just going to notice much morepositive things.
At a point it very much is achoice you can decide to wake up
in the morning and set anintention.
I think that's a brilliantexercise to start with just
setting an intention of, whatI'm going to have a great day
today.
Whatever happens.
I'm going to do my best just toget through the day and try to
(32:49):
stay as positive as possible.
And I think there's a reallybrilliant exercise that I
learned called flip the word Xthat I do a lot with clients and
flip the word ifs is, and.
Anxiety and anxious thoughts andworry is often proceeded by us
asking ourselves, that littleinner critic, usually critical
(33:10):
voice that we have, but theinner voice will often ask what
if followed by a negative?
You know what, if I lose my job,what if I get sick?
What if
Matt Garrow-Fisher (33:20):
this it's the recipe for fair, right?
It's like the underlying formulafor fair.
Michael Legge (33:26):
It is it's the formula for fair.
So let's, let's change theformula and two, what if plus a
positive?
So what if, everything turns outokay, what if I can cope?
And I do get through this and.
It's a habit, of course.
And it takes a little bit ofit's a pattern that you can
(33:48):
develop, but if you every timeyou become conscious of what
effing plus a negative, if youcan flip that immediately to a,
what if positive, it's a habitto the more you do it.
And naturally you'll start goingto the positive.
And so that's one for sure.
That's a good one.
(34:09):
I'm a huge fan of meditation.
I'm a massive fan of meditationand there's so many different
types out there.
I personally do transcendental,but I'm a big fan of mindful
meditation as well.
The main kind of the big ideawith meditation will the way I
(34:29):
see it is We are absolutely notour thoughts.
Like absolutely not ourthoughts.
And it's a very dangerous thing.
I think when people startbelieving everything that they
think because as I said so muchof it is genuinely rubbish and
that's not being disparaging ordisrespectful to people.
It's just, it's biology.
(34:50):
A lot of it is just garbled,rubbish.
And so meditation does thiswonderful thing that it
disassociates and your thoughtsfrom you so that you can just
observe the and observing yourown thoughts.
The brilliant thing that happenseventually after, and a few
meditation sessions and it getsstronger, the more you do it is
(35:13):
You really are able to look atyour thoughts as separate to
you, and then they lose all oftheir power.
And I really good exercise toget started with is a, if you
close your eyes and you justimagine your thoughts as imagine
you're sitting on the side of aroad and your thoughts are cars,
(35:36):
lorries, and traffic, andthey're just driving past.
You can just sit for a fewminutes and just every thought
that comes into your head overthe next few minutes.
Not that we'll do it now, butover the next few minutes, you
just imagine, I thought drivespast here comes another one.
It's not driving past and herecomes another one.
(35:57):
It's driving past.
If you do this for a couple ofminutes, just every day, that's
enough meditation.
To start.
Cause we think meditation isjust about becoming conscious
that your thoughts are not, youthat's essentially what it is so
that, a large part of the brain
Matt Garrow-Fisher (36:13):
People can maybe adopt these practices at
what point.
Would you say clients come toyou for help and support,
whether that's for anxiety or tohelp them with their performance
in their career?
Like at what point do youtypically see people reach out
to you for help?
Michael Legge (36:35):
Okay.
So I would definitely say thoseknow there's three different
kind of timings.
When people come to me in termsof what they're experiencing,
when they come to me one willbe.
I've had enough, I know thatthis thing is really affecting
my work or really affecting myrelationships or really
(36:58):
affecting the quality of mylife.
And I might rock bottom and Ireally need help.
And in that.
Circumstance depending on howdeep it is and whether they need
to see, a psychotherapist or apsychologist.
I've a lot of people that Irecommend them to see if I feel
I can help them as a coach.
I absolutely will.
The second kind of group ofpeople that come to me, they're
(37:21):
all where.
They're aware that there'ssomething within them.
That's just holding them back.
It may not be it's a bit likethe way I was, it's not daily on
their mind, but they just knowthat.
It's a niche, it's I just saylife's maybe possibly by, and I
haven't really achievedeverything that I wanted.
(37:42):
And I know there's all of thiskind of talent in me, for these
other things that has never beenlaid out and, or, there's a
little bit of anxiety in me orI'm a bit worried, or I'm a bit
stressed about makingpresentations or I'm a bit
stressed about this.
And I really wish I wasn't, andI wish I was more positive and
more confident.
And then I have another set ofpeople that come to me who are,
(38:05):
it's all about the highperformance state they're doing
super well already, and theyjust want to I'm not going to
say the phrase crush it, butthey, but I just did, but they
want to, they want peakperformance.
And so those are the three kindof various that I work on.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (38:26):
Got it.
Got it.
Awesome.
My final question, Michael isnow I call someone that burns
from within they're living alife full of passion and
purposeful and they have balancefor all the things that are
important to them in life.
How would you, what's the onething do you think has made the
(38:47):
biggest difference for you toburn from within to live with
passion, purpose, and balance?
Michael Legge (38:52):
Wow.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (38:54):
And you can take your time.
A lot of people do.
Michael Legge (38:58):
It's such a great question.
I love that question.
Yes, I know exactly what.
A, when I understood the conceptthat I teach very early on when
I'm coaching people when I fullyunderstood the concept, that
there is always a pause between,external stimulus, something
(39:22):
happening and your reaction toit.
And in that pause, you have achoice as to how to behave.
As to whether to react to itnegatively or react to it
positively or be proactive.
And that blew my mind and stilldoes, because now I remember I
(39:46):
wrote on a sheet of paper yearsago that I don't feel unwell.
But I just feel that I'd love tobe in control of my own brand
100% of the time.
And and that concept reallyhelps with that.
Just knowing that whateverhappens to you in life, you're
(40:08):
always much more in control thanyou think.
And you can be much more incontrol, with just a little bit
of practice.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (40:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's that concept of you're, youare not your thoughts.
And actually just take a momentjust to observe things and
things will pass and it took awhile for me to realize I did
iowaska and I was, I realizedthat I wasn't even my body,
there's a separation there andyeah.
(40:39):
That, that is actuallycomforting to know that you can
just observe things and not feellike you're being led.
Life is leading you, butactually you're in control.
But it, it requires some, somepractice and discipline and.
Educating yourself and yeah,that's made a huge difference to
my life as well.
So really interesting.
I'm fascinated particularly, weboth.
(41:01):
Of study to neuro-linguisticprogramming.
And one of the big components ofNLP is modeling modeling other
people, modeling people that youwant to replicate similar
results to and I think some, tobe honest, the ultimate form of
modeling that I've seen outsideof NLP is through acting whether
it's method acting or doing likea character assessment and
(41:24):
really getting into the mind ofa character.
If given where in COVID well, alot of countries are in
lockdown.
The UK is in full nationallockdown now.
Yeah.
Is there any particularcharacter or person that you
think you would like to methodact or get into their mind to
(41:46):
help with dealing with anxietyor dealing with this quite
challenging situation that manyof us are in with COVID is there
any particular Characters oreven people that, maybe role
models that people can start tothink about and get into that
step into their worlds in orderto deal with this COVID crisis,
Michael Legge (42:10):
want to know their burning question?
I immediately, I was thinking ofone person throughout,
throughout that and it's Justcause I think he's the wisest
person in the world and it'sDavid Attenborough.
And I think, cause he, it's wellknown, isn't it?
That all of his documentaries,part of the magic of it is.
(42:35):
Just this beautiful, soothingvoice that he has.
And that's him, that's hischaracter.
That's his love and his, thatenergy coming through the screen
and his passion and enthusiasmand intelligence and he's
articulate.
And and yeah, we need a lot moreof that in the world.
We need a lot of that right now.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (42:53):
I totally get that.
And with Attenborough, he's,he's lived a long life already.
I think he's 94 now and seeingthe world changed so much, been
through world Wars and economiccrisis and all of that.
But, there's something about himthat he's.
It's a calm wise old man that,that seen the world and he knows
(43:13):
that things can get better.
And taking this proactiveapproach to making, to finding
solutions, to making the worldbetter, even with all of these
challenges, become the calm oldman that with a strong voice, I
love it.
Where can people find.
You Michael contact you toinquire about coaching and or
(43:33):
acting and and, get in touchwith you.
How can they do that?
Michael Legge (43:39):
So you can check my website, the mind health
coach.com, and I'm on Instagramquite a bit at the mind health
coach, or you can always emailme if you ever want to get in
contact.
It'smichael@themindhealthcoach.com.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (43:57):
Love it.
Thank you so much, Michael.
It's been a, it's been a reallyinteresting interview talking
about like a lot of differenttopics from, acting,
transitioning, coachingmindfulness, David Attenborough
and thoroughly enjoyed it.
And thank you once again forjoining the show.
Michael Legge (44:16):
It's a pleasure.
I love to thanks a million, man.
Thank you.
Awesome.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (44:20):
If you want to learn more about how to
consistently deal with anxiety,please do check out Michael's
page.
I've included in the show notes.
He's truly a phenomenal coach.
I'm really has an incrediblelevel of skill and helping
actors and actually anyone withboth anxiety and achieving peak
(44:42):
performance.
By shifting their state.
And if you're unsure about whatto do next.
In your career.
Perhaps you're feelingconsistently stressed and can't
find a way out.
What first contact Michael,especially if you're an actor
and then start exploring whichdirection would make sense from
(45:03):
within you.
To live a more.
Passionate purposeful imbalancedlife.
Book a free consultation for my12 week career fulfillment
program.
It's based on a proven methodthat has helped hundreds of
people over the last 14 years tofind a new career path that
lights them up inside.
Just go to burn from within.comforward slash fulfilling career.
(45:29):
And book your free consultationwould be now to see if it's
right for you.
Stay updated with more inspiringinterviews by hitting the
subscribe button now on yourplayer for the burn from within
podcast.
Until next time.
Live with passion, purpose, andbalance.
And burn from within.
On this week's episode, I have Michael
Legg.
Who's a former actor best knownfor playing teenage.
Frank McCourt in Allen park is1999.
Movie Angela's ashes.
And you might also know him fromother TV shows like shameless.
Now since being famous in theacting world for over two
(00:50):
decades, he's now transitionedinto a new career.
Having extensively studiedself-development various forms
of therapy and coaching.
Now he's the founder of the mindhealth coach, helping actors and
performing artists with anxietyand achieving their peak
(01:11):
performance to Excel in thatcareer.
We actually met in India a fewyears ago at a neuro-linguistic
programming retreat.
In this episode, you willdiscover how Michael made the
decision to leave his successfulcareer enacting of almost 20
years and the gradual transitionto a new passion of coaching.
(01:34):
How solving his own persistentlevel of anxiety Fueled a new
passion to help others whatskills from a long and
successful career in actingtransferred into coaching.
How Michael's purpose changed?
As his career changed.
How to tackle anxiety in yourcareer and during COVID 19.
(01:56):
What's the one thing that makesMichael leg.
Burn from within.
The full show notes and videosof other interviews are
available.
App burn from within.com forwardslash interviews.
So listen all the way through.
And enjoy.
Rewind and fast forward to thetime when you thought.
(02:17):
You know what acting is,something that I want to
potentially leave behind as acareer path and maybe do
something different, took aboutthat time.
And what was going on in yourexperience then?
Michael Legge (02:31):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I had a very successfulacting career and, acting was my
passion since I was a teenager.
And I was incredibly lucky.
I worked with some of the bestactors and directors in the
world, and I learned a hugeamount from them and not just
about acting about life.
(02:52):
And I had a lot of fun along theway.
But a.
Yeah, it was never, I guess itwas never like a deliberate
decision to leave acting oranything.
It was there came a point to becompletely honest where there
was like a natural transitioninto coaching because, at my
most successful I discoveredthat I was in an industry where
(03:15):
you needed to be mentally verystrong.
And I, got a lot of success veryquickly.
And I realized that particularlyin the creative industries,
there's a lot of pressure.
There's a lot of insecurity andyou really need to be at the top
of your game and so I tookmyself off basically, and I
(03:35):
learned lots of strategies andtools and techniques.
I did a lot of training, a lotof different courses.
I was very lucky to meet you inIndia at that time.
And when our, one of our NLPtrainings and then basically
these techniques and strategiesthat they worked so well for me.
(03:56):
And that just naturally Istarted helping other people,
other actors, essentially itstarted with, I naturally just
started helping my actorcolleagues.
And that's really when the mindhealth coach kicked off.
So it was, yeah, it was more ofa natural transition rather than
a, I'm going to quit acting andbecome a coach now.
(04:17):
And yeah.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (04:19):
Yeah.
And so you mentioned that you'vestarted helping other actors who
were in her, in your, in yourshoes.
What was it that inspired you todo all of this?
Personal development.
Self-development tr extensivetraining in therapy, different
therapy, methodologies, andcoaching.
What were the problems orchallenges that you were trying
(04:40):
to solve in your life?
And how are those challengescommon in the actors that you're
helping?
Michael Legge (04:50):
So I would say that the main challenge that I
discovered, I didn't know it wascalled anxiety at the time.
And I have to say that it nevergot to an extreme level, but it
got to a level where I was dailyfeeling this just sense of
(05:10):
unease.
And.
I was working back to back withfilm and theater and TV and I
think part of it was, I wasworking very hard and I was a
bit of a perfectionist, I stillam.
So I was trying to really doeverything at the top of my game
and learning how to be in theindustry and have wellbeing at
(05:35):
the same time.
And really, you know what,you've set up as amazing because
if I'd find you then essentiallywhat I was going through was a
burner.
So a symptom was certainlyanxiety.
I'm not sure I'm crazy, but Sen,had terrible anxiety for years.
I didn't really, it was justmore this kind of low level That
(05:59):
Florida, when I would have anaddition, for example, and, I
really wanted the part.
I would put a ton of pressure onmyself, like way too much
pressure on myself.
And unfortunately, sometimesthat worked, I would nearly
addition and I would get thepart and then, that became a
Potter and it was like, clearly,that's how, I need to get myself
that stressed to be thatsuccessful and continue being,
(06:21):
not successful.
And equally I was in my midtwenties, to late twenties at
the height of my success andthen going into my early
thirties.
And as I matured, I think Irealized I don't need to feel
the stress at the time.
I don't think it's.
I know it's not healthy.
I know that I surely it'sunsustainable.
(06:43):
I saw kind of other actorsaround me, that's come to other
things, and I got a realeducation in why actors can go
run down the drink and drugsRouge, especially the older
actors you could see.
Just cause there's so muchstress and pressure and
insecurity in the industry.
And I knew I just, I didn't wantto go there.
(07:04):
I'd worked too hard.
And so before, I guess before itgot any worse, before it got to
the point where I had to quitcompletely and because I was
just too anxious and stressed, Iknew that it was important to
work on myself.
And equally, because I am a bitof a perfectionist, that hasn't
gone away.
(07:24):
I am.
I studied everything I could getmy hands on.
I had to I felt I had to becomethe best learning, personal
development, but then I loved itso much.
And I've always been fascinatedby psychology being an actor.
Anyway, that's one of thereasons I think it became an
actor I'm fascinated by whatmakes people tick.
I'm not, I'm just fascinated byhelping people feel better
(07:47):
essentially.
That's what I do.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (07:50):
Yeah.
And in terms of when.
When you started exploring allthese different personal
development methodologies, wasthere a, like a moment where you
just said that's it I'm donewith acting and yeah.
Knew that, this path of coachingtherapy was something you wanted
to do or was it like a verygradual process?
(08:12):
How did that transition unfold?
Michael Legge (08:16):
Yeah.
Great question.
So I kept working for a good, Ikept working for a good and 10
years after I started learning,yes, I, it was a gradual process
in to personal development.
Cause I was a bit.
I have a little bit of a cynicalbrand as well, too.
(08:38):
A lot of the kind of self-helpstuff and particularly the
self-help industry.
And then, and that's just causeI was, I think I was ignorant to
a lot of the brilliant stuffthat is available like there and
the stuff that I'd seen beforethat was to me, felt a bit trite
and a bit, be the best versionof yourself and all of this
(09:00):
stuff when I was already in thecareer that was pressurized.
I didn't feel like I wanted toput more pressure on myself and
I felt that was counterproductive to wellbeing.
And I realized I wanted to gomore into the wellbeing route.
So it was a gradual process inand then it took over.
And I think I started doing verywell as a coach and I find
(09:21):
myself not wanting to take onacting jobs.
Because I was busy with clientsand also I could see
transformations and clients thatI was working with.
Then I was getting greatfeedback and I was getting the
sand buds and to be completelyhonest that I got from acting,
I'd come upstairs and, it's veryit's hard to explain, but it's a
(09:42):
very similar kind of feeling ofachievement you get when you
come off stage or you'vefinished filming a scene or.
And you feel you've done areally good job on it.
It's a similar, it's a similarfeeling.
I think when you feel you'vetransformed somebody's
perspective on something, whichis essentially what acting is
doing, when you're on stage oryou're in a movie or you're on a
TV series.
And I think that's the most funpart of playing a different
(10:04):
character when you can besomebody completely different
and then change somebody'sperspective on something.
If the script is good and it's,a good project so really then
yeah, it evolved and the, thecoaching took over and it became
a very, yeah.
As I said, it just became a verynatural transition and also,
never say never, I never
Matt Garrow-Fisher (10:28):
a dot potentially in acting
interesting.
Got it.
And you've had a successfulcareer in acting trained.
Now you're a coach.
I always find people thattransitioned to new industries.
They have a set of skills thatthey've developed and sometimes
you can transfer those skillsinto brand new disciplines.
(10:50):
What do you think you've learnedin your years of your acting
career?
That you can translate into.
Everyday life for yourself.
And also for the people that youcoach what skills maybe
principles or values have servedyou well, or you've developed
that you can now give to others.
Michael Legge (11:12):
And another great question.
I think the first one that comesto mind as an actor, when you're
preparing for a row and even ifthe row similar to you which
often it isn't but even if it issimilar to, you do a
psychological assessment of thatcharacter, you really do.
(11:33):
You break down the behavior ofthe beliefs.
The environments that thecharacter is in, where the
characters being, where thecharacters go into.
It's very similar with coach andit's, what's happened to you,
where are you right now?
Where do you want to be?
What are your beliefs?
What are your, and, talk methrough your day.
(11:55):
When you wake up in the morning,what is your behavior?
What you do, what are yourhabits?
What are your disciplines?
It's squarely similar.
And I think that's the mainthing that I bring.
I will rarely say to my clientsthat I'm cause I do, I work with
lots of different techniques.
I work with CBT and NLP, andthere's a lot of acting stuff in
(12:17):
there.
And very rarely will I say, I'mnot doing a character
assessment.
But yeah, that would be the mainthing.
To be able to assess somebody.
And mainly for the reason ofgetting to know an acting, you
would call it a super objectivein our world.
(12:37):
We call it well, our world.
Now we call it purpose, andbecause.
Why do you get out of bed in themorning?
I think that's the big that'sthe big question we all want to
answer.
And once you went through that,you're sorted.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (12:50):
And do you know what I mean?
I was thinking of asking thisquestion and you've just brought
it up, but what would you say isyour purpose now?
And what would you say was yourpurpose when you were acting
when you're in that career?
And if there is a difference.
Michael Legge (13:09):
Very good.
That's, it's a very lovelyquestion to ponder because I
could give you the true answeror I could give it the answer
I'd like to give you, whichwould be untrue.
So I'm going to be completelyhonest, as soon as you said it.
I thought my purpose as an actorwas to work as much as possible
and to be a successful actor, ifI'm being completely honest and.
(13:32):
Because of the nature of theindustry.
I think it's forefront in mostdoctor's minds, not to
generalize, but I think it'strue.
You go from job to job and it'sthe only security you have
really you want to work as muchas possible.
No, my purpose is to, is muchmore a button, my own wellbeing
(13:55):
and the wellbeing of everybodyyou remind me.
My, my kind of grand purpose isto make as many people as
possible feel better in whateverway that means.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (14:10):
Yeah.
There's definitely a pattern inwhen you started talking about
your transition of moving awayfrom acting and just having that
underlying it, wasn't like.
Extreme burnout or extremeanxiety, but there was this kind
of level of of anxiety ofpressure that you really wanted
to get away from.
(14:31):
And it went part and parcel withthe industry as well, as you
said.
And now that, and now you'retransitioning to help other
people To to deal with thatwhatever level of anxiety or
stress or burnout they're in.
What do you think, is it aboutwellbeing that, that became so
important to you?
That, that made that shift of,okay.
(14:52):
I think I want to move into thisspace of wellbeing and away from
acting.
What was important about that?
Michael Legge (15:02):
So I think I think the turning point for me
was understanding that I wantedto enjoy the job that I did and
I was starting to not enjoybeing an actor and acting and I
was on.
(15:22):
I was on an incredibly whenthis, so we really started, and
when this stuff really startedkicking off as in, in my own
head of, Ooh, maybe this isn'tright for me, I was, I was in
shameless.
I was on that show shameless.
That was super successful.
And I remember specifically, Ithink I was I'm the fourth
season of it.
And I was about to shoot ascene.
(15:43):
And I remember very distinctlyjust thinking to myself, I
should be feeling so fortunateand I should be so happy.
I'm about to go out and workwith these amazing actors.
And they were, they'reincredible actors and lovely
crew.
And I just felt a little I justfelt empty.
I just felt the kind ofemptiness.
And I felt very guilty aboutthat for a long time, but it was
(16:06):
I think it was me maturing.
Really?
I think I I was growing up andmaturing and as I matured yeah,
came to the kind of realization,that this, yeah.
Th that wellbeing and feelinggood.
Every day is it's something tostrive towards.
(16:29):
And there were too many dayswhere I was just worrying about
learning lines and, getting myperformance right.
And worrying about, will I be inthe next series or will I get
that other job that I additionfor, or, and.
I was just worrying a lot.
I think I was just worryingconstantly and then I didn't
(16:50):
want to, and I knew I didn'thave to.
I knew that there was, otherways.
So
Matt Garrow-Fisher (16:56):
It's interesting you say that a few
of the other guests I've hadmentioned.
Very successful careers.
They've climbed up the corporateladder sometimes, or, being very
successful in their ownbusinesses.
And then they reach a goalpotentially or level of status
where, any more status is notgiving them.
(17:18):
The satisfaction that they gotwhen they first were in their
career and they were climbing upthe ladder.
And then it becomes okay what'snext?
They've done this.
There must be more to life.
And then that this empty feelingstarts to sink in.
Yeah.
And that's when people start toshift from, the ego and,
massaging status tend to movetowards contribution that the
(17:41):
six human needs Maslow tumorneeds Talks about this
extensively.
Do you think there was a sh akind of a shift for you when you
realized that wellbeing was moreimportant and what was there
like a shift towards maybecontribution and actually.
Helping others or making theworld a better place or a bigger
(18:03):
purpose.
Did you think there was thatkind of shift?
Michael Legge (18:08):
Yeah that's a very interesting it's a very
interesting reflection actually,because as you're just saying
that I I'm not saying I wasunusual as an actor.
A lot of actors actuallyuncomfortable with the spotlight
outside of the acting, if but Iparticularly find that stuff
super uncomfortable.
I remember the very first TVseries I, I did.
(18:30):
I was 18 and I was in London andI was with this big group of
guys shooting a series calleddream team.
No.
It was the very first series andit was for sky and dream team
became this huge like case.
It became this massive pit show.
And I remember the first fewepisodes went out and I'd flung
(18:52):
back to Ireland and I was comingthrough the airport.
And loads of people were comingover and taking photos.
And this was when they hadcameras.
It wasn't like phone cameras.
That's a long time ago, but Iremember that stuff I got that
happened very quickly.
And So in terms of all of theego stuff of an actor, some
(19:14):
actors love that a lot of actorsto be honest dunked.
And, but I didn't just not likeit it made me it was like I
turned into a different person.
I became super, super shy withthat kind of attention.
I felt really uncomfortable withit.
And I just, I didn't like it.
And I never knew how I thinkmaybe if you do a big therapy
(19:34):
session on me, I would probablysay, I, was going to
self-sabotage my career becauseI was terrified about becoming
famous.
I was scared because the morekind of famous I did become, and
the more I did get recognizedand.
I find that difficult.
I find that really difficult.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (19:54):
My question was did you notice a shift when
you'd actually achieved acertain goal?
Level of success in your careerwhere, you know, the more
success you achieved that, youweren't as motivated by that.
And actually there was a, whenyou went towards wellbeing, do
you feel that there was a shiftto contribute to, to the world
(20:16):
in some way, whether that's agreater purpose or making the
world a better place or helpingother people, do you feel that
there was a shift in thatdirection?
Michael Legge (20:27):
Yes.
So absolutely there was a, yeah,there was a definite shift to a
lot of focus had been on me,basically.
A lot of focus had been on me.
And you are pretty well whenyou're doing well as an actor,
you are looked after very welland and When you're off SAS or
you're not in that world.
(20:48):
I certainly would find myselfwanting to help other people in
whatever way that I could.
And I think a, I think, andit's, for me, it started feeling
much more valuable to help otherpeople than, She had an episode
(21:08):
of something.
I wasn't sure that I was reallyshifting perspectives by being
in a long run and TV show that,people really loved and enjoyed,
but I didn't feel, I didn't feelpurposeful.
Exactly.
I did not feel purposeful.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (21:26):
And when you mentioned that your purposes as
an actor was to work really hardif we go even a level above
that, like what, for what reasondid you want to work so hard?
Can imagine a lot of listenerswould be thinking I want to.
Winning an award, or I want to,win more major TV shows or films
(21:47):
and that kind of stuff.
But what was the driver for?
What?
For working so hard?
Michael Legge (21:53):
I think for me, the driver for working so hard
was being very conscious thatwithin the acting industry,
certainly then work begets work.
The more you work, the more workyou've got and as an actor, that
the biggest fear is being out ofwork, essentially.
(22:14):
And of course, when you'rewithin the industry, you see all
around you, most people at anyone time are out of work.
And so it's, it's right there.
And I experienced, I experienceda lot of being out of work as
well.
And that would often surprisepeople because sometimes, some
of the years where I, I do thebig film, but then maybe I
(22:35):
wouldn't work for six monthsafter that.
And I don't think people quiteunderstood that, eh, outside of
the industry, certainly withinthe industry actors get that,
actors will go, we'll dosomething pretty huge and
there'll be at the premiere andthere'll be interviews and
there'll be all over magazines,but they may not have worked
(22:55):
since that movie was filmed,which could have been a year or
two years ago.
Yeah.
Yes,
Matt Garrow-Fisher (23:02):
and I'm very curious about you've made this
shift out of acting and there'sprobably a lot of actors out
there that, felt that anxietyand, not, it's not a constant
stream of work, as you say that,the creative industry in general
isn't what would you say topeople that are, In that
constant state of stress, maybenot feeling fulfilled in their
(23:24):
career.
And you could be talking aboutactors, but it could translate
to other careers as well.
What, with your own experience,and I guess with hindsight what
would you say for them to do inorder to find a new purpose or
transition into the next stageof their life?
If they feel that they're.
Not a path that's thatsustainable or not a path that
(23:47):
is fulfilling.
Michael Legge (23:51):
So I think for sure, and what helped me
definitely was Taking a littlebit of time to reflect on what I
actually wanted.
So I think that's the firstthing that I would recommend
too.
Absolutely.
If it's in your conscious mindthat you're not fully fulfilled
(24:11):
Or there's a bit of an edgethere that you can't quite
scratch.
I think it's a good sign and Ithink it's a great opportunity
more than anything else don't befearful of that, that it's just
there for a reason.
So just of that first I'm beingconscious that this,
understanding that can be a verygood thing.
This can be an amazingopportunity.
(24:34):
And it's not necessarily aboutchanging everything, but I think
there's always improvement to bemade when you have that itch.
And you're not quite sure what'shappening.
And so that's the first thing Iwould say.
The second thing I would say istalk to somebody.
And for sure.
Go see you talk to you much.
(24:54):
You're the mom, or maybe come tome first thing, go to you, but
no, absolutely.
I think I talk to somebody whocan steer you to clarity.
It's all about clarity.
It's all about sitting down andtalking to somebody who can
steer you and in a directionthat you either may not have
(25:17):
thought about before, or youhave thought about, but you
haven't.
Had the luxury of sitting downand spending an hour or two,
none of us do that.
We rarely sit down and say I'mjust going to reflect on, the
next three months that mightlast for five minutes.
If you're with somebody who'sused to doing that with you and,
or even if it is your partner ora friend or whatever, but have
(25:38):
somebody.
To sit there and question you,on, on what you really want and
just try to get as much clarityabout what you genuinely want as
possible.
Cause often we, I think we tendto bury our wants.
So sometimes we think we knowwhat we want, but it's only when
we're deeply questioned that weoften get surprised by what we
(26:00):
actually want.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (26:03):
Yeah.
Yeah.
And in terms of obviously youmade the shift to, to, to
wellbeing now there's an elementof having balance in your life
to have wellbeing.
How do you Restore balance inyour life when things might seem
chaotic.
And, maybe from your experiencein working with clients who
(26:24):
might be super busy maybe reallystressed and have to perform
like at their peak to do theirjobs enacting.
How can you what steps can youtake in order to Get more
balanced in your life for theimportant things like your
health, your family,relationships, passions, that
(26:44):
kind of stuff.
Michael Legge (26:48):
I think we very much create, our life from the
moment we wake up in the morningto the moment we go to sleep
and.
Being conscious that you're muchmore in control of that process.
And I think a lot of peopledon't make changes or don't
imagine that they have thestrength to choose how they want
(27:10):
their days, weeks, months to be.
And you actually do.
And that starts with yourthinking.
Absolutely.
It starts with your thinking.
So be brave enough if you have,another.
An interest that you, thathasn't developed fully or a
talent or there's something,burning within you.
I think that's your thing.
And, we all know when we'vesomething burning within us and
(27:35):
run with it.
Absolutely run with it.
There's a reason that thing isburning within you, it's it
needs to it needs to get out.
And I often it's the best thingyou can do to let something like
that out and be brave enough, bebrave enough to make changes.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (27:52):
Yeah.
In terms of some of thechallenges that you have seen
in, in, in your job now incoaching, what have been.
Like some of the common problemsthat clients have had with
regard to anxiety in their joband in their career.
(28:13):
And also now during COVID howhas that kind of changed the
dynamic for some of the problemsthat you solve?
Michael Legge (28:23):
Firstly, with COVID I think a lot of people
who didn't really know whatanxiety was now I do,
unfortunately.
And also, so very, unfortunatelythe people who were suffering
with any kind of anxiety orstress that's, multiplied.
Generally we're living in a veryanxious, collectively we're very
(28:47):
anxious at the moment.
And.
And it's a very difficultsituation because yourself,
these things kind of spreads,the news, everyone's watching
the news and it's just, bad newsheadline after bad news
headline, after bad newsheadline.
And we're slightly addicted togetting the information and
we're processing thisinformation and.
(29:11):
And so I think we're glued tothe news much more than we would
ordinarily be.
And I think, with the wholeenvironmental crisis, that's
happening as well at the minutewith with Brexit, with there
seems to be a lot happening atonce.
And the absolute best thing Ithink people can do for sure is
(29:33):
to Is to really cultivate a morepositive, optimistic mindset.
It sounds at times very obvious,and it is very obvious, but at
the more positive and the moreoptimistic people can be, and
the more resilient they're goingto be, yourself might the most
resilient people in the world.
(29:55):
They all have one thing incommon and that's a positive
can-do mindset.
And people, yes are beingincredibly tested at the minute.
The people who were alreadyanxious with life are super
anxious.
The people who've never hadanxiety before are now
understanding what anxiety is.
And
Matt Garrow-Fisher (30:13):
I was going to ask about yeah.
Actual practices and routinesmaybe, or habits to people who
couldn't adopt to, consistentlylower anxiety.
And when we take yourself backto when you and your acting
career, there was that level ofanxiety.
That just, it just didn't goaway.
How can people.
Though with that level, whateverit is, if it's like burnout
(30:34):
level too, something that's alittle bit uncomfortable, how
can people consistently lowertheir, average level of anxiety?
Is there any regular habits thatthey can adopt disciplines,
things that they can learn andall of that kind of stuff, even,
how do they cultivate a positivemindset?
(30:55):
How do they do that?
Michael Legge (30:58):
Okay, brilliant.
So the first thing about anxietyfor me the first big kind of
principle, the first big idea onstarting to reduce your anxiety
is absolutely look into the pastand being aware and that you've
got through.
We all have, we've all gotthrough trauma, we've all got
through negative experiences andwe've all been through stressful
(31:22):
events.
And knowing that you'll getthrough it again, you just will
and having that knowledge andreminding yourself that we are
so much stronger than we canpossibly imagine.
We are so much more resilient.
Then we can imagine there's somuch more going on inside of us
and within us than we can everimagine.
(31:46):
And we mostly are going to beokay.
So having a very strong beliefthat everything is going to be
okay.
And that's not, that's not atoxic positivity that's reality,
99% of what goes on in our headswith worry and anxiety is
rubbish.
It's our own invention.
(32:07):
99% of it never happens.
So the other thing withbatteries, we being aware that
being aware of where yourfocuses.
And because we tend to get whatwe focus on.
So of course the more negativewe are.
Okay.
We're going to start noticinglots of negative things within
(32:27):
our environment and the morepositive we are, the same, we're
just going to notice much morepositive things.
At a point it very much is achoice you can decide to wake up
in the morning and set anintention.
I think that's a brilliantexercise to start with just
setting an intention of, whatI'm going to have a great day
today.
Whatever happens.
I'm going to do my best just toget through the day and try to
(32:49):
stay as positive as possible.
And I think there's a reallybrilliant exercise that I
learned called flip the word Xthat I do a lot with clients and
flip the word ifs is, and.
Anxiety and anxious thoughts andworry is often proceeded by us
asking ourselves, that littleinner critic, usually critical
(33:10):
voice that we have, but theinner voice will often ask what
if followed by a negative?
You know what, if I lose my job,what if I get sick?
What if
Matt Garrow-Fisher (33:20):
this it's the recipe for fair, right?
It's like the underlying formulafor fair.
Michael Legge (33:26):
It is it's the formula for fair.
So let's, let's change theformula and two, what if plus a
positive?
So what if, everything turns outokay, what if I can cope?
And I do get through this and.
It's a habit, of course.
And it takes a little bit ofit's a pattern that you can
(33:48):
develop, but if you every timeyou become conscious of what
effing plus a negative, if youcan flip that immediately to a,
what if positive, it's a habitto the more you do it.
And naturally you'll start goingto the positive.
And so that's one for sure.
That's a good one.
(34:09):
I'm a huge fan of meditation.
I'm a massive fan of meditationand there's so many different
types out there.
I personally do transcendental,but I'm a big fan of mindful
meditation as well.
The main kind of the big ideawith meditation will the way I
(34:29):
see it is We are absolutely notour thoughts.
Like absolutely not ourthoughts.
And it's a very dangerous thing.
I think when people startbelieving everything that they
think because as I said so muchof it is genuinely rubbish and
that's not being disparaging ordisrespectful to people.
It's just, it's biology.
(34:50):
A lot of it is just garbled,rubbish.
And so meditation does thiswonderful thing that it
disassociates and your thoughtsfrom you so that you can just
observe the and observing yourown thoughts.
The brilliant thing that happenseventually after, and a few
meditation sessions and it getsstronger, the more you do it is
(35:13):
You really are able to look atyour thoughts as separate to
you, and then they lose all oftheir power.
And I really good exercise toget started with is a, if you
close your eyes and you justimagine your thoughts as imagine
you're sitting on the side of aroad and your thoughts are cars,
(35:36):
lorries, and traffic, andthey're just driving past.
You can just sit for a fewminutes and just every thought
that comes into your head overthe next few minutes.
Not that we'll do it now, butover the next few minutes, you
just imagine, I thought drivespast here comes another one.
It's not driving past and herecomes another one.
(35:57):
It's driving past.
If you do this for a couple ofminutes, just every day, that's
enough meditation.
To start.
Cause we think meditation isjust about becoming conscious
that your thoughts are not, youthat's essentially what it is so
that, a large part of the brain
Matt Garrow-Fisher (36:13):
People can maybe adopt these practices at
what point.
Would you say clients come toyou for help and support,
whether that's for anxiety or tohelp them with their performance
in their career?
Like at what point do youtypically see people reach out
to you for help?
Michael Legge (36:35):
Okay.
So I would definitely say thoseknow there's three different
kind of timings.
When people come to me in termsof what they're experiencing,
when they come to me one willbe.
I've had enough, I know thatthis thing is really affecting
my work or really affecting myrelationships or really
(36:58):
affecting the quality of mylife.
And I might rock bottom and Ireally need help.
And in that.
Circumstance depending on howdeep it is and whether they need
to see, a psychotherapist or apsychologist.
I've a lot of people that Irecommend them to see if I feel
I can help them as a coach.
I absolutely will.
The second kind of group ofpeople that come to me, they're
(37:21):
all where.
They're aware that there'ssomething within them.
That's just holding them back.
It may not be it's a bit likethe way I was, it's not daily on
their mind, but they just knowthat.
It's a niche, it's I just saylife's maybe possibly by, and I
haven't really achievedeverything that I wanted.
(37:42):
And I know there's all of thiskind of talent in me, for these
other things that has never beenlaid out and, or, there's a
little bit of anxiety in me orI'm a bit worried, or I'm a bit
stressed about makingpresentations or I'm a bit
stressed about this.
And I really wish I wasn't, andI wish I was more positive and
more confident.
And then I have another set ofpeople that come to me who are,
(38:05):
it's all about the highperformance state they're doing
super well already, and theyjust want to I'm not going to
say the phrase crush it, butthey, but I just did, but they
want to, they want peakperformance.
And so those are the three kindof various that I work on.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (38:26):
Got it.
Got it.
Awesome.
My final question, Michael isnow I call someone that burns
from within they're living alife full of passion and
purposeful and they have balancefor all the things that are
important to them in life.
How would you, what's the onething do you think has made the
(38:47):
biggest difference for you toburn from within to live with
passion, purpose, and balance?
Michael Legge (38:52):
Wow.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (38:54):
And you can take your time.
A lot of people do.
Michael Legge (38:58):
It's such a great question.
I love that question.
Yes, I know exactly what.
A, when I understood the conceptthat I teach very early on when
I'm coaching people when I fullyunderstood the concept, that
there is always a pause between,external stimulus, something
(39:22):
happening and your reaction toit.
And in that pause, you have achoice as to how to behave.
As to whether to react to itnegatively or react to it
positively or be proactive.
And that blew my mind and stilldoes, because now I remember I
(39:46):
wrote on a sheet of paper yearsago that I don't feel unwell.
But I just feel that I'd love tobe in control of my own brand
100% of the time.
And and that concept reallyhelps with that.
Just knowing that whateverhappens to you in life, you're
(40:08):
always much more in control thanyou think.
And you can be much more incontrol, with just a little bit
of practice.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (40:18):
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's that concept of you're, youare not your thoughts.
And actually just take a momentjust to observe things and
things will pass and it took awhile for me to realize I did
iowaska and I was, I realizedthat I wasn't even my body,
there's a separation there andyeah.
(40:39):
That, that is actuallycomforting to know that you can
just observe things and not feellike you're being led.
Life is leading you, butactually you're in control.
But it, it requires some, somepractice and discipline and.
Educating yourself and yeah,that's made a huge difference to
my life as well.
So really interesting.
I'm fascinated particularly, weboth.
(41:01):
Of study to neuro-linguisticprogramming.
And one of the big components ofNLP is modeling modeling other
people, modeling people that youwant to replicate similar
results to and I think some, tobe honest, the ultimate form of
modeling that I've seen outsideof NLP is through acting whether
it's method acting or doing likea character assessment and
(41:24):
really getting into the mind ofa character.
If given where in COVID well, alot of countries are in
lockdown.
The UK is in full nationallockdown now.
Yeah.
Is there any particularcharacter or person that you
think you would like to methodact or get into their mind to
(41:46):
help with dealing with anxietyor dealing with this quite
challenging situation that manyof us are in with COVID is there
any particular Characters oreven people that, maybe role
models that people can start tothink about and get into that
step into their worlds in orderto deal with this COVID crisis,
Michael Legge (42:10):
want to know their burning question?
I immediately, I was thinking ofone person throughout,
throughout that and it's Justcause I think he's the wisest
person in the world and it'sDavid Attenborough.
And I think, cause he, it's wellknown, isn't it?
That all of his documentaries,part of the magic of it is.
(42:35):
Just this beautiful, soothingvoice that he has.
And that's him, that's hischaracter.
That's his love and his, thatenergy coming through the screen
and his passion and enthusiasmand intelligence and he's
articulate.
And and yeah, we need a lot moreof that in the world.
We need a lot of that right now.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (42:53):
I totally get that.
And with Attenborough, he's,he's lived a long life already.
I think he's 94 now and seeingthe world changed so much, been
through world Wars and economiccrisis and all of that.
But, there's something about himthat he's.
It's a calm wise old man that,that seen the world and he knows
(43:13):
that things can get better.
And taking this proactiveapproach to making, to finding
solutions, to making the worldbetter, even with all of these
challenges, become the calm oldman that with a strong voice, I
love it.
Where can people find.
You Michael contact you toinquire about coaching and or
(43:33):
acting and and, get in touchwith you.
How can they do that?
Michael Legge (43:39):
So you can check my website, the mind health
coach.com, and I'm on Instagramquite a bit at the mind health
coach, or you can always emailme if you ever want to get in
contact.
It'smichael@themindhealthcoach.com.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (43:57):
Love it.
Thank you so much, Michael.
It's been a, it's been a reallyinteresting interview talking
about like a lot of differenttopics from, acting,
transitioning, coachingmindfulness, David Attenborough
and thoroughly enjoyed it.
And thank you once again forjoining the show.
Michael Legge (44:16):
It's a pleasure.
I love to thanks a million, man.
Thank you.
Awesome.
Matt Garrow-Fisher (44:20):
If you want to learn more about how to
consistently deal with anxiety,please do check out Michael's
page.
I've included in the show notes.
He's truly a phenomenal coach.
I'm really has an incrediblelevel of skill and helping
actors and actually anyone withboth anxiety and achieving peak
(44:42):
performance.
By shifting their state.
And if you're unsure about whatto do next.
In your career.
Perhaps you're feelingconsistently stressed and can't
find a way out.
What first contact Michael,especially if you're an actor
and then start exploring whichdirection would make sense from
(45:03):
within you.
To live a more.
Passionate purposeful imbalancedlife.
Book a free consultation for my12 week career fulfillment
program.
It's based on a proven methodthat has helped hundreds of
people over the last 14 years tofind a new career path that
lights them up inside.
Just go to burn from within.comforward slash fulfilling career.
(45:29):
And book your free consultationwould be now to see if it's
right for you.
Stay updated with more inspiringinterviews by hitting the
subscribe button now on yourplayer for the burn from within
podcast.
Until next time.
Live with passion, purpose, andbalance.
And burn from within.
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