August 7, 2025 • 43 mins
Mastering B2B Sales with Petra Wagner: From Enterprise Exec to AI Coach
Join Marc Crosby and guest Petra Wagner, a B2B sales strategist with over 20 years of experience at Microsoft and IBM. Petra shares invaluable insights from her journey, including the challenges of transitioning from enterprise sales to helping startups achieve consistent revenue. Learn about the importance of personalized sales approaches, leveraging AI tools like her Petra AI, and essential sales training techniques. Gain expert advice on navigating price objections, stakeholder mapping, and the evolving role of AI in sales. Tune in for actionable tips on building a robust sales process and enhancing your sales strategy with real-world applications.
Petra Wagner is a B2B sales strategist and the author of the SalesBooster Framework — a no-fluff system that helps founders with zero sales experience land their first customers and build repeatable revenue. With over 20 years of experience leading B2B sales at Microsoft and IBM, and later working as a C-level executive and tech buyer in a traditional enterprise, Petra brings a rare dual perspective: she knows how to sell — and how buying decisions are really made.
She created SalesBooster to help early-stage founders build a sales engine they actually enjoy running — one that blends startup grit with enterprise strategy, and works even without a sales background. Through her free Petra AI Sales coach and her premium Traction Toolkit, Petra equips founders with the mindset, structure, and tools to go from pitch to close with confidence — and without the pressure of traditional sales tactics.
00:00 Introduction to Burn The Playbook
01:09 Rapid Fire Facts About Slovenia
02:53 Petra's Journey from Enterprise to Helping Founders
04:27 Challenges in Enterprise Sales Processes
05:28 The Importance of Sales Training
07:10 Adapting Sales Training for Experience Levels
09:14 Insights from a Buyer’s Perspective
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Views expressed are our own and do not represent any organizations
© 2025 Digital Rebels Consulting. All rights reserved.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_00 (00:00):
Every B2B podcast sounds the same.
Cookie cutter strategies,corporate buzzwords, high level
theory that sounds smart butchanges nothing.
Meanwhile, the real game changesare out there breaking every
rule in the playbook andcrushing it.
They're not following bestpractices.
They're building their own pathand winning in the ways that
experts said wouldn't work.
These are the rebels you need tohear from.
The ones with tactics you canactually use tomorrow.
(00:21):
This is Burn the Playbook.
Burn everything that's holdingyou back.
I'm Mark Crosby and this is Burnthe Playbook.
I'm honored to have Petra Wagneras our guest today.
Petra is a B2B sales strategistand author of the Sales Booster
Framework, a sales systemhelping founders go from great
(00:42):
product, no traction, toconsistent revenue.
With 20 plus years leading salesat Microsoft and IBM and later
buying tech as a C-level exec ina traditional enterprise, Petra
brings the rare perspective ofboth the buyer and the seller,
which I love about you.
She now helps founders sellsmarter with her AI coach Petra
(01:02):
AI and her paid attractiontoolkit welcome Petra
SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
hello nice to meet you
SPEAKER_00 (01:09):
all right before we start out today and hearing your
journey from enterprise to howyou're helping founders today I
wanted to do a quick rapid fireabout Slovenia because that's
where you're from and that'swhere you're calling from today
so I'm going to give you a fewrapid fire interesting tidbits
of information that I foundabout Slovenia so I heard that
bees are a big deal in Sloveniatrue or True.
(01:32):
And why is that?
SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
You know, it's, it's historical.
So basically they producesomething and they are very
valuable for us.
So it's, it's a craft here andit's a really healthy, healthy
stuff.
So yeah, we believe it'svaluable.
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
Gotcha.
I imagine the best honeyprobably comes from Slovenia.
Exactly.
Not just
SPEAKER_02 (01:51):
honey, but also the products from the honey, like,
you know, for the skin andeverything.
SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Very cool.
Also found out that the bestskiers are from Slovenia, true
or false?
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
Skiers.
Maybe they were.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Skiers.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
Skiers, they were.
Maybe.
Yeah, they were.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Okay.
Not today?
Today
SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
we have Luka Doncic, today Pivacar, Primož Roglic,
you know, guys.
But we have skiers as well,yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00 (02:17):
Okay.
So false.
Not skiing.
Maybe basketball.
Okay.
This one was interesting.
Tap water is so good you candrink it from the public
fountains.
SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
Yes.
Everywhere you can drink itnormally, yeah.
It's
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
interesting okay all right any other fun facts that i
missed
SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
yeah we are two million country and we have love
in the name so slovenia iswritten with love um so yeah we
have mountains to ski and wehave seaside so everything
packed in two million people
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
awesome hopefully i can make it there one day all
right good stuff and thank youfor the information so how did
you get started in sales youworked for microsoft and ibm so
how did you start fromenterprise to where you are
today as far as helpingfounders?
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
So basically, I started as a student in IBM.
As a coincidence, I wassearching for a job being a
competitive Latin American andballroom dancer.
And after my college degree, Isomehow decided to start working
and we have like student work.
So I started at IBM, continuedthere for, let's say, eight
years, and then moved toMicrosoft, having different
(03:26):
roles from, you sales leadroles, regional and of course
national.
And then I moved after 18 yearsof that.
I felt that I have to empowerany traditional company in
Slovenia.
So with the knowledge that Igained from the corporation for
the markets, from the team, fromleadership and everything, that
(03:49):
I can have traditional companyin the country to grow, to
modernize, to transform.
So I went to Sloveniantraditional company.
I've been there year and a half,something like that, starting
digital transformation and salestransformation of the company.
And then I moved to on my own.
So basically I'm now more thantwo years on my own, helping
(04:12):
startups and tech companies withsales, a little bit of
leadership, but mainly help themunpack, which seems to be
complex, but in reality, it'snot so complex, but it's work.
SPEAKER_00 (04:27):
Gotcha.
What is it about enterprises andtheir sales process that make it
complex or just bad habits thatthey can't seem to break?
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
I mean, basically, enterprises are big companies
with complex processes.
They have to follow some rules,but usually it's more about the
process than the outcome.
So they all focus on themethodologies, the processes, of
course, the compliance, it hasto be there.
They also teach people on that,so upskilling people on that.
(04:57):
And then the outcome is And inour case, if we talk about
sales, the buyer is a secondthought.
So yeah, this is something, youknow, we can take in portion to
startups, but not full.
And this is rigid for theenterprise.
Yeah.
So there are big ships.
They move slow.
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
It is, they move slow.
And I think in a lot of cases,you know, enterprise companies,
some provide training, somedon't provide training.
What do you find as far as justthe training processes of when
you're onboarding somebody thatjust doesn't work, you know, as
far as either my Microsoft, IBM,or even the companies that you
work with today, like what'sbroken as far as the sales
training process?
SPEAKER_02 (05:36):
I mean, I have to say that I love IBM sales
training school.
So IBM Global Sales School, I'vedone it in 2006 and 2007, and it
helped me a lot through career.
It was meant, and I stillbelieve probably it is, it gives
you proper onboarding.
It's not about product, let'ssay, shit leads and only
features and functions.
(05:57):
It's about how to present value,how to understand the value, how
to handle the objections, andreally try to understand the
business processes, the businessmetrics, the goals of the
customer.
I guess during the work, soduring seven, eight years, you
receive less and less debt.
(06:18):
There are some peaks when youreceive it again, but it depends
from the results points of viewand so on.
But what I see in others, let'ssay big companies, and I is
exactly that.
Yeah, they prefer productsheetlets, features, functions,
and everything about theproduct, which needs to be
there.
And they care less about thevalue for who is it, which
(06:41):
problems we are solving, youknow, everything what we teach
also startups for.
So they are all in love in theirproduct, which is fine.
But, you know, what is in it forme as a buyer?
So this is what I miss also inbig companies in sales training.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
So for sales training, I think most maybe
leaders or even companies thinkthat, you know, once you start a
job in sales, that's when youreceive sales training.
And maybe occasionally afterthat, you receive some
subsequent sales training.
So should the training be thesame for somebody who's in year
one as a person who's in year20?
I mean, I think these days, youknow, the markets are changing,
(07:20):
training's changing, AI iscomplicating at least a lot of
the sales-led processes.
So do we train everybody thesame or is the process a little
bit different for for anybodybased on experience what's your
what's your
SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
approach yeah you punched me it's not about you
know we shouldn't say experienceis relevance yeah so it maybe it
was like that in 2012 yeah thatpeople with experience um had
some some advantage but rightnow it's really about relevance
and as you said you know thereare some ai tools there are some
(07:54):
new approaches there are buyerswho are more empowered more
knowledgeable they know muchmore about us and yeah I see
this when when I teach when Icoach people actually I was
coaching IBMers in previousNovember the guys and the ladies
who are there for 30 years 20years yeah done this school that
(08:15):
I was mentioning before butsomehow There is some negative
connotation about the tools andthe noise around it because it
is the noise.
But I still think that therelevance because of the buyer
is there.
So if me as experienced seller,I still need to learn.
I still need to get andunderstand the tools to cut
(08:37):
through the noise so I can berelevant for the buyer because
otherwise they don't need me.
They have everything on theinternet.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Exactly.
And it's constantly evolving.
And I think that it doesn'tmatter if you have five years
experience or 50 yearsexperience you got to keep up
with the times constantly evolvecontinuous improvement keep up
with what's changing or else youmight get left behind
SPEAKER_02 (09:00):
and why is
SPEAKER_00 (09:01):
that
SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
because the buyer yeah the buyer is changing
that's why yeah it's not aboutus being obsolete it's about how
we as buyers are changing solet's accommodate to the one we
are serving yeah let's servethem properly
SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
exactly and you were a buyer before so I would love
to hear because I love theexperience of having you know
both sides of the table you knowin a prior role that I had I was
on one side of the table then Imoved to the other and it was
tremendously helpful just tounderstand the big picture and
the holistic view of how we canhelp each other so you know if
(09:34):
you've been on the buyer sideand now you're helping sellers
what's you know what's one thingthat you know buyers could tell
sellers to stop doing today thatthey just constantly do and then
whether it's you know selling tothem selling features and
benefits like what's an approachthat as a a buyer, you would
like sellers to do somethingdifferently.
Stop doing.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
Yeah.
I was shocked when I was abuyer.
It's hard to buy.
It's really hard to buy.
Although I came from beingtrained as a seller how to sell.
But then after 18 years, I wenton the other side and I thought,
oh, it's so easy to be buyer.
I already somehow know what Ineed to buy.
So I will just choose the bestoption and they will present me.
(10:18):
They will find my needs.
They will connect.
everything.
And, you know, of course, wehave the procurement, everything
is set.
So, yeah, it's simple.
Yeah.
And I know what decision makingprocesses in the company and so
on and so forth.
But in reality, it's far fromthat.
Basically, the first thing wasthat I was shocked about the
sellers, of course, because, youknow, I think I know how to
(10:41):
sell, at least I thought before.
And when they come to me, theywas like really presenting
features and functions and theywere presenting me like I know
everything.
I don't, you know, I have tofire, hire, discuss with my
boss.
I have so many other things onmy plate and they have like, I
don't know, 15 minutes with meor one hour with me and they
(11:02):
think I really know everything.
So these assumptions are reallybad.
So they go straight to featuresand functions and they give me,
they gave me every, every, everytime they gave me generic pitch,
you know?
So yeah, it is like generic tosay that, but when you come to I
don't know, I was in publishingand retail and they come and
(11:25):
present me how insurance works.
It's the same HR solution or thesame logistics solutions or
whatever, but it worksdifferently.
So take time, ask questions,attach them to your solution,
make case for me.
That's one thing.
It's really features andfunctions.
Then the other thing, when I wasa buyer and surprised me and I
(11:47):
had a role to make decision.
So it's not so easy.
Because as you know, and I heardand I read your LinkedIn and
everything, so there are between11 and 16 decision makers.
It's not one with the budget orthe one above.
There is really going internalpolitics around who will take
the budget, which project willbe priority, how we should make
(12:10):
it happen.
And also, if I have thisproject, what's the next project
that I will have?
So how these projects connectwith each other, of course, and
then the procurement andcompliance and everything but
also from internal politics it'shard work you know you cannot
just say okay i will decide thatand people below you or people
(12:32):
reporting to you will just sayyes they work there for a long
time they have their experiencethey will work with that text so
you better listen to them tocertain extent or you know find
consensus you know we know thisabout consensus buying and this
is what sellers also need toconsider It's not in my case,
this IT guy and then theprocurement maybe, but the
(12:55):
consensus because people nowwill not make decisions because
we fear of, you know, failure ormessing up or whatever.
And this is really becomingstrong in traditional.
You asked me before aboutenterprise companies.
This is strong factor.
So this consensus buying.
And in case of sellers, do yourstakeholder mapping, understand
(13:17):
who are champions.
This is not just theory, youknow, the map pick and the stake
stakeholder mapping and thosestuff.
This is real.
And this is also a shock for me,or at least eye-opening, how
this works in reality from theother side.
So when I teach, when I workwith sellers right now, let's do
the stakeholder mapping.
Let's understand fears, hopes,desires of each persona there,
(13:38):
the little one, the middle one,the whatever, yeah?
How they interact, who areblockers, who are mobilizers.
Again, I'm going into thecustomer challenger theory, but
it's so real, you know?
You have to them somehow.
And this is also the stuff thatI would recommend to sellers.
Do your homework.
It's not one decision maker thatyou will find out and the magic
(14:02):
will happen.
SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
No, there is no magic wand.
I think that in sales, a lot ofpeople out there, they probably
sell the magic wand, but youhave to understand that it's not
about just a straight line fromdiscovery to close and there's
some sort of articulate way thatyou need to close and some sort
of magic extroverted you know,answer, you know, to get
somebody to say yes, but it'svery complicated.
(14:25):
And I think that most of us knowthat I think, and tell me if I'm
right or wrong.
So a lot of the cases when Iever developed like a pitch
deck, you know, for a buyer, Ididn't develop it for the buyer.
I developed it for the entireorganization based on who I
thought that they were going topresent that pitch deck to after
I left the room.
So I had slides in there for theCFO.
I might have slides in there forsupply chain.
(14:46):
I might have slides for, youknow, the, you know,
procurements boss or whoeverelse might be involved in the
decision making process.
So was that a good approach?
And should others have thatsimilar approach as far as, you
know, talk about the featuresand the benefits at some point,
but also understand what's in itfor everybody else in that
decision making process?
SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
Yeah, I mean, that's right.
Yeah, you have to make thisdouble sell, because, you know,
we were trained how to sell.
But these decision makers werenever, unless they come from
such environment, but they werenever trained how to sell.
Yeah.
So we have to help them sell.
And there is where come theconnection let's say i'm i'm
mainly talking you know to itguys or to cyber security guys
(15:27):
or or ladies or and toprocurement and so on you know
and those guys were nevertrained to to to sell so they
need to connect their strategylike the company strategies is
let's say customer experience sothey have to improve the
customer experience what does itmean for it guy you know if they
have some central storage let'ssay they and they need to
(15:49):
connect it to customer orexperience.
unless they are trained or youask them as a seller, they just
need new storage because theprevious one is old.
It can fail.
You know, he will have a lot ofproblems and so on and so forth.
But if you connect the dots andsay, look, guy, but your central
POC system will not work orsomething like that.
And these will have a customerexperience issues.
(16:13):
And of course, the financialimpacts and so on.
We can connect that.
Of course, you have to take carehow you discuss that not to go
about them and so on.
you know, with the empathy, withthe questions and so forth.
But yeah, that's back to yourpoint.
We have to help them sellinternally.
I call it like a double sell.
So you as a seller can sell andthen have them do the internal
(16:36):
sell to the whoever is thedecision makers and whatever
KPIs they have.
Legal have one, HR has theothers, procurement.
And of course, the board membershave some others as well.
Yeah.
So let's connect the dots onthat pitch deck.
SPEAKER_00 (16:51):
Exactly.
And you have to do the same onyour side too.
I presume that you're referringto maybe something that I wrote
recently as far as just doingthe same process on the seller
side as you do on the buyingside.
So it's double work and you haveto understand that everybody has
to sign off on it at some pointalong the way.
And speaking of that, I guess,what happens when you find
(17:12):
somebody that's not willing tosign off on it?
And what if that person is maybenot obvious on your
decision-making map?
How do you, I guess, prepare forthat?
Or what sort of, I guess,tactics would you advise people
to either find that person orovercome that obstacle or
prevent that from happening bymaybe doing more homework up
front
SPEAKER_02 (17:30):
yeah of course i always suggest more homework
pre-work before we go there askwhoever you want to search
internet you know scrap whateverjust to do your pretty work
before also ask the tools likeperplexity chat gpt whatever
they know about you becausebuyers done this homework
already mainly yeah 80 of thembut in in in terms of blockers
(17:54):
yeah once are blockers that youknow and they hate your solution
or from whatever reason advicelet them go yeah let's think
about others but if there aresome people that you don't you
didn't identify yet and they arenot in the room let's start with
basic questions so dear customerlet's say that we agree now that
(18:14):
this will solve this and thisproblem for you in such amount
of time and you'll have such animpact who else will need to
confirm that or who else need tosee that or who else will have
an opinion on that on on whichpeople this solution will impact
if you implemented it you knowit's like if there are some it
solutions and there is cybersecurity guys and they are not
(18:37):
in the room probably you knowthey will say no it is cyber
security risk and you will haveto identify that the same goes
with compliance risk with gdprsin europe and so on so ask
questions who else beside you isimpacted and should should
understand or I should get thefeedback from.
So we can work together and helpyou go from point A to point B.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
Gotcha.
And I think that it's probably apossibility as why some deals
get stuck because you probablydon't ask those questions at the
very beginning as far as askingyour procurement person, your
buyer or whoever you initiatecontact with in the beginning,
understanding maybe what thatprocess looks like a little bit
clearer in the beginning asopposed to further that you get
down the line.
(19:22):
Because I think when you getdown the line and maybe
internally on their side, theyalready have some opinions that
are being formed.
And by that time, it's probablytoo late to start changing the
minds of your objectors orpeople that are not on board
with your product or solution ormaybe your company.
So just my own opinion, I thinkyou got to start that process
very early in the beginning andprobably find out who those
(19:44):
potential detractors might bebefore you even open up the
conversation to start talkingabout your business and asking
those questions.
I don't know.
That's the approach that I'vehad some times as far as just
getting as much knowledge as ican ahead of time you know
before i go down that pathbecause it might be too late to
you know try to fix things downthe road
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
on the way and offend people on the
SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
way
SPEAKER_02 (20:05):
with your boss
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
exactly exactly i think you know down the way at
least in some commodity marketsand some of the markets that
i've served before you get stuckon price and maybe you found the
same thing too and some of theenterprise deals or even
founder-led deals that you knowyou help salespeople you know
overcome so how do you overcomeprice objections and do you
(20:26):
address price early in theprocess and just tell them what
it is up front or do you waitand tell them later but what do
you do when you get stuck on aprice objection
SPEAKER_02 (20:35):
I didn't sell value right if I come to the price
objection yeah I mean it's ageneric answer yeah we have to
sell the value so if there is novalue nobody will pay anything
but you know with priceobjection is like that if this
is the little price at the endin negotiation there are
negotiation techniques andthat's fine but if we come to
the price objections probablythey didn't see value along the
(20:57):
way so of course what I seemainly it's not a holistic price
challenge but what I see withstartups is that they forget
because they are learning on theway that there are some other
pricing issues they didn'tconsider so either their sales
solution and they need some Idon't know some hardware behind
or some cloud services for thisto work or some device which
(21:21):
they didn't ask if the customerhas or, I don't know, some
integration that is needed andthey think it will just work,
you know, in enterprisecompanies.
I'm exaggerating a little bit.
But in every case, there is areal life experience where
something in the ecosystemneeds, brings additional costs.
Yeah.
And this is something that thendisturbs the customer because I
(21:45):
budget something and then alongthe way you come that, oh, you
need to buy, you know, this andthese subscriptions along the
way in order for this to work.
So I think this is the mainproblem that I see.
The price per set, it's handledduring the value discussion, and
then it's just the negotiationbased on culture that we see and
(22:06):
based on the procurementprocess, which is different in
different parts of the world.
But yeah, I would go the basicvalue discussion up front.
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Gotcha.
Easier said than done.
I think you just have to thinkabout these things along the
way.
I mean, it's just a bad habit, Ithink, that most people get into
as far as just selling thefeatures and the benefits and
not selling the value along theway.
And whether that's yourorganization or support services
or e-commerce solutions, supplychain, you have to kind of bring
in the big picture as far aswhat you can deliver as far as
(22:38):
your solution.
But I think that's where a lotof people get stuck on price.
SPEAKER_02 (22:41):
Yeah, but you know, again, they are stuck on price
because they didn't unpack whatvalue does it bring to this
person, to his KPI, to his orher business.
You know, it's really, it wasnot unpacked.
because they were so eager topresent features and functions
of their baby.
And they didn't ask, so theydidn't get answers.
And they didn't really connectbecause, you know, if you are
(23:04):
buying something, you alwaysimagine how do you buy, you
know?
We are all emotional buyers,also in B2B.
So if I will really achievesomething with that, I will work
on that hard in order to, youknow, to make this project
happen.
So I am a mobilizer.
So you have to identify if, youknow, what is in it for me.
and I will be your mobilizer.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Gotcha.
Let's talk a little bit about AIand sales.
Obviously, it's a hot topic thateveryone wants to talk about
these days.
And you took the initiative todevelop your own AI tool and
Petra AI.
So excited to unpack that alittle bit here about how you
came to the conclusion that, youknow, Petra AI was going to help
others.
And, you know, maybe Petra AIcan also help me with my, you
(23:46):
know, when I get stuck on price.
Could that help me there?
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
Yeah, I mean, of course it can, you know, it will
coach you.
basically this is you know it'snot some fancy schmancy AI tool
you know like startups are doingit's really having me in your
pocket yeah so I work withsellers with startup sellers who
and people who never beensellers yeah never trained to
sell so you know it's somethinglike sales is a craft yeah so
(24:14):
you have to work on it you haveto train it nobody was born
seller yeah maybe some forsomebody is easier but they
There are some basic principlesand you have to train them like
in any sports.
Yeah, we started with skiers, sothey have to train.
And I was thinking about how Ican clone myself.
(24:35):
So how I can help more startupfounders with some basic
guidance questions that I seecome along.
So when I was doing salesbooster framework, there are
three phases, nine steps, verysimple for each startup, you
know, because there is a mess.
They are doing ad hoc, they arerunning, you know, from
(24:55):
marketing agency to pitching toinvestors and so on.
So I gave them the basicframework that works.
And for that basic frameworks,they have to get some answers.
So go out, how to talk tocustomers, how to talk about
your value propositions, how todefine ideal customer, why
somebody is ideal customer, alsohow to handle objections, how to
(25:18):
qualify properly, you know, allthese things that we've been
doing for 20 years I packed intoPetra AI I trained her so I
really have this toughconversation with her and people
are helping me on that so shecan give you answers or help you
guide she's provocative shereally asks you so I see
(25:41):
founders when I work with themon longer projects they become
nervous you know because I'm notsatisfied with first answer they
gave me I can serve everybodysuper great yeah or now we will
go to five countries immediatelysuper great and she will ask you
pretty much the same questionsthat I do and she will also give
(26:02):
you more answers that I can giveyou because it's AI so it's
based on AI but it was trainedon sales booster framework on
challenger sell approaches onproper qualification and I think
you know for paying sales coachper hour when you start as a
(26:23):
startup you cannot afford andyou would like to work in the
middle of the night in themiddle in the morning you know
different time zones so I thinkPetra is perfect for that and if
you will ask her how to loseweight she will say no I don't
know that yeah go and askwhoever yeah so they will give
you generalistic answers she'ssales coach
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
yeah just a sales coach well it's cool to have a
24-7 sales coach I mean I thinkthat who would not want to have
a 24-7 coach of anything I meanI think I could probably use
that in my own personal life.
And maybe I need some othersorts of coaches that are like
that.
How do you, how do you see thatlike Petra AI and sorts of
solutions like this expandinginto other parts of business?
(27:05):
Can we replace other, I guess,people in the organization that
we might need 24 seven accessto?
Is there like a Petra AI that wecan use for like my sales
manager in case I have aquestion or like an operations
person, or can I clone like, oryeah, or maybe agents or one of
the other use cases at leastthat I thought, maybe you've
thought of this too, is like, atleast in the United States,
(27:26):
there's a lot of aging peoplethat are leaving the workforce
and like all that knowledge goesout the door with them, like if
they have 40 years experience.
So could we clone those peopleso they can kind of stay with
the organization to help us outas far as all that knowledge
before they leave and go playgolf?
I don't know.
Is that something that you'vethought of as far as other use
cases?
SPEAKER_02 (27:44):
Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking a lot about, you know,
how about AI in general, yeah?
You know, is it a bad thing or agood thing?
I'm a sociologist, yeah, so Ihave have also these ethical
questions and everything whichgoes along so yeah every
invention is something that canbring positive and negative but
in case of AI everything whichis repeatable it will be you
(28:04):
know like every invention it wasyou know start what was
repeatable and I think it's notmuch different how we can use it
I still think and I see thiswhen you know when I check the
questions of people who areusing Petra AI again you know it
can help you more if you knowmore so it will guide you more
(28:26):
if you ask questions that arereally painful so I always say
don't be nice with her yeah useher because it's there for you
and you know more you will askher tough questions more direct
answers you will receive moregeneralistic you are more
generalistic your answers willbe and this is in general I
(28:49):
think with AI yeah so we ashuman we still need to keep up
with that.
And from the sociologist'sperspective, our society, I
believe, will divide a littlebit.
Even bigger disruption, it willbe between those who improve and
grow and the one left behind.
So this is something we have totake care of.
(29:10):
I know it's a different topic,but you asked me about how I see
AI.
So I think you have to dosomething here in order to bring
the whole society and to upskillas much as possible, you know,
all the generations That's
SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
a great question.
And I think with that, how aresalespeople going to use AI to
screw up the buyer journey?
Like, how are we just going tototally dismantle, I guess, any
trust in the process by usingAI, whether that's just, I don't
know, automation or finding outinformation that is not useful
or not connecting with thepeople in a human way?
(29:46):
How are we going to screw it up?
SPEAKER_02 (29:48):
Yeah, I mean, as a seller, of course, the buyers
are more empowered, we have tobe more empowered, and we have
to be even morehyper-personalized, or however
we call this.
We need to cut through thenoise, we need to be
specialists, you know, evenmore, even harder, we need to
know, and this segment of one,how to answer the questions in
the right moment to the right,you know, it's really, I think
(30:11):
it's painful for sellers, yeah,because this is so, you know,
before it was like, when sales,you know, sales is really long
profession, yeah, when theycome, they arrive to the market,
and they explain and they haveknowledge and they show and
nobody knows.
Now the features functions,everything is there, the
comparison is there, everythingis there.
(30:31):
So you really have to niche tothe hyper-personalized message
and this is where AI can helpyou prepare and then you do your
magic.
So it's still a relationship,but just hyper-personalized
relationship.
You will really know this guy orlady to whom you will sell.
Otherwise you will be just, oneof them.
SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
That's a great aspect, I think, of AI and just
doing research.
I think, as I mentioned maybebefore, I do a tremendous amount
of research of the companies I'mtrying to do business with, the
people that are in there, allthe stakeholders.
Obviously, I think that ifyou're doing research today, you
have an advantage because youcan probably do it faster with
AI.
So everybody should be able toput on a better face, so to
(31:15):
speak, as far as knowing yourcustomers.
But I still see there's probablylimitations or maybe adopting to
new technologies that peoplestill just lag behind
historically so you know do yousee I guess that opportunity to
get to know your buyers betterby using AI at least just from a
knowledge download perspectivebefore we reach out to them
before we pick up the phone orbefore we you know see them in
(31:36):
person I feel like it has to bea hybrid of both it can't just
be all one or the other but Ifeel like with most new tools
that are out there we gocompletely overboard as far as
just you know AI everythingwe're just going to AI our
emails we're going to AI ourphone calls our outreach we're
going to auto to make this, thatand the other.
So what do you see it as likeaugmenting or do you think we're
(31:57):
just going to overdo it?
SPEAKER_02 (31:58):
Of course, I already see that there is people who are
overdoing it.
You probably receive emailswhich are spam, LinkedIn
messaging that is, you know, allover the place and you see it's
nothing in there, just, youknow, the process flowed from a
robot.
So we are already doing it.
There are also a lot of techtools which are out there and
(32:19):
are actually hurting sellers andthe sales process.
And the sellers who should learnhow to do it has negative
connotation exactly for that.
I know when I was trying toteach back in Microsoft, when
Sales Navigator came out and wehave this digital seller
(32:39):
empowerment or something likethat, people were really
defensive for that because itwas like everything are now
influencers and you areoffensive sending DM.
So there are some culturalthings that needs to go on And
there are some barriers that weare not allowed to cross, at
least yet, in differentcultures.
But there are still some stuffthat we have to progress as
(33:02):
sellers, yeah?
So my job, when I coach, I needto move some traditional sellers
into directions to use newtools.
But on the other side, I have toun-teach someone.
It's not just, you know, thetech will do everything and you
don't need to sell.
Wrong.
The basic craft of selling, youstill have to learn, yeah?
and the basic principles ofsocial interaction, with tech or
(33:26):
without tech.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
How do you teach founders and sales as far as
differentiation?
From my perspective, it's, youknow, number one, as far as what
you should lead with before youeven start talking about
features and benefits.
How do you weave that into PetraAI, sales booster?
Is that something that's acommon topic around your sales
training?
SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Of course, the differentiationis some of the key factors of
value proposition.
So how you differentiate to themanual tunes, to the
competition, to the existingstuff, to status quo, let's say,
or, you know, doing nothing.
And of course, to find your ownniche, why you will bring value.
And sometimes you bring valuebecause there are all tech
solutions.
Yeah.
(34:08):
So like Petra AI or some othersales coach or chat GPT, you
know, you can do it.
Yeah.
So what's the differentiator islike how I will do it, how I
will help you connect the dots,how I will do the package.
Or maybe it's the language.
Sometimes it's the availability.
So let's find why people cannotlive without your solution.
(34:30):
Let's find out what is a littlebit different.
So it's a process, you know, butit doesn't need to be a unique
solution.
It has to be a unique servicethat you are providing, not just
feature and functions.
A unique problem that you solvein a unique way, not just a
problem, in a unique way.
(34:51):
Or affordable or I don't know,the language way.
SPEAKER_00 (34:57):
But it starts with asking questions, right?
I mean, you have to figure outwhich one of those is going to
be the fit or a combination ofall of them, but you just have
to ask questions and ask morequestions until you feel tired
of asking questions.
So at least you can get all theanswers.
I know one of the best salestrainings that I ever did a long
time ago, I think we had to sitthere and ask questions for like
(35:18):
45 minutes to the person on theother side of the table.
And it was something that wasvery unnatural.
But the more you do it, the moreyou learn, the more comfortable
you get asking more questions tothe point of where, I don't
know, for me, I thought it wasvery effective.
But I think it's good trainingthat most people don't do, which
is asking question afterquestion after
SPEAKER_02 (35:35):
question.
Yeah, and you can eliminate thatby pre-work.
You can use the tech that isavailable to get answers before,
to ask all the tools that areavailable.
And then, you know, you can askthe relevant questions that you
didn't get answers in yourpre-work to the customer yeah so
they will not be you know theywill not hate you for you know
(35:56):
you just ask questions soprepare yourself do your
homework yeah
SPEAKER_00 (36:00):
yeah of course it has to be like most things it
has to be a hybrid of both agood mix and I think from a
sociologist standpoint or just ahuman standpoint you want to ask
questions so the other personfeels like you're interested in
learning more about them andtheir business and how you're
solving their problems so Idon't know like anything else
it's a balance right
SPEAKER_02 (36:18):
it's a
SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
balance exactly all right let's Let's move to our
most favorite segment, burn itor build it, at least my
favorite segment in thehousehold here.
This is a rapid fire segment asfar as the hot takes and sales
and marketing.
So we're just going to gothrough like 10 things and kind
of get your perspective on whatyou think we should burn and
what do you think we shouldbuild.
So we will start with industryconferences, burn it or build
(36:42):
it.
SPEAKER_02 (36:42):
Build it, yeah, but get ready before, not just go
there.
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
It's kind of like sales, right?
You do some prep, understandlike why you're going to go
there.
What people do you want?
A lot of people show up just toshow up and, you know, hand out
pens.
I don't know.
AI outbound at scale.
SPEAKER_02 (37:00):
Yeah.
I mean, I don't like it as youimagine.
Yeah.
I would say burn it because, youknow, it's, it's automated.
It's not personalized and, youknow, it's not there yet.
So no quality beats quantity.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Burn it.
All right.
What about gated content?
So content that's on a website,you might have to pay for it,
put in an email address.
Should it be gated, burn it orbuild it?
SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
I think it's a little bit outdated yet.
It depends on the business.
But overall, in generic, I wouldsay burn it because, you know,
you can receive value for freeand then do the funnel and, you
know, build it on pre-qualify.
I call this, you know, thequalification.
Somebody, they will come to you.
They will learn and burn it.
SPEAKER_00 (37:47):
Burn it.
Got it.
Some people say that foundersmake the best sales hires.
Burn it or build it?
SPEAKER_02 (37:53):
Build it.
For early stage founders, itneeds to be sellers because they
understand the value.
They know why they build it.
And somebody else cannot say thevalue that they can.
So I believe that founder-ledsales is the most important
step.
So build it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:13):
Gotcha.
Build it, official.
Build it.
What about cold calling?
SPEAKER_02 (38:17):
yeah I know that people don't like it but warming
up yeah so do the pre-work andthen still call I wouldn't burn
it I would burn the automatedcold calling yeah with the guy
hello and no pre-work of coursebut if you do your targeting ICP
and warming up and somethingbefore if the process is there I
(38:38):
would go to calling is it stillcold calling or is it just warm
calling
SPEAKER_00 (38:44):
warm calling we'll go with no decision on that one
so it depends Okay, it depends.
SPEAKER_02 (38:49):
It depends.
This is the consultant answer,so it depends.
SPEAKER_00 (38:53):
Gotcha.
It depends.
Exactly.
Some people say that website isyour top salesperson.
Burn it or build it?
SPEAKER_02 (38:59):
Build it.
Yeah.
There is the value that peoplesee and go and check.
SPEAKER_00 (39:04):
Gotcha.
And on these websites, numberseven, public pricing on your
website.
I mean, it depends as far asyour business, of course, but is
it better to have just thattransparency up front or not?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:16):
I mean, if you have a product that to sell, then
have transparency.
If everything is customizable,then obviously you cannot have
it,
SPEAKER_00 (39:24):
yeah.
Okay.
Founder origin stories.
So in a lot of cases, whetheryou're founder-led, you know,
we're talking about that webuilt it in a garage and look at
us now, or I think even in somelegacy companies that I came
from, we're 150 years old.
Let's talk about our originstory from 1802.
Burn it or build it?
SPEAKER_02 (39:43):
When you say it like that, then burn it.
But in reality, build foundersstory just don't go into you
know the whole emotion andinfluencer stuff it's not about
again it's not about you as afounder it's about the problem
that you're solving so
SPEAKER_00 (39:58):
yeah exactly so maybe pare it down a little bit
just not five
SPEAKER_02 (40:02):
slides it's not just about
SPEAKER_00 (40:04):
you okay webinars for legion
SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
burn it I think this is a little bit it was too much
and also in covid you know itwas you know really important
and now it's so many other stuffthat unless it's really targeted
and you really have something tosay.
In general, if we would have awebinar about how to talk to
buyers nowadays, I don't thinkanybody will join us.
(40:29):
Burn it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:32):
Gotcha.
I think burning is leading this.
Sales and marketing, combinethose to make one RevOps leader.
Most people say sales andmarketing are not aligned, so do
we combine it into one?
SPEAKER_02 (40:43):
Yeah, build it.
I was working in the companybeing on the buyer side i need
this as one people are sodisconnected and you know we
sellers never liked marketersbut we are one so yeah let's
have end-to-end process let'sbuild it yes marketing what is
called it's marketing i'd readin a book
SPEAKER_00 (41:06):
okay very cool nice well that's the finale there for
burn it or build it i thinkthat's a good one to end on and
as far as ending on one finalthought from you as far as just
one takeaway that i'm a vicepresident of sale in my car
listening to this podcast and Iwant to implement something
today, what would you advise tothem as far as something that
they can help their team rollout to be better at sales?
SPEAKER_02 (41:28):
Yeah, I thought this was, you know, this was more
common than I see it now inreality.
But actually introduce like dealreview power hour, not like just
pipe deal review or dealinspection, but this critical
thinking collaborative sellingbecause we learn from each other
and And it will sync your team,also marketing and sales, and it
(41:51):
will focus your sellers.
So you can build on that tocoach.
So I would go with a kind ofsales cadence.
It's not just from thecorporation stuff, but I really
see it work.
It's deal review power hour.
And I see this with startupswith whom I work like on a
regular basis.
We need to go through pipebecause they believe something
(42:12):
is relevant.
It's not they didn't do thequalifying.
They are waiting for waiting,you know.
And it doesn't really matter ifyou are long-time sellers.
Me, I still have to go throughmy deals.
Yeah, I have to qualify,re-qualify.
Yeah, of course, I'm on my own.
But basically, yeah, if I wouldbe a VP of big or small
(42:34):
organization or a startup, dodeal review power hour.
Yeah, and coach and learn fromeach other.
It will help you build yourplaybook and be more efficient
on the field later on.
SPEAKER_00 (42:48):
Love it.
Deal Review Power Hour.
You heard it here first on Burnthe Playbook in order to build
the playbook.
Thank you, Petra.
SPEAKER_02 (42:57):
You're
SPEAKER_00 (42:59):
welcome.
All right.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (43:00):
Bye-bye.
Ciao.
SPEAKER_00 (43:02):
That's how you burn the playbook.
If this conversation fired youup, don't let it in here.
Subscribe wherever you get yourpodcasts.
Share this episode with someonewho's tired of playing by the
old rules.
And if you're ready to challengeyour own sales approach, let's
connect.
Find me on LinkedIn at MarkCrosby or head to
digitalrebelsconsulting.comUntil next week, keep burning
(43:23):
what's not working and keepbuilding what is.
Every B2B podcast sounds the same.
Cookie cutter strategies,corporate buzzwords, high level
theory that sounds smart butchanges nothing.
Meanwhile, the real game changesare out there breaking every
rule in the playbook andcrushing it.
They're not following bestpractices.
They're building their own pathand winning in the ways that
experts said wouldn't work.
These are the rebels you need tohear from.
The ones with tactics you canactually use tomorrow.
(00:21):
This is Burn the Playbook.
Burn everything that's holdingyou back.
I'm Mark Crosby and this is Burnthe Playbook.
I'm honored to have Petra Wagneras our guest today.
Petra is a B2B sales strategistand author of the Sales Booster
Framework, a sales systemhelping founders go from great
(00:42):
product, no traction, toconsistent revenue.
With 20 plus years leading salesat Microsoft and IBM and later
buying tech as a C-level exec ina traditional enterprise, Petra
brings the rare perspective ofboth the buyer and the seller,
which I love about you.
She now helps founders sellsmarter with her AI coach Petra
(01:02):
AI and her paid attractiontoolkit welcome Petra
SPEAKER_02 (01:06):
hello nice to meet you
SPEAKER_00 (01:09):
all right before we start out today and hearing your
journey from enterprise to howyou're helping founders today I
wanted to do a quick rapid fireabout Slovenia because that's
where you're from and that'swhere you're calling from today
so I'm going to give you a fewrapid fire interesting tidbits
of information that I foundabout Slovenia so I heard that
bees are a big deal in Sloveniatrue or True.
(01:32):
And why is that?
SPEAKER_02 (01:34):
You know, it's, it's historical.
So basically they producesomething and they are very
valuable for us.
So it's, it's a craft here andit's a really healthy, healthy
stuff.
So yeah, we believe it'svaluable.
SPEAKER_00 (01:47):
Gotcha.
I imagine the best honeyprobably comes from Slovenia.
Exactly.
Not just
SPEAKER_02 (01:51):
honey, but also the products from the honey, like,
you know, for the skin andeverything.
SPEAKER_00 (01:56):
Yeah.
Awesome.
Very cool.
Also found out that the bestskiers are from Slovenia, true
or false?
SPEAKER_02 (02:02):
Skiers.
Maybe they were.
SPEAKER_00 (02:04):
Skiers.
SPEAKER_02 (02:04):
Skiers, they were.
Maybe.
Yeah, they were.
SPEAKER_00 (02:06):
Okay.
Not today?
Today
SPEAKER_02 (02:09):
we have Luka Doncic, today Pivacar, Primož Roglic,
you know, guys.
But we have skiers as well,yeah, of course.
SPEAKER_00 (02:17):
Okay.
So false.
Not skiing.
Maybe basketball.
Okay.
This one was interesting.
Tap water is so good you candrink it from the public
fountains.
SPEAKER_02 (02:26):
Yes.
Everywhere you can drink itnormally, yeah.
It's
SPEAKER_00 (02:29):
interesting okay all right any other fun facts that i
missed
SPEAKER_02 (02:35):
yeah we are two million country and we have love
in the name so slovenia iswritten with love um so yeah we
have mountains to ski and wehave seaside so everything
packed in two million people
SPEAKER_00 (02:49):
awesome hopefully i can make it there one day all
right good stuff and thank youfor the information so how did
you get started in sales youworked for microsoft and ibm so
how did you start fromenterprise to where you are
today as far as helpingfounders?
SPEAKER_02 (03:03):
So basically, I started as a student in IBM.
As a coincidence, I wassearching for a job being a
competitive Latin American andballroom dancer.
And after my college degree, Isomehow decided to start working
and we have like student work.
So I started at IBM, continuedthere for, let's say, eight
years, and then moved toMicrosoft, having different
(03:26):
roles from, you sales leadroles, regional and of course
national.
And then I moved after 18 yearsof that.
I felt that I have to empowerany traditional company in
Slovenia.
So with the knowledge that Igained from the corporation for
the markets, from the team, fromleadership and everything, that
(03:49):
I can have traditional companyin the country to grow, to
modernize, to transform.
So I went to Sloveniantraditional company.
I've been there year and a half,something like that, starting
digital transformation and salestransformation of the company.
And then I moved to on my own.
So basically I'm now more thantwo years on my own, helping
(04:12):
startups and tech companies withsales, a little bit of
leadership, but mainly help themunpack, which seems to be
complex, but in reality, it'snot so complex, but it's work.
SPEAKER_00 (04:27):
Gotcha.
What is it about enterprises andtheir sales process that make it
complex or just bad habits thatthey can't seem to break?
SPEAKER_02 (04:35):
I mean, basically, enterprises are big companies
with complex processes.
They have to follow some rules,but usually it's more about the
process than the outcome.
So they all focus on themethodologies, the processes, of
course, the compliance, it hasto be there.
They also teach people on that,so upskilling people on that.
(04:57):
And then the outcome is And inour case, if we talk about
sales, the buyer is a secondthought.
So yeah, this is something, youknow, we can take in portion to
startups, but not full.
And this is rigid for theenterprise.
Yeah.
So there are big ships.
They move slow.
SPEAKER_00 (05:16):
It is, they move slow.
And I think in a lot of cases,you know, enterprise companies,
some provide training, somedon't provide training.
What do you find as far as justthe training processes of when
you're onboarding somebody thatjust doesn't work, you know, as
far as either my Microsoft, IBM,or even the companies that you
work with today, like what'sbroken as far as the sales
training process?
SPEAKER_02 (05:36):
I mean, I have to say that I love IBM sales
training school.
So IBM Global Sales School, I'vedone it in 2006 and 2007, and it
helped me a lot through career.
It was meant, and I stillbelieve probably it is, it gives
you proper onboarding.
It's not about product, let'ssay, shit leads and only
features and functions.
(05:57):
It's about how to present value,how to understand the value, how
to handle the objections, andreally try to understand the
business processes, the businessmetrics, the goals of the
customer.
I guess during the work, soduring seven, eight years, you
receive less and less debt.
(06:18):
There are some peaks when youreceive it again, but it depends
from the results points of viewand so on.
But what I see in others, let'ssay big companies, and I is
exactly that.
Yeah, they prefer productsheetlets, features, functions,
and everything about theproduct, which needs to be
there.
And they care less about thevalue for who is it, which
(06:41):
problems we are solving, youknow, everything what we teach
also startups for.
So they are all in love in theirproduct, which is fine.
But, you know, what is in it forme as a buyer?
So this is what I miss also inbig companies in sales training.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:57):
So for sales training, I think most maybe
leaders or even companies thinkthat, you know, once you start a
job in sales, that's when youreceive sales training.
And maybe occasionally afterthat, you receive some
subsequent sales training.
So should the training be thesame for somebody who's in year
one as a person who's in year20?
I mean, I think these days, youknow, the markets are changing,
(07:20):
training's changing, AI iscomplicating at least a lot of
the sales-led processes.
So do we train everybody thesame or is the process a little
bit different for for anybodybased on experience what's your
what's your
SPEAKER_02 (07:32):
approach yeah you punched me it's not about you
know we shouldn't say experienceis relevance yeah so it maybe it
was like that in 2012 yeah thatpeople with experience um had
some some advantage but rightnow it's really about relevance
and as you said you know thereare some ai tools there are some
(07:54):
new approaches there are buyerswho are more empowered more
knowledgeable they know muchmore about us and yeah I see
this when when I teach when Icoach people actually I was
coaching IBMers in previousNovember the guys and the ladies
who are there for 30 years 20years yeah done this school that
(08:15):
I was mentioning before butsomehow There is some negative
connotation about the tools andthe noise around it because it
is the noise.
But I still think that therelevance because of the buyer
is there.
So if me as experienced seller,I still need to learn.
I still need to get andunderstand the tools to cut
(08:37):
through the noise so I can berelevant for the buyer because
otherwise they don't need me.
They have everything on theinternet.
SPEAKER_00 (08:46):
Exactly.
And it's constantly evolving.
And I think that it doesn'tmatter if you have five years
experience or 50 yearsexperience you got to keep up
with the times constantly evolvecontinuous improvement keep up
with what's changing or else youmight get left behind
SPEAKER_02 (09:00):
and why is
SPEAKER_00 (09:01):
that
SPEAKER_02 (09:01):
because the buyer yeah the buyer is changing
that's why yeah it's not aboutus being obsolete it's about how
we as buyers are changing solet's accommodate to the one we
are serving yeah let's servethem properly
SPEAKER_00 (09:14):
exactly and you were a buyer before so I would love
to hear because I love theexperience of having you know
both sides of the table you knowin a prior role that I had I was
on one side of the table then Imoved to the other and it was
tremendously helpful just tounderstand the big picture and
the holistic view of how we canhelp each other so you know if
(09:34):
you've been on the buyer sideand now you're helping sellers
what's you know what's one thingthat you know buyers could tell
sellers to stop doing today thatthey just constantly do and then
whether it's you know selling tothem selling features and
benefits like what's an approachthat as a a buyer, you would
like sellers to do somethingdifferently.
Stop doing.
SPEAKER_02 (09:55):
Yeah.
I was shocked when I was abuyer.
It's hard to buy.
It's really hard to buy.
Although I came from beingtrained as a seller how to sell.
But then after 18 years, I wenton the other side and I thought,
oh, it's so easy to be buyer.
I already somehow know what Ineed to buy.
So I will just choose the bestoption and they will present me.
(10:18):
They will find my needs.
They will connect.
everything.
And, you know, of course, wehave the procurement, everything
is set.
So, yeah, it's simple.
Yeah.
And I know what decision makingprocesses in the company and so
on and so forth.
But in reality, it's far fromthat.
Basically, the first thing wasthat I was shocked about the
sellers, of course, because, youknow, I think I know how to
(10:41):
sell, at least I thought before.
And when they come to me, theywas like really presenting
features and functions and theywere presenting me like I know
everything.
I don't, you know, I have tofire, hire, discuss with my
boss.
I have so many other things onmy plate and they have like, I
don't know, 15 minutes with meor one hour with me and they
(11:02):
think I really know everything.
So these assumptions are reallybad.
So they go straight to featuresand functions and they give me,
they gave me every, every, everytime they gave me generic pitch,
you know?
So yeah, it is like generic tosay that, but when you come to I
don't know, I was in publishingand retail and they come and
(11:25):
present me how insurance works.
It's the same HR solution or thesame logistics solutions or
whatever, but it worksdifferently.
So take time, ask questions,attach them to your solution,
make case for me.
That's one thing.
It's really features andfunctions.
Then the other thing, when I wasa buyer and surprised me and I
(11:47):
had a role to make decision.
So it's not so easy.
Because as you know, and I heardand I read your LinkedIn and
everything, so there are between11 and 16 decision makers.
It's not one with the budget orthe one above.
There is really going internalpolitics around who will take
the budget, which project willbe priority, how we should make
(12:10):
it happen.
And also, if I have thisproject, what's the next project
that I will have?
So how these projects connectwith each other, of course, and
then the procurement andcompliance and everything but
also from internal politics it'shard work you know you cannot
just say okay i will decide thatand people below you or people
(12:32):
reporting to you will just sayyes they work there for a long
time they have their experiencethey will work with that text so
you better listen to them tocertain extent or you know find
consensus you know we know thisabout consensus buying and this
is what sellers also need toconsider It's not in my case,
this IT guy and then theprocurement maybe, but the
(12:55):
consensus because people nowwill not make decisions because
we fear of, you know, failure ormessing up or whatever.
And this is really becomingstrong in traditional.
You asked me before aboutenterprise companies.
This is strong factor.
So this consensus buying.
And in case of sellers, do yourstakeholder mapping, understand
(13:17):
who are champions.
This is not just theory, youknow, the map pick and the stake
stakeholder mapping and thosestuff.
This is real.
And this is also a shock for me,or at least eye-opening, how
this works in reality from theother side.
So when I teach, when I workwith sellers right now, let's do
the stakeholder mapping.
Let's understand fears, hopes,desires of each persona there,
(13:38):
the little one, the middle one,the whatever, yeah?
How they interact, who areblockers, who are mobilizers.
Again, I'm going into thecustomer challenger theory, but
it's so real, you know?
You have to them somehow.
And this is also the stuff thatI would recommend to sellers.
Do your homework.
It's not one decision maker thatyou will find out and the magic
(14:02):
will happen.
SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
No, there is no magic wand.
I think that in sales, a lot ofpeople out there, they probably
sell the magic wand, but youhave to understand that it's not
about just a straight line fromdiscovery to close and there's
some sort of articulate way thatyou need to close and some sort
of magic extroverted you know,answer, you know, to get
somebody to say yes, but it'svery complicated.
(14:25):
And I think that most of us knowthat I think, and tell me if I'm
right or wrong.
So a lot of the cases when Iever developed like a pitch
deck, you know, for a buyer, Ididn't develop it for the buyer.
I developed it for the entireorganization based on who I
thought that they were going topresent that pitch deck to after
I left the room.
So I had slides in there for theCFO.
I might have slides in there forsupply chain.
(14:46):
I might have slides for, youknow, the, you know,
procurements boss or whoeverelse might be involved in the
decision making process.
So was that a good approach?
And should others have thatsimilar approach as far as, you
know, talk about the featuresand the benefits at some point,
but also understand what's in itfor everybody else in that
decision making process?
SPEAKER_02 (15:04):
Yeah, I mean, that's right.
Yeah, you have to make thisdouble sell, because, you know,
we were trained how to sell.
But these decision makers werenever, unless they come from
such environment, but they werenever trained how to sell.
Yeah.
So we have to help them sell.
And there is where come theconnection let's say i'm i'm
mainly talking you know to itguys or to cyber security guys
(15:27):
or or ladies or and toprocurement and so on you know
and those guys were nevertrained to to to sell so they
need to connect their strategylike the company strategies is
let's say customer experience sothey have to improve the
customer experience what does itmean for it guy you know if they
have some central storage let'ssay they and they need to
(15:49):
connect it to customer orexperience.
unless they are trained or youask them as a seller, they just
need new storage because theprevious one is old.
It can fail.
You know, he will have a lot ofproblems and so on and so forth.
But if you connect the dots andsay, look, guy, but your central
POC system will not work orsomething like that.
And these will have a customerexperience issues.
(16:13):
And of course, the financialimpacts and so on.
We can connect that.
Of course, you have to take carehow you discuss that not to go
about them and so on.
you know, with the empathy, withthe questions and so forth.
But yeah, that's back to yourpoint.
We have to help them sellinternally.
I call it like a double sell.
So you as a seller can sell andthen have them do the internal
(16:36):
sell to the whoever is thedecision makers and whatever
KPIs they have.
Legal have one, HR has theothers, procurement.
And of course, the board membershave some others as well.
Yeah.
So let's connect the dots onthat pitch deck.
SPEAKER_00 (16:51):
Exactly.
And you have to do the same onyour side too.
I presume that you're referringto maybe something that I wrote
recently as far as just doingthe same process on the seller
side as you do on the buyingside.
So it's double work and you haveto understand that everybody has
to sign off on it at some pointalong the way.
And speaking of that, I guess,what happens when you find
(17:12):
somebody that's not willing tosign off on it?
And what if that person is maybenot obvious on your
decision-making map?
How do you, I guess, prepare forthat?
Or what sort of, I guess,tactics would you advise people
to either find that person orovercome that obstacle or
prevent that from happening bymaybe doing more homework up
front
SPEAKER_02 (17:30):
yeah of course i always suggest more homework
pre-work before we go there askwhoever you want to search
internet you know scrap whateverjust to do your pretty work
before also ask the tools likeperplexity chat gpt whatever
they know about you becausebuyers done this homework
already mainly yeah 80 of thembut in in in terms of blockers
(17:54):
yeah once are blockers that youknow and they hate your solution
or from whatever reason advicelet them go yeah let's think
about others but if there aresome people that you don't you
didn't identify yet and they arenot in the room let's start with
basic questions so dear customerlet's say that we agree now that
(18:14):
this will solve this and thisproblem for you in such amount
of time and you'll have such animpact who else will need to
confirm that or who else need tosee that or who else will have
an opinion on that on on whichpeople this solution will impact
if you implemented it you knowit's like if there are some it
solutions and there is cybersecurity guys and they are not
(18:37):
in the room probably you knowthey will say no it is cyber
security risk and you will haveto identify that the same goes
with compliance risk with gdprsin europe and so on so ask
questions who else beside you isimpacted and should should
understand or I should get thefeedback from.
So we can work together and helpyou go from point A to point B.
SPEAKER_00 (19:02):
Gotcha.
And I think that it's probably apossibility as why some deals
get stuck because you probablydon't ask those questions at the
very beginning as far as askingyour procurement person, your
buyer or whoever you initiatecontact with in the beginning,
understanding maybe what thatprocess looks like a little bit
clearer in the beginning asopposed to further that you get
down the line.
(19:22):
Because I think when you getdown the line and maybe
internally on their side, theyalready have some opinions that
are being formed.
And by that time, it's probablytoo late to start changing the
minds of your objectors orpeople that are not on board
with your product or solution ormaybe your company.
So just my own opinion, I thinkyou got to start that process
very early in the beginning andprobably find out who those
(19:44):
potential detractors might bebefore you even open up the
conversation to start talkingabout your business and asking
those questions.
I don't know.
That's the approach that I'vehad some times as far as just
getting as much knowledge as ican ahead of time you know
before i go down that pathbecause it might be too late to
you know try to fix things downthe road
SPEAKER_02 (20:02):
on the way and offend people on the
SPEAKER_00 (20:04):
way
SPEAKER_02 (20:05):
with your boss
SPEAKER_00 (20:06):
exactly exactly i think you know down the way at
least in some commodity marketsand some of the markets that
i've served before you get stuckon price and maybe you found the
same thing too and some of theenterprise deals or even
founder-led deals that you knowyou help salespeople you know
overcome so how do you overcomeprice objections and do you
(20:26):
address price early in theprocess and just tell them what
it is up front or do you waitand tell them later but what do
you do when you get stuck on aprice objection
SPEAKER_02 (20:35):
I didn't sell value right if I come to the price
objection yeah I mean it's ageneric answer yeah we have to
sell the value so if there is novalue nobody will pay anything
but you know with priceobjection is like that if this
is the little price at the endin negotiation there are
negotiation techniques andthat's fine but if we come to
the price objections probablythey didn't see value along the
(20:57):
way so of course what I seemainly it's not a holistic price
challenge but what I see withstartups is that they forget
because they are learning on theway that there are some other
pricing issues they didn'tconsider so either their sales
solution and they need some Idon't know some hardware behind
or some cloud services for thisto work or some device which
(21:21):
they didn't ask if the customerhas or, I don't know, some
integration that is needed andthey think it will just work,
you know, in enterprisecompanies.
I'm exaggerating a little bit.
But in every case, there is areal life experience where
something in the ecosystemneeds, brings additional costs.
Yeah.
And this is something that thendisturbs the customer because I
(21:45):
budget something and then alongthe way you come that, oh, you
need to buy, you know, this andthese subscriptions along the
way in order for this to work.
So I think this is the mainproblem that I see.
The price per set, it's handledduring the value discussion, and
then it's just the negotiationbased on culture that we see and
(22:06):
based on the procurementprocess, which is different in
different parts of the world.
But yeah, I would go the basicvalue discussion up front.
SPEAKER_00 (22:16):
Gotcha.
Easier said than done.
I think you just have to thinkabout these things along the
way.
I mean, it's just a bad habit, Ithink, that most people get into
as far as just selling thefeatures and the benefits and
not selling the value along theway.
And whether that's yourorganization or support services
or e-commerce solutions, supplychain, you have to kind of bring
in the big picture as far aswhat you can deliver as far as
(22:38):
your solution.
But I think that's where a lotof people get stuck on price.
SPEAKER_02 (22:41):
Yeah, but you know, again, they are stuck on price
because they didn't unpack whatvalue does it bring to this
person, to his KPI, to his orher business.
You know, it's really, it wasnot unpacked.
because they were so eager topresent features and functions
of their baby.
And they didn't ask, so theydidn't get answers.
And they didn't really connectbecause, you know, if you are
(23:04):
buying something, you alwaysimagine how do you buy, you
know?
We are all emotional buyers,also in B2B.
So if I will really achievesomething with that, I will work
on that hard in order to, youknow, to make this project
happen.
So I am a mobilizer.
So you have to identify if, youknow, what is in it for me.
and I will be your mobilizer.
SPEAKER_00 (23:26):
Gotcha.
Let's talk a little bit about AIand sales.
Obviously, it's a hot topic thateveryone wants to talk about
these days.
And you took the initiative todevelop your own AI tool and
Petra AI.
So excited to unpack that alittle bit here about how you
came to the conclusion that, youknow, Petra AI was going to help
others.
And, you know, maybe Petra AIcan also help me with my, you
(23:46):
know, when I get stuck on price.
Could that help me there?
SPEAKER_02 (23:50):
Yeah, I mean, of course it can, you know, it will
coach you.
basically this is you know it'snot some fancy schmancy AI tool
you know like startups are doingit's really having me in your
pocket yeah so I work withsellers with startup sellers who
and people who never beensellers yeah never trained to
sell so you know it's somethinglike sales is a craft yeah so
(24:14):
you have to work on it you haveto train it nobody was born
seller yeah maybe some forsomebody is easier but they
There are some basic principlesand you have to train them like
in any sports.
Yeah, we started with skiers, sothey have to train.
And I was thinking about how Ican clone myself.
(24:35):
So how I can help more startupfounders with some basic
guidance questions that I seecome along.
So when I was doing salesbooster framework, there are
three phases, nine steps, verysimple for each startup, you
know, because there is a mess.
They are doing ad hoc, they arerunning, you know, from
(24:55):
marketing agency to pitching toinvestors and so on.
So I gave them the basicframework that works.
And for that basic frameworks,they have to get some answers.
So go out, how to talk tocustomers, how to talk about
your value propositions, how todefine ideal customer, why
somebody is ideal customer, alsohow to handle objections, how to
(25:18):
qualify properly, you know, allthese things that we've been
doing for 20 years I packed intoPetra AI I trained her so I
really have this toughconversation with her and people
are helping me on that so shecan give you answers or help you
guide she's provocative shereally asks you so I see
(25:41):
founders when I work with themon longer projects they become
nervous you know because I'm notsatisfied with first answer they
gave me I can serve everybodysuper great yeah or now we will
go to five countries immediatelysuper great and she will ask you
pretty much the same questionsthat I do and she will also give
(26:02):
you more answers that I can giveyou because it's AI so it's
based on AI but it was trainedon sales booster framework on
challenger sell approaches onproper qualification and I think
you know for paying sales coachper hour when you start as a
(26:23):
startup you cannot afford andyou would like to work in the
middle of the night in themiddle in the morning you know
different time zones so I thinkPetra is perfect for that and if
you will ask her how to loseweight she will say no I don't
know that yeah go and askwhoever yeah so they will give
you generalistic answers she'ssales coach
SPEAKER_00 (26:45):
yeah just a sales coach well it's cool to have a
24-7 sales coach I mean I thinkthat who would not want to have
a 24-7 coach of anything I meanI think I could probably use
that in my own personal life.
And maybe I need some othersorts of coaches that are like
that.
How do you, how do you see thatlike Petra AI and sorts of
solutions like this expandinginto other parts of business?
(27:05):
Can we replace other, I guess,people in the organization that
we might need 24 seven accessto?
Is there like a Petra AI that wecan use for like my sales
manager in case I have aquestion or like an operations
person, or can I clone like, oryeah, or maybe agents or one of
the other use cases at leastthat I thought, maybe you've
thought of this too, is like, atleast in the United States,
(27:26):
there's a lot of aging peoplethat are leaving the workforce
and like all that knowledge goesout the door with them, like if
they have 40 years experience.
So could we clone those peopleso they can kind of stay with
the organization to help us outas far as all that knowledge
before they leave and go playgolf?
I don't know.
Is that something that you'vethought of as far as other use
cases?
SPEAKER_02 (27:44):
Yeah, I mean, I'm thinking a lot about, you know,
how about AI in general, yeah?
You know, is it a bad thing or agood thing?
I'm a sociologist, yeah, so Ihave have also these ethical
questions and everything whichgoes along so yeah every
invention is something that canbring positive and negative but
in case of AI everything whichis repeatable it will be you
(28:04):
know like every invention it wasyou know start what was
repeatable and I think it's notmuch different how we can use it
I still think and I see thiswhen you know when I check the
questions of people who areusing Petra AI again you know it
can help you more if you knowmore so it will guide you more
(28:26):
if you ask questions that arereally painful so I always say
don't be nice with her yeah useher because it's there for you
and you know more you will askher tough questions more direct
answers you will receive moregeneralistic you are more
generalistic your answers willbe and this is in general I
(28:49):
think with AI yeah so we ashuman we still need to keep up
with that.
And from the sociologist'sperspective, our society, I
believe, will divide a littlebit.
Even bigger disruption, it willbe between those who improve and
grow and the one left behind.
So this is something we have totake care of.
(29:10):
I know it's a different topic,but you asked me about how I see
AI.
So I think you have to dosomething here in order to bring
the whole society and to upskillas much as possible, you know,
all the generations That's
SPEAKER_00 (29:24):
a great question.
And I think with that, how aresalespeople going to use AI to
screw up the buyer journey?
Like, how are we just going tototally dismantle, I guess, any
trust in the process by usingAI, whether that's just, I don't
know, automation or finding outinformation that is not useful
or not connecting with thepeople in a human way?
(29:46):
How are we going to screw it up?
SPEAKER_02 (29:48):
Yeah, I mean, as a seller, of course, the buyers
are more empowered, we have tobe more empowered, and we have
to be even morehyper-personalized, or however
we call this.
We need to cut through thenoise, we need to be
specialists, you know, evenmore, even harder, we need to
know, and this segment of one,how to answer the questions in
the right moment to the right,you know, it's really, I think
(30:11):
it's painful for sellers, yeah,because this is so, you know,
before it was like, when sales,you know, sales is really long
profession, yeah, when theycome, they arrive to the market,
and they explain and they haveknowledge and they show and
nobody knows.
Now the features functions,everything is there, the
comparison is there, everythingis there.
(30:31):
So you really have to niche tothe hyper-personalized message
and this is where AI can helpyou prepare and then you do your
magic.
So it's still a relationship,but just hyper-personalized
relationship.
You will really know this guy orlady to whom you will sell.
Otherwise you will be just, oneof them.
SPEAKER_00 (30:54):
That's a great aspect, I think, of AI and just
doing research.
I think, as I mentioned maybebefore, I do a tremendous amount
of research of the companies I'mtrying to do business with, the
people that are in there, allthe stakeholders.
Obviously, I think that ifyou're doing research today, you
have an advantage because youcan probably do it faster with
AI.
So everybody should be able toput on a better face, so to
(31:15):
speak, as far as knowing yourcustomers.
But I still see there's probablylimitations or maybe adopting to
new technologies that peoplestill just lag behind
historically so you know do yousee I guess that opportunity to
get to know your buyers betterby using AI at least just from a
knowledge download perspectivebefore we reach out to them
before we pick up the phone orbefore we you know see them in
(31:36):
person I feel like it has to bea hybrid of both it can't just
be all one or the other but Ifeel like with most new tools
that are out there we gocompletely overboard as far as
just you know AI everythingwe're just going to AI our
emails we're going to AI ourphone calls our outreach we're
going to auto to make this, thatand the other.
So what do you see it as likeaugmenting or do you think we're
(31:57):
just going to overdo it?
SPEAKER_02 (31:58):
Of course, I already see that there is people who are
overdoing it.
You probably receive emailswhich are spam, LinkedIn
messaging that is, you know, allover the place and you see it's
nothing in there, just, youknow, the process flowed from a
robot.
So we are already doing it.
There are also a lot of techtools which are out there and
(32:19):
are actually hurting sellers andthe sales process.
And the sellers who should learnhow to do it has negative
connotation exactly for that.
I know when I was trying toteach back in Microsoft, when
Sales Navigator came out and wehave this digital seller
(32:39):
empowerment or something likethat, people were really
defensive for that because itwas like everything are now
influencers and you areoffensive sending DM.
So there are some culturalthings that needs to go on And
there are some barriers that weare not allowed to cross, at
least yet, in differentcultures.
But there are still some stuffthat we have to progress as
(33:02):
sellers, yeah?
So my job, when I coach, I needto move some traditional sellers
into directions to use newtools.
But on the other side, I have toun-teach someone.
It's not just, you know, thetech will do everything and you
don't need to sell.
Wrong.
The basic craft of selling, youstill have to learn, yeah?
and the basic principles ofsocial interaction, with tech or
(33:26):
without tech.
SPEAKER_00 (33:29):
How do you teach founders and sales as far as
differentiation?
From my perspective, it's, youknow, number one, as far as what
you should lead with before youeven start talking about
features and benefits.
How do you weave that into PetraAI, sales booster?
Is that something that's acommon topic around your sales
training?
SPEAKER_02 (33:47):
Yeah, yeah.
Of course, the differentiationis some of the key factors of
value proposition.
So how you differentiate to themanual tunes, to the
competition, to the existingstuff, to status quo, let's say,
or, you know, doing nothing.
And of course, to find your ownniche, why you will bring value.
And sometimes you bring valuebecause there are all tech
solutions.
Yeah.
(34:08):
So like Petra AI or some othersales coach or chat GPT, you
know, you can do it.
Yeah.
So what's the differentiator islike how I will do it, how I
will help you connect the dots,how I will do the package.
Or maybe it's the language.
Sometimes it's the availability.
So let's find why people cannotlive without your solution.
(34:30):
Let's find out what is a littlebit different.
So it's a process, you know, butit doesn't need to be a unique
solution.
It has to be a unique servicethat you are providing, not just
feature and functions.
A unique problem that you solvein a unique way, not just a
problem, in a unique way.
(34:51):
Or affordable or I don't know,the language way.
SPEAKER_00 (34:57):
But it starts with asking questions, right?
I mean, you have to figure outwhich one of those is going to
be the fit or a combination ofall of them, but you just have
to ask questions and ask morequestions until you feel tired
of asking questions.
So at least you can get all theanswers.
I know one of the best salestrainings that I ever did a long
time ago, I think we had to sitthere and ask questions for like
(35:18):
45 minutes to the person on theother side of the table.
And it was something that wasvery unnatural.
But the more you do it, the moreyou learn, the more comfortable
you get asking more questions tothe point of where, I don't
know, for me, I thought it wasvery effective.
But I think it's good trainingthat most people don't do, which
is asking question afterquestion after
SPEAKER_02 (35:35):
question.
Yeah, and you can eliminate thatby pre-work.
You can use the tech that isavailable to get answers before,
to ask all the tools that areavailable.
And then, you know, you can askthe relevant questions that you
didn't get answers in yourpre-work to the customer yeah so
they will not be you know theywill not hate you for you know
(35:56):
you just ask questions soprepare yourself do your
homework yeah
SPEAKER_00 (36:00):
yeah of course it has to be like most things it
has to be a hybrid of both agood mix and I think from a
sociologist standpoint or just ahuman standpoint you want to ask
questions so the other personfeels like you're interested in
learning more about them andtheir business and how you're
solving their problems so Idon't know like anything else
it's a balance right
SPEAKER_02 (36:18):
it's a
SPEAKER_00 (36:20):
balance exactly all right let's Let's move to our
most favorite segment, burn itor build it, at least my
favorite segment in thehousehold here.
This is a rapid fire segment asfar as the hot takes and sales
and marketing.
So we're just going to gothrough like 10 things and kind
of get your perspective on whatyou think we should burn and
what do you think we shouldbuild.
So we will start with industryconferences, burn it or build
(36:42):
it.
SPEAKER_02 (36:42):
Build it, yeah, but get ready before, not just go
there.
SPEAKER_00 (36:47):
It's kind of like sales, right?
You do some prep, understandlike why you're going to go
there.
What people do you want?
A lot of people show up just toshow up and, you know, hand out
pens.
I don't know.
AI outbound at scale.
SPEAKER_02 (37:00):
Yeah.
I mean, I don't like it as youimagine.
Yeah.
I would say burn it because, youknow, it's, it's automated.
It's not personalized and, youknow, it's not there yet.
So no quality beats quantity.
SPEAKER_00 (37:14):
Burn it.
All right.
What about gated content?
So content that's on a website,you might have to pay for it,
put in an email address.
Should it be gated, burn it orbuild it?
SPEAKER_02 (37:25):
I think it's a little bit outdated yet.
It depends on the business.
But overall, in generic, I wouldsay burn it because, you know,
you can receive value for freeand then do the funnel and, you
know, build it on pre-qualify.
I call this, you know, thequalification.
Somebody, they will come to you.
They will learn and burn it.
SPEAKER_00 (37:47):
Burn it.
Got it.
Some people say that foundersmake the best sales hires.
Burn it or build it?
SPEAKER_02 (37:53):
Build it.
For early stage founders, itneeds to be sellers because they
understand the value.
They know why they build it.
And somebody else cannot say thevalue that they can.
So I believe that founder-ledsales is the most important
step.
So build it.
SPEAKER_00 (38:13):
Gotcha.
Build it, official.
Build it.
What about cold calling?
SPEAKER_02 (38:17):
yeah I know that people don't like it but warming
up yeah so do the pre-work andthen still call I wouldn't burn
it I would burn the automatedcold calling yeah with the guy
hello and no pre-work of coursebut if you do your targeting ICP
and warming up and somethingbefore if the process is there I
(38:38):
would go to calling is it stillcold calling or is it just warm
calling
SPEAKER_00 (38:44):
warm calling we'll go with no decision on that one
so it depends Okay, it depends.
SPEAKER_02 (38:49):
It depends.
This is the consultant answer,so it depends.
SPEAKER_00 (38:53):
Gotcha.
It depends.
Exactly.
Some people say that website isyour top salesperson.
Burn it or build it?
SPEAKER_02 (38:59):
Build it.
Yeah.
There is the value that peoplesee and go and check.
SPEAKER_00 (39:04):
Gotcha.
And on these websites, numberseven, public pricing on your
website.
I mean, it depends as far asyour business, of course, but is
it better to have just thattransparency up front or not?
Yeah.
SPEAKER_02 (39:16):
I mean, if you have a product that to sell, then
have transparency.
If everything is customizable,then obviously you cannot have
it,
SPEAKER_00 (39:24):
yeah.
Okay.
Founder origin stories.
So in a lot of cases, whetheryou're founder-led, you know,
we're talking about that webuilt it in a garage and look at
us now, or I think even in somelegacy companies that I came
from, we're 150 years old.
Let's talk about our originstory from 1802.
Burn it or build it?
SPEAKER_02 (39:43):
When you say it like that, then burn it.
But in reality, build foundersstory just don't go into you
know the whole emotion andinfluencer stuff it's not about
again it's not about you as afounder it's about the problem
that you're solving so
SPEAKER_00 (39:58):
yeah exactly so maybe pare it down a little bit
just not five
SPEAKER_02 (40:02):
slides it's not just about
SPEAKER_00 (40:04):
you okay webinars for legion
SPEAKER_02 (40:08):
burn it I think this is a little bit it was too much
and also in covid you know itwas you know really important
and now it's so many other stuffthat unless it's really targeted
and you really have something tosay.
In general, if we would have awebinar about how to talk to
buyers nowadays, I don't thinkanybody will join us.
(40:29):
Burn it.
SPEAKER_00 (40:32):
Gotcha.
I think burning is leading this.
Sales and marketing, combinethose to make one RevOps leader.
Most people say sales andmarketing are not aligned, so do
we combine it into one?
SPEAKER_02 (40:43):
Yeah, build it.
I was working in the companybeing on the buyer side i need
this as one people are sodisconnected and you know we
sellers never liked marketersbut we are one so yeah let's
have end-to-end process let'sbuild it yes marketing what is
called it's marketing i'd readin a book
SPEAKER_00 (41:06):
okay very cool nice well that's the finale there for
burn it or build it i thinkthat's a good one to end on and
as far as ending on one finalthought from you as far as just
one takeaway that i'm a vicepresident of sale in my car
listening to this podcast and Iwant to implement something
today, what would you advise tothem as far as something that
they can help their team rollout to be better at sales?
SPEAKER_02 (41:28):
Yeah, I thought this was, you know, this was more
common than I see it now inreality.
But actually introduce like dealreview power hour, not like just
pipe deal review or dealinspection, but this critical
thinking collaborative sellingbecause we learn from each other
and And it will sync your team,also marketing and sales, and it
(41:51):
will focus your sellers.
So you can build on that tocoach.
So I would go with a kind ofsales cadence.
It's not just from thecorporation stuff, but I really
see it work.
It's deal review power hour.
And I see this with startupswith whom I work like on a
regular basis.
We need to go through pipebecause they believe something
(42:12):
is relevant.
It's not they didn't do thequalifying.
They are waiting for waiting,you know.
And it doesn't really matter ifyou are long-time sellers.
Me, I still have to go throughmy deals.
Yeah, I have to qualify,re-qualify.
Yeah, of course, I'm on my own.
But basically, yeah, if I wouldbe a VP of big or small
(42:34):
organization or a startup, dodeal review power hour.
Yeah, and coach and learn fromeach other.
It will help you build yourplaybook and be more efficient
on the field later on.
SPEAKER_00 (42:48):
Love it.
Deal Review Power Hour.
You heard it here first on Burnthe Playbook in order to build
the playbook.
Thank you, Petra.
SPEAKER_02 (42:57):
You're
SPEAKER_00 (42:59):
welcome.
All right.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_02 (43:00):
Bye-bye.
Ciao.
SPEAKER_00 (43:02):
That's how you burn the playbook.
If this conversation fired youup, don't let it in here.
Subscribe wherever you get yourpodcasts.
Share this episode with someonewho's tired of playing by the
old rules.
And if you're ready to challengeyour own sales approach, let's
connect.
Find me on LinkedIn at MarkCrosby or head to
digitalrebelsconsulting.comUntil next week, keep burning
(43:23):
what's not working and keepbuilding what is.
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