14. Crowdfunding Success with Andrew Lowen

Episode Transcript
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Crystal (00:08):
Do you feel like you are a good marketer? No? Yes? In
this episode, we meet withAndrew Loewen where we discuss
how you probably know a lot moreabout marketing than you
actually realized. Stay tuned tofind out more.

Eric (00:26):
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Business Boost Hour
podcast. My name is Eric Beals,and I'm the vice president of
BNI Escondido.

Crystal (00:36):
And my name is Krystal Privette, the president of BNI
Escondido, and welcome to thesingle CEU podcast.

Eric (00:43):
And, today, we have

Andrew Lowen (00:45):
Superman. Superman. I I'm, so, yeah, my
name is Andrew Loewen. I runNext Level Web, and I have fun
doing it. I'm the biggest nerdout of all y'all that are
watching this podcast, and, I dodigital marketing.
So

Eric (00:59):
And you also have your own podcast. Can you see how he
just, like, jumped right intothat? Most everyone's like, what
do I say? What do I do? He'sjust like, okay.
Let's go. Let's get right intoit.

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric (01:08):
That's great. And, what what's your what's your podcast?

So I I run a podcast called Crowdfunding
Nerds. It is a podcast aboutcrowdfunding an idea. So when
you have a really great idea andno money, you go to
crowdfunding. It's a a systemthat allows you to, present your
idea before lots of people. Inessence, lots of end users that
might be interested in, inessence, pre ordering the

(01:33):
product.
And thereby, if enough people dothat, you actually bring the
idea to life. So I brought aboard game to kickstarter,
dotcom, which is one of thesecrowdfunding websites. I raised
$314,000 for that board game. Iwas able to make I was able to
actually finish that game tomake a physical edition, order
5,000 units of of the game andand and all of that. So, there

(01:55):
are lots of nerds

Crystal (01:57):
living

in their parents' basements with really great
ideas

Eric (01:59):
Wow.

That just don't have funding. And so that's
that's a great way to get

Eric (02:05):
the idea. What a cool industry. And such such it's
such a unique one as well too.

Crystal (02:09):
Superman fashion. Just swooping in and saving the
nerds.

That's right. Yeah.

Eric (02:13):
Their

Crystal (02:13):
own house and then taking a mom in a different way.

Eric (02:17):
Yeah. So So move move from the basement up to the attic or
master bedroom. I don't know. Aslong as it's upward and upward.
You

know? Yep. Yep. Yeah. So it's, it's an
interesting, combination ofclients that I serve because
that originally around so I'vebeen in business since 2009.
I started my business part time,alongside of what I was
currently doing, which was I wasgoing to be an EMT, firefighter,
you know, event was the eventualcareer path.

Eric (02:44):
Mhmm.

And I knew firefighters had side gigs,
oftentimes businesses. And so Igot into this business selling
vitamins part time.

Eric (02:53):
You know, a lot of people

are familiar with multi level marketing. And, but
this business had they wereinvolved in every, like,
multibillion dollar industry.They tried to find a way to be
involved in it. And one of themwas web design. So web design
was a huge, huge thing.
And, you know, at the times,again, 2009, so like building a
website was a big deal. Yeah.Like if you could build 1.

(03:14):
Right? And so, I sold them.
I started selling websites. Andit was a lot easier. In fact, it
was about the same amount ofdifficulty to say, this is a $50
bottle of vitamins and convinceyou to buy this as it was a
$2,000 website. It's it's likethe same level of difficulty.
And I'm like, I would rathermake more money than less.
So, let's try this. And, hadenough success at it that I

(03:37):
eventually decided to quit whatI was doing and just take it
full time. I just entire Ibecame an EMT. I started working
for, Tri City Hospital inOceanside. And then I just quit
everything cold turkey afterafter that and went full bore
into selling websites.
And I wasn't even the one thatmade them. I just simply, in

(03:58):
essence, tried to connect the 2parties. Mhmm. But over time, I
found that people, you know, itjust it didn't take me very long
to realize that the reasonpeople were paying me money,
because I was the one thatpocketed money and I would, you
know, had a sub in essence,subbed out web design. The
reason that people would pay meis because they trusted me, that
I would make sure Yeah.

(04:18):
That they got the product thatthey, you know, paid for and
that sort of thing. And if theydidn't trust me, I couldn't I
couldn't get them to trust in mycompany that I represented
without also getting them totrust in me and my integrity and
who I was and that I would thatI would fight for them and that
sort of thing. You know? Mhmm.Yep.
And so, fast forward, what isthat? 15 years, you know, over

(04:40):
15 years now. And then I run adigital marketing agency. I have
a staff of 8, and, we work inseveral different verticals. One
of them is service basedbusinesses.
Another one is product basedbusinesses. And it's funny
because plumbers and, solarcompanies and lots of clients

(05:01):
that you guys know, buteverything kind of boils down to
service based business. There'sa way to sell service based
business, and then there's acertain way to sell product
based businesses. And there'sabout 85% of those that are the
same. So between the 2.
And only the it's the last 15%that is, what makes you stay in

(05:21):
business. You know?

Eric (05:22):
When you say the 8585 percent of of the the same, you
mean, like, the themethodologies are the same
between, between

Yeah. So, like, when you think about it, you
have, every business needscustomers. You have to have
somebody that buys the thingthat you make. Mhmm. So you have
to do something of value.
You have to communicate thevalue, and then you have to
convince somebody that they thatthey need it. Or find somebody
that's already this is what Itry to recommend is find
somebody that already knows theyneed it, and just present them

(05:50):
with the solution. Right? Youdon't need to say like, Crystal,
are you thirsty? You know?
Here's the water. It's verynice. Look at it. Sparkle in
this beautiful glass. It's like,you might say, I'm thirsty.
And I was like, I have asolution. You know? That's
that's the way I like to sell.Mhmm. So, it's, it's we're sold
to so much.
When we just you drive down thestreet, like, you you block it

(06:12):
out. Whenever you go into thecenter of a town, you see
billboards everywhere, you see

Crystal (06:16):
Bombarded with it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So your brain is just like,
instead of letting you getassaulted, I'm just gonna like
block this out. So you don't seethe Coca Cola logo on top of the
umbrella.
You don't see the AllstateInsurance billboard. You don't
see, all of those things. Butyou're you're exposed to on
average. Like, if you go througha drive, I mean, it just in a
day, you're exposed to anaverage of about 47, different,

(06:40):
ad pieces.

Eric (06:41):
Just Well, yeah, I I I Well, that's not even turning on
your phone. Yeah. Yeah. Not evenI believe it. And just But you
know what?
What's interesting so itactually kind of, like, sparked
something some like a, a memoryfor me that and I'm kinda
curious on your your thoughtthoughts, on this actually. And

(07:02):
that is so so one, I I I think,you know, we're we're marketed
to and and sold to every day,but we don't really realize it.
And that's probably, like, thebest kind. Like Yeah. Feels like
you're being sold to.

Have you been told that you're a good salesman?

Eric (07:19):
No. I've been told I'm a bad salesman. Okay.

So if you And that

Eric (07:21):
and and when I've been told that, I was like, you know
what? I don't think I want youas a client now because if
you're gonna be this much of abrat, I don't know about that.
It's like, I'm I'm an engineer.Okay? Like, this is my thing.
I can sell, but I'm just like, Idon't know.

It's not

Eric (07:34):
it's not it's not my my favorite thing thing thing

to do.

Eric (07:37):
I just wanna you know, me, I'm more along the lines of this
is what I have to offer, and I'mI'm and and this is how I think
it might be able to help you andsuch. But, you know What

Crystal (07:46):
if they said you were a good salesman?

It means you're a bad salesman. So it means they
outed you as a salesman.

Eric (07:51):
No. I've heard I've heard people tell me straight up. Like
like like, you need to work onyour sales. And I'm just like,
you need to work on yourattitude, buddy. But, Yeah.
But, but yeah. So I

like, the the the idea behind selling stuff is
that you want to find people youdon't wanna convince somebody to
sells, to buy something. Yeah.You want to find somebody that's
already interested in buying andpresent them with your stuff.
You know?

Crystal (08:14):
And that's motivational instead of transactional.

Right. It's it's, and in the end, you're you're
helping people get what theyneed, and it helps you feel good
about yourself. Even if it'ssomething dumb, Like, an
important thing.

Crystal (08:25):
With BNI. Like Yeah. We're sending a referral. If
it's the right fit, then you'relike, yay. It worked for
everybody.

Right.

Eric (08:31):
Mhmm.

Yeah. Yeah. In a lot of ways, I want to know you
know, there's there's that, VCP.

Crystal (08:36):
Mhmm.

There's, know, like, trust. You know, a lot of
different acronyms that we useto try to explain things. But

Eric (08:41):
What is know, like, trust?

So that's actually a really interesting one because
I I need to get to know who youare. I need to grow to actually
like you

Eric (08:49):
Mhmm.

Before I'm willing to trust you. So when I come and
find, you know, let's say wehave a plumber or we have
somebody that has a professionor a dentist Mhmm. Something
that's relatively easy for me tounderstand Mhmm. I
compartmentalize them and I say,okay, you're a plumber, or
you're a dentist or whatever.And then I I need but I don't
really, I'm not ready to referthat person yet.

Eric (09:10):
Mhmm.

I need to I personally need to know who they
are. You know, I've been amember of BNI for a very long
time. I wanna say since, like,2012. And so that's been going
on 12, 13 years now. And I wantto know who that person is.
I wanna know about their family.I wanna know about their kids. I
wanna know about what they do.They need to know what I I mean,
you meet with me for about 2minutes. You know, I like board

(09:32):
games and jujitsu and marketingstuff

Eric (09:34):
and Mhmm.

And whatever. It doesn't take very long. But, for

Eric (09:38):
a good year those things you know, I think those things
are gonna naturally you youknow, people who already do
those things, you're gonnaimmediately make us like, a, a
much stronger connection withthose people Right. Right away,
which is sounds like the kind ofpeople you wanna connect with
anyways.

Yeah. Right? Other And another thing is that people
that are looking to buysomething are also looking to
support worthy causes. They'relooking to, help people in need.
They're you know, like JoelOsteen is, so one one person is
very good at at selling stuff.
That guy, he said that a smilein fact, he actually was just

(10:15):
quoting from from anotherstatistic that he heard
probably. But a smile is moreinfluential than a $5,000 check.
That's what he said. And Ibelieve him because that guy's
got one heck of a smile. Big oldbunny teeth and whatnot.
And I believe it. In fact, whenI help my clients sell, in

(10:38):
regard to the product basedside, and when you need to raise
money that you don't have inorder to make something that is
your dream, asking or saying youneed people's help is a big
deal. Don't undervalue saying,you know, just you don't have to
like come as like a very humblein a humble way, but it's like,
we are building somethingtogether and it won't happen

(11:00):
without you. Mhmm. That is avery, very powerful way to say,
come join my tribe.
We can do something specialtogether, but you're just asking
for help. It's really whatyou're doing.

Eric (11:09):
Well, you know, what's interesting about that is I
think, you know, when you askfor that, you're you're you're
getting people engaged and andand involved. And when when they
have that we've actually talkedabout that this before on this
podcast, like, as people as youkinda get involved with, like, a
BNI chapter, you you kind of youyou get more engaged with it and
you just get better at, like, atcontributing more or sending

(11:33):
more referrals.

Crystal (11:33):
Personal buy in. Yeah.

Eric (11:35):
Right. On the and so the I think that's where a lot of the,
like, the benefits actually comefrom, from volunteering, for
example. Yeah. And but the samething happens at my church as
well too. So, like like, we wewe we try to involve people at,
like, we have something calledHeart of Compassion.
That's a that's a, like acharity event that we do that

(11:57):
that our church does, and it's,and and it's a we we we found
that people start engaging andconnecting with other a lot more
members a lot more when theystart helping out at things like
that.

Yeah. Yep.

Eric (12:10):
And so, I I think, yeah, I I I think that that's that's a
really powerful thing to askpeople of. Yeah.

Definitely. So, yeah, when you are talking with
someone, a lot of the sellinglike you mentioned, Crystal,
relational selling. Yep. Whenyou build a relationship, you
you must build some kind ofrelationship, some kind of
rapport before you ask them fora check. Right?
And, one of them is just, I'mtrying to understand what it is
that you're looking for. Youknow? Like, if you if you come
to me, and I'm a plumber, let'ssay, and you're like, I need

(12:41):
you. I shouldn't be like, I'llbe over on Tuesday. My services
are $100 an hour.
You know? I need I shouldprobably ask why. You know? What
do you need?

Crystal (12:50):
What supplies do I need?

Yeah. Or That's prepared. What is wrong that
that makes you say you need aplumber? You know, like, well,
I've got water sticking out, youknow, just shooting out, or or
like a big stain on my wall thatjust keeps getting bigger or
Mhmm. You know, that kind ofthing.
And, or the bathtub fell throughthe ceiling into the 1st floor.
You know, tell me what is wrong.And then I can say, ah, I know
what's going on. Or you say, Ithink my water heater needs

(13:14):
replacement. I would ask why.
You know, I'm gonna try to tryto understand. And if I can
understand and restate to youthe reason that you'll buy my
stuff, you know, and you say,okay. I I I need, my water
heater replaced because it'sold, and I just, you know, I'm
upgrading my house, and I'mdoing this and that. So it would
so that's why I need the waterheater replaced. So as a

(13:35):
plumber, I might say, well, shedoesn't need her water heater
replaced.
You know? Like, it works still.Like, I've I've discerned by our
conversation that your waterheater works. But you're gonna
buy a water heater from somebodybecause you wanna upgrade it.
And it's like, have Crystal,have you, thought about tankless
water heaters?
And you're like, woah. What's atankless water heater? Oh, it

(13:56):
heats up water right away.You're like, really? And that
would go great with, like, thevertical shower that I'm putting
in or, you know, that kind ofthing.
Those types of things will helpme understand what it is that
you need. And then I'll be ableto say, okay. Now that I
understand what you need, hereare my recommendations, and
those things will be taken veryseriously by you because you are
now you you feel like I havelistened to you. They'd

(14:19):
understand what you need. Andthe solution that I presented is
not some boilerplate solution,but it's it's specifically
custom designed for to fit whatyour goals were.
And that's selling in anutshell. It's selling a service
and then selling a product. Youknow?

Crystal (14:35):
So when it comes to marketing, you say, essentially,
people know more than they thinkthey know about marketing. Do
you wanna elaborate on that alittle bit?

Sure. Yeah. So that so, yes, my claim is that
business owners know much moreabout marketing than they think.

Eric (14:49):
The big big claim.

Crystal (14:50):
Yeah.

Yes. So I'd say they know about 85% of what they
need to know, and the remaining15% is why I'm still in
business. So, the, in fact, Iwill even teach. So I have, I've
had over 800, you know, probablyover a 1000 clients in different
industries at this point thatare service based. I've helped,
you know, client I've hadclients get deals on Shark Tank.

(15:13):
I've had clients, sell, like,I've sold as seen on TV
products. I've made 1,000,000for clients on Amazon and, and
just direct sales and whatnot.I've, done nearing about
$30,000,000 of revenue for forour clients on Kickstarter.
About, just I mean, it's over200 campaigns now that we've
done Kickstarter and GameFoundand their other, crowdfunding

(15:36):
websites. So I have a lot ofexperience doing stuff like
that.
And everything always seems toboil down to the exact same
thing is, there so for the forservices, you're selling, to
somebody that needs what it is

Eric (15:51):
that you're selling, hopefully. Right? That that need
oh, so so like like It's a space

on need.

Eric (15:55):
Like like like yeah. Like, okay. Like like plumber, like
like the emergency stuff.

Crystal (15:59):
Necessity.

Right. So if if you have to convince somebody to
buy something, then they areabout 10 times more expensive
than if you if you had somebodythat was, like, coming to you,
like, I need plumbing servicesor whatever in some fashion.

Crystal (16:16):
So they're less prequalified.

Right. So if I have to say, Eric, you have a
stain right here. Have youthought about that? You're like,
yeah, but it's just whatever.You know?
I'll just paint over it orsomething like that. It's like,
yeah. But your roof is probablyleaking.

Eric (16:32):
Mhmm.

And it's you know? But you're like, yeah.

Eric (16:34):
But I live in San Diego, and

and you're you're you're what you're doing is
you're issuing objections to mytrying to say you need a new
roof. Mhmm. Right? And becausethat's what I'm eventually gonna
say is, like, you need a newroof, bro. I can do it.
Mhmm. But you're like, but Idon't want to buy a new roof
right now. I'll I'll patch it.If if there's a real rainy day
in San Diego, I'll patch it.I'll put a tarp over the top.

(16:56):
I just wanna spend my money onthat.

Eric (16:57):
What's wrong with the bucket on the ground?

It's fine. Right? That's that's sounds awesome. I
I always think of Winnie thePooh. It's like the rain

Eric (17:03):
Yeah. Yeah.

Down down down. But, but yeah. So what you're
you're not telling me the realobjection. The real objection is
I don't want to spend my moneyon that. And, you know, there
there are lots of shortcuts thatcustomers make in their in their
head to to arrive at theirlogical conclusion, and they're

(17:24):
not logical shortcuts.

Eric (17:26):
Mhmm.

So, what we what I like to do, first of all, is to
bypass all of those things andhave people say, Andrew, I need
marketing service or whatever.You know, like my clients need
marketing services for forvarious things. And so I would
rather have somebody that knowsthey need marketing services
than say, you know, I don'tknow. Eric, you run a podcasting

(17:49):
business. You run a videographybusiness.
Like, I could help you doubleyour business and whatever. You
know? That's like, I'm startingto sell you a bill of goods that
may sound like snake oil to you,but I would so I I just I don't
like to sell like that. Thatthat's the sleazy salesperson,
the person who's a good salesmanor a bad salesman, you know,
those types of people. They all,they're all trying to convince

(18:13):
you to buy a thing that youdidn't need.
Mhmm. Right?

Crystal (18:17):
So you're ultimately saying your marketing strategy
is to be fishing in the rightpool of people.

Well, that's the first part. So and that's a lot
of the time, people do this verynaturally. They kind of go what
with what's working. So, like,Crystal, let's talk about your
business. You have a mindsetservice business.
Right? You you help you operateyou're you're a brain surgeon.
You operate on people's thinkingas, as I as

Crystal (18:40):
I Scalpel free brain surgeon.

Eric (18:42):
Yeah. Yep.

So, where do you find your best clients come
from? Or, like, where do youfind, like, most commonly when
you get a client, where does itcome from?

Crystal (18:53):
The social media source that I get the most is actually
LinkedIn. So I get a fair amounton LinkedIn.

Awesome. So, what made you try LinkedIn
originally?

Crystal (19:02):
I love the professionalism, and I actually
like that like, I don't have myfamily community on. Yeah. I
love that it's just, like, abusiness community, and I don't
feel like there's, like, as manypreconceived notions where Yeah.
I don't I personally don't likeselling to my friends and family
because, like you said, thosearen't your people.

Right. So when you when you when did you start
using LinkedIn? Like, has itbeen a year or 2 years? 4 years.
4 years?
Okay. So, when you originallytried it, how long did it take
for it to work? You know what Imean? Like, when did you get
your first, you know, realclient? When did you see the the
return?

Crystal (19:38):
Well, I got my first client off of LinkedIn. So it
was within the 1st 6 months atleast.

Okay. So you gave it a try, and then it actually
panned out. And and it told youI should keep doing this.

Crystal (19:50):
Yeah.

That's that's pretty much what a lot of
business owners do. They they,like, lean start leaning into
what's working. Right?

Eric (19:57):
Mhmm.

And so what whatever, you know, whatever
that is, whatever industrypeople are in, they they tend to
start to congregate in the rightplaces and be found by the right
people and

Eric (20:06):
Mhmm.

Find the right strategic partners, which is why
BNI is so powerful. Yeah. Mhmm.And if BNI didn't work for me,
if I gave it a year and I didn'tget a single referral and I
didn't see hope of you know, Imean, I I actually, when I
joined BNI, it was, I talked toa guy who was a high powered
business coach, named ChuckHunter. And he I said, hey,

(20:31):
Chuck.
I have like, let me level withyou. I've got all these excuses,
but I'd really like to do this.I think I can make a sale, like,
right away. You know, there'ssomebody that just at the time,
I was selling websites. Right?
So I needed to make money, andthere was a person that was
like, oh, I need a website. Theysaid that out loud. I'm like, I
can make a sale if I join thisgroup. You know? And, Chuck kind

(20:53):
of slowed me down and was like,Hey, man, you know, you have to
think about all these otherthings.
You have to be a farmer, not ahunter in these type of group.
And so he helped me understand,you know, that I need to look at
this as more of a long terminvestment into people. Yeah.
And so that's what I did. So Imade a sale right away.
You know, I joined. And this wasBNI a wave of success in

(21:14):
Carlsbad at the time. Mhmm. Andin 2012. And I made a sale right
away, and then I did not makeanother sale for 6 I did not
receive another referral for 6months.
Mhmm. It was it was like it wasactually a very a very desperate
time in my career that I really,really needed to make to make
sales. You know? I was at thattime, my wife was working. I I

(21:38):
was just hustling as as hard asI could, and I had a seriously
dry spell over the summer.
Mhmm. And then we had like 6months of income before we don't
have enough to pay for things.And every sale I made just like
extended that a little bit. Butevery month that came, shrank
it. And I was like, I reallyneed to make money, and I need

(21:58):
to sell stuff.
And so I would try to sell otherplaces and whatnot, but BNI, the
reason that I stayed was becausenot only because I made one
sale, but also I saw thepotential of what could be. Like
if this person trusts me enough,they will start referring me to
their clients, and they havelots and lots of people that I
can sell to, which is a lot ofthe kind of the math that we're

(22:21):
doing in our heads. So maybe youmade a sale relatively quickly
on LinkedIn, but within 6months, you had to have seen
potential. Right? And so I thinkthat a lot of business owners,
they quickly are able to judgepotential.
It's like, this is a place thatI should go if we felt so there

(22:42):
were other networking groupsthat I attended. Before I knew
what I was doing, I was 23 yearsold, I think when I started
trying to attend network. 22when I started attending
networking groups. 24 when Ifound BNI. So I had been
networking for 2 years beforethis chamber of commerce
meetings and, other meetup.comgroups and mixers and whatnot.

(23:02):
And I just did not find success.But then I saw BNI. I went to
BNI, and one of the biggestchanges was that referrals were
passing around in the room. Andat the time, they used slips,
like, they made slips.

Crystal (23:12):
Yeah. And I could see the visual. Yeah.

Eric (23:14):
It's like a wall. The white one. Honestly. You know?
The the the digital one's niceand convenient, but you do lose
the visual, especially from likea Yeah.
Even like a visitor. Stand on.Yeah. And, like, you know

But think of how many trees you save. You know?
Save at least, like, one tree ameeting practically. We've
passed so many

Eric (23:32):
Fair enough.

Crystal (23:35):
Yeah. Andrew 32.

Yeah. Yeah. But, but yeah.

Eric (23:39):
Maybe a tablet. Maybe we pass around a tablet, and you
kind of you fill it out rightthere, and you pass it down. I
don't know. Yeah. That'd beawesome.

Crystal (23:44):
We call it an app.

Eric (23:45):
Yeah. No. No. No. No.
But with an actual tablet, thephysical portion of it. Yeah.
Yeah.

So, but, yeah, it's it's one of those things
that I immediately saw somethingdifferent. I was like, I've I've
experienced what I didn't like,and then I saw something
different that I very much did,and I didn't understand why I
liked it at the time. I was, asa former mentor of mine would
say, wet behind the ears. I wasvery green. I didn't I didn't
know business.

(24:11):
I I wasn't, you know, veryexperienced, but I saw something
about this group that I waslike, I want that. You need

Crystal (24:20):
more reason to want to be in it because you weren't
experienced, and there's so manypeople that can help shape and
make you more well roundedbecause there's parts of
business that you probably don'teven realize are happening that
when you're in a group like thatand information is top of mind
and you're hearing every weekthe newest things happening, it
does force you to kinda be alittle more well rounded.

Absolutely. But, you know, like, when when when I
visited that first time, the Ionly had one experience with the
group, one single meeting, and II didn't have this long term
thought, but there was somethinghappening in my subconscious.
And, Crystal, you understand thesubconscious probably better
than than either of us here. Itis just so powerful. It moves at
a 1000000 times the speed ofyour conscious mind, and and

(25:05):
there's something bubbling up inthere, and I just Maybe

Eric (25:07):
we should switch seats? Sorry.

No. I don't think so. Who's still You've

Eric (25:10):
got it. Something I just Yeah. Doing.

So, it it it emerges as a feeling. Mhmm. And
it's like, I trust my gut. Andpeople say that all the time.
Right?
And it's like, I trust thesignals my subconscious brain
just did this all this complexcalculus and told me, this is
good. Do more of this. Mhmm.And, it it comes out as that
feeling or of of, like, you knowinstinct.

Eric (25:34):
Yeah.

Right. And so, this is an intrinsic
understanding of marketing thatevery business owner has inside
them. And, the the problem isthat many business owners, they
either don't trust that feelingor don't know how to interpret
those signals.

Crystal (25:49):
Mhmm.

And, they end up getting, you know, the the the
one version of what happens isthey get had by some guy who's a
marketing guru and said, I'llI'll make you lots of money and
then doesn't.

Eric (26:01):
And

then they're left holding an empty bag at the end
of the day, and they're like,why am I holding this bag? I
thought the world was nice, youknow, and then they get all

Eric (26:08):
For for for me, like like a flag is if I don't understand
it, then you probably shouldn'tdo it. Like, if it doesn't make
sense to you, then one, you youmaybe what it is isn't like a
scam or whatever, but, like, youstill should understand what it
actually is that that that thething that you're being sold to
sold for is. But then it alsoyou know, it'll weed out scams

(26:31):
as well too.

Oh, yeah.

Eric (26:32):
Right? And because that that's you know, if they wanna
try to confuse you and thingslike that too. And and, or if
maybe somebody maybe they'remaybe they all have all good
intentions, but they don'treally fully know what they're
doing.

Yeah.

Eric (26:44):
And so and that might be coming across, and you might not
be quite picking up on itnecessarily because maybe their
their

Crystal (26:50):
Energy never lies. You pick up on so many more things
than we realize the subtle,like, body language. Well,

Eric (26:55):
that's why you have to listen to that. Yeah. Right.
That's why and that I've hadthat so many times where it's,
like, I'll be talking tosomeone. I'm like, I I've
literally I've I I remember onetime I I I actually, I was I was
helping somebody out with a witha shoot Uh-huh.
And or I was going to. And then,it was just a it was a I didn't
feel too bad about this becauseit it was just I was just

(27:17):
helping him out as as as afriend. Mhmm. And I, and then
that same morning, I I I, like,I I I told Amber, I was like,
you know what? I don't think weshould do this.
I think we should just make anexcuse and just Mhmm. And flick
it out and and and not and andnot do it, which I'm not wanting
to do that sort of thing. But Iwas like, something just does

(27:38):
not sit right. Yeah. And then,you know, some sometime later,
something happened.
I won't go into any kind ofdetails and whatnot, but, like
and I was like, oh, I'm gladBefore the pandemic. I didn't,
like, build that thatrelationship Mhmm. With that
person because it just wouldn'tit's it's not who I wanna
associate with myself with.Yeah. And so and but it's like

(27:58):
one of those things where I'mlike, I don't know why I'm doing
this.
This sounds kind of insane. I'ma logical person as well too.
So, like, when I realize that Isound insane, I'm just like

Crystal (28:07):
But it's better that you were able to identify it and
follow it because if you didn'tand say you decided, oh, I'm
gonna push past this feelingYeah. And I'm gonna go ahead and
work with this. Sometimes yoursubconscious

Eric (28:18):
can even interject before. Like, maybe you would

Crystal (28:18):
have been in a car accident on the way interject
before. Like, maybe you wouldhave been in a car accident on
the way there, or maybesomething would have happened

Eric (28:25):
on the I've had times like that too where where I've just
was, like, I in and I neverreally figured out the reason,
but I where I was just took aweird driving route that I never
take. And but it wasn't like,oh, I wanna go on this this fun
route. I was like, I feel like Ireally should go this route. I
was like, I don't know. I waslike, I'm just gonna go this
route.
And then

It's really tough to tell sometimes if it's the
holy spirit or, like, the pizzayou ate last night. You know?
And sometimes you're like, oh, Idon't know. You know? Is that
feeling gas, or is that, like,intuition?
And yeah. It

Crystal (28:57):
could be both.

Eric (28:59):
It could be both.

That's you know, serve that up on YouTube for
yourself.

Eric (29:03):
Yeah.

So, yeah. So,

Eric (29:08):
holy spirit or bloated or are you feeling bloated? Yeah.
Is that gonna be the title orsomething? Oh, man.

So one of the things I also find in regard to
marketing and business owners oroh, go ahead, man.

Eric (29:21):
Before you move on to that thought, I actually wanted to go
back onto another one that I Ikinda just made an interesting
connection on something that youhad said, and that is so so on
the the, the services, it'sprimarily need based.

Yeah.

Eric (29:35):
And so the one thing that I've always kind of I noticed
for me, I've always came acrossis, like, a lot of video work
and podcasting work is alwayslike, oh, I don't need that.

Right.

Eric (29:44):
However, I made it I did made an interesting connection.
The people that I often look forare people who are super
passionate about what they do,that they have a very strong
calling. Mhmm. And I found Ijust made this connection that
those people very much feel likethey need to start a podcast.

Yeah. Yeah.

Eric (30:02):
And or or they need to create videos because they wanna
impact as many people as theypossibly can, and they know that
they can't, that they can't doit just 1 on 1 stuff. They they
have bigger ambitions than thanthan than just staying with 1 on
1 stuff.

Right.

Eric (30:19):
And I made that I I've kind of always sort of known
that, but I just realized I waslike I was like, that's why I
kind of seek those people outbecause they I've I've, I guess,
subconsciously realized thatthey need Yep. They they they
have that need. Right. Anyways,it it's it's it's not really a
need per se. You're not, like,starving or something like that.

Well, yeah. But it's it's this whatever.
Qualification.

Eric (30:42):
It's a prequalification. I've just we kinda made that
made that

So there's this there's an opportunity in
marketing. It's a I d a. It'sattention, interest, desire,
action. So it attend so and youcan, pay money to go to places
and advertise your business thatwill advertise the customers at
each of those 4 steps. And thethe further along you get, you
know, attention is like abillboard along the freeway.

(31:05):
You're gonna get 1,000 and tensof thousands of people maybe
every day that that drive rightpast it. That per view is gonna
cost a lot less than, you know,paying on Google. You know, if
you had to pay for, like,mesothelioma attorney in Los
Angeles, you're gonna pay $500 aclick, for like, a click.
Imagine paying $500 a car onyour freeway or whatever. Right?

(31:28):
So Mhmm. Anyway, the moreexpensive, things are toward the
end when somebody already knowsthat they they have a desire,
desire has been fostered,they're just looking for the
person to take action or theplace to take action. You know?
On Google, I deal with Googleall the time. One of the most
common examples that I'll useare when somebody types in Nike

(31:49):
shoes, they might be interestedin, you know, the best price Air
Jordan for that year, and theymay be very interested in
buying, but probably not.
They're probably just, you know,they might go buy the next day a
pair of Adidas, you know. Theymight not buy shoes at all for
the next, you know, 6 months.But when somebody types in, as I
mentioned before, the best priceAir Jordan 2020 fours, that

(32:12):
person has, like, their creditcard out in their hand typing
with one finger or whatever onthe other hand waiting for the
very first sight

Eric (32:19):
Mhmm.

That has the shoe. You know, they might look for a
coupon or something like that,but they're buying that shoe
today. You know? And so the sametype of qualification is what
you're talking about where, youknow, you might have somebody
that was you know, everybody'sinvolved in their little
circles, but we're all cyborgs.We all have this cell phone that
that we are attached to, and, itit gives us information.

(32:41):
You know? It's like our our realbrain is right there. And, so
when when somebody's like, ah,I'm just so passionate about
this thing. They have a friendlike, have you thought about,
like, starting a podcast? Andinstantly they're like, oh, I
could do that.
And

Eric (32:54):
what

do they Google? How to start a podcast or
podcast, you know, or whateverwhatever it is. So the search
coming out on Google might behow to start a podcast, or, you
know, what resources do I needto start a podcast, or what, you
know, are the best podcast, likegeneral practices for 2024,
2025, you know, or coming intothe new year. And that's kind of

(33:17):
how it comes out on Google.Mhmm.
So if you happen to be the bestmatch for that search, you're
gonna get lots of passionatelymotivated and interested people
to talk to you about and thatthat know that they need a
podcast.

Eric (33:29):
Mhmm.

They just don't know how to do the thing. Maybe
they don't have time, or theyare just interested in getting
some questions, like burningquestions answered. Those are
the people that you can sell tothose people all day long, and
it won't ever feel like sellingbecause they already are
interested in buying. They'rejust maybe trying to see if
you're the right fit for what itis that they do. And when you as

(33:51):
a business owner, like, ifyou've ever been in the
situation of like, I have nomoney and all the time, and I
just wanna do work, it it it's alittle bit more of a desperate
selling situation where you'rejust trying to like be all
things to all people.
But then when you start tobecome a little more
established, you start to likedecide what you're good at. You
know, for me, like I would atthe at in 2012, 2013, like,

(34:11):
someone asked me like, hey, doyou do Google marketing? I'm
like, I I do today, you know?

Eric (34:16):
And I started selling on yeah. Exactly. And then after

a while, it's like, well, what am I really
good at? You know? And I, at thetime, did website design and SEO
marketing and, you know, anykind of ads on Facebook or
Google or Amazon or whatever. Idid email marketing. I did cons
consulting for different, youknow, types of, businesses.
It's like, what do I really likedoing? What do I wanna become
really good at? And it's like, II niche myself down into like, I

(34:43):
will get more phone calls, or Iwill get more targeted traffic
to fill out contact forms foryou, or I will sell products on
your website. If they're in veryparticular industries, you know,
I like to do some things morethan others. I can sell, you
know, it's it's like I said,most of what it is that you sell
is is the same because peopleare the same.

(35:04):
That's that's really what thethe core is. Like when somebody
is driven by need, where do theygo? What do I say to them? And
how do I how do I, find them?Mhmm.
Right? And those are the 3questions I need to to have
answered. Who are they? Where dothey go? And and how and what do
I say when I find them?
Mhmm. If I can answer thosethree questions, then I can sell
stuff to Mhmm. To your targetmarket. Mhmm.

Eric (35:27):
You know? So Yeah. I I I think I would imagine, like, a
lot of people are even you know,I I think that can take a long
time to even figure that outsometimes as well too. Even
like, it's I imagine, you know,more veteran businesses have
been around for a while probablyalready already already know
that. But what what about do youhave do you have steps for

(35:47):
somebody who's maybe they theyhaven't quite figured figured
that out where they're like, youearly on, it sounded like, you
know, you were you were soundslike you were a very much, an
action taker and figured outlater Yeah.
Kinda kinda person where it waslike Experience. Where where it
was like, yeah. Of course, I doGoogle Ads. Do I do Google Ads?
Yep.
You know that? I could see yousearching, like, immediately

(36:08):
after

Crystal (36:09):
do it doesn't mean you should do it. Right. Well,
right. To a point that you levelup.

Eric (36:12):
Yep. Right. And and and so I imagine that there's other
people that are kind of, like,you know, maybe they're they're
committed to what they what theywhat their business is, but
maybe they haven't quite figuredout who's what specific people
that they are looking to workwith. Yeah. What kind of
questions would they maybe askthemselves

Yeah.

Eric (36:31):
To kind of figure that out?

A lot of the time when somebody starts a business,
it's because they had anexperience that they very much
valued. And as a customer of,you know, in in some cases, it's
like, I wanna make money. It's2024. I'm gonna go to a trade
school and become anelectrician. And then you get
taught the trade of being anelectrician and decide to go out
on your own.
That may be a different thingwhere it's like, I have this

(36:54):
skill, and now I need to start abusiness to make money with the
skill because, you know, I Imean, everybody's motivated by
mortgages and and all that.Right? Mhmm. But when but but
oftentimes, and I would I wouldwager this as the case for you,
Crystal, because this is such apowerful business. I mean, Jenny
Harkleroad, who we both know,had a gnarly experience of

(37:14):
breaking her back and and andwhatnot.
And then eventually she found,like, what I think is called Psi
k or, you know She she createslike something different. She
had

Crystal (37:25):
experienced that. And then she also met with doctor
Warren, and then they kind ofcreated the process, that I
teach and train because

That's awesome.

Crystal (37:33):
She wanted to be able to to get it out in her own way,
and that other form didn'treally want her to share it with
the world. So Yeah. Yeah. Thatthat catalyst breaking her back
on a mountain did create theprocess that I teach and train.
So, actually, in my book, I myforeword is written to her
because had she not broken herback, I wouldn't be doing what

(37:54):
I'm doing.

Wow. Yeah.

Crystal (37:55):
And and the day that I first tried what she did, I knew
that that was my passion and mycalling. Yep. So yeah.

So so oh, go ahead. Go ahead.

Crystal (38:03):
Well, I kind of wanna I'm hearing you say it almost
kinda ties into b and I a littlebit from some training that we
did recently. And they said,like, yes. It's great to try to
sell to the whole group, butthere's really 20 to 30% of the
people that are in your groupthat are really your target.

Oh, yeah.

Crystal (38:18):
And so what I'm kind of hearing you say is, like, yes,
anyone might be your audience,but there's really probably 20
or 30% of people that have theprequalifications that if you
focus on that 20, 30% to sellto, then you're not gonna spin
your wheels and waste your timeand maybe be as demotivated as
if you get rejected and shutdown and Yeah. From the other,

(38:40):
you know, 70, 80% of the peoplethat maybe isn't your correct
audience.

So That's that's very true. It's, something that
oftentimes let's say, like, I'mmaking someone up that I I don't
I'm not actually thinking of aperson, but so let's say we have
a very wealthy person Mhmm. Thathas, their their house is
immaculate. It's beautiful. It'son, let's say, in Rancho Santa
Fe on, like, 5 acres, andeverything is like hedges

(39:06):
trimmed and everything likethat.

Crystal (39:07):
What a wonderful hypothetical.

Yes. Yeah. So that'll be me one day. You know?
So I don't know about RanchoSanta Fe.
We'll see.

Eric (39:14):
You know? You'll move back. I don't know.

Crystal (39:16):
He's not manifest.

I'll I'll just have like another house there
and you know? But so that personthat has those beautifully
trimmed hedges probably has agardener or or a a company that
they pay a lot of money forthat. Right? That person may
also be driving around in abeater of a car, like a a car
that is not you would expect aperson that has a house like

(39:40):
that to also drive a Ferrari orlike a nice BMW or some other
thing like that. And oftentimes,you see people that just have a
beat up truck that will driveinto a really nice house.
And it is it it is a sign ofwhat it is that they value. They
value their their yard lookingbeautiful. Maybe they have the

(40:00):
grandkids and whatever that comeover, and that's like who
they're doing that for. And sothey place a lot of value there.
But what you don't do to aperson like that is try to sell
them a really nice car becausethey don't see a lot of value in
it.
If they drive a beat up car,it's because and they'll say,
oh, that's too much money. Butthat person might have like
$1,000,000,000 in their bankaccount. Who knows? And, yet

(40:21):
that person will still feellike, you know, a $100,000 for a
car is a lot of money. So whatyou wanna do is you wanna try to
sell to somebody that has, thathas a high high perceived value
for your service.
So if, for example, Eric, we'retalking about somebody that's
very passionate, but, has a realproblem trusting people. And so,

(40:43):
like, I'm gonna yeah. I'llalright. I'll do my podcast.
It'll be a monthly podcast.
I'm gonna have a millionquestions for you every single
month and, you know, back andforth emails. I'm gonna make
sure, oh, you messed up mypodcast. This thing, like, it,
they, they they obviouslywouldn't be a good client for
you, but oftentimes before youeven sign them, you can suss out

(41:04):
what they value.

Eric (41:05):
Mhmm.

Right? And there's certain, certain clients I've

Eric (41:09):
taken I I found even even monthly, that's a red flag for
me actually because youoftentimes, not always, there
are rare exceptions, but,oftentimes, the reason I always
I ask, like, what what whatwhat's the reason? Like, oh, I
don't have enough time. It'slike, well, okay. You're not
fully committed into doing it. Iknow I already know someone like

(41:29):
that is gonna stop their podcastafter after 1

or 2 months. Yeah.

Eric (41:33):
And so and it won't it won't be good be good for that
person. I have talked to thosepeople, so that that's a red
automatically right there.

Yeah. So there there are these these red flags
that we kind of, are able totell. One like, the easiest
example. So I remember one timeI was standing in front of a
Brazilian jiu jitsu worldchampion. I just, I had a really
excellent experience with himrolling with him, and and we had
a good, I'm a Brazilian jiujitsu black belt for those who
might not know.

Crystal (41:59):
Good grappling.

Yeah. But this guy is a world champion. Like, this
this guy is is better than me.And, so we had a really great
experience. I escaped his worldfamous move, and then he, tapped
me with something else.
So, you know, we we had a a goodtime. I actually scored some
points on him, and then hedestroyed me. And then
afterward, we're we're talking,and he has a new so he's won the

(42:22):
world championships and has avery famous name. And he's, you
know, he's an American guy andand whatnot, which is rare for
an American to win a Brazilian,you know, sport championship.
And, he we were talking abouthim starting his own gyms, his
own academy, his own like brandof academies.
And I'm like, I I actually dothe marketing for the gym that

(42:43):
we're grappling at.

Eric (42:44):
Mhmm.

And he it has, you know, 250 students, and I was
able to share that with him. Andthe guy that brought him was the
owner of that gym, so I had allthe ins. Right? And the guy's
starting his academy andwhatnot. And so I'm like, yeah,
man, I'd love to And I thinkthere's nothing wrong with this.
I would love to do the marketingfor you because it is so cool
that I get to meet you andwhatever. I'd love to work for

(43:07):
you. And he immediately waslike, well, you know, I mean, I
have, like, I have, like,marketing guy and this and that.
And it's like he's being veryvague about the marketing guys.
You know, if he was like, oh,I've got

Eric (43:19):
a web guy. I've got a I've got

a marketing guy that does my ads, and I've got
someone that does my socialmedia and that kind of thing.
Like, okay. No problem. Youyou've got your team. That's
that's right.
But he was like, oh, you know,I've got, like, I've got
marketing, handled. It's likeyou didn't have a website. You
didn't have anything. You know?It's like so what he's kind of
fronting to me is that he he hehas that need met.

(43:42):
But in actuality, he mightreally be thinking, I don't
trust you enough. Mhmm. Youknow? And so how do you argue
with that? Like, how do youthat's one of the shortcuts
people take in their mind is Idon't trust what you're saying
is true.
How do you argue with that?Maybe like, oh, Crystal, yeah. I
mean, I'd love to do the thing,but my wife, I have to, like,
talk with her. We have to lookat the budget, whatever. It

(44:03):
might just simply be, I don'ttrust what you're saying is
gonna work.
I don't I don't believe you. Andthat is a shortcut that they
took in their brain. It's notrational. It's it's it's but
it's justified with logicbecause, oh, I must talk with my
wife about this, and I must andif you just start knocking on
those objections, like, let'scall your wife now. Let's call
your wife right now.
And then, you know, call her andshe's like, oh, it's fine. You

(44:24):
can do whatever you want, honey.You know, we have plenty of
money in the bank and that kindof thing. And you just start

Eric (44:29):
They're probably secretly hoping, like, say no.

Say no. Say no. So you really when you really start
stripping the objections, peoplestart getting angry and mean and
and and that kind of thing. And,eventually, it's just like, I
don't want to buy your yourservice.

Crystal (44:41):
Yeah.

They don't want to

Crystal (44:43):
that resistance that it's just gonna build. But you
can feel the state of flow whensomeone's like, yes, Andrew.
Thank you. This is exactly whatI needed.

Exactly. I've had the experience where I have,
picking up my phone and takensomeone's credit card for the
very first time. I met them whenI picked up their call, and I
said, hello. This is Andrew withNext Level Web. How can I help
you?
And then by the end of the call,I had their credit card number
punched into my virtual terminalfor monthly services because
they just needed, and I was ableto meet the need, explain what

(45:12):
was wrong, explain how to fixit, and and say, this is what we
charge to fix that. And theywere like, alright. I'm in.
That's it. You know?
You you were able to explain myneed better than I understood it
myself. I'm in. And then thereare other people that I remember
I remember this one time. I wassitting in front of a guy who's
like a CPA that's in the localarea, and he had a check written
out with my name on it and alsosigned. And it was in his hand,

(45:35):
like, on the table.
And I remember sitting andtalking with him for 4 hours,
and he, like, slid it forward.And then we would keep talking,
and his hand was always on thatcheck. And then he, like, pulled
it back. And this happened,like, several times during the
meeting. It was like, Kim doingthis mental, like, should I give
this money to them so they cando the thing?

(45:55):
We ended up not getting thecheck. And we spent like, oh, we
had to have spent at least 5hours with this guy. At the end
of the day, me and at the time,my SEO marketing manager, his
name is Blake, and this was inlike 2014, 2015. And, yeah,
2015. So we spent, like, 5 hourswith this person.
We solved several of theirproblems with them in front of
them on the computer. They werelike, let's let's, test your

(46:18):
your programming kung fu, youknow, and and whatever. And we
were just able to resolve alltheir problems there, and, we
shouldn't have done that becausewe didn't get paid for it. It
was the worst. So

Crystal (46:28):
Did they ever come back?

Nope. Nope. And I saw they were like we were right
next door to them. My office waslike, I would walk to like
Chipotle in downtown Vista, andI would walk by them and see
them at their desk every day andbe like, it was rather resentful
because I worked so hard to earnthat person's small, small
check, and they ended up,deciding not to move forward.

(46:49):
And looking behind, that is notnecessarily a mark of negativity
that I should hold in resentmentagainst that person.
I was talking to the wrongperson the whole time. I should
have spent 5 hours talking tothe right people, And I just
needed to simply identify, whothe right people were. And I,
found as upon reflection of thatparticular situation, I didn't

(47:13):
listen to my gut. I just didn'tI was just like, you know what?
This guy said he's going to doit.
You know, he's gonna pay us. Hewants our services and wants to
have a meeting and everythinglike that. All the feelings were
wrong. All the alarm bells werewrong. Didn't trust the guy in
my subconscious was saying

Crystal (47:29):
no. Groundhole.

Yeah. And I was like, you know what?

Crystal (47:32):
Not fitting.

Yeah. So it was like, how do I, you just have to
listen to your intuition. It istelling you things that are that
are accurate, you know. If, youfeel danger, you know, you
should, you should listen.Right?
Mhmm. And so, I think thatsometimes, especially in very
civilized society, we learn toignore those things.

Eric (47:56):
Mhmm.

And you get into a more primal situation, you
should have, you will have, youwill make it much further if you
trust your gut, you know? And inmarketing and business, it's the
same, you know? You're often inprimal situations where it's
like, am I going to succeed, ornot? It's often based on what
you say no to. Right?

Eric (48:14):
Mhmm. I think Before. Well, I think that's also what
you're in was also very kind ofhard situation to actually say
no to because the guy's likeit's not like someone is just
talking about sort of sort ofcertain things. I've come across
those people too where it'slike, oh, yeah. They wanna, you
know, start a podcast or theywanna record something or
whatever.
And then and they keep kindatelling me about that, but then
they, like, never take that kindof first step no matter what.

(48:35):
Like, there's always some excuseor something like that. And so I
I I've gotten better myself atkind of identifying those
people, but I feel like thatsituation. I've never been in a
situation like that where theguy literally has a check on the
It's like

Sliding back.

Eric (48:48):
I know. It's kind of just like, I almost wanna reach out.
I'm like, just give me that.

Crystal (48:51):
Oh, no. It's like a logical warfare. Right?

Eric (48:53):
I know. Like, that's almost like, how do you say no
to a situation like that, like,taunting, like, at that point?
Like, what a taunt? Like, yeah.

Crystal (49:00):
The lesson was, like, that he was already sold before
the meeting that somethinghappened. Like you said, that

that's I think in the end, I talked too much to,
you know, I you can you can talkyourself right out of a sale,
you know, if you if you talk somuch. You know? The the key is,
in fact, my first sales coach,excellent, excellent sales
coach, his name is Dan Bo, and Iinterviewed him a couple of
times on my podcast. He told me,and this was so impactful, that

(49:26):
whenever you have somethingreally cool to say about your
service, shut up. Think about itand turn it into a question.
You know? So, like, Eric, whatis something really cool about
your particular service? I'm aclient

Eric (49:38):
of yours. So, like, you know, I could probably say this,

but what's your what's a cool thing about your
service?

Eric (49:44):
Cool thing about that I think, is really cool about
about my services. I have tonsof automations that I use.

Okay. And why why do you use automations?

Eric (49:52):
Just I use automations because it keeps us actually
more accountable and andreliable, I think, for for all
of my clients. Okay. And becauseand and and also and saves time
and also, like, for example,like, I use, like, we we've I I
try to get away from email asmuch as I possibly can. People
forget to write things inemails. People Yeah.

(50:13):
People get it gets lost in spam.Like, email is, like, the the
last resort on things where Iabsolutely have to. We still use
email, but, like, we we, and soI I I, I try to get away from
that with, like, forms andthings like that too because it
the forms just simply remindpeople to, you know, like, when
does this episode is supposed togo out, for example. Right?

(50:34):
Like, they feed that informationto me.
And, like, others, if they justsend that to me, then I'm, like,
going back and forth. When didit go out? Especially if they're
hard to get a hold of. Yeah.Then it's, like, days go by.
I'm, like, I still just need toknow when you want this episode
to go out, that sort of thing.Right? So that's why I have all
these. So I think that's reallycool. But I don't think most
people probably don't thinkthat's very cool.
They could care

about it. So so let's let's let's go through
this exercise. Let's go throughthis exercise. So shut up. You
think about it.
Turn into a question. Ask ask mea question. Wouldn't you

Eric (51:05):
do you like automations?

Like, what do you mean? What what are automations?
So what about what about,something like so okay. I'm I'm
gonna be the I'm gonna we'llwe'll role play for a second.

Eric (51:15):
Mhmm.

It's like, okay. I I wanna start a podcast. I'm
super passionate about boardgames, and I'm passionate about,
you know, jujitsu. And I justwanna I just feel like my
thoughts are bubbling overinside my head. But to use an
objection that you gave meearlier, I have no time.
I just have no time. I just Ifeel I feel frustrated, because
I want these things to happen,but, you know, now now is your

(51:37):
opportunity. What would you whatwould you say?

Eric (51:42):
What, So

Like remember, question. You have to ask me a
question based

Eric (51:47):
on what you just heard me say. Right now. Yeah. I'd say I
guess well, at first, I would II I actually what do you like
about board games is what Iwould first ask you because I I
kind of, like, ask you morelike, I wanna see your passion a
bit more.

So then in this role play, I like very heavy,
heavy, chonky games that take,like, 8 hours to play. I love
the, like, the the thinking thathappens and the, negotiation
that happens between theplayers. That's what I like.

Eric (52:15):
Okay.

So then what would you say? Now it must be a
question.

Eric (52:21):
How, I guess, how do you how do you intend to get that in
front of people?

Oh, I thought about a podcast, but I just
don't I don't think I have timefor it.

Eric (52:33):
Why don't you think you have time for

it? I just am so busy. I have so many things to
do. I have so many games thatneed playing. It's like, how can
I how can I, you know, where Idon't know where the time will
come from?

Eric (52:47):
What if, what if what if I could free up your time?

What do you mean?

Eric (52:54):
What if I could, help you create time for us? See, this
this is tough. I'm not used todoing this.

See, this isn't an organic conversation with a
natural person, but if if butyeah. No. But this is What would
you what would you say for Eric?

Crystal (53:10):
What if I told you I had a process based system that
would help you get your voiceout to the world and make more
money?

Oh, that's that's immediately interesting. So and
that that would save time.Right? So it's all about how,
you know, so if if I'm if I havethese needs, you know, so first
of all, whoever asked thequestions is who controls the
power on the conversation. Mhmm.
Because if I ask you a questionabout, you know, what

Eric (53:31):
if I told you I had this thing that can help you save
time and get free up an hour aweek so

you can actually podcast? Then your response to
me is not gonna be like, I dolike peanut butter and jelly
sandwiches. You know? You'regonna be right where it's like,
we're on topic because I askedyou this question, you're gonna
respond to me. And sooftentimes, the key to selling
to someone is to justunderstanding what it is that's
going on their head, and also infact, helping them understand

(53:59):
what's going on inside theirhead.
You know, like when, you know,we have Wes Marshburn in the
group who sells, you know, as atree contractor, he always talks
about the only thing that's aguarantee about the the tree is
that eventually that thatweight's gonna come down. Right?
It's gonna fall over one day.And so if I wanted to get my
trees trimmed

Eric (54:17):
Do do you do you wanna keep your house in one piece? Or
do you like or do you want 2 Doyou 2 house with an open oh,
with an open space? Yeah. Yeah.Open floor plan.
Do you

want a spontaneous highlight. Yeah. Yeah. So, the
idea is, you know, when whenyou're, when somebody up there
is is like, oh, I need, treeservice. I just want my trees
trimmed, just a few treestrimmed.
That can often be an excellentreferral for Wes even though
it's like a few trees trimmedmight not be very much money if

(54:49):
that was the service that heactually were to provide. But
because it's like, oh, I see aneed. I there's a clear need,
and Wes is like, okay. I'll comeout and take a look. And he sees
these branches going like thisright above the house, and
they're old and dead and andwhatnot.
Mhmm. That person has identifiedthat there's something wrong
with the trees, and now it'sWes' prerogative to say, did you

(55:11):
know?

Eric (55:12):
Right? Very, very powerful.

Crystal (55:14):
It's so funny you used that word because on Wes'
episode, he used the wordprerogative. Yeah.

Eric (55:19):
Yeah. Alright.

Crystal (55:19):
So cute.

Eric (55:20):
Very good.

So I feel like, you know, Wes' energy is in
here. Yeah. It is. I'm sittingin his seat. So, so that's kind
of the the idea is that thecustomer's subconscious knows a
lot more of what it is that theythat they need.
They just haven't rationalizedwhat that is and why. So if you
can ask good questions that willhelp you understand why, you can

(55:43):
decide if you have a need thatactually meet or if you have a
service that actually meets thatneed.

Eric (55:48):
Mhmm.

And, you know, so rather than saying, how can I so
there are several types of, youknow, I guess, maybe people can
use questions in a malicious wayby saying, Eric, don't you wish
that you had more time?

Eric (56:05):
I

have an idea. If you just did the thing that I
want you to do, you would havemore time. Right? And that's
kinda where I'm going. So I canlead you on purpose toward my
service so that you willeventually buy it, which is a a
a malicious way to usequestions.
Mhmm. But the way that I'mtalking about is, like, I just
wanna understand. Like, if thereis a referral for me in there,

(56:27):
then, you know, that's, that'ssomething that I will figure out
with questions, with simplequestions. You know? Like, Eric,
how's how's business?

Eric (56:35):
Mhmm.

So I'm asking you. No. It's a role play, but it's
my turn to ask you somequestions. So how's business?

Eric (56:41):
It's it's it's okay.

Cool. Our podcast is doing pretty well. You have
you have all the podcastbusiness you can handle?

Eric (56:47):
Mhmm. No. I could handle more.

Well, how would you get more?

Eric (56:53):
By connecting in in BNI and and, building up social
networks and things like thatonline and building up
connections.

Have you do you do people Google, like, podcasting?
Like, local people Googlepodcasting? Or is it like like a
natural big what you know, howdo I start a podcast? Or do
people look for, like, podcastmanagers in San Diego?

Eric (57:15):
Most people I think are are would would be searching
for, like, how do I start apodcast? Not searching for
specifically a manager.

Do you have a like, an article on your website
that that answers that question?

Eric (57:26):
I don't.

Okay. You should write 1. You should write 1. If
you write 1, I can market it foryou whenever whenever you do. So
and that's that's it.
That's like I'll I'll I don'tyou know, you don't need that
service yet. Like, you don'tneed my service. But when the
time comes, you're like, thiswas a good idea that I heard
from a friend. Mhmm. We'regonna, we're gonna write this
article.
Amber, write these articles. Youknow? Like, how do I start a

(57:48):
podcast? Let's do, like, alittle hub on the website for
how to start a podcast. It'slike when it comes time to
actually market that thing, youknow, you might remember me.
Right? Or maybe you'll say,okay. If I did do the thing
Well,

Eric (58:00):
it's interesting you said article because I have I've sat
down to write articles like thatYeah. Probably, like, 10, 20, 30
times. I don't I've lost counthow many times I've sat down to
do it and just total Yep. Totalmental block.

Yeah.

Eric (58:17):
Like, I've not I for some reason, I've not been able been,
like, been able to, like Uh-huh.Do it or it's like grinding
teeth for some reason. Eventhough I'm, like, I'm I'm
passionate about what I do. Ilove what I do, but, like, I I
don't know what it was.

Crystal (58:32):
You don't like For

Eric (58:32):
some reason know.

Crystal (58:33):
So maybe they

Eric (58:34):
Maybe that's it. Yeah. There's I think that's I
probably have some kind ofsubconscious block that's, like,
suddenly just like, nope. You'renot doing this. And I'm just
like, oh my gosh.
Like, why? Because I because I II would need to have articles
like that, but those have beenso hard for me to for some
something's been blocking youwith that. Yeah. I gotcha. Yeah.

Crystal (58:53):
But I think what you're saying essentially is let them
figure out that you're the right

Eric (58:57):
solution by asking them

Crystal (58:57):
the right questions. So it's their decision. Right. So
they're the one buying ininstead of you trying to get
them to buy in.

Yeah. Yeah. And also not being veiled. It's like
when when I know that I could bea potential service a good
service provider for you, I'llsay, I think I can help you with
that. You know?
And, again, the concept of helpis highly valued. It's like,
maybe we'll talk at some pointdown the road, you know? And, so

(59:28):
the idea behind marketing So youasked the question that was
really good is like, how do Imaybe it was like, how do I know
if or who my target market is?You know? A lot of people don't
understand who their people are.

Eric (59:42):
Yeah. Like, what what's a question to ask? So ask like,
like, they're they're searching.Like, they're they're maybe
they're extremely vague in theirin their,

in their pricing. Anyone, that, or everything.

Eric (59:53):
Right. Right. Right. But but so some to kind of niche
down into into their market.What kind of questions should
they be asking themselves?

Andrew Lowen (01:00:02):
So well, there there are some, the the first
with with a service basedbusiness, it's it's rather can
be rather simple. So productbased businesses are one thing
and service based businesses areanother. Mhmm. They both have
simple answers to this question.Product based business,
oftentimes, the most meaningfultarget market are people like
me.
Because if I'm selling a thingor I'm making a thing, there's a

(01:00:24):
reason that I made it. Right?Mhmm. And, so what and this can
also work for services as well.Like, for example, Crystal, why
did this impact you personally?
What made you personally desireto, pursue this and and be
balanced and whatnot? Right? Andso then you can put yourself in
the mind of your own customerbecause you were your own

(01:00:46):
customer. Mhmm. It's like, whatwas I looking for?
What was what happened to me?What made me desire to do this?
That will help you a lot. Sopeople like me is oftentimes the
most simple answer that iseffective. You just have to
decide you have to have somebodyelse kinda draw or maybe spend
some time drawing out ofyourself what that why did I,

(01:01:10):
you know, why do I make thisboard game?
Why did I need this board gameto exist? And whatnot, you know,
I make board games. So the, thethe answers to that question are
the initial who is my targetmarket? I'm looking for people
like me. And trying to definemyself on a piece of paper can
be difficult, but oftentimes,you know, let's say I'm like,

(01:01:34):
I'm 39 years old.
I'm a father of 7. There arethere are probably not that many
39 year old father of sevensthat are into board games. You
know, at least the target forthat is probably rather a small
group of of people, of elites.Mhmm. So but, yeah.
So what what else? You know,it's it's not the 7 kids
probably, but I quit video gamesand I was looking for an outlet.

(01:01:58):
You know? I'm looking tocompartmentalize the time that I
used to spend 8 hours on a on acomputer playing World of
Warcraft. And now I wanna dothat in but in, like, 1 hour on
the weekend because that's thetime that I have, and I wanna
keep that in in compartmentslike, men are from waffles or
men are like waffles.
Women are like spaghetti. Youheard have you read that book?
Yes. Mhmm. It's it's awesome.

(01:02:18):
You you mentioned before thispodcast, you mentioned, like,
men are good atcompartmentalizing. Mhmm. Men
are like waffles because waffleseach have a little compartment.
Oh. The way that they think, youjump from box to box.
Like, I'm out of the jujitsu boxinto the board game box. Now I'm
into the business box wherewomen are like spaghetti. The
thoughts are all blend togetherbecause all the noodles touch
each other. So one thoughtseamlessly blends into another,

(01:02:39):
which is why men can never keepup with women in conversation.

Eric (01:02:41):
Or the nothing box when they it's time to go to sleep or
whatever.

Yeah. Or watch TV. Yeah.

Eric (01:02:46):
Or watch TV.

Yep. I spend a lot of time there. So, but yeah. So
people like me, and then theother one would be, people that
are motivated by need. It'slike, I need plumbing.
Like, my target I'm a plumber.My target market are people who
need plumbing services. Like,I'm a genius. But that is,
probably a pretty simple way toto acknowledge the target

(01:03:07):
market. You might not understandmuch about the person, but this
is, you know, it gets a littlemore complicated for you,
Crystal, because you're like,you know, I need people that
need balancing services.
It's like, what does that evenmean?

Eric (01:03:19):
I

don't even know that what balancing services are
as like a regular customer. Youhave to become educated a little
bit to understand what that evenmight mean. So what would be the
identifier that's like, I needpeople that are sick and tired
of being sick and tired, or whatis the identifier for you?

Crystal (01:03:35):
Anxiety, stress, overwhelm, PTSD.

Yep. Mhmm. So that's awesome. So that and and
over time, what happens is youbegin to refine a simple target
market Mhmm. Of, like, what wasI like, or whatever.
Specific. Yeah. And then it'slike the the the next best thing
is to talk to your customers andbe like, why why are you seeking
out my service? Why you know,people that paid you like, Eric,
I can tell you, I you're I'm aclient of yours. Mhmm.

(01:04:01):
I wanted to free up hours a weekof my employee, Sean, cutting
our podcast. Mhmm. And I waslike, if I take a a I don't
know, like a 10% cut in qualityand get, you know, 5 hours a
week back, like, I'm down. Youknow? I'm totally down for that.
And it was it's I took a 0% cutin quality and got some extra
enhancements, and it's beenwonderful. But, that's that's

(01:04:23):
all I wanted. I just wanted moretime because I didn't have any
time. Like, how can I free uptime?

Crystal (01:04:27):
Kids. We wonder why.

Eric (01:04:29):
Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. I've done some of this to myself.
Yeah.

Yeah. So so there's a little bit about, you
know, how to discern who yourtarget market is. So over time,
you can ask your customer, andyou can understand, you know,
even people who call you on thephone, you can be like, so, you
know, how can I help you? Andyou have that conversation with
them, you know, and initially,you can't even ask, like, what
made you you know, after youclose the business and do the

(01:04:54):
work and whatnot, you can asklike, well, what made you choose
me? And people will tell you,you know, and, it will help
refine your understanding ofyour target market or what the
needs were that motivated themand how that translated into
somebody Google searching orsomebody responding to a post
you wrote on LinkedIn.
Mhmm. So a lot of the time, thisis just, you know, so a lot of
the time, this is just youunderstand, like know thyself.

(01:05:17):
What is Who said know thyself?Socrates or Is

Eric (01:05:21):
that true?

Someone, yeah. Somebody awesome said that. They
were probably burned at thestake because it was such a such
a an important thing to sell.So, yeah, I I think that, that
is really, I guess, thesubconscious and everything
bubbling up in there. That'ssome of what, the mind doesn't
realize it understands already.

(01:05:42):
You know? The business ownerunderstands a lot more than than
they think.

Crystal (01:05:45):
It ties back to our topic. Yeah. They they know more
about marketing than theyrealize. They just need to
follow that intuition and thatgut and Right. Maybe even not
some of the societal normsbecause sometimes people have
this vision of what we want, butour vision is different than
what they perceive it.
And only us have that fullvision, and I try to tell

(01:06:06):
people, listen to yourselfinstead of other people. And I
think that's essentially whatyou're telling Right. Them is
that marketing instinct comesfrom that subconscious, that
intuition, and and to followthat to get themselves to where
they need to be.

Absolutely. And so I have this concept that is, I
call it the virtuous well, thecastle theory. I have lots of
concepts. They're all in myhead. But the castle theory is
my is my, really the theblueprint of what a successful
business that thrives, whattheir what their marketing
system looks like.
It's, so you've got, like, atthe and this is really fits

(01:06:40):
every service based business,especially, but you've got the
base of all every business isword-of-mouth. Referrals,
people, customers using youagain, that sort of thing. So
everyone generally that has astable business has lots of
word-of-mouth returning,consistent clients. You know,
you've I've been you've been mypodcast manager for like 60

(01:07:01):
episodes now or something likethat. Right?
And so it'll be another 60 andmore. And that is an essential
part of your business stability,being able to grow, having
clients like that, that thatstay and use you on a regular
basis. People use you each monthor, you know, return for
multiple sessions. Right?

Eric (01:07:17):
Mhmm.

And those people will refer others, you know,
over time. And so theword-of-mouth, every single
thing that you do, it's like therock or the foundation of a
building. You, build the thefoundation on that. Mhmm. So
when you whatever you do, if youpay ads, you know, you you
sponsor ads on Facebook, you,build a website, you do it, you

(01:07:40):
know, go to a networking group,everything is just so you can
get customers that will use youagain and again.
Mhmm. Right? And so you'rebuilding that word-of-mouth
foundation. Mhmm. So, there's,you know, the big companies like
GEICO and Allstate and whatnot,they're constantly trying to
pull customers from each other,but they have that stable base
of customers that always usethem, that is that tell their
kids to use them, that sort ofthing.

(01:08:00):
That's why McDonald's tries tomarket super hard to kids to
get, you know, sell chickennuggets because, yeah, when
they're 45 years old, they'regonna love that 20 piece as much
as that. So, we're 39, I guess.But, so the the second, we'll
say the very first story of a ofa building. You know? Mhmm.
We'll do the building analogy.So you got the foundation as

(01:08:22):
word-of-mouth. The first storyis strategic relationships. So
if referrals work, then let'sincentivize strategic partners
like you guys to refer to me.Because Mhmm.
If you guys refer to me inreturn, I will refer to you.
Right? I will want to referbusiness to you. If you guys
refer business to me, that'skinda how that strategic

(01:08:42):
relationship works. Mhmm.
So, you know, I've got plenty ofpeople in our BNI group. That is
the absolute best first layer toadd to any business. Mhmm. Then
beyond that, now I have peoplethat are incentivized to refer
to me. So people go to realestate, caravans, they'll go to
all sorts of things withrelevant people because they're
trying to develop thosestrategic relationships.

(01:09:03):
Mhmm. There are a number of waysto do that, not just BNI, but,
you can, you know, a lot ofmortgage officers will take real
estate agents out to lunch andother things like that. They try
to get to know people so theylike them and trust them and so
on. Mhmm. But so after that,after that strategic partner's
first story, the second storywould be a website.

(01:09:25):
The website is what I call thesecond look. When I meet with
someone or when someone isreferred to me, they oftentimes
will look online for what it isthat I, you know, am I rated 5
stars? Am I, you know, what arepeople saying about me? What
services does my companyprovide? If I don't have a good
website, it doesn't answer thosequestions.

(01:09:46):
They might actually not call. SoI find that some of the best
conversion increase that happensin a business is when you get a
really good website, because youdon't realize how many people
are actually being referred toyou that are not calling you.
Mhmm. And so you will increaseso we we've actually found by
designing new websites for oldcompanies, that their

(01:10:08):
conversions can increase up tolike 20%. Like the week before,
it's 20% less.
The week after, it's 20% more.It's like a huge increase. So
and obviously, that's if youhave visitors to the website
before and after you can measurethat side by side. So, it's a,
it's a really incredible,incredible thing. So anyway,

(01:10:28):
after that, you kind of moveinto what I call these 2 towers
or, you know, you have options,which are, like asset
development

Eric (01:10:35):
Mhmm.

Which is like things like your Google ranking
and, your number of reviewsonline. And then you've got, on
the other side, you've got paidplacement, things like Facebook
ads and whatnot. But if youstart with Facebook ads or ads
on HomeAdvisor, Angie's List, ifyou're a service like a
contractor or whatever, you havea really killer website, but
like nobody knows who you are.You're gonna suffer until you

(01:10:57):
get that base, that base ofword-of-mouth. Mhmm.
Mhmm. So every single thing thatwe do as business owners needs
to be tied back to, how do I getreferrals?

Eric (01:11:05):
Mhmm.

Right? How do I get customers that will use me
again? Mhmm. And, so that thatengine oftentimes is powered by
very external things, likepaying a marketing company to
run ads on Facebook. Or for me,I live in, like, you know,
Google and Facebook are kind of

Eric (01:11:21):
I see. All those things that kinda turn them into, like,
a refer Yes. Sort of thing. Isee.

I see. So all you're looking for are those
customers. And so for me, Ireally like to work in or work
on Google because if somebody islooking for how to develop a
podcast or, you know, how tostart a podcast or best general
practices for podcasting Mhmm.That I can find somebody that's
highly motivated, that'sinterested. If they get to my
website or my client's website,your site, and they read

(01:11:49):
articles, they become they theydevelop a desire.
It's like, okay. Now that I haveI'm armed with information, then
I I'm now ready to do this.Mhmm. I'm just looking for who
to pay. Right?
And so that's that's where youcan actually start to develop
customers. And so for me, Iguess I'm more like a bridge
builder. So I've got Mhmm.You've got like you've got the
motivated customer here, andyou've got the the motivated

(01:12:10):
business owner here. I build thebridge so the customer can will
will walk toward them.
Mhmm. And so Once

Crystal (01:12:16):
your house is not big enough, then you just walk past
it.

Yeah. Yeah. That's right. That's right. So, you
know, you you may need to tobuild that foundation larger
before you can, you know, youcan't build a resort on a one
story house foundation.
Yeah. So that's a lot of thecore of why I love, I love when

(01:12:39):
business owners know enoughabout marketing, that they're
dangerous. Because then they'relike, I could do all this
myself, but I'm too busy. I'mgonna hire you and expect that
you're gonna do a good job. Andthey know enough that they can
tell if I'm doing a bad job or agood job.
Those are my favorite customers.It's like,

Eric (01:12:57):
you

know, people that are stabilized and are like,
okay, now I've had someexperience here. I've hired the
family friend. I paid my cousinfor nothing. Nothing. You know,
they said they'd build me awebsite, and they didn't or

Eric (01:13:07):
Mhmm.

Whatever. And I've I've I paid a $1,000 to this
digital marketing company thatswore they were gonna get me top
of Google, or I did the $100 amonth thing. Like, none of it
worked, and I don't know why.But I just know that I'm not
gonna have the wool pulled overmy eyes again. Right?
Yeah. These are my favoritecustomers because, you know, we
do a good job. Yeah. See it. So

Eric (01:13:26):
Wow. Well, this was a jam packed episode. Dang. This is
this was fantastic. I know we'rewe're a little we're a little
over, but, man, this was likethere's been there's a there's a
directions I would never haveimagined.

I had fun.

Eric (01:13:41):
Yeah. This was this was You can tell you're seasoned.
Oh, yeah. No. I was I was like,man.
I didn't you know, it's funny.I've known you were actually the
one, I first met with when Ifirst joined Bina. You were you
were a visitor host then. Yeah.And so and but I didn't I don't
know.
I didn't know all, like, all allof this about you, I guess, and

(01:14:03):
such too. It's just this is whyI like this kind of platform
because you don't really, like,discover these these these I
know we've had one to ones, butI don't Yeah. Didn't come out in
the same way. It's like a few.So, but, so, Andrew, if if
somebody wanted to get incontact with you, which I feel
like after listening to this,it's gonna be hard not to.
How would they what's the bestway for for them

to do that? You can just go to next level web
dotcom. You can go to so myemail is
andrew@nextlevelweb.com. If youwanna send me an email, but,
yeah, go to our go to ourwebsite, check out our services.
You've got our phone numberthere.
You can give it a call. Mhmm.And You'll

Crystal (01:14:38):
know when you get there.

Yeah. That's right. That's right. And then
tell them you listen to this band I podcast, and and we can
start from, instead of square 1,we start from, like, square 2.

Eric (01:14:47):
Yeah. You're already up to there. Yeah. Exactly.
Foundation's there.
So wow. Well, thank you so much,Andrew. So if you got a lot of
value out of this episode, ifyou know someone who's maybe
kind of struggling withmarketing or struggling with,
you know, finding those thosethose pain points and asking
questions and whatnot, thiswould be a spectacular episode

(01:15:11):
to, send send to them. And thisis one of the, best ways. You've
talked about referral stuff andwhatnot.
It's one of the best ways toactually grow this podcast is
built by building fans for thispodcast. And so and, yeah. So
thank you so much, Andrew.

My pleasure.

Eric (01:15:30):
And, alright. We'll, see you in the next episode.

Crystal (01:15:33):
See you next time. Don't forget to log your single
CEU. Thank you for joining usfor the Business Boost Hour. My
name is Crystal Pravette andthis is Eric Buells. Thank you
for joining us and don't forgetto document your single CEU.
See you next time.

Eric (01:15:48):
See you in the next episode.

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