16. Art Meets Business with Richard Hawk

Ever wondered how art and business intertwine? In Episode 16 of Business Boost Hour join us as we chat with the talented Richard Hawk, a fine artist who transitioned from a marketing communications designer to a full-time artist. How did Richard's commercial design background shape his artistic journey? And what life lessons does he bring to the canvas?

Richard shares his journey of overcoming self-doubt and the dangers of perfectionism, revealing how taking action and "failing forward" can lead to unexpected artistic breakthroughs. We dive into his unique technique of painting on copper, where nature plays a co-creative role. Tune in to discover how these insights apply to both art and business, including BNI meetings.

Richard also opens up about the therapeutic power of art and invites listeners to explore creativity through his work. Ready to boost your creative spirit? 

Check out Richard's work at hawkstudio.com

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Connect with Eric Beels
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Website: www.DifMix.com

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Website: MindsetService.com

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Episode Transcript

Crystal (00:08):
How does art coincide with business? Is there any
relation? In this episode, wemeet with Rich Hauck to talk
about how art, life, andbusiness relate to each other.
Stay tuned.

Eric (00:26):
Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Business Boost Hour
podcast. My name is Eric Beals,and I'm the vice president of
BNI Escondido.

Crystal (00:35):
And my name is Crystal Pravette. I'm the president of
BNI Escondido, and welcome tothe single CEU podcast. Thanks
for joining us today, Rich Hawk.Such a pleasure to have a fine
artist here today.

Richard Hawk (00:48):
Glad to be here. Thank you very much. I've been
looking forward to this.Excited.

Eric (00:52):
Fine artist. So, Rich, before we kinda really get
started, first, I wanna know howdid you how did you get into
finance? Because that's a veryunique, that's a I don't I don't
even know how many fine artistsare in in in BNI.

Crystal (01:07):
Very few.

Eric (01:08):
And and so how did you get into that? And and and and, tell
us a little bit about who, whoyou are and then kind of what
you do.

Richard Hawk (01:17):
Sure. Sure. Yeah. In BNI world, yeah, I I think I
am pretty, pretty, if notunique, at least unusual, and
sometimes I'll even referencethat in the meetings, you know,
because I am kind of, thisinteresting oddity. I've been,
17 years or maybe 18.
I'd actually have to look at thedates, in BNI. And for the

(01:39):
great, bulk of that time, I wasa marketing communications
designer. I have been anadvertising designer for many
years doing branding and printdesign and website design. And
then towards the end of thattenure, a lot of video work, so
marketing videos. Now duringthat whole time and during my

(02:03):
entire life, to answer yourquestion, Krystal, I was also a
fine artist and a pretty activefine artist.
So what what happened is that mymy careers sort of went like
this. You know? The, eventually,the the commercial design career
was eclipsed by the fine artcareer that went like this.

Crystal (02:21):
And then pendulum swung.

Richard Hawk (02:22):
And then about 2 years ago, I said, okay. I'm I'm
changing my designation in BNIto being an artist, a fine
artist. And, that was that was amoment, really. Mhmm.

Crystal (02:34):
There was

Richard Hawk (02:34):
a there was a pretty a pretty big shift. Yep.
So that's that's kind of been mymy trajectory. And, you know, of
course, my career as acommercial designer, art
director, creative director foradvertising cross pollinated
into my career as a fine artistand vice versa too. You know,

(02:57):
they're both creative endeavors.
The commercial application of ofdesign is is very digital. Mhmm.
And the the the fine art part,it can be digital for some
people. For for me, it's it'snot digital, and I can I can
talk, specifically about thatand how that, how that

Eric (03:19):
Well, it sounds like, you know, you're you're in fields
that were that were, not kind ofhad a natural creativity in
them, like the web design andstuff like that too? Right?
There's a there's a naturalcreativity, with that. And,
yeah. And and, actually, we haveright behind me is one of your,

(03:39):
your is this an original righthere or is this

Crystal (03:41):
a Yeah.

Richard Hawk (03:42):
This is actually a giclee, reproduction. Giclee is
a French word. It it it refersto a limited edition print,
which is created using very hightechnology. It's a super high
resolution photograph to startof the original. The original,
this was sold at Art Expo NewYork about, 15 years ago, and,

(04:06):
they captured photographicallyand then it's it's printed on
canvas.
And then I go an extra step, andit would actually paint on the
reproduction. I haven't done ityet on this one. This one is
fresh from the, from the, thethe manufacturing process, but I
will enhance this with someactual paint so that and and it

(04:30):
will be signed and numbered as alimited edition reproduction. So
it's just somewhere in betweenan original and a reproduction
because it does have some painton it.

Eric (04:40):
Oh, very cool.

Richard Hawk (04:41):
It's a swimmer

Crystal (04:42):
Yeah.

Richard Hawk (04:42):
Is the name of this piece. It's been a very
successful painting for me. And,of course, the, the, the whole
reason to do the limited editionreproductions is then you can
share it with more people.

Eric (04:56):
Yeah.

Richard Hawk (04:57):
And you can also share it at a lower cost than
the original was. So that hasall those benefits.

Eric (05:04):
Mhmm. Yeah. And, actually, for the for those, listening as
well too, we'll all make sure toput, links in the description
for for to to these pictures. Sothat way, when we kind of
reference some of these theseartwork pictures that you can,
click on that and and look atwhat we're what we're talking
about as well too. So now today,we, you had mentioned to me,

(05:29):
Rich, that that you wanted totalk about the the crosses
between life and business.
And so what's what does thatkind of what does that mean to
mean to you? And I know you youmentioned that you kind of apply
that and kind of what you do. Sokind of can you expand upon that
a little bit? And what does thatmean?

Richard Hawk (05:50):
Yeah. The the crossover between life and my
business, the business of art,or is, very, very, you know, an
intense part of what I do as anartist because I also teach.

Eric (06:06):
Mhmm.

Richard Hawk (06:06):
So I teach classes and workshops in my studio space
in Encinitas. But even apartfrom that, the the crossover or
the, the commonalities betweenwhat we need to do to do a good
painting or drawing or artwork,the crossover between that and
what we need to do to get alongin life, are are extreme and,

(06:28):
you know, multiple points of ofconnection. So I'll you know,
probably the the best way is forme to start out telling my story
very briefly.

Crystal (06:38):
You

Richard Hawk (06:38):
know, we talked about that that shift from the
digital or the commercial designto the fine art. Well, I was
very successful as a as acommercial designer, art
director, all that, and andenjoyed it very much, but, I
wanted to get away from thedigital. I wanted a facet of my
work not to be digital. I wantedto be able to drip the paint on

(07:02):
my shoes and not have unlimitedundoes as you do on a computer.
I wanted the the traditionalaspect of of of painting.
And, so that was that was mydream for years, and, I did what
a lot of artists do, in that Iwould drive around, thinking

(07:25):
about painting. I would, collectphotographic reference for
paintings, you know, photos thatthat could be the basis for
doing a painting. We call itphotographic reference. I would
buy the art materials and fondlethe art materials and obsess
over that and prepare my studio.I was doing everything but

(07:46):
actually painting.
And, so, what I did to solvethat, problem was I began to
sort of develop littletechniques and little strategies
for myself in in order to makemyself simply do this thing that
I wanted to do. Did does thishave sound familiar to you Yes.

(08:10):
Absolutely. At all aboutsomething we tend to do in life.
Right?
Sometimes the things we wantmost and the things that we
wanna achieve most, we have alot of energy surrounding that.
Mhmm. And we have sometrepidation and, some
insecurity. So we weprocrastinate, and we put it
off, and we don't do it. Mhmm.
That was kind of my situation.So, yeah, I began to develop

(08:32):
these these, littlemethodologies of, you know, for
example, I I noticed, one oneday I had a couple of tubes of
paint delivered that I hadordered from, an art supplier,
and, I thought, okay, I'll just,I I'm I'm not gonna do a

(08:54):
masterpiece. I'm just gonna testthese colors of these these new
tubes of paint. So I I I whippedout a sheet of paper, and I I
quickly did a did a drawing ofa, you know, it was a head
study, and then I grabbed thepaint in the palette, and I was
simply testing the paint. Right?
So I grabbed the brush, and Ibanged out this little painting.

(09:16):
And in the space of maybe 20minutes or half an hour, I stood
back and I looked at it. I went,wow. You know, this is probably
one of the best things that I'vedone so far, and a light bulb
went off. And I realized thatone of the reasons was that I
was able to, lower expectationand not have a lot of a lot of

(09:40):
anxiety surrounding it.
I was just going into pureaction. And that was very a very
powerful, awakening.

Eric (09:49):
Your best your one of so, like, the the work that really
stood out to you was work that,that I guess you didn't really
think too much about on, itsounds like. Like, you just
kinda started painting. You yourpoint slow. Yeah. You're just
basically testing your the theinitial thought was just to
kinda test the paint.
Your action or it'll, veryaction oriented and not

Richard Hawk (10:11):
Exactly. So you you hit the nail on the head. I
went into action rather thancognating about it. You know, we
try to problem solve and thinkour way through everything, but
that that that's not how a lotof things work. A lot of it is
about going into action.
In fact, one of my favorite,slogans or phrases I've ever

(10:31):
heard is life rewards action.

Eric (10:35):
Mhmm.

Richard Hawk (10:35):
And I've tried to apply that in my artwork and in
life, and it's it's, it it'sserved me very well. Mhmm.
Simply to go into action. Often,we don't know what to do or, you
know, we're at a fork in theroad and maybe each fork seems
equally attractive. What do wedo?
Just do something. Mhmm. Go intoaction. So that was that was one

(10:58):
thing that, that helped me a lotearly in the in the art career.

Crystal (11:02):
Kinda what we just talked about with Brian. Right.
And then He was talking abouttaking that first step, How
important it is to to take thatstep and take the action Yes.
And how a lot of people get inthat state like you where you
you knew what you wanted, butyou were a little bit paralyzed
to move it because there werethe pressure was so hard. But
once you release those limitingbeliefs and just kinda did it,

(11:24):
you found the so much joy.
I love that.

Eric (11:27):
Well, it was interesting. Absolutely. So if you if you
didn't listen, we were we were,in in Brian's episode, we kind
of, we're talk we were talkingabout, the dangers of of
perfectionism. And what'sinteresting about this, this, I
think, really complements,really well in in how that, you

(11:48):
know, focusing on not beingperfect actually leads to better
results, it sounds like. And I Ithink that can, you know, I
think a lot of people, fallinto, like, analysis paralysis
into which that can, of course,I think, apply to, you know,
what's the right painting inyour case?

(12:08):
It might be what's the rightbackground, what's the right you
know, get everything perfect,but then you kinda never get it
done when it turns out just kindof, you know, taking that that
that step and just kind of doingit. And you're a natural fine
artist as well too with lots ofexperience. So then when you
naturally do something, you justkind of know what to do right

(12:29):
right away. Right? Yeah.
And so

Richard Hawk (12:31):
it And it becomes like a muscle. The the more you
do this and the more youpractice this idea, the better
it gets because it's cool. Youjust gain confidence, you know,
that you're gonna initially, youknow, have a feeling that you're
not sure what you're doing orwhat what the direction is, but
you you gain confidence knowingthat you can have that feeling
but still do well Mhmm. Becauseit's going into action that

(12:55):
solves your your problem. Andand, yeah, it it's, it's amazing
you you were using the wordperfectionism because just
yesterday, Patty was showing mea thing she stumbled upon on her
phone, on Instagram, and it wasa writer who, was talking about
how perfectionism, is the enemyMhmm.
In terms of writing a novel, forexample.

Eric (13:16):
Oh, yeah.

Richard Hawk (13:17):
She said, you know, you'll you know, you that
first draft can be reallycrappy. You know? It's just
start. Get it get it going. SoYeah.
Very powerful.

Crystal (13:28):
That writer's block can is essentially the same thing as
the block with the artist is,like, that limiting belief
that's saying, if you don't haveit perfect, it's not gonna be
great.

Richard Hawk (13:37):
But Yes.

Crystal (13:38):
The truth is we gotta just start somewhere and then we
can continue to cultivate it aswe go.

Richard Hawk (13:43):
That is right.

Eric (13:44):
Yeah. And I so and I think we can, you know, I think I
would we see people in in in ourour b and I chapter, but I
wonder often kinda wonder howmany people, like, maybe want to
join a b and I chapter and andkind of, like, get started with
their their business going, butare just, like, too fearful to

(14:06):
to join. Right? We see thepeople that are in it. We maybe
see see the visitor see seevisitors, but I wonder how many
people don't even, like, showup.
I mean, just the it's funnybecause, like, so at each of our
chapters, I actually put down,like like, the names of the
visitors because it's nice tosee your name on there. As a
visitor, it'd be cool. You know,you go to a chapter, like, oh,
look. There's my name up there.It's just, you know, it's just a

(14:26):
way to go.

Crystal (14:27):
Of me. Yeah.

Eric (14:28):
Right. And, like, but so many it seems like only, like,
30% of the people that actuallyregister actually even show up.
And I reach out to all of them.I reach out to every I send
everybody an email beforehandand stuff too just to make sure
there's like they they didn'tconfuse get confused on the
link. Sometimes our Well, in ourin person

Crystal (14:46):
it has been the holidays. So I think that's

Eric (14:47):
True. That's true. That's true. But even before that,
though. Mhmm.
And, you know, and and, youknow, I I don't know why. Then
people might have their othermaybe they have other legitimate
reason, but I wonder how manypeople are, like, oh, is it you
know, I don't have my mycommercial down. I don't have my
script down or whatever it is toto to

Crystal (15:08):
It's a little nerve wracking to step into a group,
especially ours with, you know,such a big group of over 40
people. So,

Eric (15:15):
that's true. Yeah. I mean, when I remember when I had first
kind of showed up, I mean, like,my first time at our chapter, it
was I was, you know, Idefinitely I don't think I would
have came if I just saw it. Iwas the only way was because I
was invited and and, of course,the wonderful Philip Jordan was
the one who who who brought mewho's, you know, he's a teddy

(15:37):
bear with, you know, everyone.And so he's a hard person to to
not like.
And so he made me feel supercomfortable, but still I was
petrified the first time I kindof, did it. So that's why it's I
think it's so important toinvite people to chapters and
to, like, really encourage themto step out and not be perfect

(15:58):
and to kind of, you know, takethat action. Otherwise, and and
even if it's, you know, maybeit's maybe your commercial is
sloppy. Maybe it is. Okay.
Great. At least you did it,though. Yeah. Right? At least
you pushed through and you yougave a commercial even if it was
junk or whatever.
Fine. It might be

Crystal (16:19):
scary, but you did it. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric (16:22):
So yeah.

Crystal (16:23):
Like, Rich, he if he hadn't ordered those tests,
tubes and thought, oh, I'm justgonna not have any pressure on
myself. There was a beautifulpiece of art that would've never
existed had he released thoselimitations.

Eric (16:35):
It it

Richard Hawk (16:36):
flowed from a place in me that was deeper than
the the the sort of thinkinglayer. You know? We have this,
you know, the the, cerebralcortex where our thinking goes
on. Well and and and it's, youknow, necessary in order to do a
painting, but it's not the mostimportant part. It's probably
I'm getting out of my wheelhousehere.

(16:57):
I'm sounding like aneuroscientist, but it's
probably something more like ourmedulla oblongata. You know?
It's where, painting comes fromis is a deeper place. It's the
deep you know, the brain stem,and it's the heart. Mhmm.
And if if we wanna get a littlemore metaphysical about it, you
could it's the soul Mhmm. Aswell. So how do we tap into

(17:19):
that? We tap into it by lettingit flow, getting out of our own
way, and not trying to cognatethe painting, but just do the
painting going into pure actionand getting it done.

Eric (17:33):
What would you what would you suggest on on someone kind
of like because I think, onething that's coming coming to
mind is I I do see a lot ofpeople will kinda get get kind
of stuck in a in a job somewhereor they just don't maybe like
what they do but feel like theykinda have to because it's like,

(17:55):
you know, paying the bills. ButI and, you know, I think some
people might might disagree withme on this. I am a pretty firm
believer that, like, you, youknow, you do what you need to
do, but you don't need to youdon't you definitely don't need
to stick there. And I believethat if if you step out of that,
offer another opportunity willcome out of it, but it will only

(18:18):
come out of it if you take thatfirst step out of whatever it is
that that that you're thatyou're looking to get out of.
Like, it won't happen until youtill you take that step.
And, and so, I mean, I thinkthere's, like, a fine line
being, like, okay. What'swhere's that where's that line
at? Like, okay. Do I pushthrough this? Or or do I kind of

(18:41):
or do I do I step out?
Maybe it's paying your bills.Maybe what it is. So I think
there's kind of a a line. Idon't really know where that
line necessarily is. But I thinkI think you might have better
insight of maybe where that thatline is.
I don't know. Maybe you maybeyou do, maybe you don't. I'm not
sure. But,

Richard Hawk (18:56):
well, as I'm listening to you here, I'm I'm
thinking about the fact that,well, you know, let me let me
say that, you know, you'rezooming up to 10,000 feet and
looking at my own career. I Ihave now been a fine artist
selling my work throughgalleries and selling direct,
for 20 years. I have hundreds ofpaintings and collections all

(19:19):
over the world. So that's givenme tremendous confidence. And,
but I I I say that as thefoundation because in spite of
that track record, and in spiteof that, that confidence that I
should have, I still have selfdoubt.

Crystal (19:36):
Mhmm.

Richard Hawk (19:37):
And I think it's universal to the human
experience. We all have selfdoubt. So, you know, taking this
this concept we're talking abouta few minutes ago of, you know,
the hesitation and theprocrastination and the the
putting off of what we know weshould do and what we wanna do,
drilling down into that, why dowe do that? Fundamentally, it's

(20:00):
all about self doubt and it'sabout lack of confidence. Mhmm.
So, you know, just taking thosesteps and plunging in and
building that muscle to knowthat, yeah, we can feel that
way, but still prevail by goinginto action. It it it really
works.

Eric (20:19):
You have a good point on that because, like, you know,
someone in in kind of to go backto what I said, someone in a in
a situation that they don't likebeing in. The reason that
they're not getting out of thatis because, that they they doubt
that they can do anything betteroutside of that.

Crystal (20:38):
Right? A lot of times people get comfortable and
they're not happy, but they'recomfortable. So it's like, which
is which one is more of adriving force, the comfort or
the happiness? Because there's atrade off sometimes. But,
essentially, what Rich is reallysaying is your heart and your
spirit is really what's guidingyou and when you turn into that,

(20:59):
that's when doors open or whendoors close.
And, actually, the heart is4,000 times stronger electrical
signal than the brain. So byfollowing your heart, you can
really go into more of thatstate of flow, which I feel like
is what when those beautifulpieces of art come out as well.

Eric (21:17):
Mhmm.

Richard Hawk (21:17):
I love that. And I was wondering about your
perspective, Crystal. Workingwith people and working with
these issues is something you doevery day, is helping people
break through barriers and, youknow, tap into deeper levels of
themselves. So we I think, youknow, our our work, you know,
kind of paradoxically has has acommonality there. So, yeah, as

(21:41):
I mentioned, I, I am nowteaching as well.
I I do painting classes andworkshops in my space in
Encinitas, and, core, absolutelycore to that, working with
people whether they're I havesome very accomplished artists
who come and study with me, andthen I have some newbies who are
really just adventuring, andthey're very insecure, and

(22:04):
they're like, oh, I reallyprobably don't belong in this
class at all, and they'restarting from that that that
starting point. But, in bothcases, the the, the experienced
artist and and the newbie, theythey we all tend to have these
fundamental issues of self doubtor limitation or in the case of

(22:26):
a very experienced artist, afunny thing happens sometimes
where they get in a rut, andthey do the same thing over and
over again, and they come to me,for ways of breaking out and,
doing things with with freshmind. And, so

Crystal (22:43):
that's away from the painting.

Richard Hawk (22:44):
That's part part of the mix as well. So, what I
share with people constantly asI'm doing the workshops and
classes, I have to find ways tosay it that doesn't sound the
same every time because it's atheme that I need to repeat
constantly is suspend yourjudgment, your self judgment.
And, Crystal, you've studiedwith me. You and and and your

(23:06):
son Luke did a beautifulworkshop with me and did
extraordinary work. And soyou've heard me, you know, say
these things and try to deliverthe message in every possible
way that I could that I couldthink of is, you know, suspend
that judgment, you know, at atevery step of the way and, you
know, take risks and be aboutthe process rather than focusing

(23:31):
on the end product.
And the work becomes great. Youand you and Luke both did
fantastic paintings. Everybodyin the workshop did. Yeah. And
they were

Crystal (23:40):
all unique, but they were all wonderful. And it's
really neat to see that creativeexpression come through, but,
also, like you said, suspendingthat judgment. I did the class
mostly because I wanted my sonto have the exposure because he
is more creative and moreartistic. But I ended up really
enjoying it because so manytimes in life, things are so,

(24:02):
rigid and regimented and, we wehave these goals to meet and
there's things we have to be soconcise on and it was just
really nice to have a momentwhere there was paint in your
hand and, you could have avision but starting to like have
it come on to the paper. Therewas something incredibly

(24:22):
therapeutic about that process,not just creating the art, but
just being in that state offreedom of expression.

Richard Hawk (24:29):
Mhmm. Beautiful. Beautifully said. Yeah.
Something that goes hand in handwith all this are the the rules
of the road of painting.
Mhmm. And this is where mydesign career, was so, helpful
to me. There are there aredesign issues in, in in painting
or or doing a drawing, thatreally are, you know, just as in

(24:52):
driving a car or any endeavorthat we have in life, there are
certain things that you wannaknow before you start. So, yes,
we need to be aspirational. Weneed to get out of our own way
and just let it flow, but thisisn't art therapy we're talking
about.
We we are trying to producebeautiful quality works of art,

(25:15):
and there are rules of the road.There are things, you know, like
establishing the focal point ina good place, you know, 1 third,
usually 1 third in from 2 edgesof the painting, having, a sense
of integration to the paintingwhere the, for example, the the
the subject and the background,are integrated. So you you know,

(25:36):
you've probably seen artworkswhere it's a beautiful figure or
tree or flower, but it lookslike it's kinda pasted on the
background. Mhmm. Simple simplepowerful concept in art.
If we can do things that makethe background have echoes of
the subject and vice versa It

Eric (25:55):
complements the subjects more.

Richard Hawk (25:57):
In terms of color and mark making and texture.
There's all kinds of ways to doit, but that but that powerful
principle of integrating thebackground with the figure or
the subject improves the work,the, you know, understanding of
color, temperature, knowing thata painting can be overall cool
with warm notes or maybe overallwarm with cool notes. These are

(26:21):
some of the some of thestructural things that if we
know, then within thatstructure, we can just kinda let
it flow and and let it rip, andwe're gonna do really good work.

Eric (26:33):
Well, you you know, it it's interesting. So one one
thing that kinda came to mindnow is, that, like, on the
surface, though, it seems like,oh, painter, you can do whatever
you want. Mhmm. Not real. Youreally can't do whatever you
want because that could be atotal disaster of of of a
painting.
Like, the focal point is wrongor the the colors clash or

(26:54):
whatever it it might be. And I Ithink that there's definitely a
lot of similarities actually inin, business as well too because
it's like I think there's, like,right ways, the right things to
say and right right ways to dothat. But at the same time,
there is a certain there's roomto do, kind of make it your own

(27:16):
and do your your your own thing.Right? I thought, no, BNI is
very structured with, you know,all all of our our core values.
Right. And doing all all all ofthose those things. The way I
kinda see that stuff is kind oflike the basics where it's like,
you know, the the Thefundamentals. Focal points, rule
of rule of thirds or whateverwhat whatever aspects on on on a

(27:39):
painting is, then you followthose things. Now make your own.
Do the do the extra thing, dowhatever, you know, maybe do
another different color thatkind of, you know, compliments
that some somebody else, hasthat president

Crystal (27:55):
and vice president and then decide to do a podcast.

Eric (27:58):
Exactly. Exactly.

Crystal (28:00):
Like, there's this fundamental and then we kick it
up a notch.

Eric (28:03):
Yeah. Right. That's why the, you know, fundamentals are,
I think, are are are soimportant. And and, I also think
too, I I imagine that you let meknow if this is right or not,
but I imagine, do you, do youget a lot of people in your art,
when you're teaching that to getabsolutely frustrated with what
they're drawing? Like they, Idon't know.
They, they, they hate the waytheir painting's coming out or

(28:24):
anything like that.

Richard Hawk (28:25):
Yeah. Yeah. Sure do. Usually in the beginning.
And, there you know, I have sometough cases that, you know, are
so, self critical that I reallyhave to go over and and kinda
work with them 1 to 1.
Some some people tend to get themessage and kind of, you know,
the light bulb goes off and theyfall in line with this idea of

(28:47):
just I suggest suspend your selfjudgment. You we can be
analytical of the artworktowards the end. In the in the
ending stages, that's when we dowanna step back and analyze. But
particularly in the beginning,just just let it go. Some people
find that, you know, you know,it's somewhat natural and they
fall into it.
Others are really tough. And forone reason or another, their

(29:09):
upbringing or their their,experiences in life have made
them, you know, very very selfcritical, and it's very
difficult for them to get out ofthat that mindset.

Eric (29:20):
Have you found that people who tend to have a negative
attitude when drawing theirpainting or they're just self
overly self critical that that'salso tends to be a reflection on
other parts parts of their life.Have you found is that has that
been true?

Richard Hawk (29:38):
I think inevitably that's gotta be yep. And this
isn't to say that some of thesepeople who are like this, I can
think of one who's actually a aclose friend, a wonderful
wonderful person, warm,creative, person creating
benefit in the world for others,so a very a very good person,

(30:00):
but still, you know, you know,this this is a very, you know,
strong direction in in in thisperson to to be self limiting
through self criticism. And,yeah. So it it, so okay. Here's
here's a good person and aneffective person.
So has it limited her in herlife? I don't know. It it gets,

(30:22):
you know, it it gets very, veryslippery and and complicated.
But I think I think inevitablythe the crossover, Darryl, I
mean, you think how much morebeneficial a person could be in
the world if they can work onthis aspect of themselves. And
if this person were here on thepodcast, whether she'd probably

(30:43):
say, oh, yeah.
Well, you know, you know, youknow, working with, with Rich or
and, you know, exploring some ofthese principles that actually
has helped me. I think she wouldprobably say that. Mhmm. Yeah.

Eric (30:53):
Well, because I, yeah. It sounds like it could be a, an
interesting interview question,you know, like, imagine an
employee of, like, you know, isyou go into an interview and
then the interviewer goes, hey,paint this. You know, like, you
hand something and go paintpaint this. That would be and
then kinda see how theirattitude is towards towards kind

(31:16):
of, doing that or because I feellike you could it sounds like
you could probably gauge a lotfrom somebody of kind of where
their life is as a whole basedoff of their attitude on the on
the on the the painting. Like,how well, you know, are they are
they sell self self demeaning?
I don't know if I've never heardof anybody trying something like

(31:37):
that, but it sounds like thatthat would be that would be that
would be an interesting thing toto to do

Crystal (31:44):
on test. Yeah. Real life, interview question. Yeah.

Richard Hawk (31:48):
Totally. I think sometimes, when a person has an
intense tendency to be selfcritical, it comes out of the
fact that they hold themselvesto a very high standard. So
here's where it getscomplicated. So it can be, a
signal of a very high qualityperson because they're they're

(32:10):
serious about life and they'reserious about what they wanna be
doing with their life. And thereason they're self critical is
they they hold themselves to avery high standard, maybe an
unrealistically high standard.

Eric (32:23):
Yeah. Well, that kinda goes back to the perfectionism
thing. Right? Because it's like,if you I mean, you you can

Crystal (32:30):
But what he's saying is you can channel it. So it could
go either way. You could havethat perfectionism and it drive
you to create a masterpiece, oryou could have that
perfectionism and it

Eric (32:40):
masterpiece. Well, it's a lack of perfectionism, though.
Right? Like, meaning, like,like, you're not you meaning
you're you're you're not holdingyourself to that standard, like
the testing. Like

Crystal (32:49):
No. Like, if you're he's saying, like, if you're so
perfect, you don't even wannaput a line on the paper, then
you're never gonna get

Eric (32:55):
Right.

Crystal (32:55):
But you're never gonna get past that

Eric (32:57):
first Right. Right.

Crystal (32:58):
Part of the painting, which for me, that was the first
part was kind of, like, gettingit down. But then Mhmm. You
realize, like, I hadn't workedwith oil paints before when you
taught me. I didn't realize howmalleable and how you can go
back in and change things. And Ithink that also applies in life,
like like we said, whensometimes you're afraid to take
that first step

Richard Hawk (33:17):
Mhmm.

Crystal (33:17):
Because you want it to be so perfect. But life isn't
perfect, but we can sometimeserase things or add over or
subtract in order to make itlook more like what we wanted.
But that perfectionism tends tokind of it can't like you said,
I could maybe go both ways basedon how they process things. And,
yes, 80% of everybody's thoughtsare negative every day, and 90%

(33:41):
are a repeat of yesterday. SoThere

Richard Hawk (33:43):
you go.

Crystal (33:43):
We're gonna default to a negative, but it's whether we
teach ourself and trainourselves to come out of that or
if we continue to spiral.

Richard Hawk (33:50):
Absolutely. Absolutely.

Eric (33:53):
So do do you if you find somebody, like, who, who has,
like, a poor, I don't know, apoor attitude, towards their
painting honestly, poorattitude. I mean, that's not
that's not the right wording,but they're they're just self
demeaning, self they're they'renegative. That's kinda what I
mean. That's what I mean by poorattitude. And how do you help

(34:14):
them kinda through through that?
How do you help them work kindawork?

Richard Hawk (34:17):
Yeah. That's a great question. Really, the
primary tool I have is justrepetition. Mhmm. Let's just say
it over and over again.
You know, I'll start out aworkshop and, you know, let's
say there's, most of myworkshops and classes have about
8 people in them. That's kind ofthe max of my studio space,
comfortable Mhmm. Number. Andthere's always one person or
maybe 2 that that have thistendency and they're the tough

(34:39):
cases and they're self critical.And I, you know, I I often start
out, you might recall, Crystal,I talk about being a Pollyanna,
and I'll, you know, on the 1stday or in the 1st hour of the
workshop, I'll say, you know, II I am admittedly a a Pollyanna.
You know, that that characterthat just takes this rosy view
of the world and, and and beinguncritical and just being

(35:03):
positive and being aboutmomentum and trying things and
going forward. And people listenand they nod their heads, but
there's always that often,there's that one person that
really finds that difficult todo. And I'll say, please, you
know, as you work over the next3 days or whatever in the
workshop, try to, you know, selfobserve and self monitor and and

(35:25):
and don't criticize yourself.And, often there's one person
that they just can't helpthemselves. And, you know,
they'll, be working along.
They go, oh, there, I did itagain. And I come, well, what'd
you do? Oh, I, you know, I, youknow, made a black mark or I
made a line, and I really don'tlike it, and I just said, well,
change it. Just change it.

Eric (35:48):
You

Richard Hawk (35:48):
know? We always have veto power. Anything we do
in a painting or a drawing,there's there's practically
never a situation where we can'tundo what we did or do something
to that mark or that passage ofthe painting that's that's,
gonna, you know, change itfundamentally so that it's it's

(36:08):
suddenly no longer a problem.Mhmm. And, but but there there
to answer your question, Erica,there are those people that fall
into the self criticism, andthey'll do that over the through
the course of the workshop.
And all I can do is remind themgently or sometimes more and
more jokingly. Oh, there goes soand so again. You know? And

(36:30):
everybody kind of laughs becauseeverybody knows the message and
this person knows the message,and yet they still find it very
difficult to proceed withoutself criticism. So we wonder
why, you know, why why is that?
And it's probably been trainedinto them Yeah. Somewhat. Maybe
there's been a teacher or aparent or or someone that

(36:51):
implanted on a very deep level

Eric (36:54):
Oh, yeah.

Richard Hawk (36:54):
This idea that, you know, and it's it's it's
almost, you know, okay. I'm arecovering Catholic, so I let me
let me tell you, you know, theidea of sort of self
flagellation, you know, that youhave to kind of whip yourself to
a higher level, you know, as aconcept that's very deeply
embedded Mhmm. With some peoplein art and in life, in my

(37:18):
opinion, not helpful. Mhmm.Mhmm.

Eric (37:20):
Well, what what's the you know, we we we've learned a lot.
You you'll know this more than Iwould, Crystal, but we learn, a
lot of our core beliefsourselves. So, like, you know, 4
The

Crystal (37:32):
first 7 years of our life.

Eric (37:33):
For 7 years? Okay.

Crystal (37:35):
So our brain is in a special brainwave state called
the theta brainwave state. It'sactually the only brainwave
state that's reprogrammable. Sowhat it means is essentially
we're walking around andeverything that we see and hear
those 1st 7 years becomes thecode, the program of what we end
up attracting more of later. Sosometimes you'll see someone who

(37:56):
had a really great childhood andthey'll grow up to be very
happy, have an amazing family.It seems like everything goes
their way and it's like, wow.
They got really lucky. And thenyou'll see some people where
they've had a little bit harderchildhood and they'll have a lot
more resistance and you'll therethose thoughts will continue to
bubble up for them no matterthey try to push it away. A lot

(38:17):
of times there's not actually aconnection in the brain to that
feeling that they would like tofeel. So for me, I was like
listening to what you're sayingand I was hearing like all of
the self criticism and thejudgment, but I run, the word
that kinda popped into my headwas, like, self forgiveness.
Mhmm.
Mhmm. It's like, wow. These II'm a little bit guilty of it

(38:38):
too because I took the class. Iwas being a little bit harsh on
myself, but I was kind of tryingto be aware of it. But,

Eric (38:44):
you're more you're more equipped to, like, understand
what's actually happening.

Crystal (38:48):
To notice it, but also, like, to know that if something
happened to you in yourchildhood, not a lot of people
correlate it. It's like, oh, I'macting like this because I had
something bad happened to mebecause, essentially, the real
true root of who you are is whoyou keep coming back to. So even
though they have that harshcriticism, they really are must

(39:10):
they must be an artist at heartbecause they keep coming back to
it. Something in their heart ispulling them towards it. Their
love, a big part of it, butthere is that one little part of
them that maybe that doubt andit's kinda like having a teacher
that's in kindergarten that,like, one of them talks to you
really nice and one of them toyou really harsh.
They both could teach you thesame thing, but it's the way

(39:32):
that they teach it to you. Andif we've ever had that one
teacher that kind of like you,Rich, would pull you under their
wing and and say, hey. You know?It's not as bad as it looks. Is
it that line?
Let's make it into something, ahappy little tree. I think we've
seen that. But but we can itapplies in business too. Things
happen to us all the time in ourbusiness. We might need to

(39:53):
pivot.
We might not have seen,something happen. Yeah. I mean,
no one saw the pandemic coming,but everybody had to had to
pivot.

Eric (40:02):
Yeah. It's like an extreme version of of pivot finance. On
a global level. Collectivepivots, basically. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Richard Hawk (40:10):
Yeah. Those those are great points. That's a great
perspective. Yeah. There there'sa a phrase I've heard some,
some, teacher or philosopherssaid fail fail your way forward.
Who how do we

Eric (40:22):
Fell forward?

Richard Hawk (40:22):
Fail fail forward. Yeah. Fail forward. Exactly.

Eric (40:26):
I don't know I don't know where

Richard Hawk (40:27):
that came.

Eric (40:27):
I actually don't know where that term came from. I've
heard that term for for, a whileand

Richard Hawk (40:33):
Yeah.

Eric (40:34):
I I really embrace that myself because I I I was
naturally very, like, aperfectionist and and would and
and would, like basically, itwas, like, for me, I wouldn't
even, like, attempt certainthings if I knew I couldn't do
it, like, absolutely perfect or,like, 99 percent or whatever.
Otherwise, I was like, no. Ican't do that because of x y z.

(40:56):
And, and I'd be, like, you know,super nervous. Like, oh,
everyone's gonna think I suck atthis when it's, like, really
doesn't even matter.
Maybe I do, but no literallynobody cares.

Crystal (41:04):
Everyone sucks at the beginning and whatever. Exactly.

Eric (41:07):
Exactly. But, like, even though I was maybe, you know, a
newbie at something, I'd stillbe, like, kind of, like, nervous
about it. Like, like, evenattempting it. And and be like,
no. I can't do that because ofwhatever.
And, and, you know, that thatthat that I had to kind of

(41:27):
overcome that that that thatperfectionism to because
otherwise it's it kind of justdestroys it really it really
limits you very soul soul limitsyou. Oh, so the the feeling
forward, like, when I kind ofheard that I was like, you know,

Richard Hawk (41:42):
it's very freeing or it

Eric (41:43):
is super freeing. And and honestly, when you when you when
you, really dig into, like, alot of the successful people
that you maybe look up to, whenyou kind of like dig into, like,
what they went through, you kindof go like, oh, wow, they like
went through all of this and orthey it's like, you know, so
maybe someone has a somewhat, asa, successful successful

(42:06):
business that, you know, youdon't learn. You don't you only
hear the successful part. Yeah.

Crystal (42:10):
People with the most successes also have the most
losses.

Eric (42:13):
Too. Yeah. Exactly. And and usually more often, they
usually have more losses.

Crystal (42:16):
That they had to overcome and rebuild and but you
have that within you. And, youknow, if you can make it once,
you can make it twice. Yeah.Like a giclee. Right.
Right.

Eric (42:26):
I think it's pretty unheard of that someone, like,
had a lot of a lot of success,from from not failing forward
from them just being perfect thewhole time. Anyone. I don't
think it exists. Yeah. I thinkthat's You gotta

Richard Hawk (42:40):
put yourself out there. You gotta you gotta
stumble

Eric (42:42):
in order to go forward, basically.

Crystal (42:44):
Because then you're in a bubble of happiness, and
that's not reality. I mean, yes,we all wanna be happy, but
Absolutely. But real lifehappens.

Richard Hawk (42:51):
So we are really on topic here. This is
incredible. You know, this ideaof how, you know, art can
parallel life, and there's thiscrossover between the 2. It it
is so so true. And, you know,another thing thing that I was
thinking about is the 2 of youwere were talking is the fact
that, sometimes there's thisthing that happens when you're

(43:11):
doing an artwork that the worstthing can fucking become the
best thing about the paintingyou were Yeah.

Eric (43:17):
That was it. Did you experience those I call those
happy accidents. That happensall the time in video editing.
At some times. Tell you how manytimes when it's like some I like
just make an edit Yep.
That I didn't intend to do. Andthen there's like and then I was
like, woah. This worked out waybetter than I could have
intended. I was like, fantastic.I was like, there's another
happy accident.
It happens all the time.

Richard Hawk (43:35):
It's this sort of flip thing that must be a
principle of the universebecause it happens all the time
where you you do something thatyou didn't intend to do or it
doesn't look as you expected itto look like in an artwork, and
you go, oh, that's not what Iwanted, but then it it you do
something else to it or you lookat it and you get a fresh

(43:55):
perspective on it, and thatthing can end up being the best
thing about the painting. Ithappens all the time in drawing
and painting, and it can happenin life as well. So the beauty
part of art is that, you know,it's very compact and it's very,
it's very immediate and it'sit's right there in front of us.
So life is big and complicatedwith a lot of moving parts and,

(44:19):
you know, we we haverelationships and people in our
lives. It's it's complicatedstuff.
And artwork is is this littlerectangle usually right in front
of you. So these lessons that welearn are very immediate and
very quantified. It's kinda likethe you know, your artwork is
kind of a microcosm, and life isthe macrocosm. But this

(44:40):
principle of failing your way tooriginality and success beyond
your initial imaginings even,that definitely happens in
artwork. And I think, I thinkit's like a muscle.
So if we do it in art, then itapplies

Eric (44:56):
Yeah.

Richard Hawk (44:57):
In life.

Eric (44:57):
Yeah. I think it's a muscle too. And, you know, I I
have found that if there's a ifthere's a certain thing usually,
I think the the usually happensmore where if I need to go to,
like, an event, but and thenthere's something about it where
I'm just like, I really don'twant to go. But I know I need

(45:19):
to, but I really don't want toif that's the key. It's
different from like a gut like Ishouldn't go.
It's more about I really justdon't want to go. Those are the
times when I've pushed throughthat and gone anyways that have
actually

Crystal (45:30):
Thank goodness.

Eric (45:31):
I'm like, make a connection that was like, wow.
If I didn't push through that,it's happened numerous times.
Many times it was a b and Imeeting where I just really
didn't wanna go in my earlydays. It doesn't happen really
anymore, but, like, early earlydays when it because I'm not
really an early bird. So, like,the 7 AM that we do, like, I
have to push I I push I have topush through that.

(45:51):
And there was a few times earlyon when I was in I was like, I
really don't wanna go today. Andif for some reason that day was
it, it was just I didn't wannago. And then I show up and then
it turns out there's, like, avisitor there that I make a good
connection with, or there's a amember. Maybe I I say something
that stands out to a one to amember there every time

(46:13):
something that happens. So likethat hits so now it's queued in
that, like, if I, if I don'twant to go, I'm like, I saw I
have to go now.
Now I really have to go becauseit, cause I've just learned that
that if I get that sense, if Iget that feeling, which is
different, I know we've talkedto the boat. We talked about
this in in other episodes, whichis a different feeling of I

(46:34):
shouldn't do this where it'slike a like a internal gut
feeling like, oh, this isdoesn't sit right. It's it's
more of like just aprocrastination desire, I guess,
then it's just kinda like, Ijust don't want to Sounds

Crystal (46:45):
like you're one step closer to fatherhood, Eric,
because that happens a lot withkids too, where they don't wanna
go places, but once they getthere, they're like, thank gosh.
Thank goodness

Richard Hawk (46:55):
that

Crystal (46:55):
we came because this was the best day of my whole
life. Right. By getting them outof the house, it's like, come
on. We can do it.

Richard Hawk (47:01):
Kids are a great example of that flip we're
talking about. They get so far.

Eric (47:05):
I mean, I haven't I mean, I I work from home, so there's
there's there's times where it'slike, I kinda get like stuck
cooped up in the house and stufftoo. And so, and, like, man,
those times, it's funny. Themore you kinda cooped up, the
more you're like, I don't wannaget out. But I'm like, I feel
crappy. I feel terrible.
It's like, I need to see whatthe remind myself what the sun
looks like or whatever. And thenOh

Crystal (47:24):
my goodness.

Eric (47:25):
Right. But then as soon as I'm doing that now, it's like,
oh, now I feel in in thatinstance, it's you feel way
better now for for getting out.But I think the you know, it it
definitely applies to businessas well where it's like, you you
know, I I if you don't want todo this, you get that sense,
like, definitely that means youabsolutely need to do it.

Richard Hawk (47:45):
We we have that structure. You know, the
structure's there. It's themeeting time. It's every week.
You know?
I I heard this thing when Ifirst joined BNI that I I
absolutely love now, and it'sthat people join BNI in spite of
the rules, and they stay becauseof them. Mhmm. And I really
believe that, you know, I'm I'mkind of a, you know, not much of

(48:08):
a rules guy. I'm, you know, I'man artist and kinda like
breaking out and doing my ownthing. But The wheel breaker

Eric (48:13):
over here.

Richard Hawk (48:14):
That really resonates with me, you know. I
mean, the the rules in in BNIare good. The structure really
is at the foundation of

Eric (48:23):
I'm a I'm a structure person. So, like like, that's
what that's what initially drewme to it.

Richard Hawk (48:27):
To the choir here.

Eric (48:28):
Yeah. I'm a structure person.

Crystal (48:29):
So on your side, Rich.

Eric (48:31):
Yeah. And so I I you know, when I had first came came, I
mean, I had been a part ofother, like, groups before that
were kinda similar, like,referral based, but they didn't
have the structure. And so, youknow, I I think, like, the rules
kinda keep everybodyaccountable. Mhmm. Keep us
accountable to, like, like,going to going, you know, to to
to the meetings and actually,you know, you have, like, okay.

(48:53):
Hey. You haven't been you know,someone hasn't been to, you
know, 4 or 5 meetings in a rowmaybe because they just don't
want to. But then and then it'slike, okay. 1, you know, that
keeps just the members,accountable and just more
quality members. But it alsokind of, like, it it it it it it

(49:14):
pushes you.
It's like, okay. Now I'm gonnaget a mark or whatever. I'm
gonna get an absence if I don'tshow up or whatever. Mhmm. You
know?
And then and I don't want thatabsence, so I push through
anyways. And then because youdidn't wanna go and you didn't
want the absence, now you showup, you realize, oh, there was a
person I should have met. I Ineed I I got the opportunity to
meet with now, or or connectwith a member that I was able to

(49:36):
uniquely connect with them onthat day, that particular day.

Richard Hawk (49:40):
Mhmm. So the action is carrying you forward.

Eric (49:43):
Right. Exactly.

Richard Hawk (49:44):
Staying at home wouldn't get get any of that
done. You know, after 18 yearsin BNI, I'll I'll say 18 because
instead of 17 because DaveLindsey said 18 the other day in
the meeting.

Eric (49:54):
I can actually look that information up.

Richard Hawk (49:56):
He's the guy that vetted me. So it's probably 18.
I have learned that, you know,no matter how I feel, whether
I'm, you know, feeling great andawake in the morning or maybe
half asleep or, you know, maybemaybe had one glass of wine too
many the night before on certainoccasions or, you know, you
know, stuff going on in my lifeor whatever I'm feeling and

(50:20):
thinking, I show up at themeeting and I know I can stand
up and speak for 30 seconds. Andsometimes on the days when I'm
feeling the worst and the mostfoggy and the most hesitant,
I'll stand up and do the 32ndcommercial and, some win the
trophy. You know?
And, again, it's that flip, that

Eric (50:39):
reversal thing. You're like, really?

Crystal (50:41):
I won the

Eric (50:41):
trophy. Are you sure? Is there another Rich Hawker?

Richard Hawk (50:46):
Exactly. Yeah.

Crystal (50:47):
I love it. It does apply, though. Like you said,
that you get that foundation andthen the focus and some of the
the rules that apply to artworkapply to to our real life, and
and we really should learn tocolor outside the lines without
judging ourselves so much.

Richard Hawk (51:03):
Absolutely. There's one thing I I wanna
share because it's so on pointhere, and that's the fact that
when I do the workshops and theclasses, each day, or each
class, if it's a, you know, a 3hour class, it starts out with a
demonstration Mhmm. Painting ordrawing by me, and I film them.

(51:23):
I have a camera set up where I'mrecording it. Every one I do
now, I record it, and then thatbecomes a video that I can share
with the class members.
But, the point is that I have towalk the walk every single class
I do because I'm putting it outthere, and I'm drawing or
painting with a bunch of peoplewatching. And, you know, even

(51:47):
after 20, 25 years of doing thisand my successes and work in
galleries and and so on and andin collections around the world,
I still feel very unconfidentsometimes starting out. But can
I let that be known to these 8people who paid good money and

(52:07):
they're standing there watchingme? No. That's not gonna serve
them and it's not gonna serveme.
Mhmm. So I really do have towalk the walk. I have to pick up
that brush or that charcoalpencil and plunge in and talk as
I'm doing what I'm doing,sharing my processes. And,
again, I I find 90 8% of thetime, I can pull the rabbit out

(52:32):
of the hat Mhmm. By going intoaction and just doing the things
that I know that I can do, thatI've done many times before, I
can do a good drawing orpainting.
And as I if I if I flub or Imake mistakes, I talk about
them. Mhmm. And I talk about whythat's not working for me in the
painting or the drawing, andthen what I'm gonna do about it.

(52:55):
So it's all good. It becomespart of the teaching.
Mhmm. So but, it's been a great,great experience for me and a
great useful, catharsis and aand a and a great learning
experience for me to do theteaching because I've got to do
exactly what I'm tellingeverybody in the class they need
to do. I've gotta Mhmm. I'veI've I've gotta actually walk

(53:17):
the walk and not just talk thetime.

Eric (53:19):
Yeah. I think it sounds like it it it it it it it it it
it's more about, like, learning,how to kind of overcome those
that, like, when when thatunconfidence sets in and what
are we doing? If it's, you know,going to something, going going
to doing a 32nd presentation orwhatever it is And and, and and

(53:42):
more about, like, what kind oflearning how to just overcome
that, like, when that happens.

Crystal (53:46):
Or tuning into what it's teaching you. Because like
you said, sometimes that fearwill drive you to create
something beautiful Mhmm. Ormaybe you can realize that it's
just an old program from someonethat told you, maybe they said
you will never amount toanything or you can't be an
artist, and that littlelingering thought might be in
the back of your mind. But likeyou said, pushing forward with

(54:08):
repetition, the more you do it,the more you're like, hey. I can
do this.
Mhmm. And Yeah.

Eric (54:12):
I think that yeah. That repetition, you know, you you
you you kinda build that buildthat muscle up. Yeah. That's how
you you repeat. I mean, that'swhy we you know, if you work
out, you have reps and stufftoo.
It's repetition. You build thatmuscle. When you do that, things

Crystal (54:26):
Literally repatterned your mind. Exactly. And that's
why they say with young kids,it's really good to give them
lots of small tasks that theycan do when they do these small
tasks, and they slowly begin tobe able to, oh, I can do that
and then they they start to addto it. So, small tasks are kind
of a little hint to give toyourself like if, you need to do

(54:48):
something big, maybe just tellyourself I would need to do 1
third of it or just like thefirst page of it, so that you
can kind of dive in.

Richard Hawk (54:56):
Every everything begins with one step. You know?
Right. Any any journey, youknow, the journey of a 1000
miles begins with 1 house. Onestep kind of thing.
One thing.

Eric (55:04):
Well yeah. And and, you know, even even in, like, the
the BNI meetings too, like, youknow, 30 seconds, like, when I
first showed up, the 30 secondswas I was petrified kind of
doing those that that that those30 seconds. And, like, you you
know, goodness gracious on thethe 8 minute presentation.
Right? That's like the firsttime doing that, I was like the,

(55:26):
it was a, you know, that was abig big stepping stone for me
the first time I kind of did oneof those Mhmm.
Practice multiple times. Thenight before, I was like white.
Like Amber remembers I was like,terrified. And then when it was
done, I was just like, okay,that wasn't so bad. Like, it's
definitely a lot of it's like inyour head.

(55:46):
I think too. And and and, justkind of like being, like, oh,
everyone's, you know, at theextremes, like, oh, everyone's
gonna laugh at me or whateverand stuff too. I'm sure that

Crystal (55:57):
No one has to laugh.

Eric (55:58):
Never. Anyone

Richard Hawk (55:59):
But laughing is good. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Unless it's been a joke.

Crystal (56:01):
Unless it's

Eric (56:06):
Yeah. And, but like, that's that's the kind of the
repetition stuff, though, justto kind of keep, like, if
there's, especially if there'ssomething that you're kind of
like struggling in as well to,like, kind of doing something,
to kind of like build that,build that muscle. I think, you
know, what is the number one,the number one written fear that

(56:27):
people have is like presentingor whatever in front of public
presenting or whatever overdeath, I guess, or something
like that. Right? People wouldrather die than that.
And, I wonder how true thatactually is. Like, if if we came
down came down to

Crystal (56:41):
it back in the comments.

Eric (56:42):
They actually came down came down came down to it. But,
yeah. The I I And

Crystal (56:47):
it sometimes will lead us to, like, a part of ourselves
that is the actual truest partof ourself. So, like, for you,
Rich, you're you what you do asa fine artist, yes, you can
paint with oils, but youactually have a very specific
way of creating art that I findincredibly fascinating, because
it doesn't actually work withthe materials that most people

(57:11):
would use. Do you wanna tellpeople about some of your other
modalities? Yeah.

Richard Hawk (57:15):
That that's a great segue because, you know,
the work that I do in paintingin oil on copper fits in with
with this whole theme of whatwe're talking about, and and
here here's why. Okay. I takesolid sheets of copper, and I
design the painting, and then Ido things, that are creating
part of the image through apatina action on the copper.

(57:37):
Copper will react to acids as asmost people listening probably
know, and you get this,beautiful texture and and blue
green and darkening effects onthe copper in reaction to the
acid. Well, I I use these acidsand actually paint with them and
create sometimes most of theimage with the use of this this

(57:57):
chemical action on the copper,and then I finish it off with
traditional oil paint.
And, that's, that's been a verysuccessful line of work for me,
and it's one of the things thatI that I teach and I share in
the workshops. So the questionis why would I wanna do this?
Isn't painting complicatedenough already? Well, the reason

(58:19):
I do it is because it is a cocreation with the forces of
nature and this business ofcreating the patina action on
the copper. Yes.
You can design the painting andyou can control it, but only to
a certain point. There arethings that will happen on the
copper that are outside ofcontrol, and this fits perfectly

(58:40):
with my, my desire and my mychoice of the way to work
because when when things happenthat are unexpected, then I'm
not controlling the piece. I'mhaving to react to the piece. So
it's it's part of this thisconcept of adventuring and being
open and reacting rather thancontrolling.

Eric (59:02):
Kind of modifying it as it kind of changes, it sounds like,
as it as the as the copper doesthings that you didn't expect it
to do, you're kind of workingaround

Richard Hawk (59:12):
that, working with it. So and as as you mentioned,
Eric, sometimes things happen inthe artwork, which are a
tremendous gift. You look at thething, oh my god. I couldn't
have done that. My human handMhmm.
And heart and mind couldn't havecreated that. That's like a gift
from the universe. Somethinghappens on the surface of the
copper. They go, wow. That'sabsolutely extraordinary, but I

(59:32):
get to keep it.
As the artist, you always haveveto power. You could change it
or cover it up or undo it, butoften we go, wow, that's that's
a gift. I'll I'll take it. Sothis co creative process goes
hand in hand with this idea ofsuspending judgment and
suspending the desire forperfection and control.

Eric (59:54):
Mhmm.

Richard Hawk (59:54):
And, then the act of doing the artwork, the
process of doing the artwork isas important to me, if not more
important than the actual endresult.

Crystal (01:00:07):
Because the art's a cocreation, but so is life.
Right?

Richard Hawk (01:00:10):
Mhmm. Right on. Yeah. So beautifully so.

Crystal (01:00:15):
Well, we know that he's not only a fine artist, but he's
quite eloquent as well. Yeah.

Richard Hawk (01:00:20):
Thank you.

Eric (01:00:20):
Fantastic. So, Rich, if, if somebody wanted to get in
contact with you, how would theyhow would they best do that?

Richard Hawk (01:00:27):
Yeah. The best thing for them to do is go to my
website. It'swww.hawkstudio.com, h a w k,
which is my last name,studio.com. They can see the
work there. They can see somethings about the this
conversation that we've had alittle bit of the philosophy
behind the work.
But, mainly many examples of thework, oil on copper, oil on

(01:00:52):
canvas, oil on panel, watercoloron paper, and charcoal on paper.
Just a quick mention of thecharcoal. The classes that I
that I do in charcoal are agreat, instructional and life
instructional, activity as well,because it is just black and

(01:01:15):
white, or a very monochromatic.We use, sometimes a colored
chalk, but, a very limitedpalette. There's a simplicity
and a fundamental aspect to thecharcoal work, which is really,
really great and really fun andaccessible and very useful for
people.
And all these things we'vetalked about, the lessons that

(01:01:37):
come out of it Yeah. Can be veryclear because there is a
simplicity and I and I and I hada basic, aspect to it being,
charcoal and not having thecomplexity of of multiple colors
that we're working with and soon.

Crystal (01:01:54):
So whatever level of life that someone's at, that
they could explore some of yourclasses and some of your work.

Eric (01:02:00):
Yep. Mhmm.

Richard Hawk (01:02:00):
So I got a few, charcoal pieces. I'll hold them
up. And if people are going tothe YouTube channel, they'd be
able to see them in the thevideo delivery of this,

Eric (01:02:13):
yeah. And I'll put these pictures and the links in the
description as well too. So soif, if you're listening right
now, go ahead and scroll down orlook at the description for
this, this video or this, thisepisode here, and you should see
links in there. But, wow. So,yeah, I didn't realize, you
know, how much we could reallyapply art to, you know, life in

(01:02:34):
this in this way.
When we, you know, sat down andsat down, I had no clue where
this would even go. Normally, Ihave some idea, and I'm just
like, well, let's just kinda seewhat happens. So you're

Richard Hawk (01:02:43):
tempted? You you know, no pressure. But, yeah.
It's more than just, you know,sticking a brush and paint and
putting it on a surface. I thinkwe learn and grow out of the
process of doing art, and that'swhy it's been a wonderful life
trajectory for me and why I lovesharing it with other people.

Eric (01:03:02):
Oh, yeah. I mean, it's such a cool cool outlet and
actually a really good way to itsounds like a really good way to
kind of, like, you know, ifyou're if you're if you're
struggling, maybe maybepersonally, something's not, you
know, just kinda sitting rightin your life, this might be kind
of a good outlet to kind of,like, figure out

Crystal (01:03:19):
Chance for self reflection.

Eric (01:03:20):
Mhmm. Self reflection and kind of figure yourself out a
little bit and such becausethere's so much that can really
kind of, come out to from fromdoing art. So,

Crystal (01:03:31):
which leads in some philosophy there into the art

Eric (01:03:34):
as well.

Richard Hawk (01:03:35):
Yeah. So let me ask you as 2 luminaries of our
BNI Escondido chapter, what'sthe best way to to share this
idea with people? What can I sayor do, or what do you think sums
it up or communicates it best topeople so that I can share it
and help people with this?

Eric (01:03:56):
Of what we just talked about?

Richard Hawk (01:03:57):
Yeah. Yeah.

Eric (01:04:00):
I think, I mean, I think, oh, I mean, it's a hard, it's a
complicated thing to kind oflike summarize in a short area.
I think this is it's not, Idon't know if this is really
something you can reallyencompass in a very short, like
short, you know, 30 seconds when

Crystal (01:04:17):
you're in it in your classes.

Eric (01:04:19):
I think you are too.

Crystal (01:04:20):
Continuing to have those classes, holding space for
those people with the selfreflection. I mean, I guess you
could call in a mindset personto help with some limiting
beliefs. Well, I think,

Eric (01:04:31):
I I I think that

Richard Hawk (01:04:32):
And I will

Crystal (01:04:32):
just let it ex you know, like you said, let it
explore, let it expand, puttingyourself out to the world. This
is the visibility part. So thisis a great place for people to
kinda reach out to you too.

Eric (01:04:43):
Well, you know, I think I think this episode kind of,
like, really did a pretty goodjob at, like, encompassing,
like, the why, I think, behind alot of, a lot of, you know,
painting and charcoal, whateverit might be in such, like, on a
deeper level and just it, like,looks nice or looks cool. Right?
And and I think this episode didkind of actually did a pretty

(01:05:04):
good job at that. And so yeah. Imean, send this episode, to to
people.
I think this would be a good wayfor people to kind of definitely
definitely learn, you know, whowho you are and kind of how all,
and and the good reasons to dopainting and and art that really
helps develop you in more thanjust your skill set of just

(01:05:27):
painting. Right? Like, it's it'sa lot more.

Crystal (01:05:29):
It's not art therapy, but there is always some therapy
in art.

Eric (01:05:34):
Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way to kind of summarize it.
Yeah. Mhmm.

Richard Hawk (01:05:38):
Yeah. Because this format has been great. I
couldn't possibly have saideverything that I've said today
without your very, you know,searching questions and your
pivotal comments. And, so it isa great format for drawing out
some kind of truth to what we'redoing, whatever it may be in

(01:05:59):
business and, in life.

Eric (01:06:01):
Absolutely. Yeah. So, if you, really kind of enjoyed this
episode and, like, this was avery deep level episode, I
think. And, you know, if youknow someone who's actually
really kind of, like, searching,they're they're that, you know,
you you can tell that maybe theyjust haven't, quite, maybe
figured themselves out andthey're still still searching

(01:06:23):
around for what they reallywanna, want to do. They're kind
of trying to find themselves.
This, I think, would be a greatstarting point, for them to kind
of, help, help help them kind ofunderstand that a lot of people,
I think, kind of go throughthat, and it all points that do
have at all points at differentstages in their life. So send

(01:06:45):
this episode to them. This isone of the ways that we really
grow this this, this show is by,sharing it with people and
you're gonna help a friend outby doing that. So, thank you so
much, Rich. And,

Richard Hawk (01:06:58):
thank you both. Yeah. You've been great.
Absolutely.

Crystal (01:07:01):
Thank you to our audience and, we'll see you next
time.

Eric (01:07:04):
See you in the next episode and don't forget to log
your single CEU.

Crystal (01:07:10):
Thank you for joining us for the Business Boost Hour.
My name is Crystal Pravette andthis is Eric Buells. Thank you
for joining us and don't forgetto document your single CEU. See
you next time. See you in

Eric (01:07:21):
the next episode.