Social media and paid search are over-saturated - organic reach is declining, and paid is becoming more expensive and less effective. At the same time, influencer marketing is booming.
Why?
Because if your target audience, already trusts a specific person, and that person recommends your product or service, your business benefits from the trust they already earned.
Like any other marketing method, B2C has mastered it before B2B, but in the past few years, B2B brands are utilizing influencer marketing as well.
In this episode we are talking with Alessandro Bogliari, the CEO and founder of the Influencer Marketing Factory. Allesandro shares practical tips, and best practices on how to get started and grow with influencer marketing.
💥 The detailed process you should follow
💥 What should be your process for different budget levels
💥 Do's and Dont's
💥 How B2B brands are leveraging influencer marketing
💥 and much more...
Connect with Alessandro on LinkedIn
Hi, It's Isar the host of the Business Growth Accelerator Podcast
I am passionate about growing businesses and helping CEOs, business leaders, and entrepreneurs become more successful. I am also passionate about relationship building, community creation for businesses, and value creation through content.
I would love it if you connect with me on LinkedIn. Drop me a DM, and LMK you listened to the podcast, what you think and what topics you would like me to cover 🙏
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Isar Meitis (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Business Growth
Accelerator.
This is Isar Matis, your host,and I'm really super excited
today.
It's a topic I've actually nevertouched, and it's a very
important topic these days thatcan really help businesses of
all sizes and aspects grow.
So social media and Web 2.0created the concept of
influencers.
And influencers comes indifferent shapes and sizes.
(00:22):
They have different followingsand in different industries,
different places around theworld and so on..
However, if you know how to pickthe right influencer that can
have you connect better withyour target audience, it's a
hidden gem.
It's an amazing way to growbusinesses.
Including in B2B businesses, andI know what you're thinking.
(00:45):
You're thinking, well,influencer marketing, it's more
for selling, you know, consumergoods like soap and clothing and
energy drinks and stuff likethat.
Who the hell uses influencermarketing for b2b?
I don't even think it'spossible.
Well, the reality is, it ispossible and companies across
different industries, includingpharma, medical insurance and so
on, are leveraging influencermarketing.
(01:06):
So it's doable and if you wannalearn how to do it yourself in
your industry, either for B2B orb2c, there is no better person
than.
Alessandro Gli to teach you.
So Alessandro grew theinfluencer marketing, his
influencer marketing factoryagency to eight digits in just
three years.
(01:27):
He works with companies likeGoogle and Meta, so the biggest
names in the world, and he'sconsidered a global expert on
influencer marketing.
So we are in amazing hands tolearn about these topics
together.
Today we're going to talk abouthow to successfully launch and
run influencer campaigns indifferent budget levels.
And yes, we're also going totalk about how to do this for
(01:50):
B2B companies with some examplesand use cases on how that can be
done.
So it's a new topic for me.
It's a really important topicthese days in general, when the
regular digital marketing is sooverpopulated and so, Dense that
it's very, very hard to get newstuff out there.
So it's a new channel that ifyou're not using, you can
(02:11):
definitely try.
And if you are using that cangive you additional tools and
ways to do it.
Even better, get ready to takesome notes because this is gonna
be high speed.
I spoke to Alessandra, anamazing onboarding meeting, and
Alessandro, I'm so excited andhappy.
Welcome
Alessandro Bogliari (02:27):
to the Business Growth Accelerator.
(03:28):
Thank you.
Uh, love to be here..
Isar Meitis (03:30):
Let's go back a little bit before we jump into
the details.
When did you figure it out?
When did you figure out thatthat influencer marketing is a
big deal that is not leveragedenough that drove you to start
Alessandro Bogliari (03:41):
your business?
Absolutely.
so I was actually stillstudying, doing my master's
degree.
I was, living in Copenhagen,Denmark, in the cold of Denmark,
and, spent a lot of time indoorcrunching about like, you know,
numbers and data and I, Ialready knew that something was
called influence for marketing,but I would say that was really
about the brand awareness,right?
So back in the days I'm talking.
(04:02):
Eight years ago it was still,you know, putting, you know, a
face usually on social media,telling you to buy a certain
product.
Yeah.
But knowing how much to pay aninfluencer was really, you know,
a big black box.
Right.
You, you, you, you got into thatand, more or less you had some
way to, you know, figure it out.
There was a lot of gifting, andso long story short, what
(04:22):
happened is that I had to writea thesis about, you know,
something and I chose influencefor marketing, and I, I, I came
up with a really easy.
I don't want to even call italgorithm anea easy formula to
calculate how much to paysomeone on Instagram based on
criteria such as number offollowers and engagement rate
geolocation and industry.
And so I built all my thesisabout this is growing, but we
(04:44):
have to start putting some dataand science behind that.
If you calculate ROI and arrowson Google ads, you should be
able to do the same also forinfluencer marketing.
So it started from thatperspective, and then I started
working with other people.
You know, in the industry.
And, a few years later when Iwas ready, it was like, you know
what?
I can start my own agency, theInfluencer Marketing Factory.
you know, I just started with acouple of people, now we're a
(05:06):
team of 50 between the US andEurope, working with some of the
clients that you mentioned thatbefore.
But yes, it was a bigopportunity, but still it was
missing some data points.
It was about like understandinghow much you can get out of it.
That was ma mostly like, youknow, my, my main thesis, you
can use influencer market in aserious way, you know, just as a
nice to.
Brilliant.
Isar Meitis (05:24):
I, I really like this from two different
perspectives.
One that you actually startedthis from an academic
perspective versus an actualbusiness to begin with.
Yep.
And I also like, I'm a very dataoriented person, and a lot of
times when you're dealing withpeople mm-hmm.
it's very hard to put thescience back into it, right?
Because it's like, it's more ofa relationship building, brand
(05:45):
awareness kind of exercise.
And you're saying, no, this is amarketing channel.
You need to be able to compareapples and apples.
If I'm gonna put$50,000 on thischannel, or$50,000 on this
channel, I would like to know inadvance, roughly hopefully what
the ROI is going to be versus,okay, I'm gonna put 50,000 of
this thing and I'm hope it'sgonna do something, and then
(06:05):
$50,000 later I will know.
So I love absolutely everythingyou said.
Let's start drilling into thisthing.
Yeah.
If I'm not, if I've never donethis before and I'm a great
example because I haven'tmm-hmm.
how do I even get started?
Like how do I define a budget?
How do I find the rightinfluencers for me in order to
(06:27):
even test this thing out?
Alessandro Bogliari (06:29):
Absolutely.
So first of all, I know thatthis, you know, might be of
course, common sense, but Irealize that many brands and
also individuals don't do that.
You have to spend enough time tolike, you know, look what is
happening nowadays on socialmedia.
Each social media is different,right?
LinkedIn, especially for theB2B, is pushing a lot of content
creators out there.
In fact, they, last year, theycome up with the creator mode.
(06:49):
I also use, it is really goodfor organic reach and to connect
with people, you know.
But then what is happening, forexample, on YouTube, what is
happening on TikTok, right?
Just these days that TikTok ispushing longer content, right?
They're trying to you know,compete against YouTube, for
example.
And in fact, they're giving alsoa new type of, like TikTok found
for TikTokers that want to go,like more longer form, what is
(07:10):
happening on Instagram reels andso on.
So first of all, I would gothere and spend enough hours to
understand.
Too many times to have a, anidea of what influencer market
and it is, uh, maybe based onthings that you read online, for
example, or a friend of yourstold you something, but the best
way, as in anything right to tetest yourself and even just.
before Listen to conversations,right?
Look at the, niche audit systemmight be existing, and
(07:32):
especially in the b2b.
I know that we're gonna go morein detail later, but there are
specific niche, right?
People that communicate on notonly on social media, but also
on this core channel.
Slack channels.
For example, Subreddits you canget and gather all that data
first to understand what ishappening, what people want to
see, what they don't like, thedo's and don't, and then use
those sort of rules and trends.
(07:54):
Then to bring them on socialmedia.
The worst that you can do isjust go out there and think that
you already know.
Start posting things thatactually can backfire on your
own brand.
Isar Meitis (08:04):
Interesting.
So you're saying it all starts,like, basically like anything is
business with good research.
Mm-hmm.
what do I research for?
So how do I find theseinfluencers?
Just start and see who isgetting more, engagement.
Like how do you identify theinfluencers in your industry?
And I'll, I'll add a little bitto the question because at the
end of the, day It's not aboutthe influencer, it's about the
(08:28):
audience they reach.
Exactly.
Right.
So how do I, how do I figurethis part out?
These are great point.
This is also what I say all thetime.
Do not only focus on theinfluencer or the content
creator because, what I say allthe time is this.
For example, imagine someonethat, is, you know, from the
United States, right?
So, they, you know, they have alot of like, you know, US based
audience, but for some reasonthey're traveling, for example,
(08:50):
to Europe, right?
For one year.
If you look at the geolocationof the influencer, they're gonna
be, let's say, you know, Londonfor example, right?
Or Paris.
That doesn't mean necessarilythat their audience is located
there.
So you might look for someone inParis and looking for French
customers, for example, to go toa specific event or buy
something locally, but theiraudience is still in the us So
(09:11):
of course you want to have atouch and fill the influencer.
Looking at other data, such as,for example, historical data in
terms of conversions.
For example, if you're lookingat software downloads or app
downloads, how many, forexample, of your audience were,
was you were able to translatein customer base and so on.
So, of course, historical datainfluencers, it's really
important.
But as, as you correctly said,looking at also of the audience,
(09:34):
right?
Certain you can do it.
I would, I would say that unlessyou use, a platform that look at
the demographics, usuallyworkspace on sampling of data,
right?
So you cannot analyze as, as asoftware, like a million
followers.
But usually the softwares theylook at maybe 1,000 2000 people
analyze their gender age,usually based on machine
(09:55):
learning and ai, you know, likesoftwares that they use,
geolocation of these people andso on.
And again, unless you have asoftware that you can use, there
are plenty out there.
You know, those used by, youknow, bigger companies up to,
you know, those, SaaS that youcan use for$50 a month.
It gives you a really goodindication.
Too many times still people gomaybe on, you know, like on
(10:15):
Instagram for example, orYouTube, and they look for a
specific topic.
They find the person.
But they have no doubt about it.
And I always like, how can youactually understand if this is
the right person?
And one challenge, for example,is LinkedIn I love LinkedIn but
it's still a bit difficult tofind the right people because
there is not really, you know, asearch engine.
Right.
for content creators as I wouldlike to see.
So it would be interesting tosee in the next years there are
(10:38):
gonna be more of these platformsalso giving you demographic data
and psychographic data ForLinkedIn influencers, that would
be really, cool Interesting.
Can you give a few examples ofthis software that, that are
available to the public and notif you're Google, that you can
use in order to find data aboutaudiences of people?
Alessandro Bogliari (10:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there are manywell-known like, hype Auditor
for example.
It's one, mo Dash is anotherone.
there are like really a lot ofthem every, to be honest, still
up to these days, every daythere is a new one coming out.
Those are mostly like, you know,two identify influencers, but
then there are like big oneslike, uh, Green, for example, or
Maverick that are only oneplatform.
(11:19):
Usually, again, you know, usedby maybe bigger brands where you
can not only identify theinfluencers, but you can
actually track everything.
we, as an agency, we do, forexample, we have an hybrid, so
we use certain platforms to findthem, but then we created our
own ways to track everything.
but apart from identify them,that is really important that
you can understand all thesteps, like all the negotiation
involved, agreement, legal, youknow, there are so many things
(11:42):
behind an influencer marketingcampaign that people do not
realize.
They're actually very timeconsuming on the one end or on
the other.
You need to have knowledge aboutwhat is happening, what are you
doing too many times, no matterthe wrong price, for example, or
something to I and so on.
So having like, you know, the,more knowledgeable like, you
know, people that are workingevery single day on that might
be really helpful, especially ifyou're new to.
Isar Meitis (12:02):
Awesome.
So it, it's actually a groupsegue to the next step that we
wanted to talk about, right?
So we said, you said research,we kind of figured out the
research, we found the rightinfluencers, probably more,
hopefully more than one.
What's the next step?
So I, I found a few people whohave the ears and the eyes of,
of my optimal audience.
What then?
Alessandro Bogliari (12:23):
Absolutely.
So again, you know, I'm mostlytalking about, on the B2B side
because again, you know, the B2Cside, it's, I don't want to say,
I mean, it's easier, right?
Because Yeah.
First of all, you have morepotential people, right?
That can fit your needs.
Sure.
In the b2b, it's more like it'sniche.
Usually prices are gonna behigher.
Why?
Because you are talking withprofessionals, they might
already.
(12:43):
Main job.
So if they do this and they doit, first of all as an extra
sometimes or as an additionalincome, and two, they have an
authority in their space.
So they cannot just say yes toeverything.
If you are like an influencerfor the B2C and selling a pair
of shoes, whatever, literallyhave maybe, you know, like an
authority that can be destroyedbecause you said something
(13:03):
about, you know, new shoes thatis not perfect.
You know, when it comes to b2b,you have a reputation right in
your space.
So first of all, before Youknow, finding the right person.
Also on the other side, youmight have someone being like,
you know what, I don't feel thatis the right fit for me.
And usually they're moretransparent on that.
But to get back to what you'reasking me on, on the next steps,
it's absolutely crucial to be onthe same page from day one.
(13:25):
so apart from legal, and theagreements that usually have,
there is a typical agreementabout, you know, media rights
and you know, like what you cansay, why not?
And so on.
It's really important to give toeach content creator and
influencer a scope of work.
And you're gonna go very indetail.
So the more detail it is thefile and the briefly you're
gonna give the better it is.
So there are nomisunderstanding.
(13:46):
And that usually includes, forexample, how many videos do, do
you have to create?
Is there anything extra?
Such as, for example, you know,like appear on a podcast.
Do you have to add a link inbio?
And if so, this is the UTMparameters and the Bitly that
you have to use and this is thedeadline.
By that time, you cannot, you.
Remove that for six months.
If this is the amount, and it's,let's say more than this, you
(14:07):
cannot work with, anothercompetitor for next, for
example, three months.
So the more detail you go thebetter it is because too many
times, you can, you know, getany sort of misunderstanding.
and then, you know, things gosouth, and as you said at the
beginning, it's a people topeople.
Even if it's b2b, there isanother person in front of you,
with their own scheduling, theiragenda and so on.
(14:29):
So I would say that the, thesteps are really important from
day one.
It is not to rush it, but to beon the same page.
It is better to catch anypotential mistakes or, you know,
potential problems in the futurefrom day one.
So once identified, the nextstep should be absolutely going
to legal and agreements be onthe same page about dos and
downs.
And, only after that startreceiving the first draft
(14:51):
content that you, and, you know,if you're an agency you would
like, you know, work togetherwith the company.
If instead you're a companydirectly working with the
influencer, you're gonna startgoing a sort of.
You know, I don't want to say aloop about, a way to optimize
the content up to both, youknow, like parties are happy
with it.
And then, you know, there aremany other steps after that.
But that is, I would say, thecrucial part to do for every
(15:14):
type of campaign.
Isar Meitis (15:16):
Awesome.
I think this is very solidadvice.
Let's, let's move to the budgetside of things, right?
Yeah.
So what is a, if I'm justgetting started and I wanna test
the water, What is a reasonablebudget to start with and then
what's like, okay, this isworking great.
Mm-hmm.
how does that usually evolve andwhat are the differences?
Mm-hmm.
that I will ask for or do withdifferent levels of
Alessandro Bogliari (15:38):
budget.
Yeah, absolutely.
So first of all, big difference,as I was mentioning before,
between B2C and b2b.
In the B2B side, usually if youtalk about people in the tech
space, for example, back in thedays with crypto, now we are
seeing less of that, right.
for obvious reasons.
But I would say that, in decadesthese people already have a job
(15:58):
usually, or they can just choosea bit more, right?
They can be a bit picky.
And so usually the type ofbudgets that you're looking at,
It's definitely higher.
In the B2C side, instead, youcan have different ranges, but
my main two, if I have to divideit into like just super easy,
would be you are entering in themarket with like, something that
(16:19):
is, let's say$5,000.
Okay.
Really small budget.
We, for example, as a, as a, asan agency, we don't work with
anything that is usually below,let's say,$20,000.
There's a test budget thatusually lasts for a month.
Why?
Because.
In that amount, we, you havealso to consider our fee, and
the majority of the money goesto the influencer.
So if you have like somethingthat is, let's say$5,000, a
(16:41):
thousand dollars, right?
My main like, you know, piece ofadvice is to test it out
yourself.
You are gonna definitely gethurt the first time because it's
wrong, right?
You don't know about the prices,you don't know what has involved
to do things, but at least you,you sort of like, you know, You
get into that yourself and youunderstand terminologies, how
(17:03):
people, like to negotiate oncertain things, what is
included?
And only ones like, let's sayyou built, you know, something
and you working with five to 10influencers, right?
on that money.
First of all, you don't have topay an agency like us, for
example, right there, usuallybetween 15 and 20% that you can.
Either to an influencer or touse for paid media, for example.
Because another cool thing ofinfluencer market is that you
(17:25):
can actually boost organiccontent that is working.
Sure.
And drive traffic.
So that is like, again, thepeople that are still figure it
out.
And I would say that if you gowith an agency with a so low BA
lower budget, like might befrustrating for both parties
because you have certainexpectation.
But at the same time,unfortunately, influencer market
is not anymore as it was fiveyears ago or eight years.
(17:48):
People want to get paid more andmore, right?
Like the market is going thatdirection.
So unfortunately you wouldn'teven get that much with like,
that type of money.
And so I think that expectationfrom day one are really
important.
Instead, if you have, let's say,you know, 15, 20, 30, 50, we do
have clients that give us likesix digits, other seven digits
type of projects.
(18:08):
So that is the case.
You already tried it out.
You think that it has, you know,like a lot of opportunities, you
can understand that, you know,you know how to track things.
And it might be that you don'thave anyone in your company that
can help you do that, or youstill need more people.
Whenever work, let's say on acampaign with 50, for example,
(18:29):
right?
Different influencers.
It's really time consuming.
there is a lot of negotiation.
There is a lot of.
Exchanging like rates and ideasover email.
Sometimes with even youngerpeople, you will not communicate
with them on email.
You will do it on iMessage, youwill do it on WhatsApp, you will
do it on a Slack channel.
You will do it on a anywhere,right?
But, but email with a lot ofyounger people.
(18:52):
So you have to realize that it'sthree time consuming.
Between, again, you know, gatherthe information, the brief, the,
you know, the, the, how muchshould I get paid for this and
so on.
And if you don't have anyone inthe company that is just
dedicated to data, is gonna betrying to use maybe let's say a
marketer in a company, try to.
Had some of their time here andthere, but this person might not
have a knowledge about theinfluencer marketing and so we
(19:14):
might be double charged forsomething.
It, it might, you know, like,not seeing something really
important on the contract and soon.
So usually companies come to uswhen they want to scale up their
game.
So again, long story short, ifthen a budget, yet we go by
yourself at the beginning toreally understand things and
only when like you are reallyready and you have like 50 k,
hundred K and so much more.
(19:36):
Fantastic.
You should use an agency becausewe already know what to do.
We know the prices in the, inthe industry, we know certain
terminology that are important,and also we're reluctant update
to the same day about what ishappening, right?
We, we, we are in the loop ofthe trends and instead you as a
brand to have to come up withlike, you know, okay, what is
happening in the industry?
is this regulation still on?
(19:57):
What about the new trends?
We do that for you.
Right?
So there is, if I had to again,split it in two macros, that
would be the.
Isar Meitis (20:06):
Again, great advice.
I, I wanna say some, a fewthings about what you said.
First of all, I think ingeneral, starting in-house and
doing stuff yourself, Is greatin the beginning because it
gives you a little more depthonce you go to work with an
agency, and this is true in anytopic, like before you go and
hire, I dunno, any, any otherthing, try to do it in-house.
(20:30):
Try to get your, your, you know,your feet wet and your hands
dirty, learn what's going on,and then you got a better
understanding.
Once you got to negotiate, onceyou come to ask for things, you
are much more educated to do theright things.
That's one aspect of it.
The other aspect, which is moreof a follow up question, you
talked about these level ofbudgets, what do they actually
(20:50):
buy me?
So let's take two entry points,right?
So let's take$5,000 a month.
I got$5,000 a month that I'mgonna use myself.
What should I expect in thistimeframe?
So we are in, you know, March of2023.
What should I expect to get for$5,000 working with an
influencer?
What should I.
Paying$20,000 a month to maybean agency to help me do.
Alessandro Bogliari (21:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
So first of all, it's for me,unfortunately possible to tell
you, let's say a, a menu item,right?
Type of thing.
Okay?
With 5k, this is what you canget.
I can give you more on anindication of what to expect if
you do it yourself.
Or for example, with an agency,depending on the budgets, if you
put in yourself only, let's say$5,000, first of all, don't put
all your eggs in one basket.
(21:35):
We've been seeing that foreverything in the markets
nowadays.
The same would be also with, in.
Why, if you look only atmetrics, that is only a part of
the indicators, right?
About the potential influence ofsomeone.
So for example, if you say, oh,I really love this person, and I
see them everywhere, and theyhave, let's say, you know, a
million followers on whatever itis, and you go all in, that
(21:57):
person might also do the, youknow, fantastic job.
But because of the algorithmthese days, like, you know, try
to shadow banner if there is anadvertisement, if the video is
posted, let's say on a.
Where usually the audience ofthe person is not really that
active, but the brands stillwant to go that day.
There are so many things thatcould happen that you are
external factors that you cannotreally like, you know, control.
(22:19):
So our, our, our advice, nomatter the budget, try to, you
know, diversify them aspossible.
Your sort of investment indifferent.
Or influencers, maybe take fiveof them and give them a thousand
dollars each.
And it really depends by theindustry.
As I was saying before, in thetech space, for example, really
high price, if instead you arelooking at, b2c, it's something
else, this, the people with thesame numbers can give you.
(22:41):
Totally different prices.
Why?
Some of them might beindependent influencers, so they
can give you maybe a lowerprice.
If instead they are representedby an agent, the agent will GI
will ask you for 20% more.
So that is already something totake in consideration.
For example.
So for the small one, with the5k, you mostly have your own
work.
So you are also have to considerit like your.
(23:02):
Sort of like, you know, hourlyrate if you do it by yourself,
all the time for negotiation andso on.
What to expect.
Difficult really to say.
But imagine that usually thetypically is maybe, you know, a
video or, let's say 32ndintegration on YouTube.
This is it.
And you're gonna get, let's say,a link in bio for 24 hours.
You know, again, this is justlike really,
Isar Meitis (23:21):
Yeah, very, very broad
Alessandro Bogliari (23:22):
brush.
Very broad, right?
Because it's super difficult tobe honest.
The other day I was looking atcertain data of people that were
paying some people with the samenumbers.
Someone is asking 2000 andsomeone else is asking 12,000,
right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's our job to, to negotiate.
But when it comes to biggerbudgets and usually use an
agency, the good thing it isthat you mostly like sit down
and you have the others doingall the work for you, right?
(23:43):
So as an agency, you know, wetake care of.
Come out with, ideas, forexample, and the storytelling
behind the, the, the, theproduct or service that you want
to offer.
We identify all the influencers.
We reach out to all of them.
We help you negotiate the bestpricing.
We try to put in, for example,media rights.
The good thing of influencermarketing, especially also in
the b2b, if you think about it,it is that a lot of the times in
(24:04):
the B2B space, it's difficult toget this.
And instead, if you can get itfrom an influencer and you pay
for the media rights, you canuse it, for example, for a
webinar, you can use it on yourwebsite under testimonials.
Yeah, you can boost it on socialmedia and so on.
So when you pay for more, youalso get more, you get all the
relationship right that are in asmoother way co you know,
(24:26):
compared to maybe going byyourself.
we have all the legal agreement,sort of templates that we know,
you know, like how to use.
We know what is more or less theprices that you might pay.
And also the good thing is thatespecially in the B2B space,
there are not that many people.
So if you go through an agencylike us, you are able to
identify actually the rightpeople or talk with your agents.
Give them every single monthsomething and we're gonna get a
(24:49):
preferred rate.
So instead of going 1 0 1 allthe time and having, let's say,
$5,000, we can tell them, whatif we give you 50 K around the
year, more or less, because thisis what we can expect, but you
give us that cost for 4,000instead of five, but we're gonna
give you more jobs right.
During the year.
So again, it's, so it's similarrelationship, like, you know,
based, I would say is a, is atype of.
and lastly, we also take care ofmanage all the campaign again,
(25:12):
50 people, a hundred people.
We take care of everything, allthe management, all the
tracking.
So we have all systems to lookat Proma codes and U T M
parameters and Beatles, right?
And that help us to identifywe'll, Which were the best
performance for the campaign.
So if next time you want to runit again, we're gonna tell you,
you know what, out of 10 people,out of 50 people, these were the
(25:33):
top five performers, let's usethem again.
And lastly, we finished with anROI analysis of the campaign.
And, and what I want just to sayoverall on this is that
influencer marketing, you cannotlook at that.
Like, I put$1 in and the sameday I get$10 out.
Right?
It doesn't work like that,right?
It's not, it's not like, youknow, it's really about the
behavior and psychology of thepeople.
(25:53):
So it's one of the main touchpoints, and especially in the
b2b, you might not say yes to asoftware, right, just because
you just checked that YouTubevideo.
But if in your journey ofresearch about a new software,
for example, you also.
Three different people onYouTube, one on TikTok and one
on a podcast, right?
You read a, a blog post aboutsomething that always refer to
(26:14):
the same software that is one ofthe main touchpoints you might
then convert in a month.
But also because of thatinfluencer, you were able to,
and with cookies, you're stillable to look at, okay, this
person brought me in and maybethey offer me, let's say 30% of
discounts on the first year.
Something like that.
So again, there are so manythings happening at the same
time, and that's why tracking isreally, I.
Isar Meitis (26:37):
Awesome.
I, I wanna say something myselfand then when I wanna ask you a
deeper question about tracking,and then we're gonna dive into
actual B2B examples.
Yeah.
But the thing I wanna say myselfthat in general, in these kind
of marketing, so, you know, I, Ihelp companies grow businesses
through, through podcasting andthrough live shows on the
internet.
And it's the same kind of story.
(26:57):
There is no quick, oh, you, youput thing online and the next
day you get a click and thenyou, there's a conversion.
it's a very different kind ofthing.
It's a longer.
And there's a big, bigdifference between, you know,
the data that is, that isdirectly correlated to business,
and that is more qualitativedata, sorry, more quantitative
(27:18):
data.
I've seen that many clicks iswhat's happening in the funnel
versus the qualitative data thatyou can start seeing.
And the qualitative data thatyou can start seeing comes from
things like how many peopleengage with my content on the
right channels on social media.
Is it the right people?
Are the right people that are mytarget audience, engaging with
the content because I did thatthing that I did not do before.
(27:41):
It also connects very well towhat you said before that you
said, don't put all the eggs inman basket.
You did one great guy that has alot of access.
A lot of people make decisionsbased on context, and the
context in many cases issomebody who's like them.
Same size of company, same placein the world, same accent, same
sex, same.
(28:01):
ethnicity.
Ethnicity, you know, whateverthe case may be.
If you have one influencer,doesn't matter how big he is, he
may connect on an emotionallevel, which is a small group of
your audience.
You have five or six, maybe eachand every one end up doing less
stuff for you.
You a, have more eggs and morebaskets, like you said.
One can be on TikTok, one couldbe on YouTube, one could be on
(28:22):
LinkedIn, but the other is somepeople will connect with
different people and you'llstart seeing, going back to that
qualitative data, which ispeople are engaging with this
content.
People care about the thing thatwe did, which over time we lead
to people wanting to work withus.
It's at the end of the day, it'sa trust building.
(28:43):
Experiment, right?
It's how do I build more trust,leveraging people who already
have developed trust with my,the right audience.
So having that mindset in placeand also then the tracking in
place is a very big deal.
Which leads me to the trackingquestion.
Mm-hmm.
what are the things you trackand along what timeframe?
(29:04):
During this process, like whatare your leading indicators that
a campaign is actually doingsomething before you pour more
money into it?
And then what are the thingsthat are the next steps that
you're looking for in order tosay, okay, probably if we keep
on doing this in three months,this is what's gonna happen, or
in six months, or
Alessandro Bogliari (29:22):
whatever the timeline may be.
Yeah, so I would say that in thepast years we've been seeing
more brands and companies movingfrom brand awareness metrics,
right.
Also called vanity metrics tosomething that you can actually
have as a converser, right?
Yeah.
So it really depends by theindustry, but I would say there
are some that are really easy totrack and some others that be
more tricky.
The easiest one I would say areapps because you can easily use
(29:45):
third party to track things,singular or net apps flyer many
others.
We work with a lot of apps, bothB2C M b2, And that is the
easiest way you can, boost acampaign, let's say on TikTok or
YouTube or Instagram, and sendthe people to download the app
that are cleaning the app store,for example.
And in that case, you are gonnause as an influencer dedicated
(30:06):
link.
And anytime that someonedownload the app, it's gonna go
back to you.
So that is like really tracking1 0 1.
Works well.
The same could be also for bothB2B or b2c when it comes to
promo codes or discounts codes,for example, maybe.
And usually what I recommend allthe time as a brand is use and
if there is 10 sensitive.
Because the worst thing thatcould happen with influencer
(30:26):
marketing is that you go out,but then.
Yeah, like if the idea, idea isthat you can, you know, like,
use a certain pro code all yearlong, what do you do?
You're gonna push andprocrastinate, right?
And they will never use it.
Similar to any other things thathappens, usually also, like,
let's say in fashion.
And so you prefer to do likesomething that it's gonna be
only seven days, only threedays, and so on.
To use it.
(30:47):
And again, because you can use apromo code if you add it there,
you know, and usually it'sabout, you know, a discount.
For example, mark 30.
Okay, fantastic.
You put it there.
And this could be a really good,also for software for example,
or B2B type of solutions, right?
you can see a video, watch avideo on YouTube, you're gonna
add that promo code.
And you're able to go back atthe end of the month and be
(31:08):
like, how many, mark brought in,okay, these numbers because you
can easily see in a Googlesheet, for example.
And, so that is like an easyway.
some others might be a bittricky is that what if you are
changing the device and nowadayswith cookie, sort of cookie less
future, right?
It's a bit difficult.
So again, anything that, likeProco, I would say is the
easiest way just because youcan, no matter where you go as
(31:30):
device, you can still put it outthere.
U T M parameters, and so theyhelp you a lot.
Mostly for, I would sayquantitative because it just
give you an indication, butthen, you know, like in terms of
conversions, you still might,especially if it is in the B2B
of like less numbers in terms oflike, you know, top of funnel
and whatever you get at the endof the funnel, you might still
looking at them like sort of aone by one.
(31:50):
Because, what helps a lot, Iwould say also with influencer
marketing, apart from tracking,is also the, you know, it's also
the type of feedback that peoplecan give you.
When you were saying beforeabout niche, what I say all the
time is this, when you buy aninfluencer marketing campaign,
you only don't get a promotion.
You get user generated contentthat you can use.
You get, again, all thetracking, pro codes, everything,
(32:11):
so you can look at.
But especially you have a focusgroup basically, that you're,
it's included in your pricebecause if you go to a YouTube
page, sorry, YouTube accountunder a video, and maybe that
video has a 32nd integration or62nd integration about a
product, they might ask you forexample, Oh, what about the
software you talk about atminute 15?
What is the cost Or like otherslike, yes, I use it.
(32:33):
It's amazing.
I didn't know about thisfeature.
And you as a brand, you canactually look into that.
So when, whenever you dotracking, the easiest would be
only look at sales, only look atup loads.
But what about also the indirecttype of things that you might
look back in a month, forexample, when you were asking
the timeframe.
Usually we look up to, itdepends again by the.
(32:53):
If this is a test campaign, welook at it 30 days, but if
instead this person, thiscompany, work, work with us for
let's say six months, we look atall the six months plus some
other months later so that wecan get back to the client and
be like, this happened also, youknow, later, because again, you
might not buy the same day.
You might convert, especiallythe b2b, it's gonna take for
certain companies be beforechoosing a new service or
(33:15):
provider, like six months ayear.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So it's, it's a lot of differentthings together in quantitative,
in qualit.
Together is the only way to lookat influencer marketing.
You cannot use only one of thetwo because it will give you
really only 50% of the overallsort of helicopter view.
Isar Meitis (33:32):
Great stuff.
I'll add one thing that is greatfor B2B companies as a way in
general, by the way, not justfor this kind of marketing, but
for any kind of marketingcampaign you're running on b2b,
there's a very big differencebetween generating demand and
capturing demand, and usuallywhat people track is how demand
is being captured, meaning, Acookie, a a AppSumo for apps or,
(33:54):
not AppSumo apps flyer, for appsor, a Provo code.
So all these things show youwhere the demand was captured.
How do people actually go in andbuy the thing that you're
selling?
But how do you know?
What help them make thedecision.
And like you said, they do thisin chat rooms.
They do this on TikTok, they dothis on Instagram, they do this
on different servers that youdon't have access to, like 80
(34:17):
something percent.
And that's from an actualresearch that was done.
80 something percent of theresearch phase happens before a
costume.
Ever engages with anything thecompany has access to, meaning
most of the journey happensbefore.
So how do you track that part?
And the way to track that partis through different things.
One, like I said before, is justengagement.
(34:37):
How many people engaged with thedifferent content on, on online?
That means, okay, we're creatingsome.
Of the right content that peoplecare about.
But the other thing is you canput on your website, on the
form, and if it's a B2B company,that's usually how it works.
Somebody wants to talk to asalesperson, they wanna know
more about the product.
You can put in a field thatsays, how did you hear about us?
(34:57):
And make it mandatory and makeit an open field with text.
And then people will tell you, Iwas watching, TikTok videos by
so-and-so influencer.
I was listening to thosepodcasts and a few people
recommended this.
And people will tell you thesethings that you have absolutely
no other way of knowing.
And if you have enough volume,very clear, very quickly, you'll
(35:18):
start seeing a pattern.
Where the demand is actuallybeing generated versus where the
demand is captured, which wantsall the direct clicks and so on.
Cookies, will tell you in thecombination of the two, can help
you make better strategicresults on how to change and
shift your future campaigns.
So I love all these things.
Let's go to b2b.
(35:39):
What kind of things you'reseeing in the B2B world today
that are successful leveraginginfluencer?
Alessandro Bogliari (35:46):
Yeah.
So one thing that you know, alsoto get back to what we were
saying now about looking also inin dark type of engagement and
data and metrics, one thing thatwe noticed also for B2B is
actually the idea that if you'rerunning an influencer marketing
campaign and you see a peak inbranded search on Google.
That's a good indicator thatpeople are looking at that.
(36:07):
And the same, you can do it forb2b, right?
Many times, especially in theb2b, that is niche.
If you just see like somethingthat is coming on your Google
Analytics, for example, thatcomes from Google searches,
right?
You can go and search consoleand look if there is an impact
on that one.
There is also something thatthey're like B2B are using more
for authority, for seo O and soon.
The same also for b2.
(36:29):
Ana YouTube video or a blogpost, or a podcast with the name
of the brander and somethingthat is related to the, those
brand searches is gonna be evenmore, much more powerful for B2B
than Ana TikTok video that goesviral for one day, right?
Or in Instagram Real, forexample.
Why?
Because if you really go on astrategy about, let's say you
want to dominate SEO on YouTube,I do do it.
(36:49):
How do you do it?
Either you, it takes you fiveyears to build your own brand
account.
You can do it of.
or you go to influencers thatare really already dominating
for those keywords and you canask them to put your brand name
in the, in the title, in thedescription, in the AKs, in the
tags and so on.
And whenever someone is gonna,let's say, look for your brand
(37:09):
name solution review, forexample, you can narrate how
however you want, instead ofevery others, right?
Get there before you.
So the s e o for social media isquite important.
We've also been seeing lately,You know, like younger people
are using TikTok as a searchengine.
You want also to dominate that,right?
If I am in the b2b, why should Iwait for others to create
(37:32):
content that I cannot controlover the narrative while I can
go there and be the first oneand getting five, 10 people,
right?
Like, you know, really, reallystrong on that topic.
I'm thinking about like, youknow, could be even like,
insurance companies and like,you know, banking solutions for
other businesses.
I've been seeing also like, youknow, like let's say, you know,
like other companies helpingsmall businesses, right?
(37:53):
With their needs.
In that case, I would likereally get, you know, five to 10
people maybe, you know, onTikTok, YouTube and so on, and I
would use my brand name pluswhatever I want to be associated
with.
So anytime that someone is gonnaGoogle you.
The same day or in six years,most probably gonna find those
videos.
And the good thing also is thatif you put a tracking link in
(38:13):
those descriptions, they'regonna stay there.
So of course you're gonna see apeak at the beginning, but might
be that in three years you'restill gonna get link, clicks and
potential customers from thatspecific video.
So I will look into long termand only short term.
The short term gives you theburnout.
Where is that?
That like, you know, sort of.
Boosting, but sometimes the peakon social media and virality can
(38:35):
also actually backfire.
What if you cannot control overa new like big quite of people
coming to your service, to yourproduct and so on?
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you are like, you know, evenby, let's say B2B hardware,
right?
For example, you don't haveenough of those like in store,
right?
So there is all these differentquestions and, and the last one
I want to say also, we've beenseeing also.
More people in d B2B that aretrying to, and I'm talking about
(38:58):
maybe certain I don't like, youknow, could be devices, could be
again, on the hardware side,could be, especially physical,
physical products.
There are mostly B2B and theytry to get the majority of these
products online and show intraction so that they can go
back these companies to targetWalmart and the others and be
like, look at this.
We're getting traction.
Can we enter physic?
(39:19):
And sell it from here.
And I would say that these bigbrands, all the distribution
channels are realizing that, youknow, we all know that the
TikTok may be buyed.
Now in some, even in Walmart,you have like, like so on, on
TikTok, there is the new C onTikTok.
So if you can also do the samein the B2B and go there, and
that, for example, is one of thethings like, how can I enter in
(39:40):
something that difficult?
If you show that the attraction,if you see that people are
loving it, They might be moreinclined to open that channel as
well in terms of distribution.
So again, we've been seeing manythings from the B2C world in the
b2b, but it's still, I would saystill experimental budgets are a
bit bigger sometimes.
Mostly because it's companies,but it's all a little
presentation of the total, youknow, budgets per the year.
Isar Meitis (40:04):
What do you see as examples on how some of the
brands you're working with B2Bbrands, how they are.
And obviously we don't have tomention names of the company, so
we don't disclosing anyspecific, company information,
but, but good examples on how ainfluencer campaign is helping a
B2B brand.
What tactics are they using?
(40:25):
What results are they seeing?
Stuff like that.
Alessandro Bogliari (40:28):
Yeah, I can tell you one case study that we
are working on that I identifiedthat would be interesting,
especially works well with,YouTubers.
Another one that is more of anexample of things are like, you
know, public, other, and casestudies, right?
Whenever it comes to b2b.
So the one that we ed it is, oneof the biggest, suppliers for
B2B from coming from from China.
So anything that is like,creating quality products.
(40:51):
For suppliers and the B2B space.
So, you know, like don't thinkabout any, if there is like
cheap type of material, but it'sactually good, you know, items
that you only can purchase rightin, in bulk.
And working with this clientagain, you know, there is not a
direct supplier, so it can onlywork with b2b.
The challenge for us was like,how can you remove the sort of
(41:12):
boring part right?
Of something like that, right?
And actually sell it.
Other people.
And in this case it was mostlycommunicate from YouTubers to
other people that have businessthat need new suppliers.
And you know, it could be fordrop shipping, could be for
their converses, could be that,for example, they need a
specific item to build on onthat with their own branding.
(41:34):
And sometimes you don't evenknow where to start.
You can yeah, Google it around.
But for example, there are manyquestions like in the, in the
e-commerce space, you know, forexample, you know, is that
product really good?
How can I, you know, eveninitiate right.
The negotiation skills if theydon't know, for example.
So something that we did in thissite was both having YouTubers
talk about this, supplier andlooking at about things like
(41:56):
they tested their own product tosee if they were good.
So physically they're like,testing in the mountain or just
showing up?
Yeah.
In terms of listing, then, youknow, like, We did also like,
apart from integration was forexample, the education side.
So these YouTubers were educatedon their YouTube channels.
A are you looking now to expandyour business?
Fantastic.
You need a supplier.
Let's go into negotiation skillswhenever it comes to b2b.
(42:19):
So it was never just likequarterly promotional, but the
educational part is crucial whenit comes to b2b.
You want to sell knowledge alsoand not just a, a, a service.
And then if you are a reallygood storyteller, you can be
like, I tested a product foryou.
Next time we're gonna go intonegotiation skills.
Fantastic.
Then the next time we're gonnatalk about, for example, you
(42:40):
know, things like, okay, I haveto, you know, like I need,
business ideas and how to makemoney with eCommerce.
The next one is gonna be how tofind the right, brands.
Sorry, the right products areworking well in that period.
Is there any trends happeningonce you go in that all that
education you already, they'regonna.
First of all, I trust thisperson because it just didn't
mely sell to me a product or aservice.
(43:00):
It educated me in X amount oftime.
Now, trust it enough to be okay.
Now it's my time.
Oh, what was that supplier thatthey integrated me?
Oh, it was this one.
You know what?
I'm gonna click on the one.
I know that I can trust them.
I know that most probably theinfluencer is gonna also.
Get something out of it.
Right?
Because they're gonna mostly getsome sort of thing.
And if you're thinking as abusiness person, you know how
(43:21):
much it is important, right?
Also to help other businesses.
So we did it in this case,again, this was the idea of a,
of a supplier and really was outto add together education Plus,
Actionable item and the rightservice to use.
Right?
So these are like some, some ofthe ideas like how to find
suppliers, how to meet withthem, how to trade right, are so
(43:42):
specific as things that you wantto have an authority.
You want to have someone theycan trust.
And once you have it, if theycan also give you, you know
what, don't look anymore aboutdifferent 20,000 solutions.
This is the one that I test.
I'll accurate.
And through this link you canmaybe access without preferred
login or you know, you don'thave to wait on the wait list or
(44:02):
the first ship, it's for free.
You know, anything like that.
So that is like one key study,for example, that we run on.
And it was really interesting tosee educational plus actionable
items and on something instead.
Totally different.
That also would be interestingfor b2b.
I've been seeing that like from,you know, American Express or
like, you know, or actually likeibm, for example, ibm.
(44:24):
When it comes to influencermarketing and and I had the
chance to talk with, one of theperson in charge of that, on our
own podcast, he told me that,they whenever can also use their
own employees as influencers.
Why?
Because you, as an employee, youdo that like it's your brand and
butter.
You very well know like theproducts, how do they work?
(44:44):
You know more about the company.
You are really like notpassionate about usually, the,
the company you're working for.
And so, you know, IBM has beendoing that.
I also thought, I think alsothat Adobe, I've done that, I've
seen many linking videos ofactual professionals, employees
of Adobe showing you how to usea new feature, for example, for
the Adobe suite and IBM is doingthe same, right?
(45:05):
For, the B2B side, both.
Hardware side, but alsosoftware.
It's the same.
Also, IBM did it also forWatson.
Right?
One of their, their servicesthere.
So using employees also, it's agreat way, again, it's not for
everyone.
Usually it's for maybe biggercompanies that can accommodate
that in terms of needs, in termsof organizing all the campaign.
But it's, it's a great way totalk in a way that is not
(45:29):
necessarily to corporate, butyou still are backed up by all.
Like all the history, all the,all the, all the leverage, all
the, you know, strength of acompany.
So again, two totally differentthings.
One is, the initial one is B2BYouTubers, straight to the point
in terms of like this knowledge,this is what you need and so on.
And others instead, in the b2b,what if you use employee and.
(45:51):
Before we were like, call advoadvocate.
What if we transfer them in?
Influencers and contentcreators, Los Angeles would like
to add it, is that somecompanies are actually investing
on their employees and they areteaching them how to create
becoming content creators,right?
This is the lighting, this isthe maximum to use.
This is, you usually host awebinar.
and we've seen successful thingsfor the B2C and nowadays also
for the b2b.
(46:12):
So, Totally different, but, justunderstand that you can do
potentially both together ordepending on the top of the
company.
Choose one of the two.
Isar Meitis (46:21):
Brilliant.
I wanna add a few things becauseI, I think you touched on so
many important points.
One, I'll start with what youtalked about in the end about
being an enabler for youremployees to be, you know, the
megaphone of the company.
To, to be the, the, the face ofthe company.
Companies who are not doingthis, and the only thing I
disagree with you is it could bea company of three people,
(46:41):
right?
Mm-hmm.
it doesn't have to be i b M.
If you understand the power ofhuman connection as a way to
build relationships, as a way tobuild an audience that is the
relevant audience for what youdo, the easiest way to do this
is with your own employees.
And instead of saying, well, youknow, if you have time, go do
this as a hobby, you build astudio in your office and you
(47:03):
give people slots of time towork there.
You buy them the microphone andthe lighting so they have a
better setup at home, and youhelp them promote the stuff.
You give them the righteducation on how to do this.
You will gain in the long run, ahuge benefit of now having more
content, very authentic comingfrom real people that will
(47:24):
develop an audience, and goingback to what I said before in a
different context.
One is a computer programmer,one is a VP of hr, and, and, and
one is, is the head of product,right?
It's, it's very differentthings, but they're each gonna
talk about stuff that they'repassionate about that is somehow
tied to your company that willconnect with some people that
will then wanna do business withyou because they have a better
(47:45):
understanding of your business.
So I.
This is a huge important advicethat most companies do not do
today.
More and more are starting tothough, because it's really a
great way to do it.
The second thing that I wannamention, there's a guy called
Chris Walker.
Stupidly smart.
That's a really dumb thingtoday.
I really smart really smartmarketer, one of the top
marketers in the world todaymaybe.
(48:06):
And he talks about how helearned what he now built a
company that in a few years made20 million, selling.
But the way he started, he wasin, in the medical device.
And he didn't know enough aboutit because he just moved into
the indu to the industry.
So he started interviewingdoctors who were using their
products, and they're notinfluencers, but they're real
(48:29):
people in the actual quoteunquote field who use medical
devices.
And he is like, why are youusing this?
Why are you using this and notthe competition?
What benefits did you gain byusing just, he did this for his
own research.
But then he is like, oh my God,this is pure gold.
So he started posting thatcontent of an actual doctor and,
(48:50):
and how do you get to thesedoctors?
They're not gonna come to you.
And we're talking before Zoom.
So he drove to hospitals.
So you're in a hospital facilitywith your phone filming a quote,
unquote very, you know, intimateand yet non-professional
interview with a doctor on whyhe's using your medical device.
And now you post.
(49:11):
He started getting huge amountson Facebook that, again, it's a
non-professional kind of worldon other doctors saying, is this
true?
Like, do you have any proof?
Do you have any actual studies?
So then he started conversationswith more and more bigger
doctors, which he then did thesame thing.
Like, okay, what if I give youthis device to try it out?
Will you then be willing to doan interview with me after you
(49:35):
use it for a month and let meknow what you think.
Now you have somebody who's abigger.
Name that actually more peopleknow ahead of a regional
hospital that is gonna do thesame thing.
So if, if you want, it's like agrassroot way to do influencer
marketing, but if you're gettingthe people who will get
(49:56):
engagement from the rightaudience, it doesn't matter if
nobody else knows them, itdoesn't matter.
They don't have half a millionfollowers if they have 20 off
the right doctors.
Or in a general case, yourbuyers.
I'm like, oh my God, this isexactly what I was looking for
as this solves a huge problem Ihave, and now these 23 of them
(50:16):
will be your next level ofevangelists.
You win on all different aspectswith a relatively small budget
because these people are notquote unquote influencers.
They're not gonna charge you$4,000 a month.
They just wanna understand moreon the topic and help you and
them solve a problem.
So, great, great advice.
Everything you.
We could keep on going aroundthis for for probably another
(50:39):
hour.
if people wanna learn more aboutyou, about what you do, they
want to connect with you, theywanna listen to your podcast,
they wanna work with youragency.
What are the best ways to dothat,
Alessandro Bogliari (50:48):
Alessandro?
Yeah, absolutely.
I would say three main ones.
So the influencer marketmanufacturing.com is our
website.
There are some case studiesthere, a bit outdated.
We're now refreshing the websitesoon, but that gives you an
indication of what we do, allthe service that we offer.
the second one is the influencefactor.
it's our own podcast.
We also have like fantasticpeople that jump on every single
(51:09):
week that are either from thecreative.
Influencer marketing, socialcommerce, livestream, you know,
and reporters like everyone thatreally is touching somehow in
all these different topics.
So we have them and it's this,you know, 30, 40 minutes
conversation with them while Ipush be more, because we also
realized the podcasting, it's,it's quite good in the video
towe phase.
So we're loving it.
And the last one is my ownlinking.
(51:30):
So if you look for my name,Alessandro Bo.
They want to admin there.
I also have the creator mode on,I post whenever I can in like,
you know, almost every day aboutsomething.
So you can also connect oreither like, follow me, whatever
you want there just to be in theloop of what is happening.
so I would say that these arethe three main things, but we're
everywhere of course.
Right.
You know, I've been, been anagency.
(51:50):
We have also to do our ownhomework.
But this, I would say that theeasiest and fastest way, if you
want to either connect with mepersonally or learn more about
our.
Awesome.
Isar Meitis (52:00):
Alessandro.
This was really educational.
I've learned a lot.
I'm sure people listening,learned a lot.
Thank you so much for taking thetime and sharing with me and my
Alessandro Bogliari (52:09):
audience.
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
Hello and welcome to the Business Growth
Accelerator.
This is Isar Matis, your host,and I'm really super excited
today.
It's a topic I've actually nevertouched, and it's a very
important topic these days thatcan really help businesses of
all sizes and aspects grow.
So social media and Web 2.0created the concept of
influencers.
And influencers comes indifferent shapes and sizes.
(00:22):
They have different followingsand in different industries,
different places around theworld and so on..
However, if you know how to pickthe right influencer that can
have you connect better withyour target audience, it's a
hidden gem.
It's an amazing way to growbusinesses.
Including in B2B businesses, andI know what you're thinking.
(00:45):
You're thinking, well,influencer marketing, it's more
for selling, you know, consumergoods like soap and clothing and
energy drinks and stuff likethat.
Who the hell uses influencermarketing for b2b?
I don't even think it'spossible.
Well, the reality is, it ispossible and companies across
different industries, includingpharma, medical insurance and so
on, are leveraging influencermarketing.
(01:06):
So it's doable and if you wannalearn how to do it yourself in
your industry, either for B2B orb2c, there is no better person
than.
Alessandro Gli to teach you.
So Alessandro grew theinfluencer marketing, his
influencer marketing factoryagency to eight digits in just
three years.
(01:27):
He works with companies likeGoogle and Meta, so the biggest
names in the world, and he'sconsidered a global expert on
influencer marketing.
So we are in amazing hands tolearn about these topics
together.
Today we're going to talk abouthow to successfully launch and
run influencer campaigns indifferent budget levels.
And yes, we're also going totalk about how to do this for
(01:50):
B2B companies with some examplesand use cases on how that can be
done.
So it's a new topic for me.
It's a really important topicthese days in general, when the
regular digital marketing is sooverpopulated and so, Dense that
it's very, very hard to get newstuff out there.
So it's a new channel that ifyou're not using, you can
(02:11):
definitely try.
And if you are using that cangive you additional tools and
ways to do it.
Even better, get ready to takesome notes because this is gonna
be high speed.
I spoke to Alessandra, anamazing onboarding meeting, and
Alessandro, I'm so excited andhappy.
Welcome
Alessandro Bogliari (02:27):
to the Business Growth Accelerator.
(03:28):
Thank you.
Uh, love to be here..
Isar Meitis (03:30):
Let's go back a little bit before we jump into
the details.
When did you figure it out?
When did you figure out thatthat influencer marketing is a
big deal that is not leveragedenough that drove you to start
Alessandro Bogliari (03:41):
your business?
Absolutely.
so I was actually stillstudying, doing my master's
degree.
I was, living in Copenhagen,Denmark, in the cold of Denmark,
and, spent a lot of time indoorcrunching about like, you know,
numbers and data and I, Ialready knew that something was
called influence for marketing,but I would say that was really
about the brand awareness,right?
So back in the days I'm talking.
(04:02):
Eight years ago it was still,you know, putting, you know, a
face usually on social media,telling you to buy a certain
product.
Yeah.
But knowing how much to pay aninfluencer was really, you know,
a big black box.
Right.
You, you, you, you got into thatand, more or less you had some
way to, you know, figure it out.
There was a lot of gifting, andso long story short, what
(04:22):
happened is that I had to writea thesis about, you know,
something and I chose influencefor marketing, and I, I, I came
up with a really easy.
I don't want to even call italgorithm anea easy formula to
calculate how much to paysomeone on Instagram based on
criteria such as number offollowers and engagement rate
geolocation and industry.
And so I built all my thesisabout this is growing, but we
(04:44):
have to start putting some dataand science behind that.
If you calculate ROI and arrowson Google ads, you should be
able to do the same also forinfluencer marketing.
So it started from thatperspective, and then I started
working with other people.
You know, in the industry.
And, a few years later when Iwas ready, it was like, you know
what?
I can start my own agency, theInfluencer Marketing Factory.
you know, I just started with acouple of people, now we're a
(05:06):
team of 50 between the US andEurope, working with some of the
clients that you mentioned thatbefore.
But yes, it was a bigopportunity, but still it was
missing some data points.
It was about like understandinghow much you can get out of it.
That was ma mostly like, youknow, my, my main thesis, you
can use influencer market in aserious way, you know, just as a
nice to.
Brilliant.
Isar Meitis (05:24):
I, I really like this from two different
perspectives.
One that you actually startedthis from an academic
perspective versus an actualbusiness to begin with.
Yep.
And I also like, I'm a very dataoriented person, and a lot of
times when you're dealing withpeople mm-hmm.
it's very hard to put thescience back into it, right?
Because it's like, it's more ofa relationship building, brand
(05:45):
awareness kind of exercise.
And you're saying, no, this is amarketing channel.
You need to be able to compareapples and apples.
If I'm gonna put$50,000 on thischannel, or$50,000 on this
channel, I would like to know inadvance, roughly hopefully what
the ROI is going to be versus,okay, I'm gonna put 50,000 of
this thing and I'm hope it'sgonna do something, and then
(06:05):
$50,000 later I will know.
So I love absolutely everythingyou said.
Let's start drilling into thisthing.
Yeah.
If I'm not, if I've never donethis before and I'm a great
example because I haven'tmm-hmm.
how do I even get started?
Like how do I define a budget?
How do I find the rightinfluencers for me in order to
(06:27):
even test this thing out?
Alessandro Bogliari (06:29):
Absolutely.
So first of all, I know thatthis, you know, might be of
course, common sense, but Irealize that many brands and
also individuals don't do that.
You have to spend enough time tolike, you know, look what is
happening nowadays on socialmedia.
Each social media is different,right?
LinkedIn, especially for theB2B, is pushing a lot of content
creators out there.
In fact, they, last year, theycome up with the creator mode.
(06:49):
I also use, it is really goodfor organic reach and to connect
with people, you know.
But then what is happening, forexample, on YouTube, what is
happening on TikTok, right?
Just these days that TikTok ispushing longer content, right?
They're trying to you know,compete against YouTube, for
example.
And in fact, they're giving alsoa new type of, like TikTok found
for TikTokers that want to go,like more longer form, what is
(07:10):
happening on Instagram reels andso on.
So first of all, I would gothere and spend enough hours to
understand.
Too many times to have a, anidea of what influencer market
and it is, uh, maybe based onthings that you read online, for
example, or a friend of yourstold you something, but the best
way, as in anything right to tetest yourself and even just.
before Listen to conversations,right?
Look at the, niche audit systemmight be existing, and
(07:32):
especially in the b2b.
I know that we're gonna go morein detail later, but there are
specific niche, right?
People that communicate on notonly on social media, but also
on this core channel.
Slack channels.
For example, Subreddits you canget and gather all that data
first to understand what ishappening, what people want to
see, what they don't like, thedo's and don't, and then use
those sort of rules and trends.
(07:54):
Then to bring them on socialmedia.
The worst that you can do isjust go out there and think that
you already know.
Start posting things thatactually can backfire on your
own brand.
Isar Meitis (08:04):
Interesting.
So you're saying it all starts,like, basically like anything is
business with good research.
Mm-hmm.
what do I research for?
So how do I find theseinfluencers?
Just start and see who isgetting more, engagement.
Like how do you identify theinfluencers in your industry?
And I'll, I'll add a little bitto the question because at the
end of the, day It's not aboutthe influencer, it's about the
(08:28):
audience they reach.
Exactly.
Right.
So how do I, how do I figurethis part out?
These are great point.
This is also what I say all thetime.
Do not only focus on theinfluencer or the content
creator because, what I say allthe time is this.
For example, imagine someonethat, is, you know, from the
United States, right?
So, they, you know, they have alot of like, you know, US based
audience, but for some reasonthey're traveling, for example,
(08:50):
to Europe, right?
For one year.
If you look at the geolocationof the influencer, they're gonna
be, let's say, you know, Londonfor example, right?
Or Paris.
That doesn't mean necessarilythat their audience is located
there.
So you might look for someone inParis and looking for French
customers, for example, to go toa specific event or buy
something locally, but theiraudience is still in the us So
(09:11):
of course you want to have atouch and fill the influencer.
Looking at other data, such as,for example, historical data in
terms of conversions.
For example, if you're lookingat software downloads or app
downloads, how many, forexample, of your audience were,
was you were able to translatein customer base and so on.
So, of course, historical datainfluencers, it's really
important.
But as, as you correctly said,looking at also of the audience,
(09:34):
right?
Certain you can do it.
I would, I would say that unlessyou use, a platform that look at
the demographics, usuallyworkspace on sampling of data,
right?
So you cannot analyze as, as asoftware, like a million
followers.
But usually the softwares theylook at maybe 1,000 2000 people
analyze their gender age,usually based on machine
(09:55):
learning and ai, you know, likesoftwares that they use,
geolocation of these people andso on.
And again, unless you have asoftware that you can use, there
are plenty out there.
You know, those used by, youknow, bigger companies up to,
you know, those, SaaS that youcan use for$50 a month.
It gives you a really goodindication.
Too many times still people gomaybe on, you know, like on
(10:15):
Instagram for example, orYouTube, and they look for a
specific topic.
They find the person.
But they have no doubt about it.
And I always like, how can youactually understand if this is
the right person?
And one challenge, for example,is LinkedIn I love LinkedIn but
it's still a bit difficult tofind the right people because
there is not really, you know, asearch engine.
Right.
for content creators as I wouldlike to see.
So it would be interesting tosee in the next years there are
(10:38):
gonna be more of these platformsalso giving you demographic data
and psychographic data ForLinkedIn influencers, that would
be really, cool Interesting.
Can you give a few examples ofthis software that, that are
available to the public and notif you're Google, that you can
use in order to find data aboutaudiences of people?
Alessandro Bogliari (10:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, there are manywell-known like, hype Auditor
for example.
It's one, mo Dash is anotherone.
there are like really a lot ofthem every, to be honest, still
up to these days, every daythere is a new one coming out.
Those are mostly like, you know,two identify influencers, but
then there are like big oneslike, uh, Green, for example, or
Maverick that are only oneplatform.
(11:19):
Usually, again, you know, usedby maybe bigger brands where you
can not only identify theinfluencers, but you can
actually track everything.
we, as an agency, we do, forexample, we have an hybrid, so
we use certain platforms to findthem, but then we created our
own ways to track everything.
but apart from identify them,that is really important that
you can understand all thesteps, like all the negotiation
involved, agreement, legal, youknow, there are so many things
(11:42):
behind an influencer marketingcampaign that people do not
realize.
They're actually very timeconsuming on the one end or on
the other.
You need to have knowledge aboutwhat is happening, what are you
doing too many times, no matterthe wrong price, for example, or
something to I and so on.
So having like, you know, the,more knowledgeable like, you
know, people that are workingevery single day on that might
be really helpful, especially ifyou're new to.
Isar Meitis (12:02):
Awesome.
So it, it's actually a groupsegue to the next step that we
wanted to talk about, right?
So we said, you said research,we kind of figured out the
research, we found the rightinfluencers, probably more,
hopefully more than one.
What's the next step?
So I, I found a few people whohave the ears and the eyes of,
of my optimal audience.
What then?
Alessandro Bogliari (12:23):
Absolutely.
So again, you know, I'm mostlytalking about, on the B2B side
because again, you know, the B2Cside, it's, I don't want to say,
I mean, it's easier, right?
Because Yeah.
First of all, you have morepotential people, right?
That can fit your needs.
Sure.
In the b2b, it's more like it'sniche.
Usually prices are gonna behigher.
Why?
Because you are talking withprofessionals, they might
already.
(12:43):
Main job.
So if they do this and they doit, first of all as an extra
sometimes or as an additionalincome, and two, they have an
authority in their space.
So they cannot just say yes toeverything.
If you are like an influencerfor the B2C and selling a pair
of shoes, whatever, literallyhave maybe, you know, like an
authority that can be destroyedbecause you said something
(13:03):
about, you know, new shoes thatis not perfect.
You know, when it comes to b2b,you have a reputation right in
your space.
So first of all, before Youknow, finding the right person.
Also on the other side, youmight have someone being like,
you know what, I don't feel thatis the right fit for me.
And usually they're moretransparent on that.
But to get back to what you'reasking me on, on the next steps,
it's absolutely crucial to be onthe same page from day one.
(13:25):
so apart from legal, and theagreements that usually have,
there is a typical agreementabout, you know, media rights
and you know, like what you cansay, why not?
And so on.
It's really important to give toeach content creator and
influencer a scope of work.
And you're gonna go very indetail.
So the more detail it is thefile and the briefly you're
gonna give the better it is.
So there are nomisunderstanding.
(13:46):
And that usually includes, forexample, how many videos do, do
you have to create?
Is there anything extra?
Such as, for example, you know,like appear on a podcast.
Do you have to add a link inbio?
And if so, this is the UTMparameters and the Bitly that
you have to use and this is thedeadline.
By that time, you cannot, you.
Remove that for six months.
If this is the amount, and it's,let's say more than this, you
(14:07):
cannot work with, anothercompetitor for next, for
example, three months.
So the more detail you go thebetter it is because too many
times, you can, you know, getany sort of misunderstanding.
and then, you know, things gosouth, and as you said at the
beginning, it's a people topeople.
Even if it's b2b, there isanother person in front of you,
with their own scheduling, theiragenda and so on.
(14:29):
So I would say that the, thesteps are really important from
day one.
It is not to rush it, but to beon the same page.
It is better to catch anypotential mistakes or, you know,
potential problems in the futurefrom day one.
So once identified, the nextstep should be absolutely going
to legal and agreements be onthe same page about dos and
downs.
And, only after that startreceiving the first draft
(14:51):
content that you, and, you know,if you're an agency you would
like, you know, work togetherwith the company.
If instead you're a companydirectly working with the
influencer, you're gonna startgoing a sort of.
You know, I don't want to say aloop about, a way to optimize
the content up to both, youknow, like parties are happy
with it.
And then, you know, there aremany other steps after that.
But that is, I would say, thecrucial part to do for every
(15:14):
type of campaign.
Isar Meitis (15:16):
Awesome.
I think this is very solidadvice.
Let's, let's move to the budgetside of things, right?
Yeah.
So what is a, if I'm justgetting started and I wanna test
the water, What is a reasonablebudget to start with and then
what's like, okay, this isworking great.
Mm-hmm.
how does that usually evolve andwhat are the differences?
Mm-hmm.
that I will ask for or do withdifferent levels of
Alessandro Bogliari (15:38):
budget.
Yeah, absolutely.
So first of all, big difference,as I was mentioning before,
between B2C and b2b.
In the B2B side, usually if youtalk about people in the tech
space, for example, back in thedays with crypto, now we are
seeing less of that, right.
for obvious reasons.
But I would say that, in decadesthese people already have a job
(15:58):
usually, or they can just choosea bit more, right?
They can be a bit picky.
And so usually the type ofbudgets that you're looking at,
It's definitely higher.
In the B2C side, instead, youcan have different ranges, but
my main two, if I have to divideit into like just super easy,
would be you are entering in themarket with like, something that
(16:19):
is, let's say$5,000.
Okay.
Really small budget.
We, for example, as a, as a, asan agency, we don't work with
anything that is usually below,let's say,$20,000.
There's a test budget thatusually lasts for a month.
Why?
Because.
In that amount, we, you havealso to consider our fee, and
the majority of the money goesto the influencer.
So if you have like somethingthat is, let's say$5,000, a
(16:41):
thousand dollars, right?
My main like, you know, piece ofadvice is to test it out
yourself.
You are gonna definitely gethurt the first time because it's
wrong, right?
You don't know about the prices,you don't know what has involved
to do things, but at least you,you sort of like, you know, You
get into that yourself and youunderstand terminologies, how
(17:03):
people, like to negotiate oncertain things, what is
included?
And only ones like, let's sayyou built, you know, something
and you working with five to 10influencers, right?
on that money.
First of all, you don't have topay an agency like us, for
example, right there, usuallybetween 15 and 20% that you can.
Either to an influencer or touse for paid media, for example.
Because another cool thing ofinfluencer market is that you
(17:25):
can actually boost organiccontent that is working.
Sure.
And drive traffic.
So that is like, again, thepeople that are still figure it
out.
And I would say that if you gowith an agency with a so low BA
lower budget, like might befrustrating for both parties
because you have certainexpectation.
But at the same time,unfortunately, influencer market
is not anymore as it was fiveyears ago or eight years.
(17:48):
People want to get paid more andmore, right?
Like the market is going thatdirection.
So unfortunately you wouldn'teven get that much with like,
that type of money.
And so I think that expectationfrom day one are really
important.
Instead, if you have, let's say,you know, 15, 20, 30, 50, we do
have clients that give us likesix digits, other seven digits
type of projects.
(18:08):
So that is the case.
You already tried it out.
You think that it has, you know,like a lot of opportunities, you
can understand that, you know,you know how to track things.
And it might be that you don'thave anyone in your company that
can help you do that, or youstill need more people.
Whenever work, let's say on acampaign with 50, for example,
(18:29):
right?
Different influencers.
It's really time consuming.
there is a lot of negotiation.
There is a lot of.
Exchanging like rates and ideasover email.
Sometimes with even youngerpeople, you will not communicate
with them on email.
You will do it on iMessage, youwill do it on WhatsApp, you will
do it on a Slack channel.
You will do it on a anywhere,right?
But, but email with a lot ofyounger people.
(18:52):
So you have to realize that it'sthree time consuming.
Between, again, you know, gatherthe information, the brief, the,
you know, the, the, how muchshould I get paid for this and
so on.
And if you don't have anyone inthe company that is just
dedicated to data, is gonna betrying to use maybe let's say a
marketer in a company, try to.
Had some of their time here andthere, but this person might not
have a knowledge about theinfluencer marketing and so we
(19:14):
might be double charged forsomething.
It, it might, you know, like,not seeing something really
important on the contract and soon.
So usually companies come to uswhen they want to scale up their
game.
So again, long story short, ifthen a budget, yet we go by
yourself at the beginning toreally understand things and
only when like you are reallyready and you have like 50 k,
hundred K and so much more.
(19:36):
Fantastic.
You should use an agency becausewe already know what to do.
We know the prices in the, inthe industry, we know certain
terminology that are important,and also we're reluctant update
to the same day about what ishappening, right?
We, we, we are in the loop ofthe trends and instead you as a
brand to have to come up withlike, you know, okay, what is
happening in the industry?
is this regulation still on?
(19:57):
What about the new trends?
We do that for you.
Right?
So there is, if I had to again,split it in two macros, that
would be the.
Isar Meitis (20:06):
Again, great advice.
I, I wanna say some, a fewthings about what you said.
First of all, I think ingeneral, starting in-house and
doing stuff yourself, Is greatin the beginning because it
gives you a little more depthonce you go to work with an
agency, and this is true in anytopic, like before you go and
hire, I dunno, any, any otherthing, try to do it in-house.
(20:30):
Try to get your, your, you know,your feet wet and your hands
dirty, learn what's going on,and then you got a better
understanding.
Once you got to negotiate, onceyou come to ask for things, you
are much more educated to do theright things.
That's one aspect of it.
The other aspect, which is moreof a follow up question, you
talked about these level ofbudgets, what do they actually
(20:50):
buy me?
So let's take two entry points,right?
So let's take$5,000 a month.
I got$5,000 a month that I'mgonna use myself.
What should I expect in thistimeframe?
So we are in, you know, March of2023.
What should I expect to get for$5,000 working with an
influencer?
What should I.
Paying$20,000 a month to maybean agency to help me do.
Alessandro Bogliari (21:14):
Yeah, absolutely.
So first of all, it's for me,unfortunately possible to tell
you, let's say a, a menu item,right?
Type of thing.
Okay?
With 5k, this is what you canget.
I can give you more on anindication of what to expect if
you do it yourself.
Or for example, with an agency,depending on the budgets, if you
put in yourself only, let's say$5,000, first of all, don't put
all your eggs in one basket.
(21:35):
We've been seeing that foreverything in the markets
nowadays.
The same would be also with, in.
Why, if you look only atmetrics, that is only a part of
the indicators, right?
About the potential influence ofsomeone.
So for example, if you say, oh,I really love this person, and I
see them everywhere, and theyhave, let's say, you know, a
million followers on whatever itis, and you go all in, that
(21:57):
person might also do the, youknow, fantastic job.
But because of the algorithmthese days, like, you know, try
to shadow banner if there is anadvertisement, if the video is
posted, let's say on a.
Where usually the audience ofthe person is not really that
active, but the brands stillwant to go that day.
There are so many things thatcould happen that you are
external factors that you cannotreally like, you know, control.
(22:19):
So our, our, our advice, nomatter the budget, try to, you
know, diversify them aspossible.
Your sort of investment indifferent.
Or influencers, maybe take fiveof them and give them a thousand
dollars each.
And it really depends by theindustry.
As I was saying before, in thetech space, for example, really
high price, if instead you arelooking at, b2c, it's something
else, this, the people with thesame numbers can give you.
(22:41):
Totally different prices.
Why?
Some of them might beindependent influencers, so they
can give you maybe a lowerprice.
If instead they are representedby an agent, the agent will GI
will ask you for 20% more.
So that is already something totake in consideration.
For example.
So for the small one, with the5k, you mostly have your own
work.
So you are also have to considerit like your.
(23:02):
Sort of like, you know, hourlyrate if you do it by yourself,
all the time for negotiation andso on.
What to expect.
Difficult really to say.
But imagine that usually thetypically is maybe, you know, a
video or, let's say 32ndintegration on YouTube.
This is it.
And you're gonna get, let's say,a link in bio for 24 hours.
You know, again, this is justlike really,
Isar Meitis (23:21):
Yeah, very, very broad
Alessandro Bogliari (23:22):
brush.
Very broad, right?
Because it's super difficult tobe honest.
The other day I was looking atcertain data of people that were
paying some people with the samenumbers.
Someone is asking 2000 andsomeone else is asking 12,000,
right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's our job to, to negotiate.
But when it comes to biggerbudgets and usually use an
agency, the good thing it isthat you mostly like sit down
and you have the others doingall the work for you, right?
(23:43):
So as an agency, you know, wetake care of.
Come out with, ideas, forexample, and the storytelling
behind the, the, the, theproduct or service that you want
to offer.
We identify all the influencers.
We reach out to all of them.
We help you negotiate the bestpricing.
We try to put in, for example,media rights.
The good thing of influencermarketing, especially also in
the b2b, if you think about it,it is that a lot of the times in
(24:04):
the B2B space, it's difficult toget this.
And instead, if you can get itfrom an influencer and you pay
for the media rights, you canuse it, for example, for a
webinar, you can use it on yourwebsite under testimonials.
Yeah, you can boost it on socialmedia and so on.
So when you pay for more, youalso get more, you get all the
relationship right that are in asmoother way co you know,
(24:26):
compared to maybe going byyourself.
we have all the legal agreement,sort of templates that we know,
you know, like how to use.
We know what is more or less theprices that you might pay.
And also the good thing is thatespecially in the B2B space,
there are not that many people.
So if you go through an agencylike us, you are able to
identify actually the rightpeople or talk with your agents.
Give them every single monthsomething and we're gonna get a
(24:49):
preferred rate.
So instead of going 1 0 1 allthe time and having, let's say,
$5,000, we can tell them, whatif we give you 50 K around the
year, more or less, because thisis what we can expect, but you
give us that cost for 4,000instead of five, but we're gonna
give you more jobs right.
During the year.
So again, it's, so it's similarrelationship, like, you know,
based, I would say is a, is atype of.
and lastly, we also take care ofmanage all the campaign again,
(25:12):
50 people, a hundred people.
We take care of everything, allthe management, all the
tracking.
So we have all systems to lookat Proma codes and U T M
parameters and Beatles, right?
And that help us to identifywe'll, Which were the best
performance for the campaign.
So if next time you want to runit again, we're gonna tell you,
you know what, out of 10 people,out of 50 people, these were the
(25:33):
top five performers, let's usethem again.
And lastly, we finished with anROI analysis of the campaign.
And, and what I want just to sayoverall on this is that
influencer marketing, you cannotlook at that.
Like, I put$1 in and the sameday I get$10 out.
Right?
It doesn't work like that,right?
It's not, it's not like, youknow, it's really about the
behavior and psychology of thepeople.
(25:53):
So it's one of the main touchpoints, and especially in the
b2b, you might not say yes to asoftware, right, just because
you just checked that YouTubevideo.
But if in your journey ofresearch about a new software,
for example, you also.
Three different people onYouTube, one on TikTok and one
on a podcast, right?
You read a, a blog post aboutsomething that always refer to
(26:14):
the same software that is one ofthe main touchpoints you might
then convert in a month.
But also because of thatinfluencer, you were able to,
and with cookies, you're stillable to look at, okay, this
person brought me in and maybethey offer me, let's say 30% of
discounts on the first year.
Something like that.
So again, there are so manythings happening at the same
time, and that's why tracking isreally, I.
Isar Meitis (26:37):
Awesome.
I, I wanna say something myselfand then when I wanna ask you a
deeper question about tracking,and then we're gonna dive into
actual B2B examples.
Yeah.
But the thing I wanna say myselfthat in general, in these kind
of marketing, so, you know, I, Ihelp companies grow businesses
through, through podcasting andthrough live shows on the
internet.
And it's the same kind of story.
(26:57):
There is no quick, oh, you, youput thing online and the next
day you get a click and thenyou, there's a conversion.
it's a very different kind ofthing.
It's a longer.
And there's a big, bigdifference between, you know,
the data that is, that isdirectly correlated to business,
and that is more qualitativedata, sorry, more quantitative
(27:18):
data.
I've seen that many clicks iswhat's happening in the funnel
versus the qualitative data thatyou can start seeing.
And the qualitative data thatyou can start seeing comes from
things like how many peopleengage with my content on the
right channels on social media.
Is it the right people?
Are the right people that are mytarget audience, engaging with
the content because I did thatthing that I did not do before.
(27:41):
It also connects very well towhat you said before that you
said, don't put all the eggs inman basket.
You did one great guy that has alot of access.
A lot of people make decisionsbased on context, and the
context in many cases issomebody who's like them.
Same size of company, same placein the world, same accent, same
sex, same.
(28:01):
ethnicity.
Ethnicity, you know, whateverthe case may be.
If you have one influencer,doesn't matter how big he is, he
may connect on an emotionallevel, which is a small group of
your audience.
You have five or six, maybe eachand every one end up doing less
stuff for you.
You a, have more eggs and morebaskets, like you said.
One can be on TikTok, one couldbe on YouTube, one could be on
(28:22):
LinkedIn, but the other is somepeople will connect with
different people and you'llstart seeing, going back to that
qualitative data, which ispeople are engaging with this
content.
People care about the thing thatwe did, which over time we lead
to people wanting to work withus.
It's at the end of the day, it'sa trust building.
(28:43):
Experiment, right?
It's how do I build more trust,leveraging people who already
have developed trust with my,the right audience.
So having that mindset in placeand also then the tracking in
place is a very big deal.
Which leads me to the trackingquestion.
Mm-hmm.
what are the things you trackand along what timeframe?
(29:04):
During this process, like whatare your leading indicators that
a campaign is actually doingsomething before you pour more
money into it?
And then what are the thingsthat are the next steps that
you're looking for in order tosay, okay, probably if we keep
on doing this in three months,this is what's gonna happen, or
in six months, or
Alessandro Bogliari (29:22):
whatever the timeline may be.
Yeah, so I would say that in thepast years we've been seeing
more brands and companies movingfrom brand awareness metrics,
right.
Also called vanity metrics tosomething that you can actually
have as a converser, right?
Yeah.
So it really depends by theindustry, but I would say there
are some that are really easy totrack and some others that be
more tricky.
The easiest one I would say areapps because you can easily use
(29:45):
third party to track things,singular or net apps flyer many
others.
We work with a lot of apps, bothB2C M b2, And that is the
easiest way you can, boost acampaign, let's say on TikTok or
YouTube or Instagram, and sendthe people to download the app
that are cleaning the app store,for example.
And in that case, you are gonnause as an influencer dedicated
(30:06):
link.
And anytime that someonedownload the app, it's gonna go
back to you.
So that is like really tracking1 0 1.
Works well.
The same could be also for bothB2B or b2c when it comes to
promo codes or discounts codes,for example, maybe.
And usually what I recommend allthe time as a brand is use and
if there is 10 sensitive.
Because the worst thing thatcould happen with influencer
(30:26):
marketing is that you go out,but then.
Yeah, like if the idea, idea isthat you can, you know, like,
use a certain pro code all yearlong, what do you do?
You're gonna push andprocrastinate, right?
And they will never use it.
Similar to any other things thathappens, usually also, like,
let's say in fashion.
And so you prefer to do likesomething that it's gonna be
only seven days, only threedays, and so on.
To use it.
(30:47):
And again, because you can use apromo code if you add it there,
you know, and usually it'sabout, you know, a discount.
For example, mark 30.
Okay, fantastic.
You put it there.
And this could be a really good,also for software for example,
or B2B type of solutions, right?
you can see a video, watch avideo on YouTube, you're gonna
add that promo code.
And you're able to go back atthe end of the month and be
(31:08):
like, how many, mark brought in,okay, these numbers because you
can easily see in a Googlesheet, for example.
And, so that is like an easyway.
some others might be a bittricky is that what if you are
changing the device and nowadayswith cookie, sort of cookie less
future, right?
It's a bit difficult.
So again, anything that, likeProco, I would say is the
easiest way just because youcan, no matter where you go as
(31:30):
device, you can still put it outthere.
U T M parameters, and so theyhelp you a lot.
Mostly for, I would sayquantitative because it just
give you an indication, butthen, you know, like in terms of
conversions, you still might,especially if it is in the B2B
of like less numbers in terms oflike, you know, top of funnel
and whatever you get at the endof the funnel, you might still
looking at them like sort of aone by one.
(31:50):
Because, what helps a lot, Iwould say also with influencer
marketing, apart from tracking,is also the, you know, it's also
the type of feedback that peoplecan give you.
When you were saying beforeabout niche, what I say all the
time is this, when you buy aninfluencer marketing campaign,
you only don't get a promotion.
You get user generated contentthat you can use.
You get, again, all thetracking, pro codes, everything,
(32:11):
so you can look at.
But especially you have a focusgroup basically, that you're,
it's included in your pricebecause if you go to a YouTube
page, sorry, YouTube accountunder a video, and maybe that
video has a 32nd integration or62nd integration about a
product, they might ask you forexample, Oh, what about the
software you talk about atminute 15?
What is the cost Or like otherslike, yes, I use it.
(32:33):
It's amazing.
I didn't know about thisfeature.
And you as a brand, you canactually look into that.
So when, whenever you dotracking, the easiest would be
only look at sales, only look atup loads.
But what about also the indirecttype of things that you might
look back in a month, forexample, when you were asking
the timeframe.
Usually we look up to, itdepends again by the.
(32:53):
If this is a test campaign, welook at it 30 days, but if
instead this person, thiscompany, work, work with us for
let's say six months, we look atall the six months plus some
other months later so that wecan get back to the client and
be like, this happened also, youknow, later, because again, you
might not buy the same day.
You might convert, especiallythe b2b, it's gonna take for
certain companies be beforechoosing a new service or
(33:15):
provider, like six months ayear.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
So it's, it's a lot of differentthings together in quantitative,
in qualit.
Together is the only way to lookat influencer marketing.
You cannot use only one of thetwo because it will give you
really only 50% of the overallsort of helicopter view.
Isar Meitis (33:32):
Great stuff.
I'll add one thing that is greatfor B2B companies as a way in
general, by the way, not justfor this kind of marketing, but
for any kind of marketingcampaign you're running on b2b,
there's a very big differencebetween generating demand and
capturing demand, and usuallywhat people track is how demand
is being captured, meaning, Acookie, a a AppSumo for apps or,
(33:54):
not AppSumo apps flyer, for appsor, a Provo code.
So all these things show youwhere the demand was captured.
How do people actually go in andbuy the thing that you're
selling?
But how do you know?
What help them make thedecision.
And like you said, they do thisin chat rooms.
They do this on TikTok, they dothis on Instagram, they do this
on different servers that youdon't have access to, like 80
(34:17):
something percent.
And that's from an actualresearch that was done.
80 something percent of theresearch phase happens before a
costume.
Ever engages with anything thecompany has access to, meaning
most of the journey happensbefore.
So how do you track that part?
And the way to track that partis through different things.
One, like I said before, is justengagement.
(34:37):
How many people engaged with thedifferent content on, on online?
That means, okay, we're creatingsome.
Of the right content that peoplecare about.
But the other thing is you canput on your website, on the
form, and if it's a B2B company,that's usually how it works.
Somebody wants to talk to asalesperson, they wanna know
more about the product.
You can put in a field thatsays, how did you hear about us?
(34:57):
And make it mandatory and makeit an open field with text.
And then people will tell you, Iwas watching, TikTok videos by
so-and-so influencer.
I was listening to thosepodcasts and a few people
recommended this.
And people will tell you thesethings that you have absolutely
no other way of knowing.
And if you have enough volume,very clear, very quickly, you'll
(35:18):
start seeing a pattern.
Where the demand is actuallybeing generated versus where the
demand is captured, which wantsall the direct clicks and so on.
Cookies, will tell you in thecombination of the two, can help
you make better strategicresults on how to change and
shift your future campaigns.
So I love all these things.
Let's go to b2b.
(35:39):
What kind of things you'reseeing in the B2B world today
that are successful leveraginginfluencer?
Alessandro Bogliari (35:46):
Yeah.
So one thing that you know, alsoto get back to what we were
saying now about looking also inin dark type of engagement and
data and metrics, one thing thatwe noticed also for B2B is
actually the idea that if you'rerunning an influencer marketing
campaign and you see a peak inbranded search on Google.
That's a good indicator thatpeople are looking at that.
(36:07):
And the same, you can do it forb2b, right?
Many times, especially in theb2b, that is niche.
If you just see like somethingthat is coming on your Google
Analytics, for example, thatcomes from Google searches,
right?
You can go and search consoleand look if there is an impact
on that one.
There is also something thatthey're like B2B are using more
for authority, for seo O and soon.
The same also for b2.
(36:29):
Ana YouTube video or a blogpost, or a podcast with the name
of the brander and somethingthat is related to the, those
brand searches is gonna be evenmore, much more powerful for B2B
than Ana TikTok video that goesviral for one day, right?
Or in Instagram Real, forexample.
Why?
Because if you really go on astrategy about, let's say you
want to dominate SEO on YouTube,I do do it.
(36:49):
How do you do it?
Either you, it takes you fiveyears to build your own brand
account.
You can do it of.
or you go to influencers thatare really already dominating
for those keywords and you canask them to put your brand name
in the, in the title, in thedescription, in the AKs, in the
tags and so on.
And whenever someone is gonna,let's say, look for your brand
(37:09):
name solution review, forexample, you can narrate how
however you want, instead ofevery others, right?
Get there before you.
So the s e o for social media isquite important.
We've also been seeing lately,You know, like younger people
are using TikTok as a searchengine.
You want also to dominate that,right?
If I am in the b2b, why should Iwait for others to create
(37:32):
content that I cannot controlover the narrative while I can
go there and be the first oneand getting five, 10 people,
right?
Like, you know, really, reallystrong on that topic.
I'm thinking about like, youknow, could be even like,
insurance companies and like,you know, banking solutions for
other businesses.
I've been seeing also like, youknow, like let's say, you know,
like other companies helpingsmall businesses, right?
(37:53):
With their needs.
In that case, I would likereally get, you know, five to 10
people maybe, you know, onTikTok, YouTube and so on, and I
would use my brand name pluswhatever I want to be associated
with.
So anytime that someone is gonnaGoogle you.
The same day or in six years,most probably gonna find those
videos.
And the good thing also is thatif you put a tracking link in
(38:13):
those descriptions, they'regonna stay there.
So of course you're gonna see apeak at the beginning, but might
be that in three years you'restill gonna get link, clicks and
potential customers from thatspecific video.
So I will look into long termand only short term.
The short term gives you theburnout.
Where is that?
That like, you know, sort of.
Boosting, but sometimes the peakon social media and virality can
(38:35):
also actually backfire.
What if you cannot control overa new like big quite of people
coming to your service, to yourproduct and so on?
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you are like, you know, evenby, let's say B2B hardware,
right?
For example, you don't haveenough of those like in store,
right?
So there is all these differentquestions and, and the last one
I want to say also, we've beenseeing also.
More people in d B2B that aretrying to, and I'm talking about
(38:58):
maybe certain I don't like, youknow, could be devices, could be
again, on the hardware side,could be, especially physical,
physical products.
There are mostly B2B and theytry to get the majority of these
products online and show intraction so that they can go
back these companies to targetWalmart and the others and be
like, look at this.
We're getting traction.
Can we enter physic?
(39:19):
And sell it from here.
And I would say that these bigbrands, all the distribution
channels are realizing that, youknow, we all know that the
TikTok may be buyed.
Now in some, even in Walmart,you have like, like so on, on
TikTok, there is the new C onTikTok.
So if you can also do the samein the B2B and go there, and
that, for example, is one of thethings like, how can I enter in
(39:40):
something that difficult?
If you show that the attraction,if you see that people are
loving it, They might be moreinclined to open that channel as
well in terms of distribution.
So again, we've been seeing manythings from the B2C world in the
b2b, but it's still, I would saystill experimental budgets are a
bit bigger sometimes.
Mostly because it's companies,but it's all a little
presentation of the total, youknow, budgets per the year.
Isar Meitis (40:04):
What do you see as examples on how some of the
brands you're working with B2Bbrands, how they are.
And obviously we don't have tomention names of the company, so
we don't disclosing anyspecific, company information,
but, but good examples on how ainfluencer campaign is helping a
B2B brand.
What tactics are they using?
(40:25):
What results are they seeing?
Stuff like that.
Alessandro Bogliari (40:28):
Yeah, I can tell you one case study that we
are working on that I identifiedthat would be interesting,
especially works well with,YouTubers.
Another one that is more of anexample of things are like, you
know, public, other, and casestudies, right?
Whenever it comes to b2b.
So the one that we ed it is, oneof the biggest, suppliers for
B2B from coming from from China.
So anything that is like,creating quality products.
(40:51):
For suppliers and the B2B space.
So, you know, like don't thinkabout any, if there is like
cheap type of material, but it'sactually good, you know, items
that you only can purchase rightin, in bulk.
And working with this clientagain, you know, there is not a
direct supplier, so it can onlywork with b2b.
The challenge for us was like,how can you remove the sort of
(41:12):
boring part right?
Of something like that, right?
And actually sell it.
Other people.
And in this case it was mostlycommunicate from YouTubers to
other people that have businessthat need new suppliers.
And you know, it could be fordrop shipping, could be for
their converses, could be that,for example, they need a
specific item to build on onthat with their own branding.
(41:34):
And sometimes you don't evenknow where to start.
You can yeah, Google it around.
But for example, there are manyquestions like in the, in the
e-commerce space, you know, forexample, you know, is that
product really good?
How can I, you know, eveninitiate right.
The negotiation skills if theydon't know, for example.
So something that we did in thissite was both having YouTubers
talk about this, supplier andlooking at about things like
(41:56):
they tested their own product tosee if they were good.
So physically they're like,testing in the mountain or just
showing up?
Yeah.
In terms of listing, then, youknow, like, We did also like,
apart from integration was forexample, the education side.
So these YouTubers were educatedon their YouTube channels.
A are you looking now to expandyour business?
Fantastic.
You need a supplier.
Let's go into negotiation skillswhenever it comes to b2b.
(42:19):
So it was never just likequarterly promotional, but the
educational part is crucial whenit comes to b2b.
You want to sell knowledge alsoand not just a, a, a service.
And then if you are a reallygood storyteller, you can be
like, I tested a product foryou.
Next time we're gonna go intonegotiation skills.
Fantastic.
Then the next time we're gonnatalk about, for example, you
(42:40):
know, things like, okay, I haveto, you know, like I need,
business ideas and how to makemoney with eCommerce.
The next one is gonna be how tofind the right, brands.
Sorry, the right products areworking well in that period.
Is there any trends happeningonce you go in that all that
education you already, they'regonna.
First of all, I trust thisperson because it just didn't
mely sell to me a product or aservice.
(43:00):
It educated me in X amount oftime.
Now, trust it enough to be okay.
Now it's my time.
Oh, what was that supplier thatthey integrated me?
Oh, it was this one.
You know what?
I'm gonna click on the one.
I know that I can trust them.
I know that most probably theinfluencer is gonna also.
Get something out of it.
Right?
Because they're gonna mostly getsome sort of thing.
And if you're thinking as abusiness person, you know how
(43:21):
much it is important, right?
Also to help other businesses.
So we did it in this case,again, this was the idea of a,
of a supplier and really was outto add together education Plus,
Actionable item and the rightservice to use.
Right?
So these are like some, some ofthe ideas like how to find
suppliers, how to meet withthem, how to trade right, are so
(43:42):
specific as things that you wantto have an authority.
You want to have someone theycan trust.
And once you have it, if theycan also give you, you know
what, don't look anymore aboutdifferent 20,000 solutions.
This is the one that I test.
I'll accurate.
And through this link you canmaybe access without preferred
login or you know, you don'thave to wait on the wait list or
(44:02):
the first ship, it's for free.
You know, anything like that.
So that is like one key study,for example, that we run on.
And it was really interesting tosee educational plus actionable
items and on something instead.
Totally different.
That also would be interestingfor b2b.
I've been seeing that like from,you know, American Express or
like, you know, or actually likeibm, for example, ibm.
(44:24):
When it comes to influencermarketing and and I had the
chance to talk with, one of theperson in charge of that, on our
own podcast, he told me that,they whenever can also use their
own employees as influencers.
Why?
Because you, as an employee, youdo that like it's your brand and
butter.
You very well know like theproducts, how do they work?
(44:44):
You know more about the company.
You are really like notpassionate about usually, the,
the company you're working for.
And so, you know, IBM has beendoing that.
I also thought, I think alsothat Adobe, I've done that, I've
seen many linking videos ofactual professionals, employees
of Adobe showing you how to usea new feature, for example, for
the Adobe suite and IBM is doingthe same, right?
(45:05):
For, the B2B side, both.
Hardware side, but alsosoftware.
It's the same.
Also, IBM did it also forWatson.
Right?
One of their, their servicesthere.
So using employees also, it's agreat way, again, it's not for
everyone.
Usually it's for maybe biggercompanies that can accommodate
that in terms of needs, in termsof organizing all the campaign.
But it's, it's a great way totalk in a way that is not
(45:29):
necessarily to corporate, butyou still are backed up by all.
Like all the history, all the,all the, all the leverage, all
the, you know, strength of acompany.
So again, two totally differentthings.
One is, the initial one is B2BYouTubers, straight to the point
in terms of like this knowledge,this is what you need and so on.
And others instead, in the b2b,what if you use employee and.
(45:51):
Before we were like, call advoadvocate.
What if we transfer them in?
Influencers and contentcreators, Los Angeles would like
to add it, is that somecompanies are actually investing
on their employees and they areteaching them how to create
becoming content creators,right?
This is the lighting, this isthe maximum to use.
This is, you usually host awebinar.
and we've seen successful thingsfor the B2C and nowadays also
for the b2b.
(46:12):
So, Totally different, but, justunderstand that you can do
potentially both together ordepending on the top of the
company.
Choose one of the two.
Isar Meitis (46:21):
Brilliant.
I wanna add a few things becauseI, I think you touched on so
many important points.
One, I'll start with what youtalked about in the end about
being an enabler for youremployees to be, you know, the
megaphone of the company.
To, to be the, the, the face ofthe company.
Companies who are not doingthis, and the only thing I
disagree with you is it could bea company of three people,
(46:41):
right?
Mm-hmm.
it doesn't have to be i b M.
If you understand the power ofhuman connection as a way to
build relationships, as a way tobuild an audience that is the
relevant audience for what youdo, the easiest way to do this
is with your own employees.
And instead of saying, well, youknow, if you have time, go do
this as a hobby, you build astudio in your office and you
(47:03):
give people slots of time towork there.
You buy them the microphone andthe lighting so they have a
better setup at home, and youhelp them promote the stuff.
You give them the righteducation on how to do this.
You will gain in the long run, ahuge benefit of now having more
content, very authentic comingfrom real people that will
(47:24):
develop an audience, and goingback to what I said before in a
different context.
One is a computer programmer,one is a VP of hr, and, and, and
one is, is the head of product,right?
It's, it's very differentthings, but they're each gonna
talk about stuff that they'repassionate about that is somehow
tied to your company that willconnect with some people that
will then wanna do business withyou because they have a better
(47:45):
understanding of your business.
So I.
This is a huge important advicethat most companies do not do
today.
More and more are starting tothough, because it's really a
great way to do it.
The second thing that I wannamention, there's a guy called
Chris Walker.
Stupidly smart.
That's a really dumb thingtoday.
I really smart really smartmarketer, one of the top
marketers in the world todaymaybe.
(48:06):
And he talks about how helearned what he now built a
company that in a few years made20 million, selling.
But the way he started, he wasin, in the medical device.
And he didn't know enough aboutit because he just moved into
the indu to the industry.
So he started interviewingdoctors who were using their
products, and they're notinfluencers, but they're real
(48:29):
people in the actual quoteunquote field who use medical
devices.
And he is like, why are youusing this?
Why are you using this and notthe competition?
What benefits did you gain byusing just, he did this for his
own research.
But then he is like, oh my God,this is pure gold.
So he started posting thatcontent of an actual doctor and,
(48:50):
and how do you get to thesedoctors?
They're not gonna come to you.
And we're talking before Zoom.
So he drove to hospitals.
So you're in a hospital facilitywith your phone filming a quote,
unquote very, you know, intimateand yet non-professional
interview with a doctor on whyhe's using your medical device.
And now you post.
(49:11):
He started getting huge amountson Facebook that, again, it's a
non-professional kind of worldon other doctors saying, is this
true?
Like, do you have any proof?
Do you have any actual studies?
So then he started conversationswith more and more bigger
doctors, which he then did thesame thing.
Like, okay, what if I give youthis device to try it out?
Will you then be willing to doan interview with me after you
(49:35):
use it for a month and let meknow what you think.
Now you have somebody who's abigger.
Name that actually more peopleknow ahead of a regional
hospital that is gonna do thesame thing.
So if, if you want, it's like agrassroot way to do influencer
marketing, but if you're gettingthe people who will get
(49:56):
engagement from the rightaudience, it doesn't matter if
nobody else knows them, itdoesn't matter.
They don't have half a millionfollowers if they have 20 off
the right doctors.
Or in a general case, yourbuyers.
I'm like, oh my God, this isexactly what I was looking for
as this solves a huge problem Ihave, and now these 23 of them
(50:16):
will be your next level ofevangelists.
You win on all different aspectswith a relatively small budget
because these people are notquote unquote influencers.
They're not gonna charge you$4,000 a month.
They just wanna understand moreon the topic and help you and
them solve a problem.
So, great, great advice.
Everything you.
We could keep on going aroundthis for for probably another
(50:39):
hour.
if people wanna learn more aboutyou, about what you do, they
want to connect with you, theywanna listen to your podcast,
they wanna work with youragency.
What are the best ways to dothat,
Alessandro Bogliari (50:48):
Alessandro?
Yeah, absolutely.
I would say three main ones.
So the influencer marketmanufacturing.com is our
website.
There are some case studiesthere, a bit outdated.
We're now refreshing the websitesoon, but that gives you an
indication of what we do, allthe service that we offer.
the second one is the influencefactor.
it's our own podcast.
We also have like fantasticpeople that jump on every single
(51:09):
week that are either from thecreative.
Influencer marketing, socialcommerce, livestream, you know,
and reporters like everyone thatreally is touching somehow in
all these different topics.
So we have them and it's this,you know, 30, 40 minutes
conversation with them while Ipush be more, because we also
realized the podcasting, it's,it's quite good in the video
towe phase.
So we're loving it.
And the last one is my ownlinking.
(51:30):
So if you look for my name,Alessandro Bo.
They want to admin there.
I also have the creator mode on,I post whenever I can in like,
you know, almost every day aboutsomething.
So you can also connect oreither like, follow me, whatever
you want there just to be in theloop of what is happening.
so I would say that these arethe three main things, but we're
everywhere of course.
Right.
You know, I've been, been anagency.
(51:50):
We have also to do our ownhomework.
But this, I would say that theeasiest and fastest way, if you
want to either connect with mepersonally or learn more about
our.
Awesome.
Isar Meitis (52:00):
Alessandro.
This was really educational.
I've learned a lot.
I'm sure people listening,learned a lot.
Thank you so much for taking thetime and sharing with me and my
Alessandro Bogliari (52:09):
audience.
Absolutely.
Thank you for having me.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!