Companies with strong leadership and a positive culture outperform companies that do not have those. BUT the path to becoming a great leader and developing a healthy culture is not clear
Hence why R. Michael Anderson is such a sought-after speaker. As he has developed a framework that helps business leaders develop the right mindset.
He developed a 4 stage process, he calls the it Growth leadershiop path
💥 Release and reset
💥 Rewire and reprogram
💥 Leading others - conversation motivation
💥 Strategy and Influence
In this fascinating interview, R-Michael provides details and examples for each and every one of the 4 steps, making it practical and clear.
He also shares some of his fascinating personal story.
Connect with Michael on LinkedIn
Check out Leadership Mindset 2.0
Hi, It's Isar the host of the Business Growth Accelerator Podcast
I am passionate about growing businesses and helping CEOs, business leaders, and entrepreneurs become more successful. I am also passionate about relationship building, community creation for businesses, and value creation through content.
I would love it if you connect with me on LinkedIn. Drop me a DM, and LMK you listened to the podcast, what you think and what topics you would like me to cover 🙏
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Isar Meitis (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Business Growth
Accelerator.
This is Isar Meitis, your host,and you heard me say many times
how a strong believer I am inculture and in leadership as a
critical component of running asuccessful business and
companies who have thatoutperform businesses who do not
have that?
And it's statistically proven.
(00:20):
It's just, just not just mefeeling that way.
But what makes good leadershipand how to develop a healthy
culture is a lot more elusivethan just knowing that this is
the right way to go.
Michael Anderson has anincredible life story that will
let him share with us, but I'lltell you this.
He learned the hard way.
(00:40):
He has personal scars to provewhat he's gonna talk about.
And he did that before and wentto academia to learn that and
then implemented it insuccessful businesses.
So going through, if you wantthree stages of learning through
personal experience, thenacademic experience, and then in
actual businesses made him oneof the biggest sought after
(01:01):
mentors and speakers when itcomes to developing leadership
and culture and companies.
And like I said, since I'm ahuge believer in this, I'm
humbled and excited to have himas a guest of the show today.
(02:10):
Michael, welcome to the
Michael Anderson (02:11):
Business Growth Accelerator.
ISAR.
Hey, it's good to be here.
Good to be here.
And all the listeners out there,just wanna say hello.
Isar Meitis (02:17):
Awesome.
I usually don't do this.
I usually don't dial to people'spersonal history, but I, I think
with you, Very important becauseyou have some personal aspects
that led you to where you aretoday with your knowledge and
your work.
So take us back to like bigmilestone in, in the process
that led you to where
Michael Anderson (02:37):
you are today.
Yeah, sure.
So, you know, I started out as aprogrammer, worked my way up the
corporate ladder, founded myfirst software company in
California in my mid thirties,and we had some success very
quickly.
it was in enterprise software,so SAP and Microsoft Dynamics.
We grew from the trunk of my carto a couple million dollars
within I think two years.
(03:00):
From the outside, it looked likewe were doing good.
We were, we were making money.
I, we were well known around thearea.
I was on the front page of thenewspaper and that was great.
But, but internally it wasreally not a good situation.
I felt I was so not prepared forall the stress I had to deal
with.
we had, you know, rent,insurance people, lawyers,
(03:21):
accountants, you know, all the,this crazy stuff.
We had, our clients were ahundred million dollar a year
companies with our softwarerunning their business.
And Esau, man, I just, I feltlike such a fraud.
I felt so out of my depth.
That was a good.
Good technical person, a goodbusiness person, but I was not a
good leader and that causedproblems for the company and it
(03:44):
caused problems for me mentallyand emotionally.
I would go in and outta in andoutta depressions.
I was doing, to be honest, I wasdrinking a lot, doing a lot of
hard drugs, like, like way, waytoo many.
And then on April 1st, 2008, Ihad a key employee that I gave
some equity to him and I gotinto a disagreement and he ended
up hitting me.
He ended up assaulting.
(04:05):
So Wow.
The next day when he came in, Ihad an armed guard handing him a
restraining order and atermination letter and a copy of
the lawsuit.
And, yeah.
And as, as I I'll reme, we wereon the second floor.
So as each employee came in, Ihad to send him down and say,
Hey, you know the guy youreported to, he's no longer here
cuz he hit me.
(04:25):
And I had to call all of our,the C F O of.
International companies and say,Hey, you know, your executive
sponsor at our company, he's nolonger here and I can't tell you
why.
And yeah, you know, they, someof'em would have these massive
projects going on, so theyweren't happy.
And of course he started acompetitor and started poaching
people.
And now went into, I went into abit of a tailspin and I was
like, what's happening for to mylife?
(04:47):
You know, I'm, I'm achieving mygoals, I'm having the success,
I'm making the money if peopleknow me.
I'm somewhat respected, youknow, around the community, but
I'm, I'm so unhappy and I hatemy life.
And, and I, you know, my biggestfear you saw was I would just
try to get to the next day, butmy biggest fear was that
somebody would find out that Idon't know what I'm doing and
I'm just winging it.
(05:08):
And that I'd be exposed asmassive fraud.
And, and.
I am like, I gotta fix, I gottafigure this thing out.
I gotta figure this business andlife thing out, or I'm gonna
literally end up dead.
I'm leaving some of the dramaticstuff out and and so I ended up
earning a master's in spiritualpsychology.
And that's nothing to do withreligion.
It's a very compassionate viewof psychology.
And when I, obviously I changedmy personal life, but when I
(05:30):
started applying that to my, tomy company and at one point I
owned three companies, that'swhen we really started to, to
thrive because we were on theInc 5,000 list of fastest
growing companies.
A couple years in a row, we wonthe number one best place to
work, and I won SocialEntrepreneur of the year.
that's externally.
But internally I was, I'mfinally, I was finally having
fun as a leader.
(05:51):
And it's because I shifted mymindset and I really understood
what made me tick.
And my employees tick and mycustomers tick.
And it was, it was, but from acompassionate, positive place.
And it was such a, Massivechange for me that after a bunch
of years, I, I divested myselfin my software companies.
Now what I do is I teachleadership mindset.
So companies like Uber,Microsoft, Salesforce, bring me
(06:15):
in Stanford, bring me into workwith a startup ecosystem that's
I teach.
And I wanted'em to get aneuroscience certificate, so
thanks for letting me that,that's the background.
I figured everybody's good toknow, a little of the context,
but we'll get into theleadership stuff.
But that's how I got in cuz Iscrewed everything up.
Eastar man.
I was messing everything up.
So that's why I, I learned howto, to fix a little bit for
myself and other people.
Isar Meitis (06:35):
First of all, I, I'm, I'm really happy you were
able to go through that becausea lot of people don't.
A lot of people who are in thatspiral end up crashing to the
hard ground and, and never getup.
And so I'm glad you are and I'mglad you're teaching other
people to do this.
You said something that I'mgonna piggyback on.
You said you figured out whatmake you tick and what makes
other people tick.
And I think that's a keycomponent to seeing success is
(07:00):
understanding how our internal.
Spirit head mindset works.
How do you do that?
Like how do, how can peoplefigure out what makes them tick?
And I think, I think it's reallyinteresting because even people
who have good or preservationand can figure what makes other
people tick, it's a lot harderto figure out what makes you
(07:23):
tick.
So what's the process that youteach people to do in order to
do that?
I assume very first step.
Michael Anderson (07:29):
Yeah.
And, and, and it's interestingcause I do use that phrase and
now that you brought it up,it's, it's interesting to
reflect on, and I do somewhatteach what makes me and other
people tick.
But the, the, the key thing cuzif I, I have what's called the
foundational rule of leadershipand that is your leadership is a
reflection of your relationshipwith yourself.
(07:52):
Okay.
And we, and, and you know,there's so many phrases we hear
thrown around on leadership likeauthenticity and vulnerability,
which it's important for aleader to be authentic and
vulnerable, but you can't tell aleader to be more authentic and
vulnerable.
It's like, you can't tellsomebody to be more handsome or
more funny or more likely
Isar Meitis (08:15):
Yeah.
Well, you can, it usuallydoesn't work though.
Yeah,
Michael Anderson (08:18):
you can like, it's like go be more funny.
you know, it's like, so youcan't, if somebody being
authentic and vulnerable andbeing, you know, a, a leader
that people respect, that peoplefollow is, is a result of doing
certain things.
In concept and, and we can talkin more detail on this.
For me, exa for example, Irealized that back then one of
(08:39):
my best, my biggest prob, mybiggest learning was that I was
spending so much time cuz I wasso insecure.
And then the more pressure, thatbrought up more insecurities
that I was spending so much timetrying to be somebody that I
thought other people wanted meto.
be So that I would be acceptedso that I would be liked, so
(09:00):
that I would be respected.
And sometimes that activelyactually ended up looking me
being a jerk.
But anyway, it's it's, it's so,you know, it's, it's, it's
illogical sometimes.
but then as I went through thisprogram, and it took me a lo a
long time and it's, you know,it's a lifetime thing, but I
really understood who I was and,and I got to know, like, and
trust myself and that, andthat's important.
(09:21):
People talk about self-love andself-love is important, but it's
a bit of a deep.
It's a, it's a deep concept.
It takes a while to really getyour head around.
But you know, I got to know whoI was.
Know like, and trust.
I got to know who I was.
I got to like who I was, so Iwasn't afraid to bring it out.
It's like, Hey, I like who I amand then I got to trust myself.
And as a leader, that's where,you know, the trust is a
resilience, right?
(09:41):
Because if we.
Resilience is just a fact oftrusting ourself that we're
gonna be able to get throughthis.
liking yourself as charisma cuzwhen you like yourself, other
people like you, and thatdoesn't mean you're arrogant,
but that means you have thislightness about you and you can
laugh at yourself, for example.
You can, you can be humble inthat, in that confident way.
and then knowing myself.
That's where that authenticitycomes from because I show up
(10:02):
now, I know what my values are,what I stand for, and I'm not
afraid to stand for them.
And that's where thatauthenticity comes from.
So, and that's really what Iwork with leaders to do, is to
get into a more compassionate,stronger relationship with
themselves, because then theycan show up as them and be
strong in that power.
Isar Meitis (10:20):
I love everything you said, especially, you know,
the people talk a lot aboutknow, like, trust in getting
clients, right?
And you talk about this beforeyou get clients, do this
internally and, and you, youtook us back in like yourself,
like yourself.
You know yourself.
(10:41):
How you do that.
I can really understand who youare and.
Start that journey to knowingyourself and then liking
yourself and then trustingyourself.
what is, do you have like asystem, a process, a mindset
thing that you gotta do in orderto figure out, okay, who am I
really versus who am I trying tolook like, like you said,
Michael Anderson (11:03):
I, I absolutely do.
And then there's a lot therethat you, you shared and.
I have what's called the growthleadership path, and there's,
there's four steps.
Cause I, I teach what I callgrowth leadership because it's
all based on the leader growingas a person.
And as the leader grows, thenthey grow other people.
A and they turn into leaders,and then everybody grows and
(11:25):
your company grows.
So, but it's got four steps.
The first is when we'll gothrough these, we can go, th
it's, it's, it's interestingrelease and reset.
Because there's things thatpeople are doing that are
holding themselves back.
we have beliefs.
We have habits even where, whatgot us here being tactical.
Now we need to be strategic, sowe have to get rid of how we
used to be doing things.
(11:45):
And then it's rewire andreprogram, you know, so, How do
we build ourself back up withthat resilience and that
confidence and really knowingwho we are.
And then I work on leadingothers.
So you know, whether it's havingdifficult conversations, whether
it's inspiring, whether it'smotivating people.
And then the fourth one I teachis strategy and influence how to
become strategic.
Cuz a lot of people are like, Ineed to, becomes.
(12:08):
be more strategic.
My boss told me, or I need my,my, my management team to be
more strategic.
But they don't even really knowwhat that means.
They, and they have an idea, butit's not about having a
strategy, but it's about everyconversation they have, being
more strategic, having astrategy for a customer or a
project or their team.
So how do you do that?
How do you relate to a c e O ofa larger company or an investor?
(12:31):
So it's having those convers.
Isar Meitis (12:34):
Brilliant.
Let's break this down a leveldeeper.
So you said step one, releaseand reset.
Yes.
What does that mean?
How do I do that?
Michael Anderson (12:44):
So there's two, there's two things that we
normally need to release andreset.
One is, self limiting beliefsand those, these are things that
we picked up by where we wereborn, how our parents raised us.
I say that.
Leadership is one of the mostunintuitive things that we'll
ever do because if you thinkabout it, when you're born and
(13:04):
you're a child, you're afollower, you know your and, and
your parents are telling youwhat to do.
Then you get to school andpeople are telling you what to
do, and then you get touniversity, people are telling
you what to do, and then you getto your, your first job, people
are telling you what to do.
So, you know, from 0 to 30,99.999 of your, your, your, your
life has been as a follower Andso you've had almost no practice
(13:29):
leading and then all of a suddenyou have to lead and then you're
used to being so there, there'sa bit more to that, but you know
whether, you know, did, did yourparents model good leadership?
Did you have great leadershiprole models?
A lot of us, the answer is no.
So we're, we're, we get intothis place.
Where, and you know, we, weoften weren't taught to take
risks growing up.
We, we often weren't take,weren't empowered.
(13:51):
Part of that's the old schoolthing, and part of that's just
the way life is.
So we have all these things thatare holding us back.
But then also, you know, ifyou're like a good marketing
person, you're really good at,getting into the details and
being very analytical and then,And then all of a sudden you're
in a leadership and then youhave to communicate, you have to
empower, you have to motivate.
(14:12):
You have to inspire.
But then a problem comes up andthen what you wanna do is you
wanna be the superwoman orSuperman and jump back in and
fix everything.
Cuz that's how you used to get apat on the back and your
dopamine hit.
It's literally an addictionbeing tactical.
So you have to, you have tochange your habits of what
actually used to give you.
The atta boys or atta girls oratta persons.
(14:34):
You know what I mean?
So it's, you have to break thesehabits.
Isar Meitis (14:38):
I absolutely love it.
I want to touch on two pointsthat kind of triggered things in
my mind.
one when you talked about.
You know, you just give me alens to look at something I was
talking about for years, but I,I, I, I couldn't put exactly why
and a lot of people did that.
So I grew up in Israel andthere's a huge tech scene in
Israel and a lot of successfultech startups and a lot of
successful business people cameout of Israel.
(15:00):
And, and nobody exactly can sayexactly why.
And everybody says, well, it'sbecause of the military service.
I'm like, okay.
Yes.
It makes you grow up faster andyou have to be out there on your
own without your parents and,and face a real enemy.
And sometimes your life is athreat, which makes you grow up
faster.
I get it.
How does that make you a betterbusiness leader?
(15:20):
I don't know, but what you said,it's like, okay, it's the first
time people become commandersinitially in a lower level.
Okay.
So you're just.
Six people and then 20, and then50, and then whatever very
quickly in a very, very earlyage.
And for many people, it'sliterally a responsibility for
(15:41):
people's lives.
And it's not just the peoplethey command, it's the people.
They protect, right?
So if you fail to do this, theseother people on the other side
of the fence may do 1, 2, 3.
That will kill other people inTel Aviv.
So the level of responsibilityand leadership that you gotta
have in order to do this startsat a much younger age, then
(16:03):
probably anywhere else on theplanet.
And I never thought about itthrough this lens.
So I appreciate what you justsaid.
As far.
We don't experience that usuallyuntil later in life when we
become different levels ofmanagers in companies.
So that's one thing you saidthat I, that I really
appreciate.
Michael Anderson (16:18):
Well that's, that, that's really interesting
because the military does dosomething really well and they
do prepare people for leadershipreally well, cuz they, and and
you're right.
You gotta grow up really fastand take that maturity and that
re That's real.
That's a really interestingpoint.
I.
The other
Isar Meitis (16:32):
point that I, I'm, I'm about to launch a new
podcast.
This is probably the first timeI'm saying this to anybody that
well out in the open, right?
So the new podcast is gonna beabout AI in businesses, and so
can replace this podcast if youwant.
It's, it's, it's a sub path ofhow to grow businesses,
leveraging ai, because I thinkthat's where the world is going,
and I think literally it's gonnachange everything we know in the
(16:53):
next very near future.
But the interesting part of thatis what I see a lot of people
mistake is going back to whatyou just said.
They dive straight into thetactics.
Ooh, I've got this new widgetand it can do this and that, and
that can replace this thing thatI'm doing today.
I'm like, awesome.
But it's a business, it's acompany, it's a machine.
(17:13):
You can just change one cog andthings will change.
It's not like you gotta think,okay, strategically, how do I
change processes in thebusiness?
To now leverage these tools thatI have, does that change the
goals that I've set?
If the goals are the same, okay,so maybe I don't need these two
tools, even though they'rereally cool and really amazing.
(17:34):
So I think as, as people and asbusiness leaders, we have the
tendency to jump into thetactics because it's quick and
simple and we get immediateresults, but it doesn't
necessarily help the strategy ofthe business achieve the goals
better or faster.
And so I absolutely love thepoints you raise.
I think now I understand whatyou mean by release and reset.
(17:55):
Let's go to step two.
You said rewrite
Michael Anderson (17:58):
and reprogram.
Rewire and reprogram.
Rewire and reprogram.
Yes.
Yeah.
So that's giving people, the,the, the tools that they need to
really understand who they are.
And you know, there's a great.
Sometimes with my coachingclients, what we do is we do
what you might call adeclaration where they write
down who they are and it looks alittle different for everybody.
(18:20):
And, and people talk aboutvalues, their sometimes or their
vision.
This is like an accumulation of,of like, who are you?
And it's interesting, it's agreat question to ask anybody,
like when, when you ask, who areyou?
And I don't wanna hear you're afather or you're a C F O or
you're a mom.
You know what I mean?
Those are roles we play.
That's not who you are.
(18:40):
And you know, are youindependent?
Are you driven?
Are you com compassionate?
You know, what are you and, andhow does that all relate?
And that's really importantthing to figure out because
until you figure that out, it'shard to really stand in who you
are as a leader.
And it's a really beautifulthing.
You know, I work a lot onconfidence.
I help a lot of people withovercome imposter syndrome.
(19:01):
I, I help a lot of people reallystep into themselves.
You know, so many this stuffthat we talk, that people talk
about, like resilience and, andpresence, all that's really due
based on the, the relationshipwith ourselves.
And again, when we can reallytrust ourselves and like
ourselves, know ourselves,that's real.
That really takes care of a,that, that's really the root
(19:21):
solution to a lot of theseissues.
So it's really having thatperson get to know who they.
Isar Meitis (19:26):
I really like it.
I'm trying to understand thehow.
Michael Anderson (19:32):
Okay, so I'm gonna pull my book out.
I'm gonna pull my book out,leadership Mindset 2.0.
Give you a couple specifics sothat we can Yeah, because,
Isar Meitis (19:38):
because you said, okay, go write down who you are.
I'm like, oh my God, I gotta dothis.
But like how do I even getstarted?
Like what's, give, give me aframework to work with that I
can figure this out, because I'mlike, this is such a, it's, it's
a, it's an amazing question thatI've never asked myself.
Yes, I assume most peopledidn't, but I'm like, okay, how
do I approach, like, you know,I, in my head I have frameworks
(20:01):
for many different things.
I don't have a framework forthis.
Michael Anderson (20:04):
Well, the framework for, for coming up
with that, like declaration forexample.
I mean, it, it's iterative andit's a little different, but
it's, you know, you write downwho you think you are and then,
and then as a coach, I gothrough and we really test that.
Is that really you or who youwant to be?
Is that really your core?
Is that your d n a?
And some of it is, is dedeclaring who you are.
And some of it is, is a bitaspirational.
(20:25):
Like for example, like I'm.
You know, I'm compassionate.
Am I compassionate a hundredpercent of the time?
No, I'm 80% of the time, butit's so important to me to, to
really own that, that I declareit.
And so when you declare it, youmove closer to it.
you know, there's some, there'sa difference between honesty and
integrity.
Are you honest every singletime?
That means when you're.
(20:46):
Husband wears shoes you don'tlike, do you, do you tell them?
You know what I mean?
Is how, what, where does, whatdoes that honesty mean?
I mean, is that what you know, Itell my wife, if you ask me how
you look, I'm going, I'm gonnabe the person that is gonna tell
you the truth.
Cuz that's important to me.
That's how I live my life.
I'm not gonna give youvalidation all the time.
Yeah.
you know, I'm, I'm giving you anextreme example, but that, but
(21:07):
people were like, oh, I valuehonesty.
Okay.
You do.
How much, so it's easy to saythese things, but what does that
really mean?
And it's a great, interestingconversation to have.
I love
Isar Meitis (21:19):
it.
I, I always do this exercisewhen it comes to defining core
values for businesses.
And again, I've never thoughtabout it for myself, but I
always tell people at the end ofthe day, your core values are
measured at the extremescenarios, right?
If you have an extreme scenario,are you gonna stick to your core
value knowing that it's gonnadamage your.
(21:42):
Or are you gonna bend the corevalue and do the other thing?
Because it's gonna, it's notgonna damage your business.
That means it's not a corevalue.
So you're basically saying, dothe same thing for yourself.
Write down the, let's say youdon't have a coach, like you
write down the things you sayyou are.
(22:03):
Then come out with extremescenarios in which these things
are being challenged, becauseit's very easy to stand by the
things on the day-to-day.
But then something happens thatis not the day-to-day.
It's, it's a more extreme, I, I,I'll give a business example
because I don't have personalexamples, but you have a core
value that says people have tobe nice to each other in the
(22:23):
business, and your bestsalesperson is a freaking
asshole.
Do you keep him or do you firethe guy?
And he's in charge of 40% of thecompany's revenue.
So let him, let him him go.
Big fucking deal from a businessperspective, not letting him go
(22:45):
is a big fucking deal from acore value perspective.
And now you gotta decide.
And so think about these vescenarios about the traits and
the values and the things youthink you are, and then you know
if they're part of your core ornot, because that will give you
So, I, I love it.
I think it's a, I'm, I'm in myhead doing this with you right
(23:07):
now.
It's
Michael Anderson (23:07):
pH.
Yeah, yeah, I'm right with you.
And I think core val, to me,core values work a little better
for core values are moreapplicable to a business because
you can hire for them.
Like I'm sure you teach this,you can do this, all these other
stuff.
To be core values for a personcan get a little dry.
And that's why we do thedeclaration cuz it can be like
more, it can be a bitaspirational, it can be a bit
(23:28):
visiony.
Yep.
You know, so you put all thestuff you do separately.
It's, it's like an amalgamation.
It can be whatever you want too.
It's, yeah.
And yeah, it's normally about apage long and, and, you know,
you memorize it and I got itfrom a, a guy named Steve
Hardison.
He's, he is a, he is a coach.
He, he does this with some ofhis clients, but it's, it's a
great, it's a great thing foranybody to do, and it's, it's
(23:49):
just, it really can help with,yeah, just getting clear of who
you are and who, who you're,it's a, again, it's a bit
aspirational who you are and abit of who you're declaring
yourself to be.
Brilliant.
Isar Meitis (24:03):
I love this.
So we have two steps, right?
It was release and reset,rewrite and reprogram using the
things we talked about.
Then you.
Leading others beingconversational, motivational.
How do I make that transition?
How do I take what I've learned?
And now basically what you'resaying is, Apply what you've
learned about yourself in orderto help others.
(24:25):
Right.
That's what I'm understanding
Michael Anderson (24:27):
the lines.
Yeah.
The, the first two steps are allinternal to the leader.
The la the second two areexternal.
and, and, and, you know, some ofthat is about having a purpose
and a, and a vision and values.
There's a little bit in there.
I'm, I'm talking about my bookLeadership Mindset 2.0, which
is, which is not a fluffy book.
It's very much an instructionbook on how do this stuff.
Awesome.
and and so, you know, it's alittle bit about there, there is
(24:49):
some about those type of things,but it's about like having
difficult conversations is a bigone.
You know, how do you do that?
Because.
I think it's pretty natural thatwe, we, not a lot of people like
conflict or like having thosethings, but I have a framework
about how to have a difficultconversation.
we'll go through it.
Cause I know you're, you esorry, you like to be real
Isar Meitis (25:08):
practical.
I, I would've asked you if youwouldn't So, go ahead.
Michael Anderson (25:12):
I'm learning mate.
I'm learning So what I do is I,I start with a pre-frame.
so what that means is if youhave a, an employee that's,
coming in, late And you'refrustrated, you probably are
gonna be like, I wanna have ameeting or a conversation
because you're coming in late.
So they're gonna go on thedefensive.
But if, you know this employeewants to become a manager, you
(25:34):
can say, Hey, I wanna, can weset up a meeting?
Cuz I, I really wanna supportyou into your move into a
management.
And it's, it's, it's so small,but the preframe, any
conversation can be, you know,instead of, Hey, hey, I'd like
you to be a guest on my podcast.
Hey, I got a podcast.
That would really raise yourprofile.
You know, it's, it's always, Imean, you're a marketing guy.
(25:56):
Isar You, know this, but it,it's, but it's applying these,
but it, you're applying'em forthe benefit because of, of both
of you.
Because anytime that you have a,somebody in.
The defensive mode, it's notgonna be a productive, or it's
very hard to have a productiveconversation cuz they're
defending themselves.
So anytime you can preframe inthe, in their benefit, the more
I think about it, the more we'retaking marketing and putting it
(26:18):
into this.
so you, you preframe theconversation and, and then, and
then once you start the, the,the conversation, you can do a
couple different things.
You can reframe things andreframe.
there's a whole bunch ofpsychology on, You probably know
this guy, Victor Frankl.
No, I don't.
Oh, he was an Austrian Jew in,world War ii, and he was a
(26:41):
psychiatrist and he went intoAuschwitz, you know, the Nazis
capture and went into Auschwitzand he said, I'm going to
amazing man.
Amazing man.
He says, I'm going to survivethis.
And in doing, I'm going to learnthings and write a book and help
humanity.
And he had that purpose.
And, you know, all his familydied.
(27:02):
It's crazy.
And he got out of it and he, he,he talked about how you can take
away everything from a personexcept for their right to
choose.
Their right to choose how theythink.
How they feel.
And it's like he was in theworst, one of the hu worst thing
for humans ever.
But he'd be like, ah, that's a,that guard just so showed some
humanity or this, this familyjust gave their last piece of
(27:24):
bread to this orphan.
So that, that's beauty.
He would see beauty in thishorrid place.
Yeah.
Because he realized they couldnever take that away from him.
And he wrote a book called Man'sSearch for Meaning, which is one
of the.
Library of Congress says it'sone of the best 10 books ever
written up there with the Quranand the Bible and everything
else.
So, yeah.
so we're pretty far high upthere.
Yeah, it's high up there.
(27:45):
Anyway, sorry, tangent.
He, he talk, talk.
That's reframing.
If Victor re reframe being in aconcentration camp, we can
reframe.
Stuff in a conversation with.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's like, you know, justtaking things and, and really
finding the lesson and, andchanging the frame, changing how
you look at things.
Hey, we lost this customer.
Why do we lose that customer?
Let's never lose a customer likethat again.
(28:06):
Instead of, it's a problem, howcan we learn from it?
That's a reframe.
So, so we have the preframe, wehave the reframe.
And then we, and, and, and the,you know, the employee might
say, oh, I, oh man, people arelosing respect for me cuz I've
been late.
When you tell'em that and you'resay, well, they already respect
you and you're, you've beenlate.
But once you start being ontime, then, then you're gonna
gain more respect.
(28:27):
So this is just Oh, oh, okay.
And you keep'em in really highspirits.
Right.
And then you can have a, a, arealign, which if it goes, if
they start going on a tangent,you can say, hold on a second.
The goal of this is to, yourealign to the preframe so you,
you get'em back to how you wereframing it in the first place.
Cuz you, you always want to keepit positive and forward moving.
(28:47):
And if it gets on a bad tangent,then you realign to your
preframe, which gets everybodyon the right thing again.
And then at the end if you, youknow, assume you have a good
resolution, then you recap.
You're gonna start being on timebecause we had this meeting
because we wanted to make sureyou are gonna get to management.
Did we accomplish that?
They're like, yeah, weaccomplished that.
So you're just ending it.
(29:07):
You're, you're, you are, you're,they're agreeing with you that
you a, achieved your, your.
very positive goal in the firstplace.
So that's, hope.
I hope I'm not going on too muchEssar, I'm just No,
Isar Meitis (29:17):
no, no.
This is, this is awesome.
I, I wanna touch on one pointbecause I, I, again, it, it
connects in my head to differentthings that are similar, going
back to my marketing background,but there's, you know, play
bigger category design.
Again, one of the greatestmarketing books may be ever
written, not any book, butmarketing books, or, or business
books.
I would say it's not exactlymarketing.
And in there they, they talkabout to sell something, you
(29:41):
need to take people they call,they call them tus, which is a
combination of from, and two,you need to show the people what
is the outcome that they desire,that following the process will
get them to, which is reallywhat you're selling.
And they give a lot of examples.
You know, the example I alwayslike to use, which is totally
unrelated to business.
(30:01):
That's why I like to use it.
If you're selling a grill.
You can sell, you know, it hasthis kind of heat and the knobs
are really easy to use, and thething is really easy to clean
and, okay, it's a, it's a grill.
You know, it's not exciting.
But if you're selling a barbecueparty with five year best
buddies watching football and alarge screen TV with piers in
(30:22):
the hand standing around thegrill, this is what you're
selling.
You're selling.
That emotional outcome of thething that will be, if you
follow the process, which isexactly what you said, I'm.
Trying to get you to, I, I amtrying to get you to come on
time, but what I'm selling youis that management leadership
(30:43):
position with you in charge ofpeople that will respect you
more, which is what you reallydesire.
And, and I love that way offraming things.
It's so, so, so smart.
And if you can take, it's a,it's a great way to diffuse any
problematic situation, is totalk about the positive outcome
after the change instead offocusing on the current problem.
(31:04):
So, Great, great stuff, So nowwe talked about leading others
difficult conversations withothers.
What other external things doyou have in that process?
Michael Anderson (31:18):
So, in leading others or in strategy and
influence?
either, well, strategy andinfluence.
I'd like to talk about becausethat's often, I've, I've never
really seen it taught before.
And moving from tactical tostrategic is one shift that
every leader.
You know, outside of a teamleader has to really make, and
there's a couple things aboutit.
You know, the one thing I I tellpeople is, is if they're like, I
(31:39):
wanna be more strategic.
And I'm like, well, how manyhours a a week do you devote to
strategic thinking?
And they just look at me likeI'm crazy.
And, I'm like strategicthinking, you know?
And, and, and I don't justmeaning have the strategy for
the overall business.
That's actually easy.
Normally you go probably.
Essar, you probably do with thiswith companies.
You go away something withsomebody like Essar for like two
(31:59):
days and you pop out with thecompany's strategy, right?
That's, that's freaking easy.
Normally, you know what thestrategy is.
This is having a strategy forthat, that problem employee, for
that really big prospect foryour team, for that next
marketing thing there.
Everything should have a bit ofa strategic, thought around it.
but what strategic thinking is,is, is a reflective, mindful
process.
(32:19):
So, To be strategic, you needto, I tell people that the best
thing you could ever do is acouple of days a week, depending
on how high a level cause thehigher level you are.
And the more, the more strategicyou need to be, the more you
need to do this is to take acouple out, like your first hour
of your day, take that and gostart as on a 20 minute walk
(32:40):
without your phone.
And just walk and, and theneither have an idea of, I need
a, I need to figure out thisproblem, or just go with a blank
mind.
And your mind will just processthings.
Because I look at leader'scalendars and it's, it's, it's.
It's book back to back meetings.
I'm like, how do you everprocess this information?
(33:01):
You need to process information.
And you do that subconsciouslywith your mind just doing it.
And so there's something aboutwalking in nature that, and you
don't even need to think, it'lljust, your brain will think on
its own.
And then after about 10 or 15minutes, your the answer will
come to you.
And then you go back and for thenext 40 minutes, you just only
work on that.
Don't answer your emails, don't,you know, work on that proposal,
(33:24):
work on that new product design,work on that marketing campaign,
and then do the rest of yourday.
You do that a couple mornings aweek and you're, you're a golden
and you know, you may.
If you ever have a, a really bigproblem, go for a two or three
hour walk in the woods withoutyour dog, without a notepad,
without your phone.
And I guarantee after an hourand a half, two hours, you'll,
(33:44):
you'll be like, oh, I, you'llsee it differently.
And that solves any problem I'veever had.
That's been a solution.
Isar Meitis (33:53):
Again.
Great, great, great stuff.
Same guy by the way.
So interesting.
thing, now we're back toChristopher Lockhead and play
bigger.
But, Christopher Lockhead talksabout, he always says that
thinking about thinking is themost important kind of thinking,
which is basically the samething, right?
He's like, because most of thetime you think about a specific
thing.
(34:14):
You're just worried about thislittle problem and you don't
give yourself time to go a layerdeeper, release yourself from
the day-to-day and the smallthings, and think about how do I
think about this problem andrestructure the way you approach
things when you buried in them.
Which in most cases allows youto actually, like you're saying,
(34:35):
come up with a strategy, see adifferent solution, and then you
can actually go and implementit.
And, and I agree with you thatone of the most important thing,
and now we're going the smalldifference with be the small
differences between leadershipand management, but managing
your schedule.
Is a very important time thatallows you to be a good leader,
(34:55):
because otherwise, like you'resaying, you're, you're buried in
the tactics and the day-to-dayin the meetings and the, and and
the processes versus leavingsome space by definition that
nobody can touch because that'swhat allows you to process, be
strategic and work on otherthings.
Amazing stuff.
This is really, really great,Michael.
(35:16):
If people, I mean, you and I cando this probably for the next
three hours and still keep onhaving fun.
but I, I wanna be respectful ofyour time.
If people wanna follow you,learn more about you, read your
stuff, listen to you, connectwith you, work with you, what's
the best
Michael Anderson (35:29):
way to do that?
Sure.
So my name's Michael Anderson,but I, I add the, the letter R
in front of my name cuz my firstname's actually Robert.
And nobody can Google MichaelAnderson and find me cuz there's
too many Michael Anderson.
So I go by r Michael Anderson, rjust remember Robert Michael
Anderson, r Michael Anderson.
and the book is LeadershipMindset 2.0, if anybody's
interested in, in it.
(35:50):
And and I'll tell you what, ifyou buy the book and hit me up
on LinkedIn or something, I'llgive you a couple special cool.
I get a couple templates aboutdelegation, imposter syndrome,
all these other cool littlethings.
So if you, if you heard me here,buy the, buy the book and hit me
up on LinkedIn.
Said I, I saw, I heard you onEsau's, podcast.
I'll give you a couple littlecool, cool things on there.
Isar Meitis (36:11):
Awesome.
Michael or Robert, thank you
Michael Anderson (36:14):
so much.
R r r Michael.
No, no, no.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Yes, sir.
Great talking to you.
Hello and welcome to the Business Growth
Accelerator.
This is Isar Meitis, your host,and you heard me say many times
how a strong believer I am inculture and in leadership as a
critical component of running asuccessful business and
companies who have thatoutperform businesses who do not
have that?
And it's statistically proven.
(00:20):
It's just, just not just mefeeling that way.
But what makes good leadershipand how to develop a healthy
culture is a lot more elusivethan just knowing that this is
the right way to go.
Michael Anderson has anincredible life story that will
let him share with us, but I'lltell you this.
He learned the hard way.
(00:40):
He has personal scars to provewhat he's gonna talk about.
And he did that before and wentto academia to learn that and
then implemented it insuccessful businesses.
So going through, if you wantthree stages of learning through
personal experience, thenacademic experience, and then in
actual businesses made him oneof the biggest sought after
(01:01):
mentors and speakers when itcomes to developing leadership
and culture and companies.
And like I said, since I'm ahuge believer in this, I'm
humbled and excited to have himas a guest of the show today.
(02:10):
Michael, welcome to the
Michael Anderson (02:11):
Business Growth Accelerator.
ISAR.
Hey, it's good to be here.
Good to be here.
And all the listeners out there,just wanna say hello.
Isar Meitis (02:17):
Awesome.
I usually don't do this.
I usually don't dial to people'spersonal history, but I, I think
with you, Very important becauseyou have some personal aspects
that led you to where you aretoday with your knowledge and
your work.
So take us back to like bigmilestone in, in the process
that led you to where
Michael Anderson (02:37):
you are today.
Yeah, sure.
So, you know, I started out as aprogrammer, worked my way up the
corporate ladder, founded myfirst software company in
California in my mid thirties,and we had some success very
quickly.
it was in enterprise software,so SAP and Microsoft Dynamics.
We grew from the trunk of my carto a couple million dollars
within I think two years.
(03:00):
From the outside, it looked likewe were doing good.
We were, we were making money.
I, we were well known around thearea.
I was on the front page of thenewspaper and that was great.
But, but internally it wasreally not a good situation.
I felt I was so not prepared forall the stress I had to deal
with.
we had, you know, rent,insurance people, lawyers,
(03:21):
accountants, you know, all the,this crazy stuff.
We had, our clients were ahundred million dollar a year
companies with our softwarerunning their business.
And Esau, man, I just, I feltlike such a fraud.
I felt so out of my depth.
That was a good.
Good technical person, a goodbusiness person, but I was not a
good leader and that causedproblems for the company and it
(03:44):
caused problems for me mentallyand emotionally.
I would go in and outta in andoutta depressions.
I was doing, to be honest, I wasdrinking a lot, doing a lot of
hard drugs, like, like way, waytoo many.
And then on April 1st, 2008, Ihad a key employee that I gave
some equity to him and I gotinto a disagreement and he ended
up hitting me.
He ended up assaulting.
(04:05):
So Wow.
The next day when he came in, Ihad an armed guard handing him a
restraining order and atermination letter and a copy of
the lawsuit.
And, yeah.
And as, as I I'll reme, we wereon the second floor.
So as each employee came in, Ihad to send him down and say,
Hey, you know the guy youreported to, he's no longer here
cuz he hit me.
(04:25):
And I had to call all of our,the C F O of.
International companies and say,Hey, you know, your executive
sponsor at our company, he's nolonger here and I can't tell you
why.
And yeah, you know, they, someof'em would have these massive
projects going on, so theyweren't happy.
And of course he started acompetitor and started poaching
people.
And now went into, I went into abit of a tailspin and I was
like, what's happening for to mylife?
(04:47):
You know, I'm, I'm achieving mygoals, I'm having the success,
I'm making the money if peopleknow me.
I'm somewhat respected, youknow, around the community, but
I'm, I'm so unhappy and I hatemy life.
And, and I, you know, my biggestfear you saw was I would just
try to get to the next day, butmy biggest fear was that
somebody would find out that Idon't know what I'm doing and
I'm just winging it.
(05:08):
And that I'd be exposed asmassive fraud.
And, and.
I am like, I gotta fix, I gottafigure this thing out.
I gotta figure this business andlife thing out, or I'm gonna
literally end up dead.
I'm leaving some of the dramaticstuff out and and so I ended up
earning a master's in spiritualpsychology.
And that's nothing to do withreligion.
It's a very compassionate viewof psychology.
And when I, obviously I changedmy personal life, but when I
(05:30):
started applying that to my, tomy company and at one point I
owned three companies, that'swhen we really started to, to
thrive because we were on theInc 5,000 list of fastest
growing companies.
A couple years in a row, we wonthe number one best place to
work, and I won SocialEntrepreneur of the year.
that's externally.
But internally I was, I'mfinally, I was finally having
fun as a leader.
(05:51):
And it's because I shifted mymindset and I really understood
what made me tick.
And my employees tick and mycustomers tick.
And it was, it was, but from acompassionate, positive place.
And it was such a, Massivechange for me that after a bunch
of years, I, I divested myselfin my software companies.
Now what I do is I teachleadership mindset.
So companies like Uber,Microsoft, Salesforce, bring me
(06:15):
in Stanford, bring me into workwith a startup ecosystem that's
I teach.
And I wanted'em to get aneuroscience certificate, so
thanks for letting me that,that's the background.
I figured everybody's good toknow, a little of the context,
but we'll get into theleadership stuff.
But that's how I got in cuz Iscrewed everything up.
Eastar man.
I was messing everything up.
So that's why I, I learned howto, to fix a little bit for
myself and other people.
Isar Meitis (06:35):
First of all, I, I'm, I'm really happy you were
able to go through that becausea lot of people don't.
A lot of people who are in thatspiral end up crashing to the
hard ground and, and never getup.
And so I'm glad you are and I'mglad you're teaching other
people to do this.
You said something that I'mgonna piggyback on.
You said you figured out whatmake you tick and what makes
other people tick.
And I think that's a keycomponent to seeing success is
(07:00):
understanding how our internal.
Spirit head mindset works.
How do you do that?
Like how do, how can peoplefigure out what makes them tick?
And I think, I think it's reallyinteresting because even people
who have good or preservationand can figure what makes other
people tick, it's a lot harderto figure out what makes you
(07:23):
tick.
So what's the process that youteach people to do in order to
do that?
I assume very first step.
Michael Anderson (07:29):
Yeah.
And, and, and it's interestingcause I do use that phrase and
now that you brought it up,it's, it's interesting to
reflect on, and I do somewhatteach what makes me and other
people tick.
But the, the, the key thing cuzif I, I have what's called the
foundational rule of leadershipand that is your leadership is a
reflection of your relationshipwith yourself.
(07:52):
Okay.
And we, and, and you know,there's so many phrases we hear
thrown around on leadership likeauthenticity and vulnerability,
which it's important for aleader to be authentic and
vulnerable, but you can't tell aleader to be more authentic and
vulnerable.
It's like, you can't tellsomebody to be more handsome or
more funny or more likely
Isar Meitis (08:15):
Yeah.
Well, you can, it usuallydoesn't work though.
Yeah,
Michael Anderson (08:18):
you can like, it's like go be more funny.
you know, it's like, so youcan't, if somebody being
authentic and vulnerable andbeing, you know, a, a leader
that people respect, that peoplefollow is, is a result of doing
certain things.
In concept and, and we can talkin more detail on this.
For me, exa for example, Irealized that back then one of
(08:39):
my best, my biggest prob, mybiggest learning was that I was
spending so much time cuz I wasso insecure.
And then the more pressure, thatbrought up more insecurities
that I was spending so much timetrying to be somebody that I
thought other people wanted meto.
be So that I would be acceptedso that I would be liked, so
(09:00):
that I would be respected.
And sometimes that activelyactually ended up looking me
being a jerk.
But anyway, it's it's, it's so,you know, it's, it's, it's
illogical sometimes.
but then as I went through thisprogram, and it took me a lo a
long time and it's, you know,it's a lifetime thing, but I
really understood who I was and,and I got to know, like, and
trust myself and that, andthat's important.
(09:21):
People talk about self-love andself-love is important, but it's
a bit of a deep.
It's a, it's a deep concept.
It takes a while to really getyour head around.
But you know, I got to know whoI was.
Know like, and trust.
I got to know who I was.
I got to like who I was, so Iwasn't afraid to bring it out.
It's like, Hey, I like who I amand then I got to trust myself.
And as a leader, that's where,you know, the trust is a
resilience, right?
(09:41):
Because if we.
Resilience is just a fact oftrusting ourself that we're
gonna be able to get throughthis.
liking yourself as charisma cuzwhen you like yourself, other
people like you, and thatdoesn't mean you're arrogant,
but that means you have thislightness about you and you can
laugh at yourself, for example.
You can, you can be humble inthat, in that confident way.
and then knowing myself.
That's where that authenticitycomes from because I show up
(10:02):
now, I know what my values are,what I stand for, and I'm not
afraid to stand for them.
And that's where thatauthenticity comes from.
So, and that's really what Iwork with leaders to do, is to
get into a more compassionate,stronger relationship with
themselves, because then theycan show up as them and be
strong in that power.
Isar Meitis (10:20):
I love everything you said, especially, you know,
the people talk a lot aboutknow, like, trust in getting
clients, right?
And you talk about this beforeyou get clients, do this
internally and, and you, youtook us back in like yourself,
like yourself.
You know yourself.
(10:41):
How you do that.
I can really understand who youare and.
Start that journey to knowingyourself and then liking
yourself and then trustingyourself.
what is, do you have like asystem, a process, a mindset
thing that you gotta do in orderto figure out, okay, who am I
really versus who am I trying tolook like, like you said,
Michael Anderson (11:03):
I, I absolutely do.
And then there's a lot therethat you, you shared and.
I have what's called the growthleadership path, and there's,
there's four steps.
Cause I, I teach what I callgrowth leadership because it's
all based on the leader growingas a person.
And as the leader grows, thenthey grow other people.
A and they turn into leaders,and then everybody grows and
(11:25):
your company grows.
So, but it's got four steps.
The first is when we'll gothrough these, we can go, th
it's, it's, it's interestingrelease and reset.
Because there's things thatpeople are doing that are
holding themselves back.
we have beliefs.
We have habits even where, whatgot us here being tactical.
Now we need to be strategic, sowe have to get rid of how we
used to be doing things.
(11:45):
And then it's rewire andreprogram, you know, so, How do
we build ourself back up withthat resilience and that
confidence and really knowingwho we are.
And then I work on leadingothers.
So you know, whether it's havingdifficult conversations, whether
it's inspiring, whether it'smotivating people.
And then the fourth one I teachis strategy and influence how to
become strategic.
Cuz a lot of people are like, Ineed to, becomes.
(12:08):
be more strategic.
My boss told me, or I need my,my, my management team to be
more strategic.
But they don't even really knowwhat that means.
They, and they have an idea, butit's not about having a
strategy, but it's about everyconversation they have, being
more strategic, having astrategy for a customer or a
project or their team.
So how do you do that?
How do you relate to a c e O ofa larger company or an investor?
(12:31):
So it's having those convers.
Isar Meitis (12:34):
Brilliant.
Let's break this down a leveldeeper.
So you said step one, releaseand reset.
Yes.
What does that mean?
How do I do that?
Michael Anderson (12:44):
So there's two, there's two things that we
normally need to release andreset.
One is, self limiting beliefsand those, these are things that
we picked up by where we wereborn, how our parents raised us.
I say that.
Leadership is one of the mostunintuitive things that we'll
ever do because if you thinkabout it, when you're born and
(13:04):
you're a child, you're afollower, you know your and, and
your parents are telling youwhat to do.
Then you get to school andpeople are telling you what to
do, and then you get touniversity, people are telling
you what to do, and then you getto your, your first job, people
are telling you what to do.
So, you know, from 0 to 30,99.999 of your, your, your, your
life has been as a follower Andso you've had almost no practice
(13:29):
leading and then all of a suddenyou have to lead and then you're
used to being so there, there'sa bit more to that, but you know
whether, you know, did, did yourparents model good leadership?
Did you have great leadershiprole models?
A lot of us, the answer is no.
So we're, we're, we get intothis place.
Where, and you know, we, weoften weren't taught to take
risks growing up.
We, we often weren't take,weren't empowered.
(13:51):
Part of that's the old schoolthing, and part of that's just
the way life is.
So we have all these things thatare holding us back.
But then also, you know, ifyou're like a good marketing
person, you're really good at,getting into the details and
being very analytical and then,And then all of a sudden you're
in a leadership and then youhave to communicate, you have to
empower, you have to motivate.
(14:12):
You have to inspire.
But then a problem comes up andthen what you wanna do is you
wanna be the superwoman orSuperman and jump back in and
fix everything.
Cuz that's how you used to get apat on the back and your
dopamine hit.
It's literally an addictionbeing tactical.
So you have to, you have tochange your habits of what
actually used to give you.
The atta boys or atta girls oratta persons.
(14:34):
You know what I mean?
So it's, you have to break thesehabits.
Isar Meitis (14:38):
I absolutely love it.
I want to touch on two pointsthat kind of triggered things in
my mind.
one when you talked about.
You know, you just give me alens to look at something I was
talking about for years, but I,I, I, I couldn't put exactly why
and a lot of people did that.
So I grew up in Israel andthere's a huge tech scene in
Israel and a lot of successfultech startups and a lot of
successful business people cameout of Israel.
(15:00):
And, and nobody exactly can sayexactly why.
And everybody says, well, it'sbecause of the military service.
I'm like, okay.
Yes.
It makes you grow up faster andyou have to be out there on your
own without your parents and,and face a real enemy.
And sometimes your life is athreat, which makes you grow up
faster.
I get it.
How does that make you a betterbusiness leader?
(15:20):
I don't know, but what you said,it's like, okay, it's the first
time people become commandersinitially in a lower level.
Okay.
So you're just.
Six people and then 20, and then50, and then whatever very
quickly in a very, very earlyage.
And for many people, it'sliterally a responsibility for
(15:41):
people's lives.
And it's not just the peoplethey command, it's the people.
They protect, right?
So if you fail to do this, theseother people on the other side
of the fence may do 1, 2, 3.
That will kill other people inTel Aviv.
So the level of responsibilityand leadership that you gotta
have in order to do this startsat a much younger age, then
(16:03):
probably anywhere else on theplanet.
And I never thought about itthrough this lens.
So I appreciate what you justsaid.
As far.
We don't experience that usuallyuntil later in life when we
become different levels ofmanagers in companies.
So that's one thing you saidthat I, that I really
appreciate.
Michael Anderson (16:18):
Well that's, that, that's really interesting
because the military does dosomething really well and they
do prepare people for leadershipreally well, cuz they, and and
you're right.
You gotta grow up really fastand take that maturity and that
re That's real.
That's a really interestingpoint.
I.
The other
Isar Meitis (16:32):
point that I, I'm, I'm about to launch a new
podcast.
This is probably the first timeI'm saying this to anybody that
well out in the open, right?
So the new podcast is gonna beabout AI in businesses, and so
can replace this podcast if youwant.
It's, it's, it's a sub path ofhow to grow businesses,
leveraging ai, because I thinkthat's where the world is going,
and I think literally it's gonnachange everything we know in the
(16:53):
next very near future.
But the interesting part of thatis what I see a lot of people
mistake is going back to whatyou just said.
They dive straight into thetactics.
Ooh, I've got this new widgetand it can do this and that, and
that can replace this thing thatI'm doing today.
I'm like, awesome.
But it's a business, it's acompany, it's a machine.
(17:13):
You can just change one cog andthings will change.
It's not like you gotta think,okay, strategically, how do I
change processes in thebusiness?
To now leverage these tools thatI have, does that change the
goals that I've set?
If the goals are the same, okay,so maybe I don't need these two
tools, even though they'rereally cool and really amazing.
(17:34):
So I think as, as people and asbusiness leaders, we have the
tendency to jump into thetactics because it's quick and
simple and we get immediateresults, but it doesn't
necessarily help the strategy ofthe business achieve the goals
better or faster.
And so I absolutely love thepoints you raise.
I think now I understand whatyou mean by release and reset.
(17:55):
Let's go to step two.
You said rewrite
Michael Anderson (17:58):
and reprogram.
Rewire and reprogram.
Rewire and reprogram.
Yes.
Yeah.
So that's giving people, the,the, the tools that they need to
really understand who they are.
And you know, there's a great.
Sometimes with my coachingclients, what we do is we do
what you might call adeclaration where they write
down who they are and it looks alittle different for everybody.
(18:20):
And, and people talk aboutvalues, their sometimes or their
vision.
This is like an accumulation of,of like, who are you?
And it's interesting, it's agreat question to ask anybody,
like when, when you ask, who areyou?
And I don't wanna hear you're afather or you're a C F O or
you're a mom.
You know what I mean?
Those are roles we play.
That's not who you are.
(18:40):
And you know, are youindependent?
Are you driven?
Are you com compassionate?
You know, what are you and, andhow does that all relate?
And that's really importantthing to figure out because
until you figure that out, it'shard to really stand in who you
are as a leader.
And it's a really beautifulthing.
You know, I work a lot onconfidence.
I help a lot of people withovercome imposter syndrome.
(19:01):
I, I help a lot of people reallystep into themselves.
You know, so many this stuffthat we talk, that people talk
about, like resilience and, andpresence, all that's really due
based on the, the relationshipwith ourselves.
And again, when we can reallytrust ourselves and like
ourselves, know ourselves,that's real.
That really takes care of a,that, that's really the root
(19:21):
solution to a lot of theseissues.
So it's really having thatperson get to know who they.
Isar Meitis (19:26):
I really like it.
I'm trying to understand thehow.
Michael Anderson (19:32):
Okay, so I'm gonna pull my book out.
I'm gonna pull my book out,leadership Mindset 2.0.
Give you a couple specifics sothat we can Yeah, because,
Isar Meitis (19:38):
because you said, okay, go write down who you are.
I'm like, oh my God, I gotta dothis.
But like how do I even getstarted?
Like what's, give, give me aframework to work with that I
can figure this out, because I'mlike, this is such a, it's, it's
a, it's an amazing question thatI've never asked myself.
Yes, I assume most peopledidn't, but I'm like, okay, how
do I approach, like, you know,I, in my head I have frameworks
(20:01):
for many different things.
I don't have a framework forthis.
Michael Anderson (20:04):
Well, the framework for, for coming up
with that, like declaration forexample.
I mean, it, it's iterative andit's a little different, but
it's, you know, you write downwho you think you are and then,
and then as a coach, I gothrough and we really test that.
Is that really you or who youwant to be?
Is that really your core?
Is that your d n a?
And some of it is, is dedeclaring who you are.
And some of it is, is a bitaspirational.
(20:25):
Like for example, like I'm.
You know, I'm compassionate.
Am I compassionate a hundredpercent of the time?
No, I'm 80% of the time, butit's so important to me to, to
really own that, that I declareit.
And so when you declare it, youmove closer to it.
you know, there's some, there'sa difference between honesty and
integrity.
Are you honest every singletime?
That means when you're.
(20:46):
Husband wears shoes you don'tlike, do you, do you tell them?
You know what I mean?
Is how, what, where does, whatdoes that honesty mean?
I mean, is that what you know, Itell my wife, if you ask me how
you look, I'm going, I'm gonnabe the person that is gonna tell
you the truth.
Cuz that's important to me.
That's how I live my life.
I'm not gonna give youvalidation all the time.
Yeah.
you know, I'm, I'm giving you anextreme example, but that, but
(21:07):
people were like, oh, I valuehonesty.
Okay.
You do.
How much, so it's easy to saythese things, but what does that
really mean?
And it's a great, interestingconversation to have.
I love
Isar Meitis (21:19):
it.
I, I always do this exercisewhen it comes to defining core
values for businesses.
And again, I've never thoughtabout it for myself, but I
always tell people at the end ofthe day, your core values are
measured at the extremescenarios, right?
If you have an extreme scenario,are you gonna stick to your core
value knowing that it's gonnadamage your.
(21:42):
Or are you gonna bend the corevalue and do the other thing?
Because it's gonna, it's notgonna damage your business.
That means it's not a corevalue.
So you're basically saying, dothe same thing for yourself.
Write down the, let's say youdon't have a coach, like you
write down the things you sayyou are.
(22:03):
Then come out with extremescenarios in which these things
are being challenged, becauseit's very easy to stand by the
things on the day-to-day.
But then something happens thatis not the day-to-day.
It's, it's a more extreme, I, I,I'll give a business example
because I don't have personalexamples, but you have a core
value that says people have tobe nice to each other in the
(22:23):
business, and your bestsalesperson is a freaking
asshole.
Do you keep him or do you firethe guy?
And he's in charge of 40% of thecompany's revenue.
So let him, let him him go.
Big fucking deal from a businessperspective, not letting him go
(22:45):
is a big fucking deal from acore value perspective.
And now you gotta decide.
And so think about these vescenarios about the traits and
the values and the things youthink you are, and then you know
if they're part of your core ornot, because that will give you
So, I, I love it.
I think it's a, I'm, I'm in myhead doing this with you right
(23:07):
now.
It's
Michael Anderson (23:07):
pH.
Yeah, yeah, I'm right with you.
And I think core val, to me,core values work a little better
for core values are moreapplicable to a business because
you can hire for them.
Like I'm sure you teach this,you can do this, all these other
stuff.
To be core values for a personcan get a little dry.
And that's why we do thedeclaration cuz it can be like
more, it can be a bitaspirational, it can be a bit
(23:28):
visiony.
Yep.
You know, so you put all thestuff you do separately.
It's, it's like an amalgamation.
It can be whatever you want too.
It's, yeah.
And yeah, it's normally about apage long and, and, you know,
you memorize it and I got itfrom a, a guy named Steve
Hardison.
He's, he is a, he is a coach.
He, he does this with some ofhis clients, but it's, it's a
great, it's a great thing foranybody to do, and it's, it's
(23:49):
just, it really can help with,yeah, just getting clear of who
you are and who, who you're,it's a, again, it's a bit
aspirational who you are and abit of who you're declaring
yourself to be.
Brilliant.
Isar Meitis (24:03):
I love this.
So we have two steps, right?
It was release and reset,rewrite and reprogram using the
things we talked about.
Then you.
Leading others beingconversational, motivational.
How do I make that transition?
How do I take what I've learned?
And now basically what you'resaying is, Apply what you've
learned about yourself in orderto help others.
(24:25):
Right.
That's what I'm understanding
Michael Anderson (24:27):
the lines.
Yeah.
The, the first two steps are allinternal to the leader.
The la the second two areexternal.
and, and, and, you know, some ofthat is about having a purpose
and a, and a vision and values.
There's a little bit in there.
I'm, I'm talking about my bookLeadership Mindset 2.0, which
is, which is not a fluffy book.
It's very much an instructionbook on how do this stuff.
Awesome.
and and so, you know, it's alittle bit about there, there is
(24:49):
some about those type of things,but it's about like having
difficult conversations is a bigone.
You know, how do you do that?
Because.
I think it's pretty natural thatwe, we, not a lot of people like
conflict or like having thosethings, but I have a framework
about how to have a difficultconversation.
we'll go through it.
Cause I know you're, you esorry, you like to be real
Isar Meitis (25:08):
practical.
I, I would've asked you if youwouldn't So, go ahead.
Michael Anderson (25:12):
I'm learning mate.
I'm learning So what I do is I,I start with a pre-frame.
so what that means is if youhave a, an employee that's,
coming in, late And you'refrustrated, you probably are
gonna be like, I wanna have ameeting or a conversation
because you're coming in late.
So they're gonna go on thedefensive.
But if, you know this employeewants to become a manager, you
(25:34):
can say, Hey, I wanna, can weset up a meeting?
Cuz I, I really wanna supportyou into your move into a
management.
And it's, it's, it's so small,but the preframe, any
conversation can be, you know,instead of, Hey, hey, I'd like
you to be a guest on my podcast.
Hey, I got a podcast.
That would really raise yourprofile.
You know, it's, it's always, Imean, you're a marketing guy.
(25:56):
Isar You, know this, but it,it's, but it's applying these,
but it, you're applying'em forthe benefit because of, of both
of you.
Because anytime that you have a,somebody in.
The defensive mode, it's notgonna be a productive, or it's
very hard to have a productiveconversation cuz they're
defending themselves.
So anytime you can preframe inthe, in their benefit, the more
I think about it, the more we'retaking marketing and putting it
(26:18):
into this.
so you, you preframe theconversation and, and then, and
then once you start the, the,the conversation, you can do a
couple different things.
You can reframe things andreframe.
there's a whole bunch ofpsychology on, You probably know
this guy, Victor Frankl.
No, I don't.
Oh, he was an Austrian Jew in,world War ii, and he was a
(26:41):
psychiatrist and he went intoAuschwitz, you know, the Nazis
capture and went into Auschwitzand he said, I'm going to
amazing man.
Amazing man.
He says, I'm going to survivethis.
And in doing, I'm going to learnthings and write a book and help
humanity.
And he had that purpose.
And, you know, all his familydied.
(27:02):
It's crazy.
And he got out of it and he, he,he talked about how you can take
away everything from a personexcept for their right to
choose.
Their right to choose how theythink.
How they feel.
And it's like he was in theworst, one of the hu worst thing
for humans ever.
But he'd be like, ah, that's a,that guard just so showed some
humanity or this, this familyjust gave their last piece of
(27:24):
bread to this orphan.
So that, that's beauty.
He would see beauty in thishorrid place.
Yeah.
Because he realized they couldnever take that away from him.
And he wrote a book called Man'sSearch for Meaning, which is one
of the.
Library of Congress says it'sone of the best 10 books ever
written up there with the Quranand the Bible and everything
else.
So, yeah.
so we're pretty far high upthere.
Yeah, it's high up there.
(27:45):
Anyway, sorry, tangent.
He, he talk, talk.
That's reframing.
If Victor re reframe being in aconcentration camp, we can
reframe.
Stuff in a conversation with.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's like, you know, justtaking things and, and really
finding the lesson and, andchanging the frame, changing how
you look at things.
Hey, we lost this customer.
Why do we lose that customer?
Let's never lose a customer likethat again.
(28:06):
Instead of, it's a problem, howcan we learn from it?
That's a reframe.
So, so we have the preframe, wehave the reframe.
And then we, and, and, and the,you know, the employee might
say, oh, I, oh man, people arelosing respect for me cuz I've
been late.
When you tell'em that and you'resay, well, they already respect
you and you're, you've beenlate.
But once you start being ontime, then, then you're gonna
gain more respect.
(28:27):
So this is just Oh, oh, okay.
And you keep'em in really highspirits.
Right.
And then you can have a, a, arealign, which if it goes, if
they start going on a tangent,you can say, hold on a second.
The goal of this is to, yourealign to the preframe so you,
you get'em back to how you wereframing it in the first place.
Cuz you, you always want to keepit positive and forward moving.
(28:47):
And if it gets on a bad tangent,then you realign to your
preframe, which gets everybodyon the right thing again.
And then at the end if you, youknow, assume you have a good
resolution, then you recap.
You're gonna start being on timebecause we had this meeting
because we wanted to make sureyou are gonna get to management.
Did we accomplish that?
They're like, yeah, weaccomplished that.
So you're just ending it.
(29:07):
You're, you're, you are, you're,they're agreeing with you that
you a, achieved your, your.
very positive goal in the firstplace.
So that's, hope.
I hope I'm not going on too muchEssar, I'm just No,
Isar Meitis (29:17):
no, no.
This is, this is awesome.
I, I wanna touch on one pointbecause I, I, again, it, it
connects in my head to differentthings that are similar, going
back to my marketing background,but there's, you know, play
bigger category design.
Again, one of the greatestmarketing books may be ever
written, not any book, butmarketing books, or, or business
books.
I would say it's not exactlymarketing.
And in there they, they talkabout to sell something, you
(29:41):
need to take people they call,they call them tus, which is a
combination of from, and two,you need to show the people what
is the outcome that they desire,that following the process will
get them to, which is reallywhat you're selling.
And they give a lot of examples.
You know, the example I alwayslike to use, which is totally
unrelated to business.
(30:01):
That's why I like to use it.
If you're selling a grill.
You can sell, you know, it hasthis kind of heat and the knobs
are really easy to use, and thething is really easy to clean
and, okay, it's a, it's a grill.
You know, it's not exciting.
But if you're selling a barbecueparty with five year best
buddies watching football and alarge screen TV with piers in
(30:22):
the hand standing around thegrill, this is what you're
selling.
You're selling.
That emotional outcome of thething that will be, if you
follow the process, which isexactly what you said, I'm.
Trying to get you to, I, I amtrying to get you to come on
time, but what I'm selling youis that management leadership
(30:43):
position with you in charge ofpeople that will respect you
more, which is what you reallydesire.
And, and I love that way offraming things.
It's so, so, so smart.
And if you can take, it's a,it's a great way to diffuse any
problematic situation, is totalk about the positive outcome
after the change instead offocusing on the current problem.
(31:04):
So, Great, great stuff, So nowwe talked about leading others
difficult conversations withothers.
What other external things doyou have in that process?
Michael Anderson (31:18):
So, in leading others or in strategy and
influence?
either, well, strategy andinfluence.
I'd like to talk about becausethat's often, I've, I've never
really seen it taught before.
And moving from tactical tostrategic is one shift that
every leader.
You know, outside of a teamleader has to really make, and
there's a couple things aboutit.
You know, the one thing I I tellpeople is, is if they're like, I
(31:39):
wanna be more strategic.
And I'm like, well, how manyhours a a week do you devote to
strategic thinking?
And they just look at me likeI'm crazy.
And, I'm like strategicthinking, you know?
And, and, and I don't justmeaning have the strategy for
the overall business.
That's actually easy.
Normally you go probably.
Essar, you probably do with thiswith companies.
You go away something withsomebody like Essar for like two
(31:59):
days and you pop out with thecompany's strategy, right?
That's, that's freaking easy.
Normally, you know what thestrategy is.
This is having a strategy forthat, that problem employee, for
that really big prospect foryour team, for that next
marketing thing there.
Everything should have a bit ofa strategic, thought around it.
but what strategic thinking is,is, is a reflective, mindful
process.
(32:19):
So, To be strategic, you needto, I tell people that the best
thing you could ever do is acouple of days a week, depending
on how high a level cause thehigher level you are.
And the more, the more strategicyou need to be, the more you
need to do this is to take acouple out, like your first hour
of your day, take that and gostart as on a 20 minute walk
(32:40):
without your phone.
And just walk and, and theneither have an idea of, I need
a, I need to figure out thisproblem, or just go with a blank
mind.
And your mind will just processthings.
Because I look at leader'scalendars and it's, it's, it's.
It's book back to back meetings.
I'm like, how do you everprocess this information?
(33:01):
You need to process information.
And you do that subconsciouslywith your mind just doing it.
And so there's something aboutwalking in nature that, and you
don't even need to think, it'lljust, your brain will think on
its own.
And then after about 10 or 15minutes, your the answer will
come to you.
And then you go back and for thenext 40 minutes, you just only
work on that.
Don't answer your emails, don't,you know, work on that proposal,
(33:24):
work on that new product design,work on that marketing campaign,
and then do the rest of yourday.
You do that a couple mornings aweek and you're, you're a golden
and you know, you may.
If you ever have a, a really bigproblem, go for a two or three
hour walk in the woods withoutyour dog, without a notepad,
without your phone.
And I guarantee after an hourand a half, two hours, you'll,
(33:44):
you'll be like, oh, I, you'llsee it differently.
And that solves any problem I'veever had.
That's been a solution.
Isar Meitis (33:53):
Again.
Great, great, great stuff.
Same guy by the way.
So interesting.
thing, now we're back toChristopher Lockhead and play
bigger.
But, Christopher Lockhead talksabout, he always says that
thinking about thinking is themost important kind of thinking,
which is basically the samething, right?
He's like, because most of thetime you think about a specific
thing.
(34:14):
You're just worried about thislittle problem and you don't
give yourself time to go a layerdeeper, release yourself from
the day-to-day and the smallthings, and think about how do I
think about this problem andrestructure the way you approach
things when you buried in them.
Which in most cases allows youto actually, like you're saying,
(34:35):
come up with a strategy, see adifferent solution, and then you
can actually go and implementit.
And, and I agree with you thatone of the most important thing,
and now we're going the smalldifference with be the small
differences between leadershipand management, but managing
your schedule.
Is a very important time thatallows you to be a good leader,
(34:55):
because otherwise, like you'resaying, you're, you're buried in
the tactics and the day-to-dayin the meetings and the, and and
the processes versus leavingsome space by definition that
nobody can touch because that'swhat allows you to process, be
strategic and work on otherthings.
Amazing stuff.
This is really, really great,Michael.
(35:16):
If people, I mean, you and I cando this probably for the next
three hours and still keep onhaving fun.
but I, I wanna be respectful ofyour time.
If people wanna follow you,learn more about you, read your
stuff, listen to you, connectwith you, work with you, what's
the best
Michael Anderson (35:29):
way to do that?
Sure.
So my name's Michael Anderson,but I, I add the, the letter R
in front of my name cuz my firstname's actually Robert.
And nobody can Google MichaelAnderson and find me cuz there's
too many Michael Anderson.
So I go by r Michael Anderson, rjust remember Robert Michael
Anderson, r Michael Anderson.
and the book is LeadershipMindset 2.0, if anybody's
interested in, in it.
(35:50):
And and I'll tell you what, ifyou buy the book and hit me up
on LinkedIn or something, I'llgive you a couple special cool.
I get a couple templates aboutdelegation, imposter syndrome,
all these other cool littlethings.
So if you, if you heard me here,buy the, buy the book and hit me
up on LinkedIn.
Said I, I saw, I heard you onEsau's, podcast.
I'll give you a couple littlecool, cool things on there.
Isar Meitis (36:11):
Awesome.
Michael or Robert, thank you
Michael Anderson (36:14):
so much.
R r r Michael.
No, no, no.
Thank you.
Thank you so much.
Yes, sir.
Great talking to you.
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Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
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If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.