May 1, 2023 • 34 mins
Are you tired of blending in with the competition? Want to know how to stand out and succeed in a commoditized industry?
In this episode, we dive deep into the world of innovation and marketing with Peter Mann, Founder and CEO at Oransi, who shares his unique approach to thriving in a crowded market. Discover the secrets to connecting with customers on an emotional level, outsmarting your competition, and disrupting a commoditized industry.
🎯 Topics We Discussed:
🚀 The importance of understanding customer needs and segmentation
🧠 Thinking outside the box and exploring unconventional strategies
💡 Connecting with customers on an emotional level and creating word of mouth through third parties
🌟 Leveraging influential figures in your industry for marketing and endorsement
🌊 Embracing continuous improvement and the realities of product development
👤 About Peter Mann:
Peter is an innovative entrepreneur, Founder and CEO at Oransi, with a passion for disrupting commoditized industries. He has successfully navigated the challenges of launching and growing a business in a competitive market, and he's here to share his wealth of knowledge with you. Connect with Peter on LinkedIn.
Hi, It's Isar the host of the Business Growth Accelerator Podcast
I am passionate about growing businesses and helping CEOs, business leaders, and entrepreneurs become more successful. I am also passionate about relationship building, community creation for businesses, and value creation through content.
I would love it if you connect with me on LinkedIn. Drop me a DM, and LMK you listened to the podcast, what you think and what topics you would like me to cover 🙏
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Isar Meitis (00:00):
hello, and welcome to the Business Growth
Accelerator.
This is Isar Mattis, your host,and I have a very special guest
and topic for you today.
Technology has been advancing alot and the global economy
enables.
Basically anybody who wants tofind cheap flavor services and
product, manufacturing overseas,which makes almost anything you
(00:21):
can think of become a commodityeither very quickly or
eventually.
So if you are in a businesstoday, whether you are selling
products or services, There's avery, very high likelihood
you're in a somewhatcommoditized market, and if
you're not, it probably will be.
Especially now with the impactsof the incredible AI
capabilities that are availableto basically everyone today.
(00:41):
When before it was available, toGoogle and Amazon, The problem
when you're in a commoditizedmarket is figuring out how do
you differentiate yourself?
How do you rise above the noise?
How do you get more market shareand connect and have more
customers for a longer period oftime compared to your
competition?
And sometimes you have to dothings that are very, quote
(01:03):
unquote trivial, but you need toknow what they are.
And sometimes it soundscounterintuitive like reshoring
manufacturing from cheap placeslike China back to the us which
like, okay, how does that makeany sense?
Everything's gonna be moreexpensive.
These are exactly the topicswe're gonna discuss today, which
I find fascinating and I thinkyou will find it fascinating as
(01:23):
well.
And we're gonna have thatconversation with Peter Mann.
Peter is a successfulentrepreneurhe already started
and sold one company.
He's currently the c e o and thefounder of Orci, and he's
revolutionizing a highlycommoditized industry of home
and office air purifiers.
(01:44):
And he's an expert on how todifferentiate yourself in these
kind of scenarios.
And again, since I think this isnow a global problem, I'm really
excited to have as a guesttoday,Before we jump into
(02:56):
today's episode, there'ssomething I want to share with
you about two weeks ago, I'velaunched another podcast.
The podcast is called LeveragingAI And if you like this podcast,
you're gonna love leveraging AIbecause it's a very similar
approach.
I interview really smart peoplefrom the AI world practitioners
and experts who share how toleverage AI in order to grow
(03:17):
your business and advance yourcareer.
So pull up your phone right now,whatever platform you are using
in order to listen to thispodcast.
Search for leveraging ai, checkit out.
I think you'll find itfascinating.
There's already nine episodes inthere, including a really
fascinating interview withChatGPT as the guest.
It's unique and different andfun and interesting, and we talk
(03:39):
about the impact of AItechnology on businesses and
society as a whole.
So look for leveraging ai.
And if you enjoy it, subscribeto it and also write me a note
on LinkedIn and let me know whatyou think.
And now to the episode withPeter Mann.
peter, welcome to the
Peter Mann (03:56):
Business Growth Accelerator.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Excited to be here.
Peter.
Isar Meitis (04:00):
Let's start with when did it hit you?
And I dunno if it was day one orsomewhere in your management
within that industry that youunderstood that, oh my God, like
what I do?
There's so many companies whocan do the same exact thing.
They can manufacture it in thesame exact factories in China
and make basically any claimsthey want on it to say that it's
(04:24):
betters one way or another.
When did it hit you, and whatwere your mindset or your
thoughts as that thought evolved
Peter Mann (04:31):
in your head?
Yeah, I would say, our category.
Before Covid, it really wasn'tthat crowded of a space and
there was not a lot of brands,but when Covid hit the air Pur
farm market just exploded andjust dozens and dozens of brands
entered the space to where itbecame oversaturated.
And you get to a point wherethere's really marginal
(04:54):
differentiation between productsif you're calling a spade, it's,
and being truthful withyourself.
It's what it is.
And, it's interesting now, isthat, we're, really on the other
side of Covid.
The market is back closer towhere it was pre covid, but now
we just have so many competitorsand it's, there's so much noise.
And the reality is the categoryhas really become a commodity if
(05:18):
we're being honest withourselves.
And it's like how do you competein that space?
Because it really just, in amatter of two or three years,
this whole industry market havejust turned up, turned upside.
And it's a challenge, but it's,it's also an opportunity, to see
enough.
Yeah.
Isar Meitis (05:33):
I think what you're describing is like the perfect
worse storm right there, therewas a huge demand, which led to
huge growth in supply.
Yeah.
And then the demand died backdown, but you still have all the
suppliers who got into thespace, or at least most of them.
So what are the things that youreally started doing to change
(05:54):
the situation, to say, okay, howdo I take my business and make
it something different that willstand out?
Yeah, it's two, two things.
At high level, it's, it's,lowering cost, because it's in a
commoditized world.
if your costs aren't in linewith where they need to be,
you're gonna go outta businessand you have to connect with the
customer.
and, stand out.
(06:15):
Nike makes shoes in the samefactory as other brands that,
but they have such a strongbrand and such a strong
connection and, and they'veleveraged that in a very
commoditized, industry.
And so we're having to do thesame thing.
And, in reshoring manufacturing,we've put so much development
into our product that we'vefigured out how to take cost out
(06:36):
and have a better story.
And so that's what I'm reallyexcited about.
Peter Mann (06:41):
There's, so
Isar Meitis (06:42):
I find this fascinating on so many different
levels and we'll start divinginto them one by one.
I think I wanna start withreally what something you told
me, which I agree with you ahundred percent when we did the
pre-call for this, which isunderstanding what the clients
are actually looking for.
Because that's where it allstarts, right?
You, when you wannadifferentiate, you better
(07:02):
differentiate in a way thatactually people would care about
because they could say, oh, weare gonna make our products pink
and really big.
That's gonna be different, butmaybe it's not gonna work to
your benefit.
How do you figure it out?
How do you really understand,like truly understand what will
make a difference for the clientwho're
Peter Mann (07:21):
trying to serve?
Yeah, so the way.
we're wired or oriented is we'revery data driven and we just let
the numbers do the talking.
it's, we could think something,but if the data in the, in the
market intelligence tells yousomething different, you really
can't ignore that.
And we look at what's selling inthe marketplace, what are those
features?
What are the price points?
What, why is someone buyingthis?
(07:43):
and we could have an opinion onthat product, but it really
doesn't matter if that's really.
what the customers want.
And there's tools.
I don't know.
I don't have any, we use JungleScout and there's a number of
other tools.
So you can go into Amazon andreally get pretty, pretty
accurate, sales data on anyproduct.
and Amazon's such a hugemarketplace.
(08:05):
it's a good.
it's a good way to get a sensefor what's selling and what's
not selling and what the pricepoints are and what the features
are.
and that's just an initial datapoint.
And then two is we have, a teamof customer service folks that
are talking with customers everyday and, getting the pulse of
the customer and, feeding thatback to us.
And so it's the humaninteractions it.
(08:26):
it's raw data.
It's looking at reviews and whatpeople are saying, and it's not,
the five star reviews.
It's what are the three or fourstar reviews?
What are they critical of?
And is there an opportunity todo something about that?
Isar Meitis (08:40):
I love that.
So if I put that into two bigbuckets, one is.
Quantitative data, which you'recollecting both from yourself
and from your competitionthrough technology tools.
Which then you can aggregate andanalyze in different ways.
And the other thing is reallyqualitative, human relation kind
(09:01):
of data.
Whether it's directly talking toyour customers or potential
customers, as well as looking atwhat people writing in reviews
that we don't like this or thisis not working, or this is why,
we returned it or whatever.
I think this is brilliant.
I wanna add, again, going backto the AI tools that are out
there today.
One of the biggest problemsuntil very recently with
(09:21):
qualitative data was how do youmake sense of it?
Like you can collect qualitativedata, but it's just a lot of raw
data that was impossible to dounless you had a few people
literally reading messages andtrying to analyze.
And now with AI tools, There areincredible tools out there that
you can just plug into GoogleSheets that can give you the
sentiment of different thingsand put them into categories and
(09:43):
buckets and score them based onwhatever definitions you define
with zero cost.
And so our ability to analyzelarge numbers of qualitative
data has became incredible andaccessible that they were not
before.
Okay, so now you have this.
(10:04):
What did you do then?
Okay, now you understand whatthe clients are looking for as
quote unquote differentiators orwhat they care about.
One of the things you alreadysaid, they want a good price.
Yeah.
which I assume became veryobvious from looking at the
data.
What other things you found thatmaybe surprised you or things
that you learned that you shouldfocus on that you did not know
(10:26):
before?
Looking at the data.
Peter Mann (10:28):
Yeah, like for air purifiers, I would say they care
about, just things like noiselevel and the look at the look
and feel of the product, howsimple it is to use, just the
functionality.
It really depends upon justdifferent profiles of customers.
And that's another thing youlook at, like if you're senior
citizen and you maybe, you wantsomething that's light simple to
(10:49):
use.
You don't wanna mess with apps,you just wanna just set it and
forget it and be done with it.
And we also sell the businessesand you're a dentist office.
You may not have floor space andyou need to have a way of like,
where can I put this so it, itdoes the job, but doesn't take
up my precious floor space.
It's like there's very little ofit.
And so it's really looking atjust demographics and
(11:12):
psychographics and profiles forcustomers and really understand
who's buying from you.
And then, market the product ina way that connects with that
customer and then buildfeatures, into a product or even
de feature a product.
If that's what it takes to getdown to the right cost.
And that's more of the directionwe've gone is really doing
everything we can intoeverything goes into the
(11:33):
performance of the product.
And anything that doesn't driveperformance, we're not even
gonna spend a penny on becausewe need, the cost is so
Isar Meitis (11:41):
critical.
Okay, so again, if I broaden thedefinitions that you're saying,
a, categorize your clients intothe different buckets that you
think you can compete in thosespecific markets.
Understand their very specificneeds and build your products
aligned to those needs.
And like you're saying, in manycases, and in the software
industry, it's way more commonthan manufacturing products.
(12:03):
You create a lot of bells andwhistles because it's a lot
easier and cheaper than when youhave to manufacture.
That your clients may don't evencare about.
Just your product team thoughtit's a good idea, or somebody in
the business thought it shouldbe a part of the plan or
whatever, and then it doesn'treally serve.
The real needs of the realclients.
It costs you more money todevelop, maintain service, and
(12:23):
so on.
And so the combination of theunderstanding of the specific
needs and doing focusing onthose core things in your
products is your key to success.
I wanna touch on the reassuringaspect of it, because I find
this very interesting.
On one hand you're saying, Iwant to cut cost On the other
thing you're saying, oh, I'mgonna fat manufacture in here in
(12:44):
the US where rent cost me.
A thousand x more it is than afactory in China.
Labor cost me a thousand x morethan factory in China.
Supply of goods probably stillmore expensive than getting it
in China because they'reprobably buying much bigger
quantities.
So how are you able to reshoremanufacturing?
Wow.
(13:05):
Driving the
Peter Mann (13:06):
cost down.
Yeah, so it's, what'sinteresting is we bought a large
manufacturing facility.
It's, we have 156,000 squarefeet.
Wow.
And we're, we, right now, we'reunlike 32 people, so we're not
utilizing a lot of this space.
And so with all our excesscapacity we're, offering three
pl warehousing fulfillmentservices, in, in just doing
(13:29):
that, it, it pays for our.
And so it's okay, so we, it'snot free, but doesn't really
cost us anything and we'rebuilding an asset, which is
pretty exciting.
Isar Meitis (13:39):
And then, and it's an asset you can depreciate.
So now on the books, it lookslike there's a lot of other
benefits to doing that.
Peter Mann (13:45):
Yeah.
And so that works out reallywell cuz you know, there's a, in
general, a shortage of warehousespace, at least in, we're in
Virginia in our part of theworld.
and so it's working out reallywell.
We're getting people all thetime, looking to, for us to
store product for them or dofulfillment.
and There's that, we've alsoreally put a focus on like, how
do we design the products?
(14:06):
How do we take cost out, and howdo we manufacture it here?
And we've figured out that laboris really the variable to cost.
if you buy a component or if youbuy resin or plastics or.
it doesn't cost.
the cost is pretty similar hereversus in China, it's the labor
is the difference.
And, the way that the Chinesemake physical products, at least
(14:27):
within our category, is theywanna spend as little as
possible upfront in the toolingand the development.
And so they have a lot of simpleparts that requires 30, 40, 50
people on an assembly line toput together.
And you can't take all thoseparts and make it here and
expect to be cost competitivewith a Chinese factory, you have
(14:49):
to find a different way.
And so ours is just simplytaking labor out by reducing the
part count and making itassembled just so much more
simply.
And that's why it's taken us twoplus years to really get to the
point of getting the product,fully developed and ready to
launch is just working all thosedetails out because it is a lot
(15:10):
more upfront expense, but then,longer term your variable costs
are lower.
If you can take something that'sa hundred parts and make it 35
parts it's you've just takenlabor out and can be a lot more
efficient.
And so we're also moving from.
If you source from China, you'rebuying finished goods and you
have to pay for the product, youhave to ship it over here.
(15:30):
There's all that, cost andinventory, whereas we're just
buying, raw materials, which aremuch lower cost, and you can do
more just in time delivery, soyou get weekly shipments and
whatnot.
And so it's like your capital isactually a lot less in an
ongoing basis.
And so that's really a point ofdifferentiation for us.
(15:51):
We can be a lot more flexibleand not be a bank or have to
incur, inventory costs and 90day lead times and, all the
things that go on with, sourcingfrom China.
So I think that's really gonnabe a competitive advantage for.
Isar Meitis (16:06):
I think it's brilliant.
I wanna touch on a few aspectshere again, on a broader sense
from the example you gave.
First of all, there's a companyhere in Florida, you and I
talked about that, that justlaunched a 3D printed rocket to
space and they 3D printed 90something percent of the parts
of the rocket.
And their biggest savings isexactly because of what you
(16:28):
said.
They're full launch, like thefull operation of that one
launch cost them$12 million,which in space launch numbers is
practically free.
And so the biggestdifferentiator is the number of
parts they have.
They have less than 1% partsthan any other space create like
(16:48):
rocket manufacturing company.
And that saves a huge amount oftooling and then space and then
labor, and then testing and thenquality control that everything
is assembled to get, like, allof these things go away and
you've basically done the samething into, in a different
industry.
And I think the interestingthing about reassuring that
(17:10):
you're bringing as a veryinteresting idea is thinking out
of the box.
Because, and it's the sameeverywhere you look at a
software company, most softwarecompanies work the same way with
the same tools, with the sameinfrastructure, with the same
cloud services, with a, and ifyou're saying, okay, do I need
to do everything like everybodyelse is doing just because
that's the way everybody else isdoing it?
And the answer sometimes is yes.
Sometimes you don't have a.
(17:31):
But sometimes you may takesomething that is, this is the
common way things are done, anddo it completely differently and
be able to, like you're saying,a, be more innovative and
provide better solutions for myspecific target clients.
But b, do it much cheaper, muchshorter, lead times which keeps
happy customers and so on.
(17:52):
I think it's absolutelybrilliant.
How do you use.
These two things that we talkedabout, meaning your
understanding of the client'sneeds together with the fact
that you're building stuff nowin the us in your marketing and
the way you sell
Peter Mann (18:11):
the product.
Yeah.
so part of marketing I think isbuilding marketing into the
product.
That's like a Seth Godin, it hasa whole book I think called,
this is Marketing which I wouldrecommend, anyone that debt
markets a product, get it.
It's what I've learned is if youhave an average met too product,
you're gonna spend so much inadvertising, to sell that.
(18:34):
Whereas if you can generate wordof mouth, it's, I don't know,
they say 10 times more effectivethan any other form of
advertising.
And it's Build marketing to yourproduct, make it remarkable that
make people, or let people talkabout it and do the marketing
for you.
And so that's, and it takes alot of thought to get to that.
And it's a mind shift versusjust, having a, if you have an
(18:55):
engineering focus where it'swe're just gonna build the best
product out there, It has toconnect with the customer and
you have to build it.
So somebody, like the AI stuffwe were talking about, it's that
thing just feeds itself, right?
Because it's so cool and it'snew and who knows what you can
do with it next.
And people are, I've, some ofthem most popular posts on
LinkedIn are like, oh, did youknow you could, this is how you
(19:16):
use the open AI and this is howyou ask a question.
Or this is you don't use it likeGoogle actually like framed the
situation and then people talkabout that, and for me it's also
the psychology of it is why dopeople talk about things and,
how do things spread?
And it's, there's like apsychology aspect to it as well.
And I think to me, that's justhuman behavior is fascinating.
(19:39):
And so I think it goes back tothat and marketing is really, my
view just connecting with thecustomer and using their
language and in, in a way that,gets them excited emotionally to
where they'll not just buy it,but talk about it.
Isar Meitis (19:55):
So let's dive to the how of what you just said,
because I agree with you ahundred percent.
If people will share thatthey're using your product and
that they're happy with itbecause you built an awesome
product.
Then you had an amazing examplewith Dr.
Fosse, using your stuff, andI'll let you yeah.
Talk about this, but how do youget people to talk about your
product?
A and again, especially you'rethe perfect example, right?
(20:16):
Because if I'm selling a coolwidget or a fun car or a right
exciting adventure thatobviously people are gonna talk
about, but you're selling an airpur fire, right?
So how do you get, what steps doyou take?
What measures do you put inplace in order to get your
customers to actually share thatthey're enjoying this and this
(20:37):
has changed their lives one
Peter Mann (20:38):
way or another?
Yeah, I mean it's, I don't know,marketing is a bit frustrating
too, like accounting peoplebecause it's like an art and a
science and it's not just allscience and, you can see in your
metrics in terms of, basicreturn on ads spend or, there's
different metrics you can see,you can look at.
Google search trends and seewhat you know.
(20:59):
Is your brand being searchedmore than it has been?
Is it growing?
And, there's some qualitativemeasures you could, you can take
to get the pulse on where yourbrand is.
You can see sales.
I think sales is the ultimateindicator.
You can look at, on Amazon howyou're selling versus your
competition.
And but how do you get there?
Is that's kind that's the trick.
(21:21):
It's really understanding yourproduct, your category, your
customer.
I don't know of a specificformula that you go off of, but
I think about also, why dopeople buy things And, it's
often status or affiliation,right?
And like with what we're doingis, people buy, I'll just say
Dyson because Dyson's reallystrong brand, and it's oh, I'm
(21:42):
cool.
I have a Dyson, or I have aTesla, because it's the first
big brand of electric cars.
And, you can start questioningthem a little bit, but it, it's
not, it's more of a emotionaldecision.
That someone that buys that.
So I think the question is, howdo you make it emotional for
someone?
Which is a lot to unpack, Ithink, in that question.
(22:05):
And it's the story.
People connect on stories.
People I think wanna buy frompeople that they like or that
they associate with, or thatshare their interests and.
I think it's all about makingconnections and being a human
being to, to other folks.
Isar Meitis (22:24):
Yeah.
And your story started likethat, right?
That's why you started thebusiness.
Peter Mann (22:28):
Yeah, I started cuz my son was asthmatic and was
really looking for a healthy wayto help with his condition,
which was to me prettytraumatic.
And so it kind of, you know,left a mark on me to help him as
well as anyone else in thatcondition.
Isar Meitis (22:44):
Yeah, I think I, I think at the end of the day,
going back to what you saidabout emotions and selling
through emotion, It's there's areally famous article, I don't
remember who wrote it, but hetalks about different ads and
how they connect with people.
And he shows different ads forgrills, which is again, it's a
commodity.
I can buy a grill from anybody,and some companies are selling
(23:05):
the grill or selling the$150discount.
They're giving this whateverseason it is and so on.
And some companies sell thebarbecue party.
They're not trying to sell thegrill.
They're saying, look at how coolyou're going to be with your
buddies.
Yeah.
With beers in their hands andhanging out by the pool and
watching the football game.
(23:26):
And that's what people reallyconnect with.
And you are doing the samething.
You're basically saying, I'm notselling you this.
Really cool box with fancylights in an olive button.
I'm selling you a better qualityof life.
I'm selling you and I'm sure Idunno if you're doing this yet,
but I assume you're using themade in the USA part of this as
well,
Peter Mann (23:45):
right?
Yeah.
And I think it goes back to evenlike Steve Jobs, you know, when
he came out with the Mac, Idon't know if you've seen the
videos from, I think theeighties.
It's like people don't buy offof speeds and feeds like that
doesn't get specifications thatit's like the developer of the
product may get super excitedabout some aspect of it, but I
think that's a trap and itdoesn't connect emotionally.
(24:07):
And even Simon Sinek, when hesaid people don't buy what you
do, they buy why you do it.
And I think it, and it's also, Iwould add how it makes someone
feel, and that's like when youwere talking about the barbecue,
it's yeah, I'm the hero.
You know, it's like what does itdo for me?
That's what cust everybody.
It doesn't really care about youor your product, it's what does
(24:27):
it do for me?
Like, why should I get excitedabout this?
And why should I talk aboutthis?
And I think it's answering thosequestions, is really what
differentiates, a productespecially in a commoditized
category.
Isar Meitis (24:41):
Do you promote referrals somehow?
Meaning do you ask your clientsto send it to their friends or
give them discounts codes?
I'm just wondering from a verytechnical, practical
perspective, what steps can acompany in a commoditized
industry take in order to enjoythe fact that their clients are
happy with their product or
Peter Mann (25:02):
service?
Yeah, we have like a, I guessit's an affiliate type program
where it's like, Give 20, get20.
Whereas a friend buys something,they get$20 off and you get$20
off.
that's been I would say, I'mbeing honest, there's a
effectiveness, but you know, Ithink it's, I think the, a newer
(25:25):
thing that's come about recentlyis more like user generated
content and, letting people showwhat they're doing and creating
contests or programs or ways to,you know, celebrate, you know,
how they're using your productor what it's done for them.
I think that's the directionwe're going and, I've seen it
with other products, wherethey've done that really well.
Isar Meitis (25:44):
I agree a hundred percent.
I especially, again, stuff like,like the stuff you're selling
that really can impact people'slives and if you find a way to
make it a competition or givethem some kind of incentive to
share their journey and sharetheir results, yeah, that
probably works better thananything else because it's
authentic, it's real people, itdoesn't come from the company,
(26:05):
it doesn't seem at least biasedbecause, okay, here's me turning
this thing on and here's whathappened three weeks later.
And so I agree with you ahundred percent.
The other aspect of it isobviously, going to some bigger
authoritative figures and doingmarketing through, leveraging
those kind of people that's beenaround for a while and it's
(26:26):
gaining a lot of traction now,including in fields that it
wasn't before.
it started probably with teenagegoods.
Of buy the Nike shoes or buythis perfume or buy this set of
underwear.
And I think now it's becoming avery valid path for a lot of
(26:47):
other businesses with quoteunquote authority figures in
whatever field, industry, niche,et cetera.
just because these peoplealready have a following and
they've already acquiredpeople's.
And using these kind of channelscould definitely work for
products like
Peter Mann (27:04):
yours.
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, people, I, third partyendorsements is a huge one
because it's not you saying it,it's somebody that's respected,
that's an authority person thatcarries weight and it's if
they're saying it, then it mustbe true.
And there's, I guess it'snatural for there to be
skepticism in claims, whichbecause people make some crazy
claims.
That's why there's like laws orFTC rules around things.
(27:27):
But, I think a really strongthird party endorsement is, at
least in our category, veryinfluential.
There's influencers who dothings and I think it, it's
relevant to the effectiveness istoo relevant to what the
category is, right?
If it's like a fashion type ofproduct, you could have a
celebrity wearing it that'ssuper influential.
(27:49):
But if you have like ourproduct, which we deem as more
of a health type product, havingsomebody that's a health expert
that more or less endorses it oran organization.
That gives it stamp of approvalis really the most in
influential.
So I think it's relevant to whatthe product and category is and
(28:09):
the use of it.
Isar Meitis (28:11):
No, I agree a hundred percent.
So if I summarize the marketingpart, it's about connect with
emotion, tell a story, find, getas many third party either
individuals or influencers, wordof mouth going by promoting it
one way or another.
Peter Mann (28:31):
yeah.
what's I've always findinteresting is people buy thing
on, on emotion and then theyjustify it rationally.
It's like I went and bought thishandbag and I got really excited
about it, and then when you say,why did you buy it?
Then you start rattling off thelist of like rational things.
But that really is not why youbought it.
You bought it because you gotexci.
It made you feel good.
Yeah.
Isar Meitis (28:51):
Yeah.
And I think there are fieldswhere it's easy to do right?
Where, like I said, it'ssomething I wear and it makes me
feel good or it's somethingrelated to a sport I'm doing.
I think it's a lot harder to dowith the world you are in.
Okay.
I'm selling an air purifier.
Yeah.
And I think it's appliance.
You can make that connection.
If you can make that transitionand make people feel good about.
(29:12):
This thing because it's gonnahelp their kids, because it's
gonna help them, because it'sgonna make them sneeze less or
live longer, or sleep better orwhatever.
Again, connect to something thatis a tangible benefit.
then again, you're selling that,you're selling better sleep.
You're selling not sneezing.
You're selling a healthy kid.
You're not selling this devicethat I need to press on and
(29:33):
makes a little bit of noise.
Peter Mann (29:35):
Agree.
And, it could be sellingAmerican values like in terms of
like how we make it andsustainability and, you know,
environmental practices that areat a certain level.
And I don't really, I meanthat's gonna be interesting for
us going forward, how that playsout.
But I do know that Reuters andconsumer reports both did
surveys of American consumersand 70 to 80% prefer American
(30:00):
made products, but very fewwould pay any kind of premium or
even a five or 10% premium.
And so it's that's why cost isso important.
It's such a critical part of ourmarketing.
Yeah.
and
Isar Meitis (30:13):
I think what you're saying is very interesting.
If you find a way to make it inthe US while keeping the prices
competitive then you have astatement you can use and if
not, you can use it, but it'sprobably not gonna help you very
much because people won't paythe difference.
Peter Mann (30:26):
Exactly.
Yeah.
I worked with a contractmanufacturer in the northeast.
Probably eight or 10 years ago,and we developed some products,
but the costs were so high andpeople really wanted their
products sold well, but itwould've done so much better in
the common feedback.
Was it just, it's too expensive.
And so it's like, all right, sowe're gonna find a way, find a
(30:48):
way to solve that one.
Isar Meitis (30:50):
Peter, Let's connect kind of all the dots
together.
I want to do a quick summary andthen if you have any final
thoughts.
One you said is understandingthe customer needs, segmenting
them, understanding what thingsthey need exactly, and then
delivering that to them, whichyou define as marketing within
the product, right?
(31:11):
It's if your product doesexactly what they want, it's a
lot easier to sell to them.
The other thing that we talkedabout is how to be innovative
and.
And sometimes what would seemnot logical, like reassuring and
bringing stuff here, butthinking out of the box.
And then we talked about on themarketing and sales side, how to
connect with people on theemotional level, how to create
(31:32):
word of mouth by third partiesthat are independent.
Preferably some influential,person in the field.
Anything else you wanna add tothe stuff that you're doing
today that is unique that Ireally think it is unique.
I think what you're doing isvery interesting and I think it
has a lot of great businessknow-how that people should try
to think that way in order tomove their businesses in that
Peter Mann (31:52):
direction.
Yeah, I think it's reallylooking at the full picture, you
know?
For us it's sourcing.
If you source from China,there's this time involved and
there's costs and there's oceanshipping and, that's just
assumed to be a given in thecourse of buying and selling
products.
But does it have to be?
I don't think so.
It should be, everything shouldbe on the table.
(32:14):
You should really look at everyitem and is there a way to
improve it or do it differently.
And have a mindset of continuousimprovement and not that this is
the way we've always done it,but how can eliminate certain
things.
Cuz there's so much competitionand it's really it's challenging
I think with so many competitorsand it's, but it's a great
(32:36):
opportunity because, noteveryone is willing to do that.
But the other thing I would addis everything takes longer and
costs more than you would think.
And you have to go into it withknowing that.
We thought, maybe a year or so,we developed this product and
now we're a little over twoyears and we're just getting
ready to launch it.
And it's like, but the time wasworth it because we made
(32:59):
improvements and we really arelike checking all the boxes and
we're doing it right.
And you always want to do thingsfaster.
It's just sometimes there'slimitations there.
You come across things that youdidn't know you didn't know.
And it's, to me that's kind ofpart of the fun, but it's also
just getting clear that it willcost more and it will take
longer and just know that going.
Isar Meitis (33:23):
Peter, this was really great.
Like we touched on a lot ofreally important points.
Again, to any business I think.
Thank you so much.
If people wanna connect withyou, follow you, work with your
business, buy our products,what's the best way to do
Peter Mann (33:36):
that?
Sure.
Yeah.
Our website is oransi.com ororansi.com.
And I'm on LinkedIn at PeterMann, m a n n.
Isar Meitis (33:45):
Awesome.
Peter, thank you so much.
This was really great.
I appreciate you taking.
Peter Mann (33:50):
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Enjoyed it.
hello, and welcome to the Business Growth
Accelerator.
This is Isar Mattis, your host,and I have a very special guest
and topic for you today.
Technology has been advancing alot and the global economy
enables.
Basically anybody who wants tofind cheap flavor services and
product, manufacturing overseas,which makes almost anything you
(00:21):
can think of become a commodityeither very quickly or
eventually.
So if you are in a businesstoday, whether you are selling
products or services, There's avery, very high likelihood
you're in a somewhatcommoditized market, and if
you're not, it probably will be.
Especially now with the impactsof the incredible AI
capabilities that are availableto basically everyone today.
(00:41):
When before it was available, toGoogle and Amazon, The problem
when you're in a commoditizedmarket is figuring out how do
you differentiate yourself?
How do you rise above the noise?
How do you get more market shareand connect and have more
customers for a longer period oftime compared to your
competition?
And sometimes you have to dothings that are very, quote
(01:03):
unquote trivial, but you need toknow what they are.
And sometimes it soundscounterintuitive like reshoring
manufacturing from cheap placeslike China back to the us which
like, okay, how does that makeany sense?
Everything's gonna be moreexpensive.
These are exactly the topicswe're gonna discuss today, which
I find fascinating and I thinkyou will find it fascinating as
(01:23):
well.
And we're gonna have thatconversation with Peter Mann.
Peter is a successfulentrepreneurhe already started
and sold one company.
He's currently the c e o and thefounder of Orci, and he's
revolutionizing a highlycommoditized industry of home
and office air purifiers.
(01:44):
And he's an expert on how todifferentiate yourself in these
kind of scenarios.
And again, since I think this isnow a global problem, I'm really
excited to have as a guesttoday,Before we jump into
(02:56):
today's episode, there'ssomething I want to share with
you about two weeks ago, I'velaunched another podcast.
The podcast is called LeveragingAI And if you like this podcast,
you're gonna love leveraging AIbecause it's a very similar
approach.
I interview really smart peoplefrom the AI world practitioners
and experts who share how toleverage AI in order to grow
(03:17):
your business and advance yourcareer.
So pull up your phone right now,whatever platform you are using
in order to listen to thispodcast.
Search for leveraging ai, checkit out.
I think you'll find itfascinating.
There's already nine episodes inthere, including a really
fascinating interview withChatGPT as the guest.
It's unique and different andfun and interesting, and we talk
(03:39):
about the impact of AItechnology on businesses and
society as a whole.
So look for leveraging ai.
And if you enjoy it, subscribeto it and also write me a note
on LinkedIn and let me know whatyou think.
And now to the episode withPeter Mann.
peter, welcome to the
Peter Mann (03:56):
Business Growth Accelerator.
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Excited to be here.
Peter.
Isar Meitis (04:00):
Let's start with when did it hit you?
And I dunno if it was day one orsomewhere in your management
within that industry that youunderstood that, oh my God, like
what I do?
There's so many companies whocan do the same exact thing.
They can manufacture it in thesame exact factories in China
and make basically any claimsthey want on it to say that it's
(04:24):
betters one way or another.
When did it hit you, and whatwere your mindset or your
thoughts as that thought evolved
Peter Mann (04:31):
in your head?
Yeah, I would say, our category.
Before Covid, it really wasn'tthat crowded of a space and
there was not a lot of brands,but when Covid hit the air Pur
farm market just exploded andjust dozens and dozens of brands
entered the space to where itbecame oversaturated.
And you get to a point wherethere's really marginal
(04:54):
differentiation between productsif you're calling a spade, it's,
and being truthful withyourself.
It's what it is.
And, it's interesting now, isthat, we're, really on the other
side of Covid.
The market is back closer towhere it was pre covid, but now
we just have so many competitorsand it's, there's so much noise.
And the reality is the categoryhas really become a commodity if
(05:18):
we're being honest withourselves.
And it's like how do you competein that space?
Because it really just, in amatter of two or three years,
this whole industry market havejust turned up, turned upside.
And it's a challenge, but it's,it's also an opportunity, to see
enough.
Yeah.
Isar Meitis (05:33):
I think what you're describing is like the perfect
worse storm right there, therewas a huge demand, which led to
huge growth in supply.
Yeah.
And then the demand died backdown, but you still have all the
suppliers who got into thespace, or at least most of them.
So what are the things that youreally started doing to change
(05:54):
the situation, to say, okay, howdo I take my business and make
it something different that willstand out?
Yeah, it's two, two things.
At high level, it's, it's,lowering cost, because it's in a
commoditized world.
if your costs aren't in linewith where they need to be,
you're gonna go outta businessand you have to connect with the
customer.
and, stand out.
(06:15):
Nike makes shoes in the samefactory as other brands that,
but they have such a strongbrand and such a strong
connection and, and they'veleveraged that in a very
commoditized, industry.
And so we're having to do thesame thing.
And, in reshoring manufacturing,we've put so much development
into our product that we'vefigured out how to take cost out
(06:36):
and have a better story.
And so that's what I'm reallyexcited about.
Peter Mann (06:41):
There's, so
Isar Meitis (06:42):
I find this fascinating on so many different
levels and we'll start divinginto them one by one.
I think I wanna start withreally what something you told
me, which I agree with you ahundred percent when we did the
pre-call for this, which isunderstanding what the clients
are actually looking for.
Because that's where it allstarts, right?
You, when you wannadifferentiate, you better
(07:02):
differentiate in a way thatactually people would care about
because they could say, oh, weare gonna make our products pink
and really big.
That's gonna be different, butmaybe it's not gonna work to
your benefit.
How do you figure it out?
How do you really understand,like truly understand what will
make a difference for the clientwho're
Peter Mann (07:21):
trying to serve?
Yeah, so the way.
we're wired or oriented is we'revery data driven and we just let
the numbers do the talking.
it's, we could think something,but if the data in the, in the
market intelligence tells yousomething different, you really
can't ignore that.
And we look at what's selling inthe marketplace, what are those
features?
What are the price points?
What, why is someone buyingthis?
(07:43):
and we could have an opinion onthat product, but it really
doesn't matter if that's really.
what the customers want.
And there's tools.
I don't know.
I don't have any, we use JungleScout and there's a number of
other tools.
So you can go into Amazon andreally get pretty, pretty
accurate, sales data on anyproduct.
and Amazon's such a hugemarketplace.
(08:05):
it's a good.
it's a good way to get a sensefor what's selling and what's
not selling and what the pricepoints are and what the features
are.
and that's just an initial datapoint.
And then two is we have, a teamof customer service folks that
are talking with customers everyday and, getting the pulse of
the customer and, feeding thatback to us.
And so it's the humaninteractions it.
(08:26):
it's raw data.
It's looking at reviews and whatpeople are saying, and it's not,
the five star reviews.
It's what are the three or fourstar reviews?
What are they critical of?
And is there an opportunity todo something about that?
Isar Meitis (08:40):
I love that.
So if I put that into two bigbuckets, one is.
Quantitative data, which you'recollecting both from yourself
and from your competitionthrough technology tools.
Which then you can aggregate andanalyze in different ways.
And the other thing is reallyqualitative, human relation kind
(09:01):
of data.
Whether it's directly talking toyour customers or potential
customers, as well as looking atwhat people writing in reviews
that we don't like this or thisis not working, or this is why,
we returned it or whatever.
I think this is brilliant.
I wanna add, again, going backto the AI tools that are out
there today.
One of the biggest problemsuntil very recently with
(09:21):
qualitative data was how do youmake sense of it?
Like you can collect qualitativedata, but it's just a lot of raw
data that was impossible to dounless you had a few people
literally reading messages andtrying to analyze.
And now with AI tools, There areincredible tools out there that
you can just plug into GoogleSheets that can give you the
sentiment of different thingsand put them into categories and
(09:43):
buckets and score them based onwhatever definitions you define
with zero cost.
And so our ability to analyzelarge numbers of qualitative
data has became incredible andaccessible that they were not
before.
Okay, so now you have this.
(10:04):
What did you do then?
Okay, now you understand whatthe clients are looking for as
quote unquote differentiators orwhat they care about.
One of the things you alreadysaid, they want a good price.
Yeah.
which I assume became veryobvious from looking at the
data.
What other things you found thatmaybe surprised you or things
that you learned that you shouldfocus on that you did not know
(10:26):
before?
Looking at the data.
Peter Mann (10:28):
Yeah, like for air purifiers, I would say they care
about, just things like noiselevel and the look at the look
and feel of the product, howsimple it is to use, just the
functionality.
It really depends upon justdifferent profiles of customers.
And that's another thing youlook at, like if you're senior
citizen and you maybe, you wantsomething that's light simple to
(10:49):
use.
You don't wanna mess with apps,you just wanna just set it and
forget it and be done with it.
And we also sell the businessesand you're a dentist office.
You may not have floor space andyou need to have a way of like,
where can I put this so it, itdoes the job, but doesn't take
up my precious floor space.
It's like there's very little ofit.
And so it's really looking atjust demographics and
(11:12):
psychographics and profiles forcustomers and really understand
who's buying from you.
And then, market the product ina way that connects with that
customer and then buildfeatures, into a product or even
de feature a product.
If that's what it takes to getdown to the right cost.
And that's more of the directionwe've gone is really doing
everything we can intoeverything goes into the
(11:33):
performance of the product.
And anything that doesn't driveperformance, we're not even
gonna spend a penny on becausewe need, the cost is so
Isar Meitis (11:41):
critical.
Okay, so again, if I broaden thedefinitions that you're saying,
a, categorize your clients intothe different buckets that you
think you can compete in thosespecific markets.
Understand their very specificneeds and build your products
aligned to those needs.
And like you're saying, in manycases, and in the software
industry, it's way more commonthan manufacturing products.
(12:03):
You create a lot of bells andwhistles because it's a lot
easier and cheaper than when youhave to manufacture.
That your clients may don't evencare about.
Just your product team thoughtit's a good idea, or somebody in
the business thought it shouldbe a part of the plan or
whatever, and then it doesn'treally serve.
The real needs of the realclients.
It costs you more money todevelop, maintain service, and
(12:23):
so on.
And so the combination of theunderstanding of the specific
needs and doing focusing onthose core things in your
products is your key to success.
I wanna touch on the reassuringaspect of it, because I find
this very interesting.
On one hand you're saying, Iwant to cut cost On the other
thing you're saying, oh, I'mgonna fat manufacture in here in
(12:44):
the US where rent cost me.
A thousand x more it is than afactory in China.
Labor cost me a thousand x morethan factory in China.
Supply of goods probably stillmore expensive than getting it
in China because they'reprobably buying much bigger
quantities.
So how are you able to reshoremanufacturing?
Wow.
(13:05):
Driving the
Peter Mann (13:06):
cost down.
Yeah, so it's, what'sinteresting is we bought a large
manufacturing facility.
It's, we have 156,000 squarefeet.
Wow.
And we're, we, right now, we'reunlike 32 people, so we're not
utilizing a lot of this space.
And so with all our excesscapacity we're, offering three
pl warehousing fulfillmentservices, in, in just doing
(13:29):
that, it, it pays for our.
And so it's okay, so we, it'snot free, but doesn't really
cost us anything and we'rebuilding an asset, which is
pretty exciting.
Isar Meitis (13:39):
And then, and it's an asset you can depreciate.
So now on the books, it lookslike there's a lot of other
benefits to doing that.
Peter Mann (13:45):
Yeah.
And so that works out reallywell cuz you know, there's a, in
general, a shortage of warehousespace, at least in, we're in
Virginia in our part of theworld.
and so it's working out reallywell.
We're getting people all thetime, looking to, for us to
store product for them or dofulfillment.
and There's that, we've alsoreally put a focus on like, how
do we design the products?
(14:06):
How do we take cost out, and howdo we manufacture it here?
And we've figured out that laboris really the variable to cost.
if you buy a component or if youbuy resin or plastics or.
it doesn't cost.
the cost is pretty similar hereversus in China, it's the labor
is the difference.
And, the way that the Chinesemake physical products, at least
(14:27):
within our category, is theywanna spend as little as
possible upfront in the toolingand the development.
And so they have a lot of simpleparts that requires 30, 40, 50
people on an assembly line toput together.
And you can't take all thoseparts and make it here and
expect to be cost competitivewith a Chinese factory, you have
(14:49):
to find a different way.
And so ours is just simplytaking labor out by reducing the
part count and making itassembled just so much more
simply.
And that's why it's taken us twoplus years to really get to the
point of getting the product,fully developed and ready to
launch is just working all thosedetails out because it is a lot
(15:10):
more upfront expense, but then,longer term your variable costs
are lower.
If you can take something that'sa hundred parts and make it 35
parts it's you've just takenlabor out and can be a lot more
efficient.
And so we're also moving from.
If you source from China, you'rebuying finished goods and you
have to pay for the product, youhave to ship it over here.
(15:30):
There's all that, cost andinventory, whereas we're just
buying, raw materials, which aremuch lower cost, and you can do
more just in time delivery, soyou get weekly shipments and
whatnot.
And so it's like your capital isactually a lot less in an
ongoing basis.
And so that's really a point ofdifferentiation for us.
(15:51):
We can be a lot more flexibleand not be a bank or have to
incur, inventory costs and 90day lead times and, all the
things that go on with, sourcingfrom China.
So I think that's really gonnabe a competitive advantage for.
Isar Meitis (16:06):
I think it's brilliant.
I wanna touch on a few aspectshere again, on a broader sense
from the example you gave.
First of all, there's a companyhere in Florida, you and I
talked about that, that justlaunched a 3D printed rocket to
space and they 3D printed 90something percent of the parts
of the rocket.
And their biggest savings isexactly because of what you
(16:28):
said.
They're full launch, like thefull operation of that one
launch cost them$12 million,which in space launch numbers is
practically free.
And so the biggestdifferentiator is the number of
parts they have.
They have less than 1% partsthan any other space create like
(16:48):
rocket manufacturing company.
And that saves a huge amount oftooling and then space and then
labor, and then testing and thenquality control that everything
is assembled to get, like, allof these things go away and
you've basically done the samething into, in a different
industry.
And I think the interestingthing about reassuring that
(17:10):
you're bringing as a veryinteresting idea is thinking out
of the box.
Because, and it's the sameeverywhere you look at a
software company, most softwarecompanies work the same way with
the same tools, with the sameinfrastructure, with the same
cloud services, with a, and ifyou're saying, okay, do I need
to do everything like everybodyelse is doing just because
that's the way everybody else isdoing it?
And the answer sometimes is yes.
Sometimes you don't have a.
(17:31):
But sometimes you may takesomething that is, this is the
common way things are done, anddo it completely differently and
be able to, like you're saying,a, be more innovative and
provide better solutions for myspecific target clients.
But b, do it much cheaper, muchshorter, lead times which keeps
happy customers and so on.
(17:52):
I think it's absolutelybrilliant.
How do you use.
These two things that we talkedabout, meaning your
understanding of the client'sneeds together with the fact
that you're building stuff nowin the us in your marketing and
the way you sell
Peter Mann (18:11):
the product.
Yeah.
so part of marketing I think isbuilding marketing into the
product.
That's like a Seth Godin, it hasa whole book I think called,
this is Marketing which I wouldrecommend, anyone that debt
markets a product, get it.
It's what I've learned is if youhave an average met too product,
you're gonna spend so much inadvertising, to sell that.
(18:34):
Whereas if you can generate wordof mouth, it's, I don't know,
they say 10 times more effectivethan any other form of
advertising.
And it's Build marketing to yourproduct, make it remarkable that
make people, or let people talkabout it and do the marketing
for you.
And so that's, and it takes alot of thought to get to that.
And it's a mind shift versusjust, having a, if you have an
(18:55):
engineering focus where it'swe're just gonna build the best
product out there, It has toconnect with the customer and
you have to build it.
So somebody, like the AI stuffwe were talking about, it's that
thing just feeds itself, right?
Because it's so cool and it'snew and who knows what you can
do with it next.
And people are, I've, some ofthem most popular posts on
LinkedIn are like, oh, did youknow you could, this is how you
(19:16):
use the open AI and this is howyou ask a question.
Or this is you don't use it likeGoogle actually like framed the
situation and then people talkabout that, and for me it's also
the psychology of it is why dopeople talk about things and,
how do things spread?
And it's, there's like apsychology aspect to it as well.
And I think to me, that's justhuman behavior is fascinating.
(19:39):
And so I think it goes back tothat and marketing is really, my
view just connecting with thecustomer and using their
language and in, in a way that,gets them excited emotionally to
where they'll not just buy it,but talk about it.
Isar Meitis (19:55):
So let's dive to the how of what you just said,
because I agree with you ahundred percent.
If people will share thatthey're using your product and
that they're happy with itbecause you built an awesome
product.
Then you had an amazing examplewith Dr.
Fosse, using your stuff, andI'll let you yeah.
Talk about this, but how do youget people to talk about your
product?
A and again, especially you'rethe perfect example, right?
(20:16):
Because if I'm selling a coolwidget or a fun car or a right
exciting adventure thatobviously people are gonna talk
about, but you're selling an airpur fire, right?
So how do you get, what steps doyou take?
What measures do you put inplace in order to get your
customers to actually share thatthey're enjoying this and this
(20:37):
has changed their lives one
Peter Mann (20:38):
way or another?
Yeah, I mean it's, I don't know,marketing is a bit frustrating
too, like accounting peoplebecause it's like an art and a
science and it's not just allscience and, you can see in your
metrics in terms of, basicreturn on ads spend or, there's
different metrics you can see,you can look at.
Google search trends and seewhat you know.
(20:59):
Is your brand being searchedmore than it has been?
Is it growing?
And, there's some qualitativemeasures you could, you can take
to get the pulse on where yourbrand is.
You can see sales.
I think sales is the ultimateindicator.
You can look at, on Amazon howyou're selling versus your
competition.
And but how do you get there?
Is that's kind that's the trick.
(21:21):
It's really understanding yourproduct, your category, your
customer.
I don't know of a specificformula that you go off of, but
I think about also, why dopeople buy things And, it's
often status or affiliation,right?
And like with what we're doingis, people buy, I'll just say
Dyson because Dyson's reallystrong brand, and it's oh, I'm
(21:42):
cool.
I have a Dyson, or I have aTesla, because it's the first
big brand of electric cars.
And, you can start questioningthem a little bit, but it, it's
not, it's more of a emotionaldecision.
That someone that buys that.
So I think the question is, howdo you make it emotional for
someone?
Which is a lot to unpack, Ithink, in that question.
(22:05):
And it's the story.
People connect on stories.
People I think wanna buy frompeople that they like or that
they associate with, or thatshare their interests and.
I think it's all about makingconnections and being a human
being to, to other folks.
Isar Meitis (22:24):
Yeah.
And your story started likethat, right?
That's why you started thebusiness.
Peter Mann (22:28):
Yeah, I started cuz my son was asthmatic and was
really looking for a healthy wayto help with his condition,
which was to me prettytraumatic.
And so it kind of, you know,left a mark on me to help him as
well as anyone else in thatcondition.
Isar Meitis (22:44):
Yeah, I think I, I think at the end of the day,
going back to what you saidabout emotions and selling
through emotion, It's there's areally famous article, I don't
remember who wrote it, but hetalks about different ads and
how they connect with people.
And he shows different ads forgrills, which is again, it's a
commodity.
I can buy a grill from anybody,and some companies are selling
(23:05):
the grill or selling the$150discount.
They're giving this whateverseason it is and so on.
And some companies sell thebarbecue party.
They're not trying to sell thegrill.
They're saying, look at how coolyou're going to be with your
buddies.
Yeah.
With beers in their hands andhanging out by the pool and
watching the football game.
(23:26):
And that's what people reallyconnect with.
And you are doing the samething.
You're basically saying, I'm notselling you this.
Really cool box with fancylights in an olive button.
I'm selling you a better qualityof life.
I'm selling you and I'm sure Idunno if you're doing this yet,
but I assume you're using themade in the USA part of this as
well,
Peter Mann (23:45):
right?
Yeah.
And I think it goes back to evenlike Steve Jobs, you know, when
he came out with the Mac, Idon't know if you've seen the
videos from, I think theeighties.
It's like people don't buy offof speeds and feeds like that
doesn't get specifications thatit's like the developer of the
product may get super excitedabout some aspect of it, but I
think that's a trap and itdoesn't connect emotionally.
(24:07):
And even Simon Sinek, when hesaid people don't buy what you
do, they buy why you do it.
And I think it, and it's also, Iwould add how it makes someone
feel, and that's like when youwere talking about the barbecue,
it's yeah, I'm the hero.
You know, it's like what does itdo for me?
That's what cust everybody.
It doesn't really care about youor your product, it's what does
(24:27):
it do for me?
Like, why should I get excitedabout this?
And why should I talk aboutthis?
And I think it's answering thosequestions, is really what
differentiates, a productespecially in a commoditized
category.
Isar Meitis (24:41):
Do you promote referrals somehow?
Meaning do you ask your clientsto send it to their friends or
give them discounts codes?
I'm just wondering from a verytechnical, practical
perspective, what steps can acompany in a commoditized
industry take in order to enjoythe fact that their clients are
happy with their product or
Peter Mann (25:02):
service?
Yeah, we have like a, I guessit's an affiliate type program
where it's like, Give 20, get20.
Whereas a friend buys something,they get$20 off and you get$20
off.
that's been I would say, I'mbeing honest, there's a
effectiveness, but you know, Ithink it's, I think the, a newer
(25:25):
thing that's come about recentlyis more like user generated
content and, letting people showwhat they're doing and creating
contests or programs or ways to,you know, celebrate, you know,
how they're using your productor what it's done for them.
I think that's the directionwe're going and, I've seen it
with other products, wherethey've done that really well.
Isar Meitis (25:44):
I agree a hundred percent.
I especially, again, stuff like,like the stuff you're selling
that really can impact people'slives and if you find a way to
make it a competition or givethem some kind of incentive to
share their journey and sharetheir results, yeah, that
probably works better thananything else because it's
authentic, it's real people, itdoesn't come from the company,
(26:05):
it doesn't seem at least biasedbecause, okay, here's me turning
this thing on and here's whathappened three weeks later.
And so I agree with you ahundred percent.
The other aspect of it isobviously, going to some bigger
authoritative figures and doingmarketing through, leveraging
those kind of people that's beenaround for a while and it's
(26:26):
gaining a lot of traction now,including in fields that it
wasn't before.
it started probably with teenagegoods.
Of buy the Nike shoes or buythis perfume or buy this set of
underwear.
And I think now it's becoming avery valid path for a lot of
(26:47):
other businesses with quoteunquote authority figures in
whatever field, industry, niche,et cetera.
just because these peoplealready have a following and
they've already acquiredpeople's.
And using these kind of channelscould definitely work for
products like
Peter Mann (27:04):
yours.
Yeah, I agree.
I mean, people, I, third partyendorsements is a huge one
because it's not you saying it,it's somebody that's respected,
that's an authority person thatcarries weight and it's if
they're saying it, then it mustbe true.
And there's, I guess it'snatural for there to be
skepticism in claims, whichbecause people make some crazy
claims.
That's why there's like laws orFTC rules around things.
(27:27):
But, I think a really strongthird party endorsement is, at
least in our category, veryinfluential.
There's influencers who dothings and I think it, it's
relevant to the effectiveness istoo relevant to what the
category is, right?
If it's like a fashion type ofproduct, you could have a
celebrity wearing it that'ssuper influential.
(27:49):
But if you have like ourproduct, which we deem as more
of a health type product, havingsomebody that's a health expert
that more or less endorses it oran organization.
That gives it stamp of approvalis really the most in
influential.
So I think it's relevant to whatthe product and category is and
(28:09):
the use of it.
Isar Meitis (28:11):
No, I agree a hundred percent.
So if I summarize the marketingpart, it's about connect with
emotion, tell a story, find, getas many third party either
individuals or influencers, wordof mouth going by promoting it
one way or another.
Peter Mann (28:31):
yeah.
what's I've always findinteresting is people buy thing
on, on emotion and then theyjustify it rationally.
It's like I went and bought thishandbag and I got really excited
about it, and then when you say,why did you buy it?
Then you start rattling off thelist of like rational things.
But that really is not why youbought it.
You bought it because you gotexci.
It made you feel good.
Yeah.
Isar Meitis (28:51):
Yeah.
And I think there are fieldswhere it's easy to do right?
Where, like I said, it'ssomething I wear and it makes me
feel good or it's somethingrelated to a sport I'm doing.
I think it's a lot harder to dowith the world you are in.
Okay.
I'm selling an air purifier.
Yeah.
And I think it's appliance.
You can make that connection.
If you can make that transitionand make people feel good about.
(29:12):
This thing because it's gonnahelp their kids, because it's
gonna help them, because it'sgonna make them sneeze less or
live longer, or sleep better orwhatever.
Again, connect to something thatis a tangible benefit.
then again, you're selling that,you're selling better sleep.
You're selling not sneezing.
You're selling a healthy kid.
You're not selling this devicethat I need to press on and
(29:33):
makes a little bit of noise.
Peter Mann (29:35):
Agree.
And, it could be sellingAmerican values like in terms of
like how we make it andsustainability and, you know,
environmental practices that areat a certain level.
And I don't really, I meanthat's gonna be interesting for
us going forward, how that playsout.
But I do know that Reuters andconsumer reports both did
surveys of American consumersand 70 to 80% prefer American
(30:00):
made products, but very fewwould pay any kind of premium or
even a five or 10% premium.
And so it's that's why cost isso important.
It's such a critical part of ourmarketing.
Yeah.
and
Isar Meitis (30:13):
I think what you're saying is very interesting.
If you find a way to make it inthe US while keeping the prices
competitive then you have astatement you can use and if
not, you can use it, but it'sprobably not gonna help you very
much because people won't paythe difference.
Peter Mann (30:26):
Exactly.
Yeah.
I worked with a contractmanufacturer in the northeast.
Probably eight or 10 years ago,and we developed some products,
but the costs were so high andpeople really wanted their
products sold well, but itwould've done so much better in
the common feedback.
Was it just, it's too expensive.
And so it's like, all right, sowe're gonna find a way, find a
(30:48):
way to solve that one.
Isar Meitis (30:50):
Peter, Let's connect kind of all the dots
together.
I want to do a quick summary andthen if you have any final
thoughts.
One you said is understandingthe customer needs, segmenting
them, understanding what thingsthey need exactly, and then
delivering that to them, whichyou define as marketing within
the product, right?
(31:11):
It's if your product doesexactly what they want, it's a
lot easier to sell to them.
The other thing that we talkedabout is how to be innovative
and.
And sometimes what would seemnot logical, like reassuring and
bringing stuff here, butthinking out of the box.
And then we talked about on themarketing and sales side, how to
connect with people on theemotional level, how to create
(31:32):
word of mouth by third partiesthat are independent.
Preferably some influential,person in the field.
Anything else you wanna add tothe stuff that you're doing
today that is unique that Ireally think it is unique.
I think what you're doing isvery interesting and I think it
has a lot of great businessknow-how that people should try
to think that way in order tomove their businesses in that
Peter Mann (31:52):
direction.
Yeah, I think it's reallylooking at the full picture, you
know?
For us it's sourcing.
If you source from China,there's this time involved and
there's costs and there's oceanshipping and, that's just
assumed to be a given in thecourse of buying and selling
products.
But does it have to be?
I don't think so.
It should be, everything shouldbe on the table.
(32:14):
You should really look at everyitem and is there a way to
improve it or do it differently.
And have a mindset of continuousimprovement and not that this is
the way we've always done it,but how can eliminate certain
things.
Cuz there's so much competitionand it's really it's challenging
I think with so many competitorsand it's, but it's a great
(32:36):
opportunity because, noteveryone is willing to do that.
But the other thing I would addis everything takes longer and
costs more than you would think.
And you have to go into it withknowing that.
We thought, maybe a year or so,we developed this product and
now we're a little over twoyears and we're just getting
ready to launch it.
And it's like, but the time wasworth it because we made
(32:59):
improvements and we really arelike checking all the boxes and
we're doing it right.
And you always want to do thingsfaster.
It's just sometimes there'slimitations there.
You come across things that youdidn't know you didn't know.
And it's, to me that's kind ofpart of the fun, but it's also
just getting clear that it willcost more and it will take
longer and just know that going.
Isar Meitis (33:23):
Peter, this was really great.
Like we touched on a lot ofreally important points.
Again, to any business I think.
Thank you so much.
If people wanna connect withyou, follow you, work with your
business, buy our products,what's the best way to do
Peter Mann (33:36):
that?
Sure.
Yeah.
Our website is oransi.com ororansi.com.
And I'm on LinkedIn at PeterMann, m a n n.
Isar Meitis (33:45):
Awesome.
Peter, thank you so much.
This was really great.
I appreciate you taking.
Peter Mann (33:50):
Yeah.
Thank you so much.
Enjoyed it.
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