Are you tired of attracting the wrong clients? Want to know how you can set yourself apart in the saturated world of content marketing? In this episode, we delve into the world of 'Content Fortresses' with our guest experts.
Our experts, Lyndsay Cambridge and Martin Huntbach of Jammy Digital, break down the concept of a 'Content Fortress', a strategic approach to content marketing that attracts the right clients and repels the wrong ones. They share their insights, experiences, and methods to help you build a strong, unique brand that speaks to your ideal audience.
Here are some of the topics we covered:
🎯 The concept of 'Content Fortress' and its importance in modern marketing.
📚 Understanding 'Authority Content' and how it boosts your brand reputation.
🧲 'Attracting Content' - the secret to drawing in your ideal client.
🚫 The power of 'Repelling Content' and how it saves you from the wrong clients.
💡 'Education Content' - why it's crucial to educate before selling.
🎁 The magic of 'Bonus Content' and how it adds value to your clients.
🔄 The role of 'Process Content' in streamlining your work.
🌍 The importance of 'Culture and Opinion Content' in telling your brand's story.
Lyndsay and Martin are experts in content marketing and have built their business around these principles and have shared their wealth of knowledge with us. You can connect with them on their website, where they provide more valuable resources and further delve into the world of content marketing.
Don't miss out on this opportunity to revolutionize your content marketing strategy!
Hi, It's Isar the host of the Business Growth Accelerator Podcast
I am passionate about growing businesses and helping CEOs, business leaders, and entrepreneurs become more successful. I am also passionate about relationship building, community creation for businesses, and value creation through content.
I would love it if you connect with me on LinkedIn. Drop me a DM, and LMK you listened to the podcast, what you think and what topics you would like me to cover 🙏
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Isar Meitis (00:00):
Hello and welcome to the Business Growth
Accelerator.
This is Isar Meitis, your host,and today we're going to talk
about marketing and morespecifically about content
marketing.
And the goal of marketing is toattract and nurture clients.
That's why marketing exists Andcontent is the tool that a lot
of people use to walk peoplethrough the know, trust.
(00:20):
Journey.
So that's like a given andeverybody knows that.
But the question is how do youcreate really good content that
truly attracts the right people?
And like my guests today, say,as importantly, repel the wrong
people.
And that's an interestingconcept by itself.
So my guests today are LindsayCambridge and Martin Hunt Batch
and who own and run JammyDigital.
(00:43):
It's a multi six figure contentmarketing agency.
And they, what they say is it'sfor people who are not afraid to
stand out, which I think isbrilliant.
And if you look at theircontent, it's really cool.
It's really unique.
Their entire website looks likea cartoonish, kind of thing,
which again, very different,which you'll see from there
very.
(01:04):
Positive, vibrant vibe reallyshows who they are and again,
attracts the right people andprobably repels the people who
are, don't, dive into that.
So they definitely walk the walkand not just talk the talk.
And we're going to, they're alsothe authors of.
A book called The ContentFortress, and today we're going
to talk about the eight pillarsthat put together a content
(01:25):
fortress to be a strongfortress.
Why the hell do you need that?
And why is that vital to thesuccess of your business?
(02:32):
So Lindsay and Martin, welcometo the Business Growth
Accelerator.
Martin (02:36):
Thanks so much for having us.
We're really excited.
Thank.
Amazing
Isar Meitis (02:40):
intro.
Awesome.
Thank you.
I've worked on that.
Let's really start with why.
So in before diving into what isthe pillar pillars and how to
put them together, what is thecontent fortress and why
Martin (02:55):
the hell do I need one?
I.
Yeah, so the content Fortresswas born from necessity,
actually.
so when we were running a sortof general marketing agency, web
design, logo, logos, branding,we found that we were attracting
lots of, Kind of clients who weweren't the right fit for us,
(03:16):
they'd get in touch.
They'd either not be right, nothave the budget, maybe they'd be
too demanding.
Maybe they'd just not be at aplace in their business that
they needed our help, and wewere finding that we're spending
an awful lot of time speaking tothese people.
Filter in through the good leadsfrom the bad leads.
And then at the end, we just gota little bit tired with the
(03:37):
effort, the time and energy ittook to get somebody to sign up
with us.
so we realized that we neededto, it's a good place to be
where we're getting leads andinquiries.
A lot of businesses.
A struggle with that, and wehave always been a big fan of
content and creating content inorder to attract traffic, leads
and sales.
So that was working for us.
What wasn't working was the kindof clients that got in touch and
(03:59):
wanted to work with us.
So we just decided to go down a,an avenue of using content to
appeal to our ideal customersand, and as a byproduct, repel
the people that really weren'tthe right fit and.
From doing this and committingto it, we were really able to
transform our business, wasn't
Lyndsay (04:20):
we?
Yeah, definitely.
And then part of the big problemwas, is when we were attracting
anyone and everyone, it's notjust speaking to the wrong
people, we actually, took onsome of the wrong people as
clients.
and that can anyone who'sexperienced that, we've actually
done some of our own research onthis.
And, I think about.
84% of people have had adifficult client within the last
(04:40):
year.
we've researched over 500business owners who explained
this, their businesses.
And anyone who's listening,who's experienced that, knows
how much time it can absorb inyour business and how much money
that can actually cost you.
not just from your, financialperspective and the time in your
business, but also your mentalhealth as well.
It can really have an impact.
so actually, prevent.
(05:02):
Presenting bad clients is a verygood, decision to make in your
business.
And, as a b a nice byproduct, itactually attracts the right
Martin (05:09):
ones too.
Isar Meitis (05:11):
I love that.
I wanna relate to two differentthings that you said because I
think they're really important.
one is one of maybe my mostsuccessful podcast episodes,
which actually I was a guest onsomebody else's podcast and he
took off, so I asked her torelease it on my podcast as well
is called You Want Less Leads.
And people are like, what?
No, I don't want less leads.
I want more leads.
I'm like, no, you want the leastamount of leads that will make
(05:34):
the most amount of money for youbecause all the others are a
waste of resources.
You're wasting marketingresources, you're wasting sales
resources, you're wasting time,you're wasting money, and so you
really want the least amount ofleads.
That will convert because allthe rest is just a waste.
And once you get into thatmindset and you figure out how
can I, and really I think whatyou have is the holy grail,
(05:55):
which is how can I tweak mycontent Yeah.
To do things.
One is attract really my exacttarget audience, so all the rest
are just not gonna fill up theform to talk to me because they
know I won't be able to solvethe problem.
And the other half, which Iliterally haven't heard, Anybody
do before.
And I really like the concept ishow do I repel?
(06:17):
So not just I'm trying toattract very specific people.
I wanna make it very clear topeople who are not within my
niche audience that I don'twanna work with you.
Yes.
So I really think it'sfantastic.
Yeah.
let's dive right in.
so I think the concept is clear.
What are the eight pillars?
Let's go through them one by oneand figure out why.
(06:39):
Each of them are necessary andhow to actually create it in the
most
Martin (06:44):
effective way.
Yeah, no problem.
So I'll go through the pillarsfirst of all, so that you can
get an understanding of they'reall, how they all work and
compliment each other.
so the first one is repellingcontent.
certain types of, so that's thebeginning.
The beginning.
That's the beginning,absolutely.
and it was quite deliberatebecause if you get into the
rhythm of creating the otherkind of content first, then
(07:06):
you're going to attract lots ofnew leads and inquiries because
of the, the concept.
So it is important that you havea mindset of repelling before
you do anything, and who it isfrom your previous clients, who
you want to repel and who youwanna attract.
And that's why it's the firstone.
and to compliment that,obviously we have attracting
content.
So there are certain businessowners out there that have
(07:27):
people they wanna reach, butcurrently they, that they're not
reaching them for whateverreason.
And again, we can explore moreabout that.
We also have sales content,which is content you can create
in order to pull people in rightnow and, and sell your products
and services.
And we've got pricing content,which talks about pricing within
your services, products andservices to make things really
(07:48):
transparent.
And then we also have processcontent, which talks about the
processes that you use withinyour organization.
We have guiding content, whichis used to pre-qualify people
and get them and their mindsetready to work with you, which is
an interesting concept I don'tsee a lot of people talk about.
And then we have opinioncontent.
Which is about you being moreopen about your opinions and
(08:11):
having something that you canstand for.
And then culture, content, whichis really how you can make
people fall in love with you asan organization and have people,
tripping over themselves wantingto work with you.
and while obviously we canexplore all
Lyndsay (08:25):
of that.
Yeah, definitely.
And he always does those onesbecause I'm guaranteed to forget
one of them.
Isar Meitis (08:33):
Awesome.
Really, let's really start goingone by one and talk about what
is the actual content you put inthere, how you figure it out.
What kind of content is it?
Is it written?
Is it video?
Is it blog post?
Is it like, what kind of contentdo you generate?
And maybe even the relevantdistribution channels for each
one.
And then I think we'll coverlike the whole gamut of what
(08:56):
people need to understand andlike you suggested, let's start
with repelling content.
What is repelling content andhow the hell do I know exactly
who am I trying to repel andwhat's gonna repel them?
Lyndsay (09:09):
Yeah.
so repelling content is the mostsimple, but other also the most
therapeutic content that you'llever make in your life.
And it's essentially contentthat tells people exactly who
you don't want to work with andwho you aren't the right fit
for.
And there's two types of peoplereally that you want to repel.
there's people that.
Generally aren't very nicepeople, that are treat you like
(09:32):
an employee, say, or, don'trespect your time and expertise.
Maybe they're rude andunfortunately they are few and
far between those people, butyou actively do want to repel
them.
and the second type are actuallyusually very nice people.
they'll pay on time, they'lltalk to you respectfully, but
they're not quite ready yet foryour products and services.
(09:54):
so we like to actually callthese people damsel in distress.
and I realize that's a termwe've actually had more male
damsels in distress in ourbusiness than females.
However, this is what we like tocall them because essentially
they are very needy.
They require a lot of your time,and energy.
and you have to spend a lot oftime communicating with them.
(10:15):
so to give you an example, inour business when we did web
design in our business, we hada, Woman who was made redundant
from work and she had thisredundancy money and she wanted
to set up a business.
so she, she was really excitedto work with us.
She was really lovely.
and she gave us some money tobuild her a website, but because
she'd never built a businessbefore, we became her business
(10:37):
mentor, so we were talking toabout had sel a business
address.
Her how to get a business logo.
Oh, get a logo.
We were talking to her about allsorts of things.
the millions of questions thatyou have when you set up a
business and you're firststarting out.
So that absorbs so much of ourtime.
And when her website went live,she was asking why she wasn't
getting sales straight away andand it was she
Martin (10:57):
that they will come.
That's,
Lyndsay (10:58):
yeah.
And we felt terrible cause shealmost had this expectation of,
What?
why?
and it felt really bad for usbecause, we thought, isn't it
obvious, but actually it's notto someone first starting out.
so we wrote a piece of contentthat said why new businesses
shouldn't invest thousands ofpounds in a website.
Even if they have that money,they should test out their ideas
(11:19):
first.
They should get to understandthe market, all the things that
you should do, in your businessstarting out.
and we wrote that so it wouldprevent that problem from ever
happening and again, in ourbusiness.
Martin (11:29):
Yeah, exactly.
And, and it's, that's, so thatkind of covers like the damals,
the people that aren't the rightfit for your business.
but we found that quite a lot ofrepelling content would also
come from frustrations, whichis, if someone gets in touch and
like that's a frustration, whichis if that customer.
as an example, bond us up andsaid, I'm not getting any sales.
(11:50):
I'm not happy with this.
Then that led to another pieceof content that would be reasons
your website isn't successful,which we published both of these
articles.
Because of a direct situation.
So quite often what we'll do iswe'll write a piece of content
either for our business, offer aclient, cuz we write content
these days, that we wouldessentially say, What are all
(12:11):
the reasons that you might failat this thing?
Even if you're paying someone,you don't have the right
product.
You don't, you're not promotingthe content out there, you're
not doing these things becauseit's important that we educate,
our, the close audience, but thepeople who might think about
getting in touch with us, wewant them to be aware.
If you are coming to us andthinking this is a, a magic, a
(12:31):
ma, a magic pill, and it's justgoing to change everything, it
still might not be right for youto hire us.
And what happens is when wecreate this content and we say,
don't hire us if you are this,it sounds really, scary, and
potentially even arrogant.
But actually throughout thecontent we say, here's why you
shouldn't hire us because ofthis thing.
(12:51):
However, if you do this and youdo this, then great, as long as
But it's just a way for us totake that kind of, next step of
success and say, be aware thatthis needs to happen in order
for you to get this result.
and I think it just comes acrossas more transparent and even if
people decide not to work withus, which is the point of the
content at this point.
Who's to say that they might notbe in six months after we've
(13:13):
educated them.
I love
Isar Meitis (13:15):
that.
I wanna touch on summarize thispoint.
The goal of this content is tobe very clear on.
If you want the prayerrequisites people need to have
in place and the stuff they needto be willing to do in order for
them to see results if and whenthey work with you.
Yes.
And so by doing so, you're aproviding them some guidance on
(13:37):
if you don't have, A way todistribute the content or
promote the content, then don'thire us to create content for
you, because it's not going towork if you don't have any
marketing channels.
you may have a website, but thewebsite is worthless because
nobody's gonna know it exists,so don't spend the money.
So I love it.
I think it's both an educationalchannel to an extent as well as
(13:58):
a very clear, hoop that peoplehave to jump through in order to
say, okay, I knowingly.
Jump to the other side of thisbecause I got all the ticks in
all the boxes.
that they said that I need tohave.
Awesome.
next is what kind of content?
Attracting
Martin (14:12):
content.
Attracting content.
Attracting content, okay.
Exactly.
So this is a really interestingone because throughout business
you naturally pivot.
You pivot, you might, starttaking on different kind of
clients in different industries,in different niches.
And sometimes you don't wannahave to start from scratch.
You actually just want to startproducing some content to say,
(14:33):
oh, by the way, we serve thiskind of person.
We serve this kind of client.
and in the past we've, we foundit difficult initially to
attract more corporate clientswith bigger budgets.
So what we've done in the pastis produce content, when we're
only working with small localbusinesses.
We wrote a piece of content iswhy, larger businesses want to
(14:56):
hire us to build their websiteand how this kind of client
might benefit from working witha small logo design.
You can imagine how it wouldapply, and we just fleshed out
that content to say.
Essentially you list all of thebenefits of why somebody, what
somebody would get after workingwith you and loop it into who it
(15:16):
is you want to attract.
it's a really powerful onebecause it goes against the
repelling content, and a lot ofthe times it's about just
communicating what products andservices you have.
results that you've got.
You can include results and casestudies of examples to get
people to understand and tobelieve that you can serve them,
you can help them, and you cando that through educational
Lyndsay (15:37):
content.
Yeah, definitely.
and, this worked really well forus actually because we've
always, we've grown now, but thetime we were a very small team.
There was just the two of us,and we attracted some very big
Clients, that would normally gofor a much bigger agency because
we created that kind of contentthat really spoke to them and
said,"yes, you might think thata smaller team might not work
(15:57):
for you, but if you've veryexperienced, having account
managers that change all thetime and not actually speaking
to the owner of the business,you won't have that with us."
And you really tackle theproblems that someone has had in
the past, maybe with someonedifferent, and that's where you
can position yourself as the,the alternative and this kind of
content is really great for kindof small businesses and
freelancers that wanna attract,maybe bigger businesses.
(16:19):
and they can create somethingthat really gets in front of
them and speaks to the problemsthat they're having and how
maybe they can help and howthey're different.
so it does re work really
Martin (16:28):
well.
Yeah.
As an example, one of ourclients who runs a martial arts
school, he decided to, ratherthan just create content about
the the reasons your, childrenshould take part in our class or
how to do a roundhouse kick.
he produced content, which isabout how, a martial arts helps
with bullying or preventbullying.
(16:50):
So it attracted an entiredifferent parent demographic
that we're interested insafeguard in their child in that
sense, rather than, I want tokick, I want to learn, I want to
be a power ranger or whatever.
It was a way for him to to carveout a line in the sand and say,
we are not gonna teach yourchild how to be a black belt and
be a cobra kai.
It's a case of here's No, thatsounds cool.
(17:13):
but it's a case of just saying,look and we're open to this new
kind of person.
and by really thinking about theindividual benefits of what it
is that you offer as a serviceprovider within your products,
the key benefits that peoplemight not be aware of, that's a
really.
Good task to write down all ofthose hidden benefits that
people don't initially think of,and then use content to explain
(17:36):
what those, what they are.
Brilliant.
Isar Meitis (17:40):
I wanna touch and highlight one very specific and
important point, and then I wantto give a twist on this that I
literally heard this morningthat blew my mind.
the first thing is, in order tomake all of this successful, you
really need to understand whoyour target audience is.
Because you need to understandwhat's gonna attract them.
Meaning what are the problemsthat you can solve for them
better than other people, whichis everything that you're
(18:01):
saying.
and so it's all about reallyunderstanding who.
Can you best serve in the mostefficient way and what makes
them tick?
So that's kinda one thing thatI'm hearing again and again in
the background.
The really cool thing that Iheard this morning is there's a
guy, he's a code writer in Ithink Pakistan or somewhere
around Indiana.
(18:21):
I don't wanna insult anybody ofcalling all these people the
same thing, but I don't rememberwhere he is from.
And his thing is writing appsfor Shopify.
So that's his business.
He writes apps for people whohas shops and he.
Used chat, G p T.
So he wrote his own app thatwent and scanned, I think a
hundred thousand Shopify stores.
(18:43):
What they're selling, howthey're selling, what's their
price thing, what languagethey're using, what kind of
audience they have, how many,how much, like all the data that
he could scrape.
And then he had Chachi PT go toeach and every one and write a
personalized message on whatapp.
That could help them sellbetter.
(19:04):
So going from a persona thatyou're talking about to a
person, because the tools arecapable of doing this today.
And the tool that he built, didthe scraping, wrote the thing,
so invented an app for them andsend them an email.
Yeah.
And then he had out of a hundredthousand emails sent, he had
about.
(19:24):
15% that actually replied backand said, oh my God, this is
awesome.
The crazy thing is he didn'thave a clue what he offered.
He paid up those apps, and butthe reason I'm saying all of
this is we live in an era rightnow where you can go a step
further.
With actually less work.
(19:46):
Yeah.
So you can have a machine do theresearch for you on everything
you want to know on your client,and then go mer more
personalized.
So it's not a persona anymore,but it's this company.
So like an A b M play, butwithout having a big Ab M team.
Brilliant.
let's go next.
So this was attracting content.
The next one, if I remembercorrectly, was pricing or maybe
sales.
I
Martin (20:06):
may be confusing.
Yeah, sales content.
So sales content is my favoritepersonally.
Lindsay loves repelling content.
I love sales content.
Sales content is the easiest wayfor you to get customers now.
Okay, so what that means is whenyou have products and services,
sometimes we have to think aboutreally interesting ways to
(20:28):
promote them.
do I do a launch?
Do I, reach out to like JVs anddo I get them to send us
clients?
And it can all feel a little bitoverbearing and scary.
so sales content.
Really sidesteps that which isit's content, so it's helpful,
it's content, so you can shareit on social media, you can
(20:49):
repurpose it to Instagramcarousels.
You can do all of that goodstuff, but it clearly
articulates what your productsand services are and who you
help in the form of blogcontent, or we used it in the
form of blog content.
We've had some clients do asYouTube videos or as in a
podcast for instance, there'splenty of examples where people
(21:09):
use this kind of content.
But it's quite an interestingcuz it has a helpful edge and
this is the important thing.
So rather than you copy andpaste your sales page onto your
blog, that's not what we'retalking about.
It's much a case of.
As an example, when you launch anew service, you could write and
everything you need to knowabout our new service, and it
(21:30):
essentially is, people love FAQsand it's more like an FAQ than
it would be a sales page.
You could break down absolutelyeverything from that particular
content because, nobodycomplains when you create too
much content about your productsand services.
And the reality is that.
We live in a time whereeverybody is preaching about
providing valuable content.
(21:51):
So there's just so many articlesor videos or YouTube or podcast
episodes out there, which is thetop 10 ways to do this, how to
land a job in three steps, andit's all very content value
heavy.
So when someone comes out withan article and says, I've got a
new service, or I'm running anew event, or I've got a new,
SaaS product.
(22:11):
By creating this piece ofcontent, it's actually really
refreshing to actually say,here's everything you need to
know about what we're doing.
Because people like to knowbehind the scenes, people love
behind the scenes content, andthis is a hybrid between a sales
page, an F faq, and a behind thescenes piece of content.
And that's just.
One piece of content that youcan create for one service.
There's just so many more,
Lyndsay (22:31):
isn't there?
Yeah, there's there's so muchmore.
It's really thinking aboutwhenever you make a change to
your product and service forwhatever reason, there's always
an opportunity in there toactually highlight that to your
audience.
So for every time we increaseour prices, and people find this
very bizarre, but every time weincrease our prices, we shout
about it.
So we create a piece of contentcalled Why are we increasing our
(22:52):
prices?
And.
The, we, I mean we monitor thison our emails and the click
through rate to that is insane.
And essentially what you'redoing in that piece of content
is you are listing the amazingthings about what you do in your
service.
That is all you are doing.
there's an opportunity in thereif you want.
You can say, you can get in atmy prices now, or you don't have
(23:12):
to.
but when, whenever we producethis piece of content, it is
always performed incrediblywell.
because what you are doing isyou're getting someone to read.
All the amazing things about youin a way that they wouldn't do
and sit down generally on asales page unless they're,
really interested in workingwith you.
But, when you do it with thispiece of content, it works
incredibly well, and you can dothat with any changes in your
(23:35):
business.
or to your products andservices.
You can do that with any change.
There's always a kind of waythat you can make it really
interesting.
People find this stuff reallyinteresting.
Even, everything you need toknow about my whatever it is,
you would think.
do many people find thatinteresting?
But actually they really do.
and we know because we monitorthis on it for our clients and
ourselves.
People click on this kind ofcontent.
(23:55):
they find it really interestingto see how your business is
working, and understand moreabout it.
And it does lead to sales,
Martin (24:02):
which is really good.
Yeah, it does, especially whenyou loop this into your emails,
because a lot of the times, oneof the, one of the things that
we always tell our clients ismake sure that when you produce
content, you're emailing it toyour list, you're shouting about
it on social media.
Google love it when you've gotreal visitors on a site so that
they can see how well itperforms, how engaging it is.
(24:22):
and this is why it's soimportant to take content
sometimes.
And if you only think aboutcontent from an SEO standpoint,
I'm just gonna write lots ofcontent and hope that Google
reward me.
I.
Then you're missing out on somany other avenues because
people are at various stagesthroughout the buying process.
Maybe people are, maybe theywere looking for you last year,
but they're not searching forthat thing on Google right now,
(24:43):
but they are on your email list.
So this is why we need to belooping those people in our
audience and actually putting itin a very educational and
transparent way, like producingcontent, like why we're
increasing our prices, or whatchanges are we making to our
product and why.
Or everything you need to knowabout this product or this
(25:03):
service.
And one of the, one of myfavorite ones is, you know how
you can work with us.
This is just a remarkable pieceof content because all you're
doing is listing your services,but within the intro, you
essentially just say, Itsuddenly occurred to me that,
you might not know all of theservices that we offer, and
rather than you jump on a callwith us, we just thought, we've
(25:25):
had someone reach out to usrecently and they've asked us
what services we have to offer.
So we just realized that we'venot put this in an article.
So here you are.
Yeah, there's,
Lyndsay (25:34):
there's so many people I follow on LinkedIn.
I'm like, they say amazingstuff.
I have no idea what they do.
Yeah.
Martin (25:39):
Yeah.
I
Isar Meitis (25:41):
wanna add something really cool that you touched on
a few times that again goes backBreadcrumbs to across everything
that you're saying.
Yeah.
Is the way you produce thecontent is from actual life
lessons of things that arehappening with clients, right?
Yeah.
So why would you change yourpro, your product or your
service because, oh my God, thisis an opportunity for us to do
this because there's a demandfor our clients.
(26:02):
You write this down, you createa piece of content around it.
You had a client implementsomething.
That you have given them in adifferent unique way you have a
piece of, so one of the biggestproblems that people have is,
okay, but what do I create thecontent about?
And the easiest thing, and theway I do this is I have a
running sheet.
I use, air table, but you canuse anything like a spreadsheet
(26:23):
or a notetaking app or voicenotes.
Like I do that sometimes as wellwhen I'm driving.
just.
Every idea of stuff that comesup because a piece of content
you've seen, because somethingthat happens with a client
because something happens withinthe company, write it down and
suddenly you have a list thatyou will never, ever finish
consuming.
So just pick up the next onethat is probably gonna be the
most impactful in your eyes atthat moment and create that
(26:47):
piece of content.
Awesome.
So the next one is pricing.
After.
Yeah.
Okay.
Pricing
Martin (26:53):
content.
Pricing content.
You knew more than me then
Isar Meitis (26:56):
I took notes,
Lyndsay (27:00):
and so your pricing content is pretty much what it
says on the tin.
so it's essentially, advisingpeople all about your prices.
we are very much advocates.
For putting prices on yourwebsite and making it clear what
you charge.
Not, you don't, we don't saythat you have to be exact,
particularly if you're aservice-based industry.
(27:20):
but giving your, your people onyour website, your prospects, an
idea, at least an inkling ofaround about what you charge,
and creating content aroundthat.
so people have lots of questionsand potential objections around.
Your prices, they might wonderwhy you charge more than someone
else or why you are moreexpensive than others in your
(27:42):
industry.
That's a question that you cananswer through content.
Oh, why You're too cheap.
Martin (27:46):
Yeah.
why is it that you charge.
3000 when this other companycharged 50,000.
Lyndsay (27:51):
Yep.
And that's quite common inwebsite design, cuz that goes
from, one pound to a hundredthousand pounds.
So Yeah.
you can answer those kind ofquestions.
and obviously, things like whatcan make the price of something
go up, what can make it go down?
So for many of us, we might bedoing.
Different projects and somemight be more, costly than
others.
So you can talk about, okay, soif you are on this budget, this
(28:13):
is what you can do to reducethat.
You can, take this and this off.
Or you can use, even if you are,a B2C business, you can say you
can use this material instead ofthat material.
That, all those kind of thingsthat really help the customer
understand everything they needto know about your prices and
making them feel verycomfortable before they get in
touch with you about how muchyou charge and whether they can,
(28:34):
they,
Martin (28:35):
they can afford that.
Yeah.
And this idea came from, afriend of ours, Marcus Sheridan.
he wrote a book called They AskYou Answer, which is remarkable.
I was just looking for them and,He, he, we've tried adding our
prices to our website at timesin the past, and then we've had
feedback that he shouldn't dothat because, we don't know what
the client wants.
so we tried, we've had ourprices on and off, on and off
(28:57):
constantly.
It was only until Marcus startededucating everybody and saying,
look, there the competitors,They, if they do list their
prices on the website, thenthey, chances are, they're the
ones who are going to get thephone calls or get, because
they're being seen as moretransparent.
and I think it's just a case ofunderstanding that you don't
have to give people, likeLindsay said, the exact pricing.
(29:19):
we do now because we havepackages and we've created a
package that's perfect.
There's a, there's always apackage for someone.
but some people don't.
And the reason that's concerningis because if you don't give
people an indication to how muchyou charge, then.
five outta 10 calls, if you'relucky, might say, oh, I'm sorry.
I've just spent half an hour onthe phone with you or an hour on
(29:41):
a call, and I actually can'tafford that.
I didn't know it was going tocost this.
Therefore, you've wasted thetime.
So it does come back torepelling the people who are not
right for you and attracting thepeople who are, it just means
that whenever we send aproposal, it goes ahead.
if somebody does want to requesta pricing, even if they want
something bespoke, they can seea kind of price range on our
(30:03):
website and they can read any ofthe articles where we talk about
the prices we charge, and, Andeven if they want something
bespoke, we can make a bespokepackage for them.
We don't often do that, but, wedon't need proposals because we
talk ab We, most of the timepeople just decide, I know which
package I want, I just wannaspeak to you, ask a few final
questions, and then moveforward.
(30:24):
It just makes everything easier.
Lyndsay (30:26):
Yeah, definitely.
And if you, I just say, oh,sorry,
Isar Meitis (30:29):
go on.
No, I wanna jump in with one,two important things that come
out of this.
One is transparency.
And again, that goes back toeverything that you said.
The more transparent you are.
And I think some of the nexttopics we're gonna talk about,
like process, culture, andopinion.
I.
Are mostly transparency, likeall the other stuff was mostly
about the service, about theproduct, about the company.
This is more about, okay, who amI?
(30:51):
So the more transparent you are,the better off you are because
people understand.
But the other thing is just putyourself in the side of the
buyer.
Yeah.
And think about when you doingresearch, if you can compare,
you're not gonna just callcompany X.
You're gonna look at 20companies and then have a short
list of five, and then you'regonna compare as much as you can
(31:12):
con compare with the five.
So you don't have to do fivephone calls, you wanna do two or
maybe three.
And so if out of those 20companies, 18 are gonna show
pricing and you don't, thechances you're getting a phone
call are much smaller becauseyou're like, I don't know how
much you charge.
I have enough other options.
It's not like you're the onlyone offering these kind of
service or product.
(31:32):
The other thing that I reallylike about what you said about
what you did is how do youproductize a service?
The problem with services isthat they're hard to.
Put a price to them becauseokay, how many hours is it gonna
be?
Do you want, how many pages doyou want on your website?
How much content do you want usto produce?
Do you want us to alsodistribute the content or just
create the content?
do you like, there's so many.
(31:54):
What if questions in a servicethat's okay, just call us and
we'll figure out what you want.
And then the problem is, youhave all these conversations
that may not be productive foryou and for them.
So everybody's wasting theirtime.
But if you can productize yourservices, say, okay, here's a
bundle.
Here's another bundle, here's afifth bundle.
Here's 10 bundles that I sell,but this is what I sell.
So you pick.
(32:15):
A bucket that you fall into, andthat's very clearly states what
you're getting.
Now you understand what you'rebuying.
So I think it's another greattip on how to take something
that is less tangible and thenagain, less attractive and
potentially a waste of time, andturn it into something that is
very clear, very transparent andeasy for people to decide
whether it's for them beforethey pick up the phone or fill
(32:36):
up a form.
yeah, so this is.
Pricing.
The next, I think was guiding,am I guessing?
Yes.
Yes.
Guiding content.
Guiding content.
Okay.
So what's guiding
Martin (32:46):
content?
Lyndsay (32:47):
so guiding content is essentially where you help guide
someone, to basically make theright.
Buying decision for them.
so it's extremely helpfulcontent that, aims to not only
just promote you, but alsopromote others in your industry,
other options in your industryso that someone finds the right
(33:08):
option for them.
so we created, for example, wecreated kind of a bias.
Guide on how to find the rightweb designer.
And in that we discussed, verycheap web designers you might
want to hire to massive agenciesthat you might want to hire to,
to help you with that andeverywhere in between.
now obviously we weren't a verycheap web designer, we also went
a massive agency.
(33:29):
but we discussed those optionsand the pros and cons of those
options.
and also the pros and cons ofhiring, a team like ours.
And the aim of that really is tomake sure that the people that
come to you are the right fit.
and they fully understand whatit is that you do, the different
options out there, and the factthat, you are the perfect match
for them.
(33:50):
and this always sounds reallyscary when you say, you're
promoting are the people.
You may even promote yourcompetitors in this.
And, but what this does is itshows people that you are not
out to make.
A quick book from everyone.
You are there and you are veryspecific about who you want to
work with and who you're theright fit for.
but you're also really helpfulas well because you're trying to
help people just find the rightcompany for them.
(34:11):
so it's, it builds just a hugeamount of trust, this kind of
content and really does help alot of people.
so even if, someone actuallyuses it, and doesn't go to you
straight away.
They might do, down the line aswell, which has happened to us
quite a few times.
Yeah.
Martin (34:25):
it's about guiding them essentially to make the right
buying decision by sometimessaying, this is who we are and
it might not be the right timefor you.
there's this concept that we,refer to as, I'm trying to
remember the terminology that weuse.
It's the, it's the Troy, youknow the Trojan Horse?
Trojan Horse, yeah.
So the Trojan Horse is a case ofsomebody getting very excited
(34:49):
about working with you becausethey've read your content.
They'll love what you do.
They'll love your brand.
They'll love your business.
They'll love that you'retransparent about pricing.
All great.
But this Trojan Horse clientmight be so excited that they
say, yes, I want to work withyou before they're ready.
So this prevents that fromhappening, which is okay.
So this is where you have towhen you get a few, not red
(35:11):
flags, but a few senses thatthey're getting really excited
to wanna work with you.
And they might not be.
Thinking about it logically, itmight just be an emotional
decision, which is where guidingcontent comes in.
Very helpful.
Because when you publish it, wealways say people don't care
what you say.
They care what you publish.
And if you are prepared to say,no, we, this is important that
(35:32):
you're aware of this before youwork with us.
Cause it might not work.
And again, it does come back.
re with repelling content, butit's a case of you drawing a
line in the sand and saying,listen, it's important that we
don't jump into this, withoutunderstanding all of the moving
pieces.
So for instance, say, bur us asa content agency, the guiding
(35:52):
content would be, what to dobefore you hire a content
writing agency.
It would be make sure yourwebsite's built, make sure that
you have a brand.
Make sure that you.
Your aware audiences and Yeah.
Yeah, that your audiences.
Cuz what we don't want to do isdo all of that as well.
It's a case of all what we doisn't that magic?
(36:13):
you know that, that silverbullet, it's a case of you
having enough content and enoughknowledge in your industry to
say, Let's make sure that we dothis properly.
and guiding content helpssomeone go from complete
beginner, to intermediate, tothen expert.
Like I'm fully aware of exactlywhat you do.
Yeah, and I've done some thingsleading into this conversation
so that by, by the time theyspeak to you on that call,
(36:35):
they're ready.
I.
The calls, like these are theshortest calls cuz they've done
so much education.
and we once signed someone upfor a project that was worth
over 10,000 with a 21 minutephone call because we had so
much content leading up to thatpoint that when they spoke to
us, we didn't have to talk, wedidn't have to say anything.
They'd already consumed so muchcontent, they'd already leveled
(36:57):
up and leveled up so that theywere.
At the exact perfect stage tohire us, and that's what guiding
content can help with.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like
Isar Meitis (37:05):
this a lot.
I think one thing that's, veryimportant about this kind of
content, probably all of them,but this kind of content because
the wor that's the world I knowvery well is.
You need to communicate withthem in various different ways,
right?
So one of maybe the best ways todo guiding content is being on
podcasts.
Cuz if you, cuz what we aredoing right now, right?
(37:27):
We're sharing what you guys aredoing.
We're sharing your expertise ina very clear, detailed,
structured way that peopleconsume our, oh my God, this
makes perfect sense to me.
Which can then guide them toread your blog and follow you on
YouTube or whatever else youpost content.
But all I'm saying is having.
Your content in multiplebuckets, especially this kind of
(37:49):
content.
So some of it can live more onyour website, some of it can be
more in emails, but this kind ofcontent really tells people why
they should pick specific thingsand what considerations they
need to have, which may or mayneed, may or may not lead them
to you.
Which sounds tricky, but it goesback to your beginning of.
If it's not leading to me, Iactually don't want to work with
(38:11):
you.
Yeah.
so I think it's perfect.
I really like the concept.
next one, process,
Martin (38:16):
sorry, podcasts.
I just wanna talk on that causeI completely agree with you.
podcasts and various othercontent avenues are wonderful,
especially when it comes toguiding content and repelling
people.
Because one of the things wetalk about are, What about if
somebody doesn't consume yourcontent before speaking to you?
There's this kind of, sometimespeople say, there's a massive
(38:37):
gaping hole in this concept,because if someone just picks up
the phone and speaks to me, ourbooks are calling my calendar
and they've not consumed anycontent, then what are we gonna
do?
It's completely, irrelevant.
we call these people contentdodgers.
they just wanna speak to you andthey don't, take the time to
consume the content.
And the reality is this is wherewe have to, ground everything to
a halt.
And in the email when they send,we wanna book a call with you.
(39:00):
We have a very specific wordingpattern that we want to use.
And we, hopefully your listenerswill be able to implement this
as well, which is, let's jump ona call, I'm free at this time,
and we say we'd love to speak toyou on call.
it'd be really interesting tospeak to you about the project
and what's involved before we dothat.
I want you to consume, I wantyou to read these three
(39:20):
articles.
I want you to listen to thisspecific podcast episode.
I want you to download this pdff report, two or three.
I want you to review our pricinginformation so that you are
aware of how much we charge whenwe work with people.
There's a few different thingsthat you can include, isn't it?
Yeah, and
Lyndsay (39:37):
it, and it sounds, I think when we explain that to
people, they think, oh my gosh,do I really have to get someone
to do that?
Will they not find me rude?
Every single time we've donethis, we've just received an
email of a huge thanks.
because if someone wants to booka call with you and you get back
to them and you say, that soundsbrilliant.
before we do that, and just tomake sure that you have all the
knowledge that you need beforeyou, work with us.
Here's our pricing.
(39:58):
Here's a great podcast episodethat describes, how to find the
right, web designer or whateverit might be.
and here's another piece ofcontent, like a bias guide or
something.
They're just incrediblythankful.
They're like, wow, this isamazing.
and it shows them actually,you're not just trying to jump
on a call to them to sell tothem.
and you are just providing hugeamounts of value.
so you look great, which isalways really nice, but it's a
(40:21):
way of Yeah.
Stopping people from absorbingyour time that haven't, perhaps,
haven't, consumed any of yourcontent before.
Yeah,
Martin (40:27):
that's a little bit of a velvet rope as well.
people are more excited aboutspeaking to you and they
absolutely.
Cherish that time.
Yeah.
Because you have said, wait,before you give me money.
I just want you to make surethat this is right for you.
Isar Meitis (40:42):
No, I think it's brilliant and for all the
reasons that you mentioned.
I'll say just one thing thatrelates to this is if you.
Make sure.
So I, you know what, I'll phraseit a different way.
I, a guy that ended up being mybusiness partner, before we
became business partner, startedusing, so he was on my podcast.
And just going back to what yousaid, he started using this
(41:04):
interview.
He said, this became my businesscard.
Like when people wanted to workwith me, I said, okay, go check.
Go listen to this.
Yeah.
If you still want to talk to meand work with me afterwards,
gimme a call.
If not, okay, no problem.
And if you find.
That one, two pieces of contentthat really tell your story in
the best way, all aspects of it.
(41:24):
And it could be, 32nd video onTikTok.
Probably not, but it could be onthe right cases.
Could be a blog post, could bean article you wrote on somebody
else's, platform.
Could be anything, but thatreally tells your story well.
And you can now use that as thefilter, then you really make
people's lives, very easy.
(41:44):
And we even done this on ourwebsite.
We literally had a section onour website pretty close to the
top, said, you shouldn't workwith us if, and then you're not
gonna miss that if it's onsomebody's homepage.
Because then going back to yourrepelling content, I wanna take
the next three things and kindabundle them together because I
think they go together, right?
The process, the culture, andthe opinion.
(42:04):
Yeah.
Are more of, let me tell you whoI am and who we are versus here
is how we do business.
Am I correct?
Lyndsay (42:13):
Yeah, definitely.
Yes.
Yeah.
So very simply, process contentis the process of how you work.
And the reason this works reallywell is if you have a very
specific way of working andsomeone doesn't fit in with that
way, maybe they need somethingdone tomorrow and you're like,
no, cuz I ha I take eight weeks,then that's not gonna work.
And it just prevents that.
and, it also prevents that kindof, By remorse really when
(42:36):
someone starts working with you,and they don't know what's going
on, that can be very scary, forsomeone.
so that's when you start gettingemails going, where are we up to
with this?
Or what happens next in theprocess?
If you ever get those kind ofthings, like what's the next
step in this process?
Or what's, what do I need to donext?
What do you need from me?
That's clear indicator that youneed to create that kind of
content that's outlined yourprocesses there and then culture
(42:58):
and opinion content are quitesimilar, aren't they?
Martin (42:59):
Yeah.
they are, everything within thecontent fortress is linked and
you use various differentcontent and intertwine it.
but culture, content and opinioncontent is born from your
experiences the same way thatprocess content is in sales,
content is, it's a, it's bornfrom conversations.
And I think the entire thing isreally only possible if you're
(43:21):
having conversations withclients and you're trying to
carve out a content fortress,before you've started your
business, for instance.
It's not really gonna work.
and that's why it's importantthat opinion, content and
culture, content for us to putour brand online and for us to
say we believe in this being ourwebsite, we believe in this
being our colors and our stylesand the language we use.
(43:43):
We have to have a clearlydefined value and vision for our
business.
And sometimes that means havinga strong opinion and talking
about it like, I'm frustrated bythese SEO companies doing this
thing cuz it's not good, it'snot good for the industry and
it's gonna cost people money.
That's good for culture andbuilding your overall, the
feeling around your brand.
(44:04):
But it's also great becausepeople will latch onto it and
say, this person's real.
They've got an opinion.
It's not another facelessorganization.
It's not just another blogwriter who's just writing
content because they're toldwhat to write.
But it makes everything elseeasier or unnecessary.
for instance, the reason that wecan carve out the perfect
product and, package it up andmake it so that it's very
(44:25):
simple, is because we've donethis ourselves.
We know the kind of clients wewanna attract.
We know the kind of business wewanna run.
We've just packaged everythingup to say, this is what we would
recommend if we spent 45 minuteson a call with you.
And the only way that we can dothat is from producing content
that lives and breathes into theculture that we have and the
(44:46):
idea that we have for ourbusiness and brand.
But by having some opinions inthere as well and getting people
to understand that we genuinelydo care.
and calling out things that wedon't like.
It just builds that momentum andthat energy around our brand,
which then attracts our idealclient.
So it sounds really, everythingup until this point sounds very
practical and specific.
(45:06):
if somebody wants a prize, writean article, record a video,
whereas this is the kind of theculture, content and opinion.
Content seems more vague andfluffy.
it's just becoming more andmore.
Important.
Even some, sometimes moreimportant than everything else,
which is when I land on yourwebsite, when I read a piece of
content, do I get a goodimpression of who you are and
(45:28):
who you're not?
And that's what content andculture.
Content and having some opinionscan really help you achieve it.
Makes everything else easier,like packaging up your products,
like charging a premium price.
If you have that nailed, you canreally
Lyndsay (45:40):
do a lot.
Yeah, there's a reason we don'tattract People that believe in
hustle culture and waking up at5:00 AM and going to sleep at
1:00 AM and working un expectingemails on weekends and things
like that.
Because the way we come acrossand we are very family
orientated and so people, wedon't ever attract those kind of
people, because that, that comesacross in everything that we do
in our culture and our valuesand things like that.
(46:01):
And so you do end up attractingvery similar kind of, people
with similar values to you ifyou produce that kind of
Martin (46:07):
content.
Yeah.
and just on that point as well,I think it's really important to
say, and Lin Lindsay mentionedthis at the start of the
episode, which is, we know thisfrom our audience because we
speak to them a lot, but we alsorecently did this survey, which
is, a report of how otherbusinesses have had to deal with
clients.
So you've had to deal withconcerns and deal with problems,
(46:28):
like you mentioned, getting upearly then, From this report
that we did this survey, andwe'll send you a link after it,
but it's the statistics abouthow many people are affected by
clients because they don't havethis fortress in place because
they're not producing enoughcontent, they're not getting
that the brand out there.
And then, and I think it wasseven out of 10 people have lost
(46:48):
sleep due to difficult clients,which is just.
Frightening.
Just genuinely we were shockedby that one.
And there's lots of otherthings, like Lindsay mentioned
before, like 84% of people havehad a difficult client and there
was, a boatload of other statsthat really surprised us.
And this is why we're, if wesound passionate, this is
because we dealt with this, wedealt with stressful clients and
we needed to do this.
(47:09):
And clearly from the recentreport we've done, other people
are feeling the same way.
Yeah.
so it is important that you,it's,
Lyndsay (47:15):
it's an example that content actually is an example
of culture content, Hasabsolutely nothing to do When we
created this report that hasnothing to do with what we sell,
which is content marketing.
however, people have got intouch with us, to work with us,
from the book and from this kindof things because this is what
we talk about.
These are our values.
We want to help businesses leadless stressful lives.
(47:39):
business owners lead lessstressful lives and they're very
similar to that, and they reallylean into that and they're like,
oh my gosh, you've actuallyjust, said what I've been
feeling all this time.
and that is what gets peoplereally passionate and really
wanting to work with us.
It's that kind of content that.
They really connect with.
Isar Meitis (47:55):
Yeah.
at the end of the day, peopleare looking for unique point of
view or unique point of view onthe market or unique point of
view on life or unique point ofview on whatever topic they're
struggling with.
And if you can give them thatagain, like everything else you
talked about, it's either gonnaattract them or they say, I
disagree and I don't wanna workwith this guy because he's an
idiot.
Which is still fine cuz youprobably don't wanna work with
that guy or gal.
(48:15):
Martin Lindsay, this wasphenomenal.
Like really, obviously it's notthe first time you're doing this
and you understand your stuffand you really have.
Very good reasoning and a veryclear breakdown.
So it's not just, oh, you gottacreate content or you gotta
create this kind of content.
It's very well structured andvery well explained.
I really appreciate the time andI really appreciate your sharing
(48:37):
the whole process with us.
Thank you so much.
Martin (48:40):
You're very welcome.
Thank you.
That's very nice.
Really appreciate it.
And yeah, we just love thisstuff, as you can probably tell.
I can't, you can talk for hours.
Isar Meitis (48:49):
Awesome.
Thank you guys.
Thank you again.
Lyndsay (48:52):
Much.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
Hello and welcome to the Business Growth
Accelerator.
This is Isar Meitis, your host,and today we're going to talk
about marketing and morespecifically about content
marketing.
And the goal of marketing is toattract and nurture clients.
That's why marketing exists Andcontent is the tool that a lot
of people use to walk peoplethrough the know, trust.
(00:20):
Journey.
So that's like a given andeverybody knows that.
But the question is how do youcreate really good content that
truly attracts the right people?
And like my guests today, say,as importantly, repel the wrong
people.
And that's an interestingconcept by itself.
So my guests today are LindsayCambridge and Martin Hunt Batch
and who own and run JammyDigital.
(00:43):
It's a multi six figure contentmarketing agency.
And they, what they say is it'sfor people who are not afraid to
stand out, which I think isbrilliant.
And if you look at theircontent, it's really cool.
It's really unique.
Their entire website looks likea cartoonish, kind of thing,
which again, very different,which you'll see from there
very.
(01:04):
Positive, vibrant vibe reallyshows who they are and again,
attracts the right people andprobably repels the people who
are, don't, dive into that.
So they definitely walk the walkand not just talk the talk.
And we're going to, they're alsothe authors of.
A book called The ContentFortress, and today we're going
to talk about the eight pillarsthat put together a content
(01:25):
fortress to be a strongfortress.
Why the hell do you need that?
And why is that vital to thesuccess of your business?
(02:32):
So Lindsay and Martin, welcometo the Business Growth
Accelerator.
Martin (02:36):
Thanks so much for having us.
We're really excited.
Thank.
Amazing
Isar Meitis (02:40):
intro.
Awesome.
Thank you.
I've worked on that.
Let's really start with why.
So in before diving into what isthe pillar pillars and how to
put them together, what is thecontent fortress and why
Martin (02:55):
the hell do I need one?
I.
Yeah, so the content Fortresswas born from necessity,
actually.
so when we were running a sortof general marketing agency, web
design, logo, logos, branding,we found that we were attracting
lots of, Kind of clients who weweren't the right fit for us,
(03:16):
they'd get in touch.
They'd either not be right, nothave the budget, maybe they'd be
too demanding.
Maybe they'd just not be at aplace in their business that
they needed our help, and wewere finding that we're spending
an awful lot of time speaking tothese people.
Filter in through the good leadsfrom the bad leads.
And then at the end, we just gota little bit tired with the
(03:37):
effort, the time and energy ittook to get somebody to sign up
with us.
so we realized that we neededto, it's a good place to be
where we're getting leads andinquiries.
A lot of businesses.
A struggle with that, and wehave always been a big fan of
content and creating content inorder to attract traffic, leads
and sales.
So that was working for us.
What wasn't working was the kindof clients that got in touch and
(03:59):
wanted to work with us.
So we just decided to go down a,an avenue of using content to
appeal to our ideal customersand, and as a byproduct, repel
the people that really weren'tthe right fit and.
From doing this and committingto it, we were really able to
transform our business, wasn't
Lyndsay (04:20):
we?
Yeah, definitely.
And then part of the big problemwas, is when we were attracting
anyone and everyone, it's notjust speaking to the wrong
people, we actually, took onsome of the wrong people as
clients.
and that can anyone who'sexperienced that, we've actually
done some of our own research onthis.
And, I think about.
84% of people have had adifficult client within the last
(04:40):
year.
we've researched over 500business owners who explained
this, their businesses.
And anyone who's listening,who's experienced that, knows
how much time it can absorb inyour business and how much money
that can actually cost you.
not just from your, financialperspective and the time in your
business, but also your mentalhealth as well.
It can really have an impact.
so actually, prevent.
(05:02):
Presenting bad clients is a verygood, decision to make in your
business.
And, as a b a nice byproduct, itactually attracts the right
Martin (05:09):
ones too.
Isar Meitis (05:11):
I love that.
I wanna relate to two differentthings that you said because I
think they're really important.
one is one of maybe my mostsuccessful podcast episodes,
which actually I was a guest onsomebody else's podcast and he
took off, so I asked her torelease it on my podcast as well
is called You Want Less Leads.
And people are like, what?
No, I don't want less leads.
I want more leads.
I'm like, no, you want the leastamount of leads that will make
(05:34):
the most amount of money for youbecause all the others are a
waste of resources.
You're wasting marketingresources, you're wasting sales
resources, you're wasting time,you're wasting money, and so you
really want the least amount ofleads.
That will convert because allthe rest is just a waste.
And once you get into thatmindset and you figure out how
can I, and really I think whatyou have is the holy grail,
(05:55):
which is how can I tweak mycontent Yeah.
To do things.
One is attract really my exacttarget audience, so all the rest
are just not gonna fill up theform to talk to me because they
know I won't be able to solvethe problem.
And the other half, which Iliterally haven't heard, Anybody
do before.
And I really like the concept ishow do I repel?
(06:17):
So not just I'm trying toattract very specific people.
I wanna make it very clear topeople who are not within my
niche audience that I don'twanna work with you.
Yes.
So I really think it'sfantastic.
Yeah.
let's dive right in.
so I think the concept is clear.
What are the eight pillars?
Let's go through them one by oneand figure out why.
(06:39):
Each of them are necessary andhow to actually create it in the
most
Martin (06:44):
effective way.
Yeah, no problem.
So I'll go through the pillarsfirst of all, so that you can
get an understanding of they'reall, how they all work and
compliment each other.
so the first one is repellingcontent.
certain types of, so that's thebeginning.
The beginning.
That's the beginning,absolutely.
and it was quite deliberatebecause if you get into the
rhythm of creating the otherkind of content first, then
(07:06):
you're going to attract lots ofnew leads and inquiries because
of the, the concept.
So it is important that you havea mindset of repelling before
you do anything, and who it isfrom your previous clients, who
you want to repel and who youwanna attract.
And that's why it's the firstone.
and to compliment that,obviously we have attracting
content.
So there are certain businessowners out there that have
(07:27):
people they wanna reach, butcurrently they, that they're not
reaching them for whateverreason.
And again, we can explore moreabout that.
We also have sales content,which is content you can create
in order to pull people in rightnow and, and sell your products
and services.
And we've got pricing content,which talks about pricing within
your services, products andservices to make things really
(07:48):
transparent.
And then we also have processcontent, which talks about the
processes that you use withinyour organization.
We have guiding content, whichis used to pre-qualify people
and get them and their mindsetready to work with you, which is
an interesting concept I don'tsee a lot of people talk about.
And then we have opinioncontent.
Which is about you being moreopen about your opinions and
(08:11):
having something that you canstand for.
And then culture, content, whichis really how you can make
people fall in love with you asan organization and have people,
tripping over themselves wantingto work with you.
and while obviously we canexplore all
Lyndsay (08:25):
of that.
Yeah, definitely.
And he always does those onesbecause I'm guaranteed to forget
one of them.
Isar Meitis (08:33):
Awesome.
Really, let's really start goingone by one and talk about what
is the actual content you put inthere, how you figure it out.
What kind of content is it?
Is it written?
Is it video?
Is it blog post?
Is it like, what kind of contentdo you generate?
And maybe even the relevantdistribution channels for each
one.
And then I think we'll coverlike the whole gamut of what
(08:56):
people need to understand andlike you suggested, let's start
with repelling content.
What is repelling content andhow the hell do I know exactly
who am I trying to repel andwhat's gonna repel them?
Lyndsay (09:09):
Yeah.
so repelling content is the mostsimple, but other also the most
therapeutic content that you'llever make in your life.
And it's essentially contentthat tells people exactly who
you don't want to work with andwho you aren't the right fit
for.
And there's two types of peoplereally that you want to repel.
there's people that.
Generally aren't very nicepeople, that are treat you like
(09:32):
an employee, say, or, don'trespect your time and expertise.
Maybe they're rude andunfortunately they are few and
far between those people, butyou actively do want to repel
them.
and the second type are actuallyusually very nice people.
they'll pay on time, they'lltalk to you respectfully, but
they're not quite ready yet foryour products and services.
(09:54):
so we like to actually callthese people damsel in distress.
and I realize that's a termwe've actually had more male
damsels in distress in ourbusiness than females.
However, this is what we like tocall them because essentially
they are very needy.
They require a lot of your time,and energy.
and you have to spend a lot oftime communicating with them.
(10:15):
so to give you an example, inour business when we did web
design in our business, we hada, Woman who was made redundant
from work and she had thisredundancy money and she wanted
to set up a business.
so she, she was really excitedto work with us.
She was really lovely.
and she gave us some money tobuild her a website, but because
she'd never built a businessbefore, we became her business
(10:37):
mentor, so we were talking toabout had sel a business
address.
Her how to get a business logo.
Oh, get a logo.
We were talking to her about allsorts of things.
the millions of questions thatyou have when you set up a
business and you're firststarting out.
So that absorbs so much of ourtime.
And when her website went live,she was asking why she wasn't
getting sales straight away andand it was she
Martin (10:57):
that they will come.
That's,
Lyndsay (10:58):
yeah.
And we felt terrible cause shealmost had this expectation of,
What?
why?
and it felt really bad for usbecause, we thought, isn't it
obvious, but actually it's notto someone first starting out.
so we wrote a piece of contentthat said why new businesses
shouldn't invest thousands ofpounds in a website.
Even if they have that money,they should test out their ideas
(11:19):
first.
They should get to understandthe market, all the things that
you should do, in your businessstarting out.
and we wrote that so it wouldprevent that problem from ever
happening and again, in ourbusiness.
Martin (11:29):
Yeah, exactly.
And, and it's, that's, so thatkind of covers like the damals,
the people that aren't the rightfit for your business.
but we found that quite a lot ofrepelling content would also
come from frustrations, whichis, if someone gets in touch and
like that's a frustration, whichis if that customer.
as an example, bond us up andsaid, I'm not getting any sales.
(11:50):
I'm not happy with this.
Then that led to another pieceof content that would be reasons
your website isn't successful,which we published both of these
articles.
Because of a direct situation.
So quite often what we'll do iswe'll write a piece of content
either for our business, offer aclient, cuz we write content
these days, that we wouldessentially say, What are all
(12:11):
the reasons that you might failat this thing?
Even if you're paying someone,you don't have the right
product.
You don't, you're not promotingthe content out there, you're
not doing these things becauseit's important that we educate,
our, the close audience, but thepeople who might think about
getting in touch with us, wewant them to be aware.
If you are coming to us andthinking this is a, a magic, a
(12:31):
ma, a magic pill, and it's justgoing to change everything, it
still might not be right for youto hire us.
And what happens is when wecreate this content and we say,
don't hire us if you are this,it sounds really, scary, and
potentially even arrogant.
But actually throughout thecontent we say, here's why you
shouldn't hire us because ofthis thing.
(12:51):
However, if you do this and youdo this, then great, as long as
But it's just a way for us totake that kind of, next step of
success and say, be aware thatthis needs to happen in order
for you to get this result.
and I think it just comes acrossas more transparent and even if
people decide not to work withus, which is the point of the
content at this point.
Who's to say that they might notbe in six months after we've
(13:13):
educated them.
I love
Isar Meitis (13:15):
that.
I wanna touch on summarize thispoint.
The goal of this content is tobe very clear on.
If you want the prayerrequisites people need to have
in place and the stuff they needto be willing to do in order for
them to see results if and whenthey work with you.
Yes.
And so by doing so, you're aproviding them some guidance on
(13:37):
if you don't have, A way todistribute the content or
promote the content, then don'thire us to create content for
you, because it's not going towork if you don't have any
marketing channels.
you may have a website, but thewebsite is worthless because
nobody's gonna know it exists,so don't spend the money.
So I love it.
I think it's both an educationalchannel to an extent as well as
(13:58):
a very clear, hoop that peoplehave to jump through in order to
say, okay, I knowingly.
Jump to the other side of thisbecause I got all the ticks in
all the boxes.
that they said that I need tohave.
Awesome.
next is what kind of content?
Attracting
Martin (14:12):
content.
Attracting content.
Attracting content, okay.
Exactly.
So this is a really interestingone because throughout business
you naturally pivot.
You pivot, you might, starttaking on different kind of
clients in different industries,in different niches.
And sometimes you don't wannahave to start from scratch.
You actually just want to startproducing some content to say,
(14:33):
oh, by the way, we serve thiskind of person.
We serve this kind of client.
and in the past we've, we foundit difficult initially to
attract more corporate clientswith bigger budgets.
So what we've done in the pastis produce content, when we're
only working with small localbusinesses.
We wrote a piece of content iswhy, larger businesses want to
(14:56):
hire us to build their websiteand how this kind of client
might benefit from working witha small logo design.
You can imagine how it wouldapply, and we just fleshed out
that content to say.
Essentially you list all of thebenefits of why somebody, what
somebody would get after workingwith you and loop it into who it
(15:16):
is you want to attract.
it's a really powerful onebecause it goes against the
repelling content, and a lot ofthe times it's about just
communicating what products andservices you have.
results that you've got.
You can include results and casestudies of examples to get
people to understand and tobelieve that you can serve them,
you can help them, and you cando that through educational
Lyndsay (15:37):
content.
Yeah, definitely.
and, this worked really well forus actually because we've
always, we've grown now, but thetime we were a very small team.
There was just the two of us,and we attracted some very big
Clients, that would normally gofor a much bigger agency because
we created that kind of contentthat really spoke to them and
said,"yes, you might think thata smaller team might not work
(15:57):
for you, but if you've veryexperienced, having account
managers that change all thetime and not actually speaking
to the owner of the business,you won't have that with us."
And you really tackle theproblems that someone has had in
the past, maybe with someonedifferent, and that's where you
can position yourself as the,the alternative and this kind of
content is really great for kindof small businesses and
freelancers that wanna attract,maybe bigger businesses.
(16:19):
and they can create somethingthat really gets in front of
them and speaks to the problemsthat they're having and how
maybe they can help and howthey're different.
so it does re work really
Martin (16:28):
well.
Yeah.
As an example, one of ourclients who runs a martial arts
school, he decided to, ratherthan just create content about
the the reasons your, childrenshould take part in our class or
how to do a roundhouse kick.
he produced content, which isabout how, a martial arts helps
with bullying or preventbullying.
(16:50):
So it attracted an entiredifferent parent demographic
that we're interested insafeguard in their child in that
sense, rather than, I want tokick, I want to learn, I want to
be a power ranger or whatever.
It was a way for him to to carveout a line in the sand and say,
we are not gonna teach yourchild how to be a black belt and
be a cobra kai.
It's a case of here's No, thatsounds cool.
(17:13):
but it's a case of just saying,look and we're open to this new
kind of person.
and by really thinking about theindividual benefits of what it
is that you offer as a serviceprovider within your products,
the key benefits that peoplemight not be aware of, that's a
really.
Good task to write down all ofthose hidden benefits that
people don't initially think of,and then use content to explain
(17:36):
what those, what they are.
Brilliant.
Isar Meitis (17:40):
I wanna touch and highlight one very specific and
important point, and then I wantto give a twist on this that I
literally heard this morningthat blew my mind.
the first thing is, in order tomake all of this successful, you
really need to understand whoyour target audience is.
Because you need to understandwhat's gonna attract them.
Meaning what are the problemsthat you can solve for them
better than other people, whichis everything that you're
(18:01):
saying.
and so it's all about reallyunderstanding who.
Can you best serve in the mostefficient way and what makes
them tick?
So that's kinda one thing thatI'm hearing again and again in
the background.
The really cool thing that Iheard this morning is there's a
guy, he's a code writer in Ithink Pakistan or somewhere
around Indiana.
(18:21):
I don't wanna insult anybody ofcalling all these people the
same thing, but I don't rememberwhere he is from.
And his thing is writing appsfor Shopify.
So that's his business.
He writes apps for people whohas shops and he.
Used chat, G p T.
So he wrote his own app thatwent and scanned, I think a
hundred thousand Shopify stores.
(18:43):
What they're selling, howthey're selling, what's their
price thing, what languagethey're using, what kind of
audience they have, how many,how much, like all the data that
he could scrape.
And then he had Chachi PT go toeach and every one and write a
personalized message on whatapp.
That could help them sellbetter.
(19:04):
So going from a persona thatyou're talking about to a
person, because the tools arecapable of doing this today.
And the tool that he built, didthe scraping, wrote the thing,
so invented an app for them andsend them an email.
Yeah.
And then he had out of a hundredthousand emails sent, he had
about.
(19:24):
15% that actually replied backand said, oh my God, this is
awesome.
The crazy thing is he didn'thave a clue what he offered.
He paid up those apps, and butthe reason I'm saying all of
this is we live in an era rightnow where you can go a step
further.
With actually less work.
(19:46):
Yeah.
So you can have a machine do theresearch for you on everything
you want to know on your client,and then go mer more
personalized.
So it's not a persona anymore,but it's this company.
So like an A b M play, butwithout having a big Ab M team.
Brilliant.
let's go next.
So this was attracting content.
The next one, if I remembercorrectly, was pricing or maybe
sales.
I
Martin (20:06):
may be confusing.
Yeah, sales content.
So sales content is my favoritepersonally.
Lindsay loves repelling content.
I love sales content.
Sales content is the easiest wayfor you to get customers now.
Okay, so what that means is whenyou have products and services,
sometimes we have to think aboutreally interesting ways to
(20:28):
promote them.
do I do a launch?
Do I, reach out to like JVs anddo I get them to send us
clients?
And it can all feel a little bitoverbearing and scary.
so sales content.
Really sidesteps that which isit's content, so it's helpful,
it's content, so you can shareit on social media, you can
(20:49):
repurpose it to Instagramcarousels.
You can do all of that goodstuff, but it clearly
articulates what your productsand services are and who you
help in the form of blogcontent, or we used it in the
form of blog content.
We've had some clients do asYouTube videos or as in a
podcast for instance, there'splenty of examples where people
(21:09):
use this kind of content.
But it's quite an interestingcuz it has a helpful edge and
this is the important thing.
So rather than you copy andpaste your sales page onto your
blog, that's not what we'retalking about.
It's much a case of.
As an example, when you launch anew service, you could write and
everything you need to knowabout our new service, and it
(21:30):
essentially is, people love FAQsand it's more like an FAQ than
it would be a sales page.
You could break down absolutelyeverything from that particular
content because, nobodycomplains when you create too
much content about your productsand services.
And the reality is that.
We live in a time whereeverybody is preaching about
providing valuable content.
(21:51):
So there's just so many articlesor videos or YouTube or podcast
episodes out there, which is thetop 10 ways to do this, how to
land a job in three steps, andit's all very content value
heavy.
So when someone comes out withan article and says, I've got a
new service, or I'm running anew event, or I've got a new,
SaaS product.
(22:11):
By creating this piece ofcontent, it's actually really
refreshing to actually say,here's everything you need to
know about what we're doing.
Because people like to knowbehind the scenes, people love
behind the scenes content, andthis is a hybrid between a sales
page, an F faq, and a behind thescenes piece of content.
And that's just.
One piece of content that youcan create for one service.
There's just so many more,
Lyndsay (22:31):
isn't there?
Yeah, there's there's so muchmore.
It's really thinking aboutwhenever you make a change to
your product and service forwhatever reason, there's always
an opportunity in there toactually highlight that to your
audience.
So for every time we increaseour prices, and people find this
very bizarre, but every time weincrease our prices, we shout
about it.
So we create a piece of contentcalled Why are we increasing our
(22:52):
prices?
And.
The, we, I mean we monitor thison our emails and the click
through rate to that is insane.
And essentially what you'redoing in that piece of content
is you are listing the amazingthings about what you do in your
service.
That is all you are doing.
there's an opportunity in thereif you want.
You can say, you can get in atmy prices now, or you don't have
(23:12):
to.
but when, whenever we producethis piece of content, it is
always performed incrediblywell.
because what you are doing isyou're getting someone to read.
All the amazing things about youin a way that they wouldn't do
and sit down generally on asales page unless they're,
really interested in workingwith you.
But, when you do it with thispiece of content, it works
incredibly well, and you can dothat with any changes in your
(23:35):
business.
or to your products andservices.
You can do that with any change.
There's always a kind of waythat you can make it really
interesting.
People find this stuff reallyinteresting.
Even, everything you need toknow about my whatever it is,
you would think.
do many people find thatinteresting?
But actually they really do.
and we know because we monitorthis on it for our clients and
ourselves.
People click on this kind ofcontent.
(23:55):
they find it really interestingto see how your business is
working, and understand moreabout it.
And it does lead to sales,
Martin (24:02):
which is really good.
Yeah, it does, especially whenyou loop this into your emails,
because a lot of the times, oneof the, one of the things that
we always tell our clients ismake sure that when you produce
content, you're emailing it toyour list, you're shouting about
it on social media.
Google love it when you've gotreal visitors on a site so that
they can see how well itperforms, how engaging it is.
(24:22):
and this is why it's soimportant to take content
sometimes.
And if you only think aboutcontent from an SEO standpoint,
I'm just gonna write lots ofcontent and hope that Google
reward me.
I.
Then you're missing out on somany other avenues because
people are at various stagesthroughout the buying process.
Maybe people are, maybe theywere looking for you last year,
but they're not searching forthat thing on Google right now,
(24:43):
but they are on your email list.
So this is why we need to belooping those people in our
audience and actually putting itin a very educational and
transparent way, like producingcontent, like why we're
increasing our prices, or whatchanges are we making to our
product and why.
Or everything you need to knowabout this product or this
(25:03):
service.
And one of the, one of myfavorite ones is, you know how
you can work with us.
This is just a remarkable pieceof content because all you're
doing is listing your services,but within the intro, you
essentially just say, Itsuddenly occurred to me that,
you might not know all of theservices that we offer, and
rather than you jump on a callwith us, we just thought, we've
(25:25):
had someone reach out to usrecently and they've asked us
what services we have to offer.
So we just realized that we'venot put this in an article.
So here you are.
Yeah, there's,
Lyndsay (25:34):
there's so many people I follow on LinkedIn.
I'm like, they say amazingstuff.
I have no idea what they do.
Yeah.
Martin (25:39):
Yeah.
I
Isar Meitis (25:41):
wanna add something really cool that you touched on
a few times that again goes backBreadcrumbs to across everything
that you're saying.
Yeah.
Is the way you produce thecontent is from actual life
lessons of things that arehappening with clients, right?
Yeah.
So why would you change yourpro, your product or your
service because, oh my God, thisis an opportunity for us to do
this because there's a demandfor our clients.
(26:02):
You write this down, you createa piece of content around it.
You had a client implementsomething.
That you have given them in adifferent unique way you have a
piece of, so one of the biggestproblems that people have is,
okay, but what do I create thecontent about?
And the easiest thing, and theway I do this is I have a
running sheet.
I use, air table, but you canuse anything like a spreadsheet
(26:23):
or a notetaking app or voicenotes.
Like I do that sometimes as wellwhen I'm driving.
just.
Every idea of stuff that comesup because a piece of content
you've seen, because somethingthat happens with a client
because something happens withinthe company, write it down and
suddenly you have a list thatyou will never, ever finish
consuming.
So just pick up the next onethat is probably gonna be the
most impactful in your eyes atthat moment and create that
(26:47):
piece of content.
Awesome.
So the next one is pricing.
After.
Yeah.
Okay.
Pricing
Martin (26:53):
content.
Pricing content.
You knew more than me then
Isar Meitis (26:56):
I took notes,
Lyndsay (27:00):
and so your pricing content is pretty much what it
says on the tin.
so it's essentially, advisingpeople all about your prices.
we are very much advocates.
For putting prices on yourwebsite and making it clear what
you charge.
Not, you don't, we don't saythat you have to be exact,
particularly if you're aservice-based industry.
(27:20):
but giving your, your people onyour website, your prospects, an
idea, at least an inkling ofaround about what you charge,
and creating content aroundthat.
so people have lots of questionsand potential objections around.
Your prices, they might wonderwhy you charge more than someone
else or why you are moreexpensive than others in your
(27:42):
industry.
That's a question that you cananswer through content.
Oh, why You're too cheap.
Martin (27:46):
Yeah.
why is it that you charge.
3000 when this other companycharged 50,000.
Lyndsay (27:51):
Yep.
And that's quite common inwebsite design, cuz that goes
from, one pound to a hundredthousand pounds.
So Yeah.
you can answer those kind ofquestions.
and obviously, things like whatcan make the price of something
go up, what can make it go down?
So for many of us, we might bedoing.
Different projects and somemight be more, costly than
others.
So you can talk about, okay, soif you are on this budget, this
(28:13):
is what you can do to reducethat.
You can, take this and this off.
Or you can use, even if you are,a B2C business, you can say you
can use this material instead ofthat material.
That, all those kind of thingsthat really help the customer
understand everything they needto know about your prices and
making them feel verycomfortable before they get in
touch with you about how muchyou charge and whether they can,
(28:34):
they,
Martin (28:35):
they can afford that.
Yeah.
And this idea came from, afriend of ours, Marcus Sheridan.
he wrote a book called They AskYou Answer, which is remarkable.
I was just looking for them and,He, he, we've tried adding our
prices to our website at timesin the past, and then we've had
feedback that he shouldn't dothat because, we don't know what
the client wants.
so we tried, we've had ourprices on and off, on and off
(28:57):
constantly.
It was only until Marcus startededucating everybody and saying,
look, there the competitors,They, if they do list their
prices on the website, thenthey, chances are, they're the
ones who are going to get thephone calls or get, because
they're being seen as moretransparent.
and I think it's just a case ofunderstanding that you don't
have to give people, likeLindsay said, the exact pricing.
(29:19):
we do now because we havepackages and we've created a
package that's perfect.
There's a, there's always apackage for someone.
but some people don't.
And the reason that's concerningis because if you don't give
people an indication to how muchyou charge, then.
five outta 10 calls, if you'relucky, might say, oh, I'm sorry.
I've just spent half an hour onthe phone with you or an hour on
(29:41):
a call, and I actually can'tafford that.
I didn't know it was going tocost this.
Therefore, you've wasted thetime.
So it does come back torepelling the people who are not
right for you and attracting thepeople who are, it just means
that whenever we send aproposal, it goes ahead.
if somebody does want to requesta pricing, even if they want
something bespoke, they can seea kind of price range on our
(30:03):
website and they can read any ofthe articles where we talk about
the prices we charge, and, Andeven if they want something
bespoke, we can make a bespokepackage for them.
We don't often do that, but, wedon't need proposals because we
talk ab We, most of the timepeople just decide, I know which
package I want, I just wannaspeak to you, ask a few final
questions, and then moveforward.
(30:24):
It just makes everything easier.
Lyndsay (30:26):
Yeah, definitely.
And if you, I just say, oh,sorry,
Isar Meitis (30:29):
go on.
No, I wanna jump in with one,two important things that come
out of this.
One is transparency.
And again, that goes back toeverything that you said.
The more transparent you are.
And I think some of the nexttopics we're gonna talk about,
like process, culture, andopinion.
I.
Are mostly transparency, likeall the other stuff was mostly
about the service, about theproduct, about the company.
This is more about, okay, who amI?
(30:51):
So the more transparent you are,the better off you are because
people understand.
But the other thing is just putyourself in the side of the
buyer.
Yeah.
And think about when you doingresearch, if you can compare,
you're not gonna just callcompany X.
You're gonna look at 20companies and then have a short
list of five, and then you'regonna compare as much as you can
(31:12):
con compare with the five.
So you don't have to do fivephone calls, you wanna do two or
maybe three.
And so if out of those 20companies, 18 are gonna show
pricing and you don't, thechances you're getting a phone
call are much smaller becauseyou're like, I don't know how
much you charge.
I have enough other options.
It's not like you're the onlyone offering these kind of
service or product.
(31:32):
The other thing that I reallylike about what you said about
what you did is how do youproductize a service?
The problem with services isthat they're hard to.
Put a price to them becauseokay, how many hours is it gonna
be?
Do you want, how many pages doyou want on your website?
How much content do you want usto produce?
Do you want us to alsodistribute the content or just
create the content?
do you like, there's so many.
(31:54):
What if questions in a servicethat's okay, just call us and
we'll figure out what you want.
And then the problem is, youhave all these conversations
that may not be productive foryou and for them.
So everybody's wasting theirtime.
But if you can productize yourservices, say, okay, here's a
bundle.
Here's another bundle, here's afifth bundle.
Here's 10 bundles that I sell,but this is what I sell.
So you pick.
(32:15):
A bucket that you fall into, andthat's very clearly states what
you're getting.
Now you understand what you'rebuying.
So I think it's another greattip on how to take something
that is less tangible and thenagain, less attractive and
potentially a waste of time, andturn it into something that is
very clear, very transparent andeasy for people to decide
whether it's for them beforethey pick up the phone or fill
(32:36):
up a form.
yeah, so this is.
Pricing.
The next, I think was guiding,am I guessing?
Yes.
Yes.
Guiding content.
Guiding content.
Okay.
So what's guiding
Martin (32:46):
content?
Lyndsay (32:47):
so guiding content is essentially where you help guide
someone, to basically make theright.
Buying decision for them.
so it's extremely helpfulcontent that, aims to not only
just promote you, but alsopromote others in your industry,
other options in your industryso that someone finds the right
(33:08):
option for them.
so we created, for example, wecreated kind of a bias.
Guide on how to find the rightweb designer.
And in that we discussed, verycheap web designers you might
want to hire to massive agenciesthat you might want to hire to,
to help you with that andeverywhere in between.
now obviously we weren't a verycheap web designer, we also went
a massive agency.
(33:29):
but we discussed those optionsand the pros and cons of those
options.
and also the pros and cons ofhiring, a team like ours.
And the aim of that really is tomake sure that the people that
come to you are the right fit.
and they fully understand whatit is that you do, the different
options out there, and the factthat, you are the perfect match
for them.
(33:50):
and this always sounds reallyscary when you say, you're
promoting are the people.
You may even promote yourcompetitors in this.
And, but what this does is itshows people that you are not
out to make.
A quick book from everyone.
You are there and you are veryspecific about who you want to
work with and who you're theright fit for.
but you're also really helpfulas well because you're trying to
help people just find the rightcompany for them.
(34:11):
so it's, it builds just a hugeamount of trust, this kind of
content and really does help alot of people.
so even if, someone actuallyuses it, and doesn't go to you
straight away.
They might do, down the line aswell, which has happened to us
quite a few times.
Yeah.
Martin (34:25):
it's about guiding them essentially to make the right
buying decision by sometimessaying, this is who we are and
it might not be the right timefor you.
there's this concept that we,refer to as, I'm trying to
remember the terminology that weuse.
It's the, it's the Troy, youknow the Trojan Horse?
Trojan Horse, yeah.
So the Trojan Horse is a case ofsomebody getting very excited
(34:49):
about working with you becausethey've read your content.
They'll love what you do.
They'll love your brand.
They'll love your business.
They'll love that you'retransparent about pricing.
All great.
But this Trojan Horse clientmight be so excited that they
say, yes, I want to work withyou before they're ready.
So this prevents that fromhappening, which is okay.
So this is where you have towhen you get a few, not red
(35:11):
flags, but a few senses thatthey're getting really excited
to wanna work with you.
And they might not be.
Thinking about it logically, itmight just be an emotional
decision, which is where guidingcontent comes in.
Very helpful.
Because when you publish it, wealways say people don't care
what you say.
They care what you publish.
And if you are prepared to say,no, we, this is important that
(35:32):
you're aware of this before youwork with us.
Cause it might not work.
And again, it does come back.
re with repelling content, butit's a case of you drawing a
line in the sand and saying,listen, it's important that we
don't jump into this, withoutunderstanding all of the moving
pieces.
So for instance, say, bur us asa content agency, the guiding
(35:52):
content would be, what to dobefore you hire a content
writing agency.
It would be make sure yourwebsite's built, make sure that
you have a brand.
Make sure that you.
Your aware audiences and Yeah.
Yeah, that your audiences.
Cuz what we don't want to do isdo all of that as well.
It's a case of all what we doisn't that magic?
(36:13):
you know that, that silverbullet, it's a case of you
having enough content and enoughknowledge in your industry to
say, Let's make sure that we dothis properly.
and guiding content helpssomeone go from complete
beginner, to intermediate, tothen expert.
Like I'm fully aware of exactlywhat you do.
Yeah, and I've done some thingsleading into this conversation
so that by, by the time theyspeak to you on that call,
(36:35):
they're ready.
I.
The calls, like these are theshortest calls cuz they've done
so much education.
and we once signed someone upfor a project that was worth
over 10,000 with a 21 minutephone call because we had so
much content leading up to thatpoint that when they spoke to
us, we didn't have to talk, wedidn't have to say anything.
They'd already consumed so muchcontent, they'd already leveled
(36:57):
up and leveled up so that theywere.
At the exact perfect stage tohire us, and that's what guiding
content can help with.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I like
Isar Meitis (37:05):
this a lot.
I think one thing that's, veryimportant about this kind of
content, probably all of them,but this kind of content because
the wor that's the world I knowvery well is.
You need to communicate withthem in various different ways,
right?
So one of maybe the best ways todo guiding content is being on
podcasts.
Cuz if you, cuz what we aredoing right now, right?
(37:27):
We're sharing what you guys aredoing.
We're sharing your expertise ina very clear, detailed,
structured way that peopleconsume our, oh my God, this
makes perfect sense to me.
Which can then guide them toread your blog and follow you on
YouTube or whatever else youpost content.
But all I'm saying is having.
Your content in multiplebuckets, especially this kind of
(37:49):
content.
So some of it can live more onyour website, some of it can be
more in emails, but this kind ofcontent really tells people why
they should pick specific thingsand what considerations they
need to have, which may or mayneed, may or may not lead them
to you.
Which sounds tricky, but it goesback to your beginning of.
If it's not leading to me, Iactually don't want to work with
(38:11):
you.
Yeah.
so I think it's perfect.
I really like the concept.
next one, process,
Martin (38:16):
sorry, podcasts.
I just wanna talk on that causeI completely agree with you.
podcasts and various othercontent avenues are wonderful,
especially when it comes toguiding content and repelling
people.
Because one of the things wetalk about are, What about if
somebody doesn't consume yourcontent before speaking to you?
There's this kind of, sometimespeople say, there's a massive
(38:37):
gaping hole in this concept,because if someone just picks up
the phone and speaks to me, ourbooks are calling my calendar
and they've not consumed anycontent, then what are we gonna
do?
It's completely, irrelevant.
we call these people contentdodgers.
they just wanna speak to you andthey don't, take the time to
consume the content.
And the reality is this is wherewe have to, ground everything to
a halt.
And in the email when they send,we wanna book a call with you.
(39:00):
We have a very specific wordingpattern that we want to use.
And we, hopefully your listenerswill be able to implement this
as well, which is, let's jump ona call, I'm free at this time,
and we say we'd love to speak toyou on call.
it'd be really interesting tospeak to you about the project
and what's involved before we dothat.
I want you to consume, I wantyou to read these three
(39:20):
articles.
I want you to listen to thisspecific podcast episode.
I want you to download this pdff report, two or three.
I want you to review our pricinginformation so that you are
aware of how much we charge whenwe work with people.
There's a few different thingsthat you can include, isn't it?
Yeah, and
Lyndsay (39:37):
it, and it sounds, I think when we explain that to
people, they think, oh my gosh,do I really have to get someone
to do that?
Will they not find me rude?
Every single time we've donethis, we've just received an
email of a huge thanks.
because if someone wants to booka call with you and you get back
to them and you say, that soundsbrilliant.
before we do that, and just tomake sure that you have all the
knowledge that you need beforeyou, work with us.
Here's our pricing.
(39:58):
Here's a great podcast episodethat describes, how to find the
right, web designer or whateverit might be.
and here's another piece ofcontent, like a bias guide or
something.
They're just incrediblythankful.
They're like, wow, this isamazing.
and it shows them actually,you're not just trying to jump
on a call to them to sell tothem.
and you are just providing hugeamounts of value.
so you look great, which isalways really nice, but it's a
(40:21):
way of Yeah.
Stopping people from absorbingyour time that haven't, perhaps,
haven't, consumed any of yourcontent before.
Yeah,
Martin (40:27):
that's a little bit of a velvet rope as well.
people are more excited aboutspeaking to you and they
absolutely.
Cherish that time.
Yeah.
Because you have said, wait,before you give me money.
I just want you to make surethat this is right for you.
Isar Meitis (40:42):
No, I think it's brilliant and for all the
reasons that you mentioned.
I'll say just one thing thatrelates to this is if you.
Make sure.
So I, you know what, I'll phraseit a different way.
I, a guy that ended up being mybusiness partner, before we
became business partner, startedusing, so he was on my podcast.
And just going back to what yousaid, he started using this
(41:04):
interview.
He said, this became my businesscard.
Like when people wanted to workwith me, I said, okay, go check.
Go listen to this.
Yeah.
If you still want to talk to meand work with me afterwards,
gimme a call.
If not, okay, no problem.
And if you find.
That one, two pieces of contentthat really tell your story in
the best way, all aspects of it.
(41:24):
And it could be, 32nd video onTikTok.
Probably not, but it could be onthe right cases.
Could be a blog post, could bean article you wrote on somebody
else's, platform.
Could be anything, but thatreally tells your story well.
And you can now use that as thefilter, then you really make
people's lives, very easy.
(41:44):
And we even done this on ourwebsite.
We literally had a section onour website pretty close to the
top, said, you shouldn't workwith us if, and then you're not
gonna miss that if it's onsomebody's homepage.
Because then going back to yourrepelling content, I wanna take
the next three things and kindabundle them together because I
think they go together, right?
The process, the culture, andthe opinion.
(42:04):
Yeah.
Are more of, let me tell you whoI am and who we are versus here
is how we do business.
Am I correct?
Lyndsay (42:13):
Yeah, definitely.
Yes.
Yeah.
So very simply, process contentis the process of how you work.
And the reason this works reallywell is if you have a very
specific way of working andsomeone doesn't fit in with that
way, maybe they need somethingdone tomorrow and you're like,
no, cuz I ha I take eight weeks,then that's not gonna work.
And it just prevents that.
and, it also prevents that kindof, By remorse really when
(42:36):
someone starts working with you,and they don't know what's going
on, that can be very scary, forsomeone.
so that's when you start gettingemails going, where are we up to
with this?
Or what happens next in theprocess?
If you ever get those kind ofthings, like what's the next
step in this process?
Or what's, what do I need to donext?
What do you need from me?
That's clear indicator that youneed to create that kind of
content that's outlined yourprocesses there and then culture
(42:58):
and opinion content are quitesimilar, aren't they?
Martin (42:59):
Yeah.
they are, everything within thecontent fortress is linked and
you use various differentcontent and intertwine it.
but culture, content and opinioncontent is born from your
experiences the same way thatprocess content is in sales,
content is, it's a, it's bornfrom conversations.
And I think the entire thing isreally only possible if you're
(43:21):
having conversations withclients and you're trying to
carve out a content fortress,before you've started your
business, for instance.
It's not really gonna work.
and that's why it's importantthat opinion, content and
culture, content for us to putour brand online and for us to
say we believe in this being ourwebsite, we believe in this
being our colors and our stylesand the language we use.
(43:43):
We have to have a clearlydefined value and vision for our
business.
And sometimes that means havinga strong opinion and talking
about it like, I'm frustrated bythese SEO companies doing this
thing cuz it's not good, it'snot good for the industry and
it's gonna cost people money.
That's good for culture andbuilding your overall, the
feeling around your brand.
(44:04):
But it's also great becausepeople will latch onto it and
say, this person's real.
They've got an opinion.
It's not another facelessorganization.
It's not just another blogwriter who's just writing
content because they're toldwhat to write.
But it makes everything elseeasier or unnecessary.
for instance, the reason that wecan carve out the perfect
product and, package it up andmake it so that it's very
(44:25):
simple, is because we've donethis ourselves.
We know the kind of clients wewanna attract.
We know the kind of business wewanna run.
We've just packaged everythingup to say, this is what we would
recommend if we spent 45 minuteson a call with you.
And the only way that we can dothat is from producing content
that lives and breathes into theculture that we have and the
(44:46):
idea that we have for ourbusiness and brand.
But by having some opinions inthere as well and getting people
to understand that we genuinelydo care.
and calling out things that wedon't like.
It just builds that momentum andthat energy around our brand,
which then attracts our idealclient.
So it sounds really, everythingup until this point sounds very
practical and specific.
(45:06):
if somebody wants a prize, writean article, record a video,
whereas this is the kind of theculture, content and opinion.
Content seems more vague andfluffy.
it's just becoming more andmore.
Important.
Even some, sometimes moreimportant than everything else,
which is when I land on yourwebsite, when I read a piece of
content, do I get a goodimpression of who you are and
(45:28):
who you're not?
And that's what content andculture.
Content and having some opinionscan really help you achieve it.
Makes everything else easier,like packaging up your products,
like charging a premium price.
If you have that nailed, you canreally
Lyndsay (45:40):
do a lot.
Yeah, there's a reason we don'tattract People that believe in
hustle culture and waking up at5:00 AM and going to sleep at
1:00 AM and working un expectingemails on weekends and things
like that.
Because the way we come acrossand we are very family
orientated and so people, wedon't ever attract those kind of
people, because that, that comesacross in everything that we do
in our culture and our valuesand things like that.
(46:01):
And so you do end up attractingvery similar kind of, people
with similar values to you ifyou produce that kind of
Martin (46:07):
content.
Yeah.
and just on that point as well,I think it's really important to
say, and Lin Lindsay mentionedthis at the start of the
episode, which is, we know thisfrom our audience because we
speak to them a lot, but we alsorecently did this survey, which
is, a report of how otherbusinesses have had to deal with
clients.
So you've had to deal withconcerns and deal with problems,
(46:28):
like you mentioned, getting upearly then, From this report
that we did this survey, andwe'll send you a link after it,
but it's the statistics abouthow many people are affected by
clients because they don't havethis fortress in place because
they're not producing enoughcontent, they're not getting
that the brand out there.
And then, and I think it wasseven out of 10 people have lost
(46:48):
sleep due to difficult clients,which is just.
Frightening.
Just genuinely we were shockedby that one.
And there's lots of otherthings, like Lindsay mentioned
before, like 84% of people havehad a difficult client and there
was, a boatload of other statsthat really surprised us.
And this is why we're, if wesound passionate, this is
because we dealt with this, wedealt with stressful clients and
we needed to do this.
(47:09):
And clearly from the recentreport we've done, other people
are feeling the same way.
Yeah.
so it is important that you,it's,
Lyndsay (47:15):
it's an example that content actually is an example
of culture content, Hasabsolutely nothing to do When we
created this report that hasnothing to do with what we sell,
which is content marketing.
however, people have got intouch with us, to work with us,
from the book and from this kindof things because this is what
we talk about.
These are our values.
We want to help businesses leadless stressful lives.
(47:39):
business owners lead lessstressful lives and they're very
similar to that, and they reallylean into that and they're like,
oh my gosh, you've actuallyjust, said what I've been
feeling all this time.
and that is what gets peoplereally passionate and really
wanting to work with us.
It's that kind of content that.
They really connect with.
Isar Meitis (47:55):
Yeah.
at the end of the day, peopleare looking for unique point of
view or unique point of view onthe market or unique point of
view on life or unique point ofview on whatever topic they're
struggling with.
And if you can give them thatagain, like everything else you
talked about, it's either gonnaattract them or they say, I
disagree and I don't wanna workwith this guy because he's an
idiot.
Which is still fine cuz youprobably don't wanna work with
that guy or gal.
(48:15):
Martin Lindsay, this wasphenomenal.
Like really, obviously it's notthe first time you're doing this
and you understand your stuffand you really have.
Very good reasoning and a veryclear breakdown.
So it's not just, oh, you gottacreate content or you gotta
create this kind of content.
It's very well structured andvery well explained.
I really appreciate the time andI really appreciate your sharing
(48:37):
the whole process with us.
Thank you so much.
Martin (48:40):
You're very welcome.
Thank you.
That's very nice.
Really appreciate it.
And yeah, we just love thisstuff, as you can probably tell.
I can't, you can talk for hours.
Isar Meitis (48:49):
Awesome.
Thank you guys.
Thank you again.
Lyndsay (48:52):
Much.
Thank you so much.
Thank you.
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