October 20, 2025 • 27 mins
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Why do we keep trusting the loudest person in the room instead of the most capable one? We seem drawn to the tall, bold, confident, and the loud, but not always to the wise. I invited Maria Brinck, founder of Zynergy International, and author of The Leadership We Need, to help me unpack this uncomfortable truth.
Maria argues we have accepted being led by bullies and that our subconscious bias toward dominance keeps toxic, outdated leadership patterns alive. We explore what happens when masculine energy takes over the world, why empathy is often mistaken for weakness, and what it really takes to build the kind of leadership the future demands
🎙️ This is a powerful, eye-opening conversation for anyone who feels frustrated with the way leaders are chosen today — and who wants to be part of creating change.
👉 Learn more about Maria and her book The Leadership We Need: A New Mindset for a Brighter Future
🎧 Listen now and discover what it takes to build the leadership the future demands.
👉 Subscribe for more conversations with visionary thinkers shaping tomorrow’s world.
💬 Share this episode with someone who’s ready to lead differently.
Other Resources Mentioned:
Website | LinkedIn | The Leadership We Need: A New Mindset for a Brighter Future
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Maria Brinck (00:00):
We are not being led by the greatest asset of
(00:04):
humanity today, not even close.
Our survival truly depends onthat we get this right. We are
subconsciously drawn to theseleaders, loud, confident,
instead of the truly capable tolead, it's easier to go to
something familiar, even thoughwe know it's not good for us, we
(00:29):
can do so much better than we'reseeing today in the world. We
need to balance the feminine andthe masculine equally. You need
to be bold and humble, decisiveand inclusive.
BEATE CHELETTE (00:54):
Hello, Maria, welcome. What makes your blood
boil when it comes to today's
Maria Brinck (01:02):
leadership, wow.
Beate, thank you for having me.
What makes my blood boil is thefact that we are not being led
by the greatest asset ofhumanity today, not even close.
And that is sad, becausehumanity have so much more to
offer. We are falling short ofour human potential, and it
(01:25):
hurts, and it I'm sure it hurtsa lot of people right now.
BEATE CHELETTE (01:29):
It certainly is hurting a lot of people. So I'm
gonna have to, like, jump rightin, sort of the sensitive issue
here, because we know thatthere's a massive onslaught and
dismantling of what you know hasbeen called up until now the
Diversity, Equity and InclusionDei, is this another dei
conversation that we're having?
Maria Brinck (01:47):
No, no, this is so much, honestly, it's actually
much bigger than that, if youthink about it, this is not just
about doing the right thing,which I think dei was trying to
do, yeah, at this point in humanhistory, our survival truly
depends on that we get thisright. And what I mean by that
(02:09):
specifically is we need ourdiversity of thought more now
than ever, and we are notmeeting this moment in human
history, and the consequencescould not be larger. There's so
much at stake.
BEATE CHELETTE (02:24):
Yes, thank you and sorry for interrupting you
here. So you talk about in yourbook about the wisdom of
leadership. So how could havethe wisdom? The combined wisdom,
is what I'm hearing you say, ofwomen, indigenous people, old
people, young people, people ofall colors, shapes and sizes.
How could this combined wisdomhave been able to been
(02:49):
classified as a diversityequity, inclusion, as if it was
a bad thing? What happened? So,what was your trigger event?
Maria Brinck (02:57):
Yeah, so my trigger event, and really the
reason why I wrote "TheLeadership We Need," the book,
is that I unfortunately had toexperience this myself, in my
own family. I'd seen it playingout for years, even decades, in
corporate America, being a partof that leadership environment
(03:17):
myself. It was a job, or it waskind of expected. There was no
surprises, and working very muchin sales, this was a part of
what I signed up for. That's howI felt. But when I saw it play
out with the dynamic of my ownfamily and just seeing this kind
of need for status and comingout from greed, I just couldn't
(03:41):
take it anymore, to be honest.
It hit too close to home. Andthen also it was a second reason
as well, and that was because atthe time, I'd actually
experienced a very differenttype of leadership, having had
that great opportunity to liveand work and observe the
indigenous population in aremote part in the Congo Basin
rainforest in Cameroon, and justseeing how things could actually
(04:05):
be so different. And why are wenot bringing in some of this
wisdom in, in into ourleadership across the globe?
BEATE CHELETTE (04:14):
What is it that there is a discounting on these
principles that you know havebeen around for 1000s of years.
What is it about that
Maria Brinck (04:26):
exactly you would think it would be common sense
right to have a fullrepresentation of all of us
would be what would make themost sense? Because then you
know that the wisdom that wehave, all of us are smarter than
any one of us, if we havedifferent experiences, grew up
at different places, we went todifferent schools, or different
(04:47):
thoughts of all kinds of things,that we'll be stronger together
and having that diversity,because we're living in such a
complex world. But what we'reseeing is, in my opinion, and I
write. About this in the book,is that I believe we are
subconsciously drawn to theseleaders when we feel that is
(05:09):
that there is some kind ofcrisis. We tend just like we
tend to crave sweetened sugar,we start craving these alpha
male over masculine type ofcharacters in our leaders.
BEATE CHELETTE (05:23):
So you're saying that this is really a response
to a very old, outdated behaviorpattern. I don't want to quite
say caveman, but certainly feelsold and stagnant. What's the
psychology behind this strong,masculine, I know everything
(05:44):
better than you do. I'm going totake charge. And this is not
America specific. I want to beclear. You know, this is not
about talking about what's goingon in America. This is in
Russia. This is in China. Thisis in this is all over the
world. We are seeing a lot ofthe leaders that are being
popular arising are more on theside of this heavy, heavy
(06:06):
masculinity, where, where? Howdo we manage this is like, why
do they continue to rise? Is itour own insecurity, or is it a
game? Is it a playbook?
Maria Brinck (06:18):
Well, I'm not a psychologist, so I can't speak
to the full psychology of whyit's happening, but what I do
believe, as a leadershipconsultant, what's happening is
that we truly have asubconscious bias towards
Leadership, and we're notsubconsciously voting for or
(06:41):
elevating leaders that are trulycapable and skilled to lead.
I'll give you an example. Youand I and a bunch of others are
on a plane, and the captain ofthe plane faints, a vote is
cast, and we vote for the personwho stands up says that he can
(07:05):
fly a plane, he's loud,confident and says, Trust me,
instead of the person who has apilot license, that's pretty
much where we're at. And we justneed to look ourselves in the
mirror and say, and stop andsay, Am I really voting in and
elevating the person who's themost capable to drive this
(07:29):
business, this organization,forward, this nation, forward
progress? I think we just needto look at ourselves, these
leaders, these type of people,are always going to be out
there, but we need to make surethat we do not have culture and
an environment that let them getto the top. I mean, we really
need to look ourselves in themirror, because we very much
(07:50):
have accepted to be led bybullies. There are reasons why
these leaders got to wherethey're at, and as much as it's
easy to blame them, we shouldblame ourselves.
BEATE CHELETTE (08:01):
So you are alluding to some patterns in
society, and in your book, youtalk about this as a learning
planet type of thing. So why arewe repeating these patterns if
we know they don't work?
Maria Brinck (08:13):
Yeah, that's a really good question, and I
would refer it back to and I'msure you know, as a woman, I'm
going to take it very personalhere, in private and intimate.
We all know there are many womenout there. They're being abused
by their significant other. Weknow by stats, is about one out
of three, one out of four women.
We also know that these womentend to go from one abusive
(08:37):
relationship to the next. Why isthat? And ironically, these type
of relationships has exactly thesame tendencies as we seeing
playing out in these worldleaders today. Number one, you
isolate the woman. You isolateyour nation. This nation first,
right? Nationalism. We're betterthan everybody else. We have
(09:00):
nothing to learn from anybodyelse. That kind of mentality.
You isolate the woman from herfamily, from her friends, same
type. Number two, you startquestioning her thinking. You
start channeling the media, herinfluencers, what's truly real,
what's a lie. We don't know.
(09:22):
Things become kind of shady,just like in a national level,
you start attacking the highlyeducated. This is classic. This
is classic leadership,authoritarian type, style. And
then, of course, the last thingyou do is we versus them. So
it's a dangerous place outthere, honey, you didn't need to
(09:43):
protect you. This is classic,I'm the only one who cares for
you. I'm the only one who'sgoing to protect you, just like
you see in the nations. I'm theonly one who's going to protect
this nation, building walls,bidding, getting more money into
defense. Now. Have a Departmentof War. I mean, and again, not
just United States, but this isclassic in the book of
(10:06):
authoritarian leaders. Just thatis classic in as in domestic
violence. We're seeing it overand over again. And why do we go
for one abusive relation to thenext? Because, and again, I'm
not a psychologist, but what Iknow from leadership is that
it's easier to go to somethingfamiliar, and we have that
(10:28):
constant need, even though weknow it's not good for us, it
makes us feel comfortable, andit's more comfortable than to go
to something we don't even know,which would be another type of
husband, significant otherleader.
BEATE CHELETTE (10:42):
So let's talk about sort of the strategy. Then
here, it sounds to me like Ineed to have some sort of level
of awareness to look at this andrecognize that there's a pattern
that's unfolding or manipulationthat is taking place. How can
people even recognize that? Caneverybody, anybody recognize
(11:03):
that I always talk about triggerevents. Does it have to have a
trigger event? I mean, I'mcertainly seeing a lot of people
that go like, Well, I I was onboard with this, until they took
my stuff away. And now I'mrealizing I thought, I thought
other people would be punished.
I didn't think that I was goingto be at the receiving end of
it. What makes people wake up?
(11:25):
Did you examine that in yourwork? It's like, what is it that
makes somebody
Maria Brinck (11:28):
conscious? Yeah, it's difficult, but we do need
to look into our own again. Thisis on us. We should not blame
any particular leader, per se.
We should really look deepinside ourselves, and we need to
look for our patterns that wejust talked about, our triggers,
and we need to have a deep selfawareness of where my personal
(11:51):
strengths, where do they comefrom, my values, my purpose, so
I can stay true to myself andnot let myself be swayed by
these type of personalities. AndI also think the something I
write about in the book is thatwe need to have a very high
sensitivity to suffering. Youand I know what's wrong and
(12:15):
right. We know what sufferinglooks like. We don't need
anybody to tell us this issuffering and this is not so I
think we have to be very carefulwith you know, certain leaders,
certain religious religions,that tells us what it should be
and what it shouldn't be, what'sright, what's wrong, we know
(12:36):
deep down, what's right andwrong, and we need to tap into
that more now than ever, so itwill take a lot of inner
development. So now
BEATE CHELETTE (12:45):
I want to shift this a little bit over to
business. Why does this evenmatter for business? So isn't
that the political world? Isn'tthat the external world? What
does it have to do with me andmy business?
Maria Brinck (12:55):
Yeah, it is interesting, because we kind of
took it to the individualrelationship and what's playing
out on the nationalrelationships. And again, to
your point, BEATE, we see it inAmerica. We see it in South
America. We see it in manycountries. In Europe. We see it
playing out in Israel, MiddleEast. We see it in India and
China and North Korea. And Imean, this is all around the
(13:16):
world. So I think it's alsoimportant to realize that this
is not an attack specifically onany particular leader, is just
the leadership culture that wecurrently have and is being led
by now that, ironically, is alsowhat's playing out in
organizations. And you being incorporate America, and it's the
same type of leaders over andover again, we know also that
(13:39):
narcissism is about four timeshigher in leadership positions
in corporate America andbusinesses, I'm sure, all around
the world, not just corporateAmerica, but that's what I've
seen the research from. So we doeven in business, tend to let
these people lead. And I thinkwhat we need to be very careful
(14:00):
for going forward is that wehave overvalued the masculine
for so long that we mistakenlytake it as a leadership skill,
including a lot of influence,like very charismatic people and
very funny People and assertivepeople and confident people. But
(14:21):
being charismatic or even beingtall, that's another we know for
a fact that the average personin leadership, and particularly
we look at the presidents of theUnited States of America, are
much taller than the averageperson. Well, there is nothing
about tall or charismatic orassertive or confident that make
you more capable and skilledleader than any one of us, and
(14:43):
what we need to do is reallytake a step back and think who
actually is the most qualifiedand capable leader going
forward. And that means we needleaders that have a lot of
strategic thinking that might bea little bit more on the more
quiet side, maybe even.
Introverts. We need people thatare really strong in
relationship and cares abouthumanity, cares about the
(15:04):
environment. We need those typeof leaders, and that might be
charismatic. They might not bethat's but we should not go for
for those very superficial typeof leadership styles, which,
again, probably were really good10,000 years ago, when we had
about 500 times the more moreviolence in our society and we
(15:26):
needed an aggressive leader,possibly like that.
BEATE CHELETTE (15:33):
But today, do we really look look at the
consequences? Well, I think itcomes down to the question that
you ask, and the question is,what leadership trades will give
us a competitive advantage? Weknow when we look at history, or
when we look at the repetitivepattern of how we go about
(15:55):
things, we know what works andwhat doesn't work, and we do it
anyway. We do we continue to dothings that don't work, but I
think we are now at a pivotalmoment in history where we are
getting to the edge of somethingthat could go could go really
bad, really fast. So what arethese leadership traits that are
(16:15):
now giving us this competitiveedge? And you already mentioned
some of them. So have, do wehave the complete picture? Or do
you want to add anything tothat?
Maria Brinck (16:23):
No, I would like to add a few things to that
because, and I think you'reabsolutely right. Beah, I mean,
as you know, Einstein famouslysaid, we cannot solve the
problems with the same thinkingthat created them. So why are we
over and over again, we're justcircling around, circling
around, circling around, rightwhat we need today in
(16:46):
leadership, and this goes backalso what we talked about, the
inner work that we all need todo is balance the greatest
potential within us, which isbalance the feminine and The
masculine equally. What I meanby that is in leadership today,
you need to be bold and humble.
You need to be decisive andinclusive. You need to be
(17:12):
confident and caring. It cannotjust be bold and decisive and
confident and charismatic, andyou need to be having a much
wider set of qualities andskills to lead, because the
world is more complex, and thegreatest thing that you can
(17:34):
bring to leadership is thecourage and the boldness, if you
will, to reach out to the otherside and meet people where there
are, and connect and buildbridges. And that's going to
need more than just themasculine. It's going to need
that feminine of the connection,the inclusiveness, the caring,
on being humble, and that's whatwe need more so today than any
(17:58):
time in human history. And toyour point, we are at a tipping
point, if you will. We need toget this right, and we're
running out of time, and theconsequences are playing out in
the poly crisis, which I wouldsay is the direct consequence of
this type of leadership we hadover the 10,000 years, the only
(18:21):
leadership we truly know. Iwould also like to point out
that we have this, you know,we're thinking, of course, of
their people out there and say,Maria, you're so naive. This is
never gonna work. They're alwaysgonna be wars. You know, there's
just human nature. Wait asecond, how do we even know it's
human nature? If we never hadhuman nature lead, we had a
(18:43):
small, small subset of men only,and very, very aggressive men.
They're not even the averagemale leading. And that's what we
looked at at humanity and sayingwe're always going to have wars.
Are always going to be this way?
I say absolutely not. We can doso much better than we're seeing
(19:06):
today in the world, inrelationships, in nation, in
nations and in businesses, thanwe are today. People can be
feeling a sense of well beingand that are very survival is
secured. We do not need to livein an environment where people
and children star. We do notneed to live in an environment
(19:27):
where we're being basicallykilling ourselves because of all
the pollutants in the world, inthe air, in the land, in the
water. We don't need this. Wecan do so much better, but we
need to get these things right.
And the first thing, the firststep is to get that diversity of
thought into leadership.
BEATE CHELETTE (19:43):
I love that. So if we're not talking to Founders
of the Future, which we are,what should they do? I
Maria Brinck (19:48):
think we all need to step into being founders and
leaders. You know, we need totake charge of our current
situation. We can no longerafford to be followers that. One
of the things. So I lovefounders, because, I mean, these
are the people that putthemselves out there and again,
that also goes to say weabsolutely need the masculine
(20:10):
leadership traits. We need to bebold, we need to go out there,
take risks, well calculatedrisks. We need to explore. We
need to be adventurous. So Iwant to make it clear that this
is not about women per se, andit's not about the feminine
taken over in any shape or form.
It's more about women andminorities and indigenous
(20:31):
leading alongside the men andthe feminine being led by
alongside the masculine. Justwant to make that clear, because
I think it's it's out there tobe misinterpreted. So as a
founder, I would start withdoing some of this inner work to
make sure that I have a verystable foundation for what we're
currently going through and forwhat's ahead, because it's not
(20:51):
going to be easy. And for that,I would recommend starting with
really honing down on what areyour true strengths? What are
the strengths that are unique toyou, and are you utilizing and
maximizing those strengths?
Currently, I would also do andStrengths Finder is a great
assessment to explore yours.
Secondly, I probably bring outlike an assessment, maybe. And
(21:16):
these are all very affordable,by the way, and you don't
necessarily need to work with acoach or anything. The second
thing would probably be toexplore your values. What are
your true core values that youneed to stay true to, to feel
like you're have meaning in yourlife, and you you're living to
that meaning. And then I wouldprobably look into the purpose
(21:37):
that you're creating in your ownlife. Is it the purpose that you
were meant to have? Do you feellike you're aligning your work
with that purpose? I do havesomething I call a synergy Q12
that I write about in the book.
So that's probably where I wouldstart. Because, as you know,
starting a business, you gottabe swayed this way and this way
(21:59):
and back and forth, and it'svery important that you stay
true to yourself. First andforemost, excellent.
BEATE CHELETTE (22:07):
So Maria Brink with us here today, from
synergy, talking about consciousleadership. And if you want our
audience to walk away with onething, with one core message,
what would it
Maria Brinck (22:18):
be? I think knowing yourself, self
awareness, and maybe a secondmessage in there would be,
because I made this mistakemyself, never underestimate the
people around you. Don't thinkthat you're smarter than anybody
else, or you can work harderthan anybody else, because in
(22:38):
the end of the day, I had thatmindset that I thought I always
had to be the smartest and I wasthe smartest to realize, not at
all, I need to be surrounded bysmart people, and that's really
what's going to bring out thesmart in me. When you challenge
each other and you come in withthat diversity of thought, it's
amazing how much you will growand get out, get out of your own
(22:59):
ego chamber, if you will, orecho chamber. That would be my
recommendation to your audience,
BEATE CHELETTE (23:06):
yeah, I always say, don't believe everything
you think, because we exactly,because we, we have these
thoughts and then nobodychallenges them. And what do you
need to talk to other peoplefor? If they confirm what you
already know that's pointlessconversation. I actively and
purposely look for differingviewpoints and thoughts and
(23:29):
stuff that I don't know, becausehow could I ever have an opinion
about something if everybodyjust says, yeah, exactly you're
so right on everything, that'sexactly it. I think the
conversation today is reallypowerful in the sense that it's
a touchy subject to talk aboutdiversity, equity, inclusion,
dei, because now people go like,well, it excluded white men
specifically, and it was initself, the word that I'm
(23:52):
including women excluded men,and in the sense that I'm
including black and brownpeople, I'm excluding white
people. So I want to reiteratethat on this show and on
anything I do, and I'm sure youdo, this isn't about that. This
is about somebody said, Thewoman that were one, a woman
that works for Airbnb, said,This is not about having an
(24:16):
unfair advantage. This is aboutmaking sure you don't have an
unfair disadvantage. Talk to usabout the book, Maria,
Maria Brinck (24:24):
well, the book "The Leadership We Need" a new
mindset for a brighter future.
Really has to do with the newmindset, because, you know,
leader, leadership is mindsets.
It's you're not. You can't goand necessarily get a degree in
or title now you're going to bea leader. It really has to
evolve in your mind and in yourmindset. And I think the mindset
(24:48):
that we currently haven't havingacross the globe is just not
enough. We need to expand thatmindset. And that's where the
future potential for. Humanityis within that expanded mindset
of what leadership could be andshould be. That's what I hope
that this book will bring thereader. And of course, it's also
(25:10):
very practical. I have a 10 stepmicro road map on how to get
there with very small steps. Andthen of course, of course, the
connection with yourself and theinner feminine and masculine
leadership qualities, and howcan you expand on both and make
sure that they are balanced andharmonious and lead from there?
Because that's where you will bethe most effective, because, in
(25:32):
a way, that is your greatestpotential, where you can just
show up the way you are and nothave to try to be more masculine
just to fit in. And I'm sure anywoman listening to this podcast
knows exactly what I'm talkingabout.
BEATE CHELETTE (25:45):
Okay, wonderful, beautiful, well, and that
concludes our conversationtoday. Maria Brinck here again
from synergy, and we talkedtoday about leadership,
evolution, conscious capitalismand why. Really, all wisdom
needs a seat at the table. Theolder I get, the more I see the
pattern repeats itself over andover and over again. We are
fighting for the same thing thatI fought 40 years ago for, and
(26:08):
something tells me this might,unless we change, the pattern
continue and then in 40 years,the women that come after us
will have the exact sameexperiences, by way, fighting
for this again, humanity doesbetter if we move in the same
direction if we move forward,and sometimes we need to have
uncomfortable conversations andconfront our own ideas, opinions
(26:29):
and biases, and ask ourselves,is this true? So Maria, thank
you very much for being on theshow today. It's been an
insightful conversation. Thankyou for being here.
Maria Brinck (26:36):
Thank you so much for having me. BEATE. I so
appreciate this,
BEATE CHELETTE (26:41):
and that is it for us. For today, I hope you
took away some valuableinsights. Make sure you check
out Maria and get the book learnabout, you know, conscious
leadership, what type ofleadership is required to lead
the future of tomorrow. And ifyou find something valuable On
this episode, please share itwith one other person.
Subscribe, like, leave a commentand we see you again next time
(27:03):
and GOODBYE. That's it for thisepisode of the Business Growth
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with vision. Move with purpose.
(27:29):
Create your future.
We are not being led by the greatest asset of
(00:04):
humanity today, not even close.
Our survival truly depends onthat we get this right. We are
subconsciously drawn to theseleaders, loud, confident,
instead of the truly capable tolead, it's easier to go to
something familiar, even thoughwe know it's not good for us, we
(00:29):
can do so much better than we'reseeing today in the world. We
need to balance the feminine andthe masculine equally. You need
to be bold and humble, decisiveand inclusive.
BEATE CHELETTE (00:54):
Hello, Maria, welcome. What makes your blood
boil when it comes to today's
Maria Brinck (01:02):
leadership, wow.
Beate, thank you for having me.
What makes my blood boil is thefact that we are not being led
by the greatest asset ofhumanity today, not even close.
And that is sad, becausehumanity have so much more to
offer. We are falling short ofour human potential, and it
(01:25):
hurts, and it I'm sure it hurtsa lot of people right now.
BEATE CHELETTE (01:29):
It certainly is hurting a lot of people. So I'm
gonna have to, like, jump rightin, sort of the sensitive issue
here, because we know thatthere's a massive onslaught and
dismantling of what you know hasbeen called up until now the
Diversity, Equity and InclusionDei, is this another dei
conversation that we're having?
Maria Brinck (01:47):
No, no, this is so much, honestly, it's actually
much bigger than that, if youthink about it, this is not just
about doing the right thing,which I think dei was trying to
do, yeah, at this point in humanhistory, our survival truly
depends on that we get thisright. And what I mean by that
(02:09):
specifically is we need ourdiversity of thought more now
than ever, and we are notmeeting this moment in human
history, and the consequencescould not be larger. There's so
much at stake.
BEATE CHELETTE (02:24):
Yes, thank you and sorry for interrupting you
here. So you talk about in yourbook about the wisdom of
leadership. So how could havethe wisdom? The combined wisdom,
is what I'm hearing you say, ofwomen, indigenous people, old
people, young people, people ofall colors, shapes and sizes.
How could this combined wisdomhave been able to been
(02:49):
classified as a diversityequity, inclusion, as if it was
a bad thing? What happened? So,what was your trigger event?
Maria Brinck (02:57):
Yeah, so my trigger event, and really the
reason why I wrote "TheLeadership We Need," the book,
is that I unfortunately had toexperience this myself, in my
own family. I'd seen it playingout for years, even decades, in
corporate America, being a partof that leadership environment
(03:17):
myself. It was a job, or it waskind of expected. There was no
surprises, and working very muchin sales, this was a part of
what I signed up for. That's howI felt. But when I saw it play
out with the dynamic of my ownfamily and just seeing this kind
of need for status and comingout from greed, I just couldn't
(03:41):
take it anymore, to be honest.
It hit too close to home. Andthen also it was a second reason
as well, and that was because atthe time, I'd actually
experienced a very differenttype of leadership, having had
that great opportunity to liveand work and observe the
indigenous population in aremote part in the Congo Basin
rainforest in Cameroon, and justseeing how things could actually
(04:05):
be so different. And why are wenot bringing in some of this
wisdom in, in into ourleadership across the globe?
BEATE CHELETTE (04:14):
What is it that there is a discounting on these
principles that you know havebeen around for 1000s of years.
What is it about that
Maria Brinck (04:26):
exactly you would think it would be common sense
right to have a fullrepresentation of all of us
would be what would make themost sense? Because then you
know that the wisdom that wehave, all of us are smarter than
any one of us, if we havedifferent experiences, grew up
at different places, we went todifferent schools, or different
(04:47):
thoughts of all kinds of things,that we'll be stronger together
and having that diversity,because we're living in such a
complex world. But what we'reseeing is, in my opinion, and I
write. About this in the book,is that I believe we are
subconsciously drawn to theseleaders when we feel that is
(05:09):
that there is some kind ofcrisis. We tend just like we
tend to crave sweetened sugar,we start craving these alpha
male over masculine type ofcharacters in our leaders.
BEATE CHELETTE (05:23):
So you're saying that this is really a response
to a very old, outdated behaviorpattern. I don't want to quite
say caveman, but certainly feelsold and stagnant. What's the
psychology behind this strong,masculine, I know everything
(05:44):
better than you do. I'm going totake charge. And this is not
America specific. I want to beclear. You know, this is not
about talking about what's goingon in America. This is in
Russia. This is in China. Thisis in this is all over the
world. We are seeing a lot ofthe leaders that are being
popular arising are more on theside of this heavy, heavy
(06:06):
masculinity, where, where? Howdo we manage this is like, why
do they continue to rise? Is itour own insecurity, or is it a
game? Is it a playbook?
Maria Brinck (06:18):
Well, I'm not a psychologist, so I can't speak
to the full psychology of whyit's happening, but what I do
believe, as a leadershipconsultant, what's happening is
that we truly have asubconscious bias towards
Leadership, and we're notsubconsciously voting for or
(06:41):
elevating leaders that are trulycapable and skilled to lead.
I'll give you an example. Youand I and a bunch of others are
on a plane, and the captain ofthe plane faints, a vote is
cast, and we vote for the personwho stands up says that he can
(07:05):
fly a plane, he's loud,confident and says, Trust me,
instead of the person who has apilot license, that's pretty
much where we're at. And we justneed to look ourselves in the
mirror and say, and stop andsay, Am I really voting in and
elevating the person who's themost capable to drive this
(07:29):
business, this organization,forward, this nation, forward
progress? I think we just needto look at ourselves, these
leaders, these type of people,are always going to be out
there, but we need to make surethat we do not have culture and
an environment that let them getto the top. I mean, we really
need to look ourselves in themirror, because we very much
(07:50):
have accepted to be led bybullies. There are reasons why
these leaders got to wherethey're at, and as much as it's
easy to blame them, we shouldblame ourselves.
BEATE CHELETTE (08:01):
So you are alluding to some patterns in
society, and in your book, youtalk about this as a learning
planet type of thing. So why arewe repeating these patterns if
we know they don't work?
Maria Brinck (08:13):
Yeah, that's a really good question, and I
would refer it back to and I'msure you know, as a woman, I'm
going to take it very personalhere, in private and intimate.
We all know there are many womenout there. They're being abused
by their significant other. Weknow by stats, is about one out
of three, one out of four women.
We also know that these womentend to go from one abusive
(08:37):
relationship to the next. Why isthat? And ironically, these type
of relationships has exactly thesame tendencies as we seeing
playing out in these worldleaders today. Number one, you
isolate the woman. You isolateyour nation. This nation first,
right? Nationalism. We're betterthan everybody else. We have
(09:00):
nothing to learn from anybodyelse. That kind of mentality.
You isolate the woman from herfamily, from her friends, same
type. Number two, you startquestioning her thinking. You
start channeling the media, herinfluencers, what's truly real,
what's a lie. We don't know.
(09:22):
Things become kind of shady,just like in a national level,
you start attacking the highlyeducated. This is classic. This
is classic leadership,authoritarian type, style. And
then, of course, the last thingyou do is we versus them. So
it's a dangerous place outthere, honey, you didn't need to
(09:43):
protect you. This is classic,I'm the only one who cares for
you. I'm the only one who'sgoing to protect you, just like
you see in the nations. I'm theonly one who's going to protect
this nation, building walls,bidding, getting more money into
defense. Now. Have a Departmentof War. I mean, and again, not
just United States, but this isclassic in the book of
(10:06):
authoritarian leaders. Just thatis classic in as in domestic
violence. We're seeing it overand over again. And why do we go
for one abusive relation to thenext? Because, and again, I'm
not a psychologist, but what Iknow from leadership is that
it's easier to go to somethingfamiliar, and we have that
(10:28):
constant need, even though weknow it's not good for us, it
makes us feel comfortable, andit's more comfortable than to go
to something we don't even know,which would be another type of
husband, significant otherleader.
BEATE CHELETTE (10:42):
So let's talk about sort of the strategy. Then
here, it sounds to me like Ineed to have some sort of level
of awareness to look at this andrecognize that there's a pattern
that's unfolding or manipulationthat is taking place. How can
people even recognize that? Caneverybody, anybody recognize
(11:03):
that I always talk about triggerevents. Does it have to have a
trigger event? I mean, I'mcertainly seeing a lot of people
that go like, Well, I I was onboard with this, until they took
my stuff away. And now I'mrealizing I thought, I thought
other people would be punished.
I didn't think that I was goingto be at the receiving end of
it. What makes people wake up?
(11:25):
Did you examine that in yourwork? It's like, what is it that
makes somebody
Maria Brinck (11:28):
conscious? Yeah, it's difficult, but we do need
to look into our own again. Thisis on us. We should not blame
any particular leader, per se.
We should really look deepinside ourselves, and we need to
look for our patterns that wejust talked about, our triggers,
and we need to have a deep selfawareness of where my personal
(11:51):
strengths, where do they comefrom, my values, my purpose, so
I can stay true to myself andnot let myself be swayed by
these type of personalities. AndI also think the something I
write about in the book is thatwe need to have a very high
sensitivity to suffering. Youand I know what's wrong and
(12:15):
right. We know what sufferinglooks like. We don't need
anybody to tell us this issuffering and this is not so I
think we have to be very carefulwith you know, certain leaders,
certain religious religions,that tells us what it should be
and what it shouldn't be, what'sright, what's wrong, we know
(12:36):
deep down, what's right andwrong, and we need to tap into
that more now than ever, so itwill take a lot of inner
development. So now
BEATE CHELETTE (12:45):
I want to shift this a little bit over to
business. Why does this evenmatter for business? So isn't
that the political world? Isn'tthat the external world? What
does it have to do with me andmy business?
Maria Brinck (12:55):
Yeah, it is interesting, because we kind of
took it to the individualrelationship and what's playing
out on the nationalrelationships. And again, to
your point, BEATE, we see it inAmerica. We see it in South
America. We see it in manycountries. In Europe. We see it
playing out in Israel, MiddleEast. We see it in India and
China and North Korea. And Imean, this is all around the
(13:16):
world. So I think it's alsoimportant to realize that this
is not an attack specifically onany particular leader, is just
the leadership culture that wecurrently have and is being led
by now that, ironically, is alsowhat's playing out in
organizations. And you being incorporate America, and it's the
same type of leaders over andover again, we know also that
(13:39):
narcissism is about four timeshigher in leadership positions
in corporate America andbusinesses, I'm sure, all around
the world, not just corporateAmerica, but that's what I've
seen the research from. So we doeven in business, tend to let
these people lead. And I thinkwhat we need to be very careful
(14:00):
for going forward is that wehave overvalued the masculine
for so long that we mistakenlytake it as a leadership skill,
including a lot of influence,like very charismatic people and
very funny People and assertivepeople and confident people. But
(14:21):
being charismatic or even beingtall, that's another we know for
a fact that the average personin leadership, and particularly
we look at the presidents of theUnited States of America, are
much taller than the averageperson. Well, there is nothing
about tall or charismatic orassertive or confident that make
you more capable and skilledleader than any one of us, and
(14:43):
what we need to do is reallytake a step back and think who
actually is the most qualifiedand capable leader going
forward. And that means we needleaders that have a lot of
strategic thinking that might bea little bit more on the more
quiet side, maybe even.
Introverts. We need people thatare really strong in
relationship and cares abouthumanity, cares about the
(15:04):
environment. We need those typeof leaders, and that might be
charismatic. They might not bethat's but we should not go for
for those very superficial typeof leadership styles, which,
again, probably were really good10,000 years ago, when we had
about 500 times the more moreviolence in our society and we
(15:26):
needed an aggressive leader,possibly like that.
BEATE CHELETTE (15:33):
But today, do we really look look at the
consequences? Well, I think itcomes down to the question that
you ask, and the question is,what leadership trades will give
us a competitive advantage? Weknow when we look at history, or
when we look at the repetitivepattern of how we go about
(15:55):
things, we know what works andwhat doesn't work, and we do it
anyway. We do we continue to dothings that don't work, but I
think we are now at a pivotalmoment in history where we are
getting to the edge of somethingthat could go could go really
bad, really fast. So what arethese leadership traits that are
(16:15):
now giving us this competitiveedge? And you already mentioned
some of them. So have, do wehave the complete picture? Or do
you want to add anything tothat?
Maria Brinck (16:23):
No, I would like to add a few things to that
because, and I think you'reabsolutely right. Beah, I mean,
as you know, Einstein famouslysaid, we cannot solve the
problems with the same thinkingthat created them. So why are we
over and over again, we're justcircling around, circling
around, circling around, rightwhat we need today in
(16:46):
leadership, and this goes backalso what we talked about, the
inner work that we all need todo is balance the greatest
potential within us, which isbalance the feminine and The
masculine equally. What I meanby that is in leadership today,
you need to be bold and humble.
You need to be decisive andinclusive. You need to be
(17:12):
confident and caring. It cannotjust be bold and decisive and
confident and charismatic, andyou need to be having a much
wider set of qualities andskills to lead, because the
world is more complex, and thegreatest thing that you can
(17:34):
bring to leadership is thecourage and the boldness, if you
will, to reach out to the otherside and meet people where there
are, and connect and buildbridges. And that's going to
need more than just themasculine. It's going to need
that feminine of the connection,the inclusiveness, the caring,
on being humble, and that's whatwe need more so today than any
(17:58):
time in human history. And toyour point, we are at a tipping
point, if you will. We need toget this right, and we're
running out of time, and theconsequences are playing out in
the poly crisis, which I wouldsay is the direct consequence of
this type of leadership we hadover the 10,000 years, the only
(18:21):
leadership we truly know. Iwould also like to point out
that we have this, you know,we're thinking, of course, of
their people out there and say,Maria, you're so naive. This is
never gonna work. They're alwaysgonna be wars. You know, there's
just human nature. Wait asecond, how do we even know it's
human nature? If we never hadhuman nature lead, we had a
(18:43):
small, small subset of men only,and very, very aggressive men.
They're not even the averagemale leading. And that's what we
looked at at humanity and sayingwe're always going to have wars.
Are always going to be this way?
I say absolutely not. We can doso much better than we're seeing
(19:06):
today in the world, inrelationships, in nation, in
nations and in businesses, thanwe are today. People can be
feeling a sense of well beingand that are very survival is
secured. We do not need to livein an environment where people
and children star. We do notneed to live in an environment
(19:27):
where we're being basicallykilling ourselves because of all
the pollutants in the world, inthe air, in the land, in the
water. We don't need this. Wecan do so much better, but we
need to get these things right.
And the first thing, the firststep is to get that diversity of
thought into leadership.
BEATE CHELETTE (19:43):
I love that. So if we're not talking to Founders
of the Future, which we are,what should they do? I
Maria Brinck (19:48):
think we all need to step into being founders and
leaders. You know, we need totake charge of our current
situation. We can no longerafford to be followers that. One
of the things. So I lovefounders, because, I mean, these
are the people that putthemselves out there and again,
that also goes to say weabsolutely need the masculine
(20:10):
leadership traits. We need to bebold, we need to go out there,
take risks, well calculatedrisks. We need to explore. We
need to be adventurous. So Iwant to make it clear that this
is not about women per se, andit's not about the feminine
taken over in any shape or form.
It's more about women andminorities and indigenous
(20:31):
leading alongside the men andthe feminine being led by
alongside the masculine. Justwant to make that clear, because
I think it's it's out there tobe misinterpreted. So as a
founder, I would start withdoing some of this inner work to
make sure that I have a verystable foundation for what we're
currently going through and forwhat's ahead, because it's not
(20:51):
going to be easy. And for that,I would recommend starting with
really honing down on what areyour true strengths? What are
the strengths that are unique toyou, and are you utilizing and
maximizing those strengths?
Currently, I would also do andStrengths Finder is a great
assessment to explore yours.
Secondly, I probably bring outlike an assessment, maybe. And
(21:16):
these are all very affordable,by the way, and you don't
necessarily need to work with acoach or anything. The second
thing would probably be toexplore your values. What are
your true core values that youneed to stay true to, to feel
like you're have meaning in yourlife, and you you're living to
that meaning. And then I wouldprobably look into the purpose
(21:37):
that you're creating in your ownlife. Is it the purpose that you
were meant to have? Do you feellike you're aligning your work
with that purpose? I do havesomething I call a synergy Q12
that I write about in the book.
So that's probably where I wouldstart. Because, as you know,
starting a business, you gottabe swayed this way and this way
(21:59):
and back and forth, and it'svery important that you stay
true to yourself. First andforemost, excellent.
BEATE CHELETTE (22:07):
So Maria Brink with us here today, from
synergy, talking about consciousleadership. And if you want our
audience to walk away with onething, with one core message,
what would it
Maria Brinck (22:18):
be? I think knowing yourself, self
awareness, and maybe a secondmessage in there would be,
because I made this mistakemyself, never underestimate the
people around you. Don't thinkthat you're smarter than anybody
else, or you can work harderthan anybody else, because in
(22:38):
the end of the day, I had thatmindset that I thought I always
had to be the smartest and I wasthe smartest to realize, not at
all, I need to be surrounded bysmart people, and that's really
what's going to bring out thesmart in me. When you challenge
each other and you come in withthat diversity of thought, it's
amazing how much you will growand get out, get out of your own
(22:59):
ego chamber, if you will, orecho chamber. That would be my
recommendation to your audience,
BEATE CHELETTE (23:06):
yeah, I always say, don't believe everything
you think, because we exactly,because we, we have these
thoughts and then nobodychallenges them. And what do you
need to talk to other peoplefor? If they confirm what you
already know that's pointlessconversation. I actively and
purposely look for differingviewpoints and thoughts and
(23:29):
stuff that I don't know, becausehow could I ever have an opinion
about something if everybodyjust says, yeah, exactly you're
so right on everything, that'sexactly it. I think the
conversation today is reallypowerful in the sense that it's
a touchy subject to talk aboutdiversity, equity, inclusion,
dei, because now people go like,well, it excluded white men
specifically, and it was initself, the word that I'm
(23:52):
including women excluded men,and in the sense that I'm
including black and brownpeople, I'm excluding white
people. So I want to reiteratethat on this show and on
anything I do, and I'm sure youdo, this isn't about that. This
is about somebody said, Thewoman that were one, a woman
that works for Airbnb, said,This is not about having an
(24:16):
unfair advantage. This is aboutmaking sure you don't have an
unfair disadvantage. Talk to usabout the book, Maria,
Maria Brinck (24:24):
well, the book "The Leadership We Need" a new
mindset for a brighter future.
Really has to do with the newmindset, because, you know,
leader, leadership is mindsets.
It's you're not. You can't goand necessarily get a degree in
or title now you're going to bea leader. It really has to
evolve in your mind and in yourmindset. And I think the mindset
(24:48):
that we currently haven't havingacross the globe is just not
enough. We need to expand thatmindset. And that's where the
future potential for. Humanityis within that expanded mindset
of what leadership could be andshould be. That's what I hope
that this book will bring thereader. And of course, it's also
(25:10):
very practical. I have a 10 stepmicro road map on how to get
there with very small steps. Andthen of course, of course, the
connection with yourself and theinner feminine and masculine
leadership qualities, and howcan you expand on both and make
sure that they are balanced andharmonious and lead from there?
Because that's where you will bethe most effective, because, in
(25:32):
a way, that is your greatestpotential, where you can just
show up the way you are and nothave to try to be more masculine
just to fit in. And I'm sure anywoman listening to this podcast
knows exactly what I'm talkingabout.
BEATE CHELETTE (25:45):
Okay, wonderful, beautiful, well, and that
concludes our conversationtoday. Maria Brinck here again
from synergy, and we talkedtoday about leadership,
evolution, conscious capitalismand why. Really, all wisdom
needs a seat at the table. Theolder I get, the more I see the
pattern repeats itself over andover and over again. We are
fighting for the same thing thatI fought 40 years ago for, and
(26:08):
something tells me this might,unless we change, the pattern
continue and then in 40 years,the women that come after us
will have the exact sameexperiences, by way, fighting
for this again, humanity doesbetter if we move in the same
direction if we move forward,and sometimes we need to have
uncomfortable conversations andconfront our own ideas, opinions
(26:29):
and biases, and ask ourselves,is this true? So Maria, thank
you very much for being on theshow today. It's been an
insightful conversation. Thankyou for being here.
Maria Brinck (26:36):
Thank you so much for having me. BEATE. I so
appreciate this,
BEATE CHELETTE (26:41):
and that is it for us. For today, I hope you
took away some valuableinsights. Make sure you check
out Maria and get the book learnabout, you know, conscious
leadership, what type ofleadership is required to lead
the future of tomorrow. And ifyou find something valuable On
this episode, please share itwith one other person.
Subscribe, like, leave a commentand we see you again next time
(27:03):
and GOODBYE. That's it for thisepisode of the Business Growth
Architect Show, Founders of theFuture. If you're done playing
small and ready to build thefuture on your terms, subscribe,
share and help us reach moreTrailblazers like you. And if
you're serious about creating,growing and scaling a business
that's aligned with who you are.
Schedule your uncovery sessionat uncoverysession.com. Lead
with vision. Move with purpose.
(27:29):
Create your future.
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