February 3, 2025 • 43 mins
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From the JP Morgan Healthcare Conference in San Francisco, Dr. Stefan Scherer shares insight from 3T Bioscience's transition from clinical medicine to drug development, and his experiences in biotech leadership along the way. Dr. Scherer discusses the balance between promising advances in T-cell therapy and the challenges associated with navigating a biotech from platform development to lead candidate status -- including staffing up for and funding the journey. Don't miss this episode, recorded in-person in San Francisco.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Matt Pillar (00:04):
Welcome back to the Business of Biotech JP Morgan
edition.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (00:08):
I'm here in San Francisco with Dr
Stefan Scherer, and the lasttime I talked with Dr Scherer he
was traversing the Swiss Alpsand it was just last week, if
I'm not mistaken.
We started a conversation abouta biotech's transition from the
research phase to clinicalphase, and today in San
(00:29):
Francisco, at JPM, we're goingto carry that conversation on.
Dr Sher, it's a pleasure tohave you.
Thank you for joining me.
Matt Pillar (00:36):
Thanks so much for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here anda pleasure to talk to you.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (00:40):
The pleasure's all mine.
I want to start theconversation with some
background on you.
So you, you're a PhD, md, phd.
You've got experience ininternal medicine and molecular
oncology, and whenever I havethe opportunity to interview an
MD who did some clinical work,I'm always curious about why
they chose the pharma path.
Matt Pillar (01:01):
So take us back to that inflection point in your
life, when you decided you weregoing to move into pharma path.
So take us back to that, yeah,that inflection point in your
life when you decided you weregoing to move into pharma yeah,
definitely so I was alwaysinterested basically in medicine
and this was one of the careersI was early on in my in school
thinking about to to go inmedicine or bio life sciences,
so to say so at that time.
(01:22):
Basically, then I I actually Igot a, I got a place in med
school.
I started it liked it became mdand was treating patients and
that was very rewarding and thisis a very nice.
It's a very nice job it's.
It's um, I really liked it,enjoyed it to help patients, to
treat patients and see basicallythe success, so to to say you
(01:43):
have.
What I was missing there alittle bit was the deeper
science.
I always wanted to understandnot only how to treat patients,
how to diagnose patients, and Ialso wanted to understand what
is the cause of the disease,what drives the disease, what
makes the cancer basicallycancer, why does it come to a
situation that cells mutate andproliferate and don't stop?
(02:06):
And that was a piece which wasat the time when I studied, so
to say, not so much a part ofthe curriculum, so, and then I
decided at that time to branchout basically into a separate
PhD and after that I spent sometime in Albert Einstein doing
research and then actually came,the inflection points here, to
say what to do in a way, how tocombine one and the other in in
(02:29):
medicine and science the bestway.
And and that's kind of whatdrove me to to industry, where I
thought basically drugdevelopment is a piece where
medicine, clinical experience,but also basically science and
scientific input, how to developthe drugs, which kind of
mutations, which of disease,which kind of conditions to
treat, kind of matches.
And this is the moment where Ithought, okay, I try it out and
(02:52):
give it a shot.
And then started in industryand enjoyed actually the
complexity, enjoyed also theinteraction with basically, as I
said, patients on one hand,still science on the other, but
also basically the businessaspect came in.
As I said, patients on one hand, still science on the other,
but also basically the businessaspect came in and I found a
fascinating triangle themedicine, the science and the
business.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (03:13):
Yeah , that business experience is
interesting to me too.
When and where did that comeinto your sort of circle of
influence?
Was it at Westlake Partners?
Matt Pillar (03:24):
No, it was earlier, basically in Big Pharma,
because you learn therebasically that not only to
develop a medicine matters, italso matters basically can the
medicine come to the marketright.
So what's the business aspect?
Because at the end of the day,in order to keep innovation
going, in order to develop thenext drug, you need to return
some of the investment right.
(03:44):
So it means the drug needs tobe successful in the market and
in order to get there, you learnearly on that it's not only
about science and medicine, it'sbasically also you need to
serve the patient and theshareholders.
And in this business aspect youlearn gradually in the process
of being in big pharma and drugdevelopment.
(04:06):
Certainly it's amplified in ifyou work with, with venture
partners or in vcs, like what Idid as an eii in westlake and
later on.
That's certainly amplifiedbecause this is kind of not only
to help one company and onetruck to come to the market.
You want to amplify that and dothis 10, 20, 50, whatever the
capacity of the fund is.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (04:27):
Yeah , did you readily embrace that?
Coming from a scientificbackground, treating patients,
working on the development ofmedicine, did you embrace the
business aspect?
Matt Pillar (04:39):
I mean, in the beginning it was a learning
curve, right?
I mean, in the beginning youcome very much with a scientific
mind and a scientific ormedical head, so to say, and
it's more about science andmedicine.
But it evolves over time, rightover time, you learn that the
business aspect is, I would say,equally important than science
and medicine.
On the other side and and thisis something which you kind of,
(05:03):
when you want to bring yourtruck to the market, you need to
understand what's thecompetition right?
Can I enter the market?
Under which condition can Ienter the market?
What's the pricing schemelooking like?
What will be access?
How can I even make it possiblethat patient can get to the
truck?
Right?
And this is, globally speaking,very diverse and in this aspect
(05:23):
, basically, you learn this veryearly on in a way that business
and commercial parts matterequally as much.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (05:32):
Tell us about the entrepreneur in
residence position at Westlake.
It's an interesting.
I imagine that had to be a veryinteresting position for you.
Tell us what that entails.
Matt Pillar (05:42):
Yeah, westlake has a very interesting model
actually.
So then they look for people whocome with relevant experience
in the field of medicine,translational medicine,
biomarkers, but also basicallythe commercial and business
aspects of of truck development,and with that, basically they
give you the opportunity tobasically look a year, in a way
(06:05):
prospecting so what kind ofcompany you want to work with or
you want to build, actuallywith Westlake in the background,
so to say.
And this is really a year whereyou spend time looking at tons
and tons of opportunities rightacross the board and, with the
help of fest lake, you also havea lot of freedom to kind of
(06:27):
branch out and talk to check, tocheck transfer officers, talk
to universities, basically talkto pharma, because they want to
out license some molecules whichthen they're of strategy, they
don't want to do from adevelopment perspective.
So you learn a lot.
It's it's it's really enriching.
And then after a year, kind ofin a way for me it was nine
(06:49):
months basically I landed at 3Tand was doing basically the due
diligence and identified theopportunity for T-cell
biospecifics as one of which wecertainly were supposed to
invest at that time.
And this is how I transitionedlater then from Westlake into 3T
Biosciences.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (07:09):
What was 3T Biosciences at the time
that you joined?
In what capacity did you jointhe company?
Matt Pillar (07:15):
3T was a platform company.
So there's a platform welicensed out from Stanford,
chris Garcia's lab in Stanford,and it's a very diverse platform
.
It's very cutting edge from aperspective of target ID and
also looking intocross-reactivities.
And this platform wasoutlicensed and the team was
(07:37):
kind of trying to industrializethe platform, to make the
platform more high throughput,to make it basically a platform
which is not only academic andscientific, which also can kind
of bring trucks to the marketand bring and identify molecules
.
At the end of the day, we cantreat patients.
When I joined, this was kind ofa wider portfolio of
opportunities and in variousdirections cell-based therapies,
(08:02):
t-cell biospecifics, etc.
So it was very much a researchcompany.
And then we were sitting downand looking what is the best
opportunity to take it forward,what can we really do with this
platform in order to servepatients, to help patients and
being a little bit more on theforefront of science and
next-generation medicines.
And then we identified theopportunity basically that
T-cell bispecifics could be theniche, if you want, where 3T can
(08:28):
play and which is coming in thenext three, four, five years,
an important modality fortreatment of patients.
And then we focused the companypurely on T cell bispecifics
and solid tumors.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (08:41):
You no doubt had options right
Coming out of Westlake.
Was there a specific hook about3T that compelled you to make
that decision?
Choose 3T?
Matt Pillar (08:53):
Yeah, I mean, 3t was and still is, of course, a
very innovative company.
So what 3T combines is a fewthings.
First of all, it really has aplatform, so it's not a single
agent.
One hit one type of thing right, so one asset and bringing it
to the market and sell it.
It's actually a platform andhas the opportunity to develop
more than one truck.
(09:13):
Second, it has also thecomponents of AI, ml, in a way
embedded in truck development.
So the complexity of theplatform, the complexity of the
data, is beyond the human brain.
So in order to analyze this andin order to match that
basically with human proteomeand these things, you need much,
(09:34):
much more sophisticated methods.
And that was somethingbasically early, early days in
AI.
I mean now is a very differentstory, but in this one that was
fascinating for me, theopportunity, so to say this
platform gives right, and it'snot only a thing.
We can go in oncology, I mean,could go into immunology or
immune diseases.
(09:54):
You could even do vaccines, soto say, with cancer vaccines or
others, I mean, and we're notpursuing these opportunities
mainly also for reasons of focus, and but the diversity and the
opportunity does with a newmodality, kind of, was something
which drawn me to 3T.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (10:11):
Yeah , it's interesting when I have
conversations with biotechfounders who are reflecting on
sort of the partnershipopportunity out there, the the
funding opportunity out, I get amixed bag of reviews on whether
the market is receptive rightnow or at any given point to
platforms, to specific targetsand products.
(10:34):
Ai, ML I mean everybody lovesthat if it's working effectively
.
What's your sense right now ofsort of market receptivity to
the platform concept versus thelead compound that you're
working on?
Matt Pillar (10:47):
Yeah, it's a very interesting question and I mean,
when we started, or when Istarted, with this business,
platform was key.
Right At that time, peopleinvested, or primarily invested,
in companies who had a platformor have access to a platform.
Then all the biotech crisiscame right, a downturn came and
all these things, and this wasalso beginning of COVID 2020,
(11:08):
2021, right.
So, in this way, in this case,and the whole thing shifted to a
much, much more de-risked model.
So people wanted to have assetswhich are in the clinic phase
one, phase two, in essence,basically, who kind of more
de-risked than a platform early,early on assets, so to say,
(11:30):
yeah, then you as, basically, asentrepreneur or as ceo of a
company, you have to switchstrategies because we we
invested in platform, right, andwe wanted to have to run
basically to develop a pipeline,to develop a portfolio and
bring it to the clinic, etcetera, and this takes years.
Yeah, the market conditionshifts in much less than this
(11:52):
many years.
Actually, in half a year, themarket condition was totally
different.
So we had to refocus, right,and then this is where we
refocus basically the companyfully on the asset we have as a
lead asset.
We continue to do pipeline.
We did some business deals withBering-Engelheim in order to
kind of substantiate and haveaccess to additional resources,
(12:15):
and this was basically where wethen ended up in order to make
the lead compound furthersuccessful and were actually
able to bring it to adevelopment candidate.
And now in the ind phase, yeah,when you're talking out
investors, basically what manywant is a pipeline, a portfolio
and something in the clinic.
Of course they do, they want itall exactly so.
(12:36):
And I mean and even now in jpmorgan we talk to companies and
then in the clinic is not goodenough anymore either.
So they want basically thenclinical data.
Yeah, right, so, which meansend of phase one, phase one, b,
phase two, whatever.
And this goalpost shiftingthing is interesting to maneuver
, but it's from a cash runwayperspective it's relatively
(12:59):
difficult because it's almostunplannable.
Yeah, yeah All right.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (13:03):
So I want to spend some time
talking about the transitionfrom R&D to clinical, but before
we do that, let's just spend alittle bit more time talking
about that transition from usingAI and ML developing a platform
, to sort of shifting the focusto the lead compound.
When you went through thatphase, what did that mean from
sort of a personnel andmanagement standpoint for you as
(13:27):
the leader of the company?
Matt Pillar (13:29):
Well, you have to make hard decisions right In in
in this time, and we also had tomake decisions not only on the
on the on the portfolio.
We also had to make the decisionon personnel right, because if
you plan for a big portfolio, ifyou plan for a big portfolio,
if you plan for a big pipelinein a way, five, six, seven
trucks to develop more or lessin parallel, you need a
(13:49):
different set of of scientistsright in the company.
When you learn to need to focus,basically, you focus your
company on on one or two, whatwe did, basically assets and but
also you need to kind of, in away, focus your company, your
hiring plan, your developmentplan from people and a resource
perspective is very different,you know, and then you take
(14:11):
actions on this as well.
Right, and cut down on onpeople, you cut down on on the
hiring plan, you, you reallyfocus the company on all aspects
in order to to do this and thisis managerial, not easy,
because not only it's harddecisions, it's also difficult
to decide, so to say, when youhave two, three compounds in the
lead, which one you want toprocess right forward and
(14:34):
progress forward, and uh, andthat's uh.
That was a lot of, let's say,strategic meetings, um
discussions, deep dive in datain order to find, basically, the
molecule we found.
We thought it's the one to goforward.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (14:50):
Yeah , yeah, tell me a little bit
more about that molecule.
Matt Pillar (14:54):
So we have a molecule.
Now Basically what we do is Tcell bispecifics.
It's essentially kind of anantibody format which one arm
kind of in a way engages with apeptide, hla, expressed on tumor
cells, and the other armengages via CD3 with the T cells
.
And the molecule we identifiedcomes from a patient who
suffered colorectal cancer andthis was a patient who had this
(15:16):
mismatch repair stable MSScolorectal cancer and these
cancers actually are generallynot susceptible for IO.
So any IO treatment in MSS hasnot been successful in the past
and that we identified thistarget, so to say, out of these
patients was high percentage inthis patient, looked in how many
(15:38):
other patients could have thatand really were surprised
because 80 to 90% of coloncancer patients have this target
.
And then we got a little bitlucky here, if you want, right
in a way, with this target.
And then we thought, okay, thisis a big market because
colorectal cancer, especiallyMSS, where IO is not working in
(16:00):
second and third line, there isnot much available for these
patients.
You know, the PFS in first lineis about a year, the PFS in
second line is six months, inthird line is three months.
Yeah, so it goes very much down.
So there's a high unmet medicalneed.
So that kind of couple of thingscame together where we thought
this is a good target right, andthe target is involved in DNA
(16:21):
repair, in genomic stability, soit's very high expressed in
tissues which proliferate.
So by nature tumor cancer is ahigh proliferating tissue, high
proliferating disease, if youwant.
So it's a high expressed targetin this disease entity.
You know, we also see it innormal tumors, this target in
(16:45):
much, much less frequency andthat basically provides us a
very good therapeutic window,you know.
So that we feel we won't have,we won't hit normal tissue, we
won't hit normal expressingtissue but we will definitely
hit tumor tissue.
And that's where we kind of feltlike that's a target which is
worthwhile to pursue Because itis expressed in high
(17:07):
proliferating tissue, it's notonly in colorectal, we also see
it in triple negative breastcancer, we see it in non-small
squamous and a few others.
And that of course again comesback to choices, right, because
we cannot run a phase one trialin five different indications.
So that's the second time youhave to make, basically to make
(17:28):
a decision what is your leadindication right?
And that's where we decided, asthe high unmet medical need is
in many of these indications,but we went for colorectal
cancer.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (17:40):
So you made that decision and your
goal is to be in the clinic in2026.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct.
So we to be in the clinic in2026.
Is that?
Matt Pillar (17:45):
correct?
Yes, that's correct.
So we are currently in the INDenabling phase.
We are basically in themanufacturing part.
So we manufacture this targetat the moment with the CDMO and
we'll have an IND, if everythinggoes okay, by end of the year,
early next, and then foresee ourfirst patient being treated in
(18:05):
q2 early q2 26.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph (18:08):
what's the?
Uh, what's the manufacturingenvironment look like for this
particular molecule?
I'm curious, but you knowbispecifics are pretty sexy
right now.
If you will, is the?
Is the outsource manufacturingcommunity?
Uh, is?
Is there capacity in this space?
Matt Pillar (18:26):
There is certainly capacity.
The thing is, on the other hand, for us, manufacturing becomes
a de-risking situation.
Right, because we didn't wantto go to manufacturers who have
no experience in manufacturingby specifics, because that's a
learning curve for them andthat's fine, right, in a way,
and it's all good.
But that poses for us adifferent risk, right, because
(18:47):
we work with someone who is notnecessarily experienced in the
field.
So we went to the big guysright, so to say, and looked at
those who have done this in thepast, who have shown they can do
it, et cetera.
And there is actually quite alot of capacity available right
in in general for this.
And and the manufacturing takesa year, no matter with whom you
(19:11):
talk, right, so it's the sametimelines roughly yeah, yeah,
all right.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (19:16):
So let's talk about that management
transition from from researchto to manufacturing and in
preparation for the clinic.
What does that look like?
And I want to kind of talkabout that from a personnel
standpoint, a funding standpointand maybe partnership
standpoint and whatever else.
I mean, you know you're livingit.
So whatever other sort ofdynamics or forces come into
(19:38):
play, let's unpack that a littlebit.
Matt Pillar (19:41):
Yeah, no, it's a great question and it's a great
topic because, as I said, when Ijoined 3T, we transitioned the
company basically from aresearch platform into a product
development company.
Right, we were looking intowhich product we are developing.
Now we're facing essentiallythe second transition into a
clinical stage.
Biopharma and the people whoworked in 3T and still working
(20:05):
in 3T and we continue to needthem.
There's no change very much.
Researchers, right, they helpto develop, identify the targets
, help to develop the targets,and basically protein scientists
, protein engineers, who reallyhelp to put this molecule, the
complexity of the moleculetogether that it can be
manufactured.
Now, going into clinic, youneed people with clinical
(20:26):
development experience.
Yeah, so we have to add onskills to the company which we
didn't use and we didn't needbefore.
Right, so now, kind of thecompany transitions again into
more clinical stage part.
We need to hire, like, peoplewith the cmo background.
Right, we need people withclinical development experience,
clinical operations, regulatoryaffairs, et cetera, et cetera.
(20:49):
So those are the skill sets.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., (20:55):
Basically , we need to add on at the
moment and they're not so easyto find, yeah, well, yeah, I was
going to ask about that becauseall we hear about is the sort
of dearth in biotech talent.
So what are you doing to solvethat challenge?
Matt Pillar (21:08):
So we certainly do this on many.
We try to pursue it on manyavenues, right, I mean we're
leveraging, of course, as muchas we can, personal networks
right From previous companieswe've worked with and the other
colleagues, so to say, lookinginto that.
We're also engaging, of course,search firms right to help us
with the right talent, becauseif you work in such specialized
(21:31):
field, it doesn't help me if Ifind a clinical developer who
has never done T-cell byspecific cell-based therapies or
anything.
So you need to find not theneedle in the high stack, but
you need someone who has therelevant skill set right in this
one, and that's not so easy,right, because if you want
someone who come in and lead andput his stamp, so to say, on
(21:52):
the program, I mean we need onewho has a relatively speaking
short learning curve.
Yeah, and this is what we'recurrently looking into.
So to find a CMO, find a VP ofclinical looking for clinical
operations, these people is whatis our hiring plan for 2025.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (22:10):
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Yeah, and I imagine that hiringup in anticipation of clinical
(23:17):
development is sort of the tipof the spear on another
inflection point, and that wouldbe funding First you've got to
pay for these people, thenyou're going to have to pay for
some clinical trial activity,which is, which is not, uh,
inconsequential money.
so tell me about preparationsfor that.
Matt Pillar (23:34):
Yeah, I mean the money you need for research is
not is not small, but it'scompared to what you need for
clinic, it's nothing right.
So because I mean manufacturingis easily double-digit millions
, yeah, and no question about it.
I mean clinical is easilydouble digit millions, yeah, and
no question about it.
I mean clinical trial is doubledigit millions, and so we need
to kind of make sure we resourcethe company adequately in order
(23:56):
to get through the clinicaltrial right.
It doesn't help me if I havemoney to get in the clinical
trial but cannot finish it right.
That that's not fair to thepatient, as it's not fair to the
investors.
That's not fair to the company.
So we need to be clear that weresource the company adequately
for that.
So we are now in the race of a Bround, so we're targeting 80 to
(24:16):
100 million.
For that.
We have raised from insiderswho have been investing in the
company previously, currentlyabout 45 million.
So let's say we're halfwaythrough, yeah to to the
fundraise and we're using jpmorgan and of course, also post
jp morgan and the next couple ofmonths to close the round, um,
(24:38):
with another 40 to 50 million.
Yeah, what's?
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (24:42):
Yeah , what's proven, perhaps
challenging in that effort, youknow, I mean you could, could
come at it from any angleReceptivity to an approach that
has heretofore been unsuccessful, which could excite some
investors, could turn someinvestors off, right the
(25:02):
shifting goalposts.
You know what investors arelooking for.
What were you, I guess, whatsort of the temperature of the
investment community communityfor this move into clinicals and
what maybe is standing in theway.
Matt Pillar (25:16):
Yeah, I mean look, I mean the T-SAT by specific is
a relatively speaking new area,but so totally new Right.
There is previous experience,for example.
For example, immunocore was wasable to put chemtrack on the
market for uvul melanoma right,which is very helpful because it
shows it's possible right andit shows a molecule like that
can actually really treat thedisease or can retreat patients
(25:39):
right.
There is others in development.
This is more cs, cancer testisantigens like MHA4, mha8, also
PRAME.
So these developments basicallyhelp.
What is a bit like what we hearoften is exactly where I think
3T can shine in this way is thecross-reactivity, because the
(26:02):
people are a little bit afraidwith these molecules and side
effects.
These molecules are really,really active, so it's really a
hot molecule if you put it intothe patient, right.
So what it binds, it kills, youknow, no matter if it's normal
or no matter if it's tumor,right.
Of course you want tumor, youdon't want the normal.
(26:23):
But what you actually target isactually a kind of a 9, 10, 11
amino acids.
It's a very small peptide, sothe risk that you find a similar
sequence or a homology-basedthing elsewhere in the body is
not zero because it's very smallright, so that you find
(26:46):
something which is equal, eitherequal or homology, equal from a
sequence or from a structuralperspective.
These two things we need toexclude.
And in previous experience inthe clinic you have seen really
very bad side effects, you knowso.
One prominent example is magea3.
Yeah, so people put a head ofagainst mage a3 and then they
(27:10):
said a cross-reactivity withtitan.
Titan is a molecule which isexpressed in cardiomyocytes.
So what happened?
Actually, the patients died oncardiogenic shock because the,
the molecule killed the heartand not only the tumor.
And there is other moleculeswhere basically, side effects
(27:35):
not of this magnitude, butsimilar side effects have been
preventative of developing thesetumors further.
And that's where we think theplatform we have helps, because
we can kind of reduce thesecross-reactivities in these
molecules significantly comparedto what has happened in the
past.
That's an uphill battle, right,in order to explain that to
(27:55):
investors, because they knowthis data, right, and I've seen
this data so to explain themthat the molecule is relatively,
relatively speaking, safe.
You know, I mean we will seeside effects in the clinic,
right, like CRS and a few otherthings, no doubt on this end,
but we won't see these terribleside effects, right what others
have seen and have experienced.
(28:17):
That's basically something youneed to explain to investors,
and this is not easy in thecurrent market.
Yeah, yeah this is not easy inthe current market?
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (28:25):
Yeah , yeah.
What about balancing platformdevelopment and pipeline and
clinical progress, now all sortof at the same time?
How are you tackling that?
Matt Pillar (28:37):
I mean the focus.
Currently, our main focus iscertainly bringing the molecule
into clinic, right into the IND,and this is where probably 80%
of the funding goes to.
Yeah, um, we are notdisregarding pipeline and
certainly not disregardingplatform, because, as I told you
, investors are more attractedto if you have a platform, you
(28:57):
have a pipeline and the moleculein the clinic or close to the
clinic, right, so try to fit thebill.
Yeah, and we try to make this asituation where we kind of be
kind of in the sweet spot, ifyou want, you know, for
investors.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (29:12):
If that sweet spot moves around
again right which it willinevitably right, like tomorrow,
it could be like you know what.
Forget about the platforms weneed.
You know we need molecules inclinic, we need clinical data.
What do you do as the leader ofthe company to sort of obviate
for that, to prepare for it andbe in an agile position to shift
if necessary?
Is it even possible?
Matt Pillar (29:33):
It is.
I mean, as a platform companyit's actually relatively easy
possible Kind of you can Iwouldn't say you would turn it
down, but I mean you can pauseit, right.
So the investment, you're notlosing the platform in a way.
But you can say, okay, we pausethe target ID, which we have
done to a large degree in thepart we had to focus on the lead
(29:54):
molecule, right, and now wewould do similar things.
Basically, so we kind of yeah,if you want, putting less
emphasis on the, on the pipelineand on the platform, certainly
the highest, the highestinvestment and resources go in
the development of the drug andbringing it into the clinic,
because this is where the valueis right.
(30:15):
This is where the value is ingeneral.
This is where the value is ingeneral.
The second piece, basically,would be developing trucks which
are coming after, you know, thesecond and the third molecule
and then the pipeline.
That the target ID would thenkind of really pause and with a
platform, as I mentioned before,this is not too difficult,
right, and you're not destroyingvalue directly because you keep
(30:38):
the platform alive, yeah, butyou're not basically running it
and and running hundreds andthousands of samples over it
yeah, what does it take from aresource perspective to keep a
platform alive, because I meanit, theoretically, it makes
perfect sense, right?
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph. (30:53):
we've got the platform.
We can always fall back to theplatform, go back to the
platform.
What does it keep, or what doesit take to keep that platform
alive and ready when called uponfrom a resource standpoint?
Matt Pillar (31:07):
yeah, I mean you, you cannot basically let all the
people go right or or thinkingabout of kind of stripping the
company down to just clinical.
So this doesn't work right,because rehiring and retraining
the people on a complex platformtakes a lot more time than you
think, right.
So in that essence, you need tokeep a core activity on the
(31:29):
platform going, even if youdon't do it right.
And I mean, in our case it'sactually relatively kind of
fortunate, if you want, becausewe're using the platform not
only for target ID, we're alsousing it for de-risking.
So in any molecule we bring tothe clinic, we need trace and
the trace platform basicallyalso for identifying
(31:50):
cross-reactivities.
So and this is the minimal partof the platform we would leave
alive, right, we would not dotarget ID, but we leave it for
cross-reactivities, and this isjust a different use of the
platform, but it's still thesame platform.
So in this case, we're notlosing people, we're not losing
competencies, we're not losingexpertise.
We would just shift theresources to a different purpose
(32:13):
of the platform.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (32:14):
Yeah , yeah.
So, as I noted, we're here inSan Francisco for JP Morgan 2025
.
It's day two, day two of theconference.
I'm not going to ask for adetailed insight into your
meetings over the course of thelast day or so, but what is sort
of a day in the life of abiotech CEO, or you specifically
(32:39):
look like here?
What are you looking toaccomplish and how are you
spending your time?
Matt Pillar (32:43):
So at the moment, yeah, no, I mean, jp Morgan is a
good venue, you know, to meetpeople from the industry.
Right, it's one of the biggestgatherings, so to say, from
biotech and pharma industry inin the year.
Um, I think the big advantageis also, you meet, you have
easier access to senior leadersin the company, right, if you
(33:04):
want to have partneringdiscussions and um and bd
business development discussionsor kind of also with investors,
etc.
Etc.
So this is easier because thatthe leadership, the decision
makers, say to say, are now atone place.
Yeah, right, if you reach outto a company, then you go
through search and evaluation,you go to to bd, you go to this
(33:27):
and it takes.
It takes a couple of more steps, right, in order to reach the
decision makers and to reach,basically, the people from
development, research, whateveryou need in order to progress
the discussions you know, hereit's all kind of at one place
and the meetings kind of happendirectly, with more decision
makers at the at the table thanit is in other things.
(33:50):
So what we do at the moment isthis kind of an starts at 8 and
ends at 11.
One is every day, so I need abit of a vacation after that.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (34:01):
Yes , 100% You'll be back on the
Swiss Alps next week.
Not really, but I'm thinkingabout it.
Well, that brings up a questionI wanted to ask you.
So, like I said, when we lastspoke last week, you were there,
but 3T is headquartered here inSan Francisco.
Is that correct?
Yeah?
Matt Pillar (34:18):
3T is based in South San Francisco, so it's
where it all started, inStanford.
So to say, right, and we keptthe company and the research
here.
We have a small base inSwitzerland for talent
acquisition, so to say.
I mean, basel is an interestingtown from a pharma perspective.
Right, you have roche, novartisand others, and I mean, as
(34:40):
these companies are alsorestructuring and and people
looking for new opportunities,etc.
Etc.
Not everyone can move to sanfrancisco and everyone can can
accept a us contract in a way.
So we made the If they can'tcome to us, we come to them, and
then we opened a small officein Switzerland and that enables
(35:02):
us access to talent and so atthe moment it's more like
development people a few there,so to say it's very small, but
as we grow in the clinical spacewe may grow this as well
further.
Yeah, is that home for you oris San Francisco For me?
It's actually a mix betweenEurope and here, so I'm
(35:24):
frequently here and officiallymy home is actually in New
Jersey.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (35:30):
Oh, okay, not quite splitting the
difference, but yeah, that'swhere my home is.
Yeah, very nice.
Um, when you talked aboutcoming out here and spending
your time uh, you know, forgingpartnerships and meeting with
business decision makers, asopposed to sort of trying to
work your way past gatekeepersout there in the real world.
(35:51):
What is how much prep work goesinto that, like making sure
that you're going to be in theright place at the right time,
creating meeting opportunitiesin advance of coming here, or
are you just so good you can,like walk the streets and
recognize all the people youwant to meet with?
Matt Pillar (36:05):
No, I mean certainly you have over years in
pharma industry and then workedin two, three companies, you
have built a network, because Imean people also kind of
branching out right, so they'renot they're moving from
companies to other companies andyou kind of your network grows
a bit in in this way, naturally,right.
So you, you know, former friendfrom roge is now at gilead,
(36:26):
another one is that is atnovartis, and so on, so forth,
so you can reach out and say,hey, can you connect me with a,
b and c right who may beinterested in looking at our
target, right, and this goesboth ways, right, so to say, and
um, and then you, you getconnected and you get contacts
to the people who are relevantin terms of bd, but also
(36:47):
basically who are relevant interms of development and
research, to make a decision inorder is that a molecule this
company may be, may beinterested in and wants to have
in their portfolio, or not?
Yeah, so that's how things workright in this way, and it's a
lot of relationship, businessright.
And this is also why JPMorganis good.
(37:07):
It's kind of you meet them in alet's say also a quote, unquote
social setting, you know, atvarious receptions, and this and
that, and then you can interact.
And canions and this and that,and then you can.
You can interact and canconnect and that speeds the
things up hence the going until11 pm, exactly.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (37:25):
Yeah , last year, at jpm, the, the
tone in virtually everyconversation I had was this cost
cautiously optimistic.
Take that we're climbing out ofa terrible, you know, mna, uh
venture capital market, uh,environment.
Um, I'm not.
(37:45):
I'm not sensing that as muchthis year yet.
Uh, you know, I I feel like Ifeel like the tone is a little
bit more stable now.
What do you think Like?
What do you think Like?
What's your gut tell you about2025 in terms of you know, some
of the activity that's going tomake the world go around for
biotech?
Matt Pillar (38:08):
I think we can probably say we reached bottom
right.
So to say, what's stillpossible to sustain an industry
like biotech and stuff?
Still possible to sustain anindustry like biotech and stuff?
I think there is a lot ofquote-unquote holding pattern
activities going on.
Right, people talk and we'regetting these conversations but
in order to make decisions, Ithink the change in the
(38:29):
administration right in a weekessentially makes people a
little bit pause.
Right?
So you say it's, it's callingfor unpredictable.
Probably what will happen underthe new, ex new administration
from all perspectives,geopolitically, tariffs, right.
What will happen with pharma,um pricing, um m a and all these
(38:52):
types of things?
Right, will there arerestrictions which we have seen
or some people experience?
Will they be lifted?
Will they not?
Will the tariffs come?
Will the economy go up, go down?
These types of things are.
Everyone has a differentperspective and I'm not a banker
, I'm not an economist, but butwhen you speak to the people, a
lot of them kind of saying wewill wait maybe a month to two,
(39:13):
so probably to march, somethinglike that get a feel where the
world is going.
You know where the things aregoing with the new
administration and then I think,if that is quoting quote
positive or neutral to what wesee now.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., (39:27):
Actually I'm cautiously optimistic that
things will go up in 25 yeah,yeah, but it's like everyone
else, charting you know,charting a course right now or
planning the course probablyisn't the smartest thing to do
until we know.
Matt Pillar (39:41):
Exactly so.
We, as I said, our horizon, inorder to finish the race, is not
next six eight weeks, right,our horizon is more six eight
months, you know, because youhave to factor in a bit of a
standstill, so to say, for thenext months, due to the big
changes, I guess, or eventuallybig changes took.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (40:01):
Yeah , yeah, yeah so what work is
going on right now?
Give us a sense for, like whatthe you said you're working on
ind enabling right now.
So what's going on day to dayand what's the next big sort of
milestone for 3T?
Matt Pillar (40:16):
So we, as I said, we have kicked off the
manufacturing part.
So we're waiting basically toget our first kind of GLP
materials, you know, glp-gmpmaterials in our hand to run
kind of in a way in vivo toxstudies, so to say, with organ
widths and this that will tellus if what we have seen in cell
lines and what we have seen inpreclinical thing holds true in,
(40:38):
uh, quoting what human samplesyou know, and and materials.
And then we really gearing upwith writing the phase one
protocol, um preparinginteractions with the fda and
probably ema in europe, um tohave eventually present
representation of the clinicaltrial on both sides of the
Atlantic, you know, for patientrecruitment speed and also
(41:01):
introduction into the market,you know, to get physicians
familiar with the molecule etc.
So that's kind of where 25 willbe a busy year, a very busy
year.
In addition, we have to recruitthe talent we need in order to
make that happen, especially onthe clinical side and clinical
execution side, clinicaloperations.
So that's the next piece whichwill come and then hopefully by
(41:26):
the end of the year we can pushthe button and file for the IND.
Yeah.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (41:31):
Well , I wish you luck on that
endeavor.
What haven't I asked you thismorning that if I were a better
interviewer I would have askedyou?
Matt Pillar (41:39):
uh, there's nothing , I think.
I mean, maybe I asked you aquestion what's what you're
hearing in jp morgan?
What's your feel, basicallywhat's coming out of this?
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (41:48):
uh, you know it's, it's, uh, so, so
it's early for me.
Uh, I I got into town yesterday, uh, like late in the afternoon
, so I I don't have quite thesense just yet.
Like I said, I'm not feeling asmuch sort of trepidation and
caution as I think I did lastyear, but maybe after a few more
meetings I'll pick up on that.
(42:10):
But yeah, I'll let you know.
Matt Pillar (42:13):
No, no, thanks a lot.
It was really fun, really fun.
I really enjoyed it and thanksso much for the opportunity and
your time so did I.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (42:19):
I appreciate you coming on, uh,
like I said, all the way fromthe swiss alps last week, um, so
hopefully we can reconnectmaybe, uh, later in the year
when some clinical plans are arebeing drawn out and we'll catch
up happy to perfect.
So that's 3t biosciences, drstefan share I'm.
I'm Matt Piller.
This is the Business of Biotech, coming to you from JPM 2025.
(42:43):
We drop every Monday morning,so we'll catch you next week and
thanks for listening.
Welcome back to the Business of Biotech JP Morgan
edition.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (00:08):
I'm here in San Francisco with Dr
Stefan Scherer, and the lasttime I talked with Dr Scherer he
was traversing the Swiss Alpsand it was just last week, if
I'm not mistaken.
We started a conversation abouta biotech's transition from the
research phase to clinicalphase, and today in San
(00:29):
Francisco, at JPM, we're goingto carry that conversation on.
Dr Sher, it's a pleasure tohave you.
Thank you for joining me.
Matt Pillar (00:36):
Thanks so much for having me.
It's a pleasure to be here anda pleasure to talk to you.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (00:40):
The pleasure's all mine.
I want to start theconversation with some
background on you.
So you, you're a PhD, md, phd.
You've got experience ininternal medicine and molecular
oncology, and whenever I havethe opportunity to interview an
MD who did some clinical work,I'm always curious about why
they chose the pharma path.
Matt Pillar (01:01):
So take us back to that inflection point in your
life, when you decided you weregoing to move into pharma path.
So take us back to that, yeah,that inflection point in your
life when you decided you weregoing to move into pharma yeah,
definitely so I was alwaysinterested basically in medicine
and this was one of the careersI was early on in my in school
thinking about to to go inmedicine or bio life sciences,
so to say so at that time.
(01:22):
Basically, then I I actually Igot a, I got a place in med
school.
I started it liked it became mdand was treating patients and
that was very rewarding and thisis a very nice.
It's a very nice job it's.
It's um, I really liked it,enjoyed it to help patients, to
treat patients and see basicallythe success, so to to say you
(01:43):
have.
What I was missing there alittle bit was the deeper
science.
I always wanted to understandnot only how to treat patients,
how to diagnose patients, and Ialso wanted to understand what
is the cause of the disease,what drives the disease, what
makes the cancer basicallycancer, why does it come to a
situation that cells mutate andproliferate and don't stop?
(02:06):
And that was a piece which wasat the time when I studied, so
to say, not so much a part ofthe curriculum, so, and then I
decided at that time to branchout basically into a separate
PhD and after that I spent sometime in Albert Einstein doing
research and then actually came,the inflection points here, to
say what to do in a way, how tocombine one and the other in in
(02:29):
medicine and science the bestway.
And and that's kind of whatdrove me to to industry, where I
thought basically drugdevelopment is a piece where
medicine, clinical experience,but also basically science and
scientific input, how to developthe drugs, which kind of
mutations, which of disease,which kind of conditions to
treat, kind of matches.
And this is the moment where Ithought, okay, I try it out and
(02:52):
give it a shot.
And then started in industryand enjoyed actually the
complexity, enjoyed also theinteraction with basically, as I
said, patients on one hand,still science on the other, but
also basically the businessaspect came in.
As I said, patients on one hand, still science on the other,
but also basically the businessaspect came in and I found a
fascinating triangle themedicine, the science and the
business.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (03:13):
Yeah , that business experience is
interesting to me too.
When and where did that comeinto your sort of circle of
influence?
Was it at Westlake Partners?
Matt Pillar (03:24):
No, it was earlier, basically in Big Pharma,
because you learn therebasically that not only to
develop a medicine matters, italso matters basically can the
medicine come to the marketright.
So what's the business aspect?
Because at the end of the day,in order to keep innovation
going, in order to develop thenext drug, you need to return
some of the investment right.
(03:44):
So it means the drug needs tobe successful in the market and
in order to get there, you learnearly on that it's not only
about science and medicine, it'sbasically also you need to
serve the patient and theshareholders.
And in this business aspect youlearn gradually in the process
of being in big pharma and drugdevelopment.
(04:06):
Certainly it's amplified in ifyou work with, with venture
partners or in vcs, like what Idid as an eii in westlake and
later on.
That's certainly amplifiedbecause this is kind of not only
to help one company and onetruck to come to the market.
You want to amplify that and dothis 10, 20, 50, whatever the
capacity of the fund is.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (04:27):
Yeah , did you readily embrace that?
Coming from a scientificbackground, treating patients,
working on the development ofmedicine, did you embrace the
business aspect?
Matt Pillar (04:39):
I mean, in the beginning it was a learning
curve, right?
I mean, in the beginning youcome very much with a scientific
mind and a scientific ormedical head, so to say, and
it's more about science andmedicine.
But it evolves over time, rightover time, you learn that the
business aspect is, I would say,equally important than science
and medicine.
On the other side and and thisis something which you kind of,
(05:03):
when you want to bring yourtruck to the market, you need to
understand what's thecompetition right?
Can I enter the market?
Under which condition can Ienter the market?
What's the pricing schemelooking like?
What will be access?
How can I even make it possiblethat patient can get to the
truck?
Right?
And this is, globally speaking,very diverse and in this aspect
(05:23):
, basically, you learn this veryearly on in a way that business
and commercial parts matterequally as much.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (05:32):
Tell us about the entrepreneur in
residence position at Westlake.
It's an interesting.
I imagine that had to be a veryinteresting position for you.
Tell us what that entails.
Matt Pillar (05:42):
Yeah, westlake has a very interesting model
actually.
So then they look for people whocome with relevant experience
in the field of medicine,translational medicine,
biomarkers, but also basicallythe commercial and business
aspects of of truck development,and with that, basically they
give you the opportunity tobasically look a year, in a way
(06:05):
prospecting so what kind ofcompany you want to work with or
you want to build, actuallywith Westlake in the background,
so to say.
And this is really a year whereyou spend time looking at tons
and tons of opportunities rightacross the board and, with the
help of fest lake, you also havea lot of freedom to kind of
(06:27):
branch out and talk to check, tocheck transfer officers, talk
to universities, basically talkto pharma, because they want to
out license some molecules whichthen they're of strategy, they
don't want to do from adevelopment perspective.
So you learn a lot.
It's it's it's really enriching.
And then after a year, kind ofin a way for me it was nine
(06:49):
months basically I landed at 3Tand was doing basically the due
diligence and identified theopportunity for T-cell
biospecifics as one of which wecertainly were supposed to
invest at that time.
And this is how I transitionedlater then from Westlake into 3T
Biosciences.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (07:09):
What was 3T Biosciences at the time
that you joined?
In what capacity did you jointhe company?
Matt Pillar (07:15):
3T was a platform company.
So there's a platform welicensed out from Stanford,
chris Garcia's lab in Stanford,and it's a very diverse platform
.
It's very cutting edge from aperspective of target ID and
also looking intocross-reactivities.
And this platform wasoutlicensed and the team was
(07:37):
kind of trying to industrializethe platform, to make the
platform more high throughput,to make it basically a platform
which is not only academic andscientific, which also can kind
of bring trucks to the marketand bring and identify molecules
.
At the end of the day, we cantreat patients.
When I joined, this was kind ofa wider portfolio of
opportunities and in variousdirections cell-based therapies,
(08:02):
t-cell biospecifics, etc.
So it was very much a researchcompany.
And then we were sitting downand looking what is the best
opportunity to take it forward,what can we really do with this
platform in order to servepatients, to help patients and
being a little bit more on theforefront of science and
next-generation medicines.
And then we identified theopportunity basically that
T-cell bispecifics could be theniche, if you want, where 3T can
(08:28):
play and which is coming in thenext three, four, five years,
an important modality fortreatment of patients.
And then we focused the companypurely on T cell bispecifics
and solid tumors.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (08:41):
You no doubt had options right
Coming out of Westlake.
Was there a specific hook about3T that compelled you to make
that decision?
Choose 3T?
Matt Pillar (08:53):
Yeah, I mean, 3t was and still is, of course, a
very innovative company.
So what 3T combines is a fewthings.
First of all, it really has aplatform, so it's not a single
agent.
One hit one type of thing right, so one asset and bringing it
to the market and sell it.
It's actually a platform andhas the opportunity to develop
more than one truck.
(09:13):
Second, it has also thecomponents of AI, ml, in a way
embedded in truck development.
So the complexity of theplatform, the complexity of the
data, is beyond the human brain.
So in order to analyze this andin order to match that
basically with human proteomeand these things, you need much,
(09:34):
much more sophisticated methods.
And that was somethingbasically early, early days in
AI.
I mean now is a very differentstory, but in this one that was
fascinating for me, theopportunity, so to say this
platform gives right, and it'snot only a thing.
We can go in oncology, I mean,could go into immunology or
immune diseases.
(09:54):
You could even do vaccines, soto say, with cancer vaccines or
others, I mean, and we're notpursuing these opportunities
mainly also for reasons of focus, and but the diversity and the
opportunity does with a newmodality, kind of, was something
which drawn me to 3T.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (10:11):
Yeah , it's interesting when I have
conversations with biotechfounders who are reflecting on
sort of the partnershipopportunity out there, the the
funding opportunity out, I get amixed bag of reviews on whether
the market is receptive rightnow or at any given point to
platforms, to specific targetsand products.
(10:34):
Ai, ML I mean everybody lovesthat if it's working effectively
.
What's your sense right now ofsort of market receptivity to
the platform concept versus thelead compound that you're
working on?
Matt Pillar (10:47):
Yeah, it's a very interesting question and I mean,
when we started, or when Istarted, with this business,
platform was key.
Right At that time, peopleinvested, or primarily invested,
in companies who had a platformor have access to a platform.
Then all the biotech crisiscame right, a downturn came and
all these things, and this wasalso beginning of COVID 2020,
(11:08):
2021, right.
So, in this way, in this case,and the whole thing shifted to a
much, much more de-risked model.
So people wanted to have assetswhich are in the clinic phase
one, phase two, in essence,basically, who kind of more
de-risked than a platform early,early on assets, so to say,
(11:30):
yeah, then you as, basically, asentrepreneur or as ceo of a
company, you have to switchstrategies because we we
invested in platform, right, andwe wanted to have to run
basically to develop a pipeline,to develop a portfolio and
bring it to the clinic, etcetera, and this takes years.
Yeah, the market conditionshifts in much less than this
(11:52):
many years.
Actually, in half a year, themarket condition was totally
different.
So we had to refocus, right,and then this is where we
refocus basically the companyfully on the asset we have as a
lead asset.
We continue to do pipeline.
We did some business deals withBering-Engelheim in order to
kind of substantiate and haveaccess to additional resources,
(12:15):
and this was basically where wethen ended up in order to make
the lead compound furthersuccessful and were actually
able to bring it to adevelopment candidate.
And now in the ind phase, yeah,when you're talking out
investors, basically what manywant is a pipeline, a portfolio
and something in the clinic.
Of course they do, they want itall exactly so.
(12:36):
And I mean and even now in jpmorgan we talk to companies and
then in the clinic is not goodenough anymore either.
So they want basically thenclinical data.
Yeah, right, so, which meansend of phase one, phase one, b,
phase two, whatever.
And this goalpost shiftingthing is interesting to maneuver
, but it's from a cash runwayperspective it's relatively
(12:59):
difficult because it's almostunplannable.
Yeah, yeah All right.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (13:03):
So I want to spend some time
talking about the transitionfrom R&D to clinical, but before
we do that, let's just spend alittle bit more time talking
about that transition from usingAI and ML developing a platform
, to sort of shifting the focusto the lead compound.
When you went through thatphase, what did that mean from
sort of a personnel andmanagement standpoint for you as
(13:27):
the leader of the company?
Matt Pillar (13:29):
Well, you have to make hard decisions right In in
in this time, and we also had tomake decisions not only on the
on the on the portfolio.
We also had to make the decisionon personnel right, because if
you plan for a big portfolio, ifyou plan for a big portfolio,
if you plan for a big pipelinein a way, five, six, seven
trucks to develop more or lessin parallel, you need a
(13:49):
different set of of scientistsright in the company.
When you learn to need to focus,basically, you focus your
company on on one or two, whatwe did, basically assets and but
also you need to kind of, in away, focus your company, your
hiring plan, your developmentplan from people and a resource
perspective is very different,you know, and then you take
(14:11):
actions on this as well.
Right, and cut down on onpeople, you cut down on on the
hiring plan, you, you reallyfocus the company on all aspects
in order to to do this and thisis managerial, not easy,
because not only it's harddecisions, it's also difficult
to decide, so to say, when youhave two, three compounds in the
lead, which one you want toprocess right forward and
(14:34):
progress forward, and uh, andthat's uh.
That was a lot of, let's say,strategic meetings, um
discussions, deep dive in datain order to find, basically, the
molecule we found.
We thought it's the one to goforward.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (14:50):
Yeah , yeah, tell me a little bit
more about that molecule.
Matt Pillar (14:54):
So we have a molecule.
Now Basically what we do is Tcell bispecifics.
It's essentially kind of anantibody format which one arm
kind of in a way engages with apeptide, hla, expressed on tumor
cells, and the other armengages via CD3 with the T cells
.
And the molecule we identifiedcomes from a patient who
suffered colorectal cancer andthis was a patient who had this
(15:16):
mismatch repair stable MSScolorectal cancer and these
cancers actually are generallynot susceptible for IO.
So any IO treatment in MSS hasnot been successful in the past
and that we identified thistarget, so to say, out of these
patients was high percentage inthis patient, looked in how many
(15:38):
other patients could have thatand really were surprised
because 80 to 90% of coloncancer patients have this target
.
And then we got a little bitlucky here, if you want, right
in a way, with this target.
And then we thought, okay, thisis a big market because
colorectal cancer, especiallyMSS, where IO is not working in
(16:00):
second and third line, there isnot much available for these
patients.
You know, the PFS in first lineis about a year, the PFS in
second line is six months, inthird line is three months.
Yeah, so it goes very much down.
So there's a high unmet medicalneed.
So that kind of couple of thingscame together where we thought
this is a good target right, andthe target is involved in DNA
(16:21):
repair, in genomic stability, soit's very high expressed in
tissues which proliferate.
So by nature tumor cancer is ahigh proliferating tissue, high
proliferating disease, if youwant.
So it's a high expressed targetin this disease entity.
You know, we also see it innormal tumors, this target in
(16:45):
much, much less frequency andthat basically provides us a
very good therapeutic window,you know.
So that we feel we won't have,we won't hit normal tissue, we
won't hit normal expressingtissue but we will definitely
hit tumor tissue.
And that's where we kind of feltlike that's a target which is
worthwhile to pursue Because itis expressed in high
(17:07):
proliferating tissue, it's notonly in colorectal, we also see
it in triple negative breastcancer, we see it in non-small
squamous and a few others.
And that of course again comesback to choices, right, because
we cannot run a phase one trialin five different indications.
So that's the second time youhave to make, basically to make
(17:28):
a decision what is your leadindication right?
And that's where we decided, asthe high unmet medical need is
in many of these indications,but we went for colorectal
cancer.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (17:40):
So you made that decision and your
goal is to be in the clinic in2026.
Is that correct?
Yes, that's correct.
So we to be in the clinic in2026.
Is that?
Matt Pillar (17:45):
correct?
Yes, that's correct.
So we are currently in the INDenabling phase.
We are basically in themanufacturing part.
So we manufacture this targetat the moment with the CDMO and
we'll have an IND, if everythinggoes okay, by end of the year,
early next, and then foresee ourfirst patient being treated in
(18:05):
q2 early q2 26.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph (18:08):
what's the?
Uh, what's the manufacturingenvironment look like for this
particular molecule?
I'm curious, but you knowbispecifics are pretty sexy
right now.
If you will, is the?
Is the outsource manufacturingcommunity?
Uh, is?
Is there capacity in this space?
Matt Pillar (18:26):
There is certainly capacity.
The thing is, on the other hand, for us, manufacturing becomes
a de-risking situation.
Right, because we didn't wantto go to manufacturers who have
no experience in manufacturingby specifics, because that's a
learning curve for them andthat's fine, right, in a way,
and it's all good.
But that poses for us adifferent risk, right, because
(18:47):
we work with someone who is notnecessarily experienced in the
field.
So we went to the big guysright, so to say, and looked at
those who have done this in thepast, who have shown they can do
it, et cetera.
And there is actually quite alot of capacity available right
in in general for this.
And and the manufacturing takesa year, no matter with whom you
(19:11):
talk, right, so it's the sametimelines roughly yeah, yeah,
all right.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (19:16):
So let's talk about that management
transition from from researchto to manufacturing and in
preparation for the clinic.
What does that look like?
And I want to kind of talkabout that from a personnel
standpoint, a funding standpointand maybe partnership
standpoint and whatever else.
I mean, you know you're livingit.
So whatever other sort ofdynamics or forces come into
(19:38):
play, let's unpack that a littlebit.
Matt Pillar (19:41):
Yeah, no, it's a great question and it's a great
topic because, as I said, when Ijoined 3T, we transitioned the
company basically from aresearch platform into a product
development company.
Right, we were looking intowhich product we are developing.
Now we're facing essentiallythe second transition into a
clinical stage.
Biopharma and the people whoworked in 3T and still working
(20:05):
in 3T and we continue to needthem.
There's no change very much.
Researchers, right, they helpto develop, identify the targets
, help to develop the targets,and basically protein scientists
, protein engineers, who reallyhelp to put this molecule, the
complexity of the moleculetogether that it can be
manufactured.
Now, going into clinic, youneed people with clinical
(20:26):
development experience.
Yeah, so we have to add onskills to the company which we
didn't use and we didn't needbefore.
Right, so now, kind of thecompany transitions again into
more clinical stage part.
We need to hire, like, peoplewith the cmo background.
Right, we need people withclinical development experience,
clinical operations, regulatoryaffairs, et cetera, et cetera.
(20:49):
So those are the skill sets.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., (20:55):
Basically , we need to add on at the
moment and they're not so easyto find, yeah, well, yeah, I was
going to ask about that becauseall we hear about is the sort
of dearth in biotech talent.
So what are you doing to solvethat challenge?
Matt Pillar (21:08):
So we certainly do this on many.
We try to pursue it on manyavenues, right, I mean we're
leveraging, of course, as muchas we can, personal networks
right From previous companieswe've worked with and the other
colleagues, so to say, lookinginto that.
We're also engaging, of course,search firms right to help us
with the right talent, becauseif you work in such specialized
(21:31):
field, it doesn't help me if Ifind a clinical developer who
has never done T-cell byspecific cell-based therapies or
anything.
So you need to find not theneedle in the high stack, but
you need someone who has therelevant skill set right in this
one, and that's not so easy,right, because if you want
someone who come in and lead andput his stamp, so to say, on
(21:52):
the program, I mean we need onewho has a relatively speaking
short learning curve.
Yeah, and this is what we'recurrently looking into.
So to find a CMO, find a VP ofclinical looking for clinical
operations, these people is whatis our hiring plan for 2025.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (22:10):
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Yeah, and I imagine that hiringup in anticipation of clinical
(23:17):
development is sort of the tipof the spear on another
inflection point, and that wouldbe funding First you've got to
pay for these people, thenyou're going to have to pay for
some clinical trial activity,which is, which is not, uh,
inconsequential money.
so tell me about preparationsfor that.
Matt Pillar (23:34):
Yeah, I mean the money you need for research is
not is not small, but it'scompared to what you need for
clinic, it's nothing right.
So because I mean manufacturingis easily double-digit millions
, yeah, and no question about it.
I mean clinical is easilydouble digit millions, yeah, and
no question about it.
I mean clinical trial is doubledigit millions, and so we need
to kind of make sure we resourcethe company adequately in order
(23:56):
to get through the clinicaltrial right.
It doesn't help me if I havemoney to get in the clinical
trial but cannot finish it right.
That that's not fair to thepatient, as it's not fair to the
investors.
That's not fair to the company.
So we need to be clear that weresource the company adequately
for that.
So we are now in the race of a Bround, so we're targeting 80 to
(24:16):
100 million.
For that.
We have raised from insiderswho have been investing in the
company previously, currentlyabout 45 million.
So let's say we're halfwaythrough, yeah to to the
fundraise and we're using jpmorgan and of course, also post
jp morgan and the next couple ofmonths to close the round, um,
(24:38):
with another 40 to 50 million.
Yeah, what's?
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (24:42):
Yeah , what's proven, perhaps
challenging in that effort, youknow, I mean you could, could
come at it from any angleReceptivity to an approach that
has heretofore been unsuccessful, which could excite some
investors, could turn someinvestors off, right the
(25:02):
shifting goalposts.
You know what investors arelooking for.
What were you, I guess, whatsort of the temperature of the
investment community communityfor this move into clinicals and
what maybe is standing in theway.
Matt Pillar (25:16):
Yeah, I mean look, I mean the T-SAT by specific is
a relatively speaking new area,but so totally new Right.
There is previous experience,for example.
For example, immunocore was wasable to put chemtrack on the
market for uvul melanoma right,which is very helpful because it
shows it's possible right andit shows a molecule like that
can actually really treat thedisease or can retreat patients
(25:39):
right.
There is others in development.
This is more cs, cancer testisantigens like MHA4, mha8, also
PRAME.
So these developments basicallyhelp.
What is a bit like what we hearoften is exactly where I think
3T can shine in this way is thecross-reactivity, because the
(26:02):
people are a little bit afraidwith these molecules and side
effects.
These molecules are really,really active, so it's really a
hot molecule if you put it intothe patient, right.
So what it binds, it kills, youknow, no matter if it's normal
or no matter if it's tumor,right.
Of course you want tumor, youdon't want the normal.
(26:23):
But what you actually target isactually a kind of a 9, 10, 11
amino acids.
It's a very small peptide, sothe risk that you find a similar
sequence or a homology-basedthing elsewhere in the body is
not zero because it's very smallright, so that you find
(26:46):
something which is equal, eitherequal or homology, equal from a
sequence or from a structuralperspective.
These two things we need toexclude.
And in previous experience inthe clinic you have seen really
very bad side effects, you knowso.
One prominent example is magea3.
Yeah, so people put a head ofagainst mage a3 and then they
(27:10):
said a cross-reactivity withtitan.
Titan is a molecule which isexpressed in cardiomyocytes.
So what happened?
Actually, the patients died oncardiogenic shock because the,
the molecule killed the heartand not only the tumor.
And there is other moleculeswhere basically, side effects
(27:35):
not of this magnitude, butsimilar side effects have been
preventative of developing thesetumors further.
And that's where we think theplatform we have helps, because
we can kind of reduce thesecross-reactivities in these
molecules significantly comparedto what has happened in the
past.
That's an uphill battle, right,in order to explain that to
(27:55):
investors, because they knowthis data, right, and I've seen
this data so to explain themthat the molecule is relatively,
relatively speaking, safe.
You know, I mean we will seeside effects in the clinic,
right, like CRS and a few otherthings, no doubt on this end,
but we won't see these terribleside effects, right what others
have seen and have experienced.
(28:17):
That's basically something youneed to explain to investors,
and this is not easy in thecurrent market.
Yeah, yeah this is not easy inthe current market?
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (28:25):
Yeah , yeah.
What about balancing platformdevelopment and pipeline and
clinical progress, now all sortof at the same time?
How are you tackling that?
Matt Pillar (28:37):
I mean the focus.
Currently, our main focus iscertainly bringing the molecule
into clinic, right into the IND,and this is where probably 80%
of the funding goes to.
Yeah, um, we are notdisregarding pipeline and
certainly not disregardingplatform, because, as I told you
, investors are more attractedto if you have a platform, you
(28:57):
have a pipeline and the moleculein the clinic or close to the
clinic, right, so try to fit thebill.
Yeah, and we try to make this asituation where we kind of be
kind of in the sweet spot, ifyou want, you know, for
investors.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (29:12):
If that sweet spot moves around
again right which it willinevitably right, like tomorrow,
it could be like you know what.
Forget about the platforms weneed.
You know we need molecules inclinic, we need clinical data.
What do you do as the leader ofthe company to sort of obviate
for that, to prepare for it andbe in an agile position to shift
if necessary?
Is it even possible?
Matt Pillar (29:33):
It is.
I mean, as a platform companyit's actually relatively easy
possible Kind of you can Iwouldn't say you would turn it
down, but I mean you can pauseit, right.
So the investment, you're notlosing the platform in a way.
But you can say, okay, we pausethe target ID, which we have
done to a large degree in thepart we had to focus on the lead
(29:54):
molecule, right, and now wewould do similar things.
Basically, so we kind of yeah,if you want, putting less
emphasis on the, on the pipelineand on the platform, certainly
the highest, the highestinvestment and resources go in
the development of the drug andbringing it into the clinic,
because this is where the valueis right.
(30:15):
This is where the value is ingeneral.
This is where the value is ingeneral.
The second piece, basically,would be developing trucks which
are coming after, you know, thesecond and the third molecule
and then the pipeline.
That the target ID would thenkind of really pause and with a
platform, as I mentioned before,this is not too difficult,
right, and you're not destroyingvalue directly because you keep
(30:38):
the platform alive, yeah, butyou're not basically running it
and and running hundreds andthousands of samples over it
yeah, what does it take from aresource perspective to keep a
platform alive, because I meanit, theoretically, it makes
perfect sense, right?
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph. (30:53):
we've got the platform.
We can always fall back to theplatform, go back to the
platform.
What does it keep, or what doesit take to keep that platform
alive and ready when called uponfrom a resource standpoint?
Matt Pillar (31:07):
yeah, I mean you, you cannot basically let all the
people go right or or thinkingabout of kind of stripping the
company down to just clinical.
So this doesn't work right,because rehiring and retraining
the people on a complex platformtakes a lot more time than you
think, right.
So in that essence, you need tokeep a core activity on the
(31:29):
platform going, even if youdon't do it right.
And I mean, in our case it'sactually relatively kind of
fortunate, if you want, becausewe're using the platform not
only for target ID, we're alsousing it for de-risking.
So in any molecule we bring tothe clinic, we need trace and
the trace platform basicallyalso for identifying
(31:50):
cross-reactivities.
So and this is the minimal partof the platform we would leave
alive, right, we would not dotarget ID, but we leave it for
cross-reactivities, and this isjust a different use of the
platform, but it's still thesame platform.
So in this case, we're notlosing people, we're not losing
competencies, we're not losingexpertise.
We would just shift theresources to a different purpose
(32:13):
of the platform.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (32:14):
Yeah , yeah.
So, as I noted, we're here inSan Francisco for JP Morgan 2025
.
It's day two, day two of theconference.
I'm not going to ask for adetailed insight into your
meetings over the course of thelast day or so, but what is sort
of a day in the life of abiotech CEO, or you specifically
(32:39):
look like here?
What are you looking toaccomplish and how are you
spending your time?
Matt Pillar (32:43):
So at the moment, yeah, no, I mean, jp Morgan is a
good venue, you know, to meetpeople from the industry.
Right, it's one of the biggestgatherings, so to say, from
biotech and pharma industry inin the year.
Um, I think the big advantageis also, you meet, you have
easier access to senior leadersin the company, right, if you
(33:04):
want to have partneringdiscussions and um and bd
business development discussionsor kind of also with investors,
etc.
Etc.
So this is easier because thatthe leadership, the decision
makers, say to say, are now atone place.
Yeah, right, if you reach outto a company, then you go
through search and evaluation,you go to to bd, you go to this
(33:27):
and it takes.
It takes a couple of more steps, right, in order to reach the
decision makers and to reach,basically, the people from
development, research, whateveryou need in order to progress
the discussions you know, hereit's all kind of at one place
and the meetings kind of happendirectly, with more decision
makers at the at the table thanit is in other things.
(33:50):
So what we do at the moment isthis kind of an starts at 8 and
ends at 11.
One is every day, so I need abit of a vacation after that.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (34:01):
Yes , 100% You'll be back on the
Swiss Alps next week.
Not really, but I'm thinkingabout it.
Well, that brings up a questionI wanted to ask you.
So, like I said, when we lastspoke last week, you were there,
but 3T is headquartered here inSan Francisco.
Is that correct?
Yeah?
Matt Pillar (34:18):
3T is based in South San Francisco, so it's
where it all started, inStanford.
So to say, right, and we keptthe company and the research
here.
We have a small base inSwitzerland for talent
acquisition, so to say.
I mean, basel is an interestingtown from a pharma perspective.
Right, you have roche, novartisand others, and I mean, as
(34:40):
these companies are alsorestructuring and and people
looking for new opportunities,etc.
Etc.
Not everyone can move to sanfrancisco and everyone can can
accept a us contract in a way.
So we made the If they can'tcome to us, we come to them, and
then we opened a small officein Switzerland and that enables
(35:02):
us access to talent and so atthe moment it's more like
development people a few there,so to say it's very small, but
as we grow in the clinical spacewe may grow this as well
further.
Yeah, is that home for you oris San Francisco For me?
It's actually a mix betweenEurope and here, so I'm
(35:24):
frequently here and officiallymy home is actually in New
Jersey.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (35:30):
Oh, okay, not quite splitting the
difference, but yeah, that'swhere my home is.
Yeah, very nice.
Um, when you talked aboutcoming out here and spending
your time uh, you know, forgingpartnerships and meeting with
business decision makers, asopposed to sort of trying to
work your way past gatekeepersout there in the real world.
(35:51):
What is how much prep work goesinto that, like making sure
that you're going to be in theright place at the right time,
creating meeting opportunitiesin advance of coming here, or
are you just so good you can,like walk the streets and
recognize all the people youwant to meet with?
Matt Pillar (36:05):
No, I mean certainly you have over years in
pharma industry and then workedin two, three companies, you
have built a network, because Imean people also kind of
branching out right, so they'renot they're moving from
companies to other companies andyou kind of your network grows
a bit in in this way, naturally,right.
So you, you know, former friendfrom roge is now at gilead,
(36:26):
another one is that is atnovartis, and so on, so forth,
so you can reach out and say,hey, can you connect me with a,
b and c right who may beinterested in looking at our
target, right, and this goesboth ways, right, so to say, and
um, and then you, you getconnected and you get contacts
to the people who are relevantin terms of bd, but also
(36:47):
basically who are relevant interms of development and
research, to make a decision inorder is that a molecule this
company may be, may beinterested in and wants to have
in their portfolio, or not?
Yeah, so that's how things workright in this way, and it's a
lot of relationship, businessright.
And this is also why JPMorganis good.
(37:07):
It's kind of you meet them in alet's say also a quote, unquote
social setting, you know, atvarious receptions, and this and
that, and then you can interact.
And canions and this and that,and then you can.
You can interact and canconnect and that speeds the
things up hence the going until11 pm, exactly.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (37:25):
Yeah , last year, at jpm, the, the
tone in virtually everyconversation I had was this cost
cautiously optimistic.
Take that we're climbing out ofa terrible, you know, mna, uh
venture capital market, uh,environment.
Um, I'm not.
(37:45):
I'm not sensing that as muchthis year yet.
Uh, you know, I I feel like Ifeel like the tone is a little
bit more stable now.
What do you think Like?
What do you think Like?
What's your gut tell you about2025 in terms of you know, some
of the activity that's going tomake the world go around for
biotech?
Matt Pillar (38:08):
I think we can probably say we reached bottom
right.
So to say, what's stillpossible to sustain an industry
like biotech and stuff?
Still possible to sustain anindustry like biotech and stuff?
I think there is a lot ofquote-unquote holding pattern
activities going on.
Right, people talk and we'regetting these conversations but
in order to make decisions, Ithink the change in the
(38:29):
administration right in a weekessentially makes people a
little bit pause.
Right?
So you say it's, it's callingfor unpredictable.
Probably what will happen underthe new, ex new administration
from all perspectives,geopolitically, tariffs, right.
What will happen with pharma,um pricing, um m a and all these
(38:52):
types of things?
Right, will there arerestrictions which we have seen
or some people experience?
Will they be lifted?
Will they not?
Will the tariffs come?
Will the economy go up, go down?
These types of things are.
Everyone has a differentperspective and I'm not a banker
, I'm not an economist, but butwhen you speak to the people, a
lot of them kind of saying wewill wait maybe a month to two,
(39:13):
so probably to march, somethinglike that get a feel where the
world is going.
You know where the things aregoing with the new
administration and then I think,if that is quoting quote
positive or neutral to what wesee now.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., (39:27):
Actually I'm cautiously optimistic that
things will go up in 25 yeah,yeah, but it's like everyone
else, charting you know,charting a course right now or
planning the course probablyisn't the smartest thing to do
until we know.
Matt Pillar (39:41):
Exactly so.
We, as I said, our horizon, inorder to finish the race, is not
next six eight weeks, right,our horizon is more six eight
months, you know, because youhave to factor in a bit of a
standstill, so to say, for thenext months, due to the big
changes, I guess, or eventuallybig changes took.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (40:01):
Yeah , yeah, yeah so what work is
going on right now?
Give us a sense for, like whatthe you said you're working on
ind enabling right now.
So what's going on day to dayand what's the next big sort of
milestone for 3T?
Matt Pillar (40:16):
So we, as I said, we have kicked off the
manufacturing part.
So we're waiting basically toget our first kind of GLP
materials, you know, glp-gmpmaterials in our hand to run
kind of in a way in vivo toxstudies, so to say, with organ
widths and this that will tellus if what we have seen in cell
lines and what we have seen inpreclinical thing holds true in,
(40:38):
uh, quoting what human samplesyou know, and and materials.
And then we really gearing upwith writing the phase one
protocol, um preparinginteractions with the fda and
probably ema in europe, um tohave eventually present
representation of the clinicaltrial on both sides of the
Atlantic, you know, for patientrecruitment speed and also
(41:01):
introduction into the market,you know, to get physicians
familiar with the molecule etc.
So that's kind of where 25 willbe a busy year, a very busy
year.
In addition, we have to recruitthe talent we need in order to
make that happen, especially onthe clinical side and clinical
execution side, clinicaloperations.
So that's the next piece whichwill come and then hopefully by
(41:26):
the end of the year we can pushthe button and file for the IND.
Yeah.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D (41:31):
Well , I wish you luck on that
endeavor.
What haven't I asked you thismorning that if I were a better
interviewer I would have askedyou?
Matt Pillar (41:39):
uh, there's nothing , I think.
I mean, maybe I asked you aquestion what's what you're
hearing in jp morgan?
What's your feel, basicallywhat's coming out of this?
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (41:48):
uh, you know it's, it's, uh, so, so
it's early for me.
Uh, I I got into town yesterday, uh, like late in the afternoon
, so I I don't have quite thesense just yet.
Like I said, I'm not feeling asmuch sort of trepidation and
caution as I think I did lastyear, but maybe after a few more
meetings I'll pick up on that.
(42:10):
But yeah, I'll let you know.
Matt Pillar (42:13):
No, no, thanks a lot.
It was really fun, really fun.
I really enjoyed it and thanksso much for the opportunity and
your time so did I.
Stefan Scherer, M.D., Ph.D. (42:19):
I appreciate you coming on, uh,
like I said, all the way fromthe swiss alps last week, um, so
hopefully we can reconnectmaybe, uh, later in the year
when some clinical plans are arebeing drawn out and we'll catch
up happy to perfect.
So that's 3t biosciences, drstefan share I'm.
I'm Matt Piller.
This is the Business of Biotech, coming to you from JPM 2025.
(42:43):
We drop every Monday morning,so we'll catch you next week and
thanks for listening.
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