April 30, 2025 • 37 mins
Episode 87 Frederick Dudek (Freddy D) Copyright 2025 Prosperous Ventures, LLC
Question-Based Selling: Transforming Conversations into Conversions with Christian Jack
Today, we’re diving deep into the art of sales with Christian Jack, the mastermind behind the Sales Dojo, where he transforms ordinary salespeople into high performers. The main takeaway here is that sales isn’t about just pitching products; it’s about asking the right questions to uncover what really matters to your prospects. Christian emphasizes the importance of understanding emotional connections in sales, as people buy based on feelings but justify with logic.
We’ll explore how to create a genuine conversation that leads to authentic connections and ultimately, sales. With insights on follow-up strategies and the significance of building rapport, this episode is all about elevating your sales game to a whole new level. So, buckle up and get ready to reshape your approach to selling!
Discover more with our detailed show notes and exclusive content by visiting: https://bit.ly/4k0Fz2s
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The conversation kicks off with a deep dive into the origins of the Sales Dojo, founded by Christian Jack, a notable figure in the realms of influence and high-performance sales coaching. Christian reveals how his journey began with a keen realization that many businesses struggle with effective sales techniques, often leading to missed opportunities for growth. He shares an anecdote about investing heavily in personal sales training, which opened his eyes to the potential that skilled salespeople hold. This realization propelled him to establish the Sales Dojo, where he aims to equip individuals and organizations with the necessary tools to excel in sales. The primary focus of the dojo is not just on techniques, but on fostering a deep understanding of communication, body language, and emotional connection in sales conversations.
As the dialogue unfolds, the podcast emphasizes the importance of a question-based selling approach. Christian highlights that true sales success stems from understanding the emotional triggers behind a buyer's decisions rather than simply pitching features and benefits. This method encourages salespeople to listen more and engage prospects through thoughtful questions, allowing them to arrive at their own conclusions about the product or service being offered. The idea is to shift away from traditional sales tactics that promote talking at customers, instead fostering a collaborative environment where potential clients feel heard and valued. This transformative approach not only aids in closing deals but also cultivates long-term relationships that can turn clients into enthusiastic advocates for the brand.
Towards the end of the episode, the discussion shifts to practical applications of the concepts discussed. Christian shares insightful strategies for follow-up after initial sales meetings, emphasizing that providing value in follow-ups is crucial for maintaining engagement with prospects. Creative follow-up strategies such as personalized messages or thoughtful gifts can significantly enhance the likelihood of securing a sale. The episode concludes with actionable takeaways for listeners, encouraging them to apply a question-based approach in their own sales interactions and to think creatively about their follow-up methods. This blend of personal anecdotes and professional insights makes for an enriching episode that resonates with both seasoned sales professionals and newcomers alike.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(02:00):
Hey, Freddie D. Here in thisepisode, we're joined by Christian
Jack, a master of influence,persuasion and high performance sales
and the founder of the salesdojo. As a sought after sales coach
and growth consultant,Christian helps scale businesses
to eight figures and beyondthrough fractional CRO services,
(02:21):
one on one coaching and customsales training. With the deep focus
in communication, bodylanguage and leadership, he's empowered
hundreds of professionals toelevate their performance, achieve
lasting success both inbusiness and in life.
Welcome, Christian, to theBusiness Superfans podcast.
(02:42):
Thanks so much, Frederick.Excited to be here.
Yeah, we're super excited tohave you here. So tell us a little
bit about the backstory of howthe sales dojo came about.
The good old villainbackstory. I love them. The sales
dojo came about from megetting into business and getting
into sales, going intodifferent businesses and seeing that
(03:06):
one of the biggest, easiest interms of revenue and growth was from
a lack of sales skills andtraining for their salespeople. After
having invested somewherenorth of half a million dollars into
my own training, I reallyenjoy sales. I haven't been in it
for a super long time, but Iplan to be. I just found out how
(03:30):
much more successful peoplecould be if they learned how to do
it correctly. So I decided togo ahead and start the sales dojo.
Helping salespeople,organizations and one thing led to
another.
Oh, interesting story. Salesis a fine art and skill set, so you've
got to really understand it.People buy emotionally, but they
(03:53):
justify it logically. So it'show do you connect with them emotionally
is really one of the arts insales. And the other aspect is to
use your ears more than youuse your mouth.
Very true. God gave you two of them.
Let's talk about your approachand some of the things that you've
(04:15):
learned.
Man, there's a lot to gothrough there. I'd say one of the
bigger overarching principlesthat I live by is definitely leaning
more towards the questionbased selling side of things in sales.
A lot of people, when theycome into it, or business owners
(04:37):
who are selling theirservices, come in with the wrong
expectations, think that salesis this thing where you've naturally
got the gift of the gab or youare able to talk somebody's ear off
until they buy. And it's supernormal. Right? Society portrays that
in movies, social media, andpretty much everywhere that that's
(04:59):
what sales is. But I thinkanybody listening will realize very
quickly that that's not veryhelpful in sales. Instead of talking
at prospective customers, Iwould rather ask questions that allow
this person to realize thingsfor themselves that will really lead
(05:21):
into why. Question basedselling works. One of the biggest
principles in the dojo is whatyou say is gospel, and what I say
is garbage. I don't want to besaying hardly anything in a sales
conversation. I'll be askingquestions that get you to say what
you believe, think, feel aboutthings. Because at the end of the
(05:44):
day, you as a prospect,probably don't really care much about
me as a salesperson. If youcan swallow your ego. The goal is
to get this person to makewhatever decision is best for them
and their future. If that's tomove forward with us, great. If it's
not great. But ultimately, tomake that decision, they have to
come to their own conclusions.They have to come up with their own
ideas. They have to talk abouttheir feelings. So whatever they
(06:07):
say is gospel. In order to getthem to say their gospel, I have
to ask them questions.
Yep. I started out as anengineer and was in the software
industry when it first began.Like I told you before recording,
I started in November 1980 asan applications guy. My first training,
the company was horrible. Backthen we didn't have training programs
(06:31):
and things like that. I hadthe manual, and I'm talking about
training. It's not sales, butit is sales. Because in my world,
and I'm sure in your world,the sale really happens after the
sale. Getting the deal is theeasy part. The sale is everything
that happens after the deal.And so I'm reading a manual. I'm
(06:53):
saying, okay, Christian,here's the commands you need to do
in the computer. We're sittingnext to one another. Obviously, that's
not real good. When I was at acorporation, I was training a group.
The manager, he said it wasthe worst training he's ever seen.
Gave me until tomorrow to getmy act together, or he would call
my boss and have me fired. Ididn't sleep well that night. But
(07:15):
I created engagement training.I stopped talking at people, which
is what a lot of salespeopledo, And I started talking with people
so it'd be like, okay,Christian, what do you think of this
type of thing? And, you know,this command string to generate a
box or whatever. And it's. Ithink it's right. Mike, do you agree
with Christian? Well, I thinkso. Steve, do you agree with both
(07:40):
of those guys? No, it'smissing a syntax. Well, Steve, you're
right. And that's how thetraining began. And that carried
me over into my sales worldbecause I started asking questions
and getting to Understand thechallenges they were dealing with.
I'll bet you noticed a biguplift in the success of that program.
(08:01):
I was the most sought aftertraining guy in the Midwest. I've
trained Eaton Corporation,General Motors, Westinghouse. I mean
the list is pretty long. BallCorporation, I was in the Midwest
and then our company lookedfor salespeople internally and I
raised my hand and I gotpicked. They invested a significant
(08:23):
amount of dollars and I wasflying to Boston from Chicago and
I got six months worth ofsales training. High end stuff.
Beautiful. It's phenomenalwhat happens when you start asking
more questions.
Yeah, it becomes aconversation and you're.
No longer selling, you're justtalking, you're connecting. Exactly.
(08:44):
So let's go further into, youknow, how do you work with people
to really help transform themfrom throwing up, for lack of a better
way of word, but an accurateway? Because as an engineer I was
throwing up. And that's whatchanged me to go into sales. Because
I would see sales guys thatdidn't understand and we just talk
(09:05):
about the features, thetechnology and all the cool stuff.
Nothing about why it wouldhelp the business.
Yeah, usually the way that Istart helping people is diagnosing
where their broken belief setis. Everybody grows up with different
childhoods, differentsituations, different experiences.
(09:28):
The first thing I always coverwas figuring out what is inside their
mind, inside of their mentalmodels, inside their decision making
processes that might beholding them back from accepting
and looking at thingsproperly. As an example, if somebody
comes into sales thinking thatsales is all about pitching the features,
(09:51):
pitching the benefits, I'llask them questions about where think
that comes from, who told thatthat's what sales was about. And
through, shockingly enough,asking questions, we start going
down the path of helping themrealize where those belief sets came
from, where those decisionmaking processes came from. We can
ultimately help people seewhether those are valid or not. And
(10:15):
usually we come across theidea that it's not so valid. Once
we invalidate the root of allof this, there's essentially an empty
flower bed. They get to choosenew decision making patterns and
new beliefs that can servethem. And so from there we can actually
get to work. I can prescribethem a certain part of the course
(10:37):
modules, I can prescribe themto go to these specific coaching
calls. I can prescribe forthem to try this new thing out in
the world. That's one of mypersonal favorite things to do. I
don't know about you,Frederick, but with sales it's so
easy to practice things thatyou would do on A sales call outside
(10:59):
of a sales call, and itsolidifies the learning in your brain
much more when you take thatlearning outside of its usual context,
put it into another, and yougain the experience in that other
context and then bring it backinto sales. So maybe if you struggle
with asking questions insales, start seeing how you can ask
(11:19):
those same questions outsideof a sales call. Start asking questions
to, you know, I'm married. Mywife knows all the questions that
I know in sales because I'vepracticed them with her. You know,
how was your day? Oh, it wasgreat. Oh, what was great about it?
Blah, blah, blah. Like all ofthe little things. So what are your
thoughts on practicing thingsthat you would usually use in a sales
(11:40):
call, but learning how to usethem outside and then bringing them
back into sales for anincreased level of retention or understanding?
It's very important. My nowwife, we've been together for 12
years and just. We eloped afew months ago after 11 plus.
Congratulations.
Thanks. She's in the otherroom right now on sales. She sells
(12:01):
hearing aids over the phone.She's one of the top 15 in the whole
company. The company's northof $100 million in sales. And she
has conversations with peopleand she has a script that she's learned,
but now it's personalized, soit made it her own. So you were talking
(12:22):
earlier about that and it'sall about questions she's asking.
What's the issue with thehearings? You have wax buildup, blah,
blah, blah. And it's aconversation. Some people buy and
some don't because they can'tafford it. They're usually older
people on a fixed income. Butshe's one of her top salespeople,
all because of the questions.That's really it.
(12:44):
Yeah, it's powerful.
When I was sellingmanufacturing software, one of my
successes was I never got intothe features and functions stuff.
My style was very differentback then. We didn't have all the
technology that we have today.This was in the 90s. I started actually
(13:06):
in 86 was my first sales. Igot the plaques on the wall for up
sales guy. My approach wasvery different. I would send out
letters to manufacturingpeople. President, vice president
of engineering and vicepresident of manufacturing, inviting
them to an education seminarabout how technology is changing
(13:27):
the engineering andmanufacturing world. That was my
cold marketing. I would usethe girls in the executive suites.
I hired them to contact thoseguys and invite them for lunch and
learn free. We woulddemonstrate our software about how
it's working and how it'schanging the Technology and the approach,
(13:47):
never really selling, justeducating. They would say, would
you be willing to come intoour office and take a look at our
processes and share with uswill this technology help us or not
help us? That's inviting thefox in the hen house. Yeah, I got
invited in. You invited me in.I didn't ask to come in. And I closed
(14:08):
more sales with that approachbecause once we got in there it was
okay. What are the challenges?What are the financial problems?
Scrapping metal. That's a 20,30,000 piece of metal that screwed
up and you can't use it forthat project. So now you gotta buy
another piece of metal. Howmany of those a year you do? Oh,
you scrap for six. Well, thatjust paid for the technology.
(14:32):
Yeah, it's powerful. Butpeople wouldn't have realized that
unless you had helped themrealize that. Correct?
Correct. You don't sell, youget people to buy.
I think that's what createssuperfans. Right.
What happened? Like this onemold shot. They started out 40 people
(14:55):
and over five years that Iworked with them, they went from
40 people to 140 people. Theybought both buildings on both sides
of them, built breezewaysbetween the two and then beyond.
They were my superfan in thesense that they would have overflow
work. All of a sudden I get aphone call from some guy and it says,
(15:18):
jack over in so and so says Ineed to get this technology because
we're doing overflow work forhim and we have data exchange issues.
What's it cost me? How fastcan you get it in here? That was
a sale. Filling out thepaperwork took me 30 minutes. We
drove there and brought ourequipment. The guy goes, I don't
need to see it again. Like Itold you, just get it to me. So we
(15:41):
filled out the paper, used herfax machine. In fact, it's at the
headquarters and got a sale. Ahundred some thousand bucks.
Easy.
Sales is fun.
It really is. I don't thinkpeople realize how much fun it can
be, especially when you're.
Empowering people and helpingthem. You're solving their problems
(16:04):
or challenges and now you're ahero to them. So they're your super
fan because you transformedtheir business. Like a mentioned
earlier, the sale begins afterthe sale. In my mind, the implementation
of the service or the productneeds to go smoothly. If the implementation
or delivery is a disaster,you've just killed all the goodwill
(16:28):
you created in the beginning.
Yeah, very true. It's the ideathat the selling never stops.
That is exactly correct. Theselling never stops.
Everything in life is selling.From picking up the girl at the bar,
from getting a promotion withyour boss, from getting your kid
(16:49):
to eat the broccoli. Right.Everything is selling and it's always
happening.
What movie are you going to watch?
Yeah, exactly.
Between you and your wife.
Go for dinner now. For mywife, I recently got this set of
dice that have a differentcuisine on each side and so now we
(17:09):
just use that.
But I like that idea.
It's fun. I do have somethingthat I think would be really interesting.
I'm curious if you've everheard of this guy before. His name
is Chase Hughes.
I have no.
Chase Hughes is a worldrenowned behavior profiling and covert
(17:30):
influence specialist. He workswith a lot of three letter agencies
and best in the world at what?He does your podcast here and everybody
listening knows it's aboutcreating super fans. Right? One idea
that I had to bring here thatI prepped beforehand is a way to
create a super fan out ofpretty much anybody in just a couple
(17:53):
of seconds. And I wonder ifyou're open to chatting about it.
Absolutely.
See what you think. A conceptthat Chase talks about is the idea
that every human being iswearing a mask. The next law of that
human behavior is thateverybody acts like they're not wearing
a mask. Right? Everybody wantsto be seen a certain way in a social
(18:15):
context. Chase has distilledthis into six different types of
people and six differentsocial needs. The first one is significance.
Wanting to be seen as standingout from the crowd, leaving an impact
on the world around you. Thenext one is acceptance. It's the
idea of being accepted into agroup. This would be somebody who
(18:36):
wants to be part of biker gangExample. Approval is next. You get
the approval of specificpeople in your life. Maybe you use
self deprecation to getsomebody else to approve of you.
Maybe I would come on with mysales dojo coaching call. Be like
you guys. I don't think I'mactually that good at sales. A little
bit of self deprecation inorder for them to go, yeah, no, Christian,
(18:58):
you're fantastic at sales. Youteach us so much blah, blah, blah.
Intelligence is the next one.You just want to be seen as intelligent.
Next is understanding. Youwant other people to understand how
bad you have it. This issomebody we often view as a bit more
negative. Complaining. Theywant other people to see they've
got it bad, basically. Andthen the last one is power or strength.
(19:20):
You want to be seen aspowerful or strong in a social context
with these six differentsocial needs. The purpose is to Compliment
somebody based on the needsthey have. There's this interesting
mechanism in your brain thatproduces and receives neuropeptides.
You're born with somereceivers, some receptors, each of
(19:42):
those different types ofsocial needs. But your brain will
actually replace the ones thataren't getting used for ones that
are getting used more. Somaybe you're a kid and you're in
sports, maybe a competitivesolo sport. You might get really
well rewarded as a child forstanding out above the crowd, for
(20:04):
beating everybody else. So youmight develop more of this social
need for significance orpower. But then as you grow older,
that affects the way that youoperate in a social environment.
As you up, you're nurtured acertain way and that affects you.
Most people know that. Butonce you know what need somebody
(20:24):
has in a social environment,you can compliment that need and
fire off a bunch ofneuropeptides in their brain that
will naturally make them feelmore connected to you. That will
naturally help them feel like,this person just gets me. That will
naturally help them open upand be maybe a little bit more vulnerable
(20:45):
or be willing to shareinformation that they wouldn't necessarily
share. Chase uses this ininterrogations. He uses this in his
covert influence stuffeverywhere. And so from a superfans
context, you can create asuperfan in just a matter of seconds
by complimenting their need.So this might sound something like,
(21:07):
if I don't know which, whichneed should we do? Frederick, what
do you think? Significance,acceptance, Approval, Intelligence,
understanding or power? Whichone stands out to you the most?
Let's go with. A lot of peoplehave challenges with approval they
want to feel. If you thinkabout it, a lot of people, especially
(21:30):
low level employees. One of myquotes in my book Creating Business
Super Fans is people willcrawl through broken glass for appreciation
and recognition. So very true.Let's go with approval because that
associates with what I just said.
(21:51):
It's true. So if you have thesocial need of approval, basically
you want to be reassured andrecognized by other people. And you
got to be a little bit carefulthere because significance could
also be being recognized byother people as standing apart from
the crowd. And some nuanceshere. But then if you think about
the opposite of what theyneed, what they're afraid of, sometimes
(22:13):
that can help with coming upwith a compliment. If you're needing
approval, you might be mostafraid of being dismissed, disapproved
of, or feeling left out. Sowhen giving an approval mask type
person a compliment, I mightsay something like, frederick, you
do such a fantastic job withthe way that you communicate and
(22:39):
you don't rush through things.You focus on what matters. And ultimately
I think that is justabsolutely fantastic. An approval
need is fairly easy tocompliment, right? Maybe we'll do
a power mask. This one isalways fun. We've probably been in
a sales conversation wheresomebody that's really dominant,
(23:00):
really alpha, they just get tothe end, right? Get to the price.
I don't need to know. Youdon't need to ask me all these questions
about where I'm at. I justneed to know what you do. I'll make
the decision like that sort ofperson. It can help them to open
up to immediately justcompliment them and be like, you
know, Frederick, that'spowerful. I love how you're just
(23:21):
so straight to the point. Ithink a lot of other people in life
just are weak and they don'tunderstand what they want. And I
love that you have thatstrength to be able to go in and
get what you want out of life.Love that. And then you might segue
that into. In order for me togive you what you want. Just help
(23:42):
me understand a little bitmore specifically, what is it that
you want? The simplecompliment can turn people into super
fans of you personally soquickly. It's scientific, it's neurological,
it's chemicals in your brain.And funnily enough, it's pretty hard
to get that part wrong interms of it if you do things properly.
(24:07):
It's a system, it's a process.It works.
Remind me of a short story.Back in my sales days in Chicago,
I went to a railroad carmanufacturer and they were looking
for some technology forengineering and manufacturing. The
engineering manager and I gotalong, but we had to get it approved
from the CEO. He's got signedoff on his project. So we get a meeting
(24:30):
for him. Walk into the officeand I notice it's a monster size
office, glass wall, elo padoutside of the glass wall. So we're
Talking about me, Mr. Power,okay. And he looks at us, he goes,
you got five minutes. Lookedup and said, I appreciate your time.
(24:51):
That's the first thing Istarted off with. He said, okay,
go. So I happened to think andI looked at my watch and proceeded
to give the presentation. AndI looked again, was virtually at
the five minute mark. Youknow, the universe helps you out
every now. And I stopped. Thisis my five minutes are up. And there
(25:13):
was silence in the room. Thenhe smiled because he didn't even
get up, shake our hands,nothing. I mean, it's burned in my
head because this guy was, youKnow mega power.
Yeah.
You saw railroad cars. Bigmoney stuff for sure. Smiles gets
up and asks his engineeringmanager, are you happy with everything?
The guy goes, yes. You go,okay with the numbers and all that
(25:33):
stuff. He goes, okay, hang on,picks up the phone, says, please
prepare a purchase order forMr. Dudek and click, that's it. He
walked around and shook hishand, said, thank you guys for your
time. We were dismissed. Itwas a hundred some thousand sale
one. I acknowledged him forallowing us the time and most important,
(25:54):
I respected his time 100%.
At the end of the day, peopleare people. Sometimes we have these
irrational things that webelieve about the world. If we sit
down in a coaching session andyou're happy to take my advice and
view me as the authority andallow me to help you walk through
(26:15):
it, I can. But then alsosometimes in a sales context, you
maybe don't have thatauthority. Maybe you aren't seen
as higher in status than thisother person. And so just knowing
how to play into the way thatthey view themselves and the way
that they view the world, youwon't figure it out unless you are
(26:38):
inquisitive, unless you'recurious. You ask questions whether
it be internally in your head.Like you walk in that office, you
see the wall of windows, yousee the helipad out there, probably
ask yourself a question in themoment, you're like, huh, I wonder
what that means. I wonder whatthis guy cares about that made him
have this big office and notjust normal sized one. Why the office
(27:00):
with the view of the helipadoutside? Yeah, ego. So you ask yourself
questions in order to then askhim questions. It's just everything,
everything is questions. It's great.
So Christian share a story ofone of the sales that had some challenges
and how you overcame that andwon the deal.
(27:21):
A sale with some challenges,man. One recent one comes to mind.
I was on a zoom call with ayounger girl and she wanting to get
into college but needs helptutoring to get scores up. We got
to the end of the call and shedoesn't control any of her finances,
(27:42):
her father does. And so we gotto the end of the call and I had
already known that was goingto be the case, had the conversation,
then started to inquire about,you know, what the conversation would
be like with her dad, what washis viewpoint on her being able to
go to this school? Was hesupportive of that? Eventually it
(28:02):
came down to the point where Ididn't really feel confidence in
her ability to then explainall of this to her father. In a way
that would actually lead to agood outcome for her and being able
to go to her dream school. Andso essentially we needed to get the
dad on the call and have thisreally interesting conversation with
(28:27):
a protective dad who thedaughter didn't feel like was super
supportive of her going to theschool, who thought that we were
a scam, didn't believe intutoring online, didn't believe in
any of this stuff. And soessentially got on the call and it
was this whole power play,right? The dad who has all the control
(28:50):
of the finances, who wants toprotect his daughter, who knows what's
best for her. So manydifferent things at play there. We
opened the call and it was allabout getting him to let that guard
down and be open to new ideas.In order for somebody to be open,
visualize them in a suit ofarmor. You have to help them take
(29:13):
off one piece of armor at atime to get to the point where they
are more vulnerable, open tothings coming in. That's essentially
what we had to do. I did use acouple of needs, compliments. I knew
that he wanted to be seen assignificant in front of his daughter
as well as powerfulinternally. I could also tell that
(29:36):
he wanted to be seen as partof a group. He had an alumni sweater
for the college he went to. Hehad a Patek on his wrist. So I knew
he wanted to be seen as, youknow, Patek watches as an example,
as opposed to a Rolex. A Rolexis like new money. Patek is different.
It's like older money. Startedkind of piecing all these things
(29:58):
together, profiling him withinthe next seven or eight minutes.
He was completely open,completely vulnerable. He didn't
feel like he needed to be thisstrong, powerful figure in front
of his daughter. Andultimately we were able to help them
make the decision to moveforward. Daughter gets to go to her
dream school, hopefully whenshe puts in the work and everybody
wins.
(30:19):
You said a couple reallyimportant things there, and that's.
You noticed a lot of littlethings. I always say the little things
are the big things. The watch,the jersey. All those things give
you clues to incorporate intothe conversation.
Very true.
(30:40):
So let's go into one more areathat I want to cover, and that is
how important is follow up insales. Timing of follow up, because
that's the other part of the question.
I get the sense that there's astory behind why you're asking.
No, most deals are donebecause of follow up. Thank you for
(31:09):
the time to meet with me. Ifthey're not buying Right then and
there. But it's a salesprocess where it may take several
different visits. You'retalking some high end type ticket
stuff that's not going to bebought in one visit. It's going to
take several visits. You get alead inquiry to your website. I look
at it as you got a 15 minutewindow to respond to it and then
(31:31):
how you respond becomesimportant too. Let's talk about that
a little bit.
I think understanding thereason for the follow up is the most
important thing. Whenever I'mtraining people I want to not just
follow up, the person won'tnecessarily today, but there's a
(31:53):
reason behind when you planyour follow up strategy. It's probably
going to be different fordifferent contexts. Whether you are
a landscaper going aroundneighborhood selling railroad cars
to an executive or sellingtutoring to people trying to get
into college. Number one,understanding what's going on inside
(32:14):
of somebody's head willdictate how often and how intensely
you need to follow up. Onceyou figure that out, you can set
the strategy and say okay, howoften am I going to do this? What
is going to be the game plan?But I say the one thing that I see
people miss the most withfollow up is providing more value.
(32:38):
Rather than being nagginglittle fly. A lot of people will
follow up and just think, youknow, hey, I'm just following up
on this, did you get this?That sort of thing. You might get
one chance at that, but assoon as you do it once, you've probably
ruined your chances for themto open any more of your emails or
(33:00):
to actually take any sort ofconsideration to any more of your
texts because there was novalue there. I think the more creative
you can be with your follow upstrategies the better. Whether it
be sending new content fromsocial media. Memes are fantastic.
Sending gifts are a really bigone when you get into higher level
(33:22):
packages. Personalized giftsbased subtle cues from your conversation,
what they're wearing, whathanging in their office can do really
well. I had a custom piece ofart made for one guy that ultimately
got me six figures incommissions because I sent him that
as a follow up with a littlenote inside. The more creative and
(33:43):
valuable you can make yourfollow ups, the more successful they'll
be. A lot of people justbecause they haven't put enough creativity
or value in their follow upsthink following up isn't worthwhile.
But once you figure out how todo it the right way, it becomes quite
valuable.
Yeah, follow up incorporatessaying thank you, thank you for your
(34:04):
time, thank you for theopportunity. Even if you don't get
the deal, it's important tosay thank you. I'm grateful for the
opportunity to have been ableto present. Maybe today is not the
right time, but let's stay incontact. Don't slam the door closed.
Keep the door open. Because alot of times it's all about timing.
This might not be the righttime, but six months from now, nine
(34:28):
months from now, it may be theright time. So if you handled it
professionally with the thankyou for their time respecting that
person, they'll reach backout. I've had things where a year
later, all of a sudden theycome up and say, hey, you know, we
talked about this, I'm ready.
And maybe they even knowsomebody else that could benefit
(34:51):
from what you're doing as well.
Yep. Frischan, as we comecloser to the end here, how can people
find you and connect with you?
The best way will probably bethe link in the show notes. I've
made a special page just forpeople who are listening here. There's
some free stuff on there, somecheap stuff. The link will be down
(35:12):
there. The SalesDojo cosuperfans if you want to get in contact
with me, you can find mepretty much anywhere. The fastest
response will probably be onFacebook or the contact form on the
salesdojo.co website.
Great conversation that we'vehad. We could talk for hours on sales.
(35:33):
It's fun to actually speak tosomebody that understands the sales
process and everything else.So thank you for sharing all the
great nuggets that you sharedfor our listeners and we look forward
to having you on the show downthe road.
Appreciate you, Frederick.That was a great one.
Hey, Superfan superstar FreddyD. Here before we wrap, here's your
(35:55):
three A Playbook Attract,Advocate and Accelerate youe Business
Power move for today. Here'sthis episode's top insight Elite
Sales don't start with yourpitch. They start with your observation
of the individual, their bodylanguage, environment and tone, followed
by questions that unlockwhat's unspoken. So here's your business
(36:15):
growth action step. Practicethis approach with three people this
week so it becomes secondnature. Then, in live sales settings,
ask real time questions thatuncover what truly drives their decisions.
If today's conversationsparked an idea for you, share it
with a fellow business leaderwho would benefit and grab the full
breakdown in the show. Noteslet's accelerate together and start
(36:38):
creating business super fanswho not only champion your brand,
but accelerate your growth.
Hey, Freddie D. Here in thisepisode, we're joined by Christian
Jack, a master of influence,persuasion and high performance sales
and the founder of the salesdojo. As a sought after sales coach
and growth consultant,Christian helps scale businesses
to eight figures and beyondthrough fractional CRO services,
(02:21):
one on one coaching and customsales training. With the deep focus
in communication, bodylanguage and leadership, he's empowered
hundreds of professionals toelevate their performance, achieve
lasting success both inbusiness and in life.
Welcome, Christian, to theBusiness Superfans podcast.
(02:42):
Thanks so much, Frederick.Excited to be here.
Yeah, we're super excited tohave you here. So tell us a little
bit about the backstory of howthe sales dojo came about.
The good old villainbackstory. I love them. The sales
dojo came about from megetting into business and getting
into sales, going intodifferent businesses and seeing that
(03:06):
one of the biggest, easiest interms of revenue and growth was from
a lack of sales skills andtraining for their salespeople. After
having invested somewherenorth of half a million dollars into
my own training, I reallyenjoy sales. I haven't been in it
for a super long time, but Iplan to be. I just found out how
(03:30):
much more successful peoplecould be if they learned how to do
it correctly. So I decided togo ahead and start the sales dojo.
Helping salespeople,organizations and one thing led to
another.
Oh, interesting story. Salesis a fine art and skill set, so you've
got to really understand it.People buy emotionally, but they
(03:53):
justify it logically. So it'show do you connect with them emotionally
is really one of the arts insales. And the other aspect is to
use your ears more than youuse your mouth.
Very true. God gave you two of them.
Let's talk about your approachand some of the things that you've
(04:15):
learned.
Man, there's a lot to gothrough there. I'd say one of the
bigger overarching principlesthat I live by is definitely leaning
more towards the questionbased selling side of things in sales.
A lot of people, when theycome into it, or business owners
(04:37):
who are selling theirservices, come in with the wrong
expectations, think that salesis this thing where you've naturally
got the gift of the gab or youare able to talk somebody's ear off
until they buy. And it's supernormal. Right? Society portrays that
in movies, social media, andpretty much everywhere that that's
(04:59):
what sales is. But I thinkanybody listening will realize very
quickly that that's not veryhelpful in sales. Instead of talking
at prospective customers, Iwould rather ask questions that allow
this person to realize thingsfor themselves that will really lead
(05:21):
into why. Question basedselling works. One of the biggest
principles in the dojo is whatyou say is gospel, and what I say
is garbage. I don't want to besaying hardly anything in a sales
conversation. I'll be askingquestions that get you to say what
you believe, think, feel aboutthings. Because at the end of the
(05:44):
day, you as a prospect,probably don't really care much about
me as a salesperson. If youcan swallow your ego. The goal is
to get this person to makewhatever decision is best for them
and their future. If that's tomove forward with us, great. If it's
not great. But ultimately, tomake that decision, they have to
come to their own conclusions.They have to come up with their own
ideas. They have to talk abouttheir feelings. So whatever they
(06:07):
say is gospel. In order to getthem to say their gospel, I have
to ask them questions.
Yep. I started out as anengineer and was in the software
industry when it first began.Like I told you before recording,
I started in November 1980 asan applications guy. My first training,
the company was horrible. Backthen we didn't have training programs
(06:31):
and things like that. I hadthe manual, and I'm talking about
training. It's not sales, butit is sales. Because in my world,
and I'm sure in your world,the sale really happens after the
sale. Getting the deal is theeasy part. The sale is everything
that happens after the deal.And so I'm reading a manual. I'm
(06:53):
saying, okay, Christian,here's the commands you need to do
in the computer. We're sittingnext to one another. Obviously, that's
not real good. When I was at acorporation, I was training a group.
The manager, he said it wasthe worst training he's ever seen.
Gave me until tomorrow to getmy act together, or he would call
my boss and have me fired. Ididn't sleep well that night. But
(07:15):
I created engagement training.I stopped talking at people, which
is what a lot of salespeopledo, And I started talking with people
so it'd be like, okay,Christian, what do you think of this
type of thing? And, you know,this command string to generate a
box or whatever. And it's. Ithink it's right. Mike, do you agree
with Christian? Well, I thinkso. Steve, do you agree with both
(07:40):
of those guys? No, it'smissing a syntax. Well, Steve, you're
right. And that's how thetraining began. And that carried
me over into my sales worldbecause I started asking questions
and getting to Understand thechallenges they were dealing with.
I'll bet you noticed a biguplift in the success of that program.
(08:01):
I was the most sought aftertraining guy in the Midwest. I've
trained Eaton Corporation,General Motors, Westinghouse. I mean
the list is pretty long. BallCorporation, I was in the Midwest
and then our company lookedfor salespeople internally and I
raised my hand and I gotpicked. They invested a significant
(08:23):
amount of dollars and I wasflying to Boston from Chicago and
I got six months worth ofsales training. High end stuff.
Beautiful. It's phenomenalwhat happens when you start asking
more questions.
Yeah, it becomes aconversation and you're.
No longer selling, you're justtalking, you're connecting. Exactly.
(08:44):
So let's go further into, youknow, how do you work with people
to really help transform themfrom throwing up, for lack of a better
way of word, but an accurateway? Because as an engineer I was
throwing up. And that's whatchanged me to go into sales. Because
I would see sales guys thatdidn't understand and we just talk
(09:05):
about the features, thetechnology and all the cool stuff.
Nothing about why it wouldhelp the business.
Yeah, usually the way that Istart helping people is diagnosing
where their broken belief setis. Everybody grows up with different
childhoods, differentsituations, different experiences.
(09:28):
The first thing I always coverwas figuring out what is inside their
mind, inside of their mentalmodels, inside their decision making
processes that might beholding them back from accepting
and looking at thingsproperly. As an example, if somebody
comes into sales thinking thatsales is all about pitching the features,
(09:51):
pitching the benefits, I'llask them questions about where think
that comes from, who told thatthat's what sales was about. And
through, shockingly enough,asking questions, we start going
down the path of helping themrealize where those belief sets came
from, where those decisionmaking processes came from. We can
ultimately help people seewhether those are valid or not. And
(10:15):
usually we come across theidea that it's not so valid. Once
we invalidate the root of allof this, there's essentially an empty
flower bed. They get to choosenew decision making patterns and
new beliefs that can servethem. And so from there we can actually
get to work. I can prescribethem a certain part of the course
(10:37):
modules, I can prescribe themto go to these specific coaching
calls. I can prescribe forthem to try this new thing out in
the world. That's one of mypersonal favorite things to do. I
don't know about you,Frederick, but with sales it's so
easy to practice things thatyou would do on A sales call outside
(10:59):
of a sales call, and itsolidifies the learning in your brain
much more when you take thatlearning outside of its usual context,
put it into another, and yougain the experience in that other
context and then bring it backinto sales. So maybe if you struggle
with asking questions insales, start seeing how you can ask
(11:19):
those same questions outsideof a sales call. Start asking questions
to, you know, I'm married. Mywife knows all the questions that
I know in sales because I'vepracticed them with her. You know,
how was your day? Oh, it wasgreat. Oh, what was great about it?
Blah, blah, blah. Like all ofthe little things. So what are your
thoughts on practicing thingsthat you would usually use in a sales
(11:40):
call, but learning how to usethem outside and then bringing them
back into sales for anincreased level of retention or understanding?
It's very important. My nowwife, we've been together for 12
years and just. We eloped afew months ago after 11 plus.
Congratulations.
Thanks. She's in the otherroom right now on sales. She sells
(12:01):
hearing aids over the phone.She's one of the top 15 in the whole
company. The company's northof $100 million in sales. And she
has conversations with peopleand she has a script that she's learned,
but now it's personalized, soit made it her own. So you were talking
(12:22):
earlier about that and it'sall about questions she's asking.
What's the issue with thehearings? You have wax buildup, blah,
blah, blah. And it's aconversation. Some people buy and
some don't because they can'tafford it. They're usually older
people on a fixed income. Butshe's one of her top salespeople,
all because of the questions.That's really it.
(12:44):
Yeah, it's powerful.
When I was sellingmanufacturing software, one of my
successes was I never got intothe features and functions stuff.
My style was very differentback then. We didn't have all the
technology that we have today.This was in the 90s. I started actually
(13:06):
in 86 was my first sales. Igot the plaques on the wall for up
sales guy. My approach wasvery different. I would send out
letters to manufacturingpeople. President, vice president
of engineering and vicepresident of manufacturing, inviting
them to an education seminarabout how technology is changing
(13:27):
the engineering andmanufacturing world. That was my
cold marketing. I would usethe girls in the executive suites.
I hired them to contact thoseguys and invite them for lunch and
learn free. We woulddemonstrate our software about how
it's working and how it'schanging the Technology and the approach,
(13:47):
never really selling, justeducating. They would say, would
you be willing to come intoour office and take a look at our
processes and share with uswill this technology help us or not
help us? That's inviting thefox in the hen house. Yeah, I got
invited in. You invited me in.I didn't ask to come in. And I closed
(14:08):
more sales with that approachbecause once we got in there it was
okay. What are the challenges?What are the financial problems?
Scrapping metal. That's a 20,30,000 piece of metal that screwed
up and you can't use it forthat project. So now you gotta buy
another piece of metal. Howmany of those a year you do? Oh,
you scrap for six. Well, thatjust paid for the technology.
(14:32):
Yeah, it's powerful. Butpeople wouldn't have realized that
unless you had helped themrealize that. Correct?
Correct. You don't sell, youget people to buy.
I think that's what createssuperfans. Right.
What happened? Like this onemold shot. They started out 40 people
(14:55):
and over five years that Iworked with them, they went from
40 people to 140 people. Theybought both buildings on both sides
of them, built breezewaysbetween the two and then beyond.
They were my superfan in thesense that they would have overflow
work. All of a sudden I get aphone call from some guy and it says,
(15:18):
jack over in so and so says Ineed to get this technology because
we're doing overflow work forhim and we have data exchange issues.
What's it cost me? How fastcan you get it in here? That was
a sale. Filling out thepaperwork took me 30 minutes. We
drove there and brought ourequipment. The guy goes, I don't
need to see it again. Like Itold you, just get it to me. So we
(15:41):
filled out the paper, used herfax machine. In fact, it's at the
headquarters and got a sale. Ahundred some thousand bucks.
Easy.
Sales is fun.
It really is. I don't thinkpeople realize how much fun it can
be, especially when you're.
Empowering people and helpingthem. You're solving their problems
(16:04):
or challenges and now you're ahero to them. So they're your super
fan because you transformedtheir business. Like a mentioned
earlier, the sale begins afterthe sale. In my mind, the implementation
of the service or the productneeds to go smoothly. If the implementation
or delivery is a disaster,you've just killed all the goodwill
(16:28):
you created in the beginning.
Yeah, very true. It's the ideathat the selling never stops.
That is exactly correct. Theselling never stops.
Everything in life is selling.From picking up the girl at the bar,
from getting a promotion withyour boss, from getting your kid
(16:49):
to eat the broccoli. Right.Everything is selling and it's always
happening.
What movie are you going to watch?
Yeah, exactly.
Between you and your wife.
Go for dinner now. For mywife, I recently got this set of
dice that have a differentcuisine on each side and so now we
(17:09):
just use that.
But I like that idea.
It's fun. I do have somethingthat I think would be really interesting.
I'm curious if you've everheard of this guy before. His name
is Chase Hughes.
I have no.
Chase Hughes is a worldrenowned behavior profiling and covert
(17:30):
influence specialist. He workswith a lot of three letter agencies
and best in the world at what?He does your podcast here and everybody
listening knows it's aboutcreating super fans. Right? One idea
that I had to bring here thatI prepped beforehand is a way to
create a super fan out ofpretty much anybody in just a couple
(17:53):
of seconds. And I wonder ifyou're open to chatting about it.
Absolutely.
See what you think. A conceptthat Chase talks about is the idea
that every human being iswearing a mask. The next law of that
human behavior is thateverybody acts like they're not wearing
a mask. Right? Everybody wantsto be seen a certain way in a social
(18:15):
context. Chase has distilledthis into six different types of
people and six differentsocial needs. The first one is significance.
Wanting to be seen as standingout from the crowd, leaving an impact
on the world around you. Thenext one is acceptance. It's the
idea of being accepted into agroup. This would be somebody who
(18:36):
wants to be part of biker gangExample. Approval is next. You get
the approval of specificpeople in your life. Maybe you use
self deprecation to getsomebody else to approve of you.
Maybe I would come on with mysales dojo coaching call. Be like
you guys. I don't think I'mactually that good at sales. A little
bit of self deprecation inorder for them to go, yeah, no, Christian,
(18:58):
you're fantastic at sales. Youteach us so much blah, blah, blah.
Intelligence is the next one.You just want to be seen as intelligent.
Next is understanding. Youwant other people to understand how
bad you have it. This issomebody we often view as a bit more
negative. Complaining. Theywant other people to see they've
got it bad, basically. Andthen the last one is power or strength.
(19:20):
You want to be seen aspowerful or strong in a social context
with these six differentsocial needs. The purpose is to Compliment
somebody based on the needsthey have. There's this interesting
mechanism in your brain thatproduces and receives neuropeptides.
You're born with somereceivers, some receptors, each of
(19:42):
those different types ofsocial needs. But your brain will
actually replace the ones thataren't getting used for ones that
are getting used more. Somaybe you're a kid and you're in
sports, maybe a competitivesolo sport. You might get really
well rewarded as a child forstanding out above the crowd, for
(20:04):
beating everybody else. So youmight develop more of this social
need for significance orpower. But then as you grow older,
that affects the way that youoperate in a social environment.
As you up, you're nurtured acertain way and that affects you.
Most people know that. Butonce you know what need somebody
(20:24):
has in a social environment,you can compliment that need and
fire off a bunch ofneuropeptides in their brain that
will naturally make them feelmore connected to you. That will
naturally help them feel like,this person just gets me. That will
naturally help them open upand be maybe a little bit more vulnerable
(20:45):
or be willing to shareinformation that they wouldn't necessarily
share. Chase uses this ininterrogations. He uses this in his
covert influence stuffeverywhere. And so from a superfans
context, you can create asuperfan in just a matter of seconds
by complimenting their need.So this might sound something like,
(21:07):
if I don't know which, whichneed should we do? Frederick, what
do you think? Significance,acceptance, Approval, Intelligence,
understanding or power? Whichone stands out to you the most?
Let's go with. A lot of peoplehave challenges with approval they
want to feel. If you thinkabout it, a lot of people, especially
(21:30):
low level employees. One of myquotes in my book Creating Business
Super Fans is people willcrawl through broken glass for appreciation
and recognition. So very true.Let's go with approval because that
associates with what I just said.
(21:51):
It's true. So if you have thesocial need of approval, basically
you want to be reassured andrecognized by other people. And you
got to be a little bit carefulthere because significance could
also be being recognized byother people as standing apart from
the crowd. And some nuanceshere. But then if you think about
the opposite of what theyneed, what they're afraid of, sometimes
(22:13):
that can help with coming upwith a compliment. If you're needing
approval, you might be mostafraid of being dismissed, disapproved
of, or feeling left out. Sowhen giving an approval mask type
person a compliment, I mightsay something like, frederick, you
do such a fantastic job withthe way that you communicate and
(22:39):
you don't rush through things.You focus on what matters. And ultimately
I think that is justabsolutely fantastic. An approval
need is fairly easy tocompliment, right? Maybe we'll do
a power mask. This one isalways fun. We've probably been in
a sales conversation wheresomebody that's really dominant,
(23:00):
really alpha, they just get tothe end, right? Get to the price.
I don't need to know. Youdon't need to ask me all these questions
about where I'm at. I justneed to know what you do. I'll make
the decision like that sort ofperson. It can help them to open
up to immediately justcompliment them and be like, you
know, Frederick, that'spowerful. I love how you're just
(23:21):
so straight to the point. Ithink a lot of other people in life
just are weak and they don'tunderstand what they want. And I
love that you have thatstrength to be able to go in and
get what you want out of life.Love that. And then you might segue
that into. In order for me togive you what you want. Just help
(23:42):
me understand a little bitmore specifically, what is it that
you want? The simplecompliment can turn people into super
fans of you personally soquickly. It's scientific, it's neurological,
it's chemicals in your brain.And funnily enough, it's pretty hard
to get that part wrong interms of it if you do things properly.
(24:07):
It's a system, it's a process.It works.
Remind me of a short story.Back in my sales days in Chicago,
I went to a railroad carmanufacturer and they were looking
for some technology forengineering and manufacturing. The
engineering manager and I gotalong, but we had to get it approved
from the CEO. He's got signedoff on his project. So we get a meeting
(24:30):
for him. Walk into the officeand I notice it's a monster size
office, glass wall, elo padoutside of the glass wall. So we're
Talking about me, Mr. Power,okay. And he looks at us, he goes,
you got five minutes. Lookedup and said, I appreciate your time.
(24:51):
That's the first thing Istarted off with. He said, okay,
go. So I happened to think andI looked at my watch and proceeded
to give the presentation. AndI looked again, was virtually at
the five minute mark. Youknow, the universe helps you out
every now. And I stopped. Thisis my five minutes are up. And there
(25:13):
was silence in the room. Thenhe smiled because he didn't even
get up, shake our hands,nothing. I mean, it's burned in my
head because this guy was, youKnow mega power.
Yeah.
You saw railroad cars. Bigmoney stuff for sure. Smiles gets
up and asks his engineeringmanager, are you happy with everything?
The guy goes, yes. You go,okay with the numbers and all that
(25:33):
stuff. He goes, okay, hang on,picks up the phone, says, please
prepare a purchase order forMr. Dudek and click, that's it. He
walked around and shook hishand, said, thank you guys for your
time. We were dismissed. Itwas a hundred some thousand sale
one. I acknowledged him forallowing us the time and most important,
(25:54):
I respected his time 100%.
At the end of the day, peopleare people. Sometimes we have these
irrational things that webelieve about the world. If we sit
down in a coaching session andyou're happy to take my advice and
view me as the authority andallow me to help you walk through
(26:15):
it, I can. But then alsosometimes in a sales context, you
maybe don't have thatauthority. Maybe you aren't seen
as higher in status than thisother person. And so just knowing
how to play into the way thatthey view themselves and the way
that they view the world, youwon't figure it out unless you are
(26:38):
inquisitive, unless you'recurious. You ask questions whether
it be internally in your head.Like you walk in that office, you
see the wall of windows, yousee the helipad out there, probably
ask yourself a question in themoment, you're like, huh, I wonder
what that means. I wonder whatthis guy cares about that made him
have this big office and notjust normal sized one. Why the office
(27:00):
with the view of the helipadoutside? Yeah, ego. So you ask yourself
questions in order to then askhim questions. It's just everything,
everything is questions. It's great.
So Christian share a story ofone of the sales that had some challenges
and how you overcame that andwon the deal.
(27:21):
A sale with some challenges,man. One recent one comes to mind.
I was on a zoom call with ayounger girl and she wanting to get
into college but needs helptutoring to get scores up. We got
to the end of the call and shedoesn't control any of her finances,
(27:42):
her father does. And so we gotto the end of the call and I had
already known that was goingto be the case, had the conversation,
then started to inquire about,you know, what the conversation would
be like with her dad, what washis viewpoint on her being able to
go to this school? Was hesupportive of that? Eventually it
(28:02):
came down to the point where Ididn't really feel confidence in
her ability to then explainall of this to her father. In a way
that would actually lead to agood outcome for her and being able
to go to her dream school. Andso essentially we needed to get the
dad on the call and have thisreally interesting conversation with
(28:27):
a protective dad who thedaughter didn't feel like was super
supportive of her going to theschool, who thought that we were
a scam, didn't believe intutoring online, didn't believe in
any of this stuff. And soessentially got on the call and it
was this whole power play,right? The dad who has all the control
(28:50):
of the finances, who wants toprotect his daughter, who knows what's
best for her. So manydifferent things at play there. We
opened the call and it was allabout getting him to let that guard
down and be open to new ideas.In order for somebody to be open,
visualize them in a suit ofarmor. You have to help them take
(29:13):
off one piece of armor at atime to get to the point where they
are more vulnerable, open tothings coming in. That's essentially
what we had to do. I did use acouple of needs, compliments. I knew
that he wanted to be seen assignificant in front of his daughter
as well as powerfulinternally. I could also tell that
(29:36):
he wanted to be seen as partof a group. He had an alumni sweater
for the college he went to. Hehad a Patek on his wrist. So I knew
he wanted to be seen as, youknow, Patek watches as an example,
as opposed to a Rolex. A Rolexis like new money. Patek is different.
It's like older money. Startedkind of piecing all these things
(29:58):
together, profiling him withinthe next seven or eight minutes.
He was completely open,completely vulnerable. He didn't
feel like he needed to be thisstrong, powerful figure in front
of his daughter. Andultimately we were able to help them
make the decision to moveforward. Daughter gets to go to her
dream school, hopefully whenshe puts in the work and everybody
wins.
(30:19):
You said a couple reallyimportant things there, and that's.
You noticed a lot of littlethings. I always say the little things
are the big things. The watch,the jersey. All those things give
you clues to incorporate intothe conversation.
Very true.
(30:40):
So let's go into one more areathat I want to cover, and that is
how important is follow up insales. Timing of follow up, because
that's the other part of the question.
I get the sense that there's astory behind why you're asking.
No, most deals are donebecause of follow up. Thank you for
(31:09):
the time to meet with me. Ifthey're not buying Right then and
there. But it's a salesprocess where it may take several
different visits. You'retalking some high end type ticket
stuff that's not going to bebought in one visit. It's going to
take several visits. You get alead inquiry to your website. I look
at it as you got a 15 minutewindow to respond to it and then
(31:31):
how you respond becomesimportant too. Let's talk about that
a little bit.
I think understanding thereason for the follow up is the most
important thing. Whenever I'mtraining people I want to not just
follow up, the person won'tnecessarily today, but there's a
(31:53):
reason behind when you planyour follow up strategy. It's probably
going to be different fordifferent contexts. Whether you are
a landscaper going aroundneighborhood selling railroad cars
to an executive or sellingtutoring to people trying to get
into college. Number one,understanding what's going on inside
(32:14):
of somebody's head willdictate how often and how intensely
you need to follow up. Onceyou figure that out, you can set
the strategy and say okay, howoften am I going to do this? What
is going to be the game plan?But I say the one thing that I see
people miss the most withfollow up is providing more value.
(32:38):
Rather than being nagginglittle fly. A lot of people will
follow up and just think, youknow, hey, I'm just following up
on this, did you get this?That sort of thing. You might get
one chance at that, but assoon as you do it once, you've probably
ruined your chances for themto open any more of your emails or
(33:00):
to actually take any sort ofconsideration to any more of your
texts because there was novalue there. I think the more creative
you can be with your follow upstrategies the better. Whether it
be sending new content fromsocial media. Memes are fantastic.
Sending gifts are a really bigone when you get into higher level
(33:22):
packages. Personalized giftsbased subtle cues from your conversation,
what they're wearing, whathanging in their office can do really
well. I had a custom piece ofart made for one guy that ultimately
got me six figures incommissions because I sent him that
as a follow up with a littlenote inside. The more creative and
(33:43):
valuable you can make yourfollow ups, the more successful they'll
be. A lot of people justbecause they haven't put enough creativity
or value in their follow upsthink following up isn't worthwhile.
But once you figure out how todo it the right way, it becomes quite
valuable.
Yeah, follow up incorporatessaying thank you, thank you for your
(34:04):
time, thank you for theopportunity. Even if you don't get
the deal, it's important tosay thank you. I'm grateful for the
opportunity to have been ableto present. Maybe today is not the
right time, but let's stay incontact. Don't slam the door closed.
Keep the door open. Because alot of times it's all about timing.
This might not be the righttime, but six months from now, nine
(34:28):
months from now, it may be theright time. So if you handled it
professionally with the thankyou for their time respecting that
person, they'll reach backout. I've had things where a year
later, all of a sudden theycome up and say, hey, you know, we
talked about this, I'm ready.
And maybe they even knowsomebody else that could benefit
(34:51):
from what you're doing as well.
Yep. Frischan, as we comecloser to the end here, how can people
find you and connect with you?
The best way will probably bethe link in the show notes. I've
made a special page just forpeople who are listening here. There's
some free stuff on there, somecheap stuff. The link will be down
(35:12):
there. The SalesDojo cosuperfans if you want to get in contact
with me, you can find mepretty much anywhere. The fastest
response will probably be onFacebook or the contact form on the
salesdojo.co website.
Great conversation that we'vehad. We could talk for hours on sales.
(35:33):
It's fun to actually speak tosomebody that understands the sales
process and everything else.So thank you for sharing all the
great nuggets that you sharedfor our listeners and we look forward
to having you on the show downthe road.
Appreciate you, Frederick.That was a great one.
Hey, Superfan superstar FreddyD. Here before we wrap, here's your
(35:55):
three A Playbook Attract,Advocate and Accelerate youe Business
Power move for today. Here'sthis episode's top insight Elite
Sales don't start with yourpitch. They start with your observation
of the individual, their bodylanguage, environment and tone, followed
by questions that unlockwhat's unspoken. So here's your business
(36:15):
growth action step. Practicethis approach with three people this
week so it becomes secondnature. Then, in live sales settings,
ask real time questions thatuncover what truly drives their decisions.
If today's conversationsparked an idea for you, share it
with a fellow business leaderwho would benefit and grab the full
breakdown in the show. Noteslet's accelerate together and start
(36:38):
creating business super fanswho not only champion your brand,
but accelerate your growth.
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