May 12, 2025 • 35 mins
Episode 96 The Art of Standing Out: Barry LaBov on Differentiation and Success Frederick Dudek (Freddy D) Copyright 2025 Prosperous Ventures, LLC
Barry LaBov, a two-time Ernst & Young Entrepreneur of the Year and founder of LaBov Marketing Communications and Training, brings a wealth of knowledge to our discussion focused on brand differentiation. He emphasizes that true differentiation starts from within a company—if employees don’t see what makes their brand special, customers won’t either.
Throughout the episode, we dive into Barry's journey from musician to brand strategist, exploring how creativity and collaboration are central to his approach. His insights are particularly relevant in today's landscape, where employee engagement is crucial for success. We also touch on practical strategies for businesses to celebrate their uniqueness and foster a culture that empowers both employees and customers.
Discover more with our detailed show notes and exclusive content by visiting: https://bit.ly/4kkZ9qq
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The conversation with Barry LaBov is not just about branding; it’s a deep dive into the philosophy that drives successful businesses today. Barry, a two-time Ernst and Young Entrepreneur of the Year, shares his unique journey from music to marketing, illustrating how the creativity and collaboration essential in the music world translate powerfully into brand strategy. He emphasizes the importance of differentiation, asserting that understanding what makes a brand unique is crucial for both internal morale and external market presence. Barry’s company, Labov Marketing Communications and Training, is built on this principle, focusing on helping organizations identify their core differentiators and celebrate them both internally and externally.
Barry's insights are particularly poignant in today’s competitive landscape, where many companies struggle with commoditization. He recounts transformative stories of businesses he’s worked with, including a copper producer that shifted from being viewed as a commodity to a recognized brand through a thoughtful rebranding strategy. By renaming the company and highlighting its sustainable practices, they not only improved their market position but also empowered their employees, turning them into passionate advocates for the brand. This narrative underscores Barry’s core message: for brands to truly resonate with customers, they must first instill a sense of pride and belief in their employees.
As the discussion unfolds, Barry shares actionable strategies for leaders looking to enhance their branding efforts. He advocates for cultivating a strong internal culture that champions differentiation, urging businesses to celebrate their unique qualities as if they were launching a new product. The episode wraps with a powerful reminder that the journey to brand excellence begins from within, and organizations that successfully engage their employees will ultimately create loyal customers who act as superfans in the marketplace. Barry’s insights not only challenge conventional branding wisdom but also inspire a new approach to building meaningful connections between brands and their audiences.
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Takeaways:
- Barry LaBov emphasizes the importance of differentiation, stating that without a unique brand identity, companies risk becoming mere commodities in their market.
- Creating a collaborative company culture is vital; Barry believes that employees who feel valued and connected are...
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(02:02):
Hey Superfan superstar FreddieD. Here in this episode 96 we're
joined by Barry Labov, a twotime Ernest and Young Entrepreneur
of the Year, celebrated authorand the founder of Labov Marketing
Communications and Training.Barry is a powerhouse brand strategist
who helps companies uncoverand amplify what makes them truly
(02:23):
unique, empowering both theirteams and their customers. His Amazon
best selling book the Power ofWin Hearts, Minds and Market Share
captures his compellingapproach to brand and leadership.
Barry is also the co host ofDifference Talks, a podcast where
(02:43):
he and the Labov team divedeep into conversations with top
selling authors, CEOs andperformers from the worlds of sports
and music. With clients likeHarley Davidson, Copperworks and
audie, and nearly 100 podcastappearances under his belt, Barry
brings a wealth of energy,experience and insights into every
(03:05):
conversation.
Welcome Barry to the BusinessSuperfans podcast.
Frederick, thank you verymuch. I'm excited. You and I share
a lot of things in common. Ithink we're going to have a lot of
fun.
We had a great pre recordingconversation, so I'm excited about
it. Let's jump right into itBarry, and what's the best backstory?
I know that you played alittle bit of a musician. And how
(03:27):
do you go from musician tocreating the agency that you have
today?
It was all an accident. Ididn't mean to do it for Edric, but
what happened was I as a youngkid, teenager, started to write songs
playing a band with mybrother. Then some really old guys
that were like 18, 19 or 20joined in. I didn't realize this
(03:48):
at the moment, but I wasrunning a small business, I was doing
a lot of creative things and Ihad to inspire everybody in the band
to show up on time, performtheir best, entertain the audience,
get raving fans that wanted usto come back. As I did all of that,
I started to realize that whatI love most is creativity. Not so
(04:11):
much just music, butcreativity. That launched my company.
Today, 40 plus years later, Ihave a company. We're doing work
nationally andinternationally. I still run the
company like it's a rock band.I look for the talent in people.
I look to inspire them toperform. I try to get my clients
(04:33):
to realize how much we'rebringing to the table. So it's been
a natural extension. Althoughkind of a bizarre journey.
It's an interesting story.What are some of the songs that you
had wrote and put out?
I had songs published by BarryManilone, Natalie Cole and Billy
Joel. I had a song on MTV andVH1 called on a Night like this.
(04:59):
All in all, if you add it allup, my song sold well under 1 million
copies. So I didn't make anymoney on it. To this day, I get royalty
checks every few months forfive bucks, eight bucks, and maybe
that buys you a cup of coffee.
So tell us a little bit moreabout Labov Agency and what is it
that you guys do?
(05:20):
We focus on one thing and onething only, and that's differentiation.
We identify the uniquenessthat a brand has, whether it's a
small company, large company,nonprofit, for profit. We discover
it and help the client, nameit and promote it. And most important,
(05:40):
and Freddie D. Loves this, Iguarantee it. We celebrate it first
with the most importantaudience, the employees, the people
behind it. Suppliers could bedealers, whatever. They have to feel
that they're doing somethingexciting, significant and meaningful.
And once that happens, theyare your army and they're going out
(06:01):
in the world and they want togo wage battle for you. That's what
I do.
So let's go back into rightthere where we talked about team,
because the team is everythingand it all begins with the culture
of the company.
Right?
So what is it that you do andshare for our listeners so that they
can learn from this is theimportance of really bringing on
(06:23):
the right people and makingsure that the team collaborates as
a team and acts as a teamversus differentiating that one,
this department, and I'm thatdepartment, and it becomes a non
collaborative situation.
I think what's most importantis choose the words that describe
(06:44):
what you're all about. So ifyou have a mission statement, a vision
statement, whatever, if it'sthe same generic stuff that everybody
says we're here for, value,integrity, service selection, all
that kind of stuff, nobodycares. So determine those few words
that are unique to you. So oneof the few words for my company is
(07:07):
jam. Like a jam session. Wetalk to people right off the bat.
When we interview them, we go,look, we are so collaborative, it's
almost to a fault. I mean,we're crazy collaborative. We work
together all the time. Webounce things off each other every
day. And a lot of times peoplewill go, oh, that's great. And I'll
(07:28):
go, let me give you anexample. We seldom say, hey, you
go talk to the client and youown that client and you're the only
person that represents us tothe client. We don't do that once
in a while. You may talk tothe client one on one, but we have.
Could be a writer, could be avideo person, could be a social media
person, could Be somebody elsewith you talking to the client and
(07:52):
bouncing ideas. And we do itall the time. Now, this may sound
interesting to the audiencebecause it sounds like, well, everybody
wants that. No, they don't.I've had people go, now, wait a minute.
I want to be the face ofLabov. I want to be the face. And
I go, I'm so glad you broughtthat up. It won't work because we
have people that share in therelationships. That's the way we
(08:14):
do it with clients. We haveclients who know virtually everybody
in the company. We are not thecompany where one person. We have
had people that go, well, I'mnot sure I can do that. We go, good.
So I think you got to standfor something. For us, it's not just,
hey, let's have a nice time.Our core values include jamming.
(08:37):
You come on board, you got tobe ready to collaborate, listen to
other people's ideas, and thatmeans you have an idea. So somebody
may have an idea to improveyour idea. We look at that as great.
Answering your question ingeneral, I would be that way. It's
really important that we letpeople know that we are not a one
(08:57):
size fits all. We have to beable to present what our company
is about and what is the endresult for the customer. Are we here
just to make money off thosepeople? If so, you got to know that
when you're coming in. We tellour employees when they're coming
on board that we are thepeople behind great brands and great
(09:19):
people. It's never about us.It's not an ego thing for us. We're
not the superstars. We're theones protecting and helping and guiding.
That's what I think you haveto do. You got to realize that if
you can describe your cultureand it's not for everybody, you have
a better chance of getting theright person.
Oh, absolutely. Agree 100%.Because when I got back into the
(09:43):
computer industry in the1980s, we had a team of applications
guys, salespeople, managementand marketing department. We got
all involved in dealing withour customers. When our prospective
customers would come in, wewould all meet with them so everybody
understood work. You know, onFridays, we would go out for a happy
(10:05):
hour as a team and just hangout and have fun. And I'm still friends
45 years later with some ofthose people who've gone in different
directions, but we're stillfriends. And we still talk about
some of those great times wehad in the company and how we scaled
our office because we werepart of a Large organization, but
(10:26):
totally agreed and we hadcamaraderie. Right.
And I think what's veryimportant, you mentioned this a little
bit earlier, but I want tobounce off this too is we cannot
allow silos in our companies.People know when I'm bored, we don't
recognize silos. Now this ismy culture. I'm not saying it's everybody's,
(10:48):
but you can talk to anybodyyou want. If you have a question,
an idea, a concern, it doesn'tmatter because it's not one department
versus another versus another.At our company, we have a very, very
impressive bonus program.Everybody, every department, everyone,
(11:08):
regardless of their age orstatus, shares equally because our
administrative operationsperson is very valuable. It's not
the salesperson makes all theextra money. When we do well, we
all share in it. I think it'scritical. And today more than ever,
the idea of silos and usversus them just not work. It's not
(11:30):
sustainable.
Not in today's world. No.You've got to have a collaborative
scenario. I like what you saidabout sharing everything within the
organization because I've runsome companies and that was really
the differentiator. Everybodynow has ownership into the success
of the company. And thenyou've got everybody in the racing
(11:53):
rowboat so that even thougheverybody's got a single or in the
eight man rowboat, they're allrowing in synchronization and going
in that direction. Becausethere is a vision, there is a direction,
there is a belief. And if youget the win, everybody shares in
the win. Now everybody's muchmore glued together and has got everybody's
(12:13):
back. And that's a realdifferentiating of companies that
really scale rapidly. And it'sa very cost effective approach because
you're not going through andkeep hiring and rehiring and people
leaving and retraining andlosing all that money. So it's a
different mindset than a lotof companies, but it's a very profitable
(12:35):
mindset.
The thing I'll also share, andthis is how I convince some CEOs
who go, look, you don't needto do this big celebration thing
with our people. I mean, comeon, they're getting paid money, let's
just get going. And I go, no,no, no, you got to understand, we
have to celebrate theirperformance and what they do to make
(12:55):
this work. Because you wanthigh quality in your factory or company,
whatever the situation, youwant high retention. If a person
feels that what they're doingis not that special, it's no big
deal. Number one, why wouldthey Do a good job. And number two,
why do they even want to stay?So it's really smart to celebrate
(13:18):
now. It's got to be authentic.You can't say to everybody, hey,
it's a participation award.You're all here. Everybody's great.
We have to be able to talk tohuman beings and intelligently say,
here's what we're all about.Here's why each of you are doing
what you're doing. And by theway, so and so in operations did
this yesterday, and that wasso great. That helped us. And all
(13:40):
of a sudden, he or she'sgoing, wow, I'm actually part of
what's going on here. I'm notsome person way in the back. I'm
right there, front and center.So it's smart to do, and it is profitable.
Yeah.
One of my quotes in my book ispeople will crawl through broken
glass for appreciation and recognition.
(14:00):
Right?
And, you know, when I used torun global sales for a software company,
years ago, when we hit acertain threshold, I invited everybody
into the conference. Thesoftware developers, everybody in
there. And it was an impromptumeeting. They had no idea what was
going on. Even the owner hadno idea. And what I did was I had
food set up and some bottlesof champagne and said, guess what?
(14:21):
We just hit this mark in salesfor the quarter. And it's because
of you guys, because at theend of the day, it's them that made
it happen. As well asmarketing through resellers. They
were independent distributors,and I would recognize them as well.
But that's so important. Let'spivot a little bit and share story
(14:41):
of how you guys worked withone of your customers and transformed
them into superfan that's nowpromoting you to other businesses.
I'll give an example. There'sa company that is a copper producer.
They were looked at as acommodity. And that's one of the
things I focus on in my book,which is to fight this commodity
(15:06):
monster, because it'll eat youalive. So they came to us. They had
a really boring name. Nobodywould even understand what they are
or who they were. We wentthrough our process. We went through
five steps. First thing we didwith them is we talked to their employees,
their leadership, theircustomers, their suppliers, their
community, and said, okay, whoare these people? What do they do?
(15:28):
And what should they never,ever change? Because that's an important
question. What should they notchange? Because a lot of times entrepreneurs
will change anything.Sometimes we're doing something really
great. Let's not change it.Maybe that's why people come to work
here. Maybe that's why peoplebuy from us. Maybe that's why they
are super fans. Let's notchange that. The next step we did
(15:49):
with this company was we wentinto their facility to look for differentiation
either in their product, theirprocesses, their procedures, whatever.
And we found a number of veryinteresting things they were doing
and providing that were rightin front of them, that they were
too close to. They didn't evensee. And we said, isn't this unique?
(16:09):
And they, well, yeah, I guess.So. What did you call this? What
do you name it? Well, we don'tcall it anything. Okay, well, we're
going to name it and we'regoing to help promote it. So then
we went to the next stage. Wedid a jam session with them. We came
up with ideas. We put togethera plan. And one of the things we
did was we said, you need areal name for your company. And the
(16:32):
CEO said, I love it. We namedthem Copperworks. Their slogan is
where copper works? And wecame up with campaigns and we're
ready to launch it. But thenwe launched it to the most important
people in the world, theiremployees. Now, Frederick, this was
during COVID So this was avirtual launch. Everybody in the
(16:55):
company got a box sent totheir house the day before with a
note that says, do not opentill tomorrow. They opened the box
and found all these reallywonderful things, Even a craft beer
with Copperworks on there.Their new logo, new name. We celebrated
this with all their employees,and there were several people from
(17:15):
all over the world that wereon there as well. Once we did that,
we also identified one oftheir differentiators. Their differentiator
was they had a highlysustainable copper product they were
making. They were charging lowmoney for this low dollar. They made
almost no profit on it. And wesaid, hold on, this is your best
(17:38):
product because it'ssustainable. They turned everything
around. We named that product.Today, they are the most profitable
company in their segment.Their sales are sky high, and they
are the premium product.That's an example. But that's all
(17:59):
from them discovering with us,we help them, but them discovering
what made them unique andreally, really emphasizing it.
So you've transformed theminto a super fan of what you guys
do. But more importantly,you've transformed that whole business
(18:19):
completely.
We are in the transformationbusiness. My company's not an agency
that just does an ad or awebsite. We transform. And that's
why I think, for businesses,if you want super fans, you have
to be able to talk to yourprospects and let them Know, this
is who we are, and if that'sattractive, great. But if not, there's
(18:42):
probably not a good fit. Sowe're very picky with who we take
on. We'll say, if you're notlooking to transform your company
and brand by differentiation,we're probably not a good fit. And
it may sound funny, but I'vehad companies go, we don't need differentiation.
Okay? We're not a good fit. Sothat's what we have to do. As small
(19:02):
businesses and large realizewe're not for everybody, whether
it's employees or customers.One thing I really like with you,
Frederick, is that you look atthe holistic picture of experience.
It's not just customerexperience. It's not just employee
experience. It's oneexperience, and that experience is
(19:25):
translated and transferred tothe customer. This is who we are.
This is how we work. That'simportant because your employees
feel it. Conversely, if youremployees feel like, oh, my gosh,
what I'm doing is great, yourcustomers definitely feel that, and
that's why they'll become superfans.
Yeah, because I look at it asthe energy comes across. You know,
(19:47):
when you're talking and you'rejust doing a job because it's just
a job, because that's yourmindset. It's just a job that comes
across. You can't fake it.It's very different. You know, it's
like playing in a rock band. Igrew up with some guys that had a
big band in the Detroit area.Bittersweet Alley. That was the name
of the band. But the bottomline is you can't fake it. You gotta
(20:08):
do it. That goes across toprospective customers, to distributors,
to suppliers, everything else.So you get a situation where you've
got two people asking thatsupplier for the same product at
the same time that suppliersare gonna go, barry's been super
cool, takes care of me. I geta birthday card lunch every now and
(20:31):
then. I'm gonna take care ofhim first and get to the other guy
second. That's the real world.When I was selling manufacturing
software, I differentiatedmyself because other people got stuck
into talking about thetechnology. I started talking about
the business and what theobjectives were and the growth of
(20:52):
the business. And I wouldbasically say, look, there's about
three or four other productsin this space that can all do the
job. So that's not theconversation. The conversation is,
where do you see your businessgoing in two, three, four years?
Then I started working onstrategy. What were the issues and
the challenges they wereworking on? And how I can help them
(21:14):
achieve those goals. Becausethis is just a tool. Just like the
copper is just copper. But youtransformed their whole look on things.
And that's what I would dowith these guys, and I'd always get
the sale.
But you were transformingtheir business, not just selling
them some software.
Correct.
(21:35):
Looked at the long game, whatdo we needed to do? They were my
referral sources.
I always talk to my clientsfirst off the bat and I want to know
if it's three years fromtoday, what does success look like
for them? I need to understandthat sometimes they have nothing
more than a few numbers. Butmost of the time they have something
(21:56):
deeper than just numbers. Ineed to hear that and then maybe
I can help them. If I don'tknow that I'm just a vendor, I don't
want to be a vendor.
No, because it changes thedynamics when you're having that
type of conversation,sometimes it opens up their eyes
to saying, well, you know,really, I never thought of that.
(22:18):
I never looked at it that way.And when you start having that conversation
with them is transformativebecause all of a sudden a light bulb
goes off and goes, wow, youknow, that's an interesting concept.
And all of a sudden theirbrains are going in that direction.
And now you've become atrusted advisor. You've changed yourself
(22:40):
from everybody else. You'renow looking at a partner, really
becoming a partner with themon their transformation of where
they want to go. I rememberone of the tool and die shops, it
was a mold shop. They startedout as 40 people and over a five
year period, they tripled.Bought both buildings on both sides,
and they were my number onereferral source. It was all because
(23:04):
we looked at where they wantedto go, what the objective was and
how I could help them getthere. This is just a tool that helps
part of the process. Do youhave another story you can share
of somebody else you've worked with?
One thing I can share is withour work with Harley Davidson. The
(23:30):
thing I learned with them isthe experience is your brand, meaning
the customer when they go in,whether it's a dealership, a store,
or on the phone, experiencethat the customer receives in their
mind is your brand. Meaning ifI'm a car manufacturer and somebody
(23:55):
goes into a car dealership andlooks at a car that my company designed
and manufactured, but thatperson gets a terrible, terrible
experience. That customerwalks out and they say, I'll never
buy that brand because theyconnected that dealer, that person
(24:17):
with your products. So onegreat story is Harley Davidson asked
Us to work with their dealersto make sure we're embracing everybody
that came in the door. Harley,phenomenal success story has, you
know, older and a lot of timesit's male. So they'll have an older
(24:39):
man come in to look atmotorcycles. The group. Okay, well,
dealers were very used tolooking at men 50 years old and older.
But what happens when the 22year old woman or a minority? We
had to help the dealersunderstand, embrace everybody and
not assume the 22 year oldfemale is waiting for her father
(25:02):
to show up. Let's assume sheis a potential customer. We have
to realize our experience isour brand. So in their case, it turned
out very well. They openedtheir hearts, minds and doors at
their dealerships to people ofall ages, backgrounds, completely
(25:23):
diverse individuals, and ithelped their market share dramatically.
No, sure does. I mean, that'sthe only brand that's great that
you bring up Harley Davidson,because that's the only brand I know
that people tattoo themselveswith the Harley Davidson logo right
on them. I mean, that's right.Is, you know, profound.
It's profound. You look atwhat else will somebody tattoo their
(25:45):
shoulder, arm or legs andmaybe the navy or the marines. But
I'm telling you, that's howpowerful Harley is. Harley understands
what makes them different.Their differentiation is not the
standard stuff you hearcheapest, fastest, most innovative,
lowest cost per blah, blah,blah. They understand that. They
(26:06):
offer a brotherhood andsisterhood of fellow riders who will
embrace you when you join upand become an owner of one of their
motorcycles. They're not outthere claiming perfection. And that's
so important. Differentiationshould not be confused with perfection
or superiority. And HarleyDavidson is such a brilliant company
(26:30):
because they understand that.They never come out and say, hey,
we're the very best in everycategory. But boy, nobody touches
them when it comes to theirHarley owner group and their experience.
Well said. Because you justmade me remember that when I had
a Corvette back in the 70s,the thing was that you would see
(26:52):
another Corvette, you wouldjust wave, you know, you just the
way. And that was just a codeof ethics back then. Unfortunately,
it's disappeared. I reallymissed that because that was like
we recognized and it was kindof like little community. And that's.
Harley's gone way beyond that.That was just a little something
that was. Was cool because youfelt you were part of something.
(27:16):
Yeah, it's part of your identity.
And that goes back to theculture of the company too. That's
where you make people part ofsomething. It's a whole different
mindset and A whole differentattitude in that environment, because
now you're on a mission. It'slike when I mentioned earlier, when
I was in the tech world in theearly 80s, we were on a mission.
(27:38):
We were taking new technologyto engineering. From going from drafting
boards to being able to do 3Ddesign on a computer, that was a
whole new world. But we wereon a mission that transformed the
engineering. That was our goalback then in the very early beginning.
So it's important to haveeverybody involved in what that mission
(27:59):
is and how that transforms thecompany and everybody associated
with it.
Well said.
Thank you. So let's talk alittle bit about the book.
The book is called the Powerof Differentiation. The subtitle
(28:21):
tells it all. It's win, as inW I n win hearts, minds and market
share. It's winning the heartsand minds of your employees, supporters,
suppliers of your customers.And guess what happens? You can build
your market share. Ioriginally wrote it primarily focused
(28:45):
on branding to increase marketshare. During COVID I saw a statistic
that's 50 million Americansquit their jobs. During COVID 50
million walked off their jobeither to not go back into the workforce
or to go somewhere else. As Iwas writing this book on how to differentiate
your product to your customer,I thought we need to differentiate
(29:09):
our product and our brand toour employees. Because if they don't
think it's unique, if theydon't think it's special, they're
going to walk off the job. 50million people just did. I guarantee
most of them would have said,I don't think I'm doing anything
that special. I can do thatdown the street for 25 cents more
an hour. That's what inspiredthe book. The book is filled with
(29:32):
stories of leaders, small andlarge businesses who rallied their
people, who celebrated theirdifferentiation, and in some cases,
they made history with theirbrands. Very inspiring. We cover
many of those stories, as wellas how to look at commodities and
(29:53):
how to fight thecommoditization that's out there
today. How to realizeperfection isn't worth it. Don't
be perfect. Embrace beingimperfect. How to use technology.
How to use video to promotewhat you do, and how to view words,
(30:15):
because words create worlds.So instead of being quality, selection,
service and value, throw thatout. How about coming up with a word
that really means something? Imentioned earlier, jamming. That's
one of our core values.Jamming that. Nobody has jamming
as a core value out there butmy company. I have a client that
(30:37):
came up with a great one.Rigor. That's a Lot better than saying
quality. Sure. My point is thebook shares all of that. It's inspirational.
It's a wonderful positivefocus on people who have made a difference
for many people. And my goalis to influence a million people
(31:00):
with that message.
Well, we're on the samemission, just different verbiage
a little bit. My goal is tohelp people transform their whole
ecosystem into an army ofbusiness super fans promoting that
business and it'll skyrocketand it won't cost them a ton of money.
One of my sayings is thelittle things is really the big thing
(31:27):
and a lot of people get caughtup in focusing on the big thing and
they forget about doing thelittle thing.
Exactly.
And sadly, that doesn't leadto where it should lead.
You're right.
So great conversation here.Barry, as we wrap up towards the
end here. How can people find you?
(31:48):
I'm on LinkedIn. Please reachout. I have people reaching out from
all over the world. So BarryLabov L A b as in boy ov as in Victor
la b o v also my company'swebsite, labov.com or mine. Barry
labov.com feel free to go toAmazon and buy my book the Power
(32:09):
of Differentiation and leavean honest review. I love the reviews.
I believe it's a book thatpeople really can utilize no matter
if they have a small businessor large one.
Differentiating is everything.We'll make sure that's all in the
show notes for our listenersso they can get all the links and
everything else as well. Doyou have anything for our listeners
by chance?
What I do want to say is don'tfeel frustrated. If you want more
(32:35):
excitement at your company oryou want more buy in, understand
it's very common. Thecustomers I work with are searching
to find more inspiration fortheir people and for themselves.
Take a look at what you arealready doing and look at it through
a different lens. There has tobe one thing, maybe two or three
(32:59):
you are doing as a companythat are really unique. Hold on to
them, celebrate them.
Barry, it's been a pleasurehaving you on the Business Superfans
podcast show. Greatconversation, great insight for our
listeners and we definitelylook forward to having you on the
show again down the road.
Thank you Frederick. It hasbeen an honor.
(33:24):
Hey, superfan superstarFreddie D. Here. Before we wrap,
here's your three a playbookpower move to attract ideal clients,
turn them into advocates andaccelerate your business success.
The top insight of today'sepisode is if your own team doesn't
believe your brand is special,no customer ever will. Differentiation
(33:45):
must start from the insideout. So here's your business growth
action step before your nextcampaign. Rally your internal team
around one bold, emotionalbrand differentiator and celebrate
it like you would a productlaunch. If today's conversation sparked
(34:05):
an idea for you or you know ofa fellow business leader who would
benefit, share it with themand grab the full breakdown in the
show notes. Let's acceleratetogether and start creating business
superfans who champion your brand.
Hey Superfan superstar FreddieD. Here in this episode 96 we're
joined by Barry Labov, a twotime Ernest and Young Entrepreneur
of the Year, celebrated authorand the founder of Labov Marketing
Communications and Training.Barry is a powerhouse brand strategist
who helps companies uncoverand amplify what makes them truly
(02:23):
unique, empowering both theirteams and their customers. His Amazon
best selling book the Power ofWin Hearts, Minds and Market Share
captures his compellingapproach to brand and leadership.
Barry is also the co host ofDifference Talks, a podcast where
(02:43):
he and the Labov team divedeep into conversations with top
selling authors, CEOs andperformers from the worlds of sports
and music. With clients likeHarley Davidson, Copperworks and
audie, and nearly 100 podcastappearances under his belt, Barry
brings a wealth of energy,experience and insights into every
(03:05):
conversation.
Welcome Barry to the BusinessSuperfans podcast.
Frederick, thank you verymuch. I'm excited. You and I share
a lot of things in common. Ithink we're going to have a lot of
fun.
We had a great pre recordingconversation, so I'm excited about
it. Let's jump right into itBarry, and what's the best backstory?
I know that you played alittle bit of a musician. And how
(03:27):
do you go from musician tocreating the agency that you have
today?
It was all an accident. Ididn't mean to do it for Edric, but
what happened was I as a youngkid, teenager, started to write songs
playing a band with mybrother. Then some really old guys
that were like 18, 19 or 20joined in. I didn't realize this
(03:48):
at the moment, but I wasrunning a small business, I was doing
a lot of creative things and Ihad to inspire everybody in the band
to show up on time, performtheir best, entertain the audience,
get raving fans that wanted usto come back. As I did all of that,
I started to realize that whatI love most is creativity. Not so
(04:11):
much just music, butcreativity. That launched my company.
Today, 40 plus years later, Ihave a company. We're doing work
nationally andinternationally. I still run the
company like it's a rock band.I look for the talent in people.
I look to inspire them toperform. I try to get my clients
(04:33):
to realize how much we'rebringing to the table. So it's been
a natural extension. Althoughkind of a bizarre journey.
It's an interesting story.What are some of the songs that you
had wrote and put out?
I had songs published by BarryManilone, Natalie Cole and Billy
Joel. I had a song on MTV andVH1 called on a Night like this.
(04:59):
All in all, if you add it allup, my song sold well under 1 million
copies. So I didn't make anymoney on it. To this day, I get royalty
checks every few months forfive bucks, eight bucks, and maybe
that buys you a cup of coffee.
So tell us a little bit moreabout Labov Agency and what is it
that you guys do?
(05:20):
We focus on one thing and onething only, and that's differentiation.
We identify the uniquenessthat a brand has, whether it's a
small company, large company,nonprofit, for profit. We discover
it and help the client, nameit and promote it. And most important,
(05:40):
and Freddie D. Loves this, Iguarantee it. We celebrate it first
with the most importantaudience, the employees, the people
behind it. Suppliers could bedealers, whatever. They have to feel
that they're doing somethingexciting, significant and meaningful.
And once that happens, theyare your army and they're going out
(06:01):
in the world and they want togo wage battle for you. That's what
I do.
So let's go back into rightthere where we talked about team,
because the team is everythingand it all begins with the culture
of the company.
Right?
So what is it that you do andshare for our listeners so that they
can learn from this is theimportance of really bringing on
(06:23):
the right people and makingsure that the team collaborates as
a team and acts as a teamversus differentiating that one,
this department, and I'm thatdepartment, and it becomes a non
collaborative situation.
I think what's most importantis choose the words that describe
(06:44):
what you're all about. So ifyou have a mission statement, a vision
statement, whatever, if it'sthe same generic stuff that everybody
says we're here for, value,integrity, service selection, all
that kind of stuff, nobodycares. So determine those few words
that are unique to you. So oneof the few words for my company is
(07:07):
jam. Like a jam session. Wetalk to people right off the bat.
When we interview them, we go,look, we are so collaborative, it's
almost to a fault. I mean,we're crazy collaborative. We work
together all the time. Webounce things off each other every
day. And a lot of times peoplewill go, oh, that's great. And I'll
(07:28):
go, let me give you anexample. We seldom say, hey, you
go talk to the client and youown that client and you're the only
person that represents us tothe client. We don't do that once
in a while. You may talk tothe client one on one, but we have.
Could be a writer, could be avideo person, could be a social media
person, could Be somebody elsewith you talking to the client and
(07:52):
bouncing ideas. And we do itall the time. Now, this may sound
interesting to the audiencebecause it sounds like, well, everybody
wants that. No, they don't.I've had people go, now, wait a minute.
I want to be the face ofLabov. I want to be the face. And
I go, I'm so glad you broughtthat up. It won't work because we
have people that share in therelationships. That's the way we
(08:14):
do it with clients. We haveclients who know virtually everybody
in the company. We are not thecompany where one person. We have
had people that go, well, I'mnot sure I can do that. We go, good.
So I think you got to standfor something. For us, it's not just,
hey, let's have a nice time.Our core values include jamming.
(08:37):
You come on board, you got tobe ready to collaborate, listen to
other people's ideas, and thatmeans you have an idea. So somebody
may have an idea to improveyour idea. We look at that as great.
Answering your question ingeneral, I would be that way. It's
really important that we letpeople know that we are not a one
(08:57):
size fits all. We have to beable to present what our company
is about and what is the endresult for the customer. Are we here
just to make money off thosepeople? If so, you got to know that
when you're coming in. We tellour employees when they're coming
on board that we are thepeople behind great brands and great
(09:19):
people. It's never about us.It's not an ego thing for us. We're
not the superstars. We're theones protecting and helping and guiding.
That's what I think you haveto do. You got to realize that if
you can describe your cultureand it's not for everybody, you have
a better chance of getting theright person.
Oh, absolutely. Agree 100%.Because when I got back into the
(09:43):
computer industry in the1980s, we had a team of applications
guys, salespeople, managementand marketing department. We got
all involved in dealing withour customers. When our prospective
customers would come in, wewould all meet with them so everybody
understood work. You know, onFridays, we would go out for a happy
(10:05):
hour as a team and just hangout and have fun. And I'm still friends
45 years later with some ofthose people who've gone in different
directions, but we're stillfriends. And we still talk about
some of those great times wehad in the company and how we scaled
our office because we werepart of a Large organization, but
(10:26):
totally agreed and we hadcamaraderie. Right.
And I think what's veryimportant, you mentioned this a little
bit earlier, but I want tobounce off this too is we cannot
allow silos in our companies.People know when I'm bored, we don't
recognize silos. Now this ismy culture. I'm not saying it's everybody's,
(10:48):
but you can talk to anybodyyou want. If you have a question,
an idea, a concern, it doesn'tmatter because it's not one department
versus another versus another.At our company, we have a very, very
impressive bonus program.Everybody, every department, everyone,
(11:08):
regardless of their age orstatus, shares equally because our
administrative operationsperson is very valuable. It's not
the salesperson makes all theextra money. When we do well, we
all share in it. I think it'scritical. And today more than ever,
the idea of silos and usversus them just not work. It's not
(11:30):
sustainable.
Not in today's world. No.You've got to have a collaborative
scenario. I like what you saidabout sharing everything within the
organization because I've runsome companies and that was really
the differentiator. Everybodynow has ownership into the success
of the company. And thenyou've got everybody in the racing
(11:53):
rowboat so that even thougheverybody's got a single or in the
eight man rowboat, they're allrowing in synchronization and going
in that direction. Becausethere is a vision, there is a direction,
there is a belief. And if youget the win, everybody shares in
the win. Now everybody's muchmore glued together and has got everybody's
(12:13):
back. And that's a realdifferentiating of companies that
really scale rapidly. And it'sa very cost effective approach because
you're not going through andkeep hiring and rehiring and people
leaving and retraining andlosing all that money. So it's a
different mindset than a lotof companies, but it's a very profitable
(12:35):
mindset.
The thing I'll also share, andthis is how I convince some CEOs
who go, look, you don't needto do this big celebration thing
with our people. I mean, comeon, they're getting paid money, let's
just get going. And I go, no,no, no, you got to understand, we
have to celebrate theirperformance and what they do to make
(12:55):
this work. Because you wanthigh quality in your factory or company,
whatever the situation, youwant high retention. If a person
feels that what they're doingis not that special, it's no big
deal. Number one, why wouldthey Do a good job. And number two,
why do they even want to stay?So it's really smart to celebrate
(13:18):
now. It's got to be authentic.You can't say to everybody, hey,
it's a participation award.You're all here. Everybody's great.
We have to be able to talk tohuman beings and intelligently say,
here's what we're all about.Here's why each of you are doing
what you're doing. And by theway, so and so in operations did
this yesterday, and that wasso great. That helped us. And all
(13:40):
of a sudden, he or she'sgoing, wow, I'm actually part of
what's going on here. I'm notsome person way in the back. I'm
right there, front and center.So it's smart to do, and it is profitable.
Yeah.
One of my quotes in my book ispeople will crawl through broken
glass for appreciation and recognition.
(14:00):
Right?
And, you know, when I used torun global sales for a software company,
years ago, when we hit acertain threshold, I invited everybody
into the conference. Thesoftware developers, everybody in
there. And it was an impromptumeeting. They had no idea what was
going on. Even the owner hadno idea. And what I did was I had
food set up and some bottlesof champagne and said, guess what?
(14:21):
We just hit this mark in salesfor the quarter. And it's because
of you guys, because at theend of the day, it's them that made
it happen. As well asmarketing through resellers. They
were independent distributors,and I would recognize them as well.
But that's so important. Let'spivot a little bit and share story
(14:41):
of how you guys worked withone of your customers and transformed
them into superfan that's nowpromoting you to other businesses.
I'll give an example. There'sa company that is a copper producer.
They were looked at as acommodity. And that's one of the
things I focus on in my book,which is to fight this commodity
(15:06):
monster, because it'll eat youalive. So they came to us. They had
a really boring name. Nobodywould even understand what they are
or who they were. We wentthrough our process. We went through
five steps. First thing we didwith them is we talked to their employees,
their leadership, theircustomers, their suppliers, their
community, and said, okay, whoare these people? What do they do?
(15:28):
And what should they never,ever change? Because that's an important
question. What should they notchange? Because a lot of times entrepreneurs
will change anything.Sometimes we're doing something really
great. Let's not change it.Maybe that's why people come to work
here. Maybe that's why peoplebuy from us. Maybe that's why they
are super fans. Let's notchange that. The next step we did
(15:49):
with this company was we wentinto their facility to look for differentiation
either in their product, theirprocesses, their procedures, whatever.
And we found a number of veryinteresting things they were doing
and providing that were rightin front of them, that they were
too close to. They didn't evensee. And we said, isn't this unique?
(16:09):
And they, well, yeah, I guess.So. What did you call this? What
do you name it? Well, we don'tcall it anything. Okay, well, we're
going to name it and we'regoing to help promote it. So then
we went to the next stage. Wedid a jam session with them. We came
up with ideas. We put togethera plan. And one of the things we
did was we said, you need areal name for your company. And the
(16:32):
CEO said, I love it. We namedthem Copperworks. Their slogan is
where copper works? And wecame up with campaigns and we're
ready to launch it. But thenwe launched it to the most important
people in the world, theiremployees. Now, Frederick, this was
during COVID So this was avirtual launch. Everybody in the
(16:55):
company got a box sent totheir house the day before with a
note that says, do not opentill tomorrow. They opened the box
and found all these reallywonderful things, Even a craft beer
with Copperworks on there.Their new logo, new name. We celebrated
this with all their employees,and there were several people from
(17:15):
all over the world that wereon there as well. Once we did that,
we also identified one oftheir differentiators. Their differentiator
was they had a highlysustainable copper product they were
making. They were charging lowmoney for this low dollar. They made
almost no profit on it. And wesaid, hold on, this is your best
(17:38):
product because it'ssustainable. They turned everything
around. We named that product.Today, they are the most profitable
company in their segment.Their sales are sky high, and they
are the premium product.That's an example. But that's all
(17:59):
from them discovering with us,we help them, but them discovering
what made them unique andreally, really emphasizing it.
So you've transformed theminto a super fan of what you guys
do. But more importantly,you've transformed that whole business
(18:19):
completely.
We are in the transformationbusiness. My company's not an agency
that just does an ad or awebsite. We transform. And that's
why I think, for businesses,if you want super fans, you have
to be able to talk to yourprospects and let them Know, this
is who we are, and if that'sattractive, great. But if not, there's
(18:42):
probably not a good fit. Sowe're very picky with who we take
on. We'll say, if you're notlooking to transform your company
and brand by differentiation,we're probably not a good fit. And
it may sound funny, but I'vehad companies go, we don't need differentiation.
Okay? We're not a good fit. Sothat's what we have to do. As small
(19:02):
businesses and large realizewe're not for everybody, whether
it's employees or customers.One thing I really like with you,
Frederick, is that you look atthe holistic picture of experience.
It's not just customerexperience. It's not just employee
experience. It's oneexperience, and that experience is
(19:25):
translated and transferred tothe customer. This is who we are.
This is how we work. That'simportant because your employees
feel it. Conversely, if youremployees feel like, oh, my gosh,
what I'm doing is great, yourcustomers definitely feel that, and
that's why they'll become superfans.
Yeah, because I look at it asthe energy comes across. You know,
(19:47):
when you're talking and you'rejust doing a job because it's just
a job, because that's yourmindset. It's just a job that comes
across. You can't fake it.It's very different. You know, it's
like playing in a rock band. Igrew up with some guys that had a
big band in the Detroit area.Bittersweet Alley. That was the name
of the band. But the bottomline is you can't fake it. You gotta
(20:08):
do it. That goes across toprospective customers, to distributors,
to suppliers, everything else.So you get a situation where you've
got two people asking thatsupplier for the same product at
the same time that suppliersare gonna go, barry's been super
cool, takes care of me. I geta birthday card lunch every now and
(20:31):
then. I'm gonna take care ofhim first and get to the other guy
second. That's the real world.When I was selling manufacturing
software, I differentiatedmyself because other people got stuck
into talking about thetechnology. I started talking about
the business and what theobjectives were and the growth of
(20:52):
the business. And I wouldbasically say, look, there's about
three or four other productsin this space that can all do the
job. So that's not theconversation. The conversation is,
where do you see your businessgoing in two, three, four years?
Then I started working onstrategy. What were the issues and
the challenges they wereworking on? And how I can help them
(21:14):
achieve those goals. Becausethis is just a tool. Just like the
copper is just copper. But youtransformed their whole look on things.
And that's what I would dowith these guys, and I'd always get
the sale.
But you were transformingtheir business, not just selling
them some software.
Correct.
(21:35):
Looked at the long game, whatdo we needed to do? They were my
referral sources.
I always talk to my clientsfirst off the bat and I want to know
if it's three years fromtoday, what does success look like
for them? I need to understandthat sometimes they have nothing
more than a few numbers. Butmost of the time they have something
(21:56):
deeper than just numbers. Ineed to hear that and then maybe
I can help them. If I don'tknow that I'm just a vendor, I don't
want to be a vendor.
No, because it changes thedynamics when you're having that
type of conversation,sometimes it opens up their eyes
to saying, well, you know,really, I never thought of that.
(22:18):
I never looked at it that way.And when you start having that conversation
with them is transformativebecause all of a sudden a light bulb
goes off and goes, wow, youknow, that's an interesting concept.
And all of a sudden theirbrains are going in that direction.
And now you've become atrusted advisor. You've changed yourself
(22:40):
from everybody else. You'renow looking at a partner, really
becoming a partner with themon their transformation of where
they want to go. I rememberone of the tool and die shops, it
was a mold shop. They startedout as 40 people and over a five
year period, they tripled.Bought both buildings on both sides,
and they were my number onereferral source. It was all because
(23:04):
we looked at where they wantedto go, what the objective was and
how I could help them getthere. This is just a tool that helps
part of the process. Do youhave another story you can share
of somebody else you've worked with?
One thing I can share is withour work with Harley Davidson. The
(23:30):
thing I learned with them isthe experience is your brand, meaning
the customer when they go in,whether it's a dealership, a store,
or on the phone, experiencethat the customer receives in their
mind is your brand. Meaning ifI'm a car manufacturer and somebody
(23:55):
goes into a car dealership andlooks at a car that my company designed
and manufactured, but thatperson gets a terrible, terrible
experience. That customerwalks out and they say, I'll never
buy that brand because theyconnected that dealer, that person
(24:17):
with your products. So onegreat story is Harley Davidson asked
Us to work with their dealersto make sure we're embracing everybody
that came in the door. Harley,phenomenal success story has, you
know, older and a lot of timesit's male. So they'll have an older
(24:39):
man come in to look atmotorcycles. The group. Okay, well,
dealers were very used tolooking at men 50 years old and older.
But what happens when the 22year old woman or a minority? We
had to help the dealersunderstand, embrace everybody and
not assume the 22 year oldfemale is waiting for her father
(25:02):
to show up. Let's assume sheis a potential customer. We have
to realize our experience isour brand. So in their case, it turned
out very well. They openedtheir hearts, minds and doors at
their dealerships to people ofall ages, backgrounds, completely
(25:23):
diverse individuals, and ithelped their market share dramatically.
No, sure does. I mean, that'sthe only brand that's great that
you bring up Harley Davidson,because that's the only brand I know
that people tattoo themselveswith the Harley Davidson logo right
on them. I mean, that's right.Is, you know, profound.
It's profound. You look atwhat else will somebody tattoo their
(25:45):
shoulder, arm or legs andmaybe the navy or the marines. But
I'm telling you, that's howpowerful Harley is. Harley understands
what makes them different.Their differentiation is not the
standard stuff you hearcheapest, fastest, most innovative,
lowest cost per blah, blah,blah. They understand that. They
(26:06):
offer a brotherhood andsisterhood of fellow riders who will
embrace you when you join upand become an owner of one of their
motorcycles. They're not outthere claiming perfection. And that's
so important. Differentiationshould not be confused with perfection
or superiority. And HarleyDavidson is such a brilliant company
(26:30):
because they understand that.They never come out and say, hey,
we're the very best in everycategory. But boy, nobody touches
them when it comes to theirHarley owner group and their experience.
Well said. Because you justmade me remember that when I had
a Corvette back in the 70s,the thing was that you would see
(26:52):
another Corvette, you wouldjust wave, you know, you just the
way. And that was just a codeof ethics back then. Unfortunately,
it's disappeared. I reallymissed that because that was like
we recognized and it was kindof like little community. And that's.
Harley's gone way beyond that.That was just a little something
that was. Was cool because youfelt you were part of something.
(27:16):
Yeah, it's part of your identity.
And that goes back to theculture of the company too. That's
where you make people part ofsomething. It's a whole different
mindset and A whole differentattitude in that environment, because
now you're on a mission. It'slike when I mentioned earlier, when
I was in the tech world in theearly 80s, we were on a mission.
(27:38):
We were taking new technologyto engineering. From going from drafting
boards to being able to do 3Ddesign on a computer, that was a
whole new world. But we wereon a mission that transformed the
engineering. That was our goalback then in the very early beginning.
So it's important to haveeverybody involved in what that mission
(27:59):
is and how that transforms thecompany and everybody associated
with it.
Well said.
Thank you. So let's talk alittle bit about the book.
The book is called the Powerof Differentiation. The subtitle
(28:21):
tells it all. It's win, as inW I n win hearts, minds and market
share. It's winning the heartsand minds of your employees, supporters,
suppliers of your customers.And guess what happens? You can build
your market share. Ioriginally wrote it primarily focused
(28:45):
on branding to increase marketshare. During COVID I saw a statistic
that's 50 million Americansquit their jobs. During COVID 50
million walked off their jobeither to not go back into the workforce
or to go somewhere else. As Iwas writing this book on how to differentiate
your product to your customer,I thought we need to differentiate
(29:09):
our product and our brand toour employees. Because if they don't
think it's unique, if theydon't think it's special, they're
going to walk off the job. 50million people just did. I guarantee
most of them would have said,I don't think I'm doing anything
that special. I can do thatdown the street for 25 cents more
an hour. That's what inspiredthe book. The book is filled with
(29:32):
stories of leaders, small andlarge businesses who rallied their
people, who celebrated theirdifferentiation, and in some cases,
they made history with theirbrands. Very inspiring. We cover
many of those stories, as wellas how to look at commodities and
(29:53):
how to fight thecommoditization that's out there
today. How to realizeperfection isn't worth it. Don't
be perfect. Embrace beingimperfect. How to use technology.
How to use video to promotewhat you do, and how to view words,
(30:15):
because words create worlds.So instead of being quality, selection,
service and value, throw thatout. How about coming up with a word
that really means something? Imentioned earlier, jamming. That's
one of our core values.Jamming that. Nobody has jamming
as a core value out there butmy company. I have a client that
(30:37):
came up with a great one.Rigor. That's a Lot better than saying
quality. Sure. My point is thebook shares all of that. It's inspirational.
It's a wonderful positivefocus on people who have made a difference
for many people. And my goalis to influence a million people
(31:00):
with that message.
Well, we're on the samemission, just different verbiage
a little bit. My goal is tohelp people transform their whole
ecosystem into an army ofbusiness super fans promoting that
business and it'll skyrocketand it won't cost them a ton of money.
One of my sayings is thelittle things is really the big thing
(31:27):
and a lot of people get caughtup in focusing on the big thing and
they forget about doing thelittle thing.
Exactly.
And sadly, that doesn't leadto where it should lead.
You're right.
So great conversation here.Barry, as we wrap up towards the
end here. How can people find you?
(31:48):
I'm on LinkedIn. Please reachout. I have people reaching out from
all over the world. So BarryLabov L A b as in boy ov as in Victor
la b o v also my company'swebsite, labov.com or mine. Barry
labov.com feel free to go toAmazon and buy my book the Power
(32:09):
of Differentiation and leavean honest review. I love the reviews.
I believe it's a book thatpeople really can utilize no matter
if they have a small businessor large one.
Differentiating is everything.We'll make sure that's all in the
show notes for our listenersso they can get all the links and
everything else as well. Doyou have anything for our listeners
by chance?
What I do want to say is don'tfeel frustrated. If you want more
(32:35):
excitement at your company oryou want more buy in, understand
it's very common. Thecustomers I work with are searching
to find more inspiration fortheir people and for themselves.
Take a look at what you arealready doing and look at it through
a different lens. There has tobe one thing, maybe two or three
(32:59):
you are doing as a companythat are really unique. Hold on to
them, celebrate them.
Barry, it's been a pleasurehaving you on the Business Superfans
podcast show. Greatconversation, great insight for our
listeners and we definitelylook forward to having you on the
show again down the road.
Thank you Frederick. It hasbeen an honor.
(33:24):
Hey, superfan superstarFreddie D. Here. Before we wrap,
here's your three a playbookpower move to attract ideal clients,
turn them into advocates andaccelerate your business success.
The top insight of today'sepisode is if your own team doesn't
believe your brand is special,no customer ever will. Differentiation
(33:45):
must start from the insideout. So here's your business growth
action step before your nextcampaign. Rally your internal team
around one bold, emotionalbrand differentiator and celebrate
it like you would a productlaunch. If today's conversation sparked
(34:05):
an idea for you or you know ofa fellow business leader who would
benefit, share it with themand grab the full breakdown in the
show notes. Let's acceleratetogether and start creating business
superfans who champion your brand.
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