Episode Transcript
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Hick (00:17):
Welcome to Episode 33 of
the Busted Buttons video game
podcast. And we got a realinteresting one today because
this is a game we're talking TheLast of Us Part Two all episode
long with this is a game thatreally is kind of like it has
mixed feelings from everybodylike there's parts that like
really make me upset, butthere's parts I love about it.
(00:38):
Like you know, to me I thinkit's a very good game not a
great game but we're gonna getinto all that I can tell you
what though man is an emotionalgame because I was watching
their thing I was like damn manthis game This game is rough so
like next time we talk aboutgame we're gonna do like
Nintendo or something happy orsomething because I can't take
all this emotional stress fromthe game But anyways, we're
(01:00):
gonna be talking story chaptersgameplay Legacy The future of
the franchise and there will bespoilers we will be talking
about everything in The Last ofUs part two, including the
ending so if you have not playedthis game and beat it yet we
highly suggest that you comeback to this podcast at a later
time because we are going totalk about everything but
(01:22):
anyways read I'm gonna kick itto you right here. Very simple
like the last podcast episodewhich we talked The Last of Us
like I said story chaptersgameplay legacy future read go
and take it off with the story.
What's your opinion?
Red (01:35):
Well, the original last of
a set such a high bar for story.
It's, we as we mentioned lastepisode, one of the best stories
in video gaming history in ouropinion, and in a lot of a lot
of people's opinion. So the barwas really high and the last was
part two just didn't quite clearit for me. It's a good story. It
is a good story. And I reallyliked the way they structured it
(01:55):
and we'll kind of get into thatyou know here in a little bit
but like the way they told thestory was really good and
unique. But the story itselfjust it was a dark story. It was
not what's bad
Hick (02:07):
though, you know?
Red (02:08):
It's not why it's bad. It's
just for me it didn't have quite
the same feeling of the firstone. Yeah, it's just because
this one is all about revenge.
Yeah, early on in the game youmentioned some emotional game
like very early on in the gameJoel gets killed one of the main
characters from the originalgame he gets killed off and so
Ellie is trying to get revengefor half of it and then you know
on Abby side and like so we'llgo through the story beats you
(02:32):
know so but on Abby side she'strying to get revenge for when
Joel killed her dad the the thesurgeon in the first game. So
this is the first game was allabout hope. Like he was immune
and they were trying to get herto a group of people who could
do something about maybe createa cure this one is all about
revenge and I think that becauseof that reason it didn't
(02:54):
resonate with me quite as wellas the first one did it's just
like I don't have a problem witha darker tone I don't have a
problem with the darker or likea revenge story even there they
can be really good but just forme Everyone is just so angry and
this and it's a shitty worldthey're living in when you're
going through the zombieapocalypse all that I get it but
to me though just it really doesit did hold it back that like
(03:19):
you know the first one was verymuch about hope and even as
you're going through thishorrible world there was hope
and this one is just like nothese two people just want to
fucking kill each other Yeah.
And and so to me that you know,it was less depth to it for that
reason. And so that that wasjust my general take on the
store but what
Hick (03:38):
about you? It missed the
mark for me to be honest with
you like it's still like when Ibeat the game I look back I said
you know what, that was still agreat story. But for the last of
us franchise It was not theyinvade that fantastic of a story
to be honest with you and justFirst of all, they killed Joe
way too early in the game likeso. Like I mean Joe's a
(03:58):
character we went through theentire first game with like we
formed an emotional bond withhim and I just started kill them
off a little bit too quickly nowYeah, it's nice that we get
flashbacks later on the gamewith him like I'm glad they just
didn't cut off right thereanyway see him at all, but just
it got too far away from thefirst game like you said, the
(04:20):
first game was all about hopeand then this was just like a
teen drama like you know,revenge story and retribution.
Like it just missed the mark. Itjust missed and like I said,
that doesn't mean it wasn't agreat story in the video games.
I think it was still one of thebetter stories of the past year
but just here's the thing withNaughty Dog like I've said I
(04:40):
think I said this in the introlike I say the game is very
good. Yeah, The Last of Us theoriginal Part One was great.
Yes, game is very good, whichobviously is very good video
game, but I expect more fromNaughty Dog because of the
stories and the games they'vehad in the past like obviously
The Last of Us And then also theUncharted ourselves yet gracious
(05:03):
expecting greatness, becausethat's what night dog has given
us. And as I'm going throughthis game, I'm just like, I
don't know about that decision.
I don't know about that. Yeah, Iknow. And, like, you know, a lot
of them, you know, early sexualorientation, her being lesbian
and then also, um, Abby havingmuscles like, those are two
things that did not bother me oryou at all know, a lot of other
(05:24):
people. But this is what I'mtrying to say is that, like,
that part didn't bother us atall. But we still like the
story. Right? Like, you know,there's a lot of people out
there they're just dissing onthe story because they don't
like those two things, which,you know, I think is totally
idiotic. But I completely agreethis podcast This podcast is not
placed for that. But um, no,like did did not bother
Red (05:45):
its own podcast, right?
Yeah.
Hick (05:47):
But like, I just, I don't
know, everything didn't come
together the way I wanted it to.
And I don't know. Do you thinkit took place too long after the
original or did take place inthe right time period? What do
you think
Red (05:58):
I was fine with the right
timeframe if they were going to
make le kind of the playablecharacter, which she was for the
first maybe little over half thegame? Yeah, she needed to be
older than she was in the firstone. Like, yeah, so that she
could do all the crazy shit thatyou can do in this game and
Gameplay wise that we'll getwe'll get into gameplay in a
little more detail.
Hick (06:16):
Why can we have jokin for
this game,
Red (06:18):
and I think they just want
to do something different. And
plus, like they needed to. Ifthe whole story is gonna be on
revenge, they needed a reasonfor them to want revenge. And
Abby had a good reason that tiedexcellent with the first game,
you know, when her dad was theone who was supposed to be
operating on Ellie and Joelkilled him. So that's like that
was built in. That was great.
But Ellie needed an excuse to goon this revenge fueled campaign.
(06:40):
Yeah. And so killing Joel, Ithink we kind of and I made the
comparison to like the shockingdeaths and like Game of Thrones,
and kind of how we had someshocking deaths in the first The
Last of Us. I honestly thinkbecause of Game of Thrones, like
some of the, like, Joel's death,maybe didn't hit quite as
emotionally hard.
Hick (07:02):
It'd be hard.
Red (07:04):
Well, it's just it's one of
those where it did it did hit
hard because we did spend what20 hours or whatever with him in
the first game, and he's a greatcharacter very fully fleshed out
character. And I think he's justafter going through something
like Game of Thrones and eventhe first The Last of Us like
that shock values almost kind ofworn off. And and then or, or
maybe a little more desensitizedto it now. And then also, like
(07:26):
they
Hick (07:27):
mentioned returns, like
you just don't get as much
usually with the second one.
Like the first game was allshocking to us and everything
from this one. We just expecteda lot more and, you know, we
didn't get it, which isbasically the law of diminishing
return. Right? But then in thelike, they they killed off.
Red (07:43):
Ellie and what is her What
is her girlfriend saying? Dinah?
Deena Didi Dina's friend gotkilled off and then Abby's
friend and who for Dina'sfriend, or somebody? Yes, yes.
The one that knocked up D Yeah,that was Jesse. Thank you. I got
a few of the names a few of thenames forgotten here. Yeah. Over
the course of the game.
Hick (08:02):
You just be like last
week, man. Hey, but you know, he
died
Red (08:06):
months ago in my time
frame.
Hick (08:09):
taking forever to get back
to the game. Yeah. Which, you
know, I think says somethingabout the game because I
remember meeting you like weplayed the first one at
different times. Yeah, westarted in bam. We knocked it
out now. Yeah, it's only 20 ourgame but I mean, it was a fast
game for both of us. When thisgame like I pretty much went all
the way through like, you know,without I might went out to
(08:29):
another game here and there. Butfor the most part, I finished it
out. But you like you took like,maybe a month off or something
like that? Yeah, I think thatsays a lot about the game. Like
it didn't grab your attentionthe way the first one did. And
really, Dan, you're kind oftalking about this, but like,
you know, there's a greatconnection between Joe and
Ellie, right? You think thatconnection with this game? Like,
(08:51):
you know, in my opinion, like,obviously, this is read as
opinion. So you might betotally, that's completely fine,
but I just didn't feel thatconnection. Like I didn't feel
as strong about Ellie and Deenayou know, or or Ellie and Jessie
is that did Joe in LA right thenlike, you know, the hope the
problem with this game is me Idid not care for Abby. And like
(09:12):
I said, I know a lot of peoplegot like upset cuz she had big
muscles. I think that'sabsolutely ridiculous. why that
matters. Like, I don'tunderstand, but like that did
not bother me at all. But Hellno, I just did not like Abby at
all. Like, you know, first ofall, she's a bitch. And then she
kills Joe. So at that moment,you got to go, man, you just got
(09:32):
to go. But, you know, as westart playing as Abby, which I
absolutely hated, but um,because it was just, oh, we're
gonna we're gonna we're gonnabutt heads on that one. Okay,
that's fine. We'll get to it.
But um, I forgot to say nowabout Abby. Um, oh, but I was
kind of hoping that okay, aftershe kills Joe, like, you know,
Joe, I just hate Abby. But Ican't. I went in with an open
(09:53):
mind. When I started playing asAbby. I was like, You know what,
I want to get something thatMakes me care about her, like I,
like change my opinions on her.
And there's a point in the gamewhere that was starting to
happen where I was starting tofeel for Abby. And then the game
just got away from it. And thatwas kind of the whole pacing of
(10:13):
the game that I know that weboth complain about. So you kind
of will talk about the pacingand the issues you have with it.
Red (10:19):
Well, the game just seems
overly padded. And yeah, it's
not so much because the storylike the story is fine. It's
just there's so long chunks inbetween anything happening, like
and part of that is they madethe game a little more like
areas of it are a little bigger,a little more open. So it's more
stuff to explore. But there's sodid you like that part of it?
(10:42):
No.
Hick (10:44):
I did not. It was too much
for linear game,
Red (10:46):
right. And the main reason
that I didn't like those there's
It has nothing to do in thosesections. You have scavenge some
supplies and you'd find a fewenemies. And that is it. Like it
didn't give me a reason to carethat this was a bigger areas to
explore. And yeah, there's newdifferent ways to do combat, but
I feel like just you would spendhours between like something
(11:09):
actually happening in the store.
Like I remember you and wetalked about this very early on
in the game like yes, Joel getskilled off, right. The very,
like the first two hours of thegame. Yeah, whatever. Nothing
else happens for like, eighthours. Like the the rest of the
stretch is just you as Ellie,traveling to Seattle, to find
the group that did this. Soyeah, it just it dragged in part
(11:31):
of it is that Yeah, people likesaying, oh, there's more
content, there's more content.
But when it's empty, repetitivecontent, in my opinion, in my
opinion, it detracts. Like, Ithink that's why this the story
suffered for it. Because like Isaid, history is fine. Like it
didn't hit with me as well asthe first one. But it's, it's a
good story. Like you said, Youliked it. But when there's so
(11:54):
much in between stuff happening,you kind of lose track of the
story. Sometimes there weretimes. And yes, part of it, you
know, I took a little bit oftime away from it. But there
were times I'm like, I don'tremember what the hell I'm
actually supposed to be doing. Ifeel like I've just been walking
on this road, or climbing thisbuilding, or whatever you
Hick (12:10):
play for 10 straight
hours. I don't know if it's
ours. But it was a long time.
Red (12:13):
There were long chunks
between like stuff actually
happening in the story. So Ithought, I do think the game
suffered very much from being alittle overly padded. With those
sections. I mean, there's onlyand they did Naughty Dog, as
usual, did a great job puttinglike notes and things like that,
that really fleshed out theworld a little bit. And like,
you know, it told some smallerstories within the bigger story
(12:35):
that you're going through. Yeah,but you know, even that, that
reward is is diminishing returnsas well. And so so for me, the
pacing definitely affected myenjoyment of the story, because
I'm like, if nothing'shappening, story wise, why do I
care? You
Hick (12:48):
know, so, but you know, it
tried to be too much like,
decision. Are you open world? Orare you laying here because
you're sure as hell in one ofthose hub games, like got a
horse. So like to meet there wasjust like, you can't talk about
this, there was too muchcontent, like this game is very
simple. The first one, like itwas a very linear game with a
great story. And then like,okay, we're gonna do that same
(13:09):
thing. But we're gonna be someopen world. No, you can't do
that video games either be oneor the other. Because if you're
a linear game, and you try to beopen world, well, I won't get
upset because I think I played alinear game. And then all of a
sudden, I think explore morethan I want to, that's okay, in
my open world games. But I'mplaying a linear game to get
away from an open world game. SoI don't want that in my linear
(13:30):
game. So to me, like, they justtried too hard, I think with
this game, and they said, it'sthe most ambitious game that
we've ever done. But that'sobviously that's not always. We
saw that like, yeah, you had aformula that was very simple,
linear story and a little bitgameplay and it works. And then
this when you try to be linear,your pacing was way off, you try
(13:53):
to be a world, like there's nota lot to get in this huge, like
we opened up these areas in May,I'm not so linear, like there
just wasn't a lot to grasp, likeyou said, so. I mean, for me,
that's another like the storymissed the mark. And then I
think kind of related to allthis, I think exactly what you
said, This had something to dowith it. Because if you put too
much in between the cutscenes,because that like I just said, I
(14:16):
don't know if it was 10 hours ornot. But there were areas where
you didn't get a cutscene forquite a long time. I was like,
Okay, this is I expect cutscenesfrom the last of us this like if
you're telling a great story,it's got to have not like
cutscenes but it's got to havethat right pacing, it does have
cutscenes in this game, like youwould get a cutscene and then
(14:38):
you weren't doing thing eight to10 hours later, right? By that
time. I'm like What the hell waseven going on in the story and
you made a good point with thejoke. Like Yeah, you he gets
killed in the first two and ahalf hours. And then I believe
it was like right around, youknow, my gameplay. It was right
around the nine hour mark untilsomething else happened. Like,
hey, that's way too long.
Red (14:59):
It is And just yeah, I feel
like we're bashing the game the
whole time. And it's a goodgame. Like, I tweeted out when I
be very good, but just shy ofbeing great. The story had a
couple other things that reallyirked me, like, and then and
then I'm definitely a good thing
Hick (15:17):
real quickly, but I gave
an 8.5. So I think like I said,
a very good game. But I thinkthe real I mean, this game meant
a lot to us like it's anemotional game. And I think
that's why we feel so strongly.
Yes, we think it's a very goodgame. Yeah. But it was a
disappointment. And that's theway it's coming off. But go
ahead.
Red (15:33):
No, so I just think in we
spent a lot of the last episode
talking about the relationships,the relationships between Joel
and Ellie felt so real then youhad Henry and Sam in there and
everything, like they felt likegenuine relationships. I I
didn't care that much for Ellieand Dana's relationship. Yeah.
And I feel like they reallytried to pull just like some
(15:54):
random shock value, stuff likethat. Not just the people
getting killed. But like,revealing Dina's pregnant. Like,
I
Hick (16:02):
honestly don't think that
added anything to the story. I
mean, it's like great, and itgives you one more thing to
fight for anything detractedbecause she could have went
along with this arbiter, andthen that relationship might
develop outside of that theater.
Red (16:16):
It really seemed like an
excuse to sideline her and have
you go it alone as Ellie andthen later in the second half,
we played as Abby, so like, justlittle, not little thing. It's a
big thing, but like, that stuffreally missed the mark for me,
cuz I'm like, yo, she finds outthat Ellie is immune, and I feel
like that should have been abigger deal. But like as soon as
she finds out Ellie's immuneDean is like, oh, by the way,
(16:38):
I'm pregnant. Yeah, I'm justlike, that is just it just it's
like there's
Hick (16:42):
moments in the game like
where you said they try get
shock value and just like, Ithink I missed there on that
one. Exactly.
Red (16:48):
And you know, it was cool
that yeah, it was with the ex so
that added some and then heshows up and that adds a little
bit of tension to like therelationship but it to me they
didn't do enough with it. Likethey never really went anywhere
with it yet.
Hick (17:00):
Like they like that felt
forced. First last episode, we
were talking about the gamebeing natural some of these
relationships in the dialogueand what was happening to me
felt forced, right,
Red (17:10):
I'm completely with you.
And then so and then you know,Ellie, even finding this out
like her girlfriend's pregnantall this stuff. Like she's still
so dead set on this revenge.
Like she almost doesn't careabout dia except for Hey, help
me find where Abby is. So I cango get revenge like so it's
Yeah. And switching gears toAbby's story. I felt like her.
(17:34):
Yes, she wanted revenge. And shekilled Joel early on. Like, like
that was very early on she soshe got her revenge. Yeah. And
the whole her whole story wasshe was just trying to find her
friend, like her friend wentmissing. And so she was out
trying to find him. And ofcourse, that leads to you know,
meeting Ellie and all that stuffdown the road. But like, I
thought Abby's story was betterthan Ellie's and I never thought
(17:57):
I would have said that goinginto this game. It will at first
I didn't know they're going tobe two different stories like
that. Yeah. But like, you know,Abby was all about like, I want
revenge. Abby, Abby got herrevenge in the first two hours
of the game when she killedJoel. And then the rest of like
her story. She's just trying tofind her friend, who Ellie, you
know, does end up killing? Yeah.
Which spawns more want forrevenge? Of course. And yeah.
(18:18):
And so I actually thought Abbyhad the more relatable story. I
guess that made me like it alittle bit better. But what, you
know, we spent a lot of timetalking about Ellie started,
what did you think of? I knowyou said he didn't necessarily
like playing as Abby. But whatdo you think about at least her
story?
Hick (18:34):
Yeah, I didn't know. I
don't know if it's because I
didn't like her. But I don'tfeel the same way. I really
didn't care for a store thatmuch. And like I said, it might
have to do with me thinking thatshe's just a bitch. Right? But
like, I don't know, I can't sithere. Exactly, like point out to
why I don't like Abby all knowsthat. Like, I'm playing this
character. And I just don't likeher. Ryan. Um, you know, I don't
(18:55):
know if it's our dialogue. Idon't know appeals or attitude.
Like her face. Like she alwaysjust looked mad. She does that.
Like, you know, he could say thesame about Ellie. But damn Abby
smile every once in a while. SoI know that you care. But for
me, that's what really ruin thegame for me. Like, um, you know,
you could say this story. Butthe story was thrown in there.
Like the whole story of The Lastof Us has been Joe and Ellie.
(19:17):
Yeah, you know, you know, firstfinding the hope. But like, it's
been the story up until now. Andthen like, those been le
Red (19:23):
story. Yeah.
Hick (19:24):
Like, you know, in there
like it just a lot of times,
that doesn't work. And it didn'twork for me because I'm like,
why did that need to happen?
Like, okay, if she wants to be apart of this story. I'm okay
with that. But we don't need togo and do the exact same three
damn days that we did. That'swhere the game got stretched out
way too much. Because you sitthere and you end with a
cliffhanger where Abby ispointing a gun at Ellie and he
(19:46):
said, Oh, you want to play threemore days. And you just did that
shit with Ellie. So yeah, likethat to me right there. You
know, and maybe that's why Ididn't like me as much because
they made up play another threedays was her but that to me,
like I hate it, I hate it. Like,you know if we would have played
as Abby like, you know here inthere, that would have been okay
(20:07):
but to make us play almost thesame amount as La because LA is
a character that I like a lotand we have no these
relationship with from the fan.
Like I don't know if that gaveme disdain for Abby but it was
just too much of her like thewhole 5050 like it was just
like, okay, here's thischaracter, we're gonna throw
this character in, like, youknow at the beginning, and then
(20:29):
Oh, you're gonna play half ofthe game with them. Even though
you have this attachment tothese other two characters, and
oh, by the way, we'll kill offone very early in the fucking
game. For me, I had this. Imean, I do think I think the
gameplay was better during thatpart to be honest with you, oh,
I'm like, you know, going up inthe skyscrapers going across
(20:49):
that crane, which I was hopingthat you know, Abby would fall
off of, but like, you know, so Idid think the gameplay was
better her character um, I feellike she is like they both are
very well fighting. But this hasnothing to do with Abby's
muscles, but like she's moreathletic in the gap. It's not
that way. But I felt like shewas more athletic. And so the
gameplay was slightly different.
And I think it was more fun andjust you know, Ellie's gameplay
(21:13):
was mostly like on the groundlike if like confined whereas
Abby are going up in the air.
You're going up elevator? Yeah,you're going through woods,
like, you know, I think it isbetter. But still, I just did
not like the part it was toomuch. Abby is too much of a
character that I did not like,
Red (21:30):
well, I will say I do agree
that Abby's part was too long.
And I'm, I'm kind of torn onthis because I did like the way
they structured. They showed youknow, Ellie's perspective for
the first you know, three orfour days, whatever, three days
and then they switched andshowed what Abby went through
those first few days. Like Ilike that is a storytelling
(21:52):
process too long, but it hadthese was too long. And I didn't
need all this stuff with thewith the two scars that she's
running around with a Yeah, andlately.
Hick (22:03):
I hate that plot point.
It's just
Red (22:04):
it. Part of that is going
to be a criticism on the wolves
in the scars. I'll get to herein just a second. But no, I
liked the method that they toldthe story like showing agree was
Ellie's and then you get theother perspective. Whereas
actually, you know, like, like Isaid, I thought Abby had a
little bit of a better likestory. She's gonna go find her
friend. But I do agree that hersection dragged on way too long.
(22:25):
I did not need to know everylittle thing she did in that
period. Like
Hick (22:29):
it didn't make those three
days, like 10 hours that would
have been perfect. Right. So wegot too far away from that
climax we did and it
Red (22:37):
and I liked how they
married the two stories together
and there was enough overlap.
You can see what was going on. Ireally did like that. But just
all in all, yeah, her sectionAbby section was way too love.
Okay, honestly, both sectionswere weird. Yeah, yep, agreed.
Agree. But so I liked how theyframed that story and told it
but you're absolutely right.
They could have cut it cut downthe length of both of them. But
(23:00):
now I kind of mentioned the twofactions that we're really
dealing with in the game are thescars and the wolves. They're
both very hateable groups thatdon't get any redemption in the
end. And I don't need everyvideo game to have like a
redemption story. Or maybe thisside was right all along or
whatever. Like these two sideswere just one was a bunch of
(23:22):
militant assholes, and one was abunch of religious fanatics. I'm
like it was two unlikable sides,even when you're playing as
Abby, who at the beginning isone of the wolves she eventually
leaves. But like, even whenyou're playing her part as one
of the wolves, they're stilljust a bunch of militant
assholes like, yeah, and thenthe stars don't they never give
you get the one that that getskicked out of the stars, because
(23:46):
he shaved his head of all damnthings.
Hick (23:48):
Yeah, like so we get to
just coast man.
Red (23:53):
But so to me, neither of
those two major factions in this
game had any redeeming qualitieswhatsoever. It's just it's just
two groups fighting each other.
They were there to be gun fodderfor you for Ellie and for Abby.
But to me like, again, I thoughtthat was a missed opportunity to
show Okay, maybe both sideseither side, but the games are
Hick (24:14):
too long. Like you're
almost 25 to 30 hours in, you
start putting those charactersin like I agree with you. But
then you start putting thosecharacters in all of a sudden
you're looking at 35 right ofour game. So
Red (24:25):
yeah, it's just one of
those things where it's like,
there were a lot of differentdirections they could have gone
that I think would have made alittle more sense or fleshed out
fleshed out some of thesecharacters some of these these
cults, whatever, you know,factions, whatever, the only one
was a cult. The other one. Yeah,yeah. But so I don't know, it
was a lot of missedopportunities. But you're right,
it probably would have just madethe game even longer than it
(24:46):
already was it ours but you kindof started hitting on gameplay a
little bit and I think we'vetalked enough about story. I
don't think we Yeah, no,
Hick (24:53):
I want to tell people that
like early on the intro, we said
we're gonna talk about story andchapters. If we go through an
hour just gonna rehash it bunchof stuff that we really already
talked about. So I can't wait toread. I think we should go into
gameplay so kind of go aheadwith what you were saying.
Red (25:06):
So first and foremost, I
really thought the gameplay of
Part Two was worlds better thanthe gameplay in part one it just
felt tighter like it like thecontrols were tighter. The first
one and I think I mentioned thisin the last episode like your
character felt floaty,especially compared to other
Naughty Dog games like I playedthe last was part one like
(25:26):
literally in between two of theUncharted games. And Nathan
Drake controlled so much betterin my opinion than Joel did in
part one. So for part two,right, I keep calling it part
one even though that wasn't thename of it back then. You know
what I mean? But Ellie'scontrols were so much tighter
than the controls in the firstone like she just it was more
precise and I think that led tomore fun like gunplay more fun
(25:49):
stealth just all in all she waseasier to control I thought she
would actually do what youexpected her to do unlike
sometimes the controls with withJoel were a little floaty and
imprecise but with le you dohave to remember it was a the
original
Hick (26:04):
was a ps3 game master but
some of those things same
controls kind of crept into theremaster but go ahead
Red (26:11):
you're absolutely right on
that and that is a good point. I
mean that the original was youknow came out and what doesn't
Yeah, so I mean things weren'tperfect back. No but but no so I
just I really liked some of thelittle changes they made though
to the gameplay like you canjump in yes one instead of just
climbing and I didn't do that aton but you know there were some
places where it worked out welllike jumping over cover you know
(26:33):
things like that. Yeah, and just
Hick (26:36):
made the combat scenarios
more vertical to it. You want to
use that I didn't jump mucheither. But you could do that.
Red (26:43):
No, absolutely. And then
just things like like you dodged
instead of blocked and I feellike in most action video games
I use I'm used to dodge insteadof block because you like dodge
and and then you attack and likeI'm playing goes to Tsushima
right now and I dodge way morethan I blocks
Hick (27:01):
I do is your question. I
know I put that note in the
outline because I saw it on theinternet but demerit that's
actually correct like in thefirst one did you actually just
block and not dodge
Red (27:10):
but to be completely
honest, I can't remember it's
Hick (27:14):
down like okay people were
not absolutely sure on that when
I just read that on the internetabout today I was like I don't
really remember there's onlyblocking the first k but go
ahead right now and so likelittle little
Red (27:26):
things like that I thought
were really good you know one of
our kind of are not reallynecessarily complaints but
something that we talked aboutlast episode for Part one is the
fact that when you stop to craftsomething you know it doesn't
pause the game zombies are stillcoming at you enemies are still
shooting at you when you'retrying to like switch out
weapons or craft a new healthkit you know things like that so
that remained here in part twoin some places it you know it I
(27:49):
do like that it adds a littlerealism you know the the world
doesn't stop when you need toheal yourself I get it
Hick (27:54):
should but like you should
know what kind of player is
playing and like oh hey explainOkay, we're gonna pause the
screen while he's trying tocraft some items here right
Red (28:04):
so so like so that is you
know is a major gameplay element
was still there so but you know,I feel like I've been talking
this whole yeah a few minutes ongameplay so I'll throw it to you
what is your general thoughtskind of on the game? I mean,
Hick (28:15):
really the same as you I
mean a lot of gameplay was the
same as the original Yeah, but Idid like they like you know the
Edit Little things like youwrote in a boat this game um, I
did like that on a horse or notthe first game but you know if
you did ride on a horse thefirst game they made a better in
this game so I mean things werevery very similar they ended
like we are you know, he talkedabout you could jump like combat
(28:37):
was more vertical and stuff. Sooverall the gameplay was very
similar but like you said it wassmoother which makes sense for a
game being released seven yearslater, but I'm just overall
really playing the game like heoffers match on the story quite
a bit even though you know, Ijust we'll we'll kind of get
back to a little bit but um,yeah, the gameplay the gameplay
(28:58):
was solid, man. Like there wasreally not any glitches or
anything like that, like I can'tremember really run into any
issues. The only issue that Ihave is once again just like the
original that stupid like ginderguns like had you had to push
like, up down left, right? Yeah,the hoedown square to switch
weapons. Oh, man. I hate that.
Now later in the game you do getmore slots. Yeah. Which makes it
(29:18):
easier but I hate that mechanicman. You can say talk about
survivalists or all this othercrap like you have to hit
directional buttons like we whenyou're surviving. So I just you
know I know it's a video gameand everything but yeah, I
didn't like that man. I don'tlike that at all but just um you
know crafting like a lot of sameitems you could craft you know
like the hell get Molotov youknow, bombs mines, you know,
(29:38):
whatever. Um, yeah, the pillsagain, I believe to upgrade
abilities. I believe that wasthe same in the first game. And
then you had some collection.
Now, here's the thing that didnot like your trading cards in
this game. I loved those comicbooks in the game. Like those
were so good. It just we talkeda lot in the last episode. About
(30:00):
how the original just kind ofhad those slow moments that
like, you know, there's so muchchaos, right craziness in the
world that there's these littlethings that got you away from
that. Like, you know, one wasthe dress, but you know another
one was those comic books. Yeah,those were very good like points
in the story and then this gamelike you know was missing there
just had artifacts, cool.
Whatever you train cars, readingcomics, they'll seemed a lot
(30:22):
cooler. Ellie seem to like thema lot more like you didn't
really hear talk that much aboutthe train cars now. No, it is a
collection. And there's freakinginfected running around
everywhere. So she's not gonnabe talking about trading cars
that much. And you know, plus,
Red (30:37):
you have so much more in
this one than in the first one.
Yeah.
Hick (30:41):
I don't know. Doesn't the
first or not Who cares? I don't
know. I don't really I think itwas because you had to open up
your slots or whatever. Butoverall, my things on the
gameplay are very good. It wasvery smooth. It was very
enjoyable to play the add acouple of little things like you
know, a couple other like, youknow, I would say not vehicles,
but like, you know, a horse anda boat to get around the larger
(31:02):
area better. Now, one thing Ididn't like about the gameplay,
as we've already mentioned, wasI felt like it was a little bit
too big. But you know, theyweren't trying to be open world,
but they were trying to be openworld like just be linear, very
simple. And like we kind of Idon't feel like rehashing that
but that was one part about thegameplay that just didn't really
care for but let's go ahead. Ithink we're kind of finished on
(31:24):
that.
Red (31:26):
Before we jump, I just will
say I liked how Ellie and Abby
play differently. I mean, youmentioned that like Abby felt a
little more athletic but like itseemed like her section of the
game was a little more directcombat oriented whereas Ellie's
was a lot more stealth it justseemed like the encounters were
and you could do either one withwith both characters, which you
(31:47):
know I loved and one of thegreat parts about the gameplay
is you can in attack theseencounters you can tackle these
encounters either head on orstealth like it gave you that
option and both of them werevery viable it just felt like
Abby sections were a little moredesigned for head to head action
like charging in whereas Ellie'swere a little more designed for
sneaking so I did like that theyat least felt a little bit
(32:08):
different. They had a littledifferent weapons like Ellie had
the regular bow and and Abby hadthe crossbow. So just like
forgot about that. Just littlethings like that. That made it
feel like yeah, you are playingas two different characters.
Like with Abby, you had to craftshivs whereas Ellie had her
pocketknife the whole time likelittle stuff like that it's the
same function generally, butthey still were a little bit
(32:30):
different.
Hick (32:30):
So that's all I wanted to
add on the gate. I hate those
dogs though. I like to get likea certain distance from them. I
absolutely hate those things.
But I kind of want to bro What'sgoing on? Well, you know, did
you kind of want to chime whichis something else you want to
say we never discourage that no,no buts the but I can't say that
name, the damn podcast and theBusted Buttons pockets. Anyways,
you got a legacy talking aboutthe game overall, which I think
(32:54):
it guys kind of know where thisis going. But we've been really
negative so far. And we're gonnacontinue it a little bit in the
legacy but we can also want tobe right I think we should be a
little bit more positive herebecause we do think it's a as I
said, very good game. Overall.
What's your feeling on thelegacy of The Last of Us Part
(33:16):
Two?
Red (33:16):
Well, unfortunately, and
I'm going to be negative for a
second, but it's not actuallyabout the game. Unfortunately,
this game will be remembered.
Unfortunately for the fuckingreview bombing. A bunch of
pissed off little whiny peopledecided to do like one or two
hours right before they even hada chance to play the game.
People were giving this gamezero out of 10s for for no
reason. They were mad that Elliewas a lesbian. They were mad
(33:39):
that Abby looked you know, shewas built not like your
stereotypical video gamecharacter female like or they
were mad that Joel got killedoff or whatever. People were
giving this game zero out of 10son like Metacritic, just because
they didn't like the way thestory went, like people found
every stupid reason to go bashthis game. So the disconnect
(34:00):
between the critical reviewslike the actual professional
fuckers who review games havethis at like a 95 on Metacritic.
94 something like that.
Hick (34:09):
But you know, the whole
argument against them though, is
like no, they get paid a littlebit extra. So if you like you
have a bad rain, you might notget blackballed to do the next
game.
Red (34:19):
So I get that there's a
little disconnect there. But you
know, yeah, the little whinyfuckers who went out and bash
this game and gave it a sirachaI don't care if you hated the
story. Like the gameplay andgraphic women touched graphics
graphics alone make this likeeven if the story absolutely
sucked the gameplay alone wouldmake it a solid seven out of
Hick (34:38):
10 it was like graphically
the best game I've ever seen Oh
until goshima
Red (34:43):
absolutely beautiful game
but you know that's that's more
of a that's not bashing the lastwas part two that's bashing
little idiots who want theirvoices heard on the internet,
you know? Yeah, but those peoplebut so I will say I thought it
was a very good game as well. Itdidn't quite live up to the
first one. I won't remember itactually. fondly as the first
one, but it was still, thegameplay was an improvement. The
(35:04):
graphics, of course, were animprovement. You know, it's
eight years after the first orseven years after the first one
was released, you know, thestory took a little step
backwards, but even by videogame store standards, the story
was very, very good. So, so tome, like, it's, I will always
remember very fondly, like I hada fun time playing it, for the
most part, even with it being akind of dark game, very violent
(35:25):
game, I will still remember itfondly because the gameplay was
amazing. The story was verygood. And it is a beautiful
game. So that's my tire.
Hick (35:37):
Like, you know, it will be
Sally, remember for those review
bombings. But I think it's agame that people are going to
remember for a long time,because it's so polarizing.
There's so many people that wereupset, like, you know, a lot of
people were upset about the samethings. But then there was like
no other people that were justupset about this upset about
this. And then, like, there wasjust a lot of mixed feelings
overall on this game. And like,I'm like, I have mixed feelings
(35:59):
talking about like, I think itwasn't very good game. I didn't
really enjoy the game. Like it'sa great emotional game. But at
the end of the day, like I hadto say, even though I'm saying
it's a very good game, I'mgiving it an 8.5 on my 10 point
skill. I was disappointed. Yeah,that's kind of you know, that's
kind of how I'm gonna remember avery good game. But overall, it
(36:21):
was a disappointment. I thinkthe story definitely took a step
back. Um, you know, just, Idon't know, like, just overall
like, I mean, it's one of themost highly anticipated games,
right? I can remember in a longtime for Shane. It's one of
those games that I feel like themajority was let down. Like if
they liked the game, like wedid, like, I don't really hear
(36:42):
too many people say oh, The Lastof Us Part Two was great. And it
was better than the first oneI've not heard anybody say that
shit, but I'm gonna remember itlike I understand the law of
diminishing returns. Yeah, Iunderstand that a lot of times
the sequel is not better thanthe first one but we were just
expecting so much the ball gamebut they still missed the mark
(37:05):
all right story and it still wasa disappointment and that to me
like you know, he said it's ait's gonna be their legacy. I
think it will be remembered as agood game but yeah, yeah, it's
also gonna be like there's gonnabe a lot of but you know, blah
blah blah. Yeah, but there'sgonna be a lot that when talking
about this game in the dam andhe took forever video games.
Wrap up your goddamn needs.
Okay, do you need to takeforever ghosts Shima I applaud
(37:28):
you for ending the game when Ithought the game was going to be
ending whereas the last of usHey, let's take it to the farm.
No, let's bring her back toSanta Barbara. No, let's take
her back to the farm. And thenoh, let's do a scene with Joe
right here at the end which Ireally did like I'm not
Red (37:46):
gonna i did i like that
too. Like,
Hick (37:48):
actually we've not talked
about the end so here with
legacy actually it's kind ofit's the legacy part on the
ending. What's your wholeopinion on the ending of the
game?
Red (37:58):
Okay, I can first of all I
completely agree that they
stretched out like the the quoteunquote epilogue like the ending
section so much it was like itIt should have just ended Abby
had the chance to kill her butshe doesn't she walks away and
that could have been the endingright there. Yeah, they could
have stopped it right there andit would have felt like you know
(38:19):
maybe the characters actuallymade a little progress maybe the
characters actually learnedsomething you know, Abby decided
not to offer you know, it's butthen they tack on that you know,
it seems like Ellie is so happythere with Dina and the kid and
then fuckin Tommy shows up andis like hey we got no evidence
that you know she might you knowwe have a
Hick (38:40):
It doesn't make sense for
Tommy to show up like that's
just being selfish. Yeah, heunderstands that like you know
Dina and them have a baby soright isn't like that part
because he was a whole human ascommon sense would understand
that you just don't interruptwhat's going on their life when
they have life going on.
Red (38:54):
I agree completely that was
in Tommy had been like a good
character through both games.
Yeah, and then he just seems Iknow he got he got shot he got
hurt. He lost his brother tojust like you know lost her
father figure so I get that hewanted revenge too but like to
go and guilt trip or being likeyou swore that you know if we
ever found her we go afteragain. You know it just Yeah,
(39:14):
when she's there with hergirlfriend or I don't know maybe
they got married they might theymay have been wife at that
point.
Hick (39:21):
There's anything in the
game?
Red (39:22):
Yeah, and so it just it was
and then for her to actually go
after Abby like after Abby lether live for her to decide she
wants to go after I thought itwas just shit character
development. I thought it showedthat they did not the characters
didn't learn or she did notlearn anything. And yes, I get
at the very end she lets Abbylive as well whatever. But I
feel like it pissed away thegood with like when at when Abby
(39:46):
let her live. Just the fact heeven went back after Plus, it
did add more like three morehours to this game. And I was
done with it at that point. Butyou know, so
Hick (39:56):
that's like the host heavy
storyline like when she went to
Santa Barbara Like she's lookingfor the fireflies, right comes
across this group, the rattlerslike I didn't just tacked on, I
just didn't like it like itshould have ended on the farm
the first time, like going tothe farm now, I will say
something I did like the ending,overall. But the way that we got
there and how long it took, Idid not like like, just felt
like, you know, we should endedat the farm the first time, like
(40:18):
going there. And then going backout to Santa Barbara. Yeah. And
then like kind of when you getto the part where Abby and Ellie
are fighting, like that's whereI kind of do start to like the
whole end. And so like we're allwatching today, and it was very
emotional. Like I do think ittook him a while to get there.
But I do think the ending wasvery good and kind of ending on
legacy. I want to ask you aquestion. Has there ever been
(40:42):
anything more shocking in videogames than joking and murder
when he did?
Red (40:46):
The I mean, it's sad. I
mean, you kind of put me on the
spot there. But like, I canthink like the first one where
the daughter got killed, likeright in the first minutes of
the game like that came out ofnowhere. So But still, I mean,
I'd have to sit there andhonestly think about if there's
anything more shocking, but
Hick (41:02):
it's just a pie out there.
I would think
Red (41:04):
I would think it would be
as well because it just you
expect another game playing evenif you're playing as Ellie, you
expect Joel to be there. Andjust having him get off? I think
you know, and I think it'ssomething more games will try to
maybe try to emulate that shockeffect and we see it a little
bit already. And like I saidGame of Thrones took it to the
extreme, but
Hick (41:21):
I will say that shocked me
it just shocked me when it
happened. Like I kind of thoughtthat Joe might die because like
we're It's a crazy world outthere. You know? So it's a very
easy world in which Joe can'tjoking. I can't welcome Joe, you
know can die. I just thought Iwas really shocked how early it
happened in the game. Butanyways, let's kind of talk
about the future of thefranchise. Yep, going forward.
Um, let me ask you a question.
Do you think there will be apart three? I think this
(41:44):
franchise is too profitable forthem not to you, even if they
expect you to go that
Red (41:50):
way. But that is true. I
mean, and even if they think
they've told the story they wantto tell. I mean, there's too
much money on the table forNaughty Dog to this
Hick (41:57):
story is not over. That's
my feeling.
Red (41:59):
Yeah. Because I've been
good with like, okay, now since
Ellie got home, and Deena andthe kid were gone. I could see
her trying to find her and seewhere it went. Or they could go
in an entirely differentdirection. This is a very
unexplored world All in all,yeah, I know when the first game
Yes, we went from frickin Bostonor whatever, or Pittsburgh
wherever we have it. We
Hick (42:19):
made it. So we got a whole
city right there we can explore.
Red (42:22):
So there are a ton of
stories they could tell in a
sequel. And I think financiallythey have to so but what do you
think?
Hick (42:29):
Um, you know, I don't
know, there's gonna be a part
three, the guy like, you know,Neil drunk man, or drunk, drunk
drunk man. Were the drunk, drunkman or whatever his name is
like, you know, he, here's whathe said. He said, going forward,
it would be exponentially harderto justify going back to that
world and find a way to varythings up. But you know, I think
they figured out I do thinklike, I can go with you. I think
(42:51):
the money like I mean, thisthing is so over 4 million units
in his release weekend. Likethat is a ton. There's so much
money now. That doesn't mean youshould release a game. But I do
think there's going to be a partthree in really not that. Like I
think that financial aspectdefinitely plays a role in it.
But as I kind of chimed in, likewhen you were talking, I don't
feel like the story's over.
Like, I feel like there's moreto this story. Like Yeah, Abby,
(43:14):
and Ellie are still out there.
Like, you know, do you thinkokay, you know, I'm not gonna
ask you I'm gonna go to Bob. No,I don't want to be back like I
don't like there's a characterin like, I don't understand
exactly how you go for with her.
I know there is a plot pointthere. And I know that you can't
go for with her. But so here nowhow do you do it?
Red (43:35):
I don't think there's a
reason to bring Abby back. And
they told her story. It wrappedup well, she got to live she's
still with the scar. Love, Ithink was the same. So and I
don't even know what happens toher. I'm good. I'm not I'm not
attached to her. Like Ellie.
Like I said they coulddefinitely have her trying to
find Deena and see where thatfollows out. Your you know,
going back to Tom You mean likehey, I had a chance to kill her
(43:56):
and didn't Yeah, you know, sothey can they can still do some
stuff with la Abby. Oh, I hopeher stories
Hick (44:04):
but what about Ellie's two
fingers though? Like she's I
mean, that's I don't know.
That's definitely a triggerfinger but like I mean, she's
that's gonna put her at adisadvantage, but was also
immune to so
Red (44:15):
she's got that advantage
going for but But much like I
think Abby story is done. Ithink this podcast just about
has to be done here. So yeah, asusual, we've we've flown
through, had a great timetalking about the last was part
two, I think you really hit iton the head. It was good. Very,
very, very good game. Yeah. Notquite at that great threshold, I
think is exactly how
Hick (44:36):
how both of us feel about
it. Well, thank you, night dog
for making a game that was veryenjoyable to play in an
emotional experience,
Red (44:43):
right? Absolutely. So, as
always, all links we're going to
talk about here are going to bedown in the description, you can
support us on Patreon or PayPal.
If you can't support usfinancially, we totally get it.
Leave us a review. Leave us afive star rating that definitely
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(45:07):
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are affiliate shops. Tell us alittle bit about social media
and YouTube.
Hick (45:15):
We got YouTube's were all
started to guess playing Zelda
over 10,000 subscribers so ifyou like Zelda walkthroughs
ranking series, definitely gocheck out that channel we also
have a YouTube channel for tg PCgaming mostly just put our
podcasts there but that's theplatform that you'd like to
listen to. You can go check itout on there although there are
advertisements unless you getYouTube premium anyway, we're on
(45:37):
discord go check out discord ifyou want to continue the
conversation with us we have ablast. They're talking
PlayStation, Xbox, Nintendo PCand some other things like
sports and alcohol and thenwe're also on social media,
Twitter, Twitter, Instagram. Theusername is at Busted Buttons pc
but um, overall read these lasttwo weeks man, they've been a
(45:58):
lot of fun. They've been reallyemotional man because the last
of us isn't emotional franchise,but we just appreciate and enjoy
talking these games with y'all.
So yeah, it's so much fun doingit. But anyways, we're
definitely not doing a game thenext episode because I need a
break from the game. So we'lljust be talking the industry,
but we will see you all on thenext episode.