June 17, 2025 • 64 mins
Join Kritter and Jessica once more as they start off in a new format with a new book, Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros. In episode 2 we discuss the new world, the new format, and chapters 1 though 19. We meet our protagonist, Violet, and are thoroughly immersed in her world and all that goes with that. We visit some of our hits, as well as some misses, with a little dash of prediction and wild theorizing!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to, but Are there Dragons?
A podcast where two friendspick a book at least one of them
hasn't read and chat about it.
I'm your host, Critter.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm your host, jess, and we are here to talk
about the first half of FourthWing by Rebecca Yaros, chapters
1 through 19.
But before we jump into it,critter, good to see you, nice
to be back.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We're back we are back, feels good.
It feels good to be back, it'sbeen a long time.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It was nice.
I've been looking forward tothis and I purposely waited.
I closed my book.
I was very diligent, I followedthe rules and we know that I
struggle with that.
So I've been eager to hear yourthoughts, because this was a
lot of book compared to whatwe've done.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I know.
I know and fun fact foreveryone out there, we didn't
mention this in the intro, butneither of us have read Fourth
Wing, and that was part of thereason we decided to read it.
Not only did have neither of usread it, but it's so pervasive.
People are obsessed with thesebooks.
It's all over BookTok.
(01:10):
There was a midnight releasefor the most recent book, Onyx
Storm, which I think is thethird one or five Sure.
Yeah, we're actually sounfamiliar.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, I stopped looking things up.
We put a moratorium on lookinganything up.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Exactly.
So, yeah, and we're here andwe're going to figure out what
the hype is all about, basically, and we're halfway through book
one to do it.
So how are you feeling aboutthe hype, jessica?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, what I was going to say to that comment
that you just made is I knowfolks who don't even consider
themselves to be fantasy readerswho really have hyped this
story and I feel like, afterbeing halfway through that kind
of tracks, I think that I cansee where this would be really
(02:02):
palatable as almost like astarter series.
I don't consider this to beyoung, cause it does seem like
it's going to have some well,it's got curses in it.
I noticed that we we've gotsome F-bombs right away and it
is notorious for having spice.
So even though the protagonistsare young, I don't know that I
(02:25):
would consider this.
Ya, I don't know, how it'sclassified, because again I
stopped looking things up, butyeah, I think I could probably
put this in the category ofstarter fantasy for somebody to
cut their teeth on.
Intro.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I could see that I kind of disagree with you on the
YA thing.
Okay, I could see that I kindof disagree with you on the YA
thing.
Okay, maybe it's only becausewe've only read the first 19
chapters and if you're readingalong and you're curious, there
is no spice.
I mean, there's nothingexplicit.
They talk about, you know, thefirst years getting it on with
(03:01):
each other, but it's veryliterally behind closed doors.
It's like a character will comeout of a door flushed nothing
has happened on the page nothinghas happened on the page yet
that, combined with the age ofthe characters and just the
overall tone, you know there's alot of like my mom's making me
do this and you know, like allthat stuff that just like it's
(03:24):
just reading ya to me so far sowe'll see.
And it's also, it's even, it'seven giving, like hunger games,
love triangle, you know what Imean?
Like there's the safe one andthen there's the bad one, you
know what?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So there's like all right, so we're just gonna get
into this okay sorry, sorry, soyou know what, and like I do
want to say, well, I guess.
So this is hard.
How did you enjoy reading it?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I thought it was good , like it's a good enough book
to finish.
I would not DNF this book.
It does feel juvenile, not YA a, so I, and maybe that's a
distinction, that only I make,and I am by no means a literary
critic uh I can't write anything.
I can't even sign a holidaygreeting card, so, like, this is
(04:11):
no criticism to the author,it's just stylistically, um, and
maybe some of that is just alittle bit of bias that I carry,
because I have heard that thereis spice coming.
So, to your point, nothing hashappened.
It's all happened behind closeddoors and comments have been
made about characters havinginteractions uh right nothing
(04:33):
has happened on the page, uh,but maybe I'm just kind of ready
for it.
Uh, alert, alerted to it, notalarmed, um, but it does read
kind of juvenile, which I wouldcounter some of the other stuff
I've read with youngerprotagonists.
We wait for them to age up inthat too, but your, your take is
(04:55):
your take and you're completelyentitled to it.
I think that, um, I think thatI don't hang out with 18 and 19
year olds very much, so I thinkthat it might be right on the
mark.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
That's fair, that's fair.
So I actually, as far as likehow I liked it, right, because I
don't want fans of the book tolisten to this first part and be
like, oh, they hate it and moveon, Right, so I'm gonna, I'm
gonna.
I think this might help thosepeople stick around.
I have been telling people thatI've seen in person who know
that I'm reading this for thefirst time.
(05:32):
I'm a high fantasy girly, right, I just read Lord of the Rings
for this podcast.
I'm.
The Wheel of Time is my favoritebook series, right.
I'm not as much into theromanticist though I have read a
court of ACOTAR but so, like,that's where I'm at, that's my
baseline.
So I came into this as someonewho doesn't read this genre as
often, even though technicallyit's still, it doesn't feel as
(05:54):
romanticist yet Because, again,there's not spice yet.
But what I've been tellingpeople about this book is that
it is like, is that it is likeMcDonald's, and by that I mean
you know that it's bad?
No, but don't hear me out.
You know that it's bad, but youwant it anyways.
(06:14):
You want to keep eating it,right, the fries, the burger,
whatever.
I love me.
A good road trip, mcdonald'sstop.
And this is that for me, I readthe first 19 chapters faster
than I've read almost anything.
Right, I inhaled them.
I actually I read them likethree weeks ago and then I
(06:34):
reread them, like in the lastcouple of days, on three times
speed, because I had forgotteneverything that had happened,
because I just inhaled it sofast and I was like what even
happened in this book?
Like I, high, high points, butnothing else.
Um, and when I finished the 19chapters I wanted to keep going.
Yeah, so to the people who werelike oh, you guys are naysayers
(06:57):
, you're hating whatever, Ienjoyed it, even though quality
wise I'm not sure that it's likepristine in that regard, and I
hope that doesn't soundcondescending.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I think that there's a case to be made for when
you're used to reading reallydense and just challenging high
fantasy like high fantasy is notfor everybody.
Challenging high fantasy likehigh fantasy is not for
everybody.
And you and I have cut ourteeth a lot on big, thick tomes
(07:31):
you know not to be like a namedropper but Lord of the Rings,
wheel of Time, the StormlightArchives, which you and I both
really enjoy, those are likethousand page tomes that we have
inhaled and so we are more usedto reading these really thick,
convoluted with lots of plot andthis and that, and I, for what
(07:51):
it's worth, really kind of likedthat this is more
straightforward, just a morereasonable serving size.
I read half a book and went well, I want to keep going Because,
to your point, I do want tofinish it.
I do want to know the rest ofthe story.
I think it's an adjustment forsomebody who is used to reading
(08:11):
really thick, convoluted stuff,like you know.
You and I specifically becauseI know you and I have both been
reading a lot of that over thelast five years.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Right right, right, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
So, no hate, hate, just acknowledging the
differences yeah, it's different, and I'm still pretty new to
the romanticist aspect as wellum I have started akatar on the
side on my own, and so that'skind of a newer aspect too.
Not that there isn't romanceand some of the other things
(08:44):
that we even have in comment,but it it's not in common, but
it's not at the forefront likeit is with some of these other
series.
So yeah a little bit of a shift.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Just a bit Honestly.
It's, you know, other than justcalling it McDonald's.
You could describe it as beachfantasy.
It's a beach read, it's avacation read.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I brought this on my honeymoon.
I brought this book in my.
Kindle on travel days I sat bythe pool with this book.
It was great.
You can put it in your beachbag and you can take it with you
.
But I think that in otheraspects it really holds up.
I felt like the stakes arethere.
I'm invested in the character.
(09:26):
She's a little young for me.
I think that says more about methan it does about her.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
So yeah, I'm in it.
I'm ready to keep going Same,because I want to see the close
of the first story right Like Iwant to see how it goes for the
second half.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I'm eager and I feel like I'm versed enough in
romanticism to and and let meknow if you had the same
instinct and be honest but themoment she saw, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Zayden Zayden Ry, zayden Zayden Zayden.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Ryerson Ryerson.
Well, the audiobook is ZaydenRyerson, the moment she saw him.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It's like an eight-sentence description.
He's tall, with wind-blownblack hair and dark brows.
The line of his jaw is strongand covered with warm tawny.
The highlighted note next to itis love triangle.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Okay, exactly, and hold on, because I also have a
piece highlighted from this.
And.
And when I say okay, so thewhole point of that was to say,
the moment we got introduced tohim I thought, okay, enemies to
lovers trope.
Like, no doubt in my mindthey're gonna bang, not even no
hesitation.
It's literally written on thewall.
(10:41):
But it made me laugh and Idon't want the haters to be like
, oh god, they're set so highand mighty, but like I have to
read part of this because it'sso, it made me laugh out loud
whenever I heard it.
Okay, so give me a second.
Um, here we go, you've got thewindmill.
Black hair.
Okay, and his eyes.
His eyes are the shade of gold,flecked onyx.
(11:02):
This contrast is startling, jawdropping.
Even everything about him ishis features are the shade of
gold, flecked onyx.
This contrast is startling, jawdropping.
Even everything about him ishis features are so harsh that
they look carved and yet they'reastonishingly perfect, like an
artist worth worked a lifetimesculpting him and at least a
year of that was spent on hismouth, like I've never heard of.
(11:24):
Like you know how you got likelike butt guys and boob guys and
like girls.
Girls like biceps, girls likesmiles.
Never in my life have I heardthat like a mouth person, but
she that's not the only timethat she's talked about his
mouth specifically, so anyways,I laughed out loud.
At least a year of thesculptors time was spent on his
(11:47):
mouth.
I'm I don't know.
Did you have the same reactionto this description?
I?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
did, I did, but at the same time, I'm fine with
keeping it light, like I.
I really think that that was,and we've talked about this ad
nauseum in other episodes.
I am a very passive reader,like okay, so that's the tone,
I'm gonna match the vibe and I'mgonna roll with it and we're
gonna see but I had the sameexact thought.
Like this is gonna be anenemies to lovers, he's
(12:13):
absolutely gonna be the otherleg of a love triangle oh yeah,
without a doubt, I actually.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
So I read the next part of this that I wanted to
share, which is just later on inthis, in this on this on the
next page.
I read it to mr critter becauseI was like this is a
description, this is how theprose is going thus far, and it
happened so early in the booksthat I was like I don't know
about this.
So, um, we've got.
Even the diagonal scar thatbisects his left eyebrow and
marks the top corner of hischeek only makes him hotter,
(12:40):
flaming, hot, scorching, getsyou into trouble and you like it
.
Level of hot, can we not like?
Let's think of another.
I said, I told that to MrCritter and he's like like the
Cheetos.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Flaming hot Cheetos.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So, anyways, there's a couple of times in this book
that made me pause and laugh,because I was just like, come on
, guys, there's gotta be abetter way to describe him, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
So I will say, in that moment I felt like we were
hearing it in violets againjuvenile juvenile is not meant
punitively right Like, but whenI was 18, 19, yeah, I think
you're the, I think, yes, Ithink you're right yeah, I think
you're the.
I think.
Yes, I think you're right.
I think my inner monologue waspretty young too.
So in my mind what happens inthose moments is we are hearing
(13:31):
this from violet's perspective,and her perspective is still a
baby compared to mine at thispoint.
Not, and again not, um, notnegative, you know, I'm just
acknowledging the fact that 19year old me was a way different
animal than today.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You're not wrong.
You're not wrong.
I just had to point a couple ofthose things out because they
made me chuckle.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Kind of like I did with Tolkien right, Like there
are times where I chalked it upto the voice of the narrator.
I did here as well, just in a adifferent way that was probably
the way I should have done it.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Instead, it took me out of the story.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Sometimes it was really late sometimes like
that's very blatant and it wasvery early on and I'm like, okay
, so we're adjusting.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
okay, 19 year old girl.
19 year old girl.
Keep telling yourself got it,got.
Keep telling yourself that, gotit, got it, yeah, yeah.
So we've got the obvious lovetriangle incoming, and it's only
become more obvious as the asthe 19 chapters went on.
Right now they're forcedtogether for the rest of their
lives because of their dragonbonds.
(14:39):
Their dragons are mates Likeyou cannot.
You could not plan that better.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
But Well, let's, let's take a second and set that
stage right, Like so.
Not that I am good at summaries, but we meet Violet.
She's in the war college.
So many things I'm not going totry to pronounce, Um, and cause
I don't have audio book workingfor me, um, so we meet her.
She winds up making it acrossthe parapet.
(15:07):
She winds up making it throughtheir version of boot camp to
the threshing all the while,there's stuff percolating under
the surface with zayden and dane, who she has known her whole
life, and that's the other legof the triangle.
We keep getting told indifferent ways through the story
(15:30):
about how clever Violet is.
I personally, I think thatViolet's adorable, so I like the
fact that she's a book nerd.
I like the fact that she dropslore as a method to distract
herself when she's nervous.
I think that it was a cleverdevice for the author and I
(15:51):
think that it's endearing me toher much more than I would have
thought even in the beginning.
Um, than I would have thoughteven in the beginning, um.
And then so she finds ways totake advantage of the fact that
she's not as big, she's not asstrong, she's not as practiced
as all of her quote-unquotepeers.
Um, makes it through threshing,gets picked by not one dragon
(16:14):
but two very special and then wewind up to find out that the
dragon, one of the dragons thatshe is bonded with, is also
bonded mated to zadans.
And we left off with wow, andjust like that I lost the entire
last chapter.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I was doing so good you believed we left off with
the people attacking her becauseshe has the best dragon, and
her little dragon, that everyonethought was weak, turns out to
be a juvenile that can transferher powers to Violet
accidentally.
But the juvenile dragon savesViolet by stopping time, and
(16:55):
then we find out that, yeah,she's a baby, which is kind of
alarming, which is a huge reveal.
Right and stopping time is askill.
I can't remember the word forit, it's a signet.
It's a signet.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
A signet is the powers they bestow on the humans
, I think.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Right, right, right right.
So, whether that becomes asignet or not, the power that
the feather tail has is intenseand should be kept a secret
because of how powerful it is.
Like stopping time, whoa iscrazy.
Um, so yeah, and that's wherewe are.
Because their dragons are mated, they are essentially bonded
for life because if either ofthem dies, one their dragon will
(17:38):
, I guess, die and then theother dragon will die.
So it's a big tragic.
It's a big tragic situationthat we're in right now so it's
like a water bond, but withdragons if you're a wheel of
time, yeah.
If you're a wheel of time fan,yes, and.
And you can communicatetelepathically, which is
interesting pretty interesting,yeah, um.
(18:02):
So anyways, curious to see howlong it takes them from being
like psychically linked tobanging right.
I watch it be like chapter 20,like we stopped right before it
happened.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Right before, yeah, um, I do feel like that was one
of my predictions and that wasseriously, I think, chapter two.
I was like these guys are goingto have a relationship,
something's happening here.
You don't spend that longdescribing how beautiful this
boy is for it not to come tofruition.
Other prediction I had was thatDane was going to get it
(18:41):
together and kiss her and shewas going to realize just
kidding, that's not what I want.
And that did in fact happen.
So that was kind of agratifying moment that came to
fruition in the first half ofthe book.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
How early was it that you realized that Dane is
insufferable?
Because it was pretty early.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Let me see there might be a bookmark for that.
Hold on, I do remember, likeholding my head going I don't
know if it's just how middleaged white girl I am but like
tell me one more time that Ican't do the thing and that I'll
definitely die Go ahead.
Tell me again.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Try to save me when I don't want to be saved.
Come on, do it.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, he uh chapter three when she claps back and
says 15 of the candidates don'tmake it.
But I did so yeah, by thesecond time he tried to smuggle
her to the scribes, by thesecond time she had to repeat
(19:41):
herself, I was like no literally, literally, I mean I was
actually a little proud of herfor realizing that.
You know, dane ain't the one umbecause of how kind of
degrading and belittling that isfrom a behavioral perspective
at one point he's like she'slike what did she say?
Speaker 1 (20:05):
something like you, you're here, you survived, or
something like that.
And he's like but I'm a writer.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
It's like uh, so could she be what have I been
doing this whole time?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
literally oh my gosh, he drove me nuts.
He drove me nuts.
So it wasn't even like a truelove triangle, because he was
eliminated for me almostimmediately, plus the writing
was so on the wall I meantechnically it hasn't happened
yet, so I guess they don'tnecessarily definitely get
together, zayden and violet.
But let's be honest, yes, theydo.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, somebody's got to scratch that itch.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Exactly, exactly.
So we've been talking about theromance for most of it, but I
think we need to circle back andtalk about the beginning, right
, the way it was introduced, andI think it was a pretty good
introduction, because for me,I've read a lot of books lately
where they drop me in and I justlike I'm just not into them
(21:03):
right, like it's something aboutthe way it's introduced, how
the character, the maincharacter, is brought up,
whatever it is where I'm justlike not hooked and I think,
like having it be the morning ofright the threshing or not
threshing, the morning of theparapet, like her dealing with
her family, it just kind of likethrew us into a really intense
(21:23):
situation and gave us room tolike get to know her too.
Right, because we got to knowher family right out of the gate
and then we got to know her andhow she like faces trials,
tribulations, literally, um, butit did.
Getting to know her familyspecifically was interesting
because when I found out thather mom was forcing her to do
(21:44):
something that was likely tokill her, knowing that she is
just incredibly weak accordingto her and everyone else, it to
me felt kind of unrealistic.
Kind of unrealistic.
No, no, it's like as a parentthat feels like something I
would never, ever, ever, ever,ever do.
So how did that hit you Like?
(22:05):
Do you think the mom wasunrealistic or do you think
she's just a horrible person?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
or something else.
I choose to believe that thereis something else going on, so I
guess that would be myconspiracy theory, because I
don't want to believe that.
Her mother it to me at least atthis point in the story would
read like if that's the case andthere was no nothing else going
(22:32):
on that we haven't been cluedin on yet, then that would mean
that she put her military careerabove the well-being of her
children, and I have a reallyhard time buying that yeah sight
unseen like give me more.
So they talk about the commandermelgren and how he's got a
(22:56):
power that sounds a lot likeforeshadowing um, or his dragon
has that power, and I was likethere is a case that could be
made that somewhere, some, somemechanism is allowed that
somebody's clued her in, thatviolet's a really important part
of something coming up andcould be informed like.
(23:19):
So that's my like.
Shoot from the hip.
Wild theory is that somehow Ithink it's melgren's dragon.
I don't have that descriptionhere, because why would I?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
get.
It's his signet that he canpredict the outcomes of battles,
of battles, yes, yeah um, andto me that's, that's not far off
from foretelling yeah, no,you're not wrong so has he, has
he seen something, or issomebody else subject to a
(23:53):
foretelling type skill?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
and somehow, um, her mom has been made aware that
violet's really important,because obviously I want to
believe that violet's importantand she didn't just push her
into it just because she's asoaring gale, because that's god
awful right, that's badparenting, bad parenting 101.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
so, since we're doing harebrained theories, are you
ready for one of my harebrainedtheories, because we're talking
about violet's family?
Yes, okay, I and this is dumbbecause I think it's all but
confirmed but I think that herbrother is alive and that maybe
he defected.
That's what I think.
So I'm not sure, because wealso we found out that like
(24:44):
somebody died trying to bringhim back to life, yes, yes, and
so I'm just not sure about allthat.
You know, we don't know enoughand I'm not like, maybe, maybe
they did bury his body and Imissed that remark right
Somewhere in the book, and ifthey did, that's on me.
But I just like the moment Iheard, like he's dead, there's
this book that they're readingabout him.
(25:05):
Um, there's some weird thing,like I have a feeling that we're
gonna find out.
This is part of the theory thatviolets, like whatever the
military, whatever thegovernment is that she's under,
is actually terrible and thatthe other side is the good side,
and that he found out anddefected and they covered it up.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
That's where I'm at.
Funny story that you mentionedthat, because I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna take your storyabout Brendan because, yes, I
love that.
I hope that.
I hope that that's real.
I was kind of thinking maybethe dad like we never hear how
dad died.
They described how Brendan died.
They didn't describe how daddied.
So maybe her dad but whatever,there were definitely different
(25:50):
parts where, once she gotthrough the parapet during you
know, the bootcamp phase,whatever they call it in here,
and they started doing battlebriefs, I was like I can't help
but wonder how much of this?
I don't think propaganda isnecessarily the right word, but
it is certainly from a certainperspective.
(26:11):
So all of these rebels areattacking.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Looking for something .
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Are they completely without cause like?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
uh-huh, we're not hearing anything on that side
yeah, yeah, I'm just not sure,I'm just not buying they don't
really consider myself to beanti-establishment as a person,
you know.
But yeah, I just I think it'sone of one of it's one of those
things where, like when I sawZayden and I was like immediate
enemies to lovers, like it justpinged me in my mind.
(26:43):
I was like her brother's dead.
Everyone loved her brother.
He's not dead.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I hope that's true.
I hope that's true.
So as we hear more about thisgovernment structure and how
they're having the kidsconscripted in for the parents'
sins, I'm like that is crappygovernment yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
And they can't gather in more than three people?
Yeah, and then it's a deathpenalty.
Like are you joking?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Like are you joking?
Yeah, it's interesting, and youhave to think, because dragons
are like old and wise at leastin the you know that's what they
are in the zeitgeist andmythology Unless dragons every
year are willing to bond withthese riders and the wards are
faltering and all this stuff.
So I'm just thinking like, aredragons losing faith?
(27:37):
Are they realizing that theymight be on the wrong side too?
You know, there's just a lotthat has me and I wouldn't call
myself anti-establishment, Iwould call myself like a skeptic
, like I'm not just gonna, youknow, believe things that people
tell me right, or like you know, just because the government
(27:58):
says it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
It's right.
I think that's just being afunctioning adult at this point
in our timelines you're notwrong.
Um so yeah, there's justbasically my first instinct when
I hear something is that'sprobably a lie well, and I did
like the fact, so I'm gonna goon the dragon path a little bit
so, um, I did like the fact thatas soon as we meet dragons from
(28:19):
violet's's perspective, almostwithin the same breath, we find
out that humans don't know asmuch about dragons as they think
they do.
They do have the professor, whois very, very versed in
knowledge, but it turns out thedragons are holding some stuff
close to the vest as well.
So, I'm interested to see whatwe don't know about dragons.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, like when Violet's big dragon was like
please tell me what dragons lookfor in a writer, as if that's
the stupidest thing I've everheard Tern, is that how they
said it?
Yeah, that's what they said inthe audiobook.
I'm terrible at names so Iforgot.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And the little gold one is Andara.
It's like darnarum and darna Ithink is what they say in the
book.
Yeah, yeah so, yeah, I thinkthat, um, I think that there's
some stuff to learn there and Ican't wait.
I think that there's there'sbeen some nuggets there that
mean that we're going to getsome reveals.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Mm-hmm.
It did make me second-guess mylike faith in dragons, when that
stupid what's his face?
Oh my gosh, the comically evilguy, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Jack.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Barlow, jack Barlow, when a dragon bonded him.
I was like okay, maybe dragonshave terrible taste, maybe they
do like evil people but itkilled the other evil, kid tynan
yeah, yeah, I don't know.
The fact that barla got adragon didn't sit right with me,
(29:52):
but I guess, like dragons,maybe also are varied in their
good and bad is a spectrum.
Yeah, so maybe that's maybethat orange dragon.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Maybe that's a little bit of this messaging as well,
like Good and evil are on aspectrum and people are on a
spectrum, and some of that mightbe.
I'd like to think that we'regoing to see some depth and some
growth with that For the maincharacter, um in in the
(30:22):
storyline by consequence do youthink jack barlow is gonna have
a redemption arc?
because that guy no ridiculousyou remember that character
named mo ash.
I feel the same way about jackbarlow that I do about mo ash.
That's a Stormlight Archivesreference and I apologize
everybody.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
But yeah, yeah he, the moment we met him, and then
he threw a kid off the parapetfor no reason.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
My name's Jack Barlow .
You're going to want toremember it.
I'm going to be a wing leader.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
And I wrote F that guy.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
F that guy and then their first day of sparring,
when they're literally just likefeeling things out they're not
meant to hurt each other hesnaps a kid's neck, like what is
happening?
I'm sorry, but what kind of aperson Like?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I guess technically psychopaths exist, so we just
happen to have one in DragonSchool in in dragon school and
so that for me really paralleledum the hunger games with the um
capital kids, the kids who wereput into the lottery from the
(31:30):
capital, and how they weretrained that was that vibe?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
and just as icky like the the district one and two
the careers the careers.
That's what it was, yeah I justread the new, the newer hunger
games, suzanne collins books,the uh sunrise on the reaping
and ballad of songbirds andsnakes, so it's a little fresh
for me.
I hadn't read hunger games inforever um, but I read those two
recently, so, yeah, I neverfinished.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Never finished the original hunger games.
I think I read the first book.
I don't think I finished theseries.
That was a while ago.
I might have.
That was a really long time agodid you watch the movies?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
yeah, yeah, I've seen them all, okay, so you know
what happens.
Okay, that's good.
They are pretty faithful, likepretty faithful to the books.
Not perfect, but quite, um,okay.
So, yeah, jack barlow pos, wehate him.
Yeah, their their idea to killa dragon, like that dragon's a
liability, like yes, what I'mlike like are you not worried
(32:35):
about getting in trouble?
Like nothing.
I don't know if that one to me.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
His whole arc has me just like this guy's not real,
yeah it's, as opposed, likewhat's the opposite of mvp, mup,
very unimportant person likemost hated person, mhp.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
He's my even more than dane.
He's just because he's so evil.
He's just dumb and evil.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I don't know so dane was giving me some real lawful
good vibes.
Um, yes, so again and I'm sorryfor those who are watching or
listening who?
Speaker 1 (33:07):
aren't where you're going people, but he gives me
such a gallant yes, he does, hedoes it's so bad, but it's so
feel like well, but I can't dothat because it'd be breaking
the rule right, right, I love,love that whenever he kissed her
like they kiss, and then thenext day or whatever, he's like
we actually can't be togetherbecause of the rules and she's
(33:30):
like, okay, oh no, oh, shucks,what a disappointment broken
well, yeah, and she just gotfurther icked out like okay.
So even if I was into this,you'd say no because of the
rules.
Like that's kind of annoying.
Obviously I don't mean thatmuch to you if the rules mean
more, basically, um, so yeah, Ihate dane, hate dane, although I
(33:56):
did predict at the very, verybeginning.
When he met rianne riannon forthe first time, I was like oh,
they're gonna get togetherbecause they were like sparring
too, but I think she I don'tshe's either bi or a lesbian, so
I'm not sure that she would beinto him.
She does say that he's hot, sothere's still a chance if he
just like gets his the stick outof his behind and um.
But I don't know if that'llever happen.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
So that's interesting .
Yeah, I think that.
Yeah, I could totally see thatthe rihanna and dane pairing
yeah, yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Okay.
So there was one question thatI had towards the beginning, but
it was resolved.
Um, she actually answered.
It was so violet right as maincharacter.
She has this affliction of somekind, um like, not necessarily
described very well, but it's.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
She just breaks easily yeah, so I honestly was
like does she have eller danlossyndrome?
So I'm not a clinician nor doplay one on TV, but I know a
couple of people who haveEhlers-Danlos and the prone to
injury and even like her jointsdon't stay where they're
(35:08):
supposed to, kind of thing.
There are a couple ofreferences in the book that
really kind of make me think of.
Ehlers-danlos is a um, aconnective tissue disease, um's
genetic um and I was like isthat what she's got?
and also on top of that, I'mlike is she actually weak or is
she just not super buff like hersiblings?
Speaker 1 (35:32):
okay, so are you ready for an external knowledge
bomb drop that doesn't haveanything to do with the story?
Sure, okay, so uh, apparently,and I remember this from tiktok,
so uh, but I googled it just toconfirm rebecca yaros has,
eller danlos did I get thatright?
I think you got that right.
(35:53):
I think I think violence isself-insert um based on that
information.
So, yeah, I think whatever thataffliction is, it's meant to be
you know, whether it'sofficially that or just like
supposed to be the fantasyversion of that.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I think she's got it, so yeah yeah, because I'm like
if you fell on a parapet likeyou would have bruises, you
would have damages, you couldsprain a joint, like you could
do all of those things.
but there was one section inparticular where she was talking
about how she has to wrap herknee.
Um, mr jessica has a familymember who has eller danlos
(36:33):
confirmed diagnosis and uh, itwas a running joke, not so about
how her patella often was notwhere it was supposed to be,
because your patella floats incartilage and so if you have a
cartilage disease, it's aproblem.
Yeah, so, yeah, there's just.
I was like it's really thewrapping of the joints and all
(36:55):
of that just gave me that vibe.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Okay, well, I think you hit the nail right on the
head with that one.
I'm not going to lie.
Before I put two and twotogether, I was like we get it,
you're weak.
Oh my God, you're weak.
But then when I realized, oh no, this is more than that, chill
out.
She's really dealing withsomething other than just the
fact that she didn't hit the gymit made a lot more sense to me
(37:21):
but, yeah, made less sense thather mom put her through dragon
school yeah, that condition.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I want to believe that there is something else
happening like even if it's notas benevolent as what I painted-
um I would like to believe thatthere is some other reason why
her mother has driven, you know,has drawn such a strict line
and, yes, you will go, andthere's no way around it.
Yeah, I can't, as a mother, Ican't countenance any reason why
(37:51):
you would send your child in sounprepared.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I mean she did mention.
I want to say that she was likesmart enough or something, I
don't know she said some kind ofa compliment.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, she passed the proficiency test.
She's more than intelligentenough.
Um, that was never in question.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Like still as an adult looking out for your child
no way you know what they'recapable of you, one would hope,
right that you know what whatthey are are not capable of, and
you wouldn't send them in sophysically unprepared yeah, yeah
, I tend to agree, unless, Iguess, and the alternative like,
(38:31):
unlike dane, who didn't believeshe could do anything, maybe
her mom just really believed shecould do it, I don't know.
I mean, it does seem prettybrutal out there, but it does.
Maybe she just thought.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
The casual killing is a little alarming.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, that's part of the reason that I think this
particular country is the badcountry.
Like what?
Why are we encouraging any ofthis?
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I don't know, it's pretty pretty wild college
students killing each other.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
It doesn't feel yeah, like anything that anybody
would encourage.
Um, yeah, yeah, there's certainthings about this story that,
to me, are just like.
This isn't real.
I just like I know it's afantasy book, but what kind of
culture are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (39:20):
What kind of setting have we created where this is so
normalized that it'scommonplace?
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Exactly, exactly, right, yeah, so I know we talked
about doing the top five typesituation and I know we might
want like talk about eachsituation that we we get into a
little bit, so I feel likestarting it, you know, before
the end of the time might makesense.
(39:47):
So how do you feel aboutdigging into that unless?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
you have something else, let's do it.
Um, and the problem is Ialready gave you one of mine.
(40:13):
I want to hear it.
15% of candidates don't make itpast the parapet and I'm still
standing, so I guess I'm beatingthose odds already and I was
like hell, yeah, girl, yes youare.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
So I think, relatedly , I really enjoyed the parapet,
like the actual scene.
It felt suspenseful and, as yousaid, like she started reciting
(40:43):
facts to like get her mindright and it did feel like
telling, not showing us somefacts, but it was.
It was good and believable inthe sense that like, yeah,
talking, like saying things overand over again, it's like a
meditation type practice, sothat could work.
Um, I also like, as part ofthat, I enjoyed that she like
gave her boot to her friend.
All of that stuff was kind ofall I thought that was brilliant
.
Yeah, all wrapped together injust a nice intro to the
(41:05):
character, because it was thestupid evil guy chasing after
her and then she stopped himwith her dagger.
It was a fun introduction I'llput it that way.
So that's on my list, and theseare in no particular order, by
the way way, and I also haven'tprepared my list in advance, but
I did just, I did just readthem, so I should be able to
pull them, uh, from my recentmemory um.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Do you want to give one?
Speaker 1 (41:32):
yeah, sure, okay.
So another one that I enjoyedwas the um, was the uh, zayden's
little club.
The night that violet was outforaging poisons and she finds
out that zayden can controlshadows and they have their
first really tense, you know,like cats kind of feeling each
(41:55):
other out in an alley situation.
Um, you know, sexual tensionoff the charts.
Um, the fact that he's notkilling her right away, all of
it is just, and she's like hotand bothered by him but still
mad at him and they're sparringback and forth and like, and the
fact that she realizes like sheis more chaotic, good, I think.
(42:15):
And she's like this istechnically illegal but like
you're not actually doinganything wrong, so I'm not gonna
rat you out and dane can't knowbecause he's a little snitch,
and yeah, it just felt like itgave me a better idea of who she
was as a person, at the sametime of like a fun scene with
like little romantic type banter.
(42:37):
So I like that scene a lot Ilike that too.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Um, another one that I liked is a different one,
which is where zayden wasphysically sparring with her and
actually giving her pointers,um and and, not for the foreplay
aspect of it.
So much as I think it's goodwhen those characters push each
other and I do think that theauthor did a good job writing
(43:04):
their interactions I found itvery enjoyable and I thought
that it was believable that thecharacter is growing, she's
expecting one thing, she'sencountering another and, to
your point, seeing her have toreassess the situation and
reassess this person on the flyassess this person on the fly.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, I mean, that would definitely also be in my
top five and um, I actuallywrote down something that she
said and I can't rememberexactly what it was, the where
it came from.
It was like maybe you knowwhatever he was telling her like
you, you could use the knifelike it's a good fit at this
angle.
And she's like I couldn't helpbut think about what else would
be a good fit at this angle whenhe's like straddling her.
Sorry, some of her innermonologue is like cringy to me,
(43:49):
but that was funny, like in agood way it made me laugh, like
relate to her.
Um.
So not only was it a fun scene,that is was like tailor made
for the screen, like I couldliterally see it in my mind's
eye.
He's like pulling daggers outfrom her and like throwing them
off into the corners and daneslike gathering them up, looking
all mad um but yeah, I thinkthat's something I would say for
(44:10):
this author is that she does doa good job of painting a visual
picture.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Um, I'm not very good at visualizing.
So I think that I think that itspeaks to her ability to be
able to really kind of set ascene and paint a picture.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
I think you're right.
Okay, you go.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
My next one has to be Dragons man.
I loved the initial interactionbetween Violet and Tarn.
Tarn sounds like a grumpy oldgrandfather in my head.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
On the audiobook too.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
And Darna is just a cute little marshmallow and I
just loved the interactions.
I couldn't get enough yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
I picture and Darna as like toothless from how to
train your dragon, because theway she describes it, but gold
and like a little fluffytoothless but gold and fluffy.
Because literally at one pointshe said she looked at me and
her with her head at an almostimpossible angle and you know
how toothless goes, like fullsideways, like that's what I
picture.
Yeah, like immediately.
And she said you know her round, more rounded eyes and like
(45:24):
full sideways, like that's whatI picture.
Yeah, like immediately.
And she said you know her round, more rounded eyes and like a
bunch of it's, just like it wasjust toothless, fluffy, golden,
toothless.
In my mind I wonder if there'sfan art out there.
That's like that is there?
probably is not that we cangoogle it yet, but maybe later
yeah, yeah, I definitely don'twant to google it, since we find
out that feather tails are justbabies, apparently, and who
(45:45):
knows what she's going to turnout to be in her full glory.
I'm trying to think of what mynext one would be, and part of
me thinks it's I think it had.
Well, one of them for surewould be the moment that she was
assaulted in her room and timestopped and zayden just like
(46:07):
fully obliterated her assailants, like all of that was just like
a whole, like okay, it'sfinally happening.
Like they said, everyone's gonnabe trying to kill you at all
times.
And then she got the bestdragon and they're like now
everyone's really gonna betrying to kill you.
And even though technicallyit's a rule that you're not
supposed to kill people in theirsleep, like these people are
freaking lawless like this is abrutal place and so yeah I was
(46:29):
surprised that they hadn't triedto kill in her sleep earlier.
Um, but yeah, that whole scenewas just like really like, oh,
edge of your seat, exciting andand you know, of course he's
written this way but zaydenbeing like such a bad boy and
just like killing them withoutany regard, I was like, okay,
zayden, look at you, you know.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
Well, I mean, like most, like a lot of women my age
, I do have a weakness for badboys.
So I am curious to see, youknow, when we get to hear more
of Zayden's backstory, about howhe got here.
I'm sure we will.
Um, one of my other favoritemoments, honestly, is just a
quote from early in the book um,it's while they're going up to
(47:11):
the parapet.
It's riannon.
My kindle keeps falling asleep.
Hold on, that's okay.
Um, I can't effing wait,riannon smile widens.
I mean, who wouldn't want toride a dragon?
Speaker 1 (47:27):
and it was such a relatable moment in chapter
three or whatever, and I waslike yes, yeah, yes.
Only since I was seven yearsold have I wanted to ride a
dragon so yeah, yeah her, likethere I looped that into my
first favorite, the parapetmoment or or whatever, but yeah
her and Rhiannon generally arejust a lovely duo.
(47:47):
I'm glad that they're friends.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
And the duality right Like made friends with Rhiannon
, made enemies with Jack Barlowand then, there was a victim, so
is that fridging the poor boythat got?
Speaker 1 (47:59):
killed.
I don't think he motivated them.
I think he was a plot device ofjust like, don't get
comfortable yeah, and that wasit.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Really, is this dangerous?
Speaker 1 (48:10):
yeah, right, like you might think plot armor and of
course we do think some peoplehave plot armor but like, what
was his name?
Was it trevor, the guy who'slike we can marry earlier if we
get out of dragon school andthen he falls off the parapet?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
that's the kid that I'm talking about he had a ring
on a necklace and he was like inthree years yeah I'm marrying
that girl yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
So I think that was literally because you hear these
people getting to know eachother, like, okay, they're
sharing boots, they're talkingabout getting married, whatever,
so it feels like a little trioof friends forming and then one
of them just dies.
So it does feel like the rug islike ripped out from under.
You don't get comfortable.
That's what I think.
That was not fridging becausewe didn't, you know it wasn't
(48:53):
motivational, yeah and theydidn't know him from bob, but um
, it was.
It was just a little jarring.
Not as jarring, though, as whenstupid jack barlow just threw
someone off the parapet BecauseI can't believe that's allowed.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think I've only done fourand I'm trying to decide,
(49:16):
because I've got a moment in mymind and I think I'm going to
you know what You're right thatthe like, the interactions with
the dragon, and like Taryn, andlike holding her on him is
hilarious, but I want to sayjust for like, once again making
me appreciate the character ofViolet more whenever she stood
up for the feather tail againstlike three guys, even though
she's you know has zero chance.
(49:39):
She has zero chance of beatingthem.
That was admirable.
And a chance of beating them,that was admirable.
And and the fact that, like sheknew what they were doing and
that they could easily hurt herand she like risked herself to
go find the dragon and warn it,like that was a good moment for
me and tierney commented on it.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
I don't think I highlighted it, but he made a
comment about you know, there'smore than one way to be strong
right, right, so that was a goodmoment for me.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
I liked it.
Yeah, I think that makes five.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
I think yeah, I don't have anything else.
Um uh, obviously, like you said, um andarna, freezing
everything in time was a hellacool way to um handle the
situation and made for a greatmid-book, um climax yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
With 19 chapters in, we picked a perfect way we did
to end honestly, honestly, um.
So I guess, like before we getinto our mvp, which we do all
the time in every episode, Ithink or maybe, maybe not our
earliest episodes I'm trying toremember, like when we started
doing MVPs.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Second or third?
Yeah, I mean definitely in thefirst season, but I don't know
if the first couple had it ornot.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, yeah, we started doing it, but I guess
what would you, jessica, say tothe naysayers?
Because I know, when weannounced that this is the book
that we were reading, we are ina community that has a lot of
high fantasy fans, and so someof them were like what you know,
(51:15):
some of them were skeptical.
So what would you say to theskeptics?
Speaker 2 (51:22):
I would say that every story is different and
come to it with an open mind.
You know what I mean.
Like yeah.
I want to see how the storygoes.
This has the potential to be areally fun story all the way
through.
Do I think it's going toreplace my top five reads?
probably not, but that doesn'tmean it isn't a good story to
(51:42):
tell or a good story to read.
So you know you can set asidethe baggage that you're bringing
with you.
If you're going to hold it to adifferent standard, then you're
probably not going to be happywith it.
But the same could be true ofany story.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to put it.
I think what I would say is, inthe same way that I love shows
right like succession, andbreaking bad and mad men, the
prestige shows, the deep shows,the shows that everyone agrees
are incredible and, you know,worthwhile, I also personally
(52:21):
love and will absolutely inhalethe Secret Lives of Mormon Wives
right.
And this book and when that cameout, I was watching it like
every five, like every time Iwould get a minute, I would turn
it on my phone, right, I wasobsessed.
That's what this is for me.
Fourth Wing right now is mySecret Lives of Mormonormon
(52:44):
wives.
It is, you know, not the mostsubstantial thing that I've ever
read um, but I am having a goodtime reading it, and not
everything has to belife-changing exactly.
It's just fun, and so, if youcan kind of like, pause the I
need to be reading somethingthat's critically acclaimed,
(53:05):
pause that part of your brainand you just want to read
something for funsies.
This is.
This is a book that you candefinitely read for funsies.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
I think it's somewhere between the guilty,
guilty pleasure and the beachread.
Like you said, like I, I alwayswhen I pick my kindle up.
I'm excited to come back to itum I don't often feel out of the
story or out of kilts, like outof sync with it, um, and I
(53:33):
think there's a lot to be saidfor that, and I I feel like that
makes it sound like I'm tryingto tamp down a bad review.
I don't have a bad review ofthis story so far.
I'm really into it and I can'twait to read the second half.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Yeah, I wouldn't call , and I know that I was a little
snarky about a couple of thelines that I read and that I'll
own that because I was.
But overall, again, I had a tonof fun reading it and I would
recommend it to anyone who Ithink has the capability of
(54:07):
chilling out for a little bitand just reading something you
know, eating mcdonald's insteadof your fancy if you're looking
for herodotus or plato orsocrates is this a story for you
probably not no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Probably I understand like honestly, most of the
stuff I read probably not foryou, right, right.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Yeah, so that's where I'm at.
So if you're on the fence andyou're watching this just to see
, and obviously if you haven't-read it yet and you're watching
this spoilers, spoilers, sosorry, sorry about that.
But hey, we've only read thefirst half and you can get
through the first half fast,because I did, yeah, and the
second half is all a mystery andapparently contains all the
(54:47):
spice in the book, assumingthere is spice.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Allegedly, we were told there was spice.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
I actually wasn't told.
I'm only assuming, based on thefanaticism surrounding the book
.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
I feel like I was told.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
I feel like I was told.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
I feel like I saw it in a romanticanticy list
somewhere, and you know whatsure I could be totally wrong.
This, this is.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
This is just proof that we came into this with no
foreknowledge, with as littleexpectation as possible, which?
Is really the way we like to dothese things yeah, it's true,
it's true.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
So, overall, enjoying it.
Is it tolkien?
No, but this is a wholedifferent ball game.
It's a whole different era ofour lives, okay and I didn't
need it to be.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
I didn't need it to be tolkien so exactly, exactly,
okay.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Well, are we going to pick an MVP for this episode?
I feel like we should.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
Okay, I'm kind of on the fence.
I have two names in mind.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, I've got, I think I have my pick and I have
a runner-up.
I think that's what I'm goingto go with.
So what about we?
Since we're doing this inhalves my pick and I have a
runner up, I think that's whatI'm gonna go with.
So what about we?
Like, since we're doing this inhalves, like, why don't we
assign one point to an mvp and ahalf point to the runner up for
(56:16):
the ultimate and book mvpresolution?
Speaker 2 (56:20):
okay, yeah I can live with that okay do you want to
go first?
Do you want me to go first?
Speaker 1 (56:26):
I'll go first.
Okay, I'll give you myrunner-up first.
How's that sound?
Sounds good.
Okay, my runner-up is I don'tknow her name violet's sister.
Thank you, mira.
My runner-up is mira, becausewithout that book that she gave
(56:47):
Violet, without her help ofViolet, before the parapet,
getting rid of the pack,repacking the pack, giving her
the boots, giving her the vest.
Speaker 2 (56:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
She would have died a thousand times.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
The book would not have happened.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
The book would not have happened without book,
would not have happened withoutmira.
So mira is my runner-up.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Okay, you go, you can do your runner-up well, now I
feel bad, because that was areally, really smart runner-up.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
No, dude, you follow your heart, man.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
We all have different things that we value I honestly
want to pick zayden as arunner-up, because I think that
he really is clocking everythingthat's happening and, in his
own way, has been keeping an eyeon her for a while.
I feel like at some pointanother harebrained prophecy, uh
(57:39):
prediction we're gonna find out.
I feel like we're gonna findout later that he's been
watching her um benevolently formuch longer than violet
realizes, like all of thesetimes, that she's like he could
have killed me.
Why hasn't he killed me?
That's because he hasn't beenas mad at her as she thought he
(58:00):
was the whole time, if thatmakes any sense at all no, I
think, I think it does.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
I think it definitely does.
Um, I think so.
Adding to the like brotherisn't dead theory, they also
dropped just this very casualfact that I want to say was it
zayden's dad had a sister orzayden had a sister either way?
There's like, there's a,there's a random person that
he's related to.
That's out in the wild.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
And.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
I'm just really intrigued by how that person
might be involved.
Are they going to be in lovewith Violet's brother.
That feels like it would bekind of an age gap that might be
an issue, but we don't know.
We don't actually know how oldthis sister is.
Anyways, I could be stretching,but every time somebody just
(58:50):
like casually says something ina book, I'm like wait, why did
you say that?
Yeah, why do we want to knowthat this, the person that
violet's mom killed, had asister?
Why do we need to know that?
And it's just like this feelsso.
Romeo and juliet, by the way,like you killed my father, I
killed your brother like all.
Speaker 2 (59:11):
That's very much, you and catherine yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:15):
So it's, it's, uh, it's yeah, it's giving romeo and
juliet.
For me it's like in the sameway that the first book of
akatar, without any spoilers,felt like beauty and the beast,
like, yes, that was beauty andthe beast and this is roman
juliet, but we'll see, but atleast there's dragons and
there's dragons, which is great.
We love dragons.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
Okay, so I'm gonna have you do your mvp okay, so my
mvp is gonna be rihanna,because I think that it's really
important when you are goingthrough um life or death boot
camp, that you have a bestie toget through it and that they all
of their interactions arereally positive, really
(59:58):
supportive and very um balanced.
You know what I mean, like shehelps rihanna and rnon helps her
.
They look out for each other.
Um and I just think that it's.
I think that it's hugelyimportant for somebody who is
the the commander's daughter andcould be very isolated.
I never, never, underestimatethe power of having a good
(01:00:20):
bestie.
Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, um, now I feel badbecause, uh, neither of us will
have picked violet for anythingI thought about it, I really did
.
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
I swear you know what .
How many times did we pickfrodo?
It's true, almost never, almostnever.
Um, I don't.
I don't think we picked bilbovery often either, so it just
tracks it tracks, it tracks.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
So my mvp was actually zayden, which I kind of
hate now as like a feminist youknow why am I giving him credit
, but but I do think that he hasmore to him and I feel like we
got that from the very beginningright.
He didn't kill her right away.
He said like, let's see, theparapet will kill you, I don't
have to worry about it.
And then you know, he made surethat none of the other rebels
(01:01:06):
like we're gonna hurt her hecalled dibs on her so that none
of them would hurt her and hegave her the tip that got her up
the obstacle course, which, bythe way, was another thing that
made me laugh, because it'sliterally american ninja warrior
.
It's literally american ninjawarrior.
The last thing, the ramp.
That's the final stage ofamerican ninja warrior.
It's literally american ninjawarrior.
The last thing, the ramp.
That's the final stage ofamerican ninja warrior.
(01:01:30):
Also, love it, love it, anyways.
I'm just picturing them runningamerican ninja warrior, but, um
, so, anyways, he gave her thehint that helped her with that.
He gave her that sparringadvice.
Like he didn't tell about herpoisoning.
There were so many things thathe could have ruined her, yeah,
and he just didn't.
And then he killed all thepeople who were attacking her.
(01:01:51):
So, like mira, he's part of thereason the violets alive.
Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
So yeah, I really appreciate that he's been
putting on a show for a verylong time.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I, I really liked him.
Plus, I just have a thing forbad boys.
What can I say?
So, yeah, that's where we're at.
Mvp.
For me, awesome Feels good.
Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
So I think that that's a wrap on.
Season five, episode one, soour next episode.
We will finish the book, so wewill read the second half of the
book.
Looking at my cheat sheet.
Just kidding, that's not mycheat sheet.
I'll look at my cheat sheet.
(01:02:36):
So this episode is supposed toair June 17th and, as long as
life goes the way that it'ssupposed to, the second episode,
which will be the rest of thebook, should drop july 1st.
that is our current plan so forany of you who are reading along
or want to know what when tolook out, that's when you should
(01:02:58):
look.
July 1st is when you should seethe rest of our discussion on
fourth wing.
Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
And I think in that episode we will reveal whether
we want to continue the series.
I think I don't want to makethat call now, since we're only
halfway through the book.
I think.
I'll be comfortable making thatcall once we finish the book
right now.
I definitely want to finish thebook and we'll see if that
instinct rolls over into wantingto finish the series same, cool
(01:03:30):
, totally okay, so we're onboard.
Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
So with that, we will say thank you so much for
joining us for our first regularseason episode of season five
of but are there dragons?
Brought to you by your hosts,jessica Sedai and CritterXD.
Please don't forget to followus at but Are there Dragons?
On YouTube, instagram andTikTok and but Dragons Pod?
Just one T on X.
(01:03:55):
You can also find your hosts onsocial media as CritterXD and
Social Indultants.
That's it for us today.
We commend chapters 1 through19 of Fourth Wing to Malik Bye
Bye.
Welcome to, but Are there Dragons?
A podcast where two friendspick a book at least one of them
hasn't read and chat about it.
I'm your host, Critter.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
And I'm your host, jess, and we are here to talk
about the first half of FourthWing by Rebecca Yaros, chapters
1 through 19.
But before we jump into it,critter, good to see you, nice
to be back.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
We're back we are back, feels good.
It feels good to be back, it'sbeen a long time.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
It was nice.
I've been looking forward tothis and I purposely waited.
I closed my book.
I was very diligent, I followedthe rules and we know that I
struggle with that.
So I've been eager to hear yourthoughts, because this was a
lot of book compared to whatwe've done.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
I know.
I know and fun fact foreveryone out there, we didn't
mention this in the intro, butneither of us have read Fourth
Wing, and that was part of thereason we decided to read it.
Not only did have neither of usread it, but it's so pervasive.
People are obsessed with thesebooks.
It's all over BookTok.
(01:10):
There was a midnight releasefor the most recent book, Onyx
Storm, which I think is thethird one or five Sure.
Yeah, we're actually sounfamiliar.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Well, I stopped looking things up.
We put a moratorium on lookinganything up.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
Exactly.
So, yeah, and we're here andwe're going to figure out what
the hype is all about, basically, and we're halfway through book
one to do it.
So how are you feeling aboutthe hype, jessica?
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Well, what I was going to say to that comment
that you just made is I knowfolks who don't even consider
themselves to be fantasy readerswho really have hyped this
story and I feel like, afterbeing halfway through that kind
of tracks, I think that I cansee where this would be really
(02:02):
palatable as almost like astarter series.
I don't consider this to beyoung, cause it does seem like
it's going to have some well,it's got curses in it.
I noticed that we we've gotsome F-bombs right away and it
is notorious for having spice.
So even though the protagonistsare young, I don't know that I
(02:25):
would consider this.
Ya, I don't know, how it'sclassified, because again I
stopped looking things up, butyeah, I think I could probably
put this in the category ofstarter fantasy for somebody to
cut their teeth on.
Intro.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
I could see that I kind of disagree with you on the
YA thing.
Okay, I could see that I kindof disagree with you on the YA
thing.
Okay, maybe it's only becausewe've only read the first 19
chapters and if you're readingalong and you're curious, there
is no spice.
I mean, there's nothingexplicit.
They talk about, you know, thefirst years getting it on with
(03:01):
each other, but it's veryliterally behind closed doors.
It's like a character will comeout of a door flushed nothing
has happened on the page nothinghas happened on the page yet
that, combined with the age ofthe characters and just the
overall tone, you know there's alot of like my mom's making me
do this and you know, like allthat stuff that just like it's
(03:24):
just reading ya to me so far sowe'll see.
And it's also, it's even, it'seven giving, like hunger games,
love triangle, you know what Imean?
Like there's the safe one andthen there's the bad one, you
know what?
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I mean.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
So there's like all right, so we're just gonna get
into this okay sorry, sorry, soyou know what, and like I do
want to say, well, I guess.
So this is hard.
How did you enjoy reading it?
Speaker 2 (03:51):
I thought it was good , like it's a good enough book
to finish.
I would not DNF this book.
It does feel juvenile, not YA a, so I, and maybe that's a
distinction, that only I make,and I am by no means a literary
critic uh I can't write anything.
I can't even sign a holidaygreeting card, so, like, this is
(04:11):
no criticism to the author,it's just stylistically, um, and
maybe some of that is just alittle bit of bias that I carry,
because I have heard that thereis spice coming.
So, to your point, nothing hashappened.
It's all happened behind closeddoors and comments have been
made about characters havinginteractions uh right nothing
(04:33):
has happened on the page, uh,but maybe I'm just kind of ready
for it.
Uh, alert, alerted to it, notalarmed, um, but it does read
kind of juvenile, which I wouldcounter some of the other stuff
I've read with youngerprotagonists.
We wait for them to age up inthat too, but your, your take is
(04:55):
your take and you're completelyentitled to it.
I think that, um, I think thatI don't hang out with 18 and 19
year olds very much, so I thinkthat it might be right on the
mark.
Speaker 1 (05:11):
That's fair, that's fair.
So I actually, as far as likehow I liked it, right, because I
don't want fans of the book tolisten to this first part and be
like, oh, they hate it and moveon, Right, so I'm gonna, I'm
gonna.
I think this might help thosepeople stick around.
I have been telling people thatI've seen in person who know
that I'm reading this for thefirst time.
(05:32):
I'm a high fantasy girly, right, I just read Lord of the Rings
for this podcast.
I'm.
The Wheel of Time is my favoritebook series, right.
I'm not as much into theromanticist though I have read a
court of ACOTAR but so, like,that's where I'm at, that's my
baseline.
So I came into this as someonewho doesn't read this genre as
often, even though technicallyit's still, it doesn't feel as
(05:54):
romanticist yet Because, again,there's not spice yet.
But what I've been tellingpeople about this book is that
it is like, is that it is likeMcDonald's, and by that I mean
you know that it's bad?
No, but don't hear me out.
You know that it's bad, but youwant it anyways.
(06:14):
You want to keep eating it,right, the fries, the burger,
whatever.
I love me.
A good road trip, mcdonald'sstop.
And this is that for me, I readthe first 19 chapters faster
than I've read almost anything.
Right, I inhaled them.
I actually I read them likethree weeks ago and then I
(06:34):
reread them, like in the lastcouple of days, on three times
speed, because I had forgotteneverything that had happened,
because I just inhaled it sofast and I was like what even
happened in this book?
Like I, high, high points, butnothing else.
Um, and when I finished the 19chapters I wanted to keep going.
Yeah, so to the people who werelike oh, you guys are naysayers
(06:57):
, you're hating whatever, Ienjoyed it, even though quality
wise I'm not sure that it's likepristine in that regard, and I
hope that doesn't soundcondescending.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I think that there's a case to be made for when
you're used to reading reallydense and just challenging high
fantasy like high fantasy is notfor everybody.
Challenging high fantasy likehigh fantasy is not for
everybody.
And you and I have cut ourteeth a lot on big, thick tomes
(07:31):
you know not to be like a namedropper but Lord of the Rings,
wheel of Time, the StormlightArchives, which you and I both
really enjoy, those are likethousand page tomes that we have
inhaled and so we are more usedto reading these really thick,
convoluted with lots of plot andthis and that, and I, for what
(07:51):
it's worth, really kind of likedthat this is more
straightforward, just a morereasonable serving size.
I read half a book and went well, I want to keep going Because,
to your point, I do want tofinish it.
I do want to know the rest ofthe story.
I think it's an adjustment forsomebody who is used to reading
(08:11):
really thick, convoluted stuff,like you know.
You and I specifically becauseI know you and I have both been
reading a lot of that over thelast five years.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
Right right, right, right yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
So, no hate, hate, just acknowledging the
differences yeah, it's different, and I'm still pretty new to
the romanticist aspect as wellum I have started akatar on the
side on my own, and so that'skind of a newer aspect too.
Not that there isn't romanceand some of the other things
(08:44):
that we even have in comment,but it it's not in common, but
it's not at the forefront likeit is with some of these other
series.
So yeah a little bit of a shift.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Just a bit Honestly.
It's, you know, other than justcalling it McDonald's.
You could describe it as beachfantasy.
It's a beach read, it's avacation read.
Speaker 2 (09:05):
I brought this on my honeymoon.
I brought this book in my.
Kindle on travel days I sat bythe pool with this book.
It was great.
You can put it in your beachbag and you can take it with you
.
But I think that in otheraspects it really holds up.
I felt like the stakes arethere.
I'm invested in the character.
(09:26):
She's a little young for me.
I think that says more about methan it does about her.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
So yeah, I'm in it.
I'm ready to keep going Same,because I want to see the close
of the first story right Like Iwant to see how it goes for the
second half.
Speaker 1 (09:45):
I'm eager and I feel like I'm versed enough in
romanticism to and and let meknow if you had the same
instinct and be honest but themoment she saw, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Zayden Zayden Ry, zayden Zayden Zayden.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
Ryerson Ryerson.
Well, the audiobook is ZaydenRyerson, the moment she saw him.
Speaker 2 (10:09):
It's like an eight-sentence description.
He's tall, with wind-blownblack hair and dark brows.
The line of his jaw is strongand covered with warm tawny.
The highlighted note next to itis love triangle.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
Okay, exactly, and hold on, because I also have a
piece highlighted from this.
And.
And when I say okay, so thewhole point of that was to say,
the moment we got introduced tohim I thought, okay, enemies to
lovers trope.
Like, no doubt in my mindthey're gonna bang, not even no
hesitation.
It's literally written on thewall.
(10:41):
But it made me laugh and Idon't want the haters to be like
, oh god, they're set so highand mighty, but like I have to
read part of this because it'sso, it made me laugh out loud
whenever I heard it.
Okay, so give me a second.
Um, here we go, you've got thewindmill.
Black hair.
Okay, and his eyes.
His eyes are the shade of gold,flecked onyx.
(11:02):
This contrast is startling, jawdropping.
Even everything about him ishis features are the shade of
gold, flecked onyx.
This contrast is startling, jawdropping.
Even everything about him ishis features are so harsh that
they look carved and yet they'reastonishingly perfect, like an
artist worth worked a lifetimesculpting him and at least a
year of that was spent on hismouth, like I've never heard of.
(11:24):
Like you know how you got likelike butt guys and boob guys and
like girls.
Girls like biceps, girls likesmiles.
Never in my life have I heardthat like a mouth person, but
she that's not the only timethat she's talked about his
mouth specifically, so anyways,I laughed out loud.
At least a year of thesculptors time was spent on his
(11:47):
mouth.
I'm I don't know.
Did you have the same reactionto this description?
I?
Speaker 2 (11:50):
did, I did, but at the same time, I'm fine with
keeping it light, like I.
I really think that that was,and we've talked about this ad
nauseum in other episodes.
I am a very passive reader,like okay, so that's the tone,
I'm gonna match the vibe and I'mgonna roll with it and we're
gonna see but I had the sameexact thought.
Like this is gonna be anenemies to lovers, he's
(12:13):
absolutely gonna be the otherleg of a love triangle oh yeah,
without a doubt, I actually.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
So I read the next part of this that I wanted to
share, which is just later on inthis, in this on this on the
next page.
I read it to mr critter becauseI was like this is a
description, this is how theprose is going thus far, and it
happened so early in the booksthat I was like I don't know
about this.
So, um, we've got.
Even the diagonal scar thatbisects his left eyebrow and
marks the top corner of hischeek only makes him hotter,
(12:40):
flaming, hot, scorching, getsyou into trouble and you like it
.
Level of hot, can we not like?
Let's think of another.
I said, I told that to MrCritter and he's like like the
Cheetos.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Flaming hot Cheetos.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
So, anyways, there's a couple of times in this book
that made me pause and laugh,because I was just like, come on
, guys, there's gotta be abetter way to describe him, I
don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
So I will say, in that moment I felt like we were
hearing it in violets againjuvenile juvenile is not meant
punitively right Like, but whenI was 18, 19, yeah, I think
you're the, I think, yes, Ithink you're right yeah, I think
you're the.
I think.
Yes, I think you're right.
I think my inner monologue waspretty young too.
So in my mind what happens inthose moments is we are hearing
(13:31):
this from violet's perspective,and her perspective is still a
baby compared to mine at thispoint.
Not, and again not, um, notnegative, you know, I'm just
acknowledging the fact that 19year old me was a way different
animal than today.
Speaker 1 (13:47):
You're not wrong.
You're not wrong.
I just had to point a couple ofthose things out because they
made me chuckle.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
Kind of like I did with Tolkien right, Like there
are times where I chalked it upto the voice of the narrator.
I did here as well, just in a adifferent way that was probably
the way I should have done it.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Instead, it took me out of the story.
Speaker 2 (14:10):
Sometimes it was really late sometimes like
that's very blatant and it wasvery early on and I'm like, okay
, so we're adjusting.
Speaker 1 (14:19):
okay, 19 year old girl.
19 year old girl.
Keep telling yourself got it,got.
Keep telling yourself that, gotit, got it, yeah, yeah.
So we've got the obvious lovetriangle incoming, and it's only
become more obvious as the asthe 19 chapters went on.
Right now they're forcedtogether for the rest of their
lives because of their dragonbonds.
(14:39):
Their dragons are mates Likeyou cannot.
You could not plan that better.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
But Well, let's, let's take a second and set that
stage right, Like so.
Not that I am good at summaries, but we meet Violet.
She's in the war college.
So many things I'm not going totry to pronounce, Um, and cause
I don't have audio book workingfor me, um, so we meet her.
She winds up making it acrossthe parapet.
(15:07):
She winds up making it throughtheir version of boot camp to
the threshing all the while,there's stuff percolating under
the surface with zayden and dane, who she has known her whole
life, and that's the other legof the triangle.
We keep getting told indifferent ways through the story
(15:30):
about how clever Violet is.
I personally, I think thatViolet's adorable, so I like the
fact that she's a book nerd.
I like the fact that she dropslore as a method to distract
herself when she's nervous.
I think that it was a cleverdevice for the author and I
(15:51):
think that it's endearing me toher much more than I would have
thought even in the beginning.
Um, than I would have thoughteven in the beginning, um.
And then so she finds ways totake advantage of the fact that
she's not as big, she's not asstrong, she's not as practiced
as all of her quote-unquotepeers.
Um, makes it through threshing,gets picked by not one dragon
(16:14):
but two very special and then wewind up to find out that the
dragon, one of the dragons thatshe is bonded with, is also
bonded mated to zadans.
And we left off with wow, andjust like that I lost the entire
last chapter.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
I was doing so good you believed we left off with
the people attacking her becauseshe has the best dragon, and
her little dragon, that everyonethought was weak, turns out to
be a juvenile that can transferher powers to Violet
accidentally.
But the juvenile dragon savesViolet by stopping time, and
(16:55):
then we find out that, yeah,she's a baby, which is kind of
alarming, which is a huge reveal.
Right and stopping time is askill.
I can't remember the word forit, it's a signet.
It's a signet.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
A signet is the powers they bestow on the humans
, I think.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Right, right, right right.
So, whether that becomes asignet or not, the power that
the feather tail has is intenseand should be kept a secret
because of how powerful it is.
Like stopping time, whoa iscrazy.
Um, so yeah, and that's wherewe are.
Because their dragons are mated, they are essentially bonded
for life because if either ofthem dies, one their dragon will
(17:38):
, I guess, die and then theother dragon will die.
So it's a big tragic.
It's a big tragic situationthat we're in right now so it's
like a water bond, but withdragons if you're a wheel of
time, yeah.
If you're a wheel of time fan,yes, and.
And you can communicatetelepathically, which is
interesting pretty interesting,yeah, um.
(18:02):
So anyways, curious to see howlong it takes them from being
like psychically linked tobanging right.
I watch it be like chapter 20,like we stopped right before it
happened.
Speaker 2 (18:14):
Right before, yeah, um, I do feel like that was one
of my predictions and that wasseriously, I think, chapter two.
I was like these guys are goingto have a relationship,
something's happening here.
You don't spend that longdescribing how beautiful this
boy is for it not to come tofruition.
Other prediction I had was thatDane was going to get it
(18:41):
together and kiss her and shewas going to realize just
kidding, that's not what I want.
And that did in fact happen.
So that was kind of agratifying moment that came to
fruition in the first half ofthe book.
Speaker 1 (18:50):
How early was it that you realized that Dane is
insufferable?
Because it was pretty early.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
Let me see there might be a bookmark for that.
Hold on, I do remember, likeholding my head going I don't
know if it's just how middleaged white girl I am but like
tell me one more time that Ican't do the thing and that I'll
definitely die Go ahead.
Tell me again.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
Try to save me when I don't want to be saved.
Come on, do it.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Yeah, he uh chapter three when she claps back and
says 15 of the candidates don'tmake it.
But I did so yeah, by thesecond time he tried to smuggle
her to the scribes, by thesecond time she had to repeat
(19:41):
herself, I was like no literally, literally, I mean I was
actually a little proud of herfor realizing that.
You know, dane ain't the one umbecause of how kind of
degrading and belittling that isfrom a behavioral perspective
at one point he's like she'slike what did she say?
Speaker 1 (20:05):
something like you, you're here, you survived, or
something like that.
And he's like but I'm a writer.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
It's like uh, so could she be what have I been
doing this whole time?
Speaker 1 (20:16):
literally oh my gosh, he drove me nuts.
He drove me nuts.
So it wasn't even like a truelove triangle, because he was
eliminated for me almostimmediately, plus the writing
was so on the wall I meantechnically it hasn't happened
yet, so I guess they don'tnecessarily definitely get
together, zayden and violet.
But let's be honest, yes, theydo.
Speaker 2 (20:37):
Yeah, somebody's got to scratch that itch.
Speaker 1 (20:42):
Exactly, exactly.
So we've been talking about theromance for most of it, but I
think we need to circle back andtalk about the beginning, right
, the way it was introduced, andI think it was a pretty good
introduction, because for me,I've read a lot of books lately
where they drop me in and I justlike I'm just not into them
(21:03):
right, like it's something aboutthe way it's introduced, how
the character, the maincharacter, is brought up,
whatever it is where I'm justlike not hooked and I think,
like having it be the morning ofright the threshing or not
threshing, the morning of theparapet, like her dealing with
her family, it just kind of likethrew us into a really intense
(21:23):
situation and gave us room tolike get to know her too.
Right, because we got to knowher family right out of the gate
and then we got to know her andhow she like faces trials,
tribulations, literally, um, butit did.
Getting to know her familyspecifically was interesting
because when I found out thather mom was forcing her to do
(21:44):
something that was likely tokill her, knowing that she is
just incredibly weak accordingto her and everyone else, it to
me felt kind of unrealistic.
Kind of unrealistic.
No, no, it's like as a parentthat feels like something I
would never, ever, ever, ever,ever do.
So how did that hit you Like?
(22:05):
Do you think the mom wasunrealistic or do you think
she's just a horrible person?
Speaker 2 (22:09):
or something else.
I choose to believe that thereis something else going on, so I
guess that would be myconspiracy theory, because I
don't want to believe that.
Her mother it to me at least atthis point in the story would
read like if that's the case andthere was no nothing else going
(22:32):
on that we haven't been cluedin on yet, then that would mean
that she put her military careerabove the well-being of her
children, and I have a reallyhard time buying that yeah sight
unseen like give me more.
So they talk about the commandermelgren and how he's got a
(22:56):
power that sounds a lot likeforeshadowing um, or his dragon
has that power, and I was likethere is a case that could be
made that somewhere, some, somemechanism is allowed that
somebody's clued her in, thatviolet's a really important part
of something coming up andcould be informed like.
(23:19):
So that's my like.
Shoot from the hip.
Wild theory is that somehow Ithink it's melgren's dragon.
I don't have that descriptionhere, because why would I?
Speaker 1 (23:33):
get.
It's his signet that he canpredict the outcomes of battles,
of battles, yes, yeah um, andto me that's, that's not far off
from foretelling yeah, no,you're not wrong so has he, has
he seen something, or issomebody else subject to a
(23:53):
foretelling type skill?
Speaker 2 (23:56):
and somehow, um, her mom has been made aware that
violet's really important,because obviously I want to
believe that violet's importantand she didn't just push her
into it just because she's asoaring gale, because that's god
awful right, that's badparenting, bad parenting 101.
Speaker 1 (24:17):
so, since we're doing harebrained theories, are you
ready for one of my harebrainedtheories, because we're talking
about violet's family?
Yes, okay, I and this is dumbbecause I think it's all but
confirmed but I think that herbrother is alive and that maybe
he defected.
That's what I think.
So I'm not sure, because wealso we found out that like
(24:44):
somebody died trying to bringhim back to life, yes, yes, and
so I'm just not sure about allthat.
You know, we don't know enoughand I'm not like, maybe, maybe
they did bury his body and Imissed that remark right
Somewhere in the book, and ifthey did, that's on me.
But I just like the moment Iheard, like he's dead, there's
this book that they're readingabout him.
(25:05):
Um, there's some weird thing,like I have a feeling that we're
gonna find out.
This is part of the theory thatviolets, like whatever the
military, whatever thegovernment is that she's under,
is actually terrible and thatthe other side is the good side,
and that he found out anddefected and they covered it up.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
That's where I'm at.
Funny story that you mentionedthat, because I'm not gonna.
I'm not gonna take your storyabout Brendan because, yes, I
love that.
I hope that.
I hope that that's real.
I was kind of thinking maybethe dad like we never hear how
dad died.
They described how Brendan died.
They didn't describe how daddied.
So maybe her dad but whatever,there were definitely different
(25:50):
parts where, once she gotthrough the parapet during you
know, the bootcamp phase,whatever they call it in here,
and they started doing battlebriefs, I was like I can't help
but wonder how much of this?
I don't think propaganda isnecessarily the right word, but
it is certainly from a certainperspective.
(26:11):
So all of these rebels areattacking.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Looking for something .
Speaker 2 (26:19):
Are they completely without cause like?
Speaker 1 (26:22):
uh-huh, we're not hearing anything on that side
yeah, yeah, I'm just not sure,I'm just not buying they don't
really consider myself to beanti-establishment as a person,
you know.
But yeah, I just I think it'sone of one of it's one of those
things where, like when I sawZayden and I was like immediate
enemies to lovers, like it justpinged me in my mind.
(26:43):
I was like her brother's dead.
Everyone loved her brother.
He's not dead.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
I hope that's true.
I hope that's true.
So as we hear more about thisgovernment structure and how
they're having the kidsconscripted in for the parents'
sins, I'm like that is crappygovernment yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (27:09):
And they can't gather in more than three people?
Yeah, and then it's a deathpenalty.
Like are you joking?
Speaker 2 (27:16):
Yeah, it's interesting.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Like are you joking?
Yeah, it's interesting, and youhave to think, because dragons
are like old and wise at leastin the you know that's what they
are in the zeitgeist andmythology Unless dragons every
year are willing to bond withthese riders and the wards are
faltering and all this stuff.
So I'm just thinking like, aredragons losing faith?
(27:37):
Are they realizing that theymight be on the wrong side too?
You know, there's just a lotthat has me and I wouldn't call
myself anti-establishment, Iwould call myself like a skeptic
, like I'm not just gonna, youknow, believe things that people
tell me right, or like you know, just because the government
(27:58):
says it.
Speaker 2 (27:58):
It's right.
I think that's just being afunctioning adult at this point
in our timelines you're notwrong.
Um so yeah, there's justbasically my first instinct when
I hear something is that'sprobably a lie well, and I did
like the fact, so I'm gonna goon the dragon path a little bit
so, um, I did like the fact thatas soon as we meet dragons from
(28:19):
violet's's perspective, almostwithin the same breath, we find
out that humans don't know asmuch about dragons as they think
they do.
They do have the professor, whois very, very versed in
knowledge, but it turns out thedragons are holding some stuff
close to the vest as well.
So, I'm interested to see whatwe don't know about dragons.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Yeah, like when Violet's big dragon was like
please tell me what dragons lookfor in a writer, as if that's
the stupidest thing I've everheard Tern, is that how they
said it?
Yeah, that's what they said inthe audiobook.
I'm terrible at names so Iforgot.
Speaker 2 (28:55):
And the little gold one is Andara.
It's like darnarum and darna Ithink is what they say in the
book.
Yeah, yeah so, yeah, I thinkthat, um, I think that there's
some stuff to learn there and Ican't wait.
I think that there's there'sbeen some nuggets there that
mean that we're going to getsome reveals.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
Mm-hmm.
It did make me second-guess mylike faith in dragons, when that
stupid what's his face?
Oh my gosh, the comically evilguy, Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 (29:31):
Jack.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
Barlow, jack Barlow, when a dragon bonded him.
I was like okay, maybe dragonshave terrible taste, maybe they
do like evil people but itkilled the other evil, kid tynan
yeah, yeah, I don't know.
The fact that barla got adragon didn't sit right with me,
(29:52):
but I guess, like dragons,maybe also are varied in their
good and bad is a spectrum.
Yeah, so maybe that's maybethat orange dragon.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Maybe that's a little bit of this messaging as well,
like Good and evil are on aspectrum and people are on a
spectrum, and some of that mightbe.
I'd like to think that we'regoing to see some depth and some
growth with that For the maincharacter, um in in the
(30:22):
storyline by consequence do youthink jack barlow is gonna have
a redemption arc?
because that guy no ridiculousyou remember that character
named mo ash.
I feel the same way about jackbarlow that I do about mo ash.
That's a Stormlight Archivesreference and I apologize
everybody.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
But yeah, yeah he, the moment we met him, and then
he threw a kid off the parapetfor no reason.
Speaker 2 (30:49):
My name's Jack Barlow .
You're going to want toremember it.
I'm going to be a wing leader.
Speaker 1 (30:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:53):
And I wrote F that guy.
Speaker 1 (30:55):
F that guy and then their first day of sparring,
when they're literally just likefeeling things out they're not
meant to hurt each other hesnaps a kid's neck, like what is
happening?
I'm sorry, but what kind of aperson Like?
Speaker 2 (31:08):
I guess technically psychopaths exist, so we just
happen to have one in DragonSchool in in dragon school and
so that for me really paralleledum the hunger games with the um
capital kids, the kids who wereput into the lottery from the
(31:30):
capital, and how they weretrained that was that vibe?
Speaker 1 (31:35):
and just as icky like the the district one and two
the careers the careers.
That's what it was, yeah I justread the new, the newer hunger
games, suzanne collins books,the uh sunrise on the reaping
and ballad of songbirds andsnakes, so it's a little fresh
for me.
I hadn't read hunger games inforever um, but I read those two
recently, so, yeah, I neverfinished.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Never finished the original hunger games.
I think I read the first book.
I don't think I finished theseries.
That was a while ago.
I might have.
That was a really long time agodid you watch the movies?
Speaker 1 (32:10):
yeah, yeah, I've seen them all, okay, so you know
what happens.
Okay, that's good.
They are pretty faithful, likepretty faithful to the books.
Not perfect, but quite, um,okay.
So, yeah, jack barlow pos, wehate him.
Yeah, their their idea to killa dragon, like that dragon's a
liability, like yes, what I'mlike like are you not worried
(32:35):
about getting in trouble?
Like nothing.
I don't know if that one to me.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
His whole arc has me just like this guy's not real,
yeah it's, as opposed, likewhat's the opposite of mvp, mup,
very unimportant person likemost hated person, mhp.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
He's my even more than dane.
He's just because he's so evil.
He's just dumb and evil.
Speaker 2 (32:57):
I don't know so dane was giving me some real lawful
good vibes.
Um, yes, so again and I'm sorryfor those who are watching or
listening who?
Speaker 1 (33:07):
aren't where you're going people, but he gives me
such a gallant yes, he does, hedoes it's so bad, but it's so
feel like well, but I can't dothat because it'd be breaking
the rule right, right, I love,love that whenever he kissed her
like they kiss, and then thenext day or whatever, he's like
we actually can't be togetherbecause of the rules and she's
(33:30):
like, okay, oh no, oh, shucks,what a disappointment broken
well, yeah, and she just gotfurther icked out like okay.
So even if I was into this,you'd say no because of the
rules.
Like that's kind of annoying.
Obviously I don't mean thatmuch to you if the rules mean
more, basically, um, so yeah, Ihate dane, hate dane, although I
(33:56):
did predict at the very, verybeginning.
When he met rianne riannon forthe first time, I was like oh,
they're gonna get togetherbecause they were like sparring
too, but I think she I don'tshe's either bi or a lesbian, so
I'm not sure that she would beinto him.
She does say that he's hot, sothere's still a chance if he
just like gets his the stick outof his behind and um.
But I don't know if that'llever happen.
Speaker 2 (34:17):
So that's interesting .
Yeah, I think that.
Yeah, I could totally see thatthe rihanna and dane pairing
yeah, yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Okay.
So there was one question thatI had towards the beginning, but
it was resolved.
Um, she actually answered.
It was so violet right as maincharacter.
She has this affliction of somekind, um like, not necessarily
described very well, but it's.
Speaker 2 (34:47):
She just breaks easily yeah, so I honestly was
like does she have eller danlossyndrome?
So I'm not a clinician nor doplay one on TV, but I know a
couple of people who haveEhlers-Danlos and the prone to
injury and even like her jointsdon't stay where they're
(35:08):
supposed to, kind of thing.
There are a couple ofreferences in the book that
really kind of make me think of.
Ehlers-danlos is a um, aconnective tissue disease, um's
genetic um and I was like isthat what she's got?
and also on top of that, I'mlike is she actually weak or is
she just not super buff like hersiblings?
Speaker 1 (35:32):
okay, so are you ready for an external knowledge
bomb drop that doesn't haveanything to do with the story?
Sure, okay, so uh, apparently,and I remember this from tiktok,
so uh, but I googled it just toconfirm rebecca yaros has,
eller danlos did I get thatright?
I think you got that right.
(35:53):
I think I think violence isself-insert um based on that
information.
So, yeah, I think whatever thataffliction is, it's meant to be
you know, whether it'sofficially that or just like
supposed to be the fantasyversion of that.
Speaker 2 (36:09):
I think she's got it, so yeah yeah, because I'm like
if you fell on a parapet likeyou would have bruises, you
would have damages, you couldsprain a joint, like you could
do all of those things.
but there was one section inparticular where she was talking
about how she has to wrap herknee.
Um, mr jessica has a familymember who has eller danlos
(36:33):
confirmed diagnosis and uh, itwas a running joke, not so about
how her patella often was notwhere it was supposed to be,
because your patella floats incartilage and so if you have a
cartilage disease, it's aproblem.
Yeah, so, yeah, there's just.
I was like it's really thewrapping of the joints and all
(36:55):
of that just gave me that vibe.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Okay, well, I think you hit the nail right on the
head with that one.
I'm not going to lie.
Before I put two and twotogether, I was like we get it,
you're weak.
Oh my God, you're weak.
But then when I realized, oh no, this is more than that, chill
out.
She's really dealing withsomething other than just the
fact that she didn't hit the gymit made a lot more sense to me
(37:21):
but, yeah, made less sense thather mom put her through dragon
school yeah, that condition.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
I want to believe that there is something else
happening like even if it's notas benevolent as what I painted-
um I would like to believe thatthere is some other reason why
her mother has driven, you know,has drawn such a strict line
and, yes, you will go, andthere's no way around it.
Yeah, I can't, as a mother, Ican't countenance any reason why
(37:51):
you would send your child in sounprepared.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
Yeah, yeah, I agree, I mean she did mention.
I want to say that she was likesmart enough or something, I
don't know she said some kind ofa compliment.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
Yeah, she passed the proficiency test.
She's more than intelligentenough.
Um, that was never in question.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
Like still as an adult looking out for your child
no way you know what they'recapable of you, one would hope,
right that you know what whatthey are are not capable of, and
you wouldn't send them in sophysically unprepared yeah, yeah
, I tend to agree, unless, Iguess, and the alternative like,
(38:31):
unlike dane, who didn't believeshe could do anything, maybe
her mom just really believed shecould do it, I don't know.
I mean, it does seem prettybrutal out there, but it does.
Maybe she just thought.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
The casual killing is a little alarming.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah, that's part of the reason that I think this
particular country is the badcountry.
Like what?
Why are we encouraging any ofthis?
Speaker 2 (39:00):
I don't know, it's pretty pretty wild college
students killing each other.
Speaker 1 (39:03):
It doesn't feel yeah, like anything that anybody
would encourage.
Um, yeah, yeah, there's certainthings about this story that,
to me, are just like.
This isn't real.
I just like I know it's afantasy book, but what kind of
culture are we talking about?
Speaker 2 (39:20):
What kind of setting have we created where this is so
normalized that it'scommonplace?
Speaker 1 (39:26):
Exactly, exactly, right, yeah, so I know we talked
about doing the top five typesituation and I know we might
want like talk about eachsituation that we we get into a
little bit, so I feel likestarting it, you know, before
the end of the time might makesense.
(39:47):
So how do you feel aboutdigging into that unless?
Speaker 2 (39:49):
you have something else, let's do it.
Um, and the problem is Ialready gave you one of mine.
(40:13):
I want to hear it.
15% of candidates don't make itpast the parapet and I'm still
standing, so I guess I'm beatingthose odds already and I was
like hell, yeah, girl, yes youare.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
So I think, relatedly , I really enjoyed the parapet,
like the actual scene.
It felt suspenseful and, as yousaid, like she started reciting
(40:43):
facts to like get her mindright and it did feel like
telling, not showing us somefacts, but it was.
It was good and believable inthe sense that like, yeah,
talking, like saying things overand over again, it's like a
meditation type practice, sothat could work.
Um, I also like, as part ofthat, I enjoyed that she like
gave her boot to her friend.
All of that stuff was kind ofall I thought that was brilliant
.
Yeah, all wrapped together injust a nice intro to the
(41:05):
character, because it was thestupid evil guy chasing after
her and then she stopped himwith her dagger.
It was a fun introduction I'llput it that way.
So that's on my list, and theseare in no particular order, by
the way way, and I also haven'tprepared my list in advance, but
I did just, I did just readthem, so I should be able to
pull them, uh, from my recentmemory um.
Speaker 2 (41:30):
Do you want to give one?
Speaker 1 (41:32):
yeah, sure, okay.
So another one that I enjoyedwas the um, was the uh, zayden's
little club.
The night that violet was outforaging poisons and she finds
out that zayden can controlshadows and they have their
first really tense, you know,like cats kind of feeling each
(41:55):
other out in an alley situation.
Um, you know, sexual tensionoff the charts.
Um, the fact that he's notkilling her right away, all of
it is just, and she's like hotand bothered by him but still
mad at him and they're sparringback and forth and like, and the
fact that she realizes like sheis more chaotic, good, I think.
(42:15):
And she's like this istechnically illegal but like
you're not actually doinganything wrong, so I'm not gonna
rat you out and dane can't knowbecause he's a little snitch,
and yeah, it just felt like itgave me a better idea of who she
was as a person, at the sametime of like a fun scene with
like little romantic type banter.
(42:37):
So I like that scene a lot Ilike that too.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Um, another one that I liked is a different one,
which is where zayden wasphysically sparring with her and
actually giving her pointers,um and and, not for the foreplay
aspect of it.
So much as I think it's goodwhen those characters push each
other and I do think that theauthor did a good job writing
(43:04):
their interactions I found itvery enjoyable and I thought
that it was believable that thecharacter is growing, she's
expecting one thing, she'sencountering another and, to
your point, seeing her have toreassess the situation and
reassess this person on the flyassess this person on the fly.
Speaker 1 (43:27):
Yeah, I mean, that would definitely also be in my
top five and um, I actuallywrote down something that she
said and I can't rememberexactly what it was, the where
it came from.
It was like maybe you knowwhatever he was telling her like
you, you could use the knifelike it's a good fit at this
angle.
And she's like I couldn't helpbut think about what else would
be a good fit at this angle whenhe's like straddling her.
Sorry, some of her innermonologue is like cringy to me,
(43:49):
but that was funny, like in agood way it made me laugh, like
relate to her.
Um.
So not only was it a fun scene,that is was like tailor made
for the screen, like I couldliterally see it in my mind's
eye.
He's like pulling daggers outfrom her and like throwing them
off into the corners and daneslike gathering them up, looking
all mad um but yeah, I thinkthat's something I would say for
(44:10):
this author is that she does doa good job of painting a visual
picture.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Um, I'm not very good at visualizing.
So I think that I think that itspeaks to her ability to be
able to really kind of set ascene and paint a picture.
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Yeah, yeah, I think you're right.
I think you're right.
Okay, you go.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
My next one has to be Dragons man.
I loved the initial interactionbetween Violet and Tarn.
Tarn sounds like a grumpy oldgrandfather in my head.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
On the audiobook too.
Speaker 2 (44:47):
And Darna is just a cute little marshmallow and I
just loved the interactions.
I couldn't get enough yeah.
Speaker 1 (45:04):
I picture and Darna as like toothless from how to
train your dragon, because theway she describes it, but gold
and like a little fluffytoothless but gold and fluffy.
Because literally at one pointshe said she looked at me and
her with her head at an almostimpossible angle and you know
how toothless goes, like fullsideways, like that's what I
picture.
Yeah, like immediately.
And she said you know her round, more rounded eyes and like
(45:24):
full sideways, like that's whatI picture.
Yeah, like immediately.
And she said you know her round, more rounded eyes and like a
bunch of it's, just like it wasjust toothless, fluffy, golden,
toothless.
In my mind I wonder if there'sfan art out there.
That's like that is there?
probably is not that we cangoogle it yet, but maybe later
yeah, yeah, I definitely don'twant to google it, since we find
out that feather tails are justbabies, apparently, and who
(45:45):
knows what she's going to turnout to be in her full glory.
I'm trying to think of what mynext one would be, and part of
me thinks it's I think it had.
Well, one of them for surewould be the moment that she was
assaulted in her room and timestopped and zayden just like
(46:07):
fully obliterated her assailants, like all of that was just like
a whole, like okay, it'sfinally happening.
Like they said, everyone's gonnabe trying to kill you at all
times.
And then she got the bestdragon and they're like now
everyone's really gonna betrying to kill you.
And even though technicallyit's a rule that you're not
supposed to kill people in theirsleep, like these people are
freaking lawless like this is abrutal place and so yeah I was
(46:29):
surprised that they hadn't triedto kill in her sleep earlier.
Um, but yeah, that whole scenewas just like really like, oh,
edge of your seat, exciting andand you know, of course he's
written this way but zaydenbeing like such a bad boy and
just like killing them withoutany regard, I was like, okay,
zayden, look at you, you know.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
Well, I mean, like most, like a lot of women my age
, I do have a weakness for badboys.
So I am curious to see, youknow, when we get to hear more
of Zayden's backstory, about howhe got here.
I'm sure we will.
Um, one of my other favoritemoments, honestly, is just a
quote from early in the book um,it's while they're going up to
(47:11):
the parapet.
It's riannon.
My kindle keeps falling asleep.
Hold on, that's okay.
Um, I can't effing wait,riannon smile widens.
I mean, who wouldn't want toride a dragon?
Speaker 1 (47:27):
and it was such a relatable moment in chapter
three or whatever, and I waslike yes, yeah, yes.
Only since I was seven yearsold have I wanted to ride a
dragon so yeah, yeah her, likethere I looped that into my
first favorite, the parapetmoment or or whatever, but yeah
her and Rhiannon generally arejust a lovely duo.
(47:47):
I'm glad that they're friends.
Speaker 2 (47:49):
And the duality right Like made friends with Rhiannon
, made enemies with Jack Barlowand then, there was a victim, so
is that fridging the poor boythat got?
Speaker 1 (47:59):
killed.
I don't think he motivated them.
I think he was a plot device ofjust like, don't get
comfortable yeah, and that wasit.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
Really, is this dangerous?
Speaker 1 (48:10):
yeah, right, like you might think plot armor and of
course we do think some peoplehave plot armor but like, what
was his name?
Was it trevor, the guy who'slike we can marry earlier if we
get out of dragon school andthen he falls off the parapet?
Speaker 2 (48:24):
that's the kid that I'm talking about he had a ring
on a necklace and he was like inthree years yeah I'm marrying
that girl yeah.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
So I think that was literally because you hear these
people getting to know eachother, like, okay, they're
sharing boots, they're talkingabout getting married, whatever,
so it feels like a little trioof friends forming and then one
of them just dies.
So it does feel like the rug islike ripped out from under.
You don't get comfortable.
That's what I think.
That was not fridging becausewe didn't, you know it wasn't
(48:53):
motivational, yeah and theydidn't know him from bob, but um
, it was.
It was just a little jarring.
Not as jarring, though, as whenstupid jack barlow just threw
someone off the parapet BecauseI can't believe that's allowed.
Yeah, that's crazy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I think I've only done fourand I'm trying to decide,
(49:16):
because I've got a moment in mymind and I think I'm going to
you know what You're right thatthe like, the interactions with
the dragon, and like Taryn, andlike holding her on him is
hilarious, but I want to sayjust for like, once again making
me appreciate the character ofViolet more whenever she stood
up for the feather tail againstlike three guys, even though
she's you know has zero chance.
(49:39):
She has zero chance of beatingthem.
That was admirable.
And a chance of beating them,that was admirable.
And and the fact that, like sheknew what they were doing and
that they could easily hurt herand she like risked herself to
go find the dragon and warn it,like that was a good moment for
me and tierney commented on it.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
I don't think I highlighted it, but he made a
comment about you know, there'smore than one way to be strong
right, right, so that was a goodmoment for me.
Speaker 1 (50:03):
I liked it.
Yeah, I think that makes five.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
I think yeah, I don't have anything else.
Um uh, obviously, like you said, um andarna, freezing
everything in time was a hellacool way to um handle the
situation and made for a greatmid-book, um climax yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
With 19 chapters in, we picked a perfect way we did
to end honestly, honestly, um.
So I guess, like before we getinto our mvp, which we do all
the time in every episode, Ithink or maybe, maybe not our
earliest episodes I'm trying toremember, like when we started
doing MVPs.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Second or third?
Yeah, I mean definitely in thefirst season, but I don't know
if the first couple had it ornot.
Speaker 1 (50:55):
Yeah, yeah, we started doing it, but I guess
what would you, jessica, say tothe naysayers?
Because I know, when weannounced that this is the book
that we were reading, we are ina community that has a lot of
high fantasy fans, and so someof them were like what you know,
(51:15):
some of them were skeptical.
So what would you say to theskeptics?
Speaker 2 (51:22):
I would say that every story is different and
come to it with an open mind.
You know what I mean.
Like yeah.
I want to see how the storygoes.
This has the potential to be areally fun story all the way
through.
Do I think it's going toreplace my top five reads?
probably not, but that doesn'tmean it isn't a good story to
(51:42):
tell or a good story to read.
So you know you can set asidethe baggage that you're bringing
with you.
If you're going to hold it to adifferent standard, then you're
probably not going to be happywith it.
But the same could be true ofany story.
Speaker 1 (51:57):
Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to put it.
I think what I would say is, inthe same way that I love shows
right like succession, andbreaking bad and mad men, the
prestige shows, the deep shows,the shows that everyone agrees
are incredible and, you know,worthwhile, I also personally
(52:21):
love and will absolutely inhalethe Secret Lives of Mormon Wives
right.
And this book and when that cameout, I was watching it like
every five, like every time Iwould get a minute, I would turn
it on my phone, right, I wasobsessed.
That's what this is for me.
Fourth Wing right now is mySecret Lives of Mormonormon
(52:44):
wives.
It is, you know, not the mostsubstantial thing that I've ever
read um, but I am having a goodtime reading it, and not
everything has to belife-changing exactly.
It's just fun, and so, if youcan kind of like, pause the I
need to be reading somethingthat's critically acclaimed,
(53:05):
pause that part of your brainand you just want to read
something for funsies.
This is.
This is a book that you candefinitely read for funsies.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
I think it's somewhere between the guilty,
guilty pleasure and the beachread.
Like you said, like I, I alwayswhen I pick my kindle up.
I'm excited to come back to itum I don't often feel out of the
story or out of kilts, like outof sync with it, um, and I
(53:33):
think there's a lot to be saidfor that, and I I feel like that
makes it sound like I'm tryingto tamp down a bad review.
I don't have a bad review ofthis story so far.
I'm really into it and I can'twait to read the second half.
Speaker 1 (53:46):
Yeah, I wouldn't call , and I know that I was a little
snarky about a couple of thelines that I read and that I'll
own that because I was.
But overall, again, I had a tonof fun reading it and I would
recommend it to anyone who Ithink has the capability of
(54:07):
chilling out for a little bitand just reading something you
know, eating mcdonald's insteadof your fancy if you're looking
for herodotus or plato orsocrates is this a story for you
probably not no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (54:20):
Probably I understand like honestly, most of the
stuff I read probably not foryou, right, right.
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Yeah, so that's where I'm at.
So if you're on the fence andyou're watching this just to see
, and obviously if you haven't-read it yet and you're watching
this spoilers, spoilers, sosorry, sorry about that.
But hey, we've only read thefirst half and you can get
through the first half fast,because I did, yeah, and the
second half is all a mystery andapparently contains all the
(54:47):
spice in the book, assumingthere is spice.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Allegedly, we were told there was spice.
Speaker 1 (54:55):
I actually wasn't told.
I'm only assuming, based on thefanaticism surrounding the book
.
Speaker 2 (55:01):
I feel like I was told.
Speaker 1 (55:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
I feel like I was told.
Speaker 1 (55:06):
I feel like I saw it in a romanticanticy list
somewhere, and you know whatsure I could be totally wrong.
This, this is.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
This is just proof that we came into this with no
foreknowledge, with as littleexpectation as possible, which?
Is really the way we like to dothese things yeah, it's true,
it's true.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
So, overall, enjoying it.
Is it tolkien?
No, but this is a wholedifferent ball game.
It's a whole different era ofour lives, okay and I didn't
need it to be.
Speaker 2 (55:32):
I didn't need it to be tolkien so exactly, exactly,
okay.
Speaker 1 (55:39):
Well, are we going to pick an MVP for this episode?
I feel like we should.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
Okay, I'm kind of on the fence.
I have two names in mind.
Speaker 1 (55:55):
Yeah, I've got, I think I have my pick and I have
a runner-up.
I think that's what I'm goingto go with.
So what about we?
Since we're doing this inhalves my pick and I have a
runner up, I think that's whatI'm gonna go with.
So what about we?
Like, since we're doing this inhalves, like, why don't we
assign one point to an mvp and ahalf point to the runner up for
(56:16):
the ultimate and book mvpresolution?
Speaker 2 (56:20):
okay, yeah I can live with that okay do you want to
go first?
Do you want me to go first?
Speaker 1 (56:26):
I'll go first.
Okay, I'll give you myrunner-up first.
How's that sound?
Sounds good.
Okay, my runner-up is I don'tknow her name violet's sister.
Thank you, mira.
My runner-up is mira, becausewithout that book that she gave
(56:47):
Violet, without her help ofViolet, before the parapet,
getting rid of the pack,repacking the pack, giving her
the boots, giving her the vest.
Speaker 2 (56:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:57):
She would have died a thousand times.
Speaker 2 (57:00):
The book would not have happened.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
The book would not have happened without book,
would not have happened withoutmira.
So mira is my runner-up.
Speaker 2 (57:09):
Okay, you go, you can do your runner-up well, now I
feel bad, because that was areally, really smart runner-up.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
No, dude, you follow your heart, man.
Speaker 2 (57:18):
We all have different things that we value I honestly
want to pick zayden as arunner-up, because I think that
he really is clocking everythingthat's happening and, in his
own way, has been keeping an eyeon her for a while.
I feel like at some pointanother harebrained prophecy, uh
(57:39):
prediction we're gonna find out.
I feel like we're gonna findout later that he's been
watching her um benevolently formuch longer than violet
realizes, like all of thesetimes, that she's like he could
have killed me.
Why hasn't he killed me?
That's because he hasn't beenas mad at her as she thought he
(58:00):
was the whole time, if thatmakes any sense at all no, I
think, I think it does.
Speaker 1 (58:05):
I think it definitely does.
Um, I think so.
Adding to the like brotherisn't dead theory, they also
dropped just this very casualfact that I want to say was it
zayden's dad had a sister orzayden had a sister either way?
There's like, there's a,there's a random person that
he's related to.
That's out in the wild.
Speaker 2 (58:27):
And.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
I'm just really intrigued by how that person
might be involved.
Are they going to be in lovewith Violet's brother.
That feels like it would bekind of an age gap that might be
an issue, but we don't know.
We don't actually know how oldthis sister is.
Anyways, I could be stretching,but every time somebody just
(58:50):
like casually says something ina book, I'm like wait, why did
you say that?
Yeah, why do we want to knowthat this, the person that
violet's mom killed, had asister?
Why do we need to know that?
And it's just like this feelsso.
Romeo and juliet, by the way,like you killed my father, I
killed your brother like all.
Speaker 2 (59:11):
That's very much, you and catherine yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (59:15):
So it's, it's, uh, it's yeah, it's giving romeo and
juliet.
For me it's like in the sameway that the first book of
akatar, without any spoilers,felt like beauty and the beast,
like, yes, that was beauty andthe beast and this is roman
juliet, but we'll see, but atleast there's dragons and
there's dragons, which is great.
We love dragons.
Speaker 2 (59:36):
Okay, so I'm gonna have you do your mvp okay, so my
mvp is gonna be rihanna,because I think that it's really
important when you are goingthrough um life or death boot
camp, that you have a bestie toget through it and that they all
of their interactions arereally positive, really
(59:58):
supportive and very um balanced.
You know what I mean, like shehelps rihanna and rnon helps her
.
They look out for each other.
Um and I just think that it's.
I think that it's hugelyimportant for somebody who is
the the commander's daughter andcould be very isolated.
I never, never, underestimatethe power of having a good
(01:00:20):
bestie.
Speaker 1 (01:00:21):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, um, now I feel badbecause, uh, neither of us will
have picked violet for anythingI thought about it, I really did
.
Speaker 2 (01:00:31):
I swear you know what .
How many times did we pickfrodo?
It's true, almost never, almostnever.
Um, I don't.
I don't think we picked bilbovery often either, so it just
tracks it tracks, it tracks.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
So my mvp was actually zayden, which I kind of
hate now as like a feminist youknow why am I giving him credit
, but but I do think that he hasmore to him and I feel like we
got that from the very beginningright.
He didn't kill her right away.
He said like, let's see, theparapet will kill you, I don't
have to worry about it.
And then you know, he made surethat none of the other rebels
(01:01:06):
like we're gonna hurt her hecalled dibs on her so that none
of them would hurt her and hegave her the tip that got her up
the obstacle course, which, bythe way, was another thing that
made me laugh, because it'sliterally american ninja warrior
.
It's literally american ninjawarrior.
The last thing, the ramp.
That's the final stage ofamerican ninja warrior.
It's literally american ninjawarrior.
The last thing, the ramp.
That's the final stage ofamerican ninja warrior.
(01:01:30):
Also, love it, love it, anyways.
I'm just picturing them runningamerican ninja warrior, but, um
, so, anyways, he gave her thehint that helped her with that.
He gave her that sparringadvice.
Like he didn't tell about herpoisoning.
There were so many things thathe could have ruined her, yeah,
and he just didn't.
And then he killed all thepeople who were attacking her.
(01:01:51):
So, like mira, he's part of thereason the violets alive.
Speaker 2 (01:01:58):
So yeah, I really appreciate that he's been
putting on a show for a verylong time.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I, I really liked him.
Plus, I just have a thing forbad boys.
What can I say?
So, yeah, that's where we're at.
Mvp.
For me, awesome Feels good.
Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
So I think that that's a wrap on.
Season five, episode one, soour next episode.
We will finish the book, so wewill read the second half of the
book.
Looking at my cheat sheet.
Just kidding, that's not mycheat sheet.
I'll look at my cheat sheet.
(01:02:36):
So this episode is supposed toair June 17th and, as long as
life goes the way that it'ssupposed to, the second episode,
which will be the rest of thebook, should drop july 1st.
that is our current plan so forany of you who are reading along
or want to know what when tolook out, that's when you should
(01:02:58):
look.
July 1st is when you should seethe rest of our discussion on
fourth wing.
Speaker 1 (01:03:06):
And I think in that episode we will reveal whether
we want to continue the series.
I think I don't want to makethat call now, since we're only
halfway through the book.
I think.
I'll be comfortable making thatcall once we finish the book
right now.
I definitely want to finish thebook and we'll see if that
instinct rolls over into wantingto finish the series same, cool
(01:03:30):
, totally okay, so we're onboard.
Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
So with that, we will say thank you so much for
joining us for our first regularseason episode of season five
of but are there dragons?
Brought to you by your hosts,jessica Sedai and CritterXD.
Please don't forget to followus at but Are there Dragons?
On YouTube, instagram andTikTok and but Dragons Pod?
Just one T on X.
(01:03:55):
You can also find your hosts onsocial media as CritterXD and
Social Indultants.
That's it for us today.
We commend chapters 1 through19 of Fourth Wing to Malik Bye
Bye.
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