Season 5 Episode 3: Our Verdict on Fourth Wing: Chapters 20 through 39

Join Jess and Kritter once again, this time for the second half of Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yarros, chapters 20 through 39. How did we do with those first half predictions? Did the book keep its iron grip on us? Who won MVP? Where do we go from here? Listen and find out!

Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.

Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to, but Are there Dragons, a
podcast where two friends pick abook at least one of them
hasn't read and talk about it?
I'm your host, Jess.

Speaker 2 (00:11):
And I'm your host, Critter.

Speaker 1 (00:13):
And we are back to discuss the second half of
Fourth Wing by Rebecca Yaros,chapters 20 through 39.
Hi Critter.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Hi Jessica, how are you doing?

Speaker 1 (00:27):
through 39.
Hi Critter, Hi Jessica, how areyou doing?
I'm doing good.
I was glad that we got a chanceto dig in and finish this book,
and I'm ready to talk about it.

Speaker 2 (00:32):
I'm ready to talk about it too.
I don't know about how you'redoing this, but because whenever
we did Lord of the Rings in ourprevious seasons, I wrote an
extensive outline questions.
I wanted to ask you because Iwas taking, you know, I wrote an
extensive outline questions.
I wanted to ask you because Iwas the veteran right and I read
it before and I wanted toreally dig into the details.
And since I'm not doing thatthis time and because I'm a

(00:53):
first time reader, I literallyam just listening to the
sections just like straightthrough, no stops.
I might take occasional notesand then I have just listened to
it again.
So I've technically read FourthWing twice now in the last
month because I've listened toboth sections twice.

Speaker 1 (01:09):
I'm not surprised, because I just like forget
Literally.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Reading it the second time, I was like oh yeah, oh
yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:15):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:15):
And I had.
I literally read it a week ago.
So that's kind of embarrassing.
But how are you doing this?
What's your?

Speaker 1 (01:21):
process.
I'm doing something similar.
I also did some rereading alongthe way.
I am not taking copious notesbecause I'm not the vet in this
and I was honestly for all ofour podcast family.
She's not exaggerating.
The notes that she took in ourdrive are extensive and

(01:41):
intimidating and that's just nothow we're doing fourth wing.
This time we get the benefityou know the joy of both coming
to it as first timers.
So I am going through and I amjust reading it at nighttime,
now that we're back from ourtrips, and highlighting as I go.
And the only thing that I'mdoing differently is I did find

(02:01):
a website that has some chaptersummaries and so I've been
pulling those as my refresher.
So I've done a little bit ofreread and a little bit of
refresher with the chaptersummaries, as I just pull like
my top five moments and oh yeah,I really liked that and oh,
that was kind of.
So we're kind of doing similarrefreshes, just using different

(02:24):
techniques.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
Okay, I'm so glad that you reminded me that we do
a top five moments thing.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
It'll be fine.
If only I'd done it before wehit play.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Good thing.
I read it twice, so I should beable to and honestly, I did
take little baby notes in mynotes app so I'll be able to be
like there are some things thatI was like I liked this.
I'll use those as my top things.
It'll be perfect.
So let's dig into this book,shall we?
Yes, all right, so let's, let'slet's overall impressions now

(02:57):
that the book is done.
Okay, generally speaking, howdo you feel?

Speaker 1 (03:03):
okay, generally speaking, I feel like this is a
real middle of the road read forme, and I don't want that to
sound overly critical.
There are some things that Ireally liked about the story and
kept me coming back for, moreobviously because we devoured it
, each of us in our own waysyeah um, and and there were

(03:26):
definitely some payoffs that wegot to go with that.
I'm sure we're going to talkabout that a little bit more in
detail, because I'm thinking ofsome of our predictions and how
some of those things played out.
Oh yeah, me too.
Um, there are things about thestyle of writing that are not my
fave that uh do kind of take meout of the moment, uh, here and
there, and we touched on them alittle bit last episode, and

(03:48):
that was still true for me forthe back half of the book, do
you?

Speaker 2 (03:51):
have like an example, not to put you on the spot or
anything, but like what do you?
You know what do you mean?

Speaker 1 (03:55):
um, usually it's when the.
It's usually when violet ishaving racy thoughts and it
distracts her from whatever elseis going on and I find the way
that rebecca yaros is writingthat to be distracting in and of
itself, and I'm I think wetalked about last time how I

(04:17):
kind of viewed it, as it was ajuvenile inner monologue.
It was just kind of a youngervoice, yeah yeah, and there are
times where that's okay and itkind of rolls, and there are
just other times where it, youknow, kind of pulls me out of
the moment.
I feel like, even with Tolkien,that when we first started
reading I was having troubledealing with the narrator

(04:38):
inserting himself, and so thisis just a little bit different
version of that.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah.
Okay, I actually have a quotehere in my notes and pardon the
explicit nature of this upcomingquote, but it is from the inner
monologue of Violet, so Iassume this is part of what
you're talking about.
But in quotes she said holyfucking hot hot.

Speaker 1 (05:10):
Yes, that is one I'm like.

Speaker 2 (05:10):
I'm looking to see if I have any highlighted um, I
have to go back, but yes, I'vegot more.
There's another um.
What I assume is what's theword for it?
Double entendre, I'm not.
I'm not sure, but anyways it's.
Um, whenever zayden takes hisshirt off and they're sparring
in the gym and she says he hasthe largest signet she's ever
seen, and that just made meimmediately head in the gutter,
which was amazing.
And then, and then, during herinner monologue, she says and

(05:33):
that sculpted ass.
And I don't know if it's likehow the audiobook narrator is
narrating it, but I feel likethere's really no good like
compelling way to say and thatsculpted ass oh, you know what
that brings?

Speaker 1 (05:49):
a whole nother level to it.
So I am the narrator, right?
Maybe that's why I have such anissue with it I I have a
similar issues okay, I I justhad a moment where I was like
I'm reading this and I thinkthat it takes me out because I'm
reading this, and I think thatit takes me out because I'm
reading this and, to a certainextent, it's always going to be
my voice uh-huh um, and maybethat's part of it, but yes,

(06:13):
things like that.
That's a perfect example of thekind of thing that takes me out.
She is, you know, lined up forbattle brief and she is thinking
about sex, which, you know.
She's an impetuous 20 year oldand sometimes those thoughts are
distracting, for sure.
However, they're coming acrosson the page, though.

(06:34):
They're just kind of taking meout just a little bit.

Speaker 2 (06:37):
No, I'm right there with you.
And this kind of brings us backto our conversation that we had
in the first episode, which Ithink we can revisit now, is how
we classified this book right.
I said YA because there hadn'tbeen a sex scene yet and it to
me read very juvenile.
I maintain that position.
If you took away the explicitscenes and some of the more

(07:01):
explicit dirty talk, a thousandpercent to me it is YA.
The main protagonist ischildish.
I mean, like she's giving highschool girl right Even if she's
supposed to be like 20.
Honestly, in my head she's 19.
I don't know.
Is she 20?

Speaker 1 (07:18):
I think she has a birthday.
I wasn't paying that close ofattention.
She's not a minor.

Speaker 2 (07:23):
Thank God.
But like, yeah, 19 or 20.
And she, she's just so laserfocused on like she's read
sometime.
It's like a dog in heat and tome that that reads high schooler
, but that's just where I'm at.
And again, like I have this.
I have this idea in my head isif, if I ever become an author
which we'll see I would love to.

(07:44):
It's actually been my dream mywhole life.
But have I written anythingrecently?
No, but anyways, my thing is,romanticism is such a huge genre
but I am a high fantasy girly.
Right, I'm not really aromanticist girly, but it could
be fun if you wanted to writeand then have the option for
people to like oh, but I'mromanticanticie.

(08:05):
You can make it Romanticie byhaving like an appendices.
So like the book is like bonus,content, bonus, content, bonus.
So you read the book and thenthere's like an asterisk or like
a footnote one.
If you would like an explicitscene, please proceed to
appendix 1.2.
You know what I mean like.
So think about, like I'm gonnawhole patent that if you use

(08:29):
that idea I think you should.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
I would love that, because sometimes I just don't
need it.

Speaker 2 (08:33):
But sometimes the racy stuff is fun and honestly
like depending on your mood gostraight to the race right, but
yeah, so I I'm not here to yuckanybody else's yeah, exactly so
I'm still at the ya, excepttheir explicit scene.
Like I wouldn't put it in a yasection in the bookstore, but
only because of the explicitscenes and I think for any adult

(08:55):
adult reading this is going toread in some ways juvenile.
Personally, where are you at?
Do you still think it's not ya?

Speaker 1 (09:03):
um.
So I think that I had shiedaway from the ya classification
because I think of it, I thinkof ya, as like a cut off at 18,
right, and I think that that wasan arbitrary thing that I
created in my head.
Those kinds of things happenall the time, um, but I was like
they're not in middle school orhigh school, so that was why I

(09:27):
was departing from the YAcriteria.
But I agree with you that thevoice of the writing overall is
very young and immature, feelshigh school, feels very high
school.
I actually had thisconversation with Mr Jessica the
other day and he was kind ofasking me what I think and I was
saying she's very young andhe's like, does that bother you?

(09:50):
And I said it just really shows.
And so I've had this experience.
Returning to Wheel of Time,I've had this experience reading
through Lord of the Rings.
As an adult reader, now in mylate 40s, I can't help but
notice how much my perspectiveimpacts what I'm reading about

(10:13):
the other character and how Ifeel about them and the age gap
that I have with the protagonistis very pronounced with violet
yeah, I feel the same I, you andI

Speaker 2 (10:25):
are not the same age is not as big as mine, it's
smaller, um, but it's still thesame.
You know, granted, I'm in likea whole different phase of life
phase of life than she is, but,um, yeah, so that's where.
That's where I'm at like neverin my life when I put it in the
ya section again, because I'mnot going to be like, yes, high
schoolers, go read this explicitcontent, right, but at the same
time, depending on yourparenting style or whatever,

(10:48):
like well, I could see highschool people enjoying this,
basically.

Speaker 1 (10:52):
So I think, to answer your question, I do think this
lives squarely in theromanticist category.
Yeah, and I didn't know thatdid it.
That's neither a plus or minus,but I think that from an
accuracy standpoint, I thinkthat's where I'd have to bin it
Like.
This is the category that itwould go in in the library.

(11:14):
Some of the explicit stuff ispretty explicit, and so that

(11:45):
would be the only like heads up.
If I were going to recommend itto a girlfriend, I'd still go
back to the things that wetalked voice of the book is a
little young for me and I thinkthat's really possibly a me
problem.

Speaker 2 (11:51):
Yeah, yeah, I mean again, I say all these things
that's like juvenile, whatever.
I once again had a lot of funreading it and I actually, in my
head, like last time, I likenedthis book to McDonald's and I
likened it to the Secret Livesof Mormon Wives.
This time I'm going to liken itto Twilight, and there are

(12:13):
multiple reasons for that.
One is just how I felt when Iwas reading it.
Right, which was notoverwhelmed with the quality of
the work, but entertained ashell, right, entertained
regardless.
Number two there is aparticular scene that I will
recite to you Not recite, Idon't have it like word for word

(12:33):
, but a scene in which they were, I believe, in Battle Brief and
Violet drops her pen and Zaydenlevitates it back up to her
with his shadow powers.
It reminded me so much of theApple scene in Twilight.
I think that was maybe only inthe movie, or maybe it was in
the book too.
Whatever, doesn't matter.
That moment solidified thesebooks for me as on the same

(12:55):
level as Twilight, which made somuch sense because of how
popular they are right.
I inhaled Twilight whenever Iwas in high school and college
and I went to the midnightpremieres of the movies.
I was in for Twilight, and so Iunderstand the fervor
surrounding this book becausethe vibes are the same.

(13:17):
So, yeah, that's my officialanalysis.
That's the closest I can getwhich.
We've got a love triangle.
We've got the whole nine.

Speaker 1 (13:25):
Yeah, no, twilight is exactly where I was at with it
too, and, honestly again, I'm alittle bit older than you, so
Twilight was like a guiltypleasure read, a thing that I
was reading that I didn't wantpeople to know I was reading
because I already felt like alittle too old to be reading
these books, right?

Speaker 2 (13:47):
And I read them anyways.
Whereas I believe I'm about thesame age as Robert Pattinson, I
actually don't know how old heis, but I'm pretty sure that's
true and there was a.
I had a poster of him andKristen Stewart on like above my
bed in college in my dorm room.

Speaker 1 (14:00):
Target demographic I was, I, I was older, I'm going,
I'm just going to smuggle thisbook in.
Actually, that's about the timeI started finding ebook readers
and so nobody could see whatwas on my Kindle and that was
really nice, perfect, that'sperfect, okay.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
So yeah, I feel like we've gotten that covered now.
We've got the tone Again.
It sounds like we've gottenthat covered now.
But I've got the tone again.
It sounds like we both had funreading it, even if we both
agree that it's not likemind-blowing prose.
Yeah, I think that's fair.
Okay, good, um, so I guess Inow I really want to just all of
a sudden brag okay are youready for this so?

(14:41):
in the book.
In the book, uh, in this, atone point she said his father
put an arrow in Brennan's chest,according to Battlefield
reports.
The moment she said that, themoment she said that, I was like
, oh, the only way you knew thatis because of Battlefield
reports.
That's interesting, so youdidn't see the whole.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
I highlighted that.
I highlighted it and when I sawit today when I was scrolling
through, I instantly thought ofyou.

Speaker 2 (15:15):
Yeah, yeah.
So, oh my gosh, I just lovebeing right everyone.
And if you'll recall, in ourlast episode featuring the first
half of this book, I just kindof predicted.
I knew somehow that Brennan wasstill alive, and obviously this
is a spoiler for the very, veryend of the book.
But by golly he is.
And remember when I was like Ibet he joined the rebellion.

Speaker 1 (15:33):
Heck yeah, by golly he did Right out of the park.
Critter hits it right out ofthe park.
The crowd goes wild.
I loved it.
I was so stoked for you.
So that last little bit, thatlast chapter, switches to
Zayden's voice, but as the endof chapter 38, she passes out

(15:54):
hearing a familiar voice.
I'm like this is it?
This is Critter's moment.
Here it comes.

Speaker 2 (16:00):
And they were like we have to get her to him and I
literally was like pause, who'shim?

Speaker 1 (16:07):
I actually went it better be.
I just said it better be orelse.

Speaker 2 (16:12):
And it was which is amazing.
Now we get to meet Brennan.
We got to meet Brennan ever sobriefly, for half a second, for

(16:39):
half a second.
So there were a couple of bonusscenes from Zayden's
perspective, one of which wasthe knife, the scene where
Violet's sparring partner gotsick early or whatever, and
Zayden volunteered to fight her.
Like we got that scene from hisperspective also.
Oh, and then there was one more, and I can't remember what it

(16:59):
was, which makes me embarrassedthat makes me sad.
Yeah, I can't remember whichscene it was, now which, because
I didn't reread that one, um, Iran out of time.
But yeah, so that exists.
It was interesting.
It's it's in the audiobook,narrator too changed for that,
so like they had a woman thewhole time, um, and then for the
final chapter that was fromzayn's perspective and those

(17:21):
other ones, it had a dude andthat guy's voice it just I don't
know why, but it kind ofbothered me because it was like
it kind of just reminded me oflike the guy that you would cast
as the villain in like a highschool football tv show where
he's like kind of a douche, youknow whatever.
So it was like arrogant, yeah,but like obviously Zayden's

(17:44):
supposed to kind of be arrogant,so I guess that works.
But I don't know, I don't knowhow I would have cast his voice,
but that one was just kind ofit was just like okay, and then
violet is just the hottest babeever, and I don't know.
It was just okay not my favorite, um, so if you have the

(18:05):
audiobooks and you listen tothose chapters, please let me
know if I'm alone or if youreally like that narrator and if
you did power to you.

Speaker 1 (18:11):
And tell me what the other scene is that I'm missing
out on?

Speaker 2 (18:15):
I think it might be threshing Now that I'm thinking
of it.
I think it might be threshingwhere Violet's taking on the
three guys, but I really wouldhave to look.
I truly can't remember.

Speaker 1 (18:25):
I'm pretty sure that when the book ended for me it
went straight toacknowledgements, but I'll go
back and look and see if there'ssomething in writing that I
missed.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
It might've been just an audio book thing.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
It might've been.
So, yeah, I was so pumped foryou, for Brennan, for that
prediction and that it was thebook cliff cliffhanger right,
like I thought that it was likea double slam dunk, whatever the
equivalent would be.
I don't sports, but it was soawesome.
Whatever I don't basketball, Ishould say I don't.

(18:57):
I don't know basketball, but itwas a two for one for you,
because it was not only a killerprediction from you know, a
thousand yards off but it wasalso the book cliffhanger, so
that was wonderful.
I felt vindicated in myprediction that Zayden had been

(19:18):
into her basically from thebeginning.
I felt very justified andvindicated in that, as you
should have.
And also that there was sketchystuff going on Like this does
not that I I'm not ananti-establishment person, but
it seems like everything isn'tas the Navarians are painting it

(19:40):
, and hoo boy is that very true?
So true, and I think I also wenton the record and said I think
that the book of fairy tales isgoing to be relevant and there
it was and there it was.
So I was like I love beingright almost as much as you do,
maybe even a little bit moremaybe we're tied.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
I'll allow it that we're tied.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah because yours was stellar, Like yours
was a primo pull.
I feel so good about it.

Speaker 2 (20:07):
Speaking of like not seeing a body and not believing
it, did you have the instinct ofwhen Jack Barlow died?
My instinct was no body.
I'm not 100% convinced.
Yeah, okay, yeah, okay,violet's like there's no way he
survived that.
And then we didn't hearanything else besides like what
was it her dragon be like?
Oh his dragon.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
Nobody can hear his voice anymore yeah, yeah, what
do you mean?

Speaker 2 (20:33):
what, what, what?
His dragon couldn't hear himanymore oh okay, I didn't
remember that line.
I was thinking now i'mguessingmyself, but it was some comment
to the.
Tern said something along thelines of his dragon will pick
another rider when he or she isready, and to me that implied

(20:54):
like okay, so Tern knows thatthe dragon is mourning, for sure
, right?
But I don't actually know that,right, you don't?
I mean, it seems like he's notlike how wild and like like so
you went up a cliff, didn't hehow so?
you.
Would it be if he shows up likein book three?
It would be.

(21:15):
I think he was, you know, theprimary villain, other than
obviously, like the the venin umfor this book, and seeing him
die was very satisfying.
Yeah, so, speaking of um, howdo you feel about violet's
signet power?

Speaker 1 (21:34):
I love it.
Uh, lightning power is superawesome.
Um, I do love the fact that shedid not immediately get the
skill of aiming.
Yeah yeah, that was refreshingthat she's not just like Mary
suing all over the place.
Yeah, she wasn't just crushingit right out the gate.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
No Right.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
I do think that when it came to the big fight with
the Venon, she was very OP, likeit felt as though she was, and
I I understand, and you willknow that my background with
wheel of time I'm like she'sgoing to burn herself out.
Whatever this world's equivalentis of burning herself out Like
she is flinging lightning leftand right.

(22:18):
So that was pretty intense.
Yeah, that part there, Um, yeah, but I loved the fact that it
was lightning.
I also liked the fact there wasa brief nod in there for a
second that she was a littleupset that you know, her power
it can only be used in war.
Like her power isn't good foranything other than warfare.

(22:43):
And it was just a little thing,but I thought that it was a good
nod to the nature of powers andhow they're really kind of
arbitrary in this world and younever know what you're going to
get, and that's a perspective.

Speaker 2 (22:56):
You know that she can't use it for anything other
than death and murder and andwar, like that's all she can use
it for I feel like we'll cometo find another way for her to
use it right, because that Venonsaid like you have the power to
, you know, control the skiesand all that, and I just I
refuse to believe that that ifyou define it that way, if it's

(23:19):
not just lightning but it'spower to control the skies,
there's going to be some kind ofmethod.
If her lightning powers thewards that would be cool, right,
like there's gonna be some way.
That because because not likeshe mentioned in the book that
it made sense to her whypeople's signets were people's

(23:40):
signets, right?
Not dave dane?

Speaker 1 (23:44):
dave dave.

Speaker 2 (23:46):
Let's call him dave from now on dragon rider dave
okay.
So dave um, you know he's, heneeds to know everything.
He's a little nosy pants andthat's why he has his power.
And zayden is like you know,he's a he's a mysterious person,
so he's a shadow wielder.
It's just like there were.
She said oh my gosh, everybodysignet makes so much sense now
that I think about it.
And then hers is this massivelydestructive thing and I I just

(24:09):
thought why?
Like, if that's true, shedoesn't strike me as a massively
destructive person.
So what's, what's theconnection?
And I feel like we're going tofind out what that connection is
.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
So she's like the first pokey revolution of
herself right now, and as shegrows into this power, she'll
have more control and she'll gosuper scion at some point.
That's why I'm saying like ifshe docks into the ward, the
ward, somehow they have thisward.
Yeah, like I don't know, maybeI think it could work.

Speaker 2 (24:40):
I think put the pieces together more than
destructive.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
That's that's so since you brought up dragon
rider, yeah, yeah.
Let's talk about takingsomebody's memories without
consent.

Speaker 2 (24:54):
Boo, wow, boo.
So on my recent reread, I wasliterally listening to it at two
times speed.
Today there's a scene that cameup where he put his hand on her
cheek.
That wasn't the scene where heread her memories.
It was actually the day afteror like sometime after.
Um, they kissed, and so I waslike okay, well, if he read her

(25:15):
memories there he would be sopissed off.
So clearly he didn't do itevery time he touched her.
Yeah, um, but still stillhorrible.
And and the way she was like,oh yeah, that's how he always
touches me.
Later I was like, really,that's a weird, like touching,
cupping somebody's face is kindof an intimate way to touch.
But then, upon reread, he haddone it before.

(25:36):
So okay, point taken.

Speaker 1 (25:38):
But yeah, what an asshole, holy yeah yeah, I
really don't have much use fordane yeah, sorry, I thought I
was expecting you to say Dave.
Him either.
I don't like either of them.

Speaker 2 (25:52):
Yeah, that guy can go to hell, Like straight to hell.
Also, speaking of names thewing leader who got executed.

Speaker 1 (26:02):
Amber.

Speaker 2 (26:03):
Amber, I don't.
I wasn't reading, and so theaudiobook narrator.
The way that she said Amber'sdragon's name was Clyde.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Oh, okay, clyde.
So I was like Clyde the dragon.
It's spelt C-L-A-I-D-H, soprobably.

Speaker 2 (26:24):
Clyde yeah.

Speaker 1 (26:25):
I've been saying Claude.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Oh, that's way cooler sounding.

Speaker 1 (26:29):
Claude-a-ring Claude, like I've been just Claude.
Oh, that's way cooler sounding.
Claude-a-ring Claude, Like I'vebeen just making it up.
And also some of these I don'teven try to pronounce in my head
, I just skip over them.

Speaker 2 (26:38):
Oh see, I have the benefit of the audiobook so I
don't have to worry about it.
But then when they say, clyde,let out a roar.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
A little taken out of it.
This is my dragon Humperdinck.
This is my dragon Frank.
Sorry, rupert, where are you?

Speaker 2 (26:57):
I'm a dragon, so that made me laugh.
I thought it was funny, okay.
So, oh, oh, okay.
Another scene that I thought of, speaking of people that we
hate her mom at the like several, several times we saw her mom,
at least a couple anyways.

(27:17):
One of the times she was hermom was like oh, you haven't
manifested your signet yet, orlike you have, um, huh, that's,
you know it.
So it reminded me of I liken italso to um the harry potter
book I think it's the fifth oneor the sixth one where
dumbledore's ignoring harry.
Um, I'm not going to spoilanything more than that, other
than that dumbledore's ignoringharry just like constantly.

(27:39):
But we find out later mild harrypotter spoilers that it was
because he thought that he wasputting harry in harm's way by
like paying attention to him,and so that made me wonder like
is her mom being this waybecause she's horrible, which I,
I'm I'm leaning towards, or isthere something else?
Is she trying to keep violetlike out of the limelight?

Speaker 1 (28:02):
so like what I was saying like she has a reason,
she knows something, yeah I hopeso, because I am less convinced
that the mom has a pastsomewhere coming.
So when I found out, um thatthe daggers that kill the venon

(28:23):
are just like the dagger thatmom has on her desk, mom is
almost irredeemable for me atthis point.
Like I read that and I saw redand again I think it might be.
I have a child who is actuallya little bit older than violet.
So, like, as a mom, I'm justlike I'm gonna need you to have

(28:47):
a reason for being this terribleof a human being.
I'm going to need you to havesomething going on that I don't
know about.

Speaker 2 (28:56):
Yeah, yeah, and I don't know how being a parent
changes over time.
Right, like right now, becauseI have like a nine month old
baby.
He is precious to me, you knowwhat I mean.
Like I love him more than lifeitself.
Precious to me, you know what Imean, like I love him more than
life itself, and so like,literally, I could not imagine
being cruel to him for a second,and so the fact that this is

(29:17):
happening is just like, uh, Ican't really.
It feels unreal.
It feels unreal.
So I understand that noteverybody has perfect parents,
um, far from it.
A lot of people have horribleparents, and so the more I read
this book, the more I'm thinkingplease, god, let there be a
reason that she's acting likethis, because otherwise, oh my
god, she's like like s, not s,to your f, to your parent.

Speaker 1 (29:42):
Yeah, not a fan.
Yeah, I have a really hard timewith it.
The only thing that I can tellyou is that I tell my now grown
child that he is like thephysical manifestation of my
heart, walking around outside ofmy body and I now have the
added discomfort of he couldmake his own choices and put
himself in harm's way you know,so that's.

(30:05):
The only difference is um, yourbaby dragon is still somewhat
containable, mine's out there,mine's out there, which I can't
imagine the stress.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
But yeah, same.

Speaker 1 (30:16):
That's exactly how I feel future, you will be
prepared and armed for that.
Today is not the day that youhave to know how to do that, but
yeah, no it's super hard and Iyeah when I I'm paraphrasing,
but when it ever says it's justlike the dagger on mom's desk
and I was like, nope, excuse me,I would march into this woman's

(30:37):
office.

Speaker 2 (30:39):
Literally Well.
Also, it seems clear to me atleast, unless they're pulling a
fast one on Violet that Miradoesn't know about it either.
Right, because if she knewabout it, she wouldn't have told
violet about the dragons thatshe thought she saw on the other
side of the wards.
Right, because she would knowwhat they are if she was in on
it I think.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
I think if she were in on it, she would know that
brennan is alive and thateverything would be really
different.
Um, so I don't think she's inon the rebellion piece.
I'm unclear if she knows thatvenon exists.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
I don't think so see, I would think not.
Because, as I said, like if sheknew that venon existed, then
she would probably know thatwyvern existed, because, like
they're an extension, yeah, thefact that she saw the dragons
across the wards, yeah, like shewould have said probably, like

(31:32):
she would have either kept itfrom violet, because everybody's
keeping that from violet, orshe would have said I've seen
wyvern.
Not, I think I saw dragons, Idon't know.
I think I think she's in thedark.
If I had to make a prediction,yeah, no, I would agree with
that.

Speaker 1 (31:46):
I just I I tried to kind of separate those in my
mind.
Like I feel as though, you know, I feel like if mira knew about
brennan, everything would bedifferent I don't think that her
reaction with her, her actionsand reactions with violet would
be the same.
I I honestly think there's noway she could know that

(32:07):
brennan's alive.
So I don't think the mom knowsthat brennan's alive.
That's what I'm, but I'm like,if you know that he's alive, oh,
I don't know.
I'm like I'm trying to think ofa past that's big enough that
would make what she has done tothis point okay, and I'm having
a really hard time encompassinganything in my brain that makes

(32:31):
it okay, because what I've seenso far has not been okay yeah, I
, I would like to think the momdoesn't know brennan's alive
because letting her whole familybelieve it like and knowing
it's not true because apparentlyit hit their her dad really
hard, hard to like.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, violet's mom's husband, um, yeah, I, just if
she knows there's no coming back.
That's just too wrong.
Too wrong, too bad.
You're officially the bad guynow.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
So this is going to have to be a Raffo, and I and I
know that.
But yeah, every this back halfof the book wasn't any better
than the first half in terms of,you know, general soaring gales
, moral outcome.
I guess I don't even know howto categorize it like.
Yeah, it'll take a lot for herto be redeemed.

Speaker 2 (33:29):
I completely agree, completely agree.
Okay, so let's put a pin inthat.
I have a note that I had tobring up.
We talked a little bit aboutthe writing style and I have to
bring this up because I want tosay I said something about this
last time, but I honestly can'tremember, so maybe I didn't know

(33:52):
.
I brought up the fact that whenviolet saw zayden for the first
time.
She went on and on about hisappearance and then crafting him
and they spent an entire yearon his mouth and I thought it
was funny that she used the wordmouth right, because it's so
odd, like it's, like it's not.
It doesn't give romance novelto me, the word mouth.
You think that they would usethe word lips, but they didn't.
Um, they kept doing, she keptdoing, kept doing it.
She used the word mouth insteadof lips in, I swear, like a

(34:15):
thousand places.
I want to say she used the wordlips one time because I noticed
it on my reread.
I was like, oh my God, she'sheard the word lips before,
literally.
I was laughing about this at uhtrivia the other night because
I was like explaining that I'mreading this book and that you
know I, I I'm enjoying it, butI've got some complaints about

(34:37):
the prose or whatever and I gavethat as an example, how she
uses mouth instead of lipsconstantly.
And my cousin was literallylike, so you're reading this
book and you're just picturing,like the way he did it.
Oh, God.
Sucked his lips in, kind of likeTurtle.
Have you seen the?

(34:58):
Oh my God?
What is the one with the?
Oh my gosh?
There's a movie where I can'tremember his name but he's
playing this turtle spy.
This is gonna be a real problemfor me.
I'm gonna have to look it up.
Sorry, um, I want to say hisname is danny or carrie.

(35:19):
What the heck turtle turtle?
And he goes turtle turtle.
Please help me.
No, nobody, turtle turtle.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
um, sorry you got me at a total disadvantage.
I don't know what this is themaster of disguise I have never
seen it it's the master ofdisguise.

Speaker 2 (35:40):
So, anyways, if you can picture, if you're not
watching this on youtube andyou're listening on on the
podcast, um, I have to, I haveto find it, I'm gonna and I'm
gonna put this this up onYouTube so you can see who I'm
talking about.
But it's what the heck is thisguy's name?
Dana Carvey?
Dana Carvey dresses up as aturtle, as the master of

(36:00):
disguise and anyway.
So he like sucks his lips in soyou can't see them.
And so, yes, my cousin issitting there like with his lips
sucked in, being like you'repict these, these intimate
scenes with these people, andthey don't have any actual lips.
Oh, my god that kept picking meout of it.
Sorry, that has been like thelongest way for me to say that.
That is one way I got suckedout of the book every single

(36:23):
time they used the word mouth,because they used it a lot yeah,
yeah, yeah, and there was, sowe definitely got to explicit
content we did yes um, yes, wedid.
You and I neither of us read aton of romance.
To see, have you read muchromance?

Speaker 1 (36:43):
I've read a couple here and there.
Okay, um, okay, um, I'm like Iam not a fuddy-duddy, right,
like I am not approved by nature.
Yeah, same, um.
I think that was theconversation, though, that I was
having with mr jessica.
He's like what really bothersyou, I'm like, because at times

(37:06):
I was like you know, theexplicit content is it's not
even the nature of what they'redescribing or that it's even,
that it's racy, it's just,sometimes I'm just like oh, I
probably didn't need all that.
um, yeah, and it makes me feelbad because I'm like, I know,
I'm like I'm really not a prudeat heart, I don't mind.

(37:29):
Um, and he's like so, what isit?
And I'm like I'm really not aprude at heart, I don't mind,
and he's like so, what is it?

Speaker 2 (37:35):
And I'm like I think it's because she's so young and
it's like thinking about my kidhaving those experiences you
know, not that he would, but youknow, like the age disconnect
is big enough.
Now that I'm like, this feelsinappropriate that's fair,
honestly, when she likethroughout the book before they

(37:57):
did anything together, um, shekept.
You know she's sexuallyfrustrated and violet's like I
miss sex and I'm like how oldyou're?
Like 19, you're like, or 20,how much sex have you had
girlfriend?
You know, in my head that'swhat I'm thinking, because it's
like you're a little baby sexhave you had girlfriend?
You know, in my head that'swhat I'm thinking, because it's
like you're a little baby, likehow are you so already?
Just like, oh, I missed thisthing that I realistically

(38:18):
probably haven't actually donethat much.
I don't know, it's um, I, yeah,it was.
Yeah, I think for me it wasless the explicit scenes,
because finally, oh my gosh, oh,I have to tell you this though,
okay, so I was listening tothis book on vacation and for
some silly reason, we decided todrive to Minnesota from

(38:41):
Missouri, and so it was two daysbroken up to like six and a
half hour drives apiece and um,and I'm listening.
I'm mainly riding in the backseat baby dragon, but mr critter
and I switch, and so he's inthe back seat entertaining the
baby dragon and I'm in the frontseat and I have the book on low
on on the speakers, becauseyou're not supposed to use
headphones when you're drivingpsa, it's not safe, so, anyway.

(39:05):
So I'm I'm listening and,wouldn't you know it, the first
sex scene comes on while I'mlistening to the damn book out
loud in the car.
And I will say that I blushed,not only because I was like well
, because mr critter knew whatkind of a book.
It wasn't like a mystery aboutwhat I was reading, um, but I

(39:28):
think it was just like.
It felt so like cringe in somemoments, like literally
lightning strikes because she'sorgasming.
There's some things that I likeI laughed out loud when that
happened because I thought itwas such a cheeseball thing to
happen.
Yeah, um, that, yeah, I feltlike I don't know.
I definitely was embarrassed,but I will say that their first

(39:49):
kiss, I blushed in like a ohlike this is.
This is a little I like this,you know.

Speaker 1 (39:57):
Yeah, I felt the same right, like I was glad to hear
to have those physical momentpayoffs.
I, I, I did like that part.
It's just I definitely havelived in a world where the sex
happens off screen, yeah, for along time yeah yeah, um, and
part of that is the fact that Iam drawn to more high fantasy,

(40:19):
something that would be, youknow, probably characterized as
high fantasy more often than not, um, and haven't done as much
romantic or romance reading, um,but I find it and I'm like I
promise I'm not how many timescan I say that without you know?
the lady does protest too much,I don't know Um it just seemed

(40:42):
like a lot and, like I said once, I once I talked to Mr Jessica
about it, he's like what do youthink it really is?
I said I really think it comesdown to the age difference and
it makes me uncomfortable.
Um, it's.
It's a little voyeuristic andit feels a little inappropriate.
Um, since, in my mind, I'vesquarely paired her off with,

(41:02):
like someone who was youngenough to be my child yeah,
that's fair.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
I think another thing about their relationship is
like I liked it better when theywere bantering back and forth
about things that weren'tconstantly physical, right like
and again, not I swear I'm notapproved but like after they I
don't know if it was after theykissed, but like after they had
sex for sure like everythingthey said to each other was like

(41:28):
just wait till I get you out ofyour pants, or like I'm gonna
punish you.
You know what I mean.
Like oh, I'll just like pullyour pants down.
Like everything they said wasdirty talk.
And to me that's like okay,like I understand wanting
somebody, but my God, in public,when you're talking.
Like it's like they weresexting each other out loud for

(41:49):
every conversation.
And so for me I was like thatfeels so unrealistic and I know
I'm reading a book about talkingdragons and magical powers and
it's not realistic.

Speaker 1 (42:02):
But you can make the relationships realistic and it
just didn't feel that way I feellike that's the crux of it,
though, right I, I there aredefinitely things about their
relationship and the physicalityof it paying off that were
great and I was glad that we had.
There are just times where itfelt like too much and it
strained my experience.

(42:24):
For the rest of the story, like, okay, great, you guys have
finally gotten.
You know you've gotten to thepoint where you've had sex and
it changes your dynamic.
Can you go back to having realconversations?

Speaker 2 (42:41):
Let's talk like real humans, and what's funny is like
I kept thinking gosh, doeszayden like literally only care
about her appearance, like, forexample, um, towards the end of
the book, a quote.
I can't even begin toarticulate what it is about the
strands her hair that pushes mestraight into need to fuck her
now.

Speaker 1 (42:55):
Territory like yep that's one of the ones that post
put me right here like he justhas to.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Like my dude.
She's been in a coma for threedays, she or whatever, or a week
, I don't even know.
She wakes up, takes a bath,comes out and that's the first
thing.
You're thinking like it's wild,it just feels too lusty, it
feels.
It feels like lusty.
That's a very good word for itjust it feels like a you know,
15 year old boy who justdiscovered certain parts like

(43:24):
that's, that's anyways, that'show it kind of felt.

Speaker 1 (43:27):
Both of them were just incredibly lusty, um and
maybe, that being said, I didfeel like they did a really good
job she.
What she did do well, though,is turning that into the
betrayal moment, right, so I didfeel like that.
That moment paid off yeah verywell yeah so when when I talk

(43:50):
about you know the range ofexperiences I had with the
writing, when she realized whatit was he was keeping from her,
that betrayal moment was verywell written, I feel like, and I
felt like all of those stakesthat had been, you know,
carefully laid for theirrelationship, for them finally

(44:12):
trusting each other and, youknow, being honest and being
open about having feelings abouteach other and how that turned
into the betrayal payoff, Ithought she did very well with
writing that yeah, I can see nowyou know what book two is going
to be, which is him earningback her trust.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
Essentially right, because it's like you, one would
have to think, one would haveto think that's going to be
what's happening.
Like we all, I assume, knowthat he's going to in some way
and it feels like she's alreadykind of giving him like some
grace when it comes to that.
And and I guess as an asreaders for me at least I'm like
literally get over yourself.

(44:51):
Like you know why he was doingwhat he was doing.
Like you have a friend who canread minds makes sense that he
did what he did.
So I'm over here just basicallytelling her to get over it.
You're so obsessed with thisguy.
He opened up to you, he broughtyou on this mission across the
border, he was clearly going toshare things with you and just
because it didn't work outexactly how he might have wanted

(45:13):
it, now you're just punishinghim forever, even though you
agree with his cause and thefact that all of those other
lives were in his hands.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
Yeah, you know the 107 mended marks on his body and
yeah, just so.

Speaker 2 (45:29):
She made me mad there .
She made me mad another waythat she made me mad, which is
not related to the betrayal, butit's during the final battle,
um, where I can't remember whowas it.
It was liam who killed one ofthe venin and the dragon died
and she saw it.
And then later, I think liamwas like kill the, kill the

(45:53):
riders, kill the venin, andshe's like I know, I'm like kill
the riders, kill the Venon.
And she's like I know I'mtotally going to kill the Venon,
absolutely.
It's like she didn't realizewhat was happening for so long
Kill the damn venon, channeltheir power in to create wyvern

(46:18):
and so like, logically, she'ssupposed to be the smart one.
Like, think about, like, how didyou not make that connection
earlier in the battle?
My, my dude, yeah, so anyways,that made me mad during the
battle.
Um, I was expecting her torealize it the moment that that
that the wyvern died after liamkilled the venon, and she didn't
, so I got a little annoyedabout that um, I mean since you

(46:42):
brought up liam yeah that.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
That was heartbreaking yeah so he's one
of the characters that Idefinitely liked that I felt
like the author did a great jobwriting and I was attached and I
was super sad to see him go.

Speaker 2 (46:56):
I should have known.
I feel like they have what isthe kill your darlings, like
they have that trope or whateverit's called, you know writing
tactic.
And she just made him tooperfect.
He was so likable, but I thinkwhat it was was during the war
games or whatever, the firstround of them, where violet
stopped time to save his life.

(47:17):
I thought, oh okay, he's safe,like they're not gonna do this
again.
And then they did it again withhim.
I was just, I don't know, I wasshe.
Uh, she did a really good jobtricking us into a false sense
of security.
When it comes to liam and thefact that she ripped that safety
net out from under us, I was alittle pissed.

(47:39):
Obviously I was sad more thanpissed, but I was.
I'm mad like that.
He's gone.

Speaker 1 (47:42):
He was really sweet yeah, and the and the death
scene was, you know, it was atearjerker for sure.
Yeah for sure but I'm gonnaimmediately pivot because I'm
looking at the time.

Speaker 2 (47:54):
Yeah, smart.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
I have a couple of moments that I loved that I
wanted to share.
I can't say top five anymorebecause I think I've already
shared two.
So the first one this is kindof weird the one where Taryn
kills Amber.
I actually really liked thatpart, not because I'm
bloodthirsty, but because itreminds us that these creatures

(48:23):
are truly dangerous, like wehave not seen a lot of people
who have been truly injured orkilled by dragons on the page,
so I was like, ooh, that's a,that's a good reminder that
they're lethal yeah, okay, yeah,I'm trying to think of, like,
what we haven't talked about yet.

Speaker 2 (48:45):
Uh, oh, okay.
So I don't.
This isn't one of my favoriteparts necessarily, actually.
No, it kind of is.
Um, because it was satisfying,but the whenever we found out
that Jack was allergic tooranges or whatever, when he's
like get that shit away from meimmediately.
I was like, oh, she's going topoison him.
Like there's our solution,great.

(49:06):
And then they end up fighting.
He finally gets to challengeher and they fight and then she
wins and whatever.
Like that was pretty great,although my one complaint is she
kept like, kept giving himlittle flesh wounds with her
knife.
I was expecting her to haveorange extract on the knife
blade and I don't know if thatwould cause an allergic reaction
in someone who's allergic tooranges.

(49:26):
But that's what I expected itto be, because she nicked him on
the arm and then she nicked himon the side and I was like, oh
my God, this is is brilliant.
She's gonna like get him withpoison by nicking him and then
that's not what it was.
She just ended up shoving it inanyways.
But the fact that it worked outand she almost killed him, that
was awesome.
I love.

Speaker 1 (49:45):
I love that because I hate that guy I like the fact
that she did get stronger withtraining, but she's still not
like this unbeatable, like yeahI do like that because we're all
living with the limitations ofour bodies and not everybody can
be unstoppable or unbreakablelike not everybody gets that

(50:06):
yeah so I was.
I'm glad that she's gottenstronger um and I've liked the
team building aspect of herwingmates helping her, but that
she's still not invincible.
One of my other moments that Ireally loved is I really did
love the saddle.

Speaker 2 (50:27):
That was sweet.

Speaker 1 (50:28):
I like the saddle as a gift.
I like the saddle as an idea.
As an idea I've honestly beenlike, because I'm used to
Dragonlance, which is an oldseries that I grew up reading.
That was actually one of myfirst fantasy book series that I
read.
I was like why don't we havedragon saddle?
Like why is this not a thing?

Speaker 2 (50:48):
So when he presented her with a saddle and that it
includes an attachment forandarna, very cute um I, I loved
that moment yeah, so we'vealready talked about this moment
briefly, but, um, for me it wastheir first kiss.
It was like funny that she likewakes up basically in heat and
like that was a little bit of acheeseball factor, but yeah, he

(51:11):
teaches her how to ground.
In that moment she's likereally excited because she's
actually exceptional at it.
And oh my gosh, that's theother one we got from his
perspective.
Now that I'm thinking of it, Ithink we got that from his
perspective because he, I wantto say he talks no, maybe not,
maybe he just mentions that.
But the fact that like at somepoint in the book we realized
that like when she was like sothrilled with herself that she

(51:32):
did so well, he like loved thatabout her, like her like really
triumphant smile and whatnot, um, so I felt like that was their
cutest moment slash.
Obviously it wasn't just cute,it was pretty lusty, but it was
just.
It was a nice moment and I lovethe like.
You like you build up thetension.
The tension is building.

(51:52):
It's like forever.
Will they, won't they?
Obviously they're going to.
When is it going to be all ofthat?
And then that's when ithappened.
It was, it was not.
It was a fun thing and the factthat she slipped in the
thundersnow that turns out toactually have been violet signet
was kind of a nice touch,because I did not clock it I
don't know if you did, but I didnot clock it.
The first time and and then,when we find out later and then,

(52:15):
and then on my second read,it's it mentions that she feels
like a surge when that happensand I was like, how did I miss
that?
Like obviously, I guess Iassumed it was just like emotion
, you know, or lust, or whatever, but no, it was actually her
power.
So it was a good scene, Ithought it was.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
So it was a good scene.
I thought it was.
It was a good one, um.
And then I had one otherstandout moment, which is kind
of a small moment.
It wasn't like a big storymover, um, when she's reunited
with mira and mira pushes her tohold on to her own identity so
that she doesn't lose who she'sgoing to be just because she's
now head over heels over z yesum, both re rihanna and mira

(52:59):
make comments about how sure youknow like he's the strongest
writer right now.
However, yeah you have thepotential to be a more powerful
writer and, uh, all I can thinkof is that tiktok sound like
he's literally just a boy, justa guy.
That's perfect, um, so I likedthat.

(53:20):
I like that, you know I.
I like it when women have eachother's backs.
Yeah for sure.
Uh, riannon has been a greatfriend to her, and her sister
has done her a solid and alsohas the benefit of a few more
years as a dragon rider underher belt.
It can be like you still needto work on you as a writer.
I don't care.

Speaker 2 (53:41):
What's what all this is no, that was, I had forgotten
about that moment.
That was a really good moment,um, and that reminded me of
another one kind of completelyunrelated but I will say another
favorite moment for me, justbecause it was fun, it was a
good part of the story was thetwist that the war games weren't
actually war games, like thatday that dave had read violence

(54:02):
mind and sent them on thismission.
Or, you know, his dadpresumably had sent them on this
suicide mission, um to testtheir loyalty.
And then they all decided thatthey were going to help the town
instead.
That to me felt very fantasy,like high fan more high fantasy
it's like no, you know, I'vebeen trying to, um protect the
107 for this long and, uh, youknow this easy thing would be to

(54:26):
go back and just continue thesestupid war games.
But the right thing is going tobe sacrificing myself to save
the city.
And everyone agreed and it wasjust like this awesome moment.
I just like I could see it inmy mind's eye, the like opening
of the envelope, the shockedface, the that whole, that whole
.
I thought that was a good storyelement, um, so I'd say that
was probably one of my faves,yeah, oh, and then of course,

(54:50):
the brennan, I mean that was,which never gets old.
It's not going to get old ever.
So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, uh,I guess is it time to pick.

Speaker 1 (55:03):
I think it's time for an MVP.

Speaker 2 (55:05):
Uh, okay.
So, uh, we have this traditionwhere we pick MVPs, uh, for
every read that we have, and atthe end of the book, we decide
who the book MVP is, and it'swild that we could do that
literally right now.
What we did in the first one iswe picked an MVP and a runner
up.
Runner up got one MVP, got twopoints.
So let's do this, jessica.

(55:26):
Who do you have as your runnerup this episode?
I have mine already, I thinkepisode.

Speaker 1 (55:40):
Oh god, oh, I have mine already, I think.
Oh, sweet, georgia brown I.
I really think that myrunner-up has to be liam.
Okay, um, it's.
It's almost a consolation prize, but he was such a good friend
and he was a great uh method forher to learn more about the,
the rebellion kids and whattheir plot was, as well as the

(56:03):
practical aspects of uh keepingher safe and being a good dude
and helping her grow in hersquad.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah, um, I think that he was a really solid
wingman and he will be missed hewill be missed and I'll just
jump right in and say he wasalso my runner-up.
So yeah, so we're on the samepage.
Honestly, he was one of myfavorite characters.
It was wild to me when Istarted reading, rereading, that
like we basically didn't really, we weren't really introduced

(56:35):
to him until the second half ofthe book, like I think we might
have heard that he was like thebest in their year but that was
it.
And then we meet this whole newcharacter essentially and fall
in love with him in half of abook.
So and then they got, he got.
He got ripped out from us,which is really sad, but his
little carvings like he was sucha good friend he went to the
ball thing or whatever youreunification celebration with

(56:56):
violet.
Even though he didn't have to,he yeah, he was just a really
good guy and he was cute too.
Like you know, after thereunification party, when
they're all gathering and he'slike tucking in his shirt, she's
like how was your night?
He's like pretty good, he'sblushing, he's just like a sweet
guy but then also an absolutebadass.

Speaker 1 (57:12):
So I don't know, I liked him a lot, yeah which
means I'm gonna make you gofirst, because you made me go
first on runner up okay, I'llhappily go first and I'm happy
to report that our protagonist,violet, got my mvp this episode.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Um, mainly because of what you said earlier, which is
that in that final battle,despite her taking way too long
to figure out that she needed tokill the venon in order to kill
the wyvern, she was the mvp ofthat battle.
I would say, um, and yeah, shewas great.
Also, just like all the workthat she put in to get where she

(57:50):
was right, like countless hoursof studying and the sparring
and all that stuff.
Like she took her job veryseriously and I feel like she
made the right choice.
Even though it went against hercountry or whatever, she still
decided to protect innocentcivilians, which she didn't have

(58:11):
to, especially right afterbeing betrayed, or seemingly
being betrayed, by all thepeople around her.
Um, and I do think that at timesshe took like she was.
People were trying to like walkall over her, like jack was
trying to provoke her.
Um, you know, zayden's tryingto do whatever he does.
Dave is a piece of shit.

(58:32):
Like all these people are liketrying to either protect her in
a way that she doesn't want tobe protected or whatever, and
she always kind of tried to holdher own, which is part of the
reason that she got herchanneling powers right, like
she stood up for herself.
She was, she um, didn't lose hertemper, all that stuff most of
the time, and so I feel like shegrew as a character and did a

(58:53):
killer job in that battle andbasically sacrificed herself.
So yeah, mvp for me, what aboutyou?

Speaker 1 (59:03):
So I was going to do Violet too.
That's great.

Speaker 2 (59:07):
I mean yeah.

Speaker 1 (59:10):
For a lot of the reasons that you said.
She is still very young andthat is not a crime.
But at the end of the day sheis very smart and she is used to
having to problem solve in waysthat you know you can't blunt,
force, trauma your way throughthings.
She has to think about things.
She has to do other things.
I thought it was brilliant theway that she handled their first

(59:34):
um war game, where she knewcame up with the idea to steal
the map from her mom's office,like she is consistently
thinking about things from adifferent angle, um, and I feel
like, if anything, she grew intothat more here.
So all of the other things thatI might sound like criticisms

(59:54):
of her.
She's done an incredible joband she really showed up for the
people in that village of Resinand, yeah, I think she really
deserved it.
By the time the book was over,yeah, I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:00:07):
So I guess that makes our calculations easy, because
no one got MVP twice and Liamwas our-up for both of our
runner-up, which is funny.

Speaker 1 (01:00:18):
it's very uniform and um, but anyways, I guess that
officially puts Violet as ourMVP and I think that's the first
time we voted for theprotagonist the primary,
unanimously, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:00:32):
I think it is.
I think it is.
That's pretty wild, becauselast season, not last season,
last episode, if you'll recall,my mvp was zayden, my runner-up
was mira, your mvp was wasreannon and your runner-up was
zayden, wasn't it?
I think so okay so zayden, Iguess, is just behind violet,

(01:00:54):
which is appropriate with threepoints.
So, yeah, that makes sense.
Violet is our MVP and Zayden isour runner-up, as it should be.

Speaker 1 (01:01:05):
Yes, 100%, as it should be Okay.
So that brings us to the realquestion.

Speaker 2 (01:01:13):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
Critter.

Speaker 2 (01:01:16):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (01:01:18):
Are we going to keep reading the fourth wing series?

Speaker 2 (01:01:23):
Well, there's a lot that goes into that question.
I'm of two minds.
One of my mind says I ampersonally going to keep reading
because it is a fast, easy read.
I want to know what happens andI'm having a good time with it.
Also, it's really popular and Ihave to know, like, why people

(01:01:46):
are so so into it, Other thanthe fact that I think I've
figured it out and that it'sbasically Twilight.
On the other hand, as we'vementioned, the age gap between
us and the protagonist and thegenre itself is not as like in
our wheelhouse as we mightnormally go, Not our first

(01:02:10):
choice as far as our wheelhouseand what we might read.
So, yeah, I, as I said, I'mgoing to read it no matter what,
and so I would be happy tocontinue, but also I don't have
to continue doing it on thepodcast.
How are you feeling?

Speaker 1 (01:02:26):
I am a lot of the same.
You know not to bore our fans,but I'm a lot of the same.
I do want to keep readingbecause there's enough payoff
with the things that I careabout and it is such an easy,
pleasant read that I probablywill keep going.
Um, but I'm also like is thisreally podcast worthy material?

(01:02:49):
Um, so I think that the thingthat makes the very most sense
is that we give the but aretheir dragons family a voice and
help us choose whether this issomething that they want us to
continue to do on the podcast orif they'd like to see us go to

(01:03:13):
a different IP.
Um, because the alternative isis, if you and I have both said
like we're going to continue toread this, then we stuck back to
where we were last month, whichis what are we going to read
for the podcast?
right so I think let'scrowdsource this answer okay,
okay so, but are there dragons,fam?

Speaker 2 (01:03:35):
We're not asking you what we should read.
We are asking you three booksin we'll probably end up
finishing the series, but do weread the next one or do we not

(01:03:59):
read the next one?
And if we decide if you help usdecide that we're not going to
read the next one on the podcast, at that point Jessica and I
will have a little meeting ofthe minds and figure out what we
want to read next.
So, yeah, let us know yourthoughts.
Let us know if you enjoyedfourth wing, if you had read it
before, if you're reading it forthe first time with us, if your

(01:04:19):
thoughts about it align withour thoughts or deviate entirely
, and if they do, that's totally, totally fine, it it?
It was eye opening.
It was really interesting toread, just because I knew so
many people have read it and itwas all over book talk and you
know whatever, and so I neededto know.
I needed to know, and I'mreally glad that I do know now.

Speaker 1 (01:04:40):
Yeah, and this was our first time with this format.
So here we are.

Speaker 2 (01:04:45):
Here we are.

Speaker 1 (01:04:47):
It was a good.
It was a great intro book forthat, but I would love to hear
what the Butter the Dragonsfamily have to say.
Same and yeah, I think that'sthe best way to do it.

Speaker 2 (01:04:58):
Okay, so let us know on the Discord, in the comments
on YouTube, on social media,wherever you want to.
Let us know, let us know whichbook whether we should continue
reading the fourth wing, thenext book in the fourth wing
series Okay book in the fourthwing series okay, thank you so

(01:05:19):
much for tuning in to our secondregular season episode of
season five and last episode ofseason five of but are there
dragons brought to you by yourhosts jessica sadai and critter
xd?
Don't forget to follow us atbut are there dragons on youtube
, instagram and tiktok andonspod?
Just one T on X.
You can also find your hosts onsocial media as CritterXD and

(01:05:39):
Shelf Indulgence.
That is it for today.
We commend Fourth Wing to Malik.

Speaker 1 (01:05:47):
Bye.