Season 5 Episode 5: Iron Flame: An Improvement? 1st Time Readers Chat Iron Flame pt 1!

Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where two friends pick a book at least one of them has not read and talk about it. For our fifth season, we're reading the Empyrean Series by Rebecca Yarros! We recently finished Fourth Wing, and this is our first episode discussing Iron Flame. We cover the first half of the book, Chapters 1-35.

Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.

Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
welcome to.
But are there dragons, apodcast where two friends pick a
book at least one of themhasn't read and talk about it?
I'm your host, critter, and I'myour host, jess, and we're here
to talk about the first half ofiron flame by rebecca yarrow's,
chapters 1 through 35.
As first time readers, neitherof us has read any iron Flame

(00:25):
and all we know about the seriesis what we just read in fourth
wing in our last couple ofepisodes.
So it's very fresh, it's veryexciting.
Jessica, how are you feeling?

Speaker 2 (00:36):
I'm good, I'm into it , I'm ready to talk about it
with you, yeah same same.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
What else is new other than Iron Flame things?
Same same.
What else is new other?

Speaker 2 (00:43):
than Iron Flame things.
I mean, we're doing summerthings right.
It's summertime and we are all,at least in our house trying to
compromise between beating theheat but enjoying summer while
it's here.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02):
I see that you've got a certain shirt on.

Speaker 1 (01:03):
You did something super fun.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Last week I did, I did.
Can you tell the audiencesomething super fun?
Last week I did, I did.
Can you tell the audience I can?
For those who can't see, I amwearing a Critical Role live
shirt.
They were in Indianapolis,which is very drivable from
where Mr and Mrs Jessica live,so we took a little road trip to
Indianapolis for the first time.
We did not go to Gen Con thistime.
However, I do imagine that thatwill happen at some point, not

(01:25):
go to Gen.
Con this time.
However, I do imagine that thatwill happen at some point, but
it was a big deal.
Mr Jessica introduced me toCritical Role and it also is
their 10-year anniversary, so itwas very cool.
It was super fun.
It was a venue of about 7,500Critter fans.
Wow, and it's C Critter insteadof K Critter.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
I was thinking like can I make a?

Speaker 2 (01:48):
joke about this, but yes, um, I mean, I bet you could
pack a stadium if you reallytry uh, do my just figured.

Speaker 1 (01:55):
I have to figure out my talent first, but we'll get
there well, I mean, you couldbring baby dragon and that would
definitely draw crap.
He is.
He is pretty fabulous, the babydragon.
He just started standing up byhimself.
You know, one of those like hestands up and he's like and then
he falls over.
It's like the cutest thing inthe world.
And if you're just listeningand not watching, what I did was

(02:16):
hold my arms up as if I'mbalancing and then wiggle a lot,
because that's what he lookslike.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
It's really cute as only delicious chonky toddlers
can do.
It's amazing.
I can't wait exactly um, sohe's amazing.

Speaker 1 (02:30):
We're moving, so this might, if you're watching, this
might be.
This probably will be the lastrecording I ever make at this
setup like this.
I'm excited to change my setup,but also incredibly daunted,
because there's a lot going onbehind me and a lot of like it.
Has it changed, it has manyiterations over time and, uh, I

(02:54):
don't even know if I'm gonna belike in a corner versus behind
in front of a flat wall.
I haven't decided any of it.
I know, like, what the roomlooks like, but I just haven't
decided anything.
So we'll see what my setuplooks like here in a month.

Speaker 2 (03:07):
It's exciting, but it's a lot of work, yeah you
might still be there for thelast half of this book you might
, I'll physically be here, butmy backdrop because we're gonna
have to paint this room becauseit's I mean, it's gonna be
covered in holes.

Speaker 1 (03:25):
It seems a mileage.
This is easily gonna be theworst room for like needing wall
repair.
So, yeah, I'm in haste withearnest.
I don't know how to say it.
I'm gonna be getting after thatsoon, so I don't know which
backdrop I'm gonna choose forour next recording, because I'll
be in this house, but there'snot gonna be a lot in this house

(03:47):
, so it might just be a blankwall.
We'll see.

Speaker 2 (03:49):
We'll see definitely exciting stuff it is.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
So you know what else is exciting?
Iron flame.
So I told my discord this, butI read it once, like, like at my
normal speed, which is about, Ithink, 1.5 speed with this
narrator, and then I where itended, which, like, we'll talk
about, but well, I guess we cantalk about it because it's full

(04:15):
spoilers.
Where it ended, where it's likeZayden and Dane working
together to free Violet from theevil torture man, what, and
that's how it ended.

Speaker 2 (04:30):
But let's just take a moment to enjoy not one but two
books in a row where we have,completely out of pure
circumstance, uh, picked stellarcliffhanger spots like I think.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
We'll stop here wild, although part of me now is like
is this a strategy of authors?
To be like, oh, you're notgonna stop halfway through this
book, let me show you whathappens halfway through this,
you know like maybe it's not us,maybe it's maybe them trying to
get us, maybe that's a formulathat we're becoming wise to or

(05:07):
yeah, becoming wise, fallingeither way same vibes so I could
not believe that that was howit ended and that I couldn't
keep reading, because we have tomaintain our non-spoiled self
it's hard, and so I read itagain at two times speed, just
immediately.
So I've read it twicetechnically, um, or you know,

(05:28):
I've read the first half twicebecause I was just like, first
of all, I need to make sure Iremember things and and,
secondly, I want to keep readingthis book.
So I'm just gonna keep readingthis book in the way that I can.
So how did you feel at the end?

Speaker 2 (05:45):
So unusually for me.
So normally I'm the one that'sdone earlier and has to reread
as well.
This time I didn't.
I finished this chapter todayand I fell asleep during chapter
34 last night, which is wild,because it was so action packed.
But yeah it just my bodycouldn't stay up any longer.

(06:08):
So I finished 35 today and Iwas just genuinely excited that
I don't have to wait long.
I was like, oh, this would havereally sucked if I had finished
this two weeks and had to.
You know, cool my jets.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
So I tell you what's really easy reading audiobooks
while you're packing right,mindless activity, put in some
headphones and wow, you canreally eat a book quickly.
And I did so.
Here we are.
I want to say something becauseI can't wait any longer.
But remember during Fourth Wing, when I, in passing, said I

(06:49):
want to say that I never believesomebody is dead until I see a
body.

Speaker 2 (06:56):
So let's talk about it, because we had not just one,
but two, two.

Speaker 1 (07:11):
And I said that in reference to not just one but
two, but two when jack motherbarlow went down with the
mountain I was, like I alreadypredicted, brandon's not dead,
so I feel repetitive, butwhere's the body?
Where's the body?
And you know what happened they?

Speaker 2 (07:26):
they brought him back and part of it so did they
bring him back to life.

Speaker 1 (07:30):
He called it soul mending I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:34):
I don't understand the healing um powers here very
well, you know.
So, between even even just theway violet was healed at the end
of the first book and you knowwhy, was she kind of
disconnected from her power fora little while during the

(07:54):
healing process.
So there's definitely somemechanics that play with the way
that they heal in this worldthat I don't feel like I have a
good grasp on.
Yeah, but I was like how is henot a zombie?
And then also, because we arefull spoilers for the first half
of the book, um, he's sochanged and is it?
is it a show or is it real?

Speaker 1 (08:17):
and he's making us think that it's real because he
literally saved her life.
That's wild.
So like was his soul corruptedand when it got mended he became
less of a psychopath.
And okay, I don't.

Speaker 2 (08:36):
That's like total I mean that's an aspect of healing
right like I would maybe.

Speaker 1 (08:41):
I mean because he was completely messed up in the
brain like evil and you know,probably sociopathic.
And now he's back and he's niceand he's tutoring first years
on the mat and he's savingViolet and he's giving weird
like sup nods to Violet.
It's, it's perplexing and thebiggest question that I had,
because I loved being right butI also don't love not knowing

(09:07):
why they would mend him when somany other cadets die daily.
Like and he was dead, you knowwhat I mean Like I would at
least, but why him?
But why him?
Who made the decision?
Why did they make that decision?
I hope we find that out,because if we don't, it's gonna

(09:30):
feel very random and just kindof annoying yeah, I kind of lost
that in the shuffle, but that'san excellent point.

Speaker 2 (09:38):
Um, yeah, because what what's so great about him
other than the fact that he wasready to do murder just standing
in line?
So I mean, is that the solequalification for him to be part
of their plan?

Speaker 1 (09:54):
I don't have no idea it.
It's gonna confuse me untilthey explain it.
And yeah, yeah because why?
just why, you know, andobviously don't tell me, because
spoilers, if we do find outeventually, but if we don't find
out, it's gonna be one of mybig critters gonna stay up all
night and pack and finish thisbook I don't want to say that,

(10:16):
that's not true, but I have beenlike getting in bed and like
having it in my ear, you know,while I'm like, okay, so I'm
gonna stop, I'm gonna turn itoff at 10, 30, and then I'll
actually go to sleep and thenit'll be like 1035 and I'll be
like, damn it, okay, okay, I'mreally going to do it.
So you know, that's what's onething about these books like
they make you want to keepreading.
They're not hard reads, they'renot complicated reads but

(10:49):
they're fun, they're really fun.

Speaker 2 (10:50):
So, again, coming at it from the perspective of I
just caught up, you know, aboutthree hours before we're
recording this Aspects of thisbook I am less focused on.
It's kind of a mid-level, rightto the parts of the book that
really have grabbed me.
So these last two, threechapters were very action-packed
and it was really hard to putit down.
Uh, so we're in the midst ofsome really good stuff and there

(11:13):
were definitely some choicesthat the writer made through the
first half of this book that,um, engaged me as well.
You know I've got a couple of oftop five moments, but like me
as well, you know I've got acouple of of top five moments,
but like, um, yeah, there arejust some choices that she made
in the writing that I don't knowif I'm just becoming more

(11:33):
accustomed to her writing andthe things that take me out, I
just kind of ignore them andmove on maybe that's what's
happening, but there, there wasone, so are you ready for my one
?

Speaker 1 (11:44):
that completely took me out of the entire book Twice.
It happened twice.
The first time I didn't writeit down because I was like what
was that?
And then I just kept reading.
I kept listening.
The second time, I paused itbecause I was like I thought
that's what I heard last timeand the fact that this is real
is insane.
So this is what I wrote downHis lips slid down my throat.

(12:12):
Now, if I'm reading that, theimage that comes to mind is a
disembodied pair of lipsproceeding down the esophagus.
That's what I slid down mythroat In this instance, and she
does this with several wordsthat I've noticed, but in this

(12:35):
instance I would expect her tosay neck.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
But instead she said throat, yep, so huge huge pet
peeve.

Speaker 2 (12:43):
That's so funny too, because I definitely noticed it
in the moment and had to go backand reread it and then I was
like, oh, neck, neck neck.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
He also.
She also uses um head, when Iwould expect the word mind, like
for example Zayden, will saysomething along the lines of
what's going on in thatbeautiful head of yours.
I know that's not nearly asegregious, but mind is a little
bit more romantic, I don't know.

(13:20):
Head is in the same way thatshe uses know.
Head is just it's.
It's in the same way that sheuses mouth instead of lips.
Everything's mouth, not lips.
And so we, I just need to, uh, Ijust beg to differ when it
comes to some of the wordchoices she makes, and somehow
it's body parts, for some reason, I don't know, but the biggest,
most egregious one was easilythroat instead of neck.

(13:44):
That was a wild choice.
Um, so, dear listeners, if youhave any other things that took
you out of the story because ofthe choices made by the author
you know wording wise I wouldlove to hear them because,
honestly, at this point it justkind of makes me laugh.
It's just, you know, yeah,choice of the author, and uh,

(14:05):
those are just not choices Iwould make.
So I, I'm, I would respectfullydecline if my love interest
offered to slide his lips downit doesn't even sound like a
nice thing.
It does not sound like a thingyou want somebody to do, like
one of the like what are theywhenever they, whenever they
test for um?

Speaker 2 (14:26):
oh my gosh what is barium swallow?

Speaker 1 (14:28):
is that what it is like whenever they're testing
for uh, what's it called?
Whenever you have reflex?
Yeah, well, they're testing forreflex.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Slide like a camera down yeah, that's a scope or
barium swallow.
Is they make you swallow thecontrast so they can see what's
happening?

Speaker 1 (14:43):
uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.
Might as well just send a pairof lips down there to feel it
out.
Oh no, I'm so sorry.
Okay, still no, we candefinitely move on, I just
anyways.

Speaker 2 (14:56):
I do think that it's interesting, though and that was
definitely my takeaway today,as I was percolating while I was
cooking, because I frequentlyprocess my read while I'm doing
other things that was definitelysomething that was on my mind

(15:16):
is.

Speaker 1 (15:16):
I'm not 100% sure what is me just becoming
accustomed to her style?
And is this book a little bitsmoother, a little bit?

Speaker 2 (15:21):
I do think it happened less where I was like
what, and of course the truth isprobably somewhere in the
middle right Like a little bitof both probably, but I did not
find it as jarring this time andI feel like I'm excited.
I'm I'm just as excited, if notmore excited, to read the
second half of this book as Iwas with fourth way easily yeah,

(15:42):
yeah, I think this one had alot of elements to it that I
really dug.

Speaker 1 (15:49):
You know, I don't know it, just it feels like
there's just more going on andmaybe it's because a lot of
books have the.
They suffer somewhat from youhaving to kind of settle in, get
to know the environment, givesanother world, gets another
characters, and so there's atransition period of you
entering the world.
We're in the the world already,so we just dropped right in and
got moving and maybe thathelped.

(16:10):
Because I feel like a lothappened in the first half of
this book.
Right, she engaged with Brennan, they were off with the rebels
and they had to come back andthey had to convince everyone
why they were gone.
And then just like, and then itjust, you know, we met varish
and there's he's torturingpeople and they have that what
rnc or whatever the hell.
It's called rsc, rsc and andyou know, there's just like,

(16:33):
different things happeningconstantly.
It's it's very fast paced,which I thought was great.

Speaker 2 (16:37):
Um, and the rsc is a fun addition, I think, like it
is I, I the call out and I'msure this was done for the
benefit of the reader.
Well, that's kind of a dumbthing to say.
Everything's done for thebenefit of the reader, right?
But there was an offhandcomment made in one of the
chapters about how I'm going toparaphrase it, because I didn't

(17:01):
even highlight it.
But basically, second yearsjust know enough to be dangerous
.
Like they know enough to knowwhat you know, what they didn't
understand when they were firstyears about why the gauntlet was
important and why threshing wasimportant and why these
different maneuvers wereimportant.
Like they get it now in context.
But they still don't know asmuch as third years.
But they think they know enoughthat they're okay.

(17:26):
And that resonated with me asthe reader.
I do feel like the stakes havebeen elevated.
I do feel like that energy andemphasis and danger has elevated
for this book, has elevated forthis book, for whatever reason.

(17:47):
This time around it was more inmy head about lots of
unexpected comparisons toHogwarts vibes and I'm not sure
if that was left over from aconversation but, I, was like
Hogwarts did get dangerous.
Hogwarts was probably alwaysdangerous, uh, but I feel like
we went from zero to 60 on thedanger scale here versus I felt

(18:09):
like hogwarts was a slowlyboiling pot um across the course
of seven books.

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Um, that's funny that you mentioned that, because we
got, uh we asked people for likequestions, right, or like
topics of discussion, and uh wegot some from a good friend of
ours, mr Salaya, and one of thecomments she made is that Varish
is basically Professor Umbridgepunishing Violet by nearly
burning her out and it'sbasically just classic Hogwarts
magical school with corporalpunishment.

Speaker 2 (18:41):
Yeah, and the superficially polite exterior
yeah as I do, like trulyhorrible things.

Speaker 1 (18:47):
Yeah, yeah, because under the guise of being your
educator I didn't even notice,but like late in this read
violet says I saw varish frownfor the first time and I was
like does that mean?
He's just like maniacallysmiling at you like I didn.
I didn't pick that up eithertime.
Actually, I noticed it for thefirst time towards the end of my
second read.
I was just like oh so he isProfessor Umbridge basically

(19:11):
yeah, it's terrible.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
The other thing that I especially about Varys with
this book I definitely noticedit in the other book Is it
epithets that are go.
That are the quotes that gobefore the chapter.
Why am I drawing a blank on theword um?

Speaker 1 (19:32):
you know what?
It's not epitome.
I mean, epithet is a word, butnow I'm not sure what the word
is, I would go with it.

Speaker 2 (19:41):
So I, as you know, and probably most of our Butter
their Dragons family knows, likehaving read Brandon Sanderson,
for example, I like those littlesnippets that happened before
the chapter.
I like to look at those.
And as this book opened, itopened with a comment about how

(20:03):
Epigraph, epigraph Okay, I knewit was epith.
Yeah, yeah well thank you,you're welcome um.
So the first epigraph, Ibelieve, on the first chapter
was regarding varish and how hewas not allowed to do um
interrogations anymore becausehis methods were too
controversial or too brutal, um,and so what a great bit of

(20:24):
foreshadowing, but that stuckout to me so different things
like that.
The other thing about theepigraphs that I really love and
this is one of the things thatI had as like my top five vibes
from the first half of the bookI like the letters.
The book, um, I like theletters, I like that he wrote

(20:50):
her letters and, um, I like thembeing used as epigraphs.
And there was even an epigraphin there that was her reply to
him.
So I like the pen pal.
I don't.
I'm sure it's just the nerdgirl in me, but it is so
wholesome yeah um, and it is amethod of communication without,
without guile for them, and Ilove that yeah, I feel like it's

(21:17):
.

Speaker 1 (21:17):
You know, if she put fourth wing to a focus group or
something, I was like what'smissing in their relationship?
It's sweetness.
I don't know, maybe, maybethat's what she got back, and so
now these notes are insertingan element of sweetness, I think
.
And it's funny because it's notjust the fact that he's writing
her the contents of the letters, but it's also her reaction to
them, right like I can'tremember, was it?

(21:38):
Um, oh, I forgot her name.
Now, this is horrible.
Imogen or Rhiannon yeah,imogen's like commenting like
you're grinning like an idiot orsomething like that after she
got one of the letters, and likeViolet mentioned how you know
she wasn't having nightmares orsomething after she got the
letter and all this stuff andit's just.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
It's just that sweetens their relationship for
sure, because it's like been so,like sexual right, it's been so
physical, especially in thefirst book, although sexual and
turbulent and, um you know,competitive at certain points
and you know there's I don'twant to say deception, because I

(22:14):
don't necessarily agree withthat, take um, but yeah, so it's
nice for them to have somethingthat is pure, something that is
easy, something that is just alittle bit more wholesome.

Speaker 1 (22:27):
Yeah, so we're talking about their relationship
.
So let's talk about theirrelationship, them before, which
to me feels like a doublestandard.
But then she also is mad at himfor his telling her that he

(22:48):
can't tell her everything, eventhough I could have swore at the
end of fourth wing he said hewas gonna tell her everything.
And so now I'm just like whatare?
Like these people are drivingme nuts with like latching on to
these ultimatum style dealbreakers that turn out not to be
deal breakers because, likethey ended up having sex anyways

(23:09):
, probably for the reader,because this is romance and they
wanted to make sure they got iton.
But just like, ultimately, Idon't know, it's just driving me
.
That's because, like violet,for example, was not telling all
of her friends almost anything,yep, and it's like so that's
okay when you do it, but notwhen Zayden does it, because he

(23:30):
was trying to protect you and abunch of people by not telling
you and now you're trying toprotect them and it's okay.
It's just Anyways.

Speaker 2 (23:38):
Violet was driving me nuts, but Zayden also, it was
making me mad that he's neversaid I love you to her and he
wants her to say it to him.
Where are you at with this?
So I'm pretty well aligned withthat.
I kind of figured this is thecrux of their struggle.
So I knew that we weren't goingto get away from this anytime

(24:00):
soon, unfortunately, I highlysuspected it would be a while.
I don't have a lot of patiencefor it mostly because I think
that it's a huge double standard, as you're pointing out.
And also I think that I waspersonally glad when Zayden's
like there's going to be thingsI just can't tell you.

(24:22):
I was glad that he kind of drewthat line, because if that's
the nature of your relationship,then say that up front.
Yeah, okay, so we've got thatout in the open.
There are going to be secrets.
I can be honest with you aboutwho I am, and et cetera, et
cetera.
I liked that approach.

(24:43):
I also did not like the umuntil you beg for it, cause
that's what that felt like.
So I don't care if you wrap itin, I love you.
The not until you beg for ittrope, I'm Nope, I don't Nope, I
don't like it.

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, yeah, I'm not going to lie there.
When they finally had a sexscene like in the shower I guess
was the first one I was I wasjust like okay, like I feel like
there's a lot, like a lot.
I haven't read a ton of romancebooks, but the ones that I have
read have done, or or justromance at all, I've.
I when it was a huge thing.

(25:27):
I feel like the likeanticipation is great sometimes,
right, you're like oh, my god,it's finally happening.
This is so exciting.
In this case, I was like okay,let's.
I mean like, okay, cool, Idon't really care about this,
like not super invested, um,just because of how they got
there, I guess I don't know, itwas just, it just didn't really
land for me.
I think they're I don't know.
I think the sex scenes in thefirst book were better than this

(25:48):
one that we've had so far, orhave we did we have two?
I can't even remember theyweren't even that memorable.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
I feel like we had two.
We might have had two, likewhen she came to see him in
samara.

Speaker 1 (26:00):
Uh-huh, maybe, maybe well, she thought he was that
was the one where she thought hewas like when she came to see
him in Samara, maybe, maybe.
Well, she thought he was.
That was the one where shethought he was like hurt, right,
and they went to the shower anddid their thing.

Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yep, so it might've been just one, I agree, like it
doesn't do a lot.
So I I do understand, and Iagree with you a hundred percent
that sometimes the anticipationof it is great.
I, I agree with you 100% thatsometimes the anticipation of it
is great.
I think the only thing for meis it marked the fact that she's
willing to start moving beyondor soften on her hard line that

(26:34):
she's drawing about him and himlying to her, which I don't.
I got to stop with the airquotes today.
Yeah, it's very rude of me.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
The way they got there.
Maybe it was part of the issuewhen I was like, okay, you guys
are all just like.
I don't know.
He still hasn't said I love you, but he thinks he knows that
she does love him, which ismaking it better.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
And she's just lying to everybody.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
She's lying to everybody.

Speaker 2 (27:06):
You know, we didn't really talk about it, but the
whole point.
So I'm an only child and itreally shows sometimes, uh, so
the concern about brennan beingalive and how conflicted she
felt about not telling mira, andthat was one of those moments
where I was like, oh, oh, shootyeah.
Like if I, yeah, if you didn'ttell me, I'd be furious.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think of, like, how
you'd feel, how I would handleit.
Yeah, cause it's like, first ofall, blood is thicker than
water.
I don't know.
You know like family isimportant and she loves mira
like smear her like this, andthey were all three like this

(27:51):
and so I feel like, in thatsense, like those people, your
rider dies I.
I can't believe she didn't tellher honestly, but I guess she
kind of like tried to a littlebit by doing the like, kind of
insinuating that the dragonsacross the border could be
wyvern right and mira, kind ofwas like you're a little.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
Yeah, there was.
No, there was no crumb trail todrop like brennan might just
happen to oopsie be alive yeah,yeah, but yeah, I, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
It's like the fact that also, she didn't tell Mira.
But then one of my top fivemoments was when she finally
effing told her friends Rhiannon, yeah, tell me whenever you're
ready, I'm ready to talk to you.
She's never done anything tomake Milo think that she

(28:44):
couldn't be trusted, and shetook so long.
And the way that it happenedwas she basically only told her
because she had to get thatdagger out of her jacket and
Rhiannon was the one who did it,right.
God knows how much longer itwould have been.
And, lo and behold, she tellsthem and almost immediately she
finds out information that shedidn't have.

Speaker 2 (29:01):
That was unbelievably clutch for her research project
so, so that's the one that Iwrote down.
Uh, what was it, um?
Is it riddick?
Riddick?
I think he's like wait, do Iknow something about the
archives that you don't and itwas such a hilarious feat, I'm
like I don't care.

(29:22):
I love that.
That's a great moment, havingknown some library know-it-alls
in my time, heck yeah, good foryou.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, it was great, and the fact that that led up to
another one of my favoritemoments of my top five, which
was the heist I'm a suckerSucker for a heist and the fact
that we got a heist was reallyfun and it ended with like a
sprint to the finish with like aclosing doors very indiana
jones big fan and I feel like itwas a well-done heist.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
I thought that it was , I thought that it was great.
Um, I love, uh, I love thepursuit of knowledge, you know,
and I love the fact that themystery of this revolves around
record keeping and history andthings like that.
You know the winner's righthistory or they curate it at

(30:28):
minimum and, uh, what the impactis of that and how they can
whitewash certain things orremove certain things in from
their existence, and what thatwould look like.
Um, trying to go back and findancient stories.
So I do.
I took notes.
It's the first thing under myprediction center, but I I'm
like this is not a prediction.
So Venon were eradicated in theGreat War 600 years ago.

Speaker 1 (30:49):
Okay.

Speaker 2 (30:51):
But the stories were changed 400 years ago, mm-hmm.
Or would they think they werebased on what Violet's seeing
and stuff?
So finding a book that'sgreater than 400 years old is
really really hard.
So you know what happened inthose intervening 200 years.

(31:12):
You know, whatever, whateverpowers at large in the world,
that is, you know, marshallingthe Venon and the Wyverns and
things like that.
You know marshalling the Venonand the Wyverns and things like
that, you know, was in slumberfor like 200 years and then they
somehow infiltrated the archivesystem and started to slowly

(31:33):
work on removing any signs oftheir backstory or their
ultimate demise.

Speaker 1 (31:40):
Pretty wild, okay, yeah, yeah, pretty wild, okay,
yeah, yeah, it's uh, yeah, thethe fact that they have been
purged, it's us it's.

Speaker 2 (31:53):
It's very sad.
Yeah, there's so much, very so.
The that was one of.
That was another piece ofwriting that was in this book
that I liked is the uh, thepamphlet situation that happened
in the class.
I thought it was a veryinformative.
I love the fact that right awaythey looked for things to
authenticate that it was a realdocument.

(32:14):
They were like there's nopublishing date, there's no this
, this or this.
I was like but whoever's got aprinting press, you know, at
certain points in history thestories aren't regulated.
Anybody with a printing presscan make a press release.

Speaker 1 (32:33):
So I guess did we?
We never found out whodisseminated that.

Speaker 2 (32:38):
No.

Speaker 1 (32:39):
Do you have a prediction about that?

Speaker 2 (32:42):
I think that it was Farish.
Oh, I do.
A lot of my prediction isaround the yeah, basically all
of my prediction is around thefact that the oral histories
that.
So there was referencesomewhere in there that there
are several cultures who havepredominantly oral histories.

(33:09):
It was another society that wasmentioned, but they were like
we don't keep books, you knowwhat I mean.
So we didn't have anything tosend to the archives.
It was all predominantly anoral history tradition.
So I'm like my big predictionis that somehow what they need
is tied up in an oral history ofa country that they're probably

(33:31):
trying to dominate, decimate,whatever.

Speaker 1 (33:39):
That's a good.
I didn't even put that together, but you're right.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
They did make that comment about the oral histories
and that would be a threat tothe people trying to suppress
information and then jumping offof that I was like so I'm
hoping that along with thiscache of oral knowledge, there's
also a cache of, like otherpeople who wait prepared, knew
the story and are ready to golike insta allies be cool, that

(34:07):
would be cool.

Speaker 1 (34:08):
That would be cool.

Speaker 2 (34:09):
Okay, interesting so I get probably biggest
prediction so far in prediction.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
So also speaking of like people who can help right,
and I can't remember the name ofall this stuff, but we find out
that the resistance is tryingto convince some dude to like
let them use some thing that'snot fully in effect yet.

(34:37):
It sounds like Violet's powercould be used to power this
forge or whatever this machinething.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Are you talking about the Luminary?

Speaker 1 (34:46):
The Luminary.
What the hell is that?
I read it twice and I'm stilllike what is this thing?

Speaker 2 (34:52):
I'm not sure that I understand either.
Hold on Control.
F is my friend.
Aracia is working on a forge tosmelt a dagger, which requires
a luminary which intensifies thedragon fire.
So it's hot enough to smelt thespecial metal that goes in the
daggers.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
So it is Okay.
So it is kind of like a daggerforge essentially, and then
whatever conversation zayden had, the person's willing to
bargain, but the bargaining chipsomehow is violent right, right

(35:29):
, that's right, because my first, when I first heard like he
needs you, I was like, okay, sois it because her power is the
only thing that can power it?
or yeah, no, they made it soundlike he is a collector of
oddities and which reminds methe collector in guardians of
the galaxy yes, I absolutely wasgetting, uh, marvel marvel

(35:52):
vibes from that right, right,okay, so that's something that's
floating out there as well thatwe're eventually although
violet needs to get a whole weekof leave in order to get to
this guy's place, so we'll seehow that and she seems to have
zero misgivings whatsoever, likeno reservations, no concern,
just absolutely.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
I'm gonna go hang out with a stranger.
Yeah, I may not be able to aimmy lightning but who cares like
okay, violet, whatever, whateverand he believes uh, you know
that karis is looking to captureviolet or hold her against her
will and then use her signet forsome unknown purpose so, yeah,

(36:32):
we've talked a little bit aboutviolet and some of the things
she's done that have made us mad, but she's also had some really
excellent moments.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
So another one of my favorite moments this read was
her and Sloane.
Is that right when she poisonsSloane's competitor and she's
kind of cluing in her otherpeople, like the second years
and third years around her Notreally all of them, but her
besties, Imogen and Rihanna andthen at the end Sloane's like I

(37:07):
won fair and square and she'slike no, you did not.

Speaker 2 (37:10):
Listen up.
No, that's not what happened.

Speaker 1 (37:12):
You need to train and this is how I'm going to force
you to train.
I have these letters and everyweek that you train I'll give
you one of them.
And then Imogen is like wow, Isee what Zayden fell in love
with.
And it was just anothertestament to how Violet is
incredibly smart.
There are so many things thathappen between her and Zayden
that I'm like girl, my God, whatare you doing?

(37:33):
But with other things she'sawesome, and that was one of
those things I thought.

Speaker 2 (37:39):
It's the dichotomy, I guess, of being a
hormone-driven young personmaybe Although she is 21.

Speaker 1 (37:48):
I mean, the frontal lobe still hasn't developed, so
like okay.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
I mean it has in women, though I thought it was
25 for everybody.
No, that's men.

Speaker 1 (38:00):
That is news to me so .

Speaker 2 (38:01):
So she should be, she should be engaging a little bit
more, and I think she is.
I think that you know, I thinkthat the easy out is that the
the power of her relationshipwith zayden is so overwhelming
that it overwhelms her commonsense, but I do like it when we
see her be incrediblyintelligent yeah, same same and
just like strong.

Speaker 1 (38:22):
So we haven't really talked about the torture scenes.
But for some reason she gets toget tortured twice.
Um, first in the like thepractice round or whatever, yeah
, but that one didn't seem asbad, but then definitely not.
But then, holy hell, she gotreally really tortured the
second time around and she, shekilled it.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
Sorry she did.
No sorry, I just was like youknow, if we're going to talk
about, let's talk about it.
Um, before I, how did you feelabout Liam's hallucination being
her buddy through torture?

Speaker 1 (39:01):
I don't know what's realistic.
I guess Never been torturedhaven't looked into it much but
I can imagine being in that muchpain and having no likelihood
of escape, right.
No real hope that people willdevelop coping mechanisms, and
that felt like a really solidone, right?
Because the things that he wassaying to her, it was basically

(39:22):
what she knew because of all ofher training she was supposed to
be remembering, and having thatlike external vehicle in order
to give it to her was a cool andsmart, even if it was a
subconscious, method of doingthat.
So what about you?

Speaker 2 (39:42):
I I really liked it.
It was very sweet and poignantand resonated with me more than
I kind of thought it would.
I was like, oh, it's a little,it's a little bittersweet having
it be liam yeah um, yeah, I,when we first opened up onto it
I was like, well, but we, we didsee that body.
Okay, so nevermind that, butyeah, he's definitely dead.

(40:04):
Unless there's soul mendinghappening with his body that we
don't know about Right, so I Ireally liked it.
I was actually kind ofsurprised how much I liked it.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
I think the writing in that.
Sorry you go ahead.

Speaker 2 (40:19):
No, that was basically it.
I liked it far more than Iexpected.

Speaker 1 (40:23):
Yeah, I think the writing in that sequence was
some of the best writing right,and I don't know if it was the
combination of the writing andthe audiobook narrator, but the
way she played it, the way itwas written, it was very
visceral, like I felt like I waswatching this happen.
It was totally something Icould picture.
Um, just yeah, I don't knowlike the audiobook narrator

(40:44):
would be like breathless attimes or like would talk more
quietly when violet was likejust waking up or whatever.
Um, and so it was.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
It was really well done, very, very well done even
as a, even as a physical read itwas.
It was quite the page turner,like I just couldn't, yeah, stop
um, and both.

Speaker 1 (41:04):
Both times they called danon, both times, and
both times he surprised me.
Yeah, first time he said no, no, she's injured, so I can't, I
just, I just can't.

Speaker 2 (41:17):
Then he left second time pulled the old switcheroo
the second time, I let myselfhope.
I was like, please tell me.
First off, I thought it wasbrilliant that liam slash violet
was talking herself through,like, you don't have the
defenses to keep him out, so youcan do your best to make sure

(41:38):
you know what he's seeing andthat he sees stuff that he needs
to know.
I thought that that wasbrilliantly done.
But, yeah, I got, I let myhopes get up, even though you
know it's Dave, I, I let me.
I let myself get my hopes up.
So I was very happy when heturned on Varys.

Speaker 1 (41:57):
Very happy.
I kept like at the beginning Iwas like, okay, he's going to
see her tortured.
And they had that moment on themat where he was trying to get
to her and being like you knowwho actually cut Zayden right.
Did he tell you that he wastrying to get to her?
And I was like, okay, whateverhe wants to be her friend, he
didn't know what would happen,he still sucks, but okay.

(42:17):
And then the second time I waslike, okay, he's trying, he's
trying to do this olive branchthing.
But then he told varish aboutthe weapon smuggling and at that
point I was like, ah f him,this guy still sucks.
Like that's when my hope waslost for Dave.
But then he turned it around.

(42:38):
He turned it around and thatwas one of my other top moments,
surprisingly, because I'm not ahuge Dave fan.
In fact, the opposite of thefact that he both times refused
to really cooperate in what wasgoing on was refreshing.
And now it's the classic lovetriangle.
Like we couldn't just have alove pair, it had to remain a

(42:58):
triangle somehow.
And he was so out of therunning for that, like you know,
the end of true, the end offourth wing, the beginning of
iron flame, but now, like he'sgonna be back in the running,
kind of so he did some redeeming.
He did, he did, he did.
So we're gonna have more davein the future, is my guess.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
It's a pretty good guess, yeah, but we'll see, yeah
, we'll see.
I don't know, I don't know um,was there anything else we
wanted to talk about in terms oftorture scenes?
Uh, also, I would go back tothe rsc thing about how dropping

(43:34):
them in the woods and givingthem two different maps
hilarious hilarious and apt youknow, uh, I will point out that
our, our beloved roof.
Mr slaya, uh got a heartychuckle out of that as somebody
who's had combat trainingexperience and said that
absolutely tracks.
Um.
So yeah, I'm glad that it wasrealistic yeah yeah because it

(43:57):
felt like it to you know, to uscivvies.

Speaker 1 (43:59):
So although now that I'm thinking about it, because
I've done like a video aboutrebecca yaros on tiktok, but it
was like two years ago, but I'mpretty sure she is a military
wife, like, I think, herhusband's in the military, so
she might also have like someknowledge of what, how that
would go.
You know, different branchesinteracting, whatever, whatever.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
So, so but even if you take out the military piece,
just take two people who thinkthey're King shit on turd
mountain and their respectivefields, meaning the infantry
cadets, flying cadets, any two,good two groups of people who
think you know they can do nowrong and they know everything

(44:42):
yeah, yeah during that trainingit doesn't during that.

Speaker 1 (44:45):
While that was hilarious during the training, I
think one of the best momentswith rianne and happened, if I'm
remembering right, she likerelieved violet.
It's just like.
That was one of the momentswhere she's like whenever you're
ready, like I'm right, effinghere, like I know there's
something wrong with you andyou're not telling me.
Um, and so she was just apersistent friend, even though
Violet was consistently pushingher away, and not only that, but

(45:07):
as her squad leader or whatever.
She's like.
You need to sleep, so get thehell out of here.

Speaker 2 (45:12):
I'm going to take your watch and I'm glad that it
was Rhiannon that got it and notViolet.
I also liked the fact that theauthor addressed it you know
what I mean and had theconversation so that everybody
knows that there's no hardfeelings, like Violet didn't
have designs on the role anddoesn't secretly resent Rhiannon
for having it.

(45:33):
I was glad that that wasaddressed, because ambition
happens between women just asmuch as it does between men,
yeah, so I thought it was goodthat that was touched on.
And going back to what you saidabout her finally giving in and
finally opening up to them, Ireally liked Rhiananna's

(45:55):
reaction to the information and,yeah, that you know she
continued to be thoughtful andmindful and like, okay, well,
that that is a lot and, holyshit, you've been carrying this
all by yourself and I'm not evenmad.

Speaker 1 (46:10):
And also, how are we gonna fix this?
Yeah good, she's such a goodfriend, I don't know.
Know, she's great Big fan ofRhiannon, I have to say this
also.
So I today I was looking up thejust chapter summaries so I
could like scroll through andremember like big events or
whatever.
And because I'm on audiobook,it is hysterical to me how

(46:34):
things are spelled so, forexample, um bearish's dragon, oh
gosh, soulless, soulless.
The way she says it inaudiobook to me.
I thought it was spelledsoulless, s-o-u-l okay, l-e-s-s
and I'm like.
Well that tracks, because thatdragon sucks yeah, he's clearly
got no soul, so I heard soullessand immediately thought yeah, I

(46:56):
also.

Speaker 2 (46:57):
Up until today, I thought zayden was spelled
z-a-y-d-e-n, but of course it'san x just because that's why,
when we started the first book,I was like I don't actually know
how to say it right, yeah, Iwouldn't either zaden, I'm
zadeen, yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:16):
Oh yeah, it's not even just an X, it's what
X-A-D-Y-N or something.

Speaker 2 (47:20):
Nope, there's no Y, it's X-A-D-E-N.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
Oh, it is E Okay.
Okay, I can't see.

Speaker 2 (47:26):
But still, I'm like, I think it's yeah, zadden Anyway
.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
So every time I see things written, I'm funny.

Speaker 2 (47:33):
So physical book readers versus audiobook reader
problems?
You know, it's true, no matterwhich series you're reading.
It is so true, I can'tpronounce anything and you can't
spell anything.

Speaker 1 (47:44):
Yeah, because there was another dragon.
Is it Mira's dragon?
One of them, its name's Tiny.
I think one of the dragons atsome point.
Its name is Tiny, or at leastthat that's.
That's how the audiobooknarrator pronounces it.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
I thought it was okay .

Speaker 1 (48:00):
The best new one on dragon name, and maybe it was
somebody in, maybe it wassomebody in fourth wing.
It could have been like I justremember there being a dragon
called tiny and it made me laugh.
I can't remember why, when, inwhat context, um I definitely
don't remember all their names,so well, I'm sure it's not
spelled t-i-n-y, so you probablypronounced it differently, um,

(48:23):
but okay.
So, speaking of the torture,since we're so, we haven't
talked about the fact thatvarish was trying to burn violet
out at one point, and much so.
I think this is my fit.
I'm pretty sure I've done allmy favorite moments.

Speaker 2 (48:43):
When Tern took Solas and just shredded him Literally
the top of my list I was likeget him, get him.
I was so relieved and I don'tknow what it is, but when Tern
goes savage, I dig it, Because.
I'm like these are incredible,magical, mysterious creatures.
You know, like we still don'tknow where the Empyrean stands

(49:06):
on the ward, the wars and allthese other things, like we just
take it for granted thatthey're there and I did love the
few times through the firsthalf of the book where they're.
Like you know, you do notcommand dragons and you would
not be a dragon rider without adragon.
I do like those littlereminders.

(49:27):
So him grabbing Solas, and inmy mind he shook him like a rat,
like a dog, a terrier.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
I know that's not really how it was described on
the page.

Speaker 2 (49:37):
I know that's not how it was described on the page.
I don't care um.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
In my mind that's what he did and it was so
satisfying, so satisfying toread.
Yeah, because if you are.

Speaker 2 (49:49):
I understand that they don't command the dragons,
but if you are bonded to a rider, yeah.
The fact that it's normalizedthat they can just kill cadets,
yeah, it's wild yeah, yep, um,so go tern.

Speaker 1 (50:07):
Yes, also, I guess we haven't talked about this.
And, darna, what's taking solong?
Why do you think it's?

Speaker 2 (50:14):
taking so long.
Why is she still sleeping?
I think she's special.
I do love the fact that she isblack, so I love the fact that
she has big, beautiful blackscales that border on purple.
Um, I loved that description,um, and I I wrote down that.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
So she's black now, so she really is toothless, um
oh, we had a conversation like Ihad pictured her kind of like
toothless, just furry, instead,um, and now she's even black, so
so she is toothless, althoughmy prediction not really a
prediction, but like she's gonnabe bigger than tern I'd like to

(50:51):
think so that would be amazing,because, um, she's not terns
right.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
There are very few black dragons, but they're,
they're biggins from they arebiggins and tern, and sigail,
sigail, yeah uh, so that's howyou say that, um, tern and scale
have both gone on the record,uh, a couple of times and said,
no, we just looked, looked afterher Right?

Speaker 1 (51:16):
And so I'm just curious Because also is she
special?
Was the time-stopping thingultra-powerful?
And obviously that's changing.
We don't know what the signetis going to be Ultimately, but I
didn't even think about thefact that Violet's going to have
two signet powers.

Speaker 2 (51:36):
Yeah, and what the hell does that look like?

Speaker 1 (51:38):
Yeah, we've got a lightning wielder and TBD.

Speaker 2 (51:42):
So I thought that the whole point is that the Feather
Tales I might be misremembering.
I guess I had thought that anyfeather tail can do the time
stop, I don't, or was it specialI?

Speaker 1 (51:57):
think it was just, I thought it was just andarna,
like, like, as if I could haveswore like feather tails could,
like they had power and theycould transfer the power to
their riders.
Um, but it's not the same powerin all of them.
So it's like a signet in thatway, it's like a signet in that
way.
So will her signet relate totime?

(52:18):
Oh my gosh, what if she couldturn back time.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
What if she's a time traveler Like?
What if she's able to go backand see her dad?

Speaker 1 (52:31):
If you're just listening the faces we just made
that's a joint prediction.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
We both get credit okay, we're time.

Speaker 1 (52:38):
We're time traveling demons.
Time, time traveling dragonspretty excited about that'd be
awesome case.
If it's the case, um, I don'tknow.

Speaker 2 (52:48):
Yeah, I'm excited like because she said something
about.
I could have sworn my dad toldme about something.
Now I wish I could remember.
There was something in the lastthree chapters, probably before
the torture she made a commentabout.
I could have sworn my dad hadtold me about X, y or Z.
I'm going to have to go backand look now?

Speaker 1 (53:09):
yeah, I don't know, it's not coming to mind.
So how like are we gonna haveto wait till the end of the book
for her to come back, or is itgonna be like a like we had to
wait for, like, the chapterright after the midpoint for the
sex scene in fourth wing?

Speaker 2 (53:23):
yes, and darna gonna come back, like I would love it
if and darna um finally wakes upin chapter 36, I I would be so
okay with that.
I definitely thought that itwas well done, writing her with
a bitchy teenager voice.
It's just better and Tarynbasically saying it's just

(53:47):
better for everyone if she justsleeps.
That was real teenager vibesand I, I dug it yeah, same, same
it was.

Speaker 1 (53:58):
it was pretty funny.
And also another voice that Ifound funny was violet's drunk
voice.
At one point violet gets drunkand then she's all slurry at
least that's how the uhaudiobook narrator did it and it
was pretty funny.
Another okay, so another momentthat I thought she was so
effing stupid but I guess Iunderstand was when the mender

(54:20):
or the healer Grady no, who wasit who gave her the drink?
Nolan Gave her the drink.
Yeah, I wanted to punch himright in the noggin.

Speaker 2 (54:32):
But also never accept a drink from literally anyone
that you didn't see poured.
So for the first abduction, thesecond, she just blindly drank
and mentioned a weird aftertaste.
I was like, ooh Bad Son of agun, but then she did it again
like three more times.
I'm like stop drinking thingsthat people hand you.

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Yeah, only things that you bring yourself or
people that you trust with yourlife.
But then there's that exceptionshe trusted Nolan with her life
.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
Nolan, I know, I know the other thing about that
which I had.
I've shared all of my top fivesbut, I have a little bit left in
terms of predictions.
So, in that vein, in chapter 25, because I went back and looked
it up, because I'm insane,because it was such a random

(55:27):
moment, I'm like this has tomatter.
I don't even remember what theywere doing in chapter 25,
legitimately I, I don't remember, but it was a hooded scribe
walked by and she looked to see.
It looked to see but shecouldn't see who it was beneath
the hood and she thought it wasstrange, because scribes usually
only come for two reasons andthen she nothings it and it's

(55:50):
never brought up again I've gotgoosebumps because, yeah, what
the hell was that?
I noticed it too, but I was like, okay and then my last
prediction is um, with chapter35, at the end of chapter 35,
throughout chapter 35, um,they're being called for
leadership, leadership's likewe've got to go.

Speaker 1 (56:11):
We've got to go.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
We've got to go.
I am still um holding on towith a death grip.
Uh, that mama soaring gale isgoing to redeem herself, so
somehow she's calling allleadership away to try and give
her daughter a chance to escape.

Speaker 1 (56:32):
Oh, that would be such a relief.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
I don't even know if it would be enough, but like I
mean, honestly like it.

Speaker 1 (56:42):
It goes a long way, right, If she's using her power
like her military rank in orderto save Violet.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
That does quite a bit for me to to redeem her
personally um so that was all my, that was all my bullets, the
hooded scribe, one, though, Iwas particularly proud of
because I'll, if you justmention it in passing, I read so
fast that sometimes yeah, justgoes right over.
Wait a minute, not what are youdoing here?

(57:12):
Who are you?

Speaker 1 (57:14):
okay.
So it sounds like we've coveredour top fives and we've covered
our predictions, and I'vegloated about my correct
prediction, as you should, as Ishould.
Jack walla lives for somereason.
Fucking jack for some reason.
Um, so what we do in everyepisode is pick an MVP, and
we've also started for fourthwing picking follow up like a

(57:39):
runner up MVPs right.
So the runner ups get a half apoint, the MVPs get a point, or
the runner ups get one point andthe MVPs get two points,
doesn't matter, but you get it.
So, jessica, who do you have asyour runner up this episode?

Speaker 2 (57:55):
Okay, we do our jug roll.
My runner up is going to beRhiannon again, just because
she's so damn awesome she isawesome she really is.
I almost gave it up for imogenjust because, uh, she did a lot
more in the first half of thisbook, um, and and acted as like

(58:19):
substitute friend and did it ina very, in a slightly snarky way
, which I can appreciate.
She's like you've got fiveminutes.
Since you're not talking toyour real friends, you've got
five minutes.
Oh, I forgot, I don't careabout that and I really
appreciated that.
I appreciated the tone of itand um, all of that.

Speaker 1 (58:39):
The running montages worked for me, but brianna and
brianna really delivered yeah,yeah, she was a great friend and
I guess we didn't really talkabout like the ptsd of it all,
but that running throughoutviolet's experience, this first
half of the book was veryrealistic.
I think it hit.
And when she kind of likeexplained her feelings to people

(59:01):
, when she finally kind of letthem gush out of her, it felt
really, really real.
And the fact that like shestarted running because she had
witnessed somebody who couldn'trun fast enough get incinerated
or whatever like all of it was,it was really well done.
I thought that's all um because, yeah, since you mentioned
imogen, okay, my runner-up isjessinia.

(59:27):
Okay, our bestie scribe, becausewithout her, nothing.
We don't know about where thevault is, we don't know, you
know, like anything aboutanything.
She's the book getter.
She's also like not toldanybody about Violet's studies
this whole time, so she's a realone and I just really like her.

(59:50):
I love the fact that you can beincredibly important while not
being a fighter.
So big fan of jessenia, andthat look on your face made me
it's making me suspect something.
So let's see if it is what Isuspect jessica, who is your mvp
for this episode?

Speaker 2 (01:00:10):
Well, with a lead up like that.
My MVP is absolutely Yesenia.
I am always loving to meet acharacter whose value is not
derived from their physicalprowess or anything else, and I

(01:00:32):
love the fact that jessinia isintroduced to us in a very
similar light as violet, as,like the archives and the scribe
, lifestyle as a whole is almostmonastic, almost religious, um,
and violet eventually presentedher as well as what you were
saying right About her, herbeing a real one and, uh, being

(01:00:56):
a good standup friend and addingvalue and and being incredible
without having to be like a hero, a dyed in the wool hero, all
of that.
But also then, above and beyondthat, eventually Violet presents
her with information thatreally can rock her world view
and she receives it criticallyand attacks that as a separate

(01:01:21):
problem, with resilience andwith an open mind.
And I thought that that washuge and spoke to the power of
critical thinking and, like youknow, I live in an information
world and what do I?
What do I do when I have toquestion my sources of truth and
what does that mean to me andhow I fit into this cause?

(01:01:42):
So I I totally give it up forjesinia okay, hell yeah, big
jessinia fan this, this bookyeah, how about for you.

Speaker 1 (01:01:53):
Well, since it's not jessinia, um, this one's a funny
one, because I don't think wehave picked dragons yet, but
mine is tarn nice.
No, I think it was partiallybecause of the just absolute yes
moment of him finally takingout like threatening solace and

(01:02:14):
putting um, what's his face?
The mean guy help me perish onhis knees.
That was oh so good Ihighlighted it because anytime
they say on your knees, I knowoh my god I like that shit, um,
so that how he's so likeprotective and funny of violet,

(01:02:34):
like they went on that trek orwhatever over to um to meet the
rebels and make the drop, andthen violet gets this tinge of
jealousy and he's like you hadtwo dragons pick you, she has
none like.
He's just so like practical andprimal in some ways.
I don't know, I just reallyappreciate him.
Not to mention this isn't likehim necessarily, but there's

(01:02:55):
this one moment that I reallylove where violet saw tern and
um, oh my god, uh, zayden'sdragon sigail, sigail um, tern
and sigail walking off togetherand their tails were swishing in
unison, and then she thought itwas really cute.
And it was cute just to likehear it was super cute, so I big

(01:03:17):
time appreciated Taryn, andViolet did some awesome things,
but she also annoyed me a lot,and so she is her own worst
enemy in so many ways which isso relatable.
So I didn't make her my MVPjust because she made me mad,
just as much as she made meholler.
So yeah, that's where I'm atPick Taryn, taryn, my number one

(01:03:38):
.

Speaker 2 (01:03:40):
And I feel good about it.
That is fantastic, yeah, okay,well, I feel like we've done our
top fives, we've done ourpredictions, we've done our MVPs
.
We didn't have any questionssent in.
We did have, like you said,roof Mistress Leah shared some
of her takes, which were awesomeand, honestly, very similar.

(01:04:02):
So I would say, on behalf ofboth of us, invite you again.
If you have any other questionsthat you would like to ask, or
vibes or anything that you'dlike to share with us for the
back half of the book maybeabout our predictions today or
not, please feel free to messageus in our various places and

(01:04:22):
please do it by DM and please bemindful of spoilers where you
can.
But, yeah, we still would loveto hear you.
We're both really excited toget to the rest of this book, uh
, so if you have any questionsfor us, uh, please share them.
So with that, we will be goinginto the back half of this book.

(01:04:43):
We will be reading from chapter36 onward and we will be doing
dropping that recording to youfor September 2nd, so that'll be
Labor Day weekend, ish.
So, yeah, we look forward tohearing from you.
I want to, you know, wrap us upby saying thank you so much for

(01:05:05):
tuning into our fifth episode ofseason five of but are there
dragons brought to you by yourhost, jessica Sadai, and Critter
XD?
Please don't forget to followus at but Are there Dragons on
YouTube, instagram and TikTokand but Dragons Pod?
Just one.
T on X.
You can also find your host onsocial media as Critter XD and

(01:05:28):
Shelf Indulgence.
That's it for us today.
Thank you so much.
We will see you on September2nd with our wrap up of Iron
Flame Bye.