September 2, 2025 • 60 mins
Jess and Kritter are back together again to discuss the second half of Iron Flame by Rebecca Yarros, book 2 in her Empyrean series, and thoughts on the series so far!
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello and welcome to, but Are there Dragons, a
podcast where two friends pick abook at least one of them
hasn't read and talk about it?
I'm your host, jess, and I'myour host, critter, and we are
here to talk about the secondhalf of Iron Flame and we're
pretty excited.
How are you doing tonight,critter?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
you doing tonight, critter?
Oh, doing pretty good.
You may notice that I am in aslightly different angle than
before and that's because mysetup is about half taken down
because I'm moving next week.
So we are in a weird.
I'm on my laptop, not mydesktop.
I'm using a different mic, it'sall.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
It's all different, so you know but in your usual
fashion it looks flawless, sowell done.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I appreciate it I did get my hair done this morning,
so you know we're feeling fresh,even if we're a little
disheveled on the inside.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm good.
We are cruising into Labor Dayweekend, which means the summer
has passed me by, and eventhough we've done a lot of
really cool things, I can'tbelieve September is almost here
.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, especially because that is the baby
dragon's birth month.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I know.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So he will be a year old.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
He will slide into toddlerdom.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I know, and he's already like standing and
cruising along furniture and hetook a couple little tiny baby
stutter steps.
Today I'm not counting it aswalking yet, because I want it
to be a firm like step step.
Not like step, step, step.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I mean you don't?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh no, I love that metric because I was like he
took two once and I was like weall know I love that metric
because I was like he took twoonce and I, or, like you know,
one, and then a stutter step andI was like I I think that every
set of parents make their own,like the points are made up,
kind of thing, and I get it, I.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I, when I was in those shoes, I had said three
because I knew that, like, oh,maybe it was an accident, no, it
was on purpose.
That was my mindset.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
No, I love that metric.
I've been wondering what themetric is and I'm going to go
ahead and resonate with that one.
I'm still not sure what themetric is for first words,
because he has absolutely lookedat me and unpropted, been like
mama, you know what I mean.
And so I'm like but he's donethe same for Mr Critter and he
(02:27):
you know what I mean, and so I'mlike, uh, but he's done the
same for mr critter and he says,oh, you're gonna love this,
okay, and friends of the podcastare gonna love this.
He has a crocheted dragon.
That's our bestie jessica, andmr jessica got him for christmas
and now he has taken two.
We go what's this?
Is it a dragon?
(02:47):
And he goes which to me that'sso close.
So like his first word might bedragon, which I think would be
so fun.
I mean obviously assuming we'renot going to count the mamas
and the daddas that keep gettingthrown around.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
We have to count the mamas and the daddas that keep
getting thrown around.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
But you can't be sure , because like, that's like data
has been in his vernacular,data has been in his vocabulary
for months, like everything wasdata at the beginning, because
that's the only thing he couldsay, and now he's got a broader
vocab and so it's like sometimeshe'll look at me and say data,
right, which is like no.
But then sometimes he looks atme and, and so it's like
sometimes he'll look at me andsay Dada, right, which is like
(03:25):
no.
But then sometimes he looks atme and says Mama, and it's like
yes, you know.
So it's unclear.
It's unclear if he knows.
Yet you know what I mean.
But the dragon is like if youstart with a D and have a G in
the middle that feels prettydeliberate.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
End sound at the end.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Almost and almost ends down at the end Almost.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, so he hasn't done it unprompted yet, but I'm
doing my best to be like what'sthat I'm so excited that the
dragons is even catchingattention, because I was
somebody who had a young one whohad too many stuffies and, you
know, you never knew which onehe was going to light.
So the fact that he even knowsthat exists makes my little
heart happy, um yeah, he lovesit.
(04:06):
And yeah, like ride that dragontheme.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Dig it.
I'm working on it.
I'm working on it really hard.
So, anyways, that's where we'reat.
Personally, we're going to talkabout iron flame, right?
Yeah, we are.
Uh, we didn't mention IronFlame by Rebecca Yaros, and this
section of Iron Flame is thesecond half, which I believe
started with chapter 36.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
36 or 37.
So, completely by accident, wesplit it based on what was
roughly half the book 36.
So 36.
So that means that part two ofthe book started at chapter 37,
which we didn't know when wearbitrarily broke up the book.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I vaguely recall at thebeginning or at the end maybe,
of our last discussion for thefirst half of Iron Flame, we
were collectively complainingabout a couple of things One,
the fact that Zayden hadn't yetsaid I love you, because
obviously he loved her, and twowas that andarna was still
(05:11):
asleep, and almost immediatelylo and behold that chapter, the
first chapter we read old zaydenryerson finally confesses his
love, which took you long enough, satan.
How'd you feel when thathappened?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Uh, I was like, okay, well, it's about damn time,
yeah, as Lizzo says.
Um, yeah, no, both of thosethings.
And I, uh, honestly, I readthat the night that we recorded
that episode, so I was like,heck, yes, thank you, just
needed to get it out of the way,you guys?
(05:47):
Um, literally, but I hadalready been so tickled because
we had talked about you know,this is a couple books in a row
for us of choosing reallyinteresting cliffhanger, like
spots completely at randomnailed it.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I think we're really talented.
We have a talent.
Um, I think, honestly, probablymy favorite part about Zayden
finally saying I love you it wasnot that he finally said it
because, like duh, obviouslythat was coming, but, um, it was
way, way later when Dave saidsomething along the lines of he
asked Violet like do you reallylove him?
Because I heard his confessionand it basically made me fall in
(06:25):
love.
Yes, I thought that washilarious, and usually I don't
like Dave, but that made melaugh.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So good to know we're still calling him Dave.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I was wondering how you stood at the end of the book
, I mean okay, fine, like I madethe choice, like should we
finally start calling him DaneBecause we're on his?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
side.
I don't know, we don't have to,we don't have to rush it we can
flip-flop whatever we'refeeling in the moment yes, I
will say that his redemptionthrough this book, as you had
kind of foretold, has gonepretty well.
Um, as far as redemption goesfor any of these characters, so
(07:07):
far he's in the lead.
You know there was a certainother character I was hoping
would have a little bit more ofa redemption art and it was not
enough for me so let's talkabout it, then you're obviously
talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Violet's mom I'm obviously talking about violet's
mom.
Not enough for you mama soaringgale.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
No, because I, let's be clear her sacrifice, her
sacrifice was definitelymeaningful, um, and I'm very
relatable again as a mom, like Ican understand that.
I think that people makeoffhand comments about I step in
front of a moving vehicle, Itake a bullet, like I.
(07:50):
I think that at a certain pointyou realize, oh, they say that
stuff because it's real.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Like it's real now.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, I totally know it now um and it's different
from the inside, but not to takeaway from her sacrifice.
But I still don't think I wasreally hoping for some
amelioration.
I was.
I was hoping for someredemption towards her motives
and I don't think that they'rethere.
I think that she, she knewabout the danger and she pushed
(08:22):
her children into it anyways,and she pushed them into it
Without all of the informationthat they needed.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Alright, so you don't buy the.
She thought Violet was safer Inthe writer's quadrant.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
No, I don't.
I mean, I buy that.
That was what she told herselfokay, I buy that that's what she
told herself and I understandthe threat that markham posed as
somebody who is going toperpetuate the lie.
And, and even with that, um, Iwould not have sacrificed my
(09:05):
children to the machinations ofVazquez.
I would not.
My children would not be partof that military regime.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Okay, so what would you do with your children?
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
You know I'm sitting here with all of the confidence
of a person who does not have tomake that choice but and I
don't feel like they got intoyou know, when she knew it, how
she knew it were they alreadymarried?
Did they already have kids, andall of that?
I just feel like at some pointshe rose to power, she had to be
in the know, and at any pointin there there, don't you think
(09:47):
you could have made a differentchoice for your children?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
huh, I guess in my mind and correct me if I'm wrong
, but I thought, like onconscription day you had to be
in something, either infantry orthe writer's quadrant or the
scribes.
I thought that was like I.
I didn't think it was likegetting enlisted in the military
(10:11):
, I thought it was kind of likeno, this is I think it was for
the rebels.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I don't know that it was required okay, so there are
like normies.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
There are non-scribe military.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Well, now I'm.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Maybe I'm being a real jerk, but I was like no, I
mean it would make sense Likethere has to be more Like
everybody's children has to gointo the military Everybody's
children.
I mean honestly for this society, it wouldn't surprise me I
hadn't really thought it through.
I assume that on conscriptionday, everyone because like
(10:47):
didn't it?
Say like no, am I okay?
I think I'm remembering thisright, that like the only people
, the only no okay.
Now I'm wondering it's like youtake the tests right and then
like, whatever you qualify for,you essentially get like drafted
into it, but you can elect todo the writer's quadrant right
the writers is not mandatory foranybody but the rebels children
(11:09):
right.
And so then the question is isthat just for people who go into
the military or is it foreveryone?
But again, like there has to be, there have to be people who
are in the military.
That would make sense if theyall were right.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So, anyways, I guess that's a whole in my knowledge
and I think that's where my mindyou know, I'm coming from my
high horse over here and I getit about this make a new place.
But I'm like I I just thinkthat whatever she knew when she
knew it, I would have, I wouldlike to think that she would
have made better choices for herkids.
Okay, so that all three of themgo through as a machinery.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Okay, yeah, I mean, I guess if there was another way,
the non-military, non-scribes,non-infantry, non-writer way,
then yeah, that would have beenthe choice.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
If it is like you're painting it, which honestly
hadn't occurred to me that therewouldn't be a civilian part of
the population, Because Iunderstand the pressure.
Like you're in the military,your children should be in the
military.
I do understand thatperspective.
But if everybody's kids has todo one or the other, then it
(12:19):
gets grayer, then it getsmurkier, because in the infantry
infantry are fodder you knowthe infantry are, or fodder.
You know the infantry aredefinitely perfect portrayed as
red shirts yes, exactly, um.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So then it's a choice between the scribes and the and
the flyers um the riders, um,yeah, but once the scrib to me
the scribe's place wasn't a safeplace then yeah, she basically
thought because violet was likethe prodigy, the protege,
(12:53):
whatever that she was inevitablygoing to find out the secret
and she was going to rageagainst the machine.
Which, surprise, that's exactlywhat she did.
Yeah, um, but had she gonethrough the writer's quadrant,
not attached at the hip toZayden, without falling in love
with him, then she never wouldhave found out.
She would have been just likeMeera, she would have just gone
(13:15):
off into the world and had justas much of a chance as anybody
else.
So, I don't know, I have todisagree.
I forgave General Sorengale.
I really did.
Also like the deal that shestruck was aid to protect Violet
, right, he's one of the onlypeople who had enough power
amidst the rebels to stopeveryone else from hurting
(13:40):
Violet, right?
And he did exactly that.
So, so the general not only puther in the writer's quadrant,
which she allegedly thought wassafer, but then added a
safeguard over top of that.
Um, not to mention she gaveviolet the book, right, and and
then this, the huge giantsacrifice at the end.
(14:00):
So I know I've been a hater,I've been drinking the haterade
for general sorghill this wholetime, but this second half of
iron flame just completelyabsolved her for me.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
So I will say it was a huge payoff, like it was great
to read.
So even though I was not, Ididn't really necessarily felt
like it was enough to exonerateher.
From a reading perspective,from a reader's perspective, I
loved the payoff of it.
I thought that it was highstakes and a great way to end,
you know, a middle book for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, it was her sacrifice at the end was super
powerful and the way they allreacted to it.
And, honestly, like, I have mycomplaints about the audiobook
narrator.
Like I feel like she does agood job overall, but there are
certain sentences where she likeemphasizes the wrong word.
You know what I mean.
Like it's kind of hard todescribe, but like like, for
example, whenever um they metwith, can't remember who they
(14:56):
met with.
Uh, like whenever violet's momwas there.
Was it markham?
Who the hell was it that the j?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Melgren.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, okay, so Melgren was there and then the
guy with the rebels or whateverwas there and they were like
trading bars or whatever, andhe's like, oh, melgren was like,
oh, I thought you might not behere, and the guy responded and
he was like, well, I hoped yoube or something.
(15:26):
It was like the way she, likeyou know, like instead of being
like you would be, her cadencewas just wrong and I was like it
took me out and she's done thata few times.
But, um, some of the, some ofthe moments that have been like
really emotional, she reallynailed and she nailed that like
violent, reacting to her mom,mira, um, brennan, all of them
(15:47):
Like she did a really good jobthere.
So it it hit, you know it hithard, it hit, it hit good yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, I, um I definitely overall really liked
this book more than the firstbook.
Same, um, I do feel like I andagain it's probably a mixture,
but I think the writing hasadvanced some and I think the
characters have advanced some,so I think there's just an
(16:17):
overall better readingexperience for me this time
around.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I agree, I will say so I've.
I read this book likeimmediately when we recorded the
last episode.
I read it like right away, andthen I was like, oh my gosh, I
finished so quickly.
I'm going to forget everythingthat I read by the time we have
this recording.
So I started it over a little,like a little faster, you know
like 1.75, maybe two times speed, whatever and I finished it
(16:48):
immediately.
It was so fast and so it hadbeen like I have had this half
of this book finished twice forover a week and a half, and so
just today I had it going onlike three times speed and I
almost made it all the waythrough.
I almost made it all the waythrough.
So it's very fresh, thankfully.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
The problem is is now I know just how fast that is.
So, for anybody who doesn'tknow, I have always been a
tactile reader, whether it's aphysical book or a Kindle.
I have never tried to do audio,and I am now trying to do audio
with my gap book at the behestof mr jessica.
Dungeon crawler, carl is hisnew favorite drug, um, and so
(17:30):
he's like you have to try it.
You have to try it, audiobookstyle.
I work from home uh, I don't,and but I can't listen while I
work because my job requires meto do cognitive things.
I can't sure same yeah, so I'mtrying to manifest times to
listen to audio book.
All of that aside, there's waytoo much information.
I know that I can only live in1.2 to 1.5 for net new
(17:57):
information, because anythingfaster and I don't think you're
speaking English anymore, it'sall going by and that's dungeon
crawler, carl, like that's.
You know it's classified as litrpg, so it's, it's light, it's
light stuff okay, I need todouble check to see how fast.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Okay.
So for my most recent todayspeed read, I had it at 2.9, and
that is about as fast as youcan get it with this narrator
without it literally beinggibberish, and the only way I
could swing it was I've read ittwice and so I knew what I was
listening to.
You know what I mean.
Like it wasn't new information.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I'm just so new to it that a lot of times you talk
about how fast you listen to ittoo, and we talk about it in the
discord and you guys aretalking about like, yeah, yeah,
yeah, I'm a fast reader too.
Now I can, now I know it, now Ifeel it.
Um, because I'm like 1.2.
I started at one I was like, ohgosh, no, this is too slow, way
(18:56):
too slow for me.
Uh, you're stopping to breatheand stuff.
Quit it.
Um so, but anything more than1.5 and I nothing okay, that's
fair, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I don't even know what I was trying to lead up to
when I said that I've reread itthat many times, but anyways,
it's fresh again, which I'mexcited about, and uh, yeah, um,
oh, oh, I now.
Now I know what.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I was going to say Back on track.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
So during my reread, so the first time I read the
whole thing like I don't skipanything, whatever.
Second time I didn't skipanything either.
This time I did choose to skipthe sex scenes Because it's just
to me, like you said, thewriting is better.
I agree that it is, but likethose to me do not add any value
(19:47):
and I think it's just the typeof stuff that I like to read.
Like I guess I am just not likethis kind of romanticity, like
these.
I don't know if I don't know ifother kind of sex scenes would
appeal to me, but I just findthem to be very repetitive in
some ways, I don't know, and uh,and just kind of like they're
taking up time that could bespent with the plot.
(20:09):
I don't know, I don't know.
Um, that's where I'm at, uh.
So yeah, other than the sexscenes, though, like you know,
it's a, it's a fun, I mean withthem even.
It's a fun story and it was asuperior story to the first book
in my opinion.
I think I gave it like a solidfour stars on Goodreads.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Now that I'm thinking , If book one had been this
caliber, it would have been anautomatic.
Yes, you know how we were onthe fence when we got done with
book one and we weren't sure howwe felt.
I think that if book one was acomparable read to how I felt at
the end of this book, it wouldhave been a yeah, we're square,
(20:55):
go, let's keep going.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Definitely going.
Yeah, I'm right there with you.
Yeah, I gave it four starsbecause it's a solid read.
That's a is that a catholicschool?
B not bad at all.
Yeah, totally, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what else happened?
Um, okay, so we had like, wegot introduced to cat though we
(21:19):
got introduced to her beforeearlier, but we really got
introduced.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
We really got to see some backstory on zayden um and
and this takaris person who isher dad, and that that the
arrangement that was betweenthem, and it was fascinating.
I thought that that was reallyinteresting.
I liked all of that.
I liked that this book had alot of well.
(21:46):
This is how the other halflived, both with the rebellion
side and with the flyer side.
I liked that contrastingviewpoint.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
You know, the Flyers have a lot going for them, Like
the fact that they think thewriter's quadrant is so absurdly
brutal.
I think it's so spot on.
Like thank God people havesense in this universe.
Like, yeah, no, we don't dieand wash up on the shore, we
just join a different branch ofthe military.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
So did you have not to keep comparing, comparing to
other media, but do you keephaving wheel of time flashbacks?
So I had.
So between the talks about theweaving for the runes and okay,
that, yes, that did, and theflyers, you know jumping off a
cliff into water um no bigthrowbacks to wheel of time for
(22:44):
me okay, yeah, the from the show.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I didn't put those, I didn't put that together at all
.
That to me reminded, I guessnow just thinking about it, it
didn't remind me at the time,but it kind of reminds me of, uh
, like avatar oh, sure, yep youknow, with those like flying
birds and avatar one or what.
They're not birds, whateverthey are, I don't know what they
are.
That kind of evokes that image.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
That's probably more comparable.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Maybe, maybe a little bit.
So they go to this place that'sgot the ornamental grass and
cat and apparently a oh my god,I lost what they're called the
sorcerer guys evil people, thankyou, wow.
It's, uh, it's a really goodday for me right now, today.
(23:32):
Um, a venom in a chest yeah, ina floating test were you
shocked.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I was shocked, um again, I, I'm not, I'm not the
thinker in the family, I'm notthe one going, going.
Oh, it's going to be this andit's going to be this.
That's Mr Jessica.
He's the one who's like I thinkit's going to be this, this,
this and this.
When we get done recording anepisode, he's like so what do
you think is going to happennext?
I'm like, I don't know, I'mjust along for the ride.
(23:59):
Yeah, just chilling.
Just yeah, just chilling.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Just chilling.
I do love being right aboutpredictions.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I do, but they have to, like they happen to me.
I don't manifest them.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yes, amen, same.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So yeah, the Venom in the chest was wild, just the
floating chest.
The concept of the floatingchest was kind of a very neat
thing.
Concept, uh, because obviouslywe have magic in this world, uh,
but that's, that's differentthat's pretty, pretty bizarre,
um, it was.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I love how he was like no, zayden can't come down
with you, but then miras likeeff it, I'm going, and they just
let her, you know, whatever.
Um, although I guess he wouldbe happy to get rid of as many
sword gills as possible.
So maybe that was why, um, butyeah, violet just kind of like
nailed it once again.
She did a.
Really, she brained it up,right, like in the same way that
(25:00):
she, whenever the um wyvernshowed up when they were scaling
that cliff, right, she, sheuses that brain of hers and just
absolutely slays.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I think that every time she's had a problem in
front of her so when they werescaling the cliffs with the
flyers, when they brought thisSven in, and then later on in
this book every time she's hadto come up with a unique
solution.
Those are payoffs that I'vereally like.
I made a note about that, thatI those are things that I really
liked about this book, that Ifeel like the writer did a great
(25:34):
job giving us unique solutionsand even just when we're reading
them even though action's notalways necessarily a thing that
draws me like combat's notnecessarily my thing draws me
like combat's not necessarily mything um, she's always got my
attention.
(25:54):
She's doing a really good jobwith those scenes and giving her
really, uh, tasty solutions.
I don't know any other way todescribe it no, it's true, it's.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
It's like it's not just you know who's got the
bigger sword.
Right, it's who's, in her case,who's got bigger brain, which
is a refreshing way to read afight scene.
Yeah, because that's not alwayswhat you get.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
We had some good sibling energy, and so, as an
only child, I will ask you onceagain how do you feel the
sibling dynamics went?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Wait, you're an only child.
I'm an only child.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Okay, uh, wait, you're an only child, I'm an
only child, okay, so I can'tspeak to it.
Um, but we finally get themoment where mira knows that
brennan's alive and as an onlychild.
I'm like that tracks.
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
no 100.
That's how I would have reactedas well.
Obviously she was happy, butthen also pissed, and I would
have been the same.
I think the sibling dynamic waskind of perfect, honestly, and
you know, what's funny actuallyis I have an older brother and a
younger sister, oh yeah, and soit is kind of the same, I guess
(27:02):
, as the soaring gales, and yeahthat makes me mira, then, that
makes me Mira.
Yeah, no, I'm not Violet.
I mean, I guess I'd like insome ways, in some ways I would
be kind of Violety.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
But I can see you as a badass captain well, that's
what I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Like I'm a little, probably more physical than
Violet, you know, like I'vealways been, like, uh, like an
athlete, you know, violet makesup for her shortcomings.
I was going to say I feel likeViolet's physical capability has
advanced.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
through the book there were some things she still
mentions that's going to hurt,or she braces to take the hit or
whatever.
But I do feel like there was ascene talking about her just
running for all.
She's got to try and make it tothe ward stone and she actually
(27:55):
landed the whatever.
The running dismount is whereyou basically yeah, yeah.
It's like a running stop off ofa moving dragon.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Something like that.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
So I think the sword swing.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yes, I think her physicality has advanced and I
feel like she's being portrayedthat way, but not to a point
that makes it like, oh, she'sjust all of a sudden OP.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, like physically dangerous.
She's just very skilled.
She's got skills now which makeher dangerous, like in the
fight against Kat right, likeshe wasn't bigger than Kat.
Kat had like five inches on heror something, I think.
Like they said Kat was biggerthan her and yet she won the
fight because of her skill andrage and all kinds of stuff.
(28:49):
How did you feel about thatconfrontation?
By the way?
Speaker 1 (28:55):
It was good.
I thought that it had to happen.
I thought that it was verysatisfying for it to happen on
the page and get it out of theway.
Also for Kat to be somebody whocan inflame people's emotions.
I thought that that was aninteresting power for her to
(29:15):
wield.
I also liked the fact that theauthor decided to say you know
later, while Zayden and Violetare talking about what happened
with Kat and really stokingViolet's insecurities, that it
couldn't happen if herinsecurities didn't exist.
And I was like I'm really gladthat that is the way you chose
(29:36):
to portray that, because youknow you can't create an emotion
that doesn't exist.
So I found that all to be verysatisfying.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, I'm torn about that scene personally Because
when I look back on it and whatI remember about it, it's giving
catfight and I'm wonderingbecause would I feel that way if
it was two guys?
You know what I mean.
And I think if it were two guysthen I would assume it's a dick
(30:15):
measuring contest and but withthe two girls, to me it's giving
cat fight and I don't knowbecause, like the way that
violet gets so riled up becauseof cat to be fair, like it's not
her fault but she gets superriled up and like her internal
dialogue is just this, like youknow what I mean, it kind of
reminds me of mean girls.
The regina george scene, whereit's like you know what I mean.
It kind of reminds me of MeanGirls.
The Regina George scene, whereit's like you know what people
say about you.
They say you're a homeschooljungle freak who's a less hot
version of me.
That's kind of what I'm gettingfrom that it's fair and it's
(30:42):
not completely fair again,because it's a military school.
Sparring is very common and partof the practice and also it was
very necessary.
But did it do anything betweenViolet and Kat?
It didn't resolve anything.
They hated each other even moreafter that.
So yeah, I'm back and forth onit.
(31:03):
It was fun to see Violet almostkill her.
Good Get it.
But at the same time I don'tlove to see my main characters
just completely lose control,even if it's not their fault.
Well and does it propel thestory?
Yeah, yeah, and I mean I guessthe conversation that she had
(31:27):
with Zayden after the fact wasthe more satisfying part of all
of it, I think, yeah, that's avalid point.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I hadn't really thought about it, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But you know the fact that he tried to prove himself.
Obviously I've never been on myknees for her, she's never been
on this throne, all that stuffjust kind of boosting Violet up.
I was like, oh, that's nice.
But also I wish for her.
She's never been on this throne, all that stuff just kind of
like boosting violet up.
I was like, oh, that's nice.
But also like I wish you didn'tneed that.
I wish you would just be moreconfident.
But obviously I'm not sayingI'm immune to jealousy.
(31:59):
Like it's a hard emotion thatpeople face all the time, so
it's totally understandable well, and jealousy and insecurity
beat off of each other in suchgnarly ways.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
True true, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
And she's still young , very young you know, not going
to be as sure in herself as,say, you know us wizened women.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Some of us are more wizened than others, but anyways
, yeah so excellent points.
I think we had some reallykiller dragon fights too.
If I can pivot for just asecond, 100%.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, let's pivot.
Yeah, what was your favoritedragon fight?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I mean it's got to be my girl, indarna.
Okay in the cave.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yes, yes, yes, that's what I was.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I love that fight so I mean she's her.
Her in that scene is likenumber two on my top five
moments on this list.
She did she was incredible.
So she has taken over, I feellike the bratty teenager vibes
have kind of segued from violetto andarna and but even andarna
is kind of moving through themat a, at a reasonable clip, so
(33:17):
it's great.
Um, she still, you know, got alittle extra sass.
Um, but yeah, I, I, really I.
Last book it was like tyrondoing a lot of not a lot, but,
you know, when he had reallykind of vicious moments where he
took the other dragon by thethroat or whatever, I was like,
(33:37):
oh yeah, excellent reminder thatthese are dangerous creatures,
and so, and Darna taking thespotlight for me for this book
in that, way.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, she that was.
It was a great scene.
She like protected them all,shielded them with her body
Taryn couldn't get to them, soit was all up to her and then
she killed him.
She killed Solas Like slay,literally, literally.
It was so satisfying to me,right, and that scene was so
good because it was like it feltclaustrophobic, it felt it did
(34:11):
like you felt hot, you couldfeel the fire, right.
It was like it was.
And uh, and violet protected,cat and every in every and um,
oh my gosh, what's her name?
Liam's sister manifested hersignet Sloane, sloane, yeah, and
so all of that and the factthat she was like I'm not a Am I
(34:33):
a Venon.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I look back at that now, and I'm like there were so
many signs pointing to Venon.
Where was I?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, totally fair reaction, because she didn't
know what siphoning was.
So that was also up there in mytop scenes Because, again, I
don't usually like fight scenes,but that one was just very
unique, satisfying and visceraland it starred our girl, andarda
.
Speaking of Andarda, oh, goahead.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Oh, just to cap that off, that she was just so I will
be where I need to be, you know, Just get it girl yeah yeah to
be.
You know, just get it girl.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, let's keeptalking about Indarna, right?
Because the twist of the bookis that she's her own breed,
she's her own type of dragon,which, honestly, now that I
reread the book three times Ireread the second half should
have been obvious.
You know, every time Violet sawher, it was like, oh, she's
actually purple.
Obvious, you know, every timeViolet saw her it was like, oh,
she's actually purple today.
(35:30):
You know, like she's got that.
Why does she look like that?
Like like when is she going tostart looking more like tear,
like I should have noticed.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
I didn't notice.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Did you?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
No, no, even though, like her, her, no, even though,
like her, her, her scales are soblack they look purple, purple
in the light, or whatever I waslike oh, I'd love that.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
That sounds beautiful , you know, like lovely whoosh
right over the head yeah,violence, like oh, probably
because she's an adolescent, Iwas like totally, let's move on.
Um, but then I also the book,the like.
Every time she read the likethe six and the one combined, I
was like what do they mean bythe one combined?
That's her right, because she'sall the colors.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
That's all I can think of is that she's all of
the bloodlines, Because they'reall bloodlines, right?
The whole point is that eachcolor traces a different
bloodline.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, I guess.
Except for that they didn'tknow what color Andarna was
going to be, even though atleast Tern, I thought, knew who
her parents were.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Well, and I feel like he but.
Andarna's just sleeping a longtime waiting for Violet to come
along.
I remember that part from theread, but I mean Taryn's pretty
old so he probably still doesknow who her parents are.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Maybe I might have been misremembering.
I might have remembered thatthe elders knew, Because the
elders also knew about her breedfrom the get-go.
When taryn didn't right, that'swhat they said I think so yeah,
I think so too I haven'tlearned a lot about the empyrean
yeah, I mean, it's kind ofwhatever I pick up as I'm
(37:23):
reading, which isn't always thatmuch, um, but but yeah, but
then the, the big the.
The thing that jessenia came upwith was what, instead of six,
it was seven.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Right, that was the thing yes, oh yeah, but I don't
think I have that highlighted umit's okay.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
It's okay because, like in now that I'm like okay,
so instead of six and the onecombined, it was seven and the
one combined, but that, but thenthat would mean Indarna is part
of the seven but then also theone, or not.
I don't know.
If somebody knows what thehell's going on with that
prophecy for that rule book orthat guidebook, let me know
Describe it in detail.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
But only let Critter know Don't tell me, I'll wait
and find out when I read it.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Oh wait, we in detail , but only let critter know,
don't tell me, I'll wait andfind out when I read it.
Oh wait, we did read it, though, that's.
That's what happened.
This book yeah, but I I'massuming there's more to come in
the next book oh okay, I guessall I want to know is based on
the rule book or based on theguidebook, which I believe said
the seven and the one combined.
Is Andarna the one, or is sheone of the seven and the one
(38:30):
combined is just the ward stone?
I don't know.
That's all I want to know,which I feel like is kind of
what happened in the book.
Yeah, you can just.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I couldn't do the ward stone.
So who was okay?
Yep, I got confused.
I got really confused.
Uh, because violet?
Because it was the six versusthe seven, and just then you
found it because that had to dowith how many runes they had
when they were bolstering orsetting up to, like, imbue the
(39:07):
ward stone, what?
Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
now I'm gonna, I'm gonna back away you might be
right, you might be right, Idon't remember um, I'm gonna go
back and read it again okay.
Well, that's see, isn't itembarrassing?
Technically?
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I didn't get to the end, so I've only read that part
twice I was more interested inwhat was happening with Violet
and her mom, and then Zayden.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I didn't give a shit about the Wardstone at that
point.
Yeah, oh.
But speaking of the Wardstone,right, okay.
So another twist Mm-hmm.
F-ing.
What's-his-face was a VenonJack, jack Barlow.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
F-ing Jack Barlow.
F'ing Jack Barlow.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
F'ing Jack Barlow and killing his dragon.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
I was so personally offended by that.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
I will say that was in one of my top scenes because
of how horrifying it was.
It was shocking and horrifying.
And this book, you know it'sgood, it's fun, fun, but it's
not always gonna get hugeemotions out of me.
But that scene I was like what?
Yeah, like it blew my mind.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
That scene was wild what you were saying, I was like
, oh so his eyes have beenbloodshot like this whole time,
and okay, yeah, no, it was.
You know, it was enough of areveal, because obviously we
left the last episode with youknow, tbd on, you know is jack
really reformed, and I thoughtthe big deal was that they were
(40:44):
just trying, you know, theybrought him back from the dead,
um, not that they were trying tocure his venin status, um, so
know, the fact that he turns outto be a Venon is a lot less
alarming than the fact that he'swilling to sacrifice his own
dragon, which is just yeah, wehate him.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
So he can be a Venon.
That's fine, although the factthat Venon can operate in the
wards is a discovery that Ididn't love, although I guess
it's not now after the end ofthe book, kind it's kind of a
good thing, right?
Yeah, like we don't want zaydento die because he's in the
(41:25):
wards we don't think so.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Um, yeah, and zayden going to talk to jack barlow.
You know that's a strong, so Ihad to.
I got about halfway through thelast chapter and again had to
go back and go right.
This chapter is from Zayden'sperspective.
I forgot again.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Mm-hmm, uh yeah, that was a surprise.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Where were?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
you at, with Zayden becoming a Venon.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
I was first off, you know, tipping my hat to Rebecca
Yarris.
I was like that's a killer.
Ending to a subsequent book,like well done.
And even before I finishedreading that chapter, I'm like
he must have thought he had noother choice.
And then the other part of mybrain, the quieter part of my
brain, is going that stilldoesn't make it okay or less
(42:29):
scary.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, I mean, violet was still like sleeping with him
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yes, he woke up in bed next to her.
I was like I think I found thatpart more alarming than the
Venom reveal.
Honestly, I was like so we'rehearing, we're seeing his
perspective on how that fightended.
And then we just got dot dotdot.
He wakes up in the middle ofthe night, leaves bed and goes
to talk to you know, effing JackBartlow.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, I guess I don't know enough about what happens
when you become a Venant, right,because they're like, oh, it's
these evil people who reach forpower that they shouldn't have
access to.
But we got his perspective.
He reached for that powerbecause he was backed into a
corner and he felt like he hadto right.
So it wasn't like evil motiveRight a corner and he felt like
(43:17):
he had to right.
So it wasn't like evil motive,right.
Um.
So does it fundamentally changeyour soul when you become a
venin or not?
And so you know that's gonnahave to get answered in the
future, and my biggest questionis either it's going to be fine,
like you can still be a goodperson while being a Venon and
(43:37):
probably like really freakingpowerful, or they're going to
find a cure, because I feel likeZayden can't just be a problem.
I don't know.
I don't know, maybe she'll killhim.
Wouldn't that be something?
Speaker 1 (43:53):
That would be something I don't know.
I don't know, maybe she'll killhim.
Wouldn't that be something?
That would be something I?
I I want Zayden to be okay, butpart of me is, like, does
Zayden have to be the sacrifice?
So there are a couple ofcomments that have been made
about how Zayden's notinherently good.
Um and and um, I would have tolike actually go into my kindle
(44:17):
to find the sections that I'mthinking of.
But people have been like it'snot, he's not making benevolent
choices, he's making choicesbecause they're the choices you
want him to make, talking aboutthe power struggle between them,
because you know, if any one ofthem dies that are bonded to
each other, it endangers theother.
(44:38):
Um, and so there were a couplepieces of that.
One is, I had highlighted, I'mnot powerful just because he
loves me, which is somethingthat violet was thinking, which
I found to be very kind oflamenting and sad, and I can
like, oh, that makes me sad.
I would feel sad too.
Um, then other people that he,she talked to, um in Aredia, I
(45:02):
think, saying you know, likehe's not a benevolent person by
nature, like he's not makingthese choices for the greater
good.
He's making these choices,because you know he's following
your direction or whatever, um,and that just kind of stuck with
me and so I'm like I don't wantzayden to be problematic, but I
don't know how surprised Iwould be if he becomes
(45:24):
problematic yeah, I guess Idon't really know the formula
for these like romanticist books, but how wild would it be if
dave was endgame that that feelslike a switcheroo.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
It would be huge.
I've read Romantic City and I'mnot going to say what, where
things get switched up, but it'susually pretty early.
Two books in, she's stillhelplessly, hopelessly in love
with him, even though he's aVenon.
So he would have to die, Iwould think, or just become
(45:57):
objectively evil.
But man, that would be a hugeswitch.
Flipped like it would be damn.
It'd be a major whiplash forthe reader, which you know what
it could.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Be fun, like I like emotional reactions, I don't
know yeah, there was a commentmade in there, um, when they got
to a point where they wereadmitting how they feel about
each other, about how, uh, youknow, even though I love you, if
we can't find a way to do thisin a healthy way, I'll still
walk away yeah um, so we'll see.
(46:32):
We'll see if that goes anywhere.
But those were just things thatkind of stuck with me through
this read about Zayden build up.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
What could it possibly be?
This is, you know, and in him,you know, how long does it take
someone to fall out of love likea lot of it was just like come
on, guys, this is like I feellike, when explained, it's not
that devastating of a signet asthey made it out to be in in my
opinion.
Like he can't read thoughts, hecan read intentions and he,
according to him, he's only doneit to her a few times, it
(47:20):
mostly unintentionally, you know, like I don't know she like the
whole pearl clutching aboutthat signet to me was kind of
overdone.
How did you feel about it?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
um, I also felt it was dramaticized.
Uh, I also felt, though, thatthat instructor walking out and,
you know, essentially breakingthat kid's neck was super
dramatic, yeah.
So I'm not quite sure whyintention sensing, I'm not quite
sure I'm aligned with them andhow they view this signet.
(47:51):
If Dane, if Dave, can see yourmemories, how is that less
invasive?
Speaker 2 (48:04):
than zayden, being able to sense your intentions
and he doesn't even have totouch you he doesn't even have
to touch you yeah, well, and hedid say like I felt like dave
when I was doing it at a certainpoint, right, and so at least
he recognized that what he wasdoing was problematic but there
were other.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
What's to stop violet from casting fireball in school
?
You know just, they're allwielding powers and any power in
the wrong hands can be usedmaliciously.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, I feel like immediate death for people who
can read thoughts is prettyextreme, and part of me wonders
if that's the rule in the book,just so that Zayden's reveal
could be that dramatic,potentially, when you think
about it.
They're fine with seeing thefuture, they're fine with
reading memories, and all ofthis is because it can help with
(49:02):
battle.
You know what would be reallyhandy in battle Reading minds.
So I don't know.
Yeah, I do wonder if that's adevice to make Zayden's reveal
more's reveal a means to an end,basically yeah, yeah, um.
Obviously it's a extreme, youknow, like probably one of the
(49:23):
most powerful signals you canhave and it would take a lot to
control it as we.
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
So in terms of favorite moments, I only had one
other one, which is just a verylittle one compared we we hit
all the broad strokes of my bigones.
Um, okay we don't eat allies,so yeah this was said a couple
of times we don't eat our allies, uh, and it gave me such fisher
(49:57):
friends, not food, but I lovedit so much, and and and darna
parroting it back like a snarkyteenager uh was just just right
so.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
No, that was definitely worth talking about
100%.
I do feel like I think we'vecovered all of my favorite
moments.
I can't think of any that Iliked more than what we've
talked about, but I will saythat this book, a lot happened
in this book, like more thanhappened in Fourth Wing.
(50:34):
Fourth wing, I think it covereda ton of ground, um, even in
the second half of the book.
Right, we go to the place withthe ornamental grass, the
butterfly garden or whatever.
Yeah, we, we go all the wayback to bezgayeth.
We're in, you know, thecastlevania or whatever, castle
ryle or ryerson, we're all overthe map.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
We're all over the map.
Sorry, I love it so much.
Dave from Castlevania.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
But yeah, there's just we did that like mountain
scaling scene.
There were multiple likeintense action scenes, again
just in the last half of thebook because of the stupid venin
in the chest like wild scene.
The cave scene, the uh freaking, the wyvern on the on the
(51:27):
switchbacks scene, the giganticbattle at the end, jack
underneath the, the groundkilling his dragon.
There's so much stuff thathappened that was just like
breakneck paced excitement.
And again, I'm not a battlesgirly and none of those felt too
battle-y to me so I got to givea shout out to Rebecca Yaros
there, you didn't get too deepinto the battle minutia.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Yeah.
I feel like she strikes a goodbalance.
You know what?
I mean I feel engaged, but Ican follow along.
It doesn't start to lag, itdoesn't get too battle-y.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
There's a lot of interpersonal interaction, I
think, during her battles, whichhelps, right.
The plot is continuing Violet'scompleting a thing that she was
going to have to complete tograduate and it's like this
really exciting thing.
And that's just in the middleof the battle, right, and we can
all be really excited.
People die, people get superinjured.
We have to worry if they'regonna die like it's.
(52:25):
There's just more to it thanfighting, which I appreciate
yeah, appreciate it, yeah,agreed okay.
So we talked about our favoritemoments, we talked about the
book.
I think it's time to talk aboutour mvps, which is something
that we do every episode.
(52:47):
So we've started doing mvprunner-up and mvp and, since
this is our final discussionabout Iron Flame, we can take
the scores from last discussionand the scores from this
discussion to come up with ourprimo MVP, the MVP of all MVPs
for Iron Flame.
(53:07):
So, jessica, who is your runnerup MVP for this episode?
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Jessica, who is your runner-up, mvp for this episode.
Okay, I will say that for thesecond half of the book it was.
It was neck and neck for a bit,but I will go with for my
runner-up and Darna.
Okay, she came to the forefront, she came to slay and she
definitely did that.
Um, she came to slay and shedefinitely did that.
Yeah, she's there for her,bonded, and I was very impressed
(53:40):
with her.
She, you know, had some snarkwhile she was learning some
different things, working on herwing skills and strengthening
those muscles, but I feel likeshe was very present and very
critical in this half of thebook.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Absolutely critical.
Totally agree with that.
Did I get a little annoyed thatshe didn't let Violet know
earlier?
That could have helped.
But I mean she did explain itaway.
If you didn't figure it out,then you're not worthy of it.
She's a little snooty a little,a little, but like you could
(54:20):
have saved so many lives.
But no, she did.
She did amazing, this time likehuge shout out to andarna.
So my runner-up mvp is Yesenia,because once again, everybody
dies without Yesenia.
She's the one who figured outthe difference.
(54:42):
She came what?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's the only reason the wardswent up.
She came along to a war zone asa scribe so that she could be
there if she figured it outthere, if she figured it out.
And then she figured it out andliterally saved the day.
There's.
(55:02):
Just without her, they all die.
That's where, so definitelyworthy of a runner up spot, in
my opinion.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
Heck yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
All right, Jessica.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Okay so it was your time for my MVP for Iron Flame.
It is Violet.
I'm giving it to her this time.
I feel like she did enoughgrowth and did enough thinking
on her feet.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Very judgy.
I'm a very judgy reader but I Ifelt like I feel like in the
first half of the book you hadmade the comment about sometimes
you were just really annoyedwith her, and I had that similar
experience and I felt a lotless of that in the second half
of the book.
I feel like she's really cominginto her own and every time
she's problem solving and she'sdoing it in ways that are not
(55:58):
selfish.
You know what I mean.
She's doing it in smart ways,using all the resources at her
um disposal yeah and so I feltcomfortable giving it to her
this time because, as we knowfrom past but are there dragon?
Um, our, our heroes aren'talways our mvps no, those main
protagonists.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Really, I think we judge them harsher than
everybody else.
Um so I'm glad that violet gotsome love from you yeah, I'm
glad.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
So that leads me to ask critter for the end of iron
flame.
Who is your MVP?
Speaker 2 (56:35):
You're gonna hate this.
Oh no, it's General Sorengale.
Oh gosh, honestly, when yousaid that earlier, I was like,
oh, literally, I've decided Iswear.
Before we started this episodeit was like I'm going to make
sure that I have my opinion anda hundred percent it's her,
(56:57):
because of all the things I saidearlier.
The way she believed she wasprotecting Violet by sending her
to the writer's quadrant, sheenlisted Zayden to protect her
further and she gave them thebooks so she they could figure
out the ward, so that they couldbe protected behind the words
too.
And and then she sacrificed herself, her life, for her
(57:24):
children like, and for the wards, so that the wards could go up,
and saved everyone.
So, uh, as far as impact goes,biggest and best, that's where
we're at I knew it was going tobe a hard line.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
I knew that I was being really exacting with her I
was too honestly before this.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
I maybe I'm just super forgiving, but no, I think
.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
I think a reasonable person could be like that's a
lot, that was a lot, that was alot.
I just, and it's fine, becausea lot of times we are kind of
neck and neck.
It's more fun when we're notit's true right in lockstep.
The way you led with that justmade me laugh oh, let me just
start the podcast with how muchI am not impressed.
(58:14):
With your MVP, with your MVP,it turns out Okay.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
So I have a little note card here that's got our
tallies.
So let's see I think I know whoit is.
I think I do too.
So your MVP last time wasYesenia, so that's two points
for Yesenia, and she has been arunner-up twice, so that's four
(58:40):
points for Yesenia.
Yep, rhiannon got a runner-uponce.
Everybody else has only beennominated once.
Taryn got first from me lasttime, violet got first from you,
so they both have two, andDarna got second, so she's got
one, and General Sorengale alsohas two, so we have Jacinia in
(59:05):
the lead MVP with four points.
Speaker 1 (59:08):
A bookish MVP.
Who'd have?
Speaker 2 (59:10):
thought A bookish MVP with second place tying.
Tying for second Tern Violetand General Swordgill.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
It's good stuff, it is it is yeah, she pulled her
weight.
Yes, through the whole book.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
Through the whole book, Through the whole book.
So yeah, I have no regrets.
I feel like this makes a lot ofsense to me.
Speaker 1 (59:39):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
Okay.
Well, thank you so much fortuning in to our sixth episode
of Season 5 of but Are thereDragons, brought to you by your
hosts, jessica Sedai, me,critterxt.
Don't forget to follow us atbut Are there Dragons?
On YouTube, instagram andTikTok and but Dragons Pod, just
(01:00:02):
one T on X.
You can also find your hosts onsocial media at CritterXT and
Shelf Indulgence.
That's it for today.
We'll keep you posted on ournext read on the socials, soon,
hopefully, and we commend ironflame to malik.
Bye, bye.
Hello and welcome to, but Are there Dragons, a
podcast where two friends pick abook at least one of them
hasn't read and talk about it?
I'm your host, jess, and I'myour host, critter, and we are
here to talk about the secondhalf of Iron Flame and we're
pretty excited.
How are you doing tonight,critter?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
you doing tonight, critter?
Oh, doing pretty good.
You may notice that I am in aslightly different angle than
before and that's because mysetup is about half taken down
because I'm moving next week.
So we are in a weird.
I'm on my laptop, not mydesktop.
I'm using a different mic, it'sall.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
It's all different, so you know but in your usual
fashion it looks flawless, sowell done.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
I appreciate it I did get my hair done this morning,
so you know we're feeling fresh,even if we're a little
disheveled on the inside.
How are you?
Speaker 1 (00:56):
I'm good.
We are cruising into Labor Dayweekend, which means the summer
has passed me by, and eventhough we've done a lot of
really cool things, I can'tbelieve September is almost here
.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah, especially because that is the baby
dragon's birth month.
Speaker 1 (01:14):
I know.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
So he will be a year old.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
He will slide into toddlerdom.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
I know, and he's already like standing and
cruising along furniture and hetook a couple little tiny baby
stutter steps.
Today I'm not counting it aswalking yet, because I want it
to be a firm like step step.
Not like step, step, step.
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (01:39):
I mean you don't?
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Oh no, I love that metric because I was like he
took two once and I was like weall know I love that metric
because I was like he took twoonce and I, or, like you know,
one, and then a stutter step andI was like I I think that every
set of parents make their own,like the points are made up,
kind of thing, and I get it, I.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
I, when I was in those shoes, I had said three
because I knew that, like, oh,maybe it was an accident, no, it
was on purpose.
That was my mindset.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
No, I love that metric.
I've been wondering what themetric is and I'm going to go
ahead and resonate with that one.
I'm still not sure what themetric is for first words,
because he has absolutely lookedat me and unpropted, been like
mama, you know what I mean.
And so I'm like but he's donethe same for Mr Critter and he
(02:27):
you know what I mean, and so I'mlike, uh, but he's done the
same for mr critter and he says,oh, you're gonna love this,
okay, and friends of the podcastare gonna love this.
He has a crocheted dragon.
That's our bestie jessica, andmr jessica got him for christmas
and now he has taken two.
We go what's this?
Is it a dragon?
(02:47):
And he goes which to me that'sso close.
So like his first word might bedragon, which I think would be
so fun.
I mean obviously assuming we'renot going to count the mamas
and the daddas that keep gettingthrown around.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
We have to count the mamas and the daddas that keep
getting thrown around.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
But you can't be sure , because like, that's like data
has been in his vernacular,data has been in his vocabulary
for months, like everything wasdata at the beginning, because
that's the only thing he couldsay, and now he's got a broader
vocab and so it's like sometimeshe'll look at me and say data,
right, which is like no.
But then sometimes he looks atme and, and so it's like
sometimes he'll look at me andsay Dada, right, which is like
(03:25):
no.
But then sometimes he looks atme and says Mama, and it's like
yes, you know.
So it's unclear.
It's unclear if he knows.
Yet you know what I mean.
But the dragon is like if youstart with a D and have a G in
the middle that feels prettydeliberate.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
End sound at the end.
Speaker 2 (03:42):
Almost and almost ends down at the end Almost.
Speaker 1 (03:44):
Yeah, so he hasn't done it unprompted yet, but I'm
doing my best to be like what'sthat I'm so excited that the
dragons is even catchingattention, because I was
somebody who had a young one whohad too many stuffies and, you
know, you never knew which onehe was going to light.
So the fact that he even knowsthat exists makes my little
heart happy, um yeah, he lovesit.
(04:06):
And yeah, like ride that dragontheme.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
Dig it.
I'm working on it.
I'm working on it really hard.
So, anyways, that's where we'reat.
Personally, we're going to talkabout iron flame, right?
Yeah, we are.
Uh, we didn't mention IronFlame by Rebecca Yaros, and this
section of Iron Flame is thesecond half, which I believe
started with chapter 36.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
36 or 37.
So, completely by accident, wesplit it based on what was
roughly half the book 36.
So 36.
So that means that part two ofthe book started at chapter 37,
which we didn't know when wearbitrarily broke up the book.
Speaker 2 (04:50):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And I vaguely recall at thebeginning or at the end maybe,
of our last discussion for thefirst half of Iron Flame, we
were collectively complainingabout a couple of things One,
the fact that Zayden hadn't yetsaid I love you, because
obviously he loved her, and twowas that andarna was still
(05:11):
asleep, and almost immediatelylo and behold that chapter, the
first chapter we read old zaydenryerson finally confesses his
love, which took you long enough, satan.
How'd you feel when thathappened?
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Uh, I was like, okay, well, it's about damn time,
yeah, as Lizzo says.
Um, yeah, no, both of thosethings.
And I, uh, honestly, I readthat the night that we recorded
that episode, so I was like,heck, yes, thank you, just
needed to get it out of the way,you guys?
(05:47):
Um, literally, but I hadalready been so tickled because
we had talked about you know,this is a couple books in a row
for us of choosing reallyinteresting cliffhanger, like
spots completely at randomnailed it.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
I think we're really talented.
We have a talent.
Um, I think, honestly, probablymy favorite part about Zayden
finally saying I love you it wasnot that he finally said it
because, like duh, obviouslythat was coming, but, um, it was
way, way later when Dave saidsomething along the lines of he
asked Violet like do you reallylove him?
Because I heard his confessionand it basically made me fall in
(06:25):
love.
Yes, I thought that washilarious, and usually I don't
like Dave, but that made melaugh.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So good to know we're still calling him Dave.
Speaker 2 (06:34):
I was wondering how you stood at the end of the book
, I mean okay, fine, like I madethe choice, like should we
finally start calling him DaneBecause we're on his?
Speaker 1 (06:46):
side.
I don't know, we don't have to,we don't have to rush it we can
flip-flop whatever we'refeeling in the moment yes, I
will say that his redemptionthrough this book, as you had
kind of foretold, has gonepretty well.
Um, as far as redemption goesfor any of these characters, so
(07:07):
far he's in the lead.
You know there was a certainother character I was hoping
would have a little bit more ofa redemption art and it was not
enough for me so let's talkabout it, then you're obviously
talking about.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
Violet's mom I'm obviously talking about violet's
mom.
Not enough for you mama soaringgale.
Speaker 1 (07:29):
No, because I, let's be clear her sacrifice, her
sacrifice was definitelymeaningful, um, and I'm very
relatable again as a mom, like Ican understand that.
I think that people makeoffhand comments about I step in
front of a moving vehicle, Itake a bullet, like I.
(07:50):
I think that at a certain pointyou realize, oh, they say that
stuff because it's real.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
Like it's real now.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
Yeah, I totally know it now um and it's different
from the inside, but not to takeaway from her sacrifice.
But I still don't think I wasreally hoping for some
amelioration.
I was.
I was hoping for someredemption towards her motives
and I don't think that they'rethere.
I think that she, she knewabout the danger and she pushed
(08:22):
her children into it anyways,and she pushed them into it
Without all of the informationthat they needed.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Alright, so you don't buy the.
She thought Violet was safer Inthe writer's quadrant.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
No, I don't.
I mean, I buy that.
That was what she told herselfokay, I buy that that's what she
told herself and I understandthe threat that markham posed as
somebody who is going toperpetuate the lie.
And, and even with that, um, Iwould not have sacrificed my
(09:05):
children to the machinations ofVazquez.
I would not.
My children would not be partof that military regime.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Okay, so what would you do with your children?
I'm not sure.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
You know I'm sitting here with all of the confidence
of a person who does not have tomake that choice but and I
don't feel like they got intoyou know, when she knew it, how
she knew it were they alreadymarried?
Did they already have kids, andall of that?
I just feel like at some pointshe rose to power, she had to be
in the know, and at any pointin there there, don't you think
(09:47):
you could have made a differentchoice for your children?
Speaker 2 (09:51):
huh, I guess in my mind and correct me if I'm wrong
, but I thought, like onconscription day you had to be
in something, either infantry orthe writer's quadrant or the
scribes.
I thought that was like I.
I didn't think it was likegetting enlisted in the military
(10:11):
, I thought it was kind of likeno, this is I think it was for
the rebels.
Speaker 1 (10:16):
I don't know that it was required okay, so there are
like normies.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
There are non-scribe military.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Well, now I'm.
Speaker 2 (10:25):
Maybe I'm being a real jerk, but I was like no, I
mean it would make sense Likethere has to be more Like
everybody's children has to gointo the military Everybody's
children.
I mean honestly for this society, it wouldn't surprise me I
hadn't really thought it through.
I assume that on conscriptionday, everyone because like
(10:47):
didn't it?
Say like no, am I okay?
I think I'm remembering thisright, that like the only people
, the only no okay.
Now I'm wondering it's like youtake the tests right and then
like, whatever you qualify for,you essentially get like drafted
into it, but you can elect todo the writer's quadrant right
the writers is not mandatory foranybody but the rebels children
(11:09):
right.
And so then the question is isthat just for people who go into
the military or is it foreveryone?
But again, like there has to be, there have to be people who
are in the military.
That would make sense if theyall were right.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
So, anyways, I guess that's a whole in my knowledge
and I think that's where my mindyou know, I'm coming from my
high horse over here and I getit about this make a new place.
But I'm like I I just thinkthat whatever she knew when she
knew it, I would have, I wouldlike to think that she would
have made better choices for herkids.
Okay, so that all three of themgo through as a machinery.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Okay, yeah, I mean, I guess if there was another way,
the non-military, non-scribes,non-infantry, non-writer way,
then yeah, that would have beenthe choice.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
If it is like you're painting it, which honestly
hadn't occurred to me that therewouldn't be a civilian part of
the population, Because Iunderstand the pressure.
Like you're in the military,your children should be in the
military.
I do understand thatperspective.
But if everybody's kids has todo one or the other, then it
(12:19):
gets grayer, then it getsmurkier, because in the infantry
infantry are fodder you knowthe infantry are, or fodder.
You know the infantry aredefinitely perfect portrayed as
red shirts yes, exactly, um.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
So then it's a choice between the scribes and the and
the flyers um the riders, um,yeah, but once the scrib to me
the scribe's place wasn't a safeplace then yeah, she basically
thought because violet was likethe prodigy, the protege,
(12:53):
whatever that she was inevitablygoing to find out the secret
and she was going to rageagainst the machine.
Which, surprise, that's exactlywhat she did.
Yeah, um, but had she gonethrough the writer's quadrant,
not attached at the hip toZayden, without falling in love
with him, then she never wouldhave found out.
She would have been just likeMeera, she would have just gone
(13:15):
off into the world and had justas much of a chance as anybody
else.
So, I don't know, I have todisagree.
I forgave General Sorengale.
I really did.
Also like the deal that shestruck was aid to protect Violet
, right, he's one of the onlypeople who had enough power
amidst the rebels to stopeveryone else from hurting
(13:40):
Violet, right?
And he did exactly that.
So, so the general not only puther in the writer's quadrant,
which she allegedly thought wassafer, but then added a
safeguard over top of that.
Um, not to mention she gaveviolet the book, right, and and
then this, the huge giantsacrifice at the end.
(14:00):
So I know I've been a hater,I've been drinking the haterade
for general sorghill this wholetime, but this second half of
iron flame just completelyabsolved her for me.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
So I will say it was a huge payoff, like it was great
to read.
So even though I was not, Ididn't really necessarily felt
like it was enough to exonerateher.
From a reading perspective,from a reader's perspective, I
loved the payoff of it.
I thought that it was highstakes and a great way to end,
you know, a middle book for sure, for sure.
Speaker 2 (14:33):
Yeah, it was her sacrifice at the end was super
powerful and the way they allreacted to it.
And, honestly, like, I have mycomplaints about the audiobook
narrator.
Like I feel like she does agood job overall, but there are
certain sentences where she likeemphasizes the wrong word.
You know what I mean.
Like it's kind of hard todescribe, but like like, for
example, whenever um they metwith, can't remember who they
(14:56):
met with.
Uh, like whenever violet's momwas there.
Was it markham?
Who the hell was it that the j?
Speaker 1 (15:02):
Melgren.
Speaker 2 (15:03):
Yeah, okay, so Melgren was there and then the
guy with the rebels or whateverwas there and they were like
trading bars or whatever, andhe's like, oh, melgren was like,
oh, I thought you might not behere, and the guy responded and
he was like, well, I hoped yoube or something.
(15:26):
It was like the way she, likeyou know, like instead of being
like you would be, her cadencewas just wrong and I was like it
took me out and she's done thata few times.
But, um, some of the, some ofthe moments that have been like
really emotional, she reallynailed and she nailed that like
violent, reacting to her mom,mira, um, brennan, all of them
(15:47):
Like she did a really good jobthere.
So it it hit, you know it hithard, it hit, it hit good yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
Yeah, I, um I definitely overall really liked
this book more than the firstbook.
Same, um, I do feel like I andagain it's probably a mixture,
but I think the writing hasadvanced some and I think the
characters have advanced some,so I think there's just an
(16:17):
overall better readingexperience for me this time
around.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
I agree, I will say so I've.
I read this book likeimmediately when we recorded the
last episode.
I read it like right away, andthen I was like, oh my gosh, I
finished so quickly.
I'm going to forget everythingthat I read by the time we have
this recording.
So I started it over a little,like a little faster, you know
like 1.75, maybe two times speed, whatever and I finished it
(16:48):
immediately.
It was so fast and so it hadbeen like I have had this half
of this book finished twice forover a week and a half, and so
just today I had it going onlike three times speed and I
almost made it all the waythrough.
I almost made it all the waythrough.
So it's very fresh, thankfully.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
The problem is is now I know just how fast that is.
So, for anybody who doesn'tknow, I have always been a
tactile reader, whether it's aphysical book or a Kindle.
I have never tried to do audio,and I am now trying to do audio
with my gap book at the behestof mr jessica.
Dungeon crawler, carl is hisnew favorite drug, um, and so
(17:30):
he's like you have to try it.
You have to try it, audiobookstyle.
I work from home uh, I don't,and but I can't listen while I
work because my job requires meto do cognitive things.
I can't sure same yeah, so I'mtrying to manifest times to
listen to audio book.
All of that aside, there's waytoo much information.
I know that I can only live in1.2 to 1.5 for net new
(17:57):
information, because anythingfaster and I don't think you're
speaking English anymore, it'sall going by and that's dungeon
crawler, carl, like that's.
You know it's classified as litrpg, so it's, it's light, it's
light stuff okay, I need todouble check to see how fast.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Okay.
So for my most recent todayspeed read, I had it at 2.9, and
that is about as fast as youcan get it with this narrator
without it literally beinggibberish, and the only way I
could swing it was I've read ittwice and so I knew what I was
listening to.
You know what I mean.
Like it wasn't new information.
Speaker 1 (18:36):
I'm just so new to it that a lot of times you talk
about how fast you listen to ittoo, and we talk about it in the
discord and you guys aretalking about like, yeah, yeah,
yeah, I'm a fast reader too.
Now I can, now I know it, now Ifeel it.
Um, because I'm like 1.2.
I started at one I was like, ohgosh, no, this is too slow, way
(18:56):
too slow for me.
Uh, you're stopping to breatheand stuff.
Quit it.
Um so, but anything more than1.5 and I nothing okay, that's
fair, that's fair.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
I don't even know what I was trying to lead up to
when I said that I've reread itthat many times, but anyways,
it's fresh again, which I'mexcited about, and uh, yeah, um,
oh, oh, I now.
Now I know what.
Speaker 1 (19:22):
I was going to say Back on track.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
So during my reread, so the first time I read the
whole thing like I don't skipanything, whatever.
Second time I didn't skipanything either.
This time I did choose to skipthe sex scenes Because it's just
to me, like you said, thewriting is better.
I agree that it is, but likethose to me do not add any value
(19:47):
and I think it's just the typeof stuff that I like to read.
Like I guess I am just not likethis kind of romanticity, like
these.
I don't know if I don't know ifother kind of sex scenes would
appeal to me, but I just findthem to be very repetitive in
some ways, I don't know, and uh,and just kind of like they're
taking up time that could bespent with the plot.
(20:09):
I don't know, I don't know.
Um, that's where I'm at, uh.
So yeah, other than the sexscenes, though, like you know,
it's a, it's a fun, I mean withthem even.
It's a fun story and it was asuperior story to the first book
in my opinion.
I think I gave it like a solidfour stars on Goodreads.
Speaker 1 (20:34):
Now that I'm thinking , If book one had been this
caliber, it would have been anautomatic.
Yes, you know how we were onthe fence when we got done with
book one and we weren't sure howwe felt.
I think that if book one was acomparable read to how I felt at
the end of this book, it wouldhave been a yeah, we're square,
(20:55):
go, let's keep going.
Speaker 2 (20:56):
Definitely going.
Yeah, I'm right there with you.
Yeah, I gave it four starsbecause it's a solid read.
That's a is that a catholicschool?
B not bad at all.
Yeah, totally, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So what else happened?
Um, okay, so we had like, wegot introduced to cat though we
(21:19):
got introduced to her beforeearlier, but we really got
introduced.
Speaker 1 (21:24):
We really got to see some backstory on zayden um and
and this takaris person who isher dad, and that that the
arrangement that was betweenthem, and it was fascinating.
I thought that that was reallyinteresting.
I liked all of that.
I liked that this book had alot of well.
(21:46):
This is how the other halflived, both with the rebellion
side and with the flyer side.
I liked that contrastingviewpoint.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
You know, the Flyers have a lot going for them, Like
the fact that they think thewriter's quadrant is so absurdly
brutal.
I think it's so spot on.
Like thank God people havesense in this universe.
Like, yeah, no, we don't dieand wash up on the shore, we
just join a different branch ofthe military.
Speaker 1 (22:21):
So did you have not to keep comparing, comparing to
other media, but do you keephaving wheel of time flashbacks?
So I had.
So between the talks about theweaving for the runes and okay,
that, yes, that did, and theflyers, you know jumping off a
cliff into water um no bigthrowbacks to wheel of time for
(22:44):
me okay, yeah, the from the show.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
I didn't put those, I didn't put that together at all
.
That to me reminded, I guessnow just thinking about it, it
didn't remind me at the time,but it kind of reminds me of, uh
, like avatar oh, sure, yep youknow, with those like flying
birds and avatar one or what.
They're not birds, whateverthey are, I don't know what they
are.
That kind of evokes that image.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
That's probably more comparable.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
Maybe, maybe a little bit.
So they go to this place that'sgot the ornamental grass and
cat and apparently a oh my god,I lost what they're called the
sorcerer guys evil people, thankyou, wow.
It's, uh, it's a really goodday for me right now, today.
(23:32):
Um, a venom in a chest yeah, ina floating test were you
shocked.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
I was shocked, um again, I, I'm not, I'm not the
thinker in the family, I'm notthe one going, going.
Oh, it's going to be this andit's going to be this.
That's Mr Jessica.
He's the one who's like I thinkit's going to be this, this,
this and this.
When we get done recording anepisode, he's like so what do
you think is going to happennext?
I'm like, I don't know, I'mjust along for the ride.
(23:59):
Yeah, just chilling.
Just yeah, just chilling.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Just chilling.
I do love being right aboutpredictions.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
I do, but they have to, like they happen to me.
I don't manifest them.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
Yes, amen, same.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So yeah, the Venom in the chest was wild, just the
floating chest.
The concept of the floatingchest was kind of a very neat
thing.
Concept, uh, because obviouslywe have magic in this world, uh,
but that's, that's differentthat's pretty, pretty bizarre,
um, it was.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
I love how he was like no, zayden can't come down
with you, but then miras likeeff it, I'm going, and they just
let her, you know, whatever.
Um, although I guess he wouldbe happy to get rid of as many
sword gills as possible.
So maybe that was why, um, butyeah, violet just kind of like
nailed it once again.
She did a.
Really, she brained it up,right, like in the same way that
(25:00):
she, whenever the um wyvernshowed up when they were scaling
that cliff, right, she, sheuses that brain of hers and just
absolutely slays.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
I think that every time she's had a problem in
front of her so when they werescaling the cliffs with the
flyers, when they brought thisSven in, and then later on in
this book every time she's hadto come up with a unique
solution.
Those are payoffs that I'vereally like.
I made a note about that, thatI those are things that I really
liked about this book, that Ifeel like the writer did a great
(25:34):
job giving us unique solutionsand even just when we're reading
them even though action's notalways necessarily a thing that
draws me like combat's notnecessarily my thing draws me
like combat's not necessarily mything um, she's always got my
attention.
(25:54):
She's doing a really good jobwith those scenes and giving her
really, uh, tasty solutions.
I don't know any other way todescribe it no, it's true, it's.
Speaker 2 (26:04):
It's like it's not just you know who's got the
bigger sword.
Right, it's who's, in her case,who's got bigger brain, which
is a refreshing way to read afight scene.
Yeah, because that's not alwayswhat you get.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
We had some good sibling energy, and so, as an
only child, I will ask you onceagain how do you feel the
sibling dynamics went?
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Wait, you're an only child.
I'm an only child.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
Okay, uh, wait, you're an only child, I'm an
only child, okay, so I can'tspeak to it.
Um, but we finally get themoment where mira knows that
brennan's alive and as an onlychild.
I'm like that tracks.
How do you feel about that?
Speaker 2 (26:41):
no 100.
That's how I would have reactedas well.
Obviously she was happy, butthen also pissed, and I would
have been the same.
I think the sibling dynamic waskind of perfect, honestly, and
you know, what's funny actuallyis I have an older brother and a
younger sister, oh yeah, and soit is kind of the same, I guess
(27:02):
, as the soaring gales, and yeahthat makes me mira, then, that
makes me Mira.
Yeah, no, I'm not Violet.
I mean, I guess I'd like insome ways, in some ways I would
be kind of Violety.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
But I can see you as a badass captain well, that's
what I was going to say.
Speaker 2 (27:19):
Like I'm a little, probably more physical than
Violet, you know, like I'vealways been, like, uh, like an
athlete, you know, violet makesup for her shortcomings.
I was going to say I feel likeViolet's physical capability has
advanced.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
through the book there were some things she still
mentions that's going to hurt,or she braces to take the hit or
whatever.
But I do feel like there was ascene talking about her just
running for all.
She's got to try and make it tothe ward stone and she actually
(27:55):
landed the whatever.
The running dismount is whereyou basically yeah, yeah.
It's like a running stop off ofa moving dragon.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
Something like that.
Speaker 2 (28:09):
So I think the sword swing.
Speaker 1 (28:12):
Yes, I think her physicality has advanced and I
feel like she's being portrayedthat way, but not to a point
that makes it like, oh, she'sjust all of a sudden OP.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Yeah, like physically dangerous.
She's just very skilled.
She's got skills now which makeher dangerous, like in the
fight against Kat right, likeshe wasn't bigger than Kat.
Kat had like five inches on heror something, I think.
Like they said Kat was biggerthan her and yet she won the
fight because of her skill andrage and all kinds of stuff.
(28:49):
How did you feel about thatconfrontation?
By the way?
Speaker 1 (28:55):
It was good.
I thought that it had to happen.
I thought that it was verysatisfying for it to happen on
the page and get it out of theway.
Also for Kat to be somebody whocan inflame people's emotions.
I thought that that was aninteresting power for her to
(29:15):
wield.
I also liked the fact that theauthor decided to say you know
later, while Zayden and Violetare talking about what happened
with Kat and really stokingViolet's insecurities, that it
couldn't happen if herinsecurities didn't exist.
And I was like I'm really gladthat that is the way you chose
(29:36):
to portray that, because youknow you can't create an emotion
that doesn't exist.
So I found that all to be verysatisfying.
Speaker 2 (29:48):
Yeah, I'm torn about that scene personally Because
when I look back on it and whatI remember about it, it's giving
catfight and I'm wonderingbecause would I feel that way if
it was two guys?
You know what I mean.
And I think if it were two guysthen I would assume it's a dick
(30:15):
measuring contest and but withthe two girls, to me it's giving
cat fight and I don't knowbecause, like the way that
violet gets so riled up becauseof cat to be fair, like it's not
her fault but she gets superriled up and like her internal
dialogue is just this, like youknow what I mean, it kind of
reminds me of mean girls.
The regina george scene, whereit's like you know what I mean.
It kind of reminds me of MeanGirls.
The Regina George scene, whereit's like you know what people
say about you.
They say you're a homeschooljungle freak who's a less hot
version of me.
That's kind of what I'm gettingfrom that it's fair and it's
(30:42):
not completely fair again,because it's a military school.
Sparring is very common and partof the practice and also it was
very necessary.
But did it do anything betweenViolet and Kat?
It didn't resolve anything.
They hated each other even moreafter that.
So yeah, I'm back and forth onit.
(31:03):
It was fun to see Violet almostkill her.
Good Get it.
But at the same time I don'tlove to see my main characters
just completely lose control,even if it's not their fault.
Well and does it propel thestory?
Yeah, yeah, and I mean I guessthe conversation that she had
(31:27):
with Zayden after the fact wasthe more satisfying part of all
of it, I think, yeah, that's avalid point.
Speaker 1 (31:33):
I hadn't really thought about it, but yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
But you know the fact that he tried to prove himself.
Obviously I've never been on myknees for her, she's never been
on this throne, all that stuffjust kind of boosting Violet up.
I was like, oh, that's nice.
But also I wish for her.
She's never been on this throne, all that stuff just kind of
like boosting violet up.
I was like, oh, that's nice.
But also like I wish you didn'tneed that.
I wish you would just be moreconfident.
But obviously I'm not sayingI'm immune to jealousy.
(31:59):
Like it's a hard emotion thatpeople face all the time, so
it's totally understandable well, and jealousy and insecurity
beat off of each other in suchgnarly ways.
Speaker 1 (32:10):
True true, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
And she's still young , very young you know, not going
to be as sure in herself as,say, you know us wizened women.
Speaker 1 (32:23):
Some of us are more wizened than others, but anyways
, yeah so excellent points.
I think we had some reallykiller dragon fights too.
If I can pivot for just asecond, 100%.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Yeah, let's pivot.
Yeah, what was your favoritedragon fight?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
I mean it's got to be my girl, indarna.
Okay in the cave.
Speaker 2 (32:52):
Yes, yes, yes, that's what I was.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I love that fight so I mean she's her.
Her in that scene is likenumber two on my top five
moments on this list.
She did she was incredible.
So she has taken over, I feellike the bratty teenager vibes
have kind of segued from violetto andarna and but even andarna
is kind of moving through themat a, at a reasonable clip, so
(33:17):
it's great.
Um, she still, you know, got alittle extra sass.
Um, but yeah, I, I, really I.
Last book it was like tyrondoing a lot of not a lot, but,
you know, when he had reallykind of vicious moments where he
took the other dragon by thethroat or whatever, I was like,
(33:37):
oh yeah, excellent reminder thatthese are dangerous creatures,
and so, and Darna taking thespotlight for me for this book
in that, way.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
Yeah, she that was.
It was a great scene.
She like protected them all,shielded them with her body
Taryn couldn't get to them, soit was all up to her and then
she killed him.
She killed Solas Like slay,literally, literally.
It was so satisfying to me,right, and that scene was so
good because it was like it feltclaustrophobic, it felt it did
(34:11):
like you felt hot, you couldfeel the fire, right.
It was like it was.
And uh, and violet protected,cat and every in every and um,
oh my gosh, what's her name?
Liam's sister manifested hersignet Sloane, sloane, yeah, and
so all of that and the factthat she was like I'm not a Am I
(34:33):
a Venon.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
I look back at that now, and I'm like there were so
many signs pointing to Venon.
Where was I?
Speaker 2 (34:40):
Yeah, totally fair reaction, because she didn't
know what siphoning was.
So that was also up there in mytop scenes Because, again, I
don't usually like fight scenes,but that one was just very
unique, satisfying and visceraland it starred our girl, andarda
.
Speaking of Andarda, oh, goahead.
Speaker 1 (35:01):
Oh, just to cap that off, that she was just so I will
be where I need to be, you know, Just get it girl yeah yeah to
be.
You know, just get it girl.
Speaker 2 (35:09):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I mean, let's keeptalking about Indarna, right?
Because the twist of the bookis that she's her own breed,
she's her own type of dragon,which, honestly, now that I
reread the book three times Ireread the second half should
have been obvious.
You know, every time Violet sawher, it was like, oh, she's
actually purple.
Obvious, you know, every timeViolet saw her it was like, oh,
she's actually purple today.
(35:30):
You know, like she's got that.
Why does she look like that?
Like like when is she going tostart looking more like tear,
like I should have noticed.
Speaker 1 (35:40):
I didn't notice.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Did you?
Speaker 1 (35:42):
No, no, even though, like her, her, no, even though,
like her, her, her scales are soblack they look purple, purple
in the light, or whatever I waslike oh, I'd love that.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
That sounds beautiful , you know, like lovely whoosh
right over the head yeah,violence, like oh, probably
because she's an adolescent, Iwas like totally, let's move on.
Um, but then I also the book,the like.
Every time she read the likethe six and the one combined, I
was like what do they mean bythe one combined?
That's her right, because she'sall the colors.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
That's all I can think of is that she's all of
the bloodlines, Because they'reall bloodlines, right?
The whole point is that eachcolor traces a different
bloodline.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
Yeah, I guess.
Except for that they didn'tknow what color Andarna was
going to be, even though atleast Tern, I thought, knew who
her parents were.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
Well, and I feel like he but.
Andarna's just sleeping a longtime waiting for Violet to come
along.
I remember that part from theread, but I mean Taryn's pretty
old so he probably still doesknow who her parents are.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
Maybe I might have been misremembering.
I might have remembered thatthe elders knew, Because the
elders also knew about her breedfrom the get-go.
When taryn didn't right, that'swhat they said I think so yeah,
I think so too I haven'tlearned a lot about the empyrean
yeah, I mean, it's kind ofwhatever I pick up as I'm
(37:23):
reading, which isn't always thatmuch, um, but but yeah, but
then the, the big the.
The thing that jessenia came upwith was what, instead of six,
it was seven.
Speaker 1 (37:35):
Right, that was the thing yes, oh yeah, but I don't
think I have that highlighted umit's okay.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
It's okay because, like in now that I'm like okay,
so instead of six and the onecombined, it was seven and the
one combined, but that, but thenthat would mean Indarna is part
of the seven but then also theone, or not.
I don't know.
If somebody knows what thehell's going on with that
prophecy for that rule book orthat guidebook, let me know
Describe it in detail.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
But only let Critter know Don't tell me, I'll wait
and find out when I read it.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Oh wait, we in detail , but only let critter know,
don't tell me, I'll wait andfind out when I read it.
Oh wait, we did read it, though, that's.
That's what happened.
This book yeah, but I I'massuming there's more to come in
the next book oh okay, I guessall I want to know is based on
the rule book or based on theguidebook, which I believe said
the seven and the one combined.
Is Andarna the one, or is sheone of the seven and the one
(38:30):
combined is just the ward stone?
I don't know.
That's all I want to know,which I feel like is kind of
what happened in the book.
Yeah, you can just.
Speaker 1 (38:41):
I couldn't do the ward stone.
So who was okay?
Yep, I got confused.
I got really confused.
Uh, because violet?
Because it was the six versusthe seven, and just then you
found it because that had to dowith how many runes they had
when they were bolstering orsetting up to, like, imbue the
(39:07):
ward stone, what?
Okay, I don't know.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
now I'm gonna, I'm gonna back away you might be
right, you might be right, Idon't remember um, I'm gonna go
back and read it again okay.
Well, that's see, isn't itembarrassing?
Technically?
Speaker 1 (39:26):
I didn't get to the end, so I've only read that part
twice I was more interested inwhat was happening with Violet
and her mom, and then Zayden.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
I didn't give a shit about the Wardstone at that
point.
Yeah, oh.
But speaking of the Wardstone,right, okay.
So another twist Mm-hmm.
F-ing.
What's-his-face was a VenonJack, jack Barlow.
Speaker 1 (39:53):
F-ing Jack Barlow.
F'ing Jack Barlow.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
F'ing Jack Barlow and killing his dragon.
Speaker 1 (39:59):
I was so personally offended by that.
Speaker 2 (40:03):
I will say that was in one of my top scenes because
of how horrifying it was.
It was shocking and horrifying.
And this book, you know it'sgood, it's fun, fun, but it's
not always gonna get hugeemotions out of me.
But that scene I was like what?
Yeah, like it blew my mind.
Speaker 1 (40:22):
That scene was wild what you were saying, I was like
, oh so his eyes have beenbloodshot like this whole time,
and okay, yeah, no, it was.
You know, it was enough of areveal, because obviously we
left the last episode with youknow, tbd on, you know is jack
really reformed, and I thoughtthe big deal was that they were
(40:44):
just trying, you know, theybrought him back from the dead,
um, not that they were trying tocure his venin status, um, so
know, the fact that he turns outto be a Venon is a lot less
alarming than the fact that he'swilling to sacrifice his own
dragon, which is just yeah, wehate him.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
So he can be a Venon.
That's fine, although the factthat Venon can operate in the
wards is a discovery that Ididn't love, although I guess
it's not now after the end ofthe book, kind it's kind of a
good thing, right?
Yeah, like we don't want zaydento die because he's in the
(41:25):
wards we don't think so.
Speaker 1 (41:27):
Um, yeah, and zayden going to talk to jack barlow.
You know that's a strong, so Ihad to.
I got about halfway through thelast chapter and again had to
go back and go right.
This chapter is from Zayden'sperspective.
I forgot again.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Mm-hmm, uh yeah, that was a surprise.
Speaker 1 (41:50):
Where were?
Speaker 2 (41:51):
you at, with Zayden becoming a Venon.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
I was first off, you know, tipping my hat to Rebecca
Yarris.
I was like that's a killer.
Ending to a subsequent book,like well done.
And even before I finishedreading that chapter, I'm like
he must have thought he had noother choice.
And then the other part of mybrain, the quieter part of my
brain, is going that stilldoesn't make it okay or less
(42:29):
scary.
Speaker 2 (42:31):
Yeah, I mean, violet was still like sleeping with him
or whatever.
Speaker 1 (42:32):
Yes, he woke up in bed next to her.
I was like I think I found thatpart more alarming than the
Venom reveal.
Honestly, I was like so we'rehearing, we're seeing his
perspective on how that fightended.
And then we just got dot dotdot.
He wakes up in the middle ofthe night, leaves bed and goes
to talk to you know, effing JackBartlow.
Speaker 2 (42:56):
Yeah, I guess I don't know enough about what happens
when you become a Venant, right,because they're like, oh, it's
these evil people who reach forpower that they shouldn't have
access to.
But we got his perspective.
He reached for that powerbecause he was backed into a
corner and he felt like he hadto right.
So it wasn't like evil motiveRight a corner and he felt like
(43:17):
he had to right.
So it wasn't like evil motive,right.
Um.
So does it fundamentally changeyour soul when you become a
venin or not?
And so you know that's gonnahave to get answered in the
future, and my biggest questionis either it's going to be fine,
like you can still be a goodperson while being a Venon and
(43:37):
probably like really freakingpowerful, or they're going to
find a cure, because I feel likeZayden can't just be a problem.
I don't know.
I don't know, maybe she'll killhim.
Wouldn't that be something?
Speaker 1 (43:53):
That would be something I don't know.
I don't know, maybe she'll killhim.
Wouldn't that be something?
That would be something I?
I I want Zayden to be okay, butpart of me is, like, does
Zayden have to be the sacrifice?
So there are a couple ofcomments that have been made
about how Zayden's notinherently good.
Um and and um, I would have tolike actually go into my kindle
(44:17):
to find the sections that I'mthinking of.
But people have been like it'snot, he's not making benevolent
choices, he's making choicesbecause they're the choices you
want him to make, talking aboutthe power struggle between them,
because you know, if any one ofthem dies that are bonded to
each other, it endangers theother.
(44:38):
Um, and so there were a couplepieces of that.
One is, I had highlighted, I'mnot powerful just because he
loves me, which is somethingthat violet was thinking, which
I found to be very kind oflamenting and sad, and I can
like, oh, that makes me sad.
I would feel sad too.
Um, then other people that he,she talked to, um in Aredia, I
(45:02):
think, saying you know, likehe's not a benevolent person by
nature, like he's not makingthese choices for the greater
good.
He's making these choices,because you know he's following
your direction or whatever, um,and that just kind of stuck with
me and so I'm like I don't wantzayden to be problematic, but I
don't know how surprised Iwould be if he becomes
(45:24):
problematic yeah, I guess Idon't really know the formula
for these like romanticist books, but how wild would it be if
dave was endgame that that feelslike a switcheroo.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
It would be huge.
I've read Romantic City and I'mnot going to say what, where
things get switched up, but it'susually pretty early.
Two books in, she's stillhelplessly, hopelessly in love
with him, even though he's aVenon.
So he would have to die, Iwould think, or just become
(45:57):
objectively evil.
But man, that would be a hugeswitch.
Flipped like it would be damn.
It'd be a major whiplash forthe reader, which you know what
it could.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Be fun, like I like emotional reactions, I don't
know yeah, there was a commentmade in there, um, when they got
to a point where they wereadmitting how they feel about
each other, about how, uh, youknow, even though I love you, if
we can't find a way to do thisin a healthy way, I'll still
walk away yeah um, so we'll see.
(46:32):
We'll see if that goes anywhere.
But those were just things thatkind of stuck with me through
this read about Zayden build up.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
What could it possibly be?
This is, you know, and in him,you know, how long does it take
someone to fall out of love likea lot of it was just like come
on, guys, this is like I feellike, when explained, it's not
that devastating of a signet asthey made it out to be in in my
opinion.
Like he can't read thoughts, hecan read intentions and he,
according to him, he's only doneit to her a few times, it
(47:20):
mostly unintentionally, you know, like I don't know she like the
whole pearl clutching aboutthat signet to me was kind of
overdone.
How did you feel about it?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
um, I also felt it was dramaticized.
Uh, I also felt, though, thatthat instructor walking out and,
you know, essentially breakingthat kid's neck was super
dramatic, yeah.
So I'm not quite sure whyintention sensing, I'm not quite
sure I'm aligned with them andhow they view this signet.
(47:51):
If Dane, if Dave, can see yourmemories, how is that less
invasive?
Speaker 2 (48:04):
than zayden, being able to sense your intentions
and he doesn't even have totouch you he doesn't even have
to touch you yeah, well, and hedid say like I felt like dave
when I was doing it at a certainpoint, right, and so at least
he recognized that what he wasdoing was problematic but there
were other.
Speaker 1 (48:24):
What's to stop violet from casting fireball in school
?
You know just, they're allwielding powers and any power in
the wrong hands can be usedmaliciously.
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yeah, I feel like immediate death for people who
can read thoughts is prettyextreme, and part of me wonders
if that's the rule in the book,just so that Zayden's reveal
could be that dramatic,potentially, when you think
about it.
They're fine with seeing thefuture, they're fine with
reading memories, and all ofthis is because it can help with
(49:02):
battle.
You know what would be reallyhandy in battle Reading minds.
So I don't know.
Yeah, I do wonder if that's adevice to make Zayden's reveal
more's reveal a means to an end,basically yeah, yeah, um.
Obviously it's a extreme, youknow, like probably one of the
(49:23):
most powerful signals you canhave and it would take a lot to
control it as we.
So yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
So in terms of favorite moments, I only had one
other one, which is just a verylittle one compared we we hit
all the broad strokes of my bigones.
Um, okay we don't eat allies,so yeah this was said a couple
of times we don't eat our allies, uh, and it gave me such fisher
(49:57):
friends, not food, but I lovedit so much, and and and darna
parroting it back like a snarkyteenager uh was just just right
so.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
No, that was definitely worth talking about
100%.
I do feel like I think we'vecovered all of my favorite
moments.
I can't think of any that Iliked more than what we've
talked about, but I will saythat this book, a lot happened
in this book, like more thanhappened in Fourth Wing.
(50:34):
Fourth wing, I think it covereda ton of ground, um, even in
the second half of the book.
Right, we go to the place withthe ornamental grass, the
butterfly garden or whatever.
Yeah, we, we go all the wayback to bezgayeth.
We're in, you know, thecastlevania or whatever, castle
ryle or ryerson, we're all overthe map.
Speaker 1 (50:56):
We're all over the map.
Sorry, I love it so much.
Dave from Castlevania.
Speaker 2 (51:07):
But yeah, there's just we did that like mountain
scaling scene.
There were multiple likeintense action scenes, again
just in the last half of thebook because of the stupid venin
in the chest like wild scene.
The cave scene, the uh freaking, the wyvern on the on the
(51:27):
switchbacks scene, the giganticbattle at the end, jack
underneath the, the groundkilling his dragon.
There's so much stuff thathappened that was just like
breakneck paced excitement.
And again, I'm not a battlesgirly and none of those felt too
battle-y to me so I got to givea shout out to Rebecca Yaros
there, you didn't get too deepinto the battle minutia.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
Yeah.
I feel like she strikes a goodbalance.
You know what?
I mean I feel engaged, but Ican follow along.
It doesn't start to lag, itdoesn't get too battle-y.
Speaker 2 (52:03):
There's a lot of interpersonal interaction, I
think, during her battles, whichhelps, right.
The plot is continuing Violet'scompleting a thing that she was
going to have to complete tograduate and it's like this
really exciting thing.
And that's just in the middleof the battle, right, and we can
all be really excited.
People die, people get superinjured.
We have to worry if they'regonna die like it's.
(52:25):
There's just more to it thanfighting, which I appreciate
yeah, appreciate it, yeah,agreed okay.
So we talked about our favoritemoments, we talked about the
book.
I think it's time to talk aboutour mvps, which is something
that we do every episode.
(52:47):
So we've started doing mvprunner-up and mvp and, since
this is our final discussionabout Iron Flame, we can take
the scores from last discussionand the scores from this
discussion to come up with ourprimo MVP, the MVP of all MVPs
for Iron Flame.
(53:07):
So, jessica, who is your runnerup MVP for this episode?
Speaker 1 (53:17):
Jessica, who is your runner-up, mvp for this episode.
Okay, I will say that for thesecond half of the book it was.
It was neck and neck for a bit,but I will go with for my
runner-up and Darna.
Okay, she came to the forefront, she came to slay and she
definitely did that.
Um, she came to slay and shedefinitely did that.
Yeah, she's there for her,bonded, and I was very impressed
(53:40):
with her.
She, you know, had some snarkwhile she was learning some
different things, working on herwing skills and strengthening
those muscles, but I feel likeshe was very present and very
critical in this half of thebook.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
Absolutely critical.
Totally agree with that.
Did I get a little annoyed thatshe didn't let Violet know
earlier?
That could have helped.
But I mean she did explain itaway.
If you didn't figure it out,then you're not worthy of it.
She's a little snooty a little,a little, but like you could
(54:20):
have saved so many lives.
But no, she did.
She did amazing, this time likehuge shout out to andarna.
So my runner-up mvp is Yesenia,because once again, everybody
dies without Yesenia.
She's the one who figured outthe difference.
(54:42):
She came what?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
She's the only reason the wardswent up.
She came along to a war zone asa scribe so that she could be
there if she figured it outthere, if she figured it out.
And then she figured it out andliterally saved the day.
There's.
(55:02):
Just without her, they all die.
That's where, so definitelyworthy of a runner up spot, in
my opinion.
Speaker 1 (55:09):
Heck yeah.
Speaker 2 (55:09):
All right, Jessica.
Speaker 1 (55:12):
Okay so it was your time for my MVP for Iron Flame.
It is Violet.
I'm giving it to her this time.
I feel like she did enoughgrowth and did enough thinking
on her feet.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (55:35):
Very judgy.
I'm a very judgy reader but I Ifelt like I feel like in the
first half of the book you hadmade the comment about sometimes
you were just really annoyedwith her, and I had that similar
experience and I felt a lotless of that in the second half
of the book.
I feel like she's really cominginto her own and every time
she's problem solving and she'sdoing it in ways that are not
(55:58):
selfish.
You know what I mean.
She's doing it in smart ways,using all the resources at her
um disposal yeah and so I feltcomfortable giving it to her
this time because, as we knowfrom past but are there dragon?
Um, our, our heroes aren'talways our mvps no, those main
protagonists.
Speaker 2 (56:19):
Really, I think we judge them harsher than
everybody else.
Um so I'm glad that violet gotsome love from you yeah, I'm
glad.
Speaker 1 (56:27):
So that leads me to ask critter for the end of iron
flame.
Who is your MVP?
Speaker 2 (56:35):
You're gonna hate this.
Oh no, it's General Sorengale.
Oh gosh, honestly, when yousaid that earlier, I was like,
oh, literally, I've decided Iswear.
Before we started this episodeit was like I'm going to make
sure that I have my opinion anda hundred percent it's her,
(56:57):
because of all the things I saidearlier.
The way she believed she wasprotecting Violet by sending her
to the writer's quadrant, sheenlisted Zayden to protect her
further and she gave them thebooks so she they could figure
out the ward, so that they couldbe protected behind the words
too.
And and then she sacrificed herself, her life, for her
(57:24):
children like, and for the wards, so that the wards could go up,
and saved everyone.
So, uh, as far as impact goes,biggest and best, that's where
we're at I knew it was going tobe a hard line.
Speaker 1 (57:38):
I knew that I was being really exacting with her I
was too honestly before this.
Speaker 2 (57:48):
I maybe I'm just super forgiving, but no, I think
.
Speaker 1 (57:54):
I think a reasonable person could be like that's a
lot, that was a lot, that was alot.
I just, and it's fine, becausea lot of times we are kind of
neck and neck.
It's more fun when we're notit's true right in lockstep.
The way you led with that justmade me laugh oh, let me just
start the podcast with how muchI am not impressed.
(58:14):
With your MVP, with your MVP,it turns out Okay.
Speaker 2 (58:20):
So I have a little note card here that's got our
tallies.
So let's see I think I know whoit is.
I think I do too.
So your MVP last time wasYesenia, so that's two points
for Yesenia, and she has been arunner-up twice, so that's four
(58:40):
points for Yesenia.
Yep, rhiannon got a runner-uponce.
Everybody else has only beennominated once.
Taryn got first from me lasttime, violet got first from you,
so they both have two, andDarna got second, so she's got
one, and General Sorengale alsohas two, so we have Jacinia in
(59:05):
the lead MVP with four points.
Speaker 1 (59:08):
A bookish MVP.
Who'd have?
Speaker 2 (59:10):
thought A bookish MVP with second place tying.
Tying for second Tern Violetand General Swordgill.
Speaker 1 (59:21):
It's good stuff, it is it is yeah, she pulled her
weight.
Yes, through the whole book.
Speaker 2 (59:31):
Through the whole book, Through the whole book.
So yeah, I have no regrets.
I feel like this makes a lot ofsense to me.
Speaker 1 (59:39):
I agree.
Speaker 2 (59:40):
Okay.
Well, thank you so much fortuning in to our sixth episode
of Season 5 of but Are thereDragons, brought to you by your
hosts, jessica Sedai, me,critterxt.
Don't forget to follow us atbut Are there Dragons?
On YouTube, instagram andTikTok and but Dragons Pod, just
(01:00:02):
one T on X.
You can also find your hosts onsocial media at CritterXT and
Shelf Indulgence.
That's it for today.
We'll keep you posted on ournext read on the socials, soon,
hopefully, and we commend ironflame to malik.
Bye, bye.
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