December 9, 2025 • 58 mins
We return to the Empyrean series by Rebecca Yarros, moving on to book 3, Onyx Storm. In this episode, Kritter and Jessica discuss the first half of Onyx Storm, chapters 1 through 30.
Don’t forget to follow us at But Are There Dragons on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok, and But Dragons Pod, just one t, on X, formerly known as Twitter.
You can find Kritter at Kritter XD on YouTube, TikTok, and X, and at Kritter _XD on Instagram.
You can find Jessica by searching Shelf Indulgence on TikTok, Instagram, and X.
Music credit to: Frog's Theme by Nobuo Uematsu, Noriko Matsueda, Yasunori Mitsuda
ReMix: Chrono Trigger "Theme of Frog's" - OC ReMix
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_04 (00:32):
Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where
two friends pick a book at leastone of them hasn't read and work
their way through it a fewchapters at a time.
I'm your host, Critter.
And I'm your host Jess.
And we're here to talk about thefirst half of Onyx Storm by
Rebecca Yarros, the third bookin the Empyrean series.
Welcome back, Critter.
(00:53):
Welcome back, Jessica.
Are you hyped to be continuingthis fourth wing extravaganza
we've been going on?
SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
I am.
It's good to get back in thesaddle, and it's good to get
back to recording.
Um yeah.
Can't wait to dig in.
More dragons.
SPEAKER_04 (01:09):
More dragons.
Feels good uh to be back withthe dragons, I think.
Yeah.
Uh lots of books coming out likerecently.
Um, this one didn't come outrecently, but you know, it's uh
it's a fun time for books, Ithink.
The uh, for example, the Will ofthe Many sequel, The Strength of
the Few, just came out.
So as soon as I'm finished withthat book, this book, I'm going
(01:30):
to that book.
Um, have you read those yet?
They're so good.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
I have not.
I've seen a lot of buzz aroundthem.
Uh, so I am definitelyinterested.
I'm in the middle of a differentkind of spiral.
I have been, as you know, uhdeep in the Dungeon Crawler Carl
series.
And so I have been using that asmy off book when we've been on
break for reading.
So I am now into the mostcurrent book, The Sinevitable
(01:57):
Ruin.
Uh so as soon as we finish thisbook, I will be, you know,
finishing Dungeon Crawler Carl,but then I will be teed up for
more for a new series.
SPEAKER_04 (02:08):
What book, what number in the series is that
one?
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Seven.
SPEAKER_04 (02:14):
Seven.
SPEAKER_00 (02:14):
So it's a pretty long series.
It is, and the thing is, is theyread really fast.
I know that uh Mr.
Jessica would absolutely love itif we did Dungeon Crawler Carl
on the podcast.
He's asked.
SPEAKER_04 (02:29):
Okay, okay.
So uh if you're listening andyou're in favor of a dungeon
crawler carl deep dive, uh uh adungeon dive, as you might say,
let us know in the comments oron Discord.
Uh we would love to hear youropinions about what we should
read next, because as far as Iknow, this is the last one that
(02:52):
has been published of RebeccaYarros's books.
There's going to be more, butthis is the last one that's out.
So I know we have a few otherideas about books we want to
read.
Um, but you know, there's thetime there's infinite time when
we can prioritize anything basedon what you all are interested
in.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
I would also say that I broke my own rule and did
some indiscriminate Googlingearlier, uh, which never works
out for me.
Uh, but thankfully I didn'tspoil myself or ruin anything,
but I did see like part of atagline that gave the impression
that the next book in thisseries might drop as soon as
January.
Really?
(03:33):
I don't know how accurate thatis because obviously I couldn't
click on it to figure out if itwas legit.
Uh so you know, the the nextbook in this series is in the
offing.
SPEAKER_04 (03:45):
Okay, well, that's kind of exciting because I I
feel like when the next onecomes out, presumably we'll
probably put it towards the topof the list.
So we're not quite as behindthis time.
SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
And we'll be really timely, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (03:56):
It'll be very timely.
So uh before we dive in, onelast thing, a bit of news.
Uh Jessica and I actually werein the same town recently, and
it was really fun, in myopinion.
We were in my town, St.
Louis, Missouri, and we did sometouristy things.
It was just a very short, briefperiod of time.
(04:17):
But Jessica, how do you feelabout St.
Louis now that you've been therefor the very first time?
SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
Um, I'm a big fan.
We had a really good time.
Uh, that's as far into Missourias we got, so I can't wait to
find another excuse to comeback.
Uh, St.
Louis does seem like a funlittle city, and I would uh Mr.
Jessica and I both agree wewould come back again.
Obviously, getting to see youand baby dragons in their
(04:43):
natural habitat has its owndraw.
Um so, but yeah, the city wasvery cool.
It's only fair.
You've come to our city before,so a few times, actually.
SPEAKER_04 (04:54):
A few times.
Obviously, that was her WadCon,but whatever.
I was there.
Uh yeah, we were super, superhappy to have you guys visit.
It was really fun.
Um, love that you got to meetthe baby dragon, and hopefully
we'll get to do it againsometime soon.
As soon as practical.
Okay, so shall we talk aboutOnyx Storm?
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Yeah, let's get into it.
SPEAKER_04 (05:16):
All right, chapters one through 30 is all we're
gonna talk about today, andwe're gonna finish it out in our
next episode.
So we started out with Zaydanhaving been I was gonna say
having been turned, but turninghimself, becoming Venom,
whatever.
Um, that was the big bombshellat the end of the last book, and
(05:37):
here we are dealing with it.
So, you know, we've been wedealt with it for 30 chapters so
far.
We dealt with him slipping, wedealt with them deciding to put
a moratorium on doing the deed.
How do you feel about how thisis playing out?
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
Um, I think that it is there are some things about
it that I like and there's somethings that I don't like.
Go figure, right?
Uh there it adds depth to it.
So there are things that comewith him uh turning into venom
potentially, uh learning moreabout how that works.
It's a different kind of magic,it's a different, a little bit
(06:14):
of a different magic system.
So that part interests me.
It sounds like there is somesocietal structure around that
that we get into a little bit.
We hear about sages and mavens.
So, you know, adding breadth tothe world, always interesting.
Uh, one of the things that kindof takes away from it is again,
a lot of violence energy isspent on a boy, right?
(06:35):
So rightfully so, she loves himand wants to cure him to keep
him safe, which I completelyunderstand.
But when when our femaleprotagonist's entire focus seems
to be drawn to um a guy forwhatever reason, sometimes that
falls flat for me.
(06:57):
And and not always throughoutthe book, but there are
definitely times where I'm like,I get it, you have to save him,
but I like it better when she'ssaving the world.
SPEAKER_04 (07:05):
Yeah, it is interesting.
Is that a terrible thing to say?
No, because when you think aboutit, like in her shoes, I would
probably do the same thing,right?
And and there's a characteractually, and I promise we're
not gonna spoil a lot, butthere's a character in the Wheel
of Time that has like a similarhabit.
Um, and it's a boy though.
(07:26):
Uh his name is Karen, andpeople, some people hate his
plots because they feel sofemale focused.
It's like you could be savingthe world, but instead you're
trying to save this woman.
Um, and and that's kind of whatViolet feels like, right?
Because it's like obviously youwant to cure Zaydan because he's
the love of your life, but youcould be saving the world,
(07:47):
figuring out how to kill thevenom because of you know the
Erid situation.
There's six months left on thewards in the other region, like
there's a lot going on, and yourprimary focus is Zaiden.
And to her credit, I wouldprobably do the same thing.
And that's why I defend Perrinwith my whole chest.
Because it's like if it were meand it was the love of my life,
(08:12):
that would be my priority,right?
Is it as fun to read?
No, right?
Like, I don't like Perrin's plotis not my favorite plot, far
from it, actually, but it isdefensible.
So I'm like torn about it,right?
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
Because it's no, I get it.
SPEAKER_04 (08:26):
Yeah, both make sense.
I think for me, the biggestthing about this book, and like,
for example, okay, so I readAvatar like a while ago, and the
first book for me, I was justlike, oh, this is Beauty and the
Beast.
That's that was my firstinstinct.
I stand by that assessment, andthis one in particular, which is
(08:49):
funny because this is the thirdFourth Wing book or Empyrean
book, this one is Twilight.
And I don't know if you readTwilight, but it's I did
Twilight.
It's literally Zaydan pushingViolet away because he's too
dangerous and he doesn't wantto, you know, lose control, and
we can't do it because thewriter of this book is a Mormon,
(09:12):
ironically, and I think thatapplies both ways in both books,
but like it's there's so manysimilarities between Twilight
right down to the scorchedheadboard, right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:23):
Like the leaving the headboard.
SPEAKER_04 (09:26):
Furniture breaking.
There's so many similarities,and um yeah, I had forgotten, I
had forgotten until you remindedme.
Yeah, it just screams Twilightto me.
So that's where I'm at, and I'mjust waiting for the is she
gonna become Venom?
Spoilers for Twilight.
Like, is she gonna become Venomor you know what are we gonna
(09:47):
we'll see, we'll see.
Uh, because yeah.
Speaking of Venom, by the way,do you have any theories about
and and it correct me if I likeforget we already know this and
I'm just spitballing, but thevenom who's obsessed with
violet, weophany.
Theophany.
We have a name, but do we knowwhere came from?
(10:08):
Okay, I actually have a theoryabout it.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
This is absurd, and again, I'mI'm consuming this like candy.
This is like my ice cream on asummer night, right?
So I'm not really getting intothe lore here.
So tell me if this isimpossible, but Zaydan's mom is
unaccounted for, right?
SPEAKER_00 (10:34):
I don't remember.
I think I think there was onemention of her in one of the
previous books.
Definitely not.
SPEAKER_04 (10:42):
That she like left, like I think that she just left.
Like, that's all I remember isthat she's out of the picture.
Not that she died, I don'tthink, but that she's out of the
picture.
And for me, she's beautiful,according to Violet.
She's got a weird fascinationwith Violet.
There's several things that justmake me think, where did you
(11:03):
come from?
Why are you a character whenthere was that other sage that
was upset?
Like, where's this coming from?
And the only answer that I hadwas this is Zayden's mom.
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Okay, that's wild.
That is a hot take, and I'm intoit.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (11:21):
Um, I had just gotten fixated on uh that when
she, and I don't know whichchapter it is, I could find it,
but it's not relevant.
Um, that one of their meetups inthe first half of this book is
Theophany saying, Whatever youdo, when you do switch sides,
you know, please let me teachyou.
(11:42):
Don't go see in so-and-so,barewind or whomever it was.
Um, and so yeah, that was umthat that stuck out to me a
little bit.
Like, why are you so hot underthe collar for Violet?
But I hadn't gotten to anytheorizing, so yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (12:02):
You know me, I'm just like so used to the Star
Wars extended universe whereeveryone's related.
That's where that's where Ilanded, you know?
And you know, I was right aboutBrennan being alive.
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
So Yep, you definitely were.
SPEAKER_04 (12:17):
Maybe I'm right here, who knows?
Um, okay, so speaking of uhPerrin from The Wheel of Time,
and we're not gonna really getinto it, but like the very
beginning of this book whenViolet was kind of starting the
process of I've got this plan,we're gonna find Andarna's kind,
all this stuff, and somebody'slike, Oh yeah, you're the boss,
and she's like, I'm not, I'm nota leader, like I'm just doing
(12:39):
what needs to be done.
No bloody lord.
No bloody lord.
I was just like, okay, MattCoffin, okay, Paranibara.
Like, that's such a wheel oftime thing for somebody to be
like, I'm not leading, I'm justdoing the damn thing.
Yeah, did you did you think thatwhen she said that, or was that
just yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
But honest, to be fair, uh, I I hear I'm no bloody
lord a lot in media.
Like anytime anybody goes, Oh,that's not me, yeah, I hear I'm
no bloody lord.
So I kind of jumped to that.
SPEAKER_04 (13:13):
Okay, well, same.
I mean, we're both very, verymuch steeped in the wheel of
time of it all.
So that makes a lot of sense.
Oh, okay, so I forgot to mentionthis.
Um, whenever we were talkingabout the twilight of it all,
uh, how um Violet is convincedthat like Zaydan is still Zaydan
and everything's fine.
(13:34):
He hasn't lost his soul orwhatever.
When Zaydan's literal dragonconsents that he's not whole,
like, but of course Violet knowsbetter than the person who's or
the dragon who's soul bonded tohim.
I don't know.
To me, I'm just like, Violet,that feels a bit like wishful
thinking.
Denial.
Yeah, denial, major denial.
(13:56):
Um, but do you think I mean, notyou don't have to have a theory,
but like I assume he's gonna beokay.
SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
Do you have the I like to think I like to think
that he's gonna be okay too?
So one of the things that I wasthinking about as we were
finishing up this half was umthe Dane of it all, the Dane
coming back into good graces andredeeming himself and being
useful and not being uh ascumbag anymore.
(14:25):
And um, so I was kind of in themindset of what are they gonna
do with our love triangle?
Are they going to are they goingto whose redemption arc is gonna
be better, right?
Like is Zaydan gonna get savedor is Dane really gonna come in
and swoop in and take the girl?
SPEAKER_03 (14:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
So I don't actually have a theory yet.
I tend to lean towards they'llfix Zaydan.
SPEAKER_01 (14:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
Um, it would be great if she took it a different
way.
Like I'd love to be taken offguard, I'd love to see something
unexpected happen, but yeah,that's kind of what we've set up
so far.
SPEAKER_04 (15:06):
Yeah.
The love triangle, also in this,has become more of a love like
half wheel because we've gotwhat's his face?
Uh the prince.
SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
Um yeah, Halden.
SPEAKER_04 (15:20):
Halden.
Thank you.
It's not Arik, that's thebrother.
Halden, we've got Halden, we'vegot Dane, and we've got Zaydan.
And also, like, what is it aboutViolet?
The catnip that she's got going,where every of the every one of
the hottest men in the entirekingdom is obsessed with her.
Like, what is she?
It's it's a it feels againpretty twilight, actually,
(15:45):
because Kristen Stewart slashBella shows up and all the boys
are coming to the yard forwhatever reason.
Yeah, I guess.
Um, so it's just funny towitness just every boy being
obsessed, hashtag obsessed withthe main protagonist.
Um it's a I guess a trope, butwhatever.
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
But from the second that they introduced Haldan, I
would Haldan, I was like, whywould she date this guy?
SPEAKER_04 (16:11):
Yeah, like everything he does is annoying.
So yeah, how did he woo her?
But I guess she did say she waslike 19 or whatever.
Um I don't see her getting withanybody else.
Like she mentions that Halden'sgorgeous.
She's mentioned before that Daneis gorgeous, but every time she
sees Zaydan, she is justthirsting unbelievably hard.
(16:34):
That I think a transition awayfrom him would feel
disingenuous.
It would feel unrealistic,right?
Because there are all of thesehot men around her, and she's
only ever had eyes for Zaydan inthese in this series.
And so to me, it would be reallycool if I mean I feel bad about
this, but if Rebecca Yaroffkilled Zaydan off, because then
(16:56):
it's like, well, now what,right?
The this is a romanticy.
She could just be her own girl.
She could just be her own.
Right.
So that would be a refreshingsurprise.
SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
Um sorry for the Zaiden lovers.
Romantic.
So I assume that somebody'sgonna get the girl.
SPEAKER_04 (17:16):
Right.
To me, it just feels like it'sgotta be Zaidan because Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
Yeah, she's painted herself into that corner pretty,
pretty solidly with the way thatshe's written everything about
their chemistry.
SPEAKER_04 (17:28):
Oh, yeah.
Speaking of chemistry, I wrotethis as one of my favorite
quotes.
This is the only time that I Ilaughed out loud during the
books, and it was in a good way,because I thought it was funny,
and the way it was delivered wasso just like matter-of fact.
But whenever she was talkingabout Zaydan's eyes being
weapons capable of melting theunderwear straight off my body.
unknown (17:50):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (17:50):
Did you miss that part?
No, did I?
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
I think I missed that one.
SPEAKER_04 (17:55):
I die.
I die.
Like I remember reading it thefirst time when it because I'm
I'm an audiobook early.
And so the first time I wasreading it at a reasonable pace,
like 1.5 times speed orwhatever, a normal speaking
pace.
And I just like laughed and itkept going.
But I didn't write it down.
So I was like, oh my gosh, Ihope when I do my second pass,
you know, to like take notes, Iget to this part so I can write
(18:17):
it down.
And then uh just like earlierthis afternoon, it it went
across it.
I was just like, oh my god, thatwas it.
That was it, that was it.
Let me pull this up.
That's the one.
That is the one eyes, weaponscapable of melting the underwear
straight off my body.
That's the kind of chemistrywe're dealing with here.
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (18:35):
Yeah, I must have missed that one.
SPEAKER_04 (18:38):
And she says something like that, not exactly
like that.
That one was unique, but shesays something like that every
time he walks into the room,just like, oh, he's gorgeous.
SPEAKER_02 (18:48):
Oh my god, he's devastating.
SPEAKER_04 (18:50):
Like just she's obsessed, she's so obsessed.
Sometimes it gets a littletired, but at least she's
consistent.
SPEAKER_00 (18:56):
Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (18:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
So yeah, yeah, I don't I can't imagine that they
would that that that the authorwould veer away from Satan to
your point.
SPEAKER_04 (19:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, so I also have a fun superuh punny thing that I wrote
down.
Okay, so speaking of him being avenom and then being, you know,
like putting the kibosh onintercourse, um, I said that him
channeling during intercoursefeels like it was obviously
(19:31):
coming.
Hey.
SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
Hey, that was like dad joke word.
SPEAKER_04 (19:39):
You're welcome.
I love dad jokes.
Like I will never not love dadjokes, and I apologize if you
hate them.
That's just something I had todo.
It's something I had to do.
If you're listening and hatethem, sorry, but that's what you
signed up for.
SPEAKER_00 (19:52):
So that is part of the podcast now.
SPEAKER_04 (19:57):
Um, okay, so now that we've talked about their
relationship, and I'm sure it'llcome back up because again,
romantic, but can you believethat they messed with the wards?
Totally.
Really?
Because I was like, Yes, really?
That felt like such a huge risk.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
I mean, it was.
SPEAKER_04 (20:18):
And her mom died for those wards.
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
And yet, nothing has stopped her.
SPEAKER_04 (20:26):
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean she did it, so obviouslythat's like who she is and
whatever, but and it's it was anincredible gamble.
SPEAKER_00 (20:34):
But yeah, no, I don't I at risk of sounding
negative there is nothingsacred.
Like she will do whatever ittakes.
SPEAKER_04 (20:46):
Okay.
I mean, in this instance, it wasto further the alliance and help
out the flyers.
So yeah, so that was and Isupport those choices.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
I just think that once she has made a decision
that that is the path, yeah,she's relentless.
Like that's the path.
SPEAKER_04 (21:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I did appreciate, even though Iwas like, bold move, Cotton.
Let's see if it pays off when itcomes to the choice to change
the wars.
That felt so ungodly risky,especially after her mom
sacrificed herself to get themup.
The the lawyering that she didafterwards to be absolved of
that treason was full pardon.
(21:26):
It was satisfying.
I liked that a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
I do think that it's neat that they are.
I do, I do like that the authoris painting a story on multiple
fronts, meaning that I'm notsomebody who thinks about
fantasy from a sociopoliticalstandpoint.
And so it doesn't take a lot toimpress me.
Granted, I I've noted many timesI'm a very passive reader.
(21:52):
Um, but it does impress me everytime she takes the takes the
time and energy to show howZaden and Violet are also
leveraging any social standingthey have or any leverage they
have in Baskia Baskiath tofurther their plans.
(22:13):
Yeah.
You know, they're fighting thatwar on multiple fronts, and the
author is taking the time tofeather that in.
SPEAKER_04 (22:19):
Yeah, yeah.
It is interesting to me, likeViolet, and we've talked about
this in past recordings, butsometimes I appreciate it, like
her lawyering in that situation.
Like, hell yeah, love thebrains, like you do it, do the
thing, girlfriend.
But then there are other timesthat I'm like, what are you,
(22:40):
what is this personality thatyou have?
And in this case, it's whenevershe would go talk to Grady
Markham, whoever was in chargeof the task force or the the
quest squad.
Um, is it Grady?
I can't even remember whodoesn't fully matter, but
anyways, I think it's Grady.
She she would go to the umsanatorium, whatever they're
(23:02):
called Scenarium, scenarium,thank you.
She would go talk to thescenarium and be just like I
don't know if this is like God,internalized misogyny.
I hope it's not, but it feltlike she was just copping an
attitude.
Like she is a second-year cadet,and she walks in expecting to be
in charge of a squad that'sgoing to be crucial for saving
(23:28):
thousands, like the world,essentially.
And she's just like, how darethey not put me in charge?
Like, and and I don't know, itwas um so I don't know if that
makes me some kind of like weirdinstitutionalist or what, but
yeah, that some of those thingsuh got on my nerves.
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
I think your point is valid though.
She is young, you know what Imean?
So I don't I don't evennecessarily think it's gender
politics at play so much as thefood chain, you know, the
hierarchy of it.
Um because yeah, you're still acadet.
SPEAKER_04 (24:08):
Yeah.
Like just because your dragonsare cool.
unknown (24:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (24:12):
I mean, I know you might like speak for them, but
at the same time.
You're a second year cadet.
Like, why would you why wouldyou ever think that you're gonna
be put in charge?
I don't know.
That's just that's just me.
And it might be part of the waythat the like I appreciate the
audiobook narrator.
I feel like she capturesViolet's voice, or at least what
has become Violet's voice for mevery well.
(24:35):
But the way that she deliversthat, it's just very much like,
you know, too cool for school.
Snotty, snotty, and I'm justlike, ugh, it just gives me the
heebie jeebies, but that's justme.
Sometimes Violet and me don'tget along, and in this case,
that's my problem.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Maybe it's to illustrate, maybe it's to
illustrate she's still got somegrowing up to do.
SPEAKER_04 (24:57):
You know, that's a good point.
If that's the point, then yeah,I like it.
If the author instead is like,no, she should be put in charge,
at that, then I'm like, I'm notsure about that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Well, I think I feel like it go either way, right?
Because the people who have beenin charge clearly are mucking
things up, right?
True.
Like, yeah, they are they arefollowing ulterior motives and
not uh you know making choicesfor the good of all.
So uh there's a little bit of methat's like, you know, buck the
(25:30):
system and fresh blood has itsplace, but still you're a
student.
SPEAKER_04 (25:36):
Yeah.
I mean, I appreciate like thechoices that she makes after the
establishment fails, you know.
They're like, oh, well, they'renot gonna let us do this, we're
gonna go on our own.
Oh, this plan is obviouslystupid, we're just gonna break
the rules.
Like that to me feels like a21-year-old girl or whatever,
however old she is right now.
Um, but the like I expect thescenarium to give me command is
(26:00):
kind of like, uh good luck withthat.
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
Um, speaking of the scenarium inthe in the quest squad, Aura
Beinhaven.
Shall we chat about that pieceof work?
SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
Yeah, she is something.
What is her problem?
I don't, I mean, obviously, shehas her marching orders and she
follows them to a vault.
SPEAKER_03 (26:27):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (26:29):
It was um the scene, the scene where she dies, um
was, I thought, very dark, butlike super realistic.
Like I could feel the tensionthat she had.
Like that city that they were inreminded me, again, I keep Wheel
of Time references, guys.
Sorry, of Shatter Logoth,because it's like this city um
(26:52):
that's creepy and like weirdlyabandoned, and they're you know,
it's in um conquered territory,so bad guys could be anywhere.
So I could understand that she'sas jumpy as she is, but it just
went to show that you know, thatshe's way too green, also, that
she let the jumpiness and thefear affect her so much that she
(27:15):
didn't even wait long enough tosee who she was throwing fire
at, yeah, and lighting theentire place and then ultimately
dying.
And the way she died was justlike, ha ha.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
The flip side of that is I was actually more
sympathetic for her in thatmoment.
SPEAKER_01 (27:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:30):
Because think about how scared she ultimately was to
react like that.
Um, you know, I spent the thewhole rest of the time that we
were introduced to her and andseeing her, that she was a
nuisance and annoying, and thefact that it cost her her life
is the only thing that gave meempathy for her, which says
(27:52):
probably a lot more about methan it should.
Um no, it's true though.
SPEAKER_04 (27:55):
It's like, first of all, you made a dumb shit.
SPEAKER_00 (27:57):
She was a scared kid.
SPEAKER_04 (27:59):
Yeah, why was she on this squad?
Like, I I don't know.
It was it was intense, it was agood scene, I thought, just like
to illustrate how it was it alsofelt very cinematic, right?
Like they've they've talkedabout having a fourth wing show
at some point.
Prime Video was gonna do it.
I don't know if it's still inthe works, whatever, but that is
(28:20):
something that I could see.
Like it's it's kind of like theum uh the Harry Potter scene in
the Room of Requirement whenthey get like the wildfire or
whatever in the Room ofRequirement.
Yes, yeah, it's like that's kindof what I was like picturing,
just like this these insaneflames everywhere that they're
like running away from.
I don't know.
And it just spreads, and it justkeeps spreading.
Yeah, exactly.
(28:40):
Um, so I like that.
That was probably that wholesequence was one of the
highlights of this section forme.
Um, just because it felt sogritty and real and did make me
have a pang of sympathy forAura, though I was pissed about
which like I was both mad at herand sad for her at the same time
because she didn't belong therein the first place.
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Yeah.
I had um I had a couple oflittler moments, and I I tend to
go through this a lot with thefirst half of the book.
Um, I had I Theophany.
I'm definitely fascinated byTheophany, and I can't wait to
see more of that.
Although now that you've givenlike this really kick butt uh
(29:20):
prediction, I'm like, I can'ttop that.
That's a really cool prediction.
Well, it could be anything, likeyou know.
Yeah.
Uh so they uh I had mentioned atthe top of the episode how uh
the thing that I like about thisbook so far is we're expanding
the world a little bit.
We're seeing some countries andpeoples and belief systems that
(29:40):
we have not yet met in person,so to speak.
Um, and the one that jumped offthe page to me was Queen Mariah,
I think that's how you say it.
Um, and she's offering access toher library as an incentive.
Uh so again, just anotherthrowaway moment, uh, which
tends to be my favorite.
Um, I thought that was verycool.
(30:03):
Um and uh the other thingshocker, the book puzzle piece.
So the fact that there that herfather used books as puzzles and
um the the way that the authorwrote them to be solved, uh the
(30:25):
the you know, your first love,all of that I really, really dug
um that his books were hislegacy to her and also the key
to how she's going to hopefullysolve this.
SPEAKER_04 (30:39):
Yeah, I I always love in a book where they'll
they give the protagonist aproblem and like your wheels
start turning, like my wheelsstart turning.
I'm like, oh, what is theanswer?
Like, I maybe I could figurethis out, you know.
It's like, is it violent?
It wouldn't make sense becausehe's got three kids.
Like, there's like so manythings that I was like, I
thought it was dragon.
SPEAKER_00 (30:59):
I so I I kind of got part of the way that I was like,
dragon is six letters.
SPEAKER_04 (31:05):
Yeah, that's no, that's pretty good.
I I did not get to his wife'sdragon, but it was a good
solution, you know.
Sometimes, like, no realspoilers, but something like
this happens in the first bookof Avatar, and the solution is
not satisfying, in my opinion,because the moment the riddle
was given, I was like, oh, it'sthis.
SPEAKER_00 (31:27):
It was not hard at all, you know, at least for and
I will say, uh no spoilers, Iwon't say what it was, but I
actually solved the riddle whenit happened, and that should
tell you how easy the riddle is.
SPEAKER_04 (31:39):
That's why same.
So I was just like, if and andthis kid, the main character,
granted, she was illiterate, Ithink, at the time.
So, like, you know, I guess wecan't expect her, but still,
like, still.
SPEAKER_00 (31:50):
Yep.
But, anyways.
SPEAKER_04 (31:52):
Any sorry, anyways, I do love a good riddle in a
within a book.
Like, like, for example, TheHobbit, that riddles in the dark
sequence, like this is nooffense to Rebecca Yarrows,
nothing compared to that.
That was the iconic you'retrying to figure these things
out while the riddles are beingread.
It was just so oh delectable.
(32:13):
I just want to now that now Iwant to read that chapter again
because it's so good.
But it is, yeah.
Yeah.
Did I tell you?
Sorry, this is such an aside,but this that's very me.
And I probably did tell youduring our Hobbit recording.
And if you're listening and youhaven't listened to our Hobbit
and Lord of the Rings episodes,they're still available.
And we we did a very differentformat that we're doing here.
(32:34):
We took them in very smalldoses, like a couple chapters at
a time, and we really dove deepinto Tolkien's works.
So I highly recommend checkingthem out.
But I may have said this duringthat recording, but um I I am in
like this trivia thing wherewith my coworkers, where like if
you win the last trivia season,you become the trivia overlord
(32:56):
who like writes the questionsand stuff.
And my trivia overlord season, Idid a final jeopardy thing at
the very end, which some peoplehated.
But the final jeopardy thing wasI didn't want it to be like, oh,
if you don't know how manycountries are in Asia, then
you're screwed.
I wanted it to be something thatanybody could get, so I did a
riddle from the Hobbit.
Because, like, first of all, ifyou've read The Hobbit, then
(33:18):
you've got an advantage.
And I'd love to give people whohave read Tolkien an advantage,
but also you could just think itthrough.
And so, yeah, it's like thoseriddles have just stuck with me
forever.
And I love them, anyways.
Back to the books.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
No sorry.
We love a good book puzzle, Ithink is the takeaway from this.
SPEAKER_04 (33:36):
A thousand percent.
Um, yeah.
Speaking of puzzles, that kindof excellent transition, me.
They mentioned that there uhthere are like five of the most
six of the most powerful signetsnot being on the continent at
the same time in like a centuryor whatever.
This was at the beginning of thebook.
(33:57):
They're like, you know, it wasin one of the um, what are they
what are those things called atthe beginning of chapters?
We've had this chapter.
SPEAKER_00 (34:05):
Um epigraph.
SPEAKER_04 (34:07):
Epigraph.
We had this discussion before,and some for some reason I
didn't digest it.
In one of the epigraphs, that'swhat the something that was
mentioned, like, you know, thesix of the most powerful signets
haven't existed at the same timesince the last great war,
something like that.
And that got me thinking, whatthe hell are the six most
powerful signets?
SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
I don't know.
I assume that two of them areshadow and lightning.
SPEAKER_04 (34:34):
Yes.
And that brings up anotherquestion, which is why is
lightning so powerful?
And is it because of the range?
Because there's fire wielders,there's ice wielders.
Like, why is lightning sopowerful?
SPEAKER_00 (34:49):
I is it that it's so powerful or that it's so rare?
SPEAKER_04 (34:54):
Well, but yeah, that's the yeah.
So if it's considered one of thesix most powerful signets, why?
Or is it just one of the rarest?
Is there some part of thatsignet because they say they
like develop over time, right?
So I guess something more couldcome from it than just lightning
strikes.
But I guess it is kind of likethat's the closest we get to
(35:17):
like drone strikes or bombs.
SPEAKER_00 (35:19):
Right.
I know when they introduced herlearning her signet that she had
a signet that was the most easyto weaponize, like that she
became an I an object of war.
SPEAKER_04 (35:33):
Yeah, and I guess like dragons, like lightning can
hurt dragons, which is like firecan't, for example.
Um sure.
So, anyways, yeah, shadows makesense because it's like you
know, shadows are everywhere,and if you can wield those, then
you're you could just I mean,what other signets have we seen?
SPEAKER_00 (35:52):
So that we've got the mind wipe situation that
imagined has.
SPEAKER_04 (35:56):
Yeah.
Um I mean, mind reading feelsinsanely powerful.
SPEAKER_00 (36:01):
Pretty insane, yeah.
Um, we have the Riddick has theice new ice path.
Well, oh, but he's got like thewater bending, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (36:12):
Yeah, he's waterbending is a bitch much
better way to and then we havewe definitely had fire, and
we've had um the battlepredicting, which is what like
the general or the admiral orwhatever has.
Which does feel powerful andimportant.
SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
Um yeah, uh weather, working weather, because that
was Violet's mom.
Yeah, but that yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (36:36):
I feel like they would have said like, and here
they are all together.
You know what I mean?
Um Riddick's second signet thatwe've discovered in this
chapter, the uh the traveling, Ican't remember what she's the
distance wielder.
SPEAKER_00 (36:48):
Was it Garrick?
SPEAKER_04 (36:49):
Oh, sorry.
Not Riddick, yeah.
Riddick's the Riddick's the iceslash waterbender or
bloodbender, I guess is what wewould call it from Avatar the
Last Hairbender.
Um, but Garrick's distancewielding.
Yes, that's legit.
SPEAKER_00 (37:03):
That came in clutch.
SPEAKER_04 (37:04):
That did, and I I put I wrote down like that's
going to come in clutch.
Something that's gonna be likehe shows up in this random thing
where they got caught in thetornado because we need to know
that that exists for somethingthat happens later.
And I'm guessing it's gonnahappen at the end of this book
in like the climax, but we'llsee.
We'll see.
Um, the fact that Violet'ssecond signet hasn't been
(37:25):
revealed yet has me like, whatare we doing here?
You know, like is she gonna haveanother?
SPEAKER_00 (37:30):
But she's not pursuing anything, not that that
would necessarily make a signetreveal itself any sooner, but
again, a lot of her energy istaken up with Zaiden and trying
to cure him.
SPEAKER_04 (37:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, they get into some tightspots, and then she's always
like, now would be a good time.
It's like, sure, but we don'teven know what your signet's
gonna be.
So I do wonder if like the timestopping, it's gonna be
something related to time.
SPEAKER_00 (37:56):
Um yeah, because that was super cool, but that
was Andarna's that was it wasAndarna's power.
Yeah, we'll see.
SPEAKER_04 (38:07):
We'll see.
Because I guess it is it'ssupposed to come from the
writer, not the dragon, right?
It's like whatever.
So what is what is Violet's nextone gonna be?
That's the big question.
SPEAKER_00 (38:16):
And is it gonna originate with Andarna?
Like, so I I attribute thelightning to her channeling of
Taron's abilities, uh, power.
Yeah, so it will come fromAndarna, like so what else goes
with time?
SPEAKER_03 (38:37):
That's the question.
I don't know.
I am interested.
Yeah, I am interested.
SPEAKER_04 (38:44):
Like that feels like I don't know if it'll come in
this book.
Part of me thinks like the finalbook in the series is when it's
gonna happen, and it's gonnahappen in like the most crucial
moment.
Zaydon's gonna die.
It's gonna be a breaking downpart two moment where she rolls
back time, like she, you know,reverses 30 seconds or something
(39:04):
like that.
Like that's what I'm expecting.
Instead of stopping it, he'sgonna reverse it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:09):
Sure.
I think that also one of thethings that I'm feeling right
now being halfway through thisbook is that we're halfway
through book three and we stilldon't know what the hell Andarna
is.
So I feel like she's done a goodjob at holding that close and
and prolonging that suspense.
SPEAKER_04 (39:27):
Yeah, I mean, we just found out she was unique at
the end of the last book.
So we at least I would like tohave something by the end of
this book, like maybe we findAndarna's kind.
And so that tees us up to belike, now how do we defeat the
Venom?
You know, like now why can sheburn Venom when other dragons
can't, I guess?
Um, which is something I don'tthink I really clocked.
(39:49):
That like normal dragon firedidn't kill Venom, but whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (39:52):
But let's take a moment to acknowledge the power
of the But Are There Dragonspodcast in yet again picking a
stellar mid-book cliffhanger.
SPEAKER_04 (40:04):
Okay, okay.
Well, how would you describe themidbook cliffhanger?
SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
I think that the mid book cliffhanger was just chef's
kiss because it was us findingout that the attendants in the
new land that we're going to allhave silver hair just like
Violet.
And ain't that a thing?
SPEAKER_04 (40:25):
So interesting, fascinating, even.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um it's it's it's interesting.
It's there there are certainthings about this book though
that um I think because westopped halfway, it's like,
okay, what did we read?
What do we read?
We read them going on a seriesof mini quests.
And the last two mini quests, Ithree, uh depending on how you
(40:47):
quantify them, it's been like,we're going to go to a noble's
residence and we're gonnaconvince them of something.
And that's happened thrice now.
Like one time it was, you know,it was easy.
Like they brought the citrine orno, no, that the citrine one was
the hard one.
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Um, the first one was the uh when they went to see
the guy that was gonna collectviolet cards.
SPEAKER_04 (41:10):
Maybe the guy that cat knows, like that place.
That was easy.
That was an easy one.
It was like, oh, we're here.
This is where we're gonna thenext one was intense because
they kidnapped the prince.
Zaden had to channel all of thatnonsense.
That was terrible, and then nowwe've got this third one, I
think, which is Zayd's gonnahave to do trial by combat, I
guess.
SPEAKER_00 (41:31):
Well, and he's doing it on purpose, like he literally
went in picking a fight, whichis fine, you know, play to your
strengths, dude.
But yeah, um, yeah, no, they goright in fully intent to just
pick a fight.
SPEAKER_04 (41:43):
Right.
So I'm I'm I'm I'm ready for thenext Unbreal.
SPEAKER_00 (41:49):
That's where they are.
They're in Unbreel.
SPEAKER_04 (41:51):
Okay, yeah.
I'm ready for them to find somedragons or do something other
than go on little quests and totalk to nobles.
SPEAKER_00 (41:58):
And I've got to tell you, I can't wait to meet a
dragon that isn't part of theBasgiath machinery.
SPEAKER_04 (42:05):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
I need a perspective from a dragon who is not part of
this rigmarole because I feellike they're going to have some
choice things to say about theImperion and how they have
chosen to continue toparticipate in this.
SPEAKER_04 (42:22):
Yeah.
I can't was it Tairn?
Somebody who said there's areason they left.
This is finding them might notbe the happy reunion Indarna is
expecting, right?
It could be, it could go verybadly.
We could all die.
And to me, it's it is kind oflike I do enjoy, and it's
happened in, I'm not gonna saywhat books, but like some books
(42:44):
and maybe like shows and stuffthat I've watched recently where
it's like the hero's like, Ineed to go do this thing, and if
I do this thing, we're gonnawin, you know, or we're gonna
get the thing we need.
And then they go do the thing,and it's completely not what
they expected at all, and it'sactually terrible.
That's what I'm nervous about.
Like, is it gonna actually nothelp at all?
(43:06):
Well, we have gone on all thesemini quests only for terrible
things to happen.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
Speaking of Tarn, the way that he keeps calling
Zaydan the dark one.
SPEAKER_04 (43:19):
Yeah, it's that distracting.
SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
And part of the it's not distracting, it's I think
it's kind of funny.
I think that he's trolling her.
I think that he's trollingViolet.
Oh.
And I think it's funny.
Um, he he may think it.
I I do think of Tarn as likelike an I'm about to retire
school teacher who doesn't havea lot of patience anymore.
(43:45):
Like he's used up all of hispatience and he's literally just
counting down the days until hislast season is done.
SPEAKER_03 (43:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:53):
Um he's a lot more patient and tolerant with Violet
than he used to be.
Um, but I do think that he istrolling her by calling him the
dark one.
I don't necessarily think thathe believes it 100%, but who
knows?
Um, I think that he's doing itto irritate the crap out of her.
SPEAKER_04 (44:12):
Okay, I like that take because to me, given how
Segael is with Zaiden, which isapparently very cold and not
happy, I just assumed Tarant wason team Segael.
SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
But I never got the feeling that Sgail was a warm
and fuzzy to begin with.
SPEAKER_04 (44:30):
Fair.
SPEAKER_00 (44:31):
Granted, Zaydan is the one who has said that you
know the tone has shifted.
SPEAKER_04 (44:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (44:37):
But yeah, I never got the impression that Sgail
was a uh touchy-feely dragon.
SPEAKER_04 (44:44):
Okay, that's fair.
That's fair.
Okay, so what all what have wenot talked about yet?
Is there anything we've missed?
SPEAKER_00 (44:51):
Um uh I think we talked about how some of the
political intrigue.
We've talked about, I mean, thatlast reveal where Zaydan
accidentally channeled again,and now his eye color is
starting to change, and that isrenting up Violet's concern.
SPEAKER_02 (45:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:12):
Um that Violet and her quest team have like interns
now.
We didn't really talk aboutthat.
We have all these first years,and her first reaction was to
let them write papers.
Um, we didn't really touch onthat.
SPEAKER_04 (45:28):
Yeah, that was pretty good.
SPEAKER_00 (45:30):
Yeah, that's I thought that was pretty funny
because I'm like, you guys arereally only half a turn older
than them.
So this is pretty dang funny.
SPEAKER_04 (45:39):
Oh, you know who we haven't talked about is that
gosh dang Jack Barlow.
It was weird to me.
Oh, yeah, we didn't talk aboutthe venom attack either.
So the venom attack on theschool was unexpected.
Um, they could be hiding inplain sight, which is a little
terrifying.
And the fact that they went torescue Jack Barlow before trying
(46:01):
to mess with the wards.
Yeah.
Why?
Wow, why what's so special abouthim?
I don't know.
And it better be somethingbecause otherwise they obviously
would have gone for the wards,in my opinion.
I don't know.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (46:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, because in my opinion, heis a you know, baby venom.
Why does he matter?
SPEAKER_04 (46:25):
Yeah, other than the fact that he was like one of
their plants, that was prettyeffective.
SPEAKER_00 (46:30):
You know, and but clearly they were able to put
more plants, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (46:35):
Plants.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was an interestingchoice.
Choice.
Yeah.
And Violet getting informationout of him.
None of that information so farhas seemed overly relevant or
helpful, but maybe I'mforgetting something.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (46:53):
I think it was, I mean, that's the first time we
hear sages and mavens or mavens.
SPEAKER_04 (47:00):
Maven is the uh that was a new one.
And I guess he did confirm thatthey can like sense each other
until they learn how to mask it.
And that you you can't justaccidentally channel unless you
already know how to use magic.
So those things, you know, itkind of basically like closes
loops for us where we're notlike, okay, the infantry's gonna
all of a sudden all becomevenom.
(47:20):
We don't have to worry aboutthat, basically.
SPEAKER_00 (47:22):
I also what I got out of that more than even those
pieces was that they can staveoff the hunger by her feeding
him, you know, the dagger orwhatever, like by her giving him
the whatever she gave him thathe was able to suck the energy
out to take the edge off.
(47:44):
Yeah.
Um, so I feel like thatinteraction that was the thing I
took away from that the most.
That there was a there's arelease valve.
Okay, there's a holdovermechanism.
SPEAKER_02 (47:56):
Yeah, that makes sense.
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00 (48:00):
We'll see.
I don't want Jack Barlow to beimportant.
SPEAKER_04 (48:04):
I don't either.
I want him to go away.
I want him to die, honestly.
Like, I got nothing.
Yeah, no real connection withthis man.
SPEAKER_00 (48:11):
We've never been a fan, we've been consistent.
SPEAKER_04 (48:14):
Right.
He's the worst.
Um, okay, so I feel pretty goodabout it.
You feel pretty good about ourdiscussion here?
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
Yeah, I only had one other thing that I wanted to
mention, one other scene that Ihad marked as my favorite, and
that was again another reallysmall thing.
Um, it's when they are on one oftheir mini quests, and they are
finally at a place where thepower doesn't come through.
So um Zaydan is cut off.
(48:45):
I was gonna say cut off from thesource.
Um, Zaydan is, you know, free ofthe burden and he's he's acting
lighter, he feels better.
And Violet makes a comment aboutmaybe we could stay here so that
you know we don't have to worryabout things getting worse for
you.
And Zaydan's response is thathe's not sure if the dragons can
(49:05):
survive here, and he thinks thatthey might even be in pain being
cut off um from magic the waythat they are.
And honestly, sometimes I'm nota huge Zaden fan, but in that
moment, that was like a veryselfless moment, a selfless
observation.
Um, and I found that to be veryendearing, especially since
(49:25):
there's so much concern abouthis soul's current status.
SPEAKER_01 (49:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (49:31):
So uh that was just a really endearing moment
towards the end of this part ofthe read.
Yeah.
So it was a reminder that, like,oh, that's right, Zaydan has
good stuff going on, and that'swhy we want him to overcome.
SPEAKER_04 (49:47):
That's a really good point, actually, because I
haven't really been thatconcerned with the state of his
soul.
Just like, well, they're gonnafigure it out, I guess.
Like, whatever.
But you're that's you know, himhaving that empathy for the
dragons, and he in that sameconversation, he was like, I
know that you would never wantto abandon the people that you
love either.
And so he did show a lot of heshowed some soul there that we
(50:10):
don't always get because halfthe time that we see Zayton he's
just thirsting over Violet oracting super cocky.
So, um, so yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:19):
I feel like the last time I felt that positive
towards him was when it wasrevealed that he had taken on
the markings for all of therebellion kids.
Like that was another endearingmoment that he, you know, wanted
to look out for all of thesekids.
Um, so it was very akin to thatfor me.
SPEAKER_04 (50:37):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Okay.
So every episode of But AreTheir Dragons, we assign an MVP.
And in these books, becausewe're not doing it like little
chapters at a time, we're doingit half a book at a time, we
assign an MVP and a runner-upMVP.
(50:58):
So we're gonna start with therunners up and work our way up.
Jessica, who is your runner-upMVP this episode?
SPEAKER_00 (51:10):
You're gonna be so surprised with my picks tonight.
So I had a little bit of a hardtime choosing this time through.
I feel like I say that everytime.
Uh, so for my runner-up, I ampicking Garrick.
I feel like Garrick is pullingsome big double duty trying to
(51:30):
keep everybody safe.
And the reveal of his uh speedtraveling and the relevance of
it in maintaining those safetiesis a big deal.
Yeah.
So I think Garrick is a solidrunner-up for me.
SPEAKER_04 (51:46):
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (51:47):
How about for you?
SPEAKER_04 (51:49):
I think for me, it's gonna have to be Dane.
You know, or what do we used tocall him, Dave?
Dave?
Yeah.
Now I'm now I'm I considered it.
Yeah, now I considered it.
Um, Dave, aka Dane, not only wasinstrumental because his like uh
(52:12):
translation skills, his languageskills, um, he was also a friend
for Violet, right?
They were they had some momentsof reminiscing and whatnot, but
the biggest thing about it wasthat he retrieved Violet's dad's
texts from his dad's office.
He fully recognized, you know,that he was his dad is not in
the right at this point, eventhough he was super loyal to him
(52:34):
before, and the fact that hewent against his blood family to
help the world, essentially, butalso Violet, because they were
such good friends, really spokea lot about his progression from
where he started as just thisrule following square of a like
I hated him, and now I'm like,uh, he's like actually really
(52:56):
nice.
I want him to find somebody, Iwant him to like get in a
relationship with Kat orsomething.
I don't know.
Like, I I need him to be happy.
SPEAKER_00 (53:04):
I like I said, I considered it, and also I really
liked them sprinkling in some oftheir non-toxic history.
Yes, I really enjoyed that too.
Time before when he wasn'tbeing, you know, hey, you know
what?
Yeah, so yeah, solid, solidrunner up.
Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_04 (53:23):
All right, so uh MVP time, Jessica.
Who's your MVP?
SPEAKER_00 (53:30):
So for my MVP, I picked somebody who I thought
was integral to keepingeverything flowing for all the
plans.
Uh, so I picked Eric.
Eric because he had to step upto uh make up for his big
brother's, you know, wildlyinappropriate behavior um and
(53:53):
put so many things in jeopardy.
And I kind of loved the symmetrythat I feel like Eric stepping
up into that, even though he hasmade it clear from his
introduction, like, I don't wantto do that life, I just want to
do this life.
But he did it anyway because heknew it needed to happen and he
knew it had to come from hisfamily, and he knew that all of
(54:14):
the plans, uh, both politicaland survival related, all hinged
on Violet's quest seekers goingforward.
So he did what he needed to do,even though that's not the life
he wants to do.
And I thought that that was MVBmaterial.
I love that.
SPEAKER_04 (54:33):
So I have to ask, how is his name spelled?
SPEAKER_00 (54:36):
It's A-A-R-I-C.
SPEAKER_04 (54:39):
Okay, so the audiobook narrator pronounces it
Arik.
So when you said Eric, I waslike, totally, I know who that
is.
I figured it's a good one.
SPEAKER_00 (54:48):
It's like the time that you said the dragon teeny,
and I'm like, there's a dragonteeny?
SPEAKER_04 (54:53):
Tiny, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (54:55):
Sure.
So Arik.
SPEAKER_04 (54:57):
Okay, Arik, very cool.
So mine uh might becontroversial, and if you're
listening and you want todebate, oh like give us your
MVPs, do so in the comments oror on Discord.
But I just couldn't get it outof my head that Riddick deserved
some flowers because he wasdoing the most to try to help
(55:18):
Violet.
Like, I the way that Violetphrased it whenever she brought
him in to be part of the questsquad was just like, he has my
personal safety, or like mypersonal safety is his top
priority, or something likethat.
And it was just such a sweetthing that he is like, I want to
protect you.
We do better together.
Nobody else can do it but me.
Like, I've been reading everywaking moment.
(55:41):
Like, he's such a goofball soyou forget that like he was just
trying so hard to be valuable.
SPEAKER_00 (55:50):
He said that in one of the scenes.
Like, he said something about,well, I haven't just been
twiddling my thumbs, like I'vealso been doing the homework.
Because I will tell you, it Iwent back and forth between
Garrick and Riddick, so I'm gladthat you picked Riddick.
SPEAKER_04 (56:03):
Okay.
I'm yeah, I I just reallyappreciated him because he's
been such a goofball this wholetime that I've kind of written
him off as the comedic relief,the Ron Weasley of the
situation.
But he he really endearedhimself to me in this, in this,
in these first 30 chapters.
So I'm excited to see like whathappens with him in the rest of
the book.
(56:23):
I hope him being on the questsquad is gonna pan out in like a
really cool way.
SPEAKER_00 (56:28):
Oh my gosh, we both picked all guys.
Oh I don't feel like thathappens very often.
SPEAKER_04 (56:38):
No, because the last book wasn't Justinia, the
ultimate MVP, like in the end ofthe book.
SPEAKER_00 (56:42):
Yeah, I'm gonna have to go back and check the notes.
SPEAKER_04 (56:45):
I know, I know.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Well, good for us.
You know, we don't discriminate.
Yeah, good job for the boys.
This one's for the boys, Iguess.
Cool.
Cool, cool, cool.
Great.
SPEAKER_00 (57:03):
Okay.
Well, I think that is gonna beit for us, which means that it's
time for us to talk about what'snext.
So for our next episode, we aregoing to finish Onyx Storm.
So it's chapter 31 forward, andwe are gonna read that second
half and have that episode dropfor you on December 23rd,
(57:25):
anywhere you get pods or on ourYouTube channel.
So look forward to that.
And with that, we would like tosay thank you so much for tuning
in to our seventh episode ofseason five of Butt Are There
Dragons, brought to you by yourhosts, Jessica Sedai and
CritterXD.
Please don't forget to follow uson at Butt Are There Dragons on
(57:48):
YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok,and Butt Dragon Pods, just one T
on X.
You can also find your hosts onsocial media as CritterXD and
Shelf Indulgence.
That's it for us today.
We commend the first half ofOnyx Storm to Malik.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (58:07):
Bye.
Welcome to But Are There Dragons, a podcast where
two friends pick a book at leastone of them hasn't read and work
their way through it a fewchapters at a time.
I'm your host, Critter.
And I'm your host Jess.
And we're here to talk about thefirst half of Onyx Storm by
Rebecca Yarros, the third bookin the Empyrean series.
Welcome back, Critter.
(00:53):
Welcome back, Jessica.
Are you hyped to be continuingthis fourth wing extravaganza
we've been going on?
SPEAKER_00 (01:01):
I am.
It's good to get back in thesaddle, and it's good to get
back to recording.
Um yeah.
Can't wait to dig in.
More dragons.
SPEAKER_04 (01:09):
More dragons.
Feels good uh to be back withthe dragons, I think.
Yeah.
Uh lots of books coming out likerecently.
Um, this one didn't come outrecently, but you know, it's uh
it's a fun time for books, Ithink.
The uh, for example, the Will ofthe Many sequel, The Strength of
the Few, just came out.
So as soon as I'm finished withthat book, this book, I'm going
(01:30):
to that book.
Um, have you read those yet?
They're so good.
SPEAKER_00 (01:34):
I have not.
I've seen a lot of buzz aroundthem.
Uh, so I am definitelyinterested.
I'm in the middle of a differentkind of spiral.
I have been, as you know, uhdeep in the Dungeon Crawler Carl
series.
And so I have been using that asmy off book when we've been on
break for reading.
So I am now into the mostcurrent book, The Sinevitable
(01:57):
Ruin.
Uh so as soon as we finish thisbook, I will be, you know,
finishing Dungeon Crawler Carl,but then I will be teed up for
more for a new series.
SPEAKER_04 (02:08):
What book, what number in the series is that
one?
SPEAKER_00 (02:13):
Seven.
SPEAKER_04 (02:14):
Seven.
SPEAKER_00 (02:14):
So it's a pretty long series.
It is, and the thing is, is theyread really fast.
I know that uh Mr.
Jessica would absolutely love itif we did Dungeon Crawler Carl
on the podcast.
He's asked.
SPEAKER_04 (02:29):
Okay, okay.
So uh if you're listening andyou're in favor of a dungeon
crawler carl deep dive, uh uh adungeon dive, as you might say,
let us know in the comments oron Discord.
Uh we would love to hear youropinions about what we should
read next, because as far as Iknow, this is the last one that
(02:52):
has been published of RebeccaYarros's books.
There's going to be more, butthis is the last one that's out.
So I know we have a few otherideas about books we want to
read.
Um, but you know, there's thetime there's infinite time when
we can prioritize anything basedon what you all are interested
in.
SPEAKER_00 (03:12):
I would also say that I broke my own rule and did
some indiscriminate Googlingearlier, uh, which never works
out for me.
Uh, but thankfully I didn'tspoil myself or ruin anything,
but I did see like part of atagline that gave the impression
that the next book in thisseries might drop as soon as
January.
Really?
(03:33):
I don't know how accurate thatis because obviously I couldn't
click on it to figure out if itwas legit.
Uh so you know, the the nextbook in this series is in the
offing.
SPEAKER_04 (03:45):
Okay, well, that's kind of exciting because I I
feel like when the next onecomes out, presumably we'll
probably put it towards the topof the list.
So we're not quite as behindthis time.
SPEAKER_00 (03:55):
And we'll be really timely, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (03:56):
It'll be very timely.
So uh before we dive in, onelast thing, a bit of news.
Uh Jessica and I actually werein the same town recently, and
it was really fun, in myopinion.
We were in my town, St.
Louis, Missouri, and we did sometouristy things.
It was just a very short, briefperiod of time.
(04:17):
But Jessica, how do you feelabout St.
Louis now that you've been therefor the very first time?
SPEAKER_00 (04:22):
Um, I'm a big fan.
We had a really good time.
Uh, that's as far into Missourias we got, so I can't wait to
find another excuse to comeback.
Uh, St.
Louis does seem like a funlittle city, and I would uh Mr.
Jessica and I both agree wewould come back again.
Obviously, getting to see youand baby dragons in their
(04:43):
natural habitat has its owndraw.
Um so, but yeah, the city wasvery cool.
It's only fair.
You've come to our city before,so a few times, actually.
SPEAKER_04 (04:54):
A few times.
Obviously, that was her WadCon,but whatever.
I was there.
Uh yeah, we were super, superhappy to have you guys visit.
It was really fun.
Um, love that you got to meetthe baby dragon, and hopefully
we'll get to do it againsometime soon.
As soon as practical.
Okay, so shall we talk aboutOnyx Storm?
SPEAKER_00 (05:15):
Yeah, let's get into it.
SPEAKER_04 (05:16):
All right, chapters one through 30 is all we're
gonna talk about today, andwe're gonna finish it out in our
next episode.
So we started out with Zaydanhaving been I was gonna say
having been turned, but turninghimself, becoming Venom,
whatever.
Um, that was the big bombshellat the end of the last book, and
(05:37):
here we are dealing with it.
So, you know, we've been wedealt with it for 30 chapters so
far.
We dealt with him slipping, wedealt with them deciding to put
a moratorium on doing the deed.
How do you feel about how thisis playing out?
SPEAKER_00 (05:52):
Um, I think that it is there are some things about
it that I like and there's somethings that I don't like.
Go figure, right?
Uh there it adds depth to it.
So there are things that comewith him uh turning into venom
potentially, uh learning moreabout how that works.
It's a different kind of magic,it's a different, a little bit
(06:14):
of a different magic system.
So that part interests me.
It sounds like there is somesocietal structure around that
that we get into a little bit.
We hear about sages and mavens.
So, you know, adding breadth tothe world, always interesting.
Uh, one of the things that kindof takes away from it is again,
a lot of violence energy isspent on a boy, right?
(06:35):
So rightfully so, she loves himand wants to cure him to keep
him safe, which I completelyunderstand.
But when when our femaleprotagonist's entire focus seems
to be drawn to um a guy forwhatever reason, sometimes that
falls flat for me.
(06:57):
And and not always throughoutthe book, but there are
definitely times where I'm like,I get it, you have to save him,
but I like it better when she'ssaving the world.
SPEAKER_04 (07:05):
Yeah, it is interesting.
Is that a terrible thing to say?
No, because when you think aboutit, like in her shoes, I would
probably do the same thing,right?
And and there's a characteractually, and I promise we're
not gonna spoil a lot, butthere's a character in the Wheel
of Time that has like a similarhabit.
Um, and it's a boy though.
(07:26):
Uh his name is Karen, andpeople, some people hate his
plots because they feel sofemale focused.
It's like you could be savingthe world, but instead you're
trying to save this woman.
Um, and and that's kind of whatViolet feels like, right?
Because it's like obviously youwant to cure Zaydan because he's
the love of your life, but youcould be saving the world,
(07:47):
figuring out how to kill thevenom because of you know the
Erid situation.
There's six months left on thewards in the other region, like
there's a lot going on, and yourprimary focus is Zaiden.
And to her credit, I wouldprobably do the same thing.
And that's why I defend Perrinwith my whole chest.
Because it's like if it were meand it was the love of my life,
(08:12):
that would be my priority,right?
Is it as fun to read?
No, right?
Like, I don't like Perrin's plotis not my favorite plot, far
from it, actually, but it isdefensible.
So I'm like torn about it,right?
SPEAKER_00 (08:24):
Because it's no, I get it.
SPEAKER_04 (08:26):
Yeah, both make sense.
I think for me, the biggestthing about this book, and like,
for example, okay, so I readAvatar like a while ago, and the
first book for me, I was justlike, oh, this is Beauty and the
Beast.
That's that was my firstinstinct.
I stand by that assessment, andthis one in particular, which is
(08:49):
funny because this is the thirdFourth Wing book or Empyrean
book, this one is Twilight.
And I don't know if you readTwilight, but it's I did
Twilight.
It's literally Zaydan pushingViolet away because he's too
dangerous and he doesn't wantto, you know, lose control, and
we can't do it because thewriter of this book is a Mormon,
(09:12):
ironically, and I think thatapplies both ways in both books,
but like it's there's so manysimilarities between Twilight
right down to the scorchedheadboard, right?
SPEAKER_00 (09:23):
Like the leaving the headboard.
SPEAKER_04 (09:26):
Furniture breaking.
There's so many similarities,and um yeah, I had forgotten, I
had forgotten until you remindedme.
Yeah, it just screams Twilightto me.
So that's where I'm at, and I'mjust waiting for the is she
gonna become Venom?
Spoilers for Twilight.
Like, is she gonna become Venomor you know what are we gonna
(09:47):
we'll see, we'll see.
Uh, because yeah.
Speaking of Venom, by the way,do you have any theories about
and and it correct me if I likeforget we already know this and
I'm just spitballing, but thevenom who's obsessed with
violet, weophany.
Theophany.
We have a name, but do we knowwhere came from?
(10:08):
Okay, I actually have a theoryabout it.
Are you ready?
I'm ready.
This is absurd, and again, I'mI'm consuming this like candy.
This is like my ice cream on asummer night, right?
So I'm not really getting intothe lore here.
So tell me if this isimpossible, but Zaydan's mom is
unaccounted for, right?
SPEAKER_00 (10:34):
I don't remember.
I think I think there was onemention of her in one of the
previous books.
Definitely not.
SPEAKER_04 (10:42):
That she like left, like I think that she just left.
Like, that's all I remember isthat she's out of the picture.
Not that she died, I don'tthink, but that she's out of the
picture.
And for me, she's beautiful,according to Violet.
She's got a weird fascinationwith Violet.
There's several things that justmake me think, where did you
(11:03):
come from?
Why are you a character whenthere was that other sage that
was upset?
Like, where's this coming from?
And the only answer that I hadwas this is Zayden's mom.
SPEAKER_00 (11:16):
Okay, that's wild.
That is a hot take, and I'm intoit.
SPEAKER_01 (11:21):
Okay.
SPEAKER_00 (11:21):
Um, I had just gotten fixated on uh that when
she, and I don't know whichchapter it is, I could find it,
but it's not relevant.
Um, that one of their meetups inthe first half of this book is
Theophany saying, Whatever youdo, when you do switch sides,
you know, please let me teachyou.
(11:42):
Don't go see in so-and-so,barewind or whomever it was.
Um, and so yeah, that was umthat that stuck out to me a
little bit.
Like, why are you so hot underthe collar for Violet?
But I hadn't gotten to anytheorizing, so yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (12:02):
You know me, I'm just like so used to the Star
Wars extended universe whereeveryone's related.
That's where that's where Ilanded, you know?
And you know, I was right aboutBrennan being alive.
SPEAKER_00 (12:14):
So Yep, you definitely were.
SPEAKER_04 (12:17):
Maybe I'm right here, who knows?
Um, okay, so speaking of uhPerrin from The Wheel of Time,
and we're not gonna really getinto it, but like the very
beginning of this book whenViolet was kind of starting the
process of I've got this plan,we're gonna find Andarna's kind,
all this stuff, and somebody'slike, Oh yeah, you're the boss,
and she's like, I'm not, I'm nota leader, like I'm just doing
(12:39):
what needs to be done.
No bloody lord.
No bloody lord.
I was just like, okay, MattCoffin, okay, Paranibara.
Like, that's such a wheel oftime thing for somebody to be
like, I'm not leading, I'm justdoing the damn thing.
Yeah, did you did you think thatwhen she said that, or was that
just yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00 (12:57):
But honest, to be fair, uh, I I hear I'm no bloody
lord a lot in media.
Like anytime anybody goes, Oh,that's not me, yeah, I hear I'm
no bloody lord.
So I kind of jumped to that.
SPEAKER_04 (13:13):
Okay, well, same.
I mean, we're both very, verymuch steeped in the wheel of
time of it all.
So that makes a lot of sense.
Oh, okay, so I forgot to mentionthis.
Um, whenever we were talkingabout the twilight of it all,
uh, how um Violet is convincedthat like Zaydan is still Zaydan
and everything's fine.
(13:34):
He hasn't lost his soul orwhatever.
When Zaydan's literal dragonconsents that he's not whole,
like, but of course Violet knowsbetter than the person who's or
the dragon who's soul bonded tohim.
I don't know.
To me, I'm just like, Violet,that feels a bit like wishful
thinking.
Denial.
Yeah, denial, major denial.
(13:56):
Um, but do you think I mean, notyou don't have to have a theory,
but like I assume he's gonna beokay.
SPEAKER_00 (14:04):
Do you have the I like to think I like to think
that he's gonna be okay too?
So one of the things that I wasthinking about as we were
finishing up this half was umthe Dane of it all, the Dane
coming back into good graces andredeeming himself and being
useful and not being uh ascumbag anymore.
(14:25):
And um, so I was kind of in themindset of what are they gonna
do with our love triangle?
Are they going to are they goingto whose redemption arc is gonna
be better, right?
Like is Zaydan gonna get savedor is Dane really gonna come in
and swoop in and take the girl?
SPEAKER_03 (14:47):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:47):
So I don't actually have a theory yet.
I tend to lean towards they'llfix Zaydan.
SPEAKER_01 (14:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (14:53):
Um, it would be great if she took it a different
way.
Like I'd love to be taken offguard, I'd love to see something
unexpected happen, but yeah,that's kind of what we've set up
so far.
SPEAKER_04 (15:06):
Yeah.
The love triangle, also in this,has become more of a love like
half wheel because we've gotwhat's his face?
Uh the prince.
SPEAKER_00 (15:18):
Um yeah, Halden.
SPEAKER_04 (15:20):
Halden.
Thank you.
It's not Arik, that's thebrother.
Halden, we've got Halden, we'vegot Dane, and we've got Zaydan.
And also, like, what is it aboutViolet?
The catnip that she's got going,where every of the every one of
the hottest men in the entirekingdom is obsessed with her.
Like, what is she?
It's it's a it feels againpretty twilight, actually,
(15:45):
because Kristen Stewart slashBella shows up and all the boys
are coming to the yard forwhatever reason.
Yeah, I guess.
Um, so it's just funny towitness just every boy being
obsessed, hashtag obsessed withthe main protagonist.
Um it's a I guess a trope, butwhatever.
SPEAKER_00 (16:04):
But from the second that they introduced Haldan, I
would Haldan, I was like, whywould she date this guy?
SPEAKER_04 (16:11):
Yeah, like everything he does is annoying.
So yeah, how did he woo her?
But I guess she did say she waslike 19 or whatever.
Um I don't see her getting withanybody else.
Like she mentions that Halden'sgorgeous.
She's mentioned before that Daneis gorgeous, but every time she
sees Zaydan, she is justthirsting unbelievably hard.
(16:34):
That I think a transition awayfrom him would feel
disingenuous.
It would feel unrealistic,right?
Because there are all of thesehot men around her, and she's
only ever had eyes for Zaydan inthese in this series.
And so to me, it would be reallycool if I mean I feel bad about
this, but if Rebecca Yaroffkilled Zaydan off, because then
(16:56):
it's like, well, now what,right?
The this is a romanticy.
She could just be her own girl.
She could just be her own.
Right.
So that would be a refreshingsurprise.
SPEAKER_00 (17:06):
Um sorry for the Zaiden lovers.
Romantic.
So I assume that somebody'sgonna get the girl.
SPEAKER_04 (17:16):
Right.
To me, it just feels like it'sgotta be Zaidan because Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (17:21):
Yeah, she's painted herself into that corner pretty,
pretty solidly with the way thatshe's written everything about
their chemistry.
SPEAKER_04 (17:28):
Oh, yeah.
Speaking of chemistry, I wrotethis as one of my favorite
quotes.
This is the only time that I Ilaughed out loud during the
books, and it was in a good way,because I thought it was funny,
and the way it was delivered wasso just like matter-of fact.
But whenever she was talkingabout Zaydan's eyes being
weapons capable of melting theunderwear straight off my body.
unknown (17:50):
Wow.
SPEAKER_04 (17:50):
Did you miss that part?
No, did I?
SPEAKER_00 (17:52):
I think I missed that one.
SPEAKER_04 (17:55):
I die.
I die.
Like I remember reading it thefirst time when it because I'm
I'm an audiobook early.
And so the first time I wasreading it at a reasonable pace,
like 1.5 times speed orwhatever, a normal speaking
pace.
And I just like laughed and itkept going.
But I didn't write it down.
So I was like, oh my gosh, Ihope when I do my second pass,
you know, to like take notes, Iget to this part so I can write
(18:17):
it down.
And then uh just like earlierthis afternoon, it it went
across it.
I was just like, oh my god, thatwas it.
That was it, that was it.
Let me pull this up.
That's the one.
That is the one eyes, weaponscapable of melting the underwear
straight off my body.
That's the kind of chemistrywe're dealing with here.
That's amazing.
SPEAKER_00 (18:35):
Yeah, I must have missed that one.
SPEAKER_04 (18:38):
And she says something like that, not exactly
like that.
That one was unique, but shesays something like that every
time he walks into the room,just like, oh, he's gorgeous.
SPEAKER_02 (18:48):
Oh my god, he's devastating.
SPEAKER_04 (18:50):
Like just she's obsessed, she's so obsessed.
Sometimes it gets a littletired, but at least she's
consistent.
SPEAKER_00 (18:56):
Right.
Right.
SPEAKER_04 (18:59):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (19:00):
So yeah, yeah, I don't I can't imagine that they
would that that that the authorwould veer away from Satan to
your point.
SPEAKER_04 (19:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Okay, so I also have a fun superuh punny thing that I wrote
down.
Okay, so speaking of him being avenom and then being, you know,
like putting the kibosh onintercourse, um, I said that him
channeling during intercoursefeels like it was obviously
(19:31):
coming.
Hey.
SPEAKER_00 (19:37):
Hey, that was like dad joke word.
SPEAKER_04 (19:39):
You're welcome.
I love dad jokes.
Like I will never not love dadjokes, and I apologize if you
hate them.
That's just something I had todo.
It's something I had to do.
If you're listening and hatethem, sorry, but that's what you
signed up for.
SPEAKER_00 (19:52):
So that is part of the podcast now.
SPEAKER_04 (19:57):
Um, okay, so now that we've talked about their
relationship, and I'm sure it'llcome back up because again,
romantic, but can you believethat they messed with the wards?
Totally.
Really?
Because I was like, Yes, really?
That felt like such a huge risk.
SPEAKER_00 (20:17):
I mean, it was.
SPEAKER_04 (20:18):
And her mom died for those wards.
SPEAKER_00 (20:23):
And yet, nothing has stopped her.
SPEAKER_04 (20:26):
Yeah.
Okay.
I mean she did it, so obviouslythat's like who she is and
whatever, but and it's it was anincredible gamble.
SPEAKER_00 (20:34):
But yeah, no, I don't I at risk of sounding
negative there is nothingsacred.
Like she will do whatever ittakes.
SPEAKER_04 (20:46):
Okay.
I mean, in this instance, it wasto further the alliance and help
out the flyers.
So yeah, so that was and Isupport those choices.
SPEAKER_00 (20:56):
I just think that once she has made a decision
that that is the path, yeah,she's relentless.
Like that's the path.
SPEAKER_04 (21:04):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I did appreciate, even though Iwas like, bold move, Cotton.
Let's see if it pays off when itcomes to the choice to change
the wars.
That felt so ungodly risky,especially after her mom
sacrificed herself to get themup.
The the lawyering that she didafterwards to be absolved of
that treason was full pardon.
(21:26):
It was satisfying.
I liked that a lot.
SPEAKER_00 (21:30):
I do think that it's neat that they are.
I do, I do like that the authoris painting a story on multiple
fronts, meaning that I'm notsomebody who thinks about
fantasy from a sociopoliticalstandpoint.
And so it doesn't take a lot toimpress me.
Granted, I I've noted many timesI'm a very passive reader.
(21:52):
Um, but it does impress me everytime she takes the takes the
time and energy to show howZaden and Violet are also
leveraging any social standingthey have or any leverage they
have in Baskia Baskiath tofurther their plans.
(22:13):
Yeah.
You know, they're fighting thatwar on multiple fronts, and the
author is taking the time tofeather that in.
SPEAKER_04 (22:19):
Yeah, yeah.
It is interesting to me, likeViolet, and we've talked about
this in past recordings, butsometimes I appreciate it, like
her lawyering in that situation.
Like, hell yeah, love thebrains, like you do it, do the
thing, girlfriend.
But then there are other timesthat I'm like, what are you,
(22:40):
what is this personality thatyou have?
And in this case, it's whenevershe would go talk to Grady
Markham, whoever was in chargeof the task force or the the
quest squad.
Um, is it Grady?
I can't even remember whodoesn't fully matter, but
anyways, I think it's Grady.
She she would go to the umsanatorium, whatever they're
(23:02):
called Scenarium, scenarium,thank you.
She would go talk to thescenarium and be just like I
don't know if this is like God,internalized misogyny.
I hope it's not, but it feltlike she was just copping an
attitude.
Like she is a second-year cadet,and she walks in expecting to be
in charge of a squad that'sgoing to be crucial for saving
(23:28):
thousands, like the world,essentially.
And she's just like, how darethey not put me in charge?
Like, and and I don't know, itwas um so I don't know if that
makes me some kind of like weirdinstitutionalist or what, but
yeah, that some of those thingsuh got on my nerves.
SPEAKER_00 (23:49):
I think your point is valid though.
She is young, you know what Imean?
So I don't I don't evennecessarily think it's gender
politics at play so much as thefood chain, you know, the
hierarchy of it.
Um because yeah, you're still acadet.
SPEAKER_04 (24:08):
Yeah.
Like just because your dragonsare cool.
unknown (24:12):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (24:12):
I mean, I know you might like speak for them, but
at the same time.
You're a second year cadet.
Like, why would you why wouldyou ever think that you're gonna
be put in charge?
I don't know.
That's just that's just me.
And it might be part of the waythat the like I appreciate the
audiobook narrator.
I feel like she capturesViolet's voice, or at least what
has become Violet's voice for mevery well.
(24:35):
But the way that she deliversthat, it's just very much like,
you know, too cool for school.
Snotty, snotty, and I'm justlike, ugh, it just gives me the
heebie jeebies, but that's justme.
Sometimes Violet and me don'tget along, and in this case,
that's my problem.
SPEAKER_00 (24:52):
Maybe it's to illustrate, maybe it's to
illustrate she's still got somegrowing up to do.
SPEAKER_04 (24:57):
You know, that's a good point.
If that's the point, then yeah,I like it.
If the author instead is like,no, she should be put in charge,
at that, then I'm like, I'm notsure about that.
SPEAKER_00 (25:10):
Well, I think I feel like it go either way, right?
Because the people who have beenin charge clearly are mucking
things up, right?
True.
Like, yeah, they are they arefollowing ulterior motives and
not uh you know making choicesfor the good of all.
So uh there's a little bit of methat's like, you know, buck the
(25:30):
system and fresh blood has itsplace, but still you're a
student.
SPEAKER_04 (25:36):
Yeah.
I mean, I appreciate like thechoices that she makes after the
establishment fails, you know.
They're like, oh, well, they'renot gonna let us do this, we're
gonna go on our own.
Oh, this plan is obviouslystupid, we're just gonna break
the rules.
Like that to me feels like a21-year-old girl or whatever,
however old she is right now.
Um, but the like I expect thescenarium to give me command is
(26:00):
kind of like, uh good luck withthat.
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't know.
Um, speaking of the scenarium inthe in the quest squad, Aura
Beinhaven.
Shall we chat about that pieceof work?
SPEAKER_00 (26:15):
Yeah, she is something.
What is her problem?
I don't, I mean, obviously, shehas her marching orders and she
follows them to a vault.
SPEAKER_03 (26:27):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (26:29):
It was um the scene, the scene where she dies, um
was, I thought, very dark, butlike super realistic.
Like I could feel the tensionthat she had.
Like that city that they were inreminded me, again, I keep Wheel
of Time references, guys.
Sorry, of Shatter Logoth,because it's like this city um
(26:52):
that's creepy and like weirdlyabandoned, and they're you know,
it's in um conquered territory,so bad guys could be anywhere.
So I could understand that she'sas jumpy as she is, but it just
went to show that you know, thatshe's way too green, also, that
she let the jumpiness and thefear affect her so much that she
(27:15):
didn't even wait long enough tosee who she was throwing fire
at, yeah, and lighting theentire place and then ultimately
dying.
And the way she died was justlike, ha ha.
SPEAKER_00 (27:25):
The flip side of that is I was actually more
sympathetic for her in thatmoment.
SPEAKER_01 (27:30):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (27:30):
Because think about how scared she ultimately was to
react like that.
Um, you know, I spent the thewhole rest of the time that we
were introduced to her and andseeing her, that she was a
nuisance and annoying, and thefact that it cost her her life
is the only thing that gave meempathy for her, which says
(27:52):
probably a lot more about methan it should.
Um no, it's true though.
SPEAKER_04 (27:55):
It's like, first of all, you made a dumb shit.
SPEAKER_00 (27:57):
She was a scared kid.
SPEAKER_04 (27:59):
Yeah, why was she on this squad?
Like, I I don't know.
It was it was intense, it was agood scene, I thought, just like
to illustrate how it was it alsofelt very cinematic, right?
Like they've they've talkedabout having a fourth wing show
at some point.
Prime Video was gonna do it.
I don't know if it's still inthe works, whatever, but that is
(28:20):
something that I could see.
Like it's it's kind of like theum uh the Harry Potter scene in
the Room of Requirement whenthey get like the wildfire or
whatever in the Room ofRequirement.
Yes, yeah, it's like that's kindof what I was like picturing,
just like this these insaneflames everywhere that they're
like running away from.
I don't know.
And it just spreads, and it justkeeps spreading.
Yeah, exactly.
(28:40):
Um, so I like that.
That was probably that wholesequence was one of the
highlights of this section forme.
Um, just because it felt sogritty and real and did make me
have a pang of sympathy forAura, though I was pissed about
which like I was both mad at herand sad for her at the same time
because she didn't belong therein the first place.
SPEAKER_00 (28:59):
Yeah.
I had um I had a couple oflittler moments, and I I tend to
go through this a lot with thefirst half of the book.
Um, I had I Theophany.
I'm definitely fascinated byTheophany, and I can't wait to
see more of that.
Although now that you've givenlike this really kick butt uh
(29:20):
prediction, I'm like, I can'ttop that.
That's a really cool prediction.
Well, it could be anything, likeyou know.
Yeah.
Uh so they uh I had mentioned atthe top of the episode how uh
the thing that I like about thisbook so far is we're expanding
the world a little bit.
We're seeing some countries andpeoples and belief systems that
(29:40):
we have not yet met in person,so to speak.
Um, and the one that jumped offthe page to me was Queen Mariah,
I think that's how you say it.
Um, and she's offering access toher library as an incentive.
Uh so again, just anotherthrowaway moment, uh, which
tends to be my favorite.
Um, I thought that was verycool.
(30:03):
Um and uh the other thingshocker, the book puzzle piece.
So the fact that there that herfather used books as puzzles and
um the the way that the authorwrote them to be solved, uh the
(30:25):
the you know, your first love,all of that I really, really dug
um that his books were hislegacy to her and also the key
to how she's going to hopefullysolve this.
SPEAKER_04 (30:39):
Yeah, I I always love in a book where they'll
they give the protagonist aproblem and like your wheels
start turning, like my wheelsstart turning.
I'm like, oh, what is theanswer?
Like, I maybe I could figurethis out, you know.
It's like, is it violent?
It wouldn't make sense becausehe's got three kids.
Like, there's like so manythings that I was like, I
thought it was dragon.
SPEAKER_00 (30:59):
I so I I kind of got part of the way that I was like,
dragon is six letters.
SPEAKER_04 (31:05):
Yeah, that's no, that's pretty good.
I I did not get to his wife'sdragon, but it was a good
solution, you know.
Sometimes, like, no realspoilers, but something like
this happens in the first bookof Avatar, and the solution is
not satisfying, in my opinion,because the moment the riddle
was given, I was like, oh, it'sthis.
SPEAKER_00 (31:27):
It was not hard at all, you know, at least for and
I will say, uh no spoilers, Iwon't say what it was, but I
actually solved the riddle whenit happened, and that should
tell you how easy the riddle is.
SPEAKER_04 (31:39):
That's why same.
So I was just like, if and andthis kid, the main character,
granted, she was illiterate, Ithink, at the time.
So, like, you know, I guess wecan't expect her, but still,
like, still.
SPEAKER_00 (31:50):
Yep.
But, anyways.
SPEAKER_04 (31:52):
Any sorry, anyways, I do love a good riddle in a
within a book.
Like, like, for example, TheHobbit, that riddles in the dark
sequence, like this is nooffense to Rebecca Yarrows,
nothing compared to that.
That was the iconic you'retrying to figure these things
out while the riddles are beingread.
It was just so oh delectable.
(32:13):
I just want to now that now Iwant to read that chapter again
because it's so good.
But it is, yeah.
Yeah.
Did I tell you?
Sorry, this is such an aside,but this that's very me.
And I probably did tell youduring our Hobbit recording.
And if you're listening and youhaven't listened to our Hobbit
and Lord of the Rings episodes,they're still available.
And we we did a very differentformat that we're doing here.
(32:34):
We took them in very smalldoses, like a couple chapters at
a time, and we really dove deepinto Tolkien's works.
So I highly recommend checkingthem out.
But I may have said this duringthat recording, but um I I am in
like this trivia thing wherewith my coworkers, where like if
you win the last trivia season,you become the trivia overlord
(32:56):
who like writes the questionsand stuff.
And my trivia overlord season, Idid a final jeopardy thing at
the very end, which some peoplehated.
But the final jeopardy thing wasI didn't want it to be like, oh,
if you don't know how manycountries are in Asia, then
you're screwed.
I wanted it to be something thatanybody could get, so I did a
riddle from the Hobbit.
Because, like, first of all, ifyou've read The Hobbit, then
(33:18):
you've got an advantage.
And I'd love to give people whohave read Tolkien an advantage,
but also you could just think itthrough.
And so, yeah, it's like thoseriddles have just stuck with me
forever.
And I love them, anyways.
Back to the books.
Sorry.
SPEAKER_00 (33:32):
No sorry.
We love a good book puzzle, Ithink is the takeaway from this.
SPEAKER_04 (33:36):
A thousand percent.
Um, yeah.
Speaking of puzzles, that kindof excellent transition, me.
They mentioned that there uhthere are like five of the most
six of the most powerful signetsnot being on the continent at
the same time in like a centuryor whatever.
This was at the beginning of thebook.
(33:57):
They're like, you know, it wasin one of the um, what are they
what are those things called atthe beginning of chapters?
We've had this chapter.
SPEAKER_00 (34:05):
Um epigraph.
SPEAKER_04 (34:07):
Epigraph.
We had this discussion before,and some for some reason I
didn't digest it.
In one of the epigraphs, that'swhat the something that was
mentioned, like, you know, thesix of the most powerful signets
haven't existed at the same timesince the last great war,
something like that.
And that got me thinking, whatthe hell are the six most
powerful signets?
SPEAKER_00 (34:29):
I don't know.
I assume that two of them areshadow and lightning.
SPEAKER_04 (34:34):
Yes.
And that brings up anotherquestion, which is why is
lightning so powerful?
And is it because of the range?
Because there's fire wielders,there's ice wielders.
Like, why is lightning sopowerful?
SPEAKER_00 (34:49):
I is it that it's so powerful or that it's so rare?
SPEAKER_04 (34:54):
Well, but yeah, that's the yeah.
So if it's considered one of thesix most powerful signets, why?
Or is it just one of the rarest?
Is there some part of thatsignet because they say they
like develop over time, right?
So I guess something more couldcome from it than just lightning
strikes.
But I guess it is kind of likethat's the closest we get to
(35:17):
like drone strikes or bombs.
SPEAKER_00 (35:19):
Right.
I know when they introduced herlearning her signet that she had
a signet that was the most easyto weaponize, like that she
became an I an object of war.
SPEAKER_04 (35:33):
Yeah, and I guess like dragons, like lightning can
hurt dragons, which is like firecan't, for example.
Um sure.
So, anyways, yeah, shadows makesense because it's like you
know, shadows are everywhere,and if you can wield those, then
you're you could just I mean,what other signets have we seen?
SPEAKER_00 (35:52):
So that we've got the mind wipe situation that
imagined has.
SPEAKER_04 (35:56):
Yeah.
Um I mean, mind reading feelsinsanely powerful.
SPEAKER_00 (36:01):
Pretty insane, yeah.
Um, we have the Riddick has theice new ice path.
Well, oh, but he's got like thewater bending, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (36:12):
Yeah, he's waterbending is a bitch much
better way to and then we havewe definitely had fire, and
we've had um the battlepredicting, which is what like
the general or the admiral orwhatever has.
Which does feel powerful andimportant.
SPEAKER_00 (36:29):
Um yeah, uh weather, working weather, because that
was Violet's mom.
Yeah, but that yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (36:36):
I feel like they would have said like, and here
they are all together.
You know what I mean?
Um Riddick's second signet thatwe've discovered in this
chapter, the uh the traveling, Ican't remember what she's the
distance wielder.
SPEAKER_00 (36:48):
Was it Garrick?
SPEAKER_04 (36:49):
Oh, sorry.
Not Riddick, yeah.
Riddick's the Riddick's the iceslash waterbender or
bloodbender, I guess is what wewould call it from Avatar the
Last Hairbender.
Um, but Garrick's distancewielding.
Yes, that's legit.
SPEAKER_00 (37:03):
That came in clutch.
SPEAKER_04 (37:04):
That did, and I I put I wrote down like that's
going to come in clutch.
Something that's gonna be likehe shows up in this random thing
where they got caught in thetornado because we need to know
that that exists for somethingthat happens later.
And I'm guessing it's gonnahappen at the end of this book
in like the climax, but we'llsee.
We'll see.
Um, the fact that Violet'ssecond signet hasn't been
(37:25):
revealed yet has me like, whatare we doing here?
You know, like is she gonna haveanother?
SPEAKER_00 (37:30):
But she's not pursuing anything, not that that
would necessarily make a signetreveal itself any sooner, but
again, a lot of her energy istaken up with Zaiden and trying
to cure him.
SPEAKER_04 (37:42):
Yeah.
Yeah, they get into some tightspots, and then she's always
like, now would be a good time.
It's like, sure, but we don'teven know what your signet's
gonna be.
So I do wonder if like the timestopping, it's gonna be
something related to time.
SPEAKER_00 (37:56):
Um yeah, because that was super cool, but that
was Andarna's that was it wasAndarna's power.
Yeah, we'll see.
SPEAKER_04 (38:07):
We'll see.
Because I guess it is it'ssupposed to come from the
writer, not the dragon, right?
It's like whatever.
So what is what is Violet's nextone gonna be?
That's the big question.
SPEAKER_00 (38:16):
And is it gonna originate with Andarna?
Like, so I I attribute thelightning to her channeling of
Taron's abilities, uh, power.
Yeah, so it will come fromAndarna, like so what else goes
with time?
SPEAKER_03 (38:37):
That's the question.
I don't know.
I am interested.
Yeah, I am interested.
SPEAKER_04 (38:44):
Like that feels like I don't know if it'll come in
this book.
Part of me thinks like the finalbook in the series is when it's
gonna happen, and it's gonnahappen in like the most crucial
moment.
Zaydon's gonna die.
It's gonna be a breaking downpart two moment where she rolls
back time, like she, you know,reverses 30 seconds or something
(39:04):
like that.
Like that's what I'm expecting.
Instead of stopping it, he'sgonna reverse it.
SPEAKER_00 (39:09):
Sure.
I think that also one of thethings that I'm feeling right
now being halfway through thisbook is that we're halfway
through book three and we stilldon't know what the hell Andarna
is.
So I feel like she's done a goodjob at holding that close and
and prolonging that suspense.
SPEAKER_04 (39:27):
Yeah, I mean, we just found out she was unique at
the end of the last book.
So we at least I would like tohave something by the end of
this book, like maybe we findAndarna's kind.
And so that tees us up to belike, now how do we defeat the
Venom?
You know, like now why can sheburn Venom when other dragons
can't, I guess?
Um, which is something I don'tthink I really clocked.
(39:49):
That like normal dragon firedidn't kill Venom, but whatever.
SPEAKER_00 (39:52):
But let's take a moment to acknowledge the power
of the But Are There Dragonspodcast in yet again picking a
stellar mid-book cliffhanger.
SPEAKER_04 (40:04):
Okay, okay.
Well, how would you describe themidbook cliffhanger?
SPEAKER_00 (40:07):
I think that the mid book cliffhanger was just chef's
kiss because it was us findingout that the attendants in the
new land that we're going to allhave silver hair just like
Violet.
And ain't that a thing?
SPEAKER_04 (40:25):
So interesting, fascinating, even.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um it's it's it's interesting.
It's there there are certainthings about this book though
that um I think because westopped halfway, it's like,
okay, what did we read?
What do we read?
We read them going on a seriesof mini quests.
And the last two mini quests, Ithree, uh depending on how you
(40:47):
quantify them, it's been like,we're going to go to a noble's
residence and we're gonnaconvince them of something.
And that's happened thrice now.
Like one time it was, you know,it was easy.
Like they brought the citrine orno, no, that the citrine one was
the hard one.
SPEAKER_00 (41:03):
Um, the first one was the uh when they went to see
the guy that was gonna collectviolet cards.
SPEAKER_04 (41:10):
Maybe the guy that cat knows, like that place.
That was easy.
That was an easy one.
It was like, oh, we're here.
This is where we're gonna thenext one was intense because
they kidnapped the prince.
Zaden had to channel all of thatnonsense.
That was terrible, and then nowwe've got this third one, I
think, which is Zayd's gonnahave to do trial by combat, I
guess.
SPEAKER_00 (41:31):
Well, and he's doing it on purpose, like he literally
went in picking a fight, whichis fine, you know, play to your
strengths, dude.
But yeah, um, yeah, no, they goright in fully intent to just
pick a fight.
SPEAKER_04 (41:43):
Right.
So I'm I'm I'm I'm ready for thenext Unbreal.
SPEAKER_00 (41:49):
That's where they are.
They're in Unbreel.
SPEAKER_04 (41:51):
Okay, yeah.
I'm ready for them to find somedragons or do something other
than go on little quests and totalk to nobles.
SPEAKER_00 (41:58):
And I've got to tell you, I can't wait to meet a
dragon that isn't part of theBasgiath machinery.
SPEAKER_04 (42:05):
Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (42:07):
I need a perspective from a dragon who is not part of
this rigmarole because I feellike they're going to have some
choice things to say about theImperion and how they have
chosen to continue toparticipate in this.
SPEAKER_04 (42:22):
Yeah.
I can't was it Tairn?
Somebody who said there's areason they left.
This is finding them might notbe the happy reunion Indarna is
expecting, right?
It could be, it could go verybadly.
We could all die.
And to me, it's it is kind oflike I do enjoy, and it's
happened in, I'm not gonna saywhat books, but like some books
(42:44):
and maybe like shows and stuffthat I've watched recently where
it's like the hero's like, Ineed to go do this thing, and if
I do this thing, we're gonnawin, you know, or we're gonna
get the thing we need.
And then they go do the thing,and it's completely not what
they expected at all, and it'sactually terrible.
That's what I'm nervous about.
Like, is it gonna actually nothelp at all?
(43:06):
Well, we have gone on all thesemini quests only for terrible
things to happen.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (43:13):
Speaking of Tarn, the way that he keeps calling
Zaydan the dark one.
SPEAKER_04 (43:19):
Yeah, it's that distracting.
SPEAKER_00 (43:21):
And part of the it's not distracting, it's I think
it's kind of funny.
I think that he's trolling her.
I think that he's trollingViolet.
Oh.
And I think it's funny.
Um, he he may think it.
I I do think of Tarn as likelike an I'm about to retire
school teacher who doesn't havea lot of patience anymore.
(43:45):
Like he's used up all of hispatience and he's literally just
counting down the days until hislast season is done.
SPEAKER_03 (43:52):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (43:53):
Um he's a lot more patient and tolerant with Violet
than he used to be.
Um, but I do think that he istrolling her by calling him the
dark one.
I don't necessarily think thathe believes it 100%, but who
knows?
Um, I think that he's doing itto irritate the crap out of her.
SPEAKER_04 (44:12):
Okay, I like that take because to me, given how
Segael is with Zaiden, which isapparently very cold and not
happy, I just assumed Tarant wason team Segael.
SPEAKER_00 (44:24):
But I never got the feeling that Sgail was a warm
and fuzzy to begin with.
SPEAKER_04 (44:30):
Fair.
SPEAKER_00 (44:31):
Granted, Zaydan is the one who has said that you
know the tone has shifted.
SPEAKER_04 (44:36):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (44:37):
But yeah, I never got the impression that Sgail
was a uh touchy-feely dragon.
SPEAKER_04 (44:44):
Okay, that's fair.
That's fair.
Okay, so what all what have wenot talked about yet?
Is there anything we've missed?
SPEAKER_00 (44:51):
Um uh I think we talked about how some of the
political intrigue.
We've talked about, I mean, thatlast reveal where Zaydan
accidentally channeled again,and now his eye color is
starting to change, and that isrenting up Violet's concern.
SPEAKER_02 (45:11):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (45:12):
Um that Violet and her quest team have like interns
now.
We didn't really talk aboutthat.
We have all these first years,and her first reaction was to
let them write papers.
Um, we didn't really touch onthat.
SPEAKER_04 (45:28):
Yeah, that was pretty good.
SPEAKER_00 (45:30):
Yeah, that's I thought that was pretty funny
because I'm like, you guys arereally only half a turn older
than them.
So this is pretty dang funny.
SPEAKER_04 (45:39):
Oh, you know who we haven't talked about is that
gosh dang Jack Barlow.
It was weird to me.
Oh, yeah, we didn't talk aboutthe venom attack either.
So the venom attack on theschool was unexpected.
Um, they could be hiding inplain sight, which is a little
terrifying.
And the fact that they went torescue Jack Barlow before trying
(46:01):
to mess with the wards.
Yeah.
Why?
Wow, why what's so special abouthim?
I don't know.
And it better be somethingbecause otherwise they obviously
would have gone for the wards,in my opinion.
I don't know.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (46:18):
Yeah.
Yeah, because in my opinion, heis a you know, baby venom.
Why does he matter?
SPEAKER_04 (46:25):
Yeah, other than the fact that he was like one of
their plants, that was prettyeffective.
SPEAKER_00 (46:30):
You know, and but clearly they were able to put
more plants, yeah.
SPEAKER_04 (46:35):
Plants.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was an interestingchoice.
Choice.
Yeah.
And Violet getting informationout of him.
None of that information so farhas seemed overly relevant or
helpful, but maybe I'mforgetting something.
I don't know.
SPEAKER_00 (46:53):
I think it was, I mean, that's the first time we
hear sages and mavens or mavens.
SPEAKER_04 (47:00):
Maven is the uh that was a new one.
And I guess he did confirm thatthey can like sense each other
until they learn how to mask it.
And that you you can't justaccidentally channel unless you
already know how to use magic.
So those things, you know, itkind of basically like closes
loops for us where we're notlike, okay, the infantry's gonna
all of a sudden all becomevenom.
(47:20):
We don't have to worry aboutthat, basically.
SPEAKER_00 (47:22):
I also what I got out of that more than even those
pieces was that they can staveoff the hunger by her feeding
him, you know, the dagger orwhatever, like by her giving him
the whatever she gave him thathe was able to suck the energy
out to take the edge off.
(47:44):
Yeah.
Um, so I feel like thatinteraction that was the thing I
took away from that the most.
That there was a there's arelease valve.
Okay, there's a holdovermechanism.
SPEAKER_02 (47:56):
Yeah, that makes sense.
That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00 (48:00):
We'll see.
I don't want Jack Barlow to beimportant.
SPEAKER_04 (48:04):
I don't either.
I want him to go away.
I want him to die, honestly.
Like, I got nothing.
Yeah, no real connection withthis man.
SPEAKER_00 (48:11):
We've never been a fan, we've been consistent.
SPEAKER_04 (48:14):
Right.
He's the worst.
Um, okay, so I feel pretty goodabout it.
You feel pretty good about ourdiscussion here?
SPEAKER_00 (48:22):
Yeah, I only had one other thing that I wanted to
mention, one other scene that Ihad marked as my favorite, and
that was again another reallysmall thing.
Um, it's when they are on one oftheir mini quests, and they are
finally at a place where thepower doesn't come through.
So um Zaydan is cut off.
(48:45):
I was gonna say cut off from thesource.
Um, Zaydan is, you know, free ofthe burden and he's he's acting
lighter, he feels better.
And Violet makes a comment aboutmaybe we could stay here so that
you know we don't have to worryabout things getting worse for
you.
And Zaydan's response is thathe's not sure if the dragons can
(49:05):
survive here, and he thinks thatthey might even be in pain being
cut off um from magic the waythat they are.
And honestly, sometimes I'm nota huge Zaden fan, but in that
moment, that was like a veryselfless moment, a selfless
observation.
Um, and I found that to be veryendearing, especially since
(49:25):
there's so much concern abouthis soul's current status.
SPEAKER_01 (49:30):
Right.
SPEAKER_00 (49:31):
So uh that was just a really endearing moment
towards the end of this part ofthe read.
Yeah.
So it was a reminder that, like,oh, that's right, Zaydan has
good stuff going on, and that'swhy we want him to overcome.
SPEAKER_04 (49:47):
That's a really good point, actually, because I
haven't really been thatconcerned with the state of his
soul.
Just like, well, they're gonnafigure it out, I guess.
Like, whatever.
But you're that's you know, himhaving that empathy for the
dragons, and he in that sameconversation, he was like, I
know that you would never wantto abandon the people that you
love either.
And so he did show a lot of heshowed some soul there that we
(50:10):
don't always get because halfthe time that we see Zayton he's
just thirsting over Violet oracting super cocky.
So, um, so yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (50:19):
I feel like the last time I felt that positive
towards him was when it wasrevealed that he had taken on
the markings for all of therebellion kids.
Like that was another endearingmoment that he, you know, wanted
to look out for all of thesekids.
Um, so it was very akin to thatfor me.
SPEAKER_04 (50:37):
Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.
Okay.
So every episode of But AreTheir Dragons, we assign an MVP.
And in these books, becausewe're not doing it like little
chapters at a time, we're doingit half a book at a time, we
assign an MVP and a runner-upMVP.
(50:58):
So we're gonna start with therunners up and work our way up.
Jessica, who is your runner-upMVP this episode?
SPEAKER_00 (51:10):
You're gonna be so surprised with my picks tonight.
So I had a little bit of a hardtime choosing this time through.
I feel like I say that everytime.
Uh, so for my runner-up, I ampicking Garrick.
I feel like Garrick is pullingsome big double duty trying to
(51:30):
keep everybody safe.
And the reveal of his uh speedtraveling and the relevance of
it in maintaining those safetiesis a big deal.
Yeah.
So I think Garrick is a solidrunner-up for me.
SPEAKER_04 (51:46):
Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00 (51:47):
How about for you?
SPEAKER_04 (51:49):
I think for me, it's gonna have to be Dane.
You know, or what do we used tocall him, Dave?
Dave?
Yeah.
Now I'm now I'm I considered it.
Yeah, now I considered it.
Um, Dave, aka Dane, not only wasinstrumental because his like uh
(52:12):
translation skills, his languageskills, um, he was also a friend
for Violet, right?
They were they had some momentsof reminiscing and whatnot, but
the biggest thing about it wasthat he retrieved Violet's dad's
texts from his dad's office.
He fully recognized, you know,that he was his dad is not in
the right at this point, eventhough he was super loyal to him
(52:34):
before, and the fact that hewent against his blood family to
help the world, essentially, butalso Violet, because they were
such good friends, really spokea lot about his progression from
where he started as just thisrule following square of a like
I hated him, and now I'm like,uh, he's like actually really
(52:56):
nice.
I want him to find somebody, Iwant him to like get in a
relationship with Kat orsomething.
I don't know.
Like, I I need him to be happy.
SPEAKER_00 (53:04):
I like I said, I considered it, and also I really
liked them sprinkling in some oftheir non-toxic history.
Yes, I really enjoyed that too.
Time before when he wasn'tbeing, you know, hey, you know
what?
Yeah, so yeah, solid, solidrunner up.
Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_04 (53:23):
All right, so uh MVP time, Jessica.
Who's your MVP?
SPEAKER_00 (53:30):
So for my MVP, I picked somebody who I thought
was integral to keepingeverything flowing for all the
plans.
Uh, so I picked Eric.
Eric because he had to step upto uh make up for his big
brother's, you know, wildlyinappropriate behavior um and
(53:53):
put so many things in jeopardy.
And I kind of loved the symmetrythat I feel like Eric stepping
up into that, even though he hasmade it clear from his
introduction, like, I don't wantto do that life, I just want to
do this life.
But he did it anyway because heknew it needed to happen and he
knew it had to come from hisfamily, and he knew that all of
(54:14):
the plans, uh, both politicaland survival related, all hinged
on Violet's quest seekers goingforward.
So he did what he needed to do,even though that's not the life
he wants to do.
And I thought that that was MVBmaterial.
I love that.
SPEAKER_04 (54:33):
So I have to ask, how is his name spelled?
SPEAKER_00 (54:36):
It's A-A-R-I-C.
SPEAKER_04 (54:39):
Okay, so the audiobook narrator pronounces it
Arik.
So when you said Eric, I waslike, totally, I know who that
is.
I figured it's a good one.
SPEAKER_00 (54:48):
It's like the time that you said the dragon teeny,
and I'm like, there's a dragonteeny?
SPEAKER_04 (54:53):
Tiny, but yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (54:55):
Sure.
So Arik.
SPEAKER_04 (54:57):
Okay, Arik, very cool.
So mine uh might becontroversial, and if you're
listening and you want todebate, oh like give us your
MVPs, do so in the comments oror on Discord.
But I just couldn't get it outof my head that Riddick deserved
some flowers because he wasdoing the most to try to help
(55:18):
Violet.
Like, I the way that Violetphrased it whenever she brought
him in to be part of the questsquad was just like, he has my
personal safety, or like mypersonal safety is his top
priority, or something likethat.
And it was just such a sweetthing that he is like, I want to
protect you.
We do better together.
Nobody else can do it but me.
Like, I've been reading everywaking moment.
(55:41):
Like, he's such a goofball soyou forget that like he was just
trying so hard to be valuable.
SPEAKER_00 (55:50):
He said that in one of the scenes.
Like, he said something about,well, I haven't just been
twiddling my thumbs, like I'vealso been doing the homework.
Because I will tell you, it Iwent back and forth between
Garrick and Riddick, so I'm gladthat you picked Riddick.
SPEAKER_04 (56:03):
Okay.
I'm yeah, I I just reallyappreciated him because he's
been such a goofball this wholetime that I've kind of written
him off as the comedic relief,the Ron Weasley of the
situation.
But he he really endearedhimself to me in this, in this,
in these first 30 chapters.
So I'm excited to see like whathappens with him in the rest of
the book.
(56:23):
I hope him being on the questsquad is gonna pan out in like a
really cool way.
SPEAKER_00 (56:28):
Oh my gosh, we both picked all guys.
Oh I don't feel like thathappens very often.
SPEAKER_04 (56:38):
No, because the last book wasn't Justinia, the
ultimate MVP, like in the end ofthe book.
SPEAKER_00 (56:42):
Yeah, I'm gonna have to go back and check the notes.
SPEAKER_04 (56:45):
I know, I know.
Yeah.
Uh-huh.
Okay.
Well, good for us.
You know, we don't discriminate.
Yeah, good job for the boys.
This one's for the boys, Iguess.
Cool.
Cool, cool, cool.
Great.
SPEAKER_00 (57:03):
Okay.
Well, I think that is gonna beit for us, which means that it's
time for us to talk about what'snext.
So for our next episode, we aregoing to finish Onyx Storm.
So it's chapter 31 forward, andwe are gonna read that second
half and have that episode dropfor you on December 23rd,
(57:25):
anywhere you get pods or on ourYouTube channel.
So look forward to that.
And with that, we would like tosay thank you so much for tuning
in to our seventh episode ofseason five of Butt Are There
Dragons, brought to you by yourhosts, Jessica Sedai and
CritterXD.
Please don't forget to follow uson at Butt Are There Dragons on
(57:48):
YouTube, Instagram, and TikTok,and Butt Dragon Pods, just one T
on X.
You can also find your hosts onsocial media as CritterXD and
Shelf Indulgence.
That's it for us today.
We commend the first half ofOnyx Storm to Malik.
Thank you.
SPEAKER_01 (58:07):
Bye.
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