From Childhood Dreams to Cockpit Reality: A Pilot's Perspective

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Take flight with us as we explore the fascinating world of commercial aviation through the eyes of a veteran pilot. In this captivating conversation, our guest John shares his remarkable journey from a wide-eyed four-year-old experiencing his first helicopter ride at a county fair to becoming an accomplished airline captain. 

What truly sets this episode apart is John's candid breakdown of what it actually takes to earn your wings. Far from an overnight achievement, he details the seven-year path of intense training, certification challenges, and the methodical building of flight hours through instruction and charter work before landing professional flying positions. His story powerfully illustrates that aviation careers, while accessible, demand extraordinary dedication and perseverance.

Beyond career pathways, John pulls back the curtain on pilots' daily realities that passengers never see. From the extensive pre-flight planning and weather analysis that happens hours before departure to the surprisingly intense simulator training sessions every nine months where pilots face worst-case scenarios under intense scrutiny. We explore the misconception about glamorous layovers (spoiler: most involve simply resting for the next demanding day) and the crucial importance of crew familiarity and coordination.

Whether you're an aviation enthusiast, considering a pilot career, or simply curious about what's happening in the cockpit during your next flight, this episode delivers fascinating insights into one of the world's most demanding yet rewarding professions. Listen now for a first-class journey into the pilot's perspective!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
What's it like to be a pilot?
How do you become a pilot?
What is your circadian rhythm?
All this next on Cabin Pressure.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
What up, what up, what up.

Speaker 1 (00:40):
I was waiting for that one man, you know I had to
come in with another one.
Oh my God, what is going on?
That one man, you know I had tocome in with that one.

Speaker 2 (00:45):
Oh my God, what is going on this week, man?
The weather is absolutelyfreaking.
Gorgeous outside.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
The weather right now in Northeast Ohio is amazing,
and I am just loving it.

Speaker 2 (00:56):
Oh, absolutely man.

Speaker 1 (00:58):
I'm doing that photography class right now and
I got this like doing this thingon sustainability and it's just
been great to be out theretaking pictures and you know, I
just drive around thecountryside taking these
pictures and stuff and put allthe shit together.
But we're not gonna get intothat.
But it's gonna be beautifulweather, beautiful weather, but
uh, hey, you know, um, I wastalking the other day um to the

(01:20):
wife and to uh the one, uh theone of our friends and stuff,
and we were talking aboutsleeping and and how important
um sleeping is, and we got intothis like conversation.
I was just like you know what?
You know, a lot of people don'ttake sleeping seriously.
You know, like I mean, theydon't, they don't think that
sleeping is important in theirlife.

(01:41):
They just buy these like little, uh, you know a hundred dollar
beds and sleep on these boardsand I'm thinking like a one
third of your life you'respending sleeping.
What do you think about that?

Speaker 2 (01:51):
A lot more people sleep than than, than uh, than
anything else.
Seriously, you talk about a lotof these flight attendants.
They, a lot of them, uh, they.
All they do is talk about thesleep that they don't get right
on the layovers.
But you know what I found outwith that, sean?
Truly is this for me, becauseyou know I don't sleep that much
anyway.

Speaker 1 (02:09):
Right, you like three , four hours a night.
Some of that.

Speaker 2 (02:14):
Well, I'm a deep sleeper.
You better talk to me before Iget my ass in that bed, because
as soon as I get in bed, I'm out.
I'm checked out, I'm I'mchecked out.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:21):
But the big thing, what I found out with that is a
long time ago.
This is what I, this is what Istarted doing.
I don't think about how manyhours of sleep I get I never do.
And what I found is, when Idon't think about it, I just go
to bed, and it doesn't matterwhat time I go to bed or what
time that I get up.
I do not think about how manyhours of sleep I get, and I

(02:43):
sleep so much better because Idon't think about it.

Speaker 1 (02:46):
Right, I mean, I'm a huge sleeper, like I'm a bear,
like I can knock out 10 hours,like there's no problem.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
A lot of people can't stay in bed that long, but a
lot of times, though, do youthink that you think about how
many hours of sleep you need?

Speaker 1 (03:00):
No, no, no, I don't.
I don't normally do that, butyou know, in the airline
business is like.
I started thinking about this,like it is super important, like
our sleep, cause we're alwaysin these different time zones
and flying around the worlddifferent places and you this,
the circadian rhythm of yourbody is just like it's wild.
So I pulled up this like alittle chart and you can't see
this chart, but it was like justan example of the circadian

(03:27):
rhythm, of of, uh, everything,and and one of the things that
said it was like oh, there'sthese like highlights to
everything, and the one thingthat kind of jumped out to me is
like like at um nine o'clock inthe morning is the highest
testosterone level you know, andI'm disagreeing with that at 8
30, you have a bowel movementlikely.

Speaker 2 (03:47):
So I mean that might be true, but the nine o'clock
part, uh, no, I'm sayingdisagree with that one.

Speaker 1 (03:56):
It's like circadian, like I, I got a rhythm to me.
Like I got a rhythm as well.
Like we all have our bodyrhythm as far as like sleep and
and in how we function and allthat stuff.
And you know, I don't normallytake a shit at 8 30 it's
probably earlier than that butevery time I get home off a trip
it's like clockwork right andthat testosterone depends on
what you're thinking right,exactly right, but is it?

(04:18):
but you know, hey, hey, it wasinteresting.
But I got to thinking I'm likeyou.
People spend like hundreds ofthousands of dollars on their
car you know a car.
You're going to be spending,like you know, 1% of your life
in this car, you know, andthey'll spend tons and tons of
money, but they won't spend anymoney on their bed.
Nope, they're going to spend athird of their life in there

(04:40):
sitting on a bed and, uh, youknow, I, I invest in like a
major bed.
I got sitting on a bed and, uh,you know, I, I invest in like a
major bed.
I got one of those temperputics, adjustable beds, all this
stuff does all this crazy stuff.
But I highly recommend peoplethink about, like you know, your
sleep is super important and toyour health and your, uh,
lifespan.
So, uh, it was just somethingthat kind of gave me.
And then the other thing thatcame up is I was like what the

(05:02):
hell happened to waterbeds?

Speaker 2 (05:04):
Anybody, yeah.
But you know something?
Go back.
I know I had a waterbed, youhad a waterbed, oh, I did.
I did Now the waterbed.
It was great initially and thenI had all kinds of back
problems.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
I mean it kind of sucked and then it got cold too.
Yeah, you get cold.
Those things have you ever?
Did you ever wake up in yourwaterbed and you're like you
were wet and I'm not?
I'm not saying like a wettestosterone thing?

Speaker 2 (05:34):
again, because I don't know.
I don't know where you're goingwith this.
We went from uh rhythms towaterbeds to motion this is all
centered around this sleep thing.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
It was just like it got me thinking.

Speaker 2 (05:47):
Kind of reeling it back in.

Speaker 1 (05:48):
Yeah, we're reeling it back in, but anyways, you
know that's what I've been doing.
You know, normal, normal.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
But you know, touch on that.
One more thing with that too,is when you lay over and you go
into hotel rooms sucky beds,sucky sleep, right, I mean, you
know cause you?
You'll sink in the middle of it.
You don't have a good bed, it'snot, it's not firm and it just
sucks.
And you go on the other one andit's just as bad as that one.

Speaker 1 (06:09):
And that's why it's so important, like, when we get
home, we need a good bed.
Yeah, you know, spend somemoney on your bed.

Speaker 2 (06:15):
Exactly Cause you want your testosterone level
going up at nine o'clock becauseat eight, 30, you know, know,
this is 8 30, but yourtestosterone is at nine.
It's kind of jacked up.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
I don't know.
This is just an example.
Everyone's different.
You know everyone had.
This is an example but okay.
Example that you went to thebathroom at 8 30, your
testosterone level was at nineyeah, and then at like at um,
what does it say here at aboutnine o'clock at night?
It says that bowel movement issuppressed.

Speaker 2 (06:48):
We're starting off the show talking about shit.

Speaker 1 (06:50):
Right, well, this is what we talk about.
Shit on this show we do.
Yes.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Anyways what you been up to, panama City, man.
Okay, listen.
First of all, you know,three-day trip again.
Yeah, you're such a junior pukenow.
No, you know it was worth a lotof money If I'm doing it.
It was worth a lot of money.
But let me tell you I paid forthat shit because flying down
there, flying down to PanamaCity, man, sean, I'm telling you
it's like a whole differentworld on board that airplane.

(07:20):
Dude, it's a third worldcountry, it's a freaking whole
different world.
Man, I mean, you get on theplane.
Nobody listens to shit.
No, nobody listens to a damnthing that you're saying.
I don't care, I don't care whenyou say it, how you say it
language speaker, not languagespeaker.
They don't listen to shit.

Speaker 1 (07:36):
It's like there's like zero respect for authority
down there.
I mean, that's how I kind offeel you get down like anything
goes in Panama.

Speaker 2 (07:43):
You get off the plane that part of the country,
though Not just there, that partof the country.

Speaker 1 (07:52):
Well, central America is a little loose, that's one
way to say it, right.

Speaker 2 (07:55):
Just a little bit.
But you know the other thingthat was crazy down there all
the high-rises, skyscrapers, allthat stuff, just that skyline.
When you're driving downtownpanama city, man, oh man, it is
freaking crazy.
Those buildings, some of thosebuildings are so freaking close.
I swear to god you could reachout and you could touch
somebody's balcony hey, not tomention there's some cool ass

(08:16):
architecture there.

Speaker 1 (08:17):
They do.
They got some of thosebuildings and stuff.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yeah, they got like a corkscrew one yeah, the
Architectural stuff, but thenokay, they have those really
cool buildings.
And then if you were like onfloor one or floor two and
you're looking out, then all ofa sudden there's like all this
shit.
I mean it's just poverty.
It's just poverty.

Speaker 1 (08:38):
It's a city like embedded in filth.

Speaker 2 (08:41):
It's unbelievable.
And then you're looking at thebay.

Speaker 1 (08:45):
You're like, okay, I got this beautiful uh water, uh
view, right, not so, not sobeautiful no, yeah, because
there's about a hundred thousandfreaking container ships out
there waiting to go through thecanal and some of them.

Speaker 2 (08:57):
Some of them are just literally broken down out there
right they're upside down,right, I mean it's.
It's absolutely crazy, but whatI did find find, though, is
that the buildings are actuallyreally cool.
Yeah, they are cool.
I mean they have some reallycool buildings there, but yeah,
I mean it was Panama City, andno, my ass will not be going
back for a while.
I mean, it cured me, I meanseriously that flight.

(09:20):
It cured me.

Speaker 1 (09:21):
The one beautiful thing about being a flight
attendant is this we get to seethe world, and we get to see all
different levels of the world,and what it does for me is it
makes it more respective.
You know, full of what I havehere in America.

Speaker 2 (09:35):
Got to say one more thing too.
When I came back through Sean,I'm not shitting you Through
security, not even here, I swearto God I thought, thought I was
gonna be in my boxers, real,real, right, they.
I mean belt, that what.
I'm like, what do you need mywallet out for?
And I was like belt wallet,take your sweater off.
I'm like next thing you know,I'm gonna be taking this whole
damn uniform off standing therein my boxers yes, well, they

(09:56):
maybe wanted you to.

Speaker 1 (09:57):
Yeah, there's been a lot of naked people running
through airports lately yeah,well, they, they gave.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
they gave the other guy a pat down.
He had a bad hip yeah.

Speaker 1 (10:09):
That's the life of a flight attendant, but anyways,
yeah, hey, you know we wanted towelcome on our show our guest.
This week we got a guest.
We brought in a pilot, a veryclose friend of ours, john.
He's been a pilot for some timeand we just wanted to welcome

(10:29):
him.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
This is one of the coolest freaking dudes flying.
It was flying, I mean straightout man and loved flying with
him many, many years and I'm soglad that he's here today.

Speaker 3 (10:42):
Yeah Well, thanks guys.
I was just listening to yourwhole intro there and thinking
this is so cool.
Yeah, I've never been on apodcast.
Actually, not very many peoplefind what I have to say very
interesting, I guess.

Speaker 1 (10:54):
Yeah, I don't think you're underestimating yourself.
You know what?
One of the things about apodcast is that people think you
know this is like super hightech and you know you have to be
.
You know there's all this likeimportant shit happening.
There really isn't.
This is just bullshit.

Speaker 2 (11:12):
Right, and that's what we're going to do.
It's like me and you in thecockpit.

Speaker 3 (11:16):
Yeah Right, it's nice , I mean it's.
But, you guys make everybodyfeel at home, oh good.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Good, oh, good, good, good, good, yeah, hey, so you
know.
One of our first questions,john, is this how'd you become a
pilot and how'd you get startedin aviation?

Speaker 3 (11:29):
Well, I think you and I had discussed it at one time.
For sure, gary and I havediscussed it, but when I was
four years old, four or five wasborn in Charlotte, north
Carolina, okay, and I remembermy dad took me to the county
fair and they were givenhelicopter rides and it was a
Bell 47, which is like a mashstyle.

(11:50):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 1 (11:51):
Is that like a what they used to call a?
What's the Vietnam paracopterthey're talking about?

Speaker 3 (11:56):
A Huey, yeah, a Huey oh no, it's the precursor to all
this stuff.
Oh, okay, gotcha, I didn't getno damn credit for known as a
Huey.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
What's that?
I didn't get any credit forknown as a Huey, but go ahead,
John.
Well, that was good.
Star for G.

Speaker 3 (12:09):
Yeah, no, it's more like did you ever see the TV
show MASH?
Oh, yeah, yeah yeah, the bubble.
The beginning one, the bubbleone, oh yeah, paid for a ride
and we went for a ride in it andI just remember looking down
and seeing all the little roadsand little cars and all that
stuff and I thought this is socool.
Yeah, you know and then I had anuncle who was a world war two

(12:32):
vet, who flew for the Navy, andhe would come into town every
once in a while with his reservestuff and I'd get to go out to
the airport and walk through theairplanes, and so I always
thought you know something Iwant to do, and through the
airplanes.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
And so I always thought you know something I
want to do, and it got got realnerdy too, I mean when I was, uh
, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,
wait, wait, wait.
I'm just going to like stopright there because, um, I
haven't met too many non nerdpilots.

Speaker 3 (12:53):
Oh, good, good, so I fit into your my pre-conception
of pilots Like it's it's, it'sright, but you're a cool man.
I appreciate that and thanksfor letting me hang with the
cool kids.

Speaker 2 (13:06):
He's like sitting in the front of the bus Actually,
he's always in the front of thebus.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
He's always been driving the bus.
That's good.

Speaker 3 (13:14):
So I mean I can remember as a kid, even being
sick at home, my parents had abox fan.
You know one of those thingsthat had the wheels and I would
put it at the end of the bed,turn it on and pretend I was
flying.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
Oh sweet.

Speaker 2 (13:27):
That's awesome.
That's when you're like blowingand then they go no, oh yeah,
oh yeah, I had to do that too.

Speaker 1 (13:32):
Use the force.
The force is with you, right.

Speaker 2 (13:35):
But you know something I love about the
helicopter story though Couldyou imagine a kid today getting
put on a helicopter at a statefair?
Yeah, getting put on ahelicopter.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
And and at a state fair yeah, that freaking that
that parent would be dead, thatmom would kill that dad.
Yeah, I mean as far as like,like the, the concern level I'm
like, you know, is this safe?
And blah, blah, blah today, youknow I love that part of your
shit we did back when we werekids.
You know like, oh yeah, all thestuff and and I listen I totally
can relate because I've been ona helicopter many times and I
just like it is amazing.
And the first time, like youknow, my wife's a pilot and the

(14:10):
first time she went on ahelicopter we were together and
we were actually out in Hawaiiand she took off in that thing
and at first she was like, oh,this is terrible, we're going to
.
You know, this is bad safetyrecords.
They crashed, blah, blah, blahand all this stuff.
And she got done with the rideand she's like I think I'm going
to get want to get typed for ahelicopter.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
Did she.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
No, she did not, but she was.
But I mean, that's the feelinglike the euphoria of the whole
situation.
And it's not totally differentthan the fixed week, right?

Speaker 3 (14:38):
No, not, not at all.
I mean, there's differentfacets to it, obviously, but I
took lessons and I soloed in itand I ran out of money, so
lessons kind of went on.
Yeah, it was pretty expensiveat the time.

Speaker 2 (14:49):
That's a lot of pilot stories, right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
They run out of money when they're young.
Oh man, it can be a veryexpensive hobby, especially when
you're getting into it right.
It really is.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
So go on from there.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
So then, how did you become a pilot after like so
then I had a little lawn mowingbusiness and one of the houses
that I got to do the guy was thefather of two daughters at the
time.
They didn't show an interest inaviation, but he flew on the
weekends and he found out that Iwas interested in flying.
So he took me to the airportand I would get to kind of
pre-plan the night before theflights.

(15:20):
He kind of explained it to meand I got the books and I would
get to kind of pre-plan thenight before the flights.
He kind of explained it to meand I got the books and read and
then we go out and he would uh,uh, let me fly with them.
And it was like that kind ofspurred the interest on.
So then I uh took it from there,I saved my money up and I rode
my bike out to the local airportand signed up for ground school

(15:42):
, cause that was all you know itwas even expensive back then.
Now you know, comparativelyspeaking it's not, but back then
it was for a kid making twobucks an hour.
Oh, heck, yeah.
So I went ahead and signed upfor the ground school and I
would spend every day I couldthat I could get out there do
the ground school.
And then I started botheringthe owner of the airport and I

(16:03):
just said, hey, is there anywork you need done?
Could I?
I do the ground school?
And then I started botheringthe owner of the airport and I
just said, hey, is there anywork you need done?

Speaker 2 (16:10):
Could I help out or do this?

Speaker 3 (16:11):
and that Sure Nice guy.
I'm a big believer thateverybody needs a break in life
and he was one of my firstbreaks, you know that's cool.
And so he watched me, but hewas waiting until I was turning
16.
Cause it was like 15, 15 and ahalf, okay, yeah.
So as soon as, as soon as I gotof age where he could do it, he
hired me and I was a lion boywhere you basically did

(16:33):
everything.
You mowed the grass, you're agopher, exactly Right, exactly
Right.
But you learned a lot, right.
Most people were very niceabout passing on knowledge and
things and all aspects of it.

Speaker 1 (16:43):
Especially in the aviation industry.
I will tell you like in my 35years, like I was enamored about
me and being a pilot and allthis stuff, like I grew up in
very similar story not like notidentical, of course, but I was
had the enthusiasm to do it too,but I just didn't do it.
That was that's my story, but.
But at the same time it's likeyou think about all the people

(17:03):
I've crossed and every time I'veever brought a story up to say,
hey, I'm interested in aviation, pilots are always like hey.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
You know, because I think it's a love.
I mean, we all love aviation,we do what we do, and so I think
it's the love of aviation firstthat gets you into it.
I think if you're motivated byother things, it can be a really
long career.
If you have that deep down lovefor it, it makes up for a lot
of the frustrating nights likeyou guys were talking about in

(17:32):
your last podcast.

Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, so when was your actually first flight that?

Speaker 3 (17:40):
you took when I was taking a lesson?
Yeah, it would have been.
Let's see 1975.
75.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
So how old were you?

Speaker 3 (17:48):
15, 15, 15, 15 and three quarters when I started
the lessons.

Speaker 2 (17:54):
Now, what did a lesson cost back then?

Speaker 3 (17:58):
It'll make it, it'll laugh.
I was trying to think of thatthe other night, you know, I
think it was $13 an hour, butyou were working for $2, right,
right, right.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
John, what's today's price?
You know I've checked withpeople and it's like $100.5 an
hour.
But don't quote me on thoseprices.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
You're in the range because you know, right down the
street here I've investigatedmyself because I'm thinking
about bucket list, I got to getmy privates, you know so.
But, buckle, it depends on theplane and the size and all that
stuff, what you want to do it in, um, but I'd say somewhere in
that that 150 range is, you knowthat's right center and you
figure like, uh, what is it?

Speaker 3 (18:38):
35 hours, uh, minimum for a an approved school, right
40 if you're an unapprovedschool.
But everybody runs up into the60-hour range probably on
average to get a license.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Yeah, to get you to that point where the instructor
is ready for you to be checkedoff.

Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah, so I went out.
I started when I was 15.
That would have been about 75,somewhere in there, and I
remember waiting to actuallysolo because you had to be 16 to
solo the airplane, you know,and my parents took me on.
We went on a vacation once in alifetime vacation and the whole
time we're in Hawaii.
I'm like I want to get backbecause I'm turning 16.

(19:17):
I want to solo.
You know, that's awesome.
We did come back and I soloed acouple of days after my 16th
birthday and I guess stillremember the day.
It was right at the localairfield here and it's something
you'll always remember, youknow, yeah.

Speaker 1 (19:32):
And so most 16-year-olds are looking for the
driver's license right.
Yeah true, You're one to get ona plane, yeah right.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
I'm still sitting there thinking damn at 15, his
parents took him to Hawaii.
That's pretty damn good too.

Speaker 3 (19:47):
Full disclosure.
I had an uncle living on theWest Coast and he flew our
family out there.

Speaker 1 (19:51):
I have a sister.
Oh, you had the rich uncle.

Speaker 3 (19:54):
Yeah, well to do that's awesome, so he took us
out there.
But I just laugh now thinkingabout oh here, I want to cut
that short so I can get home.
Right, right, that's awesome,yeah, and so then from there I
just built up, you know, as youknow, probably from your wife's
perspective, Sure, and you'velooked into it too.

(20:16):
So you just go up from there,you get a private license and
then you work on your instrument, your commercial CFI typically
is the next route, so that nowyou have people paying you to go
out and really learn aboutaviation, yeah, and, and then,
you know, flew charter.
And then I got my first, anothernice break from the airport,
because I was, I was workingevery, every day, basically, and

(20:39):
I'd come back from school whenI went off to college.
I would come back on theweekends and still work there
and flight instruct.
And there was a guy that owneda local company and I had heard
that they had purchased anairplane, a big airplane, cool.
And so I said, hey, are youever going to hire any co-pilots
, first officers, for that?

(21:00):
Sure, he was like, oh, is thatsomething you want to do?
And he was just a great guy, anold world war two guy, you know
, and stuff, and uh, and he said, oh, okay, well the next day I
got a call from their chiefpilot and they were just kind of
starting up their flightdepartment and so that was my
break and I got to go there.
I was the young punk kid, youknow, and got to fly with some

(21:20):
amazing, um, older guys, youknow that's great, and it just
went from there.
So I flight instructed, youknow, and as anything, it's
building time Right, you knowyou go from single-engine
airplanes, then you want to flymulti-engine airplanes and so I
was fortunate from thestandpoint, in my instructing I
was a multi-engine instructor soI was able to build some time

(21:42):
there, okay, and then I got thisjob corporately and then I went
full time with them and it wasjust a great adventure.
I didn't get laid off just likethe airline industry.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
But while I think we've all been laid off at some
point in our life, or to me,mine was fired, but I mean
that's a nice word.
You never never got laid off?
No, I don't know Adolph.
You never got named Adolph.
No, hell, no, I feel like I'vehad so many jobs in this, you
know, in my lifetime and stuffI've definitely been asked to
leave.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
Well, sitting here with you long enough, I can
understand.
Oh, yeah, yeah you're right,right, right.
No, but you know something,john.
Hey question for you Back then,being a young first officer was
it different in the cockpit?
I mean, were they prettyregiment?

Speaker 3 (22:29):
I mean you know are you talking when I finally went
with the airlines?

Speaker 2 (22:32):
yeah, corporate, well even corporate, but was it?
Was it pretty regiment?
Because you know when, whenthey looked at pilots back then,
I mean they're they reallyreally looked high with you know
, upon them and and and itseemed like they did things a
little different back then.

Speaker 3 (22:47):
They did and I think it was more.
You know, the captain was thecaptain and you were just
basically what was your termabout when I said a jack of all
trades, Whatever, but you kindof were under his tuttlage, oh
gotcha that could be good or bad.

(23:08):
If he was a good guy, it couldbe a great learning experience.

Speaker 1 (23:11):
You were like a gopher pilot.

Speaker 3 (23:12):
Right, that was the word.
That's the word, and if hewasn't a good guy it could be
not that good.
I've been fortunate in mycareer.
Mostly everybody's been prettygood, oh good.

Speaker 1 (23:24):
So here's my question what was the time span so from
that 15, three-quarter-age kidto the time that you actually
got your first pilot job?
What was that time span?

Speaker 3 (23:37):
Let's see, because I'm still in high school on this
net, so that would have been80-ish.
Let's see, Probably yeah, Sevenyears, Seven years Of beating
around doing the flightinstructing charter you know
stuff to get to an entry-levelposition with a good company
where you'd consider it actuallya good job, Right?

Speaker 2 (23:58):
And Now, did that time fly?
I mean, did it go quick?
You know well, you know how itis when you're a young person.
Right.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
You know, you kind of wish life away a little bit,
unfortunately, but it's.
It seemed to just be slowbecause I knew what my goal was,
you know, which is I wanted towork for the airlines.
But as I look back on it, no,it was a really enjoyable time.
I don't think it wasparticularly right, cause
everything it was an adventureeverything you did you know each

(24:28):
, each milestone was.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
Sometimes I think when, when that happens, so
right it.
It does go by kind of fast,right yeah?
I mean because it just in lifeI I notice, even with our job,
is is in the airlines.
It kind of flies by.

Speaker 1 (24:43):
You know the days kind of fly by what I find
fascinating about the pilot umthe job is that there's no one
path.

Speaker 3 (24:53):
True.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
You know, there's no one like this isn't like if I
want to be a doctor.
This is why these are thethings I have to do and the
steps I have to get to do there.
And yeah, they might have somedifferent experiences in their
training, varying a little, butthey're all learning the same
exact thing and the pilots aredoing the same thing, but the
paths are so different.

Speaker 3 (25:12):
I mean very true, you know, I mean when I, when I
came up the two, the two routeswere military or civilian, right
, civilian required a lot ofjust stick to itiveness where
you go out and kind of putyourself out there.
And I mean there was a time inmy career when I got furloughed
for, laid off from the corporatejob for a little bit.
I was flying for everybody.

(25:32):
You know people would call youup and go hey, you ever flown
this kind of airplane?
And I would just go.
Well, sure, you know, go out.
And the night before you'd lookthrough the manual and there
were a lot of markings andplacardings on the airspeed
indicator and on the panel whereyou could pretty much figure
everything out.

Speaker 2 (25:49):
Sure, you Decatur, and on the panel where you could
pretty much figure everythingout, you know and, uh, John's
version of air America.

Speaker 3 (25:56):
A lot, a lot of truth in that.
So you got that, you got thatkind of route and then you get
the military route.
You know you're giving up years.
You know, seven years, I guess,is the commitment at first, and
you got to go to flighttraining and do that.
Well, I had 2025 vision, so atthe time it's now gone back the
other way, so I'm happy aboutthat, but, uh, so that was not a
route for me, unfortunately.

Speaker 1 (26:18):
Yeah, that wasn't one of my uh like as a kid.
So I was the grow up militarybrat and uh fantasize about
being a pilot and I had liketerrible vision and when I could
only think or envision military.
So as soon as that dream likegot crushed by uh, you can't be
a pilot with that eyes, thoseeyes would like I just like

(26:39):
literally gave it up and it'stoo bad and yeah, and there's so
many people out there that youknow, I think it's important for
people to understand that, likein today's world military and
uh, the commercial and thecivilian way to get become a
pilot you can do it with a lotof different um, uh, not past

(27:00):
like inabilities.
Like, if you have bad vision,you don't have to necessarily be
, um, you know, maverick, you'renot out there being like,
you're not going to be top gunand all this stuff.
Yeah, because you don't havethe perfect body.

Speaker 2 (27:12):
Oh, you're talking about with the military.
Yeah, okay, I got you.

Speaker 1 (27:16):
For any flying really , I mean.
So there's requirements withthe FAA that you have to get a
medical.
You know, it doesn't matter ifyou go military or not.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
But colorblind you still can't be right.
I don't know, you know what I Ihonestly have to look into it
because I never have, but Ithink that they have a waiver
for that right and that's yeahand that's what I'm talking
about.

Speaker 1 (27:35):
Like there's some, some so for for people that are
out there that are inspiring towant to be a pilot, don't let
those things discourage you.
It's really my point,absolutely not like he's right,
exactly what you're saying.

Speaker 3 (27:47):
I'm sorry, no, keep going.
You know, an airline captain tofly a captain on a 121 carrier,
you have to have a first classmedical certificate.
Right, you don't have to haveperfect vision for a first class
medical certificate, exactly.
I think it's like correctable tothat Correct.
So I would never let anythingstop you from if it's something
that you want to do, just go doit.

(28:08):
That's the best part of thiscountry.
You can be whatever you want tobe and uh, uh, granted, there's
probably, you know, higherhurdles for some, some people,
than others, but I had no myparents didn't pay a dime
towards my flying.
I just worked it out and, like Isaid, I was fortunate enough to
have people come along thatgave me the opportunity to earn

(28:30):
what I did.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
So that's awesome.
You know what I mean.
That's a like to put this inperspective for, like the
younger listeners that are, youknow that's networking.
He was networking when we werehustling out there and trying to
get it Do what you actuallyearned it.
I know he was hustling, I knowthat.

Speaker 2 (28:48):
But I'm saying is that he, when you were saying
about the young people, this iswhat I'm saying Sean said he was
hustling.
I'm saying he earned the shit.
He earned it.
He went out and he worked hisass off and he earned it Because
so many kids in the world todaythey don't earn their stuff,
they want it free.
But you stuff and they earnedthat and even if it was $2, it

(29:13):
didn't matter for his $2.
He was earning $2, paying$13.50, but he still earned the
$13.50 for the hour.
I mean and today that's whatthese kids need that you can
still do this, but you're stillgoing to have to go earn it.
You can't just have it given toyou I think, another term for
that is pay your dues.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
Yeah, you got to pay your dues and we all had to do
that, no matter what the careerchoice you make.
Yeah, nothing's going to begiven to you in this world.
I mean, there's very few peoplethat I'd like, even with the
younger generation thing thatyou know, I can become a
millionaire sitting at home,working from home and things

(29:56):
like that.
You know, all these get richquick schemes We've all.
Everyone you know everyone herethat we're sitting right here
talking has been through that.
You know.
Hey, I want to be.
You know, I want to make a lotof money quick, right, I mean
we've all done that, but it'slike you have to.
The bottom line is you have towork for it.
So, john, what are some mythsabout pilots that you, you think
that uh are out there that youmight want to debunk?

Speaker 3 (30:14):
well, I, I guess one of them is particularly in the
airline industry.
Is that, like, like garyalluded to it flying down to
panama?
You know that you get downthere, it's late, you're tired,
all this, everybody has theopinion that like we go places
and it's one big party.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
And I would say that's the furthest thing from
the truth.
I mean, I'm sure there arepeople that are more outgoing
than I am, like on a layovertype basis, but I don't know if
there was like a site you wantedto see, like the Winchester
Mansion is an off the wall thingout in Sacramento.
Yeah, I'd take the time on onetrip to do that.

Speaker 2 (30:56):
But then when you're doing it month after month, you
know one hotel room becomes alot like the other hotel room.
Wow, I think that's a myth withthe whole airline industry,
that we're that, we we have thisbig vacation life and and all
we do is go to our layovers.
We go to these fancy dinners,go go layovers.
We go to these fancy dinners,go go, uh, drink, go, party.
No, that ain't it right.

(31:16):
We're looking for.
We're looking maybe for uh,something to eat.
We're looking for the?
Or is our room clean, right?
right and yeah, and, and headingto bed that's pretty much what
I mean, like we're because ourass is tired most of the time
right, we're trying're trying toget that sleep.

Speaker 1 (31:30):
We're right back to that whole conversation.
We want to get the rest to beable to get because we got
another long day ahead of us.
Because on average I mean in anairline career, you know our
average workday, I feel like, islike a 12-hour workday Easily.
Yeah, I mean they don't reallytell you that because we're
really focused on like flighthour and all that stuff.

(31:52):
But when you look at the realbig picture of like an airline,
it doesn't matter flightattendant, pilot, whatever we
have 12 hour days, 10, 12 hourdays average.
That's the normal day, we know.
Eight hour day is definitelythe exception.
Right, because they push you asmuch as they can push you Right
Until they can't break any morerules, right.

Speaker 3 (32:12):
That's basically how it works.
Undoubtedly, yeah.
And then you sit there and youtell people, well, how much do
you fly?
And you tell them, say, 80hours a month.
You know, I know certain peopledo a lot more than that.

Speaker 2 (32:23):
He's talking about me .

Speaker 1 (32:27):
G's a whole other animal.

Speaker 3 (32:28):
Yeah, but what they don't understand is that's
flight hours.
That's actually from when weget off the gate to, you know,
get back into the gate andthere's all that other stuff we
have to do.

Speaker 2 (32:40):
Let's be honest though it's for a pilot, though
and this is where I'm going togive you the props there's a
shit load more to it than it is.
I mean, no, we have a tough jobback in the back, no kidding.
But man, when you're flyinginto that shit and that weather
is really bad and you earn yourmoney, you earn your money.

(33:00):
I mean, you guys, you earn yourmoney because sometimes the
stress level is pretty high,because you not only got to
watch what you do, you also gotto watch that person over you,
because you are a captain too.
So John.

Speaker 1 (33:12):
That leads me to another question.
Is it like tell me, like, walkme through, like what's a life,
a day in a pilot's life, likehow do you start and end?

Speaker 3 (33:22):
the day, typically like the night before.
You know you're going to go outon a pairing the next day, so
you kind of get an idea of whatthe weather system's affecting,
what your route's going to be.
So you've got an idea when yougo to bed what you're probably
going to face in the morning.
And then you get up.
You know it's just like youguys, all those flight crew
people, we all just get up what?

(33:43):
Probably three hours before ourdeparture time, because we live
fairly close.
Some people commute, which evenadds more to the day, but for
us it was probably three hoursbefore.
And then, right away, firstthing I do is open the iPad and
see well, what does the weatherlook like?

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Yeah, so the iPad, your manual.

Speaker 3 (34:00):
Right.
And then a couple hours beforethe company, we have a dispatch
department, which is the folksthat have all the really
high-tech equipment to look atweather forecasts, everything
they've been talking to flightshift to shift.
So they've got a perspective ofthe other crews that have gone
through the routes.
Well, they formulate a, aflight plan for you, okay, and

(34:22):
then as the crew, we look at it,we'll meet in ops an hour,
typically an hour before theflight, meet up and then go over
it together.
You know, in our case,obviously two, two or two people
on the airplane.
We were on Right.
Some of the internationalflights have three to four crew
members on board, but they'llall meet together.
They'll discuss the flight,look at the weather, they'll

(34:45):
discuss possible problems in theback which you guys might alert
us to.
You know things like that.
And then, once everybody'scomfortable from the standpoint
of, they think that all right,this is our best course of
action.
Today it's good to go theairplane's good, you know, we
sign it off and we're on our way.

Speaker 1 (35:06):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (35:07):
And then it's the variables, as you guys all know,
the variables that you guyshave to deal with right right.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
So so that's super interesting for people that are
listening.
Like it's like, you know,people don't realize that, like
pilots, like every flight andwe've been talking about this
many times on our show and stuffyou know, every flight there's,
you know, all these peoplegoing through this, this uh
stages, these work plans andstuff like that, and each, each
uh person has a plan and, fromthe pilot's perspective, like

(35:33):
you have that brief before you,that hour before and all that
stuff that's super interestingfor people to understand.
That we get, basically you geta snapshot of everything that's
getting ready to happen and yougot to approve that or not
approve it, right.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Right, and and we're fortunate because the latter
part of my career here was in asmall base and usually, like
inbound airplanes, if it's notthe first thing out in the
morning, you'll get an updatefrom them, particularly if we're
all flying the same kind ofroute you know.
And that was very helpful too.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
Yeah, so.
So like we get to talk to eachother in the cruise, like and
and I know as flight attendantswe do the same thing in the back
, Like we're, we're, you know,hey, is this a good plane back
or no, we got a shitty coffeemaker in bag.
And then you know, yeah, this,this doesn't work that great.

Speaker 3 (36:20):
but it's there, and you alluded to the fact.
I mean it's always.
It seems like it just comesdown to the flight crew when it,
you know.
And when I say flight crew, I'msaying you guys, us, everybody,
that's the flight crew Right,right, right and so it's, the
people only see us as the flightcrew.
Of course they see customerservice too, but you know, we're

(36:41):
the, we're the bottom linepeople.
But what it takes to get thatairplane off the gate, the
amount of people that are in thebackground doing things to make
that work, is phenomenal.
Yeah, think about it yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:52):
What I think is is is amazing, though and you just
alluded to all of this is peoplehad no idea that these guys
start this the night before.
You started the night beforeyou, not the day of the night
before then, and what John justtold you is this they haven't
even got on the plane yet.
Right, they're not even been onthe plane, so john tell them

(37:15):
what.
Okay, so you got to the pointnow that, um, you, you did all
this, so you're going to theplane.
Tell me a little bit about what.

Speaker 3 (37:23):
What goes on, then, because that there's a lot there
yeah, so you walk to the gateand typically the first people
you see, uh, are the customerservice reps or the rest of the
crew when we all meet up there.
And so most of the timecustomer service will just
update us on any people that weneed to know special things
about, and then you'll meet thecrew.

(37:46):
We go down and then we allbrief.
You know you guys have certainneeds that I have no idea about
unless you clue me in on it.
Sure, and vice versa, and youknow, it became old hat for us
because, once again, small basewe have.

Speaker 1 (38:02):
We're family, we are, we started working together and
we're like we know each other.

Speaker 3 (38:07):
Everybody knows what to expect from each other.

Speaker 1 (38:10):
Yeah, all of our idiosyncrasies and different
shit.

Speaker 3 (38:14):
And so then we go down.
Typically, maintenance will bethere and they'll kind of update
us on the airplane becausethey've either worked on it at
night if there was any kind ofissue.
It goes through their checksand things.
They'll stop by and say, hi,let us know if there's anything
of issue that we need to knowabout.
If we have a problem, we cancall them.
They come right out, you know,and we all have the goal of

(38:35):
getting those folks out on time,get them down to their
destination safely and there'sjust a lot of stuff going on and
people just and this is to meis the checks that go on in that
cockpit.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
People you have no idea.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
There's an extensive checklist that goes on and then
and you guys know this, butmaybe other people don't but as
a crew up front in the cockpit,we alternate every other leg.
So it just depends on you know,it depends on how the captain
wants to run it.
But I would typically just askthe first officer, hey, what leg
do you want, you know, and he'dstart or I'd start and based

(39:13):
upon that I would go out and dothe walk around on the airplane
to recheck what has already beenchecked by maintenance.
But we would just do a cursorycheck to make sure everything's
as it should be, and the otherguy would be in the cockpit
loading the flight computers andgetting the airplane basically
ready to go.

Speaker 2 (39:31):
Now here's a little shout out, because John has
flown with the same person for along time.
So a little shout out to Chris,you out there.
Yeah, a little shout out to him.
Now John tell me exactly.
It's funny because I know Chrisreally well.
But what is it like to knowthat person is next to you,
right as well as you had knownhim?

Speaker 3 (39:53):
It just makes it work .
It's the same thing I'm sureyou guys deal with.
You know, when my door's closed, sure, in the back, it's just
all the difference in the worldwhen you know what to expect.
I mean, every airline has SOPs,right, sure?
And SOPs make it so that if acrew member comes from a West
Coast base and comes to our baseand he's paired next to me or

(40:14):
paired next to you, we know whatthe basics are.
That should be expected.

Speaker 1 (40:19):
The standard operating procedures of the
airline that we're working with.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
Right, yeah, but to go beyond that when you have
somebody that you're just wellin tune with, it just makes it
work so much better.

Speaker 1 (40:32):
I've always been a firm believer in.
You know, over our career we'vemerged with airlines and all
that stuff and you know we alleach have our own history think

(40:52):
that has been so important thatI hope and wish more airlines
will do this.
Is that that camaraderie andthat experience of working
together is so important to thesafety level of your aircraft?
I mean, and, and sometimes Ifeel like, uh, the bigger the
airlines get, the sometimes Ilike kind of dissipates, but we
always have the SOPs to fallback.
That keeps us all safe, right,right.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
You just don't find this anymore.
I mean what you guys had, Imean as far as flying together
because, trust me, we've knownthese guys for a while, but you
just don't have that anymore.
You don't have that samefeeling when you hit the
airplane, because we have thefaith in you guys and you guys

(41:34):
have the faith in us and itworks right.
It really works, and that's theamazing part, and for you it's
got to be so nice that youalready know that guy next to
you, how good he is.

Speaker 1 (41:49):
You know how good he is, but it's the same in the
back too.
I mean, uh, like g and Iworking together is is the same
as you and uh, chris, right?
Uh, you know, I don't have toverbally say things to him
because he's we've known eachother so long and our body
language and reaction and just alook we know how to react.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
That's a much better way of saying what I was trying
to say I'm mesmerized over here,but that's true.

Speaker 1 (42:20):
That is the dynamic of, you know, having that crew
coordination that I just youknow I so love.
When I'm with those people andI know you like as flight and
plane, your confidence levelgoes up too, oh, absolutely.
Because you feel likesomebody's got my back.

Speaker 3 (42:35):
Right, I mean being pilot in command is a heavy
weight and, like you said, youknow what to expect.

Speaker 2 (42:42):
Right, it's not an unexpected thing.

Speaker 3 (42:44):
I mean, even when you fly like in my case, with
people I haven't flown withbefore, I mean you're always
kind of giving benefit of thedoubt and all that.
Every once in a while, evenguys you've flown with will
catch you off guard because youget pretty comfortable with them
, Sure, so it's.

Speaker 2 (43:00):
But that's the same thing for you, right, as a pilot
, even with your flightattendants, what Sean was saying
.
If there was a problem going onin the back of the aircraft and
you knew that we were back inthe in the back of the aircraft,
did you ever worry about it?
Not at all.
See see, that's a, that's adifference right now.

Speaker 3 (43:14):
And it's, and it's great because, with that
camaraderie of us and I, youknow what to expect.
You know what to expect from me, I know what to expect from you
guys.
Uh, you guys just handle it andit's just like makes life so
easier yeah, because uh yeah youjust said it well right.

Speaker 1 (43:33):
It's just a well-oiled machine.
Anybody that's in any type ofwork in industry, it doesn't
matter where you're at and I.
You have a crew that you'reworking with.
You have to uh you know, it'salways easier to work in that
environment when you haveexperience and a camaraderie and
a connection so I gotta, Igotta go ahead.

Speaker 3 (43:50):
No, I was going to say funny story on.
That aspect of it is good.
Well, you guys know thatoccasionally, like a training
center guy will come out andthey want to do yeah, bump your
coat, your, your, your guyyou're flying with, and then you
get to fly with them and right,and so I'm unaware of it until
it pops up on my screen and I'mlike, wait a minute, where's

(44:12):
Chris?
And uh, and so I I was like, allright, I got to find something
out about this guy.
You know, maybe I don't want tofly with this guy.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
Right.

Speaker 2 (44:19):
And you know the only thing that you missed in your,
in your day, when you said howyour day was Chris did not bring
your coffee and all that stuffthat you say.
Chris brings John's coffee.

Speaker 3 (44:29):
I forgot about that.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
He does.
He brings his coffee to him.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Chris brings coffee to him in the morning, yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:35):
That's how close?
They are Remember.

Speaker 1 (44:37):
Sean used to bring papers Exactly I used to bring a
newspaper every day, untilpapers faded away.

Speaker 2 (44:42):
But that's what you do, though, when you're family
and you think that way, that'swhat you do.
You take care of each other,and that's that is what we do,
you know, in our small base,because, um, you know, we are
family, that's what.
That's how we look at eachother now, but I do have a
question.
Okay, what do passengers do topilots?

Speaker 3 (45:06):
That's just, it's annoying to you, you know it
it's funny because sean gave mea heads up on this stuff and so
I was kind of cursory, runningthem through my, through my mind
, and I was like, ah, let's see,that's a tough one, um oh,
there's got to be some annoyingthings out there I mean, I could
well.
I tell you that right away, andit more is, uh, from your guys's

(45:26):
aspect, I I just like, come on,people, it's simple seatbelt
signs.
It's not for the fact we wantto tell you what to do, it's
because if you get floppedaround back there, not only are
you going to get hurt, butyou're going to get hurt when
you get thrown on somebody, andthat person will get hurt even
though they're obeying the rules.
So it's simple things like thatthat I would get annoyed by.

Speaker 2 (45:50):
All right, you know what mine is.
I'm going to straight tell youUh, I thought I've seen the
pilot in the bar.
That's the stupidest damn thingyou could ever see.
You want to see a pilot?
Listen, folks, when you pop inand you say something dumb like
that.
Let me tell you what happenedone time.
I'm just going to tell you onthis, john John, because you
know that that is a dumb comment.
I seen a captain get his bagand he walked his ass right off

(46:11):
that airplane and he said hejust accused me of being in the
bar and I'm going to get alcoholtested.
I said congratulations, flightjust canceled.

Speaker 3 (46:19):
You don't have a pilot.
You know that's good, had youguys given me that notion, but
that's so true because we getthat a lot and typically if
there's an incident in theindustry then they all want to
be jokesters and say something.

Speaker 1 (46:33):
Dumb comments, yeah, words has consequences and and
it's uh, people don't.
People don't get that likecertain things that you say
trigger certain things inindustry.
My favorite annoying thing forpeople to say is like oh, my
seat's broken as we're taxiingout.
Well, I could spin this wholeaircraft around and we can go
back and get your seat correctedor quit lying to me and bring

(46:57):
up your seat and when you bringup the lying aspect.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
I guess that brings me down to the one when you gave
me that thought.
What your question was going tobe is that when we have a
mechanical problem, people thinkwe're lying to them and we're
not.
I mean, there may be criticalthings we don't tell, but for
the most part we're beingupfront about it.
It's not that we wanted todelay the flight or do this on

(47:22):
purpose, for whatever unknownreason.
People conjure up, but itamazes me people get mad at us
over a mechanical delay becausemy thought is you want us to go
with something that you'reflying on, something that's
about a quarter inch thick right, that's pressurized at 40,000
feet.

Speaker 2 (47:42):
Are you freaking, kidding me?
I know that's a stupid comments.

Speaker 1 (47:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:46):
Stupid comments.
I mean, I don't care how long Ido this job.
The one thing I hate is thosedumb, stupid comments.

Speaker 1 (47:54):
Right, they make no sense.
You take them with a grain ofsalt because we have the
experience of, like you know, wecan work this out through our
experience of dealing with thisover and over and over and
realize when people are justbeing idiots.

Speaker 2 (48:10):
Well, some of them are funny, sean, but some of
them are just straight stupid.
You know that I mean, it is andI get it.
But, man, some of them, theyjust need to not say it.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
Just come on board, sit down, sure, and props to you
guys, because I could never doyour job.
I have to be honest.
I mean, I like the fact thatyou insulate me from stuff.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
We close the door and it's lined up, yeah, exactly
Between me and Sean there's alot of insulation anyway.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
No, but you guys have seen it too.
I mean, there are people in theranks none that I can cite
example of.
Recently, particularly not outof here, but in my earlier days,
there were people that couldantagonize passengers too.

Speaker 1 (48:50):
They had hot buttons, yeah, and it's like come on,
people yeah well, I mean, that'skind of like it was back to us,
like how we we know each otherand work.
You know, we know the peoplethat we work with.
Certain you know, I've had thecaptains that are.
You know they're the hot heads.
You know all you have to do issay blink to them and they're
just explode, you know, or, andthen we had to fly to do the

(49:11):
same thing.
You know, like it's, it's thatknowing and all that.
That's that experience level ofus being, especially when
you're in a small community likewe are, uh, that is so awesome
to work in Cause.

Speaker 3 (49:22):
Let's face it, people , it's very un-American,
un-freedom-ish to put peopleinto a tube and then they have
to follow a bunch of rules.
You know, but it's not.
We wrote the rules, we justhave to abide by them too.

Speaker 2 (49:43):
You know, the funny thing about it, too, is that we,
we inform and we don't enforce.
That's what really people don'teven understand we don't.
We don't enforce the rules, we,we inform them right.
Because I mean if, if you'regoing to push it to that, that
extent, you're going to gettaken off an aircraft, Right?

Speaker 1 (49:56):
I mean the enforcing coming to people, people that
are listening to the thinking no, enforcing is a removal from
the aircraft, right, but I meanin actuality, like we inform you
many a times it's we treateverybody like a two year old,
like we're going to tell youwe're going to tell you 10 times
before you're going to bepulled off that aircraft Unless
you do something absolutely outof control.
You know you're going to beviolent or something like that.

(50:16):
That's understandable, but mostof the time I mean it's just
you know you keep pushing untilyou get to our breaking point.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
There's a good reason .
If you're taking off a plane,man, there's a good reason.
You know that, right, I meanthere's a good reason.

Speaker 3 (50:37):
But big question that we always have from passengers
and I love this one Turbulence.
How do you feel about it?
You know, I guess you becomeI'm assuming just like you guys.
You come basically immune toand used to it.
Obviously, if it gets reallybad, I think it's very
worthwhile to for the you know,the cockpit to make an
announcement to the back end.
I'm sorry, I should have saidflight deck, but it's my.

Speaker 1 (50:55):
No, no, no, you can say cockpit on the show.
You can say assholes up frontor whatever.

Speaker 3 (51:01):
That works too.

Speaker 1 (51:03):
The office in the sky , whatever you want to call it.

Speaker 3 (51:05):
Yeah, I think it's important because we all believe
it or not.
There's probably people thatare on a flight for a first time
.
They've never been to theairport, never done anything,
and so it's quite the sensationfor them.
Right, I've been up to, I'veonly had severe turbulence a
couple of times and it's prettyconcerning, but you're so busy
at that point in the cockpitthat you know it just kind of

(51:26):
goes by.
Sure, you know.
Not to sound cowboy is sure,whatever it.
Just I don't know, it's justone of those things you live
with.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
Right, right, right.
You know.
So, john, quickly, what exactlyis turbulence, though?
I mean, for people that arelistening, they, they really
don't.
We hear we say turbulence, butwhat's turbulence explain?

Speaker 3 (51:45):
Well, most of his jet stream caused.
You know, when you get up,particularly during the winter,
you have winds coming that canreach 120, at times, 120 knots
Right.
And so, if you think about it,I always you know, we, we tend
to look at these numbers andjust rationalize them.
Sure, but then I always thoughtto myself man, can you imagine

(52:07):
standing outside our home rightnow with 120?

Speaker 1 (52:09):
I don't want to win.
That's called a tornado Rightman.
Can you imagine standingoutside our home right now with
120 wind going by?

Speaker 3 (52:14):
That's called a tornado Right and so you get
sheer levels as you go up anddown, and that's usually what
causes the worst part.
And then when you're down low,it's convective heating of the
ground of you know, like aparking lot's going to have more
rising heat than like a groundyou know a forest or a lake or

(52:35):
things like that.
So as you get close to theground, a lot of it's that.
And then, of course, you havethe clouds you know that are
billowing up and things thatyou're going to hit.

Speaker 2 (52:42):
So you're actually I mean you take a lot of that into
consideration in airportsyou're flying to, though, right?
Yes, I mean as far as with theturbulence that's known for
those airports, particularly.

Speaker 3 (52:52):
You know like Denver comes to mind.
You know you can.
Just I have a sister thatdoesn't like to fly.

Speaker 2 (53:01):
She will avoid Denver because it's always bumpy
coming in and out.

Speaker 3 (53:03):
You got the winds coming off the mountains and
mountain rave and you know a lotof heat, convective heating.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
So it can be, you know, disconcerting for somebody
.
That's not so for for those,for those worried passengers,
should they be worried?

Speaker 3 (53:15):
No, no yeah.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
So so what have you ever like in your, in your
career?
Did you ever have a like, a Imean that's this is the normal
question everybody's going toask you Like did you ever have a
scary situation where youactually was like it puts?

Speaker 3 (53:29):
you on a little edge.
Somebody else asked me thatrecently, cause you always, like
you said, you get that a lot.
Right, we get that, and so I.
I.
I've reflected on it a minute,I've come with age, I don't snap
an answer Right.
And I would say and this is notto sound to minimize it, but
every situation I ever dealtwith with the airline I felt

(53:51):
properly trained to handle and Ialways had somebody there, the
input that you know, we handledit and it was just kind of all
right, we're in the sim andwe're doing it and let's just
handle it.
Yeah and uh.
For the most part, I think, uh,pilots are pilots first you know
, Sure, and so we all have theinner feeling of just flying the

(54:15):
airplane Right.
And so, no, I, you know, therewas really I mean, I've had,
I've had in my corporate careerI had an engine failure.
That was probably the mostexciting, coming out of Detroit,
you know.
And then, as a flight engineer,we shut an engine down, went
into DC one day and the rest ofit's all been just like
hydraulics or control problemsand things like that.

Speaker 1 (54:37):
But nothing that, nothing major that you had to
like.
You know, we had to do anevacuation on a plane or
anything, no, right?

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Okay, john, explain to the people, because you
brought something up and they,they, they really don't
understand this.
I know the SIM right.
So when you guys go to training, you go into these SIM training
, right, and you spend how manyhours in there.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
So we do it every nine months and it's usually
with our company.
It's a three-day event on oneof them, a two-day event on the
other, and you basically runthrough the worst case scenarios
.
They have things that they calltheir first look, which is they
kind of are collecting data tothrow a problem at a flight crew

(55:21):
and see just off the cuff howthey handle it, without any
practice or trying and stuff.
So they collect that data andthen the rest of the time is
really spent with either whatthe flavor of the moment is.
You know, if there's anincident in the industry and
they try to learn fromeverything, they'll run us
through exercises based on thatincident and then we just have

(55:44):
the standard stuff where enginefailures and control problems
and all that.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
Now that sim training let people know, is that
stressful?

Speaker 3 (55:54):
It's probably in my case.
I know different people handleit a different way.
That was probably my leastfavorite part of the job was
going out there and I never hada problem.

Speaker 2 (56:03):
I never had a problem .
I think that's the majority.
I'm not saying that I never hada problem.

Speaker 3 (56:08):
I'm saying that more of it as an example, saying that
I never had a problem, I'msaying that more of it as an
example.
I would get worked up over itto the point that, you know, I
just in my latter years saidthis is ridiculous.
Go, do your, do your best andlet them critique you and learn
from it.
Move on.

Speaker 1 (56:24):
It takes time to get there, though I mean, and this
is the same thing for flightattendants as well.
I mean, uh, for those that arelistening, you know, you know, a
flight attendant is typicallyonce a year.
We go to this sim training aswell, where we do the whole
evacuations, all this stuff.
But so for pilots it'sdifferent for the position

(56:45):
you're in, right.
So for first officers in theairline that we worked for,
there, are they every how many?
How many months do they have togo?
No, they, for first officers inin the airline that we worked
for, um, there are they everyhow many?
How many months do they have to?

Speaker 3 (56:53):
go.
No, they're the same.
They're the same.
Okay, we do the exact same.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Gotcha.

Speaker 3 (56:57):
And it's actually treated as a crew event.
So we work together as a crew,so it's always the same training
for whether you're FO, captain,right, and so, like Chris,
shout out to Chris.
If I ever was lucky enough togo out with Chris, I would know
exactly what to expect fromChris and stuff, and but, to his
detriment, if I had a bad day,it reflects on the two of us.

(57:20):
You know, right, right.

Speaker 2 (57:22):
So you know, the thing is I just want to tell
people this is that you guysreally don't understand this.
Sim training actually, forthese guys is very stressful.
They they have to go every ninemonths, like john said, but
they're evaluated and andthey're sitting there watching
some of the most serioussituations that that could
happen on an airplane and andyou know, and they're constantly

(57:43):
being watched and and this isdone every nine months yeah, and
that's.
I mean that they don't reallydon't understand how stressful
that is.
We do, because we know you guysand we know you know when it's
that time you get the amount oftime you have to study, right,
right, you put a lot of time.
How many, how many hours wouldyou say that you put in studying
before your sim?

Speaker 3 (58:02):
Well, typically for me and you know, once again,
I'll just speak for me about amonth before the event a month.
I'll just speak for me about amonth before the event a month.

Speaker 2 (58:11):
I'll start.
I'll start gearing up.
Think about that.

Speaker 3 (58:12):
I'll start looking back through the manual and a
lot of people might go well,don't you know it already?
Well, I don't know.
Have you seen those books?

Speaker 2 (58:19):
Yeah, it's crazy.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
There's a lot.
There's a lot of nuanced stuffthat you go.
Oh man, you know, and you justare trying to do it, right I
mean most most guys want to dosure, you know, uh, and so yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:39):
And then the week before.

Speaker 3 (58:39):
I would always call my PMS week just.

Speaker 1 (58:40):
My wife would just like look at me like yeah, I was
just about to tell you, likemost, most men in the world,
they're looking at their wivesand they have the.
You know we have that monthlyuh cycle, whatever, right, but
but, um, my wife's a pilot and,uh, when she goes to this
training thing, it's the, theone and a half month cycle every
nine months.
I have to go through this likemajor build-up to stress that

(59:00):
she's like almost in tears whereshe's not thinking that she's
gonna lose her jobs.
But here's my point to thething that's really important
that the reason why you guys aregetting so nervous is because
you care and you really want todo well, I mean, that's the,
that's why that level of anxietyis up there, is because the,
the care level is so up high.

Speaker 3 (59:20):
Yes, agreed and it's you're doing it amongst your
peers.
You know not only the guyyou're working with, but the guy
that's evaluating you.
Yeah, nobody likes check ridesand nobody likes a newness
feeling in anything.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
But this isn't like 20 minutes though, john, right,
I mean, this is like two hoursims.

Speaker 3 (59:40):
Oh, it's four hours.
Four hours, okay, could you?

Speaker 2 (59:43):
imagine sitting in a simulator for four hours,
throwing everything at you thatit could possibly throw at you
and being evaluated on it.
That's crazy.
I mean that's absolutely crazy.

Speaker 1 (59:53):
And each time they do current event things too.
So if things happen in theindustry they put those
situations into those Sims.

Speaker 3 (01:00:02):
So, for instance, the max issue, right when the max
issues came out, boy, thatcompletely got into our training
.

Speaker 1 (01:00:09):
Sure, Obviously Sure, and uh so um, we're going to
kind of move this long herebecause, uh, we are running out
of time.
Before we wrap this whole thingup, I want to do this like
rapid fire questions and all yougot to do is just answer it,
okay, so, I didn't give youthese notes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:25):
Yeah, I understand that.
I understand that, and when Ikick Gary, I'm going to expect
him to take you out at the endof the.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:34):
So here it is, I'm just going to throw them out to
you.
Turbulence or delays.

Speaker 3 (01:00:40):
Annoying.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Annoying.
Which one would you prefer?
Turbulence or delays,turbulence, turbulence, early
morning flights or red eyes,early morning Window.
Seat or aisle?
As a passenger, kyle.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
That's me too.
I love that one Right.

Speaker 1 (01:00:59):
Night flying or daytime flying.

Speaker 3 (01:01:02):
Do you mean the whole flight?

Speaker 1 (01:01:04):
Either way night or day, flying in the night or
night, and flying in the night,I mean, we have flights that do
both.
Right yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:01:09):
I guess I'm indifferent, as long as you take
the all-night segment thing out.
Oh, the overnight, the red-eyetype of thing, right Gotcha?
Worst pasture a crying baby ora guy clapping his hands when he
land.

Speaker 1 (01:01:29):
Sorry, grandkids crying baby crying baby, you got
it.
Uh, what?
What's more dangerous?
Uh, turbulence.
Or someone reclining theirseats into your knees and into
the knee, climbing their seatsinto your knees and into the
knee, into the knees?
Kill him.
What about this?
This is your captain speaking,or?
Hey y'all, it's me again, whichwhich is your vibe.
I never worked for Piedmont soand more, most, most stressful

(01:01:58):
or more stressful emergency, uh,emergency landing or airport
security line.
Airport security line Right.

Speaker 3 (01:02:04):
Unlike, unlike.
Unlike G, who probablyeverybody would want to see him
in his boxers.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Uh, it's just the opposite.
Over here, I'm with you too.
Nobody wants to see you, uh anduh.
Have you ever pretended to lookbusy?
So, uh, you didn't have thepastor talk to you that's a good
question.

Speaker 3 (01:02:27):
Uh, no, no, because typically it's uh when you're
the busiest that people want tocome up and talk, you know the
times where you got a lull.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
We're in like a crunch situation.

Speaker 3 (01:02:36):
We're trying to get to playing out or whatever, and
they want to come up and hey no,but you know, you know in my
case too, once again, that'sworking amongst us, sure, our
guys, because you know, in mycase, the guys I was working
with, I could always get awayfrom what I was doing and I knew
they'd cover me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:51):
So you know, here it was just a little different.
Okay, um and uh, Um and uh that, and one and one, one last one
most powerful pilot move Okay,Aviator sunglasses, or walking
slow to the gate.

Speaker 3 (01:03:11):
Well, I never uh.
Being an ex commuter, I neveruh walk walk slow.
So, I would have no, uh have noopinion on that one.
You could have thrown in BigWatch.
It wasn't a Big Watch.

Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
John, it was awesome having you on board on this
podcast with us.
We really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
I really enjoyed it.
You guys do a great job, and Iwanted to give you a shout out
too, Sean.
The other week we got theprivilege of attending an event
with you.
Right, I just I never knew youdid the volunteer work you were
doing.
Not that I didn't think youwere that type of guy, but it
was like I had never heard ofthat organization.
Dba, DBA, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:03:53):
Friends of DBA.

Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
And boy, what a worthwhile cause.
Good for you, man.
Yeah, I mean, I don't knowwhere you get the time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:01):
I'm retired and I can't even come up with time.
I don't know where sometimes Iget the time either, because I
always have to.
I got friends that push me intodoing crazy stuff like this
podcast.
I got people that are asking meto help them out in the
foundations and stuff, but Istill manage to do my own thing
as well, and I'm always hustlingdoing something.

Speaker 3 (01:04:18):
Well, you guys are awesome.
For anybody that listens tothis, these two guys are just
two of the greatest guys they'veever got the privilege to work
with, so I really appreciatethat.

Speaker 2 (01:04:28):
Well, you know how I feel about you, man.
So I mean, like I said, thisguy sitting next to me is one of
the best pilots I've ever flownwith.
Chris is still out there, isstill out there.
I'm still flying with your asshere soon and you're going to be
coming in here next, chrissy,so you're up next, buddy.

Speaker 1 (01:04:44):
Hey, just before we leave, we're going to touch on a
couple of current event thingsthat happened and John, please
ring into this.
But just the other day therewas an airline that had to
divert because they were goingfrom LA to Shanghai and one of
the pilots forgot their passport.
Uh, all I got to say is likeyou, stupid ass would you divert

(01:05:08):
?

Speaker 3 (01:05:08):
well, uh, you know, I it's one of those things we'd
probably obviously they got incontact with the company and
it's kind of at that point if Ihad a choice, because the cost
of that conversion, thatdiversity is incredible.

Speaker 2 (01:05:23):
And I would just look for a bench in custom somewhere
.
Yeah Right, just sit there.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
Now wait till tomorrow.
I mean worst case.
The guy just stays on the planeand is sent home, right?

Speaker 1 (01:05:32):
Right, I mean, that's what I would think that would
happen.
I've never even heard of this.
You're like self-deported.
But I will tell you.
Um, that happened to me, thishappened to me.
They didn't turn the planearound but I, I did a cancun
turn and out of here, out ofcleveland, and uh, I flew all
the way there and flew back andyou know, I never got up to
plane because we're just doing aturn right.
And I got coming back throughcustoms, like right before we

(01:05:53):
land I was like, do you have mypassport?
with me and literally had no, Ididn't't have with me.
It was like, I mean, it was anoh shit moment that you were
just like your heart jumps outof your chest and you're like
what's going to happen to me?
And all you can feel here, youknow, in your head it's like I'm
going to be locked up in chains.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
Rubber gloves coming for him, John.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
Yeah, and he's trying to figure out.
In my case you go.
Well, who would bail me?

Speaker 2 (01:06:18):
out, figure out.
In my case you go.
Well, who would bail me out?
It's like some big dude, somebig guy with rubber gloves is
coming after sean.

Speaker 1 (01:06:23):
But you know what?
This?
This is right back to thatwhole thing about family and
little base and everything,because I knew the agent that
met the plane.
Um, my wife was close.
Uh, she brought my passport.
It was, it was, it was sonon-big event, you know.
But yeah, anyways.
But uh, other things is in thenews too.
Was uh, um, uh, trump man istalking about banning 43

(01:06:44):
countries from travel.
I don't know if you guys sawthat did you guys see it no yeah
, like he's, he's had this newlist.
Now some of them were likeno-brainers, like you know, like
iran, you know there's a toughban showing right but they're
doing this whole thing with this.
Uh, there you know, there's he'stalking about 41 countries that

(01:07:05):
are going to be the flight band.
So I mean impact on airlinesand stuff and all the different
places that, like I'm our, ourcompany does go to some of these
places, and it's going to bewild.
I just thought it was like veryinteresting, uh, something to
bring out.
Yeah, I didn't see that one.
Yeah, and then a couple ofthings.
Did you see the couple that wasarrested in Cancun?

Speaker 2 (01:07:25):
Nope, no, you didn't see that.

Speaker 1 (01:07:27):
So so they had a dispute.
So this is a learning lessonfor everybody If you charge
something on your credit cardand you think there's some type
of you know wrong, you you thinkthere's some type of you know
wrong, you can dispute it, right?
Well, this couple had chargedtheir timeshare onto a credit
card and they disputed itthrough American Express, and
American Express sided with themand they gave them their money

(01:07:48):
back.
So they were traveling back andforth to Cancun.
They had done it a couple times.
Well, this last time they went,authorities met them when they
landed, put them in prison, andso now the timeshare company has
gotten with the localauthorities and said that they
owe them $250,000, when it wasonly like $141,000.

(01:08:08):
And so these two Americans arelocked up down there.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (01:08:14):
Not the place to be in right.
Right, you do not want to be ina freaking foreign prison.
We've talked about that many,many times.

Speaker 2 (01:08:21):
Okay, one that just came off the wire I just seen,
and this one was off the chainman.
So they had a new, a new hireflight attendant.
All right, two hour delay.
You know the delay was for no,supposedly this new hire was
traveling.
You know how we non-rev travel?
And uh, he was on a plane anduh, he was, uh, he was playing

(01:08:44):
with himself.
Sean the flight attendant.
Well, he wasn't working it, buthe was no, he was working in it
.
That sounded like he wasworking, he was working
something.
That was it, that was something.
But could you I'm seriouslyreading this.
I was like are you kidding me?
So you're one month in onemonth.

Speaker 1 (01:09:01):
Dude.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
What the hell were you thinking?
Yeah, I mean to do that anyway,but the two-hour delay posted
because he was doing that on theairplane.

Speaker 1 (01:09:13):
He was playing with himself on the airplane, on the
airplane, and so some pastor sawhim, or something like that.

Speaker 2 (01:09:18):
I don't know.
Yeah, I didn't want to get thatdeep into it, sean.

Speaker 1 (01:09:21):
I literally you know this goes to.
I you know tick tock and allthat stuff.
I just saw this picture wherethey had this, the post of this
flight attendant standing in thegalley with the other flight
attendant and this flightattendant had this gal had
reached back and put her handsdown her pants that was nasty.

Speaker 2 (01:09:35):
I was like straight out nasty.

Speaker 1 (01:09:37):
Yeah, that was nasty, that is nasty'm like, and
somebody was able to take apicture of her picking her ass.

Speaker 2 (01:09:43):
In first class, could you imagine?
No, I'm not taking nothing todrink, nothing to eat.
Nope, I'm good.
I just take something that islike a thing of pretzels.
That's closed.

Speaker 1 (01:09:55):
Yeah, that's some crazy shit right there.

Speaker 2 (01:09:57):
There was so much that went on this week, though
we don't have enough time tocover it though, folks.
Seriously, man, there was allkinds of crazy stuff that
happened this week, but we'llhave to wait until next week.

Speaker 1 (01:10:08):
Next week.
Anyway, let's wrap this up herewith our famous quote.
Here, and the quote is, theonly validation you need is your
own belief in yourself.
Stop waiting for the right time.
It's now.
Your dreams are worth pursuing.

Speaker 2 (01:10:26):
I like that one, especially because we were
talking about from John and hiscareer with flying.

Speaker 1 (01:10:31):
I thought this was apropos for the interview.
Yeah, it was.

Speaker 2 (01:10:36):
Hey Sean.
Hey, you did forget one thing,man.
We forgot it last week andwe've got to cover it this week.
What was that?
We had a big download.

Speaker 1 (01:10:46):
Oh we had our first download.
53rd country, 53rd countries.
Yeah, we are 53 country people.
Do you realize that?

Speaker 2 (01:10:56):
Yeah, you know which one it was.
Who Uzbekistan, whereUzbekistan when?
Uzbekistan, shout out toUzbekistan.
Where is Uzbekistan, Sean?

Speaker 1 (01:11:07):
Hey, whoever's out there, drop us a line, let us
reach out, say hi If you'repaying attention in Uzbekistan.

Speaker 2 (01:11:15):
I would really like you to reach out.
Be that one person thatdownloaded us.
Reach out.

Speaker 1 (01:11:20):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (01:11:21):
Hey guys, listen Again.
John, it was great having you,man, I hope you come back.
Thanks, I mean we'll just sitaround and bullshit sometime.

Speaker 3 (01:11:28):
I'd love to come back with Chris.

Speaker 2 (01:11:29):
Yeah, oh, we're going to so do that.

Speaker 1 (01:11:32):
We will have to plan that out for sure.
Thanks everybody for listeningto cabin pressure with sean and
g.
We would like to ask any flightattendant that has crazy crew
stories to contact us with yourstory so we can talk about it on

(01:11:57):
Cabin Pressure and if you'dlike to be a guest on Cabin
Pressure email us at cpwithsg atgmailcom.