When Experience Matters: The 65-Year Cutoff and the Future of Aviation

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Step into the cockpit with John, a veteran pilot with 51 years of flying experience and 39 years in commercial aviation. His journey through the skies spans 53 different aircraft types and countless adventures that illuminate both the joys and challenges of a life spent above the clouds.

The conversation tackles a controversial topic in aviation: the mandatory retirement age of 65 for commercial airline pilots. John argues this represents outdated age discrimination, particularly as pilots undergo rigorous medical exams every six months and proficiency checks regularly. Why should capable, experienced pilots be forced to ground themselves when they can still pass every test thrown their way? The timing seems especially problematic given the industry's current struggle with pilot shortages.

Wildlife encounters feature prominently as John shares hair-raising stories about birds, rabbits, and other creatures meeting unfortunate ends in aircraft engines. One particularly memorable incident involved geese being "cooked" in an engine after a strike, filling the cabin with smoke and necessitating an emergency return. Despite these challenges, John maintains that "the best flight is boring and uneventful."

The episode offers rare glimpses into pilot culture, from judging colleagues' aircraft walk-arounds to dealing with problematic flight attendants. In one hilarious exchange, a co-pilot responded to repeated cabin calls about a passenger vomiting by asking with perfect deadpan delivery: "What color is the vomit?" claiming it was now required information. The camaraderie and humor that sustain aviation professionals through challenging situations shines throughout these stories.

What emerges is a passionate case for valuing experience in the cockpit. As one host observes about flying with veteran pilots during turbulence: "Never did I think twice about it when you and Chris are up in the cockpit." In an industry where split-second decisions matter, perhaps we should reconsider rules that prioritize age over demonstrated ability.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
pilots have an age limit and they have a mandatory
retirement.
A rabbit gets sucked into anengine, the flight attendant.
No one wants to fly with allthis.
Next, on cabin pressure.
What is up?
That was loud.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
I was expecting this big opening.
I know you were this bigfreaking opening Every week,
this big ass opening, and then,all of a sudden, what is up?

Speaker 1 (00:57):
Bra, that's what my nephew always says.
Bra, you're killing me, man.

Speaker 2 (01:04):
Like I said, I was expecting this big-ass opening
and then nothing.
No, man Just fell off the shelfon that one.

Speaker 1 (01:10):
What's been going on?
Oh, you know, first of all, theweather's breaking Golf's in
the air right now, soeverybody's like ready to get
out there.
So the wife and I just went outand did some golfing today.
Actually I suck and she's great, as usual.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
I was waiting for that one.
I already knew that.

Speaker 1 (01:28):
I'm going to say it myself first, before you say it.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
Oh, I'm still going to say it Because he's not
exactly happy, gilmore, overthere.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
No, I can play, but today was not a first-round
rough start and it was wet outthere, man, it was like sloppy
wet.
My whole my, my pans have mudon them and everything so here
comes the excuses right now,okay, no, no I know it was
sloppy wet.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
The course was this.
That was it.
You know, okay, how did carolshoot?

Speaker 1 (01:57):
carol was good, she's always good yeah same course
same course.
Okay, right, that's kind ofironic, but she hit it less than
me.
Yeah, well, which is the point?
Especially in that game right,exactly, but anyways, the other
thing that's going on, on alittle bit of a serious note, is

(02:18):
that this week my freakingdoctor, you know I have to like
every three months I'm on thisheart medication.
I got like these heart problemsand stuff and my doctor's like
I have to get a EKG and a bloodtest and all this stuff because
of this medication and he pulledme off of it and he's like,
sorry, it's not working anymore.
So now I'm back into havingPVCs If you know what PVCs are,

(02:39):
which is basically extraheartbeats, and one of the how
basically extra heartbeats andhow they fix that is that one,
they can do it with medication.
And two, the second part is youcan do a heart surgery, which
is an ablation, and I've alreadyhad one and now they're like
you're going to have another one.
So the big suck happening rightnow.
So when is that going to happen?

(03:01):
That's to be determined, butyeah, I'm not looking forward to
this whole situation.

Speaker 2 (03:06):
So until then no medication.

Speaker 1 (03:08):
No medication for the heart or anything, because it's
not working.
So it's like you know, thatmedication I was doing like
every 12 hours.
I had to do it.
It was a pain in the ass but itwas helping, but then evidently
it just stopped working.
So, like I went to the doctortoday for my knee this morning
and you know they try to take aheart, um, blood pressure for
you.
Yeah, and this, this conditionI have right now, those machines

(03:31):
won't work so they can't takemy blood pressure.
That crazy, that is crazy.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, but uh, sothat's a happy note.
What's in right now?

Speaker 2 (03:40):
but what do you notice in that?

Speaker 1 (03:42):
though, when?

Speaker 2 (03:42):
you're talking about the, do you notice?

Speaker 1 (03:44):
anything.
No, the crazy thing is that Irarely have any symptoms like
with it, like comes along withit, like I I'm sitting here and
I'm having it right now, andlike I have a monitor over here
on my desk, that uh, that um, Ican like do ekg myself.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
That uh, cardiomobile have you ever heard of?

Speaker 1 (03:59):
that.
No, it's that thing that they,you know, they have them in your
billfold types and then theyhave ones that are higher tech,
that does six-point leads andstuff like that.
But it can do EKG just sittingthere and I could show you I
have PVCs going on right now butI can't feel anything.
So it's not like this is in ahard condition where you're like
, oh, I'm grabbing my chest andyou know, ethyl, here I come,

(04:22):
I'm coming, ethyl.
No, you know, ethel, I'm coming, no, no, no, it's nothing like
that, it's just like, literally,I'm just having these extra
heartbeats, but, um, it's toexplain it a little further is
like it doesn't pump the heartenough, so my normal beats are
happening, and then the PVC islike a squeeze.
So instead of a full Harbor,it's just like a squeeze.

(04:42):
So what happens is you're havingnot enough blood flow and
oxygen going through your bodyand stuff like that.
So symptoms can happen fromthat.
But with me I'm not really.
I get winded, I get tiredsometimes, but I'm always damn
tired.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Well, you know, on a lighter note you may you just
realize this I will shock yourass if you need it, I will.
I mean I, you know, I, brother,I will put them damn things on
you and shock, even if it saysno shock is needed.
My ass is going to shock you,right?
I shocked them.
Thank you for doing book forvolunteer you know.
Hey, that's what the brother isfor.

(05:14):
Man I'm going to, I'm going tojump right in there.
It says no shock is needed.
I'm hitting that damn thing.
That stock's needed on his ass.
He needs it.
Boof.
No, but you got to get thatshit taken care of.

Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, you know it's something I'm not looking
forward to.
The first one was not a funoperation.
It was six and a half hours onmy back awake, Having heart
surgery when you're awake.

Speaker 2 (05:37):
I remember when you told me about that You're all
hooked up to all these machinesand probes all over the front of
you, the back of you.

Speaker 1 (05:45):
It takes them over an hour just to hook you up with
all the leads will they let mecome in and take a picture?
I wish that'd be so cool.
In fact, if the next time I doit I'm gonna have them take a
picture, cool for sure.
I'm like listen, I need apicture.
I'm a photographer, I want apicture of me probed up yeah, I
want to come in and take thatpicture anyways, but uh, yeah,

(06:07):
so I got all that's going on andyou know, just normal life, uh
getting through, doing, uh,doing, uh, the stuff that we get
do every day, yeah, what aboutyou, man?

Speaker 2 (06:17):
same thing.
Uh, out flying was doing a lotof the florida stuff.
Uh, get caught up in that that.
This time of year, all the time, florida panhandle it's just
all the time we get.
We get boarded up, get ready topush back, get ready to go.
What?
Florida panhandle?
Man, weather up there atJacksonville center shuts that
shit down in a heartbeat, I know.

Speaker 1 (06:38):
I'm not looking forward to come.
I'm getting ready to come backto flying here May one and I'm
not looking forward to it.

Speaker 2 (06:44):
All you hear is, when you call up and talk to the
cockpit, is we're trying to finda reroute because Jacksonville
Center blocked this.
So we have to go all the wayaround the Gulf or we have to go
up the other side of the oceanto come around the East Coast
all the way back into Ohio.
Pain in the ass.

Speaker 1 (07:06):
And we have the problem also of the different
cockpits that we got going onthere.
Some of them are experience andplan and understand what's
going on and throw that extragas on, no matter what the
company says, and they can notdo the diversions that we have
to do.
But every now and then we getthose and even in, even if you

(07:26):
plan, you still are going tohave to divert Sometimes.
Carol, my wife had to do thatthe other day even though they
planned they had to divert.
Yeah, and you were with them,weren't you?

Speaker 2 (07:33):
I was yeah, yeah, I'm always.
I actually with Carol more on aplane than your ass will ever
be good.
This is a very good thing.
Yeah, I know probably for hertoo, but uh, yeah anyway, I was
in st louis the other day, right, 81 degree we pulled in there I

(07:55):
it was probably about fouro'clock in the afternoon, like
81 degrees 81 degrees man, andtomorrow here in in northeast
ohio it's supposed to be like inthe high, it's almost supposed
to be like 90.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Really, I think it's predicted at like 89 degrees
Murrow.

Speaker 2 (08:09):
It was really nice, which is weird.
Yeah, it was nice.
I hadn't been to St Louis for along time.

Speaker 1 (08:14):
Yeah, St Louis is a cool city.

Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, I have not been there for a long time.
The hotel is real quick, rightaround the corner, so that was
good.
But yeah, just doing a lot ofthe florida stuff and got the
first uh cut of the year on mylawn and it was freezing outside
yesterday, dude, it was cold,cold it was.

Speaker 1 (08:32):
It was cold and you were cutting lawn I was cutting
lawn.

Speaker 2 (08:34):
I was out there edging my rocks in the front of
the property.
I did a lot of shit, man.
I was done, I think, around 8,30 at night you know what
happened with me yesterday?

Speaker 1 (08:44):
I was watching my my lawnmower guy do it.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
It was, he looked cold yeah but I already that was
kind of sucked to be.
I seen him as I was coming in.
I'm like, oh, look at sean'sgrass looks really nice.
I already know they do anexcellent job.

Speaker 1 (09:00):
Yeah, whatever, hey, we all make choices, right see
your choice.

Speaker 2 (09:12):
Your choice was you.

Speaker 1 (09:13):
You married a captain right, well, she wasn't captain
when I married her.
That's what she is now.

Speaker 2 (09:19):
It doesn't matter what she was, it is, she is now
I did.

Speaker 1 (09:22):
I had vision when I met her he would be captain.

Speaker 2 (09:28):
He he plays on a golf course.
I'm the guy shagging balls onthe golf course.

Speaker 1 (09:34):
That's bullshit actually I think you're the guy
in the golf range picking up theball in a little little cage.

Speaker 2 (09:40):
You're so wrong.
I do know where you live.
I know where you live brother.

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Anyways, hey, you know what?
We've got uh a guest today anduh, we brought back uh john the
pilot, john the pilot, john thepilot he's uh back here to uh
come on the show with us again.
Because we thought, hey, therewas a lot of questions that we
had left to ask John and the andthe conversation was so
interesting We'd like just thewhole, you know, being a pilot

(10:08):
and all that stuff.
I know there was other peoplethat had already talked to me
about our episode said hey, youknow, that was a super
interesting episode, you shouldhave more guests on, and so
we're trying to do that, butJohn's back here.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
But you know, what I love about having him on the
show, though, is that we alwaystalk about this, too is that you
get a perspective from a pilot,and john's one of the best
people that do that, becausehe's in the industry for such a
long time yeah, so, john,welcome back to our show oh,
thanks guys.

Speaker 3 (10:33):
Uh, it's.
I'm thrilled to be back.

Speaker 1 (10:35):
You made me a little, made me a family, think I was,
uh, something else you know yeah, so you know, you know, like,
like, uh, the newspaper has,like the experts that sit in and
stuff, like we're going to bepulling you back when we have
Tories.
There's something happened.
We've got John the expert.

Speaker 3 (10:50):
John the pilot, Pilot .
Do I have to put on a realserious face?

Speaker 1 (10:54):
They can't see your face on there.
I kind of like that, so it'sokay, hey, welcome John the
pilot.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
That's right.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
It's like Dear Ann or dear, whatever it was.
What dear abby, exactly?

Speaker 3 (11:10):
yeah, exactly dear abby, we got a whole new section
of the show.
Well, you guys, it was a thrillfor me the first time to even
watch how you guys do this stuff, and uh, you're just naturals
at it well, we, it takes alittle bit of a practice and
everything, but we're, we'retrying to get better we're a
work in progress, right aconstant work, but anyways, hey,
john.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Um, one of the questions we didn't ask you last
time you're on here was likehow long have you been flying
like?
Or how long two parts to thatone commercially?
How long was your career andand total in life?
How long have you been flying?

Speaker 3 (11:43):
so I, uh will turn 66 in july.
All right, and uh, I soloedwhen I was 15.
So if I do my math right, yeah,51 years 51 years of flying,
total flying, total flying.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
And so then, like as a career and having it as a job,
how long, how many years wasthat?

Speaker 3 (12:03):
airline, airline wise , was 39, 39 years.
Prior to that I flewcorporately and did some other
commercial work for about threeor four other years, so about 40
, 43 years, 43 years.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
So, like on pilots, when I'm thinking about like
there's this like a graduated,like life of a pilot, like you
kind of like start off realsmall, of course, right that
private plane, and then you kindof like keep building up bigger
, bigger planes and all thatstuff, bigger airlines, bigger
jobs, all that stuff, biggerresponsibilities.
So like how many of those jobsdid you have before you got into

(12:41):
commercial aviation, like intothe main mainline
commercialization, not notcommuters, that are corporate.

Speaker 3 (12:49):
Right?
Um, well, let's think about it.
I mean, the progression for mewas you.
You went out and you got yourprivate license, and then you
got your commercial, yourinstrument, and then you get a
CFI, because that way you'd beable to go build time, learn a
lot, just trying to teach it toother people.

Speaker 1 (13:08):
Yeah, so CFI, you're a certified flight instructor.

Speaker 3 (13:12):
And then there's varying degrees of that.
You have the regular flightinstructor, you can get an
instrument flight instructorrating where you can teach
instruments, and then you get amulti-engine rating.
So once you do that, you'retrying to build time and the
whole idea particularly earlieron, like in my career, insurance
was always a big deal.
You had to have time indifferent types of airplanes,
you had to have experience to beable to get insured, to get a

(13:35):
job.
Oh really, yeah.
So it really made it kind oftough and so you just jumped
through every hoop that youcould and the more you you know,
flight instruct like inmulti-engine, was the big thing
to get multi-engine time,because obviously going into a
corporate position tomulti-engine airplane, so you
need the experience to to evenbe considered.

Speaker 1 (13:55):
You know what?
Insurance is something that Iwould not have ever even thought
about in pilots, Like like Ihad to be insured.

Speaker 3 (14:02):
Well, it's that way, you know, particularly in
general aviation, when you'rekind of coming up through the
ranks, okay, yeah and uh.
So so once I got thatopportunity, uh, in order to
build times, I I jumped throughall kinds of hoops.
I mean, I can remember a flightinstructing and then driving
down to uh Dover because therewas a company down there that

(14:25):
owned a company in Medina thatthey would fly their turboprop
airplane back and forth reallyquick hop.
And I knew the pilot and I said, hey, what's chance I could
come with you get someexperience.
And he said, yeah, sure, so I'dflight instruct in the morning,
run down, fly up with them, flyback with them, drive back

(14:45):
flight instructor somewhere, goback when he's going to pick the
people up, and you know you dostuff like that in order to kind
of build that experience andget the experience and all that
and then we talked about it lasttime.
Everybody needs a break and Igot that break with the company
and in the Akron area.
Initially that took a chance onme and then, you know, it's
kind of just smooth sailing.

(15:06):
Not smooth sailing.
I mean, there's the ups anddowns of aviation that we've all
been through, sure, and so Iwas.
I was fortunate that carrierthat I went with went through
ups and downs but it was didn'tever furlough me, yeah.
So I mean.

Speaker 1 (15:24):
I have lots of friends that are pilots that are
like they've, uh, like thewhole entire company shuts down,
right.
Right, like that happened afternine 11 and it happened after,
um, all all these differentsituations during the economic
turns of the country and stufflike that Right, so, um, yeah,
to have that happen and allthose fluctuations, and like, I
have a lot of flight attendantfriends that went out and got

(15:47):
their license and started to,you know they want to become
pilots and do a career of it andall that stuff.
But then that was right beforenine 11 hit and nine ahead 11
kind of like just decimated thewhole entire you know industry
and uh, people don't realizethat there was a lot of people
that you know industry and uh,people don't realize that there
was a lot of people that youknow they had aspirations and
doing things, but theopportunities just became so

(16:10):
slim.

Speaker 3 (16:10):
Right and then and then compounding on that, I
think, uh, and it's justpersonal opinion, but they made
the job so bad for people.
If you remember, you know theywere always looking for pay cuts
, bankruptcies, all this stuffthat everybody started looking
at that job going.
Well, why would I make aninvestment to get that job when
now they've knocked the pay downto a point that it's like you

(16:32):
know there's no return on your.

Speaker 1 (16:34):
Like my example, the flight attendant friends I had.
They were making more money asflight attendants, right in
order, and they can fly.
So if they went to fly, theywould literally be cutting their
pay in half, right you know.
And so they weren'tincentivized to like, make that
transition over.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
So it was even you know a level, uh, transition and
so, consequently, they made ashortage of pilots, which is
where we find ourselves nowindustry-wide.
You know, they're trying tocome up with people and and it's
kind of a tough thing yeah,it's interesting.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
I mean, then, I think that when you talk about pilots
, it's definitely another aspectof it.
Is that to me?
Um, pilots do one of the careerand I don't know any other
thing off the top of my headthat does this but it's the only
one, of the only careers outthere that has this age
discrimination happening rightwith it.
I mean, it's that's exactlywhat it's called is age

(17:28):
discrimination, that it's anindustry that has very, very old
, antiquated rules that arebeing applied.
Today's system and the healthand well wellness of us, you
know it's, it's lengthening.
You know, back in the day, maybein the fifties, you know people
didn't live to be a hundred.
You know people didn't work tolengthening.
You know, back in the day,maybe in the 50s, you know
people didn't live to be ahundred.
You know people didn't work tobe, you know, beyond 60.

(17:50):
You know 50 at that point.
But so these rules are for thepeople that don't understand.
That's what I'm talking about.
Is that it's the rule is thatpilots can only fly in
commercially up to 65 incommercial aviation, and you'd
have to like, tell me what, what, what part rule is that FAR
part.

Speaker 3 (18:08):
Right, it's.
It's just a mandatoryretirement age of 65 to fly for
an air carrier, but that's onlythat's so.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Air carriers fly that are flying under part.

Speaker 3 (18:17):
What?
What is that?
121.
121.
I don't believe it applies to135.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, 135.
So those are, that's 135.

Speaker 3 (18:26):
So that's the charter executive jets and you can fly
for.
Like corporations fly underPart 91, which is just kind of
the same general aviation rules,like if you guys went out and
grabbed an airplane and learnedto fly and flew around, sure,
same rules those airplanesoperate under.
So you know, technically a guycan fly to the with them until

(18:48):
whenever yeah, whatever as longas he's comfortable with.

Speaker 1 (18:51):
Yeah yeah, as long as they can pass their medical.
And then the things that youguys have to do on a regular
basis to keep your faacertification, which is how I
think it should be everywhere.
Like I don't really get thesepart things.
You know, like the different.
There shouldn't be a differencebetween corporate flying and
commercial aviation, you know,as far as I'm concerned, as far

(19:12):
as like, can I do this job orcan't I do this job, I think
it's a really uh, sometime inhistory.
I hope someday that they willwipe that away and say, listen,
if you can do these X, y and Zand pass the medical, you can
fly.

Speaker 2 (19:28):
But you know something going to that to talk
about that.
With the medical, though, Ithink that once you get to 65, I
think once you get to 65, nowJohn's in great shape, Okay,
Right, but I think it should bea more extensive medical for you
to.
If you choose to go on, Ibelieve that then you should be
able to go on to well, that'swhat I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (19:50):
Like the, the medical , it could be anything whatever.
Whatever they want to change itto Right, but don't
discriminate because age no.

Speaker 2 (19:58):
I totally faculty's don't shut off at 65.

Speaker 1 (20:01):
Yep.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Cause we're sitting next to one of the one of the
best pilots I've ever flown with, and I'm telling you that in a
65, I take this man in thecockpit any day.

Speaker 1 (20:10):
Right, I mean right now John could fly the plane,
absolutely no problems.
I mean that's why it's like ageshouldn't be.
They're discriminating becauseof age.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
And it's just an old antiquated rule.

Speaker 1 (20:21):
It's kind of like this like you know, like the
time change right now, yeah, Idon't know where you guys stand
on it, but I hate the timechange.
I don't, you know, but it's anold rule that happened and it's
still in place today.
Right, right.

Speaker 3 (20:34):
What do you?

Speaker 2 (20:35):
think about that.

Speaker 3 (20:36):
I, you know, I, uh, obviously I resigned myself to
the fact I couldn't change it.
But uh, I agree, because whenyou think about it, we go
through all kinds of.
I had to do a physical everysix months, you know, an EKG
once a year and I have checksevery nine months, Right?
So supposedly if I'm startingto diminish, somebody would

(21:00):
notice something, Not only thatyou're flying with somebody else
.
That I mean.
And you, you know everyone thecrew's going to notice if, like
hey, there's something wrongwith him.

Speaker 2 (21:09):
Yeah, exactly Cognitive test or something like
that.

Speaker 1 (21:11):
But you know I mean, but let them have that
opportunity.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
That's my point.
Is I like?

Speaker 1 (21:16):
this industry.
A lot of people don'tunderstand that we're have a
shortage right now of pilotsindustry.
Why shortage right now ofpilots industry?
Why, because, one, thecommercial airline business is
expanding and more people aretraveling and we just, you know,
we're just a different worldnow and so, as that growth is
happening, we're kind ofconstraining ourselves from that
growth because of these oldantiquated rules, right, you

(21:40):
know?
I mean I, I don't, that's justmy personal opinion.
I think it's a terrible.
I'm surprised that, like I know, there's different standpoints
from the union standpoints tothe personal standpoints to, you
know, to the government and allthis stuff.
They all have differentopinions about what should be
happening and stuff, and I knowthat comes up.
But I just thought it'sinteresting, it's interesting

(22:02):
topic to talk about and stuff.
It really is.
And I talk about and stuff.

Speaker 3 (22:04):
No, it really is, and I I I agree with you Everything
you said about it.
I just think that it's it'ssilly.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
Yeah, it's silly, I mean a perfect perfect example.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
I can't do it.
Yeah, Perfect example.
How long were you on the seven?

Speaker 3 (22:18):
three, 15 years of my career 15 years of your career.

Speaker 2 (22:24):
We, like we had said before you had flown with Chris.
Both of you guys know thatplane like the back of your hand
.

Speaker 1 (22:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:31):
Right there, I mean that that will tell you the
experience over the age any dayof the week and the week.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
I mean, it's the same for us, so like, and for a
flight attendant, like.
We don't have age restrictionsright you know.
I mean, there's some flightattendants we've been flying
with that didn't don't need tohave their ass on the plane.
For sure they need to retire,they need to find something else
to do, but that's a wholenother subject.
But at the same time, pilotsshould have that, you know,

(23:00):
option is that.
That's how I feel and I wish I'mvery surprised in this today's
world where they're so litigious.
That is that the how do you saythat, like the legal whatever,
uh, that somebody hasn't finallyjust said enough's, enough, I'm
suing.
I'm going to sue the government.
This is age discrimination, youknow.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
Right, right, interesting enough enough, they
did have a bunch of guys Iactually knew uh, two of them
just through the course of mycareer that were petitioning the
faa to do that and it lookedlike, you know, prior to last
summer, that maybe something wasgoing to happen.
But uh, the the union, forwhatever reason, doesn't want it
, and I don't know why yeah,it's.

Speaker 1 (23:44):
It's a very interesting dynamic and with
when you start talking about thewhole subject of that, because
there's so these differentviewpoints and the union has
this.
You know, unions usually wantmore people to have more jobs,
but for some reason the pilotunions seem like they they want
the younger pilots to be able tohave that opportunity.
So this is kind of like asystem that's in place already

(24:06):
and they're setting their wayskind of like the flushed old and
get in the new type of thing.
You know which.

Speaker 3 (24:11):
I understand that aspect of it, but at the same
time there's so many jobs neededright now, like there's so many
pilots needed, you know and,like you were saying, it's too
bad because I know quite a fewguys about my age that have been
retiring and it's like they'reall quite capable, like Gary
says, you know, I mean, if youwant some kind of a check and
balance, I mean I can'treiterate the fact that when you

(24:33):
deal as a crew, you know as ateam, when you're flying the
airplane, that there's all kindsof checks just right there at
that level, right.

Speaker 2 (24:43):
It's just experience, I mean as a crew member.
We're sitting in the back ofthe plane.
I'll tell you this a thousandtimes over.
We get some of the craziest assturbulence coming into cleve
when we get crosswinds,everything.
And it would not.
I've said this already.
You've been gone.
You've been gone a few monthsand I've already said you know
when we're coming in we'regetting getting our ass tossed

(25:03):
all around the back of thatthing.
And I used to say all the timenever did I think twice about it
when you and Chris are up inthe cockpit, never even worried
about it.
Never did.
I mean truthfully, never did.
But you know a lot of theseyoung guns.
You just don't I mean, we don'tknow, I mean and nothing
against them.
But you know there's somethingto be said for experience and

(25:26):
and when you exactly what yousaid, sean, is it's age
discrimination and if these guyspass the medical and they still
want to fly, should be able tofly yeah safety is always first
right.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
That's what they said right and if you're, if you're
passing everything, do it and Iunderstand a lot of guys in with
the union about moving up.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
But listen, most of these guys and we're a lot of
people don't understand.
Years ago to move up from afirst officer to a captain, it
took you sometimes like 10 to 12years just to make that upgrade
.
Now it's like a year.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
It's even less because now they have situations
and we're talking about nowwe're getting into that growth
and that growth of airlines andthe availability of air and
aviation Like we've are growing.
These companies are growing sofast.
We're getting into these likeeconomic air, like an example is
, our company is has a base inSan Fran and they want to expand

(26:20):
that and the problem with thatis that it's an economic thing,
right, you can't afford toexpand that and the problem with
that is that it's an economicthing, right, you can't afford
to live there.
You can't hire enough people tostay there.
Every time they put peoplethere they've had, but they want
to.
They still want to grow thatmarket and make it bigger, but
the pilots, even at their entry,Sally, can't afford to be there
.

(26:41):
So you got to figure out thiswhole dynamics of like how are
you going, you know, if youdon't have the, you know the
pilots or the employees willingto go to those markets, right,
right, yep, so it's, it's a,really it's a it's.
It's an interesting situationthat's happening out there that

(27:02):
I know many of our listenersprobably don't understand some
of the dynamics of the airlineindustry.
But these are some of theproblems that are out there that
we're kind of like internallyinside the world of aviation,
that we we deal with and talkabout as flight attendants and
pilots and stuff.
But hey, john, how manydifferent aircrafts over your
career have you flown?

Speaker 3 (27:22):
So you gave me a heads up on some of the things
you wanted to talk about.
So I had to go back through, Isat down and I actually started
listing them all and I think Igot the majority of them.
It was 53, 53, 53 types that isa lot of aircraft.

Speaker 1 (27:40):
That's a lot of airplanes I mean, I don't think
I've flown 53 different classyou know, let me, let me uh 53
different models models ofairplanes okay so you broke it
down.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
Yeah, so 73 has like five different models.
And I didn't, I didn't countthat, I just went seven, three.
But yeah, they do, but mainlyit's airplanes that were
different.

Speaker 1 (27:59):
And that's, and that's the interesting aspect of
pilots too.
Like I think that people don'tunderstand, like you, like, if I
, if I was a bus driver, I'mdriving this one type of bus,
right.
Or if I'm a truck driver, I'mdriving this one type of bus,
right.
Or if I'm a truck driver, I'mdriving this one type of dress
and I have a license to drivethat type of bus, as a pilot,
you get certified on, or typerated on, a certain type of

(28:20):
plane, right, and uh, seven,three is a wild example of like
how many different models thatif you're, once you're, type
rated, you can fly all of themright, correct, yeah, and then
the configurations are muchdifferent, right, oh, yep, talk
to that yeah, so technically, asthe 7-3 type rating, you could

(28:40):
fly a 737-100.

Speaker 3 (28:41):
I don't think there's any in existence anymore we
flew them.

Speaker 1 (28:44):
Those were the junk jets.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Remember those we flew.

Speaker 1 (28:51):
We talked about those torpedo engines and that's the
aircraft I met my wife on.
No, no kidding Right.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
So you could do the ones, the twos, and then you go
into the threes, fours, fives,right.
Then you go to the NGs and youhad the 800 series and then you
went to the 900, and then youwent to 900ER and then they
introduced the MAX MAX and withthe 900 er, and then they
introduced the max right, and soyou have the max eight and the
max nine, and then we havedifferent configurations.

(29:20):
Well, our, yeah, my previousemployer, your employer, uh,
because during the whole covidthing, people deferred their
deliveries and yeah, theyactually stepped up and they
took a bunch of deliveries.
So we have airplanes that areslight different, configurations
that we fly to.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
So, from company to company, uh, a 737 inside the
cockpit is configured differentfrom company company, correct?
Yes, and so that's anotherthing people don't understand
with with flying.
Like, I know one company rightnow that use HUDs and you know
they fly HUDs all day, which isheads up displays, which we are

(30:01):
now having those in our cars andstuff like that which I love,
my HUD and but yeah, so theythey're flying those things like
all you know that in thesedifferent companies, but our
company chose not to have themand so we don't fly with them in
our company.
But you get all these differentconfigurations and especially

(30:22):
when you merge companies in theairline business, you get all
these different planes ofdifferent configurations,
interiors, exteriors and allthat stuff, and then they
reconfigure them to theirstandards, Right, Right.

Speaker 2 (30:34):
Right.

Speaker 1 (30:34):
Which is, which is, which is the interesting aspect
of the business that peopledon't understand, and in in
doing that, we have to all betype rated on those planes.

Speaker 3 (30:43):
Right, right.
Well, you guys are multifaceted, cause you can go the entire
fleet Right, you know you.
You guys have to deal with atleast from our perspective, it
is just you know the, the fleet,right right, right.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
I mean, there's no plane in our, in our company,
that a flight attendant can'ttouch.
We're trained on every part ofeverything.
Yeah, so it doesn't matterwhere, each system, the safety
systems on each planes.
We so, just like all themulti-different uh types of 737s
you have, we're trained to beon all those different types of
planes, which is a challenge.

(31:16):
And you don't have to memorizeit, people, because if I did, I
wouldn't be employed here.

Speaker 2 (31:24):
You know it's funny.
I was sitting there thinking,when you started naming them off
, all the 7-3s, how long I'vebeen here and I've actually
flown every one of those planesMe too.
Oh my God, I would go back tothe DC.
I was sitting there thinking ofthe DC-910, the little
snub-nosed plane.
I mean, do you ever?

Speaker 1 (31:39):
remember that one.
Well, they had the 10s the 30s,the 50s, the 80s, like the
McDonnell Douglas or the FD-80s.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
Yeah, air buses, all the air.
Remember back in the day withthe Airbuses, because everything
was Boeing right, so the Airbuswould always break down
somewhere.
They used to carry a lot of theparts in the belly, yeah, and a
lot of times you would landsomewhere and the maintenance
guy wouldn't be certified towork on an Airbus and you're

(32:09):
just going to get canceled rightthere.
You knew it was done.
It was dead in the water.

Speaker 1 (32:12):
Yeah, we used to call it the scare bus.
Scare bus, yeah, I mean, thatwas the nickname in the previous
company we worked for, but itwas like, yeah, we didn't have a
good history with that as faras the air bus.
And I know some companies.
You know that's the only planethey fly.
But there's different models ofthe air buses too as well, and
I'm not so familiar with the airbus Cause I'm so.

(32:34):
We've flown so much Boeing inour in our lifetime.
But there's, they've got allthe different levels.

Speaker 2 (32:39):
But back then we just didn't have have a lot of air
bus, we only had we had theseven threes.

Speaker 1 (32:44):
I stayed away from it .
Yeah, we had a lot of theBoeing, so, yeah, a maintenance
nightmare back then.
Yeah, maintenance nightmare.
Yeah, there's other aspects tothe plane too that, uh, we won't
go into right now, but what,why we stayed away from him, but
uh, anyways.
Uh, john, let's talk about this.
Um, what was one of the mostfun experiences that you had in

(33:09):
your career?
Like something, it doesn't haveto be within the airline, like
out of all that flying that youjust talked about, like what was
one of the most spectacularevents that you've had with this
?
That was just like I'm this isamazing, because I'm a pilot and
I'm doing this- oh, interestingquestion.

Speaker 3 (33:27):
Uh, in thinking about that, this is going to be
probably pretty boring.
But the one that stuck out inmy mind was flying 7-3, 3s and
5s had a layover in.
Where do they do the Rapid City, south Dakota?
I was trying to think of theHarley thing.

(33:47):
I think that's near the BlackHills.
Sturgis, yeah, sturgis is upthere.
So we were laying over there andthe hotel lobby actually had a
Christmas tree with ornaments onit with little kids' names,
right, Right.
And so I was a first officer atthe time, and the captain, the
whole crew, we were all stayingtogether.
So we got to rent a car and wewent to the mall and we all

(34:11):
fulfilled somebody's you knowdreams on there.

Speaker 1 (34:14):
Oh, so this was like a gift tree.

Speaker 3 (34:16):
Yeah, and it just it left me with probably one of the
most memorable times.
You know we all went out as acrew and had dinner and stuff
and had fun, but that was themost memorable part.
I mean, I know that sounds sad.

Speaker 1 (34:29):
No, that is that is.
That's a perfect, that is aperfect story.
I mean, that's one of theexperiences that I enjoy this
career.
For is that all the differentbonding experiences that we get
with the crew members and allthe different crew members we
get to meet, because we're notalways flying with the same.
You know, we do typically inthis base that we're in right

(34:50):
now, because it's pretty smalland depending on what type of
flying you do, but early in yourcareer you're moving about the
country all over because youjust don't have a choice.
They're kind of sending you andyou go, and it doesn't matter
if you're a pilot or a flightattendant.
That's the echelon of yourcareer, right.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
Right, spend a lot of holidays together, yeah.

Speaker 1 (35:11):
A lot, of a lot of restaurants together and eating
meals together, and then, butthat that's a perfect, uh,
that's a perfect room, you knowstory.

Speaker 3 (35:19):
And then secondarily was uh, I was a new.
Within my first year I was a DCeight flight engineer.
Remember DC eight?

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Wow, we just took, you, took it way back to to the
DC-8.

Speaker 3 (35:33):
So my wife was an Eastern flight attendant at the
time, you know, and so we wereboth kind of out there on a trip
we're doing a late night to theWest Coast and I mentioned to
the crew.
I said I heard an Easternflight check on and I go yeah, I
think that's the one my wife'son.

Speaker 1 (35:51):
That's cool Really yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:53):
So next thing I know the co-pilot goes hey, eastern.
And he goes yeah, and he goes.
Our engineer thinks his wife'son your flight, what's her name?
Tells him they go Right.
Next thing I know we're sittingthere and I hear my wife's
voice on ATC going hi, john, ohI hear my wife's voice on ATC

(36:14):
going hi, John.
Oh, that is so cool and I'mlike, but you know, I'm on
probation thinking yeah, whatare they doing?
I'm like, I'm going to firethem.

Speaker 1 (36:22):
Nobody shows you chattering.
This isn't like a walkie talkie, so I give myself into it.

Speaker 3 (36:28):
Chat it a little bit and then next thing, you know,
the ATC guys goes.
Well, I hate to break you guysup, but uh, yeah, we're gonna
get back to one of us you'resupposed to fly.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
It's a, so that's where two of my two of my fun,
really fun times yeah, that is.
Those are those experiences andlike all these like little
teeny things that happen in inour, in our careers are just, uh
, spectacular.
Like, when it comes to mind meis that you know how one thing
that we hate about this businessis the irregularities of it,
that that we get, like, you know, we think that we're going to

(37:03):
get to fly down to Florida andnext thing, you know, we're
laying over in San Francisco.
You know, like those thingshappen constantly and I had a
bit like that where you know itwas a total shit show across the
whole nation.
Weather was bad, planes werediverting, you know, things were
changing and both my wife and Iwere flying and we both ended

(37:24):
up in the same city and it wasunscheduled, unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
So yeah.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
So we both end up staying in San Francisco on the
same nights, diverting totallyunscheduled, and got to stay a
night there with my wife, youknow, so it was really cool.

Speaker 3 (37:40):
Yeah, isn't it amazing the small nuanced things
that just stick in your mind.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like I can remember that layover
, like details of this.
You know the Game of Thrones,those big, what do they?
They call them werewolves ormerwolves or something.
Anyway, they're giant, thesegiant dogs that they made like
these wolves in the show.
And there was one, a lady, thatactually lived in this hotel on

(38:06):
san francisco.
She's been living there forlike I don't know how long.
Have you met her?

Speaker 3 (38:10):
I did, oh, no way.
I know yeah, and two big.
What were those dogs she had?

Speaker 1 (38:14):
well, one was I.
His name was like Zeus orsomething like that was it like
an Irish wolfhound or something.
No, no, no, these I can't um.
I'll have to look it up, butI'm sure some of the listeners
are like yelling out right nowthat's this, but um, but I mean
I'm talking.
This dog is a massive and theylook like giant wolves.
That's what they look like, but, friendliest dog you'd ever

(38:38):
they were.

Speaker 3 (38:38):
And that's amazing Cause she, I, we chatted with
her one day waiting for the vanto go back to doing all night
yeah exactly A lot of a lot ofpeople.

Speaker 1 (38:46):
we would have that layover in San Fran and she
lived it in the top floor ofthat hotel.

Speaker 3 (38:49):
She's been there for like I don't know 15, 20 years.
And it's crazy.
Like the FO is sitting theregoing.
Now let's figure the math outon this.

Speaker 1 (38:57):
And it actually made sense versus the real estate out
there, right, and she was intoreal estate, the lady and
everything.
But these are the weirdencounters and the people that
we meet along our journeys ofour career, but that's one thing
that I remembered about it.

Speaker 2 (39:18):
John career, but that's that's one thing that I
remembered about it.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
John, the worst experience that you had with a
flight attendant, and not theone directly across from you or
the one next to you.
You know you'd exclude thosestories.

Speaker 2 (39:25):
Okay, what was the worst experience that you had
with a flight attendant?

Speaker 3 (39:29):
So I, uh, I had to think about this question too,
cause most of the time I justget along with everybody you
know, and particularly in thelatter years of my life, I was
always flying with you guys orpeople that I knew.

Speaker 1 (39:40):
Right, but you know, we're some quirky, we're some
quirky crowds, oh for sure.
Like everybody's just, you'renot quirky at all.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
Not, not even a little bit.
No, not Mr Quirky.
Over here, john Go ahead been?

Speaker 3 (39:52):
no, not mr quirky over here.
John, go ahead.
What was your work?
Well, I, I was flying europe atthe time, and so we go.
The two first officers they'daugment the crew going there for
time.
You know, there'd be twoco-pilots and a captain.
So we're walking out to theairplane and the flight
attendants are there and they'vegot like an extension cord
running down into the 67 to dosome cleaning.
Well, this lead flight goes.

(40:13):
Nobody go on board because it'sdangerous.
This, this cord running downthe thing.

Speaker 1 (40:20):
And so I look at the two co-pilots.

Speaker 3 (40:22):
They look at me and like what?
So we go down and you know, westarted doing our stuff, you
know, and finally come down andshe was just a very interesting
person you know to deal with andand uh, everything was a
problem, everything, and it gotto the point we were joking
about it.
All right, guys, are we takinghow long till we get another

(40:42):
call from the back?
And we had it down to like oneguy was going I'm saying about
three minutes, you know, andliterally we were getting calls
from the back every five minutesand it was just goofball stuff.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
I mean, you guys would yeah, john, we just talked
about our one percenters.
We just talked about thecrazy-ass people that nobody
wants to see on an airplane, andyou just wonder where they came
from.

Speaker 3 (41:05):
So we finally get, almost get to London, and then
at one time I forget the exactscenario Something happened in
the cabin.
It was one of those rareflights where we had federal air
marshals on board.
And you know how it's kind ofrandom, but we know as a crew
when they're on and when they'renot, and it's like the last
thing you want to do is exposethese guys, right?
So she calls up and goes well,we're having this problem and

(41:27):
I've told the FAMs they need tosit by the door and this, and
that.
So she's totally exposing theseguys now.
Oh my gosh, and I'm sittingthere going A little bit of a
problem there.
Oh my gosh.
Yeah, so we get on the groundin London.
I'm so happy it's over.
And of course, then I find outwe've got them going back.
Let's do it again.
So I get on the elevator andthe door opens back up and two

(41:56):
of the younger flight attendantscome in and go.
Door closes.
They go what would you think offlying with so-and-so?
And I said, well, it wasdefinitely different.
They go.
Yeah, you know why?
Because she did complain whenshe first got on.
She said well, the lead flightattendant called in sick, and so
now I'm here, you know, sure,they both said you know why that
she called in sick.
And no, she actually came towork, saw that this person was

(42:20):
on the flight and said bye.

Speaker 2 (42:21):
Called in sick.

Speaker 3 (42:23):
I'm going home.

Speaker 1 (42:24):
She already knew those two flights, what it was
going to be like that's what wedo when we go to pick a trip up.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
We look at the crew.

Speaker 3 (42:32):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, oh hell, no, no, ain't worth the
money is not worth the money soall the way home we're joking
again about all right, how long.
And on the taxi out ding, shehad some big problem, you know.
And then we're flight log andfinally one of the, the one
first officer.
It was a lot like shawnactually he had, he had just a
great sense of humor and he wasvery a lot of dry wit to him.

(42:53):
Sure, and she called again andI just said, would you take that
?
And so he picks it up and shegoes well.
I just want you to know.
We just had a passenger andso-and-so throw up and without
batting an eye, the guy goeswell, what color is the vomit?
And she goes.

(43:17):
What he goes.
Well, what color is the vomit?
And she goes, she goes what hegoes.
Well, what color is the vomit?
He goes.
The company now wants us toreport what color the vomit is.
That's a perfect comeback.
And she hung up and we didn'thear from her anymore.
So she might've got the message, but I was just like but that
was probably.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
what color is the vomit such?
But I was just like, but thatwas probably what color is the
vomit and um, and what, whatdoes it smell like?
Yeah, we need, we need a deeperdescription of the smell.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
but that was, that was it.
I mean you.

Speaker 2 (43:47):
You know how we all had the people that were kind of
annoying that she just kind ofdealt with all these, all these
years of flying brother.
You know that there's a lotmore than that, but that was a
funny one.
Okay, let's talk about years offlying brother.
You know that there's a lotmore than that, but that was a
funny one.
Okay, let's talk about the mostchallenging situation that
you've ever faced flyingairlines, or just uh, anytime,
anytime anytime being a pilotyou know, probably generalized,

(44:07):
it's just kind of the uh.

Speaker 3 (44:09):
The weather aspect of things is probably the uh.
It can get kind of exciting,particularly if you're trying to
like beat a front end to anairport or something and you're
always changing your mind andsure zigging and zagging and you
know you probably hear fromcarol all the time trying to
well, mother nature, she has herown plan and you're just a part
of it exactly right, exactly,uh.

(44:31):
But uh, you know, I I doremember as a young pilot, when
I was once again talking aboutbuilding time, flew a guy.
He owned his own plane but flewhim and a couple of people over
to Milwaukee Airport and then,coming out, the weather wasn't
looking good Lots ofthunderstorms around the, around
the lakes, and you're talkingabout a small plane, no radar,
no, nothing, right, so there's,yeah, we can get this done.

(44:54):
You know the attitude so there Iam at night, single engine over
the lake with thunderstorms,and I just remember thinking to
myself at one point what haveyou gotten yourself?

Speaker 1 (45:07):
how did I get to this situation and it was.

Speaker 3 (45:10):
It was pretty challenging, just the weather,
because it was a terrible ride.
A lot of rain, you know, andright in a small airplane.
When you get into even in thejets, if you get into a lot of
like you, you don't, you stayaway from the weather, but
you'll get into static areaswhere the radios start kind of
going oh, yeah and uh, and so Ijust remember being in that
small plane and going holy cow,I was sweating like that.

(45:34):
So that was probably the mostexciting and I think we touched
on it before too With theairlines.
I always felt pretty preparedfor everything and as you that
experience level, as you go,exactly, you just keep yourself
out of problem.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Right, yeah, you learn, it's just like we do with
age Right.
Yeah, you learn, it's just likelike we do it with age right.
We become more conservative, orrage, and a little bit of not
taking so many risks with ourlives.
Exactly, exactly.

Speaker 3 (46:04):
Right.
So I wish I had one of those.
There I was stories for you,but I really don't.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
There it was.
It was coming in at a bank of25.

Speaker 2 (46:12):
Yeah, you know what we say all the time the best
flight is boring and uneventful.
That's right.
That's it.
In this industry, boring anduneventful is the best flight to
have.
Now you can have all thoseYouTube videos that you want.
Go ahead and have them.
I don't want them.
I'll take the boring anduneventful, but I don't want
them.
I'll take the boring anduneventful, but here's a

(46:34):
question for you have you ever,like has a bird ever, chased the
plane or had some kind ofwildlife encounter that happened
when you were flying?

Speaker 3 (46:43):
Or funny Birds are constant, right.
Yeah, I mean you're alwaysdealing with birds and you hope
you miss them half the timeBecause there's not a lot of
stuff you can do.
I mean you sit there and it'snot like you can just weave down
, right, I mean you're kind ofcommitted to the direction
you're going.
You try to try to clear thearea, like Florida.
You know we always early in mycareer I found running the radar

(47:04):
messes with their heads alittle bit.
So really there was some theoryabout it because I went to some
radar class as a corporatepilot.
And so I some radar class as acorporate pilot, and so I just
always tried to do that and butyou'd hit them.
You know where's it we go intoall the time.
It seems like we always hitbirds panama right because
they've got you down panama city.
They keep you low over the bayright and then you come in and
seems like every time I wentdown there we hit birds yeah,

(47:27):
bird strikes.

Speaker 1 (47:27):
I mean, we've all been on planes with bird strikes
.
It seems like it's but as, butas far as that, yeah, with the
airlines.

Speaker 3 (47:33):
No, I haven't hit any of the the bigger animals with
a small plane, even my own, myown plane, right One night
landing down at the airport downhere and I caught movement out
of the left side and there's adeer.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Oh no, and I was like oh no, don't.

Speaker 3 (47:57):
And he looked like you know how they zig and zag
you don't know which way afreaking deer is going this way,
you know, because my partnerswould love a new prop and yeah
it's amazing how much thosedeers can do damage to your
vehicle oh sorry like it doesn'ttake real large deer to like
tear your car or plane up, youknow.
No, we did hit one night goingout of Orlando.

(48:21):
It was probably my I was a 7.5first officer, took off at night
and I used to constantly, youknow, you guys would come up
with the counts and I'd alwayssit there back in the old days
when we did counts, sure, and Iwould write them all down.
So I knew, you know, if we hada problem, I knew it.
Well, it was like the last,like all we were doing was
Orlando over to, uh, uh, fortMyers and uh, we took off, went

(48:43):
through an overcast.
We were just accelerating it.
Suddenly we got this huge bangand a surge and one of the
engines and and we were likewhat in the world, right, and we
got dings from the back andthey were going, hey, we're film
with smoke, you know, oh, wow,and we're like what the world?
And it sounded to us like itwas just right behind us that it

(49:05):
happened.
So we happened to have a jumpseater.
Captain sent him back to gokind of check on things.
We told orlina we had to comeback, you know, and, um, we
could not figure it out, and atone point the jump seeker wasn't
coming back.
We were getting another dingfrom the aft again going.
It's really full of smoke backhere and we're like, all right,
we're on our way back in, youknow, sure, and uh, we come in

(49:28):
and it turned out we had hit, uh, some geese you know at the
time in retrospect.
You sit there and go oh, weshould have known that's what it
was.
But it was just one of thosethings that we hit them right on
the ray dome and we put twothrough the right engine and so
it did that little burp thing,but they were all operating
after that just fine.
It's amazing.

Speaker 1 (49:48):
And then the smoke.

Speaker 3 (49:49):
And the smoke was we obviously were cooking them.
Yeah, and the smoke was weobviously were cooking them,
yeah, as they go through the.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
It wasn't Christmas time, right Right.
This isn't like Christmas goose.

Speaker 2 (49:57):
I'm sitting here thinking cooking them, shit
cooking them.
That damn thing went rightthrough there.
There wasn't shit cooking inthere.

Speaker 1 (50:03):
John Chop suey goose.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
There's nothing but feathers on the side of that
thing Right.

Speaker 3 (50:09):
And then we came back and the funniest part of that
was after we got back to thegate and then we obviously
canceled and we went to thehotel and we had passengers on
the van with us, you know, sure,and they're all sitting there
going oh my gosh, were you guysthe crew?
And we go, yeah.
And he said, oh, it was so youknow nervous and stuff.
And I said yeah, but didn't youhear our announcements?

Speaker 1 (50:40):
We made announcements and said no, it's not.
And they just said we didn'tbelieve you.
You should have told me youwere serving geese.
Yeah, it's crazy, I mean.
But I mean how many airlinesand you know how many planes out
there on a daily basis hitwildlife, I mean it's, it's
unbelievable, the uh, you knowlike pita's out here probably
like screaming you know planesand stuff, like how much we like
take care of like so many birdpopulations and stuff you know,
and I feel bad, I don't likeright, but it's just like it's

(51:01):
almost unavoidable I live on agolf course.
You can take out as many goosesas you want.
Yeah, now you're gonna getpeter right, it was like yikes,
but hey, so here.
Here here's a.
We're going to ask one lastquestion here, cause we're
running up on time here, but Ijust wanted to know you know the

(51:22):
the movie airplane.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (51:25):
Classic yeah, yeah, yeah.
So how much is that in reallife?

Speaker 3 (51:30):
Sarcastically all, all of it, yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:34):
You know why I bring this up was how about the first
officer?
The first officer?
Didn't you see the airplane?
The first officer?
Yeah, kareem.
No, when the first officerdeflated, she had to go.
Oh, you did oh yeah, theautopilot.

Speaker 1 (51:48):
Oh yeah, that's right , that was the autopilot.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
I'm sorry about that Autopilot Definitely.
It was funny.

Speaker 1 (51:55):
That was fun.
Yeah, there's so many aspectsto the movie, but the why I'd
like to bring this question upwas was this is like how much of
plane movies like airlinemovies and stuff that we watch
and out there in the world andpeople believe like that's like
reality.
You know plane movies, likeairline movies and stuff that we
watch and out there in theworld and people believe like
that's like reality.
You know, like how many ofthese plane movies that we're

(52:16):
having to be seeing we're likethat shit ain't true, right yeah
, I mean it almost ruins it,doesn't it right?

Speaker 3 (52:24):
my wife won't go to an aviation movie with me
because she goes.
Oh, you just ruin it all thetime because won't go to an
aviation movie with me becauseshe goes.

Speaker 1 (52:30):
Oh, you just ruin it all the time because that's like
snakes on the plane right, yeah, well, I mean like they have
all these like crazy things likeyou know, like, uh, the you
know guys like taking over theplane and he's like terrorizing
the whole plane, the entireflight, but you don't know who
it is, and things like like areyou no held on?

Speaker 2 (52:44):
to the wheel?
Well, went up through the belly, came up through the bottom of
it, found a way into the plane,saved everybody.
Yeah, no, freezing your ass offgetting into the wheel.

Speaker 3 (52:55):
Well, how about going back to airplane?
I think my favorite part was doyou remember going to LAX?
Yeah, a long time ago, early inyour career.
And the white zone is forloading and unloading.
And that one just like crack meup.
Spot on, spot on, spot on.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
It's like, yeah, there's those those classic like
you're, just like there's funny, like the like scenarios and
situations that like attributeto all these different
situations that we're in, likethat we can totally relate to.
But, uh, sometimes, sometimes I,you know, I'm afraid that like
what the public really believes,you know, fake airline theories

(53:37):
or whatever you want to call itinformation, oh it's just like
that yeah, yeah, like, likeevery plane has this, you know,
and then you're like no, no, no,no, no, so, anyways, hey, so we
want to do the um uh, we wantto talk about those.
We're gonna do that.
Little flash questions, again.
Flash questions, yeah, littlelittle hot questions here.

(53:57):
So I, I got, I got a list here.
G doesn't have all the lists, soI'm just running me out I cut
them out, but here it is becausewe're just going to do this
quick.
So how many pairs of 88aviators do you actually own?

Speaker 3 (54:11):
one.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
And are they all mirrored?
No, and do you wake up with acaptain voice or do you have a
warmup?

Speaker 3 (54:30):
I'm not sure I ever warmed up to it.
It was who I was.

Speaker 1 (54:36):
Exactly so, true or false?
Were you born with perfectposture or a slight smirk?

Speaker 3 (54:43):
Slight smirk.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
Slight smirk, okay.

Speaker 3 (54:55):
And how many pilot watches or too many pilot
watches do you have?
I have two.
Two, I have two and one, one Iinherited, oh, that's cool.
And then one that I I bought,yeah, and there's no batteries
in any either of them at thispoint.
They're both dead.

Speaker 1 (55:07):
So all right, wow, but you know everything's went
digital now.
So like this pilot watch is.
There's no batteries in eitherof them at this point.
They're both dead, wow.

Speaker 3 (55:13):
You know everything's went digital now.
So this pilot watch is.
It's funny.
You say that because I rememberas a new guy sitting back there
and some captain showed up witha typical aviation pilot watch
and he's bragging to everybodyabout it and you know it costs
more than I made in the firstyear, and so he's sitting there
and I go.
Well, I held up my Casio and Igo well, does it do this?

(55:35):
No, and I said well, can it dothis?
And he goes no, no.

Speaker 2 (55:41):
It's got a light on it too.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (55:45):
Technology changes.
Casio light.
Yeah, technology changes.

Speaker 3 (55:56):
So uh, do you say Roger that in real life
conversations, just because youcan Roger Roger, that I knew
that was coming.

Speaker 1 (56:02):
I knew that was coming.

Speaker 3 (56:06):
That was, that was a softball.

Speaker 1 (56:07):
Yeah, yeah, and so, uh, yeah and so ever secretly
judge another pilot walking downthe tarmac.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
I judge Chris all the time.

Speaker 3 (56:21):
On walk-arounds.
On the walk-arounds We'llcomment.
Sometimes when we watch certainguys.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
That's hilarious.
Okay, what's more important?
Flight manual or a perfectleather jacket Flight manual
Killing me?
I don't know, you know, I don'tknow what these answers are,

(56:46):
but if your life had a themesong when you stepped into the
cockpit, what would it be?
Oh, my goodness.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
He just threw that one out there.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
Oh my gosh, I've never even thought of that.
You'd have to give me a coupleminutes to come up with that.
I was right away.
I'm moving on up.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Moving on up Doing the George Jefferson.

Speaker 2 (57:10):
You know how old we are, because we knew exactly
what that was yeah, we, we justlost half our listeners for sure
anyways.

Speaker 1 (57:20):
Hey, we wanted to wrap up with a little bit of a
current events that actuallyties into what we were talking
about, like um.
So there was an airline thatjust happened to have a rabbit
sucked up into the engine ontakeoff.
I mean that's some crazy shit,right there it is.
I mean we hit birds and allkinds of stuff, but I've never
heard of a rabbit.

(57:41):
Have you heard of anything elselike that, a different type of
animal?

Speaker 3 (57:44):
hitting the plane Coyote, coyote, coyote and deer.
You know, I've heard hittingthe engines, wow, and of course
they had the southwest, the guyon the runway, they hit, you
know right remember that.
But uh, yeah, yeah, rabbit,rabbit, they're gonna talk about
this.
One must have been a big rabbit.

Speaker 2 (58:01):
We watch that video.

Speaker 3 (58:01):
They're gonna definitely talk about this one
well, you know where that wasright and uh which one you're?

Speaker 1 (58:07):
talking about the rabbit, the rabbit.
Yeah, yeah, you see, thathappened in denver right the,
the jackrabbits are big yeah,they're big.
They're not.
They're not a lot.
I mean they're.
They can give a goose run like.
I mean they're.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
They can be really big but uh, it always reminds me
of the monty python.
It's just a rabbit, it's just arabbit.

Speaker 1 (58:27):
He ain't no rabbit, no more.

Speaker 2 (58:30):
There he is.
Yeah, there, he was Definitelynot there he goes that mighty
Python.

Speaker 1 (58:35):
That's awesome, that's bad.
So, anyways, I also wanted totalk about like.
So there's an airline out therethat's getting ready right now
change its boarding procedure.
Like in our career, how manytimes, I mean, we get asked this
all the time, like why do youdo this, why do you board like
this?
And we've changed boardingprocedures like it seems like a

(58:56):
hundred times.
How do you feel about that?

Speaker 3 (59:00):
people are going to do what they want to do anyway.
I just uh, I I think it'syou're in trouble if that's like
gonna save you as an airlineright we're gonna.
We're gonna get away what madeus who we are and then change it
to this pre-assigned yeah, youfigure out.

Speaker 1 (59:15):
You figure out this like it's this solution of of
the how you run your business,everything and it's working.
And then all of a sudden youcome along and say, hey, you
know, what let's?

Speaker 3 (59:26):
change this to this today.
Yeah, you would think thatthere were more underlying
problems than that.

Speaker 2 (59:31):
Okay, well, let me just jump in on this for a
second, though.
Even with our airline, if youreally wanted to make a boarding
process work, take a group offlight attendants, take a group
of gate agents, put themtogether for a week, let them
come up with a boarding process,and you go ahead and put it
side-by-side to yours, and Iguarantee it's going to be 10

(59:51):
times better, because they never, ever go to the flight
attendants or the gate agentstogether to come up with a
boarding process.
And you know that All the yearsI've been flying, not one time,
not one time.
And if they did, we would havea boarding process that would
actually really work for theairlines, would work for the
business class people.
But see, the problem is, iswhat you do is that you give it

(01:00:14):
to these little people thatgraduated from college in a
cubicle that have no idea how toboard an airplane, because all
they did is they took a survey,they put it out to people, they
allowed that survey dictate howthe boarding process begins and
how it starts and how it ends,and that's why we have a mess.
They allow that survey dictatehow the boarding process begins
and how it starts and how itends.

Speaker 1 (01:00:29):
Yeah, that's why we have a mess.
But here's the bottom line towhat you're saying is that you
know, these companies are ran bymarketing.
You know, and that's theproblem, it's that these
marketing procedures and stuffcome up with these great ideas
hey, let's do this because we'retrying to sell this product
this way.
And um, they let the customersstart to.

(01:00:51):
I mean, in today's world,they're letting the customer try
to dictate how we're runningour business that's my point.

Speaker 2 (01:00:57):
It's a survey I understand.

Speaker 1 (01:00:58):
So it's like you can't, you can't, let you know.
It's not just um the company,it's, it's this, this theory of
like running your companythrough marketing information,
and that shouldn't be happening,but that's you know so.
So our biggest you know peoplethat buy tickets on our planes,

(01:01:19):
right, are trying to dictate how, how they want the plane
boarded, and which is bullshit,bullshit but hey, listen on a
lighter.

Speaker 2 (01:01:26):
hey, listen on a lighter note plucky song, plucky
plucky got home Sean lucky theparrot just got home.

Speaker 1 (01:01:33):
What was it?
She was in Panama, right, orsomething like that she was?

Speaker 2 (01:01:37):
Yeah, I think so.

Speaker 1 (01:01:38):
Dominican Republic, dominican Republic, yeah, that's
right.

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
But no.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
John didn't know about bus.
So there was this lady.
We could talk about this.
It was.
It's been in the news for a buta lady.
This elderly lady got stuckdown in Dominican Republic and
she flew down with the parrotand when she was getting ready
to board to come back, theydenied her boarding and said she
didn't check the parrot Right.
So she was literally stuck inthat country because they
wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (01:02:09):
but evidently the end of the story is she's finally
got home.
Did they have to put a littlevest on it?
Plucky's back.

Speaker 1 (01:02:12):
Yeah.
Plucky's back in in in the, theuh.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Plucky is back, so we're going to end with our
inspirational quote the best wayto predict the future is to
create it Exactly.

Speaker 1 (01:02:28):
You can't, you can't let life just meet, you can't
let life just guide you.
You've got to go out there andmake it happen.

Speaker 2 (01:02:34):
Make it happen every single day.
Man, we are having a lot of fun.
Had a great time with John thePilot.
See what I love about this?
John the Pilot is going to beour section now because we're
going to invite him back a lotwhen he will get the pilot's
perspective.
He might have had to retire at65, but his ass will be back
here talking about being a pilot.
John the pilot.

Speaker 1 (01:02:55):
Right, alright.
Thanks, john, for being on theshow.
We really appreciate you coming.
Thanks for having me back.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
You guys, like I said , I can't say enough.
I've always.
You two guys are just some ofmy favorite people in the world
People always say to you I justsome of my favorite people in
the world.
Good, we appreciate that.
People always say to you missit and I go.
The only thing I miss is thepeople.

Speaker 2 (01:03:13):
Well, you're not going to miss it anymore,
because we got John the Pilotcoming back John the Pilot,
coming back.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Shout out, chris, maybe we can get him to come
someday Get.

Speaker 2 (01:03:22):
Chris's ass back.
Chris, get your ass in there,lazy ass.
Anyway, all right, guys Listen,it was a great week.
You guys have a great week.
We'll see you next time on CabImpression.

Speaker 1 (01:03:38):
See ya If you laughed , learned something, or just
feel a little bit better aboutyour own job after hearing about
ours, do us a favor Subscribe,leave a review and share this
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You know the one.
Hit us up on Facebook.
Drop your wildest airportstories.
We just might read them on airbonus points.
If you involve questionableclothing decisions, until next

(01:04:00):
time, stay strapped in, stayhydrated and, for the love of
TSA, keep your clothes on in theterminal.