January 1, 2025 • 26 mins
What if the future of tech was reshaped by strategic mergers, AI evolution, and cybersecurity threats? Dive into an engaging conversation where we unpack Broadcom's acquisition of VMware, revealing how customer loyalty defies the odds amid heightened renewal costs. Explore the unexpected maneuvering that has fortified Broadcom's market position and what it means for companies navigating the shift towards cloud-native solutions like Kubernetes. Discover the tightrope walk of modernizing IT infrastructures while grappling with the comfort of VMware's long-standing systems.
Prepare to look ahead as we explore tech forecasts for 2025, informed by insights from Accenture and CIO Dive. With generative AI on the rise, Accenture CEO Julie Sweet provides a window into how companies are squeezing maximum value from smaller deals without loosening their purse strings. We also highlight Google's ambitious 2025 outlook and the promising potential of its large language model, Gemini. Meanwhile, the ongoing breach by the Chinese-backed hacker group Salt Typhoon underscores the crucial need for airtight cybersecurity measures. This episode promises a comprehensive look into the strategic moves, challenges, and innovations shaping the tech landscape.
Pre-Order our Book:
https://www.packtpub.com/en-au/product/aws-certified-advanced-networking-specialty-ans-c01-certification-guide-9781835088098
Purchase Chris and Tim's new book on AWS Cloud Networking: https://www.amazon.com/Certified-Advanced-Networking-Certification-certification/dp/1835080839/
Check out the Fortnightly Cloud Networking News
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1fkBWCGwXDUX9OfZ9_MvSVup8tJJzJeqrauaE6VPT2b0/
Visit our website and subscribe: https://www.cables2clouds.com/
Follow us on BlueSky: https://bsky.app/profile/cables2clouds.com
Follow us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@cables2clouds/
Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@cables2clouds
Merch Store: https://store.cables2clouds.com/
Join the Discord Study group: https://artofneteng.com/iaatj
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Tim (00:01):
Welcome to the Cables to Clouds podcast, your one-stop
shop for all things hybrid andmulti-cloud networking.
Now here are your hosts Tim,chris and A**.
Chris (00:14):
Hello, hello, hello.
We are back again with anotherinstallment of the fortnightly
Cables to Clouds news podcast,where Tim and I take you through
a you know, a handful ofarticles that have come out in
the last two weeks that wethought were relatively
interesting and related to theindustry, et cetera.
Right, so joining me, as I justmentioned, is Tim McConaughey
(00:36):
at Carpe DMVPN on Blue Sky.
Is that right?
Yeah, that's right.
I'm still.
You've had, you've had the samehandle for so long.
Tim (00:43):
I can't believe you switched like you might, yeah,
you know one gold bizcom has tobe out there you know, I'm sure
it's not mine, though if it'sout there it's not mine.
Chris (00:52):
Well, that's what I'm saying.
Just buy it, you should buy it.
Tim (00:55):
You'll find the poor side that has it and buy it from well
, I did that, I so I'm.
Chris (01:00):
I, my name is chris miles at pgp main on blue sky, blue
Sky, so I did buy that, just tokeep consistent.
So we're starting a petitiontoday to get Tim to go out and
spend the $10, or whatever it isto buy JuanGilbezcom.
Tim (01:16):
This is when I find out that it's actually a super
famous name in.
Chris (01:21):
Latin America or something Someone's been doing
squatting on it for like 10years, just waiting for you.
Tim (01:25):
Yeah, or they've got like a really popular website and they
won't part with it for lessthan a million dollars or
something Probably.
Chris (01:33):
That's fine, we'll crowdfund it.
We'll get it to you, man, we'llmake sure you get it All right.
So let's hop into the news forthe last two weeks here.
So we have a few articles tocover today.
First one up is from SDXCentral.
The title of this is BroadcomBounces VMware Operating
Concerns.
So this is an article kind ofdetailing how Broadcom has
(01:56):
navigated the last year or sosince the deal has closed for
them to acquire VMware and Iwill say there's some relatively
surprising points made in herespecifically around them
maintaining VMware customerloyalty.
They are the earnings reportshave come out that they're
(02:19):
looking pretty well.
Broadcom mentioned.
You know there was a 196%increase from what Broadcom
generated in the division ofsoftware infrastructure business
.
But to be fair, they didn'thave anything really compelling
prior to having VMware.
So that makes sense.
But the kind of customerretention was quite surprising
(02:41):
to me, just because we've heardhorror stories over the last,
you know, six to eight monthsabout customers getting the
renewals and then being like 10X more expensive and um.
You know Broadcom is alsocalled a bit of the um, the
portfolio, a bit where it's likedown to like three products
right and there's no mixing andmatching, there's no variation.
It's like you buy one of thethree things and that's what you
(03:03):
get, like there's no, there'sno piecemeal uh operations
anymore.
Um, which you know in my mind,um, I was initially thinking you
know that means like probablyvendors like Nutanix are going
to be able to run away with justyou know business for customers
trying to get off of VMware.
But in here there's also um,some details about um from the
(03:24):
Nutanix CEO, rajiv Ramaswamy Ithink is how you say his name
saying that the market is stillcontinuing to be dynamic and it
sounds like Broadcom is beingrelatively more competitive in
some of these deals, especiallywith the bigger players, which I
(03:44):
thought was quite surprising.
You don't really hear much aboutBroadcom being competitive from
a commercial standpoint andthat they kind of just you know
the market is kind of unchangedfor them.
They still have the same valueproposition, they're still
having the same conversationsand, to be honest, what I pull
from that is I wonder ifcustomers and I've had this
(04:07):
conversation a little bit withclients that I've talked to is I
wonder if there's more of afocus on modernization of the
applications rather thanmigrating the virtualization
stack, and that could besomething like moving to
something more cloud native ormoving to Kubernetes?
Something to answer the answerthat question.
(04:29):
I mean, not everything's goingto fit into something like
Kubernetes or is going to fitinto running it onto on a you
know EC2 instance or somethinglike that.
But that seems to be what I see.
Customers, at least at least atthis point, they're considering
it Right.
I think the VMware piece it's abig comfort piece for a lot of
(04:50):
people.
People want VMware becausethey've worked with it for 10,
15 years.
At this point they know it.
There's plenty of VCDXs outthere that know it like the back
of their hand.
So I mean, that's that seems tobe what I've been seeing in
this article.
This article kind of leads meto believe that that's.
That's what is top of mind fora lot of these organizations.
(05:12):
But I don't know how.
About you, tim?
What's your, what's yourinkling here?
Tim (05:16):
Yeah, I think, for all the the talk that enterprises have
put out about how, like, they'renot going to get taken to the
cleaner, they're going to findanother option.
Um, they're hitting the factthat it's not actually that
simple to it's, I mean and andof course broadcom knows this
that it's not actually thatsimple to migrate away from
vmware.
Uh, you know, if you've builtyour entire infrastructure on
(05:38):
vmware you pretty much andyou're going to migrate away
from it, you have two options,right, you're gonna you're to
disaggregate it and move it tothe cloud in some format, or
you're going to do likemicroservices or like Kubernetes
, like you were mentioning,right, like, take it completely
out of that environment whereit's not virtualized servers
anymore.
But what you're probably notgoing to do, a lot of
(05:58):
enterprises are looking at thisand saying you know, what we're
not going to do is just go likefor like, make a lateral move
with such a huge investmentthat's going to be required to
do that movement, you know.
So I think what we're actuallyseeing is something I didn't
think of when it first started.
I thought the same as you, that, hey, nutanix and Proxmox are
(06:19):
going to be able to eatBroadcom's lunch.
But I don't think it's so muchthat I mean now, of course, the
article has mentioned thatBroadcom is making is being
flexible and competitive fortheir largest customers, but
that's still.
I mean, their largest customersare still probably like five or
six customers, right, like it'snot that many customers,
probably.
So what probably is reallyhappening is that people are
(06:39):
stuck for the moment and they'reeither eating it or, you know,
they're finding a way to getaway from this kind of
virtualized environmentcompletely like accelerating
movement to kubernetes ormicroservices or the cloud or
whatever.
And I think maybe that's why Ithink nutanix and proxmox will
pick up extra people, like Imean, the article actually
mentions that they had like 600and something extra new
(07:02):
customers last year.
Uh, nutanix, which 600 customersit puts you in perspective of?
I don't even know, is that alot?
I don't know, right, like I'mnot sure what that means.
But you know they aredefinitely going to pick up a
lot of the small, the tablescraps, if you will, that
Broadcom doesn't give a shitabout.
But a lot of the big customersthat can afford to do something
(07:22):
else are going to do somethingelse else out.
So, but a lot of the bigcustomers that can afford to do
something else are going to dosomething else else, like
they're going to, like, you know, kubernetes or cloud or
something.
That's not a lateral move.
To spend that much money to goto a lateral move and lock
themselves into another vendorno.
Chris (07:33):
Yeah, I think that's a great point, it's yeah, I think
like I said, it's level ofcomfort right.
I wonder if, just with that, Iwould like to see the numbers on
how many of these customers areprobably renewing at 12-month
deals versus three-year deals.
Tim (07:49):
For sure.
Chris (07:50):
Maybe they're doing renewal just to buy their time
and figure out what to do overthe next 12 months.
They're kind of eat the lossinitially and then maybe do
something later.
So yeah, I'd be curious to seewhat that number is.
Tim (08:03):
Yeah, I'm right with you.
I think that's exactly whatpeople are doing.
Is there probably renewing,unless they 100% know that
Broadcom is cutting them asweetheart deal?
Then maybe they'll take thethree-year sweetheart deal or
something.
Because, hey, why wouldn't youright, if you're getting a
sweetheart deal, why wouldn'tyou take it and give yourself
time?
But, yeah, majority ofcustomers that are not getting
the the sweetheart deal frombroadcom are doing exactly what
(08:24):
you said, just the paying outthe nose, but the bare minimum
that they can get away with,just to to buy themselves time
and and we'll see, maybe a focuson movement this year.
I guess we'll see.
Yep, yeah, probably All right.
So, speaking of that, so I havean article here from CIO Dive,
from built.
(08:44):
Based on some feedback fromAccenture and Accenture, of
course, being one of the largest, you know, it services,
infrastructure, value addedretailers out there.
They've basically made somebased on what their clients are
asking them for in 2025.
They've made some kind ofpredictions about what the tech
landscape and what's going to beimportant to enterprises as we
for in 2025.
They've made some kind ofpredictions about what the tech
landscape and what's going to beimportant to enterprises as we
(09:06):
move into 2025.
What's interesting is I thinkanybody probably could have
expected this.
So we've been in pretty direstraits here for about a year
and a half.
Right, the economy andeverything, at least in the US,
worldwide, really, a lot ofenterprises have basically had
no money to spend, but at thesame time, we have generative AI
(09:28):
and all this new you know techand plus, of course, tech debt.
You know all that tech debtjust carried over while nobody
was spending money, and so nowenterprises are faced with this
kind of, you know, silly andcharybdis thing of, hey, we
don't want to spend money, but,like, we have to modernize our
infrastructure to keep ourbusiness relevant.
So, what Accenture?
(09:49):
What this article is basicallysaying is that Accenture is
being tasked by most of theirclients with, like, hey, you
know, we need you to help ussave money, but at the same time
, we need you to help usmodernize for, you know,
generative AI or whatever themodern, whatever to help us
modernize for generative AI orwhatever the modern broadly the
quote-unquote modernizationumbrella.
And so they think that 2025 isgoing to be all about this kind
(10:11):
of incremental modernizationeffort, this very tight, very,
very controlled modernization.
You won't have the pocketbookopen, but there will be money
being spent.
It's been too long sinceanybody spent, you know, since
companies are spending money ontheir IT and they're going to
have to just to keep up with thepace of technology and what's
out there and what theircompetitors are doing.
So I'm curious to see thatbeing the case.
(10:34):
Are you I mean you talk to morecustomers than I do, are you?
Are you seeing this out?
Chris (10:38):
there.
Yeah, it's like this is a.
We were talking about thisbefore we hit record today, but
I think this is kind of like atrickle down thing, like, uh,
like this is, you're only goingto re-architect infrastructure
for AI if your developmentalforce or your, your, your, your
primary income revenue source isis switching to an AI kind of
(10:59):
uh workflow in some capacity,whether that's modernizing your
apps, whether that's changinghow your company operates, what
have you?
So I'm starting to see some ofit Like people.
I feel like a lot of theinfrastructure.
People are kind of like oh,we're doing this thing, so I
have to do this.
There's there's not so muchthey're not, they're not
completely tapped into thebusiness side as to what the
motivators are.
(11:20):
So, but I mean, I definitely amseeing some of this, so it
makes sense.
One thing I thought wasinteresting in like in this
article, one of the commentsfrom the CEO, julie Sweet, was
that our clients are focused onreinvention, which means large
scale transformation.
We do not currently see animprovement in overall spending
(11:41):
by our clients, specifically orparticularly on smaller deals.
So what?
I'm not sure exactly what shemeans by that.
Does that mean that there'sstill an improvement on overall
spending.
So I mean, like the spending isstill going to be just as high
and it's going to be a lot moresmaller, smaller deals.
For that I was, I didn't reallyget that.
Tim (12:00):
Yeah, yeah.
I think that what they'resaying is basically, or what
this particular quote means, isthat they're trying to do more
with less, like you know,meaning spending money, yes, but
spending money specifically totry to, you know, get more out
of it.
I see, okay, yeah, yeah.
Chris (12:22):
Yeah, major extraction, um from every deal, I guess is
what they want.
But yeah, yeah, I mean it makessense.
Like I said, I'm definitelyseeing some of the uh the
movement in this space as well.
Surprisingly, apparently, aiadoption in australia is is
quite high, um, or uh, one ofthe one of the leaders.
I don't know australia, likeloves being like, oh, we're, you
know, we're one of the biggestin of the leaders.
I don't know Australia, likeloves being like, oh, we're, you
(12:44):
know, we're one of the biggestin this.
Uh, you want, you always takeit with a grain of salt, like I
wonder what?
I had a grand scale, how, uh,how uh, true it actually is.
But uh, supposedly we are, um,we are kind of leading the
charge in in that way, um, withwith a few other players, but,
yeah, yeah, definitely, seeingthem my day to day, all right,
Um.
So next up, um is an articlefrom tech crunch.
(13:07):
So, uh, google CEO SundarPichai how do you say his last
name?
Yeah, I think I think that'sright.
Actually, let me start over.
I don't want to, I don't wantto mispronounce the Google CEO's
name Pichai, something likethat.
Yeah, okay.
So next up, we have an articlefrom TechCrunch with Google CEO
(13:29):
Sundar Pichai saying that it hasbeen basically told to the
employees of Google that 2025will be a critical year for the
company, and the biggest focusbeing Gemini, which is, as we
all know, this is their primarylarge language model in the AI
(13:52):
space, which I don't know whereit ranks in the hierarchy of
adoption, but I imagine it'sprobably similar to the way that
Google Cloud is favoring inadoption, where it's probably
similar to the way that GoogleCloud is favoring an adoption
where it's probably in, you know, top five, but definitely not
number one, not number two typething.
So, like I said, I mean thisrelatively short article just
(14:14):
kind of mentioning the focus onGemini and making it more
available to consumers in somecapacity which, like I'll be
honest with you, I don't thinkI've ever used Gemini.
Oh no, we did, we did useGemini, it's, but that it was
like relatively forgetful, uhlike uh.
I, I, I don't, um, or sorry, Ishould say, relatively
(14:35):
forgettable Um, I don't quiteuse remember using it much at
all, but um, yeah, I mean, youknow.
He says it's a critical yearfor the company.
It feels like every, everythat's every year so it's.
I don't.
I don't know if this how thiswill actually play out.
Who knows, maybe they'll killit in 2025.
I could definitely see thathappening, but yeah, I don't
know.
What do you think too?
Tim (14:56):
Yeah.
So what I think is interestingis that in this article, he
specifically mentioning that wewill make Gemini more available
to consumers.
And I'm thinking to myself wasit not available to consumers?
Like, was there?
Were they hiding it all behindthe curtain in 2024 and just
nobody noticed because theyweren't using it?
Like you know, I don't know Imean.
Chris (15:16):
I assume that means integration with products.
Tim (15:19):
Yeah, I assume.
Yeah, Maybe they're well, butthey're not like.
I don't feel like Google islike the products, like you know
, like not like AWS, where theyjust have like a thousand
freaking services and then theycross, pollinate all their stuff
together, right.
I don't feel like Google reallydoes that.
So I'm curious what they meanby making it available to
consumers.
Chris (15:37):
I would think, yeah, consumers, I don't see those
things.
I don't know how much thatoverlaps with like G Suite and
things like that yeah, maybe.
I mean obviously integratingGemini in Gmail, seems like a
doable thing yeah.
I'm a big Gmail user.
I never log into the webinterface, so I don't know if
there's already Geminiintegration there today.
Tim (15:58):
I have no idea.
Chris (16:00):
We should probably have a look after we get done
recording.
But like yeah, I don today, Ihave no idea.
Um, we should probably have alook after we get done recording
.
But yeah, like, yeah, I don'tknow.
I mean yeah, but also I don'tuse g suite, so I mean, but like
, like we were talking aboutthis earlier like they're kind
of at the same level as meta,like they have so much fucking
data about people.
Tim (16:13):
Yeah, like they should?
This seems like it should beeasy, um, but it's not, and
maybe it's the the type of datathey have that isn't useful for
what they're trying to monetize.
Like large language model,right, like it's you know all
this data about people, theirspending habits, like that's all
geared towards ad, and maybethis is it.
(16:33):
Like meta and Google have thekind of data that you want if
you're going to serve ads tosomeone, right, but how useful
is that as a large languagemodel?
Chris (16:42):
Like I don't know, right, like I mean I'm gonna start
going to to chat gpt and sayshow me the best ad exactly you
know everything about me.
Tim (16:51):
Tell me, tell me something I want to buy, right, yeah, but
yeah, that's that's.
I think I wonder if it's thatreally, at the end of the day,
that like because it can't bemoney.
We're talking about Google andMeta right, it can't be money,
it's got to be the type of datathat they have on hand to train
with.
It must be just different, butI don't know.
(17:13):
So interesting article, prettyshort, like you said.
I am curious, very, verycurious, what Google means by
focusing on Gemini, like if theyjust mean improving the quality
, cool.
I mean, if you throw enoughmoney at a large language model,
it'll always get better, I'msure.
So I guess we'll see.
Yeah, we shall see.
Okay.
(17:34):
The last one we have is fromReuters.
This is a kind of a follow-upto something that broke all the
way back in, I think, october,and it's been kind of just new
details that has been coming outabout it steadily since ninth
(17:59):
unnamed telecom provider to thelist of providers that were
hacked by the Chinese-backedSalt Typhoon hacker group.
I guess what do they call them?
State-sponsored hacking?
Is this a name that they usefor cyber espionage group or
whatever?
So this is interesting becausethat's nine telecoms in the US,
including the major ones.
Verizon was, I think, who theyoriginally broke.
(18:20):
The story originally broke backin October talking about
Verizon, and then AT&T was veryquickly added.
This is also why the FBI cameout and said start using
end-to-end encryption formessaging applications.
I just read an article yesterdayor the day before about how
iPhone users and iPhone andAndroid users shouldn't send
(18:43):
text messages to each otherbecause it's unencrypted.
It's encrypted on their network, but like when you switch,
basically.
So this is kind of the wholepoint of of Salt Typhoon is that
by gaining access to thetelecom networks, they
essentially become a giant manin the middle.
Right, telecoms are a man inthe middle.
That's what they are, right.
So, you know, a hacker groupthat has access to it has access
(19:04):
to essentially anything on thewire.
You know, this article mentions, for example, that they could,
you know, do text messages andrecord phone calls and do
geolocation on all the users ofthe telecom.
Pretty scary stuff all byitself.
But again, these are like levelone networks, tier one
providers, so everybody goesthrough them.
(19:25):
There's no, it's like think ofthe US as a giant switch or
something.
This would be the core switch.
The telecom providers are likecore switches.
Yeah right, so everything goesthrough there.
And the whole end-to-endencryption thing is the story.
Like you know, with end-to-endencryption, whether it be
network layer or applicationlayer, whatever it is, that is
(19:48):
proof against this type ofattack, because a
man-in-the-middle attack can't,you know, do much against full
end-to-end encryption.
Right, there's no wire to tapthat you're going to get
unencrypted data.
So that's why they suggestedencrypting all your data.
That's why technologies likeMACSEC are being called into
(20:10):
question for beingpoint-to-point encryption rather
than full end-to-end encryption.
Things like that, like allsorts of encryption technologies
have have proven less thaneffective against this type of
attack, because it's a man inthe middle attack.
So, yeah, anything, I meanyou've, you've looked at the
article.
Anything that extra to addthere?
Chris (20:31):
Yeah, it's.
I think the reason, like yousaid, this is something that
broke back in like October orsomething there.
I think the reason we'recovering it now is, like, I'll
be honest, Like I remember, whenthis came out back in October,
um, there was still a largedelay in actually getting any
concrete information about it.
Um, like, when I heard the backthis back in October, like oh,
(20:51):
like, uh, this, you know this,this espionage um company from
China has broken MACSEC and Iwas like MACSEC is a relatively
modern technology.
I'd be surprised if they brokethe algorithms and all that and
did whatever that is.
I think it just kind of leadsto the drawback of MACSEC.
(21:12):
Macsec is a secure protocol butit is hop-by-hop encryption,
Like MaxSec is a secure protocolbut it is hop-by-hop encryption
.
So encryption and decryptionhappens at layer two on every
hop along the path, right.
So if the thing in the middlegets compromised or anything
along the path gets compromised,you have access to it because
(21:32):
that is the device that is doingthe encryption and decryption
across each hop, right.
So it's essentially a man inthe middle, without having to
actually inject yourself intothe middle.
You just gain control there.
So, yeah, like you said, theseare all Tier 1 telecoms that
were falling victim to this andthere's nine total that have
(21:55):
been named and the top ones areVerizon, at, at&t, lumen, lumen
is is that the century link?
level three one oh oh, did theybuy level three.
Tim (22:04):
Yeah, maybe they changed their name.
What ages ago.
I know it used to be centrally,but yeah.
Chris (22:09):
So I mean it's.
Yeah, I mean like, like yousaid, this just kind of speaks
to the drawback of, of max sec,which we, we have this
conversation a lot in ourday-to-day because we, you know,
we work on a, a platform thatthat uses ipsec encryption over
the top for for just the, theproblems that this introduces.
So, um, yeah, I mean it's it'sdisappointing, but you know, um,
(22:31):
that's, that's the, that's thedrawback with hop by hop
encryption like there's uh, Idon't know the way to spin it.
That's just what it is.
Tim (22:38):
I mean and again to be clear like if you're using
application layer encryption,macsec isn't doing anything, our
IPSEC isn't doing like nothing.
You know, application layerencryption is application layer
encryption, right?
It's app layer, meaning that'sfully end-to-end as well.
It's encrypted at the app onthe one side and decrypted on
the other side.
So it's not like MacSec orIPsec or any of these are
(23:00):
specifically good, bad or ugly.
It just depends on the type ofattack, which, again, the Salt
Typhoon being one of the men inthe middle.
But again, all apps aren'tencrypted.
And even look at TLS.
Tls just got updated because,you know, the encryption was
getting aged there.
(23:20):
So yeah, man, it's a cat andmouse game and it probably
always will be.
Chris (23:26):
I mean I'm not going to sit here and say you should
encrypt just for the sake ofdoing encryption, like doing it
at L7, l3, l2.
Like do I'm not saying do allof them?
I'm not saying do all of them,but I mean having multiple
locked doors on your data.
I feel like that is a netpositive thing as long as it
doesn't introduce too muchcomplexity, Too much complexity
(23:46):
yeah.
But yeah, I mean, if you'rerelying on one layer of
encryption and it's at a certainpiece of the stack, you've got
to consider that that could bebroken.
Tim (23:57):
I think in the long term Well, right, and again, it's not
that MACSEC was broken or IPSECor any of those.
It's literally, in the case ofspecifically MACSEC, in this
type of attack, like you said,the device that is owned is the
same device that's doing thedecryption and the encryption.
Chris (24:14):
This is a functional drawback of MACSEC.
That's just how it is.
It's not like it was, you know,unsecure or anything.
It was the thing doing.
The MacSec was unsecure.
Tim (24:24):
Yep, yep, and not much you could do about that.
Besides, of course you know,keep your, rotate your passwords
and do all the fun stuff tokeep your stuff safe.
Chris (24:32):
Anyway, maybe all the passwords were Cisco123.
Tim (24:35):
Yeah, that's all they got in.
Chris (24:37):
Yeah, All right, and with that I think we'll go ahead and
wrap up for this week.
So thanks again.
Remember we put all thesearticles into the show notes, so
if you want to have a look atany of these and there's a few
that we always throw in therethat don't always get talked
about on the show, so if youwant to have a look at those,
Please check out the news docthat's in the show notes.
(24:57):
Once again, I'll plug thisagain.
Tim and I have an AWS CertifiedAdvanced Networking Specialty
Exam Certification Guide fromPACT.
That's such a mouthful man.
Tim (25:09):
Yeah, it's like ANSC01.
Nobody will know what it means.
Chris (25:16):
ANSC01, test from AWS.
We are releasing a book withPACT on that particular exam.
It's up for pre-order now.
We will also put that in theshow notes.
It's between us and our goodfriend Steve McNutt.
Friend of the show.
Guest of the show.
So please check it out.
And with that I will let you goand we'll see you next week.
(25:36):
Take care, bye.
Tim (25:40):
Hi everyone.
It's Tim and this has been theCables to Clouds podcast.
Thanks for tuning in today.
If you enjoyed our show, pleasesubscribe to us in your
favorite podcast catcher, aswell as subscribe and turn on
notifications for our YouTubechannel to be notified of all
our new episodes.
Follow us on socials atCables2Clouds.
You can also visit our websitefor all the show notes at
(26:02):
Cables2Cloudscom.
Thanks again for listening andsee you next time.
Welcome to the Cables to Clouds podcast, your one-stop
shop for all things hybrid andmulti-cloud networking.
Now here are your hosts Tim,chris and A**.
Chris (00:14):
Hello, hello, hello.
We are back again with anotherinstallment of the fortnightly
Cables to Clouds news podcast,where Tim and I take you through
a you know, a handful ofarticles that have come out in
the last two weeks that wethought were relatively
interesting and related to theindustry, et cetera.
Right, so joining me, as I justmentioned, is Tim McConaughey
(00:36):
at Carpe DMVPN on Blue Sky.
Is that right?
Yeah, that's right.
I'm still.
You've had, you've had the samehandle for so long.
Tim (00:43):
I can't believe you switched like you might, yeah,
you know one gold bizcom has tobe out there you know, I'm sure
it's not mine, though if it'sout there it's not mine.
Chris (00:52):
Well, that's what I'm saying.
Just buy it, you should buy it.
Tim (00:55):
You'll find the poor side that has it and buy it from well
, I did that, I so I'm.
Chris (01:00):
I, my name is chris miles at pgp main on blue sky, blue
Sky, so I did buy that, just tokeep consistent.
So we're starting a petitiontoday to get Tim to go out and
spend the $10, or whatever it isto buy JuanGilbezcom.
Tim (01:16):
This is when I find out that it's actually a super
famous name in.
Chris (01:21):
Latin America or something Someone's been doing
squatting on it for like 10years, just waiting for you.
Tim (01:25):
Yeah, or they've got like a really popular website and they
won't part with it for lessthan a million dollars or
something Probably.
Chris (01:33):
That's fine, we'll crowdfund it.
We'll get it to you, man, we'llmake sure you get it All right.
So let's hop into the news forthe last two weeks here.
So we have a few articles tocover today.
First one up is from SDXCentral.
The title of this is BroadcomBounces VMware Operating
Concerns.
So this is an article kind ofdetailing how Broadcom has
(01:56):
navigated the last year or sosince the deal has closed for
them to acquire VMware and Iwill say there's some relatively
surprising points made in herespecifically around them
maintaining VMware customerloyalty.
They are the earnings reportshave come out that they're
(02:19):
looking pretty well.
Broadcom mentioned.
You know there was a 196%increase from what Broadcom
generated in the division ofsoftware infrastructure business
.
But to be fair, they didn'thave anything really compelling
prior to having VMware.
So that makes sense.
But the kind of customerretention was quite surprising
(02:41):
to me, just because we've heardhorror stories over the last,
you know, six to eight monthsabout customers getting the
renewals and then being like 10X more expensive and um.
You know Broadcom is alsocalled a bit of the um, the
portfolio, a bit where it's likedown to like three products
right and there's no mixing andmatching, there's no variation.
It's like you buy one of thethree things and that's what you
(03:03):
get, like there's no, there'sno piecemeal uh operations
anymore.
Um, which you know in my mind,um, I was initially thinking you
know that means like probablyvendors like Nutanix are going
to be able to run away with justyou know business for customers
trying to get off of VMware.
But in here there's also um,some details about um from the
(03:24):
Nutanix CEO, rajiv Ramaswamy Ithink is how you say his name
saying that the market is stillcontinuing to be dynamic and it
sounds like Broadcom is beingrelatively more competitive in
some of these deals, especiallywith the bigger players, which I
(03:44):
thought was quite surprising.
You don't really hear much aboutBroadcom being competitive from
a commercial standpoint andthat they kind of just you know
the market is kind of unchangedfor them.
They still have the same valueproposition, they're still
having the same conversationsand, to be honest, what I pull
from that is I wonder ifcustomers and I've had this
(04:07):
conversation a little bit withclients that I've talked to is I
wonder if there's more of afocus on modernization of the
applications rather thanmigrating the virtualization
stack, and that could besomething like moving to
something more cloud native ormoving to Kubernetes?
Something to answer the answerthat question.
(04:29):
I mean, not everything's goingto fit into something like
Kubernetes or is going to fitinto running it onto on a you
know EC2 instance or somethinglike that.
But that seems to be what I see.
Customers, at least at least atthis point, they're considering
it Right.
I think the VMware piece it's abig comfort piece for a lot of
(04:50):
people.
People want VMware becausethey've worked with it for 10,
15 years.
At this point they know it.
There's plenty of VCDXs outthere that know it like the back
of their hand.
So I mean, that's that seems tobe what I've been seeing in
this article.
This article kind of leads meto believe that that's.
That's what is top of mind fora lot of these organizations.
(05:12):
But I don't know how.
About you, tim?
What's your, what's yourinkling here?
Tim (05:16):
Yeah, I think, for all the the talk that enterprises have
put out about how, like, they'renot going to get taken to the
cleaner, they're going to findanother option.
Um, they're hitting the factthat it's not actually that
simple to it's, I mean and andof course broadcom knows this
that it's not actually thatsimple to migrate away from
vmware.
Uh, you know, if you've builtyour entire infrastructure on
(05:38):
vmware you pretty much andyou're going to migrate away
from it, you have two options,right, you're gonna you're to
disaggregate it and move it tothe cloud in some format, or
you're going to do likemicroservices or like Kubernetes
, like you were mentioning,right, like, take it completely
out of that environment whereit's not virtualized servers
anymore.
But what you're probably notgoing to do, a lot of
(05:58):
enterprises are looking at thisand saying you know, what we're
not going to do is just go likefor like, make a lateral move
with such a huge investmentthat's going to be required to
do that movement, you know.
So I think what we're actuallyseeing is something I didn't
think of when it first started.
I thought the same as you, that, hey, nutanix and Proxmox are
(06:19):
going to be able to eatBroadcom's lunch.
But I don't think it's so muchthat I mean now, of course, the
article has mentioned thatBroadcom is making is being
flexible and competitive fortheir largest customers, but
that's still.
I mean, their largest customersare still probably like five or
six customers, right, like it'snot that many customers,
probably.
So what probably is reallyhappening is that people are
(06:39):
stuck for the moment and they'reeither eating it or, you know,
they're finding a way to getaway from this kind of
virtualized environmentcompletely like accelerating
movement to kubernetes ormicroservices or the cloud or
whatever.
And I think maybe that's why Ithink nutanix and proxmox will
pick up extra people, like Imean, the article actually
mentions that they had like 600and something extra new
(07:02):
customers last year.
Uh, nutanix, which 600 customersit puts you in perspective of?
I don't even know, is that alot?
I don't know, right, like I'mnot sure what that means.
But you know they aredefinitely going to pick up a
lot of the small, the tablescraps, if you will, that
Broadcom doesn't give a shitabout.
But a lot of the big customersthat can afford to do something
(07:22):
else are going to do somethingelse else out.
So, but a lot of the bigcustomers that can afford to do
something else are going to dosomething else else, like
they're going to, like, you know, kubernetes or cloud or
something.
That's not a lateral move.
To spend that much money to goto a lateral move and lock
themselves into another vendorno.
Chris (07:33):
Yeah, I think that's a great point, it's yeah, I think
like I said, it's level ofcomfort right.
I wonder if, just with that, Iwould like to see the numbers on
how many of these customers areprobably renewing at 12-month
deals versus three-year deals.
Tim (07:49):
For sure.
Chris (07:50):
Maybe they're doing renewal just to buy their time
and figure out what to do overthe next 12 months.
They're kind of eat the lossinitially and then maybe do
something later.
So yeah, I'd be curious to seewhat that number is.
Tim (08:03):
Yeah, I'm right with you.
I think that's exactly whatpeople are doing.
Is there probably renewing,unless they 100% know that
Broadcom is cutting them asweetheart deal?
Then maybe they'll take thethree-year sweetheart deal or
something.
Because, hey, why wouldn't youright, if you're getting a
sweetheart deal, why wouldn'tyou take it and give yourself
time?
But, yeah, majority ofcustomers that are not getting
the the sweetheart deal frombroadcom are doing exactly what
(08:24):
you said, just the paying outthe nose, but the bare minimum
that they can get away with,just to to buy themselves time
and and we'll see, maybe a focuson movement this year.
I guess we'll see.
Yep, yeah, probably All right.
So, speaking of that, so I havean article here from CIO Dive,
from built.
(08:44):
Based on some feedback fromAccenture and Accenture, of
course, being one of the largest, you know, it services,
infrastructure, value addedretailers out there.
They've basically made somebased on what their clients are
asking them for in 2025.
They've made some kind ofpredictions about what the tech
landscape and what's going to beimportant to enterprises as we
for in 2025.
They've made some kind ofpredictions about what the tech
landscape and what's going to beimportant to enterprises as we
(09:06):
move into 2025.
What's interesting is I thinkanybody probably could have
expected this.
So we've been in pretty direstraits here for about a year
and a half.
Right, the economy andeverything, at least in the US,
worldwide, really, a lot ofenterprises have basically had
no money to spend, but at thesame time, we have generative AI
(09:28):
and all this new you know techand plus, of course, tech debt.
You know all that tech debtjust carried over while nobody
was spending money, and so nowenterprises are faced with this
kind of, you know, silly andcharybdis thing of, hey, we
don't want to spend money, but,like, we have to modernize our
infrastructure to keep ourbusiness relevant.
So, what Accenture?
(09:49):
What this article is basicallysaying is that Accenture is
being tasked by most of theirclients with, like, hey, you
know, we need you to help ussave money, but at the same time
, we need you to help usmodernize for, you know,
generative AI or whatever themodern, whatever to help us
modernize for generative AI orwhatever the modern broadly the
quote-unquote modernizationumbrella.
And so they think that 2025 isgoing to be all about this kind
(10:11):
of incremental modernizationeffort, this very tight, very,
very controlled modernization.
You won't have the pocketbookopen, but there will be money
being spent.
It's been too long sinceanybody spent, you know, since
companies are spending money ontheir IT and they're going to
have to just to keep up with thepace of technology and what's
out there and what theircompetitors are doing.
So I'm curious to see thatbeing the case.
(10:34):
Are you I mean you talk to morecustomers than I do, are you?
Are you seeing this out?
Chris (10:38):
there.
Yeah, it's like this is a.
We were talking about thisbefore we hit record today, but
I think this is kind of like atrickle down thing, like, uh,
like this is, you're only goingto re-architect infrastructure
for AI if your developmentalforce or your, your, your, your
primary income revenue source isis switching to an AI kind of
(10:59):
uh workflow in some capacity,whether that's modernizing your
apps, whether that's changinghow your company operates, what
have you?
So I'm starting to see some ofit Like people.
I feel like a lot of theinfrastructure.
People are kind of like oh,we're doing this thing, so I
have to do this.
There's there's not so muchthey're not, they're not
completely tapped into thebusiness side as to what the
motivators are.
(11:20):
So, but I mean, I definitely amseeing some of this, so it
makes sense.
One thing I thought wasinteresting in like in this
article, one of the commentsfrom the CEO, julie Sweet, was
that our clients are focused onreinvention, which means large
scale transformation.
We do not currently see animprovement in overall spending
(11:41):
by our clients, specifically orparticularly on smaller deals.
So what?
I'm not sure exactly what shemeans by that.
Does that mean that there'sstill an improvement on overall
spending.
So I mean, like the spending isstill going to be just as high
and it's going to be a lot moresmaller, smaller deals.
For that I was, I didn't reallyget that.
Tim (12:00):
Yeah, yeah.
I think that what they'resaying is basically, or what
this particular quote means, isthat they're trying to do more
with less, like you know,meaning spending money, yes, but
spending money specifically totry to, you know, get more out
of it.
I see, okay, yeah, yeah.
Chris (12:22):
Yeah, major extraction, um from every deal, I guess is
what they want.
But yeah, yeah, I mean it makessense.
Like I said, I'm definitelyseeing some of the uh the
movement in this space as well.
Surprisingly, apparently, aiadoption in australia is is
quite high, um, or uh, one ofthe one of the leaders.
I don't know australia, likeloves being like, oh, we're, you
know, we're one of the biggestin of the leaders.
I don't know Australia, likeloves being like, oh, we're, you
(12:44):
know, we're one of the biggestin this.
Uh, you want, you always takeit with a grain of salt, like I
wonder what?
I had a grand scale, how, uh,how uh, true it actually is.
But uh, supposedly we are, um,we are kind of leading the
charge in in that way, um, withwith a few other players, but,
yeah, yeah, definitely, seeingthem my day to day, all right,
Um.
So next up, um is an articlefrom tech crunch.
(13:07):
So, uh, google CEO SundarPichai how do you say his last
name?
Yeah, I think I think that'sright.
Actually, let me start over.
I don't want to, I don't wantto mispronounce the Google CEO's
name Pichai, something likethat.
Yeah, okay.
So next up, we have an articlefrom TechCrunch with Google CEO
(13:29):
Sundar Pichai saying that it hasbeen basically told to the
employees of Google that 2025will be a critical year for the
company, and the biggest focusbeing Gemini, which is, as we
all know, this is their primarylarge language model in the AI
(13:52):
space, which I don't know whereit ranks in the hierarchy of
adoption, but I imagine it'sprobably similar to the way that
Google Cloud is favoring inadoption, where it's probably
similar to the way that GoogleCloud is favoring an adoption
where it's probably in, you know, top five, but definitely not
number one, not number two typething.
So, like I said, I mean thisrelatively short article just
(14:14):
kind of mentioning the focus onGemini and making it more
available to consumers in somecapacity which, like I'll be
honest with you, I don't thinkI've ever used Gemini.
Oh no, we did, we did useGemini, it's, but that it was
like relatively forgetful, uhlike uh.
I, I, I don't, um, or sorry, Ishould say, relatively
(14:35):
forgettable Um, I don't quiteuse remember using it much at
all, but um, yeah, I mean, youknow.
He says it's a critical yearfor the company.
It feels like every, everythat's every year so it's.
I don't.
I don't know if this how thiswill actually play out.
Who knows, maybe they'll killit in 2025.
I could definitely see thathappening, but yeah, I don't
know.
What do you think too?
Tim (14:56):
Yeah.
So what I think is interestingis that in this article, he
specifically mentioning that wewill make Gemini more available
to consumers.
And I'm thinking to myself wasit not available to consumers?
Like, was there?
Were they hiding it all behindthe curtain in 2024 and just
nobody noticed because theyweren't using it?
Like you know, I don't know Imean.
Chris (15:16):
I assume that means integration with products.
Tim (15:19):
Yeah, I assume.
Yeah, Maybe they're well, butthey're not like.
I don't feel like Google islike the products, like you know
, like not like AWS, where theyjust have like a thousand
freaking services and then theycross, pollinate all their stuff
together, right.
I don't feel like Google reallydoes that.
So I'm curious what they meanby making it available to
consumers.
Chris (15:37):
I would think, yeah, consumers, I don't see those
things.
I don't know how much thatoverlaps with like G Suite and
things like that yeah, maybe.
I mean obviously integratingGemini in Gmail, seems like a
doable thing yeah.
I'm a big Gmail user.
I never log into the webinterface, so I don't know if
there's already Geminiintegration there today.
Tim (15:58):
I have no idea.
Chris (16:00):
We should probably have a look after we get done
recording.
But like yeah, I don today, Ihave no idea.
Um, we should probably have alook after we get done recording
.
But yeah, like, yeah, I don'tknow.
I mean yeah, but also I don'tuse g suite, so I mean, but like
, like we were talking aboutthis earlier like they're kind
of at the same level as meta,like they have so much fucking
data about people.
Tim (16:13):
Yeah, like they should?
This seems like it should beeasy, um, but it's not, and
maybe it's the the type of datathey have that isn't useful for
what they're trying to monetize.
Like large language model,right, like it's you know all
this data about people, theirspending habits, like that's all
geared towards ad, and maybethis is it.
(16:33):
Like meta and Google have thekind of data that you want if
you're going to serve ads tosomeone, right, but how useful
is that as a large languagemodel?
Chris (16:42):
Like I don't know, right, like I mean I'm gonna start
going to to chat gpt and sayshow me the best ad exactly you
know everything about me.
Tim (16:51):
Tell me, tell me something I want to buy, right, yeah, but
yeah, that's that's.
I think I wonder if it's thatreally, at the end of the day,
that like because it can't bemoney.
We're talking about Google andMeta right, it can't be money,
it's got to be the type of datathat they have on hand to train
with.
It must be just different, butI don't know.
(17:13):
So interesting article, prettyshort, like you said.
I am curious, very, verycurious, what Google means by
focusing on Gemini, like if theyjust mean improving the quality
, cool.
I mean, if you throw enoughmoney at a large language model,
it'll always get better, I'msure.
So I guess we'll see.
Yeah, we shall see.
Okay.
(17:34):
The last one we have is fromReuters.
This is a kind of a follow-upto something that broke all the
way back in, I think, october,and it's been kind of just new
details that has been coming outabout it steadily since ninth
(17:59):
unnamed telecom provider to thelist of providers that were
hacked by the Chinese-backedSalt Typhoon hacker group.
I guess what do they call them?
State-sponsored hacking?
Is this a name that they usefor cyber espionage group or
whatever?
So this is interesting becausethat's nine telecoms in the US,
including the major ones.
Verizon was, I think, who theyoriginally broke.
(18:20):
The story originally broke backin October talking about
Verizon, and then AT&T was veryquickly added.
This is also why the FBI cameout and said start using
end-to-end encryption formessaging applications.
I just read an article yesterdayor the day before about how
iPhone users and iPhone andAndroid users shouldn't send
(18:43):
text messages to each otherbecause it's unencrypted.
It's encrypted on their network, but like when you switch,
basically.
So this is kind of the wholepoint of of Salt Typhoon is that
by gaining access to thetelecom networks, they
essentially become a giant manin the middle.
Right, telecoms are a man inthe middle.
That's what they are, right.
So, you know, a hacker groupthat has access to it has access
(19:04):
to essentially anything on thewire.
You know, this article mentions, for example, that they could,
you know, do text messages andrecord phone calls and do
geolocation on all the users ofthe telecom.
Pretty scary stuff all byitself.
But again, these are like levelone networks, tier one
providers, so everybody goesthrough them.
(19:25):
There's no, it's like think ofthe US as a giant switch or
something.
This would be the core switch.
The telecom providers are likecore switches.
Yeah right, so everything goesthrough there.
And the whole end-to-endencryption thing is the story.
Like you know, with end-to-endencryption, whether it be
network layer or applicationlayer, whatever it is, that is
(19:48):
proof against this type ofattack, because a
man-in-the-middle attack can't,you know, do much against full
end-to-end encryption.
Right, there's no wire to tapthat you're going to get
unencrypted data.
So that's why they suggestedencrypting all your data.
That's why technologies likeMACSEC are being called into
(20:10):
question for beingpoint-to-point encryption rather
than full end-to-end encryption.
Things like that, like allsorts of encryption technologies
have have proven less thaneffective against this type of
attack, because it's a man inthe middle attack.
So, yeah, anything, I meanyou've, you've looked at the
article.
Anything that extra to addthere?
Chris (20:31):
Yeah, it's.
I think the reason, like yousaid, this is something that
broke back in like October orsomething there.
I think the reason we'recovering it now is, like, I'll
be honest, Like I remember, whenthis came out back in October,
um, there was still a largedelay in actually getting any
concrete information about it.
Um, like, when I heard the backthis back in October, like oh,
(20:51):
like, uh, this, you know this,this espionage um company from
China has broken MACSEC and Iwas like MACSEC is a relatively
modern technology.
I'd be surprised if they brokethe algorithms and all that and
did whatever that is.
I think it just kind of leadsto the drawback of MACSEC.
(21:12):
Macsec is a secure protocol butit is hop-by-hop encryption,
Like MaxSec is a secure protocolbut it is hop-by-hop encryption
.
So encryption and decryptionhappens at layer two on every
hop along the path, right.
So if the thing in the middlegets compromised or anything
along the path gets compromised,you have access to it because
(21:32):
that is the device that is doingthe encryption and decryption
across each hop, right.
So it's essentially a man inthe middle, without having to
actually inject yourself intothe middle.
You just gain control there.
So, yeah, like you said, theseare all Tier 1 telecoms that
were falling victim to this andthere's nine total that have
(21:55):
been named and the top ones areVerizon, at, at&t, lumen, lumen
is is that the century link?
level three one oh oh, did theybuy level three.
Tim (22:04):
Yeah, maybe they changed their name.
What ages ago.
I know it used to be centrally,but yeah.
Chris (22:09):
So I mean it's.
Yeah, I mean like, like yousaid, this just kind of speaks
to the drawback of, of max sec,which we, we have this
conversation a lot in ourday-to-day because we, you know,
we work on a, a platform thatthat uses ipsec encryption over
the top for for just the, theproblems that this introduces.
So, um, yeah, I mean it's it'sdisappointing, but you know, um,
(22:31):
that's, that's the, that's thedrawback with hop by hop
encryption like there's uh, Idon't know the way to spin it.
That's just what it is.
Tim (22:38):
I mean and again to be clear like if you're using
application layer encryption,macsec isn't doing anything, our
IPSEC isn't doing like nothing.
You know, application layerencryption is application layer
encryption, right?
It's app layer, meaning that'sfully end-to-end as well.
It's encrypted at the app onthe one side and decrypted on
the other side.
So it's not like MacSec orIPsec or any of these are
(23:00):
specifically good, bad or ugly.
It just depends on the type ofattack, which, again, the Salt
Typhoon being one of the men inthe middle.
But again, all apps aren'tencrypted.
And even look at TLS.
Tls just got updated because,you know, the encryption was
getting aged there.
(23:20):
So yeah, man, it's a cat andmouse game and it probably
always will be.
Chris (23:26):
I mean I'm not going to sit here and say you should
encrypt just for the sake ofdoing encryption, like doing it
at L7, l3, l2.
Like do I'm not saying do allof them?
I'm not saying do all of them,but I mean having multiple
locked doors on your data.
I feel like that is a netpositive thing as long as it
doesn't introduce too muchcomplexity, Too much complexity
(23:46):
yeah.
But yeah, I mean, if you'rerelying on one layer of
encryption and it's at a certainpiece of the stack, you've got
to consider that that could bebroken.
Tim (23:57):
I think in the long term Well, right, and again, it's not
that MACSEC was broken or IPSECor any of those.
It's literally, in the case ofspecifically MACSEC, in this
type of attack, like you said,the device that is owned is the
same device that's doing thedecryption and the encryption.
Chris (24:14):
This is a functional drawback of MACSEC.
That's just how it is.
It's not like it was, you know,unsecure or anything.
It was the thing doing.
The MacSec was unsecure.
Tim (24:24):
Yep, yep, and not much you could do about that.
Besides, of course you know,keep your, rotate your passwords
and do all the fun stuff tokeep your stuff safe.
Chris (24:32):
Anyway, maybe all the passwords were Cisco123.
Tim (24:35):
Yeah, that's all they got in.
Chris (24:37):
Yeah, All right, and with that I think we'll go ahead and
wrap up for this week.
So thanks again.
Remember we put all thesearticles into the show notes, so
if you want to have a look atany of these and there's a few
that we always throw in therethat don't always get talked
about on the show, so if youwant to have a look at those,
Please check out the news docthat's in the show notes.
(24:57):
Once again, I'll plug thisagain.
Tim and I have an AWS CertifiedAdvanced Networking Specialty
Exam Certification Guide fromPACT.
That's such a mouthful man.
Tim (25:09):
Yeah, it's like ANSC01.
Nobody will know what it means.
Chris (25:16):
ANSC01, test from AWS.
We are releasing a book withPACT on that particular exam.
It's up for pre-order now.
We will also put that in theshow notes.
It's between us and our goodfriend Steve McNutt.
Friend of the show.
Guest of the show.
So please check it out.
And with that I will let you goand we'll see you next week.
(25:36):
Take care, bye.
Tim (25:40):
Hi everyone.
It's Tim and this has been theCables to Clouds podcast.
Thanks for tuning in today.
If you enjoyed our show, pleasesubscribe to us in your
favorite podcast catcher, aswell as subscribe and turn on
notifications for our YouTubechannel to be notified of all
our new episodes.
Follow us on socials atCables2Clouds.
You can also visit our websitefor all the show notes at
(26:02):
Cables2Cloudscom.
Thanks again for listening andsee you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!