Episode #14 -Top Tactics for Larger Practitioners with The Leg Locking Giant - Dylan Smith - Caffeinated Jiu Jitsu

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu the blend
of white belt enthusiasm, blackbelt wisdom and a dash of
caffeine for that extra kick.
Dive deep into the world ofBrazilian Jiu-Jitsu as we
explore the journey, techniques,challenges and the sheer joy of
the sport from a white belt'sperspective, from intriguing

(00:23):
interviews with renowned coachesand professors to playful fun
episodes that'll have youchuckling mid-roll.
We've got it all brewed andready.

Speaker 2 (00:33):
Now, stepping over the mess and into your ears,
here's your host, joe Motes andwelcome back everyone to another

(00:57):
episode of caffeinatedjiu-jitsu, the podcast where we
blend our love for BrazilianJiu-Jitsu and high energy
caffeine.
I am your host, joe Motes, andtoday I am super excited about
our guests.
We have a fantastic guestjoining us.

(01:17):
We have with us Dylan Smith,who is a dedicated Brazilian
jiu-jitsu practitioner who hasmade remarkable strides in his
journey.
Dylan and I used to traintogether at Iron Wolf Academy,
as many of you know.
That's where I started myjourney out, and we got an

(01:40):
excited episode.
Today we're going to be divingdeep into what it's like to
train as a larger practitionerand we have an added bonus where
we're going to talk about thefascinating world of leg locks,
because that's kind of Dylan'sthing and he's going to share

(02:03):
with us.
So, dylan, welcome to the show.
Thank you, joe, for having me.
I'm really excited.
Sidewalks, because that's kindof dylan's thing and he's going
to share with us.
So, um, dylan, welcome to theshow thank you, joe, for having
me.

Speaker 3 (02:08):
I'm really excited.
I like what you're doing withthis podcast and, uh, I'm I'm
excited to uh rant about somejujitsu, so this should be a
good time yeah, man, I'm superexcited to have you here.

Speaker 2 (02:20):
Um, for for just starting out, for those of you
who don't know and don't followuh dylan on ig, he does, he's
pretty cool, I don't know.
What do you call them car carchats?
What do you call?

Speaker 3 (02:33):
them.
I've been using the hashtagdylan's jujitsu thoughts but, I
maybe need to change it todylan's car thoughts.
I don't know something.
I need to think of somethingcatchy, but um, just little
little, uh car talks.
That I'll do after my.
Anything interesting happensduring a training session.
Someone says something to me,kind of gets a thought process
going.

(02:53):
I'll just record a video on myway home and uh, kind of share
my thoughts yeah, it's.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
I've been seeing a lot of uh, the kind of different
influencers doing, doing kindof these car chats, um, jance,
uh, with five rings.
I know, you know, jance, uh,he'll post sometimes from his,
from his car.
You know notice, the other dayhe posted something and I'm like
, oh, he stopped over there byChateau Alon, so it was really
cool.
No, I love them, man.

(03:20):
I mean they're you know,they're concise, to the point,
they're always from yourperspective and I think that's
what helps all of us grow right,is all of us sharing and kind
of caring and, just, you know,sharing our experiences.
So, yeah, I really like them,man, Keep it up.

(03:40):
So let's see, let's start withyour journey, right, if you want
to, uh, dylan, start maybe kindof from the beginning.
What got you into jujitsu and alot of our listeners are are
people who are within.
You know, the first few yearsof jujitsu many blue belts, many

(04:01):
white belts.
Um, obviously I'm sure we havesome higher belts that listen,
but can you share some of yourkey challenges and milestones
that you've kind of faced onyour journey?
For those of you I've failed tomention, dylan is actually a
purple belt, so he's well on hisway.

Speaker 3 (04:19):
So I actually a little bit of a correction there
.
I am getting my purple beltwithin the next month.

Speaker 2 (04:25):
Nice.

Speaker 3 (04:27):
But our coach is doing, we're doing like a big
celebration.
It's actually going to end upbeing our 10-year anniversary
this year, Wow.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Wow, 10 years, yeah, gosh, yeah, I know Caleb is
excited about that.

Speaker 3 (04:40):
So he's actually held back a couple of us that were
supposed to probably already bepurple belts by now.
Um, but, I'm not complainingbecause I'm actually squeezing
in one last blue beltcompetition before I get
promoted.
So nice, nice um, you know, notthe worst thing, uh, but I'm
very excited that will be withinthe next month.
Um, yeah, so just to talk aboutmy journey, I, um, I think,

(05:02):
like a lot of people, um, once Ifinally got into jujitsu, I was
completely hooked, but it tookme a really, really long time to
find it.
So my brother he's 10 yearsolder than me and he's actually
a Gracie jujitsu black belt hejust got his black belt Wow, I
want to say two years ago, um,and he's probably been training

(05:25):
17, 18 years, something likethat um but he had long periods
where he took off.
But I, uh, I still kick myselffor this.
But he took me to a coupleclasses when I was like 12 and
uh, I still think about that tothis day that if I would have
stuck with that I'd be a blackbelt right now.
I'd probably be like a fiveyear black belt.
But I think every person I knowthat does.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Jujitsu has a.
I wish I would have startedearlier story.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
So that's definitely mine.
But you know, better late thannever.
I actually went through areally, really dark period in my
personal life around the age of26.
I went through a divorce.
Things were very, very tough.
It was very this is a very,very hard time for me, and I was
morbidly obese throughout mostof my 20s.

(06:17):
I was over 400 pounds at onepoint, with basically no muscle
and basically growing up.
A lot of people when they havehard times, they kind of fall
into different vices.
For me, food was one of mybiggest vices growing up and
that's how I got to the point ofbeing so big.
And I just got to the pointwhere and a lot of people

(06:39):
experience this when they gothrough something traumatic like
a divorce where they reallyneed to kind of take control of
their life and they need to feelsome sense of control because
everything feels so out ofcontrol.
So, with that being said, Ikind of got a little bit into
fitness and things like that.
I tried going to the gym.
It was a little boring to mejust lifting weights, but

(07:00):
something I don't honestlyremember exactly what it was
that reminded me about jujitsu,but maybe it was just being
around my brother because youknow, he was still training at
that time and I just needed to.
I needed to do something.
So I was like, you know, I'mgoing to give this jujitsu thing
a try and I actually went andtrained at our sister gym, twin
Tigers over in Winder Shout outto them they're an awesome

(07:23):
school for about two weeks and Ijust didn't end up staying
because they their scheduledidn't quite work with what I
was doing.
And then through them, I foundout that they had a sister
school and that was actually howI linked up with Caleb.
And this was right around thetime when all the craziness of
2020 was happening.
Caleb had just tried to do zoomclasses for a couple of weeks

(07:48):
and it was kind of funny.
One of the first conversationsI had with him he was like man,
I've tried really, really hardwith these zoom classes, but
this is Brazilian jujitsu, youjust can't do it over a computer
.
So it was through that that Ikind of got got, just got hooked
and then immediately, justbeing a bigger guy, being strong

(08:09):
, I did well at least you knowaround with the other white
belts, just the little bit thatI had seen from my brother.
I did a little tiny bit ofwrestling in middle school so I
did well starting off and mostbigger guys do.
At White Belt they do betterbecause they can kind of muscle,
muscle people around and thingslike that.

(08:29):
But it, yeah, I just I took offand it was one of the greatest
things that I've ever steppedinto in my life and I wish I
back then I could have realizedhow big of a deal that this
sport was going to be to my lifethroughout the next four or

(08:50):
five years.
Now that it's been.
But I went from over 400 poundsto, I think, at my lowest
because of jujitsu, I got downto around like 280 pounds, so
you're talking about 120 poundsof this.
Sport helped me drop off, um,just from the sheer amount of
calories I was burning because Iwas training so much.

(09:11):
Yeah, no, it was awesome.
I really, really loved being awhite belt.
I actually had a lot of fun atwhite belt.
I found blue belt to be a lotmore uh, challenging than white
belt um, yeah and I think a lotof bigger guys do well at white
belt and until they startgetting into the upper belts and
we can talk about that a littlemore later A lot of the
challenges, the bigger guys.

(09:32):
But that's my introduction.
Basically, I was in a very darkplace and I found jujitsu at a
very dark time in my life and itreally gave me something to
kind of put my energy and focustowards, something that had some
real tangible meaning, that washelping me to be healthier.
And, yeah, I would say that'sdefinitely how I got started.

Speaker 2 (09:51):
Yeah, I love every bit of that man.
There's just so much in yourjourney already, right, and from
the beginning to now I haveconversations outside of the
podcast, obviously, and then youknow, with training partners
and we're getting a lot of newpeople into the Alliance Roswell

(10:11):
location and I can't I can'ttell you just how many times
I've had conversations about,because I'll ask that question.
Hey, tell me, tell me yourjourney.
What brought you hereconversations about?
Because I'll ask that question.
Hey, tell me, tell me yourjourney.
What brought you here?
What?
And the therapeutic value ofjiu-jitsu that they've heard
about, wanted to try.
I mean, I had.

(10:32):
There was one guy I was talkingto at uh, it was recently and
it was a counselor thatrecommended jiu-jitsu.
You, like myself, they were aveteran and you know most all of
us deal with PTSD in some formor fashion and you know they
recommended jujitsu.

(10:52):
There's a great book out thereGosh, now I can't think of it
but it's about healing throughjujitsu, healing trauma, things
like that, and I rememberreading most's.
I remember reading most of itas a pretty long read, but it
was just amazing points.
And you know I I won't say thatI came to jujitsu in a, in a

(11:13):
dark time, but man has it helpedwith things like anxiety and
stress management.
You know I'm a, I'm a father.
I work, uh, you know, like mostof us, like like a dog, you
know, all the time, and it was,uh, it became something that was
mine.
Uh, like you, uh, I experiencedthe, the health benefits of, of

(11:40):
training a lot.
I lost not nearly as much asyou, but, uh, I lost, I think,
40, 40 pounds.
I, you were training at IronWolf when I started.
Uh, remember I remembertraining with you some God, I
was terrified, uh, I was likewhat am I going to do this?
But I remember you being anamazing training partner and you

(12:01):
know, you, you were one ofthose training partners that let
the white belts and the newbieswork.
You didn't just come in thereand say, you know I'm, I'm done,
I'm going to smash you, youknow I'm.
I remember you telling me tokind of where to move my legs,
you know how to handle halfguard and just some of those
things, and you know that setthe tone for me as I, you know,

(12:26):
training an iron wolf and having, you know, some of the senior
belts at least higher than I was.
You know, train like thatreally.
It really made an impact on howI now, as a blue belt, training
.
I'll agree with you too, I findblue belt super difficult.
I mean it really is.
I uh, white belt was fun, itwas exciting, you're learning

(12:51):
all the fundamentals, but bluebelt Now there's always that
little bit of pressure like, oh,I'm a blue belt, you know, and
all this white belt's killing me, cause you're right, if they're
heavier in strength and sizematters in jiu-jitsu, they say
you know that technique rulesall.
And yeah, technique's a bigthing.
But, bro, I mean, if they'restrong and they know a little

(13:14):
bit about what they're doing,you said you had a wrestling
background.
You're gonna have a really hardtime with that person, so but
yeah, that's awesome.
So we're talking about largepractitioners in jiu-jitsu and
you touched on it a little bitin your intro.
But what are some examples ofhow your size has influenced

(13:40):
your training and progression injiu-jitsu?
Maybe the size that you are now, right, now that you have a lot
of your muscle back and you'rean in-shape big guy, right?

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Yeah, that's a great question.
So I would say it hasinfluenced me both very
negatively and very positively.
With that being said, what Imean by that is, as a bigger guy
, especially at white belt,you're going to create a lot of
bad habits because there aregoing to be things that, just
based on your strength, you'regoing to be able to get away

(14:14):
with.
You're going to be able to getaway with having a bad guard
because you can just bench,press people off of you and they
get the side control.
You're going to be, you'regoing to be able to kind of get
away with a lot of bad habitsjust for the simple fact that
you're able to kind of movepeople around in a way.
But it's going to, if you'renot conscious of it, it's going

(14:35):
to hinder your techniquedevelopment.
And a lot of people say, youknow, strength versus technique.
There's this whole debate andit's like they're not counter to
each other, and I think that'swhere a lot of people get it
kind of mixed up.
And I think a little bit bit ofthat is the mythology of
jujitsu, with you know, just alittle guy using the technique

(14:55):
to beat up the big guy.
But my thought a white belt waslike okay, what happens when
the big guy learns the techniquethat the little guy used to
beat up the big guy?
What I have found is thatstrength is an ample.
It's like an amplifier.
So like you still have to havethe techniques, Like if you're
playing guitar, you still haveto know the notes, you still

(15:16):
have to know the chords andeverything.
But if it's an electric guitar,you're not going to hear
anything if you don't plug itinto an amp.
Now, how powerful your amp isis is how good and powerful your
sound is going to be.
It's the same thing with yourtechnique and strength.
How strong you are is going tomore enable you to enact your
technique and use your technique.

(15:36):
It's just going to amplify it,your ability to be able to kind
of make that happen in a role.
So as a bigger guy with whitebelts especially at white belt
it's very easy to develop baddefensive techniques because you
can get away with benchpressing people off of you,
things like that and and kind ofjust having a bad guard.

(16:00):
Most big guys are known forhaving bad guards Like they'll,
Like they'll play half guard andthat's it.
Like they'll get really good athalf guard.
Big guys are usually very goodat half guard, but they won't
really play much else In apositive way early on.
I think a lot of white beltsstruggle because they don't get
a lot of victories and they haveto kind of hold on to whatever

(16:21):
little victories they get.
And as a bigger guy, one of theI guess good things coming from
your strength is that you willbe able to punch above your
weight class and I say that withwith quotations in the air.
I mean that in terms oftechnique or skill, that you'll
be able to punch above yourweight class and be able to tap

(16:44):
people that are better than youskill wise, based on your
strength.
I remember at white belt Iactually I tapped a brown belt
and it was just him being Ithink he was being a little lazy
that day Not lazy, this is abad way to put it, but he just
was.
He was rolling with the whitebelt and he probably wasn't
thinking much about it and I gota head arm grip and I end up

(17:10):
tapping him.
I just remember he sat up andlooked at me like he had just
saw a ghost.
He's like what just happened.
He's like all right, I'mtalking to Caleb.
Today.
You need your blue belt soon.
But so there's a lot of pros andcons to that.
That size and strengthadvantage that you have and
strength advantage that you haveon one end you're going to have
more victories at a lower ranks.
But there are bad habits thatare still haunting me in my
jiu-jitsu to this day that Ideveloped as a white belt

(17:34):
because I was big and strong,was able to just bench, press
people off of me.
So and and the other thing thatpeople, that big guys have to
think about is and this was astruggle for me too is I didn't
have a lot of other big guys toto think about is and this was a
struggle for me too is I didn'thave a lot of other big guys to
train with.
I had like one or two at schooland you can make techniques
work on someone when they'refive weight classes below you,

(17:56):
Like you can kind of force somestuff to happen, Whereas and we
might get into this more laterin some of my competitions I ran
up against guys.
You know the whole, the wholemoniker pick on someone your own
size yeah, I did and it didn'tgo super well for me in some of
my competitions, um, and it'svery, it's very important as a

(18:18):
big guy to make sure that you'reconsistently rolling with other
big guys, because if you'reonly rolling with people smaller
than you, you're going to havean inflated sense of your
technique, um, and how well itworks.

Speaker 2 (18:31):
So, yeah, I, I think that's a, that's a great point.
So our professor at at Alliance, uh, professor Macio, he's,
he's an ultra heavy weight,right, he's, he's massive in in
all sense, height, weight,muscle, I mean it's, he's.
He's an animal, he's a beast,right, and you know he's a, he's

(18:51):
a black belt.
Uh, he just got a second stripe, so it was second class.
Um, black belt, he, he.
It's really hard to kind ofknow what his game is as a big
guy.
Obviously, for someone likemyself, and I was really lucky
in that when I first started atAlliance, after I moved up from

(19:15):
Iron Wolf, I moved over fromIron Wolf, I, it was just him
and I, because the school was sonew, I mean it was, this, was.
I mean the school now is onlymaybe getting close to two years
old and no one was coming tomorning class.
So I remember and he and I, youknow, I consider him a really

(19:37):
good friend now because all thetime we spent together over the
months and now a year, but Iremember, you know, you know,
going in I had two stripes whenI left Iron Wolf and I remember
going in the first day, you know, he was kind of trying me out
and let me roll and the guy justlays down and like the prone
position on his side, rightthere, he doesn't put any guard

(19:59):
up or anything, but man, it waslike because I was used to
rolling with, I think you wereprobably one of the the biggest
guys that I rolled with at, uh,iron wolf, but we didn't train a
lot together just because of wewent to different classes.
But, like you know, caleb, buthe's, he's not a heavyweight by
any.
You know, professor holland,he's not a heavyweight by any
means.
So it wasn't the pain that Ifelt, you know, rolling with him

(20:24):
and when he would get him outand I was like, oh my gosh, this
is it's.
It was a totally different gamefor someone like myself rolling
with, um, uh, ultra heavyweight.
And I I'll say, as someonesmaller who trains a good bit
now with with heavier guys, uh,it my jiu-jitsu man, there's

(20:45):
guys at our academy, the bigguys we got this guy Will.
I haven't rolled with him yet.
I'm not looking forward to it.
He's a personal trainer.
He squats 500 pounds.
He's not tall but he's just abig guy and I'm training with

(21:06):
people way above my weight classand even skillset, and it's
just made it better.
So for, uh, for those of us whotrain with kind of the
heavyweights, it helps improve,I think, our jujitsu overall,
you're going to get tapped,you're going to get beat.
I mean, that's that's not whatit's about.
It's about improving, uh, your,your survivor.
Survivability really is whatit's about.
Um, you mentioned, uh, you knowsome of the obstacles and

(21:31):
challenges that you had, or itsounded like you still kind of
deal with.
Is, you know, making sureyou're not continuing to develop
bad habits around, like thingslike guard and things like that.
But and you also mentioned thisas well but I wanted to ask you
kind of again to elaborate whatstrategies like and techniques

(21:53):
outside of you know, watchingyour guard and things like that
do you think works really wellfor yourself?
And in larger, you know largerpractitioners, I mean, and you
can even just talk maybe theguards and stuff.
I know we're going to talk leglocks later, but yeah, what do
you think are some goodstrategies and techniques for
those big guys listening yeah,that's an awesome question.

Speaker 3 (22:13):
So I definitely say, for big guys, the temptation,
especially early on in yourjiu-jitsu career, is going to be
to play a lot of your top game,I would say from white to blue
belt, like still develop yourtop game.
And this was kind of the way Idid.
It was I looked at who I wasrolling with.
So like, if I'm rolling withsomeone like Caleb, my coach

(22:36):
he's, you know, he's a blackbelt, he's been training for 20
years still taps me a ton everytime we roll, I'm going to use
my best thing I have against him, which is my top pressure.
But there's also going to bepeople I'm rolling against where
you know.
We have a girl there that'slike four foot seven and like
probably not even 100 pounds.

(22:56):
I'm not gonna try to, you know,pass the side control and just
and just smash there.
So I would say, base itsomewhat on who you're rolling
with, but work on your guard asmuch as you can early on.
For big guys I find theygravitate a lot towards any kind

(23:16):
of guards that slow people down, and what I mean by that is
like guards where I find anykind of guard where I have my
legs triangled.
So what I mean by that is likehalf guard.
That was actually the firstguard that I really got into
with half guard and that is aguard that big guys excel in.
I'm not exactly sure why themechanics of that are the way
they are, but big guys always dovery well in half guard.

(23:38):
And more specifically for mepersonally, because I have long
legs I really got into lockdownand funny competition story in
my first competition.
I had the whole range ofexperiences.
I gold medaled a division and Igot dead last in another
division.
But in one of the divisions itwas a nogi match and I ended up

(23:58):
on under bottom half guard forthe whole round and Caleb is on
the sidelines literally tryingto teach me a sweep that I don't
even know.
Mid-competition dude buddy'slike having to have actual class
mid-competition, like I'm in acompetition role and he's trying
to teach me a sweep and I justwas like I don't know what to do

(24:19):
here.
We ended up, he ended upwinning, but it was not nobody
scored, either of us, because Ijust kept him in half guard for
five minutes.
But it was that competitionloss and how embarrassing that
was for my coach having toliterally try to teach me a
technique made competition matchwhere I developed my entire
half guard game.

(24:39):
So before I ever even got intoleg locks I actually developed a
really good half guard to lockdown.
I really got into like theelectric chair, electric chair
sweep stuff like that yeah, it'sa very I think it's a very good
guard for big guys early on.
To start with is half guard andif you got longer legs, I think
lockdown is awesome.

(25:00):
And then from there, definitelystill don't.
Don't neglect your top game,but understand that it's going
to come to you much morenaturally than your guard game
is and you're going to have tobe intentional about your guard
game.
But I think half guard lockdownis a very, very good place for
big guys to start and it workswell in gi and no-gi.

(25:23):
So that would be my number onerecommendation.
It would be some kind of halfguard lockdown variation and
wherever you want to go fromthere.

Speaker 2 (25:32):
Yeah, half guard is something I've been working a
lot on as well.
Even as a guy at my size, Ijust think half guard is just a
super effective guard.
I mean, there's just so muchthat you can do with it.
From you know the passes or youknow, getting out of half guard
is relatively easy if youropponent has you in it.
Well, I won't say relativelyeasy, it depends on who you have

(25:53):
.
But there's so many passes andthings like that that you can do
.
And then you know, just, thesubmission chains are endless.
You know, and I'm an older guy,right, I'll be 45 this year.
So half guard, closed guard, Imean that's I'm a guard puller,
I'll admit it.
You know I pull guard almost ahundred percent of the time.

(26:13):
The guard area closed in halfor kind of where where I stay.
So if I were a hundred poundsheavier, you you can bet your,
bet your butt, that's where Iwould stay.
Um.
So you've talked, uh, you've,you've thrown some would stay.
Um.
So you've talked, uh, you've,you've thrown some, some kind of
uh tidbits in there around yourcompetition, uh, career.

(26:35):
So let's talk a little bit andspend some time on that before
we shift over to leg locks.
Well, first, let's, let's so.
So how many competitions haveyou done?
If you, if you can recall themall?
And then, what, uh, do you have?
Or if you have any memorablestories or experiences and you

(26:58):
just shared one but any, anymemorable experiences, or any of
those competitions or medalsthat really stand out, that
you're super proud of okay, yeah, no, that's awesome, I uh, so
I've actually only competedthree times um and I I wanted to
compete more but, like I toldyou, when I got into jiu-jitsu,

(27:19):
I got into jiu-jitsu at a verydark time in my life and mental
health has been something I'vereally struggled with.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
And I really really struggle with competition
because it brings a lot ofanxiety, and anxiety is already
something I struggle with justjust from existing and then and
then throwing the idea ofcompetition on top of that was
it was truly one of the mostterrifying things I think I've
ever done in my life.
But I found that doingterrifying things is good for

(27:47):
people.
I think, like I heard someonesay recently, it was like you
never, ever remember the daysthat you were comfortable, like
like great memories only comefrom, like, uh, high levels of
stress and meaning in the thingsthat you're pursuing.
So I did one competition atWhite Belt and two at Blue Belt.
Um, the one at White Belt I didbasically every division I

(28:09):
could.
It was the first time grapplingindustries came to Atlanta and
the whole experience was kind ofwild.
So my first match was a WhiteBelt Absolute Gi Division and
what that is is it's all WhiteBelts in the Gi but it's open
weight class and I felt so badfor the guy that I went against,

(28:30):
because it was me three-stripewhite belt getting close to blue
belt against a brand newone-stripe white belt who
probably weighed 160 poundssoaking wet, and I think I won
like 24 to nothing.
Like I didn't end up tapping theguy, but like I don't know how
it happened that we rolled somany times and I just kept

(28:51):
ending up in mount but I endedup with like I felt so bad for
this guy, I ended up with like24 points, um, and I got a gold
medal there.
And then the, the competitionperformance I'm most proud of
was in my gi weight class.
I subbed a guy the same way ina best two out of three.
So in each match within abouttwo to three minutes, I had

(29:14):
subbed him with an arm triangle,which I've, like I said earlier
, I have long limbs, so, uh, armtriangles is a good submission
for me.
And then in no gi was where Ihad the match that I spoke about
earlier, where I, um, I had, uh, I had spent the whole match
match under bottom half guardand the guy ended up winning.
And then I had my very lastmatch.

(29:36):
I went with a guy who no niceway to put it the guy probably
should not have been a blue belt, but he was one of those blue
belts where it's like a bluebelt with an asterisk next to it
, because I think he had beenwrestling his whole life and he
double-legged me.
I have never been picked uplike that in my life, being a

(29:56):
big man like I am.
He double-legged and sent me tothe ground and every bit of
wind in my body was knocked outand I was done.
I think he camorried me orsomething after that.
So, like I said, that firstcompetition was really special

(30:17):
to me because I had the fullrange of experience where I, you
know, dominated, got doublegold, but then, like, I also had
, like you know, heart wrenchingdefeats and you know very
embarrassing moments and I kindof really had the full gamut of
experience.
My first competition, whichmost people can't say that, so
I'm very blessed that it wentthe way it did.
First competition, which mostpeople can't say that, so I'm
very blessed that went the wayit did.
Um, but there was so muchanxiety leading up to that that
it took me a really long time tocompete again, to get myself in

(30:38):
the in the mindset for that.
And then the next time Icompeted I ended up against a
guy from our sister school twintigers, josh thom shout out to
him, one of the best men I know.
I love that guy, he's anabsolute monster and basically
he just ended up on top and got,I think, an Americana from side

(30:59):
control or something theclassic big guy, finish
Americana from side control.
And then I lost to.
I have one other match with aguy named Kyle Stevens Shout out
to him he's one of my bestfriends, but I didn't know him
before this competition and hebeat me in less than like 30
seconds.
It was, it was beautiful.
He hit me with a lat drop andsome kind of Kimura Americana or

(31:22):
something, but me and himactually spoke after that and we
have literally become bestfriends and it's one of my
favorite jujitsu stories that Itell people all the time.
This dude totally kicked mybutt and then we became best
friends, after which that's justjiu-jitsu for you.
That's just kind of how it goes, and we actually cross train

(31:43):
together now a lot, our two gymskind of we go to each other's
open mats and train together.
So just one of those cool waysthat jiu-jitsu kind of we go to
each other's open mats and traintogether.
So just one of those cool waysthat jiu-jitsu kind of connects
people.
And then I had one lastcompetition.
I was a new breed and I end upagainst a guy that he just was
better than me that day.
I will say, with both of thosecompetitions I was not eating

(32:06):
well, I was not working out, Inot lifting, and around about a
month up to each of thosecompetitions I had gotten really
anxious, which caused me to getreally depressed, which, like I
said earlier, struggle withemotional eating.
It's all kind of a viciouscycle.
So I went into thesecompetitions just like.
Not in any good kind ofphysical shape at all.

(32:28):
Not in any good kind ofphysical shape at all.
And it frustrates me because Iknow I didn't give it my best.
I didn't give my opponents mybest.
I know I haven't seen what Ican do at competition 100% yet
and that frustrates because Iknow I can do better.
So I'm actually competing thisweekend.
I am going down to Emerson withone of the guys from our gym,

(32:52):
colin Conway.
Shout out to him, he's anabsolute beast.

Speaker 2 (32:56):
Yeah, big Colin.

Speaker 3 (32:57):
Yeah, big Colin has he gotten bigger.

Speaker 2 (33:01):
Is that possible?

Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah, he got real big and then he started getting
shredded.

Speaker 2 (33:07):
Yeah, he's a monster.
I remember that guy.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
But I love him and he's been a real inspiration to
me and helping me get a bettermindset about competition.
Um.
So we're going down.
Um, I would not say I'm.
I've gotten a lot better withmy lifting and my eating, but I
am not still not where I want tobe.
Um, but I do the improvement.
I have more consistently liftedthe last probably six months

(33:32):
than my entire jiu-jitsu careerand I will say I've seen a huge
benefit in that and I encourageevery jiu-jitsu practitioner to
get on some kind of liftingprogram.
Um, talk to someone that knowswhat they're doing.
Develop a program, because it'snot for anything else.
It does make you less prone toinjury and and you'll you'll

(33:54):
appreciate how much it'll helpyou apply your technique.
Um.
But yeah, we're going down toemerson.
This saturday I'm going tocompete in nogi I.
I am known as the guy, thatkind of um.
I'm not a big guy at my gym,I'll just I'll put it that way
I'm more of a no-gi specialist,but I still try to train at
least one gi day a week becauseI don't want to be rusty in it.

(34:17):
I don't want to not know whatI'm doing, but all of my goals
and my passion are in the gi and, honestly, I like my fingers
and the gi destroys fingers.

Speaker 2 (34:26):
Yeah, yeah, I'm on the opposite side of the
spectrum.
I uh, when I left iron wolf andI trained there for six, almost
seven months, I only had twohours of nogi.
That's how, that's how much Iavoided nogi.
But uh, you know, when I movedup to alliance I started that's

(34:46):
when I started training everyday of the week.
So I do still still prefer gi.
I have to be able to slowpeople down Again.
I'm old, I'm not a big guy, I'mnot overly strong or muscular,
so I have to have something tograb.
I have never competed in no gi,but I just got my blue belt in
December.
So most competitions well, Icompete a lot in IBJJF.

(35:11):
I'll say a lot.
I've competed my last twocompetitions in IBJJF.
However, professor Maciel wastalking to me this morning and
he wants me to actually go downand fight in the one in Emerson.
So I may see you down therethis Saturday.
I don't know, I haven't decidedyet.
I may be a last-minute add downthere.
I've never fought a new breeds,so it won't be Nogi.

(35:40):
I have.
Even though I've been trainingNogi, I have very little game
there.
So you know, have you thoughtabout you shared?
You're competing next week ornot next week, but this weekend.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Do you have visions of maybe like pans or master
worlds or something like thatone day?
Yeah, so I am again to talk,talk more about colin.
He's been a huge inspiration tome.
Um, our, our, the gym.
I was telling you aboutmegalodon.
They've actually done somein-house tournaments and things
like that and I've seen thebenefit that that has for people
.
Me and Colin basically bothkind of agree that we want to

(36:17):
kind of take charge and reallystart to put Iron Wolf on the
map.
Iron Wolf is an amazing schooland Caleb is an amazing teacher.
I think he's maybe one of themost underrated jujitsu teachers
I've ever known, because theamount of knowledge that man has
for as young as he is, it'sjust something special.
But me and colin really, reallywant to put our school on the

(36:39):
map.
So this is going to be thefirst of many competitions and
we want to I mean, colin wantsto go as far as to go do the
adcc open?
um, oh wow, yeah I'm down to trythings like that.
We've had one of our guys, uh,jance, uh he actually went and
did, um, he did, I think he didthe adcc open yeah, watched his

(36:59):
matches.
Yeah, he did well so we we havesome high level guys.
I think our our biggest problemright now is I think we're I
think we're in the infancy ofwhat we are as a school.
We're very bottom heavy.
What I mean by that is a lot ofwhite and blue belts, but we
have some people that arestarting to rise up.
Like I said, we're about tohave a new crop of purple belts.

(37:22):
So me and Colin both feel astrong urge to really go out
there, start dominating localcompetitions and really making
it a regular thing.
I find the only way withcompetition to really get used
to it is just to do it moreoften.
I think my biggest problem wasI was taking six months off
between competitions and then bythe time another one rolled

(37:43):
around, I would make myselfanxious again.
But if you do it enough, itbecomes normal.
So, yeah, I would love to do allthe big competitions, but for
me specifically, my goals are inNogi.
So it's going to be as muchNogi as I can do, but for now
I'm trying to just get my feetwet and do a new breed.
The goal would be, every two tothree months at least doing one

(38:03):
.
I want to start actually doingsome Nagas and I know we're
going to get into this in aminute, but Naga is much more
friendly, I guess that's the wayI would put it with their leg
lock rules.
The new breed is I.
You know, I want to do more leglock stuff in competition.

(38:28):
But, a lot of that.
You have to roll against brownand black belts to be able to do
the things that I want, right,yeah, um, so I'm, I'm definitely
going to try.
There's a Naga in October thatI want to hit.
We have one of our white beltsis going to do his first
competition there, so I thinkI'm going to go to that one,
cause they're they're veryfriendly with the leg lock rules
there.
Um, but, yeah, no, definitely,uh, me and Colin are, we're,
we're kind of, uh, we'retraining to be on a warpath,
because we really want to makeIron Wolf a recognized school

(38:49):
amongst the, you know, at leastthe local Georgia area.

Speaker 2 (38:52):
Yeah, Well, you know, I guess this is kind of putting
everybody on on warning.
When they see the two, two bigIron Wolf guys walking in,
they'll know what you're there,what you're there to do.
So that's awesome, I mean, youknow, man, we would love, uh,
it'd be awesome, to have you and, uh, Colin, come up and train
train at Alliance someday.
I think you'd really enjoy.
You know, rolling withProfessor Maciel and some of our

(39:16):
guys as well, I still get downto Iron Wolf when David has the
morning classes.
I try to get to at least onceevery couple of months or a few
months.
So Iron Wolf is where I startedout.
So I like to, you know, go backthere from time to time.
Man, well, dude, we are doingexactly what we thought we would

(39:38):
do.
Man, we're talking it up.
Let's shift gears now.
And you know, I know you'vebeen chomping at the bit,
probably to talk about this.
But let's shift gears and talkabout some leg locks, about this
.
But let's, let's shift gearsand talk about some leg locks
Now.
Um, I think I shared this withyou when I, when we connected to
talk about, you know, doing apodcast episode.

(39:59):
I know very little when itcomes to a wide variety of of of
leg locks and most of ourlisteners.
Again, the podcast focuses onthose who only have a few years
of jiu-jitsu, or maybe juststarting.
So if you could take maybe acouple, a few moments here and

(40:20):
introduce our listeners to tokind of what, what we mean when
we talk about leg locks and kindof where you see them fitting
in in jiu-jitsu.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Yeah, absolutely so.
Leg locks have a very, veryinteresting history with
jiu-jitsu.
Basically, for the longest timeleg locks especially in the
older days of jiu-jitsu theywere kind of looked at as almost
a last resort technique.
It was like you couldn't getany of your other real
submissions to work, so why notscrew it, fall back for a leg

(40:54):
lock.
But it wasn't necessarilylooked at as like an honorable
thing.
It wasn't really looked at likeyou had a lot of technique and
I would say even to a certaindegree maybe they were kind of
almost looked down on.
And I think part of that maybeis how the gracies viewed leg
locks.
Um, because it just wasn't abig part of what they did, um,

(41:17):
and then you see guys like deanlister, who is, you know, a big
guy who did leg locks, but youknow he had the famous quote, uh
, why ignore 50 of the humanbody?
And then you have guys likedanaher who hear that and
basically run with it.
And then for it was probablylike a decade where they were
just leg locking everybody,because a lot of the the old

(41:39):
school guys were like, hey, thisisn't a real technique, this is
kind of a last resort thingthat we're not going to tap to
this.
Um, and then you have a lot ofthese new guys coming in that
are like this is awesome, thisis so much fun and you know
they're learning these newthings and dana hair's teaching
these guys and they basically goon a tear and they just leg
lock everybody for 10 years.
And then it becomes a thingwhere if you don't have some

(42:01):
kind of leg lock defense, you'rejust you're in for it.
And that's why guys like gordonryan, gary tonin, craig j guys
they they dominated for so manyyears.
Was people never reallybelieved how effective leg locks
could be because of how theywere viewed in the in the older
years of jujitsu.
Fast forward to now, um, Iactually recently heard a Dan or

(42:24):
her talking about leg lockswhere he actually thinks people
have almost gone too far.
The other way that people havebecome leg lock obsessed to the
point that, um, they're kind offoregoing a lot of the other
techniques and kind of learninga lot of the basics of jujitsu.
And I look at it in the way thatlove them or hate them.

(42:45):
I look at it in the way thatGordon Ryan kind of thinks about
it and I've seen him talk aboutthis before, where he looks at
it as a very valuable toolwithin a toolbox.
And what I mean by that is youdon't want to be a one trick
pony.
A lot of people will kind ofhave their one technique or
their one thing that they'rereally, really good at and
they'll just get that thing towhere it's amazing.

(43:08):
But maybe they've kind ofneglected a lot of other areas,
whereas you look like look atsomeone like Gordon Ryan where
he's kind of perfected all thedifferent areas and he can kind
of pull whatever tool he needsfor whatever specific match.
That's where I think Leglockscome into play.
For me personally, getting intoLeglocks, my biggest

(43:29):
introduction to them and I'msure you remember but was
rolling with Steve Steve's ablack belt at our gym.
He looks like I tell people helooks like Agent 47 from the
Hitman video games.
I don't even know what I'mtalking about.

Speaker 2 (43:42):
No, I know exactly, I remember Steve.

Speaker 3 (43:45):
Yeah, he's the nicest guy in the world but looks like
a Stone Cold killer and he'sone of the better leg lockers I
know and Caleb's a very good leglocker too, but Steve, that's
like his specialty, that's whathe really gravitated towards.
And just being around that Inever at White Belt, I never

(44:06):
even considered that as apossibility for me, just as a
big guy.
I was like there's no way I cando that.
Steve, his feet are above hishead.
What is happening?
Like I don't know, just stayaway from my legs, I don't care,
I don this happening like Idon't know, just stay away from
my legs, I don't care, I don'twant to know about it.
Like I'm just going to go smashpeople in side control and then

(44:27):
I, you know, like I this allkind of ties together.
But I talked about earlier likeI had some tough competition
matches with some big guys andit was that whole idea of
picking on somebody your ownsize.
Well, I realized there's goingto be some guys that are going
to be stronger than me that I'mnot going to be able to muscle
around or wrestle or whatever,whatever it may be.
So I need to develop my toolboxin order to have things that
are going to help me be able toequalize.

(44:50):
And the cool thing about halfguard is it actually leads into
leg locks very well, becausethere's a lot of underhoking the
leg and half guard to elevatethings like that and that
actually plays very, very wellinto into getting into leg lock
entanglements.
And I just found it as anatural progression.
And then one day I just kind ofstarted to mess with it a

(45:11):
little bit and it is one ofthose things the only way I can
describe it leg locks took to methe same way that I took to
jujitsu, just like jujitsu as awhole.
Like when I got into leg locksI got completely addicted to it
and I did nothing else for likeprobably six months.
I told caleb I was like, hey,man, I want to get my leg lock

(45:32):
game really good.
I'm pulling guard every round.
I'm going for your legs, likeif I try to stand and wrestle,
call me out.
Like I want to get good atthese leg locks.
So I basically did nothing butplay guard for like six months
trying to develop my leg lockgame.
Working with Caleb and Stevehas been very, very helpful in

(45:52):
that and I see it's been really.
Uh, how do I describe this?
I think the best way to say itis it's been very nice for my
game to not be so onedimensional as a big guy it used
to be.
It was like hey, don't let thatguy on top of you and you're
probably fine.
If you can get him on his back,you can pass his guard, you can

(46:14):
wear them out, you know you'llbe fine, but if he gets on top
of you you're done.
Whereas now, when people rollwith me, they're like, oh no, if
I let him on, if I play guard,he's gonna smash them out.
Or if, uh, if I try to playstanding, he's gonna pull guard
and get on my legs either way.
Like right, yeah, it's dinged ifyou do, dinged if you don't
right um, and, and I have foundthat getting into leg locks and

(46:38):
kind of developing that halfguard leg lock, all that stuff
as my bottom game has made me amuch more well-rounded grappler
to where I don't ever reallyhave a place now top or bottom,
where I don't feel like I Idon't have something to offer,
something to do.
And I think for a lot of bigguys, if they're honest with
themselves, if they really takea look at themselves, they get

(47:00):
so good at not having to playguard but they don't really have
a good guard and I think as abig guy, it's a very important
thing that you have to forceyourself to play bottom and I
literally had to force myselffor about six months of just
like I'm pulling guard everyround and for the first couple
of months my guard got smokedand every time I tried to leg

(47:21):
lock Caleb or Steve, I gotcounter leg.
That's the.
That's the one thing you needto remember when getting into
leg locks is every time you haveaccess to their legs.
They usually have access toyours, but it's, it's been
wonderful, I love it, and Ithink a lot of the stigma around
leg locks is unfounded, becausethis is jiu-jitsu Every

(47:46):
submission is dangerous, likekimuras are incredibly dangerous
.
I've seen horrific injuries offkimuras but yet people want to
kind of single out you know leglocks as this dangerous thing
and I get it it.
You know it is with the legsyou want to be able to walk um.
I have found that theenvironment at my gym around leg

(48:07):
locks is one of the healthiestI've ever seen.
We'll teach a white belt how toheel hook, but we're also not
necessarily um going in androlling with them day one
heel-hooking them either.
There's a balance to everything.
But I have found that our whitebelts training leg locks early

(48:29):
on has actually really helpedthem a lot.
They're all getting really goodleg lock defense.
It's getting a lot harder toleg lock people, which is
frustrating for me, but I thinkit's.
I think it's a valuable thingand I think a lot of the stigma
around leg locks is largelyunfounded.

Speaker 2 (48:49):
Yeah, I, I think all of those are the great points
and insights.
I, um, uh, you know, if I think, well, let's, let's take that.
That thought about the whitebelts and, uh, I trained
somewhere where we don't, uh,you know, do leg locks and heel
hooks and things like that for,uh, the lower belts right, the
white belts, you know, maybe,maybe share a few of the

(49:10):
techniques and training tips forthose who are listening.
In mastering leg locks, likeyou know, when you started, you
said you pulled guard more.
You told your professor hey,look, if you see me trying to
stand up and smash, call me outon it.
But what are some other thingsright?

(49:32):
Is mobility important?
Is, you know there's somethingthat they need to focus on and
think about as they, as they gointo to improving their leg lock
game?

Speaker 3 (49:43):
yeah, that's a that's a really great question.
Um, so the mobility is veryimportant.
So I look at somebody likesteve.
He's very naturally flexible.
Um, I, flexibility isabsolutely important.
I will say I'm weirdly flexibleand what I mean by that is is
I'm very undisciplined when itcomes to stretching.

(50:03):
I'm going to be honest with you, I don't like stretching.
I just don't like doing it.
But I understand that it's anecessity, especially if you
want to play guard.
The more flexible you are, themore that's going to help you.
I will say, when I, when I'mwarm and I'm rolling, I get my
flexibility from cold to beingvery warm.
It's a big spectrum.

(50:25):
So I'm able to do stuff thatlike surprises people.
I.
I inverted on Caleb a couple ofweeks ago and he looked like he
saw a ghost.
It was really funny.
He was like you're not supposedto be able to do that.
But I would say, definitely,mobility is important.
Definitely a lot of stretchingout your hips, hip flexors,
things like that, Hamstringsit's going to help you a lot In

(50:49):
terms of developing actual leglock skill.
I say this to people all thetime and this is like maybe the
most important thing I couldtell someone just from a
practical, technical side withleg locks.
I feel like and this is just mepersonally I feel like 90 to
95% of the whole leg lock gameis your entries.
When I'm on someone's leg, mostof the time I'm able to finish.

(51:10):
I'm usually able to get theheel hook.
Whatever it is I'm looking forand I'm fine.
I find that the entire battlefor me is actually getting to
someone's leg.
When someone knows that you'retrying to leg lock them, it is
so, so difficult to get to areally good deep leg lock
position.
A lot of people can get onsomeone's legs but there is a

(51:32):
lot of nuance in how tight it isand what kind of leg lock
position you're in.
Do they have a counterattack,Things like that.
But I would tell people isexamine what your game is and
your guard game and figure outwhat kind of entries work from
there.
So for me, playing a lot ofhalf guard, underhooking the leg

(51:53):
and elevating is a big part ofmy leg lock entries and also
just a lot of I like pulling to50-50.
That's one that I found thatworks for me.
A lot of underhooks,underhooking legs works well for
me because I have long arms.
I would say examine your game,examine your bottom game and

(52:14):
then look at what kind of leglock entries you can do from
where you're at in your bottomgame, Because a lot of people
like closed guard and K guard isa very good entry from closed
guard.
I'm sorry, were you going tosay something?

Speaker 2 (52:26):
Yeah, yeah, no, I just something came.
So I remember at Iron Wolf wetrained a lot of X guard, double
leg, single leg.
I mean, are those guards goodand effective for you know, de
La Riva, to getting access tothe leg.

Speaker 3 (52:44):
Absolutely, absolutely.
I think X and single X are twovery important ones.
There are some very good guardpulls that you can actually do
from standing into single X.
That will actually off balanceyour partner and you'll be on
their leg.
We actually just did some ofthose recently, a couple of
weeks ago, in our in ourcurriculum where we're at right
now.
So, yeah, definitely those two.

(53:07):
Any kind of guard Delaheva orreverse Delaheva, there's always
some kind of way to get to thelegs.
Some of them they're a littlemore.
It's a little more intricatehow you get to the legs more.
It's a little more intricatehow you get to the legs, um.
So I would say half guard iscalf.
Guard was my original guardgame, so that's why I referenced
that earlier Cause for me thatwas the most natural pathway for

(53:29):
me to get to legs.
But single X is amazing andyou're already on their leg, um,
and if that's a guard that youfeel like you can pull to and
get to, I recommend that all day.
I also love just X guardbecause I have long legs.
So when I stretch someone outan X guard, they really, really
feel stretched out.
Yeah, any of those guards wouldbe great.

(53:51):
I would say just try to figureout what is the best path for
you, what is the guard you feelmost comfortable in and how to
get to the legs from there andwhat entry you can do from there
.
The single x is great.
That would actually probably bea really good one to start with
, because there are some greatstanding guard pulls that you
can do two single x and you'realready just immediately on a
leg so well.

Speaker 2 (54:14):
I want to go back to something, and thanks for
sharing that.
I don't play nearly as much Xguard as I used to For some
reason, whatever reason.
I've kind of gotten away fromit.
But I think leg locks andthings like that is definitely
something I'm hoping to learnmore about, and just as I think

(54:39):
of the mechanics and the factthat you know what gives you the
most access to the legs thequickest you know.
That's kind of what broughtthat thought to my mind and made
me ask I really appreciatethose insights.
You know, earlier you talkedabout I think you it referenced
some of the ethical aspects ofleg locks and how some academies
and schools are like yeah, yeah, this is jujitsu man, you know

(55:02):
it's, it's a mission, we'regoing to teach it.
You know, um, and then thingslike competition, like IBJJF.
I mean you can't even do thatat what?
Is it Brown belt or black belt?
Maybe?
I think it may be some a lot ofthe leg locks you can't even do
until your black belt.
And then you've got others thatyou do it as soon as you walk in

(55:23):
the door, right, if you know it.
I mean, what are your thoughts?
I mean, do you think like IBJJFand like all academies should
be training leg locks.
I mean, do you see any dangers?
Dangers to it, I mean just kindof.
What are your thoughts on it assomeone who does a lot of this?

Speaker 3 (55:46):
yeah, yeah, that's a really great question.
I I I would say I don't thinkthere should ever be a school
that's not training new peopleon how to do leg locks.
My main reason for that is ifyou're ever going to have anyone
go to compete, they're going torun into leg locks, straight
ankles.
They're legal from white allthe way to black belt.

(56:07):
So at the very least you needto have all your white belts to
know how to at the very leastdefend a straight ankle.

Speaker 1 (56:15):
Right, yeah.

Speaker 3 (56:16):
If not, try to counterattack from a straight
ankle.
So I would say a very, verybare minimum your school should
be teaching white beltseverything they need to know
about straight ankles.
If not, I just feel like you'renot doing what you need to do
to properly prepare them.
With that being said, I Iunderstand the hesitation, um,
because I think having a leginjury is probably more

(56:38):
crippling to someone's dailylife than maybe any other kind
of injury you can get in jujitsubecause, like, if my elbows
tweaked or something I can just,you know, use my left arm more
a little bit at work orsomething like it's, it's not
the end of the world, but if Ican't walk, that's a big deal.
So I do understand thehesitation and the fear.
I think a lot of it was, um,maybe kind of built up to be

(57:03):
more than what it should be overthe years.
Um, and a lot of that was frompeople who just didn't want to
tap, to tap the leg locks, a lotof the you know, the old guard.
Um, I would say, yeah,definitely every school should
be teaching white belts aboutstraight ankles.
I would go as far to say, like,if I was running my own school,
I I would teach them everything.

(57:25):
I would maybe say, maybe stayaway from some of the crazier
ones while you're rolling atwhite belt.
Yeah, um, but people need to beable to see this stuff, they
need to know how to defend it,because they're going to run
into it in competition.
And yeah, that's the ethicalside of it.
I think the argument againstthem and there's no nice way to

(57:47):
put it, I think it's silly.
They're just, they're a part ofjiu-jitsu.
Jiu-jitsu is breaking apart thehuman body in very meticulous
ways and and the legs are a partof that body.
Um, with that being said, I,you know you, you want balance
and everything.
So, yeah, um, I think that'swhy I think a good suggestion is

(58:11):
maybe just teacher, teacher,what I mean?
Teach them about heel hooks,let them drill it and stuff, but
maybe hold off on doing thatrole question for any.
You know, maybe school ownerslistening out there trying to
trying to think about this.
But you know, my coach told meone of the first moves he
learned was was a heel hook, andthey were learning it way back
in the day when they were likewearing tennis shoes.
So, like the heel hook was wayworse, because I could see.

Speaker 2 (58:37):
I could see him getting heel hooked in some
Adidas or some some Jordans.
Um, no, and, and, and we do ourfor our white belts, we do the
straight ankle locks and thingslike that and the heel hooks,
they do teach it.
We have more of kind of therestricting, rolling type
process.
But you know, there's this it'salmost like the gi no gi debate

(58:59):
, right, when it comes to leglocks, and I agree with, with
dana hers, uh, you know, it'sall it's on it.
You don't want to.
I don't think you ever want toignore any part of the body when
I mean when you're on thestreet if somebody's trying to
harm you, and I mean havingknowledge and access to uh, to,

(59:22):
to their legs and knowing whatto do with them.
I mean, at the end of the day,jujitsu is it's, it's a
self-defense martial art, youknow, and that's that's what it
was started as and that's that'sultimately what it is.
So well, look, dylan, we wehave been talking and we have
covered a lot of stuff.
Man, and I want to give you sometime here as we close out to

(59:47):
and I like to do this with mostof my guests is think about that
white belt who may be in theirfirst week, right.
And then think about maybe thatblue belt who's going into kind
of their second year, if youwill, right.
And then think about maybe thatblue belt who's going into kind
of their second year, if youwill right.
You know those practitionerswho are between one and, I'd say
, three years.

(01:00:08):
Two-part question One whatadvice would you give them to
encourage them and inspire them?
And you know this could be foryour big practitioners and then
for your, your average size guys.
And then the second part isthose who may be listening, who

(01:00:32):
are thinking about getting offthe couch and going to a trial
class, right?

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
So yeah, the couch and go into a trial class, Right
?
So, yeah, All right, I lovethis, Um, I.
So for my big guys out there, Iwant to throw this out there
Don't be afraid to work yourguard.
Take a couple months, donothing but pull guard.
Figure out where you like.
Start with half guards, thatdoesn't work for you.
Figure out something that worksfor you.
Don't be the big guy that justspams Americanas from side

(01:01:00):
control.
It's my biggest pet peeve withthe big guys.
It's why a lot of people thinkour division is kind of boring
to watch.
It's been my goal to be a bigguy that is exciting to watch
when he rolls, and for the mostpart, everybody I've been told I
usually fit that bill prettygood and that's my biggest
encouragement for big guys isdon't be a one-trick pony.

(01:01:25):
Develop your full game, becauseyou'll be glad that you did,
because then when you're onbottom, you're never going to be
worried about you know, am Igoing to be stuck here?
Are they going to out-cardio meLike what's going to happen?
Because if you get back on top,you're fine.
Smash like you know, hulk,smash like always.
Um, but definitely develop yourbottom game and don't be scared
to do it either.
Uh, you'll regret not doing itlater on if you don't.

(01:01:48):
Um, for just the average personI say don't be afraid to work
your weaknesses.
And it's kind of the same thethe same advice.
But like, if you're a only aguard player, start looking at
some wrestling, you know.
Start looking at some some judo, some standup, different things
like.
Work on your weak areas,because it's really fulfilling

(01:02:12):
as a jujitsu guy to know thatthere's not really a spot where
I don't have something I can do.
If I'm on bottom, I'll get onyour leg.
If I'm on bottom, I'll get onyour leg.
If I'm on top, I'll, you know,smash past the mountain, smother
, you know.
And yeah, as for the people whoare thinking about trying
jiu-jitsu, I can promise you onething Like I said earlier, your

(01:02:36):
biggest regret after startingjiu-jitsu would be that you
didn't start sooner.
I try to tell people thisbecause I use jujitsu as a
mental health tool.
It has brought me to, it hasgiven me a second family, it has
given me better health, it hasgiven me wonderful group of
friends, challenges andexperiences I never thought I

(01:02:58):
would get to have in my life.
I'd never even thought I wascapable of Losing the weight
that I've lost and getting towhere I've gotten in jujitsu has
gotten rid of the lie in mymind that there's anything that
I can't do.
I no longer can tell myself Ican't do this, I can't do that
because I've already donesomething pretty dang hard and

(01:03:20):
pretty dang incredible.
And now every time I go to anyother venture in my life I don't
have that lie anymore thattells me I can't do this.
I don't have that excuse becauseI've proven to myself that I
can do these things and I willtell people jujitsu is not going
to fix all your problems, Likeyou still need to work on
yourself.

(01:03:41):
You know spiritually, mentally,physically, all of it.
But what I have found for mepersonally is jujitsu has given
me such a clear mind from allthe anxiety and noise of life
that it's made me much morecapable and able to kind of
tackle on the rest of the thingsthat I'm dealing with in life.
It just helps me to be moreclear, more focused, more calm,

(01:04:04):
because when you're going upagainst monsters and getting
your head ripped off every othernight, your arms, you know all
the different things that happenin jujitsu makes everything
else kind of pale in comparison.
And it makes you strongermentally.
It's not going to fix all yourproblems but, man, it'll get you

(01:04:33):
to a place where you can reallytackle your problems with a
clear mind and just a goodspirit.
Yeah, my biggest advice is getoff the couch and go to a trial
class.
You're going to love it.
It's going to be a good time.
If you see the big guy, don'tbe afraid to roll with them.
Most almost all big guys Ihave- found, and this is true
for me personally is they'regentle giants.
Yeah, uh, one thing I pridemyself in is that caleb compared
me with anybody at our school.
So we have like a girl that Ithink I said this earlier.

(01:04:55):
She's like four foot seven,probably 90 pounds pounds, and I
literally just rolled with hertwo nights ago.
We had a great roll and shedidn't get hurt.
She loved it.
You know, I had a great time.
I learned a lot.
Like he can trust me with theselittle people because I've
really taken the time to be toprove to him and prove to myself

(01:05:17):
that I can be a good trainingpartner.
And do understand that peoplethat I can be a good training
partner and do understand thatpeople are going to be a little
hesitant to roll with the biggerguys.
But be that welcoming presence,be that gentle giant and, yeah,
get out there and train.

Speaker 2 (01:05:34):
Man, I can't think of a better way to end the
conversation.
This has been amazing and oneof the biggest things I love
about jiu-jitsu is the communityand the closeness you have and
the willingness of all of us toshare with each other.
I miss all you guys at IronWolf and I really appreciate and

(01:05:54):
value the fact that you tooksome time out of your evening to
to jump on and, and you know,have a conversation and support
the podcast, and I know thelisteners are going to love you
know all the content and theinsights.
Look, there's a lot of big guysout there doing jujitsu and leg
locks are are are the talk ofthe town.
So this is this has been agreat conversation.

(01:06:15):
I really, really appreciate you, really appreciate you coming
on and spending some time.

Speaker 3 (01:06:21):
Joe, anytime, my friend, I love what you're doing
here.
I miss you and, yeah, this hasbeen an honor.
I love it and I'm very gratefuland humbled that you asked me
to be on.
Thank you for this.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
Yeah, and one question before I close this out
when are we going to see thelaunch of the Leg-Locking Giant
podcast?

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
I don't know about that.
I did tell some people I'mgoing to start posting more on
Instagram.
You can find me on Instagram.
It's e underscore, leglockingunderscore giant, all under case
.
I post a lot about jiu-jitsu,share a lot of jiu-jitsu memes,
but I don't know if a full-onpodcast is in order.
I think there's a lot of goodjiu-jitsu memes, um, but I don't
know if a full-on podcast is inorder.
I think there's.
You know there's.

(01:07:02):
There's a lot of good jiu-jitsupodcasts out there, including
yours, so but uh, I'll post somegood stuff on instagram from
time to time yeah, yeah, we'llkeep posting the car chats, man,
I love them.

Speaker 2 (01:07:13):
And to our listeners, uh, like dylan said, you can
find them on ig.
His link will be in the episodedescription and you know
everyone.
Thanks for listening and don'tforget to subscribe, leave a
review, join.
Go on to the caffeinated jiujitsu IG page.
Join the community.
I'm like Dylan.
I post good memes every now andthen.

(01:07:35):
Just join us next episode andremember stay grounded, stay
caffeinated and let's rollthrough this journey together.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
And that's the final tab on today's episode of
caffeinated jujitsu.
A big thanks to all of ourlisteners, especially today's
insightful guest, for sharingtheir BJJ knowledge and tales.
If you felt that adrenalinerush and are hungry for more,
hit, subscribe, drop a reviewand spread the jujitsu buzz.

(01:08:07):
For show notes and to contactthe host, reach out to the email
provided in the podcastdescription and to join our
grappling community, head overto Instagram.
Get those geese.
Crisp your coffee strong andalways be prepared for the next
roll Oss.

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Episode #14 -Top Tactics for Larger Practitioners with The Leg Locking Giant - Dylan Smith

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode #14 -Top Tactics for Larger Practitioners with The Leg Locking Giant - Dylan Smith