Episode #15 - Lessons From the Masters: Leo Nogueira - Caffeinated Jiu Jitsu

Episode Transcript
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Intro/Outro (00:01):
Welcome to Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu the blend
of white belt enthusiasm, blackbelt wisdom and a dash of
caffeine for that extra kick.
Dive deep into the world ofBrazilian Jiu-Jitsu as we
explore the journey, techniques,challenges and the sheer joy of
the sport from a white belt'sperspective.

(00:22):
From intriguing interviews withrenowned coaches and professors
to playful fun episodes that'llhave you chuckling mid-roll.
We've got it all brewed andready.
Now stepping onto the mats andinto your ears, here's your host
, joe Motes welcome everyone toanother episode of caffeinated

(00:57):
jujitsu.

Joe (00:59):
Everyone, I am super stoked for today's episode.
I told many of the listenersseveral months ago that we were
going to be launching a seriescalled Lessons from the Master,
or Lessons from the Masters, andwe had my professor on, rodrigo

(01:19):
Maciel, who was our first blackbelt.
That gave us some good insights.
But today is extremely specialbecause sitting no more than a
foot and a half, maybe two feet,in front of me is Professor
World Champion, one of my BJJheroes, leo Nogueira.
Professor Nogueira, welcome.

Leo (01:42):
Hello everyone.
Thank you guys for theinvitation.
I feel honored to be here and Ihope you guys, I hope to share
good advice to everyone.

Joe (01:52):
Yeah, I'm so, so excited.
I you know the term fanboy.
I don't know if you've everheard that, but that's
definitely what I'm sitting heredoing now.
I'm sitting here doing now, forthose of you who may uh not
know, uh professor nagara.
In his uh jujitsu background,he is a multi-world champion.

(02:13):
He is ibjjf master worldchampion, uh way world champion,
pans champion, braziliannationals champion and europe
Open champion, and I'm sure Imissed some other championships
in there.
You know he's a multi-timechampion.
He is a black belt under thelegendary Fabio Grochel.

(02:36):
Did I say that correctly?
Grochel Grochel, okay, okay.
Who is also one of the foundersof Alliance as well.
Right, and just listen, he's acelebrity in the jiu-jitsu
community.
I'm so excited that he's heretoday.
And also I want to call out,before we get into it, the
location we're at today.
We're where it all started herein Atlanta, Georgia.

(03:00):
Right, Was this Dunwoody?
We're in Dunwoody.
All right, so we're in Dunwoodyat Alliance headquarters.
And this is where it all kickedoff in 93, right, Was it 1993?

Leo (03:11):
Yeah, more or less.

Joe (03:13):
Yeah, and it's an absolute privilege to be here at the
headquarters.
This isn't just a gym, it'sreally a cornerstone in
jiu-jitsu culture globally gymit's really a cornerstone in
jujitsu culture globally.
Alliance has gyms and locationsnot just throughout the US but
throughout the world, and I'mexcited to be part of the family

(03:35):
and, again, excited for theconversation today.
So let's jump into it.
All right, let's talk about, uh, let's start uh, professor
nagara, about uh, kind of onyour early days, if you can kind
of take us back to when you,when you first started
practicing jujitsu, you, youwere growing up and you lived in

(03:57):
sao paulo sao paulo a state buta small city guarujá.
Oh, okay yeah, I'm a small townguy myself.
So what initially drew you tojiu-jitsu and how did you begin
your training?
How did you come to it?
We all fall into this thing,right?

Leo (04:15):
Yeah, yeah.
So it started early.
I've always been a sport guy.
I grew up doing sport, swimming.
I started karate beforejiu-jitsu and the main reason
that I started jiu-jitsu was forfighting the street.
So back in the days we didn'tstart jiu-jitsu for being a

(04:35):
champion or get a medal.
It was for self-defense.
Especially being in Brazil Late90s was no bullying, not such a
thing.
So you had to know how todefend yourself, and I remember
getting in a fight with an olderguy I was 13, 14 years old, a

(04:59):
guy that was 25 years old.

Joe (05:01):
Oh, wow.

Leo (05:01):
Beat me badly and I knew some karate right, but the
karate didn't work.
Oh man, well, I end up gettingbeat right and one of my friends
neighbor.
He told me Leo, this karatething didn't work.
You need technique.
That don't require power andall that, you need to learn the

(05:25):
leverage.
And he gave me a ride to ajiu-jitsu school to introduce me
to jiu-jitsu and then he wasmaking fun the whole way driving
.
He's like Leo, you need tolearn jiu-jitsu, man, this
karate don't work right.
Well, it's a big difference inage.
You're beating a teenager, youknow.

(05:46):
But yeah, I end up training JiuJitsu by his influence and also
my brother.
My brother started training JiuJitsu before me, but I didn't
give too much attention.
You know, my brother was alwaysdoing his stuff, I was doing my
stuff.
He's been five years older thanme, so it's a different, uh

(06:06):
group of yeah people right.
But then I started trainingjiu-jitsu.
Uh, and first week was so hardbecause back in my time was not
a teenager class or kids class,was adult class.
And I remember stepping on themat the instructor showed me,

(06:27):
rear naked, choke from the back,how to open close guard.
He looked at me.
He said man, good luck, I hopeyou don't get hurt.

Joe (06:38):
That was my first week in BJJ oh wow, that's a lot
different than mine.

Leo (06:43):
Well, in the first week I end up with a broken nose.
But I didn't quit and Iremember, like I remember I'm
putting pressure on my dad Backthen, the geese was expensive To
buy me a gi like I didn't eventry, I was like no, I need this
for my life, I can't walk afraidanymore, you know.

(07:04):
And then broken nose, but Ikeep working, keep working and
competition.
Later on I start competingafter friends challenging me hey
, competition it's different,you know, it's the real pressure
, pressure.
And then I start competing forfun, end up winning uh, the

(07:26):
state tournament was a big dealback then.
And then I start my competitioncareer over there yeah, yes.

Joe (07:34):
So one thing comes to mind.
So I've only competed in theatlanta ibjjf opens in brazil.
In those state tournaments arethey similar or?

Leo (07:45):
is it?
More like a culture like they,state tournament would be bigger
than Atlanta.
Atlanta open is the peoplearound the area right?
So a state tournament wouldcatch the whole state, all the
cities, in one tournament okay,okay so back in the late 90s,
early 2000s was there were notmany tournaments a year.

(08:08):
There were maybe two or three.
So it was a very hardtournament For you to have an
idea back in the days.
To compete in the WorldChampionship you had to earn
your spot.
Nowadays they're doing it.
Nowadays they bring it back,but only for black belts.
Back in the days it was forevery belt.

(08:29):
So you have to have yourwinnings.
You have to be a state winner,you have to be a national winner
or a Pan American winner toqualify to compete in the World
Championship.
Oh, wow, I would not say awinner, but the top three.
You have to earn this spot.
You have to be a podium, butkeep in mind you've got to have

(08:49):
like five or six fights, yeah,so it was a big deal back in the
day, Like hey you're going tocompete in the world
championship.
Like you have to earn.

Joe (08:57):
You're not competing, you have to earn.
Yeah versus someone like maybegoing to Master Worlds and have
three people in their bracketand just have a really good day
as a blue belt or something.

Leo (09:07):
So back in the days was everything in Brazil, so a lot
of good guys in Brazil.
I bet we could have way morechampions, but they can afford
traveling.
Sometimes they have visaproblems coming to a different
country, so at least in thelower belts I feel it was more
competitive.
But the US nowadays the worldhas been here since 2007.

(09:32):
It's catching up.
Maybe it's the same levelnowadays or better.

Joe (09:38):
The black belts that started their training in Brazil
that I've talked to.
Even when I travel for business, I go to different places and
have conversations and some oftheir stories are similar to
yours.
Like they came in to BJJ, tojujitsu, because like it was
almost a survival thing, like Ihave to do this to survive.

(10:00):
And it's so funny because I'vealways thought about, oh man,
brazil would be a nice place togo.
But here I am, this white guyfrom Georgia, rodrigo, says I'm
getting mugged day one probablythere.
But no, he was saying some ofthe same stuff about we were
fighting on the streets, you hadto be able to fight and to

(10:22):
defend yourself.
Versus how I came into it,where my kids just decided he
didn't want to do it anymore andI didn't want to stiff them
with a contract.
So I said I'll go try it.
Right, I didn't have to do itbecause I was and I did 17 and
all of this other stuff, but Ididn't have the sense of the

(10:47):
ability to protect myself as Ido now doing jiu-jitsu.
So that's awesome to hear thatcoming from you.
That's a legitimate reason.
A lot of people over there getinto it, or at least did.
What would you say are some ofthe biggest challenges and
hurdles in those early stages,uh, that you faced, I would

(11:08):
imagine, because you a lot ofour listeners may obviously may
not have seen you.
You're a pretty tall guy, um,and I would imagine that karate
that was an advantage, but whatwere some of these challenges
and hurdles that you may havehad?
the challenging yeah, just like.
Maybe you know when you madethose first six months where you

(11:29):
were just like oh man, I don't,I don't know.

Leo (11:31):
If you know, I'm gonna make it through this right yeah, the
biggest challenge for me wasthe strength this strength.
I was 13 years old trainingwith men and back back in the
days the culture in jiu-jitsuwas being jacked strong right
technique was 50.
You know nowadays you see guysway more technical than back in

(11:53):
the days.
Back in the days they rely alot in strength and I didn't
have that strength I was a kid,I had to develop my technique.
That's why I always emphasize alot in technique, Like even if
I'm exhausted.
I can keep up a good fight.
Because, I always have thatphilosophy of technique over

(12:15):
strength and conditioning.
Obviously, in the high level,strength and conditioning will
make a difference, but if youare basic technique, you rely
more on technique.

Joe (12:24):
you're gonna be a better athlete yeah, I think that's one
of the things I love the mostabout jiu-jitsu.
So I'm 5'11, maybe 188, 190pounds.
Um, literally everybody in myuh alliance roswell is stronger
than me.
Yeah, we have a lot of I mean,you know that the kind of the
demographics of our our gym.

(12:44):
It's a heavy white belt but alot of I mean you know the kind
of the demographics of our gym.
It's a heavy white belt, but alot of young guys.
You know 21 to maybe 30.
So the fact that you knowtechnique can give you some type
of advantage over strength.
It's been amazing for me and itlets me know I'm in the right
martial arts.

Leo (13:04):
Yeah, I always have students reaching up to me.
You know, man, this is hard.
You know, like I'm a small guy,and I look and I say I know
what's being a small guy.
I start this young, not alwaysbeing 6'3", 230 pounds.

Joe (13:20):
Yeah.

Leo (13:21):
I've been a small guy and I know what you're facing.
I know the difficulty, you know, yeah, and I started when I guy
and I know what you're facing.
I know the difficulty, you know.

Joe (13:26):
Yeah, and I started when I was, so I have a 13-year-old, so
I have a 26-year-old, a13-year-old, a 12-year-old, a
10-year-old and a 7-year-oldright, it's a big family.

Huge man and my 13-year-old, because he takes
after his mom's side.
Is I mean?

Joe (13:48):
he's five, nine, 140 pounds , so he's going to be bigger
than me, right?
Yes, um, and we have, you know,not sure where I'm going with
this, but we have in, uh, ourgym, a guy his name is marco,
and have you, have you ever metmarco?
You may have, you may not have,but uh, he is probably five,
six and all of 135, 140 pounds,dominating pretty much all of us

(14:13):
.
Wow, there's only a few thatcan even control him.
I mean his guards, almostimpossible to pass.
And you know, he's white belt,four stripe, been trained.
Yeah, he, he's white belt, fourstripe.
Wow, yeah, he's.
So it's.
I love, yeah, I just love thataspect about jiu-jitsu it's
technique-focused and I thinkthat's, you know where its

(14:37):
foundations kind of came from inthat, hey, this is a martial
art that the bigger guy can winor the smaller guy can win,
right?

Leo (14:45):
Yep.

Joe (14:47):
So let's talk about some.
You know mentorship and growth.
You're uniquely positioned totalk about this because you know
of being trained under.
You know Fabio, a legendaryfigure in jujitsu, and can you
share a little bit maybe, howhis mentorship influenced your
approach and anybody else thatyou kind of want to call out

(15:09):
whose mentorship has made a bigimpact on your, your journey?

Leo (15:13):
yeah, fabio had a huge impact, especially in the
competition career.
I would say in the competitioncareer he has.
The biggest impact for me onthe teaching career that I take
separately was our master jacare, so I thought with jacare with
him for a few years.
So that that's a differentapproaching teaching and

(15:35):
competing.
But for competition, uh,training under Fabio was amazing
.
Every day, every training was aseminar.
You're learning techniques.
That I was like wow, you know.
Nowadays I see people, theinformation is so easy.

You Google?

Leo (15:57):
YouTube BJJ Fanatics.
But back then was not any ofthat right, so you have to rely
on seminars and classes.
Any of that right.
So you have to rely on seminarsand classes.
So every class was a seminarand also every class was the
world championship.
Back in my generation, Ibelieve to this day, we had the
best crew at alliance trainingin a mat.

(16:21):
In the one mat was me, bernardo.

Joe (16:25):
Bruno.

Leo (16:25):
Balfacine, michael Lange, tarsus Humphries, antonio
Peinado, many, many greatathletes.
So every role was a final Wowand Fabio keeps everything super
competitive, right?
I remember, in order to competethe Open, you have to train,

(16:49):
like that month.
You have to train, you have tohave a perfect run, training the
whole month.
And he would not tell us whowould represent Elias in the
Open class division.
He would tell one night beforeWow.
So that was his way of keepingus in check.
Yeah, you know like stayprepared.

(17:10):
You have to stay prepared alwaysgazing our best in technique,
strength and conditioning,discipline, showing up like in
on time and things like thatthat's probably.

Joe (17:22):
I would imagine that can be a little bit frustrating for
you sometimes now seeing how nowit's kind of a lot of hobbyists
that kind of come in too and itmay not be the case here at
headquarters but I know you know, throughout other gyms.
A lot of gyms are very hobbyistheavy, if you have every gym,

(17:42):
every gym, every gym is hobbyistheavy.

Leo (17:45):
It's like three percent, yeah, every gym where it used to
be different right well, yes,yes, uh, but the growth of
jujitsu is because of thehobbyist that.
That's what keeps jujitsu aliveyeah right, because the
competitor have a short careerright after his 30s is gonna

(18:06):
slow down, and then he eitherbecome a hobbyist or he quit.

Joe (18:11):
Yeah, that's that's the struggle I face.
Like I think it's probably thebiggest struggle I'm facing
right now and in my journey isis how much I want to focus on
like competing, because you know, I I told you before we started
recording I started at 42, onlybeen training maybe, well,
let's see.
Did this April make two years?

(18:32):
I think this April made twoyears.
Blue belt how I'm not going togo and win a world champion as
far as, like, in the adultdivision.
I'm not going to be and win aworld champion as far as, like,
you know, in the adult division,right, I'm not going to be a
black belt, probably till my 50s, right, uh, so it's, you know
how much time and effort do Iwant to put into it?

(18:54):
I love it, I love the, uh, thepreparation, I love going to an
open, the atmosphere, and youknow I it's, I've become kind of
addicted to it.
So I'm like a borderlinehobbyist competitor and I'm
trying to figure out which waydo I go?

Leo (19:12):
I think everyone, everyone, have that passion to compete
and all that.
It's still very competitive,master Division, because you're
going against guys that do thesame thing as you.
They have a normal job and theytrain as hard as they can right
, go to the gym, uh, trainingjiu-jitsu four or five times a

(19:32):
week, three times a week, itdepends, right, yeah, but they
all train hard and the same, onthe same rules, right, they have
their work, they have theirfamily yeah, they train yeah
right, the the difference of theprofessional guy that he don't
have a family.
Most of the time, if he's reallyprofessional, he's living away
from his family.

(19:52):
Yeah, um, he don't have anyhobbies besides jiu-jitsu right
and that that's it, you know.
And he make money doingjiu-jitsu.
That that's how his income,that's how he makes his living,
sponsors and tournaments and allthat.

Joe (20:10):
Right right.

Leo (20:11):
So the commitment is a little bit deeper on the adult,
but that's his main job.
On the masters, they have acommitment but they have other
side jobs and things like that.
Right Right, they have acommitment but they have other
side jobs and things like that.
Right, right.
But I believe the master guysometimes works just as hard, or
sometimes harder than theprofessional guy, because the

(20:31):
professional guy don't have toworry about his kids, his wife,
pay mortgage and things likethat.

Joe (20:38):
Yeah, yeah, think about the guys on what is it?
Daisy Fresh, where they justkind of all live in a?
Yeah, his only worry is gettingbetter in jiu-jitsu.

Leo (20:49):
Yeah he's not worried about anything else.
I'm not saying it's yeah, it'seasy, no, it's not easy.
But yeah, I don't want to takethe credit away from the master
guys that sometimes work eighthours a day and, oh yeah, still
have energy to train and that'slike impressive, like a strong.
Will you know to train that?
I gave the guys a lot of creditfor that.

Joe (21:12):
Like it's impressive yeah, you all have here, uh, the, the
executive class and that'sthat's made up of a lot of kind
of professional guys and I know,uh, even at our alliance
location, we have people fromall walks of life.
Some are young and single anddon't have any really the family
commitments that you're talkingabout, and they do.
They tend to train, you knowmore, some of them a couple

(21:34):
times a day, and then you know,we have a nurse, we have a
doctor, we have a CEO thattrains there we have, you know,
their life is just swamped right.
So, no, it's encouraging tohear.
So we're talking a little bitabout competition.
Let's kind of move into some ofyour competitions.
Uh, over the years you'vecompeted at you know, the
highest level, uh competitionsthat that one could probably

(21:57):
compete at.
Could you maybe talk us throughand highlight maybe one or two
of your most memorable matchesfor you and kind of explain what
really made them memorable foryou?

Leo (22:09):
Well, I have a few, quite a few right, but the one that
teach me a lesson for the wholelife of like never giving up was
my Worlds as a brown belt 2008.
I had a serious injury on thesemifinal, torn the ligaments of
my knee in a brown belt 2008.
I had a serious injury on thesame final, torn the ligaments
of my knee in a takedown.

(22:29):
I want to fight the same finals, but they still have the finals
.
And I was like how in the hellin the world are gonna fight, uh
, with one leg?
But it was my first tournamentin the US and I was like, and I
still paying my ticket.
I put in the credit card.

(22:50):
I said, hey, let's go, let'ssee what's going to happen.
And I had that in mind.
I said, wow, all this time ofinvestment, training and still
paying for the ticket.
I said you know what?
I'm already here, my knee'salready gone.
I have nothing to lose.
And know what?
I'm already here, my knee isalready gone.
That's it, nothing to lose.
And a miracle happened I wonthe world with one leg in the
final.
I can't believe to this day.

Joe (23:12):
But the biggest lesson is like never give up of your
dreams, even if it seemsimpossible do you remember how
you won it, like kind of whatstrategy you had to protect the
knee and still Did you win bysubmission or points?

Leo (23:24):
I knew I won by points.
I knew the guy would try to getmy hurt leg.
I knew he saw I was limping andcould not walk.
I knew his strategy would getthat leg and I based my fight on
defending that leg.
I knew he would fall on thebottom trying to attack the leg.
I would come up and score mypoints.

Joe (23:42):
Wow.

Leo (23:43):
That's how I won.
But all strategy that fight I Ito this day.

Joe (23:49):
I can't explain I still can't believe you won that one.

Leo (23:53):
Yeah, that was the first one.
That's very marble, memorable.
Uh, uh, fight pro.
Probably that uh gave me likeencouragement in my career was
my first big win on black beltwith the Brazilian National
Absolute Division.
I beat Márcio Pedipano, who wasa hero, a two-time absolute

(24:16):
world champion.
When I started white belt Ibought a jiu-jitsu magazine.
Guess who was on the cover Him.

Joe (24:23):
Him.

Leo (24:24):
Him beating Roger Gracie, wow.
And when I got my black belt hewas there.
I was like I can't believe I'mgoing to fight this guy.
What am I going to do?
You know, I grew up like beingexpired by these champions, you
know, and I end up winning.
That was like I was like I cando this.

(24:48):
You know, I can be one of thoseguys.
And that definitely changed mycareer.
And in the same year I won thattournament, opened the Pandora
box for me.
I started winning bigtournaments.
After that Brazilian National,I win Worlds, and then I win
european and then I winpan-american.

(25:09):
That was the, the fight thatgave me a inspiration for
everything.

Joe (25:14):
Like I can do this, yeah yeah, I've watched all your
fights that the ones that are onyoutube and that that I can
find online they're just,they're just amazing.
The um one thing that that I'vealways online they're just,
they're just amazing.
The um one thing that that I'vealways been impressed with with
watching in your fights is onethe level of the competitors
that you're, you're, you'reagainst.
I mean, I think you've trainedwith our buchesha.

(25:35):
Did you fight with buchesha?

Leo (25:36):
yeah, yeah, we used to train together back.
Wow, same team, before I becomealliance wow, before I become a
Lance.

Joe (25:43):
Wow, that's just you know, but it's the intensity, the
speed.
Bernardo Fier, he's anotherinfluence of mine.
I've been working a lot on halfguard.
I've told you about and it'sjust the intensity of y'all's
matches.
I get stuck on the bottom, Istop moving and one thing I

(26:05):
notice is like you know, you andother black belts, and just
you'll never stop moving andtrying to advance and I just
love watching those fights.
So it's good to hear, it'sreally cool to hear you talk
about you know kind of whereyour mindset was in these fights
and I don't think I knew thatabout your knee in that fight.

Leo (26:22):
Yeah, that knee fight was two years before my biggest win
in black belt.
That taught me a lot you don'tgive up, even even if I lose.

Joe (26:32):
I was training next day how long did it take you to recover
from the that?
I mean, how did you have totake a year off, did you?

Leo (26:38):
if I can be completely honest with you, to this day I
don't have a surgery, sosometimes my knee, my knees,
still bother me, you know I hadto go in 10 doctors to one say,
hey, you might have a chance ifyou do rehab and all that.
But if you see my name,everybody that know me know like
how loses my leg and all that.

(27:00):
That's why I I adapt my game,uh, on passing guard only on the
knees, like the san paulo pass.
So was the reason I startpassing that way was through my
necessities, right injury andall that to protect my leg.

Joe (27:16):
Yeah, I uh, I, I do, uh.
One of the reasons I focus onon half guard and attacks from
closed guard that's kind of mygame is because of my knees as
well.
As I mentioned, I was in themilitary but I was also a
paratrooper, so I jumped out ofairplanes and I had an injury
where my main chute didn't openall the way.

(27:37):
Well, it opened and then itcollapsed and I burned in from
like 100 feet and just messed upmy knees, knocked me out,
really caused a lot of injuries,and this was when I was
probably like 24.
I'll be 45 this year and samething still this day.

(27:57):
I've never had any knee surgerylike replacement.
So I'm 45, but probably have80-year-old knees and so I have
to adapt too.
Right, I love lasso guard, butI can't play it a lot because
not so much the grips but thepressure it puts on the knee to
hold.

Leo (28:15):
Yeah, you twist.

Joe (28:17):
And even to sweep them.
I only do Della Eva to get intodeep half or to sweep.
I don't stay in these guards,right, and I very seldom shoot
for takedowns and stuff likethat.
So I'm a guard puller.
I catch a lot of heck from that, from the the guys, but it is
what it is.

(28:37):
Be who you are right, yep, um,so we're talking techniques.
Uh, I know, and a lot of peoplewho know you know you're famous
for the sao paulo pass.
What, what is it called inbrazil?
It's not sao paulo pass, whatis it called?

Leo (28:48):
it's a few names.
Uh a guy that make this famouswas uh three guys I first seen
doing was tozy okay, yeah, a lotof guys called tozy pass.
I see, uh, professor godoy, uhdoing that and uh, back bosa, uh
, a guy that famous guys in jiujitsu that beat harley gracey

(29:10):
back in the days.
I saw those guys doing and butI didn't have the strength to do
it and I had.
I had a few changes on thetechnique, a few adaptations for
for the size and strength andall that right but basically,
the course, the position is thesame right.

Joe (29:29):
so you, you, you kind of answered this question already,
but just kind of want to peelsome layers back on it, so you
kind of moved to the Sao PauloPass because of your knees.
It was a really effective wayof opening the guard.

Leo (29:43):
Yes, yes, I started doing Sao Paulo Pass since I was blue
belt but I didn't use much.
But I always had a thought inmy mind if I hurt my leg during
a match or in the week of thetournament, how can I pass the
guard from my knees?
You know, I always have thosethoughts in Jiu Jitsu, like if I

(30:06):
cannot use this arm, what I do,you know, I always work my
technique around likeeventualities that can happen,
and that was one.
I was ready, I already had agame, but I used to pass
standing.
But I was like I cannot passstanding anymore.
It's not reliable.
So I start emphasizing more onpassing on the knees.

Joe (30:31):
Yeah.

Leo (30:32):
But I had the game already prepared.
I just gave a few refinementsand touches as a brown to black.

Joe (30:42):
So in your seminars you teach those variations and to
all the listeners I highlyrecommend any chance you can get
to one of Professor Nogueira'sseminars.
You do Out of those variations.
I know them because I was atyour last seminar.
But is there any favoritevariation?
I can tell you my favorite isthe trap the arm underneath, gi

(31:06):
or no gi and then pass where youdo the shoulder crunch.
But do you have one that worksthe best or do you just kind of
measure up your opponent at thetime and what he's giving you?

Leo (31:16):
well, that's my philosophy of fighting.
Is not what I want is what theygave to me, so I don't have one
.
That's like the ultimate pass.
I have a few right I have a fewfew that I like, but I don't
get to choose.
It's whatever is available andthat's not only for passing,

(31:36):
it's from everywhere.
That's my philosophy offighting.
That's what I try to teach mystudents.
You have a few options, youbuild up a few options.
I try to predict what you'regoing to do after I initiate and
that's how I fight.

Joe (31:55):
Yeah, that's something I need to work on.
It's probably from myinexperiences.
I try to force what I want.
I try to like.
I just told you, my favoritevariation is the one you teach,
where you push them down, grabthem from behind and draw them
on their shoulder.
I mean, you know what I'mtalking to, but I just try to
set that up from everywhere.

Leo (32:19):
But if I can't get their elbow on the mat, why am I
trying that?
Right, obviously I have a core.
Right you have.
You gotta have a start point.
I cannot be passive awaitingthe guy fight.
Right, I have a core and Iwould say my favorite is the
most basic on the hook, walk tothe side, switch my base, push
the legs open.
That's the core and from Istart fighting from there.
Right, but yeah, I I like tokeep everything like basic and

(32:42):
simple.

Joe (32:42):
Anyone can do my jiu-jitsu white belt, a training three
months can fight, like me yeah,one of the reasons I continue to
be a huge follower and fan is,um, not just the Sao Paulo pass
technique, because I think it'san amazing way to open guard.
But you're big into half guard.
You know, on BJJ Fanatics youhave the half guard encyclopedia

(33:04):
.
I'm working through it for thesecond time.
But what drew you to half guardand focusing on that?

Leo (33:15):
Well, I think what drew me to half guard was since a young
age I play open guard and theguys pass my guard in two
seconds they grab my leg, throwto the side.
I was like I started playinghalf guard just to keep control,
keep the guy from passing myguard fast.
Obviously, before I developedthe half guard, they smashed me

(33:36):
right.
They controlled, they squeezed,but at least they take like a
good minute to pass right.
I could hold the guy in theposition and I was like you know
, but I have to make this work,like I can't be smashed, but at
least it's not fast.
That's how I started playinghalf guard, mainly to slow down
my opponent and then later on Imake my half guard more

(34:01):
offensive.
Obviously I had inspirations.
My first instructor, tecoshinzato, roberto correa gordo.
That's the half guard, absolutemaster of the half guard.
This is the number one.
Number one half guard, robertoCorrea.
Wow.

Joe (34:21):
The half guard master.

Leo (34:23):
Yes, any half guard guy with integrity will tell you the
truth.
He is the guy.
And then later on, I starteddeveloping, watched a few other
guys that play half guard, Istarted creating my own style in
half guard and that's how itwent, you know.
I take inspiration from a fewguys and start doing my own

(34:46):
touches in the position anddevelop.

Joe (34:50):
That's exactly why I transitioned to wanting to learn
, you know, studying half guardand working on it.
It's because my open guard itwas nothing.
I mean people were passing itlike I wasn't doing anything.
I can't play open guard my knee, maybe my age, I'm not a very
athletic person, yeah.
So I have to immediately lockpeople down.
And when I first startedstudying half guard, I started

(35:13):
studying.
I started studying some ofBernardo's things.
He's very offensive with hishalf guard, but with my half
guard I'm almost always on thebottom.
I don't always stay to the side.
People are on top of me.
You show a lot of techniques on.
Okay, if you are flat, it's notover.
You can get out of this.
You can get back to offense,and I think that's one of the

(35:38):
things that I'm getting the mostout of your training, your
instructionals and your approachis how okay you're in a bad
position in half guard right now.
It's not the best one, but thisis how you're going to get out
of it A lot of sweeps I'velearned.

Leo (35:54):
Yeah, when I started recording that instructionals
one but this is how you're goingto get out of it a lot of
sweeps I've learned.
So, yeah, when I startrecording that instruction, I
was thinking about someone thathad no strength, uh, not
athletic, and an older guy andeverything on the helms of.
Uh, reality, right?
No, nothing fancy, nothingcrazy.
Uh, I call encyclopedia becauseI show the most efficient

(36:19):
techniques in half guard.
Obviously that's not all thetechniques ever, but in my
opinion is the most effectivetechniques in half guard that
anyone, any size, can do it.
Some of the techniques that Isee people show require you
being super flexible invertingyour neck and all that.

(36:39):
That's not realistic foreveryone.
I try to create a universalmethodology for everyone, in any
age, any size.

Joe (36:50):
So I put a lot of thought in that instructional, a lot of
hard work yeah, this is, uh, youknow, when I do podcasts,
especially with with people thatyou know I really want to learn
more about and, and, you know,get to know, um, you get, you
get to pick up on a lot of thecharacteristics that made them
really good at.

(37:10):
You know jujitsu and life andwhat they do, and one of the
things that's standing out inour conversation is you've
always seemed to adapt jujitsuto you and to what fits you and
and I would imagine that showsup a lot in like your training
regime.
So let's spend a couple, youknow, minutes or so talking

(37:31):
about really two, two questions.
I have One.
Let's say you were preparing for, uh, your next competition,
where it be worlds.
What have you?
You know what?
What would be your, your kindof training regime?
Uh, what you know, would you be?
Obviously it'd be a mix of, youknow, weight training and

(37:52):
jujitsu.
But and then also we have herein alliance a lot of world
champions, a lot even here inheadquarters.
At the last worlds we had, howmany world champions did we have
in across the belts?
Do you remember?
I know we had three.
We had three right from hereyes, right here, yeah um, so.

(38:15):
So we, the instructors, the, thecoaches, are obviously doing
something right.
So what would you say if youhave, let's say, blue Belt who
is training for their firstMaster World or World?
What kind of would be some ofthe training regime for them?
So you first, what would youfocus on?

(38:36):
How do you approach it?
And then how do you approach itwith, say, your competition
team going into Worlds?

Leo (38:42):
I think the mental part is very underestimated for most
people.
They focus on technique, theyfocus on diet, they focus on
weightlifting, but they forgetthe most important thing is your
mind.
Your mind is the most importantthing.
Is your mind, your mind is mostimportant thing.
In the competition comes a lotof athletes, the top 10.

(39:04):
They're the basically the samelevel.
The only thing taking thoseguys apart is the mindset, their
focus.
So one thing that I stronglyrecommend you, if you're gonna
compete, you start trainingyourself is your mind, training
thoughts.
You have a bad thought coming.

(39:26):
Start thinking about somethingpositive every day.
Train yourself every day.
Train yourself even duringrolling somebody pass a guard.
It's not the end of the world.
Set your mind okay, I have achance to escape, I'm going to
win.
Always positive.
Never, if always, when right.

(39:48):
So mindset is very importantyou visualizing you recovering
from bad situations, winning,even losing, learning what makes
you lose, what can you improve,you know.
But every day, every day, havepositive thoughts and visualize

(40:08):
you fighting, you escaping badsituations, you overcoming
problems.
And during a camp, many thingscan go wrong in the week of the
tournament if you injureyourself.
I win many tournaments withinjuries or I was sick like a
day before, and what made me winwas my mindset.

(40:31):
I was prepared.
I was not caught by surprise.
I'm always expecting somethingto go wrong, but I've been
working that in my mind.
I'm being prepared for that.
So I think that, um, that'swhat this depreciating, uh, the
very top athletes against, likesomeone that's coming up good

(40:52):
but it's missing something and Isee a lot of guys going for,
like uh, doctors, right, uh theuh how you guys call over here,
um, like a mentor, uh that gaveyou advice, like uh console oh
right yeahand a lot of those consoles.

(41:15):
They never done that before.
They.
They don't have the experience.
They're just going to saythings to make you feel good,
but that's not the truth.
Sometimes what you need is thetruth, and the truth sometimes
is not nice.
Right, and I gave myself like.
What helped me isself-confirmation.
Right, I have to trainjiu-jitsu three hours.

(41:40):
I've done it.
Checklist my brain.
No, you've done what you haveto do.
You've done your conditioning.
Yes, you've done your diet.
Yes.
So my level of confidence on theday of the tournament is super
high.
But why?
Because I keep myself in checkevery day.
I know I've done everything inmy power to achieve my goal.

(42:04):
But at the same time, if Islack a little bit, even a
little bit, my mind will goagainst me.
Hey, you didn't put the work,my friend.
You didn't put the work youdon't deserve.
You didn't put the work, myfriend, you didn't put the work
you don't deserve.
But when I put the work to theextreme, like, I have that

(42:25):
self-belief of earning.
No, you deserve that.
Nobody works harder than you.
Maybe the same.
Maybe the same Because you'renot that special, it's more
people like you.
Right, maybe the same.
You're not that special.
It's more people like you,right, maybe the same but not
more not more, yeah, so I thinkthat that was my.
That's what makes me differentthan most, most guys yeah, I

(42:49):
feel like you.

Joe (42:50):
You were just my counselor.
There is somebody who ispreparing for the atlanta open
in september.
That that's amazing, and I'veheard it said too that you can
talk yourself into a win and youcan talk yourself into a loss,
right.

Leo (43:02):
Yes.

Joe (43:04):
And you know, I think that's what happened in my very
first competition.
At least a month, and from thatmonth all the way up to
competition day, the only thingI was focused on and and I kept
saying, well, the only thing Iwant is to not get beat fast,
not get beat fast, not get beatfast.
The guy beat me in 35 seconds Ihad that to happen because I

(43:27):
just thought about that.
That's all I focused on.
I didn't focus on anything.
I didn't, you know?
Uh, rodrigo was break the grip,break the right, and I, to this
day, I've never gotten caughtin in that, never got caught in
training or anything, but Ithink I talked myself into a
loss yeah, it's something funnyabout me.

Leo (43:47):
I never thought about winning the tournament.
In general, my thought was innot losing.
Yeah Right, every fight was thefinal, every fight was the
final.
So obviously the risotto is aconsequence of not losing.
But I've seen many guysoverwhelmed about certain

(44:10):
competitions.
They go oh man, maybe I'm goingto fight the Naga or any local
tournament instead of theAutonom Open they fear the name
IBJJF, because it's qualitytournament, high-level athletes,
right.
But you're not fighting againstthe tournament, you're fighting
people.
That's in the tournament.

(44:30):
So I don't care if I gonnafight the local tournament over
here next block or to fight theworld championship in Las Vegas.
For me it's the same.
I'm going to have the samemindset, fighting local or
fighting internationally.
I'm fighting people and I willbe prepared to fight anyone.

(44:52):
It doesn't matter the level.
Right, never underestimateanyone.
A white belt can grab my neckand a guillotine and put me to
tap.
So, yeah, you should neverunderestimate anyone and treat a
fight with respect.
Put your time and training andmake sure you've done everything

(45:12):
you could.
Don't give yourself excuses.

Joe (45:15):
Yeah, I think that's one thing I've been doing well in my
career is anybody that I'mtraining with or rolling with.
I give them the respect.
It doesn't matter if they'vebeen training for two weeks,
three weeks, what have you?
Yeah, just like you said,anybody can catch anybody,
anybody can catch anybody.

Leo (45:31):
Yes, I, I always tell my students, hey, nothing is
impossible.

Joe (45:35):
I don't think I'll ever catch Rodrigo, though I don't
think I'll ever catch him.

Leo (45:42):
It's not impossible.

Joe (45:43):
He is so gosh, he's still tapping me to pressure Gosh,
he's a big guy, he is not onlybig, he also has a really good
technique for his size.
Yes.
Rodrigo is a guy that's verytechnical and he's always
studying jiu-jitsu.
He really loves jiu-jitsu, yeah,I think that's why he and I
have bonded so much.
Uh, you know, during during mytime there, I count him as one

(46:07):
of my best friends is.
We're always studying, we'realways watching.
On the weekends I'm watching,you know, tournaments on flow
grappling.
You know I'm obviously doingthe bJ Fanatics.
He gives me a hard time aboutthat because he probably thinks
I watch it too much, but I'mgoing to keep watching.

Leo (46:23):
Yes, that's always good.
I always encourage my guys towatch.
But I always tell what's thereputation of the guy you watch.
He says the same exact thing.

Joe (46:33):
What is the?

Leo (46:33):
reputation of the guy you watch.
Make sure you watch fromsomeone that has a good
reputation and results right.
Not only reputation by talking,but show your work.
If the guy's a non-competitor,he's only a coach who he produce
.

Joe (46:47):
Who's?

Leo (46:48):
the guys he make win.
Okay, you don't need to be achampion to be a good coach.
You need to produce people.
That's fair proof, right yeah?

Joe (46:58):
As they say here in Georgia , my grandmother, or I call her
my granny, that's what we sayhere in Georgia.
The proof is in the puddingright.
It's what's coming out of theschool.
It's also the mentality and, Ithink, the community of the
school too right, the culture ofthe school.

(47:18):
And it has to be a goodenvironment and I've been really
lucky to train in really goodenvironments.
But then when I travelsometimes I'll go to these
different, maybe not mainstreamgyms to train and you can tell
there's a little bit of yeahcockiness and egos and things

(47:41):
like that.
There I've been lucky not tohave that.
So, uh, let's see.
So about how you know, a littleover halfway through the
conversation here got a couplemore sections I want to cover
with you and let's pivot kind ofaway from competition.
Um, at some point in yourcareer you you decided, you know
, maybe I'm going to slow downfrom competing and I'm going to
start teaching.

(48:01):
Can you talk?

Leo (48:02):
uh, talk us a little bit from that transitioning from a
high level competitor into, hey,you know what I want to coach,
and then your journey into thehead head professor here at at
alliance yeah, I think that's anatural curve for an athlete
that want to live with Jiu-Jitsu, right, Want to make Jiu-Jitsu
as a living, you have to be aninstructor or a business owner

(48:26):
of a school and things like that.
I start teaching early as apurple belt but teach class one
here, one there nothing likeevery day, right, I started
really teaching every day when Imoved to the US.
In Brazil, I used to coverclasses here and there, but

(48:47):
private lessons always beenteaching private lessons.
But I really started becomingbetter at teaching when I moved
here to the headquarters Withthe guidance of our master,
Romero Jacare Cavalcanti.
He taught me everything I knowabout teaching.
When did you move to the US?
In 2013.
So I started teaching here atthe headquarters in 2015.

Joe (49:11):
Okay, so a couple years after you, yes, and every day.

Leo (49:16):
I was teaching with Master Jacare Every single day.
Wow, even the way I learnedeverything.
I try to do everything the wayhe likes, like the way he
prepare people, the way heprepare people to compete, and
all that.
So he was my inspiration in theteaching area and that's a

(49:39):
whole new world.
Don't mean you have goodachievements in jiu-jitsu.
Being a world champion willmake you a good instructor.
That's a totally differentroute.
Obviously it will help you havea reputation of being good.
That will help you right.
But if you're learning a newskill from the beginning dealing

(50:02):
with people, talking,communicating the way you learn
is a different way that that guyover there will learn.
And then you face challenges ofbody types, right, sometimes
you want to teach like inversionguard and that guy cannot
invert and you have to adaptyour classes to be enjoyable for

(50:24):
everyone.
Everyone have to take goodexperience and you learn that
from years of teaching.

Joe (50:32):
What do you find most rewarding about coaching?
And also what do you find mostrewarding about coaching, and
also what do you find mostchallenging.

Leo (50:39):
The most rewarding is changing people's lives.
That's so rewarding Seeing aguy that was shy, low confidence
, and seeing that guy becomesomething you know, become a
champion or become moreconfident on his job.
I had many, many good feedbacks.
I have guys with problem withbeing claustrophobic and now

(51:03):
this guy is a fireman, you know,he's like rescuing people from
fires, but that guy was aclaustrophobic guy, you know.
And I had a guy that was reallybad in communicating group in
large groups, and now he's a CEOof a company and things like
that.
That's like amazing.

(51:23):
A guy that could never win anymedal in his whole life and
nowadays he's a world champion.
Wow, that's for me, it'searning that.
It's bigger than I win atournament Nowadays.
If I win one more tournament,for me it will be one more medal
.
But if I produce someone thatachieves something don't need to

(51:45):
be a championship, achievesomething in life, maybe a job
promotion, things like that Iget happy for my students.

Joe (51:54):
Yeah, that's amazing.
What about some challenges?
What do you think are thebiggest challenges?

Leo (52:00):
I think the biggest challenge we face, especially
when the guys start, it's theSome schools gave the guy the
wrong view of Jiu-JitsuJiu-Jitsu being violent or
Jiu-Jitsu being too hard.
The way we teach students overhere from day one it's like step
by step, little by little,always encouraging the student.

(52:23):
I've seen guys like oh man, Ihave to get in shape to train
jiu-jitsu.
That's not such a thing.
Start training jiu-jitsu, getin shape as you train jiu-jitsu.
I think a lot of guys have thatmind oh, I have to be strong
and fit to train in jiu-jitsu.
And that's not the reality.

Joe (52:41):
So getting past the newcomers' mental blocks and
kind of assumptions of what theyneed to be before they start
training, yes, yes.

Leo (52:51):
Physically, mentally, me myself.
I was very shy in the young age.
I could not talk in public, youknow, oh wow, I had a really
hard time and Jiu Jitsu.
Jiu Jitsu completely changed mylife let's, let's talk about
the community.

Joe (53:08):
We talked a little bit about it and then we're gonna,
you know, play the rapid firegame.
So the, so the community canget to know a little bit more
about you.
One of the things that I lovethe most about jiu-jitsu is the
community.
I'm making lifelong friendshere, connections.
It's changed my life.
Could you kind of talk usthrough how you, as a head

(53:33):
professor, kind of create andfoster that sense of community
here at Alliance?

Leo (53:37):
Well, we share not only jiu-jitsu, but we share our
hobbies on the mat.
It's really a family, right.
I know about the guy's problem,what's happening?
His daughter is going to getmarried, His son is sick, his
dog passed away.
We share hobbies I have a lotof guys that like to hunt and

(53:58):
shoot, some guys that rise liketo race cars and we share our
hobbies and it's a big family.
It's no other place that peopleshare all that belonging and
that's just amazing.
The the community.
It's not only about training,right, it's about the group and

(54:24):
jiu-jitsu.
You can do jiu-jitsu for a verylong time.
You cannot do Muay Thai orboxing for a very long time.
Right the technique allows youto go longer, right, Mm-hmm.
And most of the guys over heretrain over 20 years.
Oh wow, so it's jujitsu forlife.
So it's literally like part ofthe family Holidays we get
together and things like that.

Joe (54:46):
I was watching Fast and Furious that movie series a
while back and I got thinking,wow, it's kind of like how we
are at Alliance.
As well, we're all just kind oflike this family.
It's kind of like how we are atAlliance At Oswell.
We're all just kind of likethis family.
We all kind of share and go tolunch together and things like
that.
So let's go through.
I want to play the rapid-firegame with you here and then

(55:08):
close out with a couple morequestions and then we'll wrap
things up Again.
Thank you so much for this.
But rapid-fire question numberone are you a fan of gi or no gi
?

Leo (55:19):
Gi, Gi.
Yeah, that's my root.
I was hoping you would say thatI start with the gi.
It's my root.
I like no gi, but I have abigger love for the gi.
It's more like tools to useright Colors, more techniques
around the gi.

Joe (55:38):
Yeah, I have to slow people down.
I have to be able to slow themdown and grab something and hold
them.
Favorite submission.

Leo (55:44):
Cross choke, cross choke.
I believe the choke is powerful, right, you choke someone, you
put them on conscience.
If you put a lock, submission,arm bar or knee bar on someone,
they have the option of nottapping and keep fighting.
The choke is the most powerfulsubmission in jiu-jitsu.

(56:05):
It fights over.

Joe (56:07):
Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking back.
You did a lunch kind of hourseminar at Alliance Roswellwell
and you always roll with thestudents after, and the first
time I rolled with you I triedto pass with a folding pass and
you cross choked me.
I remember that now.
Now I know why it was yourfavorite choke.

Leo (56:27):
I was like, wow you choked me, yeah, choke from everywhere
mount.
Oh it was.
It was close guard, open guard,yeah choke is there.

Joe (56:33):
I remember you locked my, uh, my hand in in between your
legs and just it was on, uh, soso are you a morning person,
evening person, do you like thenight live day?
What, what do you?

Leo (56:46):
hi, my evening person, I go to bed late, but that don't
mean I I wake up late, I wake upearly.
I teach classes in the morningbut I morning, but I enjoy my
time in the evening.
I like to train in the evening.
Maybe that's one of the reasonsmy metabolism is fast and
working and that's why I think Ienjoy it.

Joe (57:07):
That's the class you teach.
Is the evening class, is thatcorrect?
I teach?

Leo (57:11):
morning, afternoon and evening full-time.
Oh, all of them.

Joe (57:15):
Okay, all of them, yes, okay.
And afternoon and evening fulltime all of them, okay, okay,
okay.
And hobbies on the outside.
I know we didn't go over totalk a little bit about this
question, but we were standingoutside before we came into the
office and and you were talkingabout one of your hobbies
outside uh, what would you say?

Leo (57:29):
your favorite hobby is right now, right now, is
motorsport uh racing cars on thetrack, not on the street.

Joe (57:37):
On the track, yeah what kind of cars are there?

Leo (57:39):
formula formula light cars street cars, touring cars,
touring cars, a car with 200 300horsepower on the track.
We've been doing some amateurraces.
I have a few students that withme.
We have a team and we race afew of the local events.

Joe (58:01):
Okay, okay, so you have your own car, yes, okay, what
kind of car do you have?

Leo (58:06):
It's a BMW Series 3, modified for track, with a cage
and suspension, a proper trackcar.

Joe (58:16):
Yeah, I've been watching some of your stuff on IG and,
again, I know very little aboutracing, but it looks pretty
addicting.

So yeah, something you can get addicted to so most.

Joe (58:27):
who would you say is your most influential jiu-jitsu
practitioner, the person that'sinfluenced you the most in your
jiu-jitsu career?

Leo (58:36):
I think my professor, the one who gave me the black belt,
Fabio Gorgel, and then MasterJacare.
After right, I have twophilosophers the one who
influenced me to be a competitorwinner and the one who
influenced me to be a greatinstructor.
So those two, Master Romero,Jacare and Fabio, was my biggest

(58:58):
influencer in my career.

Joe (59:00):
Okay, and what's one of your favorite cities to visit
and compete in, besides LasVegas?

Leo (59:06):
Well, I think the one that brought me really good memories
is Lisbon, in Portugal.

Joe (59:14):
Oh, wow.

Leo (59:15):
Yeah, I won the absolute division in that tournament.
But what makes special when Iwalked to the venue was a big
banner with my picture from oneof my sponsors, keiko, that
sells geese, and I was like myfriend, I'm here, right at the
door, everybody sees me, it'sbetter to represent.

(59:37):
And I won the open right at thedoor, everybody sees me, it's
better to represent Wow, and Iwon the Open Class Division in
2013.
So that tournament was veryspecial for me for that reason.
The picture being therePortugal, a country that they
speak Portuguese make the wholething special.

Joe (59:55):
Oh, that had to be an amazing, amazing experience.
I would feel immense pressuretoo if I saw that and like this
huge blow-up poster of me, likeeverybody's there, to see you go
upstairs to go to access thethe tournament.

Leo (01:00:08):
They seen me and I was like well, but I'll lose yeah, yeah
oh, that's crazy.

Joe (01:00:16):
Last question here on the rapid fire.
You know I don't want to keepyou here all day I probably
could, but I know you have abusy schedule.
Who would you most like to rollwith?
This could be past present.
Who is somebody you would liketo go a 10-minute round with?

Leo (01:00:33):
Roger Grace.
You've never rolled with him,never rolled, so I was the first
world champion in his divisionafter he retired from adult.
So I am the first worldchampion after him in his
division and I won two years ina row.
So if you see Roger Gracie, myname is right on the bottom

(01:00:54):
Twice, yeah, roger is verycomplete athlete.
Uh, super technical it's.
It's a dream to to train withhim.

Joe (01:01:04):
I uh, I remember at the last uh one of the seminars or
the lucas leperi seminar atroswell, when you and uh lucas
started kind of going, everybodyjust like sit down and watch.
It's like oh my god it gosh, weshould probably be paying to
watch this.
It was awesome.
I've trained at his place whenI go to Charlotte.

(01:01:24):
It's awesome up there.
That's cool.
I think Rodrigo said the samething, I can't remember when I
asked him.
I think that's somebody that alot of people would like to to
roll train with.
So I'm lucky because I've I'vegotten to roll with the person I
wanted to, with you and um.
So last a couple questions here.

(01:01:46):
Um, you know I I told youbefore, uh, we, we got to
recording at least thatcaffeinated jiu-jitsu.
We like to focus a lot on thosepeople who are thinking about
jiu-jitsu early on in theircareer.
But what advice would you givesomeone who is kind of like
myself, just starting out, andmaybe what beginners should

(01:02:09):
focus on in that first year, 12to 24 months?

Leo (01:02:13):
Beginners should focus on consistency and technique.
Most of the guys startingJiu-Jitsu they focus on winning,
winning, winning, winning,winning.
That's not the way.
If the way only you think aboutwinning, you're going to end up
quitting Because, especiallywhen you're a beginner, it's

(01:02:34):
always going to have someone inthe room better than you.
So focus on yourself how muchyou learn, how much you know
Like in my school, we have thehardest belt test in the world.
In the world, in the world.
You can go in any school wehave the highest test in the

(01:02:55):
world for every single belt.
So yeah, knowledge right.
Any school we have the highesttest in the world for every
single belt.
So yeah, knowledge right.
I want to know how manytechniques do you know?
That's first, even beforeyou're being fit.
Before anything, knowledge workyour brain.
So that's the advice I gave theguys consistency and knowledge

(01:03:17):
setting training goals like allthe rest will come as a
consequence.
So you being consistent, yeah,you're losing weight, you're
getting shape, you're learningtechniques.

Joe (01:03:27):
Consistency is the way and when you have all your black
belts and upper belts togetherand it's just you and them and
you are sitting around, what aresome of the things and
principles that you kind ofteach and tell them to keep them
going forward and things likethat?
What's the advice you give them?

Leo (01:03:42):
patient, being patient, uh, being patient, uh being precise
with your technique and alwaysperfecting what you know.
We never know enough.
We never know enough, we neverknow enough.
Nobody knows 100% of everything.
Only God knows 100%.
We don't know 100%, so we gotto keep working nonstop.

Joe (01:04:04):
Right.
And the last group, that personsitting at home thinking about
getting off the couch and goingto jiu-jitsu.
What would you say to them?

Leo (01:04:13):
They think about training.

Joe (01:04:15):
Yeah.

Leo (01:04:15):
Just come, come and train.

Joe (01:04:17):
Show up.

Leo (01:04:17):
Let's enjoy the journey.
Sometimes we have good days,sometimes we have bad days.

Joe (01:04:22):
Yeah.

Leo (01:04:22):
But we got to keep going, no matter what.

Joe (01:04:25):
And final question what is ahead for Leo Nogueira?
What do you have on theforefront?
Are you thinking aboutcompeting in another?
I mean, I can't imagine there'sanother gold medal out there
that you don't have.
But what's out there for thefuture in jiu-jitsu I'm thinking
?

Leo (01:04:41):
about making winners.
That's my goal.
I think I had enough ofcompetition.
Never say never.
Sometimes super fights show upand I got it, you know.
But right now I'm focused onthe guys.
I want to leave a legacy ofathletes.
That's my goal.

Joe (01:05:00):
Leave a legacy of champions .

Leo (01:05:02):
I like that.

Joe (01:05:03):
I like that.
Well, again, I can't thank youenough for agreeing to do this.
I know you are super busy.
I'm a super fan.
I'm going to continue to be asuper fan for the listeners.
I hope you've enjoyed this andI hope to have more alliance
champions on as well.
And for those of you who areinterested in checking out more

(01:05:24):
uh, professor naguera, you canfind him all over line.
You can find his instructionalson bjj fanatics.
You have sao paulo passencyclopedia a half guard.
Uh, half Guard.
You have three more or two more.

Leo (01:05:39):
I have two passing.

Joe (01:05:41):
Two passing, that's it Two passing and one half guard.
That's it, that's it and socheck them out, pick them up.
You won't regret it, professorNogueira, thank you.
Thank you so much.

Leo (01:05:50):
Thank you everybody.
Everybody's welcome to come tovisit me anytime.

Intro/Outro (01:05:55):
Just message me and I will be more than happy to
have you here with me welcome tocaffeinated jiu-jitsu the blend
of white belt enthusiasm, blackbelt wisdom and a dash of
caffeine for that extra kick.
Dive deep into the world ofbrazil Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, as

(01:06:15):
we explore the journey,techniques, challenges and the
sheer joy of the sport from aWhite Belt's perspective.
From intriguing interviews withrenowned coaches and professors
to playful fun episodes that'llhave you chuckling mid-roll.
We've got it all brewed andready.
Now, stepping onto the mess andinto your ears, here's your

(01:06:38):
host, joe Motes.

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Episode #15 - Lessons From the Masters: Leo Nogueira

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Episode #15 - Lessons From the Masters: Leo Nogueira