Episode #30 - White Belt Chronicles: Amanda Cowie's Journey and Beyond

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The journey into Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu often begins with unexpected catalysts. For Amanda Cowie, it was her three energetic boys that first brought her to the edge of the mats. After watching from the sidelines for two years, this talent acquisition professional finally stepped onto the mats herself, discovering a world that would transform both her physical capabilities and mental resilience.

Amanda's story resonates with anyone who's ever felt out of their element when starting something new. The intimate nature of BJJ initially created discomfort, and technique retention proved challenging. Yet the turning point came not from mastering a specific move, but from forming a genuine connection with a training partner who made the experience fun. This human element of jiu-jitsu—the community that forms around shared struggle—emerges as a powerful theme throughout our conversation.

Our discussion weaves between Amanda's recent competition experience (where she earned gold despite overwhelming pre-match nerves), her technical evolution from pressure passer to developing a more well-rounded game, and the fascinating parallels between talent acquisition and martial arts. Both worlds require adaptability when plans falter, patience through rejection, and the humility to acknowledge areas for improvement. Most surprising is how Amanda, like many practitioners, finds mental decompression through an activity that outsiders might view as stressful.

For parents juggling careers and family responsibilities, Amanda offers practical insights on fitting training into busy mornings, balancing multiple children's activities, and using jiu-jitsu as a space where work emails and household duties temporarily disappear. Her perspective as both a mother and competitor provides valuable wisdom for anyone struggling to maintain consistency in their training journey.

Ready to hear how a self-described non-competitive person transformed into a medal-winning grappler? Listen now and discover why Amanda believes that even when progress feels slow, the benefits of sticking with jiu-jitsu extend far beyond techniques learned on the mat.

Reach out to Amanda on IG @mandabears

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Episode Transcript

Intro/Outro (00:04):
Welcome to Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu the blend
of white belt enthusiasm, blackbelt wisdom and a dash of
caffeine for that extra kick.
Dive deep into the world ofBrazilian Jiu-Jitsu as we
explore the journey, techniques,challenges and the sheer joy of
the sport from a White Beltsperspective, from intriguing

(00:27):
interviews with renowned coachesand professors to playful fun
episodes that'll have youchuckling mid-roll.
We've got it all brewed andready.
Now, stepping over the mess andinto your ears, here's your host
, joe moats and welcome backeveryone to another episode of

(01:01):
caffeinated jujitsu, the podcastwhere we talk about our passion
for brazilian jujitsu fullycaffeinated, and you know how
the how the two worlds collidesometimes and just really focus
on getting jujitsu out there infront of those who are as
passionate about it as we are.

(01:22):
And today I have a very specialguest here on the show.
It is our second episode in theWhite Belt Chronicles series.
With me is Amanda Cowie.
Amanda, welcome, did I say yourlast name, right?

Amanda (01:39):
Yeah, that's perfect, joe, it is Cowie.

Joe (01:42):
Awesome, awesome.
I was going to fancy it up andand go.
How was I saying it earlier tomyself?
I forgot, but it was a superlike french fancy name and I
don't know why I made it french?
Yeah, that was it.
That was it, coey that was it.

Amanda (01:57):
It's literally a translates to um cow shepherd or
something.
It's my husband's last name andobviously some Irish or
Scottish history to that oh yeahcowie is how we all say it all
right.

Joe (02:12):
Well, uh, you know, for the listeners, amanda is not
only a white belt who lovesjujitsu and has been training
for about two years.
You're in some change.
She is also in the sameprofession as me talent
acquisition and staffing.
So we're going to, today, talk,of course, a good bit about

(02:34):
jujitsu, but we're also going tomix in some of our career and
passion about recruiting.
So we're going to have a lot offun.
We'll share some crazyrecruiting stories with them.
I love that.
We've got plenty.
Oh gosh, I, you know, I.

(02:54):
Um, yeah, we're gonna talkbecause I have this one and I
may you.
You and I met what?
Two years ago, was it two?
It's got to be two years now,right?

Amanda (03:00):
yeah, it's been about two years.

Joe (03:02):
I was like super early on in my jiu-jitsu journey yeah,
you were on LinkedIn it out overit yeah, I remember I had
posted something on LinkedIn andyou posted with a picture of
you, uh, with your white belt.
Uh, you just started and yeah,ever since then we've kept in
touch and it was cool because wewere, you know, both in the

(03:22):
same profession and yeah, it'sjust so.
I love it how jujitsu makes theworld really small, really fast
I like that so let's uh, let'stalk a little bit about your, um
, your jujitsu journey.
Let's start maybe from thebeginning.
You know what brought you intojujitsu.

(03:45):
I know a little bit of yourstory, but the listeners I know
would love to hear it.
You know, was there a spark?
And also, where are youcurrently training?

Amanda (03:55):
Yeah, so I got into jujitsu because of my kids.
I've got three boys.
My husband calls me the motherof dragons.
They're very, very active boys.
They're 11, 9, and 6 now.
But you know I wanted them totry all the sports.

(04:19):
I just hoped that they wouldhave a passion for something and
it would be obvious that theywould have a passion for
something.
And it would be obvious.
And my husband was a wrestler,so we got them into jujitsu.
Our club is in North Las Vegas.
It's called Bill's Brothers orV Bros, and I'm sure I'll talk a
lot about it in this podcast,but I can't say enough great

(04:42):
things about that gym.
It's a family gym.
I mean.
I feel so included there.
But so my kids, you know, gotinto jujitsu.
My oldest, he has really bigemotions so he kind of we knew
jujitsu wasn't for him.
Maybe he'll come back to it oneday.
But he loves baseball and Iplayed softball growing up.

(05:02):
I did team sports.
So, I had a lot of connectivitywith him.
You know I taught him how tohit and play catch and I played
on an adult softball league andhe could see me play and we had
that connectivity there.
But for my younger two,specifically my middle son, you

(05:25):
know he took on to jujitsu andthen wrestling because our
club's a wrestling club as welland my husband kind of pushed me
to go into jujitsu.
You know he thought I couldbuild some connectivity with my
middle son and you know myhusband started training and
he's like you're really going tolike it, son.
And you know my husband startedtraining and he's like you're

(05:47):
really gonna like it.
You know you don't know thisabout you, but you've got like
this inner drive and aggressionthat you need to get out.
Um, that's funny, I didn't thinkso.
I'd never done like a contact,for it was totally out of my
element.
It made me super anxious tothink about like choking and
breaking limbs, and so I was anobserver for like two years and

(06:09):
then finally just got a hair upmy butt and was like you know,
I'm gonna try it, I want thatconnectivity with my son.
And so then my gym had a whitebelt fundamentals class, which
was perfect for me because I hadto go at a really slow pace at
first and it was only two nightsa week, and so that's what I

(06:30):
did for about eight months untilthey got rid of the white belt
class.
And you know I didn't love itat first.
I mean, I was really infatuatedwith it and I wanted to learn
more.
But I think you probablyremember your first class, right

(06:53):
, joe?

Joe (06:53):
Oh, absolutely, yeah, I remember everything about it.
Yeah.

Amanda (06:57):
Yeah, I was lucky enough to have white belt
fundamentals but even then beltfundamentals, but even then I
just had trouble with retentionand you know it's for me.
The physicality of it camelater.
You know I had to get used tojust being that close to an
individual.
It's kind of like a reallyintimate sport it is you know,

(07:19):
and if you don't have.
Um, I didn't have a regularpartner as brand new white belts
probably don't, you know and Iwas kind of an introvert and I
didn't make an effort tosocialize like I should and
build camaraderie with people.
So it wasn't until I got a newpartner that I really, you know,

(07:41):
became invested.
I remember a new girl walked inand she had a pinkie, ended up
being a loner bee, but I thoughtit was so cute, I complimented
her on it and she became mypartner and I said, oh, you're
really good, You're reallystrong, you should come back.
And she did and we ended uphaving a lot of fun together.

(08:02):
You know, we laughed and werolled and we really put an
effort into teaching each otherthings and for me, like, having
that good, regular partner madeall the difference.
And that's when I started, youknow, taking my jiu-jitsu a
little bit more seriously andbefore I knew it, I liked it.

(08:23):
It took me a while to get there, but I'm there now and one of
my favorite episodes that youdid was that, jackie, I think
about that daily where she'slike, if it's not going to help
my jujitsu, then why am I doingit?
So, so yeah, that's kind of myjujitsu story.

(08:44):
Um, and you know I have thatconnectivity with my boys.
Um, my favorite class is ourcomp class that we do on
Saturdays and we get to rolltogether and yeah, I, uh, I
submit my kids.
I'm not afraid to admit it.
That's right.

Joe (09:02):
Yeah, you got you do what you gotta do.
I mean, I think, as long asyou're not like wrist locking
them and heel hooking them.
But maybe I'll do that there, Idon't know, but that's awesome.
I want to submit my kids butand they don't even train
jujitsu.
They just get on my nervessometimes.

Amanda (09:18):
So they're eligible for a rear naked choke.

Joe (09:25):
I think so too, especially when they get in the teens.
I would love to train jujitsuwith my kids, but then I think,
well what if they get mad?
I can't put the fear of God inthem anymore by yelling at them.
Yeah.

Amanda (09:36):
I may have a couple years left, but my nine-year-old
is 120 pounds.

Joe (09:42):
Oh wow.
Well, you're married to awrestler, so so dad's a wrestler
, so he's probably, you know,he's got some size there too.
So yeah yeah but I got a couplemore years on him and then I'll
start getting worried but yeah,yeah now it's all fun yeah,
well, by then you'll, you know,you'll be a blue belt, you'll
have more techniques and, justyou know, try to stay on top yes

(10:05):
that's, that's the best we cando, right?
So you, you recently competed.
Yeah, how was that?

Amanda (10:12):
yeah, my first competition.
Um, I never wanted to compete,I just I, I don't know, by
nature I'm not.
I'm not a high drive person II'm definitely not a bad Jackie,
but I did play team sports andI do have some competitive drive
.
But again my husband pushed me.
He was like you know you'vebeen doing well, and the boys,

(10:36):
you know it'll be good for themto see you compete.
And the plan was that we do thetournament together.
It was the L open in february,um and that's what the comp
class was all about, um, and hewanted my.
You know, my instructor wantedto bring a large group, but it

(10:57):
ended up being a smaller groupthan he'd like.
But, and my kids uh, myyoungest is still a white belt
and the white belt kids couldn'tcompete, so I ended up being
the only one that competed fromthe family, but it was a great
experience.
I only had one match,unfortunately, but it was.
It was what I expected, but notlike there's.

(11:19):
There's really nothing that canprepare you for what happens to
your body and really kind ofyour mental and I've, you know,
I've given birth and I've gottenmarried and all the things that
make you feel like alive andnervous this was so different I
it's indescribable.

(11:39):
It's like your body knows you'regoing into like a hand-to-hand
combat situation and ispreparing you in this weird way,
and that's kind of like thedramatic version of it, but it
is, it's different, there'snothing like it.
And so my first competition wasall about just calming my

(12:00):
nerves and I feel like I'm apretty even-keeled person by
nature, I don't have like asuper wide range of emotions.
So this was very new anddifferent for me and I was in
that like bullpen area thinking,oh god, this feeling that I've
never felt before.
I'm never gonna do this againthis is an awful feeling it is,

(12:20):
it's the worst feeling it isright, like why, why did I do
this, why did I sign up?
But then I thought about, likeI'm over 40, like what on earth
could make me feel like thisagain?
You know how many times in mylife am I gonna feel this brand
new feeling, whatever it isnerves, excitement, fear, um, I

(12:40):
felt like alive.
I mean, as cheesy as thatsounds, but yeah, I went out
there a nervous wreck and it wasgreat because my opponent was a
mom herself and she got into itshe should see because of her
daughter and we really bondedlike that over that after the

(13:03):
match.
And we really bonded like thatover that after the match and it

(13:28):
ended up going the whole, thewhole round.
She pulled guard and I ended uppassing guard and was in half
guard for quite a bit buteventually got out of it and
ended up getting points forpassing guard.
And now and I had kind of arather pathetic submission
attempt at the end there um withthe Kimura.
If you want to catch my, mylive, my first um match in
competition, you can do so on myInstagram reel.
I'll give it later in thepodcast.
But yeah, I, I won that match.
I have a gold medal.
I mean it was a great experience.

Joe (13:50):
Oh yeah, that has.
I mean, I uh, I gotta imagineit's.
It's a amazing, amazing feelingand I think it's good like
especially for us who and I lovehow you talked about you know
you're over 40.
A lot of our kind of amazingtingling feeling events are a
little bit behind us, or so wethink.

(14:12):
And then we find this feelingin jujitsu and everyone knows
that feeling that competes, andI think even those who compete a
lot still talk about like itgets real when you're walking
from the bullpen to the to themat and it's, it is.
It's not like a feeling thatthat anything else gives you.

(14:34):
So are you going to competeagain?

Amanda (14:39):
yeah, um, I think my next one might be Jiu Jitsu Con
in August, you're so luckyyou're in Vegas too.
Yeah, and it's in Vegas and alot of the master folks at my
gym are going to do worldmasters there and, yeah, that'll
be my next one.

(14:59):
As long as I stay healthy andstay on track, that's what I'm
planning on.

Joe (15:06):
You know, the funny thing about competition, that feeling
we're talking about, is it'sweird how we don't get that in
training, like at the gym, whenyou're training with a brand new
person, like maybe you'rerolling with them.
I mean, it's kind of the samething.
I don't know if it's becauseit's just competition, is it
because maybe people arewatching?
But I was thinking about thatone day.

(15:28):
I don't know why I was thinkingabout that, but it's just weird
how you know competition makes.
It just makes that difference.
I do think people should shouldtry to compete at least one time
If're going to, you know, makejujitsu something that's your
every day.
And it's like a sport havingthat experience of maybe one

(15:51):
time trying to compete.
And it doesn't have tonecessarily be ibjjf or or
definitely not something likeadcc, but if the, if the
opportunity comes, why not?
Why not try time?
Um, and then just see what it'slike?
I think it's a good measure ofhow you're retaining your
jujitsu.
And again, there's nothingwrong with being a full-time

(16:14):
hobbyist.
I look at myself as a hobbyist.
Um, I'm definitely not, you knowthis athlete competitor guy but
I don't know, I I just, I justthink it's a good experience for
people I agree.

Amanda (16:26):
Um, I probably consider myself a hobbyist as well.
Um, like I mentioned, I neverreally had that total
competitive drive, but I thinkeverybody should try it at least
once.
Um, there's not a feeling likeit that I felt, and I did hear
that blue belt is probably,competition wise, the toughest

(16:48):
belt.
I mean, you get like such awide range of blue belts, don't
you like?
Yeah, the brackets, yeah the.

Joe (16:57):
The one time I did compete at blue belt there were four
people in the bracket, and whenall every time I competed at
white belt, there was just meand one other person.
So and yeah, and like, whenyou're in the adult brackets
it's like sometimes it'd be likeeight people in there for an
open.
It's crazy oh gosh but yeah yeahso thinking about, um, your

(17:19):
journey a little bit more, let's.
Let's talk maybe about somelessons.
You know it's, you know whitebelt, such a up and down and
just a wild face emotionally,physically, there's a lot of
uncertainty there.
You're learning a whole neweverything.
I mean you were you said itearlier about how you had to get

(17:40):
used to somebody being thatclose to you.
That's not somebody who shouldbe that close to you, right?
Um?
Have you had any moments whereyou thought about ah, I think
I'm.
I don't know if this is goingto be for me.
Uh, maybe I'll quit yeah,definitely.

Amanda (18:00):
Um, well, when I first started you getting used to the
physical, I mean, every day washard.
My fundamentals class is like20 minutes of conditioning, and
then when I got to the adultclass, um, I think what I was
missing, big picture wise is Ididn't feel the sense of
community just yet.

(18:20):
Sense of community just yet.
I remember a very pivotalmoment where I was.
I have one stripe and I havekind of recommitted myself to
training more than two days aweek and I thought I was making
progress and my husband's kindof more of a social butterfly of

(18:41):
the gym than me and he wastalking to some of the coaches
and he came to me that night andhe was like you know so and so
notice, you know your progress,and we talked about you a little
bit and they're doingpromotions on Monday.
I'd be surprised if you didn'tget another stripe.
And they didn't really careabout stripes.
I mean, why would I?
I don't know.

(19:01):
I just kind of was on my ownpace on my own journey, but that
kind of got me excited.
And when the day came and Ididn't get a stripe, I was like
devastated.
I don't know if it's because Ikind of bought into.
Yeah, I'm working hard and I'mearning one.
But, long story short, it was amistake.

(19:24):
My instructor, you know, didforget to give me a stripe, um,
and, and you know, he gave outstripes to, I think you know,
five or six other people.
That Monday night and I camehome and you know, before I knew
it was a mistake, I was almostin tears, like I can't describe

(19:46):
the emotion, just like I thoughtmaybe this isn't for me, you
know, like maybe if I didn't geta stripe and I'm not
progressing the way that I thinkI am, maybe I thought I
deserved some feedback or whatwas I doing wrong?
I mean just so much self selfdoubt in that moment.
But you know what I got?

(20:06):
It lasted like an hour, youknow, and the next day I put my
gi on and my husband's like oh,you're going back.
And I'm like yeah, I'm not aquitter.
And then the next day I got mystripe and my coach was like
yeah, you know, I 100% plan togive you one.
I've been noticing yourprogress and I'm sorry I forgot.
And then I, honestly, that waslike a kickstart into me feeling

(20:31):
like part of the community too.
I mean, you know, then my blackbelt instructor's wife took a
picture of me with my secondstripe and sent it to me and it
was like a proud moment and Ifelt a little silly for wanting
to quit over that very, you know, minuscule thing on my very

(20:54):
long journey of potentialjujitsu challenges.
But and I didn't know if I wasgoing to tell that story, it's a
little embarrassing to.
I might have shed tears over,you know, not getting my stripes
and it's not all about stripes,and I know that and that's what
I tell my kids, but, yeah, it'sa very memorable moment, like
to know what, to have thatself-doubt.

(21:15):
I'm glad that I felt that inthe moment and still, you know,
picked myself up and went back,you know.

Joe (21:27):
Yeah, I think there's absolutely listeners out there
who've probably experienced theexact same like situation.
You know what?
I was a four-stripe white beltand at Alliance you have to do a
certain amount of classesbefore because we test.
We're on a test belt system andyou have to do, I think, like

(21:49):
four white belt it's 30 hours or35 hours per stripe, and then
on your second stripe you haveto test.
Well, I was already atwo-stripe, so I didn you have
to test.
Well, I was already a twostripe, so I didn't have to test
.
But I got to to my fourth stripeand you know I had done what?
Three so two, two so 60 hours Ihad done, and I was waiting for

(22:13):
, um, you know, professor, uhMaciel, to say, okay, you're
gonna, you're gonna test foryour blue belt now.
But I remember thinking thatlike I'm getting ready to test
for my blue belt and I am stillgetting just smashed by.
You know, there were a coupletwo-stripe white belts.

(22:33):
There was a white belt who had,like I think he had like maybe
two or three weeks and dude wassubmitting me and I'm like I
don't know, like it was a lot ofpressure and I felt like, oh my
God, you know, I don't know ifthis is for me, but again, like

(22:56):
you, it lasted for all of a fewseconds, and then I realized
these guys that were submittingme were in some cases younger,
and if not younger, then a lotbigger than I was.
So you know it's just, you haveto keep things in perspective.
And I had to look and askmyself well, why are you doing

(23:17):
jujitsu?
And it's simply because I loveit.
It's not for medals.
It's not for medals, it's notfor, you know, flair.
It's not.
I'm not going to be this, thismulti-world champion in the
jujitsu hall of fame.
I started when I was 42 and youknow, I, I am doing this because
I, I just, I just love it, youknow, and I think if if we as

(23:38):
may I say, we, those of us whoare in within, like our first
several years of jujitsu, if wekeep that in mind and keep that
our reason, there's no reason wewon't continue on, you know,
all the way till we get ourblack belts, and I think that's.
You hear about the blue beltsthat quit and things like that,

(24:02):
um, or just the people that quitin general.
I I think it's because theylose sight of that yeah, I was.

Amanda (24:11):
I was thinking about all the benefits we get um and
how they might be different fromsomeone who is like ultra
competitive.
And I don't think they're verydifferent.
I mean other than titles andmedals and maybe sponsorships.

(24:32):
I mean we get same benefits asthey do.
I mean I'm physically more fitthan I was 10 years ago.
I get all the mental benefitsmy brain is reworking and
rethinking and growing and I getyou get that sense of community
.
I have that now.

(24:52):
It was.
That was probably the mostunexpected thing for me.

Joe (24:56):
Oh same.

Amanda (24:57):
All the friends that I have in jujitsu and how we root
for each other and help eachother, and it's very cool
feeling um, so yeah, jujitsu isfor us it is, it really is, uh,
it's, it's for everyone whowants to get out there and and
try it.

Joe (25:16):
I um, just like you, we share a lot in common when it
comes to our early journey is Ihad no clue the sense of
community was going to be theway it is, and I've heard people
say it's the jiu-jitsu cult andI can kind of see it.
I mean, we kind of gosh, wekind of are a little bit, but in

(25:36):
the best sense of the word, ifthat word can be in the best
sense, I don't know, but it'sawesome, it's amazing.
I hope everyone that listens isin a really good gym with a
good community.
I know I hear stories about,you know, toxic gyms and I've
never experienced it and I'mglad.
And if I ever do, I want toexperience it long.

(25:57):
But you know, so far it's just,it's just, it's been great.
You know, one of the things Iwant to ask you is uh, is there
maybe a current focus on thatyou're focusing on in your
training now?
Is there a technique you'retrying to improve?
Has there something in the?
You know, because you'regetting kind of?
You know, I think, you thinkyou're.

(26:18):
You said you were a two-stripewhite belt right two stripe,
yeah three.
You're getting kind of.
You know, I think you thinkyou're.
You said you were a two stripewhite belt right, two stripe,
yeah, three, you're three.
Okay, so that's right, you justgot your third stripe.
So like has something began toclick, like maybe a technique um
that clicked for you, thatyou're looking to improve on um
anything like that.
Yeah.

Amanda (26:37):
So a couple of things recently.
Um one thing was um I I go tomorning class and there's about
three purple bells oh my gosh,it's a smaller class but that
are girls that continuallyhumble me.
Um, so I am learning to be amaster escape artist and and

(27:01):
when I escape you know maybe atriangle or a omakata, if I can
there's that small moment whereI might have the upper advantage
.
You know, like if they'replanning on keeping that
submission or they're countingon it and I escape, usually I

(27:23):
would tend to reset totally andget some distance for them.
But someone in a live role waslike no, keep the pressure.
You know, don't, don't sit back.
You have the advantage for asplit second.
You know they might not knowtheir next move after you've
escaped, so that you know I'mworking on that.
And then, um, you'll see mepulling guard more.

(27:47):
Um, I'm not a guard puller atall by any means, but I need to
force my legs to do jujitsu.
Um, I fancy myself kind of apressure passer.
You know, the purple belts thatI roll with consistently pull
guard and that's their game.

(28:08):
So, by nature, my game has beenthe opposite.

Joe (28:12):
Right.

Amanda (28:12):
Trying to pass guard.
So I'll pull guard more andwork my De La Riva, you know,
been working sweeps this weektrying to off balance and yeah,
you wouldn't see me doing thatsix months ago.
Never pull guard.
But I'm getting some moreconfidence in it.
It's like my current focus andthat's what needs to happen.

Joe (28:35):
My whole, my legs and my arms have to work together, so
yeah, I think that's a challengefor all of us, especially us
newer in it.
I, um, it took me a while tofind a technique that would
actually work somewhat for me.
I, but for me it was because Iwas being hard-headed, not not
listening, you know, to myprofessor and a sense of I

(28:59):
wanted, I wanted to, you know,be good at the cool stuff like
lasso guard and x guard and, youknow, be able to retain open
guard again.
I can't like.
Funny thing is, uh, my professor.
He finally, I guess he kind ofhad enough.
He was like why are youcontinuing to play open guard?

(29:22):
Everyone passes you.
You cannot play open guard.
Why do you go straight into thelasso if you can't hold the
grip when they come around tothe right?
He kept coaching me andcoaching me.
He's like you need to go toclose guard or half guard?

(29:42):
You need to go to close guardor half guard.
And one day I was like you knowwhat?
I'm going to close guard orhalf guard, I'm going to see
what happens.
And from then on I mean thatspecific day everything changed
when I was able to startbuilding a really good half
guard game.
Almost all of my submissionsthat I do land come from closed

(30:03):
guard.
I have a couple sneaky onesfrom half, but they don't
typically work.
On upper belts I'd say purple,brown, black of course, but you
know, there just comes a pointwhere something clicks for you
and um it, it's, it's, it'sawesome when that happens, it's

(30:27):
motivating, you know it keepsyou going like, okay, this is
getting fun, you, you know, Icouldn't even process fast

(30:47):
enough to be able to think twosteps ahead, you know.

Amanda (30:50):
But now, um, yeah, your muscle memory starts kicking in
, also around maybe year two orjust with some consistency.
So yeah, yeah and wherever youfail mentally, the physical kind
of picks up.
Well, you know this.

Joe (31:09):
Yeah, yeah, I've, I've been lucky to training at
Alliance and you know, whenyou're in a school like I'm sure
you are as well where you'vegot some just really good, you
know professors and coachesand've got some just really good
, you know professors andcoaches and you know Alliance
has, you know the Lucas LaPreethey had.
You know Bernardo Fierra Ialways miss his name.

(31:33):
I need to get it right.
I'm bad with names, but LeoNogueira and all of these people
are, you know, part of kind ofthat, that lineage or whatever.
And so some of the moves thatwe're learning are like these
battle-tested moves and Iremember, uh, we learned this
punch choke from close guard andI, I love it, I love it.

(31:56):
Uh, problem is, I've used it somuch that that now everybody
kind of knows what's coming andI need to figure something else
out.
But it's just, you know, I justcome back to it and it's just
really, really motivating.
So if, uh, you know there'slisteners out there that maybe
haven't hit this point in theirjourney, you know, I definitely
encourage you to keep on becauseit's coming.

(32:16):
There's going to be a day a week, you know, some random open mat
on a Saturday where you're like, oh my gosh, this feels great,
I can land it, you know so, butyeah, so let's, let's kind of
switch gears.
I I cause I want to spend sometime talking about, you know,
our career and some of thethings that we maybe take from

(32:39):
our career onto the mat and viceversa.
So you know, we share thatprofessional background and
talent acquisition.
How have you seen, maybe yourcareer in recruiting and
staffing influenced by yourjujitsu?
And then also the flip side,has your jujitsu been influenced

(33:02):
by you know kind of your, yourcareer and profession and and
recruiting, and maybe youhaven't seen any uh kind of
bleed over, but uh, yeah, talk,talk a little bit about that,
yeah.

Amanda (33:14):
Well, I know you and I bonded over this um early on in
our jiu-jitsu careers.
Just the connection or thecorrelation between talent
acquisition and jiu-jitsu andmaybe this isn't unique to
talent acquisition, but I knowin recruiting you can get

(33:37):
humbled a lot.
We were just talking aboutbeing a recruiter sourcer and
how you just can get thatrejection from candidates.
Just like you get humbled inyour professional life, you get
humbled on the mats daily.

(33:58):
Jiu Jitsu teaches you patienceand how to problem solve when
things don't go according toplan and how to make adjustments
and just overall how to calmyour own anxieties, fears,

(34:20):
frustrations.
And when you practice thatevery day, physically, mentally,
that translates to professionallife.
I don't do a ton of sourcingrecruiting Now.
I do more high volume and, butit's the same.
You know situation.

(34:41):
You know situation.
I, you know, have a number thatI'm expected to fill and I
start out with a plan for it andwhen things don't go according
to plan I have to makeadjustments, just like you do,
like in a live round.
You know you can go in therewith it all planned out, have
prepped for um, your skill set,study your opponent, uh, put it

(35:06):
into action, and then you knowit didn't happen or it didn't go
the right way, and now you'remaking adjustments and
exercising flexibility, so Ithink that's the biggest
correlation.
Um, I know you've got somethoughts on it too yeah, yeah, I
a hundred percent um it's.

Joe (35:26):
it's hard sometimes for me to put it specific to, to
talent acquisition, um, but Iknow overall in my professional
life, um, it's definitely kindof bled over into it.
It's um and for it's aroundstress management, because
jujitsu is my thing.

(35:47):
Right, it's how I wusa, it'show I decompress which is weird,
I know, but being a dad of fiveboys and having a family and
working a stressful job, ithelps so much alleviate stress.

(36:09):
And when I first got out of themilitary I was a little
stressed.
I was dealing with someuntreated PTSD at the time but I
I didn't feel like I was a highstress person.
And then, and when I got intothe corporate world, like people
were stressing over thecraziest things, like the

(36:29):
smallest things, and I'm like,well, no one's shooting at you,
you know, like it's not that bad.
But then as I got further alongand more away from the military,
I did start getting a lot ofstress.
I put on a lot of weight.
I think at my heaviest I wasover you know, I think I was
like 210 pounds and I'm only5'11".
So it was, you know, there was.

(36:51):
I was just it, just everythingwas piling up on me.
But when I started jujitsu andI started experiencing those
health benefits you talked aboutearlier, the mental health
benefits to me far outweighedand that's what I started seeing
in my career right, a lot lessanxiety, a lot less stress At

(37:14):
home.
I was a lot less stressed, hada lot more patience.
So I didn't see as manyparallels with, like, if I sit
down and think, talentacquisition, but oh my gosh,
that the benefit has been justthat total.
Hey, I have something todecompress, I have something of

(37:35):
my own and yeah, yeah, this is,this is how it's impacted my my
day to day in my career.

Amanda (37:42):
Yeah, it's funny to think about.
You know jujitsu and theintensity behind it and thinking
.
You know that's how youdecompress.
It really is.
I get that a hundred percent.
Know my motivation for going tojujitsu.
When I don't feel like it isbecause I know that's going to

(38:06):
be a mental break for me,believe it or not.
You know from my schedule andfrom you know us remote workers.
You're never like off work, ifthat makes sense.
You're never like off work, ifthat makes sense, like I don't
have to answer my emails ateight or nine.
But if it's going to save metime and headaches, then I will,
you know.

(38:26):
So, to have like that hour anda half where I don't think about
work at all, I don't thinkabout my kid's schedule, I don't
think about the trouble theygot in school, and then, as the
added bonus, if it's, you know,around dinner time, then my
husband's in charge of all that.
So, yeah, it is totally like ade-stress, decompress time and

(38:52):
you wouldn't think so, butthat's like one of those
unexpected benefits that you getfrom jujitsu.

Joe (39:00):
It's like it calms me down .
People are like what you have,like scratches and bruises on
your face.

Amanda (39:05):
It's like, yeah, it's great.

Joe (39:07):
It's so true, it's hard to sell people like if you had to
sell jujitsu for a career.
I probably would fail because,like you, you can just say hey,
yeah, it's awesome.
You're smiling with the rash ora gi burn across your forehead.

Amanda (39:20):
So exactly, and uh, I know, for me at least um, even
though I did sports growing upteen sports, like I mentioned um
, in my adult life I've neverbeen able to like stick to a
normal workout routine.
And I know a lot of adults thatcan, and I know some that don't

(39:44):
work out at all.
But, um, yeah, I just going tothe gym was kind of boring.
It's not mentally stimulatingfor me, even if I have like a
rock solid playlist, um, sojujitsu kind of saved my life.

Intro/Outro (39:58):
You know, yeah, like.

Amanda (39:59):
I go four or five days, six days a week, and that is my
workout, and I don't know whatI'd do, how I'd motivate myself
to get to the gym, you know,consistently.
I mean I used to like theworkout classes and those were
kind of fun, but going every dayjust to lift weights or run the

(40:20):
treadmill just never motivatedme.
So this is fun.
It makes working out andputting in hard work really fun.

Joe (40:30):
So yeah, I, I agree I I'm not.
I have weights and a little gymset up at my house and I I
train jujitsu more than I workout there.
Um, but yeah, it's.
I think it's kind of thecommunity too, and we've talked
about that a lot and I actuallyhave some some thoughts and
questions around that, um, whenwe think about.

(40:53):
Well, first off, thank you forsharing the you know the insight
, because I think there's a lotof people out there who get
bored with workouts, and youknow whether I, because I think
there's a lot of people outthere who get bored with
workouts and you know I rememberwhen the DVD thing, the P90X,
that used to be this big thing.
I don't know if you've everheard of the P90X.

Amanda (41:10):
I remember that.

Joe (41:11):
Yeah, it was huge and but it was a fad, right, and all of
these.
You know these apps.
And you know one coach tellsyou one thing.
One person you know, um gosh,one foot fitness influencer or
guru, tells you this you got theguy that does V shred on
Instagram eating pizza but helooks like, you know he just he

(41:33):
was chiseled by the hands of thegods or something and it's it's
, it's overwhelming.
You know it's not fun, it's notat all.
And yeah, I think a lot ofpeople can relate to that.
And you know, coming back to alittle bit and spending some
time on, you know, community andthings like that For you, how

(41:57):
important has your gym and yourgym environment and community
been in your journey?
I mean, I hear a lot of peoplesay it's the reason I stay.

Amanda (42:09):
You know yeah, let's talk a little bit about that it
absolutely is.
It is the reason like you, Iknow I don't personally know,
but I'm part of like a Facebookgroup of jujitsu women over 40.
And there's a lot ofcomplaining about their

(42:29):
instructors oh no Politics andtheir rolling partners, and I've
never had any of that and if Ihad to deal with that, I don't
know that it would be worth itfor me.
But I've had such the oppositeexperience.
I mean, my gym, you know, is afamily gym.

(42:49):
It's owned by um MattVillatorra and his wife Vivian
and their three sons, so that'skind of like, you know, a
reflection moment for me.
They have three sons that arereally met.
You know men now, but reallygood boys growing up and they
have great heads on theirshoulders, and AJ, alika and

(43:14):
Arona have been growing up doingjujitsu and now they instruct
at the family gym.
You, you know that it opened in2016 and there's such a big
sense of community.
Um, they have, you know,multiple kids classes and that's
my favorite thing to go in andsee the kids having fun.
I mean, they do tug of war.

(43:34):
They find a way to make itengaging for them.
And, you know, I've found, likethis unexpected community with
the adults, obviously, that Ididn't expect to have.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's what'skept me for sure.
I mean, had I not found thatit'd be hard to go.

(43:57):
It's hard to roll with strangersor people you don't know, right
you know um jujitsu, I don'twant to say it needs to feel
safe, but you definitely thatsense of community helps.
It gives you like that safetythat you need, that
encouragement that you need, um,and it really does make a

(44:20):
difference yeah, I, I couldn'tagree more.

Joe (44:24):
Yeah, I, um, I I've seen stories and and things like that
on on instagram as well about,you know, toxic gym cultures,
especially for for womenpractitioners.
You know, sometimes it's justlike kind of in the workplace
too, right, unfortunately, womendeal with with things that that
they, they shouldn't at times,and I'm not saying that men

(44:46):
don't, but it's just that, um,yeah, it's, the culture has to
be right and it has to be safeand I think there has to be um,
like, yeah, like, I'm surethere's gems out there that have
just straight up creeps in them.
You know, um, and you knowthat's the last thing you want
to do, is, is, is have to comeacross that in any way, shape or

(45:10):
form.
And then you know, I know thethis big thing in jujitsu now,
uh, with male and females thatare going around, is when you
know that people start datinginside the gyms and and things
go south, and you know itbecomes a real clicky.
So, um, like, I have neverexperienced that right in in any
of the gyms I've been at andI'm glad, and I don't think any

(45:31):
of the professors I've evertrained under would put up with
that.
But you hear it, you know andit and it's good, it's, it's,
it's.
It's great really to know thatyou're in a safe, a secure
environment, that all you haveto worry about is training and
not stepping the wrong way ordoing something crazy to

(45:53):
yourself and injuring yourself.
So I just couldn't agree more.

Amanda (45:59):
Yeah, it makes all the difference.

Joe (46:01):
And you know thinking about um well, I on on the
episode and it's not from effort, or on the podcast, it's not
from any lack of effort oranything, but I've only had a
few you know femalepractitioners on so far and I
always like to ask you know, doyou feel like jujitsu has

(46:25):
changed the way maybe you viewwomen in combat sports, or maybe
your own identity in the gymhas it given you more of an
appreciation?
You know what?
What are your thoughts aroundthat?

Amanda (46:45):
Absolutely.
It's given me, first of all, abigger awareness.
I, you know I didn't use towatch a lot of combat sports
like UFC and boxing before Istarted Jiu Jitsu, but now I do.
I watch it more.
I mean it's all over myInstagram feed, um, so that's

(47:06):
just my built up algorithm.
But particularly I'm interestedin watching you know women's
Jiu Jitsu fighters.
I mean, I just never tooknotice to them before and now I
follow.
You know as many as I can.
I mean Helena Cravar and oh yeah, she's awesome, yeah and um,

(47:31):
you know, adele, brianna, sam, Imean there's just I can go on
and on about who comes up on myInstagram feed daily and it's
like, honestly, my favoritething to watch.
It's just, and I don't know ifI see myself in them.
I mean, I definitely watch thewomen more than men and it's

(47:54):
maybe just like aself-actualization, I don't know
, just as a woman watching awoman competing in that way, it
does make me feel a little bitmore empowered and it's just.
I never observed it beforebecause I didn't know it was out
there, I guess, to say, ordidn't have an interest of it,

(48:15):
but it's totally changed myperspective and, um, I'm always
watching to learn more aboutmyself and grow and, honestly,
watching in admiration aboutjust how complete animals these
girls are and how badass youknow.
So, yeah, that's a great callout.

(48:38):
I didn't even notice that I hadtaken such an interest in
female fighters the way that Ido, but night and day, for sure.

Joe (48:48):
Yeah, I'm a big Elizabeth Clay fan.
I like watching her a lot.
I tell yeah, I know, right, andthen just to bounce back and
she's already, I think, um, Ithought the match between her
and Helena was good.
I, I was thinking that thatElizabeth, might, you know, pull

(49:11):
it out, but you know.
Helena's tough man.
I mean she is tough, um, youknow, but it was a great, great
match.
And you know, but it was agreat, great match and you know,
I enjoy watching all of them.
I I excited about, you know,bad jackie going worlds this
year and competing at brown belt.

(49:32):
I mean, if she wins that threeyears in a row, that is insane.
So like I'm gearing up to watchthat when she goes out there and
she's not you know, like this,this super famous person, but
you know, I like even watchingthe, the people in my gym
compete and you know, rachel, um, she's, she's our own, she's

(49:53):
our purple belt and she won pansand I remember it was, I was
celebrating like it was.
You know, my favorite team justwon the Super Bowl.
When she won, and all of us, wehad this group chat and we, you
know, we celebrate, you know,really everybody, but it's, it's
especially um, I don't want tosay sound overly mushy and say

(50:18):
heartwarming, heartwarming, butit's always great to see the
female competitors just go inand mop the floor with people
and so that's great yeah I know,and uh, helena havar started.

Amanda (50:31):
Um, actually, you know, under my instructor, matt no,
no way um, yeah, so it's kind offun to you know, root her on.
I mean, she's just incrediblein her submissions and how she
off balances her opponents andyeah, I think mikey most yeah,

(50:52):
oh, mikey, yeah, he startedunder him too yeah, no way yeah
that's awesome.

Joe (51:01):
Yeah, I love watching mikey stuff to see.

Amanda (51:05):
You know, I'm getting the same quality instruction.
Yeah, how come I'm not thereyet?

Joe (51:12):
yeah, god, could you imagine like standing on one
side of the mat and on the otherwith, like helena?
I was like what?

Intro/Outro (51:19):
is gonna happen here, yeah just.

Joe (51:23):
I mean I, I wouldn't bite her, you know she's, she's,
he'll hook at me in seconds.
So I'm done, um.
But no, uh, let's talk a littlebit about your training and
then I have kind of like a fun Icall it the espresso round of
some questions that some have todo with jujitsu, some have
nothing to do with jujitsu, andthen then we'll share maybe some

(51:46):
final thoughts and close out.
This is, you know, been great.
This is awesome.
You know conversation andinsights.
I appreciate you, you know,taking the time and going
through this with me.
So, yeah, yeah, let's talkabout, uh, you talked a little
bit about your training scheduleand this is always fun to talk

(52:06):
with.
Um, you know, kind of master'slevel people here us that have
this full life, uh, outside ofjujitsu.
Right, we're not just going toschool and going to training,
we're doing a thousand otherthings.
Um, what?
What does your your schedulelook like?
You said you were morningtrainer, um, you said it was.
Is it monday, wednesday andfridays?

(52:28):
Do you do gi or no gi?
Do you do both?
How do you?
How do you balance it all, too,with work?

Amanda (52:34):
yeah.
So the morning class is rathernew for me.
I think it started in decemberand um, it's only because my
kids are old enough to getthemselves ready for school now.
But mornings work really wellfor me.
I mean, I do lose that hour ofsleep, but I don't miss it, and
we can go five days a week inthe morning, so it's an hour

(52:57):
class.
We usually squeeze in either acouple of 10 minute rounds at
the end or we'll do like guardpasturals.
I call it King of the Hill, Idon't know if it's called that?

Joe (53:09):
Yeah, that's what we call it, yeah.

Amanda (53:11):
Yeah, and yeah, friday's open, matt, but I try
to go.
You know I try to get my bodyin line to go five days a week.
It's definitely becoming moredoable for me.
I miss the night class.
Our night class is 7 to 8 30.

(53:31):
My husband had been working inBoise for six the last six
months so he just got back.
So I think, if I push myself,I'll probably start doing some
double days here and there.
Usually no gi is Tuesday andThursday and then we do gi
Monday, wednesday, friday.

(53:51):
That's how we do at our gym,but it's tough.
I mean my kids, kids, as Imentioned, I want they do.
They have a full schedule ofthemselves.
I mean my.
My one kid does competitiveclub baseball four days a week
during the week and thentournaments on the weekends, and

(54:12):
then my other two do jujitsuand wrestling.
So they do double days onTuesday and Thursday and their
classes like from five to seven.
And then my little one stilldoes baseball.
In the spring is a busierseason for us, so we have
baseball games on Tuesday andThursday.

(54:33):
And yeah, we eat dinner at ahealthy nine o'clock at night.

Joe (54:38):
Oh yeah, you gotta love those nights.
Uh, that happens a lot at myhouse as well.
So, um, I think, during thistime of the year too, we're
eating out way more than what weshould.

Intro/Outro (54:49):
So it's just so easy, yeah gosh, it's hard.

Joe (54:53):
It's hard not to fall into that.
You know, um, but especiallywhen you people who have more
than one kid, understand thatlike you're going to go.
Yeah, we don't judge each otherthis is bad, this is going to
sound bad, so it's funny.

(55:13):
Sometimes I kind of laughinternally when someone who has
maybe one kid and they're likenine, and I'm so stressed I'm
thinking what?
Like, if I had one kid and theywere nine, I feel like I was
like no kids, like I don't know,and I'm not saying I'm not like
downplaying their stress oranything.

(55:35):
I just you do appreciate likethat time in your life where you
just had one and you're like,okay, yeah yeah, exactly.

Amanda (55:46):
Um, yeah, I mean I would take this crazy schedule
over, like having babies andtoddlers, though oh god, yes,
yes exhaustion.
Um, I feel like it's.
Even though we have a fullschedule, like I'm in the car
for like five hours a dayrunning around um I would take

(56:06):
this over, that any day and thembeing able to, you know, wipe
their own butts.

Joe (56:13):
I mean, yeah, people don't realize, like, how liberating
that is and when you get out ofthe diaper phase or when they
can fix their cells.
A bowl of cereal, you know it'slike you just don't get or even
when you get to get rid of thecar seat like what.
That's awesome.
I don't have to like navigatestraps anymore.

Amanda (56:37):
This is great yeah, yeah it's um, it's better on
this side for sure.
I mean, I miss having babies.
They're all like little men nowand they're just getting older.
But yeah, next milestone willbe when they drive themselves to
practice.
It'll be a minute, but we'llget there.

Joe (56:58):
Yeah, yeah it's.
You know it is going to becrazy.
Trenton, my 14-year-old he'llstart kind of learner's permit
driving next year and that'sgoing to be crazy.
It's hard to think.
I think, you know, I'm going tohave two that drive because I
have an older son too.

(57:18):
But yeah, the hair's gettinggrayer so it's that time.
Um, well, look at you know,amanda, I want to kind of go
through these questions.
I call it the espresso round.
Just some fun questions to umyou know just let the listeners
get to know you a little bitmore um around some of your
passions and interests.

(57:38):
So so yeah, let's do this, doyou prefer?
I think you may have covered ita few moments ago, but I just
didn't catch it.

Amanda (57:50):
Do you prefer ghee or no?
Ghee I prefer no ghee.

Joe (57:51):
Oh really, really, I thought you'd be a ghee person.

Amanda (57:56):
I don't know why Do you want me to elaborate?
Yeah?
Yeah, let's get into this,let's figure this out, let's
sort you out the grips add awhole nother element of brain
block for me, sometimes when youget stuck in them, as I
mentioned I I fight a lot ofpurple belts and they have
really tight grips and I guessthat's just part of jujitsu, but

(58:17):
but I get submitted way less innogi.
So maybe that's why it's myfavorite right now is because
I'm an escape artist in nogi andin gi I get submitted.
Yeah, the grips are a wholenother element for me to learn
and overcome and master.

(58:38):
So the flow of the nogi is is alot of fun for me yeah, I think
that's where I'm at well it's,it's good.

Joe (58:49):
You know, in a sense it kind of it sort of feels like
jiu-jitsu is kind of going moretowards nogi.
I mean you have gems like 10thplanet and things like that that
only train no gi.
And then you know, adc issynonymous for no gi, grappling.
So, um, so I like, I like no gi.
I have less time on the mat nogi than I do gi.

(59:10):
I, I do prefer gi.
And it's funny, um, you don'tlike gi because of the grips.
I like gi because I can makegrips.
I have to slow these guys downand I have to have something to
hold on to.
You know, I'm not, I'm notsuper athletic, um, I'm not out
of shape or are completely notflexible, but if they're moving

(59:31):
fast they're gonna beat me.
So I have to slow them down andI find find no gi, especially
when you get sweaty.
It's so slippery, like you can'thold on to stuff as much and I
just kind of need the elementhere.
Lately I'd say the past fewmonths no, not the past few

(59:53):
months, Probably the past twomonths I've been training mostly
gi, but it's also been becauseof my schedule.
So Monday, Wednesday andFridays are gi for us, Tuesday
and Thursday are no gi, which Ithink is kind of the same for
you, and then Friday's open matand um yeah, it's, I like them
both.
I think I think we should, aspractitioners, train both.

(01:00:17):
You know it's okay to like oneover the other, it's okay to
like them both.
It's okay to like one over theother, it's okay to like them
both.
It's okay to train more in onethan the other.
But I do think you you need theexposure in both, because I
know there's some people outthere who may only train one and
if it's your schedule right,that's okay.
Yeah, but try maybe once amonth, getting you know at least
one no gi class in if you onlydo gi and and then also you know

(01:00:39):
flip that no gi class in if youonly do gi and and then also
you know flip that a gi class inif you only do no gi.

Amanda (01:00:45):
So it's kind of my thoughts on it yeah, yeah, those
are good thoughts, I agree,yeah, so so what's your favorite
submission right now?

Joe (01:00:54):
is there something that that's working for you really
well?

Amanda (01:01:00):
Mine's the Kimura.
Yeah, as I mentioned, I'm a bitof a pressure passer.
I mean, if I can get sidecontrol or even half guard and
I've got your arm, that's whatI'm going for.
Yeah, I don't know, it's just apersonal favorite for me.

(01:01:22):
I can't.
It's probably what I get myselfin the opportunity to do the
most um so if I can do it right.
I mean, if you look at my mycompetition round, you might be
laughing at me because I went inthere.
Oh, you know my my instructor.

(01:01:43):
He asked me if I had a plan andI'm like, yeah, I'm kind of
hoping she pulled guard, thatway I can get past the guard,
get side control and get theKimura.
That was my plan.
So why I went in there andfumbled the Kimura, I have no
idea.
It's just your brain shuts downwhen you're that nervous yeah,
well, you got to it.

Joe (01:02:03):
You know you did 75 of your plan, so you know that's
good I, I was gonna ask where,uh, from which position do you
usually go for the kimura?
I, um, so we have this guy atour gym.
He likes, likes Kimuras as well, and he will get you in his
closed guard and he'll go for ahip bump and make you post the

(01:02:25):
hand and then, as soon as youpost that hand, he shoots a
Kimura and it gets a lot of uswith that.
And I just you know the.

(01:02:48):
Kimura is such a great movebecause I mean there's at least
five different positions you can, you know, use it from, and I
think it's a very versatilesubmission.
That's a personal thing, yeahyeah, Well, what about your
guard?
Favorite guard?
You talked about De La Rivaearlier.
Do you have a favorite guard?

Amanda (01:03:06):
Well, de La Riva has been a big focus the last couple
of weeks.
I don't know that I have afavorite guard.
I love working close guard.
You know to your point you justmade you can get submissions
closed guard.
You know to your point you justmade you can get um submissions
.
You, you know, um.
I feel like that's a good wayto bait somebody oh, absolutely

(01:03:29):
sweets and hip bumps and you canget the kimura from there.
So, um, if I can get closedguard and have a lot of options
from there, then you know that'smy favorite thing.
Um, do I always get close guard?
I don't, not against my purplebelt opponents, and when I do, I

(01:03:49):
have like seconds, not you knowthe full minute.
I need to pull something off.
But um yeah, we've been workingDe La Riva pretty hard.
Um.
Um, yeah, we've been working DeLa Riva pretty hard.
Um.

Joe (01:04:09):
So I would say, since my personal goal is to improve, you
know, my jujitsu skills fromthe bottom, that's that's been a
main focus, yeah, I well, yeah,you said you like to play top,
uh, mostly, and I think it's,it's just just, it makes you a
more well-rounded, uh,practitioner.
If you have somewhat of abottom game, you don't have to
go to it every time.
Um, so I have a trainingpartner at um, the gym that I

(01:04:31):
like training with, and, uh,he's on instagram as papa gray
beard.
He's awesome, he's like, he'slike this 50 something year old
guy, but he's literally thestrongest person on earth.
It feels like sometimes, and,um, he's always on top.
You know, he's just, he's just,he gets you there.

(01:04:52):
But he started working a guardand we were training one day and
all of a sudden he pulled guardand I was so taken off by it.
I was like, oh, my God, what ishappening?
And he's like, yeah, I'mworking on my guard and I was
like I couldn't get out of itcause I wasn't expecting it, and
I was like, okay, this is new,um, but yeah, I think it's.
I think it's important to tohave at least something that you

(01:05:14):
can go to.
So, um, yeah, a few morequestions.
If you could roll with anybodyin jujitsu, alive or dead
celebrity family member.
What have you?
Who would you most like totrain a five minute round with?
That's a good one, right?

Amanda (01:05:39):
That's a good one, it is a good one, right, that's a
good one, it is a good one.
Um, I don't know, it'd bereally quick, but I am just kind
of really impressed with helenacravar's, like her style of
jujitsu, because it's soopposite of mine.
Yeah, of course I'd want topick her brain every step of the

(01:06:03):
way, but from a perspective, Ijust kind of want to see and
experience how she works, heropponents yeah, you know her
submissions and how she can offbalancebalance opponents in
different ways.
I mean that's for me, you know,priding myself on having like a

(01:06:25):
solid base.
I mean I know she'd off-balanceme in like a fraction of a
second, but maybe that's whyit's so fascinating is her guard
game is like ridiculous.

Joe (01:06:39):
So it'd be, interesting to see her work, uh um, in live
action, I think yeah, yeah,maybe I don't know if she
competes in ibjjf like uh, forlike jujitsu con, and well,
she's not masters, so but yeah,I mean you're out in.

Amanda (01:07:00):
Vegas, so you could, yeah, yeah.

Joe (01:07:03):
I mean, you're out in Vegas, you're out there with,
like everyone and the Jiu.
Jitsu, like all the big cool JiuJitsu stuff comes out there.
I uh, yeah, I think HelenaCravor would be awesome, uh, to
watch, for sure I?
Um, it's hard question for meto answer Um time I I was

(01:07:25):
talking to somebody about this.
I was talking about man.
It'd be great to, um, mayberoll with master jacob ray, uh,
when he was, you know, uh, aninstructor at alliance.
Then how cool would it be toroll with someone like holes
Gracie, um, you know, um, hodgerGracie, those those guys, uh,

(01:07:46):
there's just so many people LikeI think it'd be hard to just
pick one.
Um, I, I, I love rolling with myprofessor.
I mean, he's so we have a, youknow he's, he's ultra heavy, uh,
weight guy.
He's just, he is super strongand it's painful every second of
it.
But yeah, I, I enjoy.

(01:08:08):
I mean, I think I'm the onlyperson that that enjoys it.
Um, but it's because I talksmack during the whole round,
like I'm mad, talking trash tohim and he's just killing me,
arm bars and I'm just still andI, I don't know why I do it.
It's, it's a weird thing aboutme, but, um, we, we laugh during

(01:08:29):
the role.
We have fun.
You know he, he's not trying tolike pop my arm or anything,
but he's definitely making sureI don't cover his mouth again so
that that's uh we we have a lotof yeah, we have a lot of fun,
and, uh, he is just great.
I enjoy it.

Amanda (01:08:46):
So, um all, right, I don't get the chance to roll
with my instructor all that much, but he's a rooster weight um
AJ and a black belt, of course.

Joe (01:08:58):
And he's just insanely fast oh gosh yeah that that that
round would be over so quicklyyeah, I don't, I don't do well
with fast people, I just yeah,my favorite thing is to see him
like humble the kids, you know,and just kind of give them a
good workout.

Amanda (01:09:16):
And you know, and just kind of give him a good workout
and you know, as soon as theyturn their head to his direction
, he's, he's around the corner.
I mean he's.
He's incredibly freakishly fast.

Joe (01:09:28):
But yeah, yeah, fast.
People are are my kryptonite.
Um, that's why I have to haveto play half guard, have to slow
them down there's hey, justhold on a minute, stop moving.
Let me figure something outhere.

Amanda (01:09:40):
Um time to think.

Joe (01:09:42):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.
So let's talk.
Uh, I got a couple aboutrecruiting and this is this is
where we're gonna have some fun.
Um, so, regarding recruitingand candidate screening, um,
what is a recruiting red flag?
You can spot in three secondsflat when it comes to talking

(01:10:02):
with a candidate, like they'veapplied for the role, and on
paper things look really good atleast good enough for you to
call them but you get on thephone with them and then bam,
this is an instant red flag.
You know this is a no-go rightaway.
What would you see?
An instant red flag.

Amanda (01:10:22):
You know, this is a no-go right away.
What?
What would you see?
Um?
I?
Well, I do more high volumerecruiting I I usually ask them
why they left their lastposition.
Um, and I can always tell ifthat answer is genuine.
And if they're avoiding it,then that's a red flag.

(01:10:42):
You know, I mean it could beanything and I'm open-minded.
I mean, if they want to say itwas for personal reasons and
kind of you know they don't haveto elaborate too much on their
personal life.
But I guess when I just feellike it's not genuine, you can't
help but think what are theyhiding?

Joe (01:11:04):
and right, yeah, my mind always goes to.

Amanda (01:11:07):
They just stop showing up, you know yeah um.
So those are the kind ofcandidates that I see and I get
immediate red flags.
Um, we just need reliablepeople, so that's a big one in
my line, for sure yeah, well,that's, that's pretty much mine.

Joe (01:11:28):
And um, so if I ask the question, which is this is a
basic question uh, for those ofyou listening, your recruiter
more than likely is going to askthis in some form or fashion
why are you leaving?
Why are you looking?
That's what they're trying toget.
But if they say, if I say, okay, why did you leave this, this
role?

(01:11:48):
And they're like, well, youknow, the, the culture just
wasn't a fit for me.
You know, there was a lot oftension and drama.
I'm like, okay, well, that canhappen, right.
And then I ask them well, whydid you leave this role?
And it's the same answer, andthen the same answer for the
next.
Now we have, I mean, thechances of three positions being

(01:12:15):
bad because of a culture fit.
It's hard for me to believe yougot that wrong three times it
may be something going on withyou from a personality
standpoint or team fit or maybeyou're exactly if they have
self-reflection and then when Iwhen I was doing military
recruiting.
If they over inflated theirmilitary service like I used to
not when I would screen aveteran I I wouldn't tell them I

(01:12:37):
was a veteran and I would justask them about their service.
You know, hey, uh, what did youdo in the military?
And I've got some crazy storiesaround that.
Just the answers I've gotten.
So, um, but no final questionhere in the espresso round um,

(01:12:57):
what is your craziest candidaterecruiting story?
I said we were going to talkabout this.
What's your craziest?
Um, if you can pick one, yeah,yeah.

Amanda (01:13:11):
It's been a while since I had like super crazy, but for
some reason this candidate'sanswer like sticks with me, um
me, because I believe he washonest, but it was just too
crazy to really comprehend.
So one of the questions I askedis you know, tell me about what

(01:13:34):
reliability looks like to youin the form of attendance?
And he had had several jobs, um, you know, over the course of
maybe 10 years, um, maybe fouror five jobs.
And it blew my mind because hesaid you know, I've never had
accountability for attendance inany of my previous roles.

(01:13:57):
And I said, oh, okay, um, whatdo you mean?
And he said, well, I'm like, dothey not have an attendance
policy?
And he's just like, well, no,you know, they just I've never
been held accountable forattendance.
And that just kind of blew mymind.
Um, I didn't really know how totake that uh, as far as like,

(01:14:21):
are there really places outthere that don't have an
attendance policy?
But he in legit really genuinelydid not know what
accountability looks like forattendance and that's kind of
scary.
I hope most places are not likethat, but yeah, that's really
kind of the one that comes tomind.

(01:14:42):
But in my HR days I've seen alot of crazy things and I bet
you've got some stories Joe.

Joe (01:14:52):
Oh yeah, yeah, I have plenty, and the one I it will to
this day remain.
I think it will always remain.
Hopefully there won't besomething to top this, but it
remains the craziest one.
So I, I believe I was with AGS,the RPO, and I was doing

(01:15:16):
sourcing and had a high volumeroll.
I can't remember exactly whatit was anyway, um, I was, I was
recruiting and I was sending youknow.
It's a source, or sometimes youdo, uh, you use technology that
sends you know multiple emails,right and kind of.

(01:15:38):
You send 50 emails at a time.
What have you?
I was using a technology likethat.
I think it was linkedin,actually and uh, so this guy,
this candidate, emails me backand he said, uh, his first email
was how did you get myinformation?

(01:15:59):
dot, dot dot and I was like well, uh, this is, you know,
formerly introduced myself right, not from a mass kind of
template email.
And then uh told him what I waslooking for, her that I came
across is, um, you know hislinkedin profile and look like a
fit, would love to have aconversation with him.
Comes back.
One word, no, two words.

(01:16:20):
You're lying.
Dot, dot, dot.
Then this guy proceeds to tellme and threaten me that he's
gonna have his security teamfind me and kill me in front of
my family, kid you not?
swear I wished I would havesaved that email off the server

(01:16:42):
because people don't believe me.
But yeah, he said he was goingto show up and he said he was
going to beat me to death with ahammer, with a hammer in front
of my family, if I emailed himagain.
I sent it to my boss and wesent that up the chain because I

(01:17:03):
didn't know like this guy was,like this was an in-state, like
Georgia search.
I didn't know if this guy wasserious, I didn't know how much,
you know, I thought he was justblowing smoke.
But I'm not going to havesomebody show up at eight, 30 at
night with a hammer.
So, yeah, they sent this up andand they, like they contacted,
you know, the authorities.
Our security team at uh, ags orwhatever, I don't know what

(01:17:28):
team did it, um, but contacted,like the local authorities,
cause we had his address too,right, and we his resume was up
on file Only then we had hisaddress, we had everything and
we attached the email and hadsomebody go talk to this guy.
But can you imagine, I can't.

Amanda (01:17:47):
People are unhinged.

Joe (01:17:49):
Insane, insane.

Amanda (01:17:52):
Man, that's what I'm talking about.
For my HR days I've had somethreat assessments and some
people just you know, there's ascrew loose.
But yeah, recruiting and jobmarket hunting and interviewing
and all that stuff, it comesreal personal to people and you

(01:18:12):
just I don't know, I just don'tunderstand, you know yeah, like
you don't.

Joe (01:18:18):
You don't know who you're coming across, and I I would
have never thought, though, thatI would get something like that
.
You know, um, we're just tryingto help you find a job, and we
yeah, we got to get a job filled, but, I mean, we do want you to
find a good opportunity foryourself, and just to come back
with I'm going to kill you infront of your family, like how?

Amanda (01:18:38):
does it elevate to?

Joe (01:18:39):
that right, like just unsubscribe, say hey thanks, but
no thanks, not, you know, I'mgonna beat you to death with a
hand to save headache for futurerecruiters.

Amanda (01:18:51):
You wish there was a list of.
Hey, look out for this personoh my gosh, I put kind of like
there's a no-fly list you know.

Joe (01:18:58):
I put so many notes and the ATS on that guy Like run,
we'll threaten you.
Oh gosh, it was crazy.
That's so scary too, though,yeah yeah, and then I had one
candidate.
But remember, I told you I usedto not tell people about my
service in the military.

(01:19:18):
But I got this candidate whowas getting out of the military
or just gotten out of themilitary and, oh my gosh, the
story.
He spun that he was a commanderon a gun truck that protected
the president and, like, startednaming like he was.
He was a private in the RangerBattalion that was also part of

(01:19:43):
the old guard.
You know, the soldier walksback and forth in Washington,
like he did all of this.
And I'm like I'm thinking tomyself I used to process the
packets for that job.
You got to be like an E-5 orE-6 to even have that.
Then you're talking about a guntruck that protects the
president.
And then he started telling meabout he went to airborne school

(01:20:04):
and I had to stop in therebecause he was telling me he
went to airborne school in texasand I'm like, okay, everybody
that's airborne knows it's in ingeorgia, but anyway, it was
just yeah, god, it was just socrazy what he was saying and it
was, it was embarrassing and Ifelt bad for the guy because,
you know, I don't know but I hadto stop him and then he hung up

(01:20:28):
on me and ghosted me, of course, but she wasn't he didn't have
to ghost me.

Amanda (01:20:31):
I've had that many times where that's happened
where people.
Just you know, they know it'snot going well for them and they
just hang up sometimes that'sthe best way yeah, just um.

Joe (01:20:44):
Yeah, it's a very clear message.
I do it, but it does feeluncomfortable, right, or like I
think.
I think I have like and I hearit in in podcasting sometime
like mannerisms or crutch wordsand stuff like that.
But like when they are thewhole conversation because their

(01:21:06):
nerves kick in and they're likethey have See, I almost did it
they're like saying like, like,like, like, but they have this
crutch word they say over andover and over and over, and then
that's all you hear, and thenthey start picking up that
they're doing it.
I just feel so bad.

Amanda (01:21:22):
I'm like oh no yeah, yeah, you wish you could uh
reach through the like.
Hey, let's calm down, we'rejust two people talking about
yeah we're just talking.

Joe (01:21:31):
Let's have a chat.
Just tell me about what you didyour last.
Yeah, so kind of, as we closeout, I and I think this has been
amazing.
Again, thank you so much forcoming on, and I think our
listeners, who are primarilykind of newer in Jiu Jitsu are

(01:21:56):
they benefit a lot from hearingthese stories.
I think it helps keep themmotivated, keeps me motivated
having the conversation.
But if you could give one pieceof advice to someone starting
their first week of jujitsu orjust it could be a month,
whatever, but very new tojujitsu what would it be?

Amanda (01:22:28):
That's a good one.
I would say stick with it,obviously, um, you're gonna be
uncomfortable or maybe not.
You know, I had a, a brand newperson just last week and I was
her partner and I haven't seen abrand new white belt in like a
year, over a year and I told herI was trying to give her advice
.
I said I know it can be like Idon't know if I said

(01:22:48):
overstimulating or overwhelmingat first and she's like, oh no,
I'm not overwhelmed.
And I'm like, oh OK, well, yougo, girl, yeah.

Joe (01:22:57):
All right High five, I never know what someone's
thinking what's your threshold?

Amanda (01:23:02):
yeah, you don't want to assume that they're
overstimulated or overwhelmedjust because that was my
experience, but I just stickwith it.
There will be some things thatare uncomfortable.
Maybe you know whatever it is.
I mean the physical part, orjust your own self doubt, I mean

(01:23:22):
that comes into play a lot.
You know it does for me when Ifeel like I'm not progressing
and you feel that way a lot as awhite belt.
But then you step back andthink about all the new benefits
and or all the benefits ingeneral and, um, every day is a
new day.
You can put as much effort orkind of as little effort, I

(01:23:46):
guess, as you want into thesport and get out of it what you
put in, and my advice would bejust to embrace the journey.
It's about the journey, not thedestination per se yeah, yeah,
I love that.

Joe (01:23:59):
it's a great tagline I'm going to have to put that in the
description.
I um, what's what's next foryou?
What, what, what are youlooking to accomplish in the
next 30, 60, 90 days in jujitsu,or maybe a year?

Amanda (01:24:14):
Yeah, so, um, well, I I do.
I do want to compete one moretime before.
You know, during the summer, asI mentioned, I hope to do that
novice at Jiu Jitsu Con andmaybe get my blue belt.
You know that's a goal.
As I mentioned, I don't reallyput a lot of emphasis on stripes

(01:24:37):
and promotions, but I want toprogress.
You know, I didn't care aboutthat when I first started.
I was just kind of going forfunsies.
But I have this new ever, ever,since I've competed I do have
this new sense of rejuvenatingmotivation to get to class, to

(01:24:57):
do my best, to build my stamina.
I start going, you know, doubledays, maybe a morning and a
night class, a couple times aweek and.
I want to see progression.
You know I want to take care ofmyself.
I always refer, keep referring,to bad Jackie, you know, if it
doesn't benefit my jujitsu thenI shouldn't be doing it and I'll

(01:25:20):
take better care of my diet.
I want that for my boys, youknow.
I want them to be athletes andeat well and maybe we'll start
lifting weights as a family.
So I'm kind of all in right now.
I'm excited and my body'sholding up.
You know 41.
I haven't had any majorinjuries.

Joe (01:25:41):
I mean, I ripped half a nail yesterday, that's yeah, if
it breaks at the quick, like atthe finger itself, that's
painful, yeah yeah, it wasbleeding, it's everywhere.

Amanda (01:25:52):
It's literally ripped off.
Um yeah, other than that Ihaven't had knock on wood
anything substantial not evenlike a full hamstring.
I'm really healthy right nowand I want to keep that going
and kind of push myself.

Joe (01:26:07):
Yeah, yeah, I think that's good goals and I'll have to
connect you and Bad Jackie.
She's so great to kind of watchand follow along, like what
she's doing in her career.
And if you get to go toJiu-Jitsu Con, maybe you'll get
to go to Jiu Jitsu con, you knowyou'll, maybe you'll get to see
her compete and bring home that, that third title, which will
be insane.
Yeah, I, I, I think that it'sgood to set goals.

(01:26:33):
I did an episode of soloepisode not long ago about, you
know, goal setting and thingslike that.
It's important to have somethings in mind that you're,
you're striving to.
Otherwise, it it is, it's gonna, it's gonna feel deflating at
times and you're not going tosee your progress or others see
your progress.
In jujitsu I noticed quickerthan you do.
Um, I, I still don't say and Ihave no doubt in my mind, you're

(01:26:56):
going to get your blue belt, um, you know, in no time.
And then you know I dealt withimposter syndrome, like, oh, my
God, I'm a blue belt, these bluebelts are way better than I am.
And it's like, did I misssomething?
It's just, it's crazy, crazy,crazy, crazy.
So the listeners, how can theyget in touch with you.

(01:27:19):
You said you have an IG pagethat you're constantly watching
jujitsu stuff on.
How can people reach out forjujitsu commentary and also
maybe recruiting if they haveany questions?

Amanda (01:27:33):
Oh for sure, my IG handle is AmandaBears M-A-N-D-A
B-E-A-R-S.
It was a childhood nicknamethat my best friend's dad gave
me a long time ago.
Amanda Bears, I don't get a tonof DMs, so if you want to

(01:27:53):
connect, DMs are open.

Joe (01:27:57):
Careful what you wish for there, though.
It's crazy.
All the sales people, yeah,crazy downloads.
Oh my gosh it is.
It is insane.
I said last episode posted.
I haven't posted any episodesin in April.
This will be the first one inApril and I think I want to get
another one in, but somethinghappened and I'm looking at

(01:28:21):
actually I'm looking at the stat.
I have it on my phone becauseI'm weird.
Well, actually I'm not weird, Ijust I don't know, maybe I'm
self-loathing.
Self-loathing is where you don'tlike yourself.
I don't know, I just likelooking at them and watching it.
But it's in the past seven days.
There have been over 1600downloads in the past week and

(01:28:46):
like we were getting like 200downloads every like 30 days or
what have you.
But now it's just insane.
It's it's crazy you know, justcool, cool, just really cool
guests, you know like yourselfcoming on and I don't know,
maybe I don't know I don't knowwhat.
maybe I don't know.
I don't know what it is.
Maybe it's that cool intromusic, Cause I think I have some
pretty cool intro music.

(01:29:06):
I think it's really cool.

Amanda (01:29:07):
Yeah.
And keep the momentum going.
I'm going to tell everybody, Iknow yeah.

Joe (01:29:12):
Yeah, well, you know, amanda, thank you for you know,
coming on and supporting as aguest.
It's been great keeping up witheach other throughout the
couple years, and I'm sure we'regoing to keep in touch.
When you get your blue belt andyou win a few more competitions
we'll have you back on, becauseyou're absolutely proof that,

(01:29:35):
even though we're newer injiu-jitsu, you can still figure
out how to balance it all, howto progress and how to stay
passionate and passionate.
So so, thank you so much forcoming on.

Amanda (01:29:48):
So I'm a huge fan and I appreciate you inviting me on
and, yeah, I'm looking forwardto reconnect down the line or
keep in touch and appreciateeverything.

Joe (01:30:00):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Well, thank you.
And to all the white belts outthere who may be interested in a
future episode of white beltchronicles, reach out in the
caffeinated jujitsu.
Let's connect.
Amanda's info will be all inthe podcast notes for you to
click on and follow.
And be sure to uh, if you gotvalue out of today's episode, be

(01:30:25):
sure to you know.
Subscribe, drop a rating,follow the show.
What have you?
Leave a review and, like amandasaid, she's going to share with
her teammates, be sure to sharewith yours and remember to stay
safe, train, train smart andkeep your passion brewing.

Intro/Outro (01:30:43):
And that's the final tap on today's episode of
Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu.
A big thanks to all of ourlisteners, especially today's
insightful guest, for sharingtheir BJJ knowledge and tales.
If you felt that adrenalinerush and are hungry for more,
hit, subscribe, drop a reviewand spread the jujitsu buzz.

(01:31:06):
For show notes and to contactthe host, reach out to the email
provided in the podcastdescription and to join our
grappling community, head overto Instagram.
Get those geese.
Crisp your coffee strong andalways be prepared for the next
roll Oss.