031: The Episode Where We Talk About Marriage, Relationships, And Singleness. With Alec Duzan

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I hope the lighting is good.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Seems a little dark in here.
Okay, I got to loosen this.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Yeah, but then if it's really bright in here, the
camera is like doesn't?
You don't look as good oncamera.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Not you personally, but people.
Yes, thank you.

Speaker 1 (00:20):
You personally actually.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
I know I don't have to like loosen or tighten these,
right, they just go.
These right, they just go no,they just go that's nice wait,
I'm just kidding oh snap.

Speaker 1 (00:32):
Same thing as last time.
Just you just sit here and waitfor the magic to happen.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
I don't know how to start these things, so you're
supposed to just hit record andthen we just we'll just have a
conversation.
Then you just hit start.
In between, like Joe Rogan,there's no intro, you're just
talking.

Speaker 1 (00:46):
Yeah, that's what's going on right now, and you kind
of broke the fourth wall.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (00:50):
Yeah, it is recording .
People are listening right now.

Speaker 2 (00:53):
Yeah Well, hello everyone, Welcome to.

Speaker 1 (00:57):
I don't say the name just in case I ever have to
change it, because there isanother podcast with the same
name.
Oh really, it's some.
I think it's some girl thatdoes it nondescript podcast yeah
, and so if I ever have tochange it, then I can just
change how did you come up withthe name?
It's catchy actually, then doyou know who ruslan is?
I?

Speaker 2 (01:18):
mean ruslan, isn't?
I don't?
I feel like there's multiplepeople with that name ruslan,
ruslan, ruslan, how did you sayit?
Ruslan ruslan is he a rapper?
I feel like there's multiplepeople with that name Ruslan,
ruslan, ruslan, how did you sayit?
Ruslan Ruslan, is he a?

Speaker 1 (01:29):
rapper, yes, but he's also now like a Christian
YouTube podcast.
What?

Speaker 2 (01:34):
was his name.
Did his name used to be Russ?
I don't think so, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:39):
Maybe I'm thinking of somebody else, but he is a
Christian rapper.
Anyway, there was one timewhere somebody was because he
does like reaction videos, tolike all sorts of stuff, and he
was saying like, oh man, thisguy's kind of unhinged and he's
like, oh, somebody should comeup with that name unhinged
christian.
And I was like I'll do it.
So then I did it and it'scatchy.

Speaker 2 (01:59):
I love the confidence .
I'll do it.
Thanks, did you buy the podcaststuff before after?

Speaker 1 (02:05):
before.
Before this was.
This was like way after thiswas during the.
I don't know if you everlistened to the first podcast
that I had.

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Wow what a friend.
How many, how many have youdone?
I just this the list is growing, I'm scrolled but I have to do
stuff.
Whenever I do stuff, I have tobreak it up, because my drive is
only a half an hour.
You mean, how many episodes doI have on this one On Spotify,
yeah.
Or I mean everywhere.
How many episodes have you doneon the show?

Speaker 1 (02:35):
So on the audio side I have 29 episodes Nice and I'm
editing the 30th one.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Very cool.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
And then, this is going to be 31.
Very cool, and then on YouTube,because I didn't start with
video, I'm on 25.
So there's like four just audioepisodes and the rest are video
.

Speaker 2 (02:55):
You on SoundCloud.

Speaker 1 (02:57):
No.

Speaker 2 (02:59):
Come on, that's where everybody goes to make it big.

Speaker 1 (03:05):
SoundCloud.
Yeah, that's where the smalltown rappers make it, oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (03:11):
And the hoodlumites the hoodlumites, yeah,
hoodlumites.
A little piano keyboard and a Idon't even know Like their
AirPod speaker.
That's so lame Microphone it is.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Sad too.
Anyway, just a forewarning.
Sometimes there's this dogupstairs that barks.

Speaker 2 (03:30):
I did hear you say anything last time and you know,
with brandon you're like.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
I apologize for the dog I thought you said you
didn't listen to that one.

Speaker 2 (03:41):
You know I think I watched the preview because I
was.
I was interested because Ihaven't seen brandon in a long
time oh, the preview that itcomes up with on spotify's.

Speaker 1 (03:48):
That's perfect that they picked that park.
Some people know but yeah, soif it starts and I'm not hearing
it, then just tell me and I canlike turn the mics down, but
we'd have to be like reallyclose to them oh, if that
happens, people could get overit.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
I used to be when I did the Access podcast for young
adults.
It was I was so I can't believehow much work I put into that.
Like literally I would.
I would take, I would analyzeevery section of the audio and I
would cut out like the littlevoice blips and the weird

(04:23):
breaths and the nasal breathing.
And like the little voice blipsand the weird breaths and the
nasal breathing and likesometimes you're breathing
through your nose.
He has like this squeak.
Like I would cut out all ofthat and that's why it would
take me so long to edit thewhole thing, because I'm like
trying to cut out all theseimperfections and I'm like why
did I try so hard?
Why didn't I just like slap itin there?
That's what I do, that's whatyou should do, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Yeah, it says raw, like there's no cuts of anything
Unless.
Like there was one time withStefan where it was it's on that
episode that's going to becoming out Well, technically
that already came out, and likethere was buzzing going on.
So then we figured out how tostop it, and it took us a little
while, so I cut out while wewere trying to figure it out.
And it took us a little while,so I cut out while we were

(05:03):
trying to figure it out, butthat's.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, that's yeah.
We had a table kind of likethis.
It was just one of those roundlike six or eight-person tables,
the ones in the chapel.

Speaker 1 (05:11):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
And you had to be careful.
I was so paranoid abouteverything because they weren't
super solid.
So if you hit them with yourfist or something and the mic
stands are sitting on the table,everything radiates up.
So I'm like, okay, there's abig bang and there was one time,
um, I think we let alan recorda podcast with some people and I

(05:32):
wasn't there at all and so sheI think I set everything up and
I told her you just gotta hitthe red button.
and then they took like abathroom break and stopped
recording and came back andstarted again and I like had a
panic attack.
I'm like, what do I do now?
And I'm like, looking back, Iwas like I should have just
slapped the two together.
It would have been more organicbecause people know what's
going on.
But instead what I did is Itried to, I tried to cut the

(05:54):
conversation to where, like thelast point of it was like where
they were.
And then it was like oh, we gotto use the bathroom, let's stop
and like, okay, now I cut thatout and then like kind of cut
out the intro to coming back andtry to smash these together.
And it was just like I tried tomake it not sound like they had
a break and it was just.
It was kind of weird.

(06:15):
That is weird.
I don't know who listened tothat podcast or if any of the
work I did for that.
How long.
So how long were the episodeson average?
Well, we did.
There was like three categoriesso we had personal testimonies
of the people at Access, so itwas anywhere from.
Some of the shorter ones werelike 20, 25 minutes.

(06:39):
Some of the longer ones werepushing an hour.
So those ones were fun BecauseI was the only one who was
interviewing those, so it wasjust me.
Sometimes Bethany was therebecause she was entering the
first year, but most of the timeit was just me.
And then we had Bible incontext, so Jake would prepare a
lot of contextual evidence forthe text and then he would

(07:01):
present it with the verses, sothose ones could be like an hour
and a half.
Sometimes we try to do two inone day.
And then what was the other one?
Um, I think it was I don't evenremember something related to
like more hot cultural topics oftoday, which those could be

(07:21):
anything.
They're usually about 45 minutesplus yeah, that'd still be a
long time to edit all the itliterally was so and you know,
we just had this little tinyrecorder that would sit in the
middle and there was likefrequency problems with the cord
, so you hear like random buzzif, like, somebody put their
phone on the table and it's justlike I try to cut all that

(07:42):
stuff out and I should have beenman who cares.
And then I'm not salty aboutthis.
I'm very happy that theirplatform is taking off.
But as soon as, like when Ileft and um, when jared started
really taking over the podcastbecause he's the pastor now,
like av was like yeah, we'll doit all for you.
They had a whole, well, theybuild a podcast station, yeah,
kind of upper balcony, and sostuff is just set up, all well

(08:03):
they build a podcast station.
Yeah, I saw that Kind of on theupper balcony, and so stuff is
just set up all the time.
They have a nice area, you knowbackdrop and lighting, and then
the AV team just like slaps itall together and they post it.
And I'm like man, there waslike three to five hours of
every Tuesday for a year and ahalf.

Speaker 1 (08:22):
Yeah, it takes forever to edit.
I can't even imagine doingexcuse me, I can't even imagine
doing all the little snifflesand stuff.
I would not, especially whenmine are sometimes two hours.
No way it is a lot.

Speaker 2 (08:44):
It really depends on how you're listening to, because
it's different in headphones tothe car to like a Bluetooth
speaker, Like most of that stuff.
Now that I think about it,nobody's ever really going to
pick up on, but because I'mlistening to it with the raw
file and hearing everything,it's like ugh, it was a good
time.
It was a good learningexperience.

(09:04):
I don't know if I could do itagain today, so I don't know if
I remember anything, but yeah,did you, for, did you?

Speaker 1 (09:09):
so you had video though, right?

Speaker 2 (09:11):
no, I had no video oh , okay it was now, so now they
have audio and video for yeah, Iknow, we just slapped.

Speaker 1 (09:18):
I thought the podcast here it's cool, they made it,
but it looks like aninterrogation room oh, I haven't
even really watched it becauseI haven't used on camera.

Speaker 2 (09:25):
It's just like a blank room I don't know some of
the ones I thought I thought itwas good, but I also haven't had
social media in like two years,so I have no idea what it looks
like now, dude you got to geton social media no, I'm just
kidding.

Speaker 1 (09:40):
Yeah, that's a joke I'm not on it either.
I only use it to post and thenI delete the app.
So I'll like post my podcastlike a up and coming clip or
like the short or the real forit, and then just do it all from
your computer I could sign intofacebook or whatever.

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Um do you upload to use anchor?
Just drop it on there and itsends it everywhere for you.

Speaker 1 (10:04):
Oh, I should look into that, huh.

Speaker 2 (10:08):
You should.
It was one of the things that Iwas looking into when we did it
, because it's free, I think,and there are a lot of people
who literally just have theirphones, they talk into it, drop
it and it sends it to all theplatforms.
Dude, my allergies are killingme.
I have so much phlegm, it'sridiculous.

(10:28):
I was sneezing in my cubicleall day and I don't have an
office like everybody else, so Iwas just like really
self-conscious, just sittingthere blowing my nose and I was
sick like two weeks ago.
And judy the receptionist,she's like alec, you don't sound
very healthy.
Thank you, judy.
Thank you so fall allergies.

Speaker 1 (10:46):
What is that?
Like ragweed, it's more justlike dust, a really big problem
with dust well, I'm surprisedyou ain't sneezing in here,
because I never dust this placewhat bachelor does how long?
Have you lived here, nice uh uh, about a year, november will be
a year.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Gotcha.
So this is year old dust overhere.
Yeah, 12 year, 12 monthresident.
I like this shit picture.

Speaker 1 (11:12):
Isn't it cool Painting.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
All right, it's in a picture frame.
Get off my back.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Anyway, I was going to say a nice segue into what
we're talking about with thewhole bachelor word.
Oh, yes, oh, you weren't tryingto do that.
No, not at all.
Oh, dude, I thought you werelike, I thought you were with it
.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
I'm just naturally that smooth yeah.

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Okay, so obviously I'm 30, single and you're 25.

Speaker 2 (11:40):
Dude come on 26?
.
There you go.

Speaker 1 (11:41):
Yeah, I'm 26.
You?

Speaker 2 (11:42):
25.
Dude, come on 26.
There you go, yeah, I'm 26.
You weren't that long 26.

Speaker 1 (11:46):
Yeah, I was a year off.
It's usually closest to the agewithout getting any higher as
the winner, so I was a year off.

Speaker 2 (11:54):
You were the only one playing.

Speaker 1 (11:55):
Yeah, but if somebody else was playing they would
have to either say 25 and a half, or something else.

Speaker 2 (12:00):
That's true, and I would have won.
The rules of that cultural gamewere lost on me, but thank you
for explaining them.

Speaker 1 (12:05):
You're welcome.
Anyway, you're 26 and married.
I'm 30 and single.
How does that happen?

Speaker 2 (12:14):
Dude, I don't know anybody single over 30.
How did you do it?
Can't even finish that one witha straight face.

Speaker 1 (12:23):
Really that's mean it was a joke.

Speaker 2 (12:25):
It really hurts Really, that's mean it was a
joke.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
It really hurts.
Yes, I know, it was a joke.

Speaker 2 (12:29):
It's very common and there's no pressure for anybody
who's over 30 and single.

Speaker 1 (12:33):
Oh, I thought it wasn't very common in the
Christian community.
I thought a lot of people weregetting married younger.

Speaker 2 (12:41):
It's both ends of the spectrum, right, because you
can look and you can find abunch of people who are 18 and
crazy in love and they'regetting married and they got two
kids by 20, you know.
And then you can go to theother end of the spectrum where
you're, you know, pushing 32, 35and you're still hanging around
the young adult group.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
I'm not gonna name any names, but yeah, we won't
name any names, but I know.

Speaker 2 (13:05):
If the shoe fits, you got to wear it.
I'm just saying you don'texactly fit, Not you, but the
people who fit the shoe.
They don't exactly fit theyoung adult stereotype anymore,
the ministry, but anyway.

Speaker 1 (13:20):
Are you saying because they're single or
because they're not single?

Speaker 2 (13:23):
No, because they're over 30.
It's just like the young adultsLike once you right.
Hopefully, the naturalprogression of being involved in
a church community is like youget involved wherever, from the
day your parents bring you tochurch, like kindergarten, or
you know you show up one day andyou're in high school.
Or you know you're like justnew to the faith and you show up

(13:43):
and you're like 32, but you'venever been to church before.

Speaker 1 (13:47):
And young adults- is like yeah, there's a little bit
of nuance.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
And that's where.
That's where it's like you gotto have grace for people because
you want them to feel welcome,and you also got to protect the
flock.

Speaker 1 (13:59):
Yes, out of the age range, yes, yes.
And then after a while, you youknow there's got to be some
tough lows, like you're 35, butI can think of numerous people
who fit that those details andhave been saved for quite a

(14:21):
while now.

Speaker 2 (14:22):
And why don't they like what's the protocol?
That's topic for a differentday, because I think it's
different with every church.
I don't think no church thatI've been to has figured it out,
which has not been that manychurches, so I'm really not an
expert.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
Yeah, and it would be kind of hard to be like hey.

Speaker 2 (14:35):
Yeah, it just takes powerful people, conversations
or, in the world's terms, justgot to be an adult about it,
like hey, let's be real, likethese are soft limits, but
you're really getting outside ofthat age range.
But anyway, that's not what wewant to talk about for today.

Speaker 1 (14:51):
Yeah, well it still has to do with singleness and
relation.
But yeah anyway, marriage andsingleness.
So my question would be, tostart it off, is how did you
know when you were ready to bemarried?
No, a better question how didyou know when you were ready to
be in a relationship while youwere single?

Speaker 2 (15:13):
Well, how would I know that I was ready?
Um, I suppose I should take itback to, at least for my
experience, like I've alwayswanted to be, I've always wanted
to be a dad.
So I kind of equated that withI guess you could say right,
that's obviously a progression,would be, you know, you get in a

(15:33):
relationship, you get married,you become a parent yeah,
hopefully.
Right In a non-sinful way, whichanyway.
So like I've always wanted tobe a dad, I've always wanted to
be a husband, anyway.
So like I've always wanted tobe a dad, I've always wanted to
be a husband, and so like, forme, I always kind of knew like
that was one of my goals how Iknew I was ready.
I don't say I ever, I don'tthink I ever really knew that I

(16:00):
was ready.
I think I just came to a placewhere I wanted it so bad and you
know, as everybody who desiresto be in a relationship does,
you know, they get to a pointwhere it's like God, I've been
single forever.
You know what's the problem,what's happening.
Is it me, is it you?
What's the plan?
You know what's going on For mein 20, I think it was 2018.

(16:22):
I don't think you were on theaccess team yet I haven't told
this story to a lot of people soyou might not know, but it was.
We went to I think it wasTraverse City and it was.
I know Andy was there.
Nathaniel, like Chansky, Ithink it was 2017 or 2018

(16:43):
because I was still working myjob at the boat repair shop yeah
, because I always hear storiesabout that trip, but I think it
was like one of the only onesthat she ever yeah, that tiffany
ever did do.
It was amazing, but we werethere for like a day and a half.
I think we spent one night thereand we did a spent one night

(17:10):
there and we did a monastic fast, which is where you don't say
any words for 12 hours.
I mean you can do it forwhatever amount of time, but for
us it was 12 hours, so itstarted at midnight.
We didn't have any conversationin the morning.
I remember that, nathanielbecause you don't eat any food
either he made a cup of coffeeand then he realized that he
couldn't have coffee.
He was so sad he had to pour itdown the drain.
But it was either the nightbefore or the night of.

(17:30):
I was, we were all together, wewere like, praying, worshiping,
and Tiffany asked us if wewanted to like share anything
that God revealed to us.
And shortly before that, it wasme and Laurenuren, um to bore,
previously lauren to grah.
We were.

(17:50):
We were sitting on opposite endsof this couch and, um, I was
sitting there, I had my eyesclosed and I was on.
I was on the the right side ofthe couch and I felt somebody,
um, like little, scooching nextto me.
I had my eyes closed but Icould feel somebody's leg
against my leg, like you'recrammed into, like church pews.

(18:12):
I felt somebody like put theirarm under my arm and then put
their head on my shoulder.
There's no other way that I candescribe it.
It just felt like somebody cameup and snuggled next to me and
I opened my eyes and there wasnobody there.
I literally thought Lauren cameand snuggled next to me and I
opened my eyes and there wasnobody there.
I thought Lauren came.
I literally thought.
Lauren came and snuggled on meand I was like Lord, what is
going on?
And he was like how do I saythis?

(18:37):
I'm trying to remember exactlywhat he said.
It was like that's your wife.
And I was like what?
Like that's your wife?
And I was like what?
And he was like she's on herway, but she's also waiting for
you, and I was like what in theworld?
And I'm just like I got chills,shivers, like I'm kind of going
crazy.
Tiffany's, like anybody want toshare.

(18:58):
I'm like nope, this is not fory'all, like this is just for me.
And so that was really exciting, but that was 2018.
I didn't get married until 2022.

Speaker 1 (19:11):
As we know, yeah, as we know, I was there.

Speaker 2 (19:15):
You were, you were, you really were.
So I mean, that was four yearsthat I waited, that I had a word
that I knew somebody was likecoming, but I also knew that I
had work to do, that I had aword that I knew somebody was
coming, but I also knew that Ihad work to do, that I had
preparations to make, and so forme it really wasn't knowing
that I was ready, it was moreknowing that I was.

(19:36):
At that time I knew what I wassupposed to be doing versus who
I was looking for.
I was going to Axis, I wasinterning, I was looking for,
like I was, I was going toaccess, I was interning.
You know I was, I was workingout and you know all those
things have a factor to do.
But it was a lot more personalgrowth, like Jake had me go to
quest, which is a men's eventwhere you basically do it's a

(19:58):
lot of inner healing.
You know, spiritual type.
Spiritual type stuff where youknow you, just if you have
really deep wounds, you know,they kind of just go digging for
them and help you find healing,for stuff that it's more for,
like married men whose kind oflives are falling apart.
But it was really impactful forme.
So I was just really solid,like I had become really solid

(20:20):
in my faith, confident in who Iwas as a person, in my identity
in Christ, and I was no longerfixated on finding a person and
I was more just fixated onpursuing after what God wanted
me to go after in that season.
And I feel like in this culturewe hear that a lot, but it's my
personal experience.

(20:41):
So you know, as far as what Idid, it wasn't anything in in
trying to like it wasn't thiscategory of things.
I was checking off a list andI'm like, okay, I have to be a
better boyfriend.
Like I gotta my my body's gottabe in tip-top shape.
You know, I gotta look the bestthat I can.
I gotta, you know, try to makethe most money right now that I
can, because I was interning.
I wasn't making anything.
I'm very blessed to be paid forthat at all.

(21:04):
It was more just like okay, god, am I confident in my identity
in Christ as a son of God?
you know, as an heir and am Iready for what the Lord has next
for me, whether it's a spouseor not.
So that was kind of my journey.
I mean mean I had gone throughso a lot of, a lot of healing, a

(21:28):
lot of growth.
Um, my, my, my now wife beth.
We interned together and wewere not interested in each
other at all, like I was.
I mean, physicality does comedown to it or it doesn't, it's
not what it's all about, but itdoes have a part to play, right.
So I was, I think, probablypushing 250 pounds, like I
wasn't, you know, I mean, in theworld I always thought you were

(21:50):
really hot I still think you'rehot.
Thanks, you're welcome, but I'mtaken.
So oh so, but I mean it.
I did, you know, like lose 50pounds and that helped, you know
I was just getting my lifetogether, um, and I think that's
when beth started, that that'swhen beth started to notice, is

(22:13):
when I started to kind of growup a little bit.
Yeah, you know, have like a bigthing.
A big thing that women areattracted to is just men who are
driven, men who have goals, notnecessarily people who have
accomplished things right.
There is a level of a shallowerperson who is interested in
somebody who has money already.

Speaker 1 (22:32):
But you know, I think there's more to well, yeah,
that's where, like, the guitarplayer comes in, right like, the
girl always gets the guitarplayer quote-unquote, just
because, even if they don't havemoney, it's just like somebody
who's doing, a man who's doingsomething, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Basically Somebody who's passionate about something
, who has a work ethic.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:54):
Even though it may not be bringing in, you know,
hundreds of thousands ofmillions of dollars.
You know having a drive isattractive, you know having a
mission is attractive and so forme I think that was it.
Having having a mission isattractive and so like that, for
me that was, I think that wasit.
Like I had a mission, I knewwhat I was working towards.
And that's kind of when theLord kind of opened my eyes
because Beth had we were reallygood friends, I think.

(23:15):
The fact that we were notinterested in each other and we
had so much alone time togetherbecause we were probably
together two to three days aweek, like multiple hours a day
we just got to know each otherreally well and she she did not
take a second year internship, Idid and then she came back
actually on staff as the um,like the office admin or the the
young adult admin.

(23:36):
So we kind of started to seeeach other again a lot more and
I was really excited to have herback.
And then there was one day atAccess, I remember I was like
wow, she's really attractive.
And then that just kind ofstarted this journey of me being
interested in her and she wasactually interested in somebody
else, but just pursuing her andagain playing that long game,

(23:57):
it's like, okay, god, I reallylike this person, but I'm
focused on you.
And if it doesn't take awayfrom also what I'm trying to do
with god because I think that'sanother big thing right is when,
when you have that drive andanother person has a drive, and
you're both working forsomething towards the lord and
it's in a similar capacity or inor.

(24:18):
It doesn't have to be similarcapacities, but in ways that
will complement you rightbecause differences complement,
right.
That's what makes us better iswhen we have differences.
And so you know, however godorchestrates us, he brings, he
brings us together and, and itwas really cool, it was not easy
.
You know, we started dating.
I think we dated for like aweek.
Then she broke up with mebecause she was scared, which I

(24:38):
confronted her on, and then wedated for like six months and
then we got married, which it'sbeen amazing.
We're going on two and a halfyears now It'll be three years
in February, so and two kids.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
That's a lot, two kids.
How long did it take betweenthe week and like after you were
broken up with?

Speaker 2 (24:58):
I think it was like a month or so, like three weeks
to a month, three to five weeks,because you were there, we were
hanging out at y'all's houseand I didn't want to like not be
around her still, because I wastrying to win her back, you
know.
So I was still inviting her tothings and even though I was
like deeply hurt, I wasn'tputting anything.
I didn't have any like ill willagainst her, because I'm like

(25:21):
in my mind like this is the girlthat I'm really infatuated with
.
You know, I wouldn't say inlove necessarily but I was just
yeah, I was just really.
I was really into her, you know,and I didn't want to throw that
away because we had such agreat.
That's the thing it's like.
If you go the route, uh, or noteven if I say if you go the

(25:41):
route, if you are friends withsomebody and you find there's an
equal attraction from bothparties, and then you get
together and it doesn't work out, you kind of have to either you
try to work at it and make itwork out, or you have to totally
just break it off, like in myopinion.

Speaker 1 (25:59):
I am not being friends.

Speaker 2 (26:00):
Yeah, like you can't Like.
If like there's no in between,it's like you can't like.

Speaker 1 (26:04):
if like there's no in between, it's like you get back
together and it works out, orso then, what's your excuse?
Was yours like you're hoping toget her?

Speaker 2 (26:09):
back.
I was trying to get her back,yeah and then what if it
wouldn't have worked?
Out.
I would have had to let her goand move on like there's no
point in in you know groveling,and just I mean you.
You mourn right, becausethere's real attraction, there's
real connection and you lostsomething.

Speaker 1 (26:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
And then you have to move on.
You know you can't just.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, but a month is a long time trying to get
somebody back.
I would say one time I'd belike this is what I want, and if
you change your mind, then callme Well it's also more nuanced,
because I I knew that she wasjust scared to be in a
relationship.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
She was just scared of the commitment so sometimes
girls lie yeah, sometimes theydo.
But I was right about this onebecause she admitted it.

Speaker 1 (26:57):
She was like, yeah, you're right yeah, clearly,
because you are married now weare.
Yes, you, you are, you wereright.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
But it's not always the case.
I mean, like, what I'm tryingto say is like if you break up
and there's a mutual consent toget back together to try and
work on it, great, go for it.
But if both parties are notinterested in doing that.
You know, maybe one side is Atsome point you got to cut your
losses because you can't, youjust can't live that way.
I mean you get is at some pointyou got to cut your losses

(27:23):
because you can't, you justcan't live that way.

Speaker 1 (27:25):
I mean you get it yes , and please do not try to be
her friend to eventually win herback, because you're gonna more
than likely be her friend andthen she's gonna start dating
somebody else and then you'regonna be hurt all over again
because yeah, because youthought something was gonna
happen.

Speaker 2 (27:43):
No, you can't go back into that.
If you can be that person thatcan separate that friendship, be
like hey, we're going to keepthis relationship in a box over
here called friendship, and I'mnot going to have anything to do
with romantic.
If you can keep your mind splitthat way, go for it.
But I'm not going to recommendit because I can't.

Speaker 1 (28:03):
I don't think guys can usually be just friends with
girls.
It just normally doesn't workout that way.
Yeah, girls for some reason canbe friends with dudes.
It doesn't really matter.
But I just don't notice thatmost friend groups it's one girl
and like guys that's been ourexperience.

Speaker 2 (28:22):
I mean, like you see it on tv, right, where there's a
bunch of, there's a big groupof friends, like literally the
show friends or you knowwhatever.
How I met your mother new girl.
I guess new girl's a badexample because that's a bunch
of guys and one girl, but I justdon't think it's a model well
right, because I do thinkthere's an aspect of like we
need brothers and sisters inchrist and you know, segregating
us by gender I don't think is.
You know, segregating us bygender I don't think is

(28:44):
beneficial, you know.

Speaker 1 (28:46):
Well, there's obviously.
I don't mean like you can neverspeak to a girl Like I speak to
.
If I go over to Eli's, I'mgoing to speak to his wife and
I'm like friendly towards her.
But I'm talking more like whenyou're one-on-one with a girl,
like sometimes she can think ofthat as just friends.
Whereas I think I do think thatgirls have a greater capacity to

(29:07):
do that hang out one-on-onewith a guy and not catch
feelings than guys have thatcapacity, yeah, like for the
most part and obviously there'salways exceptions and different
stories but if a guy is going tohang out with a girl alone,
he's excited, he's like this isgonna be definitely is.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
There's no exception to that, unless you're gay.
Yeah, unless you are gay,that's true, but you can be gay,
you can do.
You Just love Jesus and knowthat he's your Lord and Savior.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Well, you can't be gay and love, I mean you can be.
If you're not pursuing that, Iwould yeah exactly.

Speaker 2 (29:45):
I would rather be gay and love jesus and be gay and
not love jesus.
So but like to do, when I saylove jesus, I say to the point
of following him as lord andsavior and sacrificing your will
and not living out your fleshlydesires.
Let me add that caveat, becausethat can get really tricky and
sticky yeah, and I'm not aboutto.
Most people would hear what yousay and then be like, oh, yeah,
don't take, it's got anotherprogressive on the podcast might

(30:06):
as well call me flow, becauseprogress, yeah, exactly no, no,
I'm saying like I think thereare people who struggle with all
kinds of different sins,whether it's, you know, sexually
, or you know, drug addiction,alcohol buying, stealing, like
it's all right.
But if you're going to practicethat and call Lord Jesus your

(30:27):
Lord and Savior, thensomething's going to change,
because either you're not reallya Christian or you're just
trying to hop the fence and it'snot going to work out for you
in the end.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
Yeah, don't be lukewarm.

Speaker 2 (30:37):
But anyway back on topic.
Yes, oh man.

Speaker 1 (30:43):
Where were we?
You were talking about themonth.

Speaker 2 (30:47):
Um, that's kind of where we were yeah, I mean, it
took, it took, um, I think itwas three weeks.
I think it was three weeks, uh,because I I just knew I was
like I'm not letting this girlgo that easy, you know like I
wrote her a letter and, um, Iwas like, hey, I just think
you're afraid, you're scared,you know, like you don't have to

(31:08):
run from anything, like I'mhere for you.
And she was pissed.
She was pissed because I wasright.
She didn't want to admit that,though, and then she came back,
I think a couple you know.
She told me she was in, she'spraying and, you know, kind of
working out with God.
She's like like, yeah, you'reright, you know I'm scared, and,
um, she kind of worked throughthat, and then she ended up

(31:29):
asking me out for another date,because we actually went on one
date.
Um, let's see, a month beforewe we dated for that stint of
seven or eight days, we went onone date, and she's like, no,
I'm good.
And then, um, I think, what wasit did she?
She asked me out yep, that'swhat it was.

(31:52):
She asked me if I want to go onanother date, and then it was
basically like official the nextday, and then we dated for like
a week, and then she broke upwith me.
So, and then we took that monthand try to figure things out.
We, we really tried to cut allcommunication with each other,
clearly not no, I mean like forthat time because, um, during,

(32:12):
like after the week, so afterthe week of dating, she broke up
with me.
I had a lot of questions.
It was really her.
I wrote her the letter.
She was pissed.
She came back.
She was like you're right, I'msorry.
And we were kind of like hangingout throughout all of this,
still with our friend group, andI think it was I think it was

(32:35):
Kaylin, who called us out.
She's like what are you guysdoing?
Are you dating?
Are you not dating?
And so we mutually came to anagreement that we were not going
to have any communication witheach other, like we're not going
to text each other, we're notgoing to hang out together.
You know we'll both go toaccess, but we're not going to
have any conversation.
You know, like we'll might sayhi.
And that was really hard.
That was really hard Cause Ijust really wanted to talk to

(32:57):
her and it was in that time thatshe realized that you realized
that you know when we're not,when we're not talking at all.
She texted me.
She's like I really misstalking to you.
And I was like well, this is agood sign.
And I was like I miss talkingto you too, but I still didn't.
You know.
It was like one more textmessage after that.
I was like, hey, we still, westill can't talk.
Um, I think I said somethinglike that.

(33:21):
And then it was I think it'slike 22 days, and then it was it
was at access.
She asked if, um, it wasactually I remember the day she
was like can we get backtogether?
It was June 17.
Cause I was leaving for awedding, so that we actually
started dating that Thursdaynight.

(33:42):
And then Friday morning I leftto go to North Dakota for one of
my cousin's weddings, which shewas originally supposed to go,
but then she broke up with me sothose plans went out the window
.
But yeah, so that wasinteresting.
So we texted a crap ton overthe two days, I think, that I
was gone and then we just andthen it was smooth sailing from
there.

Speaker 1 (34:02):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:03):
Yep, it was smooth sailing from there for the most
part.

Speaker 1 (34:07):
That's crazy, because I remember you took a picture
with each other at fisherman'sisland and the next time I saw
you it's a campground way upnorth.
We went there, you, andy, and Ione time did we really on a
sunday we went to go see torchlake, yeah yeah, and then we
went to that.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
Yeah, I took her to torch lake, yep, and then we
went okay in that picture andthe next time I saw you you were
like yeah, we're broke, we'redone, yeah the most embarrassing
part is that we made itfacebook official and then, like
three days later, had to takeit, because it was like so if we
dated for a week, I think, likethree or four days in, we made
it official on facebook and thenI think that's what really

(34:45):
scared her, because then also,you know, you get like 200 likes
on your Facebook posts andeverybody's like, oh my gosh,
congratulations, and then youhave to take it down.
It's like oh, that isheartbreaking.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
That would be.
That would be more embarrassingfor me than heartbreaking.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
At least in the beginning.
It was really embarrassing.

Speaker 1 (35:02):
The heartbreak would come later, for sure, but the
embarrassment the first daywould be like I would go hide.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
Cause this was also around the time of, like you
know, my sister is graduatinghigh school, so we have, you
know, graduation parties and I'mseeing a lot of old people from
the high school that I went to,and so some people are like I
got a lot of, oh, you got agirlfriend.
Actually we broke up and thenwe got back together and I was
like, oh, I heard you guys brokeup, actually we're back
together.
So I had multiple conversationson both sides.

(35:34):
That would be hard.
Yeah, it was funny, definitelya little whiplash, but it all
worked out in the end.
If marriage is the end goal?
Yeah, it should be.
Well, not necessarily.
I mean, if you don't want toget married, there's no pressure
, as much as church people mightput on you.

Speaker 1 (35:54):
Well, I think if you're dating, it shouldn't just
be dating for fun.
That's true.
You're just like going aroundfrom person to person just for
like funsies I think it's truelike I don't think.
Yeah, I think we do like to puta lot of pressure on like you
have to get married, but I justdon't think you should be like
playing with people's hearts.
That's all.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
That's all I'm saying and I mean, in a sense, it's
like you can't eliminate thataspect of it.
You know, completely right, you, you, you date, you get to know
somebody and if it doesn't workout, it doesn't work out
obviously, you know, dependingon how much of a connection
you've established yeah likethere's going to be heartbreak
and you're going to have tomourn and grieve and get over it

(36:36):
, whether it's like a month orit's a, it's a year.
There was a girl that I didn'teven really date previously.
Um, we were both interested ineach other and she went off to
college and then, you know, Iwas kind of like holding out oh,
I like her.
She said, she likes me.
This is crazy, you know.
And then she starts datingsomebody else at college and I'm
just like, oh, that is that'sright, ice cold, that's ice cold

(36:59):
, you know.
And again, like I don't, Idon't talk to her anymore.
Like I think I'm at the pointnow where I don't have any hard
feelings, but it took me a longtime to get there.
Like it took me two years toreally be over her, and then it
took me a probably another yearto be at the point where it was

(37:22):
like okay, I can have aconversation with you.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
Yeah, if it just like happens, she's in the same room
.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:28):
Yeah, and it was.
You know, it wasn't easy.
Like she came back right andsome people might know who I'm
talking about.
She might hear this one day andlisten, which is okay, um and I
feel bad I was gonna say we'renot gonna say names.
No, I mean, we can.
It probably doesn't matter butyeah, that's true if the
forgiveness is there yeah, and Ifeel bad because because I kind

(37:49):
of went back and forth, right,because I was still healing,
there's like at some point it'slike, okay, I still do kind of
want to talk to her, and at somepoints it's like, okay, I do
not anything to do with her,like I'm going to give her the
cold shoulder, like I just can'tlike it's way too painful.
And, um, there was one time itwas recently she came back and I
was I didn't know anybody elsearound and I was able to have a

(38:09):
conversation with her and, just,you know, kind of ask her
what's going on in her life andoh, so it did happen.

Speaker 1 (38:16):
Yeah, oh okay what did?

Speaker 2 (38:18):
what happened?
like us talking yes, you'retalking yeah, like just being
like, just having a normalperson conversation, nothing,
nothing crazy, like why did youpick up with me, you know, like
early?
It wasn't even that because weweren't even dating, it was just
, you know, like a crush, but itwas still real, you know, and I
don't think we can devalue thatwith people, because I think

(38:38):
there's a lot of that,especially in church, because
everything has to be so like, Idon't know, babied almost.
It seems like, you know,there's just so many eyes
watching and so we have to besuper.

Speaker 1 (38:51):
You know, I'm trying to say like no yeah, I know
you're trying to say, I justdon't think that's the way it
should be yeah, no, not at all,but it just is it just is yeah
it just is in church culture,which is like the pressure that
church puts on people to getmarried, is is, oh my goodness,
ridiculous.
I know, I know that all toowell.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Especially here.

Speaker 1 (39:11):
I mean, I don't know if it's different in other
places, but it might be a littledifferent because we are in a
major Bible Belt in.

Speaker 2 (39:17):
West Michigan, but I mean the church all over.
I think is pretty safe togeneralize that People have
elevated marriage abovesingleness, I think to an
unhealthy point.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yes To a very dangerous point.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
I would say To the point that people who are not
married or you know, just can'tseem to make a relationship work
or find somebody that's willingto stick it out with them.
It's just like they just feelso awful.
That's like why?
Like?
Why God, like my wholecommunity, is telling me I need
to get married, like everybodyelse is getting married, like

(39:54):
what?
What's wrong with me?
What's happening?
I don't know.
It's just too much pressure andit's dumb, because I don't
think that I don't think thateverybody's called to get
married.
I don't think everybody has toget married and I don't think
there's anything wrong withbeing single until the day that
you die.
That doesn't mean that youcan't have valuable community
and enriching community.
That makes you feel fulfilled.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Paul even says that he wishes more were like him to
be able to do the works of God,because when you are married,
you do have to.
You have other things to tendto.
You have to tend to your kidsand your wife, and there's
nothing wrong with that.
It's actually like God is inthat too.

Speaker 2 (40:35):
The Bible advocates for both sides.

Speaker 1 (40:37):
Yes, equally, I would say, Because they're both.
What's the word?
I can't think of it.

Speaker 2 (40:45):
Vocations.
Whatever you're looking for,Sacred.

Speaker 1 (40:48):
Yeah, they both feed into the kingdom is the best way
I can say.
It Vocations Whatever you'relooking for, sacred.
Yeah, they're both feed intothe kingdom.
That's the best way I can sayit.

Speaker 2 (40:53):
They both have a place.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
Yeah, Because when you're raising kids, obviously
you're raising them to beChristian and the more kids that
are Christian in society, thesociety grows and it's just
self-explanatory.
But then when you're marriedit's also harder to go around.
Would it be harder for you todo podcasting?

(41:15):
It's very hard.
Yeah, I mean even just oneepisode tonight.
But I'm saying it'd be evenharder for you to.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Oh, like if I were to do a podcast of my own.

Speaker 1 (41:25):
Yeah, and have people over.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
So are you talking about while being married or
while having kids?
Both, because having kids addsanother layer to it that I would
say and I don't want to, Idon't want to step on anybody's
toes, but if you're married andyou don't have any kids, it's
basically like you're stillsingle, like you have a
responsibility to your spouse Ican't wait for everyone who's

(41:47):
married to hear that I meanthere there's just a huge step
between having kids and nothaving kids.
Yeah, and I didn't learn thatuntil I had kids, and nobody who
doesn't have kids right now isprobably going to understand
what I'm saying to the to thefullest amount.
Like you have nieces andnephews and like but, and other
people who do too, or likebabysit or but it's's just like

(42:09):
there's so much responsibilityand so much that you have to
sacrifice, like like hanging outtonight, like after this, like
I'm not going to go because Ihave two kids at home that I
haven't seen all day and herwife, who has been parenting
both of them by herself.
You know, that she is making ahuge sacrifice so that I can be
here right now, which, if wedidn't have kids like she'd

(42:31):
probably be here.
She'd be out with other, likefriends, or she'd just be doing
whatever she wants to do,because her time is her own.
But, that's not the case.
When you have kids, your timeis theirs, right, and you know.
Kind of going back to what theBible says, like when you're
married, you know the man is,he's concerned with other
matters right, he's the mattersof his household, his wife and

(42:54):
his kids, and when you're not,you just don't have that.
But I don't think that thatdiminishes the value of being
single at all.
I think it actually.
I think it actually opens adoor for single people to come
alongside married people andsupport them and vice versa,
because it's not just, oh,you're married, we got to

(43:14):
support the married people.
It's like there's so muchblessing that in community we're
supposed to give back and forth, right, yeah, it's a huge topic
and I want to keep it more onmarriage.
Huge topic and I want to, Iwant to keep it more on marriage
.
But having kids adds a wholeanother layer that you, your
time is not your own.
You know to so much more of anextent than if you're just, than

(43:36):
if you're not just married.
If you're married, if you andyour wife don't have any kids,
you guys still have all yourfree time.
You can do a podcast, you cango to the gym, you can do your
Bible, you can sleep in, you cango grocery shopping.
You can not be yelled at whileyou're going to the bathroom.
You know, it's just different.
But I don't think that we putenough emphasis on the calling

(44:02):
that singleness has, the rolethat singleness plays in the
church, because I think, justlike Paul says he's like, I
would rather that you be, singleso that you can keep your mind
focused on the kingdom's purpose.
Not that marriage takes awayfrom the kingdom's purpose,
because, like we said, the Bibleadvocates for both.

(44:22):
God put Eve in the garden, butthere's also a point where, like
you said, the man and the womanthey have their.
The husband hasresponsibilities to his wife,
the wife has herresponsibilities to the husband
and they're trying to make theirhousehold.
But, yeah, I think that we needsingle people to be empowered

(44:45):
in their singleness and I thinkwe need people to to now not
like toxic singleness, likethere's so many aspects where
people are what's an example oflike being single and toxic, I
think being single, but be likegod's got somebody for me, or
like god's like god, I'm just inmy waiting season.

(45:08):
Or like you can't.
Or like trying to be celibatefor a year to force god's like
god, I'm just in my waitingseason.
Or like you can't.
Or like trying to be celibatefor a year to force god's hand
to like bring you somebody.
Like that's manipulation,you're not going to manipulate
god.
But says you hey, you could trywait, they.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
They're being celibate for one year.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
what do do you?
Well, yeah, like a vow.
I think it's like a vow ofcelibacy or something Like
people like they are going toabstain from even attempting to
begin a relationship for howeverlong they want to do it.
A month.

Speaker 1 (45:39):
Oh yeah, that's kind of.
I would not Well I think it canbe healthy.

Speaker 2 (45:49):
But if you have the expectation that you know God's
going to bring you somebody dayone of your celibacy being ended
.
Then you know what are yourthoughts, Because I have so many
things that I could say, but Idon't want to just have the
married man's experience.
I want to have your experienceas well, my thoughts on what, On
singleness and how it'sapproached by the church and how

(46:10):
people are treated who first,maybe are single and don't want
to be married, or maybe aresingle and do want to be married
.

Speaker 1 (46:21):
I would say and I'm just going to go with my
experience because it's weirdthere's a part of me that wants
to be married, but a lot of itjust has to do with I have a sex
drive, if I'm being honest, andso I know that's not the only
reason to be married.
I understand that, and it's notlike that's all I would ever
want to do if we were married,but I'm okay with being alone.

Speaker 2 (46:41):
But then there's also that drive, so it's like Right,
which may never cease to be astruggle until the day you meet
Jesus Correct and some people.
That's just the reality.
God is not going to take awayyour testosterone and your sex
drive.
I think that's the beauty ofliving in submission and having

(47:03):
a Lord and a Savior.

Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:11):
Because we don't emphasize the Lord enough.
I try to put put it in context.
Right, because I've watchedgame of thrones, like judge me
or don't judge me, but you know,watch whatever show.
That's a sinful show, but go onlike whatever movie you can
relate like a lord, like lordsof the the realm, or, you know,
like it's a position ofauthority.
You know it's not just a cushyyouy fire protection savior, I'm
not going to hell anymore.

Speaker 1 (47:32):
Thank you, Jesus.
Yeah, I don't actually believein fire insurance, but that's a
topic for a different day.
Continue.

Speaker 2 (47:41):
People who I kind of lost where I was going, right
Jesus is Lord, the emphasis onLord.
Yeah, Jesus is Lord and Savior.
Totally lost my train ofthought.
What was I talking about beforethat?

Speaker 1 (47:55):
Game of Thrones, lord of the Realms, oh yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:58):
So as far as like Jesus being Lord, um, we just
don't, we don't.
I don't think we contextualizethat enough.
I don't think we reallyunderstand what it means to have
a Lord.
Going back to the sex drivething If you're laying down your
will like you have a sex drive.

(48:18):
It's overtaking you.
You got to go masturbate orsomething, because it's a thing.
People sin every day and theydon't have an outlet.
They go masturbate or whatever.
But that's where Are you sayingit's okay, whatever, but that's
where are you saying it's okay?
no, that's what I'm saying islike if, like you said, I said
it may be a struggle for youuntil you go meet jesus.
So that's part of living insubmission to the lord of your

(48:40):
life, jesus christ right it'sbecause you don't.
That's having being your ownoutlet is not sustainable.
Right, jesus has to be yourfoundation.
You're a conduit for Jesus.
And sexually singing because Ithink I don't remember where it

(49:00):
is in the Bible, but it talksabout sexual sin is one of the
worst kinds of sin, because it'sa sin against your own body as
well sin because it's a sinagainst your own body as well.
So I think that's one part wereally need to focus on is if
you are single, right, andobviously, if sex drive is real,
maybe yours is low, maybe yoursis high, but you have to, even

(49:23):
in marriage, like you have to tosome extent put that into
submission.
Right, the bible does say right, don't withhold yourselves from
each other.
But it also does doesn't meanthat I'm gonna go because you
can rape your wife if you'remarried.
Like, just because you'remarried doesn't mean rape isn't
a thing.

Speaker 1 (49:39):
You know, yeah, she still has, yeah, she still have
to consent.
Right, it's, it's self-control.

Speaker 2 (49:45):
It's, you know, living in submission.
Because that, because that'swhat a lot of marriage and what
right marriage is a picture ofour relationship with Christ,
like it talks about Jesus beingthe bridegroom.
The church is his bride, andit's sacrifice.
It's the husband's laying downhis life for his wife, right,

(50:06):
and it's submission both ways,it's sacrifice both ways.
And so, whether you're singleor married, you're still
submitted to Jesus.
So that's really the point thatI'm trying to drive home is that
you have a Lord and whether youknow you have a high sex drive
or a low sex drive, you know youhave to keep that in submission
to God and figure out howyou're going to use that sexual

(50:27):
energy, and I don't even want tosay for the kingdom, but how
you can.
I don't want to say release forthe sake of a bad pun, but how
you can let go of that, becauseyou can't let that control you,

(50:51):
like Jesus has to be in controlof your life.
So if that's a big issue insingleness, right, that's one
thing that I think if you'regoing to move towards being in a
relationship and being married,you have to have that submitted
to God, because you do not, youdo not want to take a you know
porn addiction mixed withmasturbation into a marriage,

(51:13):
because that's going to cause away more problems than you ever
knew you were going to deal withyeah, you still want to have
self-control, right For sure.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
Yeah, and that's also you know.
From another perspective, it'slike self-control is attractive
to women, not saying that's likethe only reason why you should
practice it, but it's not likeit's a fruit of the spirit you
need to be in in connection withholy spirit.
Have some self-control yes, butI'm just saying it's like

(51:40):
that's just one of the addedbonuses of having it, for you
know I think all the fruits ofthe spirit are attractive that's
true, yeah, but we were justspecifically talking about right
of control, so that's the one.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
But if we're, if we're going to talk about
preparing for relationship like,that's a great place to start
right, we we always talk aboutit is, what can I?
Do to.
What can I do to be the bestspouse that I could be in the
future?
You know, because I'm singleright now.
It's like read your bible, geta good dose of the Holy Spirit
and let the fruit of your lifebe evident and let your actions

(52:13):
speak for themselves.
Let love, joy, peace, patience,kindness, goodness,
faithfulness, gentleness andself-control be evident.

Speaker 1 (52:21):
Yeah, I have it up there.

Speaker 2 (52:23):
Like if those things are on display in your life and
maybe you can't find a spouse,maybe you are called to be
single for the rest of your life.
I'm not saying that that's thegolden rule, but if all those
things are on display and theHoly Spirit is working in you
and he's speaking to you, if thegifts of the Spirit are evident

(52:48):
, like we're going to judge abook by its cover, like we're
going to judge a tree by itsfruit, then we're going to know
who you are based on the thingsthat we see in your life.
And as far as bringing a spouseinto that equation or a
relationship, those are thethings people are going to see.
Now.

(53:08):
Some people are shallow.
Some people just want thewashboard, abs and the
six-figure salary and the nicecar, but those relationships
they don't last, because when heloses any of those things, it's
like he loses her.
Because it comes down toidentity and who you are.
And when you're solid in youridentity and you are spending

(53:29):
time with Jesus and you're beingtransformed by the renewing of
your mind, those are the thingsthat I think are going to be the
most attractive to someone whois going to be worth the
lifelong investment of marriage,not some weekend experience.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Yes, correct, yes, correct.
But I was going to add to likethe way that I deal with my
singleness and like the way thereason why it's I mean I still
have like that drive and thosetemptations and those are always
going to be there, but like theloneliness doesn't hit me as
much, because when you are in agood prayer life and reading
your Bible and spending timewith Jesus, I'd say that's

(54:05):
number one.
But I think with spending timewith Jesus and becoming more
like him, it's like when you areambitious and achieving your
goals, or even just going afteryour goals, like working out or
living in your purpose it's likethat can add fulfillment to

(54:25):
your life, where it's like thatvoid of a wife or a spouse If
you're a woman and you'relooking for a husband it's like
that Absolutely that void is.
It's not, those things don'tfill it, but they do in a way.
I don't know how to reallyexplain it because obviously you
want.
Jesus to fill the void, butRight Like Jesus.

Speaker 2 (54:43):
Jesus is your source, but Jesus is also in other
people, and so that's why Ithink the beauty of community
comes into play when you'resingle, or even when you're
married, because when you'remarried, you still need
community, don't think?

Speaker 1 (54:55):
Yeah, that's.
One thing I wanted to add ismake sure you're in community.
Yeah, like a local church.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
Yeah, even if it's like whether you're married or
not, having I really like thatpodcast I sent to you that, you
know, spurred this conversationis one of the things that that
guy said was you're going tohave to work a lot harder for
that kind of community whenyou're single because you don't
have that instant.

(55:21):
You know this isn't an idealworld where all marriages are
perfect, right.
You don't have that instantintimacy that you, you know
cause you have, like if you'remarried.
You have a spouse, and it wassomebody that you know really
well, hopefully, and that you'redeeply in love with and have
made the commitment to you know,serve and love.
And if you don't have that, thenyou have to find that in
community, and that's notsomething that comes easily, you

(55:42):
know that's.
I think one of the things thatI've struggled with a lot, even
before marriage, is just reallyreally taking those
relationships to the next level,where it's like you're getting
into the issues of your heartand you're, you know, laying
bare you know, not physically,but like laying bare your
emotions and your desires andyour just couldn't skip over

(56:06):
that, like when you're justbeing authentic and real and
you're allowing people to seeyou for who you are and the
struggles that you have.
Like that has to be a focalpoint.
You know, in just beingChristian as a community, you
know, whether you're single ornot, you have to have that, yeah
, and I don't think that thechurch has displayed a very good

(56:29):
job of how to do that.
You know, I think they hope ithappens organically, but I think
, honestly, with the waytechnology is now, we're not
able to connect with people aseasy because we have, you know,
instant access to the web andall this social media at our at
our disposal, which we've talkedabout before, but people are

(56:52):
just not as open or just don'tknow how to enter into those
sort of relationships evenmyself, um, as I think previous
generations have been able to do, you know yeah, with everything
being online, you mean yeah,just with, just with all.
I don't think we've ever had anymore like more distractions in

(57:13):
this day and age, right?
I mean, the cell phone, likethe iphone, was invented roughly
around, I don't know, maybebefore you were born or the time
we were born.
Well, when to come out like ohthree, oh one definitely in the
2000s.

Speaker 1 (57:27):
We were born before then.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Yeah like just shortly, you know.
So I mean, it's not hasn't beenaround that long, but it's.
It's so.

Speaker 1 (57:34):
It's become so ingrained in our society that we
don't know how to live withoutit, and we have cheapened our
interactions with humans,because yeah, because everything
is just like everything'sautomated and swiping looking at
stuff, I mean I'm not sayingthat's the only reason, but it's
definitely not helping a 100isn't helping, and one thing
that I've been doing is I justdon't even bring my phone into

(57:56):
work anymore and then I don't.

Speaker 2 (57:58):
I don't listen to podcasts really music, yeah,
because I realized I was gonnaask you if you were like
listening to anything, because Ihad that thought.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
I started listening to sean ryan's on like if I'm
home or at the gym yeah I hispodcast is great.
I think he's hilarious like he.
Well, he's not really likefunny, but he has a sense of
humor yeah so when someone sayssomething funny, he'll laugh at
it, and I can't get over hislaugh.
But that's yeah so you'll?

Speaker 2 (58:24):
you'll weld for like eight hours a day, not listen to
anything.
Yeah, I just put earplugs in.
That's great.
What do you think?

Speaker 1 (58:31):
about all day I thought about this doing uh
doing.
Your mind must just wander ifyou're able to like it does, but
I think I think they'resupposed to, because I don't
think we're supposed to geteight hours of constant
entertainment yeah, just noiseinformation all day long,

(58:51):
because I realized when I waslistening to stuff recently I'm
like I'd be getting home and I'mjust exhausted.
Yeah, to the point where I haveto go in my room and just lay
down like I don't even want toget up.
Sometimes it'd be for like threehours I'd lay there, yeah, and
then your brain is just wore outyeah, and then yesterday was
actually the first day that Ijust did earplugs, no, and then

(59:12):
I came home and I like read foran hour and did all this stuff
and it's like this hugedifference yeah, I feel like
your mind is just not ascluttered yeah, and it's
actually resting and working theway it's supposed to yeah,
interesting, yeah, you bring upsomething very interesting

(59:35):
because it's more grounded.

Speaker 2 (59:37):
Can we be as people, especially as men?
Because I think we're designedto how do I say this?
I say this I think geneticallyand just biblically, we're
designed to be the workers right, the workhorse of the family.
Like we do the hard work, we goout and you know we're not

(01:00:01):
making bricks anymore but we goout, we make a living.
Not that women can't bebreadwinners or be the main
provider, but we have, I think,a history and the genetics to
maybe put our mind to one thingand not be filled with a bunch
of noise In a whole differentway, because I feel like women
can absorb all that stuff.
My wife can multitask and stayon focus with a bunch of
different things, and I listento music at work and I'm just

(01:00:24):
like wait what?
I don't know where I am or whatI'm doing.

Speaker 1 (01:00:28):
So you know it's got to be, or you don't even where I
am or what I'm doing, so youknow it's gotta be, or you don't
even remember what the song wasor that was.
My problem, too, is like listento.
I wouldn't even remember halfthe stuff I was listening to,
like what's the point?
And if it's just exhaustingyour brain, yeah, and you're not
learning anything, then what isreally the point?
Yeah, I don't think we as mencan really do multiple things.

(01:00:51):
So when I'm like welding, butthere's stuff in my ears I got
to let this one rip.

Speaker 2 (01:01:00):
That one's really in there.
Thank you for that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
I thought you were going to fart.
No, it's the allergies.

Speaker 2 (01:01:05):
Man, I got all this phlegm going on.
But yeah, that's continue.
I like this.
You're.
You're welding it.
Where do you feel like whenyou're um?

Speaker 1 (01:01:15):
I feel like I'm more into my job too.

Speaker 2 (01:01:17):
Do you feel like you do a better job, quality wise,
when you're not?

Speaker 1 (01:01:20):
Yeah, I do the, the carts and everything that I make
are getting done faster.
It's like oh wow, and I'm just,I'm more into what I'm doing
it's like I'm almost passionateabout it again, whereas before I
was like losing that passionbecause my brain couldn't be
fully into it right, youcouldn't be present yeah, you're

(01:01:41):
not present because, like I wasjust listening to stuff to like
distract myself, basicallyright, just make it through your
eight hours and get out ofthere.
Yeah, and then there's somethingto struggling where it's like I
actually have to go throughthis.
I have to go through this dayof work and there's something
about it with no distractionthat actually ends up making me

(01:02:04):
happier if that makes sense,because I've done this before
where I went like a month or sowithout listening to stuff on my
phone.
Yeah, me happier if that makessense, because I've done this
before where I went like a monthor so without listening to
stuff on my phone.
Yeah, and there really issomething to people going
through adversity oh yeah whatmakes people grow, and then,
like going through thatdiscomfort, on the other end you
actually find that happinessand joy.

(01:02:25):
I'll say happiness because joycomes from the lord, but you'll
find that happiness yeah, that's, that's, these like there's
that study where they placed atree in this perfect environment
and it ended up dying witheringaway.

Speaker 2 (01:02:41):
But when they placed it in a place like wind and
stuff, it actually grew andbecame stronger really yeah,
it's like that's how I thinkpeople are kind of meant to be
so you think so, if I'm, if I'msmelling what you're stepping in
, that while we're, if we'reworking and we're trying to

(01:03:01):
distract and numb while we're,while we're doing the job that
we've been given, we're actually, we actually won't be as
satisfied with the job thatwe've done and we won't do as
good of a job either.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
That's what I think.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
It makes sense.
I mean, I've been noticing thatat work.

Speaker 1 (01:03:18):
I mean that's not what I think In my situation.
That's what I know.
Yeah, so you've experienced it.

Speaker 2 (01:03:24):
It's interesting because I've kind of been going
through the same thing, becauseI told you I've just been
auditing these logs at work andgoing through and verifying all
these changes and I've beenlistening to, like at first I
started putting on like somesurfaces, like some kind of
chill vibey this rap.
And then I started going backinto like my post-hardcore stuff

(01:03:44):
I used to listen to which I waslike man, this is rocking, but
I was like, wow, I really can't.
I I used to listen to which Iwas like man, this is rocking,
but I was like, wow, I reallycan't.
I suck at what I'm doing, likeI'm making mistakes.
And then I started putting onsome like techno.
I didn't even know techno.
It was just like kind ofworkout, like hype music with no
sound, or not no sound, with nowords, just like really EDM

(01:04:05):
sort of like hyped up you,really EDM, sort of hyped up you
know what I'm trying to sayyeah, it gets you pumped up and
that kind of helped me focus too, because there was no words, it
was just kind of getting me.
But even still, I find that itmakes sense.
If you're not distracted bysomething else or, to the
farther extent, if you're nottrying to numb because you hate
what you're doing so much thatyou just want to escape while

(01:04:26):
you're doing it, you're just notgoing to have the output that
you want, or even you know thatyour employers want to see.
If you're trying to dosomething for yourself, you're
just not going to have thatquality that your work deserves.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
Yeah, even if you do hate what you do, though, I
think you should go through it.
Oh, definitely, and just keepdoing it, because, first of all,
every job at some point isgoing to become monotonous, even
your dream job, and there'sgoing to be good days with it,
even if it's a job you don'treally like.

Speaker 2 (01:04:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
And if you hate it that much, it's like, why are
you still there?
That's always my question.
If you hate your job so much,why are you still there?
I've been through that a lot oftimes.

Speaker 2 (01:05:05):
This is not fun being here.
I work somewhere else now oftimes, this is not fun being
here.
I work somewhere else now, andthen you go through the same
cycle and then you go throughthe same cycle, but for me I can
literally, for me I couldliterally put a timetable on it
because, like every job thatI've had, I've noticed at the
seven month mark I, I absolutelyhate my life and I quit well,

(01:05:26):
I'm glad you said you're marriedfor two years now.
Literally, I can think back towhen I was working.
It was kind of like a cateringjob.
I worked at a country club.
I worked there for seven months.
The job before that I worked atno, it was after.
I worked at the boat repairshop for seven months I worked
at when was it?

(01:05:46):
It was, oh man, it was all likeseven months.
I think it was.
Men's warehouse was where Imade it the longest.
I was like I know, like I, Ipushed through the seven month
mark because I was so like Ihate this, I need to find
something else.
I just kept working.
I got over it and then I wasthere like a year and a half and
it was that was kind of duringcovid.
So I had four months off in themiddle where we just played

(01:06:07):
video games that whole time Iremember those days where
everybody was on unemployment,making more than me I was so you
were still working?

Speaker 1 (01:06:15):
yeah, I would have I had tuesdays and thursdays off
for some reason, but everybodyelse had their unemployment and
we're making, I think, almosttwice as much as I was.

Speaker 2 (01:06:24):
It was a lot I think I was making, is it 700 bucks?

Speaker 1 (01:06:30):
and that was back when eggs weren't four dollars,
so that money was actually goingsomewhere they put it all in
the xbox video game because Iwell could dude.

Speaker 2 (01:06:39):
The stupidest decision I ever made was like
two weeks before the initialshutdown.
I just sold my xbox and I wasstill on board with the decision
.
But I was like, okay, I needsomething to do while we're all
stuck inside.
And then when doors opened backup and things were moving, I
sold it again and I haven'tanything back since.

(01:06:59):
But I was like, oh man, I'mgoing to be screwed, because
during those days I'd literallyplay Xbox with y'all or by
myself or just do whateveronline, and then I would watch
TV and then I would play drumsand that's when it really got
better at drums, because thoseare the only three things that I
did.
So I'd probably video game fortwo hours, I might get some food
, watch a show for an hour, Imight play drums for an hour and

(01:07:21):
a half and then just repeat thecycle.
That's all I did for fourmonths.

Speaker 1 (01:07:26):
That's not so bad.

Speaker 2 (01:07:28):
That wasn't the worst .
I mean, what were you going todo?
I was just afraid we were goingto get fined for going outside.
Yeah, but then I realized thatactually the cops were not
enforcing that but anywhere.
Yeah, they weren't.

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
but I remember I couldn't leave because my my
parents were going through itwith their freaking out about
covid and I couldn't leave thehouse for anything except I
remember you said you're yeah Icouldn't even longboard.

Speaker 2 (01:07:56):
How are you like 28 and still letting, still letting
her parents tell you.
Because that makes it better.
Kevin and Laura shout out.

Speaker 1 (01:08:10):
Well, you're 26 and living.
Do you want to explain yoursituation?
I don't live with my parents.

Speaker 2 (01:08:14):
I live with her parents.

Speaker 1 (01:08:15):
And they don't tell me what to do.
Fair enough.
But the reason why I was livingwith my parents is because I
was so afraid to move out and beon my own.
And then Luigi came along andthen we got that house and it
was ever since then and theCOVID thing when I couldn't
leave the house.

(01:08:36):
Ever since then I was like Iwill work four jobs before I
ever go back and live there,because I can't do that again.

Speaker 2 (01:08:42):
Yeah, that was too.

Speaker 1 (01:08:44):
That was too much for me, where it's like yeah,
you're 26 and you have to listento your parents it's the worst
feeling in the world.

Speaker 2 (01:08:52):
Yeah, it's.
Yeah, I I'm very thankful forher parents and letting us be
there.
We, we got a great situationand yeah it is cool.
If we didn't, if we didn't havekids, we would.
We would be on our own, like,yeah, because we there's,
they're expensive, you know yeah, and right now it's, it's hard.
Yeah, we're um, she's gonna befinding stuff on the side

(01:09:15):
because we just have to.
You know, if we ever want toget out of there because it's
just it's just expensive thesedays, right, going back to like
the single or the the marriedthing with no kids, like your
time is still your own.
You can work two jobs and stillmake all your money.
Be have all your money.
Be your own, you know.

Speaker 1 (01:09:33):
I was also going to ask back, since you brought up
the marriage and singleness.
You said you were friendsbefore you guys started dating.
Is that something you wouldsuggest doing before you start
dating?
Someone has become friends withthem I mean I?

Speaker 2 (01:09:49):
I am not gonna say that I'm an expert, I can only
give my experience right and I'mvery fortunate that it worked
out the way that it did for meand I know other people have had
that experience too Like, Ithink Jake and Abby were friends
for a long time before they gottogether and I can recommend it

(01:10:11):
.
But there are probably otherthings I can recommend too.
I just don't have anyexperience in those realms, but
if you do find that there is agirl or guy in your friend group
or in your life that you'veknown and then you, you know,
find yourself attracted to them,I think it can work out very
well, just because for us, weknew a lot about each other, we

(01:10:35):
had fun together, we could joke.
You know there wasn't any.
I would say the biggest thingthat set us up, you know,
unknowingly, was that we werewilling to be authentic with
each other.
Before we knew that we wereromantically interested Because
there were.
I told her like a lot of stuffabout my family that was just
going on, like some of the stuffI was struggling with with,

(01:10:57):
just where my life was, you know.
And she told me a lot of stufffrom her life, like just things
that you don't know if you'renot intimate with the person.
I'm not talking about romanticintimacy.
I'm talking about just beingseen and being known right and
being heard.
When you can do that with aperson and you can feel valued

(01:11:18):
and right, I think seen, heard,known and loved Like those are
the biggest things.
If you can find that in afriendship and that turns into a
romantic relationship, I thinkthat's beautiful because you've
already started your journey ofintimacy and now you're just
getting to the commitment phasewhere you commit that part

(01:11:40):
forever.
And when you don't have that,when you're starting from
scratch with somebody, you justhave a longer road to take,
which is what a lot of people do.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It just wasn't my experience.
I think it's very nuanced rightwhen it comes to the world of
online dating or meeting peopleorganically.

(01:12:02):
It's not like in the moviesfrom the 70s and the 80s where
you got these people greasingtheir hair and you meet somebody
at the ice cream bar orwherever People can meet at the
bar and have great marriages.
This wasn't my experience.
Anything's possible.

Speaker 1 (01:12:19):
Yeah, I wouldn't suggest meeting them at the bar,
but it doesn't.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
I can't say I recommend it but I also can't
say it doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (01:12:26):
Right, I'm not saying it doesn't happen.
And if, like you were there, ifyou're a Christian, you happen
to stumble into a bar forwhatever reason, because if
you're Christian you should notbe going to the bar?
I'm just kidding, if you think.

Speaker 2 (01:12:39):
Make sure you're on audio so you can see that, or
you're on video.
But if you think about it right, going back to how do I prepare
for a relationship, thatintimacy is something that you
can work on.
Before you ever meet somebodyto be intimate with, you can
work on yourself and be ahealthy enough person to be

(01:13:02):
willing to.
I'm just saying you got to beauthentic and blurt out all your
deepest, darkest fears and yourstruggles with everybody.

Speaker 1 (01:13:09):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:13:09):
It's got to be with trusted people.
If those trusted people becomeromantically interested.
Amazing, but you have to be.
You have to be grounded, rootedand you know, solid in your
identity and I cannot stressthat enough, excuse me, and you
can edit that out.

Speaker 1 (01:13:31):
You have to be.
I'm not going to.

Speaker 2 (01:13:33):
You just have to know who you are.
You have to be confident.

Speaker 1 (01:13:39):
Wow, I muted my mic.
I thought it would be.

Speaker 2 (01:13:43):
You have to be confident enough to Okay, you
might as well just mute themboth.
No, keep farting.
You have to be willing to openup to somebody before that
person is going to come intoyour life that you're going to
open up to.
So if you're insecure, ifyou're going to shut everybody

(01:14:05):
out, you know if you shut thepeople out that are in your life
currently, you're probably notgoing to have much luck with a
romantic relationship.
You know that was the beauty ofthe friendship that we had is
we were at a point of relationalintimacy that it takes people
who are dating a while to get to.
You know, if you're gonna, ifyou ask somebody on a, if you go

(01:14:28):
on a blind date, if you asksomebody out, oh sure, yeah, it
takes a while, it takes a lotlonger, but that's just the
nature of relationships rightyou just have to work at it.
You have to.
You have to discover the peoplethat are safe, you know.
You get to establish that thatthese are safe people.
This is a safe person, and ifyou're safe person, and if
you're not a safe person, ifyou're not a healthy person,
odds are you're not going toattract people who that is very,

(01:14:51):
very true.

Speaker 1 (01:14:52):
If you're the guy that complains about how all
women are bad or whatever it'slike, you're going to attract
those types of women into yourlife.
Yeah, and you just have to, youhave to be the person that you
would want them to be.
You know, yeah, you can't havelike high standards and then be
yeah it's like it's like the guywho like wants a really like

(01:15:15):
athletic girl.

Speaker 2 (01:15:16):
But sits on a 300 pound couch potato and wants a,
an olympian.
Yeah, exactly, yeah, it's notgonna happen it's the same idea.
That's more like surface level,but but then it comes down to
like okay, you see a drive inthis person, this olympian, this
olympic level athlete, and thenyou see no drive in this person
who's 300 pound couch potatolike these people's life goals

(01:15:39):
and missions are not on the sametrajectory, so how would their
worlds ever connect, except forthe fact that we see them on
social media or we're you know?
Now we have access to all thesedifferent realms, so we think
we have all these options, whenreally your options are pretty
limited, as the 300, 300 poundpotato.
Yeah you know, like if we didn'thave social media, like the

(01:15:59):
options would be the 20 peoplein his you know close circle
yeah, and don't, and don'tlisten to the.

Speaker 1 (01:16:05):
Sometimes on social media you will see that couple
like he's a 300 pound couchpotato and she's an olympian,
but that is.

Speaker 2 (01:16:14):
Maybe he's got a heart of gold, you know, but
pretty big heart, yeah again,it's not like it doesn't happen,
but right, but don't, your oddsare low.

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
Yeah, your odds are low.
Like he probably is making amillion you're.
You're not the exception, buddyit's already taken by somebody
else.
The exception is already takenexactly or or.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
Ma'am, you're not the exception, because let's not
just pretend that it's.
It's the guys who always wantthe girl.
You know that the guy is always300 pounds.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
You know sometimes it's the other way around oh, a
lot of times I think we usuallyjust both these days, I think we
just yeah, I think we justequate it because we're men, so
we're talking about it from likea man's perspective, but it
definitely goes both ways right,yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:16:59):
So I mean there's, it's not a, it's not like a one
and done like a.
Check this thing off the list.
I'm good, I'm ready for arelationship.
It's the culmination of you asa whole person, right?
Whether you're physicallyhealthy does play a big part of
it Spiritually healthy,emotionally healthy, mentally.

Speaker 1 (01:17:20):
And those all take a lot of work to get to
Financially healthy.

Speaker 2 (01:17:24):
not a big thing too, like you, should have these
conversations and and you knowit doesn't always happen like we
didn't really have financialconversations before.
But you know, I would hate tolike if you have a bunch of
credit card debt and you don'ttell your spouse, it's like I,
there's, there's a like, there'sa random side nuance to this.
It's like if you're somebodyit's going really well and you
find out they have $50,000 indebt, it's like okay, you can

(01:17:47):
choose to bind yourself to them,get married, and then you will
also be responsible for that$50,000 worth of debt.

Speaker 1 (01:17:54):
Is somebody shallow if they decide not to marry them
?

Speaker 2 (01:17:58):
I mean that's a big thing to consider.
I mean like if okay, consider.
I mean like if, if okay, I'llgo both ways, because I because
I hear what you're saying likeif you're, I would not want you
to throw away a relationshipthat you think right, if both of
these people are really healthyand they're good for each other
and it seems like the lord'sblessed that relationship, and

(01:18:19):
all of a sudden you find outthey have a bunch of debt, like
maybe they're just bad withmoney, right, it is a thing to
consider, it doesn't.
I'm not.
I'm not saying you have to goeither way.
I'm just saying you're going tohave to.
If you choose to get married,you're going to have to bear the
weight of that responsibility,yeah.
But I also don't judge you ifyou break it off.

Speaker 1 (01:18:36):
Yeah, I wouldn 50 grand in debt.
You know me neither, it's justthat's something you bring up.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
I don't know that'd be a hard one to bring up.
Well, yeah, you know it justbring it up.
A better thing is just to neverget into that much debt to
begin with.
But nobody's perfect, and thereare people who will listen, who
have debt, and that's it.
Just is what it is right yeahbut you can't hide it, just like
you can't hide anything else ina relationship, because the
relationship is not about hidingthings.

Speaker 1 (01:19:06):
Funny that you mentioned that there was this
guy on the radio that called in,because I still listen to radio
, of course, sometimes when I'mdriving.
What's a radio?
Ha ha ha.
But he said that he's beenseeing this girl for three years
and she still doesn't know thathe has a daughter.

Speaker 2 (01:19:27):
Oh.

Speaker 1 (01:19:28):
A daughter.

Speaker 2 (01:19:29):
A daughter.
He got a daughter.

Speaker 1 (01:19:32):
You guys got to keep it down.
My daughter's trying to sleep,which so oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
So you say well, I mean, yeah, you can't just show
up to the wedding and be like oh, by the way, I have a
nine-year-old yeah, that's thoseare.
Show up to the wedding and belike oh, by the way I have a
nine-year-old.

Speaker 1 (01:19:47):
Yeah, that's, those are things that you have to talk
about.
Or just like see pictures atyour house like who's that?

Speaker 2 (01:19:50):
oh yeah, that's my daughter, it's my kid also now
you're, by the way, it's yoursnow oh man, yeah, see, but it's
like we, we emphasize big issueslike that too, even if you're
hiding little stuff like youcan't.
If you're hiding things, it'snot a good indication of where

(01:20:11):
you're at.

Speaker 1 (01:20:13):
No, because, first of all, it's lying.
Second of all, there'sespecially depending on what it
is there's a level of insecuritythat you are holding on to if
you're too afraid to show itreal easily.
Exactly, yeah, you're hiding itbecause you're too afraid to
show right.

Speaker 2 (01:20:24):
Exactly yeah, you're hiding it because you're
insecure, which is another issue, right?

Speaker 1 (01:20:28):
doesn't you not want to be insecure?

Speaker 2 (01:20:30):
not only you're lying and you're deceptive nature,
but now you're also notconfident in who you are like,
like the stuff.
The stuff piles up really fastagainst you and I think that's
why relationships are so hard,because we have a lot of people
these days who are not willingand or prepared to do the work
to get healthier, to be somebodythat somebody else would want.

Speaker 1 (01:20:52):
Yeah, I agree, but there's so much.

Speaker 2 (01:20:56):
I'm saying you got to be perfect.

Speaker 1 (01:20:59):
No, no, no perfect.
But I what I was going to sayis there's so much being thrown
at both men and women to makethem either not want to get
healthy or get into arelationship.
I mean, one of the biggestthings now is, like a lot of men
think that all women are bad,so like they're just not going

(01:21:20):
to do anything I think, to getbetter themselves to get better.
I think it's like 50% of men inAmerica would rather play video
games than have sex, whichobviously sex before marriage is
a sin.

Speaker 2 (01:21:34):
but I'm just saying like that's why 50% of marriages
end in divorce Because of videogames.
Just saying there seems to be acorrelation.
I'm not saying it's a statistic.
I'm saying it's a statistic.

Speaker 1 (01:21:44):
It's saying it's a correlation yeah, video games
can get back because they're soaddicting they're, they're made
to be addicting, right, and soyou just want to keep staying on
.
It's like, how many times is itone more game?
Yeah I mean, we do that withsmash bros.

Speaker 2 (01:21:57):
It's like this is the last one, and then like four
hours later it's like no, thisis really the last one, but
anyway, where was I talkingabout?
Just men not wanting to getbetter because of women?
Yeah, they think don't.
They don't think the women areworth it.

Speaker 1 (01:22:11):
I'm probably the other way around too, but right
and I and I really do think backto the social media thing.
It's that's really playing intoit, because tiktok and all
those things are going to showyou just the worst of society of
women, like it's.
It's guys going and interviewinggirls who have just left left

(01:22:31):
the club and then you equatethat to every girl and it's like
.
That's like I just want peopleto know there is still good
women and still good men outthere.
But if you're on social medialistening all these podcasts,
like I know, like the, whateverpodcast is really popular and
never heard of what they do isthey'll bring.
Usually it's a guy like aconservative guy on or a couple

(01:22:53):
conservative guys.

Speaker 2 (01:22:54):
Oh, like the current conservative guys with like all
the liberal girl, like thehookers, basically, yeah, like
only fans and adult content,yeah, girls.

Speaker 1 (01:23:02):
And then they like go back and forth and then our
brains see that and want toequate that to like the average
woman and it's just like that'snot how every woman is.
They're not all looking at sixfigures, they're not all having
a hundred plus body counts,which is just crazy to think
about.

Speaker 2 (01:23:21):
But you don't even remember at all.
Remember all.
Can you imagine like notremembering all the people
you've had sex with?
Yeah, that'd be crazy, likethat's a different level of of
numbing different level ofpsycho a different level of.
There's an issue that they'renot addressing that needs some
healing yeah, but not in today'sworld.

Speaker 1 (01:23:40):
No, I'll tell you that.

Speaker 2 (01:23:42):
No, but I mean, yeah, I am a huge advocate of being
off social media.
Now, social media just likemoney or just like anything,
it's a tool, right?
If?
you use a tool, you use it forwhat it's designed for and it
can be very effective.
But if you let that tool becomesomething more than really what

(01:24:07):
it should be used for and I'mnot saying you just have to use
it for advertisement or you justhave to use it for, like, the
six friends and family that youhave you can use it however you
want to.
But whenever you start to letthat thing control you or you
start to become addicted to it,just like with anything, then
you have a problem.
And I'm I am, I used to be this, uh, idealist where I could say

(01:24:30):
, oh yeah, I can control myselfwith social media, I can control
myself with video games, or Ican control myself with whatever
you know, like you can, you canfill in whatever blank you want
to, like I can control this,like I have a grip on this.
But in reality, I had a I hadan interesting conversation with
this a long time ago, justabout video games in general.
It's like, should you get ridof the temptation or should you

(01:24:52):
work on controlling yourselfwith the temptation?
I'm I'm a very big advocate ofjust trashing social media
getting rid of it, you know,except for like.

Speaker 1 (01:25:00):
Yeah, it's the same with like an alcoholic shouldn't
be hanging out at the bar,right, right, you wouldn't want
them to do that.

Speaker 2 (01:25:06):
People don't equate it at that same level because
they can't realize how theydon't realize how addicted they
are to social media and how muchit's bringing down their
standards.
Right, it's lowering the barfor how they see the world Also.
Just, you're constantly,whether you realize it or not,
you're just viewing so manydifferent things that you just

(01:25:31):
don't have a grip on reality.
I don't think, because inreality your sphere of influence
is not that big.
You're not going to haverelationship with a bunch of
people from all over the countryor the world.
It's just not going to happenand we play this comparison game
there's just so much comparison, and comparison is just evil.

(01:25:52):
We will compare ourselves todeath, you know, and we will
never.
We will never, we'll nevervalue ourselves and we'll never,
we'll never also be able to beself-aware enough to realize
where we are and how we can getbetter, or the fact that we even
need to get better, becausewe're so fixated on just
comparing to what we don't have.
Yeah, and so that's where allof it, if you're single and

(01:26:19):
you're wanting to get married,all of it has a role to play in
getting prepared for arelationship, like because you
I'll say it over and over againthere's no one box you have to
check.
You just have to be, overall, awell-rounded person and you,
you may be sitting there and youmay be a well-rounded person,
you may be like what the heck isgoing on, and that's a

(01:26:39):
different conversation.
But I think the majority ofpeople just don't realize how
many issues they have and arenot willing to get better or to,
you know, even just cut out onesingle thing from their life.

Speaker 1 (01:26:53):
Yeah, I know that all too well with some people.
But I would say too, if you'rea well-rounded person and you're
like, well, why isn't itworking for me?
It's like one thing that Ithink the church doesn't put
emphasis on is like if you wanta wife or a husband, you have
got to go get that.
It's not just going to pop upin your life and be like, oh,

(01:27:16):
this person was sent by God.
Like obviously God can controlthings and make it so like you
end up in the same room.

Speaker 2 (01:27:25):
I mean he'll partner with you with it, part you in
your, partner with youthroughout the process but it's
not like guess what?
You're going to pop thequestion to this stranger today.
You guys are going to getmarried.

Speaker 1 (01:27:37):
Yeah, but that's not going to happen.
Yeah, and even if you're justsitting there alone and like
there's smoke happens and thisgirl just pops up, it's like you
still have to go talk to her.

Speaker 2 (01:27:47):
That you do.
And she's not a robot, eithershe's not pre-programmed.

Speaker 1 (01:27:51):
Yeah, she's not pre-programmed.
Say yes Because I think a lotof times especially now I'm
seeing it on there's like a lotof Christian masculinity YouTube
channels, because those arelike the big thing, even though
they kind of end up talkingabout the same thing every time.
It's like and some of thetitles are even like avoid all

(01:28:13):
women, and it's like don't becrazy, but they'll.
They'll say in those videos,like you know, just just keep
focusing on your purpose.
It's like borderline, like redpill stuff, uh, the stuff that
they're getting into, but it'sstill like it has like that
touch of christianity and likejust keep following your purpose
and like don't worry aboutdating and god will send you

(01:28:34):
your wife.
And it's like you might have togo out and look for her too,
like it's not just gonnamagically happen because you're
walking with God and becauseyou're praying seven times a
week.

Speaker 2 (01:28:49):
Right, I want to say that, even though there's
probably 8 billion people on theworld right now, that it's
probably going to be differentfor every single person, like
it's so nuanced, well, that too.
It's so nuanced and there's nota formula for right, trick her
into saying, yes, there's a lotof self-work that has to be done

(01:29:13):
.

Speaker 1 (01:29:14):
Trick her into saying yes, is that what you said?

Speaker 2 (01:29:17):
Yeah, like you're not going to just pop up one day
and she's going to fall for somesort of trick.
It's like ah, I, I guess Igotta get married to this fool
like.
It's like she didn't like sellherself to you, she didn't like
she doesn't owe, like a mobster,money right you know it's just
like you.
You just have to.

(01:29:38):
There's a lot of work you gottado you know, and I think for
every single person it's goingto look a little bit different.
And I would do also want to say, for the people who maybe find
themselves not desiring arelationship and who maybe have
said that you know, or who havegotten, like the, the question

(01:29:59):
is like why don't you want toget married?
Like, and then you start to getquestioned like what's wrong
with me?
There's nothing that says thatyou have to get married, you
just don't.

Speaker 1 (01:30:09):
Yeah, you don't have to.

Speaker 2 (01:30:10):
Nowhere.

Speaker 1 (01:30:11):
Unfollow the based reformed pages on Facebook
because they will say if you'renot married and having children,
you're not following God's planfor your life.
It's like where do you even getthat?
So I agree with you, I think Ithink if you're not married,
then that's okay.
I will add, though if you'rethe guy who is single and all

(01:30:36):
you're doing is just likewasting away, like no purpose
there's got to be more to yourlife than that.
I just you can't.
I don't want to say you can't,cause I know I'm getting in
trouble for that, but if you're,if you're claiming to be a
Christian and you really do loveJesus, and 100% of your life is
like video games and eatingtrash food, yeah, I can't agree

(01:31:02):
with you that you're not goingto cond, not going to condone
that lifestyle either, eventhough you don't want to be
married.

Speaker 2 (01:31:08):
Right, you do have to have some goals and some
aspirations, and therelationship that you have with
Jesus should spur you on tothose things.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
Yeah, like if you're in right relation with Jesus,
it's like you will naturallywant to start going to church
and becoming part of a communityand just growing in that way
and doing stuff there.
So I do agree that you don'thave to be married, but that has
to come with some godly purpose.

Speaker 2 (01:31:32):
Yeah, absolutely, and you don't have to right, it's
not a one-time decision either.
I think, like you, have theability to change your mind.
Nope.

Speaker 1 (01:31:43):
Uh-uh decision either .

Speaker 2 (01:31:44):
I think, like you have the ability to change your
mind.
Like if you say, if you saidyou're going to be single for
the rest of your life, today,you don't think you might want
to take that back like 10 years.

Speaker 1 (01:31:52):
Yeah, for sure, yeah, yeah, I definitely think you
can change your mind and there'sthere's, there's, just there's
no pressure.

Speaker 2 (01:31:56):
So I just want to take the pressure off of people
Like there's there was nopressure to get married and
there's no pressure to make aone-off, lifetime commitment of
celibacy.
If you say you're going to besingle today and you're happy
with that decision, great.
And then tomorrow you say youwant to get married, that's

(01:32:17):
great.
But I also don't want youflip-flopping.
I'm just saying you can't beswayed by the wind.
You've got to have someconviction.

Speaker 1 (01:32:25):
Because everybody wants to be single for life.
And then she walks in and allof a sudden it's like whoa, I
changed my mind.

Speaker 2 (01:32:32):
Like there's.
I just like don't go saying Ithink the better mindset is to
have If you're okay with beingsingle.
I think the better mindset tohave is I'm single today and if
I'm single for the rest of mylife today, I'm okay with that,
you know, and I think that's adecision that you make every day
.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:32:52):
And if something changes, you have the ability to
change your mind, becauseyou're your own person, and
there's nothing wrong with that.
But then all this stuff thatwe've been talking about, about
youknow, self-care and workingon yourself and being in right
relationship with Jesus.
That all still applies.
It's not like you can be 60 orcelibate, not date for 50, 60

(01:33:13):
years and be like well, I thinkI need a wife now.
It's not the plan, it's not howit works.
You never know.
You never know she could popout of nowhere.
Denture's falling out and all.

Speaker 1 (01:33:25):
Your dentures falling out and all.

Speaker 2 (01:33:29):
Hey, even if I ain't got no teeth, I know my wife's
got my back.

Speaker 1 (01:33:37):
Be gums and all.
Okay, I'm assuming after thatyou don't have anything else.

Speaker 2 (01:33:43):
Hey, I could keep going, going.
Do you have anything else?
I don't even know what time itis.

Speaker 1 (01:33:47):
It's 610.

Speaker 2 (01:33:49):
Is it really?
Yeah, holy crap, how long havewe been talking?

Speaker 1 (01:33:52):
This has been an hour 34.

Speaker 2 (01:33:55):
I think that's a good .
I think that's a good place tostop.
It's a good little 90 minuteFor all y'all.

Speaker 1 (01:34:00):
Good 90 minute.
Next time we'll aim for threehours.
I think we can do it if we putour minds to it.
But anyway, everybody thanksfor listening.
Have a blessed week.
Love you Bye.

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