037: Christians And Secular Music. With Andy Sarmiento

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Andy and I navigate the complex relationship between Christianity and secular music, exploring how believers can maintain spiritual integrity while creating or consuming non-worship music.

• Andy shares his journey into music starting with church influences and his uncle's rock music collection
• We discuss whether Christians should create secular music and how to maintain spiritual boundaries
• Andy explains his approach to writing music that deals with real struggles while pointing toward hope
• We critically examine Christian artists collaborating with secular musicians like Jelly Roll and Tech N9ne
• The danger of "merging church and world" potentially waters down the gospel for popularity
• Using Paul's principle that "not all things lawful are beneficial" to evaluate musical choices
• How mega churches sometimes compromise biblical principles to attract larger audiences
• The importance of discernment when deciding what music to create, perform, or listen to
• Finding balance between expressing authentic emotions and maintaining Christian witness

Check out Signal the Skies' new song "Escape" that just released! Let us know your thoughts on Christians and secular music in the comments or through our anonymous text line.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
What's going on, man?

(00:01):
This is the new setup.
I love it.
I love it.
There's so much that haschanged.
Have you always had theacoustic panels up there?

Speaker 2 (00:08):
No, stefan got those on the TikTok shop oh snap.
And gave them to me.
They help, but I would need toget more for every wall.

Speaker 1 (00:18):
You should get the.
There's these sweet ones thatwe use for I don't know if you
remember that I do audio at mychurch and there's like these
sweet like two by 12s to aboutlike two by 24 inch acoustic
panels and you can get a set offour for like 60, 70 bucks on
Amazon.
That's a lot.
Dude but you're making billionsoff of this podcast by now.

Speaker 2 (00:42):
I don't.
I don't think I need that manyright now, and it's probably
better for music stuff yeahthere's not a whole lot of
bouncing off the walls whenwe're just talking.
Oh, dude if we get loud androwdy uh-huh sometimes that can
happen, but I think that's withevery podcast, yeah that.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
That's usually how it goes, unless you get one of
those crazy episodes.
Or one day you just invite abunch of girls that do the
horrible things and then youjust have this big old debate
about stuff and then they getloud.
And then you get loud and thenit's like whoa.

Speaker 2 (01:13):
Since this is a Christian podcast, I need you to
explain what girls doinghorrible things mean.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
Selling drugs OnlyFans.
I don't want Shall I continue.

Speaker 2 (01:27):
No, I wouldn't have.
No, I wouldn't have those girlson here.
Those, those podcasts are sopointless they are.

Speaker 1 (01:30):
I've come to realize I get like snippets randomly on
instagram every now and againand it's just like why, why, why
even had these conversations atall?

Speaker 2 (01:38):
you know, because it sells, I guess it sells because
it gets people to believe thatthat's how every girl is and
then they just get angry.
The guys watching just getangrier and angrier at women
yeah and so they just want tokeep watching more of those
podcasts.
It's like, man, these, thesewomen are getting so owned right
now and it's just like, yeah,there's girls out there that do

(02:02):
that, but that's not all of them, and there is still good women
out there.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
There is, it sells, it does sell, and that's the
part that sucks.

Speaker 2 (02:11):
But anyway, that's my little rant, for today Also,
that rock right there, yeah, thefurthest one from you.
Yeah, from Mammoth Cave.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Oh my gosh, it's been a while since we've been up
there or down there.

Speaker 2 (02:25):
I think it's been almost a whole year.

Speaker 1 (02:27):
Almost a whole year.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:28):
Dude, I remember catching one of the little drips
from the stalagmites.
Is that the proper one?
They're stalagmites, and thestalagmites are in the bottom,
Stalactites are top right, Idon't know.
I don't remember I alwaysthought they were all just
called stalagmites, but it'slike the drops, and then I was
like I wanted to like break atip off just because.

Speaker 2 (02:48):
And then obviously, that is so illegal.

Speaker 1 (02:50):
It is.
That's why I didn't do it.
I wanted to.

Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yeah, I think we all did yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:56):
It was super cool.
What a good time that was.
I remember we were, we had liketwo packets of hot dogs and we
just like went to town on thatwhole entire thing.
We had like no hot dogs left.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
You know that, yeah, between four guys, four guys I
feel like that's pretty normal.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yeah, that's true.
I don't know what it is when itcomes to camping, like my
appetite is so much larger and Ijust can eat more, but when I'm
at home it's like I don't evenwant to touch more than two or
three hot dogs.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
I think it's because you're cooking them on the fire.
You're with everybody.
It's a good time.
You're out in the elements.
Yeah, so I think, even justbeing out in the elements,
you're just burning morecalories.
Because your body it wasbecause it was cold.
It was cold, so we had to keepwarm.
And why is it?
What's funny?

Speaker 1 (03:46):
because it's just I just remember we were like
trying to like stay warm, um,and then you can like when the
what is it?
When we were done putting theair and stuff like that and
trying to get comfy, and all ofa sudden you just hear eli's
headphones playing music in thebackground.
That's just what it caught mein right now, oh yeah, he would
sleep with those on yeah, Idon't know how he did that I

(04:08):
don't know.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
Oh, sometimes there's that famous dog.

Speaker 1 (04:12):
How do you know, dude , I watch the show.
What do you mean?

Speaker 2 (04:16):
oh, yeah, so yeah apparently you can't really hear
it, but you can hear it whenwe're recording right now.
It's really really annoyingyeah, I love it.

Speaker 1 (04:24):
It's hey, it brings character to your podcast.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yeah, it really does.

Speaker 1 (04:29):
What do you think?
What kind of dog is it?
You would know, it's yourneighbor, right?

Speaker 2 (04:32):
I don't talk to him.
I haven't met any of myneighbors.

Speaker 1 (04:34):
You don't talk to your neighbors.
No Dude in the Bible.
It's like you should makefriends with your neighbor.

Speaker 2 (04:40):
He says you should love your neighbors.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Hey, go love them.

Speaker 2 (04:47):
You can love people from afar.
That's fair.
Anyway, today we are going tobe talking about secular music.
Yeah, I know.
Big gasp and its impact onChristians how we think we
should go about it.
So let's start it off with whatinitially got you into music.

(05:13):
We'll start there, just sopeople can get to know you a
little bit.

Speaker 1 (05:16):
Yeah, so I'm Andy.
If you guys don't remember me,I used to.
Actually, we used to hang outall the time with the Monday
morning podcasts.
Yep, good times, those were,were, I am thinking about
bringing those ones back, do it.
They were, they were fun.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
I don't even know if you still get emails for that
anymore no, I well, I haven'tchecked, but if, when we do
start doing it, I won't like Iwon't ask everybody to do it all
the time but right, I'm gonnahave it where it's just audio
and no, no video.
This one I want to focus onvideo to help grow it.
But the time, but right, I'mgonna have it where it's just
audio and no, no video this one.
I want to focus on video tohelp grow it, but the other one
is just like.
I just want to like put them outgood idea and it's just easier.

Speaker 1 (05:51):
Yeah, just like with like any of our friends that
release music, just putting itout just a bunch of singles and
stuff like that yeah so you'redoing the same thing.
I like that good plan, but um,where were we?
Rabbit trailed a little bit.

Speaker 2 (06:04):
You getting into music.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Yes, I was around 11 years old and I didn't really
think of it too much, but it wasa church service and the guitar
player was just playing areally cool thing on the guitar,
nothing too complex or anythinglike that.
But I was like, holy cow, thesong sounds, sounds awesome, and

(06:27):
the electric guitar just lookscool.
Right, yeah, like let's.
Let's be honest, the electricguitar is a fun instrument.
And so I was like whoa.
And then I don't know what itwas.
Um, I think what activated thata little bit more was um, I used
to get dropped off, uh, toschool from my uncle and, uh, he
would always have like thecoolest cds he used to, he used

(06:50):
to burn music and, uh, likeblank cds and stuff like that.
Oh yeah, good times, good olddays.
And, uh, he would have like led, zeppelin, motley crew, acdc
and all these other crazy bandsjust playing and I was like this
, this is cool, this is this iscool, this is this is cool.
And then I was like, is thatwhat the guitar does?
I don't even know if I sangthat part wrong, I forgive me.

(07:13):
Acdc, um, but I was like, ohman, that's, that's sweet.
And so, um, I don't know around,maybe during the summer.
I was like talking to mygrandpa and I was like I want to
play guitar, I want to learnhow to play guitar.
And he's like you realize howmuch a guitar costs?

(07:33):
And I was like I was like, yeah, but I want to play it, I want
one so bad and so, um, it waslike all of my aunts and uncles
and my grandpa like pitchingmoney and they bought me like my
first cheapy little acousticguitar.
It's like a first act acousticguitar too, like a Walmart brand
, yeah.
And then I was, I was, I wasgiddy, you know, and, um, I was

(07:55):
just obviously didn't have ateacher yet, and so it was like,
well, you know, just strummingaround and making random noise,
and then one of my uncles waslike it sounds like poop.
But he said the other word,yeah, anyway.
So I was like, well, I don'tknow how to play.
He's like you should get ateacher.
And going back to the churchservice, um, of this church I

(08:17):
used to go to back in Holland,um, and the guitar player.
He was like their main guitarplayer and I asked them I was
like, can you teach me how toplay guitar?
And he taught me for threemonths and then he moved to
missouri and then that was thatfor the time being.
Uh, and I was like I don't knowanybody else, I don't know
where to go to learn guitar.

(08:38):
Um, so I was like youtube andall of the things, and YouTube
just started introducing Wasthere a lot of good lessons on
YouTube back then.
They were okay.
They were more awkward thananything, cause I think at that
time nobody knew how to takevideos of themselves.

Speaker 2 (08:56):
Yeah, and it was probably just like set up.
I don't even know if they'dreally have phones for that but
they just like put a camera onthem.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Yeah like a nice little.

Speaker 2 (09:07):
It's not like they don't have an internal cord
going into the camera thatactually records the good audio.

Speaker 1 (09:14):
It would be like You'd get room audio yeah
basically, I just remember oneguy I would watch and he would
always be in this high chair andhe'd just try to be so formal
about it and he's like, hey, howyou doing you know, like we're
going to learn about scalestoday.
Today's scale is the B scale.
And I was like, yeah, you know.
And so from there I juststarted learning more and more

(09:37):
and within all these videos Iwas like finding more music and
stuff like that.
And funny enough, on the topic,it was a lot of secular music.
Yeah, cause I, I at times Ithought that the worship music
sounded kind of bland aroundthat time, still so it's not
like today's cool like Maverickcity and I think it's upper room

(09:58):
.
Yeah, it is.
No it's not, it's great.

Speaker 2 (10:03):
Well, my church doesn't really play a lot of
Maverick City or Upper Room.
It's mostly older.
Oh, you get the classics.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Yeah, shout to the Lord.

Speaker 2 (10:12):
Like that.
Yeah, Some of it iscontemporary because we just
have two acoustic guitars, adrum set that's in a cage oh
nice A bass and a piano player.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Okay, do you play bass for them?
No, oh, you don't play bass forchurches anymore.

Speaker 2 (10:29):
I don't ever play bass.
I think what happened was whenI was practicing for two to
three hours a day, I got as goodas I could get, and then, when
you're even moderately good as abassist, everybody wants you to
play.
Yeah, that's fair.

(10:51):
Yeah.
So I'm almost in the boat of Ijust don't ever want to play it
again, because at res I wasplaying Sundays, wednesdays,
thursdays.
Yeah, you were booked.
I remember that.
Yeah, I was in bands.
People wanted me to be in theirbands.
Then if there's likeextracurricular worship, like
that's outside of res, I was theguy they'd call and like as

(11:15):
good as that is and as fun as itwas, it's still like man, I'm
just burned out.
Yeah, so I think I'm taking abreak from playing.
I haven't sold it, so I'm not.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
I don't want to say I'm completely done, but yeah,
you're just taking it as it isright now.

Speaker 2 (11:31):
Yeah, and and trying to balance the podcast, the work
, yeah, and I'm trying to readbooks because I do want to start
doing book reviews on here,which I think would be really
cool because, that way I couldget, uh, single episodes out
where it's just me.
So that's what I'm kind offocusing on.
So the base has taken abackseat.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
Okay, yeah, heck yeah , that's fine, that's all right.
Sometimes you got to take abreak, you know, with the
hobbies and stuff like that.
I think right now too, I'm at apay at a place where I haven't
really been doing too muchelectric guitar stuff,
especially with, uh, my band.
Um, I don't do a lot of the alot of the guitar writing

(12:11):
anymore.
I write like the bare bones andthen I have a couple friends
that just kind of help outwithin that now oh, so you're
just writing the songs now.
Yeah, so okay, yeah I, I do thekind of like the structure and
just kind of put my vision intoit, and then everybody else just
kind of puts some meat in allthat other good stuff for the

(12:32):
song.
And that's kind of how itstarted off now, because all
these members are just basicallybrand new, with Bree, jay and
Sully, who just recently joined,being official members, and
then um in the talks of gettinga good friend of mine, uh, that
I used to know his name isDaniel Um, really cool guitar

(12:54):
player too.
And then possibly maybe there'sa there's a chance that I could
get Noah back in the in thescene.
Oh yeah, nobody knows who thesepeople are.
Yeah, yeah.
Nobody knows, but, um, they'reall some really cool friends and
uh, yeah, funny enough, we just, we just uh, we don't

(13:15):
necessarily write christianmusic, um, but we do write, just
, yeah, I'll say secular,whatever you want to label it as
, but it's like where the it'sactually anti-christian
anti-christian, that's fair.
Yeah, anything that's screamoright now is all anti-christian
chansky always thought screamingwas demonic that's, that's true

(13:39):
, I?
I think I remember one time jtdon't know if I can say whatever
.

Speaker 2 (13:45):
No, people aren't gonna know who he is.
I would listen to screamo allthe time, which was always weird
because he was more of thereally fundamentalist crowd of
christianity and really strict,but then he'd be really down for
screamo.
I miss that guy so much In mymind yeah.
I gotta I gotta hit him upagain, cause he hit me up a
couple of months ago and we weregoing to get lunch and then it

(14:08):
just didn't happen.
But I gotta get.
I gotta get him on here.

Speaker 1 (14:13):
Oh, dude, yeah, he's, he's, uh, he's married now,
right.
Yeah, yeah, dude, he's marriednow, right, yeah, yeah, dude,
way to go.
I remember he was trying tofind himself a lady back when we
knew him.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (14:24):
So anyway, but yeah, you're in a secular band, yeah.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
Funny how that all goes and that's actually the fun
thing that we're going to talkabout today and on how that
really works.
But the way we write our music,or the way I write the music,
it's just like there isn't a lotof like heavy Christian aspects
into the music, but there isthat sense of it in there, while

(14:51):
with right now kind of likedoing like a story thing, where
it's like right now we are in apoint where love is lost.
Right now we're trying to findthis hope, this love, this, this
thing that we can look to thatcan help us get through our
mistakes and all our issues andall our you know, all our
downfalls yeah, but somebodycould make the argument that

(15:14):
that thing that we're lookingfor should be, of course, God,
More specifically Jesus Christ,because you can say God and that
can mean a lot of things, yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
So how do we reconcile writing secular music
and for everybody here, I'm justgoing to preface it with I do
record for a secular band, sothis is not me coming with a
hammer down yeah, judgmentalagainst Andy with I do record
for a secular band, so this isnot me coming with the hammer
down yeah, judgmental againstandy.
I'm genuinely wondering,because the reason why and I've
been having these conversationswith a lot of people is because

(15:47):
I'm actually conflicted andbeing in a secular band right
right now.
It's not conviction, it's notlike a heavy conviction that's
burdensome and holding me down,but there is this conflict in me
, like should I be doing thisRight?
That's fair.

Speaker 1 (16:04):
Yeah, I mean, if any, if that is the case, what I can
say if you do feel conflictedand if you are like should I be
doing this, that obviously kindof just would indicate
immediately like maybe I shouldlet this go, kind of thing.
Yeah, but that's john, I lovethat guy too.
But yeah, I mean if it.

(16:25):
If it's something where youfeel like this is like way, way
bad, like your heart it doesn'tfeel like in the right place and
you just feel mentally that youjust can't do it anymore or
don't want to do it anymore,that's something that you should
let go and and that goes foranybody, and it depends on how
you feel.
With my music, I haven't feltthe need that I needed to stop.

(16:46):
In fact, I feel like I'veneeded to do it more, where,
like I said, going into it, it'slike we're in the chapter of
trying to find this love.
And I will get to the point.
It's funny enough that youmentioned it, like finding that
love that is Jesus Christ, where, yes, I, all of my songs are

(17:06):
very, very much internal,dealing with a lot of the stuff
that I've dealt with, wherelosing my grandmother wrote a
song about, about that it'scalled pneumonia.
It's probably one of myfavorites that I've written, or
writing just one, that whereyou're dealing with depression,
and that was one that John wason and just you know these

(17:29):
things was like, oh, would it bedifferent if I was happy.
But what's going to make mehappy in the end?
Right now we're, like I said,we're still trying to find that.
What is that?
But my biggest thing withsecular music, I think it's
based more on how you look at itspiritually and how you want to
interpret it, because obviously, music is like a poem and poems

(17:53):
are like books and books arejust these pages of knowledge
and a story and books are justthese pages of knowledge and a
story and you want to be able tounderstand what is written
there or what you're writing,whether you know.
Vice versa, the dog is crazy.

(18:14):
Yeah, my thing with that isthat, like, for me, when I try
to reconcile and try to figurethese things out, it's on the
idea of like, well, am I doingthis for the right reasons?
There has been songs that Iactually stopped writing because
I just felt it wasn't a messagethat needed to be heard or that
needed to be done.
You were actually a part ofSignal the Skies for a little

(18:37):
while, yeah, and I don'tremember I don't know if you
remember, sorry, if when westarted writing, the song Drown
a while back and that one waskind of in a dark place and
finally getting back to it andstarting to write it again and
do some rewriting and stuff likethat, I just felt very

(18:58):
conflicted with the lyrics andthe way the structure was and I
let it go.
I am not planning to releasethat song ever, um, just because
it's just too dark and I feellike it's not something that
it's funny enough to say thatGod wants me to put out Um where
, yes, a lot of songs that Ihave written are kind of dark,

(19:19):
but it's more on the aspectwhere I've noticed that these
things are things that peoplecan relate to.
Um.
Last year I released five songsand they all had something very
, very intense that havehappened throughout that whole
entire year or a couple of yearsback.
Um leaving was a funny enoughabout an ex-girlfriend, um,

(19:42):
where it was the, the wholebreakup situation.
But the reason for the breakupis you both realized it was so
unhealthy and so unnatural andso evil.
Um, I wasn't a good boyfriendand she wasn't a good girlfriend
during that time and, um, thatwas when I kind of didn't rely

(20:06):
on God and I more relied on thatrelationship.
And so it's like okay, this onefelt okay to put out and, uh,
it was a fun one.
It's very, very poppy and very.
It was a fun one.
It's very, very poppy and very,very heavy at the same time.
But I felt like there's manypeople that could relate to that

(20:30):
one and it was just one ofthose things that I just kind of
allowed myself to pray about itand I felt like it was just one
of those things where God waslike, yeah, go ahead.
You know, see where it goes.
Pneumonia is the loss of mygrandmother, which anyone can

(20:50):
interpret it as when they loseanyone in their lives, and so I
was hoping that people and thatone actually tracked quite a bit
.
I recorded that one with afriend of Eli's.
He introduced me to them, hewas like from Canada or
something like that, so it wasjust one of those ones that I
wanted to put out and I didn'thave anybody to record it with
at the time.
So Eli's like yeah, check outthis Canadian dude.

(21:12):
I was like all right, hey, butyeah, um, but uh, yeah, and so
he kind of was he was sayinglike dude, this one's like heavy
emotionally and like he's likefunny enough like I lost
somebody in my life too.
So I I kind of thank you forlike allowing me to work on this

(21:32):
.
And that's when I also knew like, okay, this is a good one to
put out too.
Um, I'm not even going to talk.
Well, I can talk about Violet,cause that one's a fun one too.
That one's about Bailey Um,that one's neither a mistake nor
an issue.
Uh, but yeah, that one's juston the.
Uh, that was just a fun one towrite, cause my wife was like

(21:53):
you never write a song about meand I was like bet, and so
Violet came out, took me likefour months to write that one.
I didn't know what I was doing.
And that was still at the pointwhere I still remember when you
were telling me, like Andy, youdon't know how to sing, and I
was like, okay, I gotta, I gotta, get better at this if I want
to be the singer, and so, butthat one flexed my, my singing

(22:15):
vocals a little bit with alittle bit of auto tune.
I still use the little tiny bitthere, but anyway I'm.
I'm talking too much about it,but it's one of those things.
How I try and work with it isjust understanding how people
can interpret this music, youknow.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (22:34):
I listened to a lot of metal and a lot of like rock
and sometimes like some rapstuff and a little bit of
country now too, but it's basedon for me it's based on how you
can interpret it and how youallow that song to affect you
emotionally.

Speaker 2 (22:51):
Yeah, where, for example, if you are listening to
like Lana Del Rey, a lot of hermusic is very sad and slow and
well, a lot of it's very sensual, that too that's part of the
reason why I stopped listening,because, like, yeah, she has a
great voice and the genre thatshe's been put in is officially

(23:13):
hollywood sadcore is what it'scalled I like that word.
So it's cool music and it'slike noir type.
Yeah, right, it's called, Ilike that word.
So it's cool music and it'slike noir type.
Right, it's like Frank Sinatrasounding.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:22):
Like something you could hear in a jazz club, but
man, some of it.
She's like talking about havingaffairs with dudes, like
especially her earlier stuff.
It's like it's even it's pastsecular and onto just straight
up evil.

Speaker 1 (23:36):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:42):
And it sucks because she's so.
Her songs are so well writtenand she has like a one in a
million type of way she sings,like sometimes she just like
says the weirdest words, yeah,but I would say like, yeah, some
of her songs are quite sensualyeah, they're.

Speaker 1 (23:55):
Yeah, she's a heavily sensual.
I've never like so sad closerto god.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
Listening to her music is that so I said it never
felt closer, uh, but some.
But I will say her some of hersad songs do do like reach a
certain part of your yeah.

Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah and yeah, just going into that, it's just.
I think for me it's just howyou interpret it, how you want
to see this song and what itspeaks to you.
Obviously, with worship musicit's always about God's love and
, you know, redemption andvictory and all these beautiful
appraisal type things, andthat's good, that's great.

(24:40):
Sometimes I just, for me, Ineed to hear more of when I'm in
the rut, you know.

Speaker 2 (24:48):
Yeah, yeah, because I'm not against sad music.
I know there's this new liketoxic positivity going around
the mainline church.
That's like if you listen to,if you wonder why you're
depressed, look at the music.
But you're listening to andit's like sometimes you need to
be sad, yeah, and you need thosesongs.
And it's like, don't tell menot to be, because psalms out of

(25:08):
150 of them, there's some ofthem where david writes, where
it's like, bro, what is he goingthrough?

Speaker 1 (25:13):
yeah, yeah, talk about dark.
No, yeah, it's so.
Oh my gosh, that's actuallywhat I wanted to bring up, like,
yeah, david wrote some crazystuff in the Psalms.
Yeah, one moment he's like ohGod, you care for me so much,
you love me so much.
Next verse is like you willkill my enemies and slaughter
them, and the blood shall rainand I will be free.

(25:33):
And I was like All right dude.

Speaker 2 (25:36):
Then there's the other ones where he's like how
long are you going to forget myname?

Speaker 1 (25:40):
Yeah, yeah Like.

Speaker 2 (25:42):
I don't, I don't feel you here and it seems as if
you're, you don't exist.
Those aren't the exact words,but that's what it sounds like
he's talking about.

Speaker 1 (25:50):
Yeah, and yeah and like, and that's the same thing
too is like how you interpretthe Bible.
How do you interpret music, youknow, and so music is a joyful
noise, as you know one would say, in in the church or anyone in
general that listens to music.
But, yeah, and then justanother thing too is like when

(26:14):
I'm writing, I will always thinkand pray about the song.
Like that's just what I do, umand with with a little bit on
the on the nose.
I actually have one of myfriends his name is Estevan and,
uh, he was actually in one ofmy recent tracks and, uh, the

(26:36):
way he just always interpretsthings and tries to help me with
my lyric writing a little bit,he's, he's on, he's on a verge
where he's actually writing abook, I believe too, but it's
just his way of how heinterprets, and when he helps me
write my lyrics, he's like well, this is, I believe, the story
that you're portraying and whatyou want to do, um, and so it

(26:58):
kind of helps a little bit tooand that brings more positivity
in in in my brain for that.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Yeah, I would say that, especially with being in a
secular band, going on tours,having shows, you could be
bringing in a Christian crowd.
There might be Christian peoplecoming, but there's also always
going to be a non-Christiancrowd.
And so one of the fears that Iwould have and this is where one

(27:28):
of the conflicts coming in withbeing in a secular band is at
one point you're going to haveto compromise something.
Yeah, because you have thiscrowd and if you start preaching
and I'm talking like biblicalgospel, like not holding back-
yeah.
You are going to lose thosepeople.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:49):
And if you, all of your money and revenue is coming
in from both sides, all of asudden you have to stand up for
your faith and lose half of yourmoney or more, or you
compromise and you keep youraudience, but the doors of
heaven are starting to close foryou.

Speaker 1 (28:09):
Yeah, no, that's actually cool to bring that up.
I will just go out and say it.
As much as I am writing thismusic for the people to hear,
I'm okay with losing a listener.
I'm okay with if someonedoesn't agree with what I see,
because at the end of the day, Iwill write about what brings

(28:32):
positivity in my life, and thatis Christ.
There's nothing in this worldthat does the same that what God
would do for me, you know, yeah, so I mean, and if it ever
comes to when I play shows and Idon't know if I would I'm 30
years old now Uh, don't know,don't know if I really well, I'm
going to be 30,.
Sorry, but I'm already callingit.

(28:52):
Uh but I don't know if I wantto be out there, 30 years old
and headbanging my head off infront of a couple.

Speaker 2 (29:02):
So is it more just like you're doing this as a side
job.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:08):
Maybe not do it full time.
You do it, you're passionateabout it, but you don't want it
to be your main income.
Yeah, pretty much.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
It's a hobby of mine, it's something that I just
enjoy doing yeah and uh, yeah,whatever effects it takes, you
know, then you know, so be it.
I just think for me it's like,if I mean, if god wanted me to
go on tour or something likethat, then okay, but it's that
would take money and time, ummore sacrifices than I'm not

(29:39):
really.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Yeah, it's hard when you're married.

Speaker 1 (29:40):
Yeah, especially that Like if I go on tour, I'm
leaving my wife alone andleaving my jobs behind and stuff
like that, and I don't want todo that.
So, yeah, the music thing ismostly for fun and, like I said,
going back to it, it's like I'mokay with losing a listener,
I'm okay with the fact that,like, if I ever do play a show
and I'm like, hey, I'm herebecause of God and I want you to

(30:02):
know that, even though all ofthis stuff is so depressing, I
want you to know that, at theend of the day, I want you to
look to God, to this positivitybehind all of this.
Um, and if people are like boo,and I'll be like, well, boo,
you dude, you know, like,whatever I I know where I stand,
but uh, yeah, that's just mytake on that.

(30:26):
And I think it's also the factthat, like I mean, if you look
at it, like you, any, any singeror artist is going to have both
sides of the spectrum and theirlisteners.
You know, like, look at nf,like he is a christian person
who writes what I say, secularor whatever but anyway he has
both sides of the spectrumwithin that, both christian and

(30:48):
non-christian people that listento him.
Um, and I think it's just thefact, on how you want to talk
about it, where people will belike, whoa, I respect that, like
I don't think there's too manypeople out there that are like,
oh, I don't want to listen to NFanymore because he's Christian,
you know.

Speaker 2 (31:04):
Yeah, but I also think that a lot of the
non-Christian listeners of hislisten to him because he's not
as polarized as a Christianshould be Right.
That's fair too, because, likewhen you claim jesus and jesus,
uh, unabridged right, like thefull gospel, people are don't

(31:26):
like you, right, it's just howit goes, no matter, no matter
what.
So I'd like.
That's where my disconnect is.
I don't think it's a sin tolisten to nf.
That's not what I'm saying.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
No.

Speaker 2 (31:36):
Yeah, but is he really living a Christian
lifestyle of secular people areall into him because Jesus
didn't like pretend to besomething.
He wasn't around non-Christians.
He was Jesus through andthrough Right and that's why he
made so many people mad andnobody had to question.

(31:57):
I wonder what this guy's about?
No, they just knew.

Speaker 1 (32:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
With NF.
It's like if you're listeningto him and somebody doesn't tell
you that he's a Christian rapartist you wouldn't think.

Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yeah, you wouldn't think of it.
Yeah, that's fair, yeah, andthat's another one of my well.
I guess I'm going to ask you tolike how do you like, how do
you intake the, the whole musicthing?
Like I know, you probablylisten to a couple secular

(32:28):
artists and Christian artistsLike how to?
How do you take it for yourselfLike, um, if you're ever
listening to Lana Del Rey or Idon't remember what else you
listen to right now the WhiteStripes.

Speaker 2 (32:42):
No, I do not listen to the White Stripes.

Speaker 1 (32:45):
I'm kidding, but anyway, whatever music you
listen to right now, how do youlet that affect you?
And are you just listening justto listen to it at this time,
or are you actually like payingattention to things within the
music?

Speaker 2 (32:58):
It's a good question.
I do listen to secular music.
Right now it's jason isbell inthe 400 unit.
It's like a neo blues band,really good yeah it's chris
stapleton I've been listening to, and then some sam barber.
Um, what did you ask?
Sorry, how?

Speaker 1 (33:19):
do you let it affect you?

Speaker 2 (33:21):
how do I let it affect me?
Um, it's like if they startsinging about drinking or some
sexual act that happened.
Like if, even if it's aninnuendo, like oh, I slipped him
the hotel room key right likewe know where that's.
It's like I try and turn it offbecause and not listen to that

(33:43):
song, because I know that thedevil is smart, not evil.
I'm sorry, he's evil, not dumb.
Wow, yeah, he's definitely anevil guy, but we always think of
him as because he loses thebattle in the end as just dumb.
But he's really not he's.
He's smart and evil you can beboth, and so that's a slippery

(34:07):
slope because you start thinkingthat it puts that little image
in your head of what would it belike if I could be with
somebody who slips me the road.
The hotel room key yeah, likejust one night of fun yeah, or
what, yeah, or whatever, yeahand so that's how it affects me
is, as I know, that when there'ssongs like that, if I keep

(34:29):
listening to even that specificsong or they have other songs
like that, eventually it's goingto lead down to the path of me
going about that lifestyle.
Now, listening to other songsthat are just purely secular and
there's nothing like they'renot praising Jesus but they're

(34:49):
also not singing about evil,it's just life.
Yeah, I don't necessarily thinkthat's a bad thing, but I'm at
the point in my life where Ihope I become so enthralled by
God that he and his glory, thathe makes it so that my desires
don't even want to listen tothat anymore, that's.

(35:12):
that's where I'm at.

Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, that's a good growth thing right there too.

Speaker 2 (35:16):
Yeah, but am I there yet?
No, I'm not.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
Yeah, I think it's also just really hard.
I mean, I I know plenty ofChristian people that will still
listen to secular music, butthey mostly just listen to it
for fun.
It's like an ebb and flow typeof situation where it's like oh
yeah, you know, like sometimesif you're going to the gym, you
know.

Speaker 2 (35:34):
Yeah, yeah, and that's where I listen.
That's mostly where I listen tomusic, because I don't really
listen to a whole lot of musicin the car or when I'm at work,
it's mostly just at the gym.

Speaker 1 (35:44):
Yeah, yeah.
It's just one of those thingswhere it's like, well, you don't
want to like pump up to God'snot dead.
You know, I'd rather listen to.
I don't know, what do youlisten to nowadays?
Like T-Pain or something likethat at the gym?
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
Whatever anybody listens to, you know what I'm
saying.
I.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
I think T-Pain was making a comeback for a little
bit.
What a guy.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
Yeah, but then it fell off again.

Speaker 1 (36:08):
Yeah, it's T-Pain.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
It is, he comes and goes.

Speaker 1 (36:11):
No one wants to hear the good old yeah, well, that
was Lil Jon.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
No, not the when he used to do so many songs.

Speaker 1 (36:23):
Yeah, the auto-tune with Chris Brown all the time.
Not Christian, chris Brownbrown, not the guy that sings uh
, uh.
What's it called praise um withuh.
Was that maverick city?

Speaker 2 (36:31):
praise.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
Give him praise that one, no, not that one, that
one's, that one's funny too, uh.
No, the other one, the one thateverybody, everybody was
listening to for a while.
Uh, praise the lord, oh my souloh yeah yeah, it's chris brown,
and uh, that other famoussinger that did that song with
jelly roll that's yes, that'sanother thing that I wanted to

(36:56):
talk about.

Speaker 2 (36:57):
I I don't, I don't think that's good.
I, um, I'm with you on that one.
I want to preface it with, Idon't know, jelly rolls heart.
Yeah, I'm not god, but I, I cansay that with his songs on
spotify that still have explicitlabels, and I mean it's a lot

(37:18):
of songs, even if it was justwanted to be like bro, what are
you doing?
But yeah there's a lot of hissongs have explicit label on
them.
Uh, he also has that song likehalfway to heaven, halfway to
hell.

Speaker 1 (37:29):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:29):
I think really promotes lukewarm Christianity,
which Jesus warns us about.
Yep, I think that there's a fewproblems with the Brandon, like
in general song.

Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (37:40):
First of all, what does it say about us Christians
If Brandon Lake says I'm goingto have jelly roll on my song
Because he knows that hislisteners know who jelly roll?

Speaker 1 (37:49):
is yeah, oh yeah, a hundred percent.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
So that's the first problem.

Speaker 1 (37:53):
Yeah, when I heard that he was going to do his and
what the, the, the hard foughthallelujah song, right, and I
was already very I wasn't such ahuge fan of that song.
I don't such a huge fan of thatsong.
I don't know why it's.
I mean it sounds good.
I just don't like the ideawhere it's like it doesn't feel
like like the Christian songthat needs to be heard.

(38:16):
You know what I mean.
But like I get it.
I mean, you know, it's one ofthose things where it's like,
you know, even though I'mstruggling, like I'm still kind
of thing, but it's like the wayhe was, like the way it's done.
It's not my favorite thing, youknow.
I think he tries too much toand what I think what he's doing
is just bringing a little bitof that, that secular style,
into this and that's kind ofsomething that's like.

(38:38):
Well, you do realize that a lotof songs you write like we want
to play them at the church tooyou know, like a lot of churches
would play a lot of thesemaverick city songs or whatever,
like praise, yeah, but isanybody really going to want to
try and play hard foughthallelujah probably churches are
becoming more and more worldlyas we speak maybe not my church,

(39:00):
but my church isn't on thatlike whole, like mega church.
Yeah, mine isn't either it's.

Speaker 2 (39:05):
It's so weird now where like church is so
different for me, but the big,mega churches are mega for a
reason they're popular becausethey feed into people's fleshly
desires in one way or anotheryeah they have these simple,
like emotional, like a rockconcert gets you emotional and

(39:26):
then it gets you primed fortheir watered down gospel sermon
where it has to be entertained,entertaining, wow.

Speaker 1 (39:36):
Yeah, well, that's what it is, it's like like when
you think about it.

Speaker 2 (39:40):
Jesus was not popular .

Speaker 1 (39:42):
No, he was, yeah, no, he was very much hated and you
know, no, and I get that.

Speaker 2 (39:47):
And I'm not saying like church growth can't happen,
but when it's to a point whereyou're just having thousands of
people come in and it speaks tothem and it speaks to just
anybody like, you should beoffering people something new.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:01):
And the thing about mega churches is they're trying
to look just like the world sothat they can win people of the
world, but in reality they onlywin people to that there's not
actually a new thing beingoffered.
Jesus is like hey, don't befriends with the world.
You're in this world but you'renot of this world.
And so I think, that when youhave churches like that you just

(40:22):
have to win them.
You have to keep them with whatyou win them over at.
Yeah, I think that when youhave churches like that, it you
just have to win them, you haveto keep them with what you win
them over at.

Speaker 1 (40:29):
Yeah, I think Jesus needs to just come back and
quickly flip some more tablesagain, you know like yeah.
Like you remember when it waslike, what were they doing in
the churches?
Again they were.
They were doing like some sortof type the selling stuff.
Yeah, they was stuff.
Yeah, they was.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
They were like doing like markets or whatever and
that's why I get uncomfortableand churches have like
bookstores and clothing stuffcoffee shops yeah, good coffee,
but you know but it is weirdthat like they're selling stuff
and it's overpriced.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
That's true.

Speaker 2 (41:00):
I'm not, I'm not gonna name the church, but we
can both make six bucks on a ona small coffee.

Speaker 1 (41:06):
I know what you're talking about.
Yeah, we can.

Speaker 2 (41:07):
We can both think of a church that we've both
attended.

Speaker 1 (41:13):
That do that yeah but anyway, going back because, uh,
we keep re-advertising andthat's okay, uh, but it's just
like hearing that song and thenall of a sudden he's like hey,
I'm re-releasing it, but I'mgonna have a secular artist.
I can't remember who I talkedto.
It was one of my friends andshe was very, very concerned and
like her spirit did not feeleasy with it, and neither did I,

(41:36):
cause I was like well, I'veheard songs from jelly roll.
The dude does not like speaklike any type of good thing.

Speaker 2 (41:44):
He claims to be Christian and struggling with
his faith, and it's okay to bestruggling with your faith and
having things but like dog.
Yeah, there's a differencebetween struggling and having
like blatant sinful songs.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (42:06):
And all that jazz on your music profile.
Yeah, 100 profile.
Yeah, that's why I think Idon't know there's.
There's plenty of artists thathave definitely taken that route
too, like christian artists.
Um, going back to nf, Iremember he brought tech nine.
Which tech?

Speaker 2 (42:21):
nine that's that's.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Yeah, that's an issue , yeah and tech nine is one9ne
is one of those very heavy onthe.
What he raps about isn't great.

Speaker 2 (42:30):
Oh, I know.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
He's fun to listen to .
Every now and again he'll popup in my stuff, but not all the
time.
But anyway, tech N9ne is one ofthose heavy, very, very
non-Christian rappers and themoment I saw him on an NF song I
was like, oh man, like NF isbranching out to all of these
things.
Now, granted, yeah, I think he.
He is more on like the writing,the secular style, more than

(42:54):
anything.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
Um, well, it's money.
Yeah, you start getting thatmoney.
It's like you will compromise.

Speaker 1 (43:01):
I mean the.

Speaker 2 (43:02):
Bible warns about it plenty of times, about being
rich.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
Yeah, I, I wish I had a little bit more knowledge on
the biblical aspect ofeverything.
But it's like I mean you canbreak it down a little bit where
it's like, yeah, like the Bibledoes warn us, like all these
things that seem good, you know,aren't actually good.

Speaker 2 (43:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:25):
And so.

Speaker 2 (43:26):
Because I just read in first Timothy I think it was
the last chapter of firstTimothy he says I have food and
clothing, so I'm content.
Why do I need all these riches?
Because riches and money is theroot of all kinds of evil.

Speaker 1 (43:42):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:43):
And it's like I think that's what happens with
Christian artists like NF.
I'm not going to say whether ornot he's with christian artists
like nf.
I'm not gonna say whether ornot he's saved I.
I don't know, I'm not god yeahbut he's having tech nine on bro
like he's not.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
He's not being led by the holy spirit.
I can confidently say that yeah, yeah, no, especially you know
he has like tech nine and uhhobson also.
Um, I was very impressed withthe idea that they didn't like
say anything like completelyvulgar in the nf songs.

Speaker 2 (44:09):
I think they strayed away from what they normally rap
about but like I guess yeah,but still it's still like
fellowshipping with somebody whohas no shame to be a part of
the world.

Speaker 1 (44:20):
It's like a very unequally yoked relationship
type of situation but christomlin did that same thing.

Speaker 2 (44:26):
he he had an album with like oh yeah, Chris Tomlin
and friends.
Then it had a bunch of countryartists on there and it's like
here's Thomas Rhett praisingJesus, but he's got a whole
album about drinking beer.
It's like what do we?
What are we doing?
I?
just and and that's what Iwanted to go with, because the
second part of the problem withthe jelly roll and Brandon
Brandon Lake, as well as theChris Tomlin and Friends album

(44:49):
and NF and Tech N9ne, I thinkthat it's the merging of the
church and the world.
Yeah, so we're, you know, likethe one world religion they talk
about.
You can't get Christians tostart believing that unless you
start merging and making it easyto become a Christian, because
that's another thing Jesus talksabout.
Is it making it easy to becomea christian?
Because that's another thingjesus talks about.
Is it ain't easy to followjesus?

(45:11):
no, it's not path is narrow,many are called, but few are
chosen, like that's.
Those verses should really makeus start to think yeah, that's
scary.

Speaker 1 (45:21):
It is scary to think about.

Speaker 2 (45:22):
He also says many will come in my name and cast
out demons and say that weprophesy in your name and I
still turn away.
Turn you away and say you neverknew me.

Speaker 1 (45:33):
I mean, that's just like yeah, that's, that's very,
very crazy to think about too,and so that's that's one thing
is like for how long can can Ido this whole like secular music
thing, you know, and um, yeah,no, I, I think I think about it
too, where it becomes a acontemplation of whether or not

(45:55):
I keep writing the music that Iwrite, you know yeah but at the
same time I've never felt likeuneasy about something, like,
yeah, I guess some songs havebeen a little more on the on
side and kind of more on theangry side of things, but it's
more on just expressingsomething you know, and I don't

(46:17):
think God would be like oh, youwrote a song about being so sad.
That's a sin in my eyes.
I don't think God willnecessarily say that.
A sin in my eyes.
I don't think God willnecessarily say that but, it's
like I think God would be morelike on the well.
Hey, I'm glad that you'retalking about this.
Let's start, you know, bringingin the light of everything you
know, which I think we're we'regoing to get to.

(46:39):
But anyway, it's just so crazyto just think about um with all
of these artists and it's like,well, what, what can, what can
we do, um, to try and spread agood word?
With all of this going on wherethe church and the world is
combining, you know like what?
What is something that weshould be doing right now to

(47:02):
where, when that spiritualwarfare does happen, you, you
know what I mean.

Speaker 2 (47:08):
How do we talk to people about it?
Yeah Well, the thing is youcan't Right Because Well, I feel
like you could, in a way, Well,you can.
but it also does say in Timothythat.
I believe it's Timothy, itmight be Thessalonians, I don't
know.
The T's always mix me up Titusor Titus that's another one that

(47:29):
I forgot.
It might even be that one.
It could be that there's goingto be a time when people want
messages that just tickle theirears.
Yeah, I walk around and saylike hey, you really shouldn't
be doing that If you're going tobe a Christian.
Now, all of a sudden, I'm hey,thou shall not judge.
And uh, the the the first one.

(47:49):
Cause it makes me so mad whenpeople are like the, the one who
hasn't sinned be the first tocast a stone.
It's like okay.
First of all, that story incontext is they were going to
kill a lady because she wasliving in adultery and Jesus was
there and they were saying, hey, shouldn't we stone her?
And he's saying, hey, if you'regoing to stone her.

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Might as well stone, you guys too, yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
Yeah, and if you're going to stone her for sinning,
then any of you who haven'tsinned you do it.
So I'm not.
I'm not out here trying to killanybody.

Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:31):
I'm out here trying to actually do the opposite,
when I'm telling you not to livein sin, because you are living
in death when you are living insin.
So that's where I'm coming from.
So I just don't like whenpeople pull the whole stone
thing because it doesn't.
It's just taken out of contextand they don't understand what
was really happening at thatmoment.
The other thing is the thoushall not judge.
It's always like oh, you'rejust so judgmental.
It's like bro Jelly Roll hasall these songs that are just

(48:52):
not okay.
Yeah, they're not okay.

Speaker 1 (48:54):
I can only imagine what the because it's obviously
like the mega church that tendsto be more easy with these kinds
of things, Because it's justbecause it brings in the money.
I'm sorry to say, but I mean,it's the truth, yeah it's the
truth.

Speaker 2 (49:06):
Yeah, it is the truth , and so it's like unfortunate
truth, yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:09):
And it's like I wonder how they interpret it.
Interpret that, you know, likeI have.
I have a feeling that someplaces, like, would be like hey,
how about this?
You know, like, and they tryand make it look the artists and
trying to help them overcomeand, you know, lead them to

(49:31):
Christ, but that's like theopposite of what's happening.

Speaker 2 (49:32):
you know, yeah, I just that's, that's just like
not the way that you should bedoing it, because if Jelly World
wants to become a worshipleader and not saying he can't,
that's what I want people toknow Like it's not impossible
for him.
He is not beyond redemption.
He needs to disappear for awhile.
Go study the scriptures I meanlike heavily study and really

(49:53):
get to know the bible yeah andthen come on.
I think every worship leadershould be studying theology so
you actually know what you'retalking about, which the
majority of them don't.
Why are we having highschoolers lead worship?
But that's a topic for adifferent day.
I think that because there isalways the argument like we want

(50:16):
to bring people from the world.
It's like, yeah, but whenyou're having these secular
artists on, first of all, thepeople from the world are going
to go find that music and belike, oh, this is okay to listen
to and this is okay to dobecause he's up there singing
about Jesus, but he's also doingthis, so this is okay now and,
like I said before, you'reoffering them nothing new.
Jesus is supposed to besomething apart from the world.

(50:37):
It's not supposed to look likethe world.
You're not supposed to look atJesus from the outside of the
world and be like, yeah, I don'twant to change.
You're supposed to look at itand be like man, I want to be
like him, and you're not gettingthat when we're combining the
world with the church.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
Yeah, no, that's that's actually really really
good to to put out there.
I actually like the how you're,how you're bringing that, the
fact that it's like yeah, it's.
So I think I think it is a badidea to to put these two things
together, cause, like you said,when you find something and then
it's like it's joining up withthis bad thing, you're going to
look at it and then, yeah,interpret it into like hey, this

(51:17):
is okay.
You know, it's like it's okayto eat a rotten fruit that's
already like found within thisclean fruit and like it's, it's,
it's all right.
Right, I'm not going to getsick, I'm not going to get
affected by it.

Speaker 2 (51:29):
It's kind of the same .
This is this, this.
Yeah, that's what we were doing.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
Yeah, and so it's.
Man, I just it just breaks myheart to just know that these
types of things are happening it, which is why I think one of
the biggest things was like Idon't ever want to do the whole
record label thing.
I not, I'm not saying it wouldhappen.
You know metal isn't foreveryone, so it's not the most

(51:53):
famous thing.
But you know, I wouldn't wantto get into the point where it's
like, hey, let's bring thisartist on Cause it's going to
bring us money, you know.
And I'm like, I'm like no, Iwould.
I would be just like no, Idon't think it's a good idea.
That's not what we're about,and this artist doesn't speak
upon the same type of thingsthat we do you know, yeah,

(52:17):
that's that's.

Speaker 2 (52:18):
Another thing that I've been thinking about is like
I don't know if I want to berich yeah like to be honest.
It's like again, the bible putsemphasis on like you should be
content with with what you havewith what you have like.
Like I said before, I have foodand clothing.
What else do I need?
I mean, somebody in the biblewrote that yeah and so I think

(52:38):
that, yeah, I would be carefulwith record labels, like if you,
if someone's like you, wantthis label, because then you're,
you're pretty much owned bythem.
Yeah, and that's why part of mewants to just do this podcast
as a hobby, where I work fulltime still doing the welding and
then doing this on the side,Because if I start taking
sponsors, then it's like I haveto abide.

(53:02):
What if I say something thatthey don't agree with?

Speaker 1 (53:04):
What if I say something that they don't agree
with.
Yeah, did you get sponsored byMilwaukee?
Milwaukee has welding tools.
Imagine that snap diggity.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
Yeah, but I don't know if they'd want to Dude you
gotta post more welding videos,dude.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
But no, yeah, it's just yeah, it's one of those
things that I, going back to itnow, it's like my biggest thing
is just to make sure to alwaysbe careful on how you're
interpreting or what you'rewanting to do with your music.
You know what I mean.
Like, for example, like we havea couple good friends out there
that write music and it's itcan be on the secular side of

(53:41):
everything, but at the same timeit's like, um, sorry, I like
brain farted for a second.
At the same time, it's like,sorry, I like brain farted for a
second.
At the same time, it's likethey seem to at least at least
the people that I'm thinkingabout they seem to at least know
how to correlate those twothings together.
You know, obviously, our goodfriend Eli I'm just going to
bring him up.

(54:02):
His music isn't always on the onthe Christian side of things,
but his songs are more or lesslike they're not threatening
whatsoever spiritually.
I'm just going to point thatout right now.
Um, he writes cutesy little pop, you know stuff, and it's more
about like either his wife orjust kind of like oh, hey, I'm
I'm sad in this moment, but I'mgoing to try and be better kind

(54:24):
of thing in this moment, but I'mgoing to try and be better kind
of thing, Um, but I, as Italked to him, he's more always
like oh, you know, like I, Ilove God and I'll always follow
God.
And you know, we try and dothis stuff with in in worship
music too, and every now andagain he weighs, he writes a
worship song too, and I think hedoes his best to kind of like
put those two things togetherand to always protect his

(54:45):
spiritual life within all ofthis music.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
And so and but my question would be is is he
putting these worship songs onthe same artist profile as his
other one?

Speaker 1 (54:58):
I don't think he's really put them out yet, though
that's my thing.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
And was?
Is he planning on doing themwith the same artist name, or is
he going to have a differentone?

Speaker 1 (55:08):
I think he would just plan to do it with the same
artist name.
Okay, yeah, as we've talkedabout it.
I don't know too much aboutwhat his plan is for that, but I
mean, I know he's played themlike a few times, like when he's
leading worship at church andstuff like that.
Like he's written like actualsongs and played them, which I
think is really really coolsongs and played them, which I

(55:30):
think is really really cool.
Um, but yeah, I, I can just saythat that's um one way to look
at it as well, with I, I, I liketalking to other people and how
they plan to do things.
You know, um, cause it's sohard to to just think about it
where it's like every artistperson that I know isn't always
writing a Christian song, eventhough they go to a church, they

(55:51):
serve at a church or work at achurch, even, you know, and so
and I.
I just want to point it outthere that I don't think it's a
bad thing.
I think it's just how, how areyou going to let that affect you
?
You know what I mean.
Yeah, so, going back to you andyour band being, you know,

(56:11):
secular as it is and it's stillfun, you know, like, I think,
all looked out as a very, veryfun band.
They are great, um, and themusic writing has been
phenomenal, um, I think it'sjust the fact that, like, how do
you let that affect you andyour heart?
You know what I mean when Iknow John writes a lot about, I

(56:33):
think, like breakups or whatever.
Sometimes I feel like it'sabout breakups.
I could be wrong.

Speaker 2 (56:38):
Yeah, it seems like a lot of his songs are.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Yeah, but like, how do you let his words affect you?
You know, because, as I, as Ithink, I think about it.
It's like you're just theinstrument, you're just part of
it, you write your parts yeahand I don't know if you write
any lyrics or anything like thatno, no lyrics yeah, but I think
it's just unlike how do you letthat?

(57:03):
you know, how do you deal withit?
Because I'm like you're justmore listening to a song and
being like I'm just writing thebass part.
You know how is my bass gonnafit into this song?

Speaker 2 (57:12):
not necessarily yeah, but even though I'm not really
listening to the lyrics and nota part of the song writing, I'm
still affiliated with and that'swhere it affects me right.
And even now, if I'm beinghonest, some of the lyrics are
getting a little bitquestionable.

Speaker 1 (57:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Yes, and that's one thing that is stopping me from
wanting to be a part of itanymore is when we start singing
about certain topics and sayingcertain things.
It's like I don't know if I Idon't know if I can be a part of
this, and it's like the showslike I don't want to.

(57:51):
I don't want to go toMulligan's like if Jesus comes
back.
He ain't going to be lookingfor me there.

Speaker 1 (57:57):
He'll know you'll be there if you are.

Speaker 2 (58:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (58:00):
I know.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
It's more or less like a joke, but yeah, it just
seems like when I'm there, Idon't think people are looking
at me on stage thinking I betthis guy's a Christian.
I just I just don't, unless Iwore like an I am a Christian
t-shirt or something you need tostart doing it.

Speaker 1 (58:19):
Remember how your hat like sports team just how you
get another hat says Christian,oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (58:25):
Yeah, or something like that.
So how it affects me is I wouldsay that I don't know it's.
When it comes to secular music,I think it fits into the
category when Paul talks aboutlike not all things are unlawful
but not all things arebeneficial.

Speaker 1 (58:42):
Right.
So, that's good.

Speaker 2 (58:44):
I think that it's.
I think, ultimately, it's notnecessarily against the law, but
is it really benefiting me?
And I would say no, it's notpoint blank.
No, it's not benefiting me.
Yeah, no, it's not bringing mecloser to christ either.

Speaker 1 (58:58):
Yeah, and I think that goes just in general, like
to.
To point it out like this isall for anybody who's listening
like just take it as you will.
You know, whatever it does toyou, whatever it does to your
heart, you know, take it as youwant to, whether it's like oh,
do I, should I start like notlistening to secular music
anymore.

(59:18):
And I'm not saying like all ofthat, it's just more of like
well, if you feel it in yourheart where it's not good, for
you anymore and you notice thatit affects you heavily
emotionally and spiritually,then maybe it's time to cut ties
.

Speaker 2 (59:33):
Yeah, use discernment and be careful.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
I wouldn't be jamming out to Kendrick anymore if
you're feeling like it's notgood for you.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't jam out to that anyway,
but and we're at about an hour,so I think that's a good time.
Holy crap, an hour long episode.
I know I honestly I thoughtthis was going to be like 20, 30
minutes.

Speaker 1 (01:00:00):
Yeah, dude, I didn't so this is a surprise for me
this is a surprise for me.
Yeah, overall, I just want tosay it.
You know, if you don't listento metal, don't check it out,
but go ahead and check out somesignal.
Those guys.
We had a song come out, uh,this past friday, um, which I
was so excited because we weregoing to do it.
I thought we were going to dothe episode last friday and be
like hey, can I like quicklyplug this up real quick for you?

(01:00:20):
and yeah, but it wouldn't havecame out that friday ah well,
yeah, no, yeah, yeah, it cameout last friday.
Yeah, your song.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
But if we would have recorded last week.
The episode of ours wouldn'thave come out the same day as
your song oh yeah, oh yeah yeahbecause it takes me a little
while to edit yeah, you do, uh,um, what do you call them?

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
a nice little little um, I don't know what it is it
cuts back?

Speaker 2 (01:00:47):
yeah, like when you're talking it shows you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:49):
And then yeah, because I think I was watching
your episode that you put outtoday and then you were talking
about the date in february and Iwas like, oh, this is an old
one, and he just put it out, orsomething like that yeah yeah
it's because, yeah, I'll tellyou, I'll tell you afterward,
but I had fun yeah, yeah, well,thanks for coming on.

Speaker 2 (01:01:07):
Yeah, dude, but yeah Signal the Skies Escape.
Go check it out, and everybodyelse.
What do you think about CycledMusic?
It'd be cool to get youropinion.
If you're on YouTube, obviouslyyou can comment.
If you're on Spotify, it hascomments, and if you're on the
other audio, we do have a textmessage in the link and it's
anonymous, so I won't get yournumber or anything.
But anyway, thanks forlistening to everybody and have

(01:01:30):
a blessed week later.