July 5, 2025 • 57 mins
"Has church ruined dating?" That's the provocative question at the heart of this raw, unfiltered conversation between three friends navigating the complex intersection of faith and romance.
The guys jump right into the tension between biblical ideals and real-life application in Christian relationships. They share how church teachings can create unrealistic expectations—men burdened with perfect leadership, women restricted to supporting roles—turning what should be natural connections into something that "feels like a job rather than a relationship." Their candid stories reveal the struggle many believers face when religious instruction doesn't prepare them for relationship realities.
Purity culture comes under particularly sharp examination. While saving sex for marriage remains a shared value among the hosts, they question whether the way this message is taught actually strengthens temptation rather than reducing it. "When you're restricted for your whole life pretty much, it gets to that point where then, all right, now I have a boyfriend or girlfriend, and you really just like it's almost you're falling into that temptation," one host observes. This leads to a fascinating discussion about whether churches equip young adults with practical strategies for maintaining boundaries or simply use fear tactics that ultimately backfire.
Perhaps most refreshing is their willingness to challenge the gender imbalance in how churches address physical temptation. Despite conventional wisdom suggesting men bear primary responsibility for maintaining boundaries, the hosts share experiences suggesting women in church settings often push physical boundaries just as frequently—yet face far less accountability.
Whether you're currently dating, considering a relationship, or simply interested in the evolving conversation around faith and romance, this episode offers valuable insights about navigating desire, expectations, and authentic connection in a Christian context. Subscribe now to join this ongoing conversation about finding healthy relationships while honoring faith commitments.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Super heavy topic today.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Just kidding, how heavy, like Rosie O'Donnell.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
No, we talked about it right what we were going to
talk about.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Or did you forget?
I didn't forget.
Did you forget?
No, I'm used to you saying thetitles of what we're doing here.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Yeah, so as far as I'm concerned, we were going to
discuss has.
I think the question was haschurch ruined dating?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Was that what it?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
was.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
So we're all on the same page and on the clarity of
everything on.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Both spectrums not a certain thing?
What?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
do you mean on both spectrums, both for a guy and
for a girl?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
kind of thing.
Oh right yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
We're not going to try to attack one side, why not?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
No, yeah, seriously.
Yeah, we're not gonna try toattack one side, why not?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
no, yeah, seriously we're, we, is that what?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
we're doing.
We're that, we're incels, bro.
Yeah, kidding, andy's married.
I'm not a self-proclaimed incel, I just am by nature.
And then, stephan, what wouldyou?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
uh, it's kind of like , uh, a gray area, because there
is somebody I'm talking to, butit's like we.
I don't know if it's likeofficial, official right now, so
, because we've only hung out afew times that's still exciting.
Wherever it goes is wherever itgoes she's my backpack on the
back of my motorcycle.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
So I'm glad to clarify um so it's not an actual
girl, it's actually just a backit's a big guy named Tyrone.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
We're going to move on, All right so let's start
with a short answer.
Do you guys think that churchhas ruined dating, and why and
why not?
Who wants to go first?
Andy, you got pointed to.
Oh, okay, you want to go first.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I would say yes, it has.
It has ruined it, like shortand sweet to the point.
Um, I guess the things that canback it up is like I mean, I've
had experiences before I gotmarried where it's just like
there was a certain amount ofexpectations, there were certain
things that were not workingout for either person myself or
or them, um, and there's just, Idon't know, it just felt like.
(02:05):
There was just it didn't feellike a relationship, it felt
sometimes like a job.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
What do you mean expectations?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Well, it's like I mean, for starters, like a guy
is taught, like in a biblicalstandpoint, like the woman is
supposed to serve the guy and doall of these things, or like,
for example, like the guy shouldlead and all of this stuff,
which I think, yes, the guyshould leave, but like, um,
there's a higher set ofexpectation that was put upon
that, like the guy should alwaysbe on top of everything, and
(02:33):
then there's no nuance.
Yeah, pretty much basically Icouldn't think of the word.
And then on the other side, forwomen, it's like they're
expected to yeah, they'reexpected to be led to be, um,
kind of like what's, what's theword I'm thinking?
um the caretaker kind ofcaretaker and also to be um, a
support to yeah, to be a supportkind of thing, and I mean I can
(02:55):
agree with that too, but it'slike there's things that have
been taught where it's like it,just like I said, it feels like
more like a job rather than arelationship spectrum sometimes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it alsois like I feel it feels like
more like a job rather than arelationship spectrum sometimes.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, yeah yeah, and it also is like I feel like,
because I'm not married so Ireally can only speak from the
outside, I feel like it shouldbe more natural, like if, if a
guy in the relationship has tosay I'm the leader of this
relationship, it's like he's notyeah right, so it's like it
(03:27):
needs to be taught how to likeit's got to.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
It's got to work 50, 50 like you're a team.
It's got to be a team effort.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
But if the guy because if the guy is going to
lead in the relationship like ithas to, he has to like I'm
trying to think of the word, Ican't, I can't think of what the
word is he has to portray thatnaturally without saying that
he's like, coming off as likethis, I don't know like macho
man who thinks that he's like ifhe's got to prove a point, I
guess right if he has to proveanything to anybody, then it's
(03:56):
like you're not really a leaderversus like, because you all
know the people who like walkinto a room and it's like their
presence there, it's like youjust know they're a leader right
, yeah yeah, versus like the guywho has to walk in and be like
all right, I'm in charge hereI'm in charge.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
You're not like that kind of thing yeah exactly
Speaker 3 (04:14):
but, no, yeah, it definitely.
Yeah, there's.
There's so many things that Imean we can, as we talk, as we
talk about it, but there's justso many things that I feel like
have caused like dating to be somuch harder.
And yeah, I don't know, I thinkin in a way, as we, as we go
along with it.
I believe that there's justsome things that we can learn
(04:38):
out of all of this, andespecially with people who are
just now getting intorelationships or getting out of
relationships.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I would say it definitely has affected
relationships with the churchcommunity From my standpoint of
things, at least on how it'sbeen portrayed by me and I'm
just going to bring up thissubject, since it's kind of like
the elephant in the room too,of how a relationship goes is
you know, typically when itcomes to saving yourself for
(05:11):
marriage, like women are taughtlike you got to definitely like
just wait for the right man.
He's got to be with God, youknow same level as you and
you're both trying to help eachother grow in that aspect in the
church community.
And I mean even guys are taughtthe same thing too.
(05:31):
But I don't think it's as strictor strictly like talked about
more, because with women I thinkthey're more of like a sacred
kind of virginity at that point,when it comes to like marriage
and you know, having a familyand all that other stuff versus
(05:52):
guys like, and I mean you cankind of go like with just dating
in general at that point is, ifyou have a guy that's sleeping
around with a lot of women likehe's really not going to get
frowned upon, but if you've gota girl that's sleeping around
with a bunch of guys, then she'sjudged upon and so with how
strict the church is with savingyourself for marriage, I think
(06:13):
in a way and again at least, howit came off for me with my last
real relationship I had wasthat it's restriction.
And so then, when you'rerestricted for your whole life
pretty much, um, it gets to thatpoint where then, all right,
now I have a boyfriend or youknow, now I have a girlfriend,
(06:36):
and you really just like it'salmost you're falling into that
temptation.
It's a lot harder to harder toum, I can't think of the word
for it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I don't know why I can't think none of us can think
of words today, but like it'sbecause this heat's got us tired
probably it's very hot andhumid in the midwest, so give us
a break yeah, I think it's likewhat, 87 degrees out, right,
but it's been almost 100 thepast week, that's true which
I've enjoyed, but I know youguys don't like the humidity is
the worst part.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
The heat I can tolerate, even if that was at
100 degrees.
I'm like, okay, it's really hotout, but it's like at least
it's not humid.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
We're like that's a thick.
That's a classic midwesternsaying is the?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
it's not the heat, it's the humidity, it is it's
the same thing with like man, Ican't wait till like this heat
goes away and then it snows.
And like, oh man, I can't waituntil this heat goes away and
then it snows.
And I'm like, oh man, I can'twait until the snow goes away.
But going back is like.
(07:37):
So, after you've been in thatrestricted mindset that the
church has portrayed on savingyourself for marriage, it gets
to that point then where,because you've held back for so
long, the temptation is strongerand stronger and you have less
willpower to hold back, whichthen so then, what's the right
way to go about it?
because we should be aiming tosave ourselves for marriage I
mean without getting too like ininto it, I guess you could say.
(08:00):
But getting into it is, thereare things you can do that like
won't push that boundary, Iwould say, but like obviously
not.
You know, sleeping in the samebed doing like the sims for
woohoo and everything like youknow not doing that, but like
(08:20):
even too, like there are things.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So you're saying like , yeah, you can make, can make
out, but it's crossing, it'scrossing the danger zone.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You would both have to know like, okay, this is the
limit, and if either one of usstarts getting that temptation,
like, immediately cut it off.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Which isn't always easy.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It is not always easy , Believe me.
I've been there a few times andit's been rough.
But I will again, as just anexample, with my previous last
real relationship that I had isI was with this girl for over a
year and she lived in arestricted Christian household,
you know, but she helped out thechurch that we were at and, you
(09:03):
know, she knew her morals andvalues and I knew my morals and
values and we helped each othergrow.
We were going to church moreand talking about things a lot
more.
Communication was really good,including about that subject
about saving yourself towardsmarriage.
At that point, and we hadmoments where, yeah, we were,
you know, making out and stuffand things were getting a little
(09:24):
heated.
But we both, even though wereally wanted to go further,
because at that point I hadalready put a ring on it and we
were just waiting to get married.
So where's the harm?
So where's the harm at thatpoint?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
But we both had that where we were like, okay, no,
we're doing this the right waybecause this is how we were
taught.
And it was hard.
That temptation was rightbecause the person's right in
front of you at that point andthey want you just like you want
them, that God's there to helpyou walk through this and he
(10:06):
knows that person is in yourlife for the right reason and
they're there to help you.
Then that temptation almostmeans nothing.
At that point you can move onand go forward with it.
But again, with how strict thechurches are being with that,
and even in scripture it saysthat when you go outside of of
church, that's pretty much likeGod saying, like all right, I
(10:27):
taught you what you're supposedto do now are you going to
follow that and represent me, orare you going to give into
temptation and sin at that point?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
yeah, so then how?
How should churches go about it?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
because they should teach that we should wait till
marriage yeah, I think theyshouldn't be as maybe
contradicting as this sounds andyou know, because again in
scripture you say save yourselftill marriage.
I think they should not be likedirectly attacking that, like
frequently after frequent youknow preaches and stuff where
(11:03):
you know, then you know, youknow cause they have women's
Bible groups, just like theyhave men's Bible groups, and I'm
sure they talk about obviouslylike different things here and
there, but like I feel like in anormal sermon where everybody's
together, you know male, female, you know whoever they all are
in that group, so they all havean understanding.
(11:24):
But maybe I think part of it'stoo is where if you do have the
men's Bible group and you havethe women's Bible group, they
could be really conflictingagainst that whole touchy
subject too, because there mightbe a girl in there that's a
really good representative ofthe church in the women's Bible
group and she's slamming thehammer down on that whole save
(11:47):
yourself till marriage and soyou get in that mindset that
like I got to save myself, butthen you also are human, so you
have all the chemicals andhormones and stuff, and then
there you go, if you're juststrict on that, and you build up
that tension at that point andthen you just it's going to give
in and it's going to end intotal like chaos at that point
(12:07):
yeah, I mean, people shouldobviously be taught to flee from
sexual sin, because that's whatthe bible says, but they, I
think that in like don'tinterrupt me, don't interrupt,
this is my podcast shut up
Speaker 1 (12:21):
shut up uh, like men's groups.
Yeah, they should be teachingmen that like for one it's.
It's wrong to fall into that,because it is, but how do you
stay away from it and then teachthem how like to really follow
their purpose and their passion?
Because I've noticed with mewhen I'm I don't want to say the
(12:45):
word busy, because I still findtimes to- rest, you're occupied
occupied when I'm, when I'mlike practicing or working out
or any of those things.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I have less of a desire to fall into that
temptation yeah, your mind is ina different place at that point
because you're so focused onwhat your task is that you're
doing yeah like for you, like ifit's playing bass or if it's
going on a walk.
Even at that point, yeah, yourmind is then able to be clear of
those thoughts and everything Ithink, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
So I think if more of that was taught, versus hey,
just don't do this, and this iswhy it's bad, or like, because
there is some science behind, ifyou sleep with more people,
you're gonna it's gonna beharder to be in a relationship
down the line, which is true,but instead of just focusing on
like why not to do it, theyshould focus on how not to do it
.
I don't know what they teach inwomen's groups, because I don't
(13:36):
know what I don't know.
Like.
I know women can have passionsand drive, but it's not as much
as men I know with my sister um.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
She was in a what I don't know, andy, what was funny
no, I just it's so funny thatyou bring up the idea of drive
because it's, it's, it's, it'ssomething that we I think we
don't pay attention to as much.
I I know you say that like menhave a higher drive than women
do, but you'd be surprised.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I wasn't talking about sex drive in that context.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I was talking about a drive for ambition.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
But we'll get to that because we definitely know.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, believe me, I think all three of us know.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, so what were you going to say?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, so anyway, what were you going to say?
Yeah, so my sister, she was ina women's Bible group for a few
years and she would just then goto the next one with whatever
church that she was going with,because she was dating different
guys and they all went tochurch.
That's one thing I will giveher is that she does find guys
that are strongly in to Christand that they're going to help
each other grow and they'regoing to help each other prosper
and get through the rough timesand all that.
(14:50):
I'll give her props for that.
But then in the women's Biblegroups I mean, it's not a whole
lot of info that I know, butlike enough to where she's
talked about it a little bit andshe says they did go over the
fact of save yourself ofmarriage almost several
occasions and it was like evenif the subject that they were
talking about like if it's likeum, like how to um feel the
(15:15):
embodiment of christ as a woman,kind of thing, and then it
would go into a totallydifferent like just not even two
seconds later, be like saveyourself for marriage, that is
the important thing.
And she was like, with thatparticular women's bible group
she was like this is just waytoo like there's no reason to
bring that up at that point,right?
(15:36):
So I feel like to a degree, itis partially the person
preaching that it's faultbecause of the way that they
present it or the way maybe theygot a different mindset.
Like you know, some people getso hurt in the past and they
feel so foolish that they didn'tsave themselves or something
happened, so they emphasize itfor other women to be like hey,
(15:58):
or even guys in that matter.
For some men's bible groups too, that can happen but like you
need to save yourself formarriage, because they're not
going to admit that maybe theymade the mistake on falling for
that.
But they are like just going tosay like it's important and
this will ruin your life if youdon't do it.
So then you get that fearmindset at that point and then
(16:24):
that is like to scare them intonot doing it.
You know that kind of thingwhich that can be.
That's a pretty bad tactic, asthis is like a fear tactic to
get them, to get that implantedin their head.
So and again, that can go forguys and women at that point.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, see, I agree, but I'm also torn on that
subject because, like I said,it's important that that gets
taught.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, but just don't consistently push it.
At that point I guess you couldsay it's funny.
It's funny for me when you saylike that.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
To that you feel like it's been a message that's been
like like consistently yeah,it's been like implanted in
people's heads consistently.
I think for me how I'veexperienced that sometimes it's
like I feel like in some sermons, when it comes to those topics
they beat around the bush aroundit.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
They don't give oh, instead of going straight to the
point, they don't give fullexplanation to everything like
yeah, they they're like, yeah,save yourself for marriage.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Or like, hey, this is wrong or this is the way to
that.
You should do it, um, but it'slike a lot of the time it's,
it's almost like it's stilltaboo in in the church world.
You know what I mean, and so Ithink that also is the one thing
that creates the fear, becauseit's like yeah, maybe we're
getting information, but we'rethere's still some things that
we're not right, like there'spieces of the puzzle that are
(17:45):
missing yeah, like, don't get mewrong, it's like I think I, as
I go about it now I know nowwhat I know.
But it took for me, it took theexperiences you know of what
I've gone through to figure thatout but again, though, look
where it's brought you today too.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Even at that point now you're married, and I mean I
, I haven't really met your wifeat this point, all that much
but yeah, I'm like I'm sureshe's great.
You know, you guys have helpedeach other grow, you guys work
as a team and so fareverything's going pretty good.
Because you've been married forhow long now?
like a year or two, two yearstwo years, yeah, so it was like
three that's like a really andthat's even a good thing too at
(18:24):
that point is if you, if you'relike man, it's been so short,
like that we've been married butit's like it's felt longer,
yeah, that's that to me seemslike a really good, healthy
relationship at that point.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Because if it feels longer than it's like your
connection at that point, likefrom all your experiences and
her experiences, yeah then thejourney that you guys were
brought together now is thismoment, yeah but that's just my
thing too is I feel like it'sjust not something that I like.
I just feel like I haven't beentold everything and I feel like
(18:56):
that's where.
So what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
not told everything.
Not told everything about what?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
well, not told I just I think if I can go back to
like some of the sermons we wentthrough at at, like access,
when we used to go to accessyeah, like I understand when we
had, do you remember when we didlike the questionnaire thing,
like they?
they put up questions in thescreen and whatnot like yeah, of
all the people that could ask,but it's like when it came to
(19:21):
certain types of topics, withineverything, they were like we
don't know how to answer thatfor you, or like we can't answer
that for you, or okay, you knowwhat I mean, because it's like
some people actually want toknow a certain amount of, but
it's like a touchy subject maybeto some people, and so they're
like we don't know how to reallygo about that.
Yeah, it's touchy or it's justlike we don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It's like that gray area at that point.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, but what would be considered a gray area
question?
I mean you don't have to givean exact one, but what's
something that would be a grayarea question that somebody
might not know how to answer?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Well, well, for, for starters, I think, one of the
questions that, if I remember,that was very difficult to
answer and it was with one ofthe past, like the older, like
the actual one of the pastors,and it was like regarding like,
if I do this, but I want to getthis far, but is it like a bad
thing if I, like, just touch theline, basically, or not even
(20:21):
cross the line?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
but you go near it there.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So I feel like if I'm a pastor, I'm going to say no,
it's not okay.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, if.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I'm a pastor.
I'm never going to advocate formaking.
I guess that's a bad exampletoo.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
But like I don't want to ask, I don't even remember
the question fully.
But I don't even remember thequestion fully but I want to ask
the question that was askedbecause I remember it was like
why would you ask that?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Or like yeah, like it's a pretty obvious answer and
then the pastor can't answer it.
And then so now it's like soit's really like there's no
middle ground.
It's either like oh, we don'tknow how to talk about this, or
we're just going to shove itdown until it just becomes too
(21:02):
much.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I still think it's crazy because, as we're taught
these things and I mean it'sgreat because we count it as a
testimony in the end, right,these are victories or these are
things that like, hey, this ishow we learned it and we want to
teach it.
But it's like, even thoughwe're taught through Scripture
and through all of our sermonsand all that stuff with, with,
with, with services at church,people still fail and people are
(21:25):
still like well, I don't wantto date because of this, or I am
having trouble dating anybodybecause they're not doing this
for me, kind of thing.
You know what I mean yeah, whatdo you mean?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
um, they're not doing this for me, so maybe, maybe
it's just even finding somebodyat that point.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Like okay.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I've been abstinent this whole time, kind of thing,
because that's what I've beentaught.
And then it's like, okay, well,I'm like 55 and I still haven't
found somebody, because Godsays he's going to bring you
something like that yeah.
Like, I've done all this andyou're not giving me anything.
So why am I going to listen tothe sermon if I'm not going to
get anything out of it, eventhough I'm doing the right thing
?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
well, and that's the thing about america is god does
not promise people marriage no,right you're not born into
christianity as a man worthy ofbeing a partner you kind of have
to build that right in one wayor another, but you're like.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
It's kind of too like you get.
Where I'm coming from, though,is it's like you're taught all
these teachings from God andthen, in a way, some people get
a mindset of like, well, if I dothis, then I'm definitely going
to get it.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Like don't watch pornography or you're not going
to get a woman.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
But then it's like you go like, even though all the
people that watch it are theones that are getting married
the ones that are gettingmarried right literally, or
they're just famous stars atthat point, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But what I was gonna say corn stars.
But we're gonna move on, yeah,yeah, but I'm just saying like
no, that, but that's no, we'renot censoring you can say porn.
Okay, he already said it okay,so no, I didn't even know.
He said, I don't know when.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, we're not doing the stupid corn thing.
Okay, I, I can't.
That's fair.
We are illegitimate, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
But like no, so those people there, they'll sit there
Like what he was saying is youknow you can commit all these
sins and then like, next thing,you know, maybe focus on
themselves.
He's the one struggling andhe's the one struggling.
(23:22):
But it does also say that justbecause you follow God doesn't
mean that it's going to be acakewalk.
At that point You're going tobe tested and tempted with
trials of sin at that point.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
The path is long and narrow, as it says.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So yeah, I mean like even, too, if, like let's say,
for example, you're followingthe path of Christ, at that
point you know you're doingeverything, you're staying
abstinent, you're not fallinginto the temptation of
pornography, you're doingeverything you can, yeah.
And then you get this could bethe first trial.
You get a girl that randomlyjust, or a guy that just pops
(23:55):
into your life and you're like,holy crap, like this is amazing,
like you know, and then they'relike they're following Christ
and they're doing their best,and then all of a sudden, god
takes that away from you.
And then it's like, so he cantake things away to teach you a
(24:15):
lesson about things.
So, whether in that firstrelationship that you ever got
yourself into, let's say, youguys didn't know how to
communicate, or you guys didn'tknow how to remain abstinent or
something like that, and youmoved way too quick into the
relationship, he'll take thataway from you and then he'll
give you time to focus on thatagain, like a reset.
(24:37):
And then, when the time isright and he knows because he
knows when everything and howeverything is going to happen
then he'll bring you anotherperson in your life.
And even, too, it doesn't evenhave to be a relationship like
marriage or whatnot.
It could be even a friendship.
At that point too, you could behorrible with friends, and then
you lose a friend and then anew one comes along and then,
(24:59):
well, I messed up on this withme internally, but god gave me
this new person, so I'm notgonna mess that up again.
But again, as long if you knowstuff keeps happening, god's
gonna keep testing you.
At that point he's gonna keepputting you through trials.
And then again, once he knows,and you finally get it,
(25:20):
regardless of how old you arebecause again, you could be in
your 30s, 50s, whatever and thatright person comes into your
life or the things that you wereasking for come into your life,
then it'll prosper you at theend.
So, even with you, with yourmarriages, you've been through
what a couple of relationshipsand stuff, oh boy.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
And then now here, you are, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So God's brought you your wife and you guys are
prospering.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
So I would say that's a win because you had to go
through trials after trials,after trials.
Same with you.
I mean me and you are bothsingle right now, but we've been
put to our trials of women Justsaying yeah, heard it here
first.
But, yeah, we've been putthrough our trials and now I
(26:10):
feel right now, at least in thispredicament with me that I'm
being put through a trial withthis particular woman and so am
I going to make the samemistakes that I may have like
nobody's perfect.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
You are but you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Like kidding no let's say in a safer way, as like you
could.
Yeah, you will, right, but how?
What are you?
What are you going to learn andhow are you going to make it
better?
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
yeah, yeah.
So whether like, because againnobody's perfect at that point
so and you got to work it, youknow, again, again, till you get
it right yeah, side note, sincewe were talking about like if
somebody became a porn staruh-huh say she turns her life
around and becomes a christian.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Uh-huh, is it wrong for the christian guy to turn
her down for that reason?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
No, Well, yeah, no.
In a way, I would say that one.
It's not a gray area.
It literally is like a yes andno.
Yeah, he has the right, becauseat that point the temptation
could come back in her life.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Or it springs temptation to him.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Or it springs temptation to him because he
could have gone through the samething too.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
But also, even though she's been made new in Christ,
he still doesn't need to be withsomebody who lived that life.
Right, like there isconsequences to your sin, and
that is one problem.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I think that the church shies away, especially
when it comes to like sexual sin, like guy or girl, if you sleep
with 30 people right it's goingto be pretty hard to find a
relationship because not a lotof people are going to want to
be with somebody who was withthat many people Right there's
but there's also people too thatlike, even if a girl is virgin
(27:54):
or a guy is virgin, they're notgoing to want to be with them
because they have no experienceeither so that's the other part
too.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Again, there's the.
It is weird that I talk aboutwith expectations.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, because in that aspect of life too.
It's like that's not reallybecause we're all born virgins,
you know we all did not likehave sex, obviously right away
at that point, like everybodystarts off virgins.
So why are you going to make adecision about maybe this person
could be perfect for you andthey're virgin.
And then, but you have the hotsfor like Bambino, who's been
(28:28):
with like 50 women and you know,but it's because he's
experienced at that point.
And then same thing with a guyyou know you could have it,
where you get this like girlthat God could put right in
front of you, that's virgin andshe's, you know, perfect,
everything that you could askfor.
But then you get, you know,jennifer lopez over here, who's
(28:48):
been with like 60 guys orsomething, and he, you know, and
then you're, but you're gonnago for her because you know
she's experienced at that point.
So then there's another trialright there.
So are you going to go forlooks?
Are you going to go for thefact that at least the person
has enough morals at that pointand followed Christ to, you know
, save themselves at that?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
point.
Yeah, I feel like the wholelike chasing the experienced
people is like a very red pillthing, Right Like.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I mean I'll say this through the relationship, the
relationships that I've beenthrough, Like, yes, it does help
if they've had experienceobviously not to like you know
30 people, but like if they'veat least had a little bit of
experience, yes, it helps.
But again, I dated and wasengaged to a virgin woman and I
(29:35):
didn't care at that pointbecause I respected her values.
She was following the stepsthrough christ at that point and
she and I had enough respectfor each other and, yeah, I was
experienced.
I had one other relationshipand I I get messed up.
I was in a friends with benefitsfor like four years whoa, yeah,
that's gross it was, and it wasthe first and only time I'll do
(29:56):
it, because it was absolutelydisgusting.
Um, but again, we're all youngand we all make mistakes.
At that point, Well, you dobelieve it or not.
At that time that had experiencethat I was interested in.
But then, as soon as my nowex-fiance was in the picture and
(30:27):
I first met her and I, she toldme that she was virgin and she
I was basically her firstboyfriend.
She only went on one date andit went like the same day it
ended because the guy was onlyafter one thing and he didn't
care that she was virgin andthat she had tattoos and
whatever else.
But I but you get that personthat sees past that and then,
you're, you're good to go.
You know it's like cause.
Then that again is anothertrial that God's putting you
(30:50):
through is like okay, they'renot experienced this is all new
to them.
Can you help them prosper Likethey can help you prosper at
that?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
point.
Yeah, because when you'remarried you learn what each
other likes.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
So experience really doesn't matter, because if you
just jump straight into sex in arelationship, it's not a
relationship.
And you're going to overlookred flags Exactly exactly,
exactly Because, yeah, they gota smoking bot, but they could
literally be a serial killer,like you know, jeffrey donovan,
you always go for, like theextremes, no, but you know what
(31:25):
I'm just saying, that smokinghot buds, but it's true, lambos
or she could be a serial killer.
Well, because think about itthough, because we've already
established that you know, like,how women look through guys.
Like they can still look at aguy for looks, but they look at
them through a different.
They have more of the emotionalside of things, where guys are
(31:46):
more visual.
So, yeah, when I say hot bods,it's like, okay, the guy is
looking at hot bods, or even awoman can look at hot bods, but
then you get also the guy thatlooks at the emotional side of
things.
Look at hot bods, but then youget also the guy that looks at
the emotional side of things.
Maybe he's less attracted towhat you look like and you look
like the pillsbury dough boy,but you're perfect in every way,
kind of thing oh, that'sanother thing that I want.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
That's a great segue to the next yeah section is the
size matter not in that way tomorgan and morgan, the law firm
it does they're the biggest lawfirm um, but that's not what I
was going with.
Yeah, we're talking about uh,what was it?
(32:28):
Oh, physical attraction.
Yeah, I think that the churchdumbs that down.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I think it's more important than they say it is,
but I don't think it'severything yeah, because they
don't want to, because now,especially with today, like
everybody's sensitive, becauseyou don't want to sit there and
be like, yeah, you know, youover there, the 600 pound life
t-shirt on that weighs 600pounds.
Like again, you may or may not.
You may or may not findsomebody because you're big.
(32:54):
But this guy over here,chiseled chin and everything
looking like the crimson chin,he's perfect and he will find a
christian woman.
I've never heard any pastor saythat but you know what I?
mean it's like they don't reallygo about they.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
They beat around the bush yeah, nobody's gonna say
that like that, because first ofall that might be a little rude
, but right to a lot to lie topeople yeah and say that it
shouldn't matter what don'tmatter is you're doing them a
disservice right, because itreally, to a degree it does
matter yes, well, yeah, becauseif, if I'm talking to a girl and
(33:29):
she's awesome and she's got agreat personality, but she
doesn't, she's not attractive.
She's going to be my friend,right, only my friend right.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
And then same thing with girls right now too is like
you know you could have like aguy that makes you laugh and
like you know they're there foryou and everything.
But if they're really big orthey just don't take care of
themselves kind of thing Iwasn't extreme, I said but if
they're really big or they justthey look gross, like you know,
(33:59):
then they're gonna be in thefriend zone indefinitely.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
At that point, yeah yeah, yeah, so it's, it's dumbed
down, but it's hard because itseems like people always want to
go to extremes.
So then now they're saying,well, looks, don't matter at all
.
But it's like you have to findthat in between of, yeah, they
matter, but they shouldn't beeverything.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Right, it shouldn't be like your main.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, because somebody can be really good
looking, but again have somemajor red flags Right, like
maybe she's a serial killer orsomething, maybe she will be, I
don't know that really is how itpretty much is summed up too,
and I don't think again, again.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
That is a touched up subject at churches.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
They just kind of beat around the bush with it and
it's not realistic and it makespeople feel bad, because then
you're like well, I don't reallylike her.
And it's like well, why don'tyou like her?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
and it's like well, she's got a dimple on her cheek
or something like that, and it'slike okay, everybody else does
so, do you so?
Why, are you judging?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I don't have dimples, I don't either.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I'll say this too from personal experiences.
I used to be the guy in myearly 20s that I would basically
like.
The kind of girl that I wouldwant and I'd only look for was
blonde, had like a really goodtoned body, whatnot.
So basic, right, I know, andnot a serial killer either.
(35:20):
Um, but that's what I would belooking for, because it was like
I don't care if they're a redflag or not, and you know I'm
inexperienced at that point.
I just want a good lookingblonde woman and a little bit
shorter than me and everythingelse.
And then, as the years went by,what and again with the
experience, the crunch was sosatisfying at the mic, um, when
(35:46):
it came down to that.
So my first girlfriend, forexample really good looking girl
, she had pretty much everythingI wanted, but she had dyed hair
.
But I at that point Didn't carebecause she was a good looking
girl at that point and after thecrap that I I will admit I put
myself through with her and I amnot the only one at fault and
(36:09):
she is not the only one at faultfor why the relationship died
at that point.
But I learned after her maybe Ishouldn't have that kind of
expectation, because that taughtme if you get a good looking
girl like that and you justfocus on the looks like a good
figure, eight and everything,you're going to probably end up
hurting her or hurting yourselfat the end of the day or both or
(36:32):
both, yeah.
And then that's when, again, myex-fiance came around at the
time and yeah, she wasn't thebest-looking girl, wow.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Let me back that up.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
It's not as harsh as what I'm trying to make it.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Say no filter for anything you're saying To me
though here's the thing A biggerpop filter for your mic.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Here's the thing.
Let me backtrack on that,because that did sound really
bad.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
So to there's still some hurt feelings here.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
That's why no, no she's not gonna listen to this.
No but no I.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
I've had no contact with her for such a long time,
but she so to me.
At first, when I looked at thecomparison, I guess, between my
first girlfriend and her, I'mlike she is not as like anything
remotely comparable to like asgood as the first one.
And that's still.
(37:31):
I know.
I know it's not, I'm trying tosay because I'm really bad at
wording and I don't mean it inthe way that I'm saying just
skip this.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
No, we're not we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
They're no longer in my life, so and again, they're
not gonna I understand that, butno, but here let me again I
apologize.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I'm out of words.
I apologize to the audience athand.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I don't mean it as brutally as it may come off.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
You're about to be a hater, it's just I know I am
it's the only way that I do notbring this guy.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
It's the only way that I can word it in my brain
and have it translate out here.
But I can kind of back up somethings.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
So at this point it's the sugar coating, that's more.
I know it is ugly bro.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I mean not really.
But the thing is is this thoughso I looked at myself at that
point and I was a bigger guy,like I wasn't 300 pounds and
whatnot, but I was getting closeto that.
I was like maybe 280 orsomething, but I looked at it as
this, as I'm like.
So that's when I think God wasbringing me that teaching of
(38:36):
okay, so it shouldn't matterwhat the girl looks like Like
yeah, she doesn't have to be a10 out of 10 like the last one,
but she could be like an 8 outof 10 or a 9 out of 10, whatever
, but her morals are whatmatters at that point is what I
was trying to get to.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Just again, I'm very bad at wording because my brain
just kind of just spits outwhatever it's thinking yeah, you
picked the worst path.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I know you really did , I know To get there.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I know I did so mean I apologize to the audience.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
It's like trying to rock climb up Mount Everest
instead of going up the trail.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
That's what you did, I know, I know.
But to me in my eyes at thatpoint I knew that she was the
most beautiful girl.
In my eyes, that's whatmattered.
I didn't care about anythingelse.
You know, anybody could come inwith like crooked teeth,
whatever, you know, maybe theyhave a bald spot on their head,
something I don't know.
(39:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
But again, it's just that stefan worries about, by
the way, everyone.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, yeah yeah, but if they, honestly to me, have
that quality of they have theirmorals in line, they have a set
path, they're willing to help megrow like I'm willing to help
them grow, I would rather havethem in my life, you miss the
shots you don't take at thatpoint, the shots you don't take
(40:04):
at that point.
So if god's bringing me thisperson, yeah, they may not be
everything that my ideal manbrain thinks of, but she's there
for a reason at that point.
Right, and even with my lastgirlfriend that I had, she was
and again this one I actually amtrue on she was a bigger set
girl, but at that time again,she had it is, it is but, I'm
(40:25):
just saying she was a bigger setgirl.
But she also had her morals inline.
Me and her had been through thesame kind of experiences at
that point and we both had thatsame mindset of things and I at
that again I looked at myselfand was like who am I to judge?
(40:46):
If I'm still a bigger guy andshe's a bigger girl, why is it?
If she is coming again into mylife at that point?
Why am I going to turn thatdown?
Because she's bigger?
You know, I have no room tojudge because I'm a bigger guy
at that point would you haveroom to judge if you weren't a
bigger guy?
I mean, as long as the uh, thesim and roll twister thing, uh,
(41:08):
at the store, you know, couldpop properly, but you know, I
don't know where I was goingwith that, so I'm just gonna,
we're gonna move on, yeah, butyou get, where I'm saying is
like you can't judge others atthat point if you can't look at
yourself and be like what'swrong with me?
Because if you have that selfNext time, lead with that.
Yeah, and then end with that too.
Well, you could probably editit to be like right at the
(41:30):
disclaimer no, I'm leaving it atthat.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah, this whole testimony of yours it's all
there.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
But you guys understand where I'm going with
it.
You can't really just judgesomebody else if you can't look
at yourself in the mirror and belike, okay, well, I'm Mr
Perfect, and it's like, no,you're not.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Well, I am.
Oh, are you?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, I mean compared to me and you, he's the one
that's married.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
So I mean, that's true, that is true, I'm far from
perfect boys, but but yeah, asfar as, like, experiences go,
that's that's.
Yeah, yeah, I think overall.
I for me, I guess looks domatter, but yeah, they haven't
always been like the main thing,I never thought any girl I ever
(42:13):
dated was bad looking.
You know, as stefan might say,you know if they're, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
I didn't think any of them were serial killers they
come if they come off like anexploded can of cinnamon rolls.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Precisely.
I do think looks matter, but itshouldn't be the thing you lead
on.
For me, it's obviously the waythey portray themselves to be.
I dated one girl that was very,very disorganized.
For me, I'm a very organizedperson.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
You're like OCD kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
I wouldn't say OCD, but yes.
But I'm the kind of guy thatI'm married now and I still do
the laundry.
I do both our laundry I do mineand my wife's but this girl
leaving clothes everywhere.
I feel like that's most girls,if I'm honest with you this one
was by far the worst, becauseeveryone else I ever dated in my
(43:08):
life they were fine.
But like there's just clotheseverywhere and like you know how
, like the basic thing wherelike a girl would have like a
full body mirror, like attachedto the the door or something.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah to the door.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
well, this thing is like tipped over and like
leaning on the wall and doingall these other things and like
there's like paper plates on herdesk and all this stuff from
like food she ate.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Oh gosh yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
So it was for me.
That's very hard.
So I think for me it's likewhat's more important is
definitely like portrayal ofoneself.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
But yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
But again, going back to what Stefan says, who am I
to judge?
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I mean again, I'm a very clean person, I'm very
organized, but I shouldn't judge, and even, too, through those
experiences it's like then youget taught that, yeah, I should
not be judging them if I have myown flaws at that point, and
then you'll be led onto theright path eventually.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
Yeah, but no.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
I can't get over the things that you were saying
about your exes.
It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I'm just saying you know, you know where you belong
is the eastern orthodox church,the guys with no filter that's
where you need to start, but itmakes it so much better though,
but in a worse way, in apositive way at the same time.
It's just.
That's just how it comes.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, you're definitely gonna have haters and
lovers oh, nobody's in betweenwith you.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
This is why I'm single ladies.
Oh, they know.
Yeah, you're like, yeah, thisguy, all right Now we can talk
about drive the sex drive.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Because I think that in church specifically, it's
usually put on the guys who havethe high sex drive and there's
a lot of problems that come withthat type of rhetoric, because
because then you're the one thatmake like the females, like the
innocent one that's gonna, shehas the most control and she
(44:53):
doesn't have that much drive.
And then yeah, so if, if, ifboundaries are being broke,
whose fault fault?
Speaker 2 (45:00):
is it the man?
Speaker 1 (45:01):
It's always the guy's fault and then they can just
decide to end the relationshipbecause they're like, oh, he
keeps breaking the boundariesand they side with the women and
they never get told like, hey,you might be a problem in this
scenario, are you sure you'renot insinuating, are you sure
you're not doing anything thatcauses this Right?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
yeah, because everybody knows it takes two to
tango at that point.
So women are again, men areattracted to that physical
attraction.
And you know, if your girllooks at you in a weird way with
her dilated eyes and she's likegazing in dude you, she's
looking at you with them eyesand you're just like I can't
help it.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
No, they're definitely dilated, you're
correct.
It's just, I would never havethought about that.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
I also.
Yeah, you give us the fulldetails.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
It's just like so quippy that I can't.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Like comprehend, like how quick it was.
Yeah, it's just like.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
I don't know how your brain works faster than mine
does.
Brain works faster than minedoes.
Um, but then also with that,it's basically saying that women
don't want it so when you getmarried, you're basically his
sex slave.
Whenever he wants it, you haveto give it to him and it's just
like yeah women want it too.
Yeah, they just need to be heldmore accountable, I think,
because each relationship she'sgoing to get in, if she's never
(46:19):
told that boundaries being brokeare also her fault, then
nothing is ever she's going toget in.
If she's never told thatboundaries being broke are also
her fault then nothing is evergoing to change.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
She's going to go on her merrily way like I've done
nothing wrong in myrelationships.
That's why they ended.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, and it's going to be like I just keep finding
all these bad guys.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
They're all horny all the time and it's just like I
don't know what I'm doing.
Right, yeah, You're a woman.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
That's right.
Yeah, you're a woman, that'swhat she's doing.
That's definitely a big issue.
For, yeah, I think, for I willsay for the beginning of the
relationship with my wife, likewe've, we've, we all fall short.
So we've fallen short plenty oftimes and in the relationship
as we, as we were dating, um,and as we were going through our
marriage counseling it was.
It was crazy, because I feltlike I was always the one being
looked at when we're explainingthese things and it's like, well
(47:05):
, andy, what can, what can youdo to be better?
I'm like, so I'm, I'm feelinglike, well, I'm carrying both of
the weight, like it's not.
It sometimes it didn't feellike a two person, me kind of
thing, and so that made it very,very hard.
And, yeah, I can say that itmakes it so difficult that the
(47:25):
church decides to put it on oneside more than anything, and
then that is kind of somethingthat ends up ruining the
beginning of dating for a lot ofpeople.
That's why I'm saying, too,women have this expectation.
Well, if I date this guy, isthis going to be a problem?
Like are we going to havesituations where we just can't
handle ourselves?
Speaker 2 (47:45):
or right, like we can't be around each other for
too long, because then it'llbring that temptation in there.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah what about like the way they dress?
Speaker 2 (47:54):
uh, that can.
That can definitely play afactor, because if you get some
skim and I'm talking, talkingboth sides yeah men can dress
from the from the viewpoint of aman.
Yeah, there we go if you get agirl that comes in with a skimpy
dress, that her butt's hangingout and she's sitting there
wearing a crop top, where likeunder boob is showing, and she's
(48:15):
going into church and she's alllike I'm a.
I'm a great girl that believesin god some of them dress that
way they do yeah I'm surprisedtoo.
I've seen it, it's just andthat's the thing, though, is
like and then okay, but don't.
Then they're like don'tsexualize me and don't like give
into temptation.
But then it's like okay, thenwhy are you hanging out with
your butt, like from the bottomof your dress, then literally
(48:37):
protruding the fact of don'tgive into temptation and don't
sexualize me?
It's like don't be dressinglike that, then I get it that
guys need to have self-control.
I'm not saying that they can'tdress like that right but guys
do need to have self-control andwomen need to have self-control
about how objectifying thatthey're portraying themselves at
(48:58):
that point I.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
I think it's a both and situation.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, because guys can wear like a skin tight
t-shirt.
No, I'm saying like.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
I'm saying like yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
I'm just saying like, yes, guysneed to learn how to control
themselves and also controltheir eyes.
Like, yes, guys need to learnhow to control themselves and
also control their eyes.
But if you're a woman andyou're going to dress that way,
you are going to attract theguys who don't have self-control
(49:29):
and the creepy ones.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Because they're the ones that are looking for that
Right.
And then you can't get mad whenthey approach you, or you let
them in and stuff happens atthat point.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, because there's always going to be creeper guys
that are going to that want areattracted to only your body at
the church.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, oh yeah.
You think you just walk intochurch and they're just sitting
there and they're like, oh yeah,praise God.
And they're just not looking atthe girl next door and she's
sitting there wearing a crop topor whatever else, and she's
like, you know, the typicalthing, and then just like, yeah
no I'm a good christian girl,and then he's just gonna be like
praise god, like that's justhow it is.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yeah so I think it's like you can't, and they need to
have they need to have a womanteach women how to dress instead
of having like men, because italways comes off as like
controlling or whatever it'slike.
Have a woman who's brave enoughto tell them hey maybe when you
come to church, don't dresslike you just came back from the
club right like don't, what areyou doing?
Speaker 2 (50:28):
right like don't be like suit.
You don't have to be like suitand tie, but like right, just
wear something casual.
Yes, a little more modest, likethis is fine, like what we're
wearing, like you know, jerseyt-shirt stefan, please do not
show up to church with a Jersey.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
I can think of one guy at at at church.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Do you want me to show you what's underneath?
Speaker 3 (50:47):
No, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Anxiety.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
I can think of one guy at church.
I would really appreciate hisJersey, though.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
I already got complimented on it when I was at
the store getting the Arizona.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
Oh H no, got complimented on it when I was at
the store getting the arizonat's and stuff.
Oh no, well, there too,actually.
But at our old church, our goodfriends at res, I can't think
of.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
I mean but would you rather see like a jersey at
church or see something thatlike I?
Speaker 1 (51:10):
have daddy issues.
Oh, I know, yeah but you get.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Where I'm getting at, though, is like, yeah, we're
joking about the jersey, butlike, would you rather see a
jersey being worn praising godor something that says I have
mommy issues?
Speaker 1 (51:23):
okay, stephan, it's not like those are the only two
options no, I know, but like,hey, what do you?
What are you gonna wear tochurch?
Speaker 3 (51:30):
you have a jersey, or I have mommy issues, sure I
think we need to go back to thewhole monochromatic, like
everybody just needs to wearlike, like skirts that go down
to the ankles, and men tofull-on suit and ties yeah, but
then you get those guys withfoot fetishes.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
So then are you just telling, like women to like
cover up everything.
At that point I'm just becausethere are guys that do that, I'm
just saying ah, it's 100 fact.
There was a guy at walmart theother day that was sitting there
and there was a girl wearinglike hey dudes or something like
that, you know, and he'ssitting there like in the line.
I swear to God, he was sittingthere just eyeballing.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
And you know that he was just looking at her feet.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
He literally was looking at her feet, and she got
creeped out and so she had tomove.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
I suppose it is Walmart, right, I was going to
say it's.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Walmart.
Well, it's a petting zoo inthere every day.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
You find a new animal .
You know.
Okay, back to the topic at hand.
Yeah, women have sex drive too.
Yes, they do.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
And sometimes they, I feel like to a degree, I feel
like they can definitely controlit a lot better than a guy, I
would think.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
I don't know To a degree To a degree.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
In my oh, we're going to get a Caleb testimony.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
I'm not getting into, maybe not specific situations,
but in my experience with womenin the church they push the
boundaries either the same, ifnot more, than I would, and so I
don't know if they.
But also I don't want to hearabout how they have more
self-control.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
I would say, though, here's the thing it can tie back
to the way that they weretaught about saving themselves
towards marriage, because theyhave that implemented in their
head with either fear orwhatever, and they're like, well
, if I do this, but then againthat temptation is even stronger
at that point.
So then they see you andthey're like dang, and then they
(53:19):
just want to ask you out, orthey want to flirt, and then
push the boundaries, and thenthey could even, at that point,
be manipulating you and beinglike, oh well, it was his fault,
because he was just so much ofa horn dog it wasn't even funny
yeah, I mean, that's kind ofwhat has happened in the past
with me, where it's like theyblame me for that, and then it's
it's like but you're the onewho led me on at that point,
(53:40):
you're the one who was pushingthe buttons.
So really, it's not just me youhave to blame, it's you, because
it again takes two to tangoright and they'll never change
that because they don't want tohurt women's feelings.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
And then they're going to wonder why?
Because, like I've beenwondering why there's more women
attending church than men andnow I'm starting to kind of see
why.
Because it's it's kind ofanti-men.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, for the eastern orthodox which is the church
that you belong in I just say Ifeel like the unfiltered stuff
is better because at leastyou're getting like a better
perspective and like it is.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
It's just funny yeah, like for me it's mostly funny,
but yeah, but there's otherpeople that I will say the, the,
the, saying that she'sbasically ugly.
Yeah, was a bit harsh it was,but it's it's done now yeah,
it's out there.
It's just again my brainprocesses things faster, and
sometimes stuff just slips outand I'm like, oh sometimes yeah,
(54:39):
sometimes the thoughts are alittle faster than the brain.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yeah, and so then it's like whoops-a-daisy,
because that wasn't meant tosound like that.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
It meant to sound something a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
Yeah, but, stephan, even your thought-out response
was pretty bad it was.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
It was very bad.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Again, I admit that I apologize, there's a lot going
on up here.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
Okay, the last thing I want to talk about is I think
that group dating is dumb.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Group dating.
This doesn't have to be a long,like the double dates kind of
thing.
No, double dates are fine.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
No group dating is.
You're a friend group and youonly hang out with the person
that you're interested in ingroups to make sure you're not
tempted to do anything.
That's a real thing.
I don't think it works.
Not tempted to do anything I,that's a real thing.
I don't think it works.
No, it doesn't no, because howare you gonna find, how are you
gonna have any romanticconnection when you're always
surrounded by people?
(55:29):
Exactly like it just can'thappen.
And if you can't be aloneanywhere, you have a major
self-control problem exactly.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
I don't think I've ever experienced that anywhere?
Speaker 1 (55:38):
I don't I've just heard about it, yeah huh, it's.
It's really weird um it isbecause you can't be vulnerable
with someone when there's otherpeople around like having a
conversation with just you and Ilike it's never gonna be it's
never gonna be the same, as ifall three of us in the room or
like you and I, aren't gonnatalk about the exact same things
right stephan is here right.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Whatever.
We all have our own differentthings that we feel more
comfortable sharing withsomebody else we're just like
that one person at a time, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he'snot gonna tell he's not gonna
tell me what you guys weretalking about, and then you're
not gonna tell him what you talkabout, or vice versa never,
never tell you.
So I mean, even though hethinks you're fat, but I mean,
what huh?
We're gonna move on, yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
So anyway, and you guys have anything else to say
about that or have any othertopics.
Speaker 2 (56:25):
Otherwise we can I honestly call it quits I mean,
really, at that point I I don'treally think again.
Just I guess, finishing off thegroup dating thing, I think
it's just a weird thing and youcan still be tempted at some
point, because it's just like inthe typical hollywood movie
fashion is you can be in a groupand it's like, oh, I'm
interested in this person, butwe're in a group, and then they
(56:45):
just, you know, scamper off inthe beach and then the shark
comes up and eats the girl orwhatever in the lake all right,
perfect time to put the plug onthis one.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
Andy, you got anything I.
Speaker 3 (56:56):
I have nothing on the group setting because I've
never experienced it, but as Ican see it with all the details,
I don't think it would work.
Yes, because temptation isstill there and at the same time
, like it's also, I think, forone without that romantic
connection, it can still causeproblems.
Yeah, because it's like thenyou're only looking for the
romantic side of things throughpossible physical contact, if
(57:17):
you get the chance that's true,yeah, yeah, because you're not
going to be like, hey, let'ssneak off and go talk to each
other exactly, yeah nobody'sthinking that way no, yeah, but
I think that's the only thing Ican think of overall.
I've just I don't have anyexperience with it, so I have no
knowledge on it yeah all right,well, perfect.
Speaker 1 (57:34):
That was a great conversation filled with lots of
ideas yes, it Everybody stayaway from serial killers.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
Yep and sharks and sharks Don't go to dates on the
beach.
And ugly people.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Oh yeah.
All right, thanks everybody forlistening and have a blessed
week Woo, bye Woo.
Super heavy topic today.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Just kidding, how heavy, like Rosie O'Donnell.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
No, we talked about it right what we were going to
talk about.
Speaker 3 (00:14):
Or did you forget?
I didn't forget.
Did you forget?
No, I'm used to you saying thetitles of what we're doing here.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
Yeah, so as far as I'm concerned, we were going to
discuss has.
I think the question was haschurch ruined dating?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Was that what it?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
was.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
So we're all on the same page and on the clarity of
everything on.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Both spectrums not a certain thing?
What?
Speaker 3 (00:37):
do you mean on both spectrums, both for a guy and
for a girl?
Speaker 1 (00:39):
kind of thing.
Oh right yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
We're not going to try to attack one side, why not?
Speaker 1 (00:47):
No, yeah, seriously.
Yeah, we're not gonna try toattack one side, why not?
Speaker 2 (00:48):
no, yeah, seriously we're, we, is that what?
Speaker 1 (00:49):
we're doing.
We're that, we're incels, bro.
Yeah, kidding, andy's married.
I'm not a self-proclaimed incel, I just am by nature.
And then, stephan, what wouldyou?
Speaker 2 (00:58):
uh, it's kind of like , uh, a gray area, because there
is somebody I'm talking to, butit's like we.
I don't know if it's likeofficial, official right now, so
, because we've only hung out afew times that's still exciting.
Wherever it goes is wherever itgoes she's my backpack on the
back of my motorcycle.
Speaker 3 (01:16):
So I'm glad to clarify um so it's not an actual
girl, it's actually just a backit's a big guy named Tyrone.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
We're going to move on, All right so let's start
with a short answer.
Do you guys think that churchhas ruined dating, and why and
why not?
Who wants to go first?
Andy, you got pointed to.
Oh, okay, you want to go first.
Speaker 3 (01:42):
I would say yes, it has.
It has ruined it, like shortand sweet to the point.
Um, I guess the things that canback it up is like I mean, I've
had experiences before I gotmarried where it's just like
there was a certain amount ofexpectations, there were certain
things that were not workingout for either person myself or
or them, um, and there's just, Idon't know, it just felt like.
(02:05):
There was just it didn't feellike a relationship, it felt
sometimes like a job.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
What do you mean expectations?
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Well, it's like I mean, for starters, like a guy
is taught, like in a biblicalstandpoint, like the woman is
supposed to serve the guy and doall of these things, or like,
for example, like the guy shouldlead and all of this stuff,
which I think, yes, the guyshould leave, but like, um,
there's a higher set ofexpectation that was put upon
that, like the guy should alwaysbe on top of everything, and
(02:33):
then there's no nuance.
Yeah, pretty much basically Icouldn't think of the word.
And then on the other side, forwomen, it's like they're
expected to yeah, they'reexpected to be led to be, um,
kind of like what's, what's theword I'm thinking?
um the caretaker kind ofcaretaker and also to be um, a
support to yeah, to be a supportkind of thing, and I mean I can
(02:55):
agree with that too, but it'slike there's things that have
been taught where it's like it,just like I said, it feels like
more like a job rather than arelationship spectrum sometimes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and it alsois like I feel it feels like
more like a job rather than arelationship spectrum sometimes.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
Yeah, yeah yeah, and it also is like I feel like,
because I'm not married so Ireally can only speak from the
outside, I feel like it shouldbe more natural, like if, if a
guy in the relationship has tosay I'm the leader of this
relationship, it's like he's notyeah right, so it's like it
(03:27):
needs to be taught how to likeit's got to.
Speaker 2 (03:31):
It's got to work 50, 50 like you're a team.
It's got to be a team effort.
Speaker 1 (03:34):
But if the guy because if the guy is going to
lead in the relationship like ithas to, he has to like I'm
trying to think of the word, Ican't, I can't think of what the
word is he has to portray thatnaturally without saying that
he's like, coming off as likethis, I don't know like macho
man who thinks that he's like ifhe's got to prove a point, I
guess right if he has to proveanything to anybody, then it's
(03:56):
like you're not really a leaderversus like, because you all
know the people who like walkinto a room and it's like their
presence there, it's like youjust know they're a leader right
, yeah yeah, versus like the guywho has to walk in and be like
all right, I'm in charge hereI'm in charge.
Speaker 2 (04:10):
You're not like that kind of thing yeah exactly
Speaker 3 (04:14):
but, no, yeah, it definitely.
Yeah, there's.
There's so many things that Imean we can, as we talk, as we
talk about it, but there's justso many things that I feel like
have caused like dating to be somuch harder.
And yeah, I don't know, I thinkin in a way, as we, as we go
along with it.
I believe that there's justsome things that we can learn
(04:38):
out of all of this, andespecially with people who are
just now getting intorelationships or getting out of
relationships.
You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
I would say it definitely has affected
relationships with the churchcommunity From my standpoint of
things, at least on how it'sbeen portrayed by me and I'm
just going to bring up thissubject, since it's kind of like
the elephant in the room too,of how a relationship goes is
you know, typically when itcomes to saving yourself for
(05:11):
marriage, like women are taughtlike you got to definitely like
just wait for the right man.
He's got to be with God, youknow same level as you and
you're both trying to help eachother grow in that aspect in the
church community.
And I mean even guys are taughtthe same thing too.
(05:31):
But I don't think it's as strictor strictly like talked about
more, because with women I thinkthey're more of like a sacred
kind of virginity at that point,when it comes to like marriage
and you know, having a familyand all that other stuff versus
(05:52):
guys like, and I mean you cankind of go like with just dating
in general at that point is, ifyou have a guy that's sleeping
around with a lot of women likehe's really not going to get
frowned upon, but if you've gota girl that's sleeping around
with a bunch of guys, then she'sjudged upon and so with how
strict the church is with savingyourself for marriage, I think
(06:13):
in a way and again at least, howit came off for me with my last
real relationship I had wasthat it's restriction.
And so then, when you'rerestricted for your whole life
pretty much, um, it gets to thatpoint where then, all right,
now I have a boyfriend or youknow, now I have a girlfriend,
(06:36):
and you really just like it'salmost you're falling into that
temptation.
It's a lot harder to harder toum, I can't think of the word
for it.
Speaker 1 (06:47):
I don't know why I can't think none of us can think
of words today, but like it'sbecause this heat's got us tired
probably it's very hot andhumid in the midwest, so give us
a break yeah, I think it's likewhat, 87 degrees out, right,
but it's been almost 100 thepast week, that's true which
I've enjoyed, but I know youguys don't like the humidity is
the worst part.
Speaker 2 (07:06):
The heat I can tolerate, even if that was at
100 degrees.
I'm like, okay, it's really hotout, but it's like at least
it's not humid.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
We're like that's a thick.
That's a classic midwesternsaying is the?
Speaker 2 (07:17):
it's not the heat, it's the humidity, it is it's
the same thing with like man, Ican't wait till like this heat
goes away and then it snows.
And like, oh man, I can't waituntil this heat goes away and
then it snows.
And I'm like, oh man, I can'twait until the snow goes away.
But going back is like.
(07:37):
So, after you've been in thatrestricted mindset that the
church has portrayed on savingyourself for marriage, it gets
to that point then where,because you've held back for so
long, the temptation is strongerand stronger and you have less
willpower to hold back, whichthen so then, what's the right
way to go about it?
because we should be aiming tosave ourselves for marriage I
mean without getting too like ininto it, I guess you could say.
(08:00):
But getting into it is, thereare things you can do that like
won't push that boundary, Iwould say, but like obviously
not.
You know, sleeping in the samebed doing like the sims for
woohoo and everything like youknow not doing that, but like
(08:20):
even too, like there are things.
Speaker 1 (08:22):
So you're saying like , yeah, you can make, can make
out, but it's crossing, it'scrossing the danger zone.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
You would both have to know like, okay, this is the
limit, and if either one of usstarts getting that temptation,
like, immediately cut it off.
Speaker 1 (08:40):
Which isn't always easy.
Speaker 2 (08:42):
It is not always easy , Believe me.
I've been there a few times andit's been rough.
But I will again, as just anexample, with my previous last
real relationship that I had isI was with this girl for over a
year and she lived in arestricted Christian household,
you know, but she helped out thechurch that we were at and, you
(09:03):
know, she knew her morals andvalues and I knew my morals and
values and we helped each othergrow.
We were going to church moreand talking about things a lot
more.
Communication was really good,including about that subject
about saving yourself towardsmarriage.
At that point, and we hadmoments where, yeah, we were,
you know, making out and stuffand things were getting a little
(09:24):
heated.
But we both, even though wereally wanted to go further,
because at that point I hadalready put a ring on it and we
were just waiting to get married.
So where's the harm?
So where's the harm at thatpoint?
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Exactly.
Speaker 2 (09:40):
But we both had that where we were like, okay, no,
we're doing this the right waybecause this is how we were
taught.
And it was hard.
That temptation was rightbecause the person's right in
front of you at that point andthey want you just like you want
them, that God's there to helpyou walk through this and he
(10:06):
knows that person is in yourlife for the right reason and
they're there to help you.
Then that temptation almostmeans nothing.
At that point you can move onand go forward with it.
But again, with how strict thechurches are being with that,
and even in scripture it saysthat when you go outside of of
church, that's pretty much likeGod saying, like all right, I
(10:27):
taught you what you're supposedto do now are you going to
follow that and represent me, orare you going to give into
temptation and sin at that point?
Speaker 1 (10:37):
yeah, so then how?
How should churches go about it?
Speaker 2 (10:40):
because they should teach that we should wait till
marriage yeah, I think theyshouldn't be as maybe
contradicting as this sounds andyou know, because again in
scripture you say save yourselftill marriage.
I think they should not be likedirectly attacking that, like
frequently after frequent youknow preaches and stuff where
(11:03):
you know, then you know, youknow cause they have women's
Bible groups, just like theyhave men's Bible groups, and I'm
sure they talk about obviouslylike different things here and
there, but like I feel like in anormal sermon where everybody's
together, you know male, female, you know whoever they all are
in that group, so they all havean understanding.
(11:24):
But maybe I think part of it'stoo is where if you do have the
men's Bible group and you havethe women's Bible group, they
could be really conflictingagainst that whole touchy
subject too, because there mightbe a girl in there that's a
really good representative ofthe church in the women's Bible
group and she's slamming thehammer down on that whole save
(11:47):
yourself till marriage and soyou get in that mindset that
like I got to save myself, butthen you also are human, so you
have all the chemicals andhormones and stuff, and then
there you go, if you're juststrict on that, and you build up
that tension at that point andthen you just it's going to give
in and it's going to end intotal like chaos at that point
(12:07):
yeah, I mean, people shouldobviously be taught to flee from
sexual sin, because that's whatthe bible says, but they, I
think that in like don'tinterrupt me, don't interrupt,
this is my podcast shut up
Speaker 1 (12:21):
shut up uh, like men's groups.
Yeah, they should be teachingmen that like for one it's.
It's wrong to fall into that,because it is, but how do you
stay away from it and then teachthem how like to really follow
their purpose and their passion?
Because I've noticed with mewhen I'm I don't want to say the
(12:45):
word busy, because I still findtimes to- rest, you're occupied
occupied when I'm, when I'mlike practicing or working out
or any of those things.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
I have less of a desire to fall into that
temptation yeah, your mind is ina different place at that point
because you're so focused onwhat your task is that you're
doing yeah like for you, like ifit's playing bass or if it's
going on a walk.
Even at that point, yeah, yourmind is then able to be clear of
those thoughts and everything Ithink, yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
So I think if more of that was taught, versus hey,
just don't do this, and this iswhy it's bad, or like, because
there is some science behind, ifyou sleep with more people,
you're gonna it's gonna beharder to be in a relationship
down the line, which is true,but instead of just focusing on
like why not to do it, theyshould focus on how not to do it
.
I don't know what they teach inwomen's groups, because I don't
(13:36):
know what I don't know.
Like.
I know women can have passionsand drive, but it's not as much
as men I know with my sister um.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
She was in a what I don't know, andy, what was funny
no, I just it's so funny thatyou bring up the idea of drive
because it's, it's, it's, it'ssomething that we I think we
don't pay attention to as much.
I I know you say that like menhave a higher drive than women
do, but you'd be surprised.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
I wasn't talking about sex drive in that context.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
I was talking about a drive for ambition.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
But we'll get to that because we definitely know.
Speaker 2 (14:17):
Yeah, believe me, I think all three of us know.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
Yeah, so what were you going to say?
Speaker 2 (14:30):
Yeah, so anyway, what were you going to say?
Yeah, so my sister, she was ina women's Bible group for a few
years and she would just then goto the next one with whatever
church that she was going with,because she was dating different
guys and they all went tochurch.
That's one thing I will giveher is that she does find guys
that are strongly in to Christand that they're going to help
each other grow and they'regoing to help each other prosper
and get through the rough timesand all that.
(14:50):
I'll give her props for that.
But then in the women's Biblegroups I mean, it's not a whole
lot of info that I know, butlike enough to where she's
talked about it a little bit andshe says they did go over the
fact of save yourself ofmarriage almost several
occasions and it was like evenif the subject that they were
talking about like if it's likeum, like how to um feel the
(15:15):
embodiment of christ as a woman,kind of thing, and then it
would go into a totallydifferent like just not even two
seconds later, be like saveyourself for marriage, that is
the important thing.
And she was like, with thatparticular women's bible group
she was like this is just waytoo like there's no reason to
bring that up at that point,right?
(15:36):
So I feel like to a degree, itis partially the person
preaching that it's faultbecause of the way that they
present it or the way maybe theygot a different mindset.
Like you know, some people getso hurt in the past and they
feel so foolish that they didn'tsave themselves or something
happened, so they emphasize itfor other women to be like hey,
(15:58):
or even guys in that matter.
For some men's bible groups too, that can happen but like you
need to save yourself formarriage, because they're not
going to admit that maybe theymade the mistake on falling for
that.
But they are like just going tosay like it's important and
this will ruin your life if youdon't do it.
So then you get that fearmindset at that point and then
(16:24):
that is like to scare them intonot doing it.
You know that kind of thingwhich that can be.
That's a pretty bad tactic, asthis is like a fear tactic to
get them, to get that implantedin their head.
So and again, that can go forguys and women at that point.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, see, I agree, but I'm also torn on that
subject because, like I said,it's important that that gets
taught.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
Yeah, but just don't consistently push it.
At that point I guess you couldsay it's funny.
It's funny for me when you saylike that.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
To that you feel like it's been a message that's been
like like consistently yeah,it's been like implanted in
people's heads consistently.
I think for me how I'veexperienced that sometimes it's
like I feel like in some sermons, when it comes to those topics
they beat around the bush aroundit.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
They don't give oh, instead of going straight to the
point, they don't give fullexplanation to everything like
yeah, they they're like, yeah,save yourself for marriage.
Speaker 3 (17:23):
Or like, hey, this is wrong or this is the way to
that.
You should do it, um, but it'slike a lot of the time it's,
it's almost like it's stilltaboo in in the church world.
You know what I mean, and so Ithink that also is the one thing
that creates the fear, becauseit's like yeah, maybe we're
getting information, but we'rethere's still some things that
we're not right, like there'spieces of the puzzle that are
(17:45):
missing yeah, like, don't get mewrong, it's like I think I, as
I go about it now I know nowwhat I know.
But it took for me, it took theexperiences you know of what
I've gone through to figure thatout but again, though, look
where it's brought you today too.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
Even at that point now you're married, and I mean I
, I haven't really met your wifeat this point, all that much
but yeah, I'm like I'm sureshe's great.
You know, you guys have helpedeach other grow, you guys work
as a team and so fareverything's going pretty good.
Because you've been married forhow long now?
like a year or two, two yearstwo years, yeah, so it was like
three that's like a really andthat's even a good thing too at
(18:24):
that point is if you, if you'relike man, it's been so short,
like that we've been married butit's like it's felt longer,
yeah, that's that to me seemslike a really good, healthy
relationship at that point.
Speaker 3 (18:35):
Because if it feels longer than it's like your
connection at that point, likefrom all your experiences and
her experiences, yeah then thejourney that you guys were
brought together now is thismoment, yeah but that's just my
thing too is I feel like it'sjust not something that I like.
I just feel like I haven't beentold everything and I feel like
(18:56):
that's where.
So what do you mean?
Speaker 1 (18:58):
not told everything.
Not told everything about what?
Speaker 3 (19:01):
well, not told I just I think if I can go back to
like some of the sermons we wentthrough at at, like access,
when we used to go to accessyeah, like I understand when we
had, do you remember when we didlike the questionnaire thing,
like they?
they put up questions in thescreen and whatnot like yeah, of
all the people that could ask,but it's like when it came to
(19:21):
certain types of topics, withineverything, they were like we
don't know how to answer thatfor you, or like we can't answer
that for you, or okay, you knowwhat I mean, because it's like
some people actually want toknow a certain amount of, but
it's like a touchy subject maybeto some people, and so they're
like we don't know how to reallygo about that.
Yeah, it's touchy or it's justlike we don't know.
Speaker 2 (19:45):
It's like that gray area at that point.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
Yeah, but what would be considered a gray area
question?
I mean you don't have to givean exact one, but what's
something that would be a grayarea question that somebody
might not know how to answer?
Speaker 3 (19:58):
Well, well, for, for starters, I think, one of the
questions that, if I remember,that was very difficult to
answer and it was with one ofthe past, like the older, like
the actual one of the pastors,and it was like regarding like,
if I do this, but I want to getthis far, but is it like a bad
thing if I, like, just touch theline, basically, or not even
(20:21):
cross the line?
Speaker 2 (20:21):
but you go near it there.
Speaker 3 (20:23):
You know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
So I feel like if I'm a pastor, I'm going to say no,
it's not okay.
Speaker 3 (20:27):
Yeah, if.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
I'm a pastor.
I'm never going to advocate formaking.
I guess that's a bad exampletoo.
Speaker 3 (20:32):
But like I don't want to ask, I don't even remember
the question fully.
But I don't even remember thequestion fully but I want to ask
the question that was askedbecause I remember it was like
why would you ask that?
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Or like yeah, like it's a pretty obvious answer and
then the pastor can't answer it.
And then so now it's like soit's really like there's no
middle ground.
It's either like oh, we don'tknow how to talk about this, or
we're just going to shove itdown until it just becomes too
(21:02):
much.
Speaker 3 (21:03):
I still think it's crazy because, as we're taught
these things and I mean it'sgreat because we count it as a
testimony in the end, right,these are victories or these are
things that like, hey, this ishow we learned it and we want to
teach it.
But it's like, even thoughwe're taught through Scripture
and through all of our sermonsand all that stuff with, with,
with, with services at church,people still fail and people are
(21:25):
still like well, I don't wantto date because of this, or I am
having trouble dating anybodybecause they're not doing this
for me, kind of thing.
You know what I mean yeah, whatdo you mean?
Speaker 2 (21:35):
um, they're not doing this for me, so maybe, maybe
it's just even finding somebodyat that point.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Like okay.
Speaker 2 (21:42):
I've been abstinent this whole time, kind of thing,
because that's what I've beentaught.
And then it's like, okay, well,I'm like 55 and I still haven't
found somebody, because Godsays he's going to bring you
something like that yeah.
Like, I've done all this andyou're not giving me anything.
So why am I going to listen tothe sermon if I'm not going to
get anything out of it, eventhough I'm doing the right thing
?
Speaker 1 (22:00):
well, and that's the thing about america is god does
not promise people marriage no,right you're not born into
christianity as a man worthy ofbeing a partner you kind of have
to build that right in one wayor another, but you're like.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
It's kind of too like you get.
Where I'm coming from, though,is it's like you're taught all
these teachings from God andthen, in a way, some people get
a mindset of like, well, if I dothis, then I'm definitely going
to get it.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Like don't watch pornography or you're not going
to get a woman.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
But then it's like you go like, even though all the
people that watch it are theones that are getting married
the ones that are gettingmarried right literally, or
they're just famous stars atthat point, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
But what I was gonna say corn stars.
But we're gonna move on, yeah,yeah, but I'm just saying like
no, that, but that's no, we'renot censoring you can say porn.
Okay, he already said it okay,so no, I didn't even know.
He said, I don't know when.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Yeah, we're not doing the stupid corn thing.
Okay, I, I can't.
That's fair.
We are illegitimate, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
But like no, so those people there, they'll sit there
Like what he was saying is youknow you can commit all these
sins and then like, next thing,you know, maybe focus on
themselves.
He's the one struggling andhe's the one struggling.
(23:22):
But it does also say that justbecause you follow God doesn't
mean that it's going to be acakewalk.
At that point You're going tobe tested and tempted with
trials of sin at that point.
Speaker 3 (23:33):
The path is long and narrow, as it says.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
So yeah, I mean like even, too, if, like let's say,
for example, you're followingthe path of Christ, at that
point you know you're doingeverything, you're staying
abstinent, you're not fallinginto the temptation of
pornography, you're doingeverything you can, yeah.
And then you get this could bethe first trial.
You get a girl that randomlyjust, or a guy that just pops
(23:55):
into your life and you're like,holy crap, like this is amazing,
like you know, and then they'relike they're following Christ
and they're doing their best,and then all of a sudden, god
takes that away from you.
And then it's like, so he cantake things away to teach you a
(24:15):
lesson about things.
So, whether in that firstrelationship that you ever got
yourself into, let's say, youguys didn't know how to
communicate, or you guys didn'tknow how to remain abstinent or
something like that, and youmoved way too quick into the
relationship, he'll take thataway from you and then he'll
give you time to focus on thatagain, like a reset.
(24:37):
And then, when the time isright and he knows because he
knows when everything and howeverything is going to happen
then he'll bring you anotherperson in your life.
And even, too, it doesn't evenhave to be a relationship like
marriage or whatnot.
It could be even a friendship.
At that point too, you could behorrible with friends, and then
you lose a friend and then anew one comes along and then,
(24:59):
well, I messed up on this withme internally, but god gave me
this new person, so I'm notgonna mess that up again.
But again, as long if you knowstuff keeps happening, god's
gonna keep testing you.
At that point he's gonna keepputting you through trials.
And then again, once he knows,and you finally get it,
(25:20):
regardless of how old you arebecause again, you could be in
your 30s, 50s, whatever and thatright person comes into your
life or the things that you wereasking for come into your life,
then it'll prosper you at theend.
So, even with you, with yourmarriages, you've been through
what a couple of relationshipsand stuff, oh boy.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
And then now here, you are, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
So God's brought you your wife and you guys are
prospering.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
So I would say that's a win because you had to go
through trials after trials,after trials.
Same with you.
I mean me and you are bothsingle right now, but we've been
put to our trials of women Justsaying yeah, heard it here
first.
But, yeah, we've been putthrough our trials and now I
(26:10):
feel right now, at least in thispredicament with me that I'm
being put through a trial withthis particular woman and so am
I going to make the samemistakes that I may have like
nobody's perfect.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
You are but you know what I mean.
Speaker 3 (26:24):
Like kidding no let's say in a safer way, as like you
could.
Yeah, you will, right, but how?
What are you?
What are you going to learn andhow are you going to make it
better?
Exactly?
Speaker 2 (26:35):
yeah, yeah.
So whether like, because againnobody's perfect at that point
so and you got to work it, youknow, again, again, till you get
it right yeah, side note, sincewe were talking about like if
somebody became a porn staruh-huh say she turns her life
around and becomes a christian.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Uh-huh, is it wrong for the christian guy to turn
her down for that reason?
Speaker 2 (26:59):
No, Well, yeah, no.
In a way, I would say that one.
It's not a gray area.
It literally is like a yes andno.
Yeah, he has the right, becauseat that point the temptation
could come back in her life.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
Or it springs temptation to him.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Or it springs temptation to him because he
could have gone through the samething too.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
But also, even though she's been made new in Christ,
he still doesn't need to be withsomebody who lived that life.
Right, like there isconsequences to your sin, and
that is one problem.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
I think that the church shies away, especially
when it comes to like sexual sin, like guy or girl, if you sleep
with 30 people right it's goingto be pretty hard to find a
relationship because not a lotof people are going to want to
be with somebody who was withthat many people Right there's
but there's also people too thatlike, even if a girl is virgin
(27:54):
or a guy is virgin, they're notgoing to want to be with them
because they have no experienceeither so that's the other part
too.
Speaker 3 (28:01):
Again, there's the.
It is weird that I talk aboutwith expectations.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
Yeah, because in that aspect of life too.
It's like that's not reallybecause we're all born virgins,
you know we all did not likehave sex, obviously right away
at that point, like everybodystarts off virgins.
So why are you going to make adecision about maybe this person
could be perfect for you andthey're virgin.
And then, but you have the hotsfor like Bambino, who's been
(28:28):
with like 50 women and you know,but it's because he's
experienced at that point.
And then same thing with a guyyou know you could have it,
where you get this like girlthat God could put right in
front of you, that's virgin andshe's, you know, perfect,
everything that you could askfor.
But then you get, you know,jennifer lopez over here, who's
(28:48):
been with like 60 guys orsomething, and he, you know, and
then you're, but you're gonnago for her because you know
she's experienced at that point.
So then there's another trialright there.
So are you going to go forlooks?
Are you going to go for thefact that at least the person
has enough morals at that pointand followed Christ to, you know
, save themselves at that?
Speaker 1 (29:09):
point.
Yeah, I feel like the wholelike chasing the experienced
people is like a very red pillthing, Right Like.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
I mean I'll say this through the relationship, the
relationships that I've beenthrough, Like, yes, it does help
if they've had experienceobviously not to like you know
30 people, but like if they'veat least had a little bit of
experience, yes, it helps.
But again, I dated and wasengaged to a virgin woman and I
(29:35):
didn't care at that pointbecause I respected her values.
She was following the stepsthrough christ at that point and
she and I had enough respectfor each other and, yeah, I was
experienced.
I had one other relationshipand I I get messed up.
I was in a friends with benefitsfor like four years whoa, yeah,
that's gross it was, and it wasthe first and only time I'll do
(29:56):
it, because it was absolutelydisgusting.
Um, but again, we're all youngand we all make mistakes.
At that point, Well, you dobelieve it or not.
At that time that had experiencethat I was interested in.
But then, as soon as my nowex-fiance was in the picture and
(30:27):
I first met her and I, she toldme that she was virgin and she
I was basically her firstboyfriend.
She only went on one date andit went like the same day it
ended because the guy was onlyafter one thing and he didn't
care that she was virgin andthat she had tattoos and
whatever else.
But I but you get that personthat sees past that and then,
you're, you're good to go.
You know it's like cause.
Then that again is anothertrial that God's putting you
(30:50):
through is like okay, they'renot experienced this is all new
to them.
Can you help them prosper Likethey can help you prosper at
that?
Speaker 1 (30:58):
point.
Yeah, because when you'remarried you learn what each
other likes.
Speaker 2 (31:03):
So experience really doesn't matter, because if you
just jump straight into sex in arelationship, it's not a
relationship.
And you're going to overlookred flags Exactly exactly,
exactly Because, yeah, they gota smoking bot, but they could
literally be a serial killer,like you know, jeffrey donovan,
you always go for, like theextremes, no, but you know what
(31:25):
I'm just saying, that smokinghot buds, but it's true, lambos
or she could be a serial killer.
Well, because think about itthough, because we've already
established that you know, like,how women look through guys.
Like they can still look at aguy for looks, but they look at
them through a different.
They have more of the emotionalside of things, where guys are
(31:46):
more visual.
So, yeah, when I say hot bods,it's like, okay, the guy is
looking at hot bods, or even awoman can look at hot bods, but
then you get also the guy thatlooks at the emotional side of
things.
Look at hot bods, but then youget also the guy that looks at
the emotional side of things.
Maybe he's less attracted towhat you look like and you look
like the pillsbury dough boy,but you're perfect in every way,
kind of thing oh, that'sanother thing that I want.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
That's a great segue to the next yeah section is the
size matter not in that way tomorgan and morgan, the law firm
it does they're the biggest lawfirm um, but that's not what I
was going with.
Yeah, we're talking about uh,what was it?
(32:28):
Oh, physical attraction.
Yeah, I think that the churchdumbs that down.
Speaker 2 (32:32):
I think it's more important than they say it is,
but I don't think it'severything yeah, because they
don't want to, because now,especially with today, like
everybody's sensitive, becauseyou don't want to sit there and
be like, yeah, you know, youover there, the 600 pound life
t-shirt on that weighs 600pounds.
Like again, you may or may not.
You may or may not findsomebody because you're big.
(32:54):
But this guy over here,chiseled chin and everything
looking like the crimson chin,he's perfect and he will find a
christian woman.
I've never heard any pastor saythat but you know what I?
mean it's like they don't reallygo about they.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
They beat around the bush yeah, nobody's gonna say
that like that, because first ofall that might be a little rude
, but right to a lot to lie topeople yeah and say that it
shouldn't matter what don'tmatter is you're doing them a
disservice right, because itreally, to a degree it does
matter yes, well, yeah, becauseif, if I'm talking to a girl and
(33:29):
she's awesome and she's got agreat personality, but she
doesn't, she's not attractive.
She's going to be my friend,right, only my friend right.
Speaker 2 (33:38):
And then same thing with girls right now too is like
you know you could have like aguy that makes you laugh and
like you know they're there foryou and everything.
But if they're really big orthey just don't take care of
themselves kind of thing Iwasn't extreme, I said but if
they're really big or they justthey look gross, like you know,
(33:59):
then they're gonna be in thefriend zone indefinitely.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
At that point, yeah yeah, yeah, so it's, it's dumbed
down, but it's hard because itseems like people always want to
go to extremes.
So then now they're saying,well, looks, don't matter at all
.
But it's like you have to findthat in between of, yeah, they
matter, but they shouldn't beeverything.
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Right, it shouldn't be like your main.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, because somebody can be really good
looking, but again have somemajor red flags Right, like
maybe she's a serial killer orsomething, maybe she will be, I
don't know that really is how itpretty much is summed up too,
and I don't think again, again.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
That is a touched up subject at churches.
Speaker 1 (34:40):
They just kind of beat around the bush with it and
it's not realistic and it makespeople feel bad, because then
you're like well, I don't reallylike her.
And it's like well, why don'tyou like her?
Speaker 2 (34:48):
and it's like well, she's got a dimple on her cheek
or something like that, and it'slike okay, everybody else does
so, do you so?
Why, are you judging?
Speaker 1 (34:55):
I don't have dimples, I don't either.
Speaker 2 (34:57):
I'll say this too from personal experiences.
I used to be the guy in myearly 20s that I would basically
like.
The kind of girl that I wouldwant and I'd only look for was
blonde, had like a really goodtoned body, whatnot.
So basic, right, I know, andnot a serial killer either.
(35:20):
Um, but that's what I would belooking for, because it was like
I don't care if they're a redflag or not, and you know I'm
inexperienced at that point.
I just want a good lookingblonde woman and a little bit
shorter than me and everythingelse.
And then, as the years went by,what and again with the
experience, the crunch was sosatisfying at the mic, um, when
(35:46):
it came down to that.
So my first girlfriend, forexample really good looking girl
, she had pretty much everythingI wanted, but she had dyed hair
.
But I at that point Didn't carebecause she was a good looking
girl at that point and after thecrap that I I will admit I put
myself through with her and I amnot the only one at fault and
(36:09):
she is not the only one at faultfor why the relationship died
at that point.
But I learned after her maybe Ishouldn't have that kind of
expectation, because that taughtme if you get a good looking
girl like that and you justfocus on the looks like a good
figure, eight and everything,you're going to probably end up
hurting her or hurting yourselfat the end of the day or both or
(36:32):
both, yeah.
And then that's when, again, myex-fiance came around at the
time and yeah, she wasn't thebest-looking girl, wow.
Speaker 3 (36:43):
Here's the thing.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Let me back that up.
Speaker 3 (36:45):
It's not as harsh as what I'm trying to make it.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Say no filter for anything you're saying To me
though here's the thing A biggerpop filter for your mic.
Speaker 2 (36:56):
Here's the thing.
Let me backtrack on that,because that did sound really
bad.
Speaker 3 (37:02):
So to there's still some hurt feelings here.
Speaker 1 (37:06):
That's why no, no she's not gonna listen to this.
No but no I.
Speaker 2 (37:11):
I've had no contact with her for such a long time,
but she so to me.
At first, when I looked at thecomparison, I guess, between my
first girlfriend and her, I'mlike she is not as like anything
remotely comparable to like asgood as the first one.
And that's still.
(37:31):
I know.
I know it's not, I'm trying tosay because I'm really bad at
wording and I don't mean it inthe way that I'm saying just
skip this.
Speaker 1 (37:38):
No, we're not we're doing it.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
They're no longer in my life, so and again, they're
not gonna I understand that, butno, but here let me again I
apologize.
Speaker 1 (37:49):
I'm out of words.
I apologize to the audience athand.
Speaker 2 (37:52):
I don't mean it as brutally as it may come off.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
You're about to be a hater, it's just I know I am
it's the only way that I do notbring this guy.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
It's the only way that I can word it in my brain
and have it translate out here.
But I can kind of back up somethings.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
So at this point it's the sugar coating, that's more.
I know it is ugly bro.
Speaker 2 (38:15):
I mean not really.
But the thing is is this thoughso I looked at myself at that
point and I was a bigger guy,like I wasn't 300 pounds and
whatnot, but I was getting closeto that.
I was like maybe 280 orsomething, but I looked at it as
this, as I'm like.
So that's when I think God wasbringing me that teaching of
(38:36):
okay, so it shouldn't matterwhat the girl looks like Like
yeah, she doesn't have to be a10 out of 10 like the last one,
but she could be like an 8 outof 10 or a 9 out of 10, whatever
, but her morals are whatmatters at that point is what I
was trying to get to.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:54):
Just again, I'm very bad at wording because my brain
just kind of just spits outwhatever it's thinking yeah, you
picked the worst path.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
I know you really did , I know To get there.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
I know I did so mean I apologize to the audience.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
It's like trying to rock climb up Mount Everest
instead of going up the trail.
Speaker 2 (39:12):
That's what you did, I know, I know.
But to me in my eyes at thatpoint I knew that she was the
most beautiful girl.
In my eyes, that's whatmattered.
I didn't care about anythingelse.
You know, anybody could come inwith like crooked teeth,
whatever, you know, maybe theyhave a bald spot on their head,
something I don't know.
(39:35):
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (39:36):
But again, it's just that stefan worries about, by
the way, everyone.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
Yeah, yeah yeah, but if they, honestly to me, have
that quality of they have theirmorals in line, they have a set
path, they're willing to help megrow like I'm willing to help
them grow, I would rather havethem in my life, you miss the
shots you don't take at thatpoint, the shots you don't take
(40:04):
at that point.
So if god's bringing me thisperson, yeah, they may not be
everything that my ideal manbrain thinks of, but she's there
for a reason at that point.
Right, and even with my lastgirlfriend that I had, she was
and again this one I actually amtrue on she was a bigger set
girl, but at that time again,she had it is, it is but, I'm
(40:25):
just saying she was a bigger setgirl.
But she also had her morals inline.
Me and her had been through thesame kind of experiences at
that point and we both had thatsame mindset of things and I at
that again I looked at myselfand was like who am I to judge?
(40:46):
If I'm still a bigger guy andshe's a bigger girl, why is it?
If she is coming again into mylife at that point?
Why am I going to turn thatdown?
Because she's bigger?
You know, I have no room tojudge because I'm a bigger guy
at that point would you haveroom to judge if you weren't a
bigger guy?
I mean, as long as the uh, thesim and roll twister thing, uh,
(41:08):
at the store, you know, couldpop properly, but you know, I
don't know where I was goingwith that, so I'm just gonna,
we're gonna move on, yeah, butyou get, where I'm saying is
like you can't judge others atthat point if you can't look at
yourself and be like what'swrong with me?
Because if you have that selfNext time, lead with that.
Yeah, and then end with that too.
Well, you could probably editit to be like right at the
(41:30):
disclaimer no, I'm leaving it atthat.
Speaker 1 (41:33):
Yeah, this whole testimony of yours it's all
there.
Speaker 2 (41:37):
But you guys understand where I'm going with
it.
You can't really just judgesomebody else if you can't look
at yourself in the mirror and belike, okay, well, I'm Mr
Perfect, and it's like, no,you're not.
Speaker 3 (41:47):
Well, I am.
Oh, are you?
Speaker 2 (41:49):
Yeah, I mean compared to me and you, he's the one
that's married.
Speaker 3 (41:52):
So I mean, that's true, that is true, I'm far from
perfect boys, but but yeah, asfar as, like, experiences go,
that's that's.
Yeah, yeah, I think overall.
I for me, I guess looks domatter, but yeah, they haven't
always been like the main thing,I never thought any girl I ever
(42:13):
dated was bad looking.
You know, as stefan might say,you know if they're, I didn't.
Speaker 2 (42:18):
I didn't think any of them were serial killers they
come if they come off like anexploded can of cinnamon rolls.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
Precisely.
I do think looks matter, but itshouldn't be the thing you lead
on.
For me, it's obviously the waythey portray themselves to be.
I dated one girl that was very,very disorganized.
For me, I'm a very organizedperson.
Speaker 2 (42:45):
You're like OCD kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
I wouldn't say OCD, but yes.
But I'm the kind of guy thatI'm married now and I still do
the laundry.
I do both our laundry I do mineand my wife's but this girl
leaving clothes everywhere.
I feel like that's most girls,if I'm honest with you this one
was by far the worst, becauseeveryone else I ever dated in my
(43:08):
life they were fine.
But like there's just clotheseverywhere and like you know how
, like the basic thing wherelike a girl would have like a
full body mirror, like attachedto the the door or something.
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Yeah to the door.
Speaker 3 (43:17):
well, this thing is like tipped over and like
leaning on the wall and doingall these other things and like
there's like paper plates on herdesk and all this stuff from
like food she ate.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
Oh gosh yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
So it was for me.
That's very hard.
So I think for me it's likewhat's more important is
definitely like portrayal ofoneself.
Speaker 2 (43:36):
But yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:36):
But again, going back to what Stefan says, who am I
to judge?
Speaker 2 (43:40):
I mean again, I'm a very clean person, I'm very
organized, but I shouldn't judge, and even, too, through those
experiences it's like then youget taught that, yeah, I should
not be judging them if I have myown flaws at that point, and
then you'll be led onto theright path eventually.
Speaker 3 (43:56):
Yeah, but no.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
I can't get over the things that you were saying
about your exes.
It's so funny.
Speaker 2 (44:06):
I'm just saying you know, you know where you belong
is the eastern orthodox church,the guys with no filter that's
where you need to start, but itmakes it so much better though,
but in a worse way, in apositive way at the same time.
It's just.
That's just how it comes.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
Yeah, you're definitely gonna have haters and
lovers oh, nobody's in betweenwith you.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
This is why I'm single ladies.
Oh, they know.
Yeah, you're like, yeah, thisguy, all right Now we can talk
about drive the sex drive.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (44:33):
Because I think that in church specifically, it's
usually put on the guys who havethe high sex drive and there's
a lot of problems that come withthat type of rhetoric, because
because then you're the one thatmake like the females, like the
innocent one that's gonna, shehas the most control and she
(44:53):
doesn't have that much drive.
And then yeah, so if, if, ifboundaries are being broke,
whose fault fault?
Speaker 2 (45:00):
is it the man?
Speaker 1 (45:01):
It's always the guy's fault and then they can just
decide to end the relationshipbecause they're like, oh, he
keeps breaking the boundariesand they side with the women and
they never get told like, hey,you might be a problem in this
scenario, are you sure you'renot insinuating, are you sure
you're not doing anything thatcauses this Right?
Speaker 2 (45:22):
yeah, because everybody knows it takes two to
tango at that point.
So women are again, men areattracted to that physical
attraction.
And you know, if your girllooks at you in a weird way with
her dilated eyes and she's likegazing in dude you, she's
looking at you with them eyesand you're just like I can't
help it.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
No, they're definitely dilated, you're
correct.
It's just, I would never havethought about that.
Speaker 3 (45:46):
I also.
Yeah, you give us the fulldetails.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
It's just like so quippy that I can't.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
Like comprehend, like how quick it was.
Yeah, it's just like.
Speaker 1 (45:55):
I don't know how your brain works faster than mine
does.
Brain works faster than minedoes.
Um, but then also with that,it's basically saying that women
don't want it so when you getmarried, you're basically his
sex slave.
Whenever he wants it, you haveto give it to him and it's just
like yeah women want it too.
Yeah, they just need to be heldmore accountable, I think,
because each relationship she'sgoing to get in, if she's never
(46:19):
told that boundaries being brokeare also her fault, then
nothing is ever she's going toget in.
If she's never told thatboundaries being broke are also
her fault then nothing is evergoing to change.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
She's going to go on her merrily way like I've done
nothing wrong in myrelationships.
That's why they ended.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
Yeah, and it's going to be like I just keep finding
all these bad guys.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
They're all horny all the time and it's just like I
don't know what I'm doing.
Right, yeah, You're a woman.
Speaker 3 (46:44):
That's right.
Yeah, you're a woman, that'swhat she's doing.
That's definitely a big issue.
For, yeah, I think, for I willsay for the beginning of the
relationship with my wife, likewe've, we've, we all fall short.
So we've fallen short plenty oftimes and in the relationship
as we, as we were dating, um,and as we were going through our
marriage counseling it was.
It was crazy, because I feltlike I was always the one being
looked at when we're explainingthese things and it's like, well
(47:05):
, andy, what can, what can youdo to be better?
I'm like, so I'm, I'm feelinglike, well, I'm carrying both of
the weight, like it's not.
It sometimes it didn't feellike a two person, me kind of
thing, and so that made it very,very hard.
And, yeah, I can say that itmakes it so difficult that the
(47:25):
church decides to put it on oneside more than anything, and
then that is kind of somethingthat ends up ruining the
beginning of dating for a lot ofpeople.
That's why I'm saying, too,women have this expectation.
Well, if I date this guy, isthis going to be a problem?
Like are we going to havesituations where we just can't
handle ourselves?
Speaker 2 (47:45):
or right, like we can't be around each other for
too long, because then it'llbring that temptation in there.
Speaker 1 (47:49):
Yeah what about like the way they dress?
Speaker 2 (47:54):
uh, that can.
That can definitely play afactor, because if you get some
skim and I'm talking, talkingboth sides yeah men can dress
from the from the viewpoint of aman.
Yeah, there we go if you get agirl that comes in with a skimpy
dress, that her butt's hangingout and she's sitting there
wearing a crop top, where likeunder boob is showing, and she's
(48:15):
going into church and she's alllike I'm a.
I'm a great girl that believesin god some of them dress that
way they do yeah I'm surprisedtoo.
I've seen it, it's just andthat's the thing, though, is
like and then okay, but don't.
Then they're like don'tsexualize me and don't like give
into temptation.
But then it's like okay, thenwhy are you hanging out with
your butt, like from the bottomof your dress, then literally
(48:37):
protruding the fact of don'tgive into temptation and don't
sexualize me?
It's like don't be dressinglike that, then I get it that
guys need to have self-control.
I'm not saying that they can'tdress like that right but guys
do need to have self-control andwomen need to have self-control
about how objectifying thatthey're portraying themselves at
(48:58):
that point I.
Speaker 1 (49:00):
I think it's a both and situation.
Speaker 2 (49:01):
Yeah, because guys can wear like a skin tight
t-shirt.
No, I'm saying like.
Speaker 1 (49:06):
I'm saying like yeah, yeah, oh yeah.
I'm just saying like, yes, guysneed to learn how to control
themselves and also controltheir eyes.
Like, yes, guys need to learnhow to control themselves and
also control their eyes.
But if you're a woman andyou're going to dress that way,
you are going to attract theguys who don't have self-control
(49:29):
and the creepy ones.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
Because they're the ones that are looking for that
Right.
And then you can't get mad whenthey approach you, or you let
them in and stuff happens atthat point.
Speaker 1 (49:38):
Yeah, because there's always going to be creeper guys
that are going to that want areattracted to only your body at
the church.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
Yeah, oh yeah.
You think you just walk intochurch and they're just sitting
there and they're like, oh yeah,praise God.
And they're just not looking atthe girl next door and she's
sitting there wearing a crop topor whatever else, and she's
like, you know, the typicalthing, and then just like, yeah
no I'm a good christian girl,and then he's just gonna be like
praise god, like that's justhow it is.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Yeah so I think it's like you can't, and they need to
have they need to have a womanteach women how to dress instead
of having like men, because italways comes off as like
controlling or whatever it'slike.
Have a woman who's brave enoughto tell them hey maybe when you
come to church, don't dresslike you just came back from the
club right like don't, what areyou doing?
Speaker 2 (50:28):
right like don't be like suit.
You don't have to be like suitand tie, but like right, just
wear something casual.
Yes, a little more modest, likethis is fine, like what we're
wearing, like you know, jerseyt-shirt stefan, please do not
show up to church with a Jersey.
Speaker 3 (50:43):
I can think of one guy at at at church.
Speaker 2 (50:45):
Do you want me to show you what's underneath?
Speaker 3 (50:47):
No, oh my God.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Anxiety.
Speaker 3 (50:52):
I can think of one guy at church.
I would really appreciate hisJersey, though.
Speaker 2 (50:56):
I already got complimented on it when I was at
the store getting the Arizona.
Speaker 3 (50:59):
Oh H no, got complimented on it when I was at
the store getting the arizonat's and stuff.
Oh no, well, there too,actually.
But at our old church, our goodfriends at res, I can't think
of.
Speaker 2 (51:05):
I mean but would you rather see like a jersey at
church or see something thatlike I?
Speaker 1 (51:10):
have daddy issues.
Oh, I know, yeah but you get.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
Where I'm getting at, though, is like, yeah, we're
joking about the jersey, butlike, would you rather see a
jersey being worn praising godor something that says I have
mommy issues?
Speaker 1 (51:23):
okay, stephan, it's not like those are the only two
options no, I know, but like,hey, what do you?
What are you gonna wear tochurch?
Speaker 3 (51:30):
you have a jersey, or I have mommy issues, sure I
think we need to go back to thewhole monochromatic, like
everybody just needs to wearlike, like skirts that go down
to the ankles, and men tofull-on suit and ties yeah, but
then you get those guys withfoot fetishes.
Speaker 2 (51:43):
So then are you just telling, like women to like
cover up everything.
At that point I'm just becausethere are guys that do that, I'm
just saying ah, it's 100 fact.
There was a guy at walmart theother day that was sitting there
and there was a girl wearinglike hey dudes or something like
that, you know, and he'ssitting there like in the line.
I swear to God, he was sittingthere just eyeballing.
Speaker 1 (52:04):
And you know that he was just looking at her feet.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
He literally was looking at her feet, and she got
creeped out and so she had tomove.
Speaker 1 (52:12):
I suppose it is Walmart, right, I was going to
say it's.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Walmart.
Well, it's a petting zoo inthere every day.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
You find a new animal .
You know.
Okay, back to the topic at hand.
Yeah, women have sex drive too.
Yes, they do.
Speaker 2 (52:28):
And sometimes they, I feel like to a degree, I feel
like they can definitely controlit a lot better than a guy, I
would think.
Speaker 1 (52:35):
I don't know To a degree To a degree.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
In my oh, we're going to get a Caleb testimony.
Speaker 1 (52:42):
I'm not getting into, maybe not specific situations,
but in my experience with womenin the church they push the
boundaries either the same, ifnot more, than I would, and so I
don't know if they.
But also I don't want to hearabout how they have more
self-control.
Speaker 2 (52:57):
I would say, though, here's the thing it can tie back
to the way that they weretaught about saving themselves
towards marriage, because theyhave that implemented in their
head with either fear orwhatever, and they're like, well
, if I do this, but then againthat temptation is even stronger
at that point.
So then they see you andthey're like dang, and then they
(53:19):
just want to ask you out, orthey want to flirt, and then
push the boundaries, and thenthey could even, at that point,
be manipulating you and beinglike, oh well, it was his fault,
because he was just so much ofa horn dog it wasn't even funny
yeah, I mean, that's kind ofwhat has happened in the past
with me, where it's like theyblame me for that, and then it's
it's like but you're the onewho led me on at that point,
(53:40):
you're the one who was pushingthe buttons.
So really, it's not just me youhave to blame, it's you, because
it again takes two to tangoright and they'll never change
that because they don't want tohurt women's feelings.
Speaker 1 (53:53):
And then they're going to wonder why?
Because, like I've beenwondering why there's more women
attending church than men andnow I'm starting to kind of see
why.
Because it's it's kind ofanti-men.
Speaker 2 (54:04):
Yeah, for the eastern orthodox which is the church
that you belong in I just say Ifeel like the unfiltered stuff
is better because at leastyou're getting like a better
perspective and like it is.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
It's just funny yeah, like for me it's mostly funny,
but yeah, but there's otherpeople that I will say the, the,
the, saying that she'sbasically ugly.
Yeah, was a bit harsh it was,but it's it's done now yeah,
it's out there.
It's just again my brainprocesses things faster, and
sometimes stuff just slips outand I'm like, oh sometimes yeah,
(54:39):
sometimes the thoughts are alittle faster than the brain.
Speaker 2 (54:41):
Yeah, and so then it's like whoops-a-daisy,
because that wasn't meant tosound like that.
Speaker 1 (54:47):
It meant to sound something a little bit more.
Speaker 2 (54:49):
Yeah, but, stephan, even your thought-out response
was pretty bad it was.
Speaker 1 (54:51):
It was very bad.
Speaker 2 (54:54):
Again, I admit that I apologize, there's a lot going
on up here.
Speaker 1 (54:58):
Okay, the last thing I want to talk about is I think
that group dating is dumb.
Speaker 2 (55:03):
Group dating.
This doesn't have to be a long,like the double dates kind of
thing.
No, double dates are fine.
Speaker 1 (55:08):
No group dating is.
You're a friend group and youonly hang out with the person
that you're interested in ingroups to make sure you're not
tempted to do anything.
That's a real thing.
I don't think it works.
Not tempted to do anything I,that's a real thing.
I don't think it works.
No, it doesn't no, because howare you gonna find, how are you
gonna have any romanticconnection when you're always
surrounded by people?
(55:29):
Exactly like it just can'thappen.
And if you can't be aloneanywhere, you have a major
self-control problem exactly.
Speaker 2 (55:35):
I don't think I've ever experienced that anywhere?
Speaker 1 (55:38):
I don't I've just heard about it, yeah huh, it's.
It's really weird um it isbecause you can't be vulnerable
with someone when there's otherpeople around like having a
conversation with just you and Ilike it's never gonna be it's
never gonna be the same, as ifall three of us in the room or
like you and I, aren't gonnatalk about the exact same things
right stephan is here right.
Speaker 2 (55:59):
Whatever.
We all have our own differentthings that we feel more
comfortable sharing withsomebody else we're just like
that one person at a time, right?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, because he'snot gonna tell he's not gonna
tell me what you guys weretalking about, and then you're
not gonna tell him what you talkabout, or vice versa never,
never tell you.
So I mean, even though hethinks you're fat, but I mean,
what huh?
We're gonna move on, yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:21):
So anyway, and you guys have anything else to say
about that or have any othertopics.
Speaker 2 (56:25):
Otherwise we can I honestly call it quits I mean,
really, at that point I I don'treally think again.
Just I guess, finishing off thegroup dating thing, I think
it's just a weird thing and youcan still be tempted at some
point, because it's just like inthe typical hollywood movie
fashion is you can be in a groupand it's like, oh, I'm
interested in this person, butwe're in a group, and then they
(56:45):
just, you know, scamper off inthe beach and then the shark
comes up and eats the girl orwhatever in the lake all right,
perfect time to put the plug onthis one.
Speaker 1 (56:54):
Andy, you got anything I.
Speaker 3 (56:56):
I have nothing on the group setting because I've
never experienced it, but as Ican see it with all the details,
I don't think it would work.
Yes, because temptation isstill there and at the same time
, like it's also, I think, forone without that romantic
connection, it can still causeproblems.
Yeah, because it's like thenyou're only looking for the
romantic side of things throughpossible physical contact, if
(57:17):
you get the chance that's true,yeah, yeah, because you're not
going to be like, hey, let'ssneak off and go talk to each
other exactly, yeah nobody'sthinking that way no, yeah, but
I think that's the only thing Ican think of overall.
I've just I don't have anyexperience with it, so I have no
knowledge on it yeah all right,well, perfect.
Speaker 1 (57:34):
That was a great conversation filled with lots of
ideas yes, it Everybody stayaway from serial killers.
Speaker 2 (57:42):
Yep and sharks and sharks Don't go to dates on the
beach.
And ugly people.
Speaker 1 (57:46):
Oh yeah.
All right, thanks everybody forlistening and have a blessed
week Woo, bye Woo.
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