August 3, 2025 • 48 mins
Two worship leaders sit down for an unfiltered conversation about authenticity in ministry that challenges how we approach faith communities today. What begins as casual studio banter evolves into a profound discussion about the tension between religious performance and genuine spiritual transformation.
The conversation takes an unexpected turn when they explore how churches often focus on external appearances rather than heart change. "Only in the church have I received sit-down notices based not on theological differences, but on external habits," one leader shares, reflecting on early ministry experiences where his jewelry and appearance became targets for criticism. This leads to a powerful examination of how welcoming churches truly are to broken people seeking connection with God.
They tackle the paralysis of perfectionism in ministry, with one leader confessing that his desire to launch the "perfect" podcast delayed his start by nearly a year. His friend's "just do it" approach – starting simply and improving consistently – proved far more effective. This philosophy extends beyond content creation into spiritual development: waiting for perfect conditions often means never beginning at all.
One of the most thought-provoking segments explores God's jealousy as a positive attribute. "God is so jealous for relationship with us that He'll tear down any idol we create," they observe, reframing spiritual challenges as evidence of God actively removing barriers between Himself and His people. This perspective offers hope to listeners struggling with recurring issues in their spiritual journey.
The leaders candidly distinguish between true accountability (walking alongside someone through struggles) and toxic exposure (publicly highlighting failures without offering restoration). Through vulnerable stories and biblical insights, they paint a vision for churches that embrace people exactly as they are while providing the resources, relationships, and truth needed for authentic transformation.
Whether you're a worship leader seeking refreshment, someone hurt by religious communities, or simply curious about authentic Christianity, this conversation offers both challenge and hope. Join us for a raw, unscripted dialogue that might just change how you think about faith, community, and personal transformation.
Website: https://unhingedchristian.buzzsprout.com/
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Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ2RmIFRIlcH-L-UPZYtGSw
Blog: https://www.unhingedchristianblog.com/blog
X/Twitter: https://twitter.com/PalebCarker
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Go up, go up, go up, go up, go.
Hey, go up, go up, go up, go up.
We've got the same problemEthan does, because I'm getting
close to how it was.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Really, yeah, Ethan's will be loud and then I'll turn
it down.
He's like go up, go up, andthen it'll be about where it was
.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
And he's like that's great Interesting.
That's probably what happens atchurch too.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I think it's because people got to get used to it or
something.
Yeah, this morning the soundwas bad for me, I don't really
know why.
Like in the in-ear monitors, Ijust couldn't get it right.
I couldn't get the right levels.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Sometimes that happens.
Very weird, unexplainable.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, normally it's spot on, but every so often
today I could not hear the click, even when I had them turn it
up.
I just couldn't keep track ofit.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm pretty sure I probably have hearing damage
because of how loud I would havethe click when I would play
there, and then I would alsohave the drums blasting as well.
Yeah.
So it's just like I rememberthat they told me that I had to
turn my click down because itwas picking up in my in-ears to
the singer's mic, exactly, yeah,there'll be some people like
(01:15):
that.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I have all of the music down.
I have click a little bit ofthe track and vocals in my ear.
A little bit of the track andvocals in my ear.
So when every time a guitarplayer comes up to me and be
like dang man, I'm so sorry formessing up.
Did you hear me mess up?
I'll be like I you did fine doyou?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
do you have any instruments that are just on
zero?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
all of them okay, all of them um if, if I turn up an
instrument, it's the piano yeahor who are, you know, keys one,
whichever one that's what I'llhave.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I'll usually have keys drums and click yep and
that was about it.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I'd sometimes try to have drums, but of course it
always depends on who's drummingit always depends on, depends
on.
So I was when I lost clickduring the set this morning, or
during the first set thismorning.
I lost click um, and so I wasjust going with the drums yeah
(02:18):
but one of the hits were off andso that really screwed me up,
cause I'm like I don't, and itwas like one of those transition
points where we're going intothe next part of the song, so it
was crazy.
Oh, that's so much.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, I didn't know where, I didn't know where that
was coming from, so I just mutedthat channel.
It must be that, mike.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Okay, that sounds so much more crisp.
Yes, all right, kelly, what youwant to talk about first.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
What's going on with the pink um, pink laptop well,
first of all, I've had that foryears now and because I'm
colorblind, I thought it was wasgold.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Oh, I could see that.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Technically it's rose gold and.
I can't see the pink.
So when people always ask me,like, what's with the pink
laptop?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I'm like man.
I you thought it was rose gold.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I haven't even known that it was pink, so I'll just
be at the cafe with it and withthis pink laptop, and I never
knew it, so I don't know howmany people have judged me
throughout the years.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I wasn't judging at all, I just thought it was an
interesting choice I feel likeit was a blue laptop.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Would you have asked the same question?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I would have asked that because I've never seen a
blue mac before.
That's number one, number two,um.
I feel like max.
This is gonna sound stupid, butwhen I think of max like the
laptop, I don't think likecreative or creator.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Um how dare you?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I know the thing is when, for the mac desktop, when
I look at one of those, Iautomatically think creator,
like whoever's doing this,editing videos, they're a
podcaster, like they're somebodylike that.
But when I see a laptop, I justautomatically think somebody's
checking emails, somebody'swriting up documents.
You know, somebody just has itfor general use because it came
(04:22):
with their phone.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Well, it didn't come with a phone, but I'll say that
it isn't the best for editingvideos.
It does work, though with howmuch RAM it has because, I think
it's only got eight gigs whenyou want 16.
But I'm also just editing somesimple conversation.
It's not like some art project,music video or something like
(04:47):
that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Got you.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So I make it work.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
How long do you think it takes you to edit your
videos?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Depends on how long the episode is.
If it's like an hour long, itmight take two or three hours,
because I go through and watchthe whole thing and then when
you're talking, I'll cut out myfootage of me so it just shows
you and once I'm talking, so itflips back and forth I see which
software do you use.
(05:15):
Then cap cut, cap cut okay, andthen, for if it's a really long
episode, say two hours or twoand a half I'll just pick
certain sections of like 30minutes and then have it just
like side by side.
Yeah, because I don't feel likegoing through the whole thing
and editing I don't think youreally need to no, no, not
(05:35):
coming.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Okay, what you want to talk about today?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
you're the one that wanted to come on.
I thought you had all the yes,I had all the ideas I had all
the all of the ideas.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
First of all, I want to say I didn't tell you this
yesterday because I didn't wantyou to get to be here.
I'm just playing.
That's a joke that we, we setup on my podcast.
Pastor david was on my podcastthe other day and he had he had
mentioned something like that.
It's like we say nice thingsabout people when they die, but
we always scared, always scaredto say it while they're here,
(06:06):
and his joke was he had askedthem why do you feel so
comfortable saying the nicethings when they die but you
don't say nice things whenthey're alive?
And the person's response isusually because I didn't want
them to get the big head, andthat's so us.
That's so us Like now, I didn'twant you to get the big head
(06:29):
yesterday when we had breakfast,but I wanted to tell you that
this, first of all, isincredible.
Like what you're doing withyour podcast, what you're doing
with your platform is incredibleand it has literally inspired
me to do what I'm doing.
We talked, probably since we'veknown each other, about
(06:51):
podcasting and both doing whatwe're doing in our different
realms and for the most part,the whole entire time, I've been
trying to get everything right,trying to get everything that I
thought needed to be in placein order to launch, only to then
get everything in place that Ithink need to be in place in
order to launch, and then launch.
(07:12):
And then, next thing, you know,I need to change everything
because nothing works the waythat it should have.
But through that process, rightme, getting my podcast off the
ground was literally an addedyear.
It was almost 12 months ofadded time, whereas you were
(07:36):
just like I think I want tostart a podcast.
So boom.
And then I remember asking you Iwas like what do you set up?
Do you do any post edits?
Do you have this, do you havethat?
And you're like, no, I justpost.
And I think that that'sincredible.
So that has definitely been acatalyst, at least for me, in
(07:56):
lighting the fire, keeping thefire up under my feet, to just
go with it, just go with it.
And as I've done that, whatI've realized is all of the
stuff that I was trying to getinto place really don't work for
what I'm doing anyway.
And then, actually doing it,I've been able to learn what
does work for me, what do I like, what do I not like what is the
(08:20):
audience looking for?
What are they not looking for?
Things of that sort.
But I've been able to really doit in the way that I really
wanted to do it once I gotstarted.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And it it took, you know, a part of me just getting
rid of what my vision was for itin terms of visuals, in terms
of aesthetics.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And just focusing squarely on the content.
Um, because all of the visualsand aesthetics and things of
that sort have literally justworked itself out.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Every episode is literally one percent better
than the last, because I'velearned something new yeah,
that's what all the podcastersand youtubers that I watch and
listen to would always say isjust like start and it will get
better because you'll startseeing what you're creating and
be like.
How can I make this better?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Right, like the thumbnails.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Uh, even I used to not do like the flipping back
and forth between people talking.
And then I was like, okay, I'mgoing to start taking the time,
cause I like the way that looksbetter and so, yeah, it's just
one of those things that youjust consistently get better.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Instead of just trying to have it be perfect
from the get go.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Right and be okay with it.
For me I've set up arequirement Sundays is my day
where I fully package all of mycontent that I want to post for
that week.
So on Monday I am not workingon anything that is scheduled to
be posted on Friday.
I do all my posting on Fridays.
(09:52):
I'm not working on anythingthat's scheduled to be posted on
Friday.
It's already scheduled like,hands off of it, because I get
to a point where I was just likeyou know a little bit more, a
little bit more, let me see whatI can do different.
Let me see what I can dodifferent.
Let me see what I can dodifferent.
But what that has also done is,in the meantime I really focus
(10:12):
with every episode, right,because I'm watching it, I'm
watching it, I'm listening to it, I've played it back two or
three times, and so I can seeareas where I can improve or
maybe something that I can do alittle bit different.
And then I'm able to work thatinto the editing process or the
post-editing process to reallyget closer to what I'm ideally
envisioning.
And I've kept the old episodes,I've kept the old content, and
(10:37):
I think that has been huge too,because then I can see the
progression.
So but yeah, that's that's.
That's a tangent, but I wantedto thank you for that because
you've been a huge catalyst forthat, you and my mom both, um,
who was just like, just go forit just go for it.
And and what I've learned is,it's not even at least for what
(10:59):
I'm doing.
I can't speak for everything,but at least for what I'm doing.
I believe that it is blessed byGod and I am just seeing the
fruits of that from people whocomment who say this really
helped me, this really touchedme, or who comment or DM and
they say I want more informationupon this right.
That means they're intrigued.
(11:20):
They're intrigued enough towant to study the word of God,
to really want to have thosekinds of God, to really want to
have those kind of biblicalconversations in biblical
communities.
So that's a huge deal, butyou're already doing that and to
me it's not only needed butit's helpful and encouraging to
people out there like me whohave a gift.
(11:42):
God is calling to use that gift, but we are scared of taking
that next step.
Here it is.
You took the step after stepafter step after step.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And your podcast focuses more on talking with
musicians and worship leaders,specifically.
Right, right so.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I'm a worship leader, and so my podcast really
centers on being a well, acreative well for worship
leaders and creatives, that isso, creatives anybody who is
doing anything Christian relatedin the Christian space, because
I think we all need to bepoured into.
I like to put it like this, andsince this is a Christian space
(12:24):
, I can use this term I believethat my assignment right now is
to the Levites.
My assignment right now is toserve those who are serving, and
I believe that God has equippedme to be able to do that, and
so my podcast from thedevotionals every week that drop
(12:44):
to upcoming podcast segmentslike Mic Drop Moments I told you
about that yesterday where I'mexplaining what Scripture, how
Scripture defines our worshipand what our worship should look
like based on Scripture.
New podcast segment also comingout flip that verse.
So I'm taking verses orpassages of scripture that we
(13:07):
misquote continuously.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Are they going to be read in context?
They are.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
That part they are going to be read in context.
I am not about the eisegesis ofthe text, which is applying
your subjective reality tobiblical text, but I'm about the
exegesis of the text which isputting that text in context.
And I like to be in the space.
So when I'm reading it, youknow the Bible is really no
(13:35):
different than that, although Ithink it's more important than
when I'm reading some otherfiction story.
Right, I like to put myself inthe place of the character.
I want to see through my eyeswhat the character is, seeing
through their eyes andexperiencing through their eyes.
So that, and just all of thelegal studies degree or minor
(13:59):
that I have, that I didn't useto go to law school that teaches
you how to dig into text andread over every word as if it's
important, because in the Bibleit is and figure out exactly
what's going on.
So I'm excited about it.
So, yeah, those, those, thosesegments.
As long as the devotionals thathave been going great, started
(14:20):
that back in May, officiallylaunched in in May the
devotional.
The devotional section, thedevotional section, yep and the
mic drop moments for the versessoon to come at the end of
August.
But yeah, it's been goingreally, really great.
(14:40):
Over 50,000 eyeballs have seencontent that I put out and I
expect it and I would have beenperfectly fine with 500.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, that's what everybody says.
It's easy to say that you wouldhave been perfectly fine with
500.
Yeah, that's what everybodysays.
It's easy to say that you wouldhave been fine with 500 when
you're getting like 5,000 viewsor 50,000.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Is this?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
on TikTok or YouTube.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Through all platforms .
So TikTok and YouTube are thebiggest platforms right now, at
least for the show.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Dude, we could be honorary members of gen z
because we're popular on tiktokwe could be.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
We could be.
I thought about that and what'salso interesting and I think
this is probably a good pointfor us to talk about today the
engagement of uh gen z men, umon tiktok is ridiculous.
On youtube is like 50 50between women and men who watch
(15:31):
the show, but on tiktok over 70percent of viewers, um for my
videos are men between the agesof 18 and 35, between the ages
of 18 and 35.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Oh I think that camera just shut off.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Oh, why does it do that?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I don't know.
The battery might have been lowor something.
You got to get you a dummybattery.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, maybe we'll just have this one just be audio
.
Either way, it's up to you.
No, we got to have it be videobecause I'm going to repost it,
Okay is there?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, I can pause.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, we can pause, I can like figure it out.
And then you can edit it andpost edit.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I just need to know.
Never mind, I don't need toknow.
Why is it just done?
I don't know why I did that.
I charged it before you gothere and everything.
That iced tea show looked good.
(16:52):
I could just move this one sothat we're both in the shop.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
The phone it's up to you, it's your podcast, Because
this one's going to have tocharge.
Oh, it's one of those.
Well, I guess it can run on adummy battery right with it
plugged in.
Can it record?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
like that yeah, it can record when it's plugged in.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It must have been, that's so weird to charge it for
like an hour.
An hour.
Is it shooting in 4K?
No, oh, I don't do 4K becauseit's way too long to upload.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's true, it's a huge file okay, so we'll have a
little bit of back and forth,and then I mean, how long do you
think this episode's gonna be?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I need to be back by four, so yeah, so it's not gonna
be too long.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Okay, where were we?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
um.
We were with uh gen z men yestapping in, uh, on tiktok, and I
think that's that's extremelyinteresting, but it's for us,
for all, all people what I'mfinding is that generally,
christians just in general, andcurious minds in general because
there have been people who areliterally tuning into the show,
(18:14):
literally watching the clipsthey are saving and reposting it
who are atheists One guyreached out doesn't believe in
God.
He left a comment on TikTokabout.
I posted a clip about the peaceof God or something like that,
and he kind of pushed backagainst.
(18:35):
He didn't kind of.
He definitely pushed backagainst that and said you know,
the peace of God doesn't comewith God.
I'm an atheist and I have peacein my life and things of that
sort.
But the fact that he feels,first of all, welcome and
accepted to me is important,yeah, and he feels okay to be
(18:58):
able to do that.
And then, secondly, the factthat he's not the only one who
has reached out and said I don'tbelieve in God.
But I'm reposting this becauseI like the way that you put that
or I like what you said.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
So I mean I want saying are we preaching the
gospel as it's intended to be?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, that's a huge debate, right Because?
We know that when you preachthe gospel, you're going to get
persecuted, right.
So there are going to be peoplewho dislike you.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
And what I found, at least in my walk with Christ, is
I've been preaching and singingsince I was 16 years old.
Whoa, that's 15 years now.
What I have learned is that itis actually the church that can
be the most disinviting placefor spiritual development, and
(20:10):
that's counterintuitive, becausethe church is supposed to be
the central place for spiritualdevelopment, and here's what I
mean by that.
Only in the church have I everreceived no's and sit-down
notices and disinventationsbased not on a theological
(20:39):
difference, but based on anexternal habit.
Only in the church do I getthat.
I remember when I first startedsinging, I had a ring on this
hand.
I had a ring on this hand, Ihad a watch, I had a bracelet
and I had a cross around my neck.
(20:59):
You know how many people cameup to me and was like you need
to lose some of that jewelry.
Not the Lord is with you or not.
The Lord ain't with you, soplease don't sing again.
It had nothing to do with thetheological basis of what I was
singing or what I was up thereleading in.
(21:23):
It had nothing to do with theanointing.
It had nothing to do.
It had everything for them todo with jewelry.
And then from the jewelry, itwas my hair.
Your hair is too long.
Guys are not supposed to havethat kind of long hair, so maybe
you should cut that becausethat's distracting.
You mean, my hair is keepingyou from the Lord.
Yeah, so it's like.
(21:48):
But I say that to say not tobeat up upon the church or
anything like that, obviouslybecause I believe that I exist
right now to serve the church,but I say that to say in the
world.
Anytime I wanted to do thingsthat were destructive to me my
body, my health, my spirit.
The world encouraged it andthey then gave me the world.
(22:10):
They gave me the tools in orderto continue to do things that
was destructive to me, in orderto continue to do things that
was destructive to me, and Iwish, in church and religious
spaces, we did the 180.
If you want to come in with yourhat to the back, if you want to
come in with your pants sagging, if you want to come in with
(22:31):
your stripper outfit, if youwant to come in with your bad
credit, your bad attitude, ifyou want to come in with your
sick or your broken heart, Iwant you to be honest about it.
I want you to be open about it,and I wish the church would say
you know what.
We are here to cover you, weare here to protect you.
You ain't got it all together,neither do we.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
That's fair, but after attending church and
following the Lord, do you thinkthat those people will change
or should change?
Like what if it's a year or twodown the line and they're still
showing up in the stripperoutfit or whatever it is they
came in with Like there's got tobe some fruit, Because I'm all
(23:13):
for show up as you are, butdon't stay that way.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Right, no, no, I agree with that and that should
come from hearing the word.
Right Because.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I see you don't really have a bunch of jewelry
on no, even when you.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
But it has nothing to do with the theological stance.
Now it's more so because I justdon't like to wear a lot of
jewelry.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Right, but do you think that over the course of
time, like hearing the Word andfollowing Christ?
Maybe it was like, hey, maybe Ishould just kind of give this
up because I don't really needit it is a little bit flashy.
You don't think so.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
No, I do believe in where you're going With my
specific instance.
There's nothing in the Biblethat preaches for or against men
wearing jewelry.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
No, I'm not saying that there's anything against
men wearing jewelry.
No, I'm not saying that there'sanything against men wearing
jewelry.
I just think that sometimes itcan come off as flashy for
anybody, right?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
So that is, for me, what I've learned to avoid
Anything that's very flashy oranything that can be distracting
to the people, obviously thatI'm trying to lead in worship.
Yeah, that can be distractingto the people, obviously that
I'm trying to lead in worship.
So on the basis of that, that,I figured, well, maybe I can use
less jewelry.
(24:24):
And then it became more so forme, just like, well, I'm getting
older and I don't want allthose rings on my finger, I
don't want a whole lot of stuffon me, especially when it get
hot.
That's just not me Now.
If that's you know.
If that's you, that's you.
But for get hot, that's justnot me Now, if that's you,
that's you.
But for me at least.
But I will say to your pointyes, you go to church, you come
as you are, but you should notleave the way you came.
(24:44):
That a relationship with God,and that's the important thing
relationship.
God is not just after yourhabits, he's not after the
things that you show otherpeople but, God is after your
heart and it's after a genuineheart change that your habits
then start to change, and whatwe do in the church because we
(25:07):
cannot see your heart but we cansee your habits.
That's what we tend to focus on, and I mean the Big C Church.
We tend to focus on what yourhabits are.
So you can sing for us becauseI don't know you live in an
adultery.
But you can't sing for usbecause I do know and I saw on
(25:28):
your Facebook you part of theLGBTQ plus community.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah.
I would say that is a a biggerproblem.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, you'll cut.
You'll cut me my check, eventhough I don't take care of my
kids, uh-oh.
But you refuse to invite me outif I openly disagree with the
theological stance of the church.
Come on now.
Come on.
So I think again, we tend tofocus because we can't see your
(26:01):
heart.
We tend to focus on habits, butto your point, god will change
your habits, but it first startswith a personal relationship
with Christ.
That changes your heart, andthen you won't have a desire to
do.
You would desire the things ofGod, you would desire a
relationship with God and thenanything that gets in the way of
(26:24):
that relationship between youand God, those are the things
that you would start not todesire, and to me that's
important.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I think sometimes you still do desire them.
But oh 100%.
You just know that they'rewrong now and it's just like
kind of a struggle.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
The one.
I think I love God, obviouslyfor many reasons.
There's one thing about Godthat sometimes I just don't like
.
If I can be honest, I can befully open and transparent and
honest.
God is a jealous God, and so Ilike the fact that God would
ride for me.
You mess with me his son, god,go ride for me.
(27:06):
What I don't like is that God isa jealous God.
So then, anything that I putbetween God and I, any house
that I build that tries to keepme from the eyes of God, just
like God would ride for meagainst somebody else, god would
ride for me against myself.
(27:26):
He will tear down the statuesthat you build.
He'll get rid of the houses andthe boards that you try to put
up between you and God.
God is just that jealous.
When we sing the song, he isjealous for me.
It's not just, at least for me.
I'm not just grateful about thefact that he will leave the 99
(27:47):
and come after me, but I'mgrateful that I'll be right
there with the rest of the 99watching TV distracted.
I'll be with the 99 doing myown thing, and God is so jealous
of that that he's willing tochastise me and say no, no, no,
(28:07):
no and, if need be, he's willingto remove whatever it is that I
try to put between Him and I,and I love that about God.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I try to put between him and I, and I love that.
About God.
Yeah, I was just going to sayif God's the creator of all
things and he knows where we aremost satisfied at and that's
with him, so the jealousy thingmight not be so bad in this case
.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
No, no, no.
It has definitely worked out,because I can tell you that
there are some opportunities,there's some doors, there's some
relationships that I would havewalked right in because it felt
good in the moment and Ithought it was good.
But then that opportunity, thatrelationship, that door became
my idol.
(28:51):
And how many times have Godremoved those idols out of my
life?
And how many times have Godremoved those idols out of my
life?
I realized the past maybe threeto four years, maybe even five
years this season of my life hasall been about idols and we
don't think that idols are whatwe create.
(29:12):
We usually think that idols isthe golden calf.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
We think that idols is the thing that I call God.
That is not God, but idols toGod is simply anything that you
put next to him or above him.
That's your idol.
So not only can your car beyour idol, but your own ambition
can be your idol.
Your own thought process can beyour idol.
But your own ambition can beyour idol.
(29:39):
Your own thought process can beyour idol when you are
confident in your ability toprovide for your family more
than you trust God's provisionfor your family.
That's an idol, and God willshow you who's God.
First he will warn you.
First comes a warning and thencomes destruction, comes a
(30:02):
reconciliation moment or anopportunity for reconciliation,
like.
You've got to learn how to takethat.
But anyways, I don't know howwe got up on this topic, but
this season has been a season ofidols for me.
Where God has been getting ridof those.
So yes, through a personalrelationship with Jesus Christ.
Where God has been getting ridof those.
So yes, through a personalrelationship with Jesus Christ,
your heart will be exposed.
You cannot look at a holy Godand not see the unholiness and
(30:25):
unworthiness in yourself, right,and so that will be exposed.
And as you build yourrelationship with God.
He will change your habits, butit is not up to the church to
change your habits.
So, yes, if you showing up tochurch a year later in your
stripper outfit, it is what itis.
The question that I have ishave you built your relationship
(30:48):
with God?
Now, I can know the fruits ofthat because I can clearly see
that.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
But you know there was actually one do you think
that after time the churchshould hold people accountable?
A little bit with that I think,like hey, we noticed that you
know, you showed up with thisdrug problem and a year later
you still got this drug problem.
So what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, no, I think there has to be a community of
people to walk alongside andactually do life with people.
There was one before I touch onthat.
There was one girl back inDetroit, born and raised in
Detroit.
So there was one lady back inDetroit and she was a prostitute
.
She came into the church, shegot saved.
And she got saved in the sameoutfit that she was wearing out
(31:39):
up on the street and she wascoming to church week after week
, I mean Sunday after Sunday.
She was coming to church and allof a sudden, you know, some
time went by and everybody like,well, why is she still wearing
her prostitute, like the Lordain't doing nothing in her life?
Well, it literally just tooksomebody walking her to the side
and asking her hey, what'sgoing on, why you still got your
(32:00):
prostitute outfit.
And you know what she said.
She said these are all theclothes I got.
It wasn't that she didn't wantto change.
She said this is all I got.
And then, of course you know,we went out and bought her some
clothes and then she never worethat prostitute outfit again.
So it's just like you know,when you do life with people,
when you have a community ofpeople that you're doing life
(32:23):
with.
They can see that.
And then I think the church'sresponsibility is to provide for
those hands and feet needs ofpeople and give them that
opportunity, give them thatresource, and then they get out
of that.
Then there's a change, then yousee the shift.
But to stand back and say, oh,you walked in here and you was
on Coke last year, but you'restill on Coke now, okay, well,
(32:45):
addiction takes a long time.
Number one and number two arewe providing the resources that
they need in order to be better?
And maybe that resource is just, you know, a friend, a phone
call, right?
Maybe it's just you stopping by.
But whatever it is, are wedoing what is feasible, what's
in our ability to do, or not?
(33:06):
And if the answer is not, thenyou go ahead at drug problem.
So sorry to tell you, but yougo ahead at drug problem because
you're not around people whoreally care about your salvation
Fair.
That's what it boils down to whoreally care about your
salvation?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
All right, where were we before I asked that question
?
You have no idea.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Oh, no, no, no idea.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
You have no idea, oh no.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
No, no idea.
But yeah, we were talking aboutpeople being changed by Jesus
and having a heart for change.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yeah, and then that's when I asked do you think
churches should takeaccountability in that sense?
Oh, accountability.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Churches should hold you accountable.
We should hold each otheraccountable.
There's not only common senseto back that up, but there's
Bible to back up the church.
Holding each other accountable.
That's very important, and ifyou are not a part of a church
(34:11):
and I mean the big C church, forthat matter too, but if you're
not part of a local church thatis willing to hold you
accountable, then I'mquestioning your spiritual walk,
because if you were perfect, ifyou never do anything wrong, if
you never mess up, if you neverhave a bad thought, if you
(34:33):
never have a slip and fall, thenyou got to be Jesus.
So I'm trying to figure out whyJesus at one of these churches
and nobody told me you must bethe Messiah, if you ain't never
fallen short of the glory and ifyou don't have people around
you who are willing to hold youaccountable not talk about you,
(34:57):
not dog you out, but to justhold you accountable then I
really question your spiritualwalk.
To that point, though, we got alot of people who go to church,
and there is a fear, really,with the people that you go to
church with, because the Big CChurch we don't like to hold
(35:18):
each other accountable, but welike to point out each other's
flaws and mistakes.
That makes us look better.
Makes us look better.
I'm not going to talk about thefact that I lied when I can
easily talk about the fact thatsome pastor in North Carolina
got caught with a 13-year-oldgirl.
(35:40):
That's the juiciest story.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
I'm not laughing at the story.
I'm just laughing at the wayyou're telling it.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Because that's how it is If we spoke plain English
with each other sometimes.
Because that's how it is If wespoke plain English with each
other sometimes I don't speakplain English.
I speak Ebonics, but you knowwhat I mean.
If we spoke the facts to eachother just like that, then
that's how every conversationwould go we would have to get up
and preach.
I'm not going to talk about thefact that I slipped up, that I
(36:06):
sinned this week, because I wantto talk about this bigger sin,
about this person across townespecially if they're a pastor,
especially if they're worshipleader because I don't want
people to come up in here, andthe only way people come up in
here and see me as valid is ifthey see you as invalid.
So I'm going to do everythingin my power to make sure that
(36:29):
your sins are properly exposed.
But we don't like to hold eachother accountable.
We just like to expose otherpeople, which is why right, if
we ever notice every time wehold somebody.
It's so much easier to exposeother people, yes, and it's a
lot more fun.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Because you get a lot more views People we love the
conversation.
There's a lot more fun becauseyou get a lot more views People
we love the conversation.
There's a lot more engagementwhen you are exposing people
than it is when you are holdingthem accountable.
So I understand why.
I mean, I'm a Christian.
I love the Lord and the Lord behaving to work on me because I
(37:07):
will watch the Real Housewives.
I'm just being honest, shame.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I will watch love and Hip Hop.
Bigger shame.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
And I will be up to date On everything that's going
on On Love and Hip Hop and RealHousewives of Atlanta.
I know what's going on Now.
I don't know who dad around theworld.
I didn't even know OzzyOsbourne Dad the other day.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, that's just like everybody's obsessed with
that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I had no idea, crazy billboards and everything.
I had no idea, but let me tellyou what's going on on Love Hip
Hop though.
So it's like you know, we don'tlike to hold each other
accountable.
We like to expose other peopleand we get the views, we get the
clicks, we get the ratings, weget the people applauding us for
(38:00):
exposing.
But if you ever notice, anytimea Christian pastor or worship
leader is exposed in the name ofholding them accountable, we
never actually bring them backin the fold, like once the
pastor done slipped up and thenhad an extramarital affair.
He gonna always be a cheaterand he can't never preach to us
(38:22):
again.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Well, he should more than likely stick to the
congregation for a while.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yeah, I mean that's what I would say you can sit
down for a while.
Yeah, I mean, that's what Iwould say you can sit down for a
while so you can get your liferight, get your family right.
But then the wife be done,moved on.
God be done, moved on.
Kids done, forgot about it.
He ready to preach.
It's been 20 years and we stillhold that over his head shame
on me because I can't.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
I don't know the verse by memory, but there is
one that says pastors should beabove reproach.
You got that right.
So like they shouldn't be, no,shouldn't have like a scandalous
background.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Like me personally, with like all my whole life, I
would not want to be a pastor.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
No, me neither.
Being a pastor does not soundlike a fun job.
My point is, though, having theroom and the opportunity to
forgive people.
Now, I'm not saying that onceyou slip as a pastor, you got to
be a pastor again.
That's not what I'm saying.
What I am saying is I am notgoing to miss out on what God is
pouring out from you becauseyou are human.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, but sometimes I do preach absolute heresy like
come on, kenneth, copeland,let's be real.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I mean, yeah, if you're, yeah, you know for a
long time.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
There's some that are just like say something dumb
and it's like okay, but there'sother ones that, like we do need
to be warned about.
Yes, because there's a lot ofpeople who are following what
they're saying, who arebelieving that this is
christianity and it just simplyisn't it's's not.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's not and it's repetitive.
So that's different.
Like if you got a remorsefulheart, a repentant heart, that's
different.
You could be held accountable,we can cover you and we can
bring you back into the fold.
But if your sin is exposed, butthen you double down upon that
and and then you continue togrow from that and then
everybody else becomes wrongbecause you're wrong, that's
(40:13):
different.
Yeah, no, no, no, you're not.
We're trying to hold youaccountable, but there's no
remorse.
There's no remorse for harm.
Don't let me get up on thetangent with that.
But that's the reason why Iain't going to name no names,
but somebody that we all knowwho was in high public office.
That's why they are hated asmuch as they do.
(40:37):
It ain't got nothing to do withthe policies.
It ain't got nothing to do.
Well, I guess it does sometimeshave something to do with the
policies, but it's more so.
There's no remorse and it'slike yes, I've been caught in a
lie, yes, I've been caught wrong, but I'm not sorry and what I
said is true, although you know,we all know it's a lie, but
what I said is true anyway.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I don't think you could be more obvious as to who
you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I mean, if the shoe fit, if the shoe fit, tie it up
and put it on oh man.
Side note unrelated Release theEpstein files.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, see, I knew it.
I agree, though that was on ourlast episode.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
What's going on with that?
You're supposed to know moreabout it than me, because I
don't follow the stuff You'resupposed to know about it.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I don't follow a lot of politics either.
I've followed that story alittle bit.
There's a lot of conservativescalling that out yeah, about how
is there they're not releasingit.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I mean is it conservatives, like we know?
Like tucker carlson oh, that'sa big conservative yeah a lot of
people follow him Trump notgoing to be happy about this.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
I don't think so.
I think even like some peopleon the Daily Wire, like Michael
Knowles was saying somethingabout it.
I don't remember, I've justseen it in like mostly comments.
Benny Johnson, who's anotherbig conservative voice you might
not know is calling it out, butthe reality is he's probably on
it.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Who on?
Speaker 2 (42:11):
it Trump.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Wait, we're not naming names, but.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I mean, we know who up on that list.
Okay, here's my theory, though.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Because he ran his campaign on.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
On releasing the Epstein Files.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Like destroying the elite class basically.
Right, right, and so then nowyou're not doing that.
It's like it can really onlymean one thing Right, and we
know they got the list, they gotthe list.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
They got the list.
They've been telling us aboutthis list.
They done hyped it up.
I was so prepared for it.
I don't care for politics atthis point in my life, but the
Epstein list was definitely onmy radar and I was waiting for
the ball to drop.
Oh, we finna get them today, sothat list drop is over and then
they time out.
The list don't exist.
After the attorney general saidthat the list was on her desk a
(42:59):
couple of months ago and now itdon't exist.
So but honestly, this is mytrue, true opinion Nothing for
or against Donald Trump.
I do not think Biden or Trump ison the list.
I do think that there are somevery big moneymakers on the list
(43:26):
, on the list, and those bigmoneymakers are not going to
allow this list to ever see thelight of day.
So I don't care if a Democratwas in the White House or
Republican was in the WhiteHouse, that list would never see
the light of day.
Assuming that it exists,because at this point we've just
(43:46):
been assuming, based on whatTrump and his campaign has said,
that this list exists, andbeing that Trump was best
friends with Epstein, I thoughtthat this is actually one thing
that I can believe.
So yeah, assuming that the listexists, then I think there's
(44:11):
some very powerful people whowill not let that list come to
light.
I, at least, don't want to beresponsible for bringing that
list to light, and that's allI'm going to say about that,
because I don't want to have amysterious car accident.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah, neither do I.
Okay, last question that we canend this on doesn't have to be
a long answer.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
I'm going to give you a long answer.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
I know.
That's why I said it doesn'tneed to be a long answer, so
that it will be shorter thanOkay.
Well, actually it's up to you,because you're the one that has
to go.
Do you believe that people canget to a point in life where
they no longer sin?
Speaker 1 (44:48):
No, no, no, no.
I think the stereotypicalthought or I shouldn't speak for
everybody, For me at least,when I see older folks,
especially in the church they'vebeen serving Jesus a long time
(45:12):
I automatically think they don'tsin, Like they ain't got no sin
in their lives, ain't got nosin in their heart.
But I don't think that there isa point where you are
completely free of sin.
I do think there is a point inlife, maybe later in life, where
(45:36):
you are not as tempted as youwere when you were younger, but
I don't think there's a pointwhere you just don't do that.
And then I also think it has todo a lot with both capabilities
and friends that you are aroundor the people that you hang
(45:57):
around.
Because I remember in collegesaying I'm never fornicating
again, and as soon as I matchedwith somebody I was fornicating,
and after that I was saying I'mnever doing that again because
I want to follow Christ.
And then the people that I'mhanging around were saying oh,
that's all right, it's not thatbig of a deal, it's not that bad
(46:17):
.
But I think as you age,especially when you are a Bible
believer, when you are walkingwith Christ and you do life with
a community of people who walkwith Christ, who can then hold
you accountable, whether yourconversation, your meditation is
on Christ.
I do think you get to a pointwhere the temptations are not as
(46:40):
great as they were, but no, Idon't think that you are just
out existing on a whole day andyou don't sin Fair enough.
I think, if you pray forrepentance just before you go to
sleep and then you know you getall that out the way and then
(47:02):
you get up in the morning you doit again, you have devotions
with God and then you go tobrush your teeth, I think at
that moment, when you're washingyour face and you brush your
teeth, you can say I've beensaved all day long, but by
lunchtime you probably had torepent it again.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Okay.
Fair answer, and it reallywasn't that long either.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
See, look at that, you got another question.
You should just ask me anotherquestion.
It's a freebie.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
No, I don't have anything left.
Got a nice like 50 minutes in.
Who, 50 minutes?
We've been talking for 50minutes.
Okay, it's at 4836.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
You lying Time is too fast.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Well, when you're in good company.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
There we go.
You're a good company.
Anyways, thank you for havingme on.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yes, thanks for coming.
Thanks again for your just doit attitude and inspiring me to
get mine done, and I'm sureyou'll leave my links in the yes
, I was going to say mentionwhat your podcast name is so
people can find it.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
It's called the Lo and Behold Podcast, so you can
find it on YouTube and on tiktokspelled lo yep, lo and behold
podcast.
Okay, so it's a play on low,because I'm lawrence low, you
get it yeah, I get it all right.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Thanks everybody for listening.
Have a blessed week.
Bye, love you.
Go up, go up, go up, go up, go.
Hey, go up, go up, go up, go up.
We've got the same problemEthan does, because I'm getting
close to how it was.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
Really, yeah, Ethan's will be loud and then I'll turn
it down.
He's like go up, go up, andthen it'll be about where it was
.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
And he's like that's great Interesting.
That's probably what happens atchurch too.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
I think it's because people got to get used to it or
something.
Yeah, this morning the soundwas bad for me, I don't really
know why.
Like in the in-ear monitors, Ijust couldn't get it right.
I couldn't get the right levels.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Sometimes that happens.
Very weird, unexplainable.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yeah, normally it's spot on, but every so often
today I could not hear the click, even when I had them turn it
up.
I just couldn't keep track ofit.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
I'm pretty sure I probably have hearing damage
because of how loud I would havethe click when I would play
there, and then I would alsohave the drums blasting as well.
Yeah.
So it's just like I rememberthat they told me that I had to
turn my click down because itwas picking up in my in-ears to
the singer's mic, exactly, yeah,there'll be some people like
(01:15):
that.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
I have all of the music down.
I have click a little bit ofthe track and vocals in my ear.
A little bit of the track andvocals in my ear.
So when every time a guitarplayer comes up to me and be
like dang man, I'm so sorry formessing up.
Did you hear me mess up?
I'll be like I you did fine doyou?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
do you have any instruments that are just on
zero?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
all of them okay, all of them um if, if I turn up an
instrument, it's the piano yeahor who are, you know, keys one,
whichever one that's what I'llhave.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
I'll usually have keys drums and click yep and
that was about it.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
I'd sometimes try to have drums, but of course it
always depends on who's drummingit always depends on, depends
on.
So I was when I lost clickduring the set this morning, or
during the first set thismorning.
I lost click um, and so I wasjust going with the drums yeah
(02:18):
but one of the hits were off andso that really screwed me up,
cause I'm like I don't, and itwas like one of those transition
points where we're going intothe next part of the song, so it
was crazy.
Oh, that's so much.
Speaker 2 (02:37):
Yeah, I didn't know where, I didn't know where that
was coming from, so I just mutedthat channel.
It must be that, mike.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Okay, that sounds so much more crisp.
Yes, all right, kelly, what youwant to talk about first.
Speaker 2 (02:50):
What's going on with the pink um, pink laptop well,
first of all, I've had that foryears now and because I'm
colorblind, I thought it was wasgold.
Speaker 1 (03:02):
Oh, I could see that.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Technically it's rose gold and.
I can't see the pink.
So when people always ask me,like, what's with the pink
laptop?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
I'm like man.
I you thought it was rose gold.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
I haven't even known that it was pink, so I'll just
be at the cafe with it and withthis pink laptop, and I never
knew it, so I don't know howmany people have judged me
throughout the years.
Speaker 1 (03:28):
I wasn't judging at all, I just thought it was an
interesting choice I feel likeit was a blue laptop.
Speaker 2 (03:33):
Would you have asked the same question?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
I would have asked that because I've never seen a
blue mac before.
That's number one, number two,um.
I feel like max.
This is gonna sound stupid, butwhen I think of max like the
laptop, I don't think likecreative or creator.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Um how dare you?
Speaker 1 (03:57):
I know the thing is when, for the mac desktop, when
I look at one of those, Iautomatically think creator,
like whoever's doing this,editing videos, they're a
podcaster, like they're somebodylike that.
But when I see a laptop, I justautomatically think somebody's
checking emails, somebody'swriting up documents.
You know, somebody just has itfor general use because it came
(04:22):
with their phone.
Speaker 2 (04:24):
Well, it didn't come with a phone, but I'll say that
it isn't the best for editingvideos.
It does work, though with howmuch RAM it has because, I think
it's only got eight gigs whenyou want 16.
But I'm also just editing somesimple conversation.
It's not like some art project,music video or something like
(04:47):
that.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
Got you.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
So I make it work.
Speaker 1 (04:50):
How long do you think it takes you to edit your
videos?
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Depends on how long the episode is.
If it's like an hour long, itmight take two or three hours,
because I go through and watchthe whole thing and then when
you're talking, I'll cut out myfootage of me so it just shows
you and once I'm talking, so itflips back and forth I see which
software do you use.
(05:15):
Then cap cut, cap cut okay, andthen, for if it's a really long
episode, say two hours or twoand a half I'll just pick
certain sections of like 30minutes and then have it just
like side by side.
Yeah, because I don't feel likegoing through the whole thing
and editing I don't think youreally need to no, no, not
(05:35):
coming.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
Okay, what you want to talk about today?
Speaker 2 (05:39):
you're the one that wanted to come on.
I thought you had all the yes,I had all the ideas I had all
the all of the ideas.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
First of all, I want to say I didn't tell you this
yesterday because I didn't wantyou to get to be here.
I'm just playing.
That's a joke that we, we setup on my podcast.
Pastor david was on my podcastthe other day and he had he had
mentioned something like that.
It's like we say nice thingsabout people when they die, but
we always scared, always scaredto say it while they're here,
(06:06):
and his joke was he had askedthem why do you feel so
comfortable saying the nicethings when they die but you
don't say nice things whenthey're alive?
And the person's response isusually because I didn't want
them to get the big head, andthat's so us.
That's so us Like now, I didn'twant you to get the big head
(06:29):
yesterday when we had breakfast,but I wanted to tell you that
this, first of all, isincredible.
Like what you're doing withyour podcast, what you're doing
with your platform is incredibleand it has literally inspired
me to do what I'm doing.
We talked, probably since we'veknown each other, about
(06:51):
podcasting and both doing whatwe're doing in our different
realms and for the most part,the whole entire time, I've been
trying to get everything right,trying to get everything that I
thought needed to be in placein order to launch, only to then
get everything in place that Ithink need to be in place in
order to launch, and then launch.
(07:12):
And then, next thing, you know,I need to change everything
because nothing works the waythat it should have.
But through that process, rightme, getting my podcast off the
ground was literally an addedyear.
It was almost 12 months ofadded time, whereas you were
(07:36):
just like I think I want tostart a podcast.
So boom.
And then I remember asking you Iwas like what do you set up?
Do you do any post edits?
Do you have this, do you havethat?
And you're like, no, I justpost.
And I think that that'sincredible.
So that has definitely been acatalyst, at least for me, in
(07:56):
lighting the fire, keeping thefire up under my feet, to just
go with it, just go with it.
And as I've done that, whatI've realized is all of the
stuff that I was trying to getinto place really don't work for
what I'm doing anyway.
And then, actually doing it,I've been able to learn what
does work for me, what do I like, what do I not like what is the
(08:20):
audience looking for?
What are they not looking for?
Things of that sort.
But I've been able to really doit in the way that I really
wanted to do it once I gotstarted.
Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
And it it took, you know, a part of me just getting
rid of what my vision was for itin terms of visuals, in terms
of aesthetics.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And just focusing squarely on the content.
Um, because all of the visualsand aesthetics and things of
that sort have literally justworked itself out.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
Every episode is literally one percent better
than the last, because I'velearned something new yeah,
that's what all the podcastersand youtubers that I watch and
listen to would always say isjust like start and it will get
better because you'll startseeing what you're creating and
be like.
How can I make this better?
Speaker 1 (09:11):
Right.
Speaker 2 (09:12):
Right, like the thumbnails.
Speaker 1 (09:13):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Uh, even I used to not do like the flipping back
and forth between people talking.
And then I was like, okay, I'mgoing to start taking the time,
cause I like the way that looksbetter and so, yeah, it's just
one of those things that youjust consistently get better.
Speaker 1 (09:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
Instead of just trying to have it be perfect
from the get go.
Speaker 1 (09:32):
Right and be okay with it.
For me I've set up arequirement Sundays is my day
where I fully package all of mycontent that I want to post for
that week.
So on Monday I am not workingon anything that is scheduled to
be posted on Friday.
I do all my posting on Fridays.
(09:52):
I'm not working on anythingthat's scheduled to be posted on
Friday.
It's already scheduled like,hands off of it, because I get
to a point where I was just likeyou know a little bit more, a
little bit more, let me see whatI can do different.
Let me see what I can dodifferent.
Let me see what I can dodifferent.
But what that has also done is,in the meantime I really focus
(10:12):
with every episode, right,because I'm watching it, I'm
watching it, I'm listening to it, I've played it back two or
three times, and so I can seeareas where I can improve or
maybe something that I can do alittle bit different.
And then I'm able to work thatinto the editing process or the
post-editing process to reallyget closer to what I'm ideally
envisioning.
And I've kept the old episodes,I've kept the old content, and
(10:37):
I think that has been huge too,because then I can see the
progression.
So but yeah, that's that's.
That's a tangent, but I wantedto thank you for that because
you've been a huge catalyst forthat, you and my mom both, um,
who was just like, just go forit just go for it.
And and what I've learned is,it's not even at least for what
(10:59):
I'm doing.
I can't speak for everything,but at least for what I'm doing.
I believe that it is blessed byGod and I am just seeing the
fruits of that from people whocomment who say this really
helped me, this really touchedme, or who comment or DM and
they say I want more informationupon this right.
That means they're intrigued.
(11:20):
They're intrigued enough towant to study the word of God,
to really want to have thosekinds of God, to really want to
have those kind of biblicalconversations in biblical
communities.
So that's a huge deal, butyou're already doing that and to
me it's not only needed butit's helpful and encouraging to
people out there like me whohave a gift.
(11:42):
God is calling to use that gift, but we are scared of taking
that next step.
Here it is.
You took the step after stepafter step after step.
Speaker 2 (11:53):
And your podcast focuses more on talking with
musicians and worship leaders,specifically.
Right, right so.
Speaker 1 (12:02):
I'm a worship leader, and so my podcast really
centers on being a well, acreative well for worship
leaders and creatives, that isso, creatives anybody who is
doing anything Christian relatedin the Christian space, because
I think we all need to bepoured into.
I like to put it like this, andsince this is a Christian space
(12:24):
, I can use this term I believethat my assignment right now is
to the Levites.
My assignment right now is toserve those who are serving, and
I believe that God has equippedme to be able to do that, and
so my podcast from thedevotionals every week that drop
(12:44):
to upcoming podcast segmentslike Mic Drop Moments I told you
about that yesterday where I'mexplaining what Scripture, how
Scripture defines our worshipand what our worship should look
like based on Scripture.
New podcast segment also comingout flip that verse.
So I'm taking verses orpassages of scripture that we
(13:07):
misquote continuously.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Are they going to be read in context?
They are.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
That part they are going to be read in context.
I am not about the eisegesis ofthe text, which is applying
your subjective reality tobiblical text, but I'm about the
exegesis of the text which isputting that text in context.
And I like to be in the space.
So when I'm reading it, youknow the Bible is really no
(13:35):
different than that, although Ithink it's more important than
when I'm reading some otherfiction story.
Right, I like to put myself inthe place of the character.
I want to see through my eyeswhat the character is, seeing
through their eyes andexperiencing through their eyes.
So that, and just all of thelegal studies degree or minor
(13:59):
that I have, that I didn't useto go to law school that teaches
you how to dig into text andread over every word as if it's
important, because in the Bibleit is and figure out exactly
what's going on.
So I'm excited about it.
So, yeah, those, those, thosesegments.
As long as the devotionals thathave been going great, started
(14:20):
that back in May, officiallylaunched in in May the
devotional.
The devotional section, thedevotional section, yep and the
mic drop moments for the versessoon to come at the end of
August.
But yeah, it's been goingreally, really great.
(14:40):
Over 50,000 eyeballs have seencontent that I put out and I
expect it and I would have beenperfectly fine with 500.
Speaker 2 (14:45):
Yeah, that's what everybody says.
It's easy to say that you wouldhave been perfectly fine with
500.
Yeah, that's what everybodysays.
It's easy to say that you wouldhave been fine with 500 when
you're getting like 5,000 viewsor 50,000.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Is this?
Speaker 2 (14:54):
on TikTok or YouTube.
Speaker 1 (14:55):
Through all platforms .
So TikTok and YouTube are thebiggest platforms right now, at
least for the show.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Dude, we could be honorary members of gen z
because we're popular on tiktokwe could be.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
We could be.
I thought about that and what'salso interesting and I think
this is probably a good pointfor us to talk about today the
engagement of uh gen z men, umon tiktok is ridiculous.
On youtube is like 50 50between women and men who watch
(15:31):
the show, but on tiktok over 70percent of viewers, um for my
videos are men between the agesof 18 and 35, between the ages
of 18 and 35.
Speaker 2 (15:46):
Oh I think that camera just shut off.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Oh, why does it do that?
Speaker 2 (15:49):
I don't know.
The battery might have been lowor something.
You got to get you a dummybattery.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
Yeah, maybe we'll just have this one just be audio
.
Either way, it's up to you.
No, we got to have it be videobecause I'm going to repost it,
Okay is there?
Speaker 2 (16:02):
Well, I can pause.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Yeah, we can pause, I can like figure it out.
And then you can edit it andpost edit.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
I just need to know.
Never mind, I don't need toknow.
Why is it just done?
I don't know why I did that.
I charged it before you gothere and everything.
That iced tea show looked good.
(16:52):
I could just move this one sothat we're both in the shop.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
The phone it's up to you, it's your podcast, Because
this one's going to have tocharge.
Oh, it's one of those.
Well, I guess it can run on adummy battery right with it
plugged in.
Can it record?
Speaker 2 (17:09):
like that yeah, it can record when it's plugged in.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
It must have been, that's so weird to charge it for
like an hour.
An hour.
Is it shooting in 4K?
No, oh, I don't do 4K becauseit's way too long to upload.
Speaker 2 (17:27):
That's true, it's a huge file okay, so we'll have a
little bit of back and forth,and then I mean, how long do you
think this episode's gonna be?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I need to be back by four, so yeah, so it's not gonna
be too long.
Speaker 2 (17:50):
Okay, where were we?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
um.
We were with uh gen z men yestapping in, uh, on tiktok, and I
think that's that's extremelyinteresting, but it's for us,
for all, all people what I'mfinding is that generally,
christians just in general, andcurious minds in general because
there have been people who areliterally tuning into the show,
(18:14):
literally watching the clipsthey are saving and reposting it
who are atheists One guyreached out doesn't believe in
God.
He left a comment on TikTokabout.
I posted a clip about the peaceof God or something like that,
and he kind of pushed backagainst.
(18:35):
He didn't kind of.
He definitely pushed backagainst that and said you know,
the peace of God doesn't comewith God.
I'm an atheist and I have peacein my life and things of that
sort.
But the fact that he feels,first of all, welcome and
accepted to me is important,yeah, and he feels okay to be
(18:58):
able to do that.
And then, secondly, the factthat he's not the only one who
has reached out and said I don'tbelieve in God.
But I'm reposting this becauseI like the way that you put that
or I like what you said.
Speaker 2 (19:24):
So I mean I want saying are we preaching the
gospel as it's intended to be?
Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
Yeah, that's a huge debate, right Because?
We know that when you preachthe gospel, you're going to get
persecuted, right.
So there are going to be peoplewho dislike you.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:43):
And what I found, at least in my walk with Christ, is
I've been preaching and singingsince I was 16 years old.
Whoa, that's 15 years now.
What I have learned is that itis actually the church that can
be the most disinviting placefor spiritual development, and
(20:10):
that's counterintuitive, becausethe church is supposed to be
the central place for spiritualdevelopment, and here's what I
mean by that.
Only in the church have I everreceived no's and sit-down
notices and disinventationsbased not on a theological
(20:39):
difference, but based on anexternal habit.
Only in the church do I getthat.
I remember when I first startedsinging, I had a ring on this
hand.
I had a ring on this hand, Ihad a watch, I had a bracelet
and I had a cross around my neck.
(20:59):
You know how many people cameup to me and was like you need
to lose some of that jewelry.
Not the Lord is with you or not.
The Lord ain't with you, soplease don't sing again.
It had nothing to do with thetheological basis of what I was
singing or what I was up thereleading in.
(21:23):
It had nothing to do with theanointing.
It had nothing to do.
It had everything for them todo with jewelry.
And then from the jewelry, itwas my hair.
Your hair is too long.
Guys are not supposed to havethat kind of long hair, so maybe
you should cut that becausethat's distracting.
You mean, my hair is keepingyou from the Lord.
Yeah, so it's like.
(21:48):
But I say that to say not tobeat up upon the church or
anything like that, obviouslybecause I believe that I exist
right now to serve the church,but I say that to say in the
world.
Anytime I wanted to do thingsthat were destructive to me my
body, my health, my spirit.
The world encouraged it andthey then gave me the world.
(22:10):
They gave me the tools in orderto continue to do things that
was destructive to me, in orderto continue to do things that
was destructive to me, and Iwish, in church and religious
spaces, we did the 180.
If you want to come in with yourhat to the back, if you want to
come in with your pants sagging, if you want to come in with
(22:31):
your stripper outfit, if youwant to come in with your bad
credit, your bad attitude, ifyou want to come in with your
sick or your broken heart, Iwant you to be honest about it.
I want you to be open about it,and I wish the church would say
you know what.
We are here to cover you, weare here to protect you.
You ain't got it all together,neither do we.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
That's fair, but after attending church and
following the Lord, do you thinkthat those people will change
or should change?
Like what if it's a year or twodown the line and they're still
showing up in the stripperoutfit or whatever it is they
came in with Like there's got tobe some fruit, Because I'm all
(23:13):
for show up as you are, butdon't stay that way.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
Right, no, no, I agree with that and that should
come from hearing the word.
Right Because.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
I see you don't really have a bunch of jewelry
on no, even when you.
Speaker 1 (23:26):
But it has nothing to do with the theological stance.
Now it's more so because I justdon't like to wear a lot of
jewelry.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Right, but do you think that over the course of
time, like hearing the Word andfollowing Christ?
Maybe it was like, hey, maybe Ishould just kind of give this
up because I don't really needit it is a little bit flashy.
You don't think so.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
No, I do believe in where you're going With my
specific instance.
There's nothing in the Biblethat preaches for or against men
wearing jewelry.
Speaker 2 (23:56):
No, I'm not saying that there's anything against
men wearing jewelry.
No, I'm not saying that there'sanything against men wearing
jewelry.
I just think that sometimes itcan come off as flashy for
anybody, right?
Speaker 1 (24:03):
So that is, for me, what I've learned to avoid
Anything that's very flashy oranything that can be distracting
to the people, obviously thatI'm trying to lead in worship.
Yeah, that can be distractingto the people, obviously that
I'm trying to lead in worship.
So on the basis of that, that,I figured, well, maybe I can use
less jewelry.
(24:24):
And then it became more so forme, just like, well, I'm getting
older and I don't want allthose rings on my finger, I
don't want a whole lot of stuffon me, especially when it get
hot.
That's just not me Now.
If that's you know.
If that's you, that's you.
But for get hot, that's justnot me Now, if that's you,
that's you.
But for me at least.
But I will say to your pointyes, you go to church, you come
as you are, but you should notleave the way you came.
(24:44):
That a relationship with God,and that's the important thing
relationship.
God is not just after yourhabits, he's not after the
things that you show otherpeople but, God is after your
heart and it's after a genuineheart change that your habits
then start to change, and whatwe do in the church because we
(25:07):
cannot see your heart but we cansee your habits.
That's what we tend to focus on, and I mean the Big C Church.
We tend to focus on what yourhabits are.
So you can sing for us becauseI don't know you live in an
adultery.
But you can't sing for usbecause I do know and I saw on
(25:28):
your Facebook you part of theLGBTQ plus community.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
Yeah.
I would say that is a a biggerproblem.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Yeah, you'll cut.
You'll cut me my check, eventhough I don't take care of my
kids, uh-oh.
But you refuse to invite me outif I openly disagree with the
theological stance of the church.
Come on now.
Come on.
So I think again, we tend tofocus because we can't see your
(26:01):
heart.
We tend to focus on habits, butto your point, god will change
your habits, but it first startswith a personal relationship
with Christ.
That changes your heart, andthen you won't have a desire to
do.
You would desire the things ofGod, you would desire a
relationship with God and thenanything that gets in the way of
(26:24):
that relationship between youand God, those are the things
that you would start not todesire, and to me that's
important.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I think sometimes you still do desire them.
But oh 100%.
You just know that they'rewrong now and it's just like
kind of a struggle.
Speaker 1 (26:44):
The one.
I think I love God, obviouslyfor many reasons.
There's one thing about Godthat sometimes I just don't like
.
If I can be honest, I can befully open and transparent and
honest.
God is a jealous God, and so Ilike the fact that God would
ride for me.
You mess with me his son, god,go ride for me.
(27:06):
What I don't like is that God isa jealous God.
So then, anything that I putbetween God and I, any house
that I build that tries to keepme from the eyes of God, just
like God would ride for meagainst somebody else, god would
ride for me against myself.
(27:26):
He will tear down the statuesthat you build.
He'll get rid of the houses andthe boards that you try to put
up between you and God.
God is just that jealous.
When we sing the song, he isjealous for me.
It's not just, at least for me.
I'm not just grateful about thefact that he will leave the 99
(27:47):
and come after me, but I'mgrateful that I'll be right
there with the rest of the 99watching TV distracted.
I'll be with the 99 doing myown thing, and God is so jealous
of that that he's willing tochastise me and say no, no, no,
(28:07):
no and, if need be, he's willingto remove whatever it is that I
try to put between Him and I,and I love that about God.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I try to put between him and I, and I love that.
About God.
Yeah, I was just going to sayif God's the creator of all
things and he knows where we aremost satisfied at and that's
with him, so the jealousy thingmight not be so bad in this case
.
Speaker 1 (28:31):
No, no, no.
It has definitely worked out,because I can tell you that
there are some opportunities,there's some doors, there's some
relationships that I would havewalked right in because it felt
good in the moment and Ithought it was good.
But then that opportunity, thatrelationship, that door became
my idol.
(28:51):
And how many times have Godremoved those idols out of my
life?
And how many times have Godremoved those idols out of my
life?
I realized the past maybe threeto four years, maybe even five
years this season of my life hasall been about idols and we
don't think that idols are whatwe create.
(29:12):
We usually think that idols isthe golden calf.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:18):
We think that idols is the thing that I call God.
That is not God, but idols toGod is simply anything that you
put next to him or above him.
That's your idol.
So not only can your car beyour idol, but your own ambition
can be your idol.
Your own thought process can beyour idol.
But your own ambition can beyour idol.
(29:39):
Your own thought process can beyour idol when you are
confident in your ability toprovide for your family more
than you trust God's provisionfor your family.
That's an idol, and God willshow you who's God.
First he will warn you.
First comes a warning and thencomes destruction, comes a
(30:02):
reconciliation moment or anopportunity for reconciliation,
like.
You've got to learn how to takethat.
But anyways, I don't know howwe got up on this topic, but
this season has been a season ofidols for me.
Where God has been getting ridof those.
So yes, through a personalrelationship with Jesus Christ.
Where God has been getting ridof those.
So yes, through a personalrelationship with Jesus Christ,
your heart will be exposed.
You cannot look at a holy Godand not see the unholiness and
(30:25):
unworthiness in yourself, right,and so that will be exposed.
And as you build yourrelationship with God.
He will change your habits, butit is not up to the church to
change your habits.
So, yes, if you showing up tochurch a year later in your
stripper outfit, it is what itis.
The question that I have ishave you built your relationship
(30:48):
with God?
Now, I can know the fruits ofthat because I can clearly see
that.
Speaker 2 (30:55):
But you know there was actually one do you think
that after time the churchshould hold people accountable?
A little bit with that I think,like hey, we noticed that you
know, you showed up with thisdrug problem and a year later
you still got this drug problem.
So what's going on here?
Speaker 1 (31:17):
Yeah, no, I think there has to be a community of
people to walk alongside andactually do life with people.
There was one before I touch onthat.
There was one girl back inDetroit, born and raised in
Detroit.
So there was one lady back inDetroit and she was a prostitute
.
She came into the church, shegot saved.
And she got saved in the sameoutfit that she was wearing out
(31:39):
up on the street and she wascoming to church week after week
, I mean Sunday after Sunday.
She was coming to church and allof a sudden, you know, some
time went by and everybody like,well, why is she still wearing
her prostitute, like the Lordain't doing nothing in her life?
Well, it literally just tooksomebody walking her to the side
and asking her hey, what'sgoing on, why you still got your
(32:00):
prostitute outfit.
And you know what she said.
She said these are all theclothes I got.
It wasn't that she didn't wantto change.
She said this is all I got.
And then, of course you know,we went out and bought her some
clothes and then she never worethat prostitute outfit again.
So it's just like you know,when you do life with people,
when you have a community ofpeople that you're doing life
(32:23):
with.
They can see that.
And then I think the church'sresponsibility is to provide for
those hands and feet needs ofpeople and give them that
opportunity, give them thatresource, and then they get out
of that.
Then there's a change, then yousee the shift.
But to stand back and say, oh,you walked in here and you was
on Coke last year, but you'restill on Coke now, okay, well,
(32:45):
addiction takes a long time.
Number one and number two arewe providing the resources that
they need in order to be better?
And maybe that resource is just, you know, a friend, a phone
call, right?
Maybe it's just you stopping by.
But whatever it is, are wedoing what is feasible, what's
in our ability to do, or not?
(33:06):
And if the answer is not, thenyou go ahead at drug problem.
So sorry to tell you, but yougo ahead at drug problem because
you're not around people whoreally care about your salvation
Fair.
That's what it boils down to whoreally care about your
salvation?
Speaker 2 (33:25):
All right, where were we before I asked that question
?
You have no idea.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
Oh, no, no, no idea.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
You have no idea, oh no.
Speaker 1 (33:30):
No, no idea.
But yeah, we were talking aboutpeople being changed by Jesus
and having a heart for change.
Speaker 2 (33:37):
Yeah, and then that's when I asked do you think
churches should takeaccountability in that sense?
Oh, accountability.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Churches should hold you accountable.
We should hold each otheraccountable.
There's not only common senseto back that up, but there's
Bible to back up the church.
Holding each other accountable.
That's very important, and ifyou are not a part of a church
(34:11):
and I mean the big C church, forthat matter too, but if you're
not part of a local church thatis willing to hold you
accountable, then I'mquestioning your spiritual walk,
because if you were perfect, ifyou never do anything wrong, if
you never mess up, if you neverhave a bad thought, if you
(34:33):
never have a slip and fall, thenyou got to be Jesus.
So I'm trying to figure out whyJesus at one of these churches
and nobody told me you must bethe Messiah, if you ain't never
fallen short of the glory and ifyou don't have people around
you who are willing to hold youaccountable not talk about you,
(34:57):
not dog you out, but to justhold you accountable then I
really question your spiritualwalk.
To that point, though, we got alot of people who go to church,
and there is a fear, really,with the people that you go to
church with, because the Big CChurch we don't like to hold
(35:18):
each other accountable, but welike to point out each other's
flaws and mistakes.
That makes us look better.
Makes us look better.
I'm not going to talk about thefact that I lied when I can
easily talk about the fact thatsome pastor in North Carolina
got caught with a 13-year-oldgirl.
(35:40):
That's the juiciest story.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
I'm not laughing at the story.
I'm just laughing at the wayyou're telling it.
Speaker 1 (35:45):
Because that's how it is If we spoke plain English
with each other sometimes.
Because that's how it is If wespoke plain English with each
other sometimes I don't speakplain English.
I speak Ebonics, but you knowwhat I mean.
If we spoke the facts to eachother just like that, then
that's how every conversationwould go we would have to get up
and preach.
I'm not going to talk about thefact that I slipped up, that I
(36:06):
sinned this week, because I wantto talk about this bigger sin,
about this person across townespecially if they're a pastor,
especially if they're worshipleader because I don't want
people to come up in here, andthe only way people come up in
here and see me as valid is ifthey see you as invalid.
So I'm going to do everythingin my power to make sure that
(36:29):
your sins are properly exposed.
But we don't like to hold eachother accountable.
We just like to expose otherpeople, which is why right, if
we ever notice every time wehold somebody.
It's so much easier to exposeother people, yes, and it's a
lot more fun.
Speaker 2 (36:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:46):
Because you get a lot more views People we love the
conversation.
There's a lot more fun becauseyou get a lot more views People
we love the conversation.
There's a lot more engagementwhen you are exposing people
than it is when you are holdingthem accountable.
So I understand why.
I mean, I'm a Christian.
I love the Lord and the Lord behaving to work on me because I
(37:07):
will watch the Real Housewives.
I'm just being honest, shame.
Speaker 2 (37:10):
I will watch love and Hip Hop.
Bigger shame.
Speaker 1 (37:15):
And I will be up to date On everything that's going
on On Love and Hip Hop and RealHousewives of Atlanta.
I know what's going on Now.
I don't know who dad around theworld.
I didn't even know OzzyOsbourne Dad the other day.
Speaker 2 (37:32):
Yeah, that's just like everybody's obsessed with
that, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I had no idea, crazy billboards and everything.
I had no idea, but let me tellyou what's going on on Love Hip
Hop though.
So it's like you know, we don'tlike to hold each other
accountable.
We like to expose other peopleand we get the views, we get the
clicks, we get the ratings, weget the people applauding us for
(38:00):
exposing.
But if you ever notice, anytimea Christian pastor or worship
leader is exposed in the name ofholding them accountable, we
never actually bring them backin the fold, like once the
pastor done slipped up and thenhad an extramarital affair.
He gonna always be a cheaterand he can't never preach to us
(38:22):
again.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Well, he should more than likely stick to the
congregation for a while.
Speaker 1 (38:28):
Yeah, I mean that's what I would say you can sit
down for a while.
Yeah, I mean, that's what Iwould say you can sit down for a
while so you can get your liferight, get your family right.
But then the wife be done,moved on.
God be done, moved on.
Kids done, forgot about it.
He ready to preach.
It's been 20 years and we stillhold that over his head shame
on me because I can't.
Speaker 2 (38:47):
I don't know the verse by memory, but there is
one that says pastors should beabove reproach.
You got that right.
So like they shouldn't be, no,shouldn't have like a scandalous
background.
Speaker 1 (38:58):
Absolutely not.
Speaker 2 (38:58):
Like me personally, with like all my whole life, I
would not want to be a pastor.
Speaker 1 (39:02):
No, me neither.
Being a pastor does not soundlike a fun job.
My point is, though, having theroom and the opportunity to
forgive people.
Now, I'm not saying that onceyou slip as a pastor, you got to
be a pastor again.
That's not what I'm saying.
What I am saying is I am notgoing to miss out on what God is
pouring out from you becauseyou are human.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
Yeah, but sometimes I do preach absolute heresy like
come on, kenneth, copeland,let's be real.
Speaker 1 (39:32):
I mean, yeah, if you're, yeah, you know for a
long time.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
There's some that are just like say something dumb
and it's like okay, but there'sother ones that, like we do need
to be warned about.
Yes, because there's a lot ofpeople who are following what
they're saying, who arebelieving that this is
christianity and it just simplyisn't it's's not.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
It's not and it's repetitive.
So that's different.
Like if you got a remorsefulheart, a repentant heart, that's
different.
You could be held accountable,we can cover you and we can
bring you back into the fold.
But if your sin is exposed, butthen you double down upon that
and and then you continue togrow from that and then
everybody else becomes wrongbecause you're wrong, that's
(40:13):
different.
Yeah, no, no, no, you're not.
We're trying to hold youaccountable, but there's no
remorse.
There's no remorse for harm.
Don't let me get up on thetangent with that.
But that's the reason why Iain't going to name no names,
but somebody that we all knowwho was in high public office.
That's why they are hated asmuch as they do.
(40:37):
It ain't got nothing to do withthe policies.
It ain't got nothing to do.
Well, I guess it does sometimeshave something to do with the
policies, but it's more so.
There's no remorse and it'slike yes, I've been caught in a
lie, yes, I've been caught wrong, but I'm not sorry and what I
said is true, although you know,we all know it's a lie, but
what I said is true anyway.
Speaker 2 (40:59):
I don't think you could be more obvious as to who
you're talking about.
Speaker 1 (41:02):
I mean, if the shoe fit, if the shoe fit, tie it up
and put it on oh man.
Side note unrelated Release theEpstein files.
Speaker 2 (41:19):
Yeah, see, I knew it.
I agree, though that was on ourlast episode.
Speaker 1 (41:24):
What's going on with that?
You're supposed to know moreabout it than me, because I
don't follow the stuff You'resupposed to know about it.
Speaker 2 (41:29):
I don't follow a lot of politics either.
I've followed that story alittle bit.
There's a lot of conservativescalling that out yeah, about how
is there they're not releasingit.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
I mean is it conservatives, like we know?
Like tucker carlson oh, that'sa big conservative yeah a lot of
people follow him Trump notgoing to be happy about this.
Speaker 2 (41:54):
I don't think so.
I think even like some peopleon the Daily Wire, like Michael
Knowles was saying somethingabout it.
I don't remember, I've justseen it in like mostly comments.
Benny Johnson, who's anotherbig conservative voice you might
not know is calling it out, butthe reality is he's probably on
it.
Speaker 1 (42:10):
Who on?
Speaker 2 (42:11):
it Trump.
Speaker 1 (42:11):
Oh no.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
Wait, we're not naming names, but.
Speaker 1 (42:15):
I mean, we know who up on that list.
Okay, here's my theory, though.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Because he ran his campaign on.
Speaker 1 (42:22):
On releasing the Epstein Files.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
Like destroying the elite class basically.
Right, right, and so then nowyou're not doing that.
It's like it can really onlymean one thing Right, and we
know they got the list, they gotthe list.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
They got the list.
They've been telling us aboutthis list.
They done hyped it up.
I was so prepared for it.
I don't care for politics atthis point in my life, but the
Epstein list was definitely onmy radar and I was waiting for
the ball to drop.
Oh, we finna get them today, sothat list drop is over and then
they time out.
The list don't exist.
After the attorney general saidthat the list was on her desk a
(42:59):
couple of months ago and now itdon't exist.
So but honestly, this is mytrue, true opinion Nothing for
or against Donald Trump.
I do not think Biden or Trump ison the list.
I do think that there are somevery big moneymakers on the list
(43:26):
, on the list, and those bigmoneymakers are not going to
allow this list to ever see thelight of day.
So I don't care if a Democratwas in the White House or
Republican was in the WhiteHouse, that list would never see
the light of day.
Assuming that it exists,because at this point we've just
(43:46):
been assuming, based on whatTrump and his campaign has said,
that this list exists, andbeing that Trump was best
friends with Epstein, I thoughtthat this is actually one thing
that I can believe.
So yeah, assuming that the listexists, then I think there's
(44:11):
some very powerful people whowill not let that list come to
light.
I, at least, don't want to beresponsible for bringing that
list to light, and that's allI'm going to say about that,
because I don't want to have amysterious car accident.
Speaker 2 (44:23):
Yeah, neither do I.
Okay, last question that we canend this on doesn't have to be
a long answer.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
I'm going to give you a long answer.
Speaker 2 (44:32):
I know.
That's why I said it doesn'tneed to be a long answer, so
that it will be shorter thanOkay.
Well, actually it's up to you,because you're the one that has
to go.
Do you believe that people canget to a point in life where
they no longer sin?
Speaker 1 (44:48):
No, no, no, no.
I think the stereotypicalthought or I shouldn't speak for
everybody, For me at least,when I see older folks,
especially in the church they'vebeen serving Jesus a long time
(45:12):
I automatically think they don'tsin, Like they ain't got no sin
in their lives, ain't got nosin in their heart.
But I don't think that there isa point where you are
completely free of sin.
I do think there is a point inlife, maybe later in life, where
(45:36):
you are not as tempted as youwere when you were younger, but
I don't think there's a pointwhere you just don't do that.
And then I also think it has todo a lot with both capabilities
and friends that you are aroundor the people that you hang
(45:57):
around.
Because I remember in collegesaying I'm never fornicating
again, and as soon as I matchedwith somebody I was fornicating,
and after that I was saying I'mnever doing that again because
I want to follow Christ.
And then the people that I'mhanging around were saying oh,
that's all right, it's not thatbig of a deal, it's not that bad
(46:17):
.
But I think as you age,especially when you are a Bible
believer, when you are walkingwith Christ and you do life with
a community of people who walkwith Christ, who can then hold
you accountable, whether yourconversation, your meditation is
on Christ.
I do think you get to a pointwhere the temptations are not as
(46:40):
great as they were, but no, Idon't think that you are just
out existing on a whole day andyou don't sin Fair enough.
I think, if you pray forrepentance just before you go to
sleep and then you know you getall that out the way and then
(47:02):
you get up in the morning you doit again, you have devotions
with God and then you go tobrush your teeth, I think at
that moment, when you're washingyour face and you brush your
teeth, you can say I've beensaved all day long, but by
lunchtime you probably had torepent it again.
Speaker 2 (47:20):
Okay.
Fair answer, and it reallywasn't that long either.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
See, look at that, you got another question.
You should just ask me anotherquestion.
It's a freebie.
Speaker 2 (47:28):
No, I don't have anything left.
Got a nice like 50 minutes in.
Who, 50 minutes?
We've been talking for 50minutes.
Okay, it's at 4836.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
You lying Time is too fast.
Speaker 2 (47:43):
Well, when you're in good company.
Speaker 1 (47:45):
There we go.
You're a good company.
Anyways, thank you for havingme on.
Speaker 2 (47:50):
Yes, thanks for coming.
Thanks again for your just doit attitude and inspiring me to
get mine done, and I'm sureyou'll leave my links in the yes
, I was going to say mentionwhat your podcast name is so
people can find it.
Speaker 1 (48:07):
It's called the Lo and Behold Podcast, so you can
find it on YouTube and on tiktokspelled lo yep, lo and behold
podcast.
Okay, so it's a play on low,because I'm lawrence low, you
get it yeah, I get it all right.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
Thanks everybody for listening.
Have a blessed week.
Bye, love you.
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