33. Alcohol, Tobacco, and Other Vices. We Also Talk About Ethans Trail Expedition and The Dangers of The Charismatic Movement. With Ethan Schutter

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
How good do you think the wine was that Jesus made?
I was asked this question by apastor on Saturday when I was
hanging out with Lawrence andsome of the guys Because a
couple of the guys that we hangout with are pastors and one of
them was like dude, you justtotally asked that question on
the podcast.
It's an interesting question.

Speaker 2 (00:22):
Probably like $100 bottles.
That's it, yeah, yeah, I don'tknow?

Speaker 1 (00:30):
do you think that it could have been?
Do you think that there's winethat exists today that's better,
or do you think those stuffthat he made was the top notch?
It's never going to get betterthan that no, I think we make
better now.

Speaker 2 (00:43):
Yeah, no, I think we make better now.
Yeah, no, I just, uh, I don'tknow I.
Well, they say the choice winewas like really good, right in
that story back then yeah, inthe story they say it's like
why'd you guys bring out thewine after the good wine, after
we went through all the otherwine?
Usually you come at the endright, so it has to be really

(01:06):
good.

Speaker 1 (01:07):
Wait, you have the good wine first.

Speaker 2 (01:09):
Yeah, because you're sober.
You're sober, so you have thegood wine, and then you end with
the crappier wine because youdon't taste as much.

Speaker 1 (01:17):
So Jesus permitted not being sober.

Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
Yeah, it's crazy.
That is crazy.
Uh, I think it because I wasactually just tap, I was
actually just having thisdiscussion with somebody that I
work with.
It's like what is drunkenness?
Because, like in proverbs, itdoes say like a man drinks and

(01:44):
he's filled with joy, and itsays that as if it's like a good
thing.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
Yeah.
But then it's like non soberminded.

Speaker 1 (01:52):
So like blackout or like spinning.

Speaker 2 (01:55):
No, I mean, yeah, I think you could get like, if you
don't drink often, you couldhave two beers and be drunk.

Speaker 1 (02:02):
But is that a sin?
Uh, be drunk, but is that a sin, like if it's a special
occasion type thing and you justkind of get that buzz going?
Is that necessarily like a badthing?
Hmm, I scratched my chin, Idon't know.

Speaker 2 (02:19):
I don't know.
I would say yes, because you'renot sober minded and God calls
us to more than that, but Idon't think it's like a sin
against somebody else, it's morelike a sin against yourself.
You know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yeah, I just know, because it says don't partake in
drunkenness, as if like.
I wonder if it's something thatmeans like don't do it all the
time, but if you do it as like acelebratory thing, I'm not
advocating for that, I'm justwondering if that's what it
means, that's an interestingtheory.

(02:55):
Very thought.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (03:00):
It's also a good excuse If you're somebody who
yeah, stop making excuses.

Speaker 2 (03:05):
Be better, you'll be better.
It's also a good excuse Ifyou're somebody who, yeah, stop
making excuses for your life, bebetter, you be better, hold on
let me crack this Red Bull.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
You already gotta say it.
What Crack?
A cold one with the boys.
Oh, cold one with the boys.
You didn't even say crack one,but I'm gonna pass.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Okay.
Got to have some.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
How are you able to drink?

Speaker 2 (03:37):
that so late?
I don't know, I just bought it,it's 6 o'clock.

Speaker 1 (03:39):
I would be up all night.

Speaker 2 (03:43):
Yeah, I'll be fine.
I can't't do that I usuallystay up pretty late.
Now like what's late, 11, 12yeah, that's.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
that's pretty late, but if I drink an americano
yesterday at 2 pm and I was uptill 3 30 this morning morning,
so I barely got any sleep.

Speaker 2 (04:03):
What'd you do with your extra time?

Speaker 1 (04:06):
Laid there and tried to go to sleep.
Nothing yeah it just didn'twork out.
You know one of those things Ican probably have.

Speaker 2 (04:15):
yeah, I can have that and be totally fine.
I mean maybe a little bit laterthan normal, but not much.

Speaker 1 (04:25):
And you'll still fall asleep around 11 or midnight.
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 2 (04:32):
And I drove all day cause I was trying to like pick
myself up a little bit.
I drove like from 12 until six.

Speaker 1 (04:39):
Do you get tired after driving for a while?

Speaker 2 (04:42):
Yeah, your mind does, cause it's just mindless, you
know.

Speaker 1 (04:46):
Yeah, I've noticed that when I go and drive for
work to the east side of thestate, always on the way back I
got to stop at a rest stop andjust sit there or lay there and
take like a nap A little sleepy,a little sleepy.

Speaker 2 (05:00):
Yeah, a little sleepy .

Speaker 1 (05:01):
A little sleepy.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Yeah, but then, oh, I was going to tell you.
Well, I already did tell you,but my last, I'll tell you again
.
My last drive, like what isthat?
You have a bobblehead ofyourself.

Speaker 1 (05:21):
No, everybody thinks that it's a pop figure of Sting.
Oh the singer.
From who the Police?

Speaker 2 (05:33):
Andy got that for me.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
But he got it for me because he thinks it looks like
me.

Speaker 2 (05:39):
Blonde hair and it's a bass Kind of a neat little
trinket to have sitting there.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
And it's gay.
You know, I'm just kidding.
Wow, it is very happy you'reright.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
Yep.
Anyways, back to the story.
Yes, I was giving my last rideand this lady had a stop at
Popeye's and usually there'slike a timer, so I can wait like
five minutes.
Sorry, I'm talking about liftdriving.

Speaker 1 (06:07):
if, if you didn't know right is do you drop her
off there for her to get food?

Speaker 2 (06:13):
yeah, she goes in, she gets food, okay, and so I
even started the timer like late.
Um, like I let her go in andthen I started the timer.
So it was like already like ahalf a minute late and I waited
five minutes.
And then I was like, well, Ican wait a little bit longer.
So I waited like two moreminutes, so seven minutes at
this time, this point, and I canwait five minutes and then just

(06:36):
cancel the ride and still getpaid for that ride.

Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:40):
So after seven minutes I was like, yeah, I'm
out of here, I'm not waitingLike.
So after seven minutes I waslike, yeah, I'm out of here, I'm
not waiting.
Like I got to go, you know likeyou should have ordered it
beforehand, or what becomes?

Speaker 1 (06:50):
of the person who went into Popeye's.

Speaker 2 (06:53):
They stay there forever.
They have to order another rideto wherever they were going.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
What if they order another one and then you pull up
again?

Speaker 2 (07:04):
That could happen, like it's possible, but I turned
off my app because I knew I wascoming here, yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:12):
There's no way you were being late to this.

Speaker 2 (07:14):
No.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Exactly.

Speaker 2 (07:16):
Oh, I got another story.
Can I tell another story?
Of course, okay, I was Lyftdriving the other day and this
is the first time this has everhappened.

Speaker 1 (07:26):
I, um, I was Lyft driving the other day, and this
is the first time this has everhappened.
I told somebody to get out ofmy vehicle.

Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, okay, what happened?
So she comes up, she has like aWalker or whatever and I'm like
, yeah, you know, whatever, likeI can put that in my trunk.
I asked her like three timeshey, do you want me to put this
in the trunk, like I want tomake?
Sure she wants it in the trunkand she's like, oh, let me grab
my purse, whatever.
I'm like, okay, yeah, whatever,it doesn't matter.
And then she like looks at meand she's like, can we stop and

(07:56):
get somewhere to eat?
Like really snooty, like right.

Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, was she older.

Speaker 2 (07:59):
Yeah, she was like 45 .
Okay, so like not super, superold, but 45 or 50 middle-aged
yeah, um, and then she was like,and I was like, like, no, I
can't, I can't stop unless, likeyou, add it to the list yeah
like I have to go all the waythere, like I can't stop, and

(08:20):
she's like, oh, then I'll juststarve then.
And she like opens my door andgets in and she still didn't
answer my question like, do youwant this in the in the car?
And this is like late night,like 12 30.
I was driving late but I waslike like I, I made a decision
right there.
I was about to like lift it upand put it in the trunk, but

(08:41):
then I was like no, I'm, I'm nottaking this lady.
Like if you're that rude off thebat, I'm not taking you yeah,
so I took the walker and put itlike, back on the sidewalk, got
in my car and she makes anothercomment.
She's like.
She's like, yeah, I'll juststart.
She said the same like phraseagain like I'll just starve,
like whatever, I don't need food.

(09:01):
And I was like, yeah, you canget out of my car now.
Like, just like that like.
And I said it twice.
I like, yeah, you can get outof my car now.
Like, just like that like.
And I said it twice.
I was like you can get out ofmy car.
Like I'm not taking you.
And I canceled the ride,obviously because I'm not gonna
like take her money right orwhatever.

Speaker 1 (09:17):
And what was her?

Speaker 2 (09:17):
response to that, she was like I need my walk because
she thought I put it in her, myback, and I was like it's right
there, it's right there, it'sright there, you can go get it.
And it's not.
You know, maybe she thinks it'sbecause of the walk or whatever
, or because she's disabled, butthat's not what it is.
It's like if you're super rudeto me for no reason.

Speaker 1 (09:39):
Especially right off the bat.

Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah right off the bat, like you're having already
a bad day and you're taking outon me and you know I'm not going
to get a five star regardlessbecause, like literally from the
first conversation, I know thatyeah.
I'm not going to get a tip, likethere's no upside from here.
I might as well not take youLike.

(10:04):
And also, I guess, like I canhandle like drunk people, I I
can handle like drunk people, Ican, I can handle like loud
people, whatever, but I'm justnot gonna deal with super rude.
Yeah, and it's like I'm gonnahear that it was like an eight
mile drive.
It's like I'm gonna hear thatfor the next eight miles, bro,
like I'm not, I'm not doing this, you know, or or like 20
minutes, whatever.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
Yeah, for sure, that would be awful.

Speaker 2 (10:26):
And then she was like , oh, I better not get charged.
And I was like you won't, youknow, I'm canceling it.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
You're not canceling it.
Get out of my car.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
Yeah, get out of my car and that's the first time
I've ever had to do that out oflike I don't know done 250 rides
since you've been back.
Yeah, that's a lot, I feel likeuh, in like three weeks yeah
all the people you've met yeah,and, like I said, I've had drunk

(10:54):
people in my car.
I'm fine, you know like itdoesn't bother me they're a
little bit louder.
Pick up people who sin yeah,dude, I'm saving them, but you
know, not in that sense I mean,I'm saving them from driving
yeah, right hurting somebodyelse or getting a dui, which
would be yeah, bad to go to jailif they even give those out

(11:17):
anymore they're just giving themout on the street, like here
you get a dui, you get one,we're gonna meet our quota yeah,
so I don't know.
Most of most of the time it'slike 99 of the time it's super
chill though like super easy,and I I got a ride like two

(11:38):
minutes later.
It's like there's not astarvation for rides either
especially at that time becausethis was, it was on saturday
night, sunday morning and it wasa time change and that's like
the biggest bar night oh yeah,because as soon as one o'clock
happens, or when it's twoo'clock and it goes back to one.
Yeah, you get an extra hour out, yeah that's always crazy and

(12:02):
they actually let you do thattoo.
Yeah, it sucks if you work.

Speaker 1 (12:08):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (12:08):

Speaker 1 (12:09):
Oh man, the dog next door is barking.
Hopefully I don't think it's asbad as the one upstairs.

Speaker 2 (12:16):
If you work, you're like, yeah, I got an eight hour
shift.
No, you got a nine hour shift,right yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
That would be awful, or they just have someone come
in for that one hour.
Nobody does that they don't dothat, but I bet that guy would
make a lot of money if he was abartender yeah because if, if
it's the last hour, that's whenpeople are gonna be going crazy
yeah, plus you get.

Speaker 2 (12:38):
yeah, they must get paid a lot more because I mean
they get an extra hour and thenthey get all the extra tips and
stuff.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
So I always thought about being a bartender, but I
don't know if it would conflictwith Christianity.
Really, why?
Well, because you're servingpeople alcoholic, aren't you?

Speaker 2 (13:01):
That's not really your, that's their choice of
buying it.
That's like saying I don't wantto sell this credit card
because people are going peoplegoing dat or I don't want to
sell this choice.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
It's the same with like, yeah, yeah, well it's
pretty much with sellinganything that's true, because it
would be kind of a funatmosphere.

Speaker 2 (13:20):
Yeah, for a little bit I mean, they cut people off
technically.
You could be the cutoff guy,that's it.

Speaker 1 (13:26):
You're cutoff.
Just see how many people I cancut off.
Well, yeah because you can evencut them off after one if you
really want to Like it's your.
That would be so funny If youcut off after one.
You're done.
Yeah, you're done.
Hey, you can't handle anymore.

Speaker 2 (13:47):
I've seen you here before.
I know I know what happens toyou.
I've never been here before,ever.
Oh, what did you think aboutthe wine question?

Speaker 1 (14:00):
The wine.
Oh, it's kind of hard because Ifeel like if you say there's
better wine today, then it'slike knocking Jesus.

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Why.

Speaker 1 (14:11):
I don't know.
I mean I don't necessarilyfully feel that way, but I feel
like some people would get thatidea Like no, jesus did the best
of everything.
So it's like if I say he wasn'tthe best winemaker Ethan.
That's bad.
I don't know because I wasn'tthere.
Best winemaker Ethan that's bad.

Speaker 2 (14:25):
I don't know, because I wasn't there Me neither.

Speaker 1 (14:29):
But, I would say there's a big possibility of us
having better wine today.

Speaker 2 (14:36):
I feel like that too.

Speaker 1 (14:37):
Yeah, I don't think there's anything wrong with
saying that.
I think there was no way tomake it super fast back then and
he was just able to do thatmiracle and so he made wine,
yeah, and that's that's what hedid.
And then today, now there'sprocesses of making it and there
may be a new process that justhappens to be better than the

(14:58):
wine they had back then.
Yeah, who?

Speaker 2 (15:00):
knows.
Do you, do you agree with that?
I thought you were going to askthis too.
It was like wine being lower inalcohol content.
A lot of people claim that withno science behind it.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
It is not lower in alcohol content.

Speaker 2 (15:17):
I thought it was a little bit Compared to what Like
compared to now.
I guess Like wines that arelike, typically like you mean
that, you mean back then?

Speaker 1 (15:27):
I thought you meant like is wine lower than beer?

Speaker 2 (15:29):
And I was like dude no, no lower alcohol content
than now.
Like people say that all thetime, where it's like you know
they're like it's 10.
It was, it was only 6% backthen, or something like that.

Speaker 1 (15:46):
Like the wine well, people, you would still get
buzzed off that yeah, I know I'mlike that's kind of a stupid
argument.

Speaker 2 (15:51):
Anyway, yeah, because beer is like six percent, I
think, yeah or yeah I stillthink it was like 13, which is
like a normal wine what makesyou think that I don't just like
that?

Speaker 1 (16:04):
you don't think much of the process has changed.

Speaker 2 (16:06):
Right, yeah, yeah, I guess, yeah, the science of how
they made it back then.
I don't think it's reallychanged that much.
It's still ferment If anythingit could.

Speaker 1 (16:16):
There's a good possibility.
It could be more.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
You think?

Speaker 1 (16:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
Dude, we should travel back in time, get some,
get the time traveling machineJust for wine.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Yeah, time travel just for wine.
No, because there would be noway to judge how much alcohol
content is in it, so they wouldjust make it and be like, yeah,
that looks pretty good.
And then you have somebodywho's maybe newer to it, or
somebody who's experienced andbe like.
I think we can wait a littlelonger.

Speaker 2 (16:48):
We should wait two more years.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah, exactly.
And then all of a sudden it'sjust like whoa.

Speaker 2 (16:54):
Well, didn't they do that to like purify the water?
Is that why they made wineoriginally?

Speaker 1 (17:02):
I thought that's why.
But wouldn't you not gethydrated from it?

Speaker 2 (17:06):
I think you do somewhat, because they have to
add water to it.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
I don't know.
Oh, so they would have the wineand then put water into the
wine.
The wine would like killwhatever bacteria could possibly
be in the water.

Speaker 2 (17:19):
Yeah, wait, do you know the process of wine?
I don't fully know the processof wine 90% water and they, they
just like, they have like a how.
What are those called great?
10?
Can make you dizzy if you havetoo much they have like, uh,
like wine holders, like wineskins.

Speaker 1 (17:39):
They say this in the like the gospel somewhere yeah,
I didn't know that's what wineskins did, though yeah that's
what they do.

Speaker 2 (17:45):
You don't pour old, it's really water.
You don't pull pour old waterlike old wine, and you know what
I'm saying?

Speaker 1 (17:54):
you don't, you don't pour water into old wineskins.
Yeah, yeah, you pour it in thenew, and then it would purify it
yeah, yeah, yeah oh, I guessit's true what they say.
You do learn something newevery day.
That kind of rhymes Like todayyeah, oh, like I just learned
that I always just thought wineskins was something that they
hold the wine in.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
No, I think it's actually what they use to
ferment it, but it was kind oflike a filter in a way Like they
pour the water in.
Yeah, I've made wine before you.
You have to like, put stuff init.
You've made wine, yeah, exceptthey got like um flies in it.
Then it wasn't good so wewaited like three years for

(18:36):
really crappy wine.
It's because, like the what arethose?
The little gnats, the um gnatsfruit flies fruit flies, there
we go.
Yeah, fruit fly.
Why did I forget that word, Idon't know.
But uh, fruit flies wereeverywhere and they got in the
the grapes themselves.

Speaker 1 (18:56):
I need a drink ew, they got into the what go ahead.
I know I just stopped, well,because I heard oh, I'm sorry,
they got into the grapes.
How did you?
Isn't there a way that you canprotect whatever you're making

(19:18):
from outside sources, such asfruit flies?

Speaker 2 (19:21):
yeah, you could probably bring them inside or
something, because we we did itin the garage, in our old house,
in our garage, so I don't knowif there's an actual, maybe like
a zapper, that'd be cool yeah,but I guess my question is where
is?

Speaker 1 (19:41):
where are the grapes that you're fermenting?
Are they just in a little bowlor something that's?

Speaker 2 (19:47):
exposed.
I think we put it in a reallyclean five-gallon bucket and
then you have to smash them, soit's not just grapes, right, you
smash them, so then they're allexposed and then that's
probably when the flies are likewe're going to town getting
their food.

Speaker 1 (20:04):
Oh right, yeah, because technically the grapes
at that point are completelydead, so they're exposed.

Speaker 2 (20:09):
Now they're eating all the.
Yeah, they're eating all ofthem, or trying to.
And then they're just dyingbecause we're trying to do stuff
with them.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
It's kind of weird that wine and other alcohol is
just rotten fruit.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
Yeah Well, think about yogurt.
It's just rotten milk that'strue.

Speaker 1 (20:27):
One time I left yogurt out all night.
Still ate it the next daybecause it's basically yogurt.

Speaker 2 (20:33):
Yeah, I mean it's yogurt, it's I think they wait a
little bit longer and they putstuff in it, but yeah no, I left
like I bought a thing of yogurt.

Speaker 1 (20:41):
Oh, a thing of yogurt , oh, I thought.

Speaker 2 (20:42):
I bought a thing of yogurt.
Oh, a thing of yogurt.
Oh, I thought you said a thingof milk.

Speaker 1 (20:46):
Sorry, just need to listen, yeah yeah, they
definitely wait longer, though,than a day, but I'm saying I
left yogurt out all night and Istill ate it.
It was fine Because it'sbasically what it is, is left
out milk.
Yeah, anyway, you were saying.

Speaker 2 (21:01):
I've made a beer too before how was that?

Speaker 1 (21:06):
Was that barley?

Speaker 2 (21:11):
It's pretty much the same process as wine.
Well, no, it's like you putlike certain ingredients in
water, in really clean water,though I don't remember what the
ingredients are.
It's not like coming to mind.
I did it like a long time ago.

(21:31):
Sorry, I'm not close enough tothe mic.

Speaker 1 (21:35):
There you go.
Oh yeah, do you want to leanback?
I can turn it up if you want.
Oh yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 (21:42):
Just a little bit.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
Yeah, so that it picks you up a little bit more.

Speaker 2 (21:45):
They have, like sure, just a little bit, yeah, so it
picks you up a little bit more.
They have a fermenting process,though Beer takes like nine
months to make, nine monthssitting.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
That seems like a long time All beer does.

Speaker 2 (21:57):
So every beer that you have takes nine months.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
I feel like all alcohol takes a long time to
make.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
Yeah, bourbon takes even longer.
I think Like two years.

Speaker 1 (22:08):
Well, bourbon is a little different than whiskey,
because it has to come from acharred barrel, that's true, and
it comes from Kentucky.
Yeah, only from Kentucky.

Speaker 2 (22:16):
It's true, no, no.

Speaker 1 (22:17):
No bourbon.
You can only get bourbon fromKentucky.

Speaker 2 (22:20):
Whiskey is everywhere else, oh yeah, you might be
right there.
Yeah, whiskey is everywhereelse.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
Oh yeah, yeah, there's like, there's like weird
rules, well, unless you're inanother country because other
countries do it, then it's notcalled bourbon.
I don't make the ones the usmakes the rules part of the
rules of bourbon is it has tocome from kentucky it is, it's
like a rule.

Speaker 2 (22:43):
yeah, yeah, I didn't know that.

Speaker 1 (22:45):
It's just like how, if you buy whiskey from Ireland,
it's not.
It's spelled W H, I, s, k Y.
There's not there's not an E Yat the end.
Same with Japan.
It's spelled that way and likewhiskey from Scotland is not
called whiskey, it's Scotch.

Speaker 2 (23:01):
Hmm.

Speaker 1 (23:01):
Yeah, it's like all these weird.

Speaker 2 (23:02):
it's like one of those are they all the names for
the same exact thing?

Speaker 1 (23:06):
pretty much yeah, yeah, it's, it's weird.
I think like people are verypeculiar, if I could say that
word.
Right?
No, I think you said it rightyeah on how it's made and where
it's made, that they want it tobe like their thing, because I
feel like that's one of those.
Whiskey is just one of thosethings that people are very
passionate about.

(23:26):
Yeah, when it comes to alcohol,I should say yeah, they really
like their drinks.

Speaker 2 (23:35):
I thought you could get it from Tennessee for some
reason too, Not just Kentucky.

Speaker 1 (23:42):
Nope, if you look on Jack Daniels, it's Tennessee
whiskey.

Speaker 2 (23:51):
Hmm, not your stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay, I don't know enough aboutthis.
I know the cigar guys that onthursday night would know a lot
about this speaking of yeah, Iwas gonna say speaking ofices.

Speaker 1 (24:03):
what's the take on cigars?
Seems to be like a newChristian masculine movement as
cigars, for some reason, no onlyin our circle, yeah, only in
our circle.
No, I'm serious On YouTube andeverything it's like got to itch
my leg.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
It's like, I think it's because you don't inhale it
like a cigarette.

Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, and it's more of like a relaxation thing.

Speaker 2 (24:29):
Yeah, and it's just a relaxation thing and I don't
think it really changes yourmind like weed would.
So it's like that middle groundof like okay.

Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, it's a little bit.
It's just relaxing.
It's not like you're having.
Most people aren't having 20 aday.

Speaker 2 (24:47):
You aren't.
I'm just kidding, I am no.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
Dang, you must be rich.
No, I'm not having 20 a day.

Speaker 2 (24:56):
Dude 20 is that's nuts.

Speaker 1 (24:58):
Well, I'm just saying , like cigarettes, you're having
one after another.
It seems like once, one everyhour, or one every two hours.
You're going out for a smoke.
Yeah, what are you a?

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Snoop Dogg of cigars.

Speaker 1 (25:09):
Yeah, 20 was a bit of an exaggeration, but you know
what I'm saying Five would be alot in a day.
Yes, five would be a lot in aday, yeah, but anyway, yeah, I
think it's just one of thosethings that, if you're using it
in moderation, yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:28):
What do you think about tobacco in general?

Speaker 1 (25:30):
You think it's like I don't know I don't think it's
necessarily bad.
I think they do a lot thatmakes it bad for you.

Speaker 2 (25:41):
Yeah, or like the consequences of doing that for a
long time.
Is it necessarily good for yourbody?
That's a good question.
I would say Should I put it inquestion form?
That's just a statement.

Speaker 1 (25:57):
Well, it could be a good question.
I think that.
Well, I'm sorry.
What did you say?
You were asking a question nono, go ahead.
It is a good question,obviously, if you're doing
something that's making yourhealth worse and worse over time
.
Yeah, it could give you cancer.
Yeah, then it would beconsidered bad, there's no

(26:20):
question about it.
But are cigars really that way?
Because I don't think you'regetting progressively worse if
you're not doing it every day.

Speaker 2 (26:27):
Yeah, I don't think.
So.
I mean, you could probablystill get.
I don't know, I don't know ifyou could get mouth cancer from
it.
Maybe if you were accidentallyinhaling Well, you do a little
bit, inhale a little bit somaybe you could still get lung
cancer from it over a long longperiod.
Little bit, so maybe you couldstill get lung cancer from it
over a long long period.
But yeah, if you're having likeone a week, I don't, I don't

(26:49):
imagine it would do that.
Yeah, because it's not thisconstant hitting of yeah, dude,
let's talk about vapes, thoughthat stuff, because I used to
vape like a lot well, wait, Iwill get to the vapes.

Speaker 1 (27:01):
I just want to say yeah yeah.
Anything else.
Well, with like cigars andstuff, people can say that's bad
or that it causes bad, but youcan say that about almost
anything Like what you eatCoffee.
Is coffee bad for you, though Ihear it's actually good for you
.

Speaker 2 (27:18):
Well, I mean, it can be excessive, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (27:21):
I mean technically, it can raise your heart rate, it
can still be like a vice foryou.

Speaker 2 (27:25):
I guess that's true.
It is for me.
I like coffee so much Cause Ican.

Speaker 1 (27:29):
I can get a headache sometimes in the morning, and
then if I drink coffee it justgoes away, which is also known
as addiction.
Yeah, but we don't think thatit's bad because coffee doesn't
change your mind or anything,but it's still an addiction yeah
like just because it doesn'tchange the way your mind thinks,
or yeah, they're make you sickor anything, doesn't mean that

(27:53):
it can't be an addiction.
But I'd also say like fast foodcould be put in that category,
because that's progressivelykilling you as well, slowly,
over time yo, I mean heartdisease, diabetes.

Speaker 2 (28:05):
It's almost like a, isn't it kind of like a?
I don't know, it's hard to sayit's a sin, because, like,
gluttony is a sin, but it's like, at what point?
Right, you know.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
What I mean is technically like what overeating
yeah, eating when you don'tnecessarily need to but if
you're hungry and you have fastfood, you're not really.
Yeah, it's not reallygluttonous, because you're still
eating when you need to, but ifyou're hungry and you have fast
food, it's not reallygluttonous, because you're still
eating when you need to.

Speaker 2 (28:32):
It's just not a good choice, yeah and it just has a
lot of fat in it.
Yeah, like trans fat.
I think some people overeat it,though you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (28:41):
Well, for sure, they're not eating because
they're hungry.

Speaker 2 (28:43):
They're eating because they love't they're
hungry.
They're eating because theylove it yeah.
They love it or they'readdicted to having that much
food.

Speaker 1 (28:53):
Yeah it seems like people who eat fast food.
Usually eat a lot of it.

Speaker 2 (28:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (28:58):
It's not like something that Not me, though.
I don't remember the last timeI went to go have fast food, I
had McDonald's.
Today you should have went toWendy's to get the Krabby Patty
meal they have a.
Krabby Patty meal.
Yeah, it comes with a KrabbyPatty, I think, kelp fries and

(29:18):
then a pineapple frosty topromote SpongeBob.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Oh yeah, that's awesome.
What do you mean?
Why promote is there?

Speaker 1 (29:29):
a movie coming out.
Maybe it's not to promotespongebob, maybe it's just to
promote wendy.
It's a wendy's promotion, likehow cool is that you can buy a
crabby patty that's what it'scalled oh, okay, you know, I
mean like a thick slice of beefand it's whatever comes on.
The crabby patty like that oneepisode where they're putting
all the toppings on and thenit's like yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
So Wendy's is going out?
Is what you're saying.

Speaker 1 (29:53):
Possibility.
They're trying anything, yeah.
I mean yeah, krabby Patty,because I feel like SpongeBob is
kind of outdated at this point.
Yeah, I mean, I know they'restill making episodes, but it's
not they are.
I think it this point, yeah, Imean I know they're still making
episodes, but it's not they are.

Speaker 2 (30:05):
I think it's just not funny you know what we should
do after this?
What watch spongebob where here?
Oh yeah, I forgot.
Anyways, I don't know on myphone I'm just I'm kind of just
joking you could do a hot spot.

Speaker 1 (30:21):
We could watch on the laptop oh boom, sponge bob.
Anyway, fast food could be putin the same category.
You could say that about almostanything, though yeah like
anything can be used in excess.
I'm pretty sure if you eat toomany vitamins you'll get sick.

(30:41):
Who knows?

Speaker 2 (30:44):
Or get high.

Speaker 1 (30:47):
Yeah, you never know.
Anyway, you were talking aboutvapes.
What about vaping?
Oh, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (30:52):
So I used to vape like all the time and when I
came off of it, of vaping, itjust feels like you're
underwater the whole time.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
When you're coming off of it.

Speaker 2 (31:06):
Yeah, like I didn't realize that I felt like
underwater the whole time, andthen like my lungs got so much
better when I stopped vaping.
Stop vaping, kids.

Speaker 1 (31:15):
Yeah, I remember vaping too.
I think it's almost worse thancigarettes.
I don't know how much healthierit is either, but as far as
like, especially because theamount that you do it, because
you can just have it on your lapand constantly yeah, do it you
could do it in the house if youwanted to.

Speaker 2 (31:33):
Most people do yeah, and even I know, I know I smoked
out my room a couple of timesyeah, it used to be like
delivering pizzas and I wouldjust have it.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah, and your windshield gets all foggy.
It's kind of weird.

Speaker 2 (31:48):
Yeah, hazy, you had to clean it.
Yeah, every once in a while,yeah, it was weird, but I don't
think that's necessarily ahealthy alternative.

Speaker 1 (31:56):
And it's still an addiction yeah, an expensive one
too.

Speaker 2 (32:01):
I don't think, and I think they don't have any like
long-term studies on vapingbecause it hasn't been out long
enough.
It's like so what is that goingto do in like 25 years?

Speaker 1 (32:12):
if you're like the kids now, you know they still
don't have that enough researchon it.
I feel like they don't yeahbecause, you would have to like
research, somebody who's beendoing it for 20, 50 years, I
think cauliflower lung is athing.

Speaker 2 (32:28):
Popcorn oh, is it popcorn?
Yeah, is that just like theglands get full of water and
they just expand a little bit?

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Is that what happens?
Yeah, something like that.
It's just like ugh, it justdoes not sound good yeah.
Because I remember when I wasvaping it was hard to breathe.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, Because I remember when I was vaping, it
was hard to breathe, yeah.
And then when you get off it,you're like, wow, I can actually
breathe.
Now I don't feel like I'm in alike.
It feels like when you're in apool and you like swallow a
little bit of water and you'relike man, I'm trying to cough
this up, you know.

Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, except all the time.
I would compare it to likeyou've been swimming for a few
hours and you just have, likethat feeling of being in the
water and being underwater yeah,that's why I would have
described it.

Speaker 2 (33:15):
It's not good kids yeah, don't drown, you're on
vape yeah for real.
I used to have a box to theboxes, like people now just have
the jewels and stuff and theybuy them disposable ones.

Speaker 1 (33:28):
Yeah, I used to have like the transformer Huge box,
the big robot with the button,has like a big tank and you put
coils in it.

Speaker 2 (33:35):
Yeah, you have coils and then you put liquid in the
top.
Yep, yeah.

Speaker 1 (33:41):
And then you would know it's going bad, because the
liquid would be all brown.

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Oh yeah, yeah, I used to push my coils really far.

Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, that's probably when vaping was really bad for
you because if the coil was likeburnt and stuff like that's all
going in you.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
Yeah, and then I switched.
At some point I was like Ican't do this anymore.
I have to have a new coil.
So as soon as, like, I hit thatfirst one, like it might not
even be like all the way gone,but as soon as I got a little
bit of burn, I was like I'mswitching it out, that's it, I'm
not doing this anymore.
Yeah because, it just tastes sobad yeah, it would taste bad.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, that goes under thebad category, I think.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
That all of this is just bad.
Don't do it.

Speaker 1 (34:31):
Well, I don't necessarily think cigars or
drinking in moderation isterrible.

Speaker 2 (34:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:35):
I think that those are.
Both can be used as relaxationor like a social thing, as long
as it doesn't get out of hand.

Speaker 2 (34:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
Yeah, that makes sense.

Speaker 2 (34:49):
sense it does make sense all right, you want to.

Speaker 1 (34:54):
You want to switch topics in yeah, let's, uh, let's
talk about you on the trail.
Let's just switch to acompletely different topic.
Now.
Let's say you were on, you justgot back from continental
divide and how many miles was it?

Speaker 2 (35:10):
it was 3 000 miles and you walked that whole.
Thing yeah, and technicallymore than that, because I did a
lot of um like extra mountainsand stuff.
Sorry, my ear itch, I did, Idid, I did extra like 14ers in
colorado, um for people whodon't know what is a 14er, oh

(35:36):
yeah yeah, it's over 14 000 feetuh was it hard to breathe up
there.
So and were you going to thepeaks?

Speaker 1 (35:47):
Yeah, yeah the peaks are.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
So there's actually more 14ers than you'd think.
But they have to like.
They have to make like acertain.
There can't be like othermountains that are kind of close
to it.
Like it has to be like astandalone to be a called a 14
or, if that makes sense, likethere can't be other mountains

(36:09):
that are too close to it.
Why is?

Speaker 1 (36:11):
that?
Is there a reason?

Speaker 2 (36:15):
Because I don't really know Otherwise.
I think there's just too many.
Or it's just called a ridgeinstead of like a you know an
actual mountain, yeah, gotcha.
So then I think there's justtoo many.
Or it's just called a ridgeinstead of like a you know an
actual mountain, yeah, gotcha.
So then I think that's why.
But anyways, I climbed a bunchof those.
How?

Speaker 1 (36:34):
many, nine exactly.
Wasn't that hard to do.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
Oh yeah.
Yeah, it was hard, but youasked it, was it hard to breathe
?
Yeah yeah, um.
So when we're hiking I'm superin shape and most of the time my
elevation, like it, started at4 000 and by the time we hit
colorado I had already went overmount taylor, which was 11 000
feet, so like I was already usedto higher elevation yeah I

(37:04):
would say it would be a lotharder if you were like to go
from here to there.

Speaker 1 (37:09):
So you were at 11,000 feet for a while.

Speaker 2 (37:12):
Right, right.
Yeah, I would sleep at 8,000 or9,000 feet, like all the time.

Speaker 1 (37:17):
Oh, okay.

Speaker 2 (37:18):
So I was already used to elevation.
There was one day so I didthree 14ers in a day, which is
kind of crazy.
Um, dang it.
Why am I drawing a blank onwhat ones they are?
I'm drawing a blank on them andwhy, oh, which?

(37:40):
Which mountains it is?
Um, can I look it up?

Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, I guess We'll just sit and relax, just take a
break.

Speaker 2 (37:53):
I have it on Gaia.
I guess it's one of the appsthat I used if I went off trail.
So I use Far Out mostly for itwants me to sign in mostly, for

(38:19):
I use far out mostly for, um,the regular trail, like the
continental divide trail, yeahuh, which is an app pretty much
all of the hikers use them, useit uh.
But going off trail, um,typically people use, like gaia
or all trails, one of those twoapps I use all trails you use
all trail, do you have?

Speaker 1 (38:38):
to pay for that there's what there is like the
better version that you can payfor, but I just like to use it.
Start the trail just to see howlong I've walked and my
elevation gain.

Speaker 2 (38:49):
And that's free.
Okay, yeah, yeah, that wouldsuck if you had to pay for it.
Then Like anymore.

Speaker 1 (39:02):
Well, everything sucks when you have to pay for
it like anymore.
Well, everything sucks, we haveto pay for it.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Let me look up a list of 14 years.
I actually forgot to, so I kindof wanted to do this anyways.
Forgot to like two of the onesthat I climbed.
Oh yeah, I did that one.
I don't know, unless you justwant to keep on going.

Speaker 1 (39:31):
Yeah, if you can't find it then we can't Like
directly.

Speaker 2 (39:38):
Why am I drawing a blank on it?
It's not so.
I did Elbert, I did Massive, Idid La Plata.
It's not so.
I did elbert, I did massive, Idid la plata, I did gray's peak.

Speaker 1 (39:53):
Gray's peak is the only one actually on the trail
so the other ones, you went offtrail to do them, yeah so, like
13 of the four, or sorry, eightof the nine, I went off trail
that I did.
And how much longer?
How many more days did that addto your expedition?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Oh, I don't know.
Probably at least like two orthree compared to anybody else.

Speaker 1 (40:22):
So you would be going up multiple mountains in a day.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah, yep.

Speaker 1 (40:28):
That's kind of crazy Because it took us when we went
to Mount Shakurwa in NewHampshire.
It took us about three hours toget to the peak.

Speaker 2 (40:36):
Right.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Or maybe not three hours.
I think it was like an hour anda half or two hours to get up
there, but that's a very shortmountain compared to what you're
on right, hold on, I know Iknow which one it's by so I can
look it up that way.

Speaker 2 (40:56):
So I did.
Um, the reason why I need tolook this one up is because it's
kind of where the story begins.
Um, oh, it's huron.
Why did I forget it was huron?

Speaker 1 (41:06):
dude, how could you forget that we have that lake?
Huh, we have the lake namedthat I know anyways, I.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
So I went up mount huron and on the back side of
huron there isn't a trail,there's zero trail not even like
an unofficial one.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
No, there's nothing there's nothing.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
So you usually go up here on and then just go right
back down it.
Yeah, I was like I want to goup it and find a way down the
other side, just bushwhackingwhatever to get to over to
missouri and I missouri themountain, yeah the, which is the
second 14er that I did that dayyeah so I get to the top and I

(41:50):
look at this edge and it's justlike a nice edge, like all all
along.
I'm like I think over there Imight be able to get down, like
I just point at it from the top.
So I'm like, yeah, I'll justhead that way and hopefully I
can find it, because you cankind of stay on the top like
float on the top.
Yeah, so I was just head thatway and hopefully I can find it,
cause you can kind of stay onthe top like float on the top.
Yeah, so I was just floating onthe top and then pretty much it
was just uh, rock climbing downdown here on.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
excuse me, the whole time rock climbing down.

Speaker 2 (42:20):
Yeah, it was pretty, it was pretty crazy.
It's probably the craziestmountain I've ever gone down.
Like it wasn't straight, likelike hard, hard, but it's like,
yeah, if I slip or fall off,then it's definitely not gonna
end well.
so I was just like climbing downit and then I was trying to
find the best path, like itwould.

(42:42):
It would flatten out a littlebit and then it would go down
steep again.
I'm sure if anybody goes toHuron they'll be like you
climbed on that side of it andI'll be like, yeah, so I got all
the way down to the bottom,which was like 9,000 feet.
So I have to go back up toMissouri, which this is the

(43:03):
backside of Missouri, and mostpeople don't take this trail
either.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
But does Missouri have a trail?

Speaker 2 (43:09):
Yeah, there was a trail, it wasn't very well like
traveled.
So I'm at 9,000 feet.
I have to go back up to over 14because they're over 14.

Speaker 1 (43:21):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
So I go up to Missouri and my plan was
actually to do, uh, belford andoxford, so I was trying to hit
four in one day.
Um, and so I come back aroundmissouri to go over to belford.
I have to go back down again athird time and I think I went
only down to like 10 or maybe11,000 feet and then I start

(43:46):
climbing.
And the reason why I'm sayingthe story is because I actually
got elevation sickness on thethird one.
And it was pretty crazy becauseI don't know, they kind of tell
you what elevation sicknessfeels like, but like, not until
you experience it.
You're like, oh, this is youknow, this is what it is, but
like not until you experience it.
You're like, oh, this is youknow, this is what it is, yeah,

(44:07):
and I would like it got to asome point.
It was like 13,000 feet orsomething like that, and I just
felt really tired, out of breathand I would stop.
I stopped, took a break andthen, like, I did like 50 feet
more and I was tired, dead,tired again, and then I kept on
going.
It was like 25 feet and I wastired, dead, tired again, and
then I kept on going.
It was like 25 feet and I wouldtake a break, like I'm saying,

(44:28):
like you know, a minute, twominutes.
Did you think that you weredying?
I don't know.
No, it was just like.
This is frustrating because I'mlike my body, I know my body
can do more, yeah, but it's justlike I have to stop because I'm
just like so, like out ofbreath yeah and it got to the
point where I was doing like 10or 10 to 5 feet up and just

(44:49):
stopping again.

Speaker 1 (44:50):
But I made it up um, up Belford, um was Belford the
one that you got the motionsickness yeah, that's.
That's the one that I'm talkingabout like on the way up I was
getting how long did it take youto get up with your condition?

Speaker 2 (45:06):
Yeah, so I was planning on getting up there at
like five and I think it tooklike an extra hour or so, maybe
like a half hour to an hour ofextra time, and how long was
each rest?
Only like a minute to like fiveminutes maybe.
That's kind of a lot, yeah,adds up.

(45:29):
Yeah.
Like five minutes, maybe sokind of a lot, yeah, adds up,
yeah.
So then I got to the top and Iknew I wasn't going to be able
to go over to oxford, which islike it's only half a mile away,
but you have to go down like500 feet and then back up 500
feet, yeah, to make it like it'sa separate mountain.
That's that's also why they,like you know they could count
it as one mountain if it's toohigh of elevation in between the
ridges, right, um?

(45:50):
So at that point I was like,yeah, I gotta go down.
So then I went, went back downand it my lungs, uh, slowly
improved, I would say.
When I got down to like 12 000feet I was fine.
But I'm also going downhill,which is a lot easier.

Speaker 1 (46:09):
But yeah, I think going downhill on mountains is
harder, but well, I mean easy,easier like on your body on my
body, I guess.

Speaker 2 (46:18):
Yeah, in your legs you can go downhill a lot faster
than uphill.

Speaker 1 (46:24):
So and I'm assuming you're the only one doing these
by yourself.
Yeah, you're not coming.
You're not coming across toanybody so like what's going on
in your mind, aren't you?
Is there any part of you that'sa little scared that something
could go wrong out there,especially with the sickness,
and I would the rock climbingpart.

(46:44):
What if you had gotten stuck?

Speaker 2 (46:47):
Yeah, it was pretty dangerous.

Speaker 1 (46:50):
I don't really think about it In the moment.

Speaker 2 (46:52):
I guess I just don't think about it.
I just want to go experience itand I don't really think about
that risk.
It's in the back of my head,you know, alex Horn Harndale.

Speaker 1 (47:08):
Yes, harndale, I don't know.
Yeah yeah, the rock, the freeclimber, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
He has a quote that's like, yeah, some people just
don't experience that fear ofdeath and it's like it's kind of
sad, he's like it, like it's,it's a thrill.
But he also, I think he alsohas that fear mindset and I I
wouldn't be surprised if I havethis too, where it's just like
you have to feel extreme fear toactually feel fear.

(47:34):
You know, I mean like not everyday, you know ever doing like
normal things is just not scary,like you have to go out and get
that thrill, like it's a thrillseeker.
And a lot of people, a lot ofclimbers, don't feel really even
fear when they're climbingeither, like they're at a point

(47:57):
where they're just at a blissyeah, and it's just something
that they love doing so they'renot really thinking about oh, if
I fail, they're only thinking Ilove doing this, yeah, yeah.
So I think that's why I likeclimbing and hiking so much,
because I don't like reallythink about that, it's just like
I go and experience it.

Speaker 1 (48:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
And it's fun to me so .

Speaker 1 (48:20):
So you're on the way down from was Missouri the one
that you got sickness.
No, no, it was after Missourito Belford, belford and then on
your way down from Belford toOxford, you start feeling better
.

Speaker 2 (48:33):
No, I wasn't good.
I couldn't go to Oxford at allBecause you never made it.
No, yeah, so I didn't do thefour, I only did three that day,
which is still a crazyachievement.
If you told anybody yeah, Iknow a guy that did three 14ers
in a day they would be like what.
But yeah, so I came downBelford, just on the other side

(48:58):
of it, and just camped.
I think I was still at like10,000 feet when I camped.
So in anything really over eight, you could get elevation
sickness If you're sleeping.
No, no, just in generalanything over eight.
Um, when I I did graze, whichis the only one on the CDT that

(49:18):
you go up, hold on, I got, okay,it passed.
Um, uh, I went up graze andthen, as I was coming down, it
was pretty late and I came downand I camped like right at
12,000 feet.
I was like who gets whoevercamps at this high of height

(49:40):
like 12,000 feet?
Nobody.
And I just did it't.
It was fine, but yeah, but Iwas way used to used to it by
then yeah, and that's.

Speaker 1 (49:53):
You said.
That's on the grays, as youcall it yeah, it's called grays,
peak and tory.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
Grays and tories is right next to each other and
grays is on the trail andTorrey's is like half mile off.
So I put my pack down, wentover and did Torrey's and then
came back and got my pack andkept on going.

Speaker 1 (50:13):
And you just remembered where your pack was.
Was it like, or was there atrail?

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Yeah, yeah, I was.
It was just off the trail, itwas at the top of graze Um peak
of Gray's Peak.
I actually did that a lot.
So for Elbert and Massive I didthe same thing.
I just slack packed it.
That's what they call it.
You probably don't know thatterm, do you no?
So slack packing is like somepeople do it, like from town to

(50:38):
town, like you can give somebodyyour pack and they'll like so.
Then you just take a day packand you go from town to town if
it's close enough, liketypically it's a day hike.
It's like a day hike, yeah.
So like usually it's less than25 miles.
But I did it where I would putmy pack down and then like take
my water and my whatever, acandy bar, and then went up um

(51:02):
elbert, which is the highest inColorado and the second highest
and the lowest, 48.
What's the most high, whitney,which I did on the PCT.

Speaker 1 (51:14):
Okay, so that one's out in Oregon, Washington, no
California.

Speaker 2 (51:19):
California, Yep.
So I went and did Albert andthen I came down grabbed my pack
.
Albert and Massive areseparated by like seven miles,
like the base of them are.

Speaker 1 (51:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
So I did like the seven miles, got to Massive and
put my pack down and did thatone too.
So I did the two highest inColorado, but they're the second
and the third highest in thelower 48.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:48):
So in the same day, in the same day.
Yeah, and you're still alive totalk about it.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
So that's, pretty cool yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:55):
Yeah, yeah.
Well, when you add all that up,it's like 8,000 feet of
elevation gain in a single day,like 8,000 feet of elevation
gain in a single day, jeez, soyour body is just adapting and
changing so much, I just firedon all seven cylinders, dude.

Speaker 1 (52:13):
Yeah, all seven cylinders, eighth?
No, you only have seven.
You only have seven.
Now, sir, you need to gain moremuscle to get the eighth, need
to gain more muscle to get theeighth.
And then what's after Gray's?
Is there just still moremountains?
Is there just shorter?

Speaker 2 (52:31):
Right, yeah, like after you do that one, I think
there's like one more 13 orright after it, but then that's.
Then.
It kind of goes pretty lowafter that.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Sorry.
Oh, I thought you were Ithought you were going to look
something up on your phone.
No, no.

Speaker 2 (52:50):
I was just trying to get this relaxed, oh.

Speaker 1 (52:54):
I did La.

Speaker 2 (52:55):
Plata after I did.
So I did those three, those oneday, that one day, and then the
next day I do La Plata, whichis another 14er.

Speaker 1 (53:05):
That one's pretty cool.
What makes?

Speaker 2 (53:06):
that one pretty cool.
Uh, it's more standalone, likeHuron is like there's a lot of
mountains around it, where LaPlata is like a little bit
farther out and there's not asmany mountains around it.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
There's a lot of ridgeline, but not like I don't
know, it's just one of thoseones that you go up and you can
like see it you can see prettyfar on that one compared to
Huron and the other two were anyof them snow capped at the time
.

Speaker 2 (53:37):
Missouri wasn't, belford wasn't, but Huron and La
Plata was, and then Elber.
Elbert and massive both hadsnow on them too.
So four out of the nine that Iwent on, yeah and what happens

(53:59):
after these big mountains.

Speaker 1 (54:01):
What's the trail like then?

Speaker 2 (54:03):
or is colorado just all mountain yeah, colorado is
mostly mountain.
Um, I mean, then you, you, youhave like the winds coming up
like north, way north of thatyou have you.
Uh see, why am I thinking, utah, right.

Speaker 1 (54:22):
Is Utah number four?
Why am I thinking Utah?
Wasn't it New Mexico, colorado,yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:28):
New Mexico, colorado, wyoming.

Speaker 1 (54:31):
Wyoming.

Speaker 2 (54:33):
Yeah, and then Utah, and then.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Montana.
Well wouldn't it yeah.

Speaker 2 (54:45):
Utah is kind of next to Colorado, isn't it?
Are you talking?

Speaker 1 (54:48):
about idaho.
Oh yeah, idaho.
Why am I thinking utah?
That kind of sounds similar insome ways, but it's because
colorado, arizona I thinkcolorado, arizona, yeah, utah
and another one.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
Oh, I went utah.
I went to utah with my parentstoday, that's why I'm thinking
of it when they came and visited.

Speaker 1 (55:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (55:06):
That was cool.
Went to Arizona too.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
There's three people that I know that have gone to
Utah so far.

Speaker 2 (55:13):
Oh, maybe it's because Josh and freaking Cale
were talking or Alec weretalking about it.

Speaker 1 (55:18):
Yeah, utah's been on the mind.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah, maybe, maybe.
Yeah, utah has been on the mind.
Yeah, maybe.
Yeah, I don't know when were we.

Speaker 1 (55:30):
We were talking about Colorado.
But what compels you Other thanthe thrill-seeking part?
Is there anything else thatmakes you want to go on these
trails and just leave everythingbehind for a while?

Speaker 2 (55:45):
Oh yeah, I feel like I said this last time, but
that's okay.
Um, what do you mean last timewhen we talked about the AT?

Speaker 1 (55:52):
Oh, so like last year , yeah, yeah, people can hear it
again.

Speaker 2 (55:57):
Um, I think just being really away from society.
One year away from your phone,like you don't have internet
easily accessible.
You're away from work Like youdon't have work stress, you
don't have car stress, you don'thave house stress, you know.

Speaker 1 (56:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
And all of that, you don't have money stress.
If you save up and do it right,you don't have money stress.
Some people do still out there,right, you know, if you're
going in debt because of trails.

Speaker 1 (56:29):
Is there times when you're just out there and you
have no idea what's going on inthe world because you can't
update your phone?

Speaker 2 (56:35):
Sometimes, but a lot of the stuff we find out pretty
quickly like Trump getting shotat.
I knew like the day after yeah,that's pretty crazy.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
I would have thought that would have been like you're
just wandering about on thetrail and then all of a sudden,
months later, you're like hey,that's crazy, that happened.

Speaker 2 (56:53):
Yeah, no, I mean we're in towns like three or
four days and sometimes we evenget there.
Wasn't too bad of connect, likelack of connection, like
usually I would have it on onairplane mode because it kills
your phone yeah, because it'sjust constantly searching for
satellite so like once and maybeonce a day, I would check it
and see if I have anything.
But other than that I wouldn'tcheck it and I just don't care

(57:17):
about like news that much yeah,like Well, I mean, the whole
point of being out there is tokind of forget about it.

Speaker 1 (57:26):
Yeah, forget about it Beyond nature.
So it makes sense.

Speaker 2 (57:30):
Yeah.
Are you going to write a book?
I've thought about it.
I thought about writing aboutlike all three, cause I think
it's hard to write a book onlike just one and then the other
, then the other, and it's hardto be like, and today I went
walking, like you know, you haveto like do individual stories,
like you know, that one that Ijust told about the three

(57:52):
mountains, maybe more in depththan what I just said, but yeah,
because when you're writingit's a lot a lot slower yeah
slower and easier to go intodetail.

Speaker 1 (58:05):
Yeah, I love my red bull got red ball down.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Um, I think the one of the crazy craziest stories
was on the cdt was the rain incolorado.
They got really bad rainstorms.
Is it early june?

Speaker 1 (58:22):
yeah, I think early june is that the natural process
, or was this a thing that washappening this year?

Speaker 2 (58:29):
yeah, like this year they got it early, gotcha, they
got it early june.
They usually get it late juneand so they had flooding there,
but that's kind of beside thepoint.
It was it was raining one daywhen I was walking well, I
should back up.
So I was walking through abunch of mountains and it's like
four, three, four, and usuallyit rains like at five, and

(58:50):
usually it only rains for likemaybe an hour, but this day was
different.
So it starts raining like atfour, like just just like light
rain, yeah, and then it juststarts calming down like around
five and I'm like dang, it'sreally coming down and it's it's
like 60, you know it's not likecold, but it's not warm for for

(59:16):
July, right, and uh, or June,sorry, early June and uh, so I'm
just walking and it's justcoming down and for hours it was
just coming down.
Usually it just, like I said,just passes through.
So I'm like man, I got to findsome place and I like look on my
phone.
I'm like, okay, it says there'sa cabin like right here, uh,

(59:39):
and it was like 25 miles in isquite a bit in colorado, um
because of the mountains.
Yeah, yeah yeah, doing 25.
If you told people you did 25through colorado, that's, that's
kind of crazy.
But I did that like every day,and usually by five o'clock,
five or six o'clock, but I get.

(01:00:00):
I get close to this cabinaround seven and I just get in
there and I'm just like drenched, I'm like cold and I think I
was like borderline hyperthermicbecause I'm like starting to
shake like like from being socold and my rain jacket which I
I think it's a really good rainjacket and it got soaked through
.
So it was.

(01:00:20):
I had a a long sleeve but itwas all wet, like all down my
sleeve aren't rain jacketssupposed to be completely
waterproof?
they're supposed to be, but thatone went through like you're
supposed to put lacquer on themtoo, and I hadn't put lacquer on
them in a while.
And on mine, um, I had rainpants.

(01:00:41):
This is why I always hike withrain pants too.
It's because that saved mypants like a lot.
I think, it only got like wet,like kind of down by, like my
ankles, because that's whereyou're walking.
But yeah, I just had to liketake everything off and switch
to my second pair of clothing soI have to.

Speaker 1 (01:01:02):
Your backpack has some type of rain protection on
them yeah, my, my rain, or sorry, my backpack.

Speaker 2 (01:01:11):
It has it had a cedar summit like rain proof, like a
really heavy bag inside of it.
I most some people do theoutside but like, yeah, but if
it rains as hard as it did thatday it would have gone through
the outside bag too yeah.
Then all of your stuff is justdone, like, how are you going to
sleep in a wet sleeping bag?

(01:01:32):
So instead I do the inside andjust have a liner on the inside,
and so, yeah, my all my stuffwas dry.
I had, I have like a sleepingpair of like clothes, so I just
put those on and then I had mypuffy on and I warmed up after a
while.
But that cabin really saved mybutt because if I was going to

(01:01:55):
try to set up a camp in that,like no way.

Speaker 1 (01:01:59):
In the rainstorm.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:02:02):
It was really bad.
Was there anyone else in thecabin?

Speaker 2 (01:02:04):
No, except for a very greedy rat.

Speaker 1 (01:02:09):
Ugh yeah, did you roast it?

Speaker 2 (01:02:12):
No, I wanted to kill it, but it was running all over
the place.

Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Did you stay there?

Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
I had no way to kill it.
Anyways, you could slap it back, yeah, yeah it's it's old,
minor uh cabins.
So there's a lot of abandonedcabins in colorado in general
that still have good roofs onthem.
Some of them aren't aren't goodanymore, but this one, this in
particular one, had a metal roofon it, so so it was really good

(01:02:44):
.

Speaker 1 (01:02:45):
You stayed there with a rat.
Yeah, I'd be freaked out tosleep there.

Speaker 2 (01:02:52):
That happens all the time On the AT.
There's more mice on the ATthan anything.

Speaker 1 (01:02:59):
But you said he was greedy.
What made him greedy?

Speaker 2 (01:03:01):
He was really fat.
That's why I said he was greedy.
What made him greedy?
He was really fat.
That's why I said he was great.
But you, you have to hang your.
You just hang your pack up likeon a hook and usually they
can't.
Usually rats can't get to it.
Or I think this one had like ametal wire that hangs down and
they can't get to it because Ithink they can't like go on the
wire itself like they can't, andthey don't want to jump onto

(01:03:23):
your pack right, because they'renot, they don't fly that well.

Speaker 1 (01:03:27):
I mean, if they miss they could die right right so
but I would just not likesleeping on the ground with it
wandering about.
I feel like that freaked me outa little bit yeah, I had my
flashlight on him at one time.

Speaker 2 (01:03:41):
He was only like two feet away.
I'm like I.
I just want to strangle you.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
I bet you could have easily killed it if you wanted
to Smack your flashlight on it,although, that's kind of violent
.

Speaker 2 (01:03:53):
I didn't have a big flashlight.

Speaker 1 (01:03:55):
Oh.

Speaker 2 (01:03:56):
And like a small lantern one.

Speaker 1 (01:03:58):
You're telling me you probably don't bring a knife
too, because it's too heavy.

Speaker 2 (01:04:02):
No, I had a knife, but it's going to run away once
you make a move.
That's true.
Maybe my pole, maybe I couldhave gotten him with my pole,
but my hiking poles.

Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:04:14):
But I think they were down.
So I was in a loft area andthen all of my other stuff was
down low like on the ground.

Speaker 1 (01:04:23):
And he was just up on the ground, so, and he was just
up there with you.

Speaker 2 (01:04:26):
Yeah, we were chilling yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
Okay, so there's the rainstorm rainstorm in 99,.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
The rainstorm in 99.

Speaker 1 (01:04:38):
And then like so the next day is it not raining, or
is it still raining bad.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
The next morning it was still raining.
I think it cleared up abouthalfway through the day, which
usually it does.
It's weird.

Speaker 1 (01:04:52):
And how do you dry your clothes?

Speaker 2 (01:04:55):
You don't.
You just leave them on and Iput my rain gear back on.
You kind of just start cold.
I would imagine the chafing isreal back on you kind of just
start cold.
I would imagine the chafing isreal.
I would say I always get drychafing, not from rain, not from
like water.
Really I always get it in likeI got it in um the california

(01:05:15):
desert.

Speaker 1 (01:05:17):
And then I also got it in new mexico when I was
there I wonder if it's becausethe air is so dry and your skin
gets really dry yeah, it'susually usually my butt.
It's very uncomfortable I canimagine that does not sound fun
for anybody yeah, I don't knowwhy is my phone going on, but

(01:05:38):
you can flip it over yeah, yeah,yeah, I'm gonna do that wow,
that was cool.
I made a cool sound, wow, and sodid you hike in the rain the
next day in your wet rain gearand yeah, and then it dried out
midday or whatever, because thesun comes out, the sun comes out

(01:05:59):
.
Yeah, that's one funny becausethe colorado is known as the
sunshine state.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
Yeah, I mean, everything dries out though, you
know, because it's dry inColorado.

Speaker 1 (01:06:09):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:06:12):
So it all dries out?
Wow, it dries out reallyquickly.
They're probably slamming thedoor because we're talking so
loud.
You think we're talking loud, Idon't know.
I could see your neighborshearing us, do you think so?

Speaker 1 (01:06:25):
No, I feel like we sound louder because we have
headphones on.
Oh, maybe, yeah, like if youtake them off, doesn't it sound
like we're normally talking.

Speaker 2 (01:06:33):
Oh, yeah, it doesn't sound loud to me.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
I thought I took them off, though, when we were all
doing the last one and, uh, Ithought we were talking really
loud I feel like that day wewere, because there was like so,
when there's three of us,there's more more energy, more
energy yeah and so I think it'sjust a little more obnoxious
because I definitely, when I wasrecording through that one, I
was like, man, I'm being prettyobnoxious in this one, yeah,

(01:06:59):
more than I normally am, but itwas fun because there was three
of us.
Yeah, jokes were being told andlaughed at and laughed at.
Yeah, and for many ages I'll belaughed at I'll look back at
this time, but anyways so backto the book the book the book

(01:07:24):
that you need to write.
Yeah, Like I said I would writeone like John Eldridge, be Ethan
Eldridge or call or call him,change your last name, or call
him John Scudder.

Speaker 2 (01:07:38):
Excuse me, sorry yeah .

Speaker 1 (01:07:42):
Yeah, cause I think it's.
I mean, you don't need to makeit the whole premise of the book
, but I think it's good for mento hear about adventures like
that yeah, because I think intoday's society there's not
enough men going out and doingthese types of adventures.
Not that you need to go on ahike for six months, but it's

(01:08:04):
really cool to hear stories likethat and they're inspiring for
men to hear, so I think thatwould be an important book.

Speaker 2 (01:08:12):
Yeah, and I think it was a lot of.
It was walking with God, causeI read my Bible like every night
, not to not to boast oranything.

Speaker 1 (01:08:22):
It sounds like you're like no, I, I, I read my Bible
like every night, not to boastor anything.
Dude, it sounds like you'relike hyper-spiritual right now.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
No, I had a plan to read the whole New Testament
while I was out there.

Speaker 1 (01:08:32):
I saw it on Facebook.
You would be like Romans 1.
Yeah, 1 through 4 or whatever.

Speaker 2 (01:08:39):
Yeah, usually I'd read two or three in a night
Chapters.
Yeah, yeah, whoa.
Usually I'd read two, two orthree in a night chapters.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:08:46):
Yeah, Whoa Well that's pushing it way too
spiritual yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:08:53):
Yeah, maybe.
I don't know Um that's the onlything I had to read, though.
So like I had my Bibledownloaded on my phone, um, read
though.
So like I had my bibledownloaded on my phone, um, I'm
not saying that's the only thereason why I read it, but yeah,
but uh, when there's nothing todo, like at night, it's really

(01:09:14):
nice just calming down, readingyour bible and then falling
asleep right after that and it'slike a real, I don't know,
walking with god thing.
It's like I can read the wholenew testament in five months,
five, six months.
That's another thing I wasgoing to kind of bring up is
like do you feel like manypeople have read the whole new
testament in general, like mostpeople?

(01:09:36):
No, that's crazy to me likemost christians, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
I figured that's what you meant.

Speaker 2 (01:09:45):
Atheist.

Speaker 1 (01:09:46):
Atheist.
Yeah, for some reason, atheistsare not reading the New
Testament.
They're actually doing better.
I mean, I wouldn't be surprisedsometimes.
I think that if the majority ofChristians were reading the New
Testament, we probably wouldn'thave megachurches.

Speaker 2 (01:10:06):
You think, wow, yeah, because when you read it in its
entirety, it's like oh,sometimes some of the things
that are said in there are like,yeah, this doesn't really
follow what you guys are saying.

Speaker 1 (01:10:16):
Exactly.
They take verses out of contexta lot of times and make what
they want the verse to say.
They make it say yeah becausethey I don't know if they like
just believe that or if some ofthem, I'm sure, know people
aren't going to actually look itup.
Yeah, I know the majority ofpeople aren't going to actually

(01:10:37):
look up what this verse meansbecause people give.
It seems like in today's dayand age people give such
authority to people, like if apastor says it, it's like oh, it
must be true.

Speaker 2 (01:10:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
A good example is when Job says I think it's the
first chapter in Job.
He says first chapter in Job.
He says the God that gives andthe God that takes away.
Some people think that God doesgive and God does take away.
But then some people don'tbelieve that.
And they only believe itbecause a pastor said, well, god

(01:11:15):
doesn't actually take away.
Job is just saying that.
But it's not actually true.
Now yeah, and they just believeit because the pastor says it.
Now, wow, yeah, and they justbelieve it because their pastor
says it.
When job says the god thatgives and the god that takes,
the next verse it says and withall, this, job would not sin
with his lips.
So I was like, is he tellingthe truth then?

(01:11:37):
I think that's a true statementhe gives and takes away yeah, I
do too, but some, for somereason, when you fall on the
side that god takes away, you'relike a believer in the evil god
and it's like.

Speaker 2 (01:11:51):
But sometimes god takes away for good reason, yeah
, yeah yeah, I think theargument of I mean we've kind of
gone over this before, but youknow the paul argument of uh,
you know he, he had a somethinggoing on.
You know we don't know what itis right, it's a metaphoric, or

(01:12:12):
it could be, or it could be real.
Like you're right, we don't knowyeah, we don't, we don't know
what it was.
But he said you know.
And then god said to him like Iam efficient enough, like like
I am enough for you or I meantyeah, I am very efficient, I
build worlds no, yeah, yeah, butI know you're talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:12:35):
It's like he prays to him three times.
Then he says my grace should besufficient yeah, sufficient,
that's the word I'm looking for,even though.

Speaker 2 (01:12:47):
People are going to be like you guys are idiots.

Speaker 1 (01:12:49):
Well, I'm sure they already think that but they'll
continue.
They come back.

Speaker 2 (01:12:54):
But anyways, I feel like there's a reason why that
we don't know what that was.

Speaker 1 (01:13:05):
So then we can insert our own thing of like you
know's true I'm struggling withthis.

Speaker 2 (01:13:07):
Yeah, I'm struggling with thisis like I am enough.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
Yeah, come back to me , because if it, was like
blatantly a physical problem,then we would only think about
that during our physical rightbut we don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:13:20):
We don't know if it's like a spiritual or a mental or
physical.
Yeah, and most people put it inthat category.
They think it was like becausehe got blind in that time and so
he had eye problems, and mostpeople put them in that and it's
like we don't know that for ahundred percent.
Sure.

Speaker 1 (01:13:36):
Yeah, because that happens in Acts, right and then.
Or the blinding happens in Actsand then that statement is in 2
Corinthians.
Yeah, I actually know it.
2 Corinthians 12, 9.
Dude, there's my boast Dude.

Speaker 2 (01:13:51):
Wow, I cannot do that .
I like I've like read like thewhole Bible, the whole New
Testament, probably like acouple of times, like three or
four times, and I still, I stillcan't feel like exactly where
it is.
It's like, oh yeah, this oneverse, like I don't remember
where it is, but I know it's inthere.

Speaker 1 (01:14:09):
Lately I've been thinking I don't know if it
really matters.
Yeah, if you have like theexact verse memorized.
Yeah, like as long as you know,that's what it says.
And then if, if they look it upand you're right, it's like
what and why does it matter?

Speaker 2 (01:14:22):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (01:14:22):
The only reason why I have that specific one
memorized is because you can useit in arguments, in debates.
Oh Well, when it comes to likedoes God heal every time and all
that stuff.

Speaker 2 (01:14:36):
Yeah, good job, which is that would give you a high
five, but I'm not next to you.
Yeah, air fives are cool,though, which give you a high
five, but I'm not next to you.

Speaker 1 (01:14:45):
Yeah, air fives are cool, though, which would be a
better hand hug five.
Oh, dude, I never saw.
I've never seen that before.

Speaker 2 (01:14:49):
That's cute uh, it's so cringy you're the one
cringing I'm.
I'm enjoying it.
I thought that was awesome,okay yeah so what are you gonna?

Speaker 1 (01:15:02):
I was going to say that's a good segue, as it were,
is does God heal every time man.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
This is such a I kind of went over this once.

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Yeah, but not it was a terrible.
It was a terrible podcast.
It didn't go well.
That's why I didn't post it.
But we don't have to go overthis question for like 30
minutes.
We can just kind of discuss ita little bit oh okay, yeah, I
don't know.

Speaker 2 (01:15:30):
I don't know if god necessarily heals every time, or
are you saying like, hmm, likewhat happens when he doesn't
heal?
Like when people pray and it'slike oh, I didn't get healed.
Yeah, Do you really think it'speople's?
Well, you must not have beenbelieving.

Speaker 1 (01:15:47):
Yeah, do you think it's people's unbelief?
I don't know where that comesfrom.

Speaker 2 (01:15:53):
There's a Bible verse about that.

Speaker 1 (01:15:55):
There is, but there's also the Bible verse on it's
John 5.
Dude, he knows, at the pool ofBethesda or whatever it's called
.

Speaker 2 (01:16:07):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:07):
There's that cripple who, or, I'm sorry, he's
paralyzed, I think, and Jesusheals him.
So like, pick up your bed andwalk.

Speaker 2 (01:16:18):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:16:19):
And the guy doesn't know who he is.
So and my question is how is hehealed or, I'm sorry, how can
he have unbelief if he doesn'teven know who Jesus is?
You can't have unbelief insomething you don't know of.

Speaker 2 (01:16:37):
Right.
I think it's through Jesus'belief in his father that he was
healed.

Speaker 1 (01:16:44):
Right, would that be?
Couldn't that be the case fortoday, then?

Speaker 2 (01:16:50):
yeah, I think it could be.
Cause I feel like people focustoo much on healing in general.

Speaker 1 (01:16:55):
Yeah, so do I, I think.

Speaker 2 (01:16:57):
I'm like that's not the point of why Jesus came, was
it?
Yeah, yeah, I know.

Speaker 1 (01:17:02):
I agree.
I actually think that, well,I'm going to finish this, yeah,
yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
Go ahead.
I'm sorry.

Speaker 1 (01:17:08):
Um, where were we?
We were, yeah, if I just, Ijust don't think your unbelief
could ever have power overJesus's power to heal you.

Speaker 2 (01:17:22):
Right, yeah, if he wants to heal you, he will.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
That's what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (01:17:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:17:27):
I think even if you say no, I don't want it, you
think that's strong enough tostop him.

Speaker 2 (01:17:32):
No, no, no, no.
Oh, my hand's way better.
Why would you not want it?
Though that would be myquestion.
I don't know if you had like abroken arm deal like no dude, I
want my arm broken for the restof my life well, uh, unbelief
could also be.

Speaker 1 (01:17:53):
You don't actually believe that it's going to heal.

Speaker 2 (01:17:57):
Yeah, but yeah, I feel like that shouldn't matter.

Speaker 1 (01:18:00):
But yeah that I don't think that would matter.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
It sounds like we're bringing a a very human argument
into a very spiritual realm.
Really, in my opinion, what.
Not like our personal.
I'm just saying like in general, healing in general, like
people bring a human argumenttowards it and you're like dude.

Speaker 1 (01:18:24):
It's a lot deeper.

Speaker 2 (01:18:25):
You really think?

Speaker 1 (01:18:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:27):
It's kind of like when Job was talking.
You know Job argument.

Speaker 1 (01:18:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
Where it's like.

Speaker 1 (01:18:34):
We're making God into what we would do.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, like oh youmight like.

Speaker 2 (01:18:40):
A lot of job's friends were like you must have
sinned, you know he's like Ididn't right, you know and
you're like you guys are arguingabout little things and then
god just comes and he's like didyou create the world?
Were you there at the beginningof time?

Speaker 1 (01:18:52):
You know that is one of my favorite chapters in the
Bible.

Speaker 2 (01:18:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:18:56):
He comes in and says all that, I think, yeah, that's
very true.
We make such a human argumentabout it.
It's like like his friends aresaying I think they're saying if
I was God, then, yeah, I woulddefinitely be punishing you if
you did something bad.
Yeah, when in reality it's likethat's not what's going on.

Speaker 2 (01:19:16):
I mean, that's literally what non-Christian
people do about the church.
They say I don't want tobelieve in God because I
wouldn't want God that likeallows sin into the world.

Speaker 1 (01:19:29):
Oh right, you know, yeah, and they take a human
argument when it's like youweren't there.

Speaker 2 (01:19:34):
Do you know what free will is Like?
You know, yeah.
Do you know what God's love is?
You know, no.
You're not, you're human andyou're thinking of it that way.

Speaker 1 (01:19:48):
That is a pretty good argument, as long as we had
more to back it up it was like,yeah, it's a very human argument
.
Yeah is when you, when you tryto make god into what you would
do.

Speaker 2 (01:19:56):
Yeah, that's one of the biggest problems, I think,
in today's society in general, Idon't make the rules like I
have the bible to tell me whatthe rules are to or whatever.
You came in here the other daywith a ten commandments saying
to orient my life in that wayyou know what I mean yeah but

(01:20:18):
where I was going anyways, yeah,sorry, no, I mean just
destroying your argument I don'tthink you're really destroying
not destroying it, but liketotally bringing a different way
, which is fine.

Speaker 1 (01:20:29):
but now I want to go into what were we talking about.
It was like we were going intothis and then I said I wanted to
finish my thought oh, you saidpeople are obsessed with
healings and stuff.
Yeah, yeah.
So obviously in Revelations ittalks about the Antichrist,
which we kind of think is like amovement.

(01:20:50):
Yeah, I don't, or like a spirit, spiritual thing, not
necessarily one person.

Speaker 2 (01:20:57):
Right, right.
A lot of people think that theAntichrist is a person and it's
going to come in like a personform, and I think it's just an
idea, mostly because Jesus saidthe Antichrist is already with
us now.
Right.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
Unless the dude's thousands of years old.
It's Donald Trump, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:21:17):
No, I'm just gonna say bill clinton, he's still
alive.
Dude, how is he still alive?

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
also.
I like that they're having himspeak at things now.
I don't want to get too intopolitics.
Bill clinton, oh, and like talkabout how immoral Donald Trump
is while they're having BillClinton do things, just saying.
That's true.
As they say, make it make sense.

Speaker 2 (01:21:42):
Did you know that Trump was in town today,
tomorrow's voting?
His last town was here.

Speaker 1 (01:21:50):
Grand Rapids.

Speaker 2 (01:21:51):
Yeah, he was in town, Nice.
It was busy down there.
Van Andel no, I think it was.
What's the other one?
That boy was not at the DeltaPlex, no, no.
The other one that's like DeVos, no, no, I want to say 21 Jump
Street, but that's not.
21 Monroe the small.

(01:22:12):
Yeah, yep Monroe.
Yeah, I think he was 21 Monroethe small.
Yeah, yep Monroe.
Yeah, I think he was at Monroe.
Oh, which?

Speaker 1 (01:22:17):
does that?

Speaker 2 (01:22:18):
only fit like 300 people.

Speaker 1 (01:22:20):
Yeah, but, and that also seems a little too hip for
him yeah.
Like Van Andel is a nice placefor like the oldies 21 Monroe.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
Unless the line went all the way back, it could have
gone way farther than I thought.
Maybe it was at the Van Andelor the what is it Close to the
Bob like, right behind the Bob.

Speaker 1 (01:22:40):
I think it's 21 Monroe.

Speaker 2 (01:22:43):
Oh, okay, okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:22:46):
But actually you can fit the intersection yeah isn't
it the intersection?
He was at the intersection.

Speaker 2 (01:22:52):
I don't know which one.
It is no way the one that canfit 6,000, I think Because that
is not the intersection.
I went to the Dermot Kennedyconcert there at one of them.
It's not Van Andel.
It's the one downtown, the onebehind the Bob, like behind the
Bob or behind Eve, I guess youwould call it.

(01:23:15):
Well, but the club down there,we'll have to look it up.
Anyways, it fits at least 3,000, because I went in there and it
was like there was like athousand in there.

Speaker 1 (01:23:28):
Anyways, what we're talking about, we need to get
back on track.
I don't want to go down thepolitics route again.

Speaker 2 (01:23:35):
Third time, dude.
Third time's a charm.

Speaker 1 (01:23:39):
So we're on the Antichrist.

Speaker 2 (01:23:41):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:23:42):
In Thessalonians, he does mention the man of
lawlessness.
Yeah, and this is going back towhat you said is he says the
man of lawlessness comes toperform false signs and wonders?

Speaker 2 (01:23:57):
Yeah, and healings and stuff.

Speaker 1 (01:23:58):
Yeah, and that's why I think, and it's mostly the
charismatic movement that isdoing it.
I'm sure there's other sectionsof Christianity, but right now
I'm just going to say thecharismatic movement, because
it's the only one I know.

Speaker 2 (01:24:10):
Yeah don't.

Speaker 1 (01:24:19):
I know, yeah, they're so focused on healings and
prophetic words and tongues thatI think that is the way that
the antichrist is going to beushered in, because like, yeah,
you make this whole generationjust obsessed with those things
because they are like.
They'll say they go out andpreach the gospel and talk about
sin and and I'm sure they do,but you have to ask them about
that.
Usually, when they're talkingabout it, they're like man I
experienced God and it was soawesome and he healed so many

(01:24:43):
people.

Speaker 2 (01:24:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:24:44):
And they, they're Wow .

Speaker 2 (01:24:47):
Doggies.

Speaker 1 (01:24:48):
Dogs are fighting and they they're.

Speaker 2 (01:24:56):
they almost sound like high when they talk about
it.
That's kind of weird andthey're super happy and they're
like are you, are you here?

Speaker 1 (01:24:59):
yeah, it's just like kind of it's a little
off-putting sometimes it'salmost like they.

Speaker 2 (01:25:05):
Sometimes they they self-centered to themselves.
They're like I can help thisperson and instead of like you
know, god works through me, it'smore like, oh, I can do this,
you know, yeah, yeah, like, ifyou ever go to those like
worship sessions I used to thatI used to go to like all the
time.
Not that those are bad I'm notsaying those are bad, right but

(01:25:28):
I'm saying like, when peoplelike come over and pray for you,
they're like I'm going to helpthis person.
You know, it's like maybe I'mjust figuring it out, dude Like
I'm good, like you know, haveyou ever told somebody that you
actually don't need prayer?
No, but I felt like that, youknow, like you ever feel like
that, Like you're like dude I'mgood, like I'm praying and it's
fine, don't touch me.

Speaker 1 (01:25:56):
You touch me, you know this don't touch my back.
You know, this girl came to meat one of the conferences.
Yeah, she's like.
Hey, I just felt like I had.
I was supposed to pray for you.
Is there anything on your mind?
And I was just like, no,there's not.

Speaker 2 (01:26:07):
I can't think of anything you just straight
straight say to her like no,yeah no.
Like like oh, don't pray for me, yeah no, get out get out, get
out of here.

Speaker 1 (01:26:19):
She ended up not doing it because I just was like
I don't know really off-putting, you know yeah, I was like, I'm
not gonna just like justbecause you camp and said, said
that doesn't mean that it's trueyeah, why don't you just go
over there and pray for me?
that it's true.
Yeah, why don't you just goover there and pray for me from
a distance?
But these people, sometimesthey come off as like kind of

(01:26:43):
like high like we were talkingabout almost off-putting and
kind of like self-centered, yeah, and it just seems like their
focus is just on the miraclesand the gifts, not the miracle
worker, right?
And so I think that is one ofthe ways that the man of

(01:27:03):
lawlessness, or the Antichristspirit, is going to be ushered
in and people are going toworship it, even in the church.
Because, when this person comesor this movement comes and, who
knows, maybe even like the hypercharismatic movement, is the
antichrist.
I don't know, cause we talkabout it as like a movement.

Speaker 2 (01:27:23):
Yeah, Movement or org could be an organization.
Organization, yeah, yeah, I.
I really think the theantichrist would not as a person
but as an idea would come andlook like the church.
What better, ever twisted waythat Satan can do it right.

Speaker 1 (01:27:46):
Yeah, because we think that Satan is spending all
his time at the Satanic templeor Las Vegas.

Speaker 2 (01:27:53):
He's already won them over.
Yeah, he's already won themover.

Speaker 1 (01:27:54):
He doesn't need to spend his time at, like, the
satanic temple or las vegas.
He's already won them over.
Yeah, he's already won like.
Yeah, he's already won themover.
He doesn't need to spend histime there, right, the people
that he wants is the christiansright, and if I can deceive one,
I can, or a group of many yeahjust kind of scary to think
about, which I think in thefuture, I think it will be like
a church versus a church.

Speaker 2 (01:28:15):
You won't be like.
It won't be church versusgovernment really anymore.
I think it will be a churchtrying to destroy, like the
correct church you know what Imean.
And they're like whoa, it's ourreligious belief.

Speaker 1 (01:28:29):
I think it's going to be the Catholics.

Speaker 2 (01:28:33):
I don't know.
I think some Catholics might begoing to heaven, Some, oh yeah
me too.

Speaker 1 (01:28:39):
I don't think all of them are like super whack, just
like some non-denominationalsare whack.

Speaker 2 (01:28:48):
Some of them yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:28:52):
But I think, because you think it's going to be a
church versus church, that'sinteresting yeah, yeah, we're
one.

Speaker 2 (01:29:00):
One church is trying to destroy the other.
I mean, you kind of already seethat with like um you do.

Speaker 1 (01:29:05):
It's like the reformed versus charismatic
right now.

Speaker 2 (01:29:08):
Oh, I was gonna say the middle east wants to destroy
christians in general, like thebuddhists and stuff or not?
Muslim muslim yeah, wrongreligion, but that's not church
though, but it is to them I meanit's a religion yeah, that's
true I mean I don't know thatalready did kind of happen with

(01:29:31):
the Crusades.
That is true.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Or the governments are justgoing to be like, no, you can't
do Christianity anymore, andit's like, oh well, we're doing
that.
You're going to have to figureit out.

Speaker 1 (01:29:46):
The thing is is Christianity grows?

Speaker 2 (01:29:50):
When people say don't do that.
Yeah, that's true.

Speaker 1 (01:29:57):
That's how it is in china.
It's actually kind of sad here,because in china they're not
allowed to worship, but they getup at 4 30 every day and
worship for like two hours everyday.
Yeah, and then here it's.
We can barely make it on sunday.
And then we wonder why amer iscrumbling yeah, it's true, like
the pastors always make jokes.

(01:30:19):
Oh, you know, we're going to behere till 2 PM today and it's
just like, and everyone's like,maybe we should be yeah exactly,
and like everybody's likerelieved that he's joking, right
, but at the same time't sundaysupposed to be or not even
necessarily sunday but thesabbath supposed to be the day

(01:30:42):
that we take in, rest andworship?
Yeah, but on our sabbath we'rewatching for mowing lawns.
Mowing lawns it's weird.
There's games now like baseballgames in town that you're gonna
say, that's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:30:53):
there's games now like baseball games in town.
I thought you were going to sayit's weird, there's gay people
now Like I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (01:30:57):
you said games, but sorry, but you got to take that
out, nope.
It's leaving an uncensoredwe're in trouble now.

Speaker 2 (01:31:04):
Yes, uncensored.
I'm going to make you censor.
I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (01:31:09):
We're probably already canceled from our last
episode anyway, you really thinkso.
No, dang, when I think about it, it wasn't really that bad.
It was just like fun.

Speaker 2 (01:31:20):
Yeah, you reminded me , though I ran into like, not a
cult, I wouldn't say a cult, butlike what are those that are
like our fatheroseph or whatever, and they have different names
saint joseph or whatever?
You?
Know they're catholics no, butit's not.

(01:31:41):
It wasn't that one, it wasn'tcatholic.
It was like out in middle ofnowhere, dude, and they built
like a huge, like complex, bro,and I just went to visit because
I was like I'm kind of curiousand I knew there was coffee
there.
Wait, where was this?
It was in.

Speaker 1 (01:31:58):
I think it was in New Mexico.
Okay, so it's not Mormon,because Mormons don't drink
coffee.

Speaker 2 (01:32:06):
Yeah, they definitely drink coffee, Mormons.
No, no, no, I'm saying at thisplace oh right, I have like
pictures of it.
It's like huge, like it's StSomething.

Speaker 1 (01:32:16):
I don't remember what it was Catholic cathedral.

Speaker 2 (01:32:19):
I don't think it's Catholic.

Speaker 1 (01:32:21):
Cause usually Catholics are like named after
St Something.

Speaker 2 (01:32:25):
But I talked to the guy there for like a while and
he was like, oh yeah, this isour like sect, I guess, whatever
.
And he's like, yeah, I've beenhere since I was like 19.
He was like I don't know, hewas close to my age and, uh,
they like give up everything,like all of their money,
everything.
What the heck?

Speaker 1 (01:32:45):
was that.
I'm just like.
I don't know if that banging is.
It's probably just like peopleliving.

Speaker 2 (01:32:51):
Yeah, like people living.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
yeah, hopefully um I really don't think we're being
that loud.
I didn't think we were no butmaybe we should.
No, it's really not that loudlisten to it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:59):
Yeah, I have no idea how.

Speaker 1 (01:33:00):
No, I don't think we're being that loud.
Continue.
Do you think that maybe it wasjehovah's witness?
They?

Speaker 2 (01:33:05):
drove cars.
Though they drove car, theygave up everything, but like to
live there but, maybe amish.
It wasn't amish, because amishdrive buggies, right.
But even some of them had a job, like one guy had a job at auto
parts and he was saying, yeah,you come here like at auto zone
place, yeah, just like so randomum I saw it on the side of his

(01:33:29):
truck it said auto zone.
That's why, as it drove by, um,but they kind of just like come
and they have like certain giftsand they like give into, like
the society.
They pretty much make their ownsociety there and, uh, build
all the structures that arethere.
But what struck me was like howdevoted they were, because they

(01:33:52):
go through psalms, all of thePsalms, in a single week.
That's a lot.
That's like 150, right, yep?
So I think they must do like Idon't know 36 a day.
And then he was talking aboutlike yeah, we have like morning,
afternoon, you know, afternoonand night mass or whatever it is

(01:34:12):
, or you know whatever, soundingmore and more catholic every
time.
I don't know if it's mass, Idon't know if he said mass or or
like he was like you can golisten in, and they were like
chanting and stuff like, and notlike chanting, but it was like
singing, ish.
Yeah, like that, like, likereally weird, like.

(01:34:32):
But I just, but I just admiredtheir devotion to it.
Yeah, but they had their ownbook.
It wasn't the Bible, so I knowit wasn't like.
That's how I knew it wasn'tCatholic Because they had their
own book.

Speaker 1 (01:34:50):
Catholics have the Torah, though I think they read
the.

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
Torah.
It's weird I think they uselike all of them, though I think
they read the.
It's weird I think they uselike all, all of them, though,
like they read all, like thetorah, the, um, they have their
own and then they have.
I think they read the bible too.
So it's like it's kind of weird.
I'm like this is a in between,but they act like this guy and I
don't know.
It's like saint george or saintpeter or something like that.

(01:35:15):
Um is like their savior, likejesus christ is for us, like
they act the same way you knowwhat I mean joseph smith.

Speaker 1 (01:35:24):
Maybe that's joseph okay, this one's hard, because
that sounds mormon, becausemormons have their own book yeah
, maybe, maybe it is Mormon.
And maybe some of them drinkcoffee and they always have very
nice temples.

Speaker 2 (01:35:40):
And the guys and the girls were separate dorms too,
like it's not like you marriedand you get like a you know a
woman or whatever.
They had separate dorms Anyways.

Speaker 1 (01:35:57):
That sounds Mormon, and especially because it's in
New Mexico, which is close toUtah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:02):
Yeah, maybe it is.

Speaker 1 (01:36:03):
But a lot of Mormons don't drink coffee, but they do
have their own book, mormon, theBook of Mormon, and they still
think that Jesus is savior.
But they give sorry, they giveJoseph Smith, like they put them
very high yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
Maybe it's just like a lead off of that and they kind
of keep, keep other things,like they kind of create their
own little society.

Speaker 1 (01:36:32):
Do you have a picture of it that we can look up after
this?

Speaker 2 (01:36:35):
Yeah, okay.

Speaker 1 (01:36:37):
Yeah, I would have to search a little bit, but I'll
put it in the description, likewe discussed this at this time.
This is what it is Cause we'renot going to we're not going to
find it right now.

Speaker 2 (01:36:46):
What'd you just do?

Speaker 1 (01:36:49):
I muted my mic.

Speaker 2 (01:36:50):
Oh, I thought you muted mine because all of a
sudden I cut out.
Yeah, nah, okay, I did not cutyou out.
Anyways, where were we goingwith that?
We keep on getting off topic.
I don't think we were gettingoff topic, or not off topic, but
I guess it was a story aboutwhat you were saying.

Speaker 1 (01:37:12):
It was a branch off of what.

Speaker 2 (01:37:18):
We were talking about a bunch of other religions Like
oh, whether we thought Baptistswere like or Catholic were
going to be.
Right yeah, going to go toheaven.

Speaker 1 (01:37:30):
I didn't say whether or not they were going to go to
heaven.
I thought it was going to be aCatholic church coming for the
regular church, because Catholicchurch actually means universal
.

Speaker 2 (01:37:43):
Yeah, which is pretty creepy, yeah, but I feel like
they have had this fight for along time.

Speaker 1 (01:37:52):
For about 500-something years, because the
Reformation happened.

Speaker 2 (01:37:55):
Yeah, where there's just like different branches,
you know, non-denominationalCatholic.

Speaker 1 (01:38:01):
Non-denominational is a denomination.

Speaker 2 (01:38:05):
That's what I'm saying.
Yeah, and there's BaptistReformed.

Speaker 1 (01:38:11):
Lutheran Presbyterian Promise Keepers.

Speaker 2 (01:38:18):
Black Lives Matter.
Oh my God, Just kidding.
Yeah, well, that's about it.
You can't say that.

Speaker 1 (01:38:26):
I'm not censoring you .
All right, Some people aregoing to hear and they're going
to judge you.
That's good, and they'reprobably going to be like Caleb,
you can't have Ethan Scottaround anymore.

Speaker 2 (01:38:36):
They just need Christ .

Speaker 1 (01:38:39):
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:38:45):
Oh, I was going to say that one Bible verse that
says like you will come in myname and like I'll say I never
knew you.
Yeah, then I'll say I never knewyou.
Yeah, then I'll say you never,I never knew you, like you
didn't know me, and I think Ifeel like that's more pointing
towards like actually having arelationship with christ instead

(01:39:07):
of like, like, like you saidbefore, like a lot of those
people almost use that and theydon't like look at God.
They more like they're likewho's the next person I can heal
?
How can I use this gift?

Speaker 1 (01:39:22):
You know, yeah, yeah, it's, definitely it's.

Speaker 2 (01:39:25):
So they're looking at the wrong thing.

Speaker 1 (01:39:27):
Yeah, and the thing is is they say they're in a
relationship, but their actionsdo not speak that.

Speaker 2 (01:39:35):
That's what I would say.

Speaker 1 (01:39:37):
That's where actions speak louder than words comes in
again, because they'll say likeoh, we love Jesus and all this,
but it's like but you'reagainst people suffering and
you're against this and that,and it's like people can suffer
and love jesus.
Yeah, it's like that thathappens happens frequently

(01:40:00):
actually.

Speaker 2 (01:40:00):
No, they have to have all their i's dotted and t's
crossed yeah, the book of ethanscuttleations well, I think
that's.
That's kind of why I had aproblem with that FOI woman at
Rez.
I'm not trying to down Rez oranything.
Cat's out of the bag.
Yeah, I have to now I mean theybring her there?

Speaker 1 (01:40:25):
Yeah, that's not us.

Speaker 2 (01:40:27):
But it's all prosperity gospel and you don't
necessarily need that.
You think you're going tobecome a christian and then all
of a sudden you're a millionaire.
Like no, you're still in yourcrap.
Like you're still, you mightstill be in the same economic
class.
And just because you're in thatlower economic class, sorry you
may still struggle with sin too.

Speaker 1 (01:40:48):
Yeah, like it's not just.
It seems like a lot of peopleput jesus onto this like magic
miracle.
Well, I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:40:59):
He is a miracle worker, but watch your words
right, god will come throughthis castle and strike you with
lightning.
You think that smell is hard.

Speaker 1 (01:41:11):
My lightning is harder anyways okay, uh, they
think he's, they just accept himand then boom, everything
changes right away.

Speaker 2 (01:41:26):
Yeah then I feel like people experience that and that
doesn't happen.
Then they're like well I'm, whydon't I need this?

Speaker 1 (01:41:35):
Yeah, I feel like it turns them away from.

Speaker 2 (01:41:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:41:37):
If you have someone up at the pulpit saying you're
coming to Jesus, you're going toget rich or your goals and
dreams are going to come true,yeah and they're like.
I want that.
Yeah, give me that.
I'll take Jesus right now.
Sign me up, give me the paper.

Speaker 2 (01:41:52):
Yeah, if I was in a desert and I needed water, I
would definitely take the waterRight.

Speaker 1 (01:42:02):
Like whatever I got to do, I'm in now and they
accept Jesus, and then none ofthat happens.
Yeah, and so then they getturned away from church and then
they go affirm everybody elsewho hates church yeah they're
like yeah, I went and they saidthis.
They're like see, I told you,that's how it was yeah and then

(01:42:24):
those people aren't going tocome.
So I feel like it's actuallylike hurting the church.
Yeah, but the thing is, havingpeople like that come into your
church brings money, it's true.

Speaker 2 (01:42:34):
Because people want to give and a lot of Granville
is kind of that way.
I mean, they're a pretty richarea, let's be honest.

Speaker 1 (01:42:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:42:44):
Except for, maybe, where you live.

Speaker 1 (01:42:50):
You're on the edge.
Yeah, I'm like, I'm on that onthat.
Uh, that the different margin,not margin, mart, what is it
margin?

Speaker 2 (01:42:58):
I can't believe I just said the fake butter thing
on the line, I don't know.

Speaker 1 (01:43:01):
Yeah, margin a different margarine yeah
different, margarine notdifferent margin.
Dude, you got butter I can'tbelieve it's not butter, but
yeah, and I think like they.

Speaker 2 (01:43:14):
Now we should preface that with like saying like like
it does.
It does things spiritually, butnot necessarily like
metaphysically.
Like I feel like we should havea claim disclaimer in there
because if we're leaving that,how right where people might
take this and be like, wow,maybe I shouldn't be a christian
.
Like I feel like we should havea disclaimer in there because
we're leaving that out Rightwhen people might take this and

(01:43:36):
be like, wow, maybe I shouldn'tbe a Christian or something.
Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:43:40):
No, yeah, there's definitely the spiritual aspect
where you come to Jesus and youknow it's not that you no longer
want to sin.
You get to a point where you nolonger want to.
I think yeah, I don't think ithappens right away, but I think
when you walk with Jesus, aftersome time it's like it's no
longer a chore not to sin.

(01:44:01):
It actually feels good not toyeah, and I think that is a
spiritual thing.
I really do, yeah, but I thinkthat comes with time and so we
need to Amen, dude.

Speaker 2 (01:44:13):
Preach it.
Come on, I just Dude.
How are you not a pastor?
I do not want to be a pastor.
See, those are the people thathe chooses.

Speaker 1 (01:44:21):
Yeah, think about Moses.
Yeah, well, that was Moses'story, that ain't Caleb's.
But what do you?

Speaker 2 (01:44:29):
mean You're doing it right now, let's go.

Speaker 1 (01:44:32):
Not necessarily.

Speaker 2 (01:44:34):
Who says you can't do it through a podcast?
Sure, I mean, you're sort ofdoing it.

Speaker 1 (01:44:40):
Anyways, you were saying I don't remember what I
was saying.
This is a terrible person.

Speaker 2 (01:44:46):
Just interrupting you in the middle of your rant,
dude.

Speaker 1 (01:44:52):
I was saying we need to.
There needs to be when you'reteaching the gospel, like you
need to teach.
That's the importance ofreading, like how this began.
Yeah, the whole New Testament,let's go.
Yeah, back to the beginning.
Wow, wow, wow.
You have to read the whole NewTestament, because I think when

(01:45:14):
you're leaving certain parts out, because Paul talks about it, I
think in Romans, he's like Iknow what I'm not supposed to do
, but I do what.
I don't want to do, somethinglike that.

Speaker 2 (01:45:27):
I don't know exactly what the verse is yeah, I think
I read that not too long ago.
I don't know where it is but Idon't remember.
Cause I don't remember ever.

Speaker 1 (01:45:39):
But he's like.
He's saying like I know, I knowlike I'm not supposed to do
this, but I want to do this.
Like I I'm not supposed to sin,but I want to like he's kind of
explaining the process ofcoming to Jesus and I think if
we taught more in depth of NewTestament but all the

(01:46:02):
megachurches that I have been toonly preach like those buzzword
verses like the popular ones.
Right, they don't teach reallythe brimstone and fire verses
that we think of, yeah, or evenjust like in-depth ones, like it
doesn't necessarily have to bebrimstone and fire.

Speaker 2 (01:46:20):
I feel like a lot of the New Testament is like
self-explanatory.
If you just said that in churchyou'd be good enough.

Speaker 1 (01:46:30):
You mean when you read it in context?

Speaker 2 (01:46:32):
Yeah.
Like literally just read it itlike that's all you have to do,
like it's that simple.

Speaker 1 (01:46:41):
I don't know, but you don't even have to explain it
right, but you do when you readit out of context and then they
make up what they wanted to sayyeah and then it's the wrong
message yeah, yeah, I I feelgetting back to the gospel, you
know is?
I don't.

Speaker 2 (01:47:01):
I feel I feel afraid for the church that I'm at now
because, like peace church outin granville is getting bigger
or in granville in middlevilleis getting bigger and it's like
man, I just I don't want it togo down the same roads that I've
seen other bigger churches goand once they get bigger they
look at the money, or-.

Speaker 1 (01:47:22):
Yeah, and they don't want to anger as many people,
because they want that revenuecoming in when I'm like I just
hope they stay with the gospelfirst and they have.

Speaker 2 (01:47:33):
And even when I got back was like the first one week
that I got back he was justlike he brought up the gospel
like in the message and I waslike, yep, this is where I'm
meant to be.

Speaker 1 (01:47:46):
So right now it's still good, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:47:49):
In other words, I'm saying like right now there's
still even this.
This last Sunday he brought upJesus on the cross again.
It was like, yeah, he puts itin every single one.
Bringing it back to the gospel.
Yeah, why is this important?
Bring it back to the gospel.

Speaker 1 (01:48:04):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:48:04):
Because when you don't, it's not preaching, it's
true.
It's your opinion.

Speaker 1 (01:48:10):
Yeah, and we're not looking at Jesus at that point,
we're looking at ourselves.

Speaker 2 (01:48:15):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:48:16):
And and there is it doesn't mean that it's going to
fail just because it's growing,because there is some mega
churches that still hold to atrue biblical gospel.
It is possible.
So I I think there's hope forpeace church.
As far as the church that I goto, he said he doesn't want to

(01:48:37):
expand the church that he's at.

Speaker 2 (01:48:39):
He wants to make another branch because he likes
being able to know everybody inhis congregation yeah, I mean
Peace did that once and theystill grew up too big where
they're expanding the building.

Speaker 1 (01:48:54):
I'm sure it happens, but I'm thinking he's probably
going to make it more local.

Speaker 2 (01:49:00):
What do you mean?
You mean for your church, right.

Speaker 1 (01:49:05):
He's probably not thinking I'm going to build one
out in Holland.
You might build one close toByron Center again and just have
it be Keep it real.

Speaker 2 (01:49:16):
Close Center again yeah, and just have it be Keep
it real close, yeah, and thenhave another pastor, just have
it next door, be like that's oursouth campus, this is our north
campus.
Right, we're going to build theeast and west someday.

Speaker 1 (01:49:29):
But it is really nice when you have that small
congregation, because everybodyknows each other.
The pastor knows everybody.
I mean, baptisms are a hugedeal.
The pastor himself gets in thewater and has somebody come in
and the person that's gettingbaptized is dressed in a big

(01:49:51):
white gown and they say theirname and everything, and it's
like a very personal andintimate experience.
Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, and I don't think hewants to ruin that, I think he
wants to keep that, yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:50:02):
Can I bring up something kind of on the same
topic but a little bit different?
No, oh, okay, yeah, you can.
Thanks, caleb.
What do you think about?
Even in your church?
Or like we talked about res, wetalked about peace, like who is
a successor?
Like do you think that theycome to a problem when it's like

(01:50:23):
like I don't know how old yourpastor is.
Is he getting older or not?
Really he's like a kind ofyoung guy to be maybe 40 ish.
Okay, so he's about 100, um,just kidding.
Uh, okay, 40 that's.
That's still pretty young, Idon't know, I guess res like a

(01:50:44):
little older but even I look atpeace too, like he's probably
close to his 40s, but I stillthink about it.
I'm like who's gonna take thisover?
Like who going to take thatbaton?

Speaker 1 (01:50:54):
you know, yeah, is that what you're asking, like,
who's going to take it?

Speaker 2 (01:50:59):
Yeah, yeah.
Do you think they're settingthemselves up to have a good
successor that's going to do thesame stuff?
I guess, and sometimes I don'tfeel that, like in peace, like
I'm like man, this one's gone.

Speaker 1 (01:51:17):
You know, as we stand today?
Yes, I do.

Speaker 2 (01:51:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:51:23):
Because they've had youth like youth takeover, where
, like the youth preaches andthe, the kid in the youth was
preaching, it was like oh, hewas like.

Speaker 2 (01:51:35):
Oh, he was like that's pretty good we might have
something here.

Speaker 1 (01:51:40):
I remember one of the lines that he used was he was
preaching on the talents.
Yeah, he's like, and if youdon't use the talents that God
gives you, well, it's notlooking good for you, and he
didn't know how to exactly putit into words but I mean that
made enough sense to me.

(01:52:01):
Yeah, right, and so as of rightnow, I think that that years is
good, that good to go yeah,good to go, but it just seems
like the more time passes, themore every church around me is
starting to fall yeah withtheological issues or, like the
pastor, has some weird moralissue yeah, I feel like as as

(01:52:23):
churches, we don't reallyaddress that

Speaker 2 (01:52:26):
in general address what that if you fail, like,
let's just say, a pastor has anaffair, yeah, we just kick him
out, what do?
You think should be done?
Why is there no like helpinghim to get better?
You know what I mean?
Yeah, Like.

(01:52:46):
I feel like the church shouldbe like a hospital.
We come to help you.
Instead, we treat it like aprison.
Guess what you're?
You're outcast.
Well, I don't know, maybe aprison is bad.
You're locked up for the restof your life.

Speaker 1 (01:53:05):
You're never getting back in here well, I guess the
next question in that is likeshould they come back to the
pulpit?

Speaker 2 (01:53:13):
I don't know necessarily say right away.
Obviously I think, yeah, takingsome time, yeah, they should
just be a congregation memberfor a while.
Yeah, because they have to behumbled and almost relearn and
getting just people back on theright page, where it's like, yep
, I messed up, it's going totake a while to get me back,

(01:53:33):
maybe five years, whatever but Ifeel like we just kick people
out or get a story talked aboutus and it's like I don't feel
like God would just, you know, Idon't think Jesus would just do
that, you know.
Just be like, yep, nope, you'renot good, you know.
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:53:53):
Yeah, yeah, I think they should go through some type
of counseling, becauseobviously you need counseling if
you go doing it there Likethat's usually like a huge
integrity issue For sure, andthen spiritually you were not

(01:54:14):
doing well if you did that.
Yeah, I don't think.

Speaker 2 (01:54:17):
And not even maybe not even come back to the pulpit
, but like you're literallyoutcast from the church.
That's what I'm saying, likewhere it's just totally drastic,
where all this, you know, andmaybe they take a break from
even being on staff for a while.
Yeah, but bringing them back tothe church staff for a while,
yeah, but bring them back to thechurch.
This is your home.

Speaker 1 (01:54:38):
Yeah, I don't think that they should be outcast.
I think that's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:54:41):
But I feel like a lot of churches do that Really you
don't, or society kind ofoutcasts them like, plays them
as a real bad guy.

Speaker 1 (01:54:52):
Of course society's going to Well, yeah, that's's
true, I can't change that I justknow, uh, like matt chandler
had that thing and he does, didwe?

Speaker 2 (01:55:05):
watch that video.
Is that the guy that we watchedthat video with at eli's like a
long time ago, that he was liketalking or texting some girl,
some lady and he was married?

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
Is that?

Speaker 2 (01:55:19):
is that that story?
Yeah, yeah, like that guy, Ifeel like didn't, didn't he get
outcast like pretty hard or itwas like I don't think, so I
think he did.

Speaker 1 (01:55:29):
I think they were like telling him to step down
and they were going to like workwith them.

Speaker 2 (01:55:36):
Yeah and everything, but they worked with them Okay.

Speaker 1 (01:55:40):
I think in that situation it was how they did it
right.

Speaker 2 (01:55:44):
Yeah, yeah, and that's one example.
But who was it?
Elevation Church, I think.
Yeah, wasn't it an elevationchurch that they had like that
big scandal, like the two headpastors Hillsong oh, hillsong,

(01:56:05):
is that what I'm saying.
Yeah, wrong stuff.
Oh yeah, watch that documentaryyeah, yeah, where it's just
like I get that you're pushingpretty hard and I understand
that, but like didn't he gettotally like chopped off?
I thought he did in that, Ithink so, like not only from

(01:56:29):
society, but the church probablyjust like.

Speaker 1 (01:56:31):
Yeah, which I think the church is in that sense
caving to society.
Yeah, because society wantsthem to kick that past route,
like, oh, he did so wrong, heshould not be part of you at all
, get rid of him.
Yeah, and so really like thechurches falling to society and

(01:56:53):
doing what they want to do toappease them when in reality.
They should have taken him inand said and work with them,
yeah, like, let him just be likea congregation member, like he
can attend church, but he's noton staff right now yeah but I
agree, yeah, I think they didn'tdo that because they want to
please the world, which is crazyto think about.

Speaker 2 (01:57:14):
Yeah, and it's just having an internal investigation
about it and then figure it out.
Figure it out, dude.

Speaker 1 (01:57:23):
Figure it out A little.

Speaker 2 (01:57:25):
Canadian there?
Yeah, Figure it out.
You know some people on thetrail.
They always say they alwaysthink that I'm from Canada.
Really yeah, Really yeah, why?
Cause they hear my Northernaccent.

Speaker 1 (01:57:39):
We have Northern accents.
Yeah, do I Hard, hard, yeah, soif I went somewhere they would
know.

Speaker 2 (01:57:50):
If you went somewhere , like somewhere where yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:57:53):
We're different.

Speaker 2 (01:57:54):
We don't say, like a boot, though, a beat, a beat, a
beat about it would be likeabout but when we were in
kentucky, those kids did notknow what we were talking about.

Speaker 1 (01:58:07):
Remember that, yeah, yeah, so that's true what do you
mean?

Speaker 2 (01:58:11):
they didn't?
Oh, we talk fast.

Speaker 1 (01:58:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:58:14):
That's what it is.
We talk really fast and theytalk a little bit slower down
south.
They got the drawl.

Speaker 1 (01:58:20):
They got that laid-back drawl, Just like when
we were playing Euchre and thatDNR guy was just like oh, you
guys got some cards going.
Well, nobody's in trouble here.
We just were talking about howwe're having like some more
exploration from caves tomorrow,the ones that are less popular,
and he was just like reallynice, yeah, not like the dnr

(01:58:43):
here, which is okay.

Speaker 2 (01:58:44):
You guys got to keep it down that was totally funny
when he said that, like Ilaughed internally.
I was like it was I didn'tthink I was in trouble.
Anyways, we'd probably get upand beat your, anyways.

Speaker 1 (01:58:57):
Normally, when the DNR is approaching at a campsite
, it's like you're being tooloud, or something.

Speaker 2 (01:59:02):
Oh, yeah, yeah, that's true.
So, I think that's why he liedwith that.
Oh yeah, he told us about someviewing thing.
Yeah, yeah, now I remember whatyou're talking about.
What was I talking?
Oh, our S's, we say them reallyhard, like when we sing.
You'll notice it if you go to achurch service and you'll just

(01:59:23):
hear the S's, like you won'tstop hearing that.
And then our T's and our D'sare like kind of like hard too,
like we emphasize them a lot.

Speaker 1 (01:59:33):

Speaker 2 (01:59:37):
Well, especially singing with the s, but maybe
not as much with the t's and d's.

Speaker 1 (01:59:39):
I feel like my t's aren't that hard, because if I
say like heart, I'm gonna belike yeah t my heart heart my
heart hurts heart yeah, but mostpeople say heart.

Speaker 2 (01:59:50):
I don't though, and and so like that hard T or hard
Hard.

Speaker 1 (01:59:58):
If something's hard, you have that, I don't.
If something's hard, I'm goingto be like, oh, that's hard.

Speaker 2 (02:00:06):
I'm saying most, most Michigan people do In the asses
, especially the asses, like wehave hard asses like snake,
snake, snake.
Yeah, and I'm saying that'shard ass.

Speaker 1 (02:00:22):
I'm saying I don't have a hard t or d okay I think
you do but okay, if I, but likeI'm saying like, oh, you hurt me
, that's not a hard T, yeah,this would be.
You hurt me, would be.

Speaker 2 (02:00:44):
But if I'm like how I normally talk is oh, that hurt.
It's almost like a hurt.
Well, maybe you're just anomalythere, caleb.

Speaker 1 (02:00:50):
Yeah, maybe I am, you're just anomaly, yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:00:54):
Anyways, I went down.
I actually went down to, well,wait, what's in Kentucky?
I thought it was St Louis.
Wait, st Louis is Kentucky,isn't it?
Missouri?
Yeah, st Louis, missouri.
And there was Kentucky peoplethere, missionaries there, and
they were like, yeah, you havean accent.
And we were like we, you havean accent.
And we were like we think youhave an accent because you're

(02:01:14):
southern-ish, you know that likeslower.

Speaker 1 (02:01:19):
Yeah, kind of like y'all y'all and like all that,
yeah y'all.

Speaker 2 (02:01:23):
We conformed really quickly to Kentucky accent or
southern accent.
Like within a week, we wereonly down there for a week and
like when we came back, wesounded.
Like within a week we were onlydown there for a week and, like
when we came back, we soundedum.
So I went.
I used to go to um, a smallerchurch when I was younger.

(02:01:43):
It was right next to hutsville.
It's no longer there.
It used to be right next tohutsville high school, um.
But yeah, we went down therefor a mission trip just to help
out.
I mowed a bunch of lawns.
It was fun, nice.
Yeah.
So Florida?

(02:02:03):
No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker 1 (02:02:06):
Florida.

Speaker 2 (02:02:07):
Yeah, hurricane just because we were talking about
missionary work.
Hurricane Milton yeah, it'scrazy, so I want to go get some
B.

Speaker 1 (02:02:21):
That sounds kind of nice actually.

Speaker 2 (02:02:22):
Yeah, yeah, are we good here Do?

Speaker 1 (02:02:25):
you think yeah, we're two hours in.
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (02:02:27):
Did you have any other thoughts on any of the
conversation that we had left,or?

Speaker 1 (02:02:33):
I don't think so.
And if we did, we could alwayscover it another time yeah,
there's always more time.

Speaker 2 (02:02:38):
I can't wait to do this again, dude, seriously,
yeah, I was looking forward tothis, like all day, dude.
I was like driving and I waslike dude I'm gonna and I didn't
talk to anybody.
No, I'm just kidding, I justsay my words up for now.

Speaker 1 (02:02:52):
Yeah, well, like my, my throat is hurting because two
hours is a long time for me ohyeah, I'm good, I could probably
keep it going.

Speaker 2 (02:03:01):
If you really wanted to dude, stop I could too, but I
don't want to.

Speaker 1 (02:03:05):
I don't want to edit that much, like the last one
took a long time to edit.
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, so I, I'mgoing to Two hours is good for
now.

Speaker 2 (02:03:14):
You might have to edit that pause in the middle.
But what pause?
The one I was trying to look upthe crap.

Speaker 1 (02:03:21):
Yeah, we were talking during that.
It'll be fine People will havea nice little break.
It'll be a commercial break forthem.

Speaker 2 (02:03:27):
What the heck was that?
Was that even us?
I don't know that.
I don't know that, didn't evensound like us, dude, dude.
What if there's?
I started listening to like orstarted watching reels that were
like scary things and then Ihad that very bad, like
nightmares last night.
So don't do that right beforeyou go to bed that noise sounded

(02:03:48):
like it came from in here yeah,it did like it almost sounded
like it was that book over there.
I don't know not like it soundedlike it almost sounded like it
was that book over there.
I don't know not like itsounded like it came from
upstairs, unless something justfell over.
I don't know I don't know.
I'm gonna look around all right, everybody dude, there's a
ghost, we're haunted nextpodcast?

Speaker 1 (02:04:09):
just kidding, stefan and you yeah, anyway everybody.
Thanks for listening and have ablessed week bye love you.

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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}33. Alcohol, Tobacco, and Other Vices. We Also Talk About Ethans Trail Expedition and The Dangers of The Charismatic Movement. With Ethan Schutter

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CrimeLess: Hillbilly Heist

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33. Alcohol, Tobacco, and Other Vices. We Also Talk About Ethans Trail Expedition and The Dangers of The Charismatic Movement. With Ethan Schutter

Stuff You Should Know