Exploring Historical Illustrations and California's Cultural Heritage with David W. Rickman
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In the final installment of this interview series, historian and illustrator David W. Rickman delves into the history of Russians on Northern California's coast, his contributions to national and state parks, collaborations with the Smithsonian Institution, and his esteemed Sutter's Fort Costume Manual.
David also discusses his forthcoming book on clothing and material culture in the American West, 'Where Worlds Met.'
Throughout the conversation, Rickman highlights his endeavors in historical illustration, including his projects for Alviso Adobe, Fort Ross, and other national parks.
David reflects on nearly participating in a Hollywood Zorro series, emphasizing the importance and challenges of historical accuracy in visual storytelling. The episode is a treasure trove for history enthusiasts, offering rich insights into the cultural tapestry of early California and the American West.
00:00 Introduction to the Final Interview with David W. Rickman
01:01 David's Work in National and State Parks
05:27 Sutter's Fort Costume Manual and Upcoming Book
07:25 Challenges and Insights in Historical Costume Research
15:51 Illustrations and Projects for National Park Service
20:40 Hollywood and Historical Authenticity
24:40 Conclusion and Upcoming Events
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Damian Bacich (00:00):
Welcome to the third and final installment of
(00:03):
my interview with historian andillustrator, David w Rickman.
In this final episode, we getinto subjects such as the
Russians on the coast ofNorthern California.
David's work in national andstate parks all over the west
and the East coast as well, andhis work with the Smithsonian
(00:25):
Institution.
We also talk about hiswell-known Sutter's Fort costume
manual and his upcoming bookwhere Worlds met about clothing
and material culture in theAmerican West, which is
something I'm really lookingforward to reading.
So without further ado, let'ssit back and listen to the final
(00:48):
part of my interview with Davidw Rickman.
I am Damien Bass.
Welcome to California Frontier.
Are there other illustrationsthat we, that we should look at
and talk about?
David Rickman (01:05):
Please, please.
Um, yeah,
Damian Bacich (01:10):
Let's see.
Should we go on to the next onehere?
The
David Rickman (01:13):
yeah, so I've, I've had, I've been extremely
fortunate, you know, for years Iworked in exhibits for Delaware
State parks and I'm glad I didbecause, you know, little
pension and, and health benefitsfor the rest of my life.
Very helpful.
But since I took earlyretirement in 2010, I have been
(01:33):
very fortunate to have a lot ofreally wonderful assignments
come my way.
And one of the best was AlvisoAdobe, which was done by an ex,
uh, a company called CI Group,uh, in the North Bay area.
And they contacted me to dothis.
We met at the Aviso Adobe inMilita, and I.
(01:55):
These were a couple of theillustrations that came out of
that project.
It was, it was such fun toactually be able to sit in a
room and imagine what itmight've looked like in the
1840s.
And to actually put some of my,um, my research to use, uh, the
fact that, uh, men,'cause thesebuildings weren't heated, uh,
often sat in their, their cloaksand their hats, uh, while
(02:19):
indoors.
I mean, even Mariano Viejo hasdescribed doing that.
Um, and the, the clothing on thefigures on the right, uh, based
on my research, he's an olderman in the 1840s.
So he's wearing knee Bri, he'snot wearing the cals.
Um, his wife's dress,interestingly enough, is based
(02:39):
on a fragment of a dress that isin the Natural History Museum of
Los Angeles.
It's of most beautiful coppercolored silk satin, which I'm
afraid doesn't quite carry inthis illustration.
But, um.
It was something that I wantedto show because so much had been
(02:59):
said about, uh, what had beencalled the so-called Chino
Blanda look, which is, I'mpartly responsible for that.
Uh,'cause I thought it wascalled Chino Blanda when I first
started out decades ago.
It wasn't.
That was a phenomenon fromMexico.
Pet Coten and, and, uh, shamswere simply Petco and shams in
(03:20):
California.
But more importantly, in the1820s, California women of a
certain status began changingaway from the pet, coten chamise
and starting to wear dresses.
And so I wanted to make surethat we had pictures of women
wearing dresses in California,because that's so seldom is
shown in the pictures.
Um, or if they are shown,they're shown as these highly
(03:43):
ruffled monstrosities that noCalifornia woman would ever
wear.
But you know, the imagination ofsome illustrators, uh.
Go and, and movies go to thingsthat are, are somehow ruffles
mean Spanish.
I dunno why.
Maybe flamenco.
Damian Bacich (03:58):
Probably should we go to the next one?
David Rickman (04:02):
Yeah, please.
Damian Bacich (04:05):
Ah, here you are
David Rickman (04:06):
this is me many years ago.
As you can see at theSmithsonian, I'm photographing
a, uh, a cueta, which isactually made exactly like the,
the old cueta that were used.
I full size cues, I should say,that were used by the, uh, the
Spanish sold tota, uh, wherethey got their name.
funny thing about this one iseven though it was made of
(04:28):
multilayers, of white buck skinand um, and trimmed with red
cloth the way the originalsoften are, there was no way to
close it.
And if an adult wore it, itwould probably only come to
their hips.
So my guess is it would probablybe for a child.
And you come across from time totime articles of clothing that
(04:50):
are made like an adult, but fora child I've seen BOTAs, uh,
leather leggings, uh, worn by,uh, vaqueros Eros, and they are
made for a toddler.
And, and so that's what I thinkwe're looking at here.
But this was put in just to showthat I do go to museums.
(05:12):
I do look at real things becauseI think that's the only way to
get to the truth about uh, uh,what was actually worn or used.
And this is the first Californiahistory book, clothing book that
I, I did, which was the SutterFort Costume Manual.
(05:35):
Uh, and that was back in manyyears ago.
And it.
With my first attempt atseriously dealing with the
sources, the, the actualartifacts and the written, uh,
descriptions of whatCalifornia's, well, I mean,
there were many differentcultures represented in this,
including native Californiansand mountain men and US sailors
(06:00):
and so forth.
But this was my first effort toactually put it down in a
scholarly way, and it's thefirst one as far as I know, that
would ever by anyone thatattempted to handle this as a
serious scholarly subject.
I was able in 2012 to actuallyuse some of this information for
(06:21):
the, uh, the Sutter fort, Imean, I'm sorry, the Fort Ross,
uh, bicentennial in 2012.
But that was just one of manycostume programs that I've
actually designed.
And, uh, uh, it was fun toactually see, be able to, to see
it.
Done.
Well, I don't know what'shappened to these costumes if
(06:41):
they're still in use or not, butit was good to see it work once.
Um, but the frustration with theSuter Sport costume manual was
that I can do drawings of howthings were worn or what things
looked like, but the eyewitnesspictures, and there are so many
(07:03):
eyewitness pictures, uh, Iwould've liked to have included
in the costume manual, but therejust wasn't the budget or the,
the means to do it.
Um, since then, so much has comeout that museums you can find
online and you can find them forfree, which just wasn't
available back when the Su fortcostume manual first came out in
(07:24):
the 1990s.
So, uh, some years ago,California State Parks
approached me again to writeSutter Fort style costume
manuals for the entire statefor.
You know, each individual park.
And I said, uh, no, it's not,it's not many different costume
manuals.
It's one great big costumemanual of, of what was worn in
(07:46):
early California.
So if we go, I think to the nextslide.
This is the book.
It's where Worlds Met.
It's been promised for manyyears.
Sadly, we were almost ready tomake the big push to finish it
last year when the, the realforce behind the project, uh,
(08:07):
the lady who, um, originated itand even, and, and followed even
after she retired from St.
Parks, Karen be from San Diego,died unexpectedly about the
same, well, at the same timethat we were having the
conference in, uh, uh, at LaParisa model, uh, two years ago.
And so the whole project groundto a halt in 2024.
(08:30):
And.
The other person who was workingon it, uh, a wonderful
interpreter, uh, administrator,Heather Hol of California State
Parks.
Um, she was promoted to run allinterpretation in California, so
this little project kind of tookthe back shelf, so to speak,
(08:54):
rightly so, because she neededto get her, uh, get firmly in
control of what she was doing.
But luckily, uh, late last year,they contacted me and said, we
want to get it going again.
And, uh, at the time that I wasout for the conference this
year, um, I met with Heather in,uh, in Sonoma and we're moving
(09:15):
ahead with it, and I'd like topromise that it will be out this
year, but I promise that so manytimes that I would be
embarrassed to do it again.
But I think it's very likelythat it will be out this year.
This is the first volume.
Volume two will go from 1848.
Through the Gold Rush to 1860,by which time you have the
railroad coming in, and anythingthat they're wearing in New York
(09:39):
City, they're wearing inCalifornia.
So it's, it's not really worthdoing costume manuals for after
1860.
I, there are some illustrationsthat I did for it, which are on
the next slide, I believe, andhere's where I want to, where
this volume was fun because Iwas able to kind of break the
(10:01):
stereotypes.
My vaqueros in silhouette mightlook something like Joe Morris,
but in detail, they're verydifferent from Joe Morris.
You'll notice the, the types ofhats and the way the, um, the
leggings are and such.
They're very different from thatAlso with the women.
The first dresses that were wornin California as they're
(10:22):
described, they were verybizarre.
They were long and very tight,and the sleeves were actually.
Not connected to the dress, butheld on by shoulder straps,
which is very bizarre.
Um, but that's my reconstructionof, of what was worn there.
The idea is to, um, not overturnor break myths, but to show more
(10:47):
fully what it is, uh, that wasactually worn to the best of my
knowledge at this point.
Um, and my hope is that withthis book, which will outlast
me, um, it will serve as afoundation for someone to come
along in the future who has moreskills than I have, or new
(11:09):
sources of information that Idon't, and, and move this
subject forward if they can.
I, I really hope that they do.
I'm just sorry, I won't be hereto see it.
Um, but yeah, it's, it's been agreat, great project, this book.
And it wasn't just about.
California's, when I did boththe Sutter Sport Manual and this
(11:32):
one, it's about all non, uh,all, all people in, in, uh,
California at the time, otherthan traditionally dressed
Native Americans, which I havedealt with in in other
publication.
Um, so these are the Russiansfrom Fort Ross, uh, as he might
have appeared, including thepink shirt, which was recently
(11:53):
misinterpreted by a, uh, ascholar as being a silk shirt
because it's based on a, uh, uh,eyewitness testimony to one of,
of, um, Bancroft's interviewerswhere one of the soldiers, uh,
California soldiers stopped offat, at, um, bodega Bay.
And they were just coming infrom a campaign and the Russians
(12:17):
gave them shirt that the, theSpanish soldiers thought were
silk, when in fact what theywere, were polished cotton from
China and they were cherry red.
So that's what I've shown thisgentleman on the right wearing.
And I just wanted to say, thereason I've got the picture of
the Fort Ross, uh, coloring bookthere is that I've been
(12:39):
researching Russian Americancostume for about the same main,
uh, length of time as I have,um, uh, California clothing.
Uh, it's been harder, uh,because I don't speak Russian,
but interestingly enough, verylittle of the information, much
like in California where verylittle of the information about
California dress is in Spanish,not much about Russian dress is
(13:05):
available in Russian becauseit's kind of like, well, it's,
it is almost a rule that peopledon't set out and describe the
everyday, so Russian who come toAmerica, they might describe a
California, but they're notgonna describe the Parsis who
are working around them, the,the Russian workers, because.
(13:28):
They're just workers.
They're, they're, they're everyday.
And so, uh, a lot of the bestdescriptions of the Russian
American company employees arein French, German, and Spanish
and, and English, and not in,um, not in Russian.
Although there was one vitaldocument that I had to go down
(13:49):
to the Library of Congress toget that was in Latin.
And I had to pull out my highschool Latin and just beat my
brains over translating the partabout clothing in it.
But it was worth it.
So I'd said I had done thingsabout Native Californians.
Um, this is an illustration thatI did, uh, some years ago for
(14:12):
the Alviso project that wasn'tused.
But also years ago, I was giventhe opportunity to write an
entry and a multi-volume historyaddress that was published in
England, uh, by the Burke.
Company, the Berg Encyclopediaof World Dress and Fashion.
And so I wrote the chapter onCalifornia Indian dress for
(14:35):
that.
So that, you know, I'm ratherproud that I was able to, uh, to
leave that because I've not ableto include traditional
Californian dress in my, uh, mycostume manuals.
Damian Bacich (14:50):
I noticed the, the shawls that, uh, the women
are wearing, at least one of thewomen, they, and maybe you've
seen, they remind me of kumeyaayrabbit blankets I've seen at the
Museum of Man in San Diego.
David Rickman (15:07):
Well, they certainly should because that's
exactly what they are.
Uh, it's interesting, it kind ofwoven, uh, blanket and it is
woven.
What they do is they take theskins and they, they.
They string them out and theycut them into strings and then
they weave them and they havethe fur on them.
And so they're, they're warminside and out.
(15:27):
Uh, that style of, of blanket isworn all the way up to the
Arctic circle.
Um, very popular.
And so, yes, that's exactly whatthey're wearing.
It's also a good way of dealingwith the fact that when you're
illustrating for the generalpublic, you can't show naked
people because fourth gradersget the giggles.
(15:51):
And then I just wanted to showsome of the work that I did for
the, uh, national Park Service.
I've done a lot of work in, inthe last 15 years or so,
especially, I've done it foryears for the National Park
Service, but the last 15 yearsespecially,'cause I've been
working with an exhibit companyout of Los Angeles, Henley
Company, and we've done a numberof these.
This is actually a Santa Fetrail, uh, site in southern
(16:15):
Colorado, and it's showing whatare called comancheros.
They were new Mexicans who wouldgo out and trade with the
Comanches, and they often wouldtrade oh, blankets and, and uh,
coffee and sugar and things likethat for horses.
And the lower on the left handside is a picture of where this
(16:36):
sign can be seen.
And I like to joke that my artis seen in some of the most
desolate parts of America.
Um, this is out in the middle ofnowhere as many of my waysides
are.
Damian Bacich (16:52):
All right.
David Rickman (16:54):
And this is another one that I did, which
was for a cotton, uh, mill in,uh, Providence, Rhode Island.
And I, that was a, a great onebecause I got to crawl all over
this reconstructed mill.
And then I had to go home and,and, uh, uh, do a cutaway view
of it.
But I, I had to know how itworked before I could actually
(17:16):
do that drawing.
And so.
Uh, going all the way down towhere that mill wheel is and all
the way up to the top.
Uh, I was able to figure it out.
Brilliant bit of engineering,but not like anything that I do
for California.
And then I did this, which issome of my natural history
(17:38):
stuff, which I don't do oftenenough.
But these are prehistoric lionand wolf that is on display at
the, um, visitor center at, um,uh, in California for, um, for
one of the beach sites on thebeach parks.
Damian Bacich (17:57):
I'll have to go find
David Rickman (17:58):
the last, last one is actually one that I did
for, um, a Cherokee Indian site,the Sequoia Birthplace Museum in
Tennessee.
And give you an idea thatsometimes they'll do a little
illustration on your computer.
Or on paper.
(18:20):
And then, uh, they blew it upto, I think, at least twice life
size in order to make a muralout of it.
But again, this was sort thegreat project I got very
involved with how the Cherokeedressed and, you know, wearing
turbans and these kfan likecoats and such.
So unlike what we normallypicture American Indians
(18:42):
dressing, and yet I think we doa disservice to the, the
richness of Native Americanclothing and culture when we all
just assume that they worefeather head dresses and buck
skin.
Damian Bacich (18:56):
Right.
This is, this is fascinating tosee, and I guess there's one
more here.
David Rickman (19:03):
And this last one is just those two Facebook
pages.
Uh, the groups, the AltaCalifornia clothing that I
helped to administer, and thearts and skills of the Spanish
Borderlands, which.
To my amazement, uh, we're nowat more than 3000 members on the
arts and skills of the Spanishborderlands, and it grew far
beyond my expectations.
(19:24):
I thought we would just be asmall group, but we have members
as far away as Israel and, andAustralia that, uh, writing in
from time to time or at leasttuning in to see what what's
new.
Damian Bacich (19:38):
And I think that speaks to what we talked about
earlier, the, the, the latentinterest that there is out there
for these sorts of topics.
You know, people from Israel,3000 people that gather
together.
You know, I.
To, to discuss and learn aboutmaterial culture in the Spanish
(20:01):
borderlands of, of NorthAmerica.
It's, it's, and well, it's alsoa testament to you and the, the
precise and, um, robust workthat you do because you are
serious about what you do.
And, and so people know thatthat's a place where they're
gonna exchange seriousinformation.
David Rickman (20:23):
Well, well, thank you.
Um, it, it, it had been apleasure to, to do this and to
discover just how many peoplefind what you and I find
actively fascinating.
Equally fascinating.
Um, it's, it's very gratifying.
Damian Bacich (20:41):
you've never been tempted to work in Hollywood.
David Rickman (20:45):
Oh, yes.
And I, I'm sure you heard, ormaybe you didn't hear that.
I almost did.
Damian Bacich (20:54):
I don't think I knew about this.
David Rickman (20:56):
twice, I, I once, uh, I have a friend who is a
costume, a well establishedcostume designer in, in
Hollywood.
And years ago I went out andchatted with her and visited the
set of a film she was working onin session.
She's, she's really very wellestablished.
And, um, and after talking to mefor a while, she very kindly
(21:20):
said, David, you'd never survivein Hollywood because I don't
respect authenticity.
Um, she said, I can live withit.
I know how to bend it and all ofthat.
But, you know, she can also dovery authentic when she wants to
and when she's allowed to, butHollywood doesn't allow her to.
But a few years ago, thanks tomy connection with the Natural
(21:40):
History Museum in Los AngelesCounty, um, I was contacted by
people who wanted to do a newZorro series for the Disney
Channel.
And for a while there we lookedlike we were going to do it.
And the, the, uh, naturalHistory Museum History
Department actually recommendedme.
That's how we connected.
(22:02):
And I went out and visited themin, um, in Los Angeles and we
had breakfast together and wetalked about plots and costume
and such.
And as always, they assured methey wanted to be absolutely
authentic.
But you know, anytime you'redealing with history and
Hollywood, you have to take thatwith a very large dose of salt.
(22:22):
Um.
We got very close.
The only thing that happened wasthat, um, we had, um, the
Hollywood Writer Strike followedby the Hollywood Actor Strike,
and then a new series that camefrom Spain that appeared on, I
think Amazon of Zoro, which wasabsolutely atrocious.
(22:48):
I mean, pure, uh, game ofThrones level authenticity, and,
um, that pretty much killed theproject.
But yeah, if anyone out therewants a consultant on early
California costume, whether forZora or not, um, let me know.
(23:08):
Uh, or Old West generally.
Um, yeah, the, the, uh, thething about Hollywood is that
you really do have to know howto work with.
Both history and, uh, andproducers,
Damian Bacich (23:26):
Well, you never know who may be listening to
this.
I'm, we're watching this video.
I'm always surprised at at thereach it gets, so who knows?
David Rickman (23:37):
who knows?
Well, I, I would be verypleased.
Um, I think I've told you thoughthat, um, Zoro doesn't quite
make sense because Zoro is aranchero who's protecting the
rights of the missions and theIndians, which doesn't quite fit
with the history.
But, um, we were actually ableto, to overcome that in the way
(23:58):
we were doing the story.
Um, but yeah, it was, it was adisappointment.
It would've been fun to, uh, todo and see how far we could go
toward making it actually looklike 1830s California.
Damian Bacich (24:12):
Wow.
Well, I would be, I would loveto see that.
Hopefully it'll happen.
Who knows?
Who knows?
David Rickman (24:19):
Yeah, I mean, there has never been ne, well,
first of all, there's never beenan authentically costumed
western ever.
Um, so why should I expect thatthere would be an authentically
costumed film about earlyCalifornia?
Uh, that, that's I think askingtoo much.
Damian Bacich (24:38):
You're probably right.
Well, David, I, I took a lot ofyour time, but this is
fascinating.
Um, I'm looking forward tohearing more about the book.
Hopefully, hopefully it won't betoo long before it's out because
I think a lot of people wouldlove, would love it, not just
people who work for the stateparks or who are museum, uh,
(25:01):
curators, but I just think thevisual aspect is fills in a huge
gap conceptually for people whoare interested in history and
California history and just the,the, the background of our state
and the west in general, Ithink.
Right.
It's the whole, the whole west,because California really
(25:25):
shouldn't be seen in isolation.
It's part of this, this muchbroader, uh, geographical and
cultural area.
So I'm looking forward to thatand be waiting for ba with
beated breath for it.
Well, maybe I shouldn't waitwith beated breath, but be
waiting for it.
David Rickman (25:41):
Probably not.
Damian Bacich (25:42):
Right, right, right.
David Rickman (25:44):
Well, I'm also looking forward to, uh, next
year's conference and to seeingyou there.
Damian Bacich (25:50):
in Mission Dolores, for those of you who
don't know, uh, the CaliforniaMissions Conference will be at
Mission Dolores in SanFrancisco.
I think we'll be celebrating the250th anniversary.
Of the founding of Mission SanFrancisco, the Asis and the
Presidio of San Francisco,right?
1776.
(26:10):
So you've got time to plan forit now.
I believe it's the weekend ofApril 18th, but I will double
check that.
David Rickman (26:20):
We keep moving it back and forth from April to
February.
Damian Bacich (26:24):
Right.
David Rickman (26:25):
I hope it's in April.
I hope I, I do hope it's inApril.
Damian Bacich (26:28):
it is, it is, it is.
It's been, it's been nailed downfor April.
I think that the, the fee, whatI understand is the feedback
from this year was that people,that people like having it at
April rather than on thePresident's Day weekend, which
also happens to often coincidewith Valentine's Day.
So it, uh,
David Rickman (26:49):
as I did this year.
Damian Bacich (26:50):
right, right.
right.
David Rickman (26:53):
Well, I look forward to seeing you there.
Damian Bacich (26:54):
Likewise.
Well, thanks so much, David.
It's been great.
I,
David Rickman (26:59):
Thank you, Damien.
It is been an honor to, I'm, I'mvery, uh, flattered that you
asked me on.
I'm grateful.
This is the California FrontierShow.
If you would like to know moreabout the California Frontier
(27:21):
Project, visit Californiafrontier.net.
If you would like to support theshow, scroll down in the show
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Then be sure to tell all yourfriends about the podcast.
If you would like to connectwith me, the host, send me an
email atdamien@californiafrontier.net.
Welcome to the third and final installment of
(00:03):
my interview with historian andillustrator, David w Rickman.
In this final episode, we getinto subjects such as the
Russians on the coast ofNorthern California.
David's work in national andstate parks all over the west
and the East coast as well, andhis work with the Smithsonian
(00:25):
Institution.
We also talk about hiswell-known Sutter's Fort costume
manual and his upcoming bookwhere Worlds met about clothing
and material culture in theAmerican West, which is
something I'm really lookingforward to reading.
So without further ado, let'ssit back and listen to the final
(00:48):
part of my interview with Davidw Rickman.
I am Damien Bass.
Welcome to California Frontier.
Are there other illustrationsthat we, that we should look at
and talk about?
David Rickman (01:05):
Please, please.
Um, yeah,
Damian Bacich (01:10):
Let's see.
Should we go on to the next onehere?
The
David Rickman (01:13):
yeah, so I've, I've had, I've been extremely
fortunate, you know, for years Iworked in exhibits for Delaware
State parks and I'm glad I didbecause, you know, little
pension and, and health benefitsfor the rest of my life.
Very helpful.
But since I took earlyretirement in 2010, I have been
(01:33):
very fortunate to have a lot ofreally wonderful assignments
come my way.
And one of the best was AlvisoAdobe, which was done by an ex,
uh, a company called CI Group,uh, in the North Bay area.
And they contacted me to dothis.
We met at the Aviso Adobe inMilita, and I.
(01:55):
These were a couple of theillustrations that came out of
that project.
It was, it was such fun toactually be able to sit in a
room and imagine what itmight've looked like in the
1840s.
And to actually put some of my,um, my research to use, uh, the
fact that, uh, men,'cause thesebuildings weren't heated, uh,
often sat in their, their cloaksand their hats, uh, while
(02:19):
indoors.
I mean, even Mariano Viejo hasdescribed doing that.
Um, and the, the clothing on thefigures on the right, uh, based
on my research, he's an olderman in the 1840s.
So he's wearing knee Bri, he'snot wearing the cals.
Um, his wife's dress,interestingly enough, is based
(02:39):
on a fragment of a dress that isin the Natural History Museum of
Los Angeles.
It's of most beautiful coppercolored silk satin, which I'm
afraid doesn't quite carry inthis illustration.
But, um.
It was something that I wantedto show because so much had been
(02:59):
said about, uh, what had beencalled the so-called Chino
Blanda look, which is, I'mpartly responsible for that.
Uh,'cause I thought it wascalled Chino Blanda when I first
started out decades ago.
It wasn't.
That was a phenomenon fromMexico.
Pet Coten and, and, uh, shamswere simply Petco and shams in
(03:20):
California.
But more importantly, in the1820s, California women of a
certain status began changingaway from the pet, coten chamise
and starting to wear dresses.
And so I wanted to make surethat we had pictures of women
wearing dresses in California,because that's so seldom is
shown in the pictures.
Um, or if they are shown,they're shown as these highly
(03:43):
ruffled monstrosities that noCalifornia woman would ever
wear.
But you know, the imagination ofsome illustrators, uh.
Go and, and movies go to thingsthat are, are somehow ruffles
mean Spanish.
I dunno why.
Maybe flamenco.
Damian Bacich (03:58):
Probably should we go to the next one?
David Rickman (04:02):
Yeah, please.
Damian Bacich (04:05):
Ah, here you are
David Rickman (04:06):
this is me many years ago.
As you can see at theSmithsonian, I'm photographing
a, uh, a cueta, which isactually made exactly like the,
the old cueta that were used.
I full size cues, I should say,that were used by the, uh, the
Spanish sold tota, uh, wherethey got their name.
funny thing about this one iseven though it was made of
(04:28):
multilayers, of white buck skinand um, and trimmed with red
cloth the way the originalsoften are, there was no way to
close it.
And if an adult wore it, itwould probably only come to
their hips.
So my guess is it would probablybe for a child.
And you come across from time totime articles of clothing that
(04:50):
are made like an adult, but fora child I've seen BOTAs, uh,
leather leggings, uh, worn by,uh, vaqueros Eros, and they are
made for a toddler.
And, and so that's what I thinkwe're looking at here.
But this was put in just to showthat I do go to museums.
(05:12):
I do look at real things becauseI think that's the only way to
get to the truth about uh, uh,what was actually worn or used.
And this is the first Californiahistory book, clothing book that
I, I did, which was the SutterFort Costume Manual.
(05:35):
Uh, and that was back in manyyears ago.
And it.
With my first attempt atseriously dealing with the
sources, the, the actualartifacts and the written, uh,
descriptions of whatCalifornia's, well, I mean,
there were many differentcultures represented in this,
including native Californiansand mountain men and US sailors
(06:00):
and so forth.
But this was my first effort toactually put it down in a
scholarly way, and it's thefirst one as far as I know, that
would ever by anyone thatattempted to handle this as a
serious scholarly subject.
I was able in 2012 to actuallyuse some of this information for
(06:21):
the, uh, the Sutter fort, Imean, I'm sorry, the Fort Ross,
uh, bicentennial in 2012.
But that was just one of manycostume programs that I've
actually designed.
And, uh, uh, it was fun toactually see, be able to, to see
it.
Done.
Well, I don't know what'shappened to these costumes if
(06:41):
they're still in use or not, butit was good to see it work once.
Um, but the frustration with theSuter Sport costume manual was
that I can do drawings of howthings were worn or what things
looked like, but the eyewitnesspictures, and there are so many
(07:03):
eyewitness pictures, uh, Iwould've liked to have included
in the costume manual, but therejust wasn't the budget or the,
the means to do it.
Um, since then, so much has comeout that museums you can find
online and you can find them forfree, which just wasn't
available back when the Su fortcostume manual first came out in
(07:24):
the 1990s.
So, uh, some years ago,California State Parks
approached me again to writeSutter Fort style costume
manuals for the entire statefor.
You know, each individual park.
And I said, uh, no, it's not,it's not many different costume
manuals.
It's one great big costumemanual of, of what was worn in
(07:46):
early California.
So if we go, I think to the nextslide.
This is the book.
It's where Worlds Met.
It's been promised for manyyears.
Sadly, we were almost ready tomake the big push to finish it
last year when the, the realforce behind the project, uh,
(08:07):
the lady who, um, originated itand even, and, and followed even
after she retired from St.
Parks, Karen be from San Diego,died unexpectedly about the
same, well, at the same timethat we were having the
conference in, uh, uh, at LaParisa model, uh, two years ago.
And so the whole project groundto a halt in 2024.
(08:30):
And.
The other person who was workingon it, uh, a wonderful
interpreter, uh, administrator,Heather Hol of California State
Parks.
Um, she was promoted to run allinterpretation in California, so
this little project kind of tookthe back shelf, so to speak,
(08:54):
rightly so, because she neededto get her, uh, get firmly in
control of what she was doing.
But luckily, uh, late last year,they contacted me and said, we
want to get it going again.
And, uh, at the time that I wasout for the conference this
year, um, I met with Heather in,uh, in Sonoma and we're moving
(09:15):
ahead with it, and I'd like topromise that it will be out this
year, but I promise that so manytimes that I would be
embarrassed to do it again.
But I think it's very likelythat it will be out this year.
This is the first volume.
Volume two will go from 1848.
Through the Gold Rush to 1860,by which time you have the
railroad coming in, and anythingthat they're wearing in New York
(09:39):
City, they're wearing inCalifornia.
So it's, it's not really worthdoing costume manuals for after
1860.
I, there are some illustrationsthat I did for it, which are on
the next slide, I believe, andhere's where I want to, where
this volume was fun because Iwas able to kind of break the
(10:01):
stereotypes.
My vaqueros in silhouette mightlook something like Joe Morris,
but in detail, they're verydifferent from Joe Morris.
You'll notice the, the types ofhats and the way the, um, the
leggings are and such.
They're very different from thatAlso with the women.
The first dresses that were wornin California as they're
(10:22):
described, they were verybizarre.
They were long and very tight,and the sleeves were actually.
Not connected to the dress, butheld on by shoulder straps,
which is very bizarre.
Um, but that's my reconstructionof, of what was worn there.
The idea is to, um, not overturnor break myths, but to show more
(10:47):
fully what it is, uh, that wasactually worn to the best of my
knowledge at this point.
Um, and my hope is that withthis book, which will outlast
me, um, it will serve as afoundation for someone to come
along in the future who has moreskills than I have, or new
(11:09):
sources of information that Idon't, and, and move this
subject forward if they can.
I, I really hope that they do.
I'm just sorry, I won't be hereto see it.
Um, but yeah, it's, it's been agreat, great project, this book.
And it wasn't just about.
California's, when I did boththe Sutter Sport Manual and this
(11:32):
one, it's about all non, uh,all, all people in, in, uh,
California at the time, otherthan traditionally dressed
Native Americans, which I havedealt with in in other
publication.
Um, so these are the Russiansfrom Fort Ross, uh, as he might
have appeared, including thepink shirt, which was recently
(11:53):
misinterpreted by a, uh, ascholar as being a silk shirt
because it's based on a, uh, uh,eyewitness testimony to one of,
of, um, Bancroft's interviewerswhere one of the soldiers, uh,
California soldiers stopped offat, at, um, bodega Bay.
And they were just coming infrom a campaign and the Russians
(12:17):
gave them shirt that the, theSpanish soldiers thought were
silk, when in fact what theywere, were polished cotton from
China and they were cherry red.
So that's what I've shown thisgentleman on the right wearing.
And I just wanted to say, thereason I've got the picture of
the Fort Ross, uh, coloring bookthere is that I've been
(12:39):
researching Russian Americancostume for about the same main,
uh, length of time as I have,um, uh, California clothing.
Uh, it's been harder, uh,because I don't speak Russian,
but interestingly enough, verylittle of the information, much
like in California where verylittle of the information about
California dress is in Spanish,not much about Russian dress is
(13:05):
available in Russian becauseit's kind of like, well, it's,
it is almost a rule that peopledon't set out and describe the
everyday, so Russian who come toAmerica, they might describe a
California, but they're notgonna describe the Parsis who
are working around them, the,the Russian workers, because.
(13:28):
They're just workers.
They're, they're, they're everyday.
And so, uh, a lot of the bestdescriptions of the Russian
American company employees arein French, German, and Spanish
and, and English, and not in,um, not in Russian.
Although there was one vitaldocument that I had to go down
(13:49):
to the Library of Congress toget that was in Latin.
And I had to pull out my highschool Latin and just beat my
brains over translating the partabout clothing in it.
But it was worth it.
So I'd said I had done thingsabout Native Californians.
Um, this is an illustration thatI did, uh, some years ago for
(14:12):
the Alviso project that wasn'tused.
But also years ago, I was giventhe opportunity to write an
entry and a multi-volume historyaddress that was published in
England, uh, by the Burke.
Company, the Berg Encyclopediaof World Dress and Fashion.
And so I wrote the chapter onCalifornia Indian dress for
(14:35):
that.
So that, you know, I'm ratherproud that I was able to, uh, to
leave that because I've not ableto include traditional
Californian dress in my, uh, mycostume manuals.
Damian Bacich (14:50):
I noticed the, the shawls that, uh, the women
are wearing, at least one of thewomen, they, and maybe you've
seen, they remind me of kumeyaayrabbit blankets I've seen at the
Museum of Man in San Diego.
David Rickman (15:07):
Well, they certainly should because that's
exactly what they are.
Uh, it's interesting, it kind ofwoven, uh, blanket and it is
woven.
What they do is they take theskins and they, they.
They string them out and theycut them into strings and then
they weave them and they havethe fur on them.
And so they're, they're warminside and out.
(15:27):
Uh, that style of, of blanket isworn all the way up to the
Arctic circle.
Um, very popular.
And so, yes, that's exactly whatthey're wearing.
It's also a good way of dealingwith the fact that when you're
illustrating for the generalpublic, you can't show naked
people because fourth gradersget the giggles.
(15:51):
And then I just wanted to showsome of the work that I did for
the, uh, national Park Service.
I've done a lot of work in, inthe last 15 years or so,
especially, I've done it foryears for the National Park
Service, but the last 15 yearsespecially,'cause I've been
working with an exhibit companyout of Los Angeles, Henley
Company, and we've done a numberof these.
This is actually a Santa Fetrail, uh, site in southern
(16:15):
Colorado, and it's showing whatare called comancheros.
They were new Mexicans who wouldgo out and trade with the
Comanches, and they often wouldtrade oh, blankets and, and uh,
coffee and sugar and things likethat for horses.
And the lower on the left handside is a picture of where this
(16:36):
sign can be seen.
And I like to joke that my artis seen in some of the most
desolate parts of America.
Um, this is out in the middle ofnowhere as many of my waysides
are.
Damian Bacich (16:52):
All right.
David Rickman (16:54):
And this is another one that I did, which
was for a cotton, uh, mill in,uh, Providence, Rhode Island.
And I, that was a, a great onebecause I got to crawl all over
this reconstructed mill.
And then I had to go home and,and, uh, uh, do a cutaway view
of it.
But I, I had to know how itworked before I could actually
(17:16):
do that drawing.
And so.
Uh, going all the way down towhere that mill wheel is and all
the way up to the top.
Uh, I was able to figure it out.
Brilliant bit of engineering,but not like anything that I do
for California.
And then I did this, which issome of my natural history
(17:38):
stuff, which I don't do oftenenough.
But these are prehistoric lionand wolf that is on display at
the, um, visitor center at, um,uh, in California for, um, for
one of the beach sites on thebeach parks.
Damian Bacich (17:57):
I'll have to go find
David Rickman (17:58):
the last, last one is actually one that I did
for, um, a Cherokee Indian site,the Sequoia Birthplace Museum in
Tennessee.
And give you an idea thatsometimes they'll do a little
illustration on your computer.
Or on paper.
(18:20):
And then, uh, they blew it upto, I think, at least twice life
size in order to make a muralout of it.
But again, this was sort thegreat project I got very
involved with how the Cherokeedressed and, you know, wearing
turbans and these kfan likecoats and such.
So unlike what we normallypicture American Indians
(18:42):
dressing, and yet I think we doa disservice to the, the
richness of Native Americanclothing and culture when we all
just assume that they worefeather head dresses and buck
skin.
Damian Bacich (18:56):
Right.
This is, this is fascinating tosee, and I guess there's one
more here.
David Rickman (19:03):
And this last one is just those two Facebook
pages.
Uh, the groups, the AltaCalifornia clothing that I
helped to administer, and thearts and skills of the Spanish
Borderlands, which.
To my amazement, uh, we're nowat more than 3000 members on the
arts and skills of the Spanishborderlands, and it grew far
beyond my expectations.
(19:24):
I thought we would just be asmall group, but we have members
as far away as Israel and, andAustralia that, uh, writing in
from time to time or at leasttuning in to see what what's
new.
Damian Bacich (19:38):
And I think that speaks to what we talked about
earlier, the, the, the latentinterest that there is out there
for these sorts of topics.
You know, people from Israel,3000 people that gather
together.
You know, I.
To, to discuss and learn aboutmaterial culture in the Spanish
(20:01):
borderlands of, of NorthAmerica.
It's, it's, and well, it's alsoa testament to you and the, the
precise and, um, robust workthat you do because you are
serious about what you do.
And, and so people know thatthat's a place where they're
gonna exchange seriousinformation.
David Rickman (20:23):
Well, well, thank you.
Um, it, it, it had been apleasure to, to do this and to
discover just how many peoplefind what you and I find
actively fascinating.
Equally fascinating.
Um, it's, it's very gratifying.
Damian Bacich (20:41):
you've never been tempted to work in Hollywood.
David Rickman (20:45):
Oh, yes.
And I, I'm sure you heard, ormaybe you didn't hear that.
I almost did.
Damian Bacich (20:54):
I don't think I knew about this.
David Rickman (20:56):
twice, I, I once, uh, I have a friend who is a
costume, a well establishedcostume designer in, in
Hollywood.
And years ago I went out andchatted with her and visited the
set of a film she was working onin session.
She's, she's really very wellestablished.
And, um, and after talking to mefor a while, she very kindly
(21:20):
said, David, you'd never survivein Hollywood because I don't
respect authenticity.
Um, she said, I can live withit.
I know how to bend it and all ofthat.
But, you know, she can also dovery authentic when she wants to
and when she's allowed to, butHollywood doesn't allow her to.
But a few years ago, thanks tomy connection with the Natural
(21:40):
History Museum in Los AngelesCounty, um, I was contacted by
people who wanted to do a newZorro series for the Disney
Channel.
And for a while there we lookedlike we were going to do it.
And the, the, uh, naturalHistory Museum History
Department actually recommendedme.
That's how we connected.
(22:02):
And I went out and visited themin, um, in Los Angeles and we
had breakfast together and wetalked about plots and costume
and such.
And as always, they assured methey wanted to be absolutely
authentic.
But you know, anytime you'redealing with history and
Hollywood, you have to take thatwith a very large dose of salt.
(22:22):
Um.
We got very close.
The only thing that happened wasthat, um, we had, um, the
Hollywood Writer Strike followedby the Hollywood Actor Strike,
and then a new series that camefrom Spain that appeared on, I
think Amazon of Zoro, which wasabsolutely atrocious.
(22:48):
I mean, pure, uh, game ofThrones level authenticity, and,
um, that pretty much killed theproject.
But yeah, if anyone out therewants a consultant on early
California costume, whether forZora or not, um, let me know.
(23:08):
Uh, or Old West generally.
Um, yeah, the, the, uh, thething about Hollywood is that
you really do have to know howto work with.
Both history and, uh, andproducers,
Damian Bacich (23:26):
Well, you never know who may be listening to
this.
I'm, we're watching this video.
I'm always surprised at at thereach it gets, so who knows?
David Rickman (23:37):
who knows?
Well, I, I would be verypleased.
Um, I think I've told you thoughthat, um, Zoro doesn't quite
make sense because Zoro is aranchero who's protecting the
rights of the missions and theIndians, which doesn't quite fit
with the history.
But, um, we were actually ableto, to overcome that in the way
(23:58):
we were doing the story.
Um, but yeah, it was, it was adisappointment.
It would've been fun to, uh, todo and see how far we could go
toward making it actually looklike 1830s California.
Damian Bacich (24:12):
Wow.
Well, I would be, I would loveto see that.
Hopefully it'll happen.
Who knows?
Who knows?
David Rickman (24:19):
Yeah, I mean, there has never been ne, well,
first of all, there's never beenan authentically costumed
western ever.
Um, so why should I expect thatthere would be an authentically
costumed film about earlyCalifornia?
Uh, that, that's I think askingtoo much.
Damian Bacich (24:38):
You're probably right.
Well, David, I, I took a lot ofyour time, but this is
fascinating.
Um, I'm looking forward tohearing more about the book.
Hopefully, hopefully it won't betoo long before it's out because
I think a lot of people wouldlove, would love it, not just
people who work for the stateparks or who are museum, uh,
(25:01):
curators, but I just think thevisual aspect is fills in a huge
gap conceptually for people whoare interested in history and
California history and just the,the, the background of our state
and the west in general, Ithink.
Right.
It's the whole, the whole west,because California really
(25:25):
shouldn't be seen in isolation.
It's part of this, this muchbroader, uh, geographical and
cultural area.
So I'm looking forward to thatand be waiting for ba with
beated breath for it.
Well, maybe I shouldn't waitwith beated breath, but be
waiting for it.
David Rickman (25:41):
Probably not.
Damian Bacich (25:42):
Right, right, right.
David Rickman (25:44):
Well, I'm also looking forward to, uh, next
year's conference and to seeingyou there.
Damian Bacich (25:50):
in Mission Dolores, for those of you who
don't know, uh, the CaliforniaMissions Conference will be at
Mission Dolores in SanFrancisco.
I think we'll be celebrating the250th anniversary.
Of the founding of Mission SanFrancisco, the Asis and the
Presidio of San Francisco,right?
1776.
(26:10):
So you've got time to plan forit now.
I believe it's the weekend ofApril 18th, but I will double
check that.
David Rickman (26:20):
We keep moving it back and forth from April to
February.
Damian Bacich (26:24):
Right.
David Rickman (26:25):
I hope it's in April.
I hope I, I do hope it's inApril.
Damian Bacich (26:28):
it is, it is, it is.
It's been, it's been nailed downfor April.
I think that the, the fee, whatI understand is the feedback
from this year was that people,that people like having it at
April rather than on thePresident's Day weekend, which
also happens to often coincidewith Valentine's Day.
So it, uh,
David Rickman (26:49):
as I did this year.
Damian Bacich (26:50):
right, right.
right.
David Rickman (26:53):
Well, I look forward to seeing you there.
Damian Bacich (26:54):
Likewise.
Well, thanks so much, David.
It's been great.
I,
David Rickman (26:59):
Thank you, Damien.
It is been an honor to, I'm, I'mvery, uh, flattered that you
asked me on.
I'm grateful.
This is the California FrontierShow.
If you would like to know moreabout the California Frontier
(27:21):
Project, visit Californiafrontier.net.
If you would like to support theshow, scroll down in the show
notes and click support theshow.
Then be sure to tell all yourfriends about the podcast.
If you would like to connectwith me, the host, send me an
email atdamien@californiafrontier.net.
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