March 25, 2025 • 41 mins
What happens when a driven attorney refuses to sacrifice motherhood for career success? Erica Cicero, founder of Cicero Law Firm, shares her remarkable journey from health-compromising corporate burnout to creating a thriving legal practice on her own terms.
"I remember as a teenager I always said I wanted to go before God at the end of my life and say I used it all. I used every single bit of talent, energy, drive that you gave me. There's nothing left," Erica shares. This powerful drive initially led her down a traditional legal path that left her physically ill and emotionally depleted—until she discovered what she calls "walk away power."
When severe health issues and pregnancy complications forced Erica to step back from her career, she made a revolutionary discovery: creating a business model where she could walk away when needed actually enabled unprecedented growth. Her innovative "attorney-on-demand" subscription service now provides small businesses with affordable in-house counsel while allowing her to prioritize her two toddlers.
But Erica didn't stop there. With entrepreneurial vision, she's developed a real estate portfolio alongside her legal practice, strategically purchasing properties as future college funds for her daughters. By assembling the right team and accepting help from family, she's crafted a life that feels abundant rather than stretched thin.
What makes Erica's approach truly groundbreaking is her recognition that different seasons of motherhood require different work-life arrangements. "Each season of your life has to be defined and analyzed in a different way," she advises, encouraging mothers to regularly ask themselves what they truly want in this precise moment.
For anyone struggling to reconcile ambitious professional goals with hands-on parenting, this conversation offers both practical strategies and permission to create success on your own terms. As Erica proves, sometimes the power to walk away becomes the foundation for building something extraordinary.
Resources:
Erica’s website: e.cicerolaw@cicero-law.com
The Ultimate Time Audit & Productivity System (Freebie)
Grab it here: TIME AUDIT WORKBOOK
How to Hire Your First VA for $27
Get it now: GROWTH CHEATSHEET
Discover Your WHY – Free 5-Day Workshop
Sign up for free here: DISCOVER YOUR WHY
The Mom Balance Playbook (Freebie for Managing the Mayhem)
Download here: MOM BALANCE PLAYBOOK
Hire a VA or start your VA business here: https://camillewalker.co/
5-Minute Meditations for Kids Podcast
Listen & subscribe here: APPLE SPOTIFY
Top 100 Mompreneur Podcasts: https://podcast.feedspot.com/mompreneur_podcasts/
Connect with Erica:
Instagram: https://www.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Erica (00:00):
I remember as a teenager I always said I wanted to go
before God at the end of my lifeand say I used it all.
I used every single bit oftalent, energy, drive that you
gave me.
There's nothing left.
Camille (00:20):
So you want to make an impact.
You're thinking about startinga business, sharing your voice.
How do women do it that handlemotherhood, family and still
chase after those dreams?
We'll listen each week as wedive into the stories of women
who know this is Call Me CEO.
Welcome back everyone to CallMe CEO.
(00:42):
This is your host, CamilleWalker, and today we are talking
about is it possible to reallyhave it all as a mother, a wife,
a business owner.
Is that even a possibility?
I love this topic andespecially our guest that we're
going to have today, because shetook that question and that
challenge and has really made alife for herself where she
(01:05):
really feels like she has it all.
We're going to dive in whatthat means and what that is for
her, but she is Erica Cicero,who is the founder of Cicero Law
Firm.
So she took her practice in abig corporate world, brought it
into her own home so that shecould create a balance that
really felt like she had hit thelottery.
So, Erica, thank you so muchfor being on the show today.
(01:27):
I can't wait to hear more aboutyour story.
Erica (01:29):
Thank you so much.
It's such an honor to be here.
Camille (01:32):
Oh, you're so sweet.
Thank you, you're so sweet.
I love when I have people onthe show who have heard other
women's stories and relate withthe struggle that it is to like
figure out all the pieces,especially as a mom.
That brings in a dynamic thatreally changes and challenges
what it means to have it all.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhere you live, your family and
(01:55):
what it is that you do.
Erica (01:57):
So I live in Mandeville, louisiana, which is about a 45
minute drive outside of NewOrleans across the longest
causeway in the world and it'skind of a Hallmark town and it
looks like it's in a Hallmarkmovie.
It's absolutely beautiful, andI live here with my husband
We've been together almost 10years and my two little girls.
(02:21):
I have two toddlers and theyare just absolutely delightful,
and so my husband and I met inlaw school.
So we are the dreaded lawyercouple that everybody, everybody
says you should not do that,and we did.
Camille (02:38):
You know.
It's interesting though,because so my husband runs a law
firm in Salt Lake City, and Ihave really been interested in
learning more from the attorneysand their spouses, whether it's
male or female.
The number one complaint that Ihear them say is the hours that
they're working, that it reallyis a challenge and a pressure
for the family.
(02:58):
So I'd imagine being married toan attorney.
You both understand thepressures of what that work
demands, and then also it putyou into a place where you're
like maybe we should reformulatethis, and you created your own
path with that, which I think isamazing.
Erica (03:15):
Yeah, it was.
It was difficult because so myhusband is a total powerhouse.
He's an award-winning litigator, all the things right.
He's the stereotype.
And I took a few years off afterlaw school because I was so
exhausted and burnt out and so Iwatched him just work and work,
(03:35):
and work while I prepped forthe bar and I wrote a few novels
and living my life, my bestlife.
And I realized that after I satfor the bar I didn't want to go
back into that heavy hitterlegal world like he was in, and
that I had gotten out of that,had burnt me out so fast.
And so I kind of created thisboutique practice where I was
(03:59):
just doing estate planning,because I really wanted to be a
mom and that was my number onegoal and I didn't want to miss a
thing.
So I said, look, I got my lawlicense, I practice, I can do
that on the side, no big deal,and I'll just be a mom full time
.
And eventually it blossomedinto my husband working 90 hours
(04:21):
a week, going from differentfirms, having people bid on him
for where he could go, andeventually we just said why
doesn't he come and work with myfirm?
And um, because my firm wasjust snowballing and exploding
and I had these two children athome and, yeah, it's been wild,
it's been a wild journey, wow.
Camille (04:42):
Yeah, so take me back a few steps, because obviously
you are very successful in yourown right.
Was it hard for you to walkaway from, you know, taking the
bar and thinking, oh, I've takenthis many years to get here and
be a part of this and now, like, was that a hard transition for
you to take a step back fromthat?
Erica (05:03):
Oh, it was so hard it got .
It went down to my health,though.
So after law school I started.
We got married right out of lawschool and moved from Cleveland
to to Mandeville, and myhusband had these great jobs and
everything, but my health fromthe stress of law school was
deteriorating, and so that's whyI had to take time off and um,
(05:27):
and then, when I was preppingfor the bar, I developed all
these crazy issues.
I was having autoimmune issuesand all that from stress, and so
he kind of had a sit down withme and he was like you don't
have to do this, You're puttingso much stress on yourself.
And he knew I wanted to be amom and we, I just couldn't get
pregnant.
It was everything, it was justmy body just couldn't do it.
(05:48):
And so I kind of just acceptedthat I may not be able to handle
the stress and everything and,um, I think giving myself the
grace to say I can walk away ifI need to is what allowed this
to go from.
I just work a little bit tohaving this multi-million dollar
empire that I've created,because I've given myself the
(06:12):
permission to ask for help, hirepeople when I need them, hiring
staff and being able to take astep back and say, no, I need
some time off, or that kind ofthing.
That's really.
What was the game changer forme?
No, I need some time off, orthat kind of thing.
Camille (06:25):
That's really what was the game changer for me?
That's really interesting and Ithink that that applies to so
many of us where it's sometimes,when we're holding on to
something so tight that itespecially with our health, you
know where, if you're burningyourself at both ends and not
giving yourself that time andspace to it's really interesting
because I feel like, in a way,this relates to I was watching
(06:48):
the Grammys and Chapel Roan wasaccepting, or she was getting.
It was like the pre-show andthey were saying what do you
think it is that makes you sucha powerful and strong artist,
like you're new here, and shesaid well, actually I've been
doing this for over a decade,but the thing that makes me
really powerful is that I havewalk away power.
(07:09):
And it was Gail Oprah's bestfriend who was interviewing her
and she really related with that.
She's like, oh, that makes somuch sense to me Because I feel
like there is a sense in ourlives where sometimes, when
we're holding onto somethingthat's not meant for us so
tightly that it'll affect ourrelationships, our health, and
(07:32):
health is wealth.
It doesn't matter how much moneyyou make at that point, right.
But then to say, okay, I'mgoing to create a situation for
myself where I have that walkaway power, where I know that I
need to take a step back andreally pause for myself, where I
have that walk away power,where I know that I need to take
a step back and really pausefor myself and create something
that works for me, and I feellike that's what you've done.
(07:52):
Is it's that walk away power?
Would you agree?
Erica (07:55):
Oh, absolutely.
I think that that's been whathas allowed me to build this so
large is that I have the walkaway power from the beginning,
and I also have so many peoplebehind me who can help me
because, um, I realized Icouldn't do this without a
village.
(08:15):
Because, um, I think my mybiggest flaw as a person is that
I'm incapable of accepting myown limitations.
For example, I was telling mybook club this we just read Onyx
Storm, the fourth wing book.
Oh, yes, I'm reading that rightnow.
Oh, it's so good.
(08:36):
And so I was telling them like,oh, I definitely would cross
the parapet, I would definitelybe a dragon, I'd be the best
dragon rider there ever were.
I'm one of those people where,if you tell me like, oh, you
can't run a marathon, I'd belike give me a year, I'll be the
fastest runner you've ever seen.
It's just, I'm delusional,completely delusional, about how
(08:56):
I have no limits.
And so I think that now that Ikind of accept this is what my
businesses are and I'm, you know, I have people who can help me.
I can do what I want.
This is my choice.
I can walk away, I can changemy schedule.
That has given me all the powerin my life and a lot of peace,
and yeah, it's really wonderful.
Camille (09:18):
A lot of happiness has resulted in that, and I would
imagine your health improved aswell.
Erica (09:24):
Oh yeah, I um, magically all of these health problems.
I thought that I had crazyautoimmune issues.
We were, you know, looking intothat kind of thing.
I had, um, all these issues,they all just disappeared.
So a lot of it was, you know,stress, stressful so quickly,
and lack of sleep and, um, whichis probably a huge issue of
mine cause I, I don't reallyhave a lot of time to sleep, but
(09:48):
yeah, so it's definitelychanged around my health.
That is so great.
Camille (09:53):
Well, let's.
So let's take some steps back,because you're in a place where
you're like I want to dosomething different.
I'm going to create thisboutique law firm.
My husband is going to come onboard with me.
You're starting to build a team.
What does that look like?
Exactly Like what are youoffering?
What is, what are yourbusinesses?
You've mentioned more than one.
Tell us what it is that you do.
Erica (10:14):
Okay.
So it's kind of, I guess Ishould tell you like where it
came from, because when myhusband he was a roofer for 25
years, right, and so he had allof these cases where he did
first party property, he wouldsue insurance companies for
property owners.
Well, all the roofers andcontractors he worked with had
other legal needs.
They had business needs, theyneeded people to look over
(10:34):
contracts and all that hecouldn't do that at the law firm
that he worked at, and so Iended up representing them as a
business attorney and I wasdoing a bunch of different
representing them as a businessattorney and I was doing a bunch
of different kind of a jack ofall trades with business.
And so it turned from estateplanning to this business law
and I became kind of a smallbusiness, not expert, but that
(10:57):
became my specialty.
And so eventually, when hedecided to jump ship from you
know big law and corporate lawbecause he was never home, he
was never seeing our girls andthat was really missing ballet.
I remember he missed balletclass and it was like the most
heartbreaking thing for him andhe was like I have to get out.
(11:19):
And so he, yeah, he came towork with me, and so he was
actually able to take on thoseclients that he had a
relationship with in his firstparty property you know world
and expand it.
And so we were able to expandthis business into representing
small business owners.
So we kind of have we havemultiple different methods that
(11:41):
we go about representingbusinesses.
We have a tiered program, soit's almost like a subscription
service.
So, depending on your legalneeds for your business, you can
kind of pick a plan and you payper month and we are on call
for you.
You know we'll draft things,we'll send demand letters, we'll
do all the things, or we canjust do stuff a la carte, like a
(12:03):
typical attorney does.
It just depends on if you needin-house counsel right, and a
lot of these businesses theyneed in-house counsel, but they
can't afford a quarter milliondollars a year for an attorney
with benefits and all of that.
So they hire us and just do amonthly subscription and so,
yeah, we have become in-housecounsel on demand, which is what
(12:24):
we've coined it because we'rethe on-demand attorneys, and so
we've done that and he stilldoes his first party work and I
still do estate planning as well, but we've blown up as business
attorneys.
In addition to that I have, Ihave quite a hobby for rentals
(12:44):
and real estate.
So I have several rentals.
I have beautiful townhomes andin Mandeville, right by a
hospital, and we have just themost cute little private block
and I bought several on the onthe block and I rent them out
and, yeah, and I flip homes aswell.
(13:05):
So, yeah, I know I you are adragon writer.
And so the current house thatI'm in now I'm actually about to
list it because we bought it ayear ago and I flipped it.
It looked like the olive gardenand I turned it into this
beautiful, sleek, modern,colonial, super elegant.
(13:27):
I think I added six or sevenchandeliers, just really
upgraded it, and that's mypassion, all of these things.
Camille (13:36):
That's amazing.
Yeah, that is multiplebusinesses, and I think the a la
carte attorney subscriptionmakes sense because people don't
need an in-house attorney allthe time.
But any business owner knowsthat laws and being sued and
things happen that you don'texpect, so that makes a lot of
sense.
(13:56):
Was that an idea that you hadheard someone else doing, or how
did you even come up with thatconcept?
Erica (14:02):
Yeah, so it.
It kind of it formed out of apublic adjuster that I work with
a lot and, um, he was areferral from my husband
originally back in the day and Ibecame his business attorney
and it got to the point where Iwould get a text message from
him and he would say I need youto jump on a call with me in 15
minutes and it would just becomethousands and thousands of
(14:24):
dollars a month that I'm billinghim to sit on phone calls with
him and he doesn't say anything.
That's going to be a liability,or me looking over a contract or
him just sending me somethingto review.
And it was getting to the pointwhere it was insanely expensive
for him and I realized that ifwe did a subscription type idea,
(14:45):
a lot of other people would beinterested in it, and so he was
able to become one of our firstclients with that and I kind of
tested it out and I lowered myhourly fee and I did a lot of
things included in that and itjust became so seamless and
(15:05):
because of that we've been ableto really expand the firm,
because we have people on amonthly basis and checks are
coming in really regularly.
So it's been really goodbecause I realized how many
people wanted that type ofrelationship with an attorney.
Camille (15:22):
To just say I have an attorney I'm going to call right
now relationship with anattorney to just say I have an
attorney I'm going to call rightnow.
Yes, ooh, that's so smart andwith your love of so, take me
back a little bit with growingthe business.
Where was that?
I know that you said you hadyour girls and your husband
wanted to come in.
What was the timeline of like,okay, I'm going to start my own
boutique thing.
(15:42):
This is getting big.
Now I'm a mom Like how are youbalancing the different parts of
your business and how did thatbuild up?
Erica (15:50):
So it was a very strange timeline and trajectory, because
so both of my pregnancies theywere really difficult, and so
when I got pregnant the firsttime and then miscarried and
then the second, it became avery dangerous type of situation
.
I couldn't walk at the endbecause I had sciatic nerve pain
(16:13):
.
My husband literally carried meto take a shower.
It was rough, and so I hadstarted the business right
before I was able to getpregnant, and so I had this book
of clients and I felt like Iwas doing really well, and then
I kind of had to take a hugestep back, and so it was one of
(16:33):
those things where I feltgrateful that I didn't work for
someone else, because I did havethe luxury of just saying I'm
not taking on new clients rightnow.
But I felt really disheartenedafter I had my first daughter
because I just wasn't working asmuch I would do.
I would take on maybe one ortwo clients a month.
It was very, very minimal work,maybe 10 hours a month at the
(16:54):
most.
And then I wanted to have, Iwanted to try to have another
child right away, and we gotpregnant with the second, and so
I was pregnant back to back,and that one was also risky
because she was a twin and welost the twin.
And so, yeah, it was, it was,it was very, it was a struggle,
(17:15):
and so I just I completelystopped working with that second
pregnancy.
It was just, I wasn't in a goodplace emotionally with the loss
, just, you know, I was soafraid that we'd lose her and it
was a mess.
And so I remember thinking andtalking to my husband when I was
about six months pregnant,saying like I think I'm done, I
think I'm retiring, and he justsaid, well, you have the
(17:37):
business, you can take a clienthere and there.
The business doesn't cost usany money.
Really, you know it's.
You know I wasn't rentingoffice space, I was doing it all
remotely, so he's like, justkeep it open.
And so, yeah, it was threemonths after she was born, it
felt like I just shed that skinof, just like the mourning and
(17:59):
over the loss of, you know, twobabies, and then you know the
postpartum, just everything, Ifelt like a human again.
You know, yes, I was able torealize that I could balance
something.
You know, I could balance it.
And so I started taking on aclient here and there and then I
really liked it and then itstarted snowballing.
(18:20):
Within two months I had maybe15 or 20 clients and it was just
.
It was becoming so much that Icouldn't quite handle it all
myself because I was a one womanshow at that point.
And then I brought on aparalegal and then we got office
space.
And then my husband started toexpress over that year that he
(18:42):
was less and less happy workingat a firm.
He was missing out oneverything.
He was constantly in Texas andFlorida just for work, flying
everywhere missing everything.
And so we kind of made thedecision that he was going to
come and work with me and I wasworking with half of his clients
anyways with other topics.
(19:02):
So you know, it just made sense.
And so, yeah, this boutiquefirm that went from just a few
clients quickly snowballed.
Once I was a few monthspostpartum with my second and
just kind of got out of control.
Camille (19:16):
That's amazing and I love that it lined up with what
you needed in terms of givingyou the balance of okay, I need
a minute and recalibrating afterpregnancy and loss and the
hormones alone.
I feel like it's at threemonths that you really are kind
of just getting that breath offresh air of like oh yeah, I am
(19:37):
a human.
You're just kind of in this fog.
Erica (19:41):
So yeah, that's all of that.
It's like you don't.
You don't even have your ownbody and it's just, it's a lot,
and so I was very fortunate thatI felt like it was.
It was divine intervention theway I had the firm and it was
slow growing, but I was stillthere, people still contacted me
and then it just took off.
Camille (20:01):
That's awesome.
So, as far as figuring out thatbalance of now being this
business owner having these twolittle babies how old are they
now Like?
What are the ages they were,how old are they now?
What's the timeline with thatto give us a perspective?
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(20:24):
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(21:10):
show notes.
Erica (21:10):
So my oldest Ilaria, she is two and a half.
Camille (21:21):
And your oldest is two and a half.
Erica (21:22):
Uh huh, this is like very recent.
Oh yeah, babies.
Yeah, okay, two and a half.
And then my.
My second is, I think is it 14months.
She was born November of 2023.
So I think that's 14 months.
So, yeah, she's um, uh,giovanna and um, yeah, they're.
They're just, they kind of actlike they're twins because
they're so close in age.
They're 15 months apart and sothey um, it's kind of convenient
(21:45):
now that I'm out of thecraziness with, like, babies,
you know.
Camille (21:49):
Yeah, so yeah, they're walking around.
Now they're just getting intoeverything and running around
everything.
So how do you manage now?
What pieces have you put intoplace?
I know you said you grew yourteam, so tell us a little bit
about that.
Erica (22:04):
Yeah, so when things started getting out of control
and snowballing, I was able tobring on a paralegal a good
friend of ours and I trust himwith everything right.
And then when we brought Chazon and he left his firm, we were
really able to move locations,office locations.
We were able to haveadministrative staff at the
(22:27):
office, we were able to haveparalegals you know,
administrative staff at theoffice.
We were able to have paralegalsand I was actually able to kind
of take a bigger step back anddo more business development and
client relations than anythingelse.
So it's, I still do.
I do work the cases, but I don'ttouch litigation anymore.
That's Chaz's job.
(22:48):
He's he's excellent at it.
I do a lot of the paperwork, soI write contracts, I review
contracts, I draft things, Iapprove all of our media stuff
and I'm very fortunate, one ofmy really good friends is a
media guru, so she does a lot ofthat for us.
But yeah, I was able to kind oftake a step back and be more of
(23:10):
the face of the company andpractice law in a more
non-traditional way and havepeople kind of help me with the
backend.
Camille (23:18):
Yeah, gosh, I think that's the way it should be
Because, again, that's thenumber one complaint I get when
I talk with people, because bynature, I love to interview and
ask people questions, and that'sthe number one complaint is
that home life balance of youknow, I have a son who's very
gifted and in debate he actslike an attorney, without
(23:41):
knowing that that's how he is,and when we've said, the one
thing that's held me back is oh,it's hard for your family life.
So I love that you've been ableto create something that makes
so much sense in terms of owninga business and being a parent
and having a partner.
That's amazing.
Erica (24:01):
Well, one of the big things I remember my dear friend
, my mom friend, melanie, saidto me three months postpartum
after my oldest, she has adaughter who's six months older.
Right, she said the biggest liewe were sold is that women can
have it all.
We can't.
And she was in the trenches,you know, she had a
(24:21):
nine-month-old.
It was rough and I really feltthat and so I thought more about
it and I'm like how am I goingto do this?
How am I going to balance allof this?
Because, like I said, mybiggest flaw is that I think I
can do it all and I I rememberas a teenager I wanted I always
said I wanted to go before Godat the end of my life and say I
(24:43):
used it all.
I used every single bit oftalent, energy, drive that you
gave me.
There's nothing left, right, Ileft it all on the table and I
was like I'm not going to beable to do that if I'm a mom and
being a mom was something thatI wanted to do, be you know, for
so long that I felt reallydisheartened and realizing that
(25:04):
I could actually become anattorney who just oversees more
and I can have paralegals draftstuff for me if I can't, and I
can do client meetings and allof that.
That has really helped Havingmy mother-in-law here half the
time because she lives inCleveland and she lives with us
about half the time now and shehas been invaluable.
(25:28):
I couldn't do that without her.
I don't have a nanny because wehave her, but I don't want
full-time help because I want tobe with my girls.
But sometimes it's hard becausemy husband's going to be in
Texas all week, for example, andyou know I don't have childcare
if I need to go to a meetingreal quick, that kind of thing.
So it's all about balancingthat and figuring out how I can
(25:51):
fulfill my dream of being afull-time stay-at-home mom and
also using all these talentsthat I have and not burning
myself out completely.
Camille (26:04):
I love that Advice for people who are listening and
maybe trying to figure out abalance that works for them.
What would your advice be tothem about striking that balance
to have it all?
What advice would you give tothem?
Erica (26:21):
So I guess my biggest advice would be things look
different for different women.
Some women are being ahomemaker and a stay at home mom
is that's what they want to do.
They don't want to runbusinesses, they don't want to
expand it.
They have the luxury of stayingat home and I think that's
awesome.
If that's where their cup isfull, then do it.
(26:43):
But some women feel discontented, you know, by that, and they
want to expand, they want togrow a business.
They don't want to work forsomeone else.
They want to kind of definetheir own destiny.
And I would say that eachseason of your life it has to be
defined and analyzed in adifferent way.
So if you're newly postpartum,that may look completely
(27:03):
different than it does fiveyears later, because your
children have so much, they havea lot more needs and you're
going to be sleeping a lot lessand your sanity is going to be
on the line to start.
And so I think that analyzingthe situation during each season
and seeing where your needs areand where you're happiest and
(27:24):
what you want, and just askingyourself very realistically give
me five words what do you want?
I think that's.
If you ask yourself thatregularly, it's going to change
and you'll be able to shift yourfocus and make your life more
meaningful and, I guess, driventowards your personal goals at
(27:48):
that season.
Camille (27:50):
Yeah, oh, I believe that a hundred percent having.
I now have teenagers.
My oldest is seven, almost 17.
And my youngest is.
I know it's so crazy and my lifelooks so different now than it
did even five years ago, and Ithink that we in the day to day
can get lost in the demands ofwhat is going on, in the moment
(28:12):
that we think, oh, this is whatI'm in forever.
But it's not like it reallygoes so quickly and our, our
ability to adapt to that isreally so powerful, because you
do need to do it on purpose,though, because it's happening
whether you want it to or not,just how things change and it's
so beautiful and I think, toreally embrace the moment that
(28:35):
you're in, because it isfleeting, it really is.
Erica (28:39):
Yeah, that's how I feel.
I know that my, my children areso small now and they are with
me all the time.
I'm very.
Maybe three times a week Ileave them for meetings for an
hour or two, Like I am with themall the time and I know in 10
years they're probably not goingto want to hang out with me
like this.
And these are the years thatare so pivotal and fundamental
(29:03):
in their upbringing and they'renever going to remember it.
It's just for me.
No, my, my daughter's not goingto remember.
Like working on the alphabetthis morning.
You know, doing those kinds ofactivities, but I'm always going
to and I don't want to miss outon that and so.
But in 10 years, when they needme less, maybe I will be, you
(29:23):
know, in the courtroom more,maybe I will be expanding the
business in a differentdirection.
I can't even imagine that Iwouldn't be willing to do today,
because I don't want tosacrifice my time with my
children.
Camille (29:36):
A hundred percent.
That's amazing.
I love that for you and I donot regret choices I made either
for being able to be there withmy kids.
And what's interesting, I justhad this there with my kids and,
what's interesting, I just hadthis conversation with my kids
this morning where my husbandand I can now we go on weekly
dates, sometimes more because wehave our kids are old enough
(29:56):
now.
At first it was, oh, we have akid old enough that can babysit,
and there were times that wegot babysitters, but pretty rare
when they were young, justbecause we couldn't afford it,
or whatever sitters, but prettyrare when they were young, just
because we couldn't afford it orwhatever.
And now I go out with my husbandall the time and I love it and
it's so good for us to keep ourrelationship strong.
And I was telling them thismorning you have a different mom
(30:18):
now than I was five years ago.
I never left, I was never goneat night and now I can actually
get out.
So you know, and they were like, yeah, it's good mom, it's good
that you, that you get to goout, and they're so supportive
of it, because I feel like ifyour kids see you and know that
you've invested time into themand you have open communication
with who you are.
As a human needing time away,or you know a date with dad or
(30:43):
whatever the thing is, theyunderstand it.
Because they know that you'veinvested your time with them,
they feel filled up.
Erica (30:51):
So, and I think one of the big things for me is that I
realized very quickly thatchildren, they need to see their
parents happy and that marriagehas to be the priority.
And so it's if you're reallydisconnected from your spouse,
which is so easy when you havesmall children.
(31:11):
It's just, you know, it makes iteverybody feels it, and so it's
really nice when you can go ondates and that kind of thing.
And so, yeah, and I think thatchildren seeing their mother
happy and not justself-sacrificing, I think that
when we, as women, are justself-sacrificing, you know, it's
(31:32):
just, it's in our nature.
We.
We give everything for ourfamilies and our children.
And it's really nice, though,when your children can look at
you and say it's so good to seeyou doing what you want to do
and that you're happy.
I love that, and so, yeah,that's my goal is for my girls
to say you know, my mom was sohappy and she, you know she did
(31:55):
everything she wanted to do youknow I don't want to say, oh,
because I've heard so manypeople say you know, my mom
could have been great.
She always said I could havedone this, I could have done
that, but then she was stuck.
And it's like I don't want tobe the woman who's stuck, you
know, and I think a lot of usfall into that because it's so
easy to do.
Camille (32:20):
Yeah, yeah, and I feel like the generation of mothers
today have a lot moreopportunities where we can
create different avenues ofincome and have access to being
more in control of our schedules.
Not everyone is in thatsituation, but I'm so grateful
that more and more are.
That's the whole reason why Idid this podcast was, I hope,
for everyone.
Listening is they think andlisten to stories like yours
(32:42):
where they think how could Iadjust my situation, where I do
have a little more autonomy andI do have that space to be more
in control of what it is thatI'm doing.
Erica (32:54):
And the more as time goes on, this next generation, I
think they're going to becauseof us, because we are the kind
of pioneers of saying no, I'mworking from home, I'm working
part-time, I'm doing this orthat.
My schedule has got to beflexible.
We're the ones demanding afuture for them, so that the
next generation of moms which iscrazy to think that that'll be
(33:15):
my girls it's like I'm trying todemand a future for them so
they can say, you know, if theywant to have children, that they
can say, no, I'm going to workand this is how my schedule is
going to be, so I can dowhatever I want to do.
Camille (33:29):
Yeah, ooh, I love it, I love it.
I want to switch gears just alittle bit because I am
selfishly curious.
Tell me a bit more about howyou got into real estate and
what were those first steps.
And I'm not like buying a block, I'm like that sounds amazing.
Tell us how you got into realestate and advice that you would
(33:50):
have for people who have thatambition as well.
Erica (33:54):
So I think real estate probably was in my blood my dad
and his brother.
Well, my dad wasn't acontractor, but all of his
brothers were and my grandfatherwas.
And so my dad, when he wasstill, um, when he was still
with us, he built every home mymom lived in and he built it
exactly as she wanted it and, um, it was always like his love
letter to her.
(34:14):
Um, I remember hearing myfamily staging homes all the
time and this would be a reallygood way to stage a house so
that you could sell it.
You got to have neutrals dothis.
That it's just a lot of talk,you know.
And so, when, um, my husband andI were no longer poor out of
law school cause there was atime when we were, uh, we didn't
(34:35):
have law school debt, but youknow how it goes, being in
school for nine years and, um,when we finally had the money,
we bought, um, a town home andit was just the two of us and it
was my.
It was my favorite home.
I turned it into everything Iwanted it to be and it's just.
It's that house is just has myheart, and we quickly outgrew it
(34:57):
and knew that we wanted to rentit out.
Well, I did.
My husband wants nothing to dowith real estate.
He's like I don't have time forthat.
It is a job it is, and I makehim fix a lot of things, which
he just loves, and so, and so,yeah, I decided to rent it out
and it's a very desirable rental.
(35:17):
It's right next to a superreputable hospital in a very
great area that doesn't floodand it's raised, and so, yeah, I
was able to turn it into a highend rental and we moved into
another home that I flipped andthen I ended up just buying
another one on the block, and,who knows, I might buy another
one on that block.
Camille (35:38):
Like Monopoly.
That's amazing.
Erica (35:40):
Yeah, and I'm the HOA president, so I make sure that
everything's beautiful, that thehome value is really high.
So, yeah, it's wonderful, and Ijoked at first that the first
home that we got that we rentedout was going to be my oldest
daughter's college fund.
And then I joked that thesecond one on that block was
going to be the youngestdaughter's college fund.
(36:02):
And now I realize how this typeof business if you have the
capital to invest money to get aloan to have tenants pay off a
property you end up getting acheck every month and you're
paying yourself a paycheck.
And, as a woman who may beshifting her life around, may
(36:25):
not be working as much to stayat home, having tenants and
being a landlord in manysituations is extremely
lucrative and it can supplementyour income, so it's been really
good.
Camille (36:39):
That's awesome.
I love that so much.
Well, there are three questionsthat I ask all of our guests
that come on the show, and it iswhat are you reading, writing
or listening to?
Sorry, reading, watching orlistening to?
There we go, and the nextquestion is a motherhood moment
that you would like to share.
Erica (36:59):
Okay.
So I aggressively listen toaudio books Me too.
My girls do not let me holdpaper books and so I am
currently it's actually on myphone I'm listening to.
It's called Assassin's Blade bythe Throne of Glass series.
Yes, so I started with theprequel, which I know was
(37:21):
written third, and so I'm Idon't know a few hours into that
, and it's really good Because Ijust finished the Avatar series
and the fourth wing series.
So, yeah, I'm really enjoyingthe, the fairy, the fairy realm
and the romantic.
And, let's see, I'm notwatching really anything Because
(37:43):
I'm reading so much and I'mcurrently getting my house ready
to sell, so I'm mostly justlistening to books and painting
at night.
And my motherhood moment, ohyeah.
So my oldest and I the babygoes to bed an hour earlier,
(38:04):
right, and so my husband had putthe baby to bed and my oldest
and I were cuddling in my bedand she she was watching her
show Blippi, and um, I movedwrong and my back was killing me
because I'd just been workingcarrying around the baby, who's
30 pounds, you know, yeah,painting, uh-huh, oh yeah,
(38:30):
pounds.
You know, painting, uh huh, ohyeah.
So my back is just shot at thispoint and, um, she said, oh,
what's wrong?
And I said, oh, mommy's backhurts.
She got up cause she wassitting like against my chest,
and she got behind me, rubbed myback and then kissed my back
and said mommy's back is better.
And I'm like, oh, I know.
And so I was just like it's sosweet, it's really.
Um, yeah, seeing them being socaring and loving is just really
(38:52):
sweet.
Camille (38:53):
So oh, I love that so much.
Yeah, I had a similarexperience a week or so ago.
I had I was, I had a fever forfour days and I had gotten sick
from my youngest and it was sosweet to see him take care of me
the way I had taken care of him.
And he got me my water and hesaid and if you wake up in the
(39:13):
middle of the night and he needssome Advil, I'll put it right
here next to your bed, causethat's what I had done for him.
And, mom, can I brush your hair, cause I know you really like
that.
And I was like, oh my gosh,you're the sweetest kid and it's
really sweet.
Oh, I love that so much.
To see that love reciprocatedis just the best thing ever.
Erica (39:41):
And it's it's a reflection of how they view you
as a mother too, because it'slike your son was mimicking you
know, the caring and loving thatyou were giving him, and it's
just like, oh, this is how theysee us and so, yeah, it's really
wonderful.
Camille (39:51):
Best job ever.
Well, this has been such anawesome conversation.
I've learned so much from you.
I would love for you to sharewhere other people can connect
with you online and maybe evenhire you if they're looking for
an attorney on call, because whodoesn't need that?
Erica (40:09):
So yeah, so I'm on most social medias, so I think it's
ericaciceroesquire for Instagramand Facebook, and then my
website is cicero-law-llccom andall of our contact information
is there and so they can emailin, they can call DM me.
(40:32):
You know all the things wherewe have someone available pretty
much 24 7 to answer stuff, soawesome.
Camille (40:39):
Well, thank you, we'll make sure to put those links
below in the show notes.
And again, as always, thank youso much for listening to this
episode.
If you found it helpful, pleaseshare it with someone else.
A review and a five-star reviewon our any channel that you're
listening to is a huge help tous.
So, erica, thank you so muchfor being on the show today.
(40:59):
I appreciate it so much.
Erica (41:01):
Thank you.
I really it was so exciting,Thank you.
Camille (41:06):
Hey CEOs, thank you so much for spending your time with
me.
If you found this episodeinspiring or helpful, please let
me know in a comment.
In a five-star review, youcould have the chance of being a
featured review on an upcomingepisode.
Continue the conversation onInstagram at callmeCEOPodcast,
and remember you are the boss.
I remember as a teenager I always said I wanted to go
before God at the end of my lifeand say I used it all.
I used every single bit oftalent, energy, drive that you
gave me.
There's nothing left.
Camille (00:20):
So you want to make an impact.
You're thinking about startinga business, sharing your voice.
How do women do it that handlemotherhood, family and still
chase after those dreams?
We'll listen each week as wedive into the stories of women
who know this is Call Me CEO.
Welcome back everyone to CallMe CEO.
(00:42):
This is your host, CamilleWalker, and today we are talking
about is it possible to reallyhave it all as a mother, a wife,
a business owner.
Is that even a possibility?
I love this topic andespecially our guest that we're
going to have today, because shetook that question and that
challenge and has really made alife for herself where she
(01:05):
really feels like she has it all.
We're going to dive in whatthat means and what that is for
her, but she is Erica Cicero,who is the founder of Cicero Law
Firm.
So she took her practice in abig corporate world, brought it
into her own home so that shecould create a balance that
really felt like she had hit thelottery.
So, Erica, thank you so muchfor being on the show today.
(01:27):
I can't wait to hear more aboutyour story.
Erica (01:29):
Thank you so much.
It's such an honor to be here.
Camille (01:32):
Oh, you're so sweet.
Thank you, you're so sweet.
I love when I have people onthe show who have heard other
women's stories and relate withthe struggle that it is to like
figure out all the pieces,especially as a mom.
That brings in a dynamic thatreally changes and challenges
what it means to have it all.
So tell us a little bit aboutwhere you live, your family and
(01:55):
what it is that you do.
Erica (01:57):
So I live in Mandeville, louisiana, which is about a 45
minute drive outside of NewOrleans across the longest
causeway in the world and it'skind of a Hallmark town and it
looks like it's in a Hallmarkmovie.
It's absolutely beautiful, andI live here with my husband
We've been together almost 10years and my two little girls.
(02:21):
I have two toddlers and theyare just absolutely delightful,
and so my husband and I met inlaw school.
So we are the dreaded lawyercouple that everybody, everybody
says you should not do that,and we did.
Camille (02:38):
You know.
It's interesting though,because so my husband runs a law
firm in Salt Lake City, and Ihave really been interested in
learning more from the attorneysand their spouses, whether it's
male or female.
The number one complaint that Ihear them say is the hours that
they're working, that it reallyis a challenge and a pressure
for the family.
(02:58):
So I'd imagine being married toan attorney.
You both understand thepressures of what that work
demands, and then also it putyou into a place where you're
like maybe we should reformulatethis, and you created your own
path with that, which I think isamazing.
Erica (03:15):
Yeah, it was.
It was difficult because so myhusband is a total powerhouse.
He's an award-winning litigator, all the things right.
He's the stereotype.
And I took a few years off afterlaw school because I was so
exhausted and burnt out and so Iwatched him just work and work,
(03:35):
and work while I prepped forthe bar and I wrote a few novels
and living my life, my bestlife.
And I realized that after I satfor the bar I didn't want to go
back into that heavy hitterlegal world like he was in, and
that I had gotten out of that,had burnt me out so fast.
And so I kind of created thisboutique practice where I was
(03:59):
just doing estate planning,because I really wanted to be a
mom and that was my number onegoal and I didn't want to miss a
thing.
So I said, look, I got my lawlicense, I practice, I can do
that on the side, no big deal,and I'll just be a mom full time
.
And eventually it blossomedinto my husband working 90 hours
(04:21):
a week, going from differentfirms, having people bid on him
for where he could go, andeventually we just said why
doesn't he come and work with myfirm?
And um, because my firm wasjust snowballing and exploding
and I had these two children athome and, yeah, it's been wild,
it's been a wild journey, wow.
Camille (04:42):
Yeah, so take me back a few steps, because obviously
you are very successful in yourown right.
Was it hard for you to walkaway from, you know, taking the
bar and thinking, oh, I've takenthis many years to get here and
be a part of this and now, like, was that a hard transition for
you to take a step back fromthat?
Erica (05:03):
Oh, it was so hard it got .
It went down to my health,though.
So after law school I started.
We got married right out of lawschool and moved from Cleveland
to to Mandeville, and myhusband had these great jobs and
everything, but my health fromthe stress of law school was
deteriorating, and so that's whyI had to take time off and um,
(05:27):
and then, when I was preppingfor the bar, I developed all
these crazy issues.
I was having autoimmune issuesand all that from stress, and so
he kind of had a sit down withme and he was like you don't
have to do this, You're puttingso much stress on yourself.
And he knew I wanted to be amom and we, I just couldn't get
pregnant.
It was everything, it was justmy body just couldn't do it.
(05:48):
And so I kind of just acceptedthat I may not be able to handle
the stress and everything and,um, I think giving myself the
grace to say I can walk away ifI need to is what allowed this
to go from.
I just work a little bit tohaving this multi-million dollar
empire that I've created,because I've given myself the
(06:12):
permission to ask for help, hirepeople when I need them, hiring
staff and being able to take astep back and say, no, I need
some time off, or that kind ofthing.
That's really.
What was the game changer forme?
No, I need some time off, orthat kind of thing.
Camille (06:25):
That's really what was the game changer for me?
That's really interesting and Ithink that that applies to so
many of us where it's sometimes,when we're holding on to
something so tight that itespecially with our health, you
know where, if you're burningyourself at both ends and not
giving yourself that time andspace to it's really interesting
because I feel like, in a way,this relates to I was watching
(06:48):
the Grammys and Chapel Roan wasaccepting, or she was getting.
It was like the pre-show andthey were saying what do you
think it is that makes you sucha powerful and strong artist,
like you're new here, and shesaid well, actually I've been
doing this for over a decade,but the thing that makes me
really powerful is that I havewalk away power.
(07:09):
And it was Gail Oprah's bestfriend who was interviewing her
and she really related with that.
She's like, oh, that makes somuch sense to me Because I feel
like there is a sense in ourlives where sometimes, when
we're holding onto somethingthat's not meant for us so
tightly that it'll affect ourrelationships, our health, and
(07:32):
health is wealth.
It doesn't matter how much moneyyou make at that point, right.
But then to say, okay, I'mgoing to create a situation for
myself where I have that walkaway power, where I know that I
need to take a step back andreally pause for myself, where I
have that walk away power,where I know that I need to take
a step back and really pausefor myself and create something
that works for me, and I feellike that's what you've done.
(07:52):
Is it's that walk away power?
Would you agree?
Erica (07:55):
Oh, absolutely.
I think that that's been whathas allowed me to build this so
large is that I have the walkaway power from the beginning,
and I also have so many peoplebehind me who can help me
because, um, I realized Icouldn't do this without a
village.
(08:15):
Because, um, I think my mybiggest flaw as a person is that
I'm incapable of accepting myown limitations.
For example, I was telling mybook club this we just read Onyx
Storm, the fourth wing book.
Oh, yes, I'm reading that rightnow.
Oh, it's so good.
(08:36):
And so I was telling them like,oh, I definitely would cross
the parapet, I would definitelybe a dragon, I'd be the best
dragon rider there ever were.
I'm one of those people where,if you tell me like, oh, you
can't run a marathon, I'd belike give me a year, I'll be the
fastest runner you've ever seen.
It's just, I'm delusional,completely delusional, about how
(08:56):
I have no limits.
And so I think that now that Ikind of accept this is what my
businesses are and I'm, you know, I have people who can help me.
I can do what I want.
This is my choice.
I can walk away, I can changemy schedule.
That has given me all the powerin my life and a lot of peace,
and yeah, it's really wonderful.
Camille (09:18):
A lot of happiness has resulted in that, and I would
imagine your health improved aswell.
Erica (09:24):
Oh yeah, I um, magically all of these health problems.
I thought that I had crazyautoimmune issues.
We were, you know, looking intothat kind of thing.
I had, um, all these issues,they all just disappeared.
So a lot of it was, you know,stress, stressful so quickly,
and lack of sleep and, um, whichis probably a huge issue of
mine cause I, I don't reallyhave a lot of time to sleep, but
(09:48):
yeah, so it's definitelychanged around my health.
That is so great.
Camille (09:53):
Well, let's.
So let's take some steps back,because you're in a place where
you're like I want to dosomething different.
I'm going to create thisboutique law firm.
My husband is going to come onboard with me.
You're starting to build a team.
What does that look like?
Exactly Like what are youoffering?
What is, what are yourbusinesses?
You've mentioned more than one.
Tell us what it is that you do.
Erica (10:14):
Okay.
So it's kind of, I guess Ishould tell you like where it
came from, because when myhusband he was a roofer for 25
years, right, and so he had allof these cases where he did
first party property, he wouldsue insurance companies for
property owners.
Well, all the roofers andcontractors he worked with had
other legal needs.
They had business needs, theyneeded people to look over
(10:34):
contracts and all that hecouldn't do that at the law firm
that he worked at, and so Iended up representing them as a
business attorney and I wasdoing a bunch of different
representing them as a businessattorney and I was doing a bunch
of different kind of a jack ofall trades with business.
And so it turned from estateplanning to this business law
and I became kind of a smallbusiness, not expert, but that
(10:57):
became my specialty.
And so eventually, when hedecided to jump ship from you
know big law and corporate lawbecause he was never home, he
was never seeing our girls andthat was really missing ballet.
I remember he missed balletclass and it was like the most
heartbreaking thing for him andhe was like I have to get out.
(11:19):
And so he, yeah, he came towork with me, and so he was
actually able to take on thoseclients that he had a
relationship with in his firstparty property you know world
and expand it.
And so we were able to expandthis business into representing
small business owners.
So we kind of have we havemultiple different methods that
(11:41):
we go about representingbusinesses.
We have a tiered program, soit's almost like a subscription
service.
So, depending on your legalneeds for your business, you can
kind of pick a plan and you payper month and we are on call
for you.
You know we'll draft things,we'll send demand letters, we'll
do all the things, or we canjust do stuff a la carte, like a
(12:03):
typical attorney does.
It just depends on if you needin-house counsel right, and a
lot of these businesses theyneed in-house counsel, but they
can't afford a quarter milliondollars a year for an attorney
with benefits and all of that.
So they hire us and just do amonthly subscription and so,
yeah, we have become in-housecounsel on demand, which is what
(12:24):
we've coined it because we'rethe on-demand attorneys, and so
we've done that and he stilldoes his first party work and I
still do estate planning as well, but we've blown up as business
attorneys.
In addition to that I have, Ihave quite a hobby for rentals
(12:44):
and real estate.
So I have several rentals.
I have beautiful townhomes andin Mandeville, right by a
hospital, and we have just themost cute little private block
and I bought several on the onthe block and I rent them out
and, yeah, and I flip homes aswell.
(13:05):
So, yeah, I know I you are adragon writer.
And so the current house thatI'm in now I'm actually about to
list it because we bought it ayear ago and I flipped it.
It looked like the olive gardenand I turned it into this
beautiful, sleek, modern,colonial, super elegant.
(13:27):
I think I added six or sevenchandeliers, just really
upgraded it, and that's mypassion, all of these things.
Camille (13:36):
That's amazing.
Yeah, that is multiplebusinesses, and I think the a la
carte attorney subscriptionmakes sense because people don't
need an in-house attorney allthe time.
But any business owner knowsthat laws and being sued and
things happen that you don'texpect, so that makes a lot of
sense.
(13:56):
Was that an idea that you hadheard someone else doing, or how
did you even come up with thatconcept?
Erica (14:02):
Yeah, so it.
It kind of it formed out of apublic adjuster that I work with
a lot and, um, he was areferral from my husband
originally back in the day and Ibecame his business attorney
and it got to the point where Iwould get a text message from
him and he would say I need youto jump on a call with me in 15
minutes and it would just becomethousands and thousands of
(14:24):
dollars a month that I'm billinghim to sit on phone calls with
him and he doesn't say anything.
That's going to be a liability,or me looking over a contract or
him just sending me somethingto review.
And it was getting to the pointwhere it was insanely expensive
for him and I realized that ifwe did a subscription type idea,
(14:45):
a lot of other people would beinterested in it, and so he was
able to become one of our firstclients with that and I kind of
tested it out and I lowered myhourly fee and I did a lot of
things included in that and itjust became so seamless and
(15:05):
because of that we've been ableto really expand the firm,
because we have people on amonthly basis and checks are
coming in really regularly.
So it's been really goodbecause I realized how many
people wanted that type ofrelationship with an attorney.
Camille (15:22):
To just say I have an attorney I'm going to call right
now relationship with anattorney to just say I have an
attorney I'm going to call rightnow.
Yes, ooh, that's so smart andwith your love of so, take me
back a little bit with growingthe business.
Where was that?
I know that you said you hadyour girls and your husband
wanted to come in.
What was the timeline of like,okay, I'm going to start my own
boutique thing.
(15:42):
This is getting big.
Now I'm a mom Like how are youbalancing the different parts of
your business and how did thatbuild up?
Erica (15:50):
So it was a very strange timeline and trajectory, because
so both of my pregnancies theywere really difficult, and so
when I got pregnant the firsttime and then miscarried and
then the second, it became avery dangerous type of situation
.
I couldn't walk at the endbecause I had sciatic nerve pain
(16:13):
.
My husband literally carried meto take a shower.
It was rough, and so I hadstarted the business right
before I was able to getpregnant, and so I had this book
of clients and I felt like Iwas doing really well, and then
I kind of had to take a hugestep back, and so it was one of
(16:33):
those things where I feltgrateful that I didn't work for
someone else, because I did havethe luxury of just saying I'm
not taking on new clients rightnow.
But I felt really disheartenedafter I had my first daughter
because I just wasn't working asmuch I would do.
I would take on maybe one ortwo clients a month.
It was very, very minimal work,maybe 10 hours a month at the
(16:54):
most.
And then I wanted to have, Iwanted to try to have another
child right away, and we gotpregnant with the second, and so
I was pregnant back to back,and that one was also risky
because she was a twin and welost the twin.
And so, yeah, it was, it was,it was very, it was a struggle,
(17:15):
and so I just I completelystopped working with that second
pregnancy.
It was just, I wasn't in a goodplace emotionally with the loss
, just, you know, I was soafraid that we'd lose her and it
was a mess.
And so I remember thinking andtalking to my husband when I was
about six months pregnant,saying like I think I'm done, I
think I'm retiring, and he justsaid, well, you have the
(17:37):
business, you can take a clienthere and there.
The business doesn't cost usany money.
Really, you know it's.
You know I wasn't rentingoffice space, I was doing it all
remotely, so he's like, justkeep it open.
And so, yeah, it was threemonths after she was born, it
felt like I just shed that skinof, just like the mourning and
(17:59):
over the loss of, you know, twobabies, and then you know the
postpartum, just everything, Ifelt like a human again.
You know, yes, I was able torealize that I could balance
something.
You know, I could balance it.
And so I started taking on aclient here and there and then I
really liked it and then itstarted snowballing.
(18:20):
Within two months I had maybe15 or 20 clients and it was just
.
It was becoming so much that Icouldn't quite handle it all
myself because I was a one womanshow at that point.
And then I brought on aparalegal and then we got office
space.
And then my husband started toexpress over that year that he
(18:42):
was less and less happy workingat a firm.
He was missing out oneverything.
He was constantly in Texas andFlorida just for work, flying
everywhere missing everything.
And so we kind of made thedecision that he was going to
come and work with me and I wasworking with half of his clients
anyways with other topics.
(19:02):
So you know, it just made sense.
And so, yeah, this boutiquefirm that went from just a few
clients quickly snowballed.
Once I was a few monthspostpartum with my second and
just kind of got out of control.
Camille (19:16):
That's amazing and I love that it lined up with what
you needed in terms of givingyou the balance of okay, I need
a minute and recalibrating afterpregnancy and loss and the
hormones alone.
I feel like it's at threemonths that you really are kind
of just getting that breath offresh air of like oh yeah, I am
(19:37):
a human.
You're just kind of in this fog.
Erica (19:41):
So yeah, that's all of that.
It's like you don't.
You don't even have your ownbody and it's just, it's a lot,
and so I was very fortunate thatI felt like it was.
It was divine intervention theway I had the firm and it was
slow growing, but I was stillthere, people still contacted me
and then it just took off.
Camille (20:01):
That's awesome.
So, as far as figuring out thatbalance of now being this
business owner having these twolittle babies how old are they
now Like?
What are the ages they were,how old are they now?
What's the timeline with thatto give us a perspective?
Hey moms, if you feel like lifeis a nonstop juggling act school
drop-offs, business calls, mealprep, trying to find a single
(20:24):
moment for yourself I've gotsomething for you.
First you need to sign up formy newsletter.
It is free.
I always include the episodes,what's upcoming, what is the
takeaway from that week, and Iwill include a free recipe as
well as, sometimes, activitiesthat have to do with the
upcoming events happening intoday's world.
But I have the mom balanceplaybook for free.
(20:47):
It is a simple, practical guideto managing the mayhem of mom
life so you can finally stopfeeling like you're dropping the
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And the best part, it istotally free.
Head to camillewalkerco to grabyour free copy now, or grab it
from the link below in the shownotes from the link below in the
(21:10):
show notes.
Erica (21:10):
So my oldest Ilaria, she is two and a half.
Camille (21:21):
And your oldest is two and a half.
Erica (21:22):
Uh huh, this is like very recent.
Oh yeah, babies.
Yeah, okay, two and a half.
And then my.
My second is, I think is it 14months.
She was born November of 2023.
So I think that's 14 months.
So, yeah, she's um, uh,giovanna and um, yeah, they're.
They're just, they kind of actlike they're twins because
they're so close in age.
They're 15 months apart and sothey um, it's kind of convenient
(21:45):
now that I'm out of thecraziness with, like, babies,
you know.
Camille (21:49):
Yeah, so yeah, they're walking around.
Now they're just getting intoeverything and running around
everything.
So how do you manage now?
What pieces have you put intoplace?
I know you said you grew yourteam, so tell us a little bit
about that.
Erica (22:04):
Yeah, so when things started getting out of control
and snowballing, I was able tobring on a paralegal a good
friend of ours and I trust himwith everything right.
And then when we brought Chazon and he left his firm, we were
really able to move locations,office locations.
We were able to haveadministrative staff at the
(22:27):
office, we were able to haveparalegals you know,
administrative staff at theoffice.
We were able to have paralegalsand I was actually able to kind
of take a bigger step back anddo more business development and
client relations than anythingelse.
So it's, I still do.
I do work the cases, but I don'ttouch litigation anymore.
That's Chaz's job.
(22:48):
He's he's excellent at it.
I do a lot of the paperwork, soI write contracts, I review
contracts, I draft things, Iapprove all of our media stuff
and I'm very fortunate, one ofmy really good friends is a
media guru, so she does a lot ofthat for us.
But yeah, I was able to kind oftake a step back and be more of
(23:10):
the face of the company andpractice law in a more
non-traditional way and havepeople kind of help me with the
backend.
Camille (23:18):
Yeah, gosh, I think that's the way it should be
Because, again, that's thenumber one complaint I get when
I talk with people, because bynature, I love to interview and
ask people questions, and that'sthe number one complaint is
that home life balance of youknow, I have a son who's very
gifted and in debate he actslike an attorney, without
(23:41):
knowing that that's how he is,and when we've said, the one
thing that's held me back is oh,it's hard for your family life.
So I love that you've been ableto create something that makes
so much sense in terms of owninga business and being a parent
and having a partner.
That's amazing.
Erica (24:01):
Well, one of the big things I remember my dear friend
, my mom friend, melanie, saidto me three months postpartum
after my oldest, she has adaughter who's six months older.
Right, she said the biggest liewe were sold is that women can
have it all.
We can't.
And she was in the trenches,you know, she had a
(24:21):
nine-month-old.
It was rough and I really feltthat and so I thought more about
it and I'm like how am I goingto do this?
How am I going to balance allof this?
Because, like I said, mybiggest flaw is that I think I
can do it all and I I rememberas a teenager I wanted I always
said I wanted to go before Godat the end of my life and say I
(24:43):
used it all.
I used every single bit oftalent, energy, drive that you
gave me.
There's nothing left, right, Ileft it all on the table and I
was like I'm not going to beable to do that if I'm a mom and
being a mom was something thatI wanted to do, be you know, for
so long that I felt reallydisheartened and realizing that
(25:04):
I could actually become anattorney who just oversees more
and I can have paralegals draftstuff for me if I can't, and I
can do client meetings and allof that.
That has really helped Havingmy mother-in-law here half the
time because she lives inCleveland and she lives with us
about half the time now and shehas been invaluable.
(25:28):
I couldn't do that without her.
I don't have a nanny because wehave her, but I don't want
full-time help because I want tobe with my girls.
But sometimes it's hard becausemy husband's going to be in
Texas all week, for example, andyou know I don't have childcare
if I need to go to a meetingreal quick, that kind of thing.
So it's all about balancingthat and figuring out how I can
(25:51):
fulfill my dream of being afull-time stay-at-home mom and
also using all these talentsthat I have and not burning
myself out completely.
Camille (26:04):
I love that Advice for people who are listening and
maybe trying to figure out abalance that works for them.
What would your advice be tothem about striking that balance
to have it all?
What advice would you give tothem?
Erica (26:21):
So I guess my biggest advice would be things look
different for different women.
Some women are being ahomemaker and a stay at home mom
is that's what they want to do.
They don't want to runbusinesses, they don't want to
expand it.
They have the luxury of stayingat home and I think that's
awesome.
If that's where their cup isfull, then do it.
(26:43):
But some women feel discontented, you know, by that, and they
want to expand, they want togrow a business.
They don't want to work forsomeone else.
They want to kind of definetheir own destiny.
And I would say that eachseason of your life it has to be
defined and analyzed in adifferent way.
So if you're newly postpartum,that may look completely
(27:03):
different than it does fiveyears later, because your
children have so much, they havea lot more needs and you're
going to be sleeping a lot lessand your sanity is going to be
on the line to start.
And so I think that analyzingthe situation during each season
and seeing where your needs areand where you're happiest and
(27:24):
what you want, and just askingyourself very realistically give
me five words what do you want?
I think that's.
If you ask yourself thatregularly, it's going to change
and you'll be able to shift yourfocus and make your life more
meaningful and, I guess, driventowards your personal goals at
(27:48):
that season.
Camille (27:50):
Yeah, oh, I believe that a hundred percent having.
I now have teenagers.
My oldest is seven, almost 17.
And my youngest is.
I know it's so crazy and my lifelooks so different now than it
did even five years ago, and Ithink that we in the day to day
can get lost in the demands ofwhat is going on, in the moment
(28:12):
that we think, oh, this is whatI'm in forever.
But it's not like it reallygoes so quickly and our, our
ability to adapt to that isreally so powerful, because you
do need to do it on purpose,though, because it's happening
whether you want it to or not,just how things change and it's
so beautiful and I think, toreally embrace the moment that
(28:35):
you're in, because it isfleeting, it really is.
Erica (28:39):
Yeah, that's how I feel.
I know that my, my children areso small now and they are with
me all the time.
I'm very.
Maybe three times a week Ileave them for meetings for an
hour or two, Like I am with themall the time and I know in 10
years they're probably not goingto want to hang out with me
like this.
And these are the years thatare so pivotal and fundamental
(29:03):
in their upbringing and they'renever going to remember it.
It's just for me.
No, my, my daughter's not goingto remember.
Like working on the alphabetthis morning.
You know, doing those kinds ofactivities, but I'm always going
to and I don't want to miss outon that and so.
But in 10 years, when they needme less, maybe I will be, you
(29:23):
know, in the courtroom more,maybe I will be expanding the
business in a differentdirection.
I can't even imagine that Iwouldn't be willing to do today,
because I don't want tosacrifice my time with my
children.
Camille (29:36):
A hundred percent.
That's amazing.
I love that for you and I donot regret choices I made either
for being able to be there withmy kids.
And what's interesting, I justhad this there with my kids and,
what's interesting, I just hadthis conversation with my kids
this morning where my husbandand I can now we go on weekly
dates, sometimes more because wehave our kids are old enough
(29:56):
now.
At first it was, oh, we have akid old enough that can babysit,
and there were times that wegot babysitters, but pretty rare
when they were young, justbecause we couldn't afford it,
or whatever sitters, but prettyrare when they were young, just
because we couldn't afford it orwhatever.
And now I go out with my husbandall the time and I love it and
it's so good for us to keep ourrelationship strong.
And I was telling them thismorning you have a different mom
(30:18):
now than I was five years ago.
I never left, I was never goneat night and now I can actually
get out.
So you know, and they were like, yeah, it's good mom, it's good
that you, that you get to goout, and they're so supportive
of it, because I feel like ifyour kids see you and know that
you've invested time into themand you have open communication
with who you are.
As a human needing time away,or you know a date with dad or
(30:43):
whatever the thing is, theyunderstand it.
Because they know that you'veinvested your time with them,
they feel filled up.
Erica (30:51):
So, and I think one of the big things for me is that I
realized very quickly thatchildren, they need to see their
parents happy and that marriagehas to be the priority.
And so it's if you're reallydisconnected from your spouse,
which is so easy when you havesmall children.
(31:11):
It's just, you know, it makes iteverybody feels it, and so it's
really nice when you can go ondates and that kind of thing.
And so, yeah, and I think thatchildren seeing their mother
happy and not justself-sacrificing, I think that
when we, as women, are justself-sacrificing, you know, it's
(31:32):
just, it's in our nature.
We.
We give everything for ourfamilies and our children.
And it's really nice, though,when your children can look at
you and say it's so good to seeyou doing what you want to do
and that you're happy.
I love that, and so, yeah,that's my goal is for my girls
to say you know, my mom was sohappy and she, you know she did
(31:55):
everything she wanted to do youknow I don't want to say, oh,
because I've heard so manypeople say you know, my mom
could have been great.
She always said I could havedone this, I could have done
that, but then she was stuck.
And it's like I don't want tobe the woman who's stuck, you
know, and I think a lot of usfall into that because it's so
easy to do.
Camille (32:20):
Yeah, yeah, and I feel like the generation of mothers
today have a lot moreopportunities where we can
create different avenues ofincome and have access to being
more in control of our schedules.
Not everyone is in thatsituation, but I'm so grateful
that more and more are.
That's the whole reason why Idid this podcast was, I hope,
for everyone.
Listening is they think andlisten to stories like yours
(32:42):
where they think how could Iadjust my situation, where I do
have a little more autonomy andI do have that space to be more
in control of what it is thatI'm doing.
Erica (32:54):
And the more as time goes on, this next generation, I
think they're going to becauseof us, because we are the kind
of pioneers of saying no, I'mworking from home, I'm working
part-time, I'm doing this orthat.
My schedule has got to beflexible.
We're the ones demanding afuture for them, so that the
next generation of moms which iscrazy to think that that'll be
(33:15):
my girls it's like I'm trying todemand a future for them so
they can say, you know, if theywant to have children, that they
can say, no, I'm going to workand this is how my schedule is
going to be, so I can dowhatever I want to do.
Camille (33:29):
Yeah, ooh, I love it, I love it.
I want to switch gears just alittle bit because I am
selfishly curious.
Tell me a bit more about howyou got into real estate and
what were those first steps.
And I'm not like buying a block, I'm like that sounds amazing.
Tell us how you got into realestate and advice that you would
(33:50):
have for people who have thatambition as well.
Erica (33:54):
So I think real estate probably was in my blood my dad
and his brother.
Well, my dad wasn't acontractor, but all of his
brothers were and my grandfatherwas.
And so my dad, when he wasstill, um, when he was still
with us, he built every home mymom lived in and he built it
exactly as she wanted it and, um, it was always like his love
letter to her.
(34:14):
Um, I remember hearing myfamily staging homes all the
time and this would be a reallygood way to stage a house so
that you could sell it.
You got to have neutrals dothis.
That it's just a lot of talk,you know.
And so, when, um, my husband andI were no longer poor out of
law school cause there was atime when we were, uh, we didn't
(34:35):
have law school debt, but youknow how it goes, being in
school for nine years and, um,when we finally had the money,
we bought, um, a town home andit was just the two of us and it
was my.
It was my favorite home.
I turned it into everything Iwanted it to be and it's just.
It's that house is just has myheart, and we quickly outgrew it
(34:57):
and knew that we wanted to rentit out.
Well, I did.
My husband wants nothing to dowith real estate.
He's like I don't have time forthat.
It is a job it is, and I makehim fix a lot of things, which
he just loves, and so, and so,yeah, I decided to rent it out
and it's a very desirable rental.
(35:17):
It's right next to a superreputable hospital in a very
great area that doesn't floodand it's raised, and so, yeah, I
was able to turn it into a highend rental and we moved into
another home that I flipped andthen I ended up just buying
another one on the block, and,who knows, I might buy another
one on that block.
Camille (35:38):
Like Monopoly.
That's amazing.
Erica (35:40):
Yeah, and I'm the HOA president, so I make sure that
everything's beautiful, that thehome value is really high.
So, yeah, it's wonderful, and Ijoked at first that the first
home that we got that we rentedout was going to be my oldest
daughter's college fund.
And then I joked that thesecond one on that block was
going to be the youngestdaughter's college fund.
(36:02):
And now I realize how this typeof business if you have the
capital to invest money to get aloan to have tenants pay off a
property you end up getting acheck every month and you're
paying yourself a paycheck.
And, as a woman who may beshifting her life around, may
(36:25):
not be working as much to stayat home, having tenants and
being a landlord in manysituations is extremely
lucrative and it can supplementyour income, so it's been really
good.
Camille (36:39):
That's awesome.
I love that so much.
Well, there are three questionsthat I ask all of our guests
that come on the show, and it iswhat are you reading, writing
or listening to?
Sorry, reading, watching orlistening to?
There we go, and the nextquestion is a motherhood moment
that you would like to share.
Erica (36:59):
Okay.
So I aggressively listen toaudio books Me too.
My girls do not let me holdpaper books and so I am
currently it's actually on myphone I'm listening to.
It's called Assassin's Blade bythe Throne of Glass series.
Yes, so I started with theprequel, which I know was
(37:21):
written third, and so I'm Idon't know a few hours into that
, and it's really good Because Ijust finished the Avatar series
and the fourth wing series.
So, yeah, I'm really enjoyingthe, the fairy, the fairy realm
and the romantic.
And, let's see, I'm notwatching really anything Because
(37:43):
I'm reading so much and I'mcurrently getting my house ready
to sell, so I'm mostly justlistening to books and painting
at night.
And my motherhood moment, ohyeah.
So my oldest and I the babygoes to bed an hour earlier,
(38:04):
right, and so my husband had putthe baby to bed and my oldest
and I were cuddling in my bedand she she was watching her
show Blippi, and um, I movedwrong and my back was killing me
because I'd just been workingcarrying around the baby, who's
30 pounds, you know, yeah,painting, uh-huh, oh yeah,
(38:30):
pounds.
You know, painting, uh huh, ohyeah.
So my back is just shot at thispoint and, um, she said, oh,
what's wrong?
And I said, oh, mommy's backhurts.
She got up cause she wassitting like against my chest,
and she got behind me, rubbed myback and then kissed my back
and said mommy's back is better.
And I'm like, oh, I know.
And so I was just like it's sosweet, it's really.
Um, yeah, seeing them being socaring and loving is just really
(38:52):
sweet.
Camille (38:53):
So oh, I love that so much.
Yeah, I had a similarexperience a week or so ago.
I had I was, I had a fever forfour days and I had gotten sick
from my youngest and it was sosweet to see him take care of me
the way I had taken care of him.
And he got me my water and hesaid and if you wake up in the
(39:13):
middle of the night and he needssome Advil, I'll put it right
here next to your bed, causethat's what I had done for him.
And, mom, can I brush your hair, cause I know you really like
that.
And I was like, oh my gosh,you're the sweetest kid and it's
really sweet.
Oh, I love that so much.
To see that love reciprocatedis just the best thing ever.
Erica (39:41):
And it's it's a reflection of how they view you
as a mother too, because it'slike your son was mimicking you
know, the caring and loving thatyou were giving him, and it's
just like, oh, this is how theysee us and so, yeah, it's really
wonderful.
Camille (39:51):
Best job ever.
Well, this has been such anawesome conversation.
I've learned so much from you.
I would love for you to sharewhere other people can connect
with you online and maybe evenhire you if they're looking for
an attorney on call, because whodoesn't need that?
Erica (40:09):
So yeah, so I'm on most social medias, so I think it's
ericaciceroesquire for Instagramand Facebook, and then my
website is cicero-law-llccom andall of our contact information
is there and so they can emailin, they can call DM me.
(40:32):
You know all the things wherewe have someone available pretty
much 24 7 to answer stuff, soawesome.
Camille (40:39):
Well, thank you, we'll make sure to put those links
below in the show notes.
And again, as always, thank youso much for listening to this
episode.
If you found it helpful, pleaseshare it with someone else.
A review and a five-star reviewon our any channel that you're
listening to is a huge help tous.
So, erica, thank you so muchfor being on the show today.
(40:59):
I appreciate it so much.
Erica (41:01):
Thank you.
I really it was so exciting,Thank you.
Camille (41:06):
Hey CEOs, thank you so much for spending your time with
me.
If you found this episodeinspiring or helpful, please let
me know in a comment.
In a five-star review, youcould have the chance of being a
featured review on an upcomingepisode.
Continue the conversation onInstagram at callmeCEOPodcast,
and remember you are the boss.
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