May 13, 2025 • 49 mins
Have you ever wondered why all the mindset work in the world sometimes isn't enough to create the success you're seeking? The answer might be simpler – and more profound – than you think.
Kirsten Tyrrel discovered this missing piece after years of entrepreneurial ups and downs. Despite building multiple successful ventures and even reaching millionaire status, she hit emotional roadblocks that mindset tactics alone couldn't overcome. The breakthrough came when she realized success requires more than positive thinking – it demands a genuine emotional connection between mind and body.
"That is the magical key," Kirsten explains, "and it sounds so hokey and woo-woo, but it truly is." She shares how early in her journey, rather than asking for strategies from a successful mentor, she asked what being a millionaire felt like. That embodied feeling became more real than her current circumstances – and within three years, she had manifested her first million.
But the journey wasn't without challenges. After business setbacks and personal tragedy, including her father's unexpected death, Kirsten found herself unable to move forward despite knowing all the right mindset principles. The key to unlocking her progress came through physically processing emotions trapped in her body, not just understanding them intellectually.
This conversation dives deep into practical ways to develop emotional intelligence as an entrepreneur. You'll learn to identify your natural stress response, recognize when old stories are limiting your success, and discover how true freedom comes from healing emotional triggers rather than avoiding them. Kirsten also shares powerful insights for parent entrepreneurs on modeling emotional regulation.
Whether you're building a business while raising a family or seeking more sustainable ways to achieve your goals, this episode illuminates the crucial connection between emotional intelligence and entrepreneurial success. Take Kirsten's quiz at quizkirstentyrrel.com to discover your natural emotional response type and begin your journey toward greater alignment between your mind, body, and business ambitions.
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Episode Transcript
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Kirsten (00:00):
Like that is the magical key and it sounds so
hokey and woo-woo but it trulyis.
And you can do all of themindset work you want, but if
you don't feel it, if there'snot a genuine emotional
connection to it, it's justgonna feel like this thing
you're reaching for that'soutside of yourself and not
something that you're in theprocess of creating.
Camille (00:27):
So you wanna make an impact.
You're thinking about startinga business, sharing your voice.
How do women do it that handlemotherhood, family and still
chase after those dreams?
We'll listen each week as wedive into the stories of women
who know this is Call Me CEO.
(00:47):
Welcome back everyone to CallMe CEO.
This is your host, CamilleWalker.
It is so good to have you.
Thank you so much for beinghere and, as always, we
celebrate women who are buildingamazing businesses and also
mothering amazing families.
So today I'm so thrilled to haveKristen Tyrrel with us on the
show.
We are going to be talkingabout how to emotionally
(01:10):
regulate, build up thatemotional IQ, but also how to
build sustainable, healthybusinesses amidst the chaos,
which that's what we're all herefor.
Right, and what's really fun isthat, Kirsten, I said Kristen,
when I first introduced you.
Now I'm realizing that that'sterrible.
That is dyslexia.
(01:31):
I don't have dyslexia, butwe'll say that that's what it is
.
Kirsten, I apologize.
We are so, so lucky to have youbecause you have so much
experience and you have so muchinformation to bring to the
table, and I wish I had pressedrecord before we had started
because we were already gettinginto so much good, delicious
(01:54):
information.
So here we are.
I pressed record.
You're not going to miss anymore, Kirsten, thank you so much
for being on the show today, ofcourse, I was sitting here as
you're introducing me and I'mlike why have we not done this
sooner?
Kirsten (02:06):
This feels like such a natural fit and we've both been
in this space for a long time,which is what we're just talking
about, and it's just.
I'm happy to be here and I'malso sad it wasn't sooner.
And that's not like your fault,that's just.
You know, it's probably myproblem for not getting out
there and sharing all of thisgoodness.
I think it's easy to gettrapped in our own little world
and do our thing and stay in ourzone, but I just love you.
(02:28):
I had you on one of thepodcasts that I host Millionaire
University a couple weeks agoand it feels like no time has
passed since then, so I'm gladwe get another chance to talk.
Camille (02:37):
Me, too.
I think that this conversationneeds to keep going.
In fact, we're like we need toput together a mastermind.
How do we get our mindstogether more?
So fun.
So, yeah, please tell ouraudience more, because there is
so much breadth of knowledgehere and the journey that you've
had.
Tell our audience about you.
Where do you live your family,because I always like to include
that in the context.
And then also, how did you getwhere you are in your journey of
(03:01):
coming to this place ofemotional intelligence?
Okay, so how?
Kirsten (03:05):
long do we have Like four hours?
No luckily, if you want thedeeper dive, I'm in the process
of writing a book, so it shareslike a lot of this in a little
bit more depth, but I'll justgive you the CliffsNotes version
.
I have three kids.
We live in Southern Utah, stGeorge, so in the desert, and we
had like 80 degree weather overthe weekend.
It was wonderful.
I know I know this is why welive here only for about two
(03:27):
months of the year.
We like this is the best placeever to live.
But I was homeschooling my kidsfor about five years and it was
mostly because I had been onthat entrepreneurial journey for
like 10 and my oldest is 15.
My youngest is almost 11.
And I think when you step intothis world of time freedom and
realizing, oh my gosh, we don'thave to go through the system,
(03:47):
like I can create whatever Iwant, I projected a little bit
of that onto our family and ontoour kids and said like, hey, we
don't have to go, just be inschool for eight hours, let's
all be together, let's go ontrips, let's have fun.
We have the financial stabilityto do that.
So we homeschooled for fiveyears and it was a year before
COVID shut the world down, sothat's when I started.
Camille (04:07):
And it felt like you already got a head start.
That's awesome.
Kirsten (04:10):
Yeah, our life, like everybody, felt the change
during that time, but ours wasso much less affected because we
were already working from home.
We already had our kids home,so I was grateful for that leg
up.
And then recently which is kindof part of my story as I get
into the emotional intelligenceside of things and just going
through this level up in my lifein November I decided to enroll
(04:30):
them in a private school herebecause we just kind of hit that
point where I had gotten solost and this is just what we do
and this is our lifestyle thatI hadn't stepped back and said
what do we really want?
What's going to help our familythrive?
How are we going to get alongbetter?
What needs to change?
And I didn't immediately jumpto that.
It actually came with a lot ofprayer and thought, just
(04:51):
figuring out what.
I hadn't asked myself thatquestion for so long what do I
really want with my life?
How do I want to spend my time?
And I tried at first just to dothe self-work which I always
feel like is the most importantthing, and then, after I had
done everything I could, itreally had to come as a family
discussion and saying to thekids, like what do you guys want
?
Are you enjoying the way thisis flowing?
And so we ultimately ended upwith them in a private school.
(05:13):
My husband and I had workedtogether from home for a while
and he even a couple of yearsago, was like I want to rejoin
the workforce, like I want to goand contribute, I want to be
back in that.
The thing we think is awful asentrepreneurs the nine to five
grind.
And he wanted that.
He wanted association and touse his talents differently.
So now I'm like home alone,which is so weird after five
(05:33):
years of everybody being around,and I love it and it's so fun
and I get to spend my days doingthings like this, having
beautiful conversations,coaching women.
It's like the dream life.
It really is.
It sounds so like you know, uh,like not real, but it is, and I
think that's a choice.
Camille (05:57):
Oh, I love that the idea of creating the life with
intention, because you can'tidentify what it is that you
want unless you sit down andthink what is it that I want to
create for myself and what arethe steps to getting there.
And I love that you just laidthat out, because obviously
those seasons and those desireschange and it's okay for those
desires to change and that youfollowed that new path.
Kirsten (06:18):
I was doing some research.
The other day I had a clientcome to me and she was having
this question about like why wasit so easy when my kids were
little to build my business?
And now I'm struggling?
And the idea that came up withthat was you're using an old map
and new territory.
And I think sometimes we dothat.
We're like navigating what weknow, we are capable of doing
things and we're stillreferencing something that used
(06:40):
to work.
And it doesn't mean that we'reawful or that we can't do it or
we're not capable.
It just means we have a totallynew landscape and we need
different guidance, we needdifferent tools, and it's okay
to stop and say, wait a minute,like where, where are we right
now?
Cause we were headed here andwe can't plan the how, we can't
plan every single micro stop.
We don't know what life is goingto bring, and so I think it's
really important to step backand have some intention, like I
(07:03):
said, with that, and not justkeep reacting and pushing and
forcing, which is what I feellike I did for the last like
year of homeschool is just likewell, we're homeschoolers, right
, I have this identity that weare homeschooling family.
I'm a homeschool mom and thisis what we just have to make it
work, and I think ultimatelythat will lead to a lot more
tension and stress than you needto really give yourself.
And you need to detach.
(07:24):
You need to detach from thestories that are attached to
whatever you have been buildingthat reality on.
You know, and it sounds sosimple, but it requires work,
like it was one of the hardestchoices for me to make to change
what had been the norm, and itjust had to.
I had to require, like steppingback and zooming out and saying
is this even like making ushappy, is this even what I want?
(07:44):
And being brave enough todetermine what I really did want
.
And I wish I'd had that sooner,because and I didn't really get
into, like my backstory, butI've been an entrepreneur as
long as I've been a mom.
I think a lot of us do.
We fall into that category,right, maybe even before
becoming a mom, and I think Iwas.
I just didn't realize I was anentrepreneur and so I've always
had something going, since I'vehad children and I started a
(08:07):
podcast.
We were just talking about thislike before people knew what
podcasts were and how to listento them.
Camille (08:11):
This is crazy, I don't.
Nine years ago.
Nine years ago, yeah, tell usabout that.
Kirsten (08:15):
It's so wild.
I was actually a photographerat the time and I had some
people hire me.
They were like we need lastminute photos for our podcast
cover art.
And so I met them at the beachand I had been researching, like
how do we take corporateheadshots of a couple on the
beach?
They show up in like jeans andthey're jumping around and I'm
like what do these people do?
And they were in my.
They went to the same church Idid, so I got a chance to get to
(08:37):
know them a little more andthey were starting a podcast.
So this was for their cover artcalled 8 Minute Millionaire.
I didn't know how to listen.
I thought you had to pay.
Do you remember when you saidto pay per song on iTunes?
Oh yeah, like 99 cents a song.
So I had never listened becauseI thought podcasts were the
same.
Turns out they were free.
So I started binging their showand very quickly was like I
should do this.
(08:58):
I became aware of John Lee Dumasand he was talking about how to
monetize a podcast.
So I was like I don't know whatthis is going to look like, but
I'm just going to try it.
So I jumped in and found myniche.
I wanted to speak to moms.
It was kind of what I wanted.
I needed more connection, Iwanted to hear from inspiring
women, and so I just started.
And I look back now and I'mlike man, I can't believe like
(09:19):
that girl did that because therewas no information, there's
very limited information.
My husband had to set myequipment up that's what I got
for Christmas that year and Ijust dove in.
I emailed or asked 10 differentwomen that I thought would all
say no and I think they all saidyes and I was like, okay, we're
doing this.
And I did five episodes a weekfor several months because I was
like we're putting it out there, we're going to be the best
(09:41):
podcast, we're going to be likethe best podcast, we're going to
monetize, we're going to growthe downloads, we're going to
get ads.
Totally didn't go that way.
The path ended up verydifferently, but it was like the
first thing that I started grewmy network massively.
So many women came into myecosphere and, like I was
telling you before, and maybeeven when you were on my
interview, I wish I had knownand understood back then that
everybody was in the wild westand that I was an early adopter,
(10:04):
just like the women I wasbringing on.
I for so long saw myself aslike a student of life and I was
just so lucky to be graced withthe presence of like
influencers and business ownersand amazing women when none of
us really knew what we weredoing.
We were just like going alongfor the ride, figuring out
Instagram, figuring out blogging, social media, as we were like
the ones who learned how to livestream when that was brand new,
(10:25):
anyway.
So that's like the longintroductory story for me.
But I still, to this day, Iattribute everything that I have
in my business, everyconnection that I have, to
starting that podcast and justtaking the step to grow
something, even without having aperfect roadmap.
So it's evolved.
I've dabbled in so manydifferent businesses, coached in
(10:46):
marketing, done direct saleslike, made millions of dollars
and had lots of losses andfailures.
So that's, that's all the.
That's the broad.
You know we're looking at itfrom that 10,000 miles in the
air or 10,000, yeah, 10,000miles high down at the, at the
journey that I've been on.
So, whichever one of thosethings you want to dive into
more.
Camille (11:07):
I know there's so many good questions, so, okay, I do
have one about the podcast first, and then I want to shift gears
a little bit more into whatyou're doing now, looking back
at the podcast and theconnections that you made,
because I actually have helped afew women coach them through
starting a podcast.
Now, what would you say tosomeone who's wanting to start a
(11:28):
podcast now?
Because I feel like that's thenew hot thing, that everyone's
thinking, oh, I should start apodcast.
And my first question to themis why do you want a podcast?
Because the monetization, Ifeel like, is a little trickier
even than Instagram.
Because it's that's just myopinion, maybe I haven't had a
(11:48):
lot of formal training in it,but just in my experience.
I'd be curious if you weretalking to someone right now,
what would you suggest for themto have a successful podcast and
what are those essentialquestions and answers that you
would want them to have to havethe success podcasting?
Kirsten (12:04):
Man that is so loaded Like I was thinking of all these
different micro answers to giveto that because, there's a part
of me that says don't start apodcast as your like.
Main thing, you want to havesome kind of an audience to send
to a podcast.
It's probably the lowest interms of SEO, so have maybe the
audio as a secondary listeningplatform, maybe YouTube.
(12:27):
Youtube is way more searchable.
You definitely want to have avideo podcast.
So if you're going to do thatand I recommend doing that
anyway, like I loved back in theday when it was primarily audio
because people could just rollout of bed and jump on a call,
but I think nowadays we're sooptimized to want to view video.
So if you want to really doubledown on the content you're
creating via podcast, do video.
So you have clips, you havegood content.
(12:49):
People don't want to go toYouTube just to listen to an
audio file where it's a staticpicture there.
So you want to think that way.
In terms of searchability, Ithink that when I was an early
adopter, I was able to hit thetop charts, like I was, you know
, number two on the iTunescharts back then because, first
of all, it wasn't as saturatedand um, and nowadays, like you,
(13:09):
have to be so much moreintentional about how your show
fills any kind of gap, like itcan't just be you wanting to
share your heart and share yourstory.
There needs to be something init for people and you need to
see, like is there somethingmissing in the world on podcasts
?
Is there a way that people aregoing to actually look for the
thing that I'm talking about?
Or is it just me having apassion project and feeling like
(13:30):
there's something I want toshare about?
And then, with MillionaireUniversity as an example, one of
the things that works reallywell but is not going to work
for everyone is we put a ton ofmoney to grow the listener base
so that at this point it's now amoney machine.
Like when we do an interview,when we have an episode of any
kind, the ad revenue that we'regetting from the show is higher
(13:50):
than like we're making money.
Does that make sense?
Like we might pay for downloads, but the ad revenue we're
getting because we have so manylisteners makes it so that every
episode is profitable.
Um, organically, that wouldtake a lot longer.
It's possible, but it's almostlike you have to be really laser
focused on if you want tomonetize a podcast.
You have to really care aboutgetting your numbers up.
(14:12):
It can't just be this fluffthing.
And, that being said, they'reone of the best to monetize
because you have really active,engaged listeners.
So there's pluses and minuses,but it's not something you just
enter into lightly.
You definitely want to have areason that it fits into your
overall brand and that's not tosay like don't do it because
you're not good enough or yourmessage isn't important enough.
(14:33):
It's just there's a lot ofother ways that you can be more
visible, quicker and grow anaudience faster than podcasting.
It's a good supplemental, but Iwouldn't say it's a good like
top of funnel.
Camille (14:53):
You know what I'm saying.
Unless you're going to pay forads, drive content to it.
So okay, really quick, aboutthe Millionaire University.
Are you running ads forlisteners that way?
Yes, and then for the ad pieceis that through your host or is
that through individualsponsorships?
Kirsten (15:03):
Both.
We have an agent and so they'relinking us up with big sponsors
.
We have, like Spotify.
We have some really big brandsthat we didn't go and garner.
Obviously we're not making asmuch because we have the agency.
But then we also bring on ourown sponsors, which you know,
and it just depends on the CPMsfor you guys cost per million
impressions or per thousandimpressions.
(15:25):
So we do a little bit of both,but even just what's built in.
And then there's like theplatform ones that are specific
to our host, that they'll runthose filler if we don't have a
current ad campaign running atthe time.
So between those like I thinkwe're still even just scratching
the surface on how muchprofitability we can have.
And the strategy over there islike we're running an episode
(15:46):
every single day.
That's what we're working up to, because why, why not?
And it hasn't dinged ourprofitability yet.
So it's just kind of somebehind the scenes of that.
But again, like as a person, asa podcaster, even who's been at
this a long time, I even havemy show on pause right now
because I have to think bigger.
What's my strategy?
Where does this fit in?
And if I'm just doing it to doit just to have one more content
(16:08):
piece, it's not worth it.
Like I have to be so strategicabout how every minute is spent,
even though my kids are inschool.
Now I have like what 25 hours.
You have so much on your plateand it's a longer form content
piece, so you want to make sureit makes total sense and is
going to drive some kind ofrevenue and some kind of like
success into your business.
Camille (16:28):
I love that.
I totally agree with everythingthat you said, that don't have
it be top of your funnel.
It has to make sense.
In fact, one of my friends,alison Prince, are you familiar
with her?
Yeah, she's amazing, and when Iwent to her cause she was a
podcaster that I know and loveand I said what is your advice?
And she said very first thingis you have to know how you're
(16:51):
going to monetize your podcastor you'll end up resenting it,
and that doesn't mean that it'sgoing to be like an immediate
thing that you're selling toyour audience right away, but
that you have a long-term gameplan.
And I think for both of usthat's coaching and that's with
helping women in different ourdifferent facilities.
So thank you for answeringthose questions.
(17:11):
And if you were to say, as faras like the ad piece, how many
listens do you think people needto have to get ad revenue?
or an agency Like how manylistens.
Kirsten (17:24):
I don't know.
Off the top of my head I cantell you where we're at right
now to where we're profitable islike 15 to 20,000 organic
downloads per episode.
So obviously we boost thatbecause it just helps us reach
more people and then itincreases the ad revenue.
But I don't know the point.
I know it's been like a yearsince we started running ads so
it wasn't super long into it.
(17:45):
But, like I said, they investeda lot of money into increasing
audience.
Camille (17:50):
If I get any information on that, I'll let
you know.
Yeah, are they doing adsthrough Facebook or Instagram or
?
Kirsten (17:56):
LinkedIn?
We have, but not really.
It's mostly just the organic,because you can run ads for your
show to be seen as like asuggested episode in people's
feed.
So if they're listening to thisshow, it could show up
underneath and say, hey, youshould try listening to Camille
on Millionaire University.
Camille (18:12):
So that's on Spotify or that's Apple, or they're
running ads separately.
Kirsten (18:18):
Yeah, they're running ads natively through there and
it'll show up to boost the show.
Interesting.
I know there's so many things.
I'm like man, if I had justlike only focused on the
podcasting world at this point,I'd be a multi, multi,
multi-millionaire, because youknow riches in the niches and
it's been such a high evolvingspace and it's just something I
(18:38):
was like, oh, I'll try this,it'll be fun, and I think, again
, there's more ways to monetizethan just directly on platform
ads, like what you and I aredoing.
That's really what I've mostlymonetized is the networking
getting asked to speak on stages, getting asked to write books
and being invited to things andthen having that network of
people.
If I'm doing a business, I haveinstant clients, I have instant
(18:59):
connections, and so that's morebeen my monetization strategy.
And then it's so funny, right,as you, let go and don't stress
about it.
I did start getting sponsorshipand I still, to this day, get
them.
I just don't, I just don't dothem.
And I could, I totally could.
It's just we don't have timefor everything and sometimes you
have to stay really focused inyour lane because ads, even on
podcasts, require there'sthere's a lot of things you have
(19:20):
to make sure that you're doingto to adhere to their
requirements.
Camille (19:25):
Oh yeah, that's its own thing.
Own little ball of wax, yes,yes, okay, cool, all right.
Well, I love that you sharedthat part of your story, because
I think what that touches intothat a lot of us can relate to
is being a natural entrepreneuror someone who wants to build
something.
It is natural for us to dosomething and then want to try
(19:46):
something new and then alsolearn.
But here's the thing is thatit's all information.
It's like building upon andgiving you ideas of what you
want to do, moving forward.
So I wouldn't look at that andbe like, dang, you really missed
out on that, because that's notwhere your heart was.
So it's like, yeah, like youhave that knowledge and you
moved it into something new thataligned more with where you
(20:08):
want it to be going.
So tell us more about whatyou're doing now and how.
Women entrepreneurs need thetools of emotional intelligence
and understanding our storyidentity moving forward.
How do we use that to find thesuccess that we're looking for?
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(20:34):
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Kirsten (21:26):
Okay, so I'm going to just give you kind of a cool
like little story bridge too,and then I'll dive deeper into
that.
Millionaire University rememberthe first podcast I took those
photos for is 8 MinuteMillionaire it's the same exact
people, and so they were myearly mentors, like unofficially
, and I jumped right into thisworld, learned from them didn't
necessarily replicate theirexact business model, aside from
(21:48):
the podcast.
And now it's so cool to lookyears later and I'm on the other
side of this huge mountainwhere I was such a beginner,
didn't know what I was doing,and now I'm a collaborator on
the show and I rememberlistening as they rebooted this
and thinking like, oh, I wouldlove to be able to contribute
and be an expert because I'velearned so much and I just love
this world, I love podcastingand I would love to contribute.
(22:10):
And like within days, justinreached out and was like, what
would you feel about this?
Like, what do you think?
And I'm like, well, that's likemanifestation, if I ever saw it
.
Yeah, yeah, because I hadn'tdone anything tangibly.
And so it's just cool to seelike that is just one little
anchor point in my story toanother in terms of like you
never know where you're gonnahead.
There's so many different likewine, twists and turns along the
(22:33):
way and for me and I'll justkind of share like how the
emotional intelligence layercomes in, and even a little bit
more of my journey as anentrepreneur when I started one
of the cool conversations that Ihad with Tara, who's the other
host of the the show, knowingthat she was a millionaire, I
went to her and I was like man,what is it?
Like?
I didn't say what's yourstrategy?
How do you do that?
Because I didn't even know whatquestions to ask, right?
(22:53):
I didn't know what an emaillist was.
I didn't know what SEO was,none of that.
I just knew you have a podcast.
You're a millionaire.
Tell me, what does that feellike to be a millionaire?
And she said oh, it's amazing.
You can look at a menu whenyou're at a restaurant and you
order what you really want toeat, not what is the cheapest
thing on the menu.
Or you can go shopping and youcan buy what you love, and you
can dress for the body that youhave instead of just like what
(23:16):
the price tag is.
And there was a couple otherthings that she said, and I
remember we had, like gone outfor frozen yogurt, and then, in
that same conversation, she toldme you need an email list, you
need this.
The thing that sunk in the most,though, was like totally
embodying what that would feellike to become a millionaire,
and I will tell you that, whileI have learned tons of
strategies, that moment rightthere was probably the most
(23:36):
pivotal for me, and I stillattribute so much to that
because it was the first time,without even realizing what I
was doing, which is what I teachand help women do now that I
made this total shift, thistotal shift of my story, where,
up until now, I believed well,you have to be a doctor, a
lawyer or have a big, huge,complicated business to become a
millionaire, and I'm now seeingthis family who has three kids
(23:59):
like me.
They're not much older than me,they're millionaires.
That means wait a minute, can I, can I become a millionaire?
Like, is this possible for me?
And then, leaning into thestory that she shared, like the
emotional connection to thatfeeling, oh my gosh, like that's
what it would feel, like Ican't even imagine having no
stress about finances and justall of those really tangible
(24:19):
things right that we'veexperienced if you've had money
hardship, where you have tooverthink everything and you
almost worship money in adifferent way, because it's like
constantly on your mind.
And so I look back and I'm likethat was so huge and what I
think every woman needs to know,that it's so easy to want to
just get information, but it'sembodiment.
It's like fully leaning in.
And I remember coming home tomy apartment, like my two
(24:42):
bedroom subsidized apartment,and being like I don't live here
, like this might be where mybody goes, but this is not where
I live.
I had already created such areal picture of what my life was
going to be and that felt morereal than the reality I was in
and that is like that is themagical key and it sounds so
(25:02):
hokey and woo woo but it trulyis and you can do all of the
mindset work you want but if youdon't feel it, if there's not a
genuine emotional connection toit, it's just going to feel
like this thing you're reachingfor that's outside of yourself
and not something that you're inthe process of creating.
So that was like a huge earlything that I didn't again.
Like I said, I didn't nobodytaught this To me.
(25:24):
Over time, as I started learningmore about quantum science and
brain and like how we're soadaptable and how the quantum
world works and how we areliterally creating our reality
every day we're not justperceiving it I started to
realize, oh my gosh, like that'swhat I did.
That's why this worked, becausewithin three years, I had made
my first million dollars doingsomething that hadn't even been
an option at the time, rightLike it was working in a company
(25:46):
doing sales that hadn't evenbeen formed.
And then you know so.
Anyway.
Now, what I look back on,though, at the times that have
been harder and that haven'tworked, it's when I'm not doing
that.
It's when I'm I lose sight ofvision, just like I said in the
beginning, and you just startgetting kind of carried down the
river of life and you're notdoing it with purpose, you're
not doing with intention, and Iwent through a pretty big like
(26:08):
hardship where the business thatI was doing it just kind of
blew up in my face.
There was a lot of really awfulthings that happened and I was
stuck in this like terribleemotional dip for probably four
or five years and I was stillshowing up like from the outside
looking in.
You probably would have no ideahow bleak things really were
for me because even after likethings resolved the emotional
(26:29):
stuff I was carrying, I couldn'ttalk about it without starting
to like shake and I would justreplay it like I was there again
.
And so I went to a retreat lastyear with some amazing female
entrepreneurs and it was rewindjust a couple months.
My dad had passed away lastFebruary, so we just hit the
year mark of him dying and he'sif you're watching video, he's
(26:50):
here in this little picturebehind me very unexpectedly.
So talk about a shock.
Right, You're going to have thesame like reaction to something
like that as you'd have tolosing a whole business.
And I got invited to thisretreat and I was like this is
the dumbest timing ever.
I committed, committed and thenI tried to pull out and I was
like I cannot go talk to womenabout entrepreneurship Like this
is maybe a few years ago thiswould be a great opportunity,
(27:13):
but now, heck, no, I just I hadto go anyway because I couldn't
get my money back.
So I showed up for this retreatand I met this incredible woman
who taught me things and shedialed in so much.
She was like I bet you keepstarting things, I bet you keep
starting things.
I bet you keep starting thingsand you get just to the point
where you're going to launch itand I bet you sabotage, don't
you?
And I was like, how did youknow that?
(27:34):
And she was like because, basedon everything you've told me,
success to you is extremelydangerous.
Success is scary.
And as she's talked, I was like, yeah, that's exactly what it
is.
And so she helped me and Idecided to end up coaching with
her, went through her wholeemotional intelligence program
and then certified because Irealized this had been the
missing piece.
I had been able to think morepositive thoughts, but I hadn't
(27:56):
been able to fully process thattrauma and that setback and that
hardship that I had gonethrough, where my whole success
was built on this identity LikeI'm a millionaire, I'm this, I'm
this leader, I'm all thesethings.
And once that was gone, I lostwho I was and I wasn't even sure
how to begin rebuilding.
So I was doing all the work, Iwas reading the good books, but
(28:17):
it was just missing this pieceof processing that trauma.
So, at the same time, somebodysomeday I'll share this video I
went through I learned how tophysically regulate your body,
because emotions they gettrapped in there, right, like
terrible things, get trapped inour bodies.
They manifest as illnesses, theymanifest as anxiety and I had
(28:37):
this day where I finally waslike, okay, I'm ready to let it
go.
Sorry, I'm talking so long,this is like the long story.
No, this is great, keep going.
And for me I'm a fighter Likethat's my natural emotional
response.
You know, when we're talkingfight, flight, freeze, I'm a
fighter.
And so I had a medicine ball,slammed the medicine ball down
while finding this song and itwas actually so weird how the
song was like on an old playlistthat was from that time period
in my life, but I didn'tremember the song at all.
(28:59):
I was like, how did this end upon the playlist?
But it was perfect, it totallyembodied, and I was doing that
to just let the emotion go thathad been trapped the night that
my dad died.
Oh my gosh, let me see if I canfind it on the playlist.
I might have to like send it toyou and have you link to it,
because I've listened to it afew times, but again, like not
the most memorable song, but itwas just like where are these
people who accused me?
(29:19):
And it was just like aboutrising again.
And so I listened to that andI'm slamming the medicine ball
and I just lose it and I'm justsobbing and I'm talking to my
dad and I'm talking to thesepeople who had hurt me in these
experiences I had, and it's justforgiveness and it's love and
it's just letting it go.
And I'm sitting here tellingyou right now.
(29:40):
There's times, if I get too deepinto the details of what
happened in my previous failure,that it'll have a little
emotional.
I think there's still somestuff in there right, especially
now as I'm being brave andputting myself out there fully
again.
But when I talk about the nightmy dad died, which was
extremely traumatic, there's notone single visceral response
Like I'm sad, but my bodydoesn't shake and I don't feel
(30:01):
this like anxiety attack.
I don't feel tension in mystomach and to me that's such a
testament of how powerful wehave to connect the mind to the
body, and that was a hard thingfor me to learn.
I'm sure we all are good atthis right.
We're such good thinkers, we'resuch good planners and we can
just live in our mind palacesand solve world hunger and then,
when it comes time to do it,we're like well, what happened
(30:22):
to her, what happened to themotivated strategic plan that I
had and the person I wanted toshow up as?
And so for me it was like allthe difference from going stuck
in this darkness and this mireinto finally moving into a state
of creation.
And it's not perfect, it'sstill a work in progress, but
how powerful is that?
And if you think about it, itcomes back to that initial
(30:44):
experience I had, where therehas to be an emotional
connection, and that, inherently, is what emotional intelligence
is for me.
You know you can define it invarious ways, but for me it's
like being able to have the bodyon the same page as the mind
and the dreams and the hopes andthe plans that you have, and
not trying to fight it, nottrying to like say I don't have
time for my feelings right now.
(31:04):
I have a plan.
I have a business to build.
I don't have time to feel sad.
I don't have time for myfeelings right now.
I have a plan, I have abusiness to build.
I don't have time to feel sad,I don't have time to be anxious
or worried.
So I think, as women, we do that.
We kind of want to push it down, and there's a very masculine
approach to entrepreneurshipthat we've kind of tried to find
our space in.
So I think it's a reallyimportant missing piece that so
many women are trying tonavigate without having that,
you know, and they're justdriving themselves crazy and
(31:26):
they're not sure, like why am Inot doing what I want to do?
I have all the knowledge.
What is holding me back?
And it's probably that.
Camille (31:35):
Ooh, that is.
I mean, there's so much tounpack there and thank you for
sharing that story.
I feel like there is so much tobe understood about our, our
mind, our body, our emotionalconnection, even with.
I have helped a lot of parents,going through my own experience
with my kids and how they'reprocessing emotions and how,
(31:56):
when kids are anxious or notfeeling well, they'll process
those emotions first in theirstomachs or in their digestion
and they don't even know how toexplain that they're feeling a
certain way or that they'reholding onto a certain emotion.
They just say they, they feelsick you know, and so it's.
I feel like we're becoming moreand more aware of what that
emotional intelligence can looklike and they first show.
(32:19):
I mean, look at how it firstshows signs in our kids, in
their stomachs, because that'swhere emotion can be stored
first is in that stomach or inthat heart space.
And so it makes a lot of sensenow as adults, where maybe when
we were kids it was oh well,you're fine, there's nothing
wrong, like you don't have afever, let's go to school, or
(32:42):
whatever the thing is which,trust me, I'm guilty of.
I'm like, if you don't have afever or you're not throwing up,
you're going to school.
And that was before Iunderstood that I had a child
who needed to walk through andtalk through the emotions that
they were feeling and to helpthem feel safe.
And then, once that wasestablished, they were able to
(33:03):
go to school without feelingthat way.
And it's really interesting too,because now, as adults, with
starting a business or doingthat scary thing, we have to
connect our emotions with thatprocess.
And I love how you saidnavigating it in a masculine
space, because men too,especially, are told not to cry
(33:25):
about things or not to feel acertain way about things and not
to let emotion show.
So what have been as you'vecoached people through this, or
for yourself, what are some goodfirst steps of understanding if
there's something that you'reholding onto that you may need
to work through to get to thelevel that you're going for?
Kirsten (33:43):
A good book I'd recommend is the Body Keeps the
Score.
And I'm not even I'm going toadmit I'm not even done with the
book.
It's, I love it, it's science-y, it's like right down my alley.
Camille (33:53):
And.
Kirsten (33:53):
I also sometimes need a brain break, so it's taking me
longer to get through it.
I mean, we're talking years ofgetting through it because I'm
like, oh, that's interesting.
And then I go on a side tangentand want to learn.
All your body will tell you andI think, when you're getting
into that swirly whirly ofthoughts, pay attention to what
you're also feeling and whereyou're feeling it, because just
(34:14):
the awareness sometimes ispowerful enough to help you
recognize, okay, something'shappening inside of me.
This isn't just a thought.
This thought is causing somefeeling and there's like back in
the nineties there was thisreally great tape series by
Janine Brady, like the brighttapes, and one of the songs is
you think it, you feel it, youdo it.
It's that old think, feel, dopolka.
I loved these songs as a kid,so such a such a vibe, cause I
(34:38):
still remember them, like 30years later.
Um, but I think if you realizethat, like every feeling you
have is originating from athought somewhere, and so even
just that, like capturing andsaying, okay, what am I feeling
right now and what was Ithinking as I started to feel
this way, and getting it down,like taking it out of your brain
and recognizing it so you canlook at it, I think this is
(35:00):
something that women don't doenough, even if it's pull your
phone out, write it down in yournotes app.
It's similar to telling yourparents you had a bad dream and
telling them what it is, andsuddenly now you're laughing
about it instead of it feelingreally scary and like
uncomfortable.
So that's kind of two tips inone, I think.
Just recognize, where am Ifeeling this in the body?
Am I feeling this in the body?
And it may not be in the wayyou think.
It might not be as obvious as,oh, my stomach is like tensing
(35:22):
up.
You might feel cold.
You might notice your eyes arelike going unfocused.
You might feel reallyoverstimulated and like this
tiniest sound is sending youover the edge.
And it's because we all havethis like window of tolerance
where we can handle only acertain amount of stimuli, and
the minute we are shot out ofthat, that's where our fight
flight or freeze comes in, andfreeze is actually the bottom of
(35:43):
the window.
This is where you numb out,where you scroll, where you just
get really tired and you justwant to be still and you might
think like, well, I'm calm, I'mfine, and I think this is the
most deceptive one.
A lot of times we can hang outthere until suddenly it's a
little too much.
And now we're like screamingand crying or freaking out on
our kids or like sabotaging,burning the business down
because we didn't honor what thebody needed to do, and so it's
(36:05):
not that you have to sit thereand go.
I didn't have to go relivetrauma, right.
It's just like okay.
When I think about the thing,this is how I feel Like my
shoulders tense, my stomach getsreally tight, I feel nauseous,
so you can literally respond tothat with the same like symptom
specific.
So if I'm getting a stomachache, like go rub some
peppermint on your stomach orsmell some peppermint, or
(36:26):
consciously bring the tension tothe stomach because it starts
to like release and tell yourbrain oh, we're actually not in
a dangerous situation, causethat's what's happening.
You're moving into this fightor flight or freeze, similarly
to if you saw a bear and there'slike a social media trend
that's been going on, likeunfortunately, I mean, my brain
doesn't know the differencebetween needing to clean my
house and being chased by a bear, even though I know that
(36:47):
consciously my brain doesn't,and so I think that that's like
really in depth and that'ssomething that I coach on to
help you find and identify yourown emotional response.
And actually I have a quiz Ifyour listeners want to take it.
It helps you find your dominantnatural stress response type so
we can link to that in yourshow notes.
But or you can go toquizkirstentyrrelcom, because
(37:09):
sometimes even just theunderstanding of like oh, how do
I naturally show up?
I did a masterclass recentlywith a bunch of women and they
thought they were one, and thenthere were so many that were
totally a different thing.
And the thing about the freezeand there's one called fond too.
They show up when you don'thonor your fight or flight, like
they're secondary, when youwere not able to successfully
move through being able to runit off or get away from an
(37:32):
unsafe situation, or youcouldn't fight back because you
had to be PC, like in my case.
I had to, like, maintainappearances.
I couldn't just full on fight.
It's not that I needed tophysically go fight someone.
I needed to let my body feellike I was honoring my need to
protect myself.
And so had I done someairboxing or screaming it out,
(37:52):
like it wouldn't have stifledthe voice that I had, it
wouldn't have led to me justpushing all of this inside,
where then it comes out right.
That's why the shaking happens,because I'm literally freezing.
I'm freezing when I'm facedwith fear, because I couldn't
honor the fight or the flight.
So isn't that fascinating.
Like they are so intelligent andit's I think that it's like
(38:13):
where you align with that thatyou say my body knows my heart
and my mind.
No, I just need to like bringit all together and be really
purposeful and intentional aboutusing emotions for a positive
thing and not let them run theshow in a negative way.
Camille (38:27):
I love that I actually went.
I was attending an event thatwas being put on by my husband's
law firm and there was a personwho was presenting on anxiety
and emotional intelligence andshe said, even turning around
behind you and assuring yourselfthat there isn't someone or
something chasing you will helpto reduce your tension in your
(38:51):
body.
And I'm like that is crazy.
But it's so primeval or what'sthe right term, it's so
primitive Primitive, thank youwhen our brain really does have
some, where we have to have sometools to just help that
primitive side of ourselvesfigure out that it's safe.
(39:11):
And so I think that that is sointeresting, that those
secondary to fawn or to be fawnor freeze is secondary, because
had you ran or punched it out isso interesting to me.
Kirsten (39:26):
Yeah, and there's a lot .
There's a lot sometimes tounpack, depending on how long
you've like pushed that down.
And the beautiful thing is whenI explained to you the day that
I like slammed the medicineball and I just let out this
whole rage of emotions.
It's not like I had to do it tothat degree all the time.
And we're talking what?
Three to five minutes.
And then I was like I feelbetter than I have felt in a
(39:49):
very long time.
I had a friend DM me because Ishared recently, like I said,
it's been the year mark, so Iwas sharing about my dad and I
was talking about like this verything that I'm sharing with you
, how powerful that is.
To say I had this huge eventand I'm not just you know,
speaking out words.
Like I lived this, like I wentthrough the most devastating day
of my entire life and I can sithere and talk to you guys about
(40:10):
it and I can share the rawemotion and it's not going to
ruin my day, like I'm not justunhinged and I'm not broken
inside.
I have grief.
Grief is so real and it's anemotion and I work with it.
I don't suppress it and say,but when I try, sometimes I try
to say I don't have time to crytoday and then I always pay for
it later, like it has to comeout and I honor that.
But I had a friend DM me and shewas like this makes sense now
(40:31):
why?
Soon after my dad passed away,I was in the basement working
out and I just lost it and criedand she was like and after that
I felt so much better becausethe body needed to let go of
this grief and sometimes theworking out like if she had a
natural fight response and shewas just holding on to anger
over that or feeling like shecouldn't fix it.
She needed to process thatphysically and so it is a huge.
(40:55):
Like I said, it's the missingpiece that I think a lot of us
do not even realize, that we'renot honoring and we're just
driving ourselves nuts trying tothink our way through it.
Camille (41:04):
Absolutely.
And you know, even in momentsof frustration, with moments of
motherhood or being, you know ifyou're, if your kid is having a
hard time emotionallyregulating.
But it is not your job toemotionally regulate them.
It's your job to model behaviorso they can emotionally
regulate themselves.
(41:25):
So as for let's twist it alittle bit for, like the moms
listening, which some of you maybe and some of you may not be,
or let's say, how do you do thatwithin a space where maybe
people around you, even maybepeople you work with, are having
emotional responses?
How do you keep yourself in asafe and like a place where you
(41:47):
are rooted and grounded anddoing your own work, so you're
not reactive?
Kirsten (41:52):
Yeah, and I think, well , you just you answered it even
in the question like you have,you can only be responsible for
yourself, right?
We can't control anyone.
That includes our kids, thatincludes our coworkers, and so I
think this what I tell myhusband, as I've been like
teaching him these concepts,cause I've lived it and he's
seeing enough now that he's like, okay, like, show me your ways,
um, but he'll, he'll talk aboutlike well, I just have
(42:12):
boundaries.
You know, when we talk a lotabout boundaries, I just don't
engage with that person and Isaid is that freedom to you to
have to keep, like puttingboundary walls up so that you're
just?
And I believe me, I'm abeliever in boundaries, I think
they're, they belong there.
I think, though, that there arecertain times when we just need
to understand that true freedomcan come from being able to be
with anyone anywhere, and we areokay, like we can still feel
(42:35):
safe.
And I think a lot of thathappens from the inside out and
not outside in, because youcan't control all the
circumstances.
Like if you've lived any dayson this planet, you know that's
the case.
I couldn't control if my daddied.
I can't control if you know mybusiness fails I mean to an
extent right, but like there'sthings that are just going to
happen outside of your control.
Your kids are going to have baddays, your coworkers are going
to have bad days, and so I thinkit's knowing like what do I
(42:58):
need to stay safe?
How do I stay regulated and howdo I give other people space in
?
In what I coach on too, I talkabout like the power of shifting
your stories, and something sobeautiful about this is if
somebody's coming at you andthey're saying things you've
probably heard this analogy Ifsomebody tells you you have blue
hair and you full fully do nothave blue hair, you don't
believe them.
You're like okay, if they saysomething to you or they attack
(43:20):
you and it brings something up,that's a really strong
indication.
There's something inside ofthat that feels true to you.
I'm not saying it is true, I'msaying it's bringing something
up from the past.
And so what I love about goingthrough this process with people
is when you go through thisshifting and you kind of write
down this whole narrative oflike well, they said this or I
believe this about what theysaid, and you take the time to
(43:43):
go through the swap, like youswap the story.
By the end of that, you eitherhave compassion for the person
you're laughing about it, notlaughing at them, but you're
kind of laughing at the wholesituation that you were even
triggered in the first place.
And it's similar, like I said,you're sharing the bad dream and
suddenly you found this wasjust a story.
This isn't real, this isn'ttrue.
And that's not to say we givepeople a pass to be jerks and to
(44:06):
treat us like crap.
That's where boundaries belong.
But to be unfazed by thatbecause you're taking care of
yourself and you're saying thisis only bothering me because
there's somewhere a storyattached to this.
I'll give you an example.
I have such.
I don't want to use the wordtrauma lightly, but I do.
I have a lot of trauma frompast experiences with people in
authority and so when I recentlyhad a conversation with a
(44:29):
business you know a businessassociate he had to call me
after and was like I feel likesomething, I said something
wrong and I was like, oh my gosh, actually no, it's me, and
there was some technical stuffwe could work through, but it
was mostly.
I was able to be vulnerableenough and say in the past when
I get going on a project and Ifeel like I'm doing well and
somebody comes in and tells methat it's not this or it's not
(44:52):
that or I need to be changedLike in the past, that felt
really unsafe because this iswhat happened and he was like,
oh my gosh, I'm so glad to knowthat.
Like I understand and it wasn'tme saying I was totally
justified in being triggered, itwas me saying this is where I'm
coming from.
I'm owning the fact I clearlystill have some work to do.
I thought I had processed that Istill have a story in there
where I don't feel like I'mheard or I don't feel like I can
(45:14):
exist in my genius zone withoutbeing course corrected and like
how cool is that?
To now engage in everything's alearning experience and
everything is like growth for me, instead of just this terrible
thing that I'm going to go rantabout for hours to my husband
and say how unfair is life andit shifts you from this victim,
constant victim, which, I willbe the first to admit, I think I
lived in for the majority of mylife.
(45:35):
And this happens when you'resurrounded by people who want to
rescue you, like, even if theirintentions are good, parenting
right now too, like rescuingyour kids from hard things, can
really take away your ability tonavigate those things.
And so in many ways, I've hadto retrain my brain to not view
life as happening to me and viewlife as happening for me, and
(45:55):
show up as the creator andengage in these challenging
conversations and differentexperiences.
You know different experienceswith people in a totally
different way, and it changesthe game.
I didn't change the person, Ididn't change all the things
that needed to be happening,like with the business and the
course correction he was giving.
I just changed my perspectiveon it and it made everything
feel so much better.
So, like I know that's a broadanswer answer it's going to
(46:19):
depend on the situation,obviously, but even with my kids
you kind of mentioned, like inour families, I can't force my
kids to regulate their emotions,but I can definitely model that
and that's something I learnedas I went through the coaching,
because I'm seeing them.
I'm like, oh my gosh,everybody's walking around like
a bunch of emotional basketcases.
What can I do?
And my coach was like you justkeep doing it for yourself, you
(46:40):
keep being the example and forme that required.
We had conversations.
I told them, when you hear theslamming sound, mom slamming the
medicine ball and it's becauseI want to get my frustrating
feelings out on the medicineball and not on you, because I
love you and I want to show upfor you.
And I had to create that safetyfor myself so that I didn't
feel like my family was going tolaugh and think I was insane in
(47:00):
here making all the noise.
But then, like now, it didn'ttake long, my daughter will go
slam the medicine ball, my kidwill go run around the house.
It's taken practice andconversation to really set the
tone, for that is how we show upand this is why and we bring
them, like I said, into thehomeschooling to private school
transition.
They were part of theconversation and we aligned both
(47:23):
our vision with their visionand anyway.
So that's kind of going off therails a little bit with the
answer, but I think that's thekey is you can only control.
You Use the tools to help youstay in a regulated space, have
the boundaries where necessary,but to me truly, freedom is
being able to be in anycircumstance and you are Zen.
That is the Buddha right,that's a Buddhist mentality.
Camille (47:46):
Ooh, I love it.
Well, obviously, there's somuch more to unpack here and so
much more that you share online.
Please tell everyone where theycan find you and your resources
Of course so, kirstentyrellcom.
Kirsten (47:57):
I'm on Instagram.
Everything's just my name,Kirsten Tyrrel, of course.
So, kirstentyrrelcom.
I'm on Instagram.
Everything's just my name,Kirsten Tyrrel.
It's K-I-R-S-T-E-N-T-Y-R-R-E-L,and you can find all the things
.
Like I said, you can take thequiz if you want to figure out
like what's my natural emotionalresponse type, and then I will
send you some good resources tohelp you function and thrive in
that way.
And, yeah, come check out allthe things.
I'm making a lot more contentabout this to help you shift
(48:19):
those narratives and have thatfull alignment with the life
that you want to create.
And it's super exciting workand I love helping women do it.
Camille (48:27):
I love it.
This has been amazing.
Thank you so much for being onthe show and sharing your story
and everyone.
Thank you so much for listeningin today.
I appreciate all of thecomments and the DMs.
Please feel free to reach outto me and have these
conversations.
You can find me atcamillewalkerco online and on
Instagram, and also on Instagramat callmeceopodcast.
Have a great one.
(48:48):
We'll see you next time.
Hey CEOs, thank you so much forspending your time with me.
If you found this episodeinspiring or helpful, please let
me know in a comment and afive-star review.
You could have the chance ofbeing a featured review on an
upcoming episode.
Continue the conversation onInstagram at callmeCEOPodcast,
(49:08):
and remember you are the boss.
Like that is the magical key and it sounds so
hokey and woo-woo but it trulyis.
And you can do all of themindset work you want, but if
you don't feel it, if there'snot a genuine emotional
connection to it, it's justgonna feel like this thing
you're reaching for that'soutside of yourself and not
something that you're in theprocess of creating.
Camille (00:27):
So you wanna make an impact.
You're thinking about startinga business, sharing your voice.
How do women do it that handlemotherhood, family and still
chase after those dreams?
We'll listen each week as wedive into the stories of women
who know this is Call Me CEO.
(00:47):
Welcome back everyone to CallMe CEO.
This is your host, CamilleWalker.
It is so good to have you.
Thank you so much for beinghere and, as always, we
celebrate women who are buildingamazing businesses and also
mothering amazing families.
So today I'm so thrilled to haveKristen Tyrrel with us on the
show.
We are going to be talkingabout how to emotionally
(01:10):
regulate, build up thatemotional IQ, but also how to
build sustainable, healthybusinesses amidst the chaos,
which that's what we're all herefor.
Right, and what's really fun isthat, Kirsten, I said Kristen,
when I first introduced you.
Now I'm realizing that that'sterrible.
That is dyslexia.
(01:31):
I don't have dyslexia, butwe'll say that that's what it is
.
Kirsten, I apologize.
We are so, so lucky to have youbecause you have so much
experience and you have so muchinformation to bring to the
table, and I wish I had pressedrecord before we had started
because we were already gettinginto so much good, delicious
(01:54):
information.
So here we are.
I pressed record.
You're not going to miss anymore, Kirsten, thank you so much
for being on the show today, ofcourse, I was sitting here as
you're introducing me and I'mlike why have we not done this
sooner?
Kirsten (02:06):
This feels like such a natural fit and we've both been
in this space for a long time,which is what we're just talking
about, and it's just.
I'm happy to be here and I'malso sad it wasn't sooner.
And that's not like your fault,that's just.
You know, it's probably myproblem for not getting out
there and sharing all of thisgoodness.
I think it's easy to gettrapped in our own little world
and do our thing and stay in ourzone, but I just love you.
(02:28):
I had you on one of thepodcasts that I host Millionaire
University a couple weeks agoand it feels like no time has
passed since then, so I'm gladwe get another chance to talk.
Camille (02:37):
Me, too.
I think that this conversationneeds to keep going.
In fact, we're like we need toput together a mastermind.
How do we get our mindstogether more?
So fun.
So, yeah, please tell ouraudience more, because there is
so much breadth of knowledgehere and the journey that you've
had.
Tell our audience about you.
Where do you live your family,because I always like to include
that in the context.
And then also, how did you getwhere you are in your journey of
(03:01):
coming to this place ofemotional intelligence?
Okay, so how?
Kirsten (03:05):
long do we have Like four hours?
No luckily, if you want thedeeper dive, I'm in the process
of writing a book, so it shareslike a lot of this in a little
bit more depth, but I'll justgive you the CliffsNotes version
.
I have three kids.
We live in Southern Utah, stGeorge, so in the desert, and we
had like 80 degree weather overthe weekend.
It was wonderful.
I know I know this is why welive here only for about two
(03:27):
months of the year.
We like this is the best placeever to live.
But I was homeschooling my kidsfor about five years and it was
mostly because I had been onthat entrepreneurial journey for
like 10 and my oldest is 15.
My youngest is almost 11.
And I think when you step intothis world of time freedom and
realizing, oh my gosh, we don'thave to go through the system,
(03:47):
like I can create whatever Iwant, I projected a little bit
of that onto our family and ontoour kids and said like, hey, we
don't have to go, just be inschool for eight hours, let's
all be together, let's go ontrips, let's have fun.
We have the financial stabilityto do that.
So we homeschooled for fiveyears and it was a year before
COVID shut the world down, sothat's when I started.
Camille (04:07):
And it felt like you already got a head start.
That's awesome.
Kirsten (04:10):
Yeah, our life, like everybody, felt the change
during that time, but ours wasso much less affected because we
were already working from home.
We already had our kids home,so I was grateful for that leg
up.
And then recently which is kindof part of my story as I get
into the emotional intelligenceside of things and just going
through this level up in my lifein November I decided to enroll
(04:30):
them in a private school herebecause we just kind of hit that
point where I had gotten solost and this is just what we do
and this is our lifestyle thatI hadn't stepped back and said
what do we really want?
What's going to help our familythrive?
How are we going to get alongbetter?
What needs to change?
And I didn't immediately jumpto that.
It actually came with a lot ofprayer and thought, just
(04:51):
figuring out what.
I hadn't asked myself thatquestion for so long what do I
really want with my life?
How do I want to spend my time?
And I tried at first just to dothe self-work which I always
feel like is the most importantthing, and then, after I had
done everything I could, itreally had to come as a family
discussion and saying to thekids, like what do you guys want
?
Are you enjoying the way thisis flowing?
And so we ultimately ended upwith them in a private school.
(05:13):
My husband and I had workedtogether from home for a while
and he even a couple of yearsago, was like I want to rejoin
the workforce, like I want to goand contribute, I want to be
back in that.
The thing we think is awful asentrepreneurs the nine to five
grind.
And he wanted that.
He wanted association and touse his talents differently.
So now I'm like home alone,which is so weird after five
(05:33):
years of everybody being around,and I love it and it's so fun
and I get to spend my days doingthings like this, having
beautiful conversations,coaching women.
It's like the dream life.
It really is.
It sounds so like you know, uh,like not real, but it is, and I
think that's a choice.
Camille (05:57):
Oh, I love that the idea of creating the life with
intention, because you can'tidentify what it is that you
want unless you sit down andthink what is it that I want to
create for myself and what arethe steps to getting there.
And I love that you just laidthat out, because obviously
those seasons and those desireschange and it's okay for those
desires to change and that youfollowed that new path.
Kirsten (06:18):
I was doing some research.
The other day I had a clientcome to me and she was having
this question about like why wasit so easy when my kids were
little to build my business?
And now I'm struggling?
And the idea that came up withthat was you're using an old map
and new territory.
And I think sometimes we dothat.
We're like navigating what weknow, we are capable of doing
things and we're stillreferencing something that used
(06:40):
to work.
And it doesn't mean that we'reawful or that we can't do it or
we're not capable.
It just means we have a totallynew landscape and we need
different guidance, we needdifferent tools, and it's okay
to stop and say, wait a minute,like where, where are we right
now?
Cause we were headed here andwe can't plan the how, we can't
plan every single micro stop.
We don't know what life is goingto bring, and so I think it's
really important to step backand have some intention, like I
(07:03):
said, with that, and not justkeep reacting and pushing and
forcing, which is what I feellike I did for the last like
year of homeschool is just likewell, we're homeschoolers, right
, I have this identity that weare homeschooling family.
I'm a homeschool mom and thisis what we just have to make it
work, and I think ultimatelythat will lead to a lot more
tension and stress than you needto really give yourself.
And you need to detach.
(07:24):
You need to detach from thestories that are attached to
whatever you have been buildingthat reality on.
You know, and it sounds sosimple, but it requires work,
like it was one of the hardestchoices for me to make to change
what had been the norm, and itjust had to.
I had to require, like steppingback and zooming out and saying
is this even like making ushappy, is this even what I want?
(07:44):
And being brave enough todetermine what I really did want
.
And I wish I'd had that sooner,because and I didn't really get
into, like my backstory, butI've been an entrepreneur as
long as I've been a mom.
I think a lot of us do.
We fall into that category,right, maybe even before
becoming a mom, and I think Iwas.
I just didn't realize I was anentrepreneur and so I've always
had something going, since I'vehad children and I started a
(08:07):
podcast.
We were just talking about thislike before people knew what
podcasts were and how to listento them.
Camille (08:11):
This is crazy, I don't.
Nine years ago.
Nine years ago, yeah, tell usabout that.
Kirsten (08:15):
It's so wild.
I was actually a photographerat the time and I had some
people hire me.
They were like we need lastminute photos for our podcast
cover art.
And so I met them at the beachand I had been researching, like
how do we take corporateheadshots of a couple on the
beach?
They show up in like jeans andthey're jumping around and I'm
like what do these people do?
And they were in my.
They went to the same church Idid, so I got a chance to get to
(08:37):
know them a little more andthey were starting a podcast.
So this was for their cover artcalled 8 Minute Millionaire.
I didn't know how to listen.
I thought you had to pay.
Do you remember when you saidto pay per song on iTunes?
Oh yeah, like 99 cents a song.
So I had never listened becauseI thought podcasts were the
same.
Turns out they were free.
So I started binging their showand very quickly was like I
should do this.
(08:58):
I became aware of John Lee Dumasand he was talking about how to
monetize a podcast.
So I was like I don't know whatthis is going to look like, but
I'm just going to try it.
So I jumped in and found myniche.
I wanted to speak to moms.
It was kind of what I wanted.
I needed more connection, Iwanted to hear from inspiring
women, and so I just started.
And I look back now and I'mlike man, I can't believe like
(09:19):
that girl did that because therewas no information, there's
very limited information.
My husband had to set myequipment up that's what I got
for Christmas that year and Ijust dove in.
I emailed or asked 10 differentwomen that I thought would all
say no and I think they all saidyes and I was like, okay, we're
doing this.
And I did five episodes a weekfor several months because I was
like we're putting it out there, we're going to be the best
(09:41):
podcast, we're going to be likethe best podcast, we're going to
monetize, we're going to growthe downloads, we're going to
get ads.
Totally didn't go that way.
The path ended up verydifferently, but it was like the
first thing that I started grewmy network massively.
So many women came into myecosphere and, like I was
telling you before, and maybeeven when you were on my
interview, I wish I had knownand understood back then that
everybody was in the wild westand that I was an early adopter,
(10:04):
just like the women I wasbringing on.
I for so long saw myself aslike a student of life and I was
just so lucky to be graced withthe presence of like
influencers and business ownersand amazing women when none of
us really knew what we weredoing.
We were just like going alongfor the ride, figuring out
Instagram, figuring out blogging, social media, as we were like
the ones who learned how to livestream when that was brand new,
(10:25):
anyway.
So that's like the longintroductory story for me.
But I still, to this day, Iattribute everything that I have
in my business, everyconnection that I have, to
starting that podcast and justtaking the step to grow
something, even without having aperfect roadmap.
So it's evolved.
I've dabbled in so manydifferent businesses, coached in
(10:46):
marketing, done direct saleslike, made millions of dollars
and had lots of losses andfailures.
So that's, that's all the.
That's the broad.
You know we're looking at itfrom that 10,000 miles in the
air or 10,000, yeah, 10,000miles high down at the, at the
journey that I've been on.
So, whichever one of thosethings you want to dive into
more.
Camille (11:07):
I know there's so many good questions, so, okay, I do
have one about the podcast first, and then I want to shift gears
a little bit more into whatyou're doing now, looking back
at the podcast and theconnections that you made,
because I actually have helped afew women coach them through
starting a podcast.
Now, what would you say tosomeone who's wanting to start a
(11:28):
podcast now?
Because I feel like that's thenew hot thing, that everyone's
thinking, oh, I should start apodcast.
And my first question to themis why do you want a podcast?
Because the monetization, Ifeel like, is a little trickier
even than Instagram.
Because it's that's just myopinion, maybe I haven't had a
(11:48):
lot of formal training in it,but just in my experience.
I'd be curious if you weretalking to someone right now,
what would you suggest for themto have a successful podcast and
what are those essentialquestions and answers that you
would want them to have to havethe success podcasting?
Kirsten (12:04):
Man that is so loaded Like I was thinking of all these
different micro answers to giveto that because, there's a part
of me that says don't start apodcast as your like.
Main thing, you want to havesome kind of an audience to send
to a podcast.
It's probably the lowest interms of SEO, so have maybe the
audio as a secondary listeningplatform, maybe YouTube.
(12:27):
Youtube is way more searchable.
You definitely want to have avideo podcast.
So if you're going to do thatand I recommend doing that
anyway, like I loved back in theday when it was primarily audio
because people could just rollout of bed and jump on a call,
but I think nowadays we're sooptimized to want to view video.
So if you want to really doubledown on the content you're
creating via podcast, do video.
So you have clips, you havegood content.
(12:49):
People don't want to go toYouTube just to listen to an
audio file where it's a staticpicture there.
So you want to think that way.
In terms of searchability, Ithink that when I was an early
adopter, I was able to hit thetop charts, like I was, you know
, number two on the iTunescharts back then because, first
of all, it wasn't as saturatedand um, and nowadays, like you,
(13:09):
have to be so much moreintentional about how your show
fills any kind of gap, like itcan't just be you wanting to
share your heart and share yourstory.
There needs to be something init for people and you need to
see, like is there somethingmissing in the world on podcasts
?
Is there a way that people aregoing to actually look for the
thing that I'm talking about?
Or is it just me having apassion project and feeling like
(13:30):
there's something I want toshare about?
And then, with MillionaireUniversity as an example, one of
the things that works reallywell but is not going to work
for everyone is we put a ton ofmoney to grow the listener base
so that at this point it's now amoney machine.
Like when we do an interview,when we have an episode of any
kind, the ad revenue that we'regetting from the show is higher
(13:50):
than like we're making money.
Does that make sense?
Like we might pay for downloads, but the ad revenue we're
getting because we have so manylisteners makes it so that every
episode is profitable.
Um, organically, that wouldtake a lot longer.
It's possible, but it's almostlike you have to be really laser
focused on if you want tomonetize a podcast.
You have to really care aboutgetting your numbers up.
(14:12):
It can't just be this fluffthing.
And, that being said, they'reone of the best to monetize
because you have really active,engaged listeners.
So there's pluses and minuses,but it's not something you just
enter into lightly.
You definitely want to have areason that it fits into your
overall brand and that's not tosay like don't do it because
you're not good enough or yourmessage isn't important enough.
(14:33):
It's just there's a lot ofother ways that you can be more
visible, quicker and grow anaudience faster than podcasting.
It's a good supplemental, but Iwouldn't say it's a good like
top of funnel.
Camille (14:53):
You know what I'm saying.
Unless you're going to pay forads, drive content to it.
So okay, really quick, aboutthe Millionaire University.
Are you running ads forlisteners that way?
Yes, and then for the ad pieceis that through your host or is
that through individualsponsorships?
Kirsten (15:03):
Both.
We have an agent and so they'relinking us up with big sponsors
.
We have, like Spotify.
We have some really big brandsthat we didn't go and garner.
Obviously we're not making asmuch because we have the agency.
But then we also bring on ourown sponsors, which you know,
and it just depends on the CPMsfor you guys cost per million
impressions or per thousandimpressions.
(15:25):
So we do a little bit of both,but even just what's built in.
And then there's like theplatform ones that are specific
to our host, that they'll runthose filler if we don't have a
current ad campaign running atthe time.
So between those like I thinkwe're still even just scratching
the surface on how muchprofitability we can have.
And the strategy over there islike we're running an episode
(15:46):
every single day.
That's what we're working up to, because why, why not?
And it hasn't dinged ourprofitability yet.
So it's just kind of somebehind the scenes of that.
But again, like as a person, asa podcaster, even who's been at
this a long time, I even havemy show on pause right now
because I have to think bigger.
What's my strategy?
Where does this fit in?
And if I'm just doing it to doit just to have one more content
(16:08):
piece, it's not worth it.
Like I have to be so strategicabout how every minute is spent,
even though my kids are inschool.
Now I have like what 25 hours.
You have so much on your plateand it's a longer form content
piece, so you want to make sureit makes total sense and is
going to drive some kind ofrevenue and some kind of like
success into your business.
Camille (16:28):
I love that.
I totally agree with everythingthat you said, that don't have
it be top of your funnel.
It has to make sense.
In fact, one of my friends,alison Prince, are you familiar
with her?
Yeah, she's amazing, and when Iwent to her cause she was a
podcaster that I know and loveand I said what is your advice?
And she said very first thingis you have to know how you're
(16:51):
going to monetize your podcastor you'll end up resenting it,
and that doesn't mean that it'sgoing to be like an immediate
thing that you're selling toyour audience right away, but
that you have a long-term gameplan.
And I think for both of usthat's coaching and that's with
helping women in different ourdifferent facilities.
So thank you for answeringthose questions.
(17:11):
And if you were to say, as faras like the ad piece, how many
listens do you think people needto have to get ad revenue?
or an agency Like how manylistens.
Kirsten (17:24):
I don't know.
Off the top of my head I cantell you where we're at right
now to where we're profitable islike 15 to 20,000 organic
downloads per episode.
So obviously we boost thatbecause it just helps us reach
more people and then itincreases the ad revenue.
But I don't know the point.
I know it's been like a yearsince we started running ads so
it wasn't super long into it.
(17:45):
But, like I said, they investeda lot of money into increasing
audience.
Camille (17:50):
If I get any information on that, I'll let
you know.
Yeah, are they doing adsthrough Facebook or Instagram or
?
Kirsten (17:56):
LinkedIn?
We have, but not really.
It's mostly just the organic,because you can run ads for your
show to be seen as like asuggested episode in people's
feed.
So if they're listening to thisshow, it could show up
underneath and say, hey, youshould try listening to Camille
on Millionaire University.
Camille (18:12):
So that's on Spotify or that's Apple, or they're
running ads separately.
Kirsten (18:18):
Yeah, they're running ads natively through there and
it'll show up to boost the show.
Interesting.
I know there's so many things.
I'm like man, if I had justlike only focused on the
podcasting world at this point,I'd be a multi, multi,
multi-millionaire, because youknow riches in the niches and
it's been such a high evolvingspace and it's just something I
(18:38):
was like, oh, I'll try this,it'll be fun, and I think, again
, there's more ways to monetizethan just directly on platform
ads, like what you and I aredoing.
That's really what I've mostlymonetized is the networking
getting asked to speak on stages, getting asked to write books
and being invited to things andthen having that network of
people.
If I'm doing a business, I haveinstant clients, I have instant
(18:59):
connections, and so that's morebeen my monetization strategy.
And then it's so funny, right,as you, let go and don't stress
about it.
I did start getting sponsorshipand I still, to this day, get
them.
I just don't, I just don't dothem.
And I could, I totally could.
It's just we don't have timefor everything and sometimes you
have to stay really focused inyour lane because ads, even on
podcasts, require there'sthere's a lot of things you have
(19:20):
to make sure that you're doingto to adhere to their
requirements.
Camille (19:25):
Oh yeah, that's its own thing.
Own little ball of wax, yes,yes, okay, cool, all right.
Well, I love that you sharedthat part of your story, because
I think what that touches intothat a lot of us can relate to
is being a natural entrepreneuror someone who wants to build
something.
It is natural for us to dosomething and then want to try
(19:46):
something new and then alsolearn.
But here's the thing is thatit's all information.
It's like building upon andgiving you ideas of what you
want to do, moving forward.
So I wouldn't look at that andbe like, dang, you really missed
out on that, because that's notwhere your heart was.
So it's like, yeah, like youhave that knowledge and you
moved it into something new thataligned more with where you
(20:08):
want it to be going.
So tell us more about whatyou're doing now and how.
Women entrepreneurs need thetools of emotional intelligence
and understanding our storyidentity moving forward.
How do we use that to find thesuccess that we're looking for?
Are you ready to reclaim yourtime and finally focus on the
(20:34):
tasks that actually grow yourbusiness?
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Kirsten (21:26):
Okay, so I'm going to just give you kind of a cool
like little story bridge too,and then I'll dive deeper into
that.
Millionaire University rememberthe first podcast I took those
photos for is 8 MinuteMillionaire it's the same exact
people, and so they were myearly mentors, like unofficially
, and I jumped right into thisworld, learned from them didn't
necessarily replicate theirexact business model, aside from
(21:48):
the podcast.
And now it's so cool to lookyears later and I'm on the other
side of this huge mountainwhere I was such a beginner,
didn't know what I was doing,and now I'm a collaborator on
the show and I rememberlistening as they rebooted this
and thinking like, oh, I wouldlove to be able to contribute
and be an expert because I'velearned so much and I just love
this world, I love podcastingand I would love to contribute.
(22:10):
And like within days, justinreached out and was like, what
would you feel about this?
Like, what do you think?
And I'm like, well, that's likemanifestation, if I ever saw it
.
Yeah, yeah, because I hadn'tdone anything tangibly.
And so it's just cool to seelike that is just one little
anchor point in my story toanother in terms of like you
never know where you're gonnahead.
There's so many different likewine, twists and turns along the
(22:33):
way and for me and I'll justkind of share like how the
emotional intelligence layercomes in, and even a little bit
more of my journey as anentrepreneur when I started one
of the cool conversations that Ihad with Tara, who's the other
host of the the show, knowingthat she was a millionaire, I
went to her and I was like man,what is it?
Like?
I didn't say what's yourstrategy?
How do you do that?
Because I didn't even know whatquestions to ask, right?
(22:53):
I didn't know what an emaillist was.
I didn't know what SEO was,none of that.
I just knew you have a podcast.
You're a millionaire.
Tell me, what does that feellike to be a millionaire?
And she said oh, it's amazing.
You can look at a menu whenyou're at a restaurant and you
order what you really want toeat, not what is the cheapest
thing on the menu.
Or you can go shopping and youcan buy what you love, and you
can dress for the body that youhave instead of just like what
(23:16):
the price tag is.
And there was a couple otherthings that she said, and I
remember we had, like gone outfor frozen yogurt, and then, in
that same conversation, she toldme you need an email list, you
need this.
The thing that sunk in the most,though, was like totally
embodying what that would feellike to become a millionaire,
and I will tell you that, whileI have learned tons of
strategies, that moment rightthere was probably the most
(23:36):
pivotal for me, and I stillattribute so much to that
because it was the first time,without even realizing what I
was doing, which is what I teachand help women do now that I
made this total shift, thistotal shift of my story, where,
up until now, I believed well,you have to be a doctor, a
lawyer or have a big, huge,complicated business to become a
millionaire, and I'm now seeingthis family who has three kids
(23:59):
like me.
They're not much older than me,they're millionaires.
That means wait a minute, can I, can I become a millionaire?
Like, is this possible for me?
And then, leaning into thestory that she shared, like the
emotional connection to thatfeeling, oh my gosh, like that's
what it would feel, like Ican't even imagine having no
stress about finances and justall of those really tangible
(24:19):
things right that we'veexperienced if you've had money
hardship, where you have tooverthink everything and you
almost worship money in adifferent way, because it's like
constantly on your mind.
And so I look back and I'm likethat was so huge and what I
think every woman needs to know,that it's so easy to want to
just get information, but it'sembodiment.
It's like fully leaning in.
And I remember coming home tomy apartment, like my two
(24:42):
bedroom subsidized apartment,and being like I don't live here
, like this might be where mybody goes, but this is not where
I live.
I had already created such areal picture of what my life was
going to be and that felt morereal than the reality I was in
and that is like that is themagical key and it sounds so
(25:02):
hokey and woo woo but it trulyis and you can do all of the
mindset work you want but if youdon't feel it, if there's not a
genuine emotional connection toit, it's just going to feel
like this thing you're reachingfor that's outside of yourself
and not something that you're inthe process of creating.
So that was like a huge earlything that I didn't again.
Like I said, I didn't nobodytaught this To me.
(25:24):
Over time, as I started learningmore about quantum science and
brain and like how we're soadaptable and how the quantum
world works and how we areliterally creating our reality
every day we're not justperceiving it I started to
realize, oh my gosh, like that'swhat I did.
That's why this worked, becausewithin three years, I had made
my first million dollars doingsomething that hadn't even been
an option at the time, rightLike it was working in a company
(25:46):
doing sales that hadn't evenbeen formed.
And then you know so.
Anyway.
Now, what I look back on,though, at the times that have
been harder and that haven'tworked, it's when I'm not doing
that.
It's when I'm I lose sight ofvision, just like I said in the
beginning, and you just startgetting kind of carried down the
river of life and you're notdoing it with purpose, you're
not doing with intention, and Iwent through a pretty big like
(26:08):
hardship where the business thatI was doing it just kind of
blew up in my face.
There was a lot of really awfulthings that happened and I was
stuck in this like terribleemotional dip for probably four
or five years and I was stillshowing up like from the outside
looking in.
You probably would have no ideahow bleak things really were
for me because even after likethings resolved the emotional
(26:29):
stuff I was carrying, I couldn'ttalk about it without starting
to like shake and I would justreplay it like I was there again
.
And so I went to a retreat lastyear with some amazing female
entrepreneurs and it was rewindjust a couple months.
My dad had passed away lastFebruary, so we just hit the
year mark of him dying and he'sif you're watching video, he's
(26:50):
here in this little picturebehind me very unexpectedly.
So talk about a shock.
Right, You're going to have thesame like reaction to something
like that as you'd have tolosing a whole business.
And I got invited to thisretreat and I was like this is
the dumbest timing ever.
I committed, committed and thenI tried to pull out and I was
like I cannot go talk to womenabout entrepreneurship Like this
is maybe a few years ago thiswould be a great opportunity,
(27:13):
but now, heck, no, I just I hadto go anyway because I couldn't
get my money back.
So I showed up for this retreatand I met this incredible woman
who taught me things and shedialed in so much.
She was like I bet you keepstarting things, I bet you keep
starting things.
I bet you keep starting thingsand you get just to the point
where you're going to launch itand I bet you sabotage, don't
you?
And I was like, how did youknow that?
(27:34):
And she was like because, basedon everything you've told me,
success to you is extremelydangerous.
Success is scary.
And as she's talked, I was like, yeah, that's exactly what it
is.
And so she helped me and Idecided to end up coaching with
her, went through her wholeemotional intelligence program
and then certified because Irealized this had been the
missing piece.
I had been able to think morepositive thoughts, but I hadn't
(27:56):
been able to fully process thattrauma and that setback and that
hardship that I had gonethrough, where my whole success
was built on this identity LikeI'm a millionaire, I'm this, I'm
this leader, I'm all thesethings.
And once that was gone, I lostwho I was and I wasn't even sure
how to begin rebuilding.
So I was doing all the work, Iwas reading the good books, but
(28:17):
it was just missing this pieceof processing that trauma.
So, at the same time, somebodysomeday I'll share this video I
went through I learned how tophysically regulate your body,
because emotions they gettrapped in there, right, like
terrible things, get trapped inour bodies.
They manifest as illnesses, theymanifest as anxiety and I had
(28:37):
this day where I finally waslike, okay, I'm ready to let it
go.
Sorry, I'm talking so long,this is like the long story.
No, this is great, keep going.
And for me I'm a fighter Likethat's my natural emotional
response.
You know, when we're talkingfight, flight, freeze, I'm a
fighter.
And so I had a medicine ball,slammed the medicine ball down
while finding this song and itwas actually so weird how the
song was like on an old playlistthat was from that time period
in my life, but I didn'tremember the song at all.
(28:59):
I was like, how did this end upon the playlist?
But it was perfect, it totallyembodied, and I was doing that
to just let the emotion go thathad been trapped the night that
my dad died.
Oh my gosh, let me see if I canfind it on the playlist.
I might have to like send it toyou and have you link to it,
because I've listened to it afew times, but again, like not
the most memorable song, but itwas just like where are these
people who accused me?
(29:19):
And it was just like aboutrising again.
And so I listened to that andI'm slamming the medicine ball
and I just lose it and I'm justsobbing and I'm talking to my
dad and I'm talking to thesepeople who had hurt me in these
experiences I had, and it's justforgiveness and it's love and
it's just letting it go.
And I'm sitting here tellingyou right now.
(29:40):
There's times, if I get too deepinto the details of what
happened in my previous failure,that it'll have a little
emotional.
I think there's still somestuff in there right, especially
now as I'm being brave andputting myself out there fully
again.
But when I talk about the nightmy dad died, which was
extremely traumatic, there's notone single visceral response
Like I'm sad, but my bodydoesn't shake and I don't feel
(30:01):
this like anxiety attack.
I don't feel tension in mystomach and to me that's such a
testament of how powerful wehave to connect the mind to the
body, and that was a hard thingfor me to learn.
I'm sure we all are good atthis right.
We're such good thinkers, we'resuch good planners and we can
just live in our mind palacesand solve world hunger and then,
when it comes time to do it,we're like well, what happened
(30:22):
to her, what happened to themotivated strategic plan that I
had and the person I wanted toshow up as?
And so for me it was like allthe difference from going stuck
in this darkness and this mireinto finally moving into a state
of creation.
And it's not perfect, it'sstill a work in progress, but
how powerful is that?
And if you think about it, itcomes back to that initial
(30:44):
experience I had, where therehas to be an emotional
connection, and that, inherently, is what emotional intelligence
is for me.
You know you can define it invarious ways, but for me it's
like being able to have the bodyon the same page as the mind
and the dreams and the hopes andthe plans that you have, and
not trying to fight it, nottrying to like say I don't have
time for my feelings right now.
(31:04):
I have a plan.
I have a business to build.
I don't have time to feel sad.
I don't have time for myfeelings right now.
I have a plan, I have abusiness to build.
I don't have time to feel sad,I don't have time to be anxious
or worried.
So I think, as women, we do that.
We kind of want to push it down, and there's a very masculine
approach to entrepreneurshipthat we've kind of tried to find
our space in.
So I think it's a reallyimportant missing piece that so
many women are trying tonavigate without having that,
you know, and they're justdriving themselves crazy and
(31:26):
they're not sure, like why am Inot doing what I want to do?
I have all the knowledge.
What is holding me back?
And it's probably that.
Camille (31:35):
Ooh, that is.
I mean, there's so much tounpack there and thank you for
sharing that story.
I feel like there is so much tobe understood about our, our
mind, our body, our emotionalconnection, even with.
I have helped a lot of parents,going through my own experience
with my kids and how they'reprocessing emotions and how,
(31:56):
when kids are anxious or notfeeling well, they'll process
those emotions first in theirstomachs or in their digestion
and they don't even know how toexplain that they're feeling a
certain way or that they'reholding onto a certain emotion.
They just say they, they feelsick you know, and so it's.
I feel like we're becoming moreand more aware of what that
emotional intelligence can looklike and they first show.
(32:19):
I mean, look at how it firstshows signs in our kids, in
their stomachs, because that'swhere emotion can be stored
first is in that stomach or inthat heart space.
And so it makes a lot of sensenow as adults, where maybe when
we were kids it was oh well,you're fine, there's nothing
wrong, like you don't have afever, let's go to school, or
(32:42):
whatever the thing is which,trust me, I'm guilty of.
I'm like, if you don't have afever or you're not throwing up,
you're going to school.
And that was before Iunderstood that I had a child
who needed to walk through andtalk through the emotions that
they were feeling and to helpthem feel safe.
And then, once that wasestablished, they were able to
(33:03):
go to school without feelingthat way.
And it's really interesting too,because now, as adults, with
starting a business or doingthat scary thing, we have to
connect our emotions with thatprocess.
And I love how you saidnavigating it in a masculine
space, because men too,especially, are told not to cry
(33:25):
about things or not to feel acertain way about things and not
to let emotion show.
So what have been as you'vecoached people through this, or
for yourself, what are some goodfirst steps of understanding if
there's something that you'reholding onto that you may need
to work through to get to thelevel that you're going for?
Kirsten (33:43):
A good book I'd recommend is the Body Keeps the
Score.
And I'm not even I'm going toadmit I'm not even done with the
book.
It's, I love it, it's science-y, it's like right down my alley.
Camille (33:53):
And.
Kirsten (33:53):
I also sometimes need a brain break, so it's taking me
longer to get through it.
I mean, we're talking years ofgetting through it because I'm
like, oh, that's interesting.
And then I go on a side tangentand want to learn.
All your body will tell you andI think, when you're getting
into that swirly whirly ofthoughts, pay attention to what
you're also feeling and whereyou're feeling it, because just
(34:14):
the awareness sometimes ispowerful enough to help you
recognize, okay, something'shappening inside of me.
This isn't just a thought.
This thought is causing somefeeling and there's like back in
the nineties there was thisreally great tape series by
Janine Brady, like the brighttapes, and one of the songs is
you think it, you feel it, youdo it.
It's that old think, feel, dopolka.
I loved these songs as a kid,so such a such a vibe, cause I
(34:38):
still remember them, like 30years later.
Um, but I think if you realizethat, like every feeling you
have is originating from athought somewhere, and so even
just that, like capturing andsaying, okay, what am I feeling
right now and what was Ithinking as I started to feel
this way, and getting it down,like taking it out of your brain
and recognizing it so you canlook at it, I think this is
(35:00):
something that women don't doenough, even if it's pull your
phone out, write it down in yournotes app.
It's similar to telling yourparents you had a bad dream and
telling them what it is, andsuddenly now you're laughing
about it instead of it feelingreally scary and like
uncomfortable.
So that's kind of two tips inone, I think.
Just recognize, where am Ifeeling this in the body?
Am I feeling this in the body?
And it may not be in the wayyou think.
It might not be as obvious as,oh, my stomach is like tensing
(35:22):
up.
You might feel cold.
You might notice your eyes arelike going unfocused.
You might feel reallyoverstimulated and like this
tiniest sound is sending youover the edge.
And it's because we all havethis like window of tolerance
where we can handle only acertain amount of stimuli, and
the minute we are shot out ofthat, that's where our fight
flight or freeze comes in, andfreeze is actually the bottom of
(35:43):
the window.
This is where you numb out,where you scroll, where you just
get really tired and you justwant to be still and you might
think like, well, I'm calm, I'mfine, and I think this is the
most deceptive one.
A lot of times we can hang outthere until suddenly it's a
little too much.
And now we're like screamingand crying or freaking out on
our kids or like sabotaging,burning the business down
because we didn't honor what thebody needed to do, and so it's
(36:05):
not that you have to sit thereand go.
I didn't have to go relivetrauma, right.
It's just like okay.
When I think about the thing,this is how I feel Like my
shoulders tense, my stomach getsreally tight, I feel nauseous,
so you can literally respond tothat with the same like symptom
specific.
So if I'm getting a stomachache, like go rub some
peppermint on your stomach orsmell some peppermint, or
(36:26):
consciously bring the tension tothe stomach because it starts
to like release and tell yourbrain oh, we're actually not in
a dangerous situation, causethat's what's happening.
You're moving into this fightor flight or freeze, similarly
to if you saw a bear and there'slike a social media trend
that's been going on, likeunfortunately, I mean, my brain
doesn't know the differencebetween needing to clean my
house and being chased by a bear, even though I know that
(36:47):
consciously my brain doesn't,and so I think that that's like
really in depth and that'ssomething that I coach on to
help you find and identify yourown emotional response.
And actually I have a quiz Ifyour listeners want to take it.
It helps you find your dominantnatural stress response type so
we can link to that in yourshow notes.
But or you can go toquizkirstentyrrelcom, because
(37:09):
sometimes even just theunderstanding of like oh, how do
I naturally show up?
I did a masterclass recentlywith a bunch of women and they
thought they were one, and thenthere were so many that were
totally a different thing.
And the thing about the freezeand there's one called fond too.
They show up when you don'thonor your fight or flight, like
they're secondary, when youwere not able to successfully
move through being able to runit off or get away from an
(37:32):
unsafe situation, or youcouldn't fight back because you
had to be PC, like in my case.
I had to, like, maintainappearances.
I couldn't just full on fight.
It's not that I needed tophysically go fight someone.
I needed to let my body feellike I was honoring my need to
protect myself.
And so had I done someairboxing or screaming it out,
(37:52):
like it wouldn't have stifledthe voice that I had, it
wouldn't have led to me justpushing all of this inside,
where then it comes out right.
That's why the shaking happens,because I'm literally freezing.
I'm freezing when I'm facedwith fear, because I couldn't
honor the fight or the flight.
So isn't that fascinating.
Like they are so intelligent andit's I think that it's like
(38:13):
where you align with that thatyou say my body knows my heart
and my mind.
No, I just need to like bringit all together and be really
purposeful and intentional aboutusing emotions for a positive
thing and not let them run theshow in a negative way.
Camille (38:27):
I love that I actually went.
I was attending an event thatwas being put on by my husband's
law firm and there was a personwho was presenting on anxiety
and emotional intelligence andshe said, even turning around
behind you and assuring yourselfthat there isn't someone or
something chasing you will helpto reduce your tension in your
(38:51):
body.
And I'm like that is crazy.
But it's so primeval or what'sthe right term, it's so
primitive Primitive, thank youwhen our brain really does have
some, where we have to have sometools to just help that
primitive side of ourselvesfigure out that it's safe.
(39:11):
And so I think that that is sointeresting, that those
secondary to fawn or to be fawnor freeze is secondary, because
had you ran or punched it out isso interesting to me.
Kirsten (39:26):
Yeah, and there's a lot .
There's a lot sometimes tounpack, depending on how long
you've like pushed that down.
And the beautiful thing is whenI explained to you the day that
I like slammed the medicineball and I just let out this
whole rage of emotions.
It's not like I had to do it tothat degree all the time.
And we're talking what?
Three to five minutes.
And then I was like I feelbetter than I have felt in a
(39:49):
very long time.
I had a friend DM me because Ishared recently, like I said,
it's been the year mark, so Iwas sharing about my dad and I
was talking about like this verything that I'm sharing with you
, how powerful that is.
To say I had this huge eventand I'm not just you know,
speaking out words.
Like I lived this, like I wentthrough the most devastating day
of my entire life and I can sithere and talk to you guys about
(40:10):
it and I can share the rawemotion and it's not going to
ruin my day, like I'm not justunhinged and I'm not broken
inside.
I have grief.
Grief is so real and it's anemotion and I work with it.
I don't suppress it and say,but when I try, sometimes I try
to say I don't have time to crytoday and then I always pay for
it later, like it has to comeout and I honor that.
But I had a friend DM me and shewas like this makes sense now
(40:31):
why?
Soon after my dad passed away,I was in the basement working
out and I just lost it and criedand she was like and after that
I felt so much better becausethe body needed to let go of
this grief and sometimes theworking out like if she had a
natural fight response and shewas just holding on to anger
over that or feeling like shecouldn't fix it.
She needed to process thatphysically and so it is a huge.
(40:55):
Like I said, it's the missingpiece that I think a lot of us
do not even realize, that we'renot honoring and we're just
driving ourselves nuts trying tothink our way through it.
Camille (41:04):
Absolutely.
And you know, even in momentsof frustration, with moments of
motherhood or being, you know ifyou're, if your kid is having a
hard time emotionallyregulating.
But it is not your job toemotionally regulate them.
It's your job to model behaviorso they can emotionally
regulate themselves.
(41:25):
So as for let's twist it alittle bit for, like the moms
listening, which some of you maybe and some of you may not be,
or let's say, how do you do thatwithin a space where maybe
people around you, even maybepeople you work with, are having
emotional responses?
How do you keep yourself in asafe and like a place where you
(41:47):
are rooted and grounded anddoing your own work, so you're
not reactive?
Kirsten (41:52):
Yeah, and I think, well , you just you answered it even
in the question like you have,you can only be responsible for
yourself, right?
We can't control anyone.
That includes our kids, thatincludes our coworkers, and so I
think this what I tell myhusband, as I've been like
teaching him these concepts,cause I've lived it and he's
seeing enough now that he's like, okay, like, show me your ways,
um, but he'll, he'll talk aboutlike well, I just have
(42:12):
boundaries.
You know, when we talk a lotabout boundaries, I just don't
engage with that person and Isaid is that freedom to you to
have to keep, like puttingboundary walls up so that you're
just?
And I believe me, I'm abeliever in boundaries, I think
they're, they belong there.
I think, though, that there arecertain times when we just need
to understand that true freedomcan come from being able to be
with anyone anywhere, and we areokay, like we can still feel
(42:35):
safe.
And I think a lot of thathappens from the inside out and
not outside in, because youcan't control all the
circumstances.
Like if you've lived any dayson this planet, you know that's
the case.
I couldn't control if my daddied.
I can't control if you know mybusiness fails I mean to an
extent right, but like there'sthings that are just going to
happen outside of your control.
Your kids are going to have baddays, your coworkers are going
to have bad days, and so I thinkit's knowing like what do I
(42:58):
need to stay safe?
How do I stay regulated and howdo I give other people space in
?
In what I coach on too, I talkabout like the power of shifting
your stories, and something sobeautiful about this is if
somebody's coming at you andthey're saying things you've
probably heard this analogy Ifsomebody tells you you have blue
hair and you full fully do nothave blue hair, you don't
believe them.
You're like okay, if they saysomething to you or they attack
(43:20):
you and it brings something up,that's a really strong
indication.
There's something inside ofthat that feels true to you.
I'm not saying it is true, I'msaying it's bringing something
up from the past.
And so what I love about goingthrough this process with people
is when you go through thisshifting and you kind of write
down this whole narrative oflike well, they said this or I
believe this about what theysaid, and you take the time to
(43:43):
go through the swap, like youswap the story.
By the end of that, you eitherhave compassion for the person
you're laughing about it, notlaughing at them, but you're
kind of laughing at the wholesituation that you were even
triggered in the first place.
And it's similar, like I said,you're sharing the bad dream and
suddenly you found this wasjust a story.
This isn't real, this isn'ttrue.
And that's not to say we givepeople a pass to be jerks and to
(44:06):
treat us like crap.
That's where boundaries belong.
But to be unfazed by thatbecause you're taking care of
yourself and you're saying thisis only bothering me because
there's somewhere a storyattached to this.
I'll give you an example.
I have such.
I don't want to use the wordtrauma lightly, but I do.
I have a lot of trauma frompast experiences with people in
authority and so when I recentlyhad a conversation with a
(44:29):
business you know a businessassociate he had to call me
after and was like I feel likesomething, I said something
wrong and I was like, oh my gosh, actually no, it's me, and
there was some technical stuffwe could work through, but it
was mostly.
I was able to be vulnerableenough and say in the past when
I get going on a project and Ifeel like I'm doing well and
somebody comes in and tells methat it's not this or it's not
(44:52):
that or I need to be changedLike in the past, that felt
really unsafe because this iswhat happened and he was like,
oh my gosh, I'm so glad to knowthat.
Like I understand and it wasn'tme saying I was totally
justified in being triggered, itwas me saying this is where I'm
coming from.
I'm owning the fact I clearlystill have some work to do.
I thought I had processed that Istill have a story in there
where I don't feel like I'mheard or I don't feel like I can
(45:14):
exist in my genius zone withoutbeing course corrected and like
how cool is that?
To now engage in everything's alearning experience and
everything is like growth for me, instead of just this terrible
thing that I'm going to go rantabout for hours to my husband
and say how unfair is life andit shifts you from this victim,
constant victim, which, I willbe the first to admit, I think I
lived in for the majority of mylife.
(45:35):
And this happens when you'resurrounded by people who want to
rescue you, like, even if theirintentions are good, parenting
right now too, like rescuingyour kids from hard things, can
really take away your ability tonavigate those things.
And so in many ways, I've hadto retrain my brain to not view
life as happening to me and viewlife as happening for me, and
(45:55):
show up as the creator andengage in these challenging
conversations and differentexperiences.
You know different experienceswith people in a totally
different way, and it changesthe game.
I didn't change the person, Ididn't change all the things
that needed to be happening,like with the business and the
course correction he was giving.
I just changed my perspectiveon it and it made everything
feel so much better.
So, like I know that's a broadanswer answer it's going to
(46:19):
depend on the situation,obviously, but even with my kids
you kind of mentioned, like inour families, I can't force my
kids to regulate their emotions,but I can definitely model that
and that's something I learnedas I went through the coaching,
because I'm seeing them.
I'm like, oh my gosh,everybody's walking around like
a bunch of emotional basketcases.
What can I do?
And my coach was like you justkeep doing it for yourself, you
(46:40):
keep being the example and forme that required.
We had conversations.
I told them, when you hear theslamming sound, mom slamming the
medicine ball and it's becauseI want to get my frustrating
feelings out on the medicineball and not on you, because I
love you and I want to show upfor you.
And I had to create that safetyfor myself so that I didn't
feel like my family was going tolaugh and think I was insane in
(47:00):
here making all the noise.
But then, like now, it didn'ttake long, my daughter will go
slam the medicine ball, my kidwill go run around the house.
It's taken practice andconversation to really set the
tone, for that is how we show upand this is why and we bring
them, like I said, into thehomeschooling to private school
transition.
They were part of theconversation and we aligned both
(47:23):
our vision with their visionand anyway.
So that's kind of going off therails a little bit with the
answer, but I think that's thekey is you can only control.
You Use the tools to help youstay in a regulated space, have
the boundaries where necessary,but to me truly, freedom is
being able to be in anycircumstance and you are Zen.
That is the Buddha right,that's a Buddhist mentality.
Camille (47:46):
Ooh, I love it.
Well, obviously, there's somuch more to unpack here and so
much more that you share online.
Please tell everyone where theycan find you and your resources
Of course so, kirstentyrellcom.
Kirsten (47:57):
I'm on Instagram.
Everything's just my name,Kirsten Tyrrel, of course.
So, kirstentyrrelcom.
I'm on Instagram.
Everything's just my name,Kirsten Tyrrel.
It's K-I-R-S-T-E-N-T-Y-R-R-E-L,and you can find all the things
.
Like I said, you can take thequiz if you want to figure out
like what's my natural emotionalresponse type, and then I will
send you some good resources tohelp you function and thrive in
that way.
And, yeah, come check out allthe things.
I'm making a lot more contentabout this to help you shift
(48:19):
those narratives and have thatfull alignment with the life
that you want to create.
And it's super exciting workand I love helping women do it.
Camille (48:27):
I love it.
This has been amazing.
Thank you so much for being onthe show and sharing your story
and everyone.
Thank you so much for listeningin today.
I appreciate all of thecomments and the DMs.
Please feel free to reach outto me and have these
conversations.
You can find me atcamillewalkerco online and on
Instagram, and also on Instagramat callmeceopodcast.
Have a great one.
(48:48):
We'll see you next time.
Hey CEOs, thank you so much forspending your time with me.
If you found this episodeinspiring or helpful, please let
me know in a comment and afive-star review.
You could have the chance ofbeing a featured review on an
upcoming episode.
Continue the conversation onInstagram at callmeCEOPodcast,
(49:08):
and remember you are the boss.
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