May 27, 2025 • 50 mins
Ever find yourself exhausted from the social media hamster wheel? That constant pressure to post, engage, and hustle—all while wondering if it's actually growing your business? You're not alone.
Meet Stefanie Gass, a podcast coach and seven-figure CEO who discovered a revolutionary path to business growth: abandoning social media entirely. When Stephanie hit rock bottom in her business, she made a courageous decision to follow a prophetic dream and start a podcast. What happened next defied conventional wisdom. She went completely dark on social platforms for two entire years and watched her business explode into multiple six figures solely through her podcast.
The secret? Understanding the fundamental difference between social media consumption and podcast listening. "Social media marketing doesn't work to grow your business because it's a five-second dopamine hit," Stephanie explains. "People aren't in the posture of learning." Contrast this with podcasting, where listeners deliberately choose to give you 15-30 minutes of their attention while driving, exercising, or completing tasks.
Throughout our conversation, Stefanie breaks down her exact framework for podcast success—from defining your "micro-micro niche" to crafting monetization strategies that match your audience size. Whether you're just starting out or looking to pivot your existing business model, she offers practical pricing benchmarks and validation techniques to build confidence. Most importantly, she shows how podcasting offers mothers the rare opportunity to build substantial businesses without sacrificing family time or falling prey to the constant content documentation trap.
Ready to reclaim your time while creating more impact and income? Stefanie's approach proves there's a better way than the social media hustle. Tune in to discover how long-form content could transform your business just like it did for her thousands of successful students. And if you're inspired to start your own podcast journey, grab Stefanie's free 5-day bootcamp using code CAMILLE at Stefaniegass.com/bootcamp.
Resources:
Get Stef's bootcamp for free: https://stefaniegass.com/camille
Stef’s website: https://stefaniegass.com/
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Sign up for free here: DISCOVER YOUR WHY
The Mom Balance Playbook (Freebie for Managing the Mayhem)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Stefanie (00:00):
It's what is the one solution for people and it's
something you want to create andown because that gets you the
biggest profit margin for theleast amount of your time.
And my favorite highly, highly,highly scalable.
Camille (00:22):
So you want to make an impact.
You're thinking about startinga business, sharing your voice.
How do women do it that handlemotherhood, family and still
chase after those dreams?
We'll listen each week as wedive into the stories of women
who know this is Call Me CEO.
Welcome back everyone to CallMe CEO.
(00:46):
This is the place to come, wherewe celebrate mothers building
businesses, and one thing that Ihear from many women that I
coach and I'm helping throughthe last few years is that a lot
of us are tired.
We are tired of social media.
We want a different way.
We're looking at the time thatwe have and the return that we
(01:07):
have for what we're doing, whatwe're sharing and what we're
giving online, and sometimes, alot of times, social media isn't
giving us the return that wehope to find, and so today we're
going to talk about podcasting.
It is a new I would saynewer-ish thing that people are
starting to lean into as thenext big thing where there can
(01:28):
be a sense of well, what do Ihave to say?
Is what I have to say worth it?
Is anyone going to tune in?
How do I even make moneypodcasting?
So we have an expert today.
I'm so thrilled that StephanieGass has agreed to join us
because she is a podcast coach,a boy mom and a seven-figure CEO
.
She helps women to grow theironline business, particularly
(01:52):
with podcasting, and she is thehost of a top 20 globally ranked
business podcast called OnlineBusiness for Christian Women.
She believes it is possible topartner with God to create
income and impact withoutsacrificing your family, faith
or buying into social mediahustle, and just reading that, I
, like, want to take a deepbreath and say thank you.
(02:14):
Isn't that what we all want?
So, stephanie, thank you somuch for being on the show today
.
Stefanie (02:19):
Hi, I'm so excited to be here.
I can't wait to have thisconversation.
Camille (02:24):
Yeah, me too.
You know it's interestingbecause I feel like this has
been a topic that's come up morethan once where people are
asking me okay, you'repodcasting, but how do you make
money podcasting?
How do I know if that'ssomething that I'm even worthy
of?
It feels like this big mountainthat needs to be conquered, so
(02:44):
I would love to hear if that's aquestion you get asked a lot.
I would imagine that it is, butbefore we dive into all that,
yummy goodness, please tell ouraudience a little bit more about
you, your family, where you arecoming from and how you got
into this field.
Stefanie (02:59):
Sure, so I'm a boy mom , like you already mentioned,
but I have two little boys.
We live in a of a wannabe farm.
I have four hens, one of themrecently died.
So I'm a chicken mom, rip to myfavorite chicken who got eaten
by a coyote.
So therefore, you see, likewe're kind of like live in the
country life, but more so aswannabes, um, in New Mexico we
(03:22):
have four seasons, like you do,camille, and my favorite thing,
my favorite drink, is coffee.
So there's all the fun factsabout me.
As far as what I do, I have beena full-time entrepreneur for 17
years, which is so wild.
I've been in everything.
I was in network marketing toget started.
I really I have a whole storyand I can tell as much or little
(03:45):
as you want me to of that, butbasically did it the world's way
, totally idolizing success andmoney and working and striving
and just constant obsession withthe next rank to the point of
burnout.
Business basically crumbled andhad to borrow money from my
kiddos savings account to paythe mortgage one month because,
um, when you build somethingovernight, it will quickly leave
(04:07):
you and at that point, for me,my faith is, as you read in the
intro, a big piece of who I am,and so for me, it was kind of
this um breakdown moment Somepeople call it like the bathroom
floor moment where you're justat the rock bottom, Like my
whole identity had been in thatbusiness.
I knew I was still called toentrepreneurship, called to
(04:29):
leadership, but I felt like atotal failure, and so I rebuilt
everything about my life, fullysurrendered to God, and that
this moment happened.
It was in 2016.
And I really started to, pieceby piece, rebuild my life in
partnership with my faith, andso what that ultimately led to
(04:53):
was understanding like I don'thave to build a business the way
that everybody says.
I don't have to spend four tofive hours a day on social media
anymore, because there's got tobe a different way that God is
leading me, because I'm alsocalled to be a present mom, I'm
also called to be healthy in mybody.
At the time, I was being calledto get sober, and that was a
whole journey I had to go on,and so there were all these
different things happening in mylife that I could no longer
(05:15):
control, and so, over the courseof the next three years, I was
on this spiritual journey alongwith this, you know, physical
journey of rebuilding my healthmyself and restarting a business
.
So now, today, to kind of fastforward through that messy
middle which I had to go throughand I think a lot of us do who
are in business, have to gothrough a point of surrender and
(05:37):
figure out, like, whyeverything is so hard and start
asking these deeper questionsabout why we're doing the things
that we're doing.
And so went through all of thatand I had a prophetic dream in
2018, start a podcast.
And I had been praying like Idon't understand I'm supposed to
build a new thing, like, ifit's not social media, where is
it Cause?
I had been feeling so likeaddicted to social media.
(06:00):
I felt like I was capitalizingon my kids.
I was on there four to fivehours a day and I was barely
scraping any any clients.
And I heard this in my dreamstart a podcast.
And this was in 2017.
I didn't listen to shows,anything.
I felt totally unqualified forit.
Like you said, it felt fancy.
But I was obedient to the dreamand I woke up and I plugged in
(06:21):
this staticky mic had a weirdpodcast name that I went with,
made my own art it was so uglyand started speaking and, lo and
behold, one year into thatpodcasting journey, I laid down
social media.
For two years, completely,completely dead to the world.
I didn't exist and my podcastgrew from zero to a multi-six
(06:45):
figure business within that 18month, 24 month period of time
that I was off social media andI was able to really get clear
on who I wanted to be as abusiness owner and the type of
business I wanted to create.
And it was proof that there wasa different way for women just
like me to create businessesthat were highly profitable in
(07:09):
way less time.
So that's what I started doingwith all my heart, energy and
soul, and that's what I do stilltoday.
And I now have a top 20 podcastand I've taught thousands of
women how to grow six figureplus businesses using podcasting
instead of social media, and itliterally feels like a dream.
Camille (07:27):
Wow, that really is the dream, I mean, I think, where
you were able to really turn itto God and ask that question and
be so willing to pick up and go.
That is, I feel like that issomething we all want to hear.
You know where it's like.
What is that thing?
What is that thing In thatmoment when you were going from
(07:49):
starting this new venture I mean2017, that was pretty early in
the game to have that a nod, todo that, and do you feel like
for people who are starting now,because it is much more
saturated, what would be theskillset or the things that you
would need to know that you wishyou knew then, being so
(08:10):
unfamiliar?
Stefanie (08:11):
Sure.
So I first want to preface thisby saying everything is
saturated.
So if you, you guys have topick your hard, what is your
thing going to be?
And the biggest mistake I seemost of my students make is they
try to show up in all theplaces, particularly short form.
So they're showing up on social, they're showing up in stories,
(08:32):
maybe reels, maybe YouTubeshorts, because they think that
short form is what gets a result, because there's gratification
in it, and what I mean by thatis there's a like.
You can see the likes, you cansee the views and so you feel
like you're being validated inyour efforts and it's going to
grow your business.
And people don't like podcastingnecessarily, or don't think
(08:54):
they should, because there's novalidation.
In podcasting, you don't seeviews, nothing goes viral Like
you're just here talking to thismicrophone and praying that
somebody across the world likemagically finds you and listens
and has a heart transformation.
So what happens is a lot ofpeople start podcasts, which is
why it may seem saturated or alot more busy than of a space
(09:15):
than it used to.
But the truth and this truth iscrazy Less than 1% of people
who podcast ever make it past 10episodes.
I've heard that.
I've heard that.
I've heard that and the reasonis is it doesn't feel good.
It's not a feel good contentmethod, it's a money making
content method.
So if you can push through andI tell my students, give me 12
(09:37):
months Like, if you can justwith me strategically build this
podcast out where it becomes alead generator and a conversion
tool, you're going to surpassall the people around you
dropping like flies because itdoesn't feel good.
And we, as business owners, wehave this belief that building
this business has to be sovalidating and I'm like, where
(09:58):
does that come from?
Like, building a business ishard work.
It's like I'm going to getbehind the mic and I'm going to
speak my heart and soul andteach you day after day after
day for seven years and now Ihave a seven figure business.
Like this is not anything that'sovernight success is literally
could be gone just as fast.
So we want to build somethingthat's so sustainable.
(10:21):
So when you guys are thinkingabout back to Camille's question
, like was podcasting toosaturated?
Maybe, but what else isn'tsaturated?
Like pick your thing, and I Ihighly encourage it to be a long
form method which we can getmore into that has no shelf life
, because some of my topdownloaded episodes are from
five years ago and thoseepisodes are still making sales
(10:42):
every single week, every singleday.
Camille (10:44):
Wow, okay, I think that that could be especially so.
I've been podcasting now forover four years and I was
talking with a mentor of mineand she said do not start a
podcast until you understand aplan for how you want to
monetize eventually.
And I thought that was reallygood advice because she said if
you do not, eventually you'llresent it, because podcasting is
(11:08):
really interesting and I think,in terms of where I have been
in the influencer world for manyyears, it is more visible for
people to see your stats, knowexactly what's happening, or
assume that they do where apodcast it's a little more close
to the chest where people canjust look and see.
(11:29):
So, as far as monetizing, I'mcurious what your advice is for
people if they have their ownproduct first or if they try I
mean going for sponsorships outof the gate.
That's not going to happenbecause you only have to, like,
you have to be in the top 0.5 tobe, like, eligible for that
sort of thing.
So I'm curious what kind offunnels you you suggest that
(11:52):
people do or what is the gameplan in general.
Stefanie (11:56):
So I, you know, respectfully disagree with.
That's okay, because for me,what I teach my students is if
you can start with the podcast.
Now to her point, like you doneed to have, I teach it's
called the micro, micro niche.
So we are going segment of amarket identifier inside the
(12:18):
market and a who like we aredialing really down deep.
Like, for example, I'm notgoing to bless someone's podcast
that says I'm going to have theencourage life mom show and I'm
like what is that?
What are you even talking about?
I'm going to press in with thatLife Mom Show and I'm like what
is that?
What are you even talking about?
I'm going to press in with thatstudent to say what about mom
life?
Are we talking about timemanagement for working moms?
Are we talking about connectingwith your kids, with patient
(12:41):
parenting for kids under five?
Like we're going to drill itreally down.
So we are going to have a plan,but it's not a plan for profit,
it's a plan for positioning.
It's a plan for like, what issomeone searching for when they
come to the Apple podcast app orthe Spotify app or wherever,
and they type in like macros,macros for beginners,
(13:03):
relationship coaching,communication, coaching with my
husband what is the thingthey're actively searching for.
We want to position yourpodcast with a very clear plan,
because your podcast actually isyour lead generating tool and
nobody ever thinks that.
They think social media is thetool and all these other places
(13:23):
I show up will drive traffic tothe podcast, and that's what's
going to happen.
But what's what I've proven tobe true?
If we correctly label thepodcast, we title it something
clear, we have your keywords andyour SEO set up.
We do all these thingsstrategically.
Your podcast actually generatestraffic on its own and because
(13:44):
it's close to heart, close tothe chest.
Like you say, people don't needa year of following Camille as
an influencer.
They need one 15 minute episodewhere they're like oh my gosh,
I know her.
How the heck do I work withCamille?
So that's where that next,those next steps, will come in,
which are monetization, whichI'm happy to walk through now.
Do you have?
Camille (14:03):
any questions on the first part?
Okay, no, I think that makes alot of sense.
I mean, it's the riches are inthe niches.
I've even considered changingthe name of my podcast many
times, yeah.
I'm here for you when you'reready.
I love it.
No, that's awesome.
So tell us, yeah, let's go alittle bit more into the
monetization.
Stefanie (14:33):
So good.
So you mentioned sponsorships.
That is totally a way that.
That's the typical way peoplethink of making money from a
podcast, you know.
But the reality is it ispennies on the download and so
unless we're Joe Rogan, you know, it's like going to make 50
bucks here and there.
Like, honestly, it's usuallynot worth it.
So what I teach my students todo is how can you have an offer
that's highly desired by theideal listener of your podcast?
You know so.
For example, Camille, let's saythat you have a podcast
specifically about how to workfrom home as a virtual assistant
(14:55):
and you have this podcast andpeople are listening to you.
Tell them like it is possibleto literally work from home and
be a virtual assistant and makereally great money doing that,
and you monetize it.
My three favorite ways areeither one-on-one coaching.
If your audience is reallysmall, that's a great way that
you guys can make fast income,get market research fully,
deeply understand who you'reserving.
(15:17):
My second thing that I movethem to is an e-course, like a
fully passive course or a groupcoaching program, and the reason
these are my three favorite isyou have such a specific
solution for people.
I see so many people say, I needa tiny offer and a high ticket
offer and 13 freebies, and I'mlike you don't confuse your
(15:37):
audience so far and beyond, Likethey don't actually know what
to buy from you and so they justleft because you're so
confusing.
So we want, okay, great.
Well, I have the work from homevirtual assistant method and
it's a six month course and it'scost you know, nine, 97 or
whatever.
We have all that strategy thatthat I talk about, but it's what
is the one solution for peopleand it's something you want to
(16:00):
create and own, because thatgets you the biggest profit
margin for the least amount ofyour time.
And, my favorite, highly, highly, highly scalable, Because if
you run a group coaching program, for example, instead of doing
a membership group at $37 amonth and you have to constantly
(16:20):
come up with new content,people are falling out of the
membership as fast as you putthem in.
You've sold a six monthcontainer to people where you
can teach one person and you canteach 1000 people at the same
time.
So I'm always looking for howdo I position myself in front of
the most people with my podcast, get their trust as quickly as
(16:42):
I can because my podcast reallydesigned specifically for them
and move them into my offer.
That is a scalable model that Iown.
So that's kind of my favoriteway to monetize.
And there's a bunch of ways,but those are the three that I
teach.
Camille (16:56):
Yeah, ooh, I love it.
And I'm curious as far ashosting a course, just because
this is always a big questionwho do you like to use for
hosting your resources?
Stefanie (17:06):
Yeah.
So I've tried all the thingsthat were super fancy and all
the money in the world and Iended up coming back to my
favorite checkout system.
You've heard of thrive cart.
They have a course hosting nowand it's just included with your
one-time fee.
So I'm like I migrated all mycourses there like two years ago
(17:27):
and it's absolutely fabulous.
So that's what I have everyonedo, because if we can save money
and not have a monthly expenselike an email that keeps growing
and growing, growing and likewe just pay for something one
time and we're done with it,that's my favorite.
So we use Thrivecart.
It's called and learn L-E-A-R-Nis the integration with
Thrivecart.
(17:48):
That is the course piece andit's.
It's wonderful.
Camille (17:51):
Okay, and what about your emailing?
Is that?
Does Thrivecart have that?
Stefanie (17:54):
as well.
Camille (17:55):
I wish emailing, emailing.
Stefanie (17:57):
I've signed contracts and blood cause I'm like, too,
built out over there to evermove.
Yeah, so they're all prettysimilar.
We use get response but convertkit.
You know you guys can honestlyget away with flow desk and save
money perfectly fine, soemail's less important, I would
say.
As far as who you, who you setup with, then something that
(18:17):
you're going to get like, if youcan start with the right course
building software, it saves youso much time in the future
because migration is prettyawful.
Camille (18:26):
Yes, I'm right in the middle of that going oh, I love
Stan store right now.
It's so user-friendly and ithas a lot of the tools that
Kajabi has.
It has hosting it for you know,you can do payment plans,
affiliate, all these things, butI'm like gosh, moving it over.
Do I want to do that?
It's so much to bite off whichI mean?
(18:47):
Listen, we're going to haveupgrades with tech all the time.
I think it's really moreimportant about choosing one and
getting started, getting somegood advice like you are here
and then getting into it.
So I would love to hear whenyou're thinking about why do you
think social media is dead?
And then how we can take thepodcast approach Like let's say
(19:11):
that we go super, super niche,and then how long is the buildup
before you're offering theseproducts?
Do you build the product first?
Do you build the audience first?
What's your order for that?
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tasks that actually grow yourbusiness?
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(19:34):
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(19:56):
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Stefanie (20:13):
Yeah, so I'll answer backwards and then I'll go to
the social media piece.
So the podcast we first buildthe podcast because if we are
not bringing in like qualifiedniche in leads, we have no one
to sell to anyway.
So I have my students start withget the podcast in the world
like to the best of your ability.
Know that we're going to tweakit, refine it, optimize it with
with more data, like I've had myshow out now for almost seven
(20:36):
years and we've gone throughthree rebrands, so it's not like
a big deal.
Let's get this in the world andreally start practicing with
being really really clear andlike letting that become a
refinement.
Then, once that's done and likeI am consistent with my content
long form I'm consistent withmy long form on the show I do
want I recommend one episode aweek, minimum two is preferable.
(20:58):
And if you, I always tell mystudents, like, just get off of
social and do two a week andyou'll grow faster, which I'll
tell you why in a minute.
So then, um, after that'shappening, we move to creating
the offer or refining the offer.
The worst thing is to wait andbuild an offer that you've not
validated.
We don't know.
Does anybody even want thisoffer?
Can I give it away?
(21:19):
Can I beta this offer?
Does anybody even like it?
Does it sell?
Once we then have those piecesof information clear, we can
scale something, but if we don'thave a following of people who
trust us.
No one's going to buy it anyway, and then we wasted our time.
So we start the podcast, thenwe work on building what the
offer is, and I always havepeople start with coaching
(21:40):
because it helps them validatewhat their course will be Like.
What do we call it?
What are people saying?
You're basically getting paidto do market research.
So that is definitely happensfor people for a short while,
and some of them love coachingand want to keep doing it.
But it's a great way to makefaster income when your audience
is smaller.
So that's the order of opsthere.
Now related to social media.
(22:01):
So you know, I lived this out.
I was fully sold out.
Like social media is the wayI'm going to grow my coaching
business.
This was back in like 2014,2015.
And that even back then, likeit did work better than it works
today, but I was still spendingfour to five hours a day.
Like I was making the stories.
I hired this big company andthey were helping me.
Like you need to go and connectwith this person and like this
(22:22):
thing.
And then we're going to postthese things in these groups and
like liking people's stuff onInstagram and retagging back the
tag shares and the back shares.
I don't even remember.
And I had mistakenly grown to40,000 followers and I had, you
know, a thousand likes per postand like there was hundreds of
people in the stories and it wasgreat and like all this stuff
(22:44):
looked to be working.
You know it's like, oh, I'mgrowing, this feels so good,
this feels so good, but like,why then am I getting one client
a month?
Like, why then, is this notconverting?
And it's literally every wakingminute of my life, like I
cannot have a second with mykids and enjoy it without
thinking I should grab it.
(23:04):
I should grab the footagebecause it's going to resonate
with somebody.
And I started to feel like, um,I had this veil over my face
all the time, like the contentveil, like oh, my gosh, look how
cute my you know kid isswinging.
I should get my phone.
And it just started to feel sounethical in my heart, like what
?
And for me it was.
(23:24):
I think the kids were a pieceof it, but it was even anything
that I would do in my life andit wasn't yielding a result.
It would have been different ifit's like wow, clients are
coming in left and right andlike this is making so much
sense.
There's such a return on mytime, but there was zero return
on my time.
So, as for me, remember withthe whole, with my breakdown
piece, I'm like, lord, what am Inot doing Well, am I not doing
(23:47):
right?
What am I not doing well, am Inot doing right?
And it was actually my churchthat started this whole thing.
There was a fast that happenedand it was like well, I'll fast
from Instagram for 30 days,cause that did feel like such an
addiction in my life and, um, Iended up deleting it from my
phone.
I think I had one person on myteam at the time and I said
don't post anything Like, I'mjust going to do a quick fast
(24:09):
from Instagram.
Well, I told my following aboutit on the podcast because I had
just started the show, and Isaid I'm going to see what
happens in 30 days with nosocial media.
So I go on this fast.
And with the first week wasawful, like I wanted to touch my
phone.
I kept grabbing my phone and atthis point, camille, I had
already been deleting thesocials from my phone every
(24:32):
weekend for three years, cause Ihad already felt this
conviction, but I was so scaredto rip the bandaid off, that I
would let me delete everythingfor a weekend, and then I'd feel
so peaceful and good and I'dput it right back on Monday
morning and start again, likeit's like any addiction like you
lay an addiction down for asecond but you pick it back up,
you're right where you were, andso that had been happening and
(24:55):
I could see the fruit of nosocial.
But I wasn't trusting thatthere was another way.
So in this 30 days, the craziestthing happened.
I had all this time.
I literally got back four hoursa day because I wasn't posting
anything and I'm like okay, Ihad all these downloads of like
better content for the podcast.
I started doing another episodea week.
I started emailing my listconsistently.
(25:17):
I started figuring out how tomarket my podcast on Pinterest.
I used this time to getstrategic about my show and in
30 days the podcast grew.
The email list doubled.
I think I booked like fiveclients that month and I was
going I'm not going to get backon social Like, I'm just going
to keep going.
I'm going to keep the testgoing.
(25:37):
I told them six months.
Well, stayed off for six moremonths.
I hit six figures without asocial media presence at all.
I hadn't touched it, I didnothing.
It's like I had died.
Everyone's like where is sheCause?
I used to post every single dayand stories like five times a
day, and so they came to thepodcast to find where I was
(25:59):
heard about this thing and theywere like what, she's not on
social.
So, anyway, I stayed off for twowhole years and, um, everything
exploded.
Literally everything exploded.
I got.
I learned so much.
I got my time back.
Exploded Literally everythingexploded, I got.
I learned so much.
I got my time back.
And for me, what it was was alesson that we do not have to
keep doing the things that otherpeople are doing if there's no
(26:19):
data behind it.
So if you look in inventory,all the things you're doing in
your business, what has no fruit, stop doing it.
Why do we keep doing the thingsthat have no fruit, no money,
no conversion.
What a waste of time.
And we tell ourselves we haveto and it's, it's not the case
at all.
Um, so that's kind of how thatwent down.
Camille (26:40):
That's amazing.
So when you did do the fast andyou're taking a break and
you're now niching down in more,was that where you were helping
other people to podcast to, orwhat was the more?
Was that where you were helpingother people to podcast to, or
what was the message or thecoaching that you were shifting
to?
Stefanie (26:54):
Sure.
So at that time, in the verybeginning, it was called clarity
coaching and I was helpingwomen figure out what their
business would be.
And then I went from $80 anhour to $800 an hour in 24
months because the demand wasinsane and I would air them on
the podcast and people would belike I want one of those calls
and like it was crazy and sotalk about like I struggled to
(27:16):
get one client a month on social, yet I couldn't even yield feel
the inbox responses from thepodcast and I forgot to say why
social media marketing is dead,the reason I want to just really
quick on that social mediamarketing doesn't work to grow
your business or convert peoplebecause it's a 90 second
dopamine hit.
I'm actually miss, I misspeak.
(27:38):
It's a five second dopamine hit.
It's your 90 seconds, it'stheir five seconds, right?
You go in, you spend all thistime creating something and you
guys have heard this.
You know this is true becausewe live it.
We literally live it.
You go to your phone and we'renot going to our phone to learn
and to usually like digest 30minutes of training.
We're going to our phone forthe dopamine hit.
Any visual stimulation is goingto be a dopamine hit.
(27:59):
So we go to our phone, we headto the Instagram, we head to the
Tik TOK, we head to thewhatever's cool Now click, like
often, like it's dopamine,dopamine, dopamine.
And so people aren't in theposture of being like, oh my
gosh, I love that.
Like maybe 0.001% of people arelike I'm here to learn
something and actually go growwhatever.
It is the thing I want to doright now.
And so the difference is isthat with podcasting, those
(28:25):
people are coming to solve aproblem People who listen to
podcasts.
Demographically they are higherearners, they have discretionary
income, they invest inthemselves, they are people,
creatures of habit.
They like to work out andlisten to a podcast of dropping
their kids off.
Listening to a podcast, they'remaking dinner, doing laundry,
and so they're already the righttype of person who's going to
make a change in their life.
And because it's audible,learning there is no dopamine
(28:49):
hit.
So they're actually here forthe content.
They're actually here to giveyou their full attention for 10,
15, 20 minutes.
Like how many of you guys arestill listening to Camille and I
right now?
Like if you were on your phonewatching a story of us, you may
have already clicked off itwithin the first 30 seconds, and
so that is why social mediamarketing is dead.
Our brains cannot handle reallyintentional focus on a visual
(29:13):
platform anymore, and becausesocial media is against you,
it's only going to be up for 24hours.
Less than 1% of people see it,and most of us can't afford to
pay to play when you're gettingstarted, and so, while that's a
great strategy, later, whenyou're making seven figures or
whatever, I think when we'rethinking about growing a
business, if we can better spendour time on the long form
(29:34):
content that never dies, whywould we not be focused on that?
Camille (29:39):
Oh amen.
I feel like this is very inline with blogging, which I've
been doing since 2011.
And also that SEO piece, whereanything we put on social media
is not searchable.
Maybe someone could searchkeywords within your name that's
, on your Instagram or TikTokbut the actual content is not
(30:01):
something that people are goingto search and then find
relatively as long as they would.
With long form like podcasting,blogging and other forms like
email that you actually own,that you can keep connecting
with these people.
So I totally, I totally agreewith you on that.
I would love to hear a fewexamples of people that you've
(30:22):
helped create niche approachesto podcasting and how they've
been able to monetize.
Stefanie (30:29):
Sure.
So I had this client way backwhen when I got started, and she
won this 15 minute coachingcall with me and I remember
chatting with her on the phoneback in the day, funny enough.
And she's like you know, I liketo organize stuff in homes and
I organize these things.
I'm just such organizer and Icome up with all these systems
(30:50):
for people and I was like, ohyeah, cool, like it's systemize
your life, and I just it's likeI would have these downloads of
what people's thing was, and Iwas able to articulate back to
them because people fumblearound right Like I'm good at
this and this and I like thisand this, and it's like listen,
this is your thing.
And she's like system is yourlife.
No one would ever listen tothat or do anything with that.
Well, today she's a top fivepodcast in the parenting
(31:13):
category, over 3 milliondownloads, multi-mill, almost a
seven figure company, and shehas obviously built the
different systemize your lifeprogram.
So she first had systemize yourlife, which was a home
management system, and then shemigrated into business and it's
now systemized to scale, whichteaches people how to manage
their home and business so theycan actually scale.
(31:35):
And that's one example of goingfrom like literally nothing.
She had less than 200 peoplefollowing her on Instagram.
She thought she had to usesocial.
She tried blogging.
That wasn't really working forher and I said stop everything,
start this podcast, go all in.
She had a slow grow too, becausepodcasting isn't a feel good,
it's not an overnight Her wholefirst year I think she had
(31:57):
10,000 downloads, which was likewhich is great, but she wasn't
seeing exponential growth by anymeans.
She was like I'm just going tokeep going.
You keep telling me this isgoing to work, like I'll keep
going highly coachable.
So I'll speak to that Like whenyou're coachable and you don't
get distracted, you're going tohave a lot more success than
somebody who's constantlychasing the new and shiny Cause.
All you do is start over andthen you start over again.
(32:19):
So she locked into that and shereally saw it through.
By her second year she was amulti-six figure company from
the podcast never dollar on ads,nothing like all from her show.
Camille (32:30):
Wow.
Stefanie (32:31):
And was that?
Camille (32:31):
through selling her own course, or was that okay?
Yep.
Stefanie (32:34):
We built the course that matched what the people
wanted on the podcast.
One offer, one thing, one offer.
Guys Like, if you want to takesomething to the bank from this
conversation, get clear on whatyour micro, micro niches.
One long form usuallypodcasting for people who you
know.
Video is okay, but it's so muchmore expensive and it's still a
video platform it's hard tohold attention.
(32:55):
Blogging is okay, too, but it'sa much slower grow.
I've been blogging as well sincelike 2012.
And it's like too, but it's amuch slower grow.
I've been blogging as wellsince like 2012.
And it's like we're now seeingtraction.
So podcasting is a much easierthing for most people to start
because it's from behind a mic.
So, anyway, yeah, and then shesold that course that matched
what her people wanted.
And I have hundreds of exampleslike that from people who've
done.
(33:15):
You know.
I have people someone whostarted a podcast on infidelity
and like repairing brokenmarriage.
I have someone who does thegrief mentor podcast with Teresa
Davis and she's now makingthousands of dollars every month
with her offer.
And the offers are usuallyalways one of the three things I
said coaching course or groupcoaching because those are the
(33:35):
highest profit margin productthat you can own.
Camille (33:39):
And I'm curious about price point Cause I feel like
that's a thing I get asked abouta lot is what if I create a
course?
How much should it be?
And and a lot of times peopleget nervous about charging for a
course.
What would be your opinionabout that?
Stefanie (33:53):
Sure.
So if you are really a newbieand I'm talking like you have, I
call them super fans.
They're the people who are onyour email list opening your
emails.
You know in your Facebook grouplike they're your people, your
core people.
If there's less than 250 ofthose, I highly recommend
sticking with coaching becauseyou still don't really know.
You're getting to know yourpeople, you're getting to know
(34:14):
yourself, your business, and soyou stick with coaching.
And we have people start fromlike $67 to 97 for coaching,
like an hour, and then you,every time you book up for three
months in a row, you doubleyour prices.
So that's how I got from 80 to800 so fast.
It was like 80.
Then I went 160.
Then I went like almost 400.
Then I went 800.
(34:35):
So like you're doubling andscaling as your demand grows,
because we want to continue toscale, but with a one-on-one
method you have to take lessclients.
So that's the coaching.
Once you pass that, like 300super fans, like people who are
really, really in it with youand you've done some coaching,
start looking at what yourcourse will be.
And I have people price thatcourse out between 297 and 497.
(35:00):
And the reason for that isthey're still kind of beta, like
we're just launching our firstcourse, we're seeing if it sells
.
We want to validate the offer.
I don't want them to createthis high ticket thing when we
don't even know if it's thething yet.
Like, everything in business isa test, everything in business.
So we test it.
Does it sell, is it highlydesired?
(35:22):
And then we optimize.
And as we optimize over time wecan raise prices accordingly.
And so it starts there and Ialways recommend a payment plan
so you don't need to be afraidof charging because there's a
payment plan.
So people can do that as well.
Anything under $297, peopledon't show up for it, so they're
(35:43):
not going to take your course,and you don't want to sell
things to people that aren'tgoing to take the course.
So that's that.
If you have like over 2000super fans, I start pushing my
students a bit more to thehigher ticket group coaching.
So we'll look at like a 997 ora 1997 six-month group coaching
(36:03):
program and beyond.
Once we start getting thebigger followings and more super
fans, we can scale with thatand create something that might
be a bit more robust yeah, oh,that's good advice.
Camille (36:14):
I love how you've come up with benchmarks, because
those are similar numbers that Iam familiar with and I've seen
people do.
Those are similar numbers thatI am familiar with and I've seen
people do.
But to say, if you have thistype of fan base and or this,
this, a type of authoritybecause I feel like that piece
comes into play too is do youhave the accreditation, are you
a doctor, are you a specialist?
Do you have you know that thatalso can play a part, and a lot
(36:38):
of times it's confidence andwhat you, what your mindset is
around it, especially withcoaching, I see, because it's
the wild west a bit with that,where it's there's not this
benchmark of like, okay, onceyou hit this, then that's what
you can charge.
Stefanie (36:54):
So that's really I like how you set that out.
Yeah, and to that confidencepiece, you know it's not really
what you say, it's how you sayit.
It's so much of how you say itlike what you, how you position
everything does matter, like thepodcast title and the
experience that people get andthe SEO those things do matter.
But when it comes down toconversion and actually making a
sale, it's about how youconfidently connect with someone
(37:18):
.
If they believe that you cansolve their problem, they will
buy.
So if you guys can practicethat and I tell my students I'm
like, just act as if for that 30seconds, like really embody the
most confident, brave versionof yourself, elevate your voice
a little bit, like reallycommand attention, because it's
(37:39):
about the feeling that yourbuyer gets in, or that's what
creates the buying posture oflike I'm actually going to go
stop what I'm doing right nowand check out for this thing
that I've been wanting for awhile.
It's your authority when yousell.
Camille (37:55):
Yeah, I agree with that , especially when it's audio, of
course, because then if theycan sense that within the
intonation of your voice, howconfidently you're saying the
thing, and I'm curious with asfar as building that list or
making that offer, how oftenwould you suggest that people
are pushing or selling ratherthan the value piece, or do you
(38:17):
always have that call to actionfor the thing you're selling?
What's your advice with that?
Stefanie (38:21):
So I always sell, and I think that that is a must
because people are so distractedEven our podcast people, which
are some of the more focusedpeople left on the planet
they're still doing somethingelse while they're listening to
you, and so I sell every singleepisode.
But I don't do it in a creepyway.
It's always an invitation andit's always varied.
(38:43):
So one time I might talk abouta student success story.
This time over here I mighttalk about the results.
This time over here I mighttalk about the pain points that
they're going through.
This time over here I mightjust hard sell it.
And so I'm constantly playingwith the different methods of
selling, because one persondoesn't make a buying decision
the same as someone else andthere's so many different ways
(39:05):
that people decide to buy.
Like some people are emotionalbuyers, some people are sale
buyers, some people are painpoint buyers, and so I do that
all the time.
But it needs to be varied andreally authentic, and it's never
pushy, ever, once in a while.
It's pushy because Cause it'slike I'm going to get in their
face and say, like you've beenpraying for this answer and
you've not taken action, likewhat's going on?
(39:26):
I will call that out sometimes,but more often than not it's
like I'll be here when you'reready, like take it or leave it,
and I think that postureactually gets people to buy
because they're going oh my gosh, I'm left behind, like Steph's
going without me, with thepeople that are with her, like I
should go, I should go.
And so I think if we stop beingweird about selling and just
recognize, like you have thething that someone is
(39:49):
desperately praying for, so stopholding back on it, like they
can choose to say yes or no, andthe podcast episode is the
value, so they can skip me,don't care, you know, go ahead,
skip it.
The value.
So they can skip me, don't care, you know, go ahead, skip it.
The value is here for you 850episodes later, but I'm going to
tell you how you're going to goget that solution.
Camille (40:10):
It's by working with me unapologetically every single
time.
I love that.
I agree with that too.
That sense of confidence and Ithink for me that's something
that I have a weakness in is Ido.
I'm so used to the, I think,the blogger mindset of like,
value, value, value, value, oh,and I need to sell to you now.
So sometimes I get hold backwith that, and I think that that
(40:36):
is generally more what peopledo in my experience that it so
to have that confidence of likeno, every time I'm going to
remind you I can help you.
That's really important and I'mcurious what do you think about
?
A new thing I see creeping upis like a secret podcast or a
private podcast, where it's likea series or people are doing
like a problem and then saying,oh, I have this secret podcast
series, but you have to besubscribed.
(40:57):
What is your opinion about that?
Stefanie (41:00):
I think that those are fine if you want them to be a
conversion tool.
But the first order of businessis like I need a podcast and I
need to blow it up, because thepodcast is the way that people
are going to come into thefunnel and the way that people
are going to trust you.
If later like, okay, I'mhitting you know a couple
hundred thousand downloads, I'mgrowing my super fan number, I'm
hitting a couple hundredthousand downloads, I'm growing
(41:21):
my super fan number, I'm makingsales and now I wanna build
something that helps convert tothis offer that I know sells.
Sure, you can make the like.
Let's say that you have themacro methods course and you
have the macros for beginnerspodcast.
You can say I have this secretpodcast.
It'll take you through sevendays of perfecting your macros,
but the reason someone goes tothe secret podcast is to go
(41:44):
through the seven days to getsold the macros course.
So, like there's a method tothe madness we don't create more
things to create more things.
We want a podcast thatgenerates leads and offer that's
hard selling.
And now we figure out themiddle.
That's the last step.
How do I make more conversionsof the thing that's already
selling organically straightfrom the podcast?
Camille (42:05):
So question about the middle what is your opinion on
podcast length and also having aguest, versus being the solo
person who's talking all of thetime, because I know that my
solo episodes are very wellreceived, but most of my
episodes are interview based,because that's a big piece of
how I'm doing networking andcoaching, with lining people up
(42:29):
with what I offer, with virtualassistants as an example.
So what is your opinion on thedifferent avenues in that regard
?
Stefanie (42:38):
So, usually people's sweet spot for a podcast
listening is less than 20minutes, so I typically
encourage my students to be lessthan 20 minutes for interviews.
Typically, I tell them to tryto keep it under 35 minutes
Cause there's a lot of you know,I hate to say fluff, but like
storytelling and things that canhappen in interviews which some
(42:59):
people are obsessed with andthat's the model.
And like, as long as yourdownload numbers support, people
like these episodes as much asthey like 15 minutes with
Camille.
Keep doing it.
But pay attention to thoseanalytics.
Maybe you know oh, wow, I'mgetting half the listens when I
have an episode with someoneelse.
Let me try shortening it byhalf the length.
Does it pick back up?
(43:19):
Is it the length?
That that's the problem?
So I'm always looking at myanalytics to see what do they
want, what do they not want andthen making sure it's fun for
you.
Some people hate doinginterviews.
Have a solo show.
Some people, like I, only wantto have interviews.
I hate talking about myself.
I have an interview podcast.
You can do whatever you want todo.
As long as it's niched all theway down to your person and what
(43:40):
they actually need from you,you will be okay, but that's so.
There's that, and I think justpay attention to what your
audience is liking and kind offollow their lead and know that,
like you can also just dowhatever you want.
You enjoy doing something andit brings you joy as a podcaster
.
Let that be a once in a whilething for you, if your audience
(44:01):
isn't loving it, yeah.
Camille (44:03):
Ooh, I love it.
Okay, so to wrap this up, forpeople who are listening and
saying I want to start a podcast, I feel like this is what I
need to do.
What are the top three thingsthat they should do to get
started?
And then also, of course, howwould they connect with you?
Stefanie (44:19):
Yes, so good.
So the top three things youshould do if you want to start a
podcast, number one would beget clear on your micro, micro
niche.
So what are you going topodcast about?
What's the segment of themarket, what's the little
identifier in there and who isit for?
Do that deep work?
Um, the second thing you want todo is probably take a course to
(44:40):
teach you how to do it rightthe first time, because I think
when we go to YouTube Universityor whatnot, it's just, it's one
puzzle, piece of an entirepuzzle, and that really leads
people astray.
I've seen so many people buy amini course on email marketing
and then a mini course on makinga course, and then and now we
have 14 different expertstelling you to do 14 things a
different way, and we end upwith a mess.
(45:01):
And so see if you can't findthe right person for you
Obviously, I'm an option ifthat's something you're looking
for and then you start, youpress launch, because the only
way for your podcast to becomehighly successful is if you
start and then you optimize.
If we have no data, we can'trefine.
So if we sit in perfectionismand we sit in fear and we never
(45:23):
start, then the podcast willnever grow.
So those are what you do and Ido have so and where do you
connect with me?
The podcast is a great place tocome and learn.
It's online business forChristian women.
Anywhere you listen to shows.
I also have a five-day bootcampthat you can come and watch at
(45:45):
stephaniegasscom slash bootcamp,and we're going to give Camille
a code.
So if you guys type in Camilleat checkout, we'll give that to
you for free.
So stephaniegasscom slashbootcamp code Camille
C-A-M-I-L-L-E, you guys can takethat If you want to learn.
How the heck do I podcast, howdoes it make money and go
through like a whole five dayexperience with me?
There's your gift and I hopethat that blesses you.
Camille (46:06):
Oh, I love that, and I think that the optimized piece
is where a lot of people couldget stuck, and is that something
that with making or workingthrough the weeds of that?
What would be your suggestionwith the optimization of it?
Stefanie (46:21):
Yes, so that's what I talk about a lot in the bootcamp
, so you guys will learn allabout that.
I have an entire one of thewhole days of the training is
about SEO keywords why we titlethe show the way that we do.
So that bootcamp will reallyhelp you guys get some clarity
on that, cause it's a wholeprocess, like my students go
through the optimization piecefor two weeks in my group
coaching program because there'sa lot to it.
(46:44):
So, you guys can come to that.
You know, free five day withthe code Camille and kind of
deep dive in there and that willhelp you get a little bit more
clarity on that, okay awesome.
Camille (46:54):
Well, one question that I ask all of our guests is what
are you reading, watching orlistening to and a motherhood
moment that you would like toshare?
Stefanie (47:04):
Ooh, let's see.
Well, I just finished readingSacred Marriage for the second
time and if you guys have notread that book and you are
married, please, for the love ofall things, go read it.
It is such a blessing to yourmarriage.
And then, before that, I'mtrying to think.
I think I was working throughBob Goff's latest devotional, oh
the whimsy one whimsy by BobGoff, so that was.
(47:26):
That's a really good one.
I'm a big fan of all his books.
Motherhood moment Well, my kidsrecently went and we recently
got them their own Bibles.
For like real Bibles for thefirst time, not like the kiddie
ones that were secondhandbecause they're going to break
them, but like they got to picka real one and to watch their
tenderness so they're eight and11, like putting the tabs on the
(47:49):
pages we bought them, thechapter tabs.
Like watching them put the tabswith the tenderness and the
care I'm.
Like watching them learn how tofind the wisdom and scripture
that we're leading them to.
It's been such a joy of myheart, uh, to see their interest
in a relationship with God wecultivated at such a young age
and to see like, um, you know,it's never too young to start
(48:13):
leading your kids into a truerelationship and letting them
explore what that means for them, and so that's been a really
beautiful week or so sincethey've gotten those Bibles to
watch that kind of come alivefor them.
Camille (48:24):
I love that.
Oh well, this has been sowonderful.
Stephanie, thank you so muchfor being on the show today and,
of course, if you areinterested, we'll make sure to
link all of the links below sothat you can get in touch with
her, and we will make sure thatyou get those answers that you
need.
So, thank you so much for beingon the show today.
(48:44):
Thanks so much, all right, andwe'll see you all next time.
Thank you all for tuning intotoday's episode and, in true
form, of letting you know that Ihave something to offer.
I am helping align busyentrepreneurs with virtual
assistants who have taken mycourse 60 days to VA, and, if
(49:06):
you are wanting to take a breakfrom social media, take a load
off with your emails, youradministrative tasks, whatever
that might be.
I have had so much fulfillmentgiving people the ability, the
systems and the answers that youneed to bring in team members
and give you some of your timeback.
So if that is something thatyou would like to hear more
(49:27):
about, please reach out to me atcallmeceopodcast, at gmailcom,
or you can reach out to me byInstagram at camillewalkerco or
callmeceopodcastcom, atcamillewalkerco or
callmeceopodcastcom.
Hey, ceos, thank you so muchfor spending your time with me.
(49:49):
If you found this episodeinspiring or helpful, please let
me know in a comment.
In a five-star review, youcould have the chance of being a
featured review on an upcomingepisode.
Continue the conversation onInstagram at callmeCEOPodcast,
and remember you are the boss.
It's what is the one solution for people and it's
something you want to create andown because that gets you the
biggest profit margin for theleast amount of your time.
And my favorite highly, highly,highly scalable.
Camille (00:22):
So you want to make an impact.
You're thinking about startinga business, sharing your voice.
How do women do it that handlemotherhood, family and still
chase after those dreams?
We'll listen each week as wedive into the stories of women
who know this is Call Me CEO.
Welcome back everyone to CallMe CEO.
(00:46):
This is the place to come, wherewe celebrate mothers building
businesses, and one thing that Ihear from many women that I
coach and I'm helping throughthe last few years is that a lot
of us are tired.
We are tired of social media.
We want a different way.
We're looking at the time thatwe have and the return that we
(01:07):
have for what we're doing, whatwe're sharing and what we're
giving online, and sometimes, alot of times, social media isn't
giving us the return that wehope to find, and so today we're
going to talk about podcasting.
It is a new I would saynewer-ish thing that people are
starting to lean into as thenext big thing where there can
(01:28):
be a sense of well, what do Ihave to say?
Is what I have to say worth it?
Is anyone going to tune in?
How do I even make moneypodcasting?
So we have an expert today.
I'm so thrilled that StephanieGass has agreed to join us
because she is a podcast coach,a boy mom and a seven-figure CEO
.
She helps women to grow theironline business, particularly
(01:52):
with podcasting, and she is thehost of a top 20 globally ranked
business podcast called OnlineBusiness for Christian Women.
She believes it is possible topartner with God to create
income and impact withoutsacrificing your family, faith
or buying into social mediahustle, and just reading that, I
, like, want to take a deepbreath and say thank you.
(02:14):
Isn't that what we all want?
So, stephanie, thank you somuch for being on the show today
.
Stefanie (02:19):
Hi, I'm so excited to be here.
I can't wait to have thisconversation.
Camille (02:24):
Yeah, me too.
You know it's interestingbecause I feel like this has
been a topic that's come up morethan once where people are
asking me okay, you'repodcasting, but how do you make
money podcasting?
How do I know if that'ssomething that I'm even worthy
of?
It feels like this big mountainthat needs to be conquered, so
(02:44):
I would love to hear if that's aquestion you get asked a lot.
I would imagine that it is, butbefore we dive into all that,
yummy goodness, please tell ouraudience a little bit more about
you, your family, where you arecoming from and how you got
into this field.
Stefanie (02:59):
Sure, so I'm a boy mom , like you already mentioned,
but I have two little boys.
We live in a of a wannabe farm.
I have four hens, one of themrecently died.
So I'm a chicken mom, rip to myfavorite chicken who got eaten
by a coyote.
So therefore, you see, likewe're kind of like live in the
country life, but more so aswannabes, um, in New Mexico we
(03:22):
have four seasons, like you do,camille, and my favorite thing,
my favorite drink, is coffee.
So there's all the fun factsabout me.
As far as what I do, I have beena full-time entrepreneur for 17
years, which is so wild.
I've been in everything.
I was in network marketing toget started.
I really I have a whole storyand I can tell as much or little
(03:45):
as you want me to of that, butbasically did it the world's way
, totally idolizing success andmoney and working and striving
and just constant obsession withthe next rank to the point of
burnout.
Business basically crumbled andhad to borrow money from my
kiddos savings account to paythe mortgage one month because,
um, when you build somethingovernight, it will quickly leave
(04:07):
you and at that point, for me,my faith is, as you read in the
intro, a big piece of who I am,and so for me, it was kind of
this um breakdown moment Somepeople call it like the bathroom
floor moment where you're justat the rock bottom, Like my
whole identity had been in thatbusiness.
I knew I was still called toentrepreneurship, called to
(04:29):
leadership, but I felt like atotal failure, and so I rebuilt
everything about my life, fullysurrendered to God, and that
this moment happened.
It was in 2016.
And I really started to, pieceby piece, rebuild my life in
partnership with my faith, andso what that ultimately led to
(04:53):
was understanding like I don'thave to build a business the way
that everybody says.
I don't have to spend four tofive hours a day on social media
anymore, because there's got tobe a different way that God is
leading me, because I'm alsocalled to be a present mom, I'm
also called to be healthy in mybody.
At the time, I was being calledto get sober, and that was a
whole journey I had to go on,and so there were all these
different things happening in mylife that I could no longer
(05:15):
control, and so, over the courseof the next three years, I was
on this spiritual journey alongwith this, you know, physical
journey of rebuilding my healthmyself and restarting a business
.
So now, today, to kind of fastforward through that messy
middle which I had to go throughand I think a lot of us do who
are in business, have to gothrough a point of surrender and
(05:37):
figure out, like, whyeverything is so hard and start
asking these deeper questionsabout why we're doing the things
that we're doing.
And so went through all of thatand I had a prophetic dream in
2018, start a podcast.
And I had been praying like Idon't understand I'm supposed to
build a new thing, like, ifit's not social media, where is
it Cause?
I had been feeling so likeaddicted to social media.
(06:00):
I felt like I was capitalizingon my kids.
I was on there four to fivehours a day and I was barely
scraping any any clients.
And I heard this in my dreamstart a podcast.
And this was in 2017.
I didn't listen to shows,anything.
I felt totally unqualified forit.
Like you said, it felt fancy.
But I was obedient to the dreamand I woke up and I plugged in
(06:21):
this staticky mic had a weirdpodcast name that I went with,
made my own art it was so uglyand started speaking and, lo and
behold, one year into thatpodcasting journey, I laid down
social media.
For two years, completely,completely dead to the world.
I didn't exist and my podcastgrew from zero to a multi-six
(06:45):
figure business within that 18month, 24 month period of time
that I was off social media andI was able to really get clear
on who I wanted to be as abusiness owner and the type of
business I wanted to create.
And it was proof that there wasa different way for women just
like me to create businessesthat were highly profitable in
(07:09):
way less time.
So that's what I started doingwith all my heart, energy and
soul, and that's what I do stilltoday.
And I now have a top 20 podcastand I've taught thousands of
women how to grow six figureplus businesses using podcasting
instead of social media, and itliterally feels like a dream.
Camille (07:27):
Wow, that really is the dream, I mean, I think, where
you were able to really turn itto God and ask that question and
be so willing to pick up and go.
That is, I feel like that issomething we all want to hear.
You know where it's like.
What is that thing?
What is that thing In thatmoment when you were going from
(07:49):
starting this new venture I mean2017, that was pretty early in
the game to have that a nod, todo that, and do you feel like
for people who are starting now,because it is much more
saturated, what would be theskillset or the things that you
would need to know that you wishyou knew then, being so
(08:10):
unfamiliar?
Stefanie (08:11):
Sure.
So I first want to preface thisby saying everything is
saturated.
So if you, you guys have topick your hard, what is your
thing going to be?
And the biggest mistake I seemost of my students make is they
try to show up in all theplaces, particularly short form.
So they're showing up on social, they're showing up in stories,
(08:32):
maybe reels, maybe YouTubeshorts, because they think that
short form is what gets a result, because there's gratification
in it, and what I mean by thatis there's a like.
You can see the likes, you cansee the views and so you feel
like you're being validated inyour efforts and it's going to
grow your business.
And people don't like podcastingnecessarily, or don't think
(08:54):
they should, because there's novalidation.
In podcasting, you don't seeviews, nothing goes viral Like
you're just here talking to thismicrophone and praying that
somebody across the world likemagically finds you and listens
and has a heart transformation.
So what happens is a lot ofpeople start podcasts, which is
why it may seem saturated or alot more busy than of a space
(09:15):
than it used to.
But the truth and this truth iscrazy Less than 1% of people
who podcast ever make it past 10episodes.
I've heard that.
I've heard that.
I've heard that and the reasonis is it doesn't feel good.
It's not a feel good contentmethod, it's a money making
content method.
So if you can push through andI tell my students, give me 12
(09:37):
months Like, if you can justwith me strategically build this
podcast out where it becomes alead generator and a conversion
tool, you're going to surpassall the people around you
dropping like flies because itdoesn't feel good.
And we, as business owners, wehave this belief that building
this business has to be sovalidating and I'm like, where
(09:58):
does that come from?
Like, building a business ishard work.
It's like I'm going to getbehind the mic and I'm going to
speak my heart and soul andteach you day after day after
day for seven years and now Ihave a seven figure business.
Like this is not anything that'sovernight success is literally
could be gone just as fast.
So we want to build somethingthat's so sustainable.
(10:21):
So when you guys are thinkingabout back to Camille's question
, like was podcasting toosaturated?
Maybe, but what else isn'tsaturated?
Like pick your thing, and I Ihighly encourage it to be a long
form method which we can getmore into that has no shelf life
, because some of my topdownloaded episodes are from
five years ago and thoseepisodes are still making sales
(10:42):
every single week, every singleday.
Camille (10:44):
Wow, okay, I think that that could be especially so.
I've been podcasting now forover four years and I was
talking with a mentor of mineand she said do not start a
podcast until you understand aplan for how you want to
monetize eventually.
And I thought that was reallygood advice because she said if
you do not, eventually you'llresent it, because podcasting is
(11:08):
really interesting and I think,in terms of where I have been
in the influencer world for manyyears, it is more visible for
people to see your stats, knowexactly what's happening, or
assume that they do where apodcast it's a little more close
to the chest where people canjust look and see.
(11:29):
So, as far as monetizing, I'mcurious what your advice is for
people if they have their ownproduct first or if they try I
mean going for sponsorships outof the gate.
That's not going to happenbecause you only have to, like,
you have to be in the top 0.5 tobe, like, eligible for that
sort of thing.
So I'm curious what kind offunnels you you suggest that
(11:52):
people do or what is the gameplan in general.
Stefanie (11:56):
So I, you know, respectfully disagree with.
That's okay, because for me,what I teach my students is if
you can start with the podcast.
Now to her point, like you doneed to have, I teach it's
called the micro, micro niche.
So we are going segment of amarket identifier inside the
(12:18):
market and a who like we aredialing really down deep.
Like, for example, I'm notgoing to bless someone's podcast
that says I'm going to have theencourage life mom show and I'm
like what is that?
What are you even talking about?
I'm going to press in with thatLife Mom Show and I'm like what
is that?
What are you even talking about?
I'm going to press in with thatstudent to say what about mom
life?
Are we talking about timemanagement for working moms?
Are we talking about connectingwith your kids, with patient
(12:41):
parenting for kids under five?
Like we're going to drill itreally down.
So we are going to have a plan,but it's not a plan for profit,
it's a plan for positioning.
It's a plan for like, what issomeone searching for when they
come to the Apple podcast app orthe Spotify app or wherever,
and they type in like macros,macros for beginners,
(13:03):
relationship coaching,communication, coaching with my
husband what is the thingthey're actively searching for.
We want to position yourpodcast with a very clear plan,
because your podcast actually isyour lead generating tool and
nobody ever thinks that.
They think social media is thetool and all these other places
(13:23):
I show up will drive traffic tothe podcast, and that's what's
going to happen.
But what's what I've proven tobe true?
If we correctly label thepodcast, we title it something
clear, we have your keywords andyour SEO set up.
We do all these thingsstrategically.
Your podcast actually generatestraffic on its own and because
(13:44):
it's close to heart, close tothe chest.
Like you say, people don't needa year of following Camille as
an influencer.
They need one 15 minute episodewhere they're like oh my gosh,
I know her.
How the heck do I work withCamille?
So that's where that next,those next steps, will come in,
which are monetization, whichI'm happy to walk through now.
Do you have?
Camille (14:03):
any questions on the first part?
Okay, no, I think that makes alot of sense.
I mean, it's the riches are inthe niches.
I've even considered changingthe name of my podcast many
times, yeah.
I'm here for you when you'reready.
I love it.
No, that's awesome.
So tell us, yeah, let's go alittle bit more into the
monetization.
Stefanie (14:33):
So good.
So you mentioned sponsorships.
That is totally a way that.
That's the typical way peoplethink of making money from a
podcast, you know.
But the reality is it ispennies on the download and so
unless we're Joe Rogan, you know, it's like going to make 50
bucks here and there.
Like, honestly, it's usuallynot worth it.
So what I teach my students todo is how can you have an offer
that's highly desired by theideal listener of your podcast?
You know so.
For example, Camille, let's saythat you have a podcast
specifically about how to workfrom home as a virtual assistant
(14:55):
and you have this podcast andpeople are listening to you.
Tell them like it is possibleto literally work from home and
be a virtual assistant and makereally great money doing that,
and you monetize it.
My three favorite ways areeither one-on-one coaching.
If your audience is reallysmall, that's a great way that
you guys can make fast income,get market research fully,
deeply understand who you'reserving.
(15:17):
My second thing that I movethem to is an e-course, like a
fully passive course or a groupcoaching program, and the reason
these are my three favorite isyou have such a specific
solution for people.
I see so many people say, I needa tiny offer and a high ticket
offer and 13 freebies, and I'mlike you don't confuse your
(15:37):
audience so far and beyond, Likethey don't actually know what
to buy from you and so they justleft because you're so
confusing.
So we want, okay, great.
Well, I have the work from homevirtual assistant method and
it's a six month course and it'scost you know, nine, 97 or
whatever.
We have all that strategy thatthat I talk about, but it's what
is the one solution for peopleand it's something you want to
(16:00):
create and own, because thatgets you the biggest profit
margin for the least amount ofyour time.
And, my favorite, highly, highly, highly scalable, Because if
you run a group coaching program, for example, instead of doing
a membership group at $37 amonth and you have to constantly
(16:20):
come up with new content,people are falling out of the
membership as fast as you putthem in.
You've sold a six monthcontainer to people where you
can teach one person and you canteach 1000 people at the same
time.
So I'm always looking for howdo I position myself in front of
the most people with my podcast, get their trust as quickly as
(16:42):
I can because my podcast reallydesigned specifically for them
and move them into my offer.
That is a scalable model that Iown.
So that's kind of my favoriteway to monetize.
And there's a bunch of ways,but those are the three that I
teach.
Camille (16:56):
Yeah, ooh, I love it.
And I'm curious as far ashosting a course, just because
this is always a big questionwho do you like to use for
hosting your resources?
Stefanie (17:06):
Yeah.
So I've tried all the thingsthat were super fancy and all
the money in the world and Iended up coming back to my
favorite checkout system.
You've heard of thrive cart.
They have a course hosting nowand it's just included with your
one-time fee.
So I'm like I migrated all mycourses there like two years ago
(17:27):
and it's absolutely fabulous.
So that's what I have everyonedo, because if we can save money
and not have a monthly expenselike an email that keeps growing
and growing, growing and likewe just pay for something one
time and we're done with it,that's my favorite.
So we use Thrivecart.
It's called and learn L-E-A-R-Nis the integration with
Thrivecart.
(17:48):
That is the course piece andit's.
It's wonderful.
Camille (17:51):
Okay, and what about your emailing?
Is that?
Does Thrivecart have that?
Stefanie (17:54):
as well.
Camille (17:55):
I wish emailing, emailing.
Stefanie (17:57):
I've signed contracts and blood cause I'm like, too,
built out over there to evermove.
Yeah, so they're all prettysimilar.
We use get response but convertkit.
You know you guys can honestlyget away with flow desk and save
money perfectly fine, soemail's less important, I would
say.
As far as who you, who you setup with, then something that
(18:17):
you're going to get like, if youcan start with the right course
building software, it saves youso much time in the future
because migration is prettyawful.
Camille (18:26):
Yes, I'm right in the middle of that going oh, I love
Stan store right now.
It's so user-friendly and ithas a lot of the tools that
Kajabi has.
It has hosting it for you know,you can do payment plans,
affiliate, all these things, butI'm like gosh, moving it over.
Do I want to do that?
It's so much to bite off whichI mean?
(18:47):
Listen, we're going to haveupgrades with tech all the time.
I think it's really moreimportant about choosing one and
getting started, getting somegood advice like you are here
and then getting into it.
So I would love to hear whenyou're thinking about why do you
think social media is dead?
And then how we can take thepodcast approach Like let's say
(19:11):
that we go super, super niche,and then how long is the buildup
before you're offering theseproducts?
Do you build the product first?
Do you build the audience first?
What's your order for that?
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Stefanie (20:13):
Yeah, so I'll answer backwards and then I'll go to
the social media piece.
So the podcast we first buildthe podcast because if we are
not bringing in like qualifiedniche in leads, we have no one
to sell to anyway.
So I have my students start withget the podcast in the world
like to the best of your ability.
Know that we're going to tweakit, refine it, optimize it with
with more data, like I've had myshow out now for almost seven
(20:36):
years and we've gone throughthree rebrands, so it's not like
a big deal.
Let's get this in the world andreally start practicing with
being really really clear andlike letting that become a
refinement.
Then, once that's done and likeI am consistent with my content
long form I'm consistent withmy long form on the show I do
want I recommend one episode aweek, minimum two is preferable.
(20:58):
And if you, I always tell mystudents, like, just get off of
social and do two a week andyou'll grow faster, which I'll
tell you why in a minute.
So then, um, after that'shappening, we move to creating
the offer or refining the offer.
The worst thing is to wait andbuild an offer that you've not
validated.
We don't know.
Does anybody even want thisoffer?
Can I give it away?
(21:19):
Can I beta this offer?
Does anybody even like it?
Does it sell?
Once we then have those piecesof information clear, we can
scale something, but if we don'thave a following of people who
trust us.
No one's going to buy it anyway, and then we wasted our time.
So we start the podcast, thenwe work on building what the
offer is, and I always havepeople start with coaching
(21:40):
because it helps them validatewhat their course will be Like.
What do we call it?
What are people saying?
You're basically getting paidto do market research.
So that is definitely happensfor people for a short while,
and some of them love coachingand want to keep doing it.
But it's a great way to makefaster income when your audience
is smaller.
So that's the order of opsthere.
Now related to social media.
(22:01):
So you know, I lived this out.
I was fully sold out.
Like social media is the wayI'm going to grow my coaching
business.
This was back in like 2014,2015.
And that even back then, likeit did work better than it works
today, but I was still spendingfour to five hours a day.
Like I was making the stories.
I hired this big company andthey were helping me.
Like you need to go and connectwith this person and like this
(22:22):
thing.
And then we're going to postthese things in these groups and
like liking people's stuff onInstagram and retagging back the
tag shares and the back shares.
I don't even remember.
And I had mistakenly grown to40,000 followers and I had, you
know, a thousand likes per postand like there was hundreds of
people in the stories and it wasgreat and like all this stuff
(22:44):
looked to be working.
You know it's like, oh, I'mgrowing, this feels so good,
this feels so good, but like,why then am I getting one client
a month?
Like, why then, is this notconverting?
And it's literally every wakingminute of my life, like I
cannot have a second with mykids and enjoy it without
thinking I should grab it.
(23:04):
I should grab the footagebecause it's going to resonate
with somebody.
And I started to feel like, um,I had this veil over my face
all the time, like the contentveil, like oh, my gosh, look how
cute my you know kid isswinging.
I should get my phone.
And it just started to feel sounethical in my heart, like what
?
And for me it was.
(23:24):
I think the kids were a pieceof it, but it was even anything
that I would do in my life andit wasn't yielding a result.
It would have been different ifit's like wow, clients are
coming in left and right andlike this is making so much
sense.
There's such a return on mytime, but there was zero return
on my time.
So, as for me, remember withthe whole, with my breakdown
piece, I'm like, lord, what am Inot doing Well, am I not doing
(23:47):
right?
What am I not doing well, am Inot doing right?
And it was actually my churchthat started this whole thing.
There was a fast that happenedand it was like well, I'll fast
from Instagram for 30 days,cause that did feel like such an
addiction in my life and, um, Iended up deleting it from my
phone.
I think I had one person on myteam at the time and I said
don't post anything Like, I'mjust going to do a quick fast
(24:09):
from Instagram.
Well, I told my following aboutit on the podcast because I had
just started the show, and Isaid I'm going to see what
happens in 30 days with nosocial media.
So I go on this fast.
And with the first week wasawful, like I wanted to touch my
phone.
I kept grabbing my phone and atthis point, camille, I had
already been deleting thesocials from my phone every
(24:32):
weekend for three years, cause Ihad already felt this
conviction, but I was so scaredto rip the bandaid off, that I
would let me delete everythingfor a weekend, and then I'd feel
so peaceful and good and I'dput it right back on Monday
morning and start again, likeit's like any addiction like you
lay an addiction down for asecond but you pick it back up,
you're right where you were, andso that had been happening and
(24:55):
I could see the fruit of nosocial.
But I wasn't trusting thatthere was another way.
So in this 30 days, the craziestthing happened.
I had all this time.
I literally got back four hoursa day because I wasn't posting
anything and I'm like okay, Ihad all these downloads of like
better content for the podcast.
I started doing another episodea week.
I started emailing my listconsistently.
(25:17):
I started figuring out how tomarket my podcast on Pinterest.
I used this time to getstrategic about my show and in
30 days the podcast grew.
The email list doubled.
I think I booked like fiveclients that month and I was
going I'm not going to get backon social Like, I'm just going
to keep going.
I'm going to keep the testgoing.
(25:37):
I told them six months.
Well, stayed off for six moremonths.
I hit six figures without asocial media presence at all.
I hadn't touched it, I didnothing.
It's like I had died.
Everyone's like where is sheCause?
I used to post every single dayand stories like five times a
day, and so they came to thepodcast to find where I was
(25:59):
heard about this thing and theywere like what, she's not on
social.
So, anyway, I stayed off for twowhole years and, um, everything
exploded.
Literally everything exploded.
I got.
I learned so much.
I got my time back.
Exploded Literally everythingexploded, I got.
I learned so much.
I got my time back.
And for me, what it was was alesson that we do not have to
keep doing the things that otherpeople are doing if there's no
(26:19):
data behind it.
So if you look in inventory,all the things you're doing in
your business, what has no fruit, stop doing it.
Why do we keep doing the thingsthat have no fruit, no money,
no conversion.
What a waste of time.
And we tell ourselves we haveto and it's, it's not the case
at all.
Um, so that's kind of how thatwent down.
Camille (26:40):
That's amazing.
So when you did do the fast andyou're taking a break and
you're now niching down in more,was that where you were helping
other people to podcast to, orwhat was the more?
Was that where you were helpingother people to podcast to, or
what was the message or thecoaching that you were shifting
to?
Stefanie (26:54):
Sure.
So at that time, in the verybeginning, it was called clarity
coaching and I was helpingwomen figure out what their
business would be.
And then I went from $80 anhour to $800 an hour in 24
months because the demand wasinsane and I would air them on
the podcast and people would belike I want one of those calls
and like it was crazy and sotalk about like I struggled to
(27:16):
get one client a month on social, yet I couldn't even yield feel
the inbox responses from thepodcast and I forgot to say why
social media marketing is dead,the reason I want to just really
quick on that social mediamarketing doesn't work to grow
your business or convert peoplebecause it's a 90 second
dopamine hit.
I'm actually miss, I misspeak.
(27:38):
It's a five second dopamine hit.
It's your 90 seconds, it'stheir five seconds, right?
You go in, you spend all thistime creating something and you
guys have heard this.
You know this is true becausewe live it.
We literally live it.
You go to your phone and we'renot going to our phone to learn
and to usually like digest 30minutes of training.
We're going to our phone forthe dopamine hit.
Any visual stimulation is goingto be a dopamine hit.
(27:59):
So we go to our phone, we headto the Instagram, we head to the
Tik TOK, we head to thewhatever's cool Now click, like
often, like it's dopamine,dopamine, dopamine.
And so people aren't in theposture of being like, oh my
gosh, I love that.
Like maybe 0.001% of people arelike I'm here to learn
something and actually go growwhatever.
It is the thing I want to doright now.
And so the difference is isthat with podcasting, those
(28:25):
people are coming to solve aproblem People who listen to
podcasts.
Demographically they are higherearners, they have discretionary
income, they invest inthemselves, they are people,
creatures of habit.
They like to work out andlisten to a podcast of dropping
their kids off.
Listening to a podcast, they'remaking dinner, doing laundry,
and so they're already the righttype of person who's going to
make a change in their life.
And because it's audible,learning there is no dopamine
(28:49):
hit.
So they're actually here forthe content.
They're actually here to giveyou their full attention for 10,
15, 20 minutes.
Like how many of you guys arestill listening to Camille and I
right now?
Like if you were on your phonewatching a story of us, you may
have already clicked off itwithin the first 30 seconds, and
so that is why social mediamarketing is dead.
Our brains cannot handle reallyintentional focus on a visual
(29:13):
platform anymore, and becausesocial media is against you,
it's only going to be up for 24hours.
Less than 1% of people see it,and most of us can't afford to
pay to play when you're gettingstarted, and so, while that's a
great strategy, later, whenyou're making seven figures or
whatever, I think when we'rethinking about growing a
business, if we can better spendour time on the long form
(29:34):
content that never dies, whywould we not be focused on that?
Camille (29:39):
Oh amen.
I feel like this is very inline with blogging, which I've
been doing since 2011.
And also that SEO piece, whereanything we put on social media
is not searchable.
Maybe someone could searchkeywords within your name that's
, on your Instagram or TikTokbut the actual content is not
(30:01):
something that people are goingto search and then find
relatively as long as they would.
With long form like podcasting,blogging and other forms like
email that you actually own,that you can keep connecting
with these people.
So I totally, I totally agreewith you on that.
I would love to hear a fewexamples of people that you've
(30:22):
helped create niche approachesto podcasting and how they've
been able to monetize.
Stefanie (30:29):
Sure.
So I had this client way backwhen when I got started, and she
won this 15 minute coachingcall with me and I remember
chatting with her on the phoneback in the day, funny enough.
And she's like you know, I liketo organize stuff in homes and
I organize these things.
I'm just such organizer and Icome up with all these systems
(30:50):
for people and I was like, ohyeah, cool, like it's systemize
your life, and I just it's likeI would have these downloads of
what people's thing was, and Iwas able to articulate back to
them because people fumblearound right Like I'm good at
this and this and I like thisand this, and it's like listen,
this is your thing.
And she's like system is yourlife.
No one would ever listen tothat or do anything with that.
Well, today she's a top fivepodcast in the parenting
(31:13):
category, over 3 milliondownloads, multi-mill, almost a
seven figure company, and shehas obviously built the
different systemize your lifeprogram.
So she first had systemize yourlife, which was a home
management system, and then shemigrated into business and it's
now systemized to scale, whichteaches people how to manage
their home and business so theycan actually scale.
(31:35):
And that's one example of goingfrom like literally nothing.
She had less than 200 peoplefollowing her on Instagram.
She thought she had to usesocial.
She tried blogging.
That wasn't really working forher and I said stop everything,
start this podcast, go all in.
She had a slow grow too, becausepodcasting isn't a feel good,
it's not an overnight Her wholefirst year I think she had
(31:57):
10,000 downloads, which was likewhich is great, but she wasn't
seeing exponential growth by anymeans.
She was like I'm just going tokeep going.
You keep telling me this isgoing to work, like I'll keep
going highly coachable.
So I'll speak to that Like whenyou're coachable and you don't
get distracted, you're going tohave a lot more success than
somebody who's constantlychasing the new and shiny Cause.
All you do is start over andthen you start over again.
(32:19):
So she locked into that and shereally saw it through.
By her second year she was amulti-six figure company from
the podcast never dollar on ads,nothing like all from her show.
Camille (32:30):
Wow.
Stefanie (32:31):
And was that?
Camille (32:31):
through selling her own course, or was that okay?
Yep.
Stefanie (32:34):
We built the course that matched what the people
wanted on the podcast.
One offer, one thing, one offer.
Guys Like, if you want to takesomething to the bank from this
conversation, get clear on whatyour micro, micro niches.
One long form usuallypodcasting for people who you
know.
Video is okay, but it's so muchmore expensive and it's still a
video platform it's hard tohold attention.
(32:55):
Blogging is okay, too, but it'sa much slower grow.
I've been blogging as well sincelike 2012.
And it's like too, but it's amuch slower grow.
I've been blogging as wellsince like 2012.
And it's like we're now seeingtraction.
So podcasting is a much easierthing for most people to start
because it's from behind a mic.
So, anyway, yeah, and then shesold that course that matched
what her people wanted.
And I have hundreds of exampleslike that from people who've
done.
(33:15):
You know.
I have people someone whostarted a podcast on infidelity
and like repairing brokenmarriage.
I have someone who does thegrief mentor podcast with Teresa
Davis and she's now makingthousands of dollars every month
with her offer.
And the offers are usuallyalways one of the three things I
said coaching course or groupcoaching because those are the
(33:35):
highest profit margin productthat you can own.
Camille (33:39):
And I'm curious about price point Cause I feel like
that's a thing I get asked abouta lot is what if I create a
course?
How much should it be?
And and a lot of times peopleget nervous about charging for a
course.
What would be your opinionabout that?
Stefanie (33:53):
Sure.
So if you are really a newbieand I'm talking like you have, I
call them super fans.
They're the people who are onyour email list opening your
emails.
You know in your Facebook grouplike they're your people, your
core people.
If there's less than 250 ofthose, I highly recommend
sticking with coaching becauseyou still don't really know.
You're getting to know yourpeople, you're getting to know
(34:14):
yourself, your business, and soyou stick with coaching.
And we have people start fromlike $67 to 97 for coaching,
like an hour, and then you,every time you book up for three
months in a row, you doubleyour prices.
So that's how I got from 80 to800 so fast.
It was like 80.
Then I went 160.
Then I went like almost 400.
Then I went 800.
(34:35):
So like you're doubling andscaling as your demand grows,
because we want to continue toscale, but with a one-on-one
method you have to take lessclients.
So that's the coaching.
Once you pass that, like 300super fans, like people who are
really, really in it with youand you've done some coaching,
start looking at what yourcourse will be.
And I have people price thatcourse out between 297 and 497.
(35:00):
And the reason for that isthey're still kind of beta, like
we're just launching our firstcourse, we're seeing if it sells
.
We want to validate the offer.
I don't want them to createthis high ticket thing when we
don't even know if it's thething yet.
Like, everything in business isa test, everything in business.
So we test it.
Does it sell, is it highlydesired?
(35:22):
And then we optimize.
And as we optimize over time wecan raise prices accordingly.
And so it starts there and Ialways recommend a payment plan
so you don't need to be afraidof charging because there's a
payment plan.
So people can do that as well.
Anything under $297, peopledon't show up for it, so they're
(35:43):
not going to take your course,and you don't want to sell
things to people that aren'tgoing to take the course.
So that's that.
If you have like over 2000super fans, I start pushing my
students a bit more to thehigher ticket group coaching.
So we'll look at like a 997 ora 1997 six-month group coaching
(36:03):
program and beyond.
Once we start getting thebigger followings and more super
fans, we can scale with thatand create something that might
be a bit more robust yeah, oh,that's good advice.
Camille (36:14):
I love how you've come up with benchmarks, because
those are similar numbers that Iam familiar with and I've seen
people do.
Those are similar numbers thatI am familiar with and I've seen
people do.
But to say, if you have thistype of fan base and or this,
this, a type of authoritybecause I feel like that piece
comes into play too is do youhave the accreditation, are you
a doctor, are you a specialist?
Do you have you know that thatalso can play a part, and a lot
(36:38):
of times it's confidence andwhat you, what your mindset is
around it, especially withcoaching, I see, because it's
the wild west a bit with that,where it's there's not this
benchmark of like, okay, onceyou hit this, then that's what
you can charge.
Stefanie (36:54):
So that's really I like how you set that out.
Yeah, and to that confidencepiece, you know it's not really
what you say, it's how you sayit.
It's so much of how you say itlike what you, how you position
everything does matter, like thepodcast title and the
experience that people get andthe SEO those things do matter.
But when it comes down toconversion and actually making a
sale, it's about how youconfidently connect with someone
(37:18):
.
If they believe that you cansolve their problem, they will
buy.
So if you guys can practicethat and I tell my students I'm
like, just act as if for that 30seconds, like really embody the
most confident, brave versionof yourself, elevate your voice
a little bit, like reallycommand attention, because it's
(37:39):
about the feeling that yourbuyer gets in, or that's what
creates the buying posture oflike I'm actually going to go
stop what I'm doing right nowand check out for this thing
that I've been wanting for awhile.
It's your authority when yousell.
Camille (37:55):
Yeah, I agree with that , especially when it's audio, of
course, because then if theycan sense that within the
intonation of your voice, howconfidently you're saying the
thing, and I'm curious with asfar as building that list or
making that offer, how oftenwould you suggest that people
are pushing or selling ratherthan the value piece, or do you
(38:17):
always have that call to actionfor the thing you're selling?
What's your advice with that?
Stefanie (38:21):
So I always sell, and I think that that is a must
because people are so distractedEven our podcast people, which
are some of the more focusedpeople left on the planet
they're still doing somethingelse while they're listening to
you, and so I sell every singleepisode.
But I don't do it in a creepyway.
It's always an invitation andit's always varied.
(38:43):
So one time I might talk abouta student success story.
This time over here I mighttalk about the results.
This time over here I mighttalk about the pain points that
they're going through.
This time over here I mightjust hard sell it.
And so I'm constantly playingwith the different methods of
selling, because one persondoesn't make a buying decision
the same as someone else andthere's so many different ways
(39:05):
that people decide to buy.
Like some people are emotionalbuyers, some people are sale
buyers, some people are painpoint buyers, and so I do that
all the time.
But it needs to be varied andreally authentic, and it's never
pushy, ever, once in a while.
It's pushy because Cause it'slike I'm going to get in their
face and say, like you've beenpraying for this answer and
you've not taken action, likewhat's going on?
(39:26):
I will call that out sometimes,but more often than not it's
like I'll be here when you'reready, like take it or leave it,
and I think that postureactually gets people to buy
because they're going oh my gosh, I'm left behind, like Steph's
going without me, with thepeople that are with her, like I
should go, I should go.
And so I think if we stop beingweird about selling and just
recognize, like you have thething that someone is
(39:49):
desperately praying for, so stopholding back on it, like they
can choose to say yes or no, andthe podcast episode is the
value, so they can skip me,don't care, you know, go ahead,
skip it.
The value.
So they can skip me, don't care, you know, go ahead, skip it.
The value is here for you 850episodes later, but I'm going to
tell you how you're going to goget that solution.
Camille (40:10):
It's by working with me unapologetically every single
time.
I love that.
I agree with that too.
That sense of confidence and Ithink for me that's something
that I have a weakness in is Ido.
I'm so used to the, I think,the blogger mindset of like,
value, value, value, value, oh,and I need to sell to you now.
So sometimes I get hold backwith that, and I think that that
(40:36):
is generally more what peopledo in my experience that it so
to have that confidence of likeno, every time I'm going to
remind you I can help you.
That's really important and I'mcurious what do you think about
?
A new thing I see creeping upis like a secret podcast or a
private podcast, where it's likea series or people are doing
like a problem and then saying,oh, I have this secret podcast
series, but you have to besubscribed.
(40:57):
What is your opinion about that?
Stefanie (41:00):
I think that those are fine if you want them to be a
conversion tool.
But the first order of businessis like I need a podcast and I
need to blow it up, because thepodcast is the way that people
are going to come into thefunnel and the way that people
are going to trust you.
If later like, okay, I'mhitting you know a couple
hundred thousand downloads, I'mgrowing my super fan number, I'm
hitting a couple hundredthousand downloads, I'm growing
(41:21):
my super fan number, I'm makingsales and now I wanna build
something that helps convert tothis offer that I know sells.
Sure, you can make the like.
Let's say that you have themacro methods course and you
have the macros for beginnerspodcast.
You can say I have this secretpodcast.
It'll take you through sevendays of perfecting your macros,
but the reason someone goes tothe secret podcast is to go
(41:44):
through the seven days to getsold the macros course.
So, like there's a method tothe madness we don't create more
things to create more things.
We want a podcast thatgenerates leads and offer that's
hard selling.
And now we figure out themiddle.
That's the last step.
How do I make more conversionsof the thing that's already
selling organically straightfrom the podcast?
Camille (42:05):
So question about the middle what is your opinion on
podcast length and also having aguest, versus being the solo
person who's talking all of thetime, because I know that my
solo episodes are very wellreceived, but most of my
episodes are interview based,because that's a big piece of
how I'm doing networking andcoaching, with lining people up
(42:29):
with what I offer, with virtualassistants as an example.
So what is your opinion on thedifferent avenues in that regard
?
Stefanie (42:38):
So, usually people's sweet spot for a podcast
listening is less than 20minutes, so I typically
encourage my students to be lessthan 20 minutes for interviews.
Typically, I tell them to tryto keep it under 35 minutes
Cause there's a lot of you know,I hate to say fluff, but like
storytelling and things that canhappen in interviews which some
(42:59):
people are obsessed with andthat's the model.
And like, as long as yourdownload numbers support, people
like these episodes as much asthey like 15 minutes with
Camille.
Keep doing it.
But pay attention to thoseanalytics.
Maybe you know oh, wow, I'mgetting half the listens when I
have an episode with someoneelse.
Let me try shortening it byhalf the length.
Does it pick back up?
(43:19):
Is it the length?
That that's the problem?
So I'm always looking at myanalytics to see what do they
want, what do they not want andthen making sure it's fun for
you.
Some people hate doinginterviews.
Have a solo show.
Some people, like I, only wantto have interviews.
I hate talking about myself.
I have an interview podcast.
You can do whatever you want todo.
As long as it's niched all theway down to your person and what
(43:40):
they actually need from you,you will be okay, but that's so.
There's that, and I think justpay attention to what your
audience is liking and kind offollow their lead and know that,
like you can also just dowhatever you want.
You enjoy doing something andit brings you joy as a podcaster
.
Let that be a once in a whilething for you, if your audience
(44:01):
isn't loving it, yeah.
Camille (44:03):
Ooh, I love it.
Okay, so to wrap this up, forpeople who are listening and
saying I want to start a podcast, I feel like this is what I
need to do.
What are the top three thingsthat they should do to get
started?
And then also, of course, howwould they connect with you?
Stefanie (44:19):
Yes, so good.
So the top three things youshould do if you want to start a
podcast, number one would beget clear on your micro, micro
niche.
So what are you going topodcast about?
What's the segment of themarket, what's the little
identifier in there and who isit for?
Do that deep work?
Um, the second thing you want todo is probably take a course to
(44:40):
teach you how to do it rightthe first time, because I think
when we go to YouTube Universityor whatnot, it's just, it's one
puzzle, piece of an entirepuzzle, and that really leads
people astray.
I've seen so many people buy amini course on email marketing
and then a mini course on makinga course, and then and now we
have 14 different expertstelling you to do 14 things a
different way, and we end upwith a mess.
(45:01):
And so see if you can't findthe right person for you
Obviously, I'm an option ifthat's something you're looking
for and then you start, youpress launch, because the only
way for your podcast to becomehighly successful is if you
start and then you optimize.
If we have no data, we can'trefine.
So if we sit in perfectionismand we sit in fear and we never
(45:23):
start, then the podcast willnever grow.
So those are what you do and Ido have so and where do you
connect with me?
The podcast is a great place tocome and learn.
It's online business forChristian women.
Anywhere you listen to shows.
I also have a five-day bootcampthat you can come and watch at
(45:45):
stephaniegasscom slash bootcamp,and we're going to give Camille
a code.
So if you guys type in Camilleat checkout, we'll give that to
you for free.
So stephaniegasscom slashbootcamp code Camille
C-A-M-I-L-L-E, you guys can takethat If you want to learn.
How the heck do I podcast, howdoes it make money and go
through like a whole five dayexperience with me?
There's your gift and I hopethat that blesses you.
Camille (46:06):
Oh, I love that, and I think that the optimized piece
is where a lot of people couldget stuck, and is that something
that with making or workingthrough the weeds of that?
What would be your suggestionwith the optimization of it?
Stefanie (46:21):
Yes, so that's what I talk about a lot in the bootcamp
, so you guys will learn allabout that.
I have an entire one of thewhole days of the training is
about SEO keywords why we titlethe show the way that we do.
So that bootcamp will reallyhelp you guys get some clarity
on that, cause it's a wholeprocess, like my students go
through the optimization piecefor two weeks in my group
coaching program because there'sa lot to it.
(46:44):
So, you guys can come to that.
You know, free five day withthe code Camille and kind of
deep dive in there and that willhelp you get a little bit more
clarity on that, okay awesome.
Camille (46:54):
Well, one question that I ask all of our guests is what
are you reading, watching orlistening to and a motherhood
moment that you would like toshare?
Stefanie (47:04):
Ooh, let's see.
Well, I just finished readingSacred Marriage for the second
time and if you guys have notread that book and you are
married, please, for the love ofall things, go read it.
It is such a blessing to yourmarriage.
And then, before that, I'mtrying to think.
I think I was working throughBob Goff's latest devotional, oh
the whimsy one whimsy by BobGoff, so that was.
(47:26):
That's a really good one.
I'm a big fan of all his books.
Motherhood moment Well, my kidsrecently went and we recently
got them their own Bibles.
For like real Bibles for thefirst time, not like the kiddie
ones that were secondhandbecause they're going to break
them, but like they got to picka real one and to watch their
tenderness so they're eight and11, like putting the tabs on the
(47:49):
pages we bought them, thechapter tabs.
Like watching them put the tabswith the tenderness and the
care I'm.
Like watching them learn how tofind the wisdom and scripture
that we're leading them to.
It's been such a joy of myheart, uh, to see their interest
in a relationship with God wecultivated at such a young age
and to see like, um, you know,it's never too young to start
(48:13):
leading your kids into a truerelationship and letting them
explore what that means for them, and so that's been a really
beautiful week or so sincethey've gotten those Bibles to
watch that kind of come alivefor them.
Camille (48:24):
I love that.
Oh well, this has been sowonderful.
Stephanie, thank you so muchfor being on the show today and,
of course, if you areinterested, we'll make sure to
link all of the links below sothat you can get in touch with
her, and we will make sure thatyou get those answers that you
need.
So, thank you so much for beingon the show today.
(48:44):
Thanks so much, all right, andwe'll see you all next time.
Thank you all for tuning intotoday's episode and, in true
form, of letting you know that Ihave something to offer.
I am helping align busyentrepreneurs with virtual
assistants who have taken mycourse 60 days to VA, and, if
(49:06):
you are wanting to take a breakfrom social media, take a load
off with your emails, youradministrative tasks, whatever
that might be.
I have had so much fulfillmentgiving people the ability, the
systems and the answers that youneed to bring in team members
and give you some of your timeback.
So if that is something thatyou would like to hear more
(49:27):
about, please reach out to me atcallmeceopodcast, at gmailcom,
or you can reach out to me byInstagram at camillewalkerco or
callmeceopodcastcom, atcamillewalkerco or
callmeceopodcastcom.
Hey, ceos, thank you so muchfor spending your time with me.
(49:49):
If you found this episodeinspiring or helpful, please let
me know in a comment.
In a five-star review, youcould have the chance of being a
featured review on an upcomingepisode.
Continue the conversation onInstagram at callmeCEOPodcast,
and remember you are the boss.
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