August 5, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode of Call Me CEO, we’re joined by the wonderful Susie Spikol — a naturalist, mom, and now a published author who didn’t let age stop her from chasing her dream. Susie shares her journey of falling in love with nature, raising a family, and then finally stepping into her dream of writing and sharing her passion with the world — at the age of 50! We dive into the magic and healing power of nature, the fears and logistics behind writing your first book, and why it’s never too late to chase the calling that’s always been inside you.
What You’ll Learn:
- Why nature can be the ultimate therapist
- What inspired Susie to finally write her book
- The steps she took to publish her first book at 50
- How to balance big dreams with motherhood
- Practical tips for aspiring authors
Susie's Website: https://susiespikol.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/susiespikol
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susie-spikol-53500a238/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/susie.spikolfaber/
Connect with Camille:
- Website: CamilleWalker.co
- Instagram: @camillewalker.co
- More Episodes: Call Me CEO Podcast
- Email: callmeceopodcast@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Susie (00:00):
I think we have this idea as adults that nature has to be
really wild, like you have togo someplace like Yosemite or
Yellowstone to see these likeimmense wild places.
But nature is everywhere, it isabsolutely everywhere.
Camille (00:24):
So you want to make an impact.
You're thinking about startinga business, sharing your voice.
How do women do it that handlemotherhood, family and still
chase after those dreams?
We'll listen each week as wedive into the stories of women
who know.
This is Call Me CEO.
Welcome back everyone to CallMe CEO.
(00:46):
This is your host, camilleWalker, where we here at Call Me
CEO celebrate mothers buildingbusinesses and, even more than
that, we celebrate what it isthat defines those pieces of you
that have grown within you,that you've chased after and
you're making dreams happen.
And today's episode I'm sothrilled to share because Susie
(01:06):
Spickel has done just that andit's something that has been
growing within her for years andyears.
And what's even more fun isthat she's an author and a
naturalist.
We'll get into what that meanshere in a minute.
But this idea is something thatis finally blossoming and I say
finally, because it's beenthere for a long time to become
an author at 50.
And she's about ready torelease her second book, but her
(01:30):
first one is forest magic forkids how to find fairies, make a
secret fort and cook up anelfin picnic.
Oh my gosh, is that not the best?
I'm just like, yeah, this isgoing to be a fun, a fun
conversation.
So thank you for joining us.
We're going to talk about howit's never too late to chase
after that idea that you've had.
(01:51):
That's been stirred within you,so let's start.
Susie, thank you so much forbeing on the show today.
Well, thank you so much,camille.
This is really exciting.
I can't wait.
Yeah, so tell our audience alittle bit about you where you
grew up and where you're living,and what got you into becoming
an author and a naturalist.
Susie (02:10):
Sure, yeah Well, I live in a little tiny town in
Southwestern New Hampshirecalled Hancock.
It's very beautiful, it lookslike something out of a
Christmas movie most of the year, but I grew up in Brooklyn, new
York, right in the middle ofthe city, kind of right in the
thick of Brooklyn, when Brooklynwasn't so pretty, and so it's a
(02:33):
little.
It's a little bit different nowthan the neighborhood I grew up
in.
So, and I had always lovedwriting as a kid, I just loved
writing and I loved stories andI loved being outside, and I've
been really fortunate that I'vebeen able to combine those
things into my life's work.
(02:53):
I've been a naturalist teachingpeople about nature, and I
always wanted to write a book.
But it took me a long time toget there and so finally, at the
age of 50, I was like I'm goingto do it, I'm going to write
the book I've always wanted toand I did, and so it's really
exciting.
There it is.
Camille (03:13):
That is so cool and I love.
The first thing and message thatI want to emphasize here is
that it is never too late.
There is especially, I feellike, for many of us that are
moms, we think, oh well, I justhave this really short time to
hurry and get these dreams donebefore I become a mom, or maybe
by the time my kids are oldenough, I'll get back to
(03:35):
something, but then it'll be toolate and really it's not.
It's not too late and I feelthere was something.
One of my I would say onlinementors that she doesn't know
that she is, but she is isChalene Johnson, and I was
listening to a podcast episodeof hers and she said if you
(03:58):
think you've reached the peak ofyour potential by the time you
are in your mid twenties or evenmid thirties, I feel so very
sorry for you.
And it was to emphasize that thetime with our children is so
short and that does have afinite definition because kids
grow up.
However, our potential and ourability to grow and to redefine
and to claim those dreams doesnot have the same cap.
(04:22):
So I love that you took thatleap of that dream that you had
always had to become an authorand you went for it.
Was it scary for you to do?
Like, what was it that got inyour way of doing this thing?
Susie (04:33):
Oh yeah, it was really scary.
I think what got in the way islike I just I studied English
literature in college and Ithought I'd be a writer, you
know, but you don't.
It's hard to make a living as awriter and so I always kind of
kept writing and I got anothercareer of being a naturalist and
(04:53):
I then I had children and Iactually feel like pursuing my
dream when my kids were in theirteen years was actually really
great role modeling for them,because it just showed that no
matter like where you are inyour life, you can still go
after your dreams, and I thinkthat was really that was really
(05:15):
empowering to them and it mademe feel really empowered, like
I'm going to show my kids like Ihave this dream.
They knew about it, theyencouraged me, I would read them
things, they would give me goodfeedback and I just feel like
that's kind of what my path was,was waiting.
I always kept some ideas in myhead.
(05:36):
I had a little notebook whereI'd write things down, but it
wasn't until they kids got kindof old enough and I I had some
more mental space, becausewriting is so mental it's just
so much in your head that Icould actually sit down in front
of my computer and get to it.
Camille (05:54):
I love that Because, let's be honest, having
teenagers is a lot of mentalspace.
It goes from like being amother to little ones, where so
much is physical and you'rementally exhausted in terms of
like, maybe not getting enoughsleep or the demands of their
needs or whatever the thing is.
But teenage years it's mentalgymnastics, just doing your best
(06:15):
to support them and get throughtheir emotional needs that go
up and down.
It's so interesting how youthink one might be easier than
the other, but it's justdifferent.
It's just a different kind ofpull, yeah definitely.
Susie (06:28):
I think you hit it right on the head.
I mean having little ones, it'sjust so physically draining.
But then when they get to beteens and now I have, they're in
their twenties the issues orthe problems that they're having
are real, like you know, realworld problems.
They can be make or break theiryou know their future in some
way.
So it's so mentally drainingand I think in some ways the
(06:52):
writing was a really good escapefor me.
I could like enter into mywriting and it was my little
world and I was just totally incharge of that little world that
I was writing about.
So that felt really good whenyou have teenagers and they're
just really out in the big world.
So I think that was a reallygood balance for me.
(07:14):
Yeah, who?
Camille (07:15):
wouldn't want to escape to a world of fairies and forts
.
I mean, yes, that's amazing.
My sister has always saidlittle kids, little problems,
big kids, bigger problems.
My sister has always said littlekids, little problems, big kids
, bigger problems.
So I think another takeawayhere from that as well is make
sure that you have a space foryourself that fills you up,
Because when you are giving andpouring into these amazing kids,
(07:36):
it's so nice to have a space.
In fact, my sister right now isgetting a doctorate.
I'm like girl, you are likeyou're amazing, You're like in
your 50s and you're doing this.
And she'm like girl, you arelike you're amazing, You're like
in your fifties and you'redoing this.
And she's like this part's fun.
For me, it's the life stuff.
That's hard, you know.
So I think that's that's aninteresting perspective.
Well, let's talk about your book, because it is so unique and we
(07:59):
will be sharing this on YouTubeas well.
So I understand that some ofyou cannot see, but I do want
you to hold up the physical book, because when you think of a
kid's book, sometimes you thinkof something that's really maybe
thin or, but yours is not.
It's like a thicker kids bookand the illustrations are so
darling.
I love it so much.
(08:20):
So tell our audience a littlebit more about I love that one,
about what it means this bookand how it came to be and what I
want to hear the creativepieces of it, but I also want to
hear the logistic pieces of it,like being a publisher and an
illustrator, and how.
How do you make it all cometogether?
So let's start with the funstuff first.
Susie (08:43):
Sure, yeah.
So Forest Magic for Kids isreally a book for families
together.
It's an activity book based onmy work as a naturalist, which
is all about teaching people ofall ages about the natural world
, kind of helping them formthese connections, and so much
of my work has been about thescience of nature, you know,
(09:05):
teaching kids about how toidentify a tree or families, how
do you go birdwatching.
But something that I reallyrecognize from working with kids
is that imaginative space thatnature gives people and kids in
particular.
And if you think back in yourown life like maybe you had a
secret fort or maybe you played,you know a game outside where
(09:26):
you were fairies or you werelooking for a secret treasure,
and I really wanted to write abook that celebrated that for
families and gave it kind of avalidation, like it is totally
okay In fact it is more thanokay for you as a family to be
spending time outside justreally playing in the
imaginative space of nature.
(09:47):
Nature is so unbound, it's gotno walls, so your brain, your
imagination and creativity canjust go very expansive.
And what's great about that is,as a parent, you don't have to
have any special knowledge, youdon't have to know the identity
of a tree or how to tell whatbirds are singing.
You just have to play with yourkids, and I'm a really big
(10:10):
advocate in my work forunstructured playtime.
I just think that our kids needit.
I actually think we need it asadults as well.
So Forest Magic for Kids isreally a book filled with lots
of activity ideas with littlebits of kind of mythology and
folklore tied in with science.
It's kind of a mixture of itall and for me that's kind of
(10:33):
the joy that I find in nature.
I love the science of naturebut I also love, like, the folk
tales of nature.
So that's what I did, and I justfeel so lucky that I was able
to write this from my experienceand there was somebody who
wanted to publish it.
Camille (10:49):
That's so fun.
I you know I.
What I love about nature, too,is that it's non-discriminatory.
It doesn't mind, it doesn'tmatter how much money you make.
It doesn't matter whatageriminatory it doesn't matter
how much money you make.
It doesn't matter what age youare.
It doesn't matter what you looklike.
There are healing properties innature of all different kinds
being around water, being in theforest, being in the sand,
(11:12):
being in a starry night.
You know there just is so muchnatural magic that I love that
your book is capturing forfamilies to enjoy together.
Susie (11:24):
I love.
I love what you just said too,because I think sometimes we
think about all the things wehave to give our kids.
You know, got to get them thebicycle, got to get them this,
got to get them that, and natureis just there and it's full of
loose parts for play.
You know you don't need a kidwas really inspired by reading.
So I think there's a great linkto literacy and literature, and
(12:02):
libraries are just full ofgreat books filled with little
animals having wild adventuresin nature, and kids love that.
That's why there's so manybooks like that.
Camille (12:13):
So yeah, I'm going to plug my podcast here, because I
have a podcast called fiveminute meditations for kids.
Many of you probably don't knowthat it's only six months old,
but a lot of my meditations thatI create for children are based
in nature, animals and even seacreatures.
(12:35):
Because there is, there is somuch play, and even see
creatures.
Because there is, there is somuch play, and that's my like
this.
I love this podcast becauseit's connecting with people's
purpose and passion, but for me,when I create for that podcast,
I'm like this is all about playLike I actually grew up, my
parents owned I don't know, theystill live there six acres and
(12:55):
I had no video games.
I literally was out playing withsticks and stones and trees and
barefoot and wild crazy acres.
And I had no video games.
I literally was out playingwith sticks and stones and trees
and barefoot and wild crazyhair.
I was the youngest of five andI sometimes look at those
pictures and go, wow, like that,that's crazy, like that girl
was unattended to.
I had the most magical, magicalchildhood.
(13:15):
So it's interesting to hear itfrom your perspective, where you
literally grew up in a city,like you're in Brooklyn, and
you're imagining these forestsand creating that within your
own mind.
What, what was it that made youlean to that?
Was it because you grew up in acity or like, what was the
magic?
Susie (13:34):
Yeah, I mean, I think for me the magic was really the
stories, Like I was prettyconvinced that I was going to
find fairies and gnomes and adoor to another world, like in
Narnia or something like that.
So I just had a really richdiet of great books and my mom
was a wonderful storyteller.
(13:55):
She would, you know, look up atthe stars.
Even in Brooklyn you can seethe stars, you know and she
would point out, like, make upstories about the stars.
And it just fed my imaginationand you know, I think we have
this idea as adults that naturehas to be really wild, like you
(14:15):
have to go someplace likeYosemite or Yellowstone to see
these like immense wild places.
But nature is everywhere, it isabsolutely everywhere.
From where I live in rural NewHampshire to where I grew up in
the city of Brooklyn, you canfind nature and I was like a kid
that would look in the cracksin the sidewalk.
(14:36):
I would like find the tree, theone tree on the block or, you
know, the bumblebee and theflowers on the in the parks.
And if you do live in a city,there's so many great parks and
and parks are really having aheyday and recognizing kind of
the power of being outside.
There's so much information nowabout how it's so good for us
(15:00):
physically and mentally.
It lowers our stress hormones,that's cortisol.
It increases our oxygen.
It actually increases ourvitamin D levels, exposure to
sunlight all of those things ourbody needs.
And there was just a studyabout how good it is for young
(15:20):
eyes to be outside, becausethey're looking close, they're
looking far, the sunlight isinteracting with their eyes and
it's really just very healthyfor us physically.
And then there's lots ofevidence about all the good
stuff it does for us ouremotional wellness.
You know, like you know as aparent, we know if you bring
(15:41):
your kids to the beach andthey're at the beach all day,
they sleep like nothing is evergoing to wake them up that night
.
So time outside, it's good forall of us and it's really great
when parents and kids can spendtime outside together.
Camille (15:55):
Yeah, I mean listening to you talking about this.
I feel like I need to put moreof an emphasis on doing this.
I think I was better with myfirst two being outside with
them more, because as my twoolder kids have gotten older,
they're more into their phonesor to the TV or video games or
whatever else, and I think I'vegotten lazy sometimes with
(16:18):
getting them outdoors as much.
And now it is finally, the sunis out.
I'm in Utah, so we're.
It snowed a bunch, like lastweek, no, no kidding.
And today's earth day, it's what?
April 22nd, yeah, and gosh it.
It just even being outside andseeing the budding flowers and
(16:38):
the trees and it's like, oh,there's so much joy that comes
just from being outside anddigging your hands into the
earth.
It's interesting because I justwas on a phone call with my
friend five minutes ago and Isaid what are you doing?
And she said, oh, I'm justoutside with my computer working
, just to feel the sunshine andit feels so good.
(17:00):
And I think that even those10-minute walks that we can do
or just getting our kids outsideit changes so much of our
perspective.
I would love to hear, becauseyou have done this for so many
years as a naturalist.
What are some stories maybethat you could share, of magic
that you've seen happen eitherfor adults, children, teenagers,
(17:23):
where you've helped open theireyes to the magic of nature and
how that changed their lives?
Susie (17:28):
Goodness, it's almost like an everyday thing for me.
I mean, I just spend a lot oftime with people of all ages in
the outdoors and really I thinkmy favorite thing to do with
kids and they're usually aboutsecond grade and up for this
activity is having a littlenature journal where kids can
(17:50):
kind of find a spot outside, sitdown and, like we do a census
of our senses.
So what do you see?
Three things.
You see three things, you hearthree things, you smell three
things.
You feel with your hands.
We usually skip the tasting partbecause that can be dangerous,
but really just having peoplereally tune into their senses,
(18:13):
that's so simple and it's sogreat.
You, you can do it on yourstoop, you know, at the front
steps of your house, you can doit.
If you um, if you're like myfamily, we do a lot of sports
you know you're at that, you'rewaiting for your kid to come up
to bat, you can take, look up atthe sky.
So just, I think, taking thosemoments to really just tune in
(18:35):
to your senses and do like whatam I seeing?
What am I smelling?
What am I hearing?
What am I seeing?
What am I smelling?
What am I hearing.
What am I feeling when I'm outhere?
How does the sun feel on me,what does the wind feel Like,
all of those things?
I think those are so simple andbasic but really like one of my
favorite things to do is get anold kitchen strainer and a
(18:55):
little container like a littlebucket or like a little dish tub
and go to a pond and you need alittle plastic spoon and dip
your strainer into the pond andI mean it's remarkable the
amazing things you can find in alittle strainer full of pond
water and I think for familiesit can be really eye opening.
(19:18):
There's so much of the worldout there that we don't even see
, but when we stop to noticeit's really makes you feel like
you're part of something bigger,Very meditative too, because
all of those things that youjust talked about are practices
that you do.
Camille (19:34):
If you're doing any kind of meditation practice
where, or if someone is startingto spin out like if they're
having an anxiety attack, or ifthey're doing any kind of
meditation practice where or ifsomeone is starting to spin out
like if they're having ananxiety attack or if they're
feeling anxious, being in likesocial situations, the first
thing they will say is what canyou see, what can you hear, what
do you feel, what is sensationson your skin?
And that brings you to apresent moment, which I think in
(19:55):
nature.
And that brings you to apresent moment which I think in
nature.
It's so much more, it feels somuch more natural to appreciate
those moments, because it's notlike temperature controlled and
you know, sounds of like the TVversus sounds of a bird and, oh
my gosh, is that a frog or wasthat a cricket, or what does
that?
mean you know.
So I think that there is, thereare so many layers there of
(20:18):
being in the present moment andcreating that awareness and that
presentness without the rush.
I feel like that is somethingthat is really where the magic
of nature brings us into,because the sounds of water like
listening to running water orlistening to the waves crash, or
listening to it's it's verymelodic, melodic, and then it's
(20:40):
also very meditative, like itreally is where we can kind of
get into a flow, where it's whatelse can do that?
Susie (20:48):
I know it's amazing and I think like, if you think back
in our ancient past, I mean welived a lot closer to the rhythm
of nature and I believe, Ifirmly believe that that's like
hardwired in us as humans and wefeel our best when we are
connected to the natural rhythmof the world and, like I loved
(21:09):
how you described the wavescoming in and out, it's almost
like a breath in itself.
It's like that noticing of thein and the out, you can kind of
feel your own breath coming intothe same rhythm as the ocean.
If you're near an ocean, Ithink you're really landlocked.
I have a little bit of ocean.
(21:30):
I think another kind ofextraordinarily simple and
magical thing to do is to laydown and look up.
You know whether it's lookingat the clouds and sharing with
your child, like what does thatcloud remind you of?
Watching it change?
Or, even better, if you can goout at night and look up at the
stars and again, even in mylittle tiny, tiny backyard in
(21:54):
Brooklyn we would bring out ourchairs and look up and you can
see the moon.
You know that gives you aperspective of a cosmic scale
that can be really thoughtprovoking and create kind of
like wonder and curiosity inyour family.
So I think those times arereally great too.
Camille (22:17):
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Okay, well, good, so that's thebook.
Gosh, we got really taken awaywith the creative side of things
.
Let's go into the logisticsside in terms of making your
(23:26):
book happen.
What are some first steps thatyou needed to get in place,
where you actually got apublisher.
That's not easy because a lotof people now are
self-publishing because of thecost and the commitments and you
know all of those agreements ofgetting someone believing in
the idea and then also you knowjust the bandwidth of getting it
(23:46):
produced and all of that.
Susie (23:50):
So please tell us what were the steps of that?
Well, first, this sounds sosilly, but the very first thing
I had to do was actually writepretty regularly.
So once I was like I'm going towrite, this is really what I've
always wanted to do, I justmade space in my life to pretty
much start a writing routinewhere I wrote like every day in
a little journal and I didn'tcare if it was like good writing
(24:12):
, I just wrote.
I just wrote like 10 minutes,five minutes Sometimes, when I
was waiting to pick my kids up,I would just write and you could
do it on your phone.
You know there's so many ways.
So making space for writing,that was really important.
And then I started to submitthings to different magazines,
like I'd get magazines and I'dkind of offer an idea.
(24:33):
So I think starting withmagazines was really helpful for
me because it increased myconfidence in myself.
Like you're writing a wholebook, it's a lot of work.
Yeah, you know that's hundredsof pages if you're writing a big
book, or you know thousands ofwords.
But if you're like writing anessay and it's at 800 words, you
(24:55):
know, and there's places whereyou could submit that to and
maybe somebody publishes it andyou get excited and you get kind
of your confidence.
So that was another thing I didwas starting to write for
magazines and I write.
I wrote for a magazine calledNorthern Woodlands.
These are more likenature-based.
I wrote essays.
My local newspaper I write acolumn in there Yankee Magazine,
(25:20):
taproot Magazine, a couple ofjournals.
So I just kept like submittingstuff and you got to have a
thick skin.
You get a lot of rejections andit makes you cry and I keep a
whole drawer.
It's like my tears but don'topen that drawer, but sometimes
(25:41):
I have to put stuff in there.
And then when I got an idea, Isubmitted a proposal to an agent
and I had some luck with that,but not great luck.
And actually Forest Magic forKids is my second book.
I have a book before thatcalled the Animal Adventurer's
(26:03):
Guide how to Prowl for Owls,make Snail Slime and Catch a
Frog Barehanded, and that bookwas all about.
It's a guidebook too forfamilies, about families
connecting with the localeveryday animals in their world.
So the agents got my book andshe sold it.
She was able to sell it to apublishing company, but the
(26:24):
publishing company wanted me torewrite it.
I had written it as a guide forparents.
So you write this whole bookand then it gets sent back to
you and they're like we want tobuy it, but can you rewrite it?
So it's for kids.
And I did.
I just, I had this rule in myhead that just said say yes to
everything, just say yes to it,like it might make your life
(26:46):
feel really hard and crazy, butjust say yes.
So I just I said yes, I rewroteit and then it became my first
book and the editor who workedon that book.
She changed publishingcompanies and when she got to a
new publishing company shecalled me up and said hey, you
have any ideas?
And that's when I pitched herthe forest magic idea.
(27:07):
So it's just a lot of work and alot of times, you know, you
don't feel like you're gettingaware and then all of a sudden
you get somewhere.
So don't give up, keep writing.
I worked, I had a writing group.
I joined four other women thatwe would share our writing tweet
with each other.
That was really helpful and Ijust kept.
(27:30):
I just sound so corny I can'teven believe I'm admitting this,
but I would.
When I walk my dogs at night,the last thing I would do is
find a star and I would wish onthe star and I would just be
like please, please, let me havea book, please, let me have a
book.
I just put it out to the world,out to the universe first, and
and it happened.
And now I have animal animal,the animal adventures guide,
(27:53):
forest magic for kids, and inSeptember I have my first
fiction book called book offairies, which is just over 30
different fairies that.
I started that book when I waseight, camille.
That was like my littlenotebook full of fairies that I
kept looking for and then Ifinally got to write it and it's
coming out and I hope peoplelove it.
Camille (28:14):
Oh, that's so fun.
Well, that will just be a fewmonths from when this episode
goes live, because it'll be afew months from today.
That's so exciting.
I know.
Susie (28:23):
It's so cute too.
Camille (28:25):
I'm sure the artwork is it the same?
Illustrator.
Susie (28:27):
Yeah, it's like a companion to Forest Magic and
even though it's like a fairybook, the idea behind it was
really encouraging kids to goout into nature and look for
fairies.
Camille (28:39):
So it's interesting there's a big, big influence of
fairy hunting in Ireland.
It's a big part of their, theirfables and of their lore Like
they talk about fairies a lotyeah we folk.
You need to make sure yourbooks are available there
because, yeah, there's a hugemarket for that.
Susie (29:00):
I feel a little worried.
I mean, the, the book offairies, is based on some fairy
mythology, mostly from easternand western Europe, and then my
own fairies from when I waseight and then just fairies that
I've heard kids talk about.
So it's sort of a mixture offolklore and kind of imagination
.
Yeah, that's creative folklore,I'll call it.
Camille (29:23):
Oh, I love that.
So, looking back, now thatyou're on this side of things,
when you're writing formagazines, do they pay you?
Was that something where, ifyou got it submitted and they
accepted, you would get paymentfor that?
Yes, yes, yes.
Susie (29:37):
But not always Like.
Sometimes I would just like thenewspaper.
They don't pay me.
I write a column, like everyfew months, I share it with
another friend of mine and wedon't get paid because the local
paper is barely keeping theirhead above water.
So, but yes, most magazineswill pay you if they take your
writing, and these are most ofmine have been print magazines,
(29:58):
not like online magazines, so Idon't know so much about that.
And did you?
Camille (30:03):
Google like who you should apply to with magazines.
Susie (30:07):
Yeah, yeah, I looked through magazines.
I spent a lot of time at thelibrary I'm a big fan of
libraries.
I I pitched plenty of thingsthat didn't get taken, but then
(30:33):
I was lucky.
I think, being a naturalist,somebody that is really
interested in the natural world,and I know I have, you know,
lots of experience and knowledgein it I kind of use that to be
my first writing point.
So I wrote what I really knew,and that's that is what they say
, right, what you know, yeah.
So that was really helpful andI mean, yeah, it's been great.
(30:58):
I still write for magazines andthis coming year I'm going to
be writing for the old farmersalmanac too, which is like a big
part of Yankee, it's part ofthe Yankee suite of things and
it's I'm excited about that too,so that's awesome.
Camille (31:12):
So then, as you're writing for these magazines,
that gives you more experience,exposure.
Do you think that also gave youa leg up in terms of like
getting a publisher wherethey're like, oh, she's been
published in these magazines andyou can show proof?
You know, have that experience?
Susie (31:30):
when you write nonfiction which is basically my first two
books have been nonfiction,which is basically my first two
books have been nonfiction youhave to submit a proposal and
the proposal will be kind oflike what your big idea is, a
very kind of detailed table ofcontents like this chapter is
going to be about this, and thenyou also have to write like why
(31:51):
you are the person to write thewrite this story, like why you.
And then they also want to knowwhere have you been published
before, and a lot of times theymight ask you to submit examples
of those things.
So I do think writing formagazines was really helpful for
me.
But you know, if you write, ifyou have a blog I think lots of
bloggers can, or influencers can, get kind of deals this way by
(32:17):
showing that they have afollowing and they ask that too,
like how many people follow youon Facebook?
How many are Instagram?
Are you on LinkedIn?
Like they want to know it all.
Camille (32:26):
So there and I I think there is more pressure for clout
of social proof if you'rewanting which is interesting
because that was never a thingbefore.
It was more kind of on thepublisher to do the distribution
, marketing, all those differentpieces where now I feel like
it's kind of the reverse, whereit's like okay, why should we
(32:48):
invest in you?
What kind of following do youhave?
Susie (32:51):
100%.
You are so on target on that.
And not only that, but a lot ofthe publishing companies in
years past.
I didn't experience thisbecause this is new for me, but
friends of mine who are writers,who've been writing for a long
time, they'll say something likewell, back 20 years ago the
publisher handled everything,they made all the connections,
(33:11):
they did all the connections,they did all like, they did all
the PR for you.
But that is not the caseanymore.
You, as a writer, have to bedoing your own, a lot of your
own PR.
I mean, they do some, but thenyou really have to sell your
book.
Camille (33:25):
Any advice about that, Like how cause I feel?
Susie (33:28):
like that piece.
Camille (33:29):
Not only do you have to be the creative and like the
the bit, the visionary of this,but now you have to be the
marketing person.
Like what are some bits ofadvice.
Susie (33:37):
You can give people for that Gosh.
I don't know if I'm so good togive advice because it is hard,
but you are though, becauseyou're doing it.
Camille (33:43):
It's hard, but like what have you done, that's
worked.
Susie (33:45):
Yeah, I mean I really think, well, I have a connection
in the natural, like the natureworld in England, so I use
those connections.
So I would just say, whateverconnections you have, I would
say, use those connections.
I have friends who are authorsso I would like ask them and
(34:08):
they made some connections forme, different bookstore
connections.
I was really fortunate becauseas part of my work as a
naturalist, I visit a lot oflibraries in my region and
libraries and librarians can bea huge market.
So if you get a good review anda librarian says this was the
(34:29):
best program, then all of asudden you're going to have a
million libraries kind ofcontacting you.
And I guess I should say too,like this is important for
people to know I have not beenable to make a living being a
writer.
I know there's people who do it, but I.
(34:51):
Yes, I mean you as a naturalistat the place that I work, at the
Harris Center for ConservationEducation.
But I have to keep that jobbecause writing is not a huge
moneymaker for me yet.
But maybe you're right, Camille, Maybe I will have that.
Maybe, if we talk, in a coupleof years I'll be like yes, I'm
just writing now.
Camille (35:09):
Well, here's what's really cool is that this dream
that you had, that started soyoung, is something that you've
been building and creatingauthority in the space, and
you've been building communityin the space and you've been
building vision of what it isthat you want to share.
So, the fact that you're like,okay, I'm ready to write, I
think you did it in the way youwere meant to because, really,
(35:30):
you established a big foundationof who you are.
Susie (35:34):
Yeah, I have to give a shout out to this time.
With this book I hired a PRfirm to help me because I was
like we spent all this time, allthis, like personal resource.
You give up a lot of things tostay home and write a book and
if it doesn't sell, like okay,you still wrote the book and
that feels great, but you wantit to sell.
(35:54):
So this this time around I waslike I think I need a little bit
of help to get the message ofmy book and what I'm talking
about out into the broader worldthan just New England.
Camille (36:06):
So I would recommend that to you, and that's how I
learned about you was an emailfrom your PR that reached out,
so yeah, and that's very commonfor authors to hire a PR firm.
Susie (36:16):
In fact, the PR firm that I use, mmp.
They specialize in just authors.
So you know, we think of PR asmaybe somebody who's got, you
know, a movie or some, anactress or an actor, whatever,
or yeah, but this is somebodywho specializes just in authors.
Camille (36:38):
Oh, that's awesome.
Well, I think, to wrap this allup, the clear message here is
that you're never too old, it'snever too late, that there are
pieces that you're putting inplace, that that dream within
you is going to happen If yougive it the nourishment it needs
, just like a seed in nature.
This you know.
It's the good soil, it's thatfoundation, it's the sunlight,
(36:59):
it's the water.
So, whoever is listening,you've made it to the end of
this episode, thank you, and Iwant you to take this as a
message to nourish that ideathat you have and to chase after
that dream, because there is areason why you're being called
to do the thing.
So, susie, thank you so muchfor sharing your story with us
today.
Susie (37:20):
Thank you, camille.
This was so much fun and I justagain.
I think you hit it right on thehead.
Just don't give up on thosedreams, keep pursuing them.
Camille (37:28):
Amazing and tell our audience where they can find
your books.
Susie (37:32):
Yes, so my books are all available through regular
bookstores like Amazon, yourindependent bookstores.
You can also visit my websiteat suziespicklecom and check
that out.
Some of my other writing frommagazines is on there.
Yeah, you can just go out andspread the word.
Everybody buy Forest Magic andkeep your eyes open for the Book
(37:53):
of Fairies coming out inSeptember.
Camille (37:56):
Oh perfect.
Well, again, thank you everyonefor tuning in and make sure you
check out 5-Minute Meditationsfor Kids.
It is an amazing resource forteachers, educators, parents,
coaches.
We have specific episodes thatare about overcoming anxiety,
building confidence, bedtimestories, meditations, mantras.
(38:16):
It is so good and it's socreative.
I think you will love it.
So check it out and thank youall for being here and we will
see you next time.
Hey CEOs, thank you so much forspending your time with me.
If you found this episodeinspiring or helpful, please let
me know in a comment.
In a five-star review, youcould have the chance of being a
featured review on an upcomingepisode.
(38:37):
Continue the conversation onInstagram at callmeCEOPodcast,
and remember you are the boss.
I think we have this idea as adults that nature has to be
really wild, like you have togo someplace like Yosemite or
Yellowstone to see these likeimmense wild places.
But nature is everywhere, it isabsolutely everywhere.
Camille (00:24):
So you want to make an impact.
You're thinking about startinga business, sharing your voice.
How do women do it that handlemotherhood, family and still
chase after those dreams?
We'll listen each week as wedive into the stories of women
who know.
This is Call Me CEO.
Welcome back everyone to CallMe CEO.
(00:46):
This is your host, camilleWalker, where we here at Call Me
CEO celebrate mothers buildingbusinesses and, even more than
that, we celebrate what it isthat defines those pieces of you
that have grown within you,that you've chased after and
you're making dreams happen.
And today's episode I'm sothrilled to share because Susie
(01:06):
Spickel has done just that andit's something that has been
growing within her for years andyears.
And what's even more fun isthat she's an author and a
naturalist.
We'll get into what that meanshere in a minute.
But this idea is something thatis finally blossoming and I say
finally, because it's beenthere for a long time to become
an author at 50.
And she's about ready torelease her second book, but her
(01:30):
first one is forest magic forkids how to find fairies, make a
secret fort and cook up anelfin picnic.
Oh my gosh, is that not the best?
I'm just like, yeah, this isgoing to be a fun, a fun
conversation.
So thank you for joining us.
We're going to talk about howit's never too late to chase
after that idea that you've had.
(01:51):
That's been stirred within you,so let's start.
Susie, thank you so much forbeing on the show today.
Well, thank you so much,camille.
This is really exciting.
I can't wait.
Yeah, so tell our audience alittle bit about you where you
grew up and where you're living,and what got you into becoming
an author and a naturalist.
Susie (02:10):
Sure, yeah Well, I live in a little tiny town in
Southwestern New Hampshirecalled Hancock.
It's very beautiful, it lookslike something out of a
Christmas movie most of the year, but I grew up in Brooklyn, new
York, right in the middle ofthe city, kind of right in the
thick of Brooklyn, when Brooklynwasn't so pretty, and so it's a
(02:33):
little.
It's a little bit different nowthan the neighborhood I grew up
in.
So, and I had always lovedwriting as a kid, I just loved
writing and I loved stories andI loved being outside, and I've
been really fortunate that I'vebeen able to combine those
things into my life's work.
(02:53):
I've been a naturalist teachingpeople about nature, and I
always wanted to write a book.
But it took me a long time toget there and so finally, at the
age of 50, I was like I'm goingto do it, I'm going to write
the book I've always wanted toand I did, and so it's really
exciting.
There it is.
Camille (03:13):
That is so cool and I love.
The first thing and message thatI want to emphasize here is
that it is never too late.
There is especially, I feellike, for many of us that are
moms, we think, oh well, I justhave this really short time to
hurry and get these dreams donebefore I become a mom, or maybe
by the time my kids are oldenough, I'll get back to
(03:35):
something, but then it'll be toolate and really it's not.
It's not too late and I feelthere was something.
One of my I would say onlinementors that she doesn't know
that she is, but she is isChalene Johnson, and I was
listening to a podcast episodeof hers and she said if you
(03:58):
think you've reached the peak ofyour potential by the time you
are in your mid twenties or evenmid thirties, I feel so very
sorry for you.
And it was to emphasize that thetime with our children is so
short and that does have afinite definition because kids
grow up.
However, our potential and ourability to grow and to redefine
and to claim those dreams doesnot have the same cap.
(04:22):
So I love that you took thatleap of that dream that you had
always had to become an authorand you went for it.
Was it scary for you to do?
Like, what was it that got inyour way of doing this thing?
Susie (04:33):
Oh yeah, it was really scary.
I think what got in the way islike I just I studied English
literature in college and Ithought I'd be a writer, you
know, but you don't.
It's hard to make a living as awriter and so I always kind of
kept writing and I got anothercareer of being a naturalist and
(04:53):
I then I had children and Iactually feel like pursuing my
dream when my kids were in theirteen years was actually really
great role modeling for them,because it just showed that no
matter like where you are inyour life, you can still go
after your dreams, and I thinkthat was really that was really
(05:15):
empowering to them and it mademe feel really empowered, like
I'm going to show my kids like Ihave this dream.
They knew about it, theyencouraged me, I would read them
things, they would give me goodfeedback and I just feel like
that's kind of what my path was,was waiting.
I always kept some ideas in myhead.
(05:36):
I had a little notebook whereI'd write things down, but it
wasn't until they kids got kindof old enough and I I had some
more mental space, becausewriting is so mental it's just
so much in your head that Icould actually sit down in front
of my computer and get to it.
Camille (05:54):
I love that Because, let's be honest, having
teenagers is a lot of mentalspace.
It goes from like being amother to little ones, where so
much is physical and you'rementally exhausted in terms of
like, maybe not getting enoughsleep or the demands of their
needs or whatever the thing is.
But teenage years it's mentalgymnastics, just doing your best
(06:15):
to support them and get throughtheir emotional needs that go
up and down.
It's so interesting how youthink one might be easier than
the other, but it's justdifferent.
It's just a different kind ofpull, yeah definitely.
Susie (06:28):
I think you hit it right on the head.
I mean having little ones, it'sjust so physically draining.
But then when they get to beteens and now I have, they're in
their twenties the issues orthe problems that they're having
are real, like you know, realworld problems.
They can be make or break theiryou know their future in some
way.
So it's so mentally drainingand I think in some ways the
(06:52):
writing was a really good escapefor me.
I could like enter into mywriting and it was my little
world and I was just totally incharge of that little world that
I was writing about.
So that felt really good whenyou have teenagers and they're
just really out in the big world.
So I think that was a reallygood balance for me.
(07:14):
Yeah, who?
Camille (07:15):
wouldn't want to escape to a world of fairies and forts
.
I mean, yes, that's amazing.
My sister has always saidlittle kids, little problems,
big kids, bigger problems.
My sister has always said littlekids, little problems, big kids
, bigger problems.
So I think another takeawayhere from that as well is make
sure that you have a space foryourself that fills you up,
Because when you are giving andpouring into these amazing kids,
(07:36):
it's so nice to have a space.
In fact, my sister right now isgetting a doctorate.
I'm like girl, you are likeyou're amazing, You're like in
your 50s and you're doing this.
And she'm like girl, you arelike you're amazing, You're like
in your fifties and you'redoing this.
And she's like this part's fun.
For me, it's the life stuff.
That's hard, you know.
So I think that's that's aninteresting perspective.
Well, let's talk about your book, because it is so unique and we
(07:59):
will be sharing this on YouTubeas well.
So I understand that some ofyou cannot see, but I do want
you to hold up the physical book, because when you think of a
kid's book, sometimes you thinkof something that's really maybe
thin or, but yours is not.
It's like a thicker kids bookand the illustrations are so
darling.
I love it so much.
(08:20):
So tell our audience a littlebit more about I love that one,
about what it means this bookand how it came to be and what I
want to hear the creativepieces of it, but I also want to
hear the logistic pieces of it,like being a publisher and an
illustrator, and how.
How do you make it all cometogether?
So let's start with the funstuff first.
Susie (08:43):
Sure, yeah.
So Forest Magic for Kids isreally a book for families
together.
It's an activity book based onmy work as a naturalist, which
is all about teaching people ofall ages about the natural world
, kind of helping them formthese connections, and so much
of my work has been about thescience of nature, you know,
(09:05):
teaching kids about how toidentify a tree or families, how
do you go birdwatching.
But something that I reallyrecognize from working with kids
is that imaginative space thatnature gives people and kids in
particular.
And if you think back in yourown life like maybe you had a
secret fort or maybe you played,you know a game outside where
(09:26):
you were fairies or you werelooking for a secret treasure,
and I really wanted to write abook that celebrated that for
families and gave it kind of avalidation, like it is totally
okay In fact it is more thanokay for you as a family to be
spending time outside justreally playing in the
imaginative space of nature.
(09:47):
Nature is so unbound, it's gotno walls, so your brain, your
imagination and creativity canjust go very expansive.
And what's great about that is,as a parent, you don't have to
have any special knowledge, youdon't have to know the identity
of a tree or how to tell whatbirds are singing.
You just have to play with yourkids, and I'm a really big
(10:10):
advocate in my work forunstructured playtime.
I just think that our kids needit.
I actually think we need it asadults as well.
So Forest Magic for Kids isreally a book filled with lots
of activity ideas with littlebits of kind of mythology and
folklore tied in with science.
It's kind of a mixture of itall and for me that's kind of
(10:33):
the joy that I find in nature.
I love the science of naturebut I also love, like, the folk
tales of nature.
So that's what I did, and I justfeel so lucky that I was able
to write this from my experienceand there was somebody who
wanted to publish it.
Camille (10:49):
That's so fun.
I you know I.
What I love about nature, too,is that it's non-discriminatory.
It doesn't mind, it doesn'tmatter how much money you make.
It doesn't matter whatageriminatory it doesn't matter
how much money you make.
It doesn't matter what age youare.
It doesn't matter what you looklike.
There are healing properties innature of all different kinds
being around water, being in theforest, being in the sand,
(11:12):
being in a starry night.
You know there just is so muchnatural magic that I love that
your book is capturing forfamilies to enjoy together.
Susie (11:24):
I love.
I love what you just said too,because I think sometimes we
think about all the things wehave to give our kids.
You know, got to get them thebicycle, got to get them this,
got to get them that, and natureis just there and it's full of
loose parts for play.
You know you don't need a kidwas really inspired by reading.
So I think there's a great linkto literacy and literature, and
(12:02):
libraries are just full ofgreat books filled with little
animals having wild adventuresin nature, and kids love that.
That's why there's so manybooks like that.
Camille (12:13):
So yeah, I'm going to plug my podcast here, because I
have a podcast called fiveminute meditations for kids.
Many of you probably don't knowthat it's only six months old,
but a lot of my meditations thatI create for children are based
in nature, animals and even seacreatures.
(12:35):
Because there is, there is somuch play, and even see
creatures.
Because there is, there is somuch play, and that's my like
this.
I love this podcast becauseit's connecting with people's
purpose and passion, but for me,when I create for that podcast,
I'm like this is all about playLike I actually grew up, my
parents owned I don't know, theystill live there six acres and
(12:55):
I had no video games.
I literally was out playing withsticks and stones and trees and
barefoot and wild crazy acres.
And I had no video games.
I literally was out playingwith sticks and stones and trees
and barefoot and wild crazyhair.
I was the youngest of five andI sometimes look at those
pictures and go, wow, like that,that's crazy, like that girl
was unattended to.
I had the most magical, magicalchildhood.
(13:15):
So it's interesting to hear itfrom your perspective, where you
literally grew up in a city,like you're in Brooklyn, and
you're imagining these forestsand creating that within your
own mind.
What, what was it that made youlean to that?
Was it because you grew up in acity or like, what was the
magic?
Susie (13:34):
Yeah, I mean, I think for me the magic was really the
stories, Like I was prettyconvinced that I was going to
find fairies and gnomes and adoor to another world, like in
Narnia or something like that.
So I just had a really richdiet of great books and my mom
was a wonderful storyteller.
(13:55):
She would, you know, look up atthe stars.
Even in Brooklyn you can seethe stars, you know and she
would point out, like, make upstories about the stars.
And it just fed my imaginationand you know, I think we have
this idea as adults that naturehas to be really wild, like you
(14:15):
have to go someplace likeYosemite or Yellowstone to see
these like immense wild places.
But nature is everywhere, it isabsolutely everywhere.
From where I live in rural NewHampshire to where I grew up in
the city of Brooklyn, you canfind nature and I was like a kid
that would look in the cracksin the sidewalk.
(14:36):
I would like find the tree, theone tree on the block or, you
know, the bumblebee and theflowers on the in the parks.
And if you do live in a city,there's so many great parks and
and parks are really having aheyday and recognizing kind of
the power of being outside.
There's so much information nowabout how it's so good for us
(15:00):
physically and mentally.
It lowers our stress hormones,that's cortisol.
It increases our oxygen.
It actually increases ourvitamin D levels, exposure to
sunlight all of those things ourbody needs.
And there was just a studyabout how good it is for young
(15:20):
eyes to be outside, becausethey're looking close, they're
looking far, the sunlight isinteracting with their eyes and
it's really just very healthyfor us physically.
And then there's lots ofevidence about all the good
stuff it does for us ouremotional wellness.
You know, like you know as aparent, we know if you bring
(15:41):
your kids to the beach andthey're at the beach all day,
they sleep like nothing is evergoing to wake them up that night
.
So time outside, it's good forall of us and it's really great
when parents and kids can spendtime outside together.
Camille (15:55):
Yeah, I mean listening to you talking about this.
I feel like I need to put moreof an emphasis on doing this.
I think I was better with myfirst two being outside with
them more, because as my twoolder kids have gotten older,
they're more into their phonesor to the TV or video games or
whatever else, and I think I'vegotten lazy sometimes with
(16:18):
getting them outdoors as much.
And now it is finally, the sunis out.
I'm in Utah, so we're.
It snowed a bunch, like lastweek, no, no kidding.
And today's earth day, it's what?
April 22nd, yeah, and gosh it.
It just even being outside andseeing the budding flowers and
(16:38):
the trees and it's like, oh,there's so much joy that comes
just from being outside anddigging your hands into the
earth.
It's interesting because I justwas on a phone call with my
friend five minutes ago and Isaid what are you doing?
And she said, oh, I'm justoutside with my computer working
, just to feel the sunshine andit feels so good.
(17:00):
And I think that even those10-minute walks that we can do
or just getting our kids outsideit changes so much of our
perspective.
I would love to hear, becauseyou have done this for so many
years as a naturalist.
What are some stories maybethat you could share, of magic
that you've seen happen eitherfor adults, children, teenagers,
(17:23):
where you've helped open theireyes to the magic of nature and
how that changed their lives?
Susie (17:28):
Goodness, it's almost like an everyday thing for me.
I mean, I just spend a lot oftime with people of all ages in
the outdoors and really I thinkmy favorite thing to do with
kids and they're usually aboutsecond grade and up for this
activity is having a littlenature journal where kids can
(17:50):
kind of find a spot outside, sitdown and, like we do a census
of our senses.
So what do you see?
Three things.
You see three things, you hearthree things, you smell three
things.
You feel with your hands.
We usually skip the tasting partbecause that can be dangerous,
but really just having peoplereally tune into their senses,
(18:13):
that's so simple and it's sogreat.
You, you can do it on yourstoop, you know, at the front
steps of your house, you can doit.
If you um, if you're like myfamily, we do a lot of sports
you know you're at that, you'rewaiting for your kid to come up
to bat, you can take, look up atthe sky.
So just, I think, taking thosemoments to really just tune in
(18:35):
to your senses and do like whatam I seeing?
What am I smelling?
What am I hearing?
What am I seeing?
What am I smelling?
What am I hearing.
What am I feeling when I'm outhere?
How does the sun feel on me,what does the wind feel Like,
all of those things?
I think those are so simple andbasic but really like one of my
favorite things to do is get anold kitchen strainer and a
(18:55):
little container like a littlebucket or like a little dish tub
and go to a pond and you need alittle plastic spoon and dip
your strainer into the pond andI mean it's remarkable the
amazing things you can find in alittle strainer full of pond
water and I think for familiesit can be really eye opening.
(19:18):
There's so much of the worldout there that we don't even see
, but when we stop to noticeit's really makes you feel like
you're part of something bigger,Very meditative too, because
all of those things that youjust talked about are practices
that you do.
Camille (19:34):
If you're doing any kind of meditation practice
where, or if someone is startingto spin out like if they're
having an anxiety attack, or ifthey're doing any kind of
meditation practice where or ifsomeone is starting to spin out
like if they're having ananxiety attack or if they're
feeling anxious, being in likesocial situations, the first
thing they will say is what canyou see, what can you hear, what
do you feel, what is sensationson your skin?
And that brings you to apresent moment, which I think in
(19:55):
nature.
And that brings you to apresent moment which I think in
nature.
It's so much more, it feels somuch more natural to appreciate
those moments, because it's notlike temperature controlled and
you know, sounds of like the TVversus sounds of a bird and, oh
my gosh, is that a frog or wasthat a cricket, or what does
that?
mean you know.
So I think that there is, thereare so many layers there of
(20:18):
being in the present moment andcreating that awareness and that
presentness without the rush.
I feel like that is somethingthat is really where the magic
of nature brings us into,because the sounds of water like
listening to running water orlistening to the waves crash, or
listening to it's it's verymelodic, melodic, and then it's
(20:40):
also very meditative, like itreally is where we can kind of
get into a flow, where it's whatelse can do that?
Susie (20:48):
I know it's amazing and I think like, if you think back
in our ancient past, I mean welived a lot closer to the rhythm
of nature and I believe, Ifirmly believe that that's like
hardwired in us as humans and wefeel our best when we are
connected to the natural rhythmof the world and, like I loved
(21:09):
how you described the wavescoming in and out, it's almost
like a breath in itself.
It's like that noticing of thein and the out, you can kind of
feel your own breath coming intothe same rhythm as the ocean.
If you're near an ocean, Ithink you're really landlocked.
I have a little bit of ocean.
(21:30):
I think another kind ofextraordinarily simple and
magical thing to do is to laydown and look up.
You know whether it's lookingat the clouds and sharing with
your child, like what does thatcloud remind you of?
Watching it change?
Or, even better, if you can goout at night and look up at the
stars and again, even in mylittle tiny, tiny backyard in
(21:54):
Brooklyn we would bring out ourchairs and look up and you can
see the moon.
You know that gives you aperspective of a cosmic scale
that can be really thoughtprovoking and create kind of
like wonder and curiosity inyour family.
So I think those times arereally great too.
Camille (22:17):
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Okay, well, good, so that's thebook.
Gosh, we got really taken awaywith the creative side of things
.
Let's go into the logisticsside in terms of making your
(23:26):
book happen.
What are some first steps thatyou needed to get in place,
where you actually got apublisher.
That's not easy because a lotof people now are
self-publishing because of thecost and the commitments and you
know all of those agreements ofgetting someone believing in
the idea and then also you knowjust the bandwidth of getting it
(23:46):
produced and all of that.
Susie (23:50):
So please tell us what were the steps of that?
Well, first, this sounds sosilly, but the very first thing
I had to do was actually writepretty regularly.
So once I was like I'm going towrite, this is really what I've
always wanted to do, I justmade space in my life to pretty
much start a writing routinewhere I wrote like every day in
a little journal and I didn'tcare if it was like good writing
(24:12):
, I just wrote.
I just wrote like 10 minutes,five minutes Sometimes, when I
was waiting to pick my kids up,I would just write and you could
do it on your phone.
You know there's so many ways.
So making space for writing,that was really important.
And then I started to submitthings to different magazines,
like I'd get magazines and I'dkind of offer an idea.
(24:33):
So I think starting withmagazines was really helpful for
me because it increased myconfidence in myself.
Like you're writing a wholebook, it's a lot of work.
Yeah, you know that's hundredsof pages if you're writing a big
book, or you know thousands ofwords.
But if you're like writing anessay and it's at 800 words, you
(24:55):
know, and there's places whereyou could submit that to and
maybe somebody publishes it andyou get excited and you get kind
of your confidence.
So that was another thing I didwas starting to write for
magazines and I write.
I wrote for a magazine calledNorthern Woodlands.
These are more likenature-based.
I wrote essays.
My local newspaper I write acolumn in there Yankee Magazine,
(25:20):
taproot Magazine, a couple ofjournals.
So I just kept like submittingstuff and you got to have a
thick skin.
You get a lot of rejections andit makes you cry and I keep a
whole drawer.
It's like my tears but don'topen that drawer, but sometimes
(25:41):
I have to put stuff in there.
And then when I got an idea, Isubmitted a proposal to an agent
and I had some luck with that,but not great luck.
And actually Forest Magic forKids is my second book.
I have a book before thatcalled the Animal Adventurer's
(26:03):
Guide how to Prowl for Owls,make Snail Slime and Catch a
Frog Barehanded, and that bookwas all about.
It's a guidebook too forfamilies, about families
connecting with the localeveryday animals in their world.
So the agents got my book andshe sold it.
She was able to sell it to apublishing company, but the
(26:24):
publishing company wanted me torewrite it.
I had written it as a guide forparents.
So you write this whole bookand then it gets sent back to
you and they're like we want tobuy it, but can you rewrite it?
So it's for kids.
And I did.
I just, I had this rule in myhead that just said say yes to
everything, just say yes to it,like it might make your life
(26:46):
feel really hard and crazy, butjust say yes.
So I just I said yes, I rewroteit and then it became my first
book and the editor who workedon that book.
She changed publishingcompanies and when she got to a
new publishing company shecalled me up and said hey, you
have any ideas?
And that's when I pitched herthe forest magic idea.
(27:07):
So it's just a lot of work and alot of times, you know, you
don't feel like you're gettingaware and then all of a sudden
you get somewhere.
So don't give up, keep writing.
I worked, I had a writing group.
I joined four other women thatwe would share our writing tweet
with each other.
That was really helpful and Ijust kept.
(27:30):
I just sound so corny I can'teven believe I'm admitting this,
but I would.
When I walk my dogs at night,the last thing I would do is
find a star and I would wish onthe star and I would just be
like please, please, let me havea book, please, let me have a
book.
I just put it out to the world,out to the universe first, and
and it happened.
And now I have animal animal,the animal adventures guide,
(27:53):
forest magic for kids, and inSeptember I have my first
fiction book called book offairies, which is just over 30
different fairies that.
I started that book when I waseight, camille.
That was like my littlenotebook full of fairies that I
kept looking for and then Ifinally got to write it and it's
coming out and I hope peoplelove it.
Camille (28:14):
Oh, that's so fun.
Well, that will just be a fewmonths from when this episode
goes live, because it'll be afew months from today.
That's so exciting.
I know.
Susie (28:23):
It's so cute too.
Camille (28:25):
I'm sure the artwork is it the same?
Illustrator.
Susie (28:27):
Yeah, it's like a companion to Forest Magic and
even though it's like a fairybook, the idea behind it was
really encouraging kids to goout into nature and look for
fairies.
Camille (28:39):
So it's interesting there's a big, big influence of
fairy hunting in Ireland.
It's a big part of their, theirfables and of their lore Like
they talk about fairies a lotyeah we folk.
You need to make sure yourbooks are available there
because, yeah, there's a hugemarket for that.
Susie (29:00):
I feel a little worried.
I mean, the, the book offairies, is based on some fairy
mythology, mostly from easternand western Europe, and then my
own fairies from when I waseight and then just fairies that
I've heard kids talk about.
So it's sort of a mixture offolklore and kind of imagination
.
Yeah, that's creative folklore,I'll call it.
Camille (29:23):
Oh, I love that.
So, looking back, now thatyou're on this side of things,
when you're writing formagazines, do they pay you?
Was that something where, ifyou got it submitted and they
accepted, you would get paymentfor that?
Yes, yes, yes.
Susie (29:37):
But not always Like.
Sometimes I would just like thenewspaper.
They don't pay me.
I write a column, like everyfew months, I share it with
another friend of mine and wedon't get paid because the local
paper is barely keeping theirhead above water.
So, but yes, most magazineswill pay you if they take your
writing, and these are most ofmine have been print magazines,
(29:58):
not like online magazines, so Idon't know so much about that.
And did you?
Camille (30:03):
Google like who you should apply to with magazines.
Susie (30:07):
Yeah, yeah, I looked through magazines.
I spent a lot of time at thelibrary I'm a big fan of
libraries.
I I pitched plenty of thingsthat didn't get taken, but then
(30:33):
I was lucky.
I think, being a naturalist,somebody that is really
interested in the natural world,and I know I have, you know,
lots of experience and knowledgein it I kind of use that to be
my first writing point.
So I wrote what I really knew,and that's that is what they say
, right, what you know, yeah.
So that was really helpful andI mean, yeah, it's been great.
(30:58):
I still write for magazines andthis coming year I'm going to
be writing for the old farmersalmanac too, which is like a big
part of Yankee, it's part ofthe Yankee suite of things and
it's I'm excited about that too,so that's awesome.
Camille (31:12):
So then, as you're writing for these magazines,
that gives you more experience,exposure.
Do you think that also gave youa leg up in terms of like
getting a publisher wherethey're like, oh, she's been
published in these magazines andyou can show proof?
You know, have that experience?
Susie (31:30):
when you write nonfiction which is basically my first two
books have been nonfiction,which is basically my first two
books have been nonfiction youhave to submit a proposal and
the proposal will be kind oflike what your big idea is, a
very kind of detailed table ofcontents like this chapter is
going to be about this, and thenyou also have to write like why
(31:51):
you are the person to write thewrite this story, like why you.
And then they also want to knowwhere have you been published
before, and a lot of times theymight ask you to submit examples
of those things.
So I do think writing formagazines was really helpful for
me.
But you know, if you write, ifyou have a blog I think lots of
bloggers can, or influencers can, get kind of deals this way by
(32:17):
showing that they have afollowing and they ask that too,
like how many people follow youon Facebook?
How many are Instagram?
Are you on LinkedIn?
Like they want to know it all.
Camille (32:26):
So there and I I think there is more pressure for clout
of social proof if you'rewanting which is interesting
because that was never a thingbefore.
It was more kind of on thepublisher to do the distribution
, marketing, all those differentpieces where now I feel like
it's kind of the reverse, whereit's like okay, why should we
(32:48):
invest in you?
What kind of following do youhave?
Susie (32:51):
100%.
You are so on target on that.
And not only that, but a lot ofthe publishing companies in
years past.
I didn't experience thisbecause this is new for me, but
friends of mine who are writers,who've been writing for a long
time, they'll say something likewell, back 20 years ago the
publisher handled everything,they made all the connections,
(33:11):
they did all the connections,they did all like, they did all
the PR for you.
But that is not the caseanymore.
You, as a writer, have to bedoing your own, a lot of your
own PR.
I mean, they do some, but thenyou really have to sell your
book.
Camille (33:25):
Any advice about that, Like how cause I feel?
Susie (33:28):
like that piece.
Camille (33:29):
Not only do you have to be the creative and like the
the bit, the visionary of this,but now you have to be the
marketing person.
Like what are some bits ofadvice.
Susie (33:37):
You can give people for that Gosh.
I don't know if I'm so good togive advice because it is hard,
but you are though, becauseyou're doing it.
Camille (33:43):
It's hard, but like what have you done, that's
worked.
Susie (33:45):
Yeah, I mean I really think, well, I have a connection
in the natural, like the natureworld in England, so I use
those connections.
So I would just say, whateverconnections you have, I would
say, use those connections.
I have friends who are authorsso I would like ask them and
(34:08):
they made some connections forme, different bookstore
connections.
I was really fortunate becauseas part of my work as a
naturalist, I visit a lot oflibraries in my region and
libraries and librarians can bea huge market.
So if you get a good review anda librarian says this was the
(34:29):
best program, then all of asudden you're going to have a
million libraries kind ofcontacting you.
And I guess I should say too,like this is important for
people to know I have not beenable to make a living being a
writer.
I know there's people who do it, but I.
(34:51):
Yes, I mean you as a naturalistat the place that I work, at the
Harris Center for ConservationEducation.
But I have to keep that jobbecause writing is not a huge
moneymaker for me yet.
But maybe you're right, Camille, Maybe I will have that.
Maybe, if we talk, in a coupleof years I'll be like yes, I'm
just writing now.
Camille (35:09):
Well, here's what's really cool is that this dream
that you had, that started soyoung, is something that you've
been building and creatingauthority in the space, and
you've been building communityin the space and you've been
building vision of what it isthat you want to share.
So, the fact that you're like,okay, I'm ready to write, I
think you did it in the way youwere meant to because, really,
(35:30):
you established a big foundationof who you are.
Susie (35:34):
Yeah, I have to give a shout out to this time.
With this book I hired a PRfirm to help me because I was
like we spent all this time, allthis, like personal resource.
You give up a lot of things tostay home and write a book and
if it doesn't sell, like okay,you still wrote the book and
that feels great, but you wantit to sell.
(35:54):
So this this time around I waslike I think I need a little bit
of help to get the message ofmy book and what I'm talking
about out into the broader worldthan just New England.
Camille (36:06):
So I would recommend that to you, and that's how I
learned about you was an emailfrom your PR that reached out,
so yeah, and that's very commonfor authors to hire a PR firm.
Susie (36:16):
In fact, the PR firm that I use, mmp.
They specialize in just authors.
So you know, we think of PR asmaybe somebody who's got, you
know, a movie or some, anactress or an actor, whatever,
or yeah, but this is somebodywho specializes just in authors.
Camille (36:38):
Oh, that's awesome.
Well, I think, to wrap this allup, the clear message here is
that you're never too old, it'snever too late, that there are
pieces that you're putting inplace, that that dream within
you is going to happen If yougive it the nourishment it needs
, just like a seed in nature.
This you know.
It's the good soil, it's thatfoundation, it's the sunlight,
(36:59):
it's the water.
So, whoever is listening,you've made it to the end of
this episode, thank you, and Iwant you to take this as a
message to nourish that ideathat you have and to chase after
that dream, because there is areason why you're being called
to do the thing.
So, susie, thank you so muchfor sharing your story with us
today.
Susie (37:20):
Thank you, camille.
This was so much fun and I justagain.
I think you hit it right on thehead.
Just don't give up on thosedreams, keep pursuing them.
Camille (37:28):
Amazing and tell our audience where they can find
your books.
Susie (37:32):
Yes, so my books are all available through regular
bookstores like Amazon, yourindependent bookstores.
You can also visit my websiteat suziespicklecom and check
that out.
Some of my other writing frommagazines is on there.
Yeah, you can just go out andspread the word.
Everybody buy Forest Magic andkeep your eyes open for the Book
(37:53):
of Fairies coming out inSeptember.
Camille (37:56):
Oh perfect.
Well, again, thank you everyonefor tuning in and make sure you
check out 5-Minute Meditationsfor Kids.
It is an amazing resource forteachers, educators, parents,
coaches.
We have specific episodes thatare about overcoming anxiety,
building confidence, bedtimestories, meditations, mantras.
(38:16):
It is so good and it's socreative.
I think you will love it.
So check it out and thank youall for being here and we will
see you next time.
Hey CEOs, thank you so much forspending your time with me.
If you found this episodeinspiring or helpful, please let
me know in a comment.
In a five-star review, youcould have the chance of being a
featured review on an upcomingepisode.
(38:37):
Continue the conversation onInstagram at callmeCEOPodcast,
and remember you are the boss.
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