January 8, 2024 ā¢ 38 mins
Join us as we delve into the captivating world of adult entertainment with Cam Boy extraordinaire, Matty Stoner. Get an exclusive peek into his journey, the challenges, and the triumphs within the adult industry. Candid, raw, and insightful, this conversation explores the realities, misconceptions, and personal experiences of a thriving career in adult content creation.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Hey everyone, Thank you for coming to Cam Grill Diaries
Podcast. Today on the podcast we're doing
something a little bit different.
I have Matt. He's a former chatter bait Cam
boy as well as a porn star. Would we say if?
I'm qualified enough. How are you today?
I'm doing all right, yeah. Awesome.
So you generally just talk to Cam girls, so you think you
(00:30):
bring something a little bit different to the table, correct?
Yeah, I think that my perspective is a bit different
than most Cam girls. Yeah, being a Cam boy is is
significantly different. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I'm actually friends with a couple broadcasters and totally
different. Totally, Yeah.
So tell me, how did you get started into camming?
(00:53):
Interesting. I the first time I ever heard of
Chatterbait was whenever I used to be in a band.
Well, I used to be a drummer that was hired by bands to play
for them on their own tour. And this particular band was
like broke and as a joke they made, they were just like, what
if we all just got in the back of the van with a webcam, went
on chatterbait, just started jerking each other off to make
(01:14):
some money for a hotel and like,what the fuck is chatterbait?
And I'd never heard of it. And then they basically
explained to me what it was. Fast forward like, I don't know,
seven years or so. I'm married.
My wife is a doctor of physical therapy.
We're living on the West Coast after having only moved here for
(01:35):
like 2 months. I think if that and then I don't
know, like it was right before the pandemic, but it wasn't
because of the pandemic. It was just because we had moved
a bunch of times. Like we had moved from one place
in Connecticut to another and then from Connecticut to Oregon
and then from one place in Oregon to another.
And we had accumulated a lot of debt.
(01:56):
And as a joke I made on Facebook, I said like I Googled
how to sell an organ on the black market.
And I just copied the search results and put it on Facebook
as a joke. And I said desperate times call
for desperate measures, right? And then a friend of mine made a
comment and she said, don't do that.
You should go on chatter bait because my boyfriend and I made
(02:16):
like 50 bucks for him to stick his Dick in my armpit.
And I was like, all right, that sounds odd, but like, fucking,
I'm not here to shame anyone. I don't yuck anyone's young.
But like 50 bucks, I'll, I'll take 50 bucks and stick my Dick
in my girlfriend's, my wife's armpit.
So I brought it up to her and she was kind of like, I don't
know, I've never heard of this before.
(02:38):
And I was like, you know, we've,we've had about $10,000 in debt.
And I was like, you know, it's something that could be fun for
both of us to experiment with our sexuality.
We can spend more time together and we can make a few extra
bucks and maybe we'll pay off this like $10,000 debt in the
next year or so. And it won't be like looming
over us. And with that, she was like, all
(03:00):
right, sure, let's give it a try.
So we set up an account and didn't take us a year to to pay
off that 10 grand. It took us, I think, like maybe
two months. Yeah, it was much faster than we
thought. Yeah, that's real fast.
That's really good. Oh.
Yeah. Oh yeah.
And it didn't and it just didn'tstop.
So we just never stopped as well.
(03:20):
And and then she got laid off from her job during the pandemic
and we're just like full send. Let's go, let's do this.
And then, yeah. And the rest is history, Kind
of. That's awesome.
So you've been all over the place.
I used to Cam on a couples account and we did.
You'd make a lot more than single.
A lot more. It's it's really good.
(03:42):
So what do you like about camming?
Like, what's the best thing about Chatter Bate that you
liked when you were on there? Yeah, the bet immediately it was
like, full of, like, adrenaline and validation.
It felt like at the time at least it felt like, yeah, I
don't know, like I I, I will just say this like I have a
different perspective to chatterbait in the website now than I
(04:05):
did when I first started. But when I first started I was,
I was so excited, like I couldn't have been more excited
about something like, yeah, I don't know.
I just felt insane. Like the amount of money that we
were making felt insane. I felt like a celebrity.
Like immediately. I felt like we were just growing
and growing and we had regulars and yeah, I kind of feel like a
(04:27):
celebrity a little bit. And then you get like, and then
you get paid like really well ifyou're doing it well enough.
And and that just, like, gets you high because like, you're
literally, if you're doing it the way that me and my wife did,
you're literally like making money for fucking, you know what
I mean? And like, I don't know if you've
seen any of those, like, porn scenarios where they're just
(04:48):
like you like sex, you like money.
Well, why don't you give a fuck us.
And it's like it like that, thatis it's legit.
You know what I mean? Like, it's it literally, it's
like you're getting like a this double high because you're like
already getting all these chemicals released in your brain
from the sex. And then you're getting more
chemicals released in your brainfrom this, like from all the
applaud, you know? And then you're getting like
(05:10):
triple chemicals in your brain from like all this money, you
know, And then you're getting this, like Pavlovian response to
sounds and sights. And then and then your body
starts to like, create a Pavlovian response that you
don't even get to, like, controlanymore.
And so there's almost like without hearing that like Ding
(05:32):
dush sounds that you get from chatterbait, like you almost are
just like or like for what you know and that's starting to
happen. Yeah, the ultimate high.
Like, you can't go any higher than that, especially when the
money, I mean, I mean, that's perfect.
It really did you. Did you?
When you were doing that, did you ever, like, get desensitized
from, like, having like, sex offCam with your wife?
(05:54):
Yeah, it's funny that you say that.
The first, honestly, like, I felt desensitized.
Like immediately I had. It was within our first week of
camming and like me and my wife shared some like kind of kinky
fun things that I tried to like.Probably one of our first or it
(06:16):
wasn't our first but maybe our second or third stream.
And I tried to like kind of bring a little bit of our like
kinkiness onto stream and someone we we couldn't have even
had 1000 followers at the time. Like, we were so, so young and
whoever was in our room, no one in our room was cool yet, you
know, I mean, we didn't have like mods or anyone looking out
(06:37):
for us. It was just like freaking
nobodies. And I didn't know how to value
whose word, you know? I didn't know.
Like all the dark purple people,if they say something, go for
it. If the Gray people say
something, don't give a fuck. But nevertheless, someone said
they were just like EW hard passor like EW no.
And I felt like immediately. Just like ashamed.
(06:57):
I was just like, God, that eliminated it from our from our
sex lives period. I I never that would just like
crucified it on the spot dead forever.
I never brought it up or anything like after that.
I was just like it was gone. I.
Know, I know. I'll just scrub that out.
(07:18):
Let me try to fix that real quick.
Yeah, it's OK. You can fix your focus if you
need. To but I saw a new Logitech
camera. I fucking was so excited to buy
it. You know, it's great.
It's the C 920. It's one for streaming.
But if you're like head out of frame real quick like this and
then like pull it back maybe. I'm going to go see the app
because there's when you bought.When you buy one of these
cameras, they don't tell you there's a setting on it where
(07:39):
you have to like download an appand update it all the time.
It's really annoying. I know I I wanted to get did you
see that new, I don't know if you saw, but that new Lovins
webcam they have Have you seen that?
No, I didn't know Lovins had their own webcamming app now.
It's like 5 hundred $500 and it sits on top of your computer and
(07:59):
it it moves with you, it's AI, whatever.
So when you move, it moves with you.
It's great. Oh yeah, I know that there's a
bunch of people that make something like that, but I
didn't know Lovins was getting into that.
That's that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, it's really cool. I don't know a lot of girls that
use it yet. It looks pretty cool.
Oh yeah, but to to finish my thought on on that being
desensitized, like I I remember one of our first like fuck shows
(08:21):
or whatever that we did on chatter bait.
And I literally like couldn't get it up for my own wife.
Like, I I had to like we had to sit there and like watch porn.
Like I couldn't like fuck her. Like there was nothing she could
do to like get it was it was themost insane.
Like weird. And not that that's insane.
(08:43):
People can watch porn while theyfuck their partner all day long.
I don't care about that. That's fine.
That's and that's it kind of washot.
Not going to lie, but it was just shocking because it was
like, it felt like it was like, I don't know what to like it.
If we weren't live and we were just like hanging out, there
would have been no pressure to fuck.
But someone, just bunch of people just gave us a bunch of
(09:05):
money. So now all of a sudden we owe we
felt like we owed them however much dollars worth of our
intimacy. You know, it's like we have to
follow through. It almost felt like not that
maybe it just was our interpretation of the situation,
but it kind of felt like like a loan shark or like some kind of
(09:25):
thug that was just like I fucking gave you the money.
Now you give me that six, that's.
Crazy. Because yeah, that I can tell
you that's exactly the way I felt.
That's why me and my ex broke up.
We started the couple's account 1st and I couldn't fuck them
anymore. And he's like, it was getting
everything real weird and I couldn't do it anymore.
It was crazy. And you never, I never thought
happened, never. And ultimately in my
(09:46):
relationship, like I just couldn't.
I didn't look at the same anymore.
You know it's. I mean that's I don't know that
was that was probably easily arguably the first step to a lot
of things that got us to where we were.
But the last two years, let's say 2020, between 2021 and 2022,
my wife, ex-wife now at the time, I think between those two
(10:10):
years I think we had sex like 4 to 6 times maybe Max like I
like. I can remember 4 in two years.
It's crazy. And we started in our 2021 or
sorry, 2020. We started the account December
2019. We started camming January 2020.
So by January 2022, that was ourlast show.
(10:34):
Yep. And during our last year of
camming, we didn't do a whole lot of couples stuff like it.
It went from being just couples,just us, just the two of us.
And like I said, she was a practicing Dr. of physical
therapy at the time. So she would come home from work
and then she would shower while I was making dinner.
(10:55):
And while she was in the shower,she would be like kind of
warming up the crowd on chatter bait.
And then she would and then I would kind of join her and then
we would eat together on becauselike we had to eat you know we
didn't have a whole lot of time and so like and because she was
a doctor so she had to be up in the morning to work.
So like we would eat on camera. We would do a little bit of
(11:15):
this, a little bit of that go tobed.
She would have to wake up, work a nine hour day as a doctor come
home and do that again and and then whenever she got laid off,
I started doing. I started working at a pot shop
as a bud tender and our schedulebecame like the opposite then.
So like she would be at home during the day and she'd be like
(11:35):
warming up the crowd while I wasworking at this pot shop for
like 4 hours to six hours sometimes.
And she wouldn't be on the wholetime obviously.
So maybe like two or three hoursshe'd be on.
But then I would get home from work and I would join her after
she had been on for a little bit.
Kind of like getting things together.
But as we were going and going and going and we started to
(11:56):
realize like, OK, in the like 3 hours that you're on by
yourself, you make X amount of money.
And then on the three hours thatwe are on together, we make X
amount of money. But the amount of money that it
takes you to make, like it took her less time to make the same
amount of money by herself, you know what I mean?
(12:18):
So like if it took us like 4 hours to make 500 bucks
together, it would take her like2 hours to make 500 bucks by
herself. So we were like, if the name of
the game is exchanged as little time as possible for as much
money as possible, you should domore stuff by yourself.
And if people are seemingly losing interest in our couples
(12:38):
routine, which it kind of felt like they were, you know, like,
'cause we weren't trying to, like, go beyond what we liked to
do. Like we tried like anal and some
other things that we're just like, OK, we did it for the
money and we tried it and we cansay that it's not we're not into
it. But like, if we just did every,
if we were little sex monkeys for people, like, we probably
would have retained more people's interests or whatever.
(13:01):
But we just, we're like more like we're gonna do what we
like. Yeah, that's how it should be.
You know it should. You should.
Right, But then people inevitably will lose interest.
Yeah. They do or people or you have to
like get new people. And so that's why, you know, we
started working, we worked with Jack and Jill once.
They're this like Cam. I don't know they're they're
(13:24):
they're like a conveyor belt of just Cam girls.
They're just like they have like3 or 4 different girls every
weekend for the last like five or six years and.
How was that? It's so weird to, like talk
about it because like everythingwas my suggestion, you know, So
(13:44):
like, I and and I've talked to alot of people about this and
they're like, you can't like blame yourself or whatever.
But to an extent it's like she never heard the words chatter
bait until I brought it into ourhome.
She, per my suggestion, started doing stuff on her own.
You know, I was the one that said like, hey, check out this
couple. They have different people on
(14:06):
all the time. Maybe we can be one of those
people and we can make some moremoney working with them and
we'll make some more exposure working with them.
That'd be good for us. And so I was the one that
initiated that and suggested it,but it was shocking a little
bit. It was, I'm not gonna lie, I was
traumatized from working with them.
(14:29):
I don't know. I I I'm kind of the type of
person that would just take responsibility for everything
that I feel no matter what. Like if someone came and punched
me in the face, I'd probably be like, I deserve that.
Like, I probably like, used yourdishes without asking or
whatever. You know what I mean?
Like, and so I I I have a hard time like accepting that.
Like I I have a hard time just being like, oh, they probably
(14:52):
should have done that or they should have said that or they
should have done anything different.
I always look at those situations as like that's how I
would do something different. But it it was shocking and
traumatizing and I wasn't reallyprepared for it.
Aside from all the things that Iwish just went differently with
our like interactions, Seeing like 30,000 people in a chat
(15:12):
room. Pay you like, I don't know, I
think we made like 15 or 17 grand that weekend.
Like in a in a in in two streams.
We only did 2 streams and in twostreams we made like 17 grand.
And that amount of money was like it like, I'm I'm like
shaking right now, even talking about it, 'cause I'm just like
(15:33):
like it felt it felt like we gotaway with something that we
shouldn't have. And aside from all the morals
and things that I was taught as a kid that I felt like that,
whether or not I agree with it or dismiss all those things,
whatever. Like, aside from all that
imprint, you know what I mean, 'cause you're still imprinted,
whether or not you, like, agree with the morals that you're
taught as a kid. If you were religious, like I
(15:54):
was, might not agree with it to the to this day, but you still
are like imprinted, you know? Like you still have that feeling
of like, Oh my God, God is watching.
God hated this, you know, And you're like, your body still
holds that feeling of being likeI'm caught.
They know. I'm sorry, you know.
And so like, aside from all that, yeah, it was, yeah, it
was, it was weird. We, it was shocking to my wife.
(16:15):
And I remember we had like this like conversation.
We we got an Airbnb in Tahoe andthat's where we like, cammed
with them cuz they didn't want us to come to their house at
first. They would later invite us to
their house. So and this was also, it was
weird. Our first time camming with them
was my wife and I's anniversary,our wedding anniversary.
And people were like, wow, that's a weird way to spend it.
We're like, that's just the way we are.
(16:37):
And yeah, and then like, and then we did it again with them
on Valentine's Day the followingyear.
So like, it was like November ofone year we camped with them and
the following February we did Valentine's Day.
And that we did at their house. But yeah, I don't know.
It was if it felt it felt a bit weird.
(16:58):
And I remember having this feeling of feeling like this guy
like would probably fuck anyone.And whatever friendship that I
feel like I have with them as a couple would probably be traded
for any amount of money. And since my wife and I have
split, they have taken her to Hawaii and have fucked the
(17:22):
daylights out of her. So I wasn't wrong, you know.
Mustard Gus got instinct on that.
Yeah. So I was like, that was that
weird feeling I was getting around you.
It's that feeling of like, if anything ever happened between
my wife and I, you guys would just be like, cool, another
fucking cash app for us right here.
And I remember like trying to talk to them a little bit
(17:42):
afterwards when like when me andher were kind of splitting up
and just being like needing someone to talk to about
something like this. Because I don't have a lot of
friends that understand what it's like to be in a couple and
to be in this industry. And I thought that they were
really good friends that I couldbe like can we can I talk to
someone. And and they were kind of just
like, oh I want to get in the middle of it this, that.
(18:02):
And the other little did I know they were already like
networking with my wife to do a thing in Hawaii together.
So I'm like, oh, of course you don't want to get in the middle
of it when it means you know what I mean?
It's like you want to get in themiddle of it for money for you
know what I mean? Do you regret regret working
with them? Highly, yeah.
(18:23):
I would have. I would have, if I knew how I
would have felt afterwards. I would have never done it.
I remember like whenever we leftthe their house in Las Vegas
like I've just felt so like dirty and gross.
And like I I I really wanted us to just have like time to just
(18:43):
be cool and be people. Like I wanted us to just have
like a like I wanted us to sit in the hot tub just as friends
and not film anything. But of course, like they brought
the camera and the ring light and and we all ate mushrooms.
And so I felt a little less likeable to just kind of like say no
to things or like I didn't know how to like interpret things
that I was feeling and I was waymore like ushy goosey go with
(19:05):
the flow kind of thing And and that's when like you know, like
it it's it was so weird because like also the thing that me and
my wife wanted to do if we ever worked with other people, this
is what we said. We made a few deals with each
other right. The first one was no matter how
much money we make at this, it doesn't fucking matter.
No amount of money matters more than us.
This matters more. So if this starts to become
(19:27):
toxic to either of us, it's gone.
We we cut it with a with a freaking like salami sword.
It's done. You know what I mean?
And and if we're deep in it and we got all these like financial
dependencies, we figure out how to get out.
You know what I mean? We have to work hard and it
might take a little bit of time.If it takes us four years to
become dependent on it, it mighttake us four years to get out.
(19:47):
But that's what we do. And that was one of the deals we
made. And the other deal that we made
was that if we work with other people that we want to both have
the same experiences. So we don't do anything with
anyone that's not willing to do it with us.
So if and that and that's not tolike try to get other people to
compromise on their boundaries, it's just to say that's our
boundary. So if you're not willing to go
(20:07):
down on both of us, then you're not going to go down on either
of us. And if you're and if you're not
willing for both of us to go down on you and if both of us
don't, if, if, if either of us don't want to go down on you,
neither of us go down. You know what I mean?
It's like a mutual thing. It's like we are going to be one
person if we. Other people in a sense.
So you know what I mean. And that was kind of the deal
(20:27):
and was just never the deal withJack and Jill.
They they both went down on my wife, my wife went down on both
of them. Neither of them interacted with
me And and the first time we ever camped with them it was
like this like crazy experience because like we had this like
idea to kind of tease the audience and thinking we're
doing a swap where like Jill will be like kind of my lap and
(20:51):
Sarah will be at Jack's lab thatwas her.
I almost used her real name but whatever.
And so they that was gonna be like the case.
And then so like Sarah is at herat his lap and Jill's at mine.
And I just, like, didn't get hard immediately because like
I'm not kind of like, you know, like put it in soft.
(21:12):
It'll get hard in your mouth. Like it'll be it'll be fine.
But that's just not the way thatthey interact with Jack and
Jill. So that's not what she did.
She's like, you're not hard. I'm going over here to this guy.
And so now I'm just like sittinghere by myself while my wife and
his wife are both at his knees and and my heart was like.
Yeah, that's that's a lot. It was and and it was live.
It was the beginning of the stream that had to last like 45
(21:35):
minutes. And you're like, wow, It's just
like, that's not. Yeah.
And so, like, yeah, I don't know, like having that, having
that experience. Yeah.
I don't know. I just, I they they that kept
going where it was like they would do things with her that
they wouldn't do with me. And that night in the hot tub on
(21:55):
the mushrooms, that was the samekind of deal.
Like my wife, you know, went down on me, finished me off, and
then they both kind of, like went for Jack.
And I didn't feel like I could say no to certain things.
And so, like, it was just like, yeah, sure, of course.
It feels like you know. Yeah, yeah, she she was like,
can I taste his cum? And I was like, of course you
(22:16):
can, 'cause I felt like this is being recorded.
I can't make it be bad, you knowwhat I mean?
Because like this could be worthso much money if it goes well.
Yeah, exactly. Just say yes, it could make so
much money. And that just goes to show, too.
Like, with what you're telling, what I've been through, not as
much as you have with a couple thing, but when you go into
this, you don't think about thatat all.
(22:37):
You don't think about, you know,if you're going strong, you're
strong. You don't think anything's gonna
break you. But let me tell you, it does.
Just from hearing you like shit like that, it's it's crazy.
Did that really break you guys up after that point?
So that definitely got a spark going in my brain of just being
like, I don't know what to thinkor feel.
I remember that car ride home kind of being a little bit
awkward driving home driving to Portland from Vegas is long too.
(22:59):
So it was like kind of weird. And I didn't.
And I I was undiagnosed. BPD at the time and I I hadn't
received any treatment or diagnosis yet actually, I don't
think, I don't think I was diagnosed yet, certainly hadn't
received treatment and I didn't really know how to.
I didn't have the tools to just even say something.
Like I feel elevated right now and I don't have the words to
(23:25):
describe how I feel and I just want to do something that makes
me feel grounded or something like that.
You know what I mean? Like because because it's very
complex and everyone's feelings are very complex and you don't
have to. It's personality disorder.
Yeah, so I get that. Yeah.
So I was very much just like either shut down or attack or
(23:48):
just kind of bottle it up and like say that everything is okay
and then like internalize thingsand feel bad about it and then
say that this is what I deserve and this is what I want.
Like, because if I if all I wantis nothing that can hurt me,
then I won't feel this hurt right now.
So I'm gonna tell you that what I want is, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I do minimize the things that you think you want or need.
(24:09):
Because if you have less that can hurt you, then you won't
feel the things you're feeling right now.
And it's all about like being like, this is how I feel.
I don't want to feel it. Solution X Nay on the everything
day. Yeah, that's how it goes.
It really is. It really is.
So after that, you guys, you went home, How was it like, what
did you do next? Like were you still into getting
everything? Yeah.
So, yeah, we were still going atit.
(24:31):
We were still doing all the things it it was a weird
tapering thing. So like we after we left that
like we got, we ended up moving to this like big bougie, like
corner top floor waterfront apartment.
And it was gorgeous and amazing and it felt very luxurious and
like we had a lot of success andour expenses went up really
(24:55):
high. So we had become really
dependent on things. And it's really hard to say like
oh this is the thing that like made everything fall apart
because like honestly I I just feel like if I just never
brought it into our house, it never would have done anything.
But like it's it's crazy how like when how do I say this?
(25:17):
Like it was like the constant validation.
Or you could call it validation.I would call it like like a
fake. Like validation that you get
when you're camming from people who are just going to, like,
agree with you because they wantyou to feel.
They want to feel. Like if if if you're a Cam girl
and you're complaining about something and I and I say you're
(25:39):
right, fuck that shit, You're going to feel like you've got
people on your side and you're like, yeah, fuck that shit.
These are all the people in my corner, thousands of people who
agree with me. So I must be right and I deserve
this and that and and then they tell me what I deserve and they
give me things that I deserve and I put something on the wish
list and they get it for me. If I just say, like, I would
(26:00):
love to have this and they get it for me, it builds up the
sense of what you feel like you deserve.
It builds up the sense of of your value because you you
inflate your own value because you're like, oh, all I have to
do is this and people give me money for it.
And like, I remember even like my wife saying she did not want
to go back to work because afterthe pandemic was kind of
(26:21):
clearing up and they're asking people back, the clinic that she
worked at was like, we would like you back.
And she turned it down. She she said straight up that
she's like, I'm not getting paidwhat I'm worth.
You know, I I work harder than what I'm making.
And when she started becoming a doctor, she did not do it
because she was like, you know what?
I bet will happen? I bet that I'll get paid what
I'm worth. She didn't even have that.
(26:43):
That thought or like logic or idea of getting paid what you're
worth wasn't even in her head. She went down that road because
she didn't wanted to help peopleand she never wanted people to
feel the she felt. Yeah, and after being important
on Chatter Bate, it totally changed how she how she was.
Yeah. And so, like, it got, we got to
a point where we just couldn't have conversations about
anything. I couldn't talk to her about
(27:05):
something if it meant like I couldn't talk to her about my
feelings, if my feelings were negative about her, if I felt
like, oh, I feel like you shoulddo this thing.
No, it was not on the table. And I and again I was going
through, I got diagnosed with BPD in like 2021.
And I started going through treatment at the end of that
year and it was like, there was like, it felt like there's a
(27:27):
microscope on me like I was. There's so much focus on me and
my problems and on the issues that I'm bringing to the table
that are dysfunctional and and it felt so much like it was just
like, oh let's look into BPD andand it's a serious disorder and
people, some people who have it really bad or can be violent and
dangerous and and and abusive and and that wasn't the way that
(27:51):
I was. You know, like I was like
abusive towards myself. Like I used to cut myself when I
was a teenager and and then during our porn career I started
like bringing back some childhood like regression and
and aggressive behaviors. Like if we were in a
conversation and and she was felt like she wasn't listening I
would just like stomp and smash my hands.
(28:11):
And if like if I was I remember once I was holding a mug when I
did that and I slammed it on theground and it broke while we
were walking outside. And like I've like I've like
slammed my head into the ground and into walls trying to like
just be like you're not listening to me.
Like I I, like, couldn't like, take it, you know?
And like and I just be heard. And I couldn't just like, say,
like, I'm not saying you're bad.It it was almost like any time
(28:33):
that I was like, hey, like this thing you did or said, like hurt
my feelings. It was like she heard me say,
like, hey, listen, you're the worst person that's ever lived.
And that includes Genghis Khan and Adolf Hitler and Ted Bundy.
You're worse than all of them combined.
You deserve eternal death and damnation.
No one should talk to you or be your friend.
And we should just hang you naked and inside out from the
top of the building and project it onto the walls of every
(28:54):
living room in America and the world, the universe, and fuck
you forever. It's like, OK, that's not what I
said like, but like then it was just like open season for her to
talk about my feelings or her feelings of the things that I
was doing to make her upset. Right.
So kind of just turned everything around for you guys.
You never thought it'd go that way, Did you ever?
No, I I didn't. I I certainly didn't.
(29:17):
No. And that.
And that's a good thing to say to anybody that's listening as a
Cam girl or a couple. Like, you need to think about
that before you go into it, because it destroyed my
relationship as well. I couldn't, yeah, yeah, we
can't. We were on stream for only like
3 months though on chatter being.
We made bank every night and like I just couldn't look at him
in the same way anywhere. Like it totally changed
everything. And you're right about the money
thing. Like it totally like you.
(29:38):
Just like the Bing, Bing, Bing from the tokens, you know.
I wouldn't be surprised if she said that she couldn't look at
me the same way either. And if it, and probably for a
variety of reasons, I'm sure part of it was like, one of the
things that I was kind of getting at was that I was like,
I can't get your attention. I can't get from you what other
people can get from you because I don't have money to give you.
(29:59):
Like the money that we have is the money we make from this job.
And you are like you like don't want my I like can't get your
attention and and you'll take theirs because they'll give you
money if you give it to them. That's a problem.
That's the same thing that my exsaid to me.
Same. Yeah.
And and and literally, like, like, I remember there's once
(30:20):
where she was like, oh, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to be on until 11. And then like right around like
1050, she was like, I need, I need to do this private.
So I was going to do a private with me.
She was on a private for three hours after that, she was on
until like 1:00 in the morning. And she was like abusing her
body with a dildo and doing things that like she she fucking
(30:41):
gave herself BV like she she's she's done this like for like a
a year. Like it wasn't just like up one
and done, it was like for a yearand and like she would go into
these into these. So first of all, she was using
our common space, our living room, which was attached to our
kitchen, which meant that I couldn't really do anything in
there 'cause I had so much courtesy towards this career and
(31:05):
job that I was like, I don't wanna throw you off.
I don't want the users to have this weird experience.
I want the users to have the most authentic experience
possible so that they give you money and so that they like you
and so they like coming to this channel and they'll become
regulars. I want you to have AI wanted it
all to work out for everyone, right?
I had so much courtesy towards it.
But then I got to the point where I was like, OK, I can't be
(31:27):
in my kitchen or living room forhours.
And then when you're done, I have to clean up all these
lights and toys and lingerie andthen you're done with it.
You don't want to fuck me. You don't want to look at me
like that. You're done with it and I have
to like, clean up your sex mess.And it doesn't feel very good
for me. And then I have to lock myself
in another room and blast like TV in my headphones so I don't
(31:48):
have to hear it for hours. Or I just have to not be home
and be somewhere until you tell me you're done and I can come
home, which is very anxiety, youknow.
And so I got to the point where I was like, you got to do it in
the bedroom, at least do it in the bedroom so that I can, you
know, And and then I would and just keep me updated via text,
let me know if you're going to do a private.
(32:11):
Every now and then she would text me and tell me she's doing
a private. But sometimes she wouldn't tell
me that she's doing a private. And I and then she would just if
I wasn't home, she never would text me.
And I was like, you need to textme even if I'm not home, because
I want to know what the odds areof me coming home to it is.
And it was just like, oh, well, that impedes on my autonomy.
So, like, it's like I was crossing her boundaries by
(32:33):
asking her to like do certain things in order to make this
easier on me. Because I wasn't trying to be
this like little bitch boy of just like my wife is like
camming and I don't want other people to see you like that.
Like I wasn't trying to be that way.
And now that I think about that,I'm like, fuck that attitude.
First of all, like, I think people deserve to have something
(32:53):
sacred in their relationships. And I think that if your partner
wants to have parts of the relationship to be sacred and
you don't respect that or or or even agree, even if you're just
like, I don't think that's sacred.
So I don't want to do that. It's like I take a hard look at
who you're dating, who you're married to, and you know what I
(33:14):
mean? Like that's literally like I I
can't even compare it to anything because the audacity,
right, To be like I I I believe this part of our relationship to
be sacred and I want it to remain sacred or I want to bring
it back to somewhere more sacred.
And your response is like my boundaries first.
I don't think you deserve to be in a relationship with someone.
(33:35):
I think that you. I think that you deserve to have
the boundaries that you have andthat you then.
Wrong thing. Yeah, I totally understand that.
Yeah, 'cause like all the porn and stuff, it just pushed you to
the end, like made you feel likethe fucking odd man out, you
know? It wasn't good for you.
And a lot of times, like on camera, like when I was, when I
was like camming, there's so many times where people, like,
(33:57):
would just insult me or call me a scrub.
Or that often I was called a stunt cock because, oh, you're
just the stunt cock. And I'm like, OK.
And so like, even like, in real time, it's like, it does feel
very dismissive and alienating and being like, I don't feel
like I belong here. And there's nothing you as my
partner can say about that, because because it's like even
(34:19):
if my partner's sitting there going like, I think that you're
amazing and you do belong here, fuck them.
It's like your eyes are still glowing every single time
someone calls You Beautiful and tips you hundreds or what.
You know what I mean? Like as soon as you're they're
like, check your e-mail. I bought you something off your
wish list and you're like one ofthose it will take.
(34:41):
It would take like 100 times of you being like you know what?
Fuck them and fuck chatterbait slams the laptop shut, starts
making out with me on the couch and fucking the shit out of me
with no cameras on at all. It's like one of those, like a
hundred of those would cancel out.
Like 1 glowy look in your eyes of someone else online telling
you you're amazing, dropping yousome money and then you just
(35:03):
eating it up. Yeah, and that's the facade of
porn. It's like when you sit here and
you can and you get people are like, oh we want to do this, oh
we love you, we buy you this. It puts on so much false like
it's not your life, it becomes your life.
It really does become your life and you just everything that you
were were is no longer and last times.
It's hard for people to get thatback.
Yeah I I I'm I would be curious to see if there if it's possible
(35:26):
to get back. I I'm not for myself.
I'm actively trying really hard like when I stopped doing it, I
because I I I tried to bring it up to her, you know.
And I said we made that deal like if this toxic pull the
plug. I tried to bring that up and say
like this is starting to feel toxic to me and it's starting to
feel toxic to our relationship. And I didn't want to say it
(35:47):
because I knew it wouldn't be received well.
But I in my head I was also thinking and thirdly I think
it's toxic to you because I see how it's changing you and your
ability to like have a conversation with me like she
used to have. She used to be like, so, like, I
remember one of the first thingsthat she said, she was like,
scream crying this, like bawling.
(36:09):
Because it was at one of the first times I recommended us
working with someone or, like just talking about someone or
anything. And she was like, I'm afraid
that I'm not an I won't be enough for you and that you'll
leave me and I'll just be stuck here with all these men on
chatterbait. And she said that through tears
like that. It felt like a very, very honest
(36:30):
confession. It felt it that felt like the
most honest thing ever. That was the person that I
married was the person who was like, I don't want to be with
them. Like I I want.
I just want to be with you and Ijust want I'm and I love you,
you know, like that whole, like,call it clingy if you want to,
but like that feeling of being like, no, you make me secure.
(36:50):
There's a difference between being clingy into and clinging
to what is good and what you need and what is love and what
is true. And you know what I mean?
And. Yeah.
And it's like that grip of just being, like we got each other,
you know, when we got married, we did a hand fasting ceremony.
We held each other's hands, tiedour hands together and we walked
through the woods back to our car.
(37:11):
And that was how we got married.And that grip was the one that I
was like, oh, this is like, it'slike disappearing because you're
like, Oh, well, it felt like shedidn't respect me anymore
because it was like, if I had enough money on my, it was
almost like I needed to have my own income.
Yeah, it turned into that because she got just so caught
(37:31):
up in it and everybody did. It ends.
The thing of it is, it does end someday, and it sucks that some
people just get totally turned around and they're just not not
really anybody anymore. Yeah, yeah it it it it got it
got weird like when I stopped camming is whenever like I I
basically just kind of became a behind the scenes person and I
(37:52):
was helping her out with like editing and all this other stuff
and I considered it my full timejob dealing with the emotional
kickback from her full time job and I was like me processing
this and and allowing this to bea thing in our in our house is
my job. Hey, this is producer Gary.
(38:13):
Sorry for interrupting the interview.
Unfortunately, the rest of the audio got corrupted during
rendering, so there is no rest of the interview unfortunately.
So I'm really sorry about that. We will have Maddie back on to,
you know, discuss everything they were discussing.
So I I want to apologize. This is totally my fault, but
(38:37):
I'm not going to let this happenagain because this is absurd.
So again, I'm sorry about this and TuneIn, next week we got
someone on and Maddie will be back and Maddie, I apologize.
So hope you enjoyed the show andsee you next time.
Hey everyone, Thank you for coming to Cam Grill Diaries
Podcast. Today on the podcast we're doing
something a little bit different.
I have Matt. He's a former chatter bait Cam
boy as well as a porn star. Would we say if?
I'm qualified enough. How are you today?
I'm doing all right, yeah. Awesome.
So you generally just talk to Cam girls, so you think you
(00:30):
bring something a little bit different to the table, correct?
Yeah, I think that my perspective is a bit different
than most Cam girls. Yeah, being a Cam boy is is
significantly different. Yeah, yeah, definitely.
I'm actually friends with a couple broadcasters and totally
different. Totally, Yeah.
So tell me, how did you get started into camming?
(00:53):
Interesting. I the first time I ever heard of
Chatterbait was whenever I used to be in a band.
Well, I used to be a drummer that was hired by bands to play
for them on their own tour. And this particular band was
like broke and as a joke they made, they were just like, what
if we all just got in the back of the van with a webcam, went
on chatterbait, just started jerking each other off to make
(01:14):
some money for a hotel and like,what the fuck is chatterbait?
And I'd never heard of it. And then they basically
explained to me what it was. Fast forward like, I don't know,
seven years or so. I'm married.
My wife is a doctor of physical therapy.
We're living on the West Coast after having only moved here for
(01:35):
like 2 months. I think if that and then I don't
know, like it was right before the pandemic, but it wasn't
because of the pandemic. It was just because we had moved
a bunch of times. Like we had moved from one place
in Connecticut to another and then from Connecticut to Oregon
and then from one place in Oregon to another.
And we had accumulated a lot of debt.
(01:56):
And as a joke I made on Facebook, I said like I Googled
how to sell an organ on the black market.
And I just copied the search results and put it on Facebook
as a joke. And I said desperate times call
for desperate measures, right? And then a friend of mine made a
comment and she said, don't do that.
You should go on chatter bait because my boyfriend and I made
(02:16):
like 50 bucks for him to stick his Dick in my armpit.
And I was like, all right, that sounds odd, but like, fucking,
I'm not here to shame anyone. I don't yuck anyone's young.
But like 50 bucks, I'll, I'll take 50 bucks and stick my Dick
in my girlfriend's, my wife's armpit.
So I brought it up to her and she was kind of like, I don't
know, I've never heard of this before.
(02:38):
And I was like, you know, we've,we've had about $10,000 in debt.
And I was like, you know, it's something that could be fun for
both of us to experiment with our sexuality.
We can spend more time together and we can make a few extra
bucks and maybe we'll pay off this like $10,000 debt in the
next year or so. And it won't be like looming
over us. And with that, she was like, all
(03:00):
right, sure, let's give it a try.
So we set up an account and didn't take us a year to to pay
off that 10 grand. It took us, I think, like maybe
two months. Yeah, it was much faster than we
thought. Yeah, that's real fast.
That's really good. Oh.
Yeah. Oh yeah.
And it didn't and it just didn'tstop.
So we just never stopped as well.
(03:20):
And and then she got laid off from her job during the pandemic
and we're just like full send. Let's go, let's do this.
And then, yeah. And the rest is history, Kind
of. That's awesome.
So you've been all over the place.
I used to Cam on a couples account and we did.
You'd make a lot more than single.
A lot more. It's it's really good.
(03:42):
So what do you like about camming?
Like, what's the best thing about Chatter Bate that you
liked when you were on there? Yeah, the bet immediately it was
like, full of, like, adrenaline and validation.
It felt like at the time at least it felt like, yeah, I
don't know, like I I, I will just say this like I have a
different perspective to chatterbait in the website now than I
(04:05):
did when I first started. But when I first started I was,
I was so excited, like I couldn't have been more excited
about something like, yeah, I don't know.
I just felt insane. Like the amount of money that we
were making felt insane. I felt like a celebrity.
Like immediately. I felt like we were just growing
and growing and we had regulars and yeah, I kind of feel like a
(04:27):
celebrity a little bit. And then you get like, and then
you get paid like really well ifyou're doing it well enough.
And and that just, like, gets you high because like, you're
literally, if you're doing it the way that me and my wife did,
you're literally like making money for fucking, you know what
I mean? And like, I don't know if you've
seen any of those, like, porn scenarios where they're just
(04:48):
like you like sex, you like money.
Well, why don't you give a fuck us.
And it's like it like that, thatis it's legit.
You know what I mean? Like, it's it literally, it's
like you're getting like a this double high because you're like
already getting all these chemicals released in your brain
from the sex. And then you're getting more
chemicals released in your brainfrom this, like from all the
applaud, you know? And then you're getting like
(05:10):
triple chemicals in your brain from like all this money, you
know, And then you're getting this, like Pavlovian response to
sounds and sights. And then and then your body
starts to like, create a Pavlovian response that you
don't even get to, like, controlanymore.
And so there's almost like without hearing that like Ding
(05:32):
dush sounds that you get from chatterbait, like you almost are
just like or like for what you know and that's starting to
happen. Yeah, the ultimate high.
Like, you can't go any higher than that, especially when the
money, I mean, I mean, that's perfect.
It really did you. Did you?
When you were doing that, did you ever, like, get desensitized
from, like, having like, sex offCam with your wife?
(05:54):
Yeah, it's funny that you say that.
The first, honestly, like, I felt desensitized.
Like immediately I had. It was within our first week of
camming and like me and my wife shared some like kind of kinky
fun things that I tried to like.Probably one of our first or it
(06:16):
wasn't our first but maybe our second or third stream.
And I tried to like kind of bring a little bit of our like
kinkiness onto stream and someone we we couldn't have even
had 1000 followers at the time. Like, we were so, so young and
whoever was in our room, no one in our room was cool yet, you
know, I mean, we didn't have like mods or anyone looking out
(06:37):
for us. It was just like freaking
nobodies. And I didn't know how to value
whose word, you know? I didn't know.
Like all the dark purple people,if they say something, go for
it. If the Gray people say
something, don't give a fuck. But nevertheless, someone said
they were just like EW hard passor like EW no.
And I felt like immediately. Just like ashamed.
(06:57):
I was just like, God, that eliminated it from our from our
sex lives period. I I never that would just like
crucified it on the spot dead forever.
I never brought it up or anything like after that.
I was just like it was gone. I.
Know, I know. I'll just scrub that out.
(07:18):
Let me try to fix that real quick.
Yeah, it's OK. You can fix your focus if you
need. To but I saw a new Logitech
camera. I fucking was so excited to buy
it. You know, it's great.
It's the C 920. It's one for streaming.
But if you're like head out of frame real quick like this and
then like pull it back maybe. I'm going to go see the app
because there's when you bought.When you buy one of these
cameras, they don't tell you there's a setting on it where
(07:39):
you have to like download an appand update it all the time.
It's really annoying. I know I I wanted to get did you
see that new, I don't know if you saw, but that new Lovins
webcam they have Have you seen that?
No, I didn't know Lovins had their own webcamming app now.
It's like 5 hundred $500 and it sits on top of your computer and
(07:59):
it it moves with you, it's AI, whatever.
So when you move, it moves with you.
It's great. Oh yeah, I know that there's a
bunch of people that make something like that, but I
didn't know Lovins was getting into that.
That's that makes a lot of sense.
Yeah, it's really cool. I don't know a lot of girls that
use it yet. It looks pretty cool.
Oh yeah, but to to finish my thought on on that being
desensitized, like I I remember one of our first like fuck shows
(08:21):
or whatever that we did on chatter bait.
And I literally like couldn't get it up for my own wife.
Like, I I had to like we had to sit there and like watch porn.
Like I couldn't like fuck her. Like there was nothing she could
do to like get it was it was themost insane.
Like weird. And not that that's insane.
(08:43):
People can watch porn while theyfuck their partner all day long.
I don't care about that. That's fine.
That's and that's it kind of washot.
Not going to lie, but it was just shocking because it was
like, it felt like it was like, I don't know what to like it.
If we weren't live and we were just like hanging out, there
would have been no pressure to fuck.
But someone, just bunch of people just gave us a bunch of
(09:05):
money. So now all of a sudden we owe we
felt like we owed them however much dollars worth of our
intimacy. You know, it's like we have to
follow through. It almost felt like not that
maybe it just was our interpretation of the situation,
but it kind of felt like like a loan shark or like some kind of
(09:25):
thug that was just like I fucking gave you the money.
Now you give me that six, that's.
Crazy. Because yeah, that I can tell
you that's exactly the way I felt.
That's why me and my ex broke up.
We started the couple's account 1st and I couldn't fuck them
anymore. And he's like, it was getting
everything real weird and I couldn't do it anymore.
It was crazy. And you never, I never thought
happened, never. And ultimately in my
(09:46):
relationship, like I just couldn't.
I didn't look at the same anymore.
You know it's. I mean that's I don't know that
was that was probably easily arguably the first step to a lot
of things that got us to where we were.
But the last two years, let's say 2020, between 2021 and 2022,
my wife, ex-wife now at the time, I think between those two
(10:10):
years I think we had sex like 4 to 6 times maybe Max like I
like. I can remember 4 in two years.
It's crazy. And we started in our 2021 or
sorry, 2020. We started the account December
2019. We started camming January 2020.
So by January 2022, that was ourlast show.
(10:34):
Yep. And during our last year of
camming, we didn't do a whole lot of couples stuff like it.
It went from being just couples,just us, just the two of us.
And like I said, she was a practicing Dr. of physical
therapy at the time. So she would come home from work
and then she would shower while I was making dinner.
(10:55):
And while she was in the shower,she would be like kind of
warming up the crowd on chatter bait.
And then she would and then I would kind of join her and then
we would eat together on becauselike we had to eat you know we
didn't have a whole lot of time and so like and because she was
a doctor so she had to be up in the morning to work.
So like we would eat on camera. We would do a little bit of
(11:15):
this, a little bit of that go tobed.
She would have to wake up, work a nine hour day as a doctor come
home and do that again and and then whenever she got laid off,
I started doing. I started working at a pot shop
as a bud tender and our schedulebecame like the opposite then.
So like she would be at home during the day and she'd be like
(11:35):
warming up the crowd while I wasworking at this pot shop for
like 4 hours to six hours sometimes.
And she wouldn't be on the wholetime obviously.
So maybe like two or three hoursshe'd be on.
But then I would get home from work and I would join her after
she had been on for a little bit.
Kind of like getting things together.
But as we were going and going and going and we started to
(11:56):
realize like, OK, in the like 3 hours that you're on by
yourself, you make X amount of money.
And then on the three hours thatwe are on together, we make X
amount of money. But the amount of money that it
takes you to make, like it took her less time to make the same
amount of money by herself, you know what I mean?
(12:18):
So like if it took us like 4 hours to make 500 bucks
together, it would take her like2 hours to make 500 bucks by
herself. So we were like, if the name of
the game is exchanged as little time as possible for as much
money as possible, you should domore stuff by yourself.
And if people are seemingly losing interest in our couples
(12:38):
routine, which it kind of felt like they were, you know, like,
'cause we weren't trying to, like, go beyond what we liked to
do. Like we tried like anal and some
other things that we're just like, OK, we did it for the
money and we tried it and we cansay that it's not we're not into
it. But like, if we just did every,
if we were little sex monkeys for people, like, we probably
would have retained more people's interests or whatever.
(13:01):
But we just, we're like more like we're gonna do what we
like. Yeah, that's how it should be.
You know it should. You should.
Right, But then people inevitably will lose interest.
Yeah. They do or people or you have to
like get new people. And so that's why, you know, we
started working, we worked with Jack and Jill once.
They're this like Cam. I don't know they're they're
(13:24):
they're like a conveyor belt of just Cam girls.
They're just like they have like3 or 4 different girls every
weekend for the last like five or six years and.
How was that? It's so weird to, like talk
about it because like everythingwas my suggestion, you know, So
(13:44):
like, I and and I've talked to alot of people about this and
they're like, you can't like blame yourself or whatever.
But to an extent it's like she never heard the words chatter
bait until I brought it into ourhome.
She, per my suggestion, started doing stuff on her own.
You know, I was the one that said like, hey, check out this
couple. They have different people on
(14:06):
all the time. Maybe we can be one of those
people and we can make some moremoney working with them and
we'll make some more exposure working with them.
That'd be good for us. And so I was the one that
initiated that and suggested it,but it was shocking a little
bit. It was, I'm not gonna lie, I was
traumatized from working with them.
(14:29):
I don't know. I I I'm kind of the type of
person that would just take responsibility for everything
that I feel no matter what. Like if someone came and punched
me in the face, I'd probably be like, I deserve that.
Like, I probably like, used yourdishes without asking or
whatever. You know what I mean?
Like, and so I I I have a hard time like accepting that.
Like I I have a hard time just being like, oh, they probably
(14:52):
should have done that or they should have said that or they
should have done anything different.
I always look at those situations as like that's how I
would do something different. But it it was shocking and
traumatizing and I wasn't reallyprepared for it.
Aside from all the things that Iwish just went differently with
our like interactions, Seeing like 30,000 people in a chat
(15:12):
room. Pay you like, I don't know, I
think we made like 15 or 17 grand that weekend.
Like in a in a in in two streams.
We only did 2 streams and in twostreams we made like 17 grand.
And that amount of money was like it like, I'm I'm like
shaking right now, even talking about it, 'cause I'm just like
(15:33):
like it felt it felt like we gotaway with something that we
shouldn't have. And aside from all the morals
and things that I was taught as a kid that I felt like that,
whether or not I agree with it or dismiss all those things,
whatever. Like, aside from all that
imprint, you know what I mean, 'cause you're still imprinted,
whether or not you, like, agree with the morals that you're
taught as a kid. If you were religious, like I
(15:54):
was, might not agree with it to the to this day, but you still
are like imprinted, you know? Like you still have that feeling
of like, Oh my God, God is watching.
God hated this, you know, And you're like, your body still
holds that feeling of being likeI'm caught.
They know. I'm sorry, you know.
And so like, aside from all that, yeah, it was, yeah, it
was, it was weird. We, it was shocking to my wife.
(16:15):
And I remember we had like this like conversation.
We we got an Airbnb in Tahoe andthat's where we like, cammed
with them cuz they didn't want us to come to their house at
first. They would later invite us to
their house. So and this was also, it was
weird. Our first time camming with them
was my wife and I's anniversary,our wedding anniversary.
And people were like, wow, that's a weird way to spend it.
We're like, that's just the way we are.
(16:37):
And yeah, and then like, and then we did it again with them
on Valentine's Day the followingyear.
So like, it was like November ofone year we camped with them and
the following February we did Valentine's Day.
And that we did at their house. But yeah, I don't know.
It was if it felt it felt a bit weird.
(16:58):
And I remember having this feeling of feeling like this guy
like would probably fuck anyone.And whatever friendship that I
feel like I have with them as a couple would probably be traded
for any amount of money. And since my wife and I have
split, they have taken her to Hawaii and have fucked the
(17:22):
daylights out of her. So I wasn't wrong, you know.
Mustard Gus got instinct on that.
Yeah. So I was like, that was that
weird feeling I was getting around you.
It's that feeling of like, if anything ever happened between
my wife and I, you guys would just be like, cool, another
fucking cash app for us right here.
And I remember like trying to talk to them a little bit
(17:42):
afterwards when like when me andher were kind of splitting up
and just being like needing someone to talk to about
something like this. Because I don't have a lot of
friends that understand what it's like to be in a couple and
to be in this industry. And I thought that they were
really good friends that I couldbe like can we can I talk to
someone. And and they were kind of just
like, oh I want to get in the middle of it this, that.
(18:02):
And the other little did I know they were already like
networking with my wife to do a thing in Hawaii together.
So I'm like, oh, of course you don't want to get in the middle
of it when it means you know what I mean?
It's like you want to get in themiddle of it for money for you
know what I mean? Do you regret regret working
with them? Highly, yeah.
(18:23):
I would have. I would have, if I knew how I
would have felt afterwards. I would have never done it.
I remember like whenever we leftthe their house in Las Vegas
like I've just felt so like dirty and gross.
And like I I I really wanted us to just have like time to just
(18:43):
be cool and be people. Like I wanted us to just have
like a like I wanted us to sit in the hot tub just as friends
and not film anything. But of course, like they brought
the camera and the ring light and and we all ate mushrooms.
And so I felt a little less likeable to just kind of like say no
to things or like I didn't know how to like interpret things
that I was feeling and I was waymore like ushy goosey go with
(19:05):
the flow kind of thing And and that's when like you know, like
it it's it was so weird because like also the thing that me and
my wife wanted to do if we ever worked with other people, this
is what we said. We made a few deals with each
other right. The first one was no matter how
much money we make at this, it doesn't fucking matter.
No amount of money matters more than us.
This matters more. So if this starts to become
(19:27):
toxic to either of us, it's gone.
We we cut it with a with a freaking like salami sword.
It's done. You know what I mean?
And and if we're deep in it and we got all these like financial
dependencies, we figure out how to get out.
You know what I mean? We have to work hard and it
might take a little bit of time.If it takes us four years to
become dependent on it, it mighttake us four years to get out.
(19:47):
But that's what we do. And that was one of the deals we
made. And the other deal that we made
was that if we work with other people that we want to both have
the same experiences. So we don't do anything with
anyone that's not willing to do it with us.
So if and that and that's not tolike try to get other people to
compromise on their boundaries, it's just to say that's our
boundary. So if you're not willing to go
(20:07):
down on both of us, then you're not going to go down on either
of us. And if you're and if you're not
willing for both of us to go down on you and if both of us
don't, if, if, if either of us don't want to go down on you,
neither of us go down. You know what I mean?
It's like a mutual thing. It's like we are going to be one
person if we. Other people in a sense.
So you know what I mean. And that was kind of the deal
(20:27):
and was just never the deal withJack and Jill.
They they both went down on my wife, my wife went down on both
of them. Neither of them interacted with
me And and the first time we ever camped with them it was
like this like crazy experience because like we had this like
idea to kind of tease the audience and thinking we're
doing a swap where like Jill will be like kind of my lap and
(20:51):
Sarah will be at Jack's lab thatwas her.
I almost used her real name but whatever.
And so they that was gonna be like the case.
And then so like Sarah is at herat his lap and Jill's at mine.
And I just, like, didn't get hard immediately because like
I'm not kind of like, you know, like put it in soft.
(21:12):
It'll get hard in your mouth. Like it'll be it'll be fine.
But that's just not the way thatthey interact with Jack and
Jill. So that's not what she did.
She's like, you're not hard. I'm going over here to this guy.
And so now I'm just like sittinghere by myself while my wife and
his wife are both at his knees and and my heart was like.
Yeah, that's that's a lot. It was and and it was live.
It was the beginning of the stream that had to last like 45
(21:35):
minutes. And you're like, wow, It's just
like, that's not. Yeah.
And so, like, yeah, I don't know, like having that, having
that experience. Yeah.
I don't know. I just, I they they that kept
going where it was like they would do things with her that
they wouldn't do with me. And that night in the hot tub on
(21:55):
the mushrooms, that was the samekind of deal.
Like my wife, you know, went down on me, finished me off, and
then they both kind of, like went for Jack.
And I didn't feel like I could say no to certain things.
And so, like, it was just like, yeah, sure, of course.
It feels like you know. Yeah, yeah, she she was like,
can I taste his cum? And I was like, of course you
(22:16):
can, 'cause I felt like this is being recorded.
I can't make it be bad, you knowwhat I mean?
Because like this could be worthso much money if it goes well.
Yeah, exactly. Just say yes, it could make so
much money. And that just goes to show, too.
Like, with what you're telling, what I've been through, not as
much as you have with a couple thing, but when you go into
this, you don't think about thatat all.
(22:37):
You don't think about, you know,if you're going strong, you're
strong. You don't think anything's gonna
break you. But let me tell you, it does.
Just from hearing you like shit like that, it's it's crazy.
Did that really break you guys up after that point?
So that definitely got a spark going in my brain of just being
like, I don't know what to thinkor feel.
I remember that car ride home kind of being a little bit
awkward driving home driving to Portland from Vegas is long too.
(22:59):
So it was like kind of weird. And I didn't.
And I I was undiagnosed. BPD at the time and I I hadn't
received any treatment or diagnosis yet actually, I don't
think, I don't think I was diagnosed yet, certainly hadn't
received treatment and I didn't really know how to.
I didn't have the tools to just even say something.
Like I feel elevated right now and I don't have the words to
(23:25):
describe how I feel and I just want to do something that makes
me feel grounded or something like that.
You know what I mean? Like because because it's very
complex and everyone's feelings are very complex and you don't
have to. It's personality disorder.
Yeah, so I get that. Yeah.
So I was very much just like either shut down or attack or
(23:48):
just kind of bottle it up and like say that everything is okay
and then like internalize thingsand feel bad about it and then
say that this is what I deserve and this is what I want.
Like, because if I if all I wantis nothing that can hurt me,
then I won't feel this hurt right now.
So I'm gonna tell you that what I want is, you know what I mean?
Yeah, I do minimize the things that you think you want or need.
(24:09):
Because if you have less that can hurt you, then you won't
feel the things you're feeling right now.
And it's all about like being like, this is how I feel.
I don't want to feel it. Solution X Nay on the everything
day. Yeah, that's how it goes.
It really is. It really is.
So after that, you guys, you went home, How was it like, what
did you do next? Like were you still into getting
everything? Yeah.
So, yeah, we were still going atit.
(24:31):
We were still doing all the things it it was a weird
tapering thing. So like we after we left that
like we got, we ended up moving to this like big bougie, like
corner top floor waterfront apartment.
And it was gorgeous and amazing and it felt very luxurious and
like we had a lot of success andour expenses went up really
(24:55):
high. So we had become really
dependent on things. And it's really hard to say like
oh this is the thing that like made everything fall apart
because like honestly I I just feel like if I just never
brought it into our house, it never would have done anything.
But like it's it's crazy how like when how do I say this?
(25:17):
Like it was like the constant validation.
Or you could call it validation.I would call it like like a
fake. Like validation that you get
when you're camming from people who are just going to, like,
agree with you because they wantyou to feel.
They want to feel. Like if if if you're a Cam girl
and you're complaining about something and I and I say you're
(25:39):
right, fuck that shit, You're going to feel like you've got
people on your side and you're like, yeah, fuck that shit.
These are all the people in my corner, thousands of people who
agree with me. So I must be right and I deserve
this and that and and then they tell me what I deserve and they
give me things that I deserve and I put something on the wish
list and they get it for me. If I just say, like, I would
(26:00):
love to have this and they get it for me, it builds up the
sense of what you feel like you deserve.
It builds up the sense of of your value because you you
inflate your own value because you're like, oh, all I have to
do is this and people give me money for it.
And like, I remember even like my wife saying she did not want
to go back to work because afterthe pandemic was kind of
(26:21):
clearing up and they're asking people back, the clinic that she
worked at was like, we would like you back.
And she turned it down. She she said straight up that
she's like, I'm not getting paidwhat I'm worth.
You know, I I work harder than what I'm making.
And when she started becoming a doctor, she did not do it
because she was like, you know what?
I bet will happen? I bet that I'll get paid what
I'm worth. She didn't even have that.
(26:43):
That thought or like logic or idea of getting paid what you're
worth wasn't even in her head. She went down that road because
she didn't wanted to help peopleand she never wanted people to
feel the she felt. Yeah, and after being important
on Chatter Bate, it totally changed how she how she was.
Yeah. And so, like, it got, we got to
a point where we just couldn't have conversations about
anything. I couldn't talk to her about
(27:05):
something if it meant like I couldn't talk to her about my
feelings, if my feelings were negative about her, if I felt
like, oh, I feel like you shoulddo this thing.
No, it was not on the table. And I and again I was going
through, I got diagnosed with BPD in like 2021.
And I started going through treatment at the end of that
year and it was like, there was like, it felt like there's a
(27:27):
microscope on me like I was. There's so much focus on me and
my problems and on the issues that I'm bringing to the table
that are dysfunctional and and it felt so much like it was just
like, oh let's look into BPD andand it's a serious disorder and
people, some people who have it really bad or can be violent and
dangerous and and and abusive and and that wasn't the way that
(27:51):
I was. You know, like I was like
abusive towards myself. Like I used to cut myself when I
was a teenager and and then during our porn career I started
like bringing back some childhood like regression and
and aggressive behaviors. Like if we were in a
conversation and and she was felt like she wasn't listening I
would just like stomp and smash my hands.
(28:11):
And if like if I was I remember once I was holding a mug when I
did that and I slammed it on theground and it broke while we
were walking outside. And like I've like I've like
slammed my head into the ground and into walls trying to like
just be like you're not listening to me.
Like I I, like, couldn't like, take it, you know?
And like and I just be heard. And I couldn't just like, say,
like, I'm not saying you're bad.It it was almost like any time
(28:33):
that I was like, hey, like this thing you did or said, like hurt
my feelings. It was like she heard me say,
like, hey, listen, you're the worst person that's ever lived.
And that includes Genghis Khan and Adolf Hitler and Ted Bundy.
You're worse than all of them combined.
You deserve eternal death and damnation.
No one should talk to you or be your friend.
And we should just hang you naked and inside out from the
top of the building and project it onto the walls of every
(28:54):
living room in America and the world, the universe, and fuck
you forever. It's like, OK, that's not what I
said like, but like then it was just like open season for her to
talk about my feelings or her feelings of the things that I
was doing to make her upset. Right.
So kind of just turned everything around for you guys.
You never thought it'd go that way, Did you ever?
No, I I didn't. I I certainly didn't.
(29:17):
No. And that.
And that's a good thing to say to anybody that's listening as a
Cam girl or a couple. Like, you need to think about
that before you go into it, because it destroyed my
relationship as well. I couldn't, yeah, yeah, we
can't. We were on stream for only like
3 months though on chatter being.
We made bank every night and like I just couldn't look at him
in the same way anywhere. Like it totally changed
everything. And you're right about the money
thing. Like it totally like you.
(29:38):
Just like the Bing, Bing, Bing from the tokens, you know.
I wouldn't be surprised if she said that she couldn't look at
me the same way either. And if it, and probably for a
variety of reasons, I'm sure part of it was like, one of the
things that I was kind of getting at was that I was like,
I can't get your attention. I can't get from you what other
people can get from you because I don't have money to give you.
(29:59):
Like the money that we have is the money we make from this job.
And you are like you like don't want my I like can't get your
attention and and you'll take theirs because they'll give you
money if you give it to them. That's a problem.
That's the same thing that my exsaid to me.
Same. Yeah.
And and and literally, like, like, I remember there's once
(30:20):
where she was like, oh, I'm going to do this.
I'm going to be on until 11. And then like right around like
1050, she was like, I need, I need to do this private.
So I was going to do a private with me.
She was on a private for three hours after that, she was on
until like 1:00 in the morning. And she was like abusing her
body with a dildo and doing things that like she she fucking
(30:41):
gave herself BV like she she's she's done this like for like a
a year. Like it wasn't just like up one
and done, it was like for a yearand and like she would go into
these into these. So first of all, she was using
our common space, our living room, which was attached to our
kitchen, which meant that I couldn't really do anything in
there 'cause I had so much courtesy towards this career and
(31:05):
job that I was like, I don't wanna throw you off.
I don't want the users to have this weird experience.
I want the users to have the most authentic experience
possible so that they give you money and so that they like you
and so they like coming to this channel and they'll become
regulars. I want you to have AI wanted it
all to work out for everyone, right?
I had so much courtesy towards it.
But then I got to the point where I was like, OK, I can't be
(31:27):
in my kitchen or living room forhours.
And then when you're done, I have to clean up all these
lights and toys and lingerie andthen you're done with it.
You don't want to fuck me. You don't want to look at me
like that. You're done with it and I have
to like, clean up your sex mess.And it doesn't feel very good
for me. And then I have to lock myself
in another room and blast like TV in my headphones so I don't
(31:48):
have to hear it for hours. Or I just have to not be home
and be somewhere until you tell me you're done and I can come
home, which is very anxiety, youknow.
And so I got to the point where I was like, you got to do it in
the bedroom, at least do it in the bedroom so that I can, you
know, And and then I would and just keep me updated via text,
let me know if you're going to do a private.
(32:11):
Every now and then she would text me and tell me she's doing
a private. But sometimes she wouldn't tell
me that she's doing a private. And I and then she would just if
I wasn't home, she never would text me.
And I was like, you need to textme even if I'm not home, because
I want to know what the odds areof me coming home to it is.
And it was just like, oh, well, that impedes on my autonomy.
So, like, it's like I was crossing her boundaries by
(32:33):
asking her to like do certain things in order to make this
easier on me. Because I wasn't trying to be
this like little bitch boy of just like my wife is like
camming and I don't want other people to see you like that.
Like I wasn't trying to be that way.
And now that I think about that,I'm like, fuck that attitude.
First of all, like, I think people deserve to have something
(32:53):
sacred in their relationships. And I think that if your partner
wants to have parts of the relationship to be sacred and
you don't respect that or or or even agree, even if you're just
like, I don't think that's sacred.
So I don't want to do that. It's like I take a hard look at
who you're dating, who you're married to, and you know what I
(33:14):
mean? Like that's literally like I I
can't even compare it to anything because the audacity,
right, To be like I I I believe this part of our relationship to
be sacred and I want it to remain sacred or I want to bring
it back to somewhere more sacred.
And your response is like my boundaries first.
I don't think you deserve to be in a relationship with someone.
(33:35):
I think that you. I think that you deserve to have
the boundaries that you have andthat you then.
Wrong thing. Yeah, I totally understand that.
Yeah, 'cause like all the porn and stuff, it just pushed you to
the end, like made you feel likethe fucking odd man out, you
know? It wasn't good for you.
And a lot of times, like on camera, like when I was, when I
was like camming, there's so many times where people, like,
(33:57):
would just insult me or call me a scrub.
Or that often I was called a stunt cock because, oh, you're
just the stunt cock. And I'm like, OK.
And so like, even like, in real time, it's like, it does feel
very dismissive and alienating and being like, I don't feel
like I belong here. And there's nothing you as my
partner can say about that, because because it's like even
(34:19):
if my partner's sitting there going like, I think that you're
amazing and you do belong here, fuck them.
It's like your eyes are still glowing every single time
someone calls You Beautiful and tips you hundreds or what.
You know what I mean? Like as soon as you're they're
like, check your e-mail. I bought you something off your
wish list and you're like one ofthose it will take.
(34:41):
It would take like 100 times of you being like you know what?
Fuck them and fuck chatterbait slams the laptop shut, starts
making out with me on the couch and fucking the shit out of me
with no cameras on at all. It's like one of those, like a
hundred of those would cancel out.
Like 1 glowy look in your eyes of someone else online telling
you you're amazing, dropping yousome money and then you just
(35:03):
eating it up. Yeah, and that's the facade of
porn. It's like when you sit here and
you can and you get people are like, oh we want to do this, oh
we love you, we buy you this. It puts on so much false like
it's not your life, it becomes your life.
It really does become your life and you just everything that you
were were is no longer and last times.
It's hard for people to get thatback.
Yeah I I I'm I would be curious to see if there if it's possible
(35:26):
to get back. I I'm not for myself.
I'm actively trying really hard like when I stopped doing it, I
because I I I tried to bring it up to her, you know.
And I said we made that deal like if this toxic pull the
plug. I tried to bring that up and say
like this is starting to feel toxic to me and it's starting to
feel toxic to our relationship. And I didn't want to say it
(35:47):
because I knew it wouldn't be received well.
But I in my head I was also thinking and thirdly I think
it's toxic to you because I see how it's changing you and your
ability to like have a conversation with me like she
used to have. She used to be like, so, like, I
remember one of the first thingsthat she said, she was like,
scream crying this, like bawling.
(36:09):
Because it was at one of the first times I recommended us
working with someone or, like just talking about someone or
anything. And she was like, I'm afraid
that I'm not an I won't be enough for you and that you'll
leave me and I'll just be stuck here with all these men on
chatterbait. And she said that through tears
like that. It felt like a very, very honest
(36:30):
confession. It felt it that felt like the
most honest thing ever. That was the person that I
married was the person who was like, I don't want to be with
them. Like I I want.
I just want to be with you and Ijust want I'm and I love you,
you know, like that whole, like,call it clingy if you want to,
but like that feeling of being like, no, you make me secure.
(36:50):
There's a difference between being clingy into and clinging
to what is good and what you need and what is love and what
is true. And you know what I mean?
And. Yeah.
And it's like that grip of just being, like we got each other,
you know, when we got married, we did a hand fasting ceremony.
We held each other's hands, tiedour hands together and we walked
through the woods back to our car.
(37:11):
And that was how we got married.And that grip was the one that I
was like, oh, this is like, it'slike disappearing because you're
like, Oh, well, it felt like shedidn't respect me anymore
because it was like, if I had enough money on my, it was
almost like I needed to have my own income.
Yeah, it turned into that because she got just so caught
(37:31):
up in it and everybody did. It ends.
The thing of it is, it does end someday, and it sucks that some
people just get totally turned around and they're just not not
really anybody anymore. Yeah, yeah it it it it got it
got weird like when I stopped camming is whenever like I I
basically just kind of became a behind the scenes person and I
(37:52):
was helping her out with like editing and all this other stuff
and I considered it my full timejob dealing with the emotional
kickback from her full time job and I was like me processing
this and and allowing this to bea thing in our in our house is
my job. Hey, this is producer Gary.
(38:13):
Sorry for interrupting the interview.
Unfortunately, the rest of the audio got corrupted during
rendering, so there is no rest of the interview unfortunately.
So I'm really sorry about that. We will have Maddie back on to,
you know, discuss everything they were discussing.
So I I want to apologize. This is totally my fault, but
(38:37):
I'm not going to let this happenagain because this is absurd.
So again, I'm sorry about this and TuneIn, next week we got
someone on and Maddie will be back and Maddie, I apologize.
So hope you enjoyed the show andsee you next time.
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