Beyond Labels: Bob Peck's Journey from Child Comedian to Mystic Philosopher—Integration, Awakening, and the Importance of Spiritual Humor

In this insightful episode of the Can We Start Over podcast, hosts Brit and Lindsey engage in a captivating conversation with Bob Peck, the brilliant author of "Original Sin is a Lie."

Bob shares his unique perspective on spirituality and religion, discussing topics such as mystic philosophy, practical spirituality, and the teachings of various wisdom traditions. He emphasizes the importance of embracing a label-less approach and recognizing that all paths can lead to the same truth.

Bob Peck is a festival award-winning filmmaker, author, lawnmower, meditator, and a spiritual student of Christ, Krishna, the Buddha, and Yogananda.  He’s also a Kriya Yoga practitioner through KYI and a certified mindfulness & meditation teacher. 

Key Takeaways:

1. Holistic Spirituality: Bob's exploration spans mystic philosophy, practical spirituality, and teachings from various wisdom traditions, transcending traditional boundaries.
2. Humor as a Connector: Learn how Bob seamlessly integrates humor into his work.
3. Embrace All Aspects: Bob's diverse background informs his perspective. He emphasizes embracing every facet of ourselves, transcending single labels or belief systems.
4. Alternative Perspectives: Gain insights into different spiritual paths and challenge traditional views on religion. Bob's book, "Original Sin is a Lie," prompts listeners to question and reevaluate their beliefs beyond traditional dogma.

To delve deeper into Bob Peck's wisdom and humor, follow him on Instagram and TikTok and visit his website OriginalSinIsALie.com.

GIVEAWAY -- Psst... want to snag a copy of Bob Peck's book, "Original Sin is a Lie"? Head to our Apple Podcasts page, leave a quick review and shoot us an Instagram message or email saying "giveaway" to enter. We'll announce a winner on November 30th. 

CONNECT WITH US!
We'd love to hear from you! What do you want to hear more about? What do you love? Have a topic request or a guest suggestion? Send us a DM on Instagram.

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Somatic Healing with Lindsey

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Episode Transcript

Britt (00:14):
Hello and welcome to the Can We Start Over podcast.
My name is Brit.

Lindsey (00:17):
And my name is Lindsay.
And we

Britt (00:19):
are a couple of people with three children who sold
everything, everything, one yearago to travel the world and
figure out where we want tolive.
And along the way, we've beentalking to other people who have
started over in big ways aswell.
Would you say that's accurate,Lindsay?

Lindsey (00:34):
That's, I'll, I'll deem it accurate.
Fantastic.
And we bring it all to you, thelistener.
So we're glad you're here.
Thanks for listening.
If you haven't listened before,welcome.
You're in for a treat.
Maybe, maybe you're alreadyrunning for the hills.
What's new with you, Britt?

Britt (00:51):
Well, I'm just navigating the world of freelance work.
Fun.
Producing podcasts.
And I like it.
Each one is different.
So it's a, an interestingdynamic to go from something
really loose to something veryprofessional.
Having to learn how to writeemails to doctors and, like,
famous doctors, so they have tobe, like, extra formal.

(01:13):
So, yeah, I'm navigating that.
Famous doctor, Doogie Howser.
I'm going to go ahead and spillit.
Doogie Howser is on one ofthese.
Doogie Howger.
You've never heard

Lindsey (01:22):
of him, but he's famous.
But that's, like, the world ofbeing a producer, right?
You've got to know how tonavigate.

Britt (01:28):
You have to navigate people's personalities.
Yeah.
That's a big part of being aproducer in any production job.
The job of producer is such avague term because it can mean
so many different things, butthe one thing it is...
Every time is navigating

Lindsey (01:42):
people's personalities.
It's true, yeah, yeah, andmaking it hopefully end up in a
cohesive product.
True, true.
A finished product.
So, what's new with you,Lindsay?
The one year, one year ago, wegot to Mexico.
On this day, one year ago, Ididn't realize that we landed to

(02:06):
live there for three months.
So I'm feeling like a littlenostalgic.
I'm feeling really grateful.
And I'm in this period whereyeah, I'm feeling the stretch in
a lot of ways.
Not only like figuring out work,fun, home, life balance, all the

(02:26):
things, but also what am I, Hereto create and I'm so I'm like in
this stretchy place and I thinkthat it being the day that we
went to Mexico, I, I guess I'mjust noticing more that I'm, I
don't, well, we've talked aboutthis so much on this podcast,

(02:46):
but like just tapping back intolike trusting the flow of life
and surrender.
And if you're really committedto that, like it will fuck you
up.
It can rock you because.
It doesn't always mean that it'seasy, it means you're gonna have
to like, expand into anotherversion of you, and I've been

(03:09):
hyper doing that for like, atleast three years, so it's been
like, ah, this feels scary, andthen, ah, okay, like, iteration
or whatever, and I'm like atthis next threshold, so right
now I'm like in the reallyuncomfortable phase, and what

(03:29):
I'm really like working on, I'mlike just trying to let the
discomfort be fuel.
And, and know that I wouldn'ttrade it for something else.
That's where I'm like, okay, ayear ago today I was, went to
live in Mexico for three monthsat the beginning of like a
really long journey.
That was not even, that was likethe tip of the iceberg of what

(03:50):
we did in the last year.
So, so then you, so then I knowthat I wouldn't trade it, like
this discomfort, this likestretchiness, this like, uh,
what's next?
An unknown, like, I wouldn'ttrade it for some level of
comfort that meant staying whereI was.

(04:12):
Mm, yeah.
And that I've been doing thatfor a long time.
I don't want, I guess I, I'm notthe kind of person that wants to
sit.
Not that I never want to becomfortable, but I want to,
like, explore, I want to, like,touch the edges, I want to get
into the unknown, I want to,like, see what's out there, I

(04:32):
want to, I want to see if I cando something.
And those parts that, like, feelsticky.
Or, you know, whatever thediscomfort, it's exactly what
Ramna says.
It's grist for the mill.
It all becomes grist for themill of awakening and of, like,

(04:54):
showing up more as you.
So when, when I frame it thatway, and then I'm, like,
knowing, tapping into, like,that inner knowing...
That wisdom in the body, then,then if it's grist for the mill,
then it's like, whateverdiscomfort I'm feeling is gonna
take me somewhere deeper,different, better, another level

(05:20):
than even where I am now.
And so that's what I'm feeling.
And it's, yeah, I'm just, I'mjust in a process for the last,
I guess, forever, but I've beenfeeling it for the last week or
five days.

Britt (05:38):
We have a fantastic guest today.
His name is Bob Peck.
He's the author of Original Sinis a Lie.
It's his first book.

Lindsey (05:46):
Yeah, and I found Bob on Instagram, where you can
follow him or original sin is alie.
And I just loved the way he wastalking about spirituality and
churchianity and like just acomplete 180 from.
What I, in Texas, grew up toknow as religion.

(06:10):
Where you're damned until youdo.
And all the things

Britt (06:13):
that pushed me away from religion my whole life.
Yeah,

Lindsey (06:16):
yeah.
And, so I just loved the way hewas talking about it.
Bought his book.
Loved his book.
Asked him if we could interviewhim.
He was a great guest.
And I'm sure he still is a greatguest to this day.
I doubt he's a bad guest now.
But Bob is.
Bob is an award winningfilmmaker, an author, a

(06:37):
meditation teacher, and aspiritual student.
And a child comedian.
And a child comedian.
I forgot about that.
Spoiler alert.
He's a student of Christ,Krishna, the Buddha, Yogananda.
So he has this beautiful, uniquemixture of really all the wisdom
traditions and shares howthey're all a path to the one

(07:03):
thing.
And I'm just I'm here for it.
I love it.
I think we all need it.
People that turn that don't feelspiritual at all.
Maybe this is a good one for youto listen to to see that there's
some really amazing nuggets inthere.
And then especially people, alot of people we know since
we're from Texas, that grew upwith a really constrictive

(07:27):
spiritual experience to knowthat there are people teaching
something else that are likeusing Jesus's teachings from
what the actual teachings wereand and teaching it in a loving
way.
Bob's also a Texas native justlike us and we really hit it
off.
The

Britt (07:47):
conversation really brought the two parts of me
together.
The one that Never wanted tobelieve in anything, and the one
that wants to know what isthere.

Lindsey (07:56):
Yeah, so we get into it in this talk.
We talk about mystic philosophy,we talk about practical
spirituality, we talk about thegurus, we talk about the one
guru living within all of us.
And I think you're really goingto like it.
And

Britt (08:14):
after this, you're definitely going to want to
follow Bob on Instagram.
His handle is atOriginalSinIsALie.

Lindsey (08:20):
Same name on Tik Tok, Original Sin is a Lie, or head
over to his website,OriginalSinIsALie.
com.
There's a theme running inthere.
And also, you can pick up hisbook, which is called Original
Sin is a Lie.
No shit.

Britt (08:37):
And we're going to give away one copy of Bob's book,
Original Sin is a Lie.
If you hadn't caught the namealready, all you have to do to
enter is go to the ApplePodcasts page for Can We Start
Over podcast.
Scroll to the bottom, rate andreview us, then send us a
message that says give away tolet us know that you've done it.
Then we're going to pick oneperson and give

Lindsey (08:58):
them that book.
We're going to announce a winneron November 30th, so head over
to Apple Podcasts and give usthat review.
And I know right now we're allfeeling so much stress, or a lot
of us are, stress seems to bepermeating our human experience
more and more.
And I know for me, without aclear body centered way to

(09:18):
release stress, it can causelong term effects on our health,
on our relationships, on the waywe live our lives.
And we all have this emotionalresidue from our life
experiences.
That residue gets built up andwhen we don't integrate those
experiences, it adds to thestress.

(09:40):
It adds to the inability torelax.
And it hurts those connectionsthat we have with the people
around us and the connection wehave with ourself.
You don't have to figure it outalone.
You don't have to carry stressand worry and anxiety and
actually moving through thestress in your life and

(10:01):
releasing it is just so mucheasier when you work with
someone.
So if you are ready to let go ofthe stress and the anxiety and
the questioning that might comewith this time of year, maybe
you're ready to be guided byyour inner knowing.
You're ready to know what yourembodied yes actually feels like

(10:22):
and stop questioning where to gonext.
You should consider an intuitivesomatic one on one session.
These sessions are an honestlook inward, a chance to listen
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It's 90 minutes of deepattunement to your inner

(10:45):
experience and a release of thatemotional residue.
You can return to a naturalstate of calm and centered.
Somatic work is effective atreducing stress, alleviating
anxiety, and giving us tools toregulate our nervous system so
that we operate from a space ofwholeness.

(11:07):
When you tune in to your bodysomatically, meaning through the
mind and body connected as one,you can separate thoughts and
beliefs from your emotions.
Even the self limiting ones thatwe can cling on to are really
just thoughts that weunconsciously decided to

(11:31):
believe.
And the feelings or emotions arewhat arise separate from
thought.
But our minds...
lump them together and createmeaning out of feeling.
My life completely changed whenI began working with somatics,
and that's why I love sharing itwith other people.

(11:53):
It's incredible how aperspective can shift when you
use your emotional and feelingbody as a superpower instead of
something that you push aside.
You start to feel better.
You start to sense more joy,more presence, because that's
when you're operating from thatspace of wholeness.

(12:14):
And from that place, you canlive in your authenticity.
I'm offering these intuitivesomatic release sessions at a
reduced rate.
for a limited time.
So if you're ready to clean upthat emotional residue, to come
back into presence with yourbody, book a one on one session
with me, and let's get you backto that place of wholeness.

(12:37):
Hey, Can We Start Overlisteners, are you signed up for
our email list?
We send out awesome newslettersevery week with bonus juicy
tidbits from each episode,information that we don't put on
the podcast, and our FridayFive, which is just a list of

(12:57):
the things that we love eachweek.
This is stuff you won't hear onthe podcast and you won't see on
social.
It's only available through theemail list.
That's also where we share allof our giveaways with our
newsletter community first, evenbefore the podcast episode
drops.
So if you want to join ourcommunity, sign up at

(13:17):
canwestartoverpodcast.
com slash newsletter.
Or follow the link in the shownotes.
So there's one more thing.
And that's just ask a specificquestion for people to DM us.
It could be just like, what'sthe next place you're traveling?

(13:38):
Or like, or that, or like, yeah,either that or like, what do
you, what, what did you takeaway from this talk with Bob
Peck?
And then we'll just jump intoit.

Britt (13:47):
And one last thing, when you're done listening to this,
DM us and let us know what youtook away from this episode.
I'm very curious to know.
I feel like there's somethingfor everybody.
And I really want to know whatyour something

Lindsey (13:58):
is.
So do it one more time and sayBob Peck the interview with Bob
Peck.
Okay, just like tie it all backin

Britt (14:04):
one last thing One last thing.
When you're done listening tothis episode with Bob Peck, will
you send us a DM on Instagramand let us know what your
biggest takeaway was?
I'm very curious.
I feel like there's somethingfor everybody in here and I want
to know what your something is.
And with that, now we getstarted.
Let's do it.

Lindsey (14:26):
So Brit is sort of like a, a spiritual noob.
Minecraft language like oureight year olds.
It's funny.
Yeah.
And so it's interesting to likebe from all these worlds of
Texas, which you, you know, weknow the vibe to like.
fun, can be fundamentalChristian Texas vibe, but can

(14:48):
also be around a bunch ofcreative people that are like,
fuck it all, we're atheists,like, and then to be in this
like, not even push pull, butthis dance of like, both.
All of it, none of it.
Anyway, so, so Brit is like,yeah.
Label less ness.
Yeah, exactly.

Britt (15:08):
That's been my biggest thing.
Now being like super open toeverything on this trip and just
like shedding labels.
Yeah.
You know?
Yeah.
Like, I, I used to be anatheist, you know, my whole
life.
And now I don't like even wantto.
I don't even give that word anymeaning now, you know,

Bob (15:25):
it's very declarative too early.
No, let's come right in.
Let's go.
Right.
Um, this guy said, uh, on one ofmy comments recently said the
agnostics are atheists andagnostics believe in nothing.
The mystics believe in nothing,but the mystics.
Give it a capital N.
I

Britt (15:45):
love

Lindsey (15:46):
that.
I love that.
We love to start with yourstarting over story, and that
can be literally anything thatfeels like a starting over.

Bob (15:58):
Yeah, I shared this recently.
It was not in my book, but thisis a fun kind of description of
where I am now in terms of whatI'm kind of considering in Act
3.
So, my Act 1, I was a childcomedian.
I did stand up comedy in middleschool and high school and I

(16:18):
killed as a child comedian.
I like won awards and it wasreally, I would do jokes about
like video games and Zelda andlike little kid stuff and um,
did really well with that, youknow, in my school and area and
whatever.
I went to college, went for filmhere at UT Austin and started

(16:41):
taking religious classes forelectives.
They were just interestingclasses.
I was into Indian Buddhism,shamanism, formative
Christianity.
And, um, at that same time, Ijust met all these guys that
were way funnier than me.
Um, you know, that were likeeffortlessly funny, some of
which, some of whom were doingfilm and some of whom were doing

(17:04):
improv stuff.
And I was just like, I'm not,this isn't for me.
Um.
I'm really into this, this, thisreligious studies stuff.
This is like what I'm likelights me up.
And so in college, kind of likemy thesis film was called the
kingdom within, which is aboutyoga and Christianity, which I
write about, um, interviewed abunch of pastors and swamis.

(17:27):
And, um, so yeah, in my twentieswas act two was kind of like
hardcore, serious religiousfilms.
And I didn't know at the timethat nobody wanted to watch
that.
Um, whatsoever.
So, um, but I'm still proud ofthem and I'm proud of that

(17:47):
period of my life.
It made me who I am and Ilearned so much.
Um, and then just economically,I learned marketing and big tech
came to Austin.
And so I'm in marketing at Metahere nowadays.
Um, but I started writing a fewyears ago and it just had a
humorous aspects to it.

(18:08):
And it would be like, you know,Yogananda's read on Easter or,
you know, some kind ofcomparative religion, mystic
philosophy thing, but it wastypically funny or human or
whatever.
And so I'm kind of, I'm in thisact three original sin is a lie.
The book is.
Um, you know, it's, it's gotsome laughs.
It's definitely not a dryreligious textbook.

(18:32):
And so it's a fun kind of likeintegration of the realization.
I think starting over for me wassaying, wait a second, I'm I'm
all of these, you know, I'm notjust the hard edge or the, just
the lighthearted thing.
It's, it's a little bit of both.
And so I'm really, and now I'mgetting, you know, some, some
responses from, from my workafter, you know, 10, 12, 15

(18:56):
years of no one really giving adamn.
Now, um, people are starting tothis past year.
So it's a funny, that's how itgoes, right?
Yeah.
Embodiment.
Yeah, exactly.

Lindsey (19:07):
Right.
Yeah.
It makes so much sense.
I think probably everyoneexperiences that to some extent,
like, you're one thing and thenyou're like, oh, I'm not that
anymore, so I must be theopposite.
Totally.
Or really, you're like somewherein the middle, you're like a mix
of all of them.
It was

Bob (19:23):
particularly like a 22 year old's kind of energy, too, to
just be like, no, I'm this.
And now I'm 35, I'm like, no,I'm like, I'm all of these, and
I'm more, you know.
Isn't that

Britt (19:38):
crazy how long it takes to figure that out?
Right.
Right before high school.
What was religion to you back

Bob (19:46):
then?
Yeah, I'm really lucky My dadhas always been in my life an
open minded spiritualprogressive person he his act
three was interesting and andkind of Somewhat more common
nowadays that I'm finding andmaybe this describes you guys or
people, you know But he wasCatholic altar boy as a kid and

(20:08):
then staunch militant atheistYou know, in his twenties and
thirties and, um, my parents gota divorce.
They're still great friends.
He met a woman who was a verymystical spiritual in the
nineties and, you know, changedhis life.
He had all these synchronicitiesand just like learned how to
meditate and Reiki and like.

(20:30):
So he that was my dad growing upand so I always have I'm very
grateful because so many peoplearen't meeting now Kind of in
this space of like quote unquotedeconstruction.
You guys are familiar with thatterm and just like this kind of
movement of existentialChristian Period in America,
which is great, which I highlysupport a lot of these guys and

(20:52):
gals I grew up in just heavyindoctrination, guilt, shame,
trauma, you know, a lot ofpeople are still in it, which is
a big motivator for me in mywork, but I'm very grateful
because my dad was kind of like,look, they're all valid and
Check out which ones you likeand don't like and I was reading
like Thich Nhat Hanh when I wasin 7th or 8th grade.

(21:14):
I mean, I, you know, I've kindof always been into comparative
religion, spirituality.
Yogananda, who's joining us inthe Zoom, is a big influence on
me as well.
And so, so yeah, I just, I'vealways kind of had an open
minded view and even my mom'sside are Easter Christmas
Christians.
It's in the Episcopal Church, soit was, and so I liked going,

(21:35):
you know, it's like when you gotwice a year, it's like, it's
kind of fun.
You get to dress up and, youknow, light some candles and
it's a cool thing and people areemotional and, and then, but you
know, my wife who went six timesa week, not thrilled about it.
So, you know, I'm, I'm verylucky I think in, in retrospect,

(21:58):
all these years later, I'm like,okay, wow, that was really
great.
That's how to do it.
You know?
A little bit of distance, someexposure, some reverence, and
some seeing it all as a, as abuffet line, and that's kind of
what I, how I've beencategorizing all this is like,
we got noodles, we gothamburgers, we got tiramisu, you

(22:21):
know, that whatever you,whatever your appetite is,
there's a tradition or a pathfor you.
And so that's really, I thinkwhat That's what my work is.
Yeah, it's such a

Britt (22:32):
spectrum.
Yeah, I feel especially growingup in Texas,

Bob (22:36):
seeing that, like the extreme to one end, the

Britt (22:39):
extreme to the other, yeah.
And I don't know, maybe it'slike that in other places.
I've only lived in Texas untilnow, so.
But that's, that's so cool thatyou were able to hold it
lightly.
At a young age.
And given the space to, youknow, figure it out for

Bob (22:52):
yourself.
Much

Lindsey (22:54):
gratitude.
Yeah, yeah.
Much gratitude for that.
Yeah, and that you even wereable to explore it, like,
through school, through yourartistic endeavors, it's like,
there was all, obviously, it's,it was always a nugget, it seems
like.

Bob (23:07):
It just really fires me up.
I mean, even going to, um, UT,and I took about, you know, I
have a bachelor's in religiousstudies, so not quite a PhD or a
master's, but, you know, someacademic study there, that was a
limiting belief.
At some point that has sincegone away, but just leaving my,

(23:27):
you know, a class on NewTestament scholarship and seeing
a poster for the church thing onthe hallway, you know, it's
like, this stuff is relevant.
Not everybody is aware of it.
Um, but it's like it's a bigpart of our lives and, um, and
yeah, I think, you know, in someways too, as a, as a mystic, and

(23:49):
maybe we can talk about thatterm, but just as a kind of open
minded spiritual person, youknow, a lot of what I'm trying
to do too, is to say, don'tthrow out the baby with the
bath.
You know, there's a lot of, toyou guys's point, Britt said
that earlier, you know, it'slike people are either in it or
out of it.
And a lot of the people that areout of there are like, I don't
want anything to do.
You know, I've had commentswhere people say, I don't want

(24:11):
to hear the word Bible again inmy life, you know, and it's
like, I totally respect that.
And I get that because that,that means that it was shoved
down your throat painfully.
And I'm sorry that youexperienced that.
But that doesn't change thereality of the fact that these
are powerful messages and theyhave transformative teachings in

(24:34):
within them, you know, kind ofgems among, you know, for me,
it's kind of the bottom of theocean.
You got to dive, you really gotto get get archaeological with
the text.
You got to have an intuitive,open heart.
Um, you know, it's happy to gointo more detail about the Bible
and scriptural study, butthere's some good stuff in

(24:57):
there.
You know, there's some real gemsin there and that's, that's why
they're still around.

Britt (25:01):
That's really good to hear because it's taken me 41
years to even open up.
It's any of this stuff and thenit all started rushing in and it
first started with like Lindsayplaying Ram Dass talks Mm hmm
hearing and being like, oh thisall makes so much sense And then
realizing that all thesereligions whether I believe it
or not There's so much likeancient wisdom there that that

(25:25):
it's it stops mattering whetherI believe it or not you know
like the information is thereand just like Undeniable wisdom
if you can, you know

Bob (25:35):
dig through all the other things A friend said this
recently, the truth doesn't needto be defended.
Mm.
Yeah.
It doesn't.
What you're defending...
What are you defending?
Right.
It just is.
It just exists.
And if it's not for people orwhatever, you know, that's fine,
that's where they're at.
But yeah, I see it that way too.
There's a great parable that I'mguilty of probably referencing

(25:58):
too much, but for you and youraudience, it might be valuable.
The blind man and the elephant.
I don't know if you guys arefamiliar with that image of...
Four blind men feeling differentparts of an elephant and saying,
you know, what the first blindman says this this animal is
like a hose You know that theyfill the trunk and the second
blind man feels the leg and saysno no No, this animal is like a

(26:21):
pillar and then the third blindman feels, you know, the the ear
and says oh It's like a treeleaf And they're all arguing and
a person with sight comes andsays you're right that the trunk
is like a hose.
You're right that the leg islike a column, but that's just

(26:42):
one aspect, you know, and it'sall of them.
So you're all right.
It's a being that encompassesall of these, but the, and
there's also morecharacteristics.
That you're missing out on thatyou haven't even none of you
have felt, you know, and that'sGod That's the the unspeakable
the ineffable, you know, you canhave 99 adjectives and still not

(27:07):
describe That means but youknow, it's a good image The
Hindus are very good at havingthese like very simple proverbs
that explain just the mostprofound truths So I love that
one.
It's a it's a it's auniversalists You know, as good
as it gets, right?

Lindsey (27:25):
Literally the elephant in the room, let's go back to
mysticism.
I want to talk about it a littlemore and hear your perspective
on like, you know, if there'ssomeone that is curious, is new
to this and kind of coming at itfrom a starting over, you know,
how can someone dive in or evenjust like dip their toe in to

(27:46):
get some clarity in thisconfusing life?

Bob (27:50):
Yeah, mysticism I think is often misunderstood in that a
lot of people think, just in myexperience, a lot of people
think it means kind of likemagical or something and um,
mystic just means, it comes fromthe root word, the Greek word is
mu, m u, meaning mute or silentin terms of that kind of

(28:13):
unspeakable nature of thedivine.
The mystic doesn't.
Need an institution, basically,the mystic can perceive the
divine in our hearts and thehearts of every being there's a
there's a line from Rumi whosays, I looked for the divine in
churches, temples and mosques,and I found it in my heart, you

(28:33):
know, it's just that kind ofembodiment of seeing seeing God
and everything and everywhere,not necessarily pantheistic, but
pantheistic, experiential.
It's very heavy on theexperiential and no mediator
needed.
And it's also called, I thinkit's kind of religious study.
It's also called esoteric andexoteric.

(28:54):
So there's kind of a mysticalversion of every religion you
have.
In Christianity, theinstitutions, the Catholic
church, Protestant communities,et cetera.
Um, but then you have gnosticsof the, you know,
contemplatives, uh, there's avariety of Christian mystics,
but they exist, uh, and Judaism,typically it's the, the

(29:15):
Kabbalah, the capitalists aremystical Jews.
Um, the Sufis are the mysticsfrom Islam.
Um, and there's kind of Sufiversions of both Sunni and Shia.
The East is a little different,but sometimes Zen has been
considered mystic Buddhism in asense.
And then Hinduism is so diversethat there's really not a binary

(29:40):
nature of Hindu.
It's such a rich, as you guysknow, for Ram Dass, it's, uh,
it, you could spend your lifestudying the philosophies of
that subcontinent.
And I've been entranced by itfor 20 years, and I still know.
I feel like I don't knowanything, um, but, um, but it
tends to be Hinduism tends to bemystical kind of at large, but

(30:01):
it's just, yeah, it's all aboutaccessibility.
And I, you know, there's,there's some great quotes from
religious commentators andspiritual commentators saying
like the Christianity of the21st century has to be mystical,
you know, it's, it's almost likewe're kind of approaching the
end of this, like woodendiluted, religious.
Exoteric scene, you know, we'reseeing church attendance.

(30:23):
We're seeing, you know, this isall of this.
This is just a bigtransformational moment.
It's like, well, okay, great.
Let's step into the mystic timeperiod where it's in you.
It's in your heart.
It's a, you know, community isgreat.
You know, I will say, I thinkit's just an asterisk on all
this.
I do get a lot of messages frompeople saying, is there groups
of us, you know, and because,uh, for example, the Buddha,

(30:48):
it's, The three jewels ofBuddhism are the Dharma, the
Sangha, and the Buddha.
So the, the Dharma, the duty orthe responsibility, the Sangha,
or the group, the community ofpractitioners and the Buddha,
the teacher, and, um, who's inyou, but so, and fellowship and
Christianity, I mean, thatthere, there is a real value in

(31:10):
community.
So that's, we're in aninteresting time where mystics
and spiritual folks, it's kindof like, let's.
You know, find some other peopledoing it and I think there's a,
there's a lot of great folksonline too that are, that are in
groups and, you know, even RamDass has kind of a community
Zanka and things like that.
Definitely.
But yeah, it's an interesting.

(31:30):
Evolving

Lindsey (31:32):
question.
Yeah, yeah, that's something yousaid, like the importance of
fellowship and, you know, thatcan also be a part that, like
you mentioned, people that werein this more, um, indoctrinated
experience with particularlyChristianity or they were like,
you know, that there's like realpain that came from that, that

(31:55):
also came from fellowship.
So then there can kind of belike this pulling away because
there's like, Thank you.
The well is poisoned byjudgment.

Bob (32:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
Time to just be in solitude fora while.
Totally get that.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
But that can lead, too much ofthat can lead to despair.

Lindsey (32:13):
Totally, totally.
So it's like we do, we know weneed community.
We know we need fellowship.
Like that's why we love havingfriends.
That's why we, you know, itfeels good for us to sit and
talk.
And I guess I'm just one, I'mjust curious about the like.
A lot of what comes from thepain of particularly like being

(32:33):
in a religious experience thatwasn't great is this like
underbelly that's like a lot ofjudgment or, you know, and
that's really like be this oneway.

Bob (32:44):
Correct.
I think as an outsider that therules and the guilt and shame
for not having the rules orbreaking the rules.
Even just, I mean, the name ofmy book is called Original Sin
is a Lie, this idea that isperpetuated in, you know,
several denominations ofChristianity, which Jesus never

(33:04):
says.
If anybody can find a line inthe Bible where Jesus calls us
dirty, shoot me an email,because I haven't found it yet.
Um, it's, uh, it's fromAugustine, there's a St.
Augustine or Augustine was afourth century monk.

(33:25):
He became a saint inCatholicism, and he's the one
who came up with this idea, but,um, So, a lot of my work is
saying, well, actually, Jesussays the opposite.
He says the kingdom of heaven iswithin you, Luke 17, 21.
And the east, the easternphilosophies all kind of say you
are, you are the infinite, youknow, the mystics.
You're the fractal of the one,you know, we're all this, the

(33:47):
part of the whole.
And so, exoteric kind of modernday Christianity, or
churchianity, as Yogananda,Playfully refers to it.
Um, you know, has that kind of,you are inherently dirty.
The, I was on these, this otherguy's podcast and he was saying,
we were even told to questionour intuition.

(34:07):
Or our intuitive voice, youknow, because that could be
evil.
That could be our inherentdirtiness and our inherent
original sinfulness, etc.
It's like, there's a lot ofunraveling that's gotta happen
when you've been told that yourinner heart, that your inner
voice is, is not to be trusted.

(34:28):
That's pretty much the onlything worth trusting on this
planet, to be honest.
There's not much else in myview.
Right, right.
So, a lot of unwinding to ourbrothers and sisters, you

Britt (34:38):
know.
Right, and finding your bookhas, has made me introspective.
Wondering, you know, why Ipushed away for so long.
And that's been the

Bob (34:45):
biggest thing, is the shame.
And, you know, everything you'recovering in the book.
Yeah.

Britt (34:51):
And I just wonder how many more people, like, that,
that's it.
It's like, I don't, shame is,why would I want to be a part of
this God, you

Bob (34:58):
know?
Right.
I don't want to either.
Right, right.

Lindsey (35:04):
Yeah.
But I also think, or I feel thateven in like, an atheist
community or whatever, thatthere is this underlying shame.
So it is still a separatenessfrom, I am like, I am holy.
Oh yeah, absolutely.
You know, so it's like, Twosides of the same coin where

(35:29):
basically they're believingthey're believing in original
sin, too But just like in likethis is it fuck it Yeah, a
scientific materialist,

Bob (35:41):
yeah Yeah, super interesting, I mean I definitely
have seen there's a fewcategories of like Deconstructed
people right?
I think you know, the mysticsare one of them And then you
have, I think you also actuallyhave Christians kind of still

(36:01):
trying to stay in the communityand the church, but they're
like, still open minded andlike, good luck, guys, you know,
I think Christianity needs thatit needs folks that are
deconstructing but still willingto like stay in the community
and kind of heal and rebuildfrom within.
But then I'd say kind of thatthird group is exactly who y'all

(36:22):
are talking about.
It's like people that left, thatlike Molotov cocktail, the whole
thing.
And there is a lot of anger,typically.
And there's a few creators inmind that I see and, you know,
interact with in some capacitysometimes.
Where, you know, they're,they're, they've gone the 180
degree thing.
And they're still, like yousaid, they are still carrying

(36:45):
that.
Sending peace, you know.
I think it's like, it's the,another Ram Dass thing is like,
It's all happening perfectly,you know, Maharaji says, says
that to him, um, it's allunfolding exactly as it should
and so, you know, for me,sometimes I get caught up in
that, like, where is everybodyat, where is, you know, what the
levels of consciousness andstuff and it's like, that's, I

(37:08):
don't try to live in that toomuch, you know, directionally,
it informs my work in somesense, but It's a very easy way
you can tumble stumble intobeing overly concerned about the
kind of egoic hypotheticalhypothesizing about Where
everybody is so yeah, I don'tknow.
I mean, I think I think you guysare right and I will say it from

(37:30):
the scientific materialismpiece.
I touch on it very brieflybecause I am not a scientist.
I'm a fan of science, but thereis a exciting new movement
within science.
Obviously around quantummechanics and really it's kind
of called the new science ofconsciousness.

(37:51):
It's not woo woo stuff This isyou know Some of the most
respected academic journals andthe nobel prize winners even
from last year Talked a lotabout how the universe is not
local again Not my specialty andI and I let me also caveat this
to say that some spiritualteachers mean well, but
sometimes they'll say like Hey,um, quantum physics proves

(38:14):
everything now, you know,spirituality is true and like
that's not quite it You know,it's like I don't what I don't
want to do is I don't want toappropriate physics As a not
physicist, um, but, you know, soagain, I'm walking the new ones
there, but I do honor the factthat it seems like people who

(38:34):
really, I'd say Donald Hoffmanis probably one of the more
respected scholars andprofessors in this field who
talks a lot, he sounds a lotabout, he sounds a lot like Sri
Ramana Maharshi, for example,you know, in terms of this is an
illusory world, this is, youknow, there is an interesting
paradigm as much as I could kindof disclaimer my, you know, My

(38:56):
distance from it, it does seemto be really helpful for folks
that are in that scientificmaterialist worldview.
They're like, well, wait asecond, if these scientists are
saying this, then maybe I shouldpick up the Bhagavad Gita, you
know, or whatever it, howeverpeople stumble into it.

Lindsey (39:12):
Yeah, it's like there's this crack in the, it's like,
Oh, I can see the light comingout.
Totally.
Whatever it is.
Yeah.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I kind of, I want to go back toyou mentioning like spiritual
ego.
Cause actually I, I remember aportion of your book where
you're kind of talking aboutlike how much a shaman costs and
there is this level of, of.

(39:33):
Where we can get, I mean, I knowI get caught in it, I'm like,
there's, I'll be like, they'reselling something while selling
some, while I am also sellingsomething, you know?
Yeah, totally.
Um, but I just kind of want tohear your thoughts on that and
like, how you balance it, howyou hold it.
I don't

Bob (39:50):
do a good job of it.
Um, No.
Well, you're aware, so you'redoing well.
Yeah, awareness is number one,for sure.
Yeah.
Yeah,

Britt (39:59):
I, you know.

Bob (40:00):
Also, though, like, shamans that charge 30k, like, there are
rich people that are blinded bygreed and, you know, have the
30k sitting around and, youknow, are probably going to get
corrected by that person, youknow, so it's, it's very, as
long as I'm not judging of it,that's really seems to be the

(40:22):
theme, you know, it's like, if,if I'm free of the judgment of
the situation, I'm liberated ofit.
You know, it's, it, there's adistinction in a course, of
course, miracles, which is abig, um, document that I love on
my altar, um, in terms of kindof distinct, distinguishing
judgment from discernment, it'sfairly common in mystic

(40:43):
philosophy, kind of judgment islike heavier, you know, kind of
has egoic accusation.
But discernment is a, is a, ismore objective, as objective as
you can possibly be.
Now that's, this is imperfect,because it's conceptual, and
it's words are like fingerpainting, you know, compared to
the actual reality.

(41:04):
But, um, it does seem likethere's a way to kind of be
objective about these kinds ofthings, while not getting caught
up in it.
I mean, even the people...
There's a great, um, book calledDisappearance of the Universe,
which I'm happy to point peopleto.
I love, you guys are nodding.
It's good.
Um, it's terrific, and they,they mention Gary, who's the

(41:24):
author, is talking to these deepspiritual teachers, and he says,
um, you know, Christianity is sowrong, and the church leaders
are so hypocritical, and youknow, and it's like, it's all
true.
They said, but do you see whatyou just did?
You're judging the judgers.
So you fell into the trap ofjudgment.

(41:46):
The ego perfectly created thislittle, you know, bear trap for
you to stumble into and you did.
You took the bait of, and that'swhat kind of back to like
deconstruction talk.
It's like, that's what a lot ofpeople.
I was like, well, but now, nowyou're, look what you're holding
kind of thing.

(42:06):
So, right.
And, but I, but look, see, nowI'm calling them out.
So it's, it's such a, you can

Lindsey (42:13):
really go round and round and it's just like another
way.
We like.
Make ourselves separate,separate, separate, where it's
like, oh, no, we're all in likewe get it.
But like them.
Yeah Yeah, we

Britt (42:24):
get

Bob (42:24):
it guys.
The three of us.
That's hilarious.
Like I don't get shit.

Britt (42:29):
Yeah, yeah,

Bob (42:30):
yeah.
I refuse to

Lindsey (42:32):
accept that.
Yeah, and then we can, that'slike, that's how I see my like,
um, spiritual ego or whateveryou want to call it.
That's how I see it show upwhere it's like, oh, this is,
this is not separate.
But, like, the other thingdoesn't fit in, and then...
It's bullshit.
Sorry.

(42:52):
Sorry that part of me, but itjust

Bob (42:54):
doesn't work.
You're so right.
Yeah, the, the, the last chapterof my book, spoiler alert, I
think the title is, uh,Liberation is True Forgiveness,
which is something that, ofcourse, Miracles talks about,
something that Byron Katie talksabout, with her.
Um, she's a enlightened queen.
Yeah.
She's a California

Lindsey (43:12):
at the health food store.
I had, I had a fangirl moment.
I was like, Oh my God, it'sByron

Bob (43:18):
Katie.
She was in the grocery store byherself.

Lindsey (43:21):
She was with, um, what's her partner's name?
Steven.
Steven.
Steven.
You saw the power couple of.
Yes, I was like, Oh my gosh,they're getting something from
the hot

Bob (43:29):
bar.
Oh my gosh, that's so funny.
You wouldn't

Britt (43:32):
believe all the people.
We'll talk about that on

Bob (43:34):
air.
Oh, the O Hi, the O Hi.
Uh,

Lindsey (43:37):
Spire and Katie.
Celebrity sightings.
The work, one of the things thatchanged my life of the millions
of things.
She says,

Bob (43:43):
if, if you look at someone building a bomb that is so ready
to blow up other people for whatthey believe.
If you believed what theybelieve.
Wouldn't you be building a bombtoo?
You know, it's like just thislevel of like everyone is Just
we're all just walking arounddoing what we think is the best,

(44:04):
you know We're doing our bestand so like having this radical
acceptance is the way out Itseems like of just you know,
that's the veil breaker Recipeis just saying, okay, cool.
Everybody is doing exactly whatthey think is best for them in
this moment.
And the first reactive thing Iwould say to that is, this is

(44:26):
why it's the last chapter of thebook.
There's a lot of buildup.
I don't open with that becausethere's some foundational stuff
you got to understand aboutspirituality and ethics.
And.
And also service, you know, Ithink one of the biggest
misconceptions, I mean, maybethis is something you heard
Britain you're in those days interms of your issues of
spirituality is that it'sapathetic, you know, or that

(44:50):
it's kind of into anindividualistic that it's just
like, oh, you're just sitting ona cushion, man, and the world is
burning.
And, you know, all of myteachers kind of living and
passed on, um, have been veryclear.
The scriptures are very clearthat it's you, we act to relieve
suffering.
And when you get further alongthe spiritual path, it, it, it,

(45:14):
it becomes more natural.
You generate compassion throughyour spiritual work, whether
it's meditation, yoga, you know,creative work, service work,
whatever it may be, uh,psychedelic work, you, you self
inquiry.
You generate compassion and youkind of become this engine that

(45:34):
has this limitless energy.
I'm not there yet My mirror hasplenty of dust on it that I'm
polishing off.
But you know, the real mastersare tend to be very active
They're very serviceful.
They're very healthy bodhisattvais a term in Buddhism, which
means compassion for all beingsActing out of that.
So it's a funny paradox, youknow, it's like You're accepting

(45:57):
everyone for where they are andat the same time you're working
for the benefit of every personand you're It doesn't mean that
you just let you know Wellpeople say like oh, so you just
let them come into your houseand take your stuff And it's
just like no you can stillbelieve in jail and you'll have

(46:18):
compassion and love for thepeople in jail and They, you
know, you're preventing innocentpeople from being hurt, but at
the same time, the people whocaused that harm, they're
suffering.
That's why they caused the

Lindsey (46:32):
harm.
Oh, yeah.
That, I mean, that's like,that's what mindfulness is.
You can't just be aware withoutcompassion.
It's the two wings that worktogether and you can't just have
compassion without awareness.
Or then maybe you will be like,all right, just come in.
And that's a Ram Dass story,too, where he's like.
The woman says to him, Oh, Iwould, I realized that I would

(46:53):
let this homeless person justlike come live with me if I
didn't have like some awarenessaround it.

Bob (47:01):
Totally.
Yeah, you can give and give andgive.
I mean, Karma Yoga is, um,talked about in the Gita, which
is one of the oldest documentsin civilization, guys.
It comes from the Mahabharata,which is 10 times.
The Homeric Epics.
It's got some decent amounts ofwords and letters and characters

(47:23):
in there.
I have not read it.
Um, I've read the Cliff Notes,um, but within the Mahabharata,
this epic Homeric tale of Um,wars and families and loves and
there is a brief moment betweentwo characters.
I'm sure you guys know this, butjust context for anybody in the

(47:44):
audience.
Um, it's between Krishna andArjuna, uh, at the, at the
battlefront, uh, before this bigwar is to take place.
And, um, the yogi mastersinterpret the war.
to be a symbolic war, uh, inourselves.
Um, there's pretty decenthistorical evidence that, um,

(48:05):
it's called the Kurukshetra War,um, actually took place.
But it's both, you know, it'shistorical.
It's like the Bible, like it'shistorical, um, archive
chronicling, but it's alsosymbolic allegory and to
ourselves and, um, anyway, it'seighteen chapters.
You can read the Bhagavad Gitain a few days.

(48:28):
Uh, and you'll take a lifetimeto understand it, but, uh, it's
very good.
And, um, karma yoga is somethingthat Krishna tells Arjuna about
karma means action and yogameans, uh, union, kind of the,
the union of action, the divineunion of, um, soulful action

(48:50):
and, um.
What he says is that there'sreally two things to avoid, um,
in terms of karma.
One is identification with beingthe doer.
So, I'm not the role.
I'm, I'm behind the role.
I'm actually just doing theaction.

(49:11):
Um, I think this is sometimescalled out or, you know, poked
fun at.
For example, when MikeMissionaries or whatever go to,
you know, Haiti and, you know,pick up a tree off the ground
and then take a picture andthey, you know, kind of get the
egoic gratification for doingsomething that they're not

(49:33):
really, you know, doing orwhatever.
That's a kind of an example ofthat person saying, I'm do, I'm
this do gooder, um, whichKrishna says.
That's pretty empty.
You're just doing the work.
Don't focus on being the doer.
He's the doer, right?
And then secondarily, don't beattached to the outcome.
That one is very tough becausewe are all attached to all

(49:56):
outcomes all the time.
But, you know, I think what Isay in the book is you could
feed a thousand people every dayfor a hundred years and the
minute you stop, there's goingto be hungry bellies.
You still feed people.
You still do the work.
You still serve from this placeof devotion, but your happiness
or your satisfaction should bedetached from the outcome.

(50:18):
You know, again, I find thatvery useful.
I think there's a lot of kindof, there's a lot of activism
right now, which is inspiring.
I think the last few years, it'sbeen really beautiful to see all
these people becoming passionateabout changing things for the
better and also be.
careful and aware of that kindof activist anger that can burn

(50:44):
us up.
Ram Dass talks a lot about that,about people being at a peace
rally and being so angry.
You know, the kind of irony ofthat.
So,

Lindsey (50:56):
yeah.
Well, that Maharaji.
And, you know, you've said itseveral times, like his whole
teaching is, how do you getenlightened, feed people?
Serve people, love everyone, allthat.
And, and he would like do the,he would like have these little
teachings with people that hecould sense were kind of caught

(51:16):
up in it.
And the teaching would be sobehind the scenes.
Subtle.
It's not like sitting them down.
Personalized.
It's not, you're not coming intothe principal's office.
Yeah.
But it's just like this way oflike, oh, okay, now I see why.
I, now I see, I see like thebigger picture.

Bob (51:35):
Exactly.
And that's, you know, I think inmy studies of spiritual teachers
and saints and things like that,the, the, the guruist of the
gurus don't typically write orspeak that much.
Maharaj is a great example.
He wrote this many books.
He really doesn't have.
A lot to say, usually.

(51:57):
He didn't even make a

Lindsey (51:58):
course.
He

Britt (51:59):
didn't

Bob (52:00):
make a workshop.
That's funny.
He apparently did write thediary.
Have y'all heard that story?
Tell me about it.
He would write a diary and itjust said Ram, Ram, Ram.
Ram, Ram,

Lindsey (52:11):
Ram.
I think it's in the back ofWhispers in the Heart.
It's just a copy of

Bob (52:17):
his diary.
Oh, it's so good.
His pages.
It's beautiful.
Yeah, so then he wasn't tooprolific.
You know, it's like the secondgen is who carries the story.
It's the Plato and Socrates.
It's Jesus's gospel writers.
You know, it's like the, themaster doesn't, the master is
just embodying this place ofunity consciousness,

(52:40):
unconditional love, you know,complete transcendence of
separation land.
And, you know, the people kindof.
around that person are sotransformed by that presence, by
that energy.
It seems pretty challenging tonot want to chronicle it and
share it with as many people aspossible.

(53:02):
Right.

Britt (53:03):
So we've been hanging out with Raghu Marcus and...
He's always, he'll always tell astory about Maharaji, but it'll
always be like, he didn't reallysay much.
That's just like, common.
He didn't say much.
All of the teachings were veryprofound, but he wasn't
lecturing anyone.

(53:23):
Everything was just throughlike, real life.

Bob (53:26):
Couple little practical moments.
Apple falling off the table, youknow, yeah, yeah, yeah, and it's
totally trans.
Rago Marcus has been tellingthose stories for 50 years or 60

Lindsey (53:39):
years.
So he's like, it wasn't

Bob (53:41):
a big deal.
Yeah, yeah, it wasn't a bigdeal.
It is a completely altered hisentire incarnation.
Irrevocably.
Miracle of Love is really great,but it's also kind of like, it's
subtle.
You know, it's like littlesubtle moments.
It's a thousand stories.
It's all these different storiesand Those guys put together

(54:03):
about Maharaji.
It's great, but it's it's Yeah,it's kind of like, you got to be
into it, you know, that's not abook that's going to like, take
somebody, you know, off ofChristopher Hitchens YouTube or
whatever, you know, it's like,it's you got to be somebody
who's already a fan.

Lindsey (54:20):
Yeah.
Well, and it's so interesting oflike, who becomes a fan, because
it doesn't really make sense.
You know what I mean?
So you do it like it does feeltrue that like You don't know
about Maharaji until, like, hedecides.
Right, right, right.
Until he decides.
And I know that, like, someone'sgoing to hear that and be like,
Ugh, kind of going back to,like, the magical or whatever.

(54:43):
But that's the thing aboutMaharaji is, like, and Jesus.
It's a little bit crazy.
These people that, that, like,performed miracles, and whether
that is allegory or real or it'ssomewhere in between, and yet,
really, that didn't even matter.
Doesn't matter.
That's kind of like the adtotally for you to be like, come

(55:06):
on, come here, come inside.
That's like the, that's likethe, um, smoke bomb for the
magic show.
It's like the real thing is howdid you make that card
disappeared?
Not the, not if it really poofedinto thin air or not.
What's that?

Bob (55:21):
That's so true.
What's that?
Shirty side.
Baba.
I think he said that Ramdasclosely says, um, miracles are,
I give them what I, what theywant.
So they want what I give.
So, you know, like, he's, he wastotally aware of that.
It's like the miracles are justparlor tricks.
It's even called, they're calledSiddhis.
Um, you know, to kind ofcontinue that, uh, S I D D H I,

(55:43):
which the ancient Hinduliterature talks about.
And, um, like, yeah, all themasters.
Ramakrishna, in particular, was,uh, is a very high being.
Highly recommend studying him.
Um, this ecstatic.
Some devotees consider him anavatar.
He might as well be, to me,honestly.
And he warns against cities.

(56:03):
I mean, basically, they're adistraction.
They're kind of a, you know, youcan get caught up in their, in
their power in the world.
But, you know, it's a kind ofego judgment trap, again.
It's like, oh, no, that's, whatyou want is the divine
connection.
What you want is unity, becauseThat's the, that's the real
gold, you know, that's the real,that's really the only thing

(56:25):
worth thirsting for, everythingelse is just sand through the
fingers.

Britt (56:30):
Right.
I could, I, so I could getcaught, I could talk for the
rest of this episode aboutEastern stuff.
But I have a question for you.
So as someone who has, um, kindof pushed away religion for most
of my life, I'm curious how, howpeople like me could find out
more about Jesus in,

Bob (56:52):
in a way that I guess they can sift through all the BS.

Britt (56:56):
You know, like, more, more realistic

Bob (56:58):
versions of what Jesus was.
Yeah, great questions.
Um, I mean, this is so shameful,but my book is a good start.
Um, Oh, no, absolutely.
I do, I do spend about 80 pageson trying to do that.
Yeah.
Cause I, you know, step one isbasically Bible is not
infallible.
That's what Christians andrecovering Christian, you know,
that group needs to understandis that's just, that's just

(57:22):
silly.
You know, Bible scholarship ofthe last 150 years.
Um, it's, it's reallyimpressive.
I mean, these, these men andwomen since about the middle
1800s have really studied,studied, kind of started with
this guy, Alfred Schweitzer.
who's, you know, one of theearly fathers of modern Bible
scholarship.
He was a Nobel Peace Prizewinner, a fascinating guy.

(57:45):
Um, but it's called the questfor the historical Jesus is kind
of how it's described sometimesto your point.
And, and even the JeffersonBible, you know, Thomas
Jefferson and kind of a lot ofthe enlightenment era thinkers,
Jefferson took out all themiracles.
From the New Testament.
So he just his Bible was likethis thick It's just what Surma
the mountain kind of theteachings and so there's that

(58:08):
that's this isn't new you know,it's it's been a couple hundred
years a very diligentscholarship and so So yeah, we
you know, these guys reallystudy it I'll say I'll say
briefly kind of one thing Italked about in the book that is
in line with modern day Biblescholarship Which is when you're
in church and you read the Bibleyou do what's called a
horizontal reading You startwith the beginning of Matthew,

(58:35):
read the end of Matthew, and youstart with the beginning of
Mark, read the end of Mark.
You go, even though Mark washistorically earlier, they put
Matthew first because of thebirth narrative.
Anyway, you know, you're going Ato Z on these Gospels because
that's how you read a story.
But what scholarship does, andit all sounds similar, you know,
it's like Jesus, he's baptized,he's teaches, he's crucified,

(58:57):
etc.
When you do what Bible scholarsdo, which is called vertical
reading, you take the same eventin multiple Gospels.
There's four Gospels.
Three are pretty close to eachother in terms of plot points,
events.
Um, although the Jesus characterthemselves are very different,

(59:18):
and that's a fun aspect in Biblescholarship too.
John is...
So different than, than thethree synoptics is what they're
called, the synoptic gospel.
But yeah, what, what Byron'sFellowship has done is they'll
say, here's this event in Mark.
Here's this event in Matthew.
Here's this event in Luke.
Let's compare them.
Uh, we'll compare them from akind of plot point standpoint.

(59:41):
We'll compare them from adescriptions and kind of how
it's framed.
You know, one of the, uh, youknow, for example, in Mark, he's
Kind of this misunderstooddesert preacher.
Nobody can really make sense ofhim in some capacity.

(01:00:01):
People don't really get him asmuch.
Well, Mark's the first one inJohn, he's the king of the
universe.
I mean, it's, it's a fascinatingkind of evolution of the Jesus
character.
And when I say Jesus character,to be clear, I'm not.
Suggesting that Jesus ofNazareth, uh, didn't walk the
earth, I firmly believe he did,and I, we have, there's a lot of

(01:00:23):
historic, good historicalscholars, Christian and non
Christian, who assert hisreality as a, as a man, but, um,
in the Gospels, there'sdifferent characters, um, and
so, one Bible scholar says thatthe Jesus of Mark wouldn't
recognize the Jesus of John, um,they're so, they're so different

(01:00:43):
as, as terms of how they kind ofWalk around and talk about
themselves and so on and so Iyou know, I'm kind of my book is
like a 101 of this I thinkthere's a there's a really great
Bible scholar.
I really like Bart Ehrmanprofessor Ehrman at UNC Chapel
Hill.
He's written a lot of but he'sdone what a lot of scholars do

(01:01:05):
Uh, don't do, which is writesuccessful kind of public books.
So he's a great start.
If you really want to dig in,um, misquoting Jesus, I love.
And then I, one of my, uh, oldprofessors, uh, L.
Michael White, I reference, hewrote, um, scripting Jesus and
from Jesus to Christianity, I'mhappy to point people to, you

(01:01:25):
know, folks that spend theirlives kind of in these texts.
And then I'd say secondarily toanswer your question, Brett, the
Eastern guys.
Um, you know, Tek n Hanh wroteLiving Buddha, living Christ.
Yogananda wrote The Yoga ofJesus.
Uh, Swami Prove.
Nanda wrote the Sermon on theMount according to Vedante.
Which is amazing that nobodytalks about.

(01:01:47):
And so, those are, that wassuper helpful for me.
And I, I'm just condensing.
I'm condensing the masters andthe scholars in a hopefully
accessible way.
Cause he's great.
You know, again, back to yourquestion.
It's like, that guy's cool.
All of this later, distorted,bizarro stuff.
Some of which has some validity,some of which doesn't.

(01:02:09):
Um, really distorts the guy andso it's a, it's a real honor for
me to help to try to uncoversome of that.
Awesome.
So,

Britt (01:02:17):
let me take a sharp turn here and Yeah.
When did you discover plantmedicine and how did that

Bob (01:02:22):
inform, uh, I guess your spiritual life?
I am tripping so hard right now.
No, um.
Laughter.
You're just really good at itnow.
Yeah, can you tell?
Um, Um, big fan, you know, I,um, college, I, Definitely did

(01:02:43):
it at a party first, which iswrong.
Um, I do, you know, the TerrenceMcKenna and the Tim Leary stuff,
like set and setting, I think islike number one in terms of this
is a sacred thing, and youshould, Americans take
psychedelics at either a partyor a festival.

(01:03:04):
Which are like the two worstliteral environments to take
this stuff and they're like, Oh,what, you know, and people are
scared of it.
I mean, I have friends even thatlike super hesitant about it now
and it's because they've trippedreally hard and had bad trips of
bad environments and that's.
You know, it's what happens whenyou miss mistreat her, but yeah,

(01:03:26):
no indigenous plants, uh, youknow, they've been used as tools
and they, they, what they do isthey break down boundaries for a
brief period, which is, can bevery valuable.
Um, it's not, they're not foreverybody and they're not the
end all be all either.
You know, I think that's a bigtheme of Ram Dass's work is to

(01:03:47):
say, Hey, you know, a lot ofpeople from hippie days.
And I think even a lot of peoplenow guys, and kind of the
psychedelic renaissance are veryinto them.
And, um, they're mostly justthere.
They can be a very powerful toolin awakening.
Um, but yeah, done responsibly.
And I feel like I'm like a,giving a PSA here, but, uh, uh,

(01:04:11):
but I'm a fan.
I like my, these days I'm moreof a microdose guy to just enjoy
a sunset or the sound of the.
Wind on the leaves.
And I'll get inspired and writesomething.
But, yeah, yeah.
I'm a fan.
I've had a handful of trips.
Nothing too crazy.

Lindsey (01:04:28):
Yeah, yeah, I think it is.
I'm glad you said that likethere's I mean, it's so true.
It's just it's not the onlything.
And it's flashy.
So it can be like, this is thething like, and then it just
like another one of those.
It's not the miracle.
It's not the magic trick.
It's like the thing behind

Britt (01:04:48):
it.
Right.
That's come up a lot on thepodcast is how important
integration is.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
With doing it.
And I will say like First fewtimes I took it, it wouldn't,
wasn't at a festival oranything, but it definitely
wasn't in a way that I wastrying to, like a party setting
or something?
Yeah, a party.
I wasn't trying to find somedeeper meaning, but that opened
me up to like, oh shit, there'ssomething deeper

Lindsey (01:05:09):
here.
Yeah, man, this is so random andlike completely off topic, but
like what?
When I did acid when I was like17, it in the weirdest way, like
opened up a doorway.
That suddenly Christianitydidn't make sense, but like it
turned something else on in methat just made me kind of like
believe in something that I'dactually didn't even realize for

(01:05:33):
a long time.
Anyway, so it can't it is it issuper relevant and it's just and
it's just like not the onlything, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
To me, it gets a little likeIt's a

Bob (01:05:42):
gateway drug, if you will.
Yeah,

Lindsey (01:05:46):
exactly, exactly.
Yeah, and then there's, youknow, people that have done like
a thousand sits or whatever.
That's what they're doing, andthat's great.
And I'm looking for the other,the other thing.
The gateway drug, exactly.

Bob (01:06:00):
That's funny.
The Alan Watts quote is thebest, where it's like, you take,
the biologist takes his eye offthe microscope and takes notes.
You know, it's like, you can'tjust be staring at the molecules
for a thousand hours of yourlife, like, just, you know, or
get the message, hang up thephone, you know, it's like, this
is to teach you something and,you know, whenever I'm like in a

(01:06:24):
rut, and I think that's why,again, microdosing, it's If I'm
like in a funk, it will help meget out of it, you know, I, I
almost kind of consider verymild doses of psilocybin to be
like an anxiety medicine almost,I mean, it's, there's, there's
multiple uses here, it's like,that's on the low end, the high

(01:06:45):
end is if you want to break theveil of separation land and see
the true reality for a minute,great, in a safe space, not
operating heavy machinery, andthen the low doses, can just be
a mild, you know, energy shift,uh, tone, tone shift.

(01:07:05):
So highly, highly, uh, support.
I think from a legal standpoint,it's incredibly frustrating
that.
We're still, you know, it's justso stupid in America, but the
taboo going away is good, youknow The fact that the taboo is
going away culturally.
Thank you artists and musiciansand philosophers and spiritual

(01:07:28):
people for the last 50 years forhacking away at this BS In
America because it should belegal.
It should be regulated all thesethings.
Everyone should have access toit.
That is a Sound mind and legalage, etc.
But, um, but yeah, it's just,yeah, it's not, you still have
to walk through the door.

Lindsey (01:07:48):
Yeah.
And then keep, keep it churning,you know, totally.
I just want to talk aboutreincarnation.
Oh, sure.
A little bit.
Just, just one more littlething.

Bob (01:07:57):
Yeah, no, let's do it.
It's funny.
I just Just one quick littlething.
Just the endless wheel ofSamsara and the cycling of

Lindsey (01:08:07):
lifetimes.
You know how, like, this goeson, yeah, forever?
Let's

Britt (01:08:10):
set a timer.
Let's set a one minute

Bob (01:08:11):
timer.
Reincarnation, 60 seconds, go.
That's funny.
Hey Siri, set a one minute time.
I, I, okay, I have maybe someinteresting ideas about this and
maybe, maybe we do a part two?
Yeah.
To talk, go to the deeperepisode, like we haven't been
deep enough.
Reincarnation.
is legitimate in terms of thesouls, the consciousness

(01:08:37):
traveling through theincarnations.
However, from the non dualiststandpoint, it's also unreal.
So, in non duality, there's onlyone.
And there ever was, is, and willbe this oneness of all, actually
transcendent of creation.
This...
Dream like separation betweenyou guys are Lindsay and Brit

(01:09:01):
and those bodies over there.
I'm Bob and this one, you know,this is separation land where we
dream the thought of, of, ofbeing separate.
And so reincarnation, you know,I, I write about Dr.
Ian Stevenson in my book, who,uh, University of Virginia,
let's see 40 years, it's somecrazy amount of decades of study
of children who speak otherlanguages, you know,

(01:09:25):
unexplainably, or he did a lotof work to it like birthmarks
that have some correspondingwound from a previous, you know,
or however you were killed thatcarries over, you know, the The,
the studies are there, you know,it's, it's, it's not, these are
pioneers.
It's still frowned upon, Ithink, by the mainstream, but

(01:09:46):
mainstream science is political.
And what they tend to do is, um,make people who are on the front
lines of the new discoveryostracized and be called crazy.
You know, a few decades later,that's the prevailing thought.
So we're really in this excitingtime of like quantum mechanics,
you know, science ofconsciousness, incarnation

(01:10:08):
studies, NDEs, there's like tensof thousands of NDEs, people
talking about this kind ofstuff, right?
So there is a lot of legitimacyto, you know, having multiple
incarnations in your soul'sjourney.
And at the same time, it's alsoa part of the illusion.
So that's my fun littleasterisk.
I love that.

(01:10:28):
Yeah,

Lindsey (01:10:29):
yeah, because you can't like, then you're like
stretching time out on atimeline.
And that's not what it

Bob (01:10:35):
is, right?
And if linear time is part ofthe dream.
Yeah, exactly.
Um, you know, again,Disappearance of the Universe.
The title is Disappearance ofthe Universe because what they
say is when the last beingawakens to the true realization
of unity, you know, the dream'sover and the universe
disappears.
And so this entire phenomenaluniverse of material form is

(01:10:59):
just this, you know, snap of adream that we've already woken
up from even, I mean, it getsreally heady and it's tough even
for me sometimes, but, um, it'sa, it's a helpful framework.
There's a, the last thing I'llsay is in Manual for Teachers,
which is the third volume of ACourse in Miracles, it has text.

(01:11:21):
Workbook, manual for teachersfor your academic self study,
style, and um, it says, youknow, reincarnation, like is it
true or whatever, it saysreincarnation is, the only
question about reincarnationthat you should be concerned
about is, is it useful?

Lindsey (01:11:37):
Right.
Right.

Bob (01:11:39):
Which is pretty good.
That's a good take.
If it's useful in yourunderstanding of breaking the
thing, great.
If it's not useful in that youget too concerned about your
past life trauma when you wereLeonardo da Vinci and da da da
or whatever, like then you'relost in that.
Cleopatra.
Yeah, Cleopatra.
Everyone's Cleopatra.

(01:12:00):
Yeah.
And uh, then it's not useful andjust be here in this moment.

Lindsey (01:12:06):
Uh, right.
What a way to end that.
Yeah.
And is it useful?
Feels like it could be anothertitle for your book.
Like, is all, was all that shituseful?
Is this useful?
Like, okay, let's take theuseful things and plan them.
Yeah.
And what's not useful?
Toss it out.
Toss it out.

(01:12:26):
Yeah.
We have, we end with.
Three things.
One is, is there another, isthere like a new starting over
for you?
Is there something percolatingthat's Totally random, weird,
that is something you want todo.

Bob (01:12:42):
Uh, yeah, I'm working on an entrepreneurial project, um,
with education curriculum inmind, which I'm excited about.
I'm happy to keep you guysposted.
It's kind of a separate projectnow, but it's probably
eventually going to line up withlike, spiritual author stuff.
It's tied to kind of comparativereligion in the education world.

(01:13:04):
So that's kind of what I'mfocusing on now.
The book is really from like, 27to 32 for me.
I'm 35 now.
So kind of, yeah, I'm working onthe next chapter of like, what
the heck is this?
How is this incarnation usefulfor anybody else?

Britt (01:13:21):
Nice.
Amazing.
Amazing.
Alright, next question.
What music are you loving right

Bob (01:13:25):
now?
Ooh, I'm, um, Sam Evian's Timeto Melt is I think 21.
And, um, I don't know how tostop playing it.
King Gizzard.
is like a fave for me.
Yeah, I really like like psychstuff.
We just got back from Australia.
I didn't find them though.
They're playing in the US in thenext month or so.

(01:13:48):
They're amazing.

Lindsey (01:13:49):
Awesome.
And we end with a question fromeach of our 8 year old twins.
First one from Eli.
No, this one's from Jack.
What do you think is going tohappen in Frozen 3?

Bob (01:14:04):
That's a really good question.
I'm caught up on Frozen 1, butnot Frozen 2.
Um, so...
And I love when you make stuffup.
I think, um, Elsa becomingqueen, ice queen of the world is
gonna happen.
Um, not just...
The little town where she is.

Britt (01:14:25):
Perfect.

Bob (01:14:28):
Take over.
Elsa take over.

Lindsey (01:14:30):
Yeah, Elsa takes over.
Eli question, how are solarpanels made?
Remember, you can make

Bob (01:14:37):
this up.
That's the great mystery.
Um, you take a bunch of sugarand pour it on your driveway and
then hose it down and put a ropearound it and leave it
overnight.

Lindsey (01:14:50):
I do know that that's actually real.
That's true.
Yeah.
I'm looking it up on Wikipediaright now.
Confirmed.
This has been amazing.
Yeah.
How can people find you?

Bob (01:14:58):
Yeah.
I'm Original Sin is a Lie onInstagram and TikTok.
Um, I'm Original Sin is a Liedot com, uh, first time author.
Um.
human on planet earth with therest of you guys.

Lindsey (01:15:10):
Love it.
This has been so good.
Thank you.
Thanks so much.
Let's do a part two for sure.
That'd be fun.
Let's

Britt (01:15:15):
hang out.
Let's hang out in real lifesometime.
Sure.
Come on down to Austin.

Lindsey (01:15:19):
Yeah, we'll be there.
Awesome.
Thanks guys.
Okay.
Take care, Bob.
Thank you.