October 10, 2023 • 55 mins
In this Can We Start Over podcast episode, hosts Britt and Lindsey interview bestselling author Pam Grout.
Pam has written over 20 books -- including the international bestseller E Squared, Thank & Grow Rich, and A Course In Miracles Experiment. She's had a successful writing career and a joyful life by tapping into what she calls "the divine buzz."
They discuss various topics, including starting over, spirituality, and the power of manifestation. Pam shares her journey and insights on living authentically, connecting with the bigger universe, and finding creative fulfillment.
The conversation is filled with laughter, personal anecdotes, and profound wisdom. This episode is a must-listen if you're interested in manifesting and living a more joyful, abundant life.
Don't miss out on the opportunity to enter their giveaway to win three of Pam's amazing books. To enter, rate, and review the Can We Start Over podcast on Apple Podcasts, send a screenshot of your review to their email or Instagram.
The giveaway closes on October 31st, so act fast.
Follow Pam Grout on Instagram or Facebook and find all her offerings on her website.
Tune in to this enlightening and entertaining episode and discover the magic of starting over and embracing the divine buzz in your life.
If this episode has sparked a desire to tap into your creativity there's still space in Lindsey's upcoming workshop -- Touching Into Creativity. An online experiential proven process to guide you back to your creative flow within!
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Are you looking to reconnect in your relationship? Check out our free guide to Starting Over In Your Relationship so You Can Do Awesome Stuff Together!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Britt (00:14):
Welcome to the Can We Start Over podcast.
Lindsey (00:16):
My name is Britt.
And my name is also Britt.
I just changed it today.
I got the paperwork in the mail.
So you're listening to Britt andBritt.
Ooh, I
Britt (00:25):
have been thinking about legally changing my name.
Lindsey (00:28):
To what?
Machiavelli.
Cutting out the first name.
Oh.
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah.
Because I feel like a lot ofprocess for...
Well, I'm just
Britt (00:39):
sick of, I don't like, I've never gone by my first
name, which is McElroy Valley.
But since it's my first Yeah,but since my f, since it's my
first name, it always comes up.
Joshua.
Joshua.
Is there a Joshua here?
Or whatever.
And like, I don't relate to thatname at all.
It doesn't feel like me.
I like it.
I don't like it.
Isn't not me.
Huh?
If I called you juicy, would yoube like's Not me.
(01:02):
You're just
Lindsey (01:03):
making that up on the spot.
That's That's different.
Yeah,
Britt (01:06):
you don't relate to
Lindsey (01:07):
Juicy, do you?
But you're just making up on thespot.
That's different.
Britt (01:11):
It's not different.
I didn't make up my name.
That was my choice.
Lindsey (01:16):
My name, my choice.
Anyway, my name is actuallyLindsay.
This is actually my husband,Britt.
You're listening to the Can WeStart Over podcast.
We are a married couple and, youknow, like a year ago, we sold
our house, we sold our stuff andwe went on a nine month travel
adventure with our three kids.
Not one, not two, but three ofthem.
(01:38):
And then we shared it with youguys here.
And along the way, we talked toother incredible people who
started over in their ownincredible way.
And now we're settling down.
We're starting our new startingover, which is starting a new
life in a new place.
And that's what you're listeningto.
Always be starting
Britt (01:59):
over, right?
And so maybe that's
Lindsey (02:01):
why ABS.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
We appreciate you listening.
We hope you are finding value inour silliness, in our wackiness,
in our wildness.
And we have an amazing episodefor you today.
One that if you give a darn tootabout manifesting, which I do
(02:27):
and I don't, then best way to doit.
It's the best way to do it is todo and don't.
I do.
And there's definitely somethingbigger that even feels better.
Which is just being so freakingin love with life that it all
just happens naturally, but thisguest was actually a big
manifestation, I guess, if youwill, meaning that I just love
(02:51):
her and I think she's so cool.
Our guest today is Pam Grout.
The number one New York Timesbest selling author, she's
written over 20 books includingsome of my favorites, E Squared
and The Course in MiraclesExperiment, Pam Grout is a
writer who has published withScientific American
(03:11):
Explorations, People Magazine,Travel and Leisure to name a
few, she's a television creator.
A travel writer, she's ablogger, she's an epic
adventurer, not only of theworld on her adventures, but
also an adventurer of the innerworld and how we can create our
(03:33):
life's most amazing experiencesby tuning in to what she calls
the divine buzz.
Pam's current focus is the 2 2 2Foundation, which she started to
honor her magical daughterTasmin, who has been guiding her
from the non physical since2018.
(03:53):
Pam was so fun to talk to, andwe're so excited about this
episode that we want to do agiveaway.
We are giving away three of myfavorite Pam Grout books.
All you have to do to enter thisgiveaway is rate and review the
Can We Start Over podcast.
(04:13):
Go to the Can We Start OverApple podcast page, scroll down
to ratings and reviews.
You'll see write a review, whichyou're going to click on.
Rate and write the review.
Grab a screenshot and then sendit over.
Just email
Britt (04:30):
it to Hello at, can we start over podcast.com or you
can send it to us on Instagramat, can we start over?
Lindsey (04:38):
Pod and boom, you're entered to win, not one, but
three of Pam's amazing books.
This giveaway closes on October31st, so make sure you get your
entries in, tell your friendsabout it, and good luck.
I know
Britt (04:52):
all your favorite podcast hosts ask you to rate their
podcast, but it really doeshelp.
It pushes forward the podcast somore people will listen.
So everyone
Lindsey (05:01):
wins.
Right now, I'm reading Pam'sbook called Art and Soul
Reloaded, which is all aboutreclaiming your bold, creative
side, and really, like all ofher books I've read, I'm
completely in love with it.
Creativity has nothing to dowith this idea of being perfect,
having the perfect idea, or theperfect business, or the perfect
(05:23):
amount of time.
We actually find our trueessence in the messiness that is
creation.
It's the lack of perfection thatmakes creating so darn perfect.
So what if you could feel tappedinto your creative essence all
the time?
So you could not only dive intoyour creative project
(05:43):
unapologetically, but also liveyour life like each step is a
creative masterpiece.
I believe that creativity is akey to deep healing and
fulfillment and that without it,Life just passes us by while we
wait for the perfect time tostart.
I want to invite you, dearlisteners, to a deep dive into
(06:04):
your creative essence with me onOctober 19th.
Touching In to Creativity is alive experiential and communal
workshop that I created and I'mso excited to share with you.
You're not just gonna sitlistening to another lecture
while you zone out for twohours.
You'll tune into your felt sensethrough an embodied movement
(06:27):
practice, clarify your creativevision through visualization and
inquiry practices, you'llconnect with your personal
guides and muses, and you willleave feeling like a creative
force.
I'll share with you anincredibly effective and potent
process to get that creativezing back into your life.
(06:50):
I'd love to see you there.
Touching Into Creativity happenson October 19th, and if you
can't make it live, the replaywill be available.
So take your seat and reclaimyour wild creative essence by
following the link in the shownotes.
We're so excited to share thistalk with you.
Follow Pam on Instagram at PamGrout or check out her website,
(07:15):
pamgrout.
com for all the things she'sworking on now.
All right, let's do it.
Pam Grout (07:22):
Oh, hi.
Yeah, it's
Lindsey (07:24):
beautiful there.
Yeah, us too.
It's kind of funny.
We, we just moved here twomonths ago and before that we
were traveling with your familyfor three, for nine months.
We have three kids.
It's, When we were driving fromTexas to here in March to just
to visit.
We're from Texas.
Yeah, we're from Texas.
We found your audio book, Coursein Miracles Experiment.
(07:46):
I don't know if I mentioned thatin the email that I sent you.
We were already interested inCourse in Miracles, but honestly
like weren't like too studied init.
We knew about it from PeteHolmes.
who we listen to his podcast,and he lives here and now we
know him.
So we listened to your book andI don't know, it just was so
easy to understand that it feltlike a friend was telling me
(08:09):
about A Course in Miracles.
And then I was like, I'm sohooked on Pam Grout.
Britt (08:15):
We looked you up immediately in the car.
We were like, she sounds likeus.
Like, where is she from?
Lindsey (08:23):
And then you live in Kansas.
My mom just moved to Kansas ayear ago.
There was like all these, thesynchronicities were all there.
Wow.
Pam Grout (08:30):
Where'd your mom move to in Kansas?
Lindsey (08:33):
Um, Lawrence.
Pam Grout (08:35):
Oh, hey, that's where I live.
So, hey, maybe you'll come visither and we can all meet in
person.
Lindsey (08:41):
We spent a month here in Ojai in March, and I listened
to, listened to A Course inMiracles experiment, listened to
Thank and Grow Rich like threetimes, just had it like every
morning I'd be like, this is mybook, and then E Squared,
listened to that.
Anyway, you've really, you'vebeen a part of our travels in
this way that you didn't knowabout.
(09:02):
So, thank you.
Pam Grout (09:04):
Yeah, well, thanks for taking me along.
It sounds really fun.
I'm so glad I went to Californiaand back and it sounds like I
went all kinds of places.
Anyway, thanks for
Lindsey (09:14):
inviting me along.
Thailand, Japan, Australia,Hawaii.
You were all, you were there thewhole time.
Britt (09:20):
It's funny you actually quoted Pete Holmes in that book.
And when we got here, we raninto Pete, like, almost
immediately.
And I was like, hey, Pete, we,we're actually listening to this
book on A Course in Miracles,and they quoted you.
And he got really excited,because he was like, well, they
must have quoted me before I waseven into A Course in Miracles,
(09:41):
because of the timeline there.
And that got him really excited,too, because we found out about
it through him.
Pam Grout (09:47):
Oh, that's great.
Well, yeah, I used to listen tohis podcast quite a bit.
I haven't kept up with what he'sdoing lately, but, um, I do like
him a lot.
I knew he lived in California.
I didn't know he lived in Ojai.
So that's awesome.
Well, you know, Byron Katie,somebody I've followed for a
long time.
And of course she lives in Ojaiand I came to Ojai and did her.
I can't remember if it's a nineday school for the work or ten
(10:09):
day school for the work, butanyway, so that's where we were,
was in Ojai, so that's why Iknow it.
And I had a good friend thatlived there for a long time too,
so.
Yeah,
Lindsey (10:17):
we also love Byron Katie.
She's amazing.
Yeah, I saw her in the healthfood store and we like had a
little fangirl moment.
I was like, it's Byron Katie.
Pam Grout (10:28):
Well, I've been a fan for a moment with seeing Pete
Holmes, too, I think, so.
Yeah,
Lindsey (10:33):
yeah, yeah, true, exactly, yeah.
So, yeah, our podcast is allabout starting over, the journey
we went on, and then we love totalk to other people that
inspired us in some way to startover, or that are just, like,
doing...
really cool things and livingauthentically.
And so we always like to startby hearing a little bit about
(10:54):
your starting over story.
And that can just be, I know weall have a million, so maybe
it's like, whatever feels truejust right now.
Pam Grout (11:03):
Well, you know, the first thing that came to mind
when you asked that is I reallywant to start over every moment,
but particularly every day, youknow, it's like each day.
You know, there's 24 hours oneach day and it's so fun to wake
up and think, what is going tohappen today?
And to just surrender to thatpossibility.
(11:25):
So starting over the firstthought I had was that, yeah,
well, I, I believe in startingover every, every day, you know,
more or less, but as far as bigstarting overs, I've always had
a pretty.
And, and, um, haven't done thatmajor.
Oh, I'm starting over, but Ihave lived in different places
(11:45):
and that's in a sense isstarting over and, um, you know,
I became a mother when I was 37and that was starting over and
then also, um, you know, mydaughter passed and so that was
a starting over, so I've had.
You know, quite a few startingover moments.
It would be big that might fitinto what you're talking about
in the podcast.
(12:06):
But I do believe, you know, I, Italk sometimes about, I know
mind like, Oh, every time we usethe mind that thinks it knows we
miss all the possibilities thatare out there, you know, in the,
in the bigger universe.
So that's why I like the idea ofstarting over every moment, like
being like a child being, youknow, Not knowing what
(12:28):
everything is.
I mean, Byron Katie talks aboutthat a lot, you know, like first
generation reality, not, youknow, the reality that we impose
on the world, like, oh, okay, Iunderstand.
That's a tree.
And then we have, you know, allof our beliefs about what a tree
is.
But if you don't lay that overthe top of it, then, you know,
it can be anything.
So, um, so I guess, I don'tknow.
(12:49):
That's how I would answer.
How do I start over?
Lindsey (12:52):
That's amazing.
Yeah.
So were you always interested inA Course in Miracles or in
Living the Truth that we startover each morning or when did
that kind of seed for you?
Well, I began
Pam Grout (13:06):
The Course in Miracles.
Oh, wow.
When was it?
I went to Big Sur in CaliforniaI went to Esalen and I did a
month long program.
This is back when I was I don'tknow, really young or seems
young now, probably older thanyou guys are, but anyway, um,
and the, the 30 day program thatI did was about the Course in
(13:27):
Miracles and this amazing guynamed Julian Silverman and he
was one of the founders ofEsalen or he was in, you know,
from the beginning with, uh,Michael, can't remember that
guy's name, but you know, thatstarted Esalen back in the day.
So, yeah.
Julian has gone on to otherrealms by now.
But anyway, it was a wonderfulprogram with Course in Miracles.
And I think I chose that becauseI had just done a community
(13:48):
university class where the, um,the teacher had given, given us
the assignment to read the book.
Uh, love is letting go of fear,which was Gerald Jempolsky's
book that he referred to as theCourse in Miracles.
So I thought, Oh, that'sinteresting.
I like.
What I'm hearing about force ofmiracles, but as far as you
asked, when did I start thisway?
I grew up in a very traditional,um, religious family.
(14:10):
In fact, my father was aMethodist minister.
So I was taught, you know, kindof the traditional, we're all
born into sin or whatever.
You know, falling short of theglory of God.
I mean, I remember that versevery well.
So that was kind of mybackground growing up.
And as soon as I got away fromthat, you know, I was, again, my
dad was a minister, he left theministry when I was 16, my
(14:32):
parents divorced.
So that already shook some ofthe, you know, some of the
groundwork of my life when thathappened.
But then when I went off tocollege, I was just completely
open minded to anything and Iwas, um, you know, exploring
and, you know, wanting otherthings.
And it was probably at thatpoint where I really.
Just little by little startedgetting interested in a bigger
(14:54):
picture than the one I wastaught as a child.
So I would say, but I've been ona continuous journey since
college and that was a long timeago.
So I've been interested in thisfor a long time.
And part of my journey too isbeing a writer.
You know, I have always feltthat that was my purpose in life
was to write and to expressmyself.
(15:14):
And kind of the truce that I amtaking in and, and really just
to be a satellite dish for, youknow, the bigger thing.
So, I've been on that journey,like kind of an artistic journey
as well as on a spiritualjourney.
And in some ways there's nodifference, but those would be
my two paths that have alwaysintrigued me, that I've
followed.
My curiosity has encouraged meto follow.
Lindsey (15:35):
I love that you said the big thing.
I know you call it a lot ofthings, the big thing.
Yeah.
The dude, the FP, the field ofpotentiality.
How do you feel that?
How do you sense that that is,how do you know when you're like
being guided by the big thing?
Pam Grout (15:53):
A lot of different ways.
I feel it a lot out in nature.
Like, you know, looking at that,I don't know if you guys happen
to see the super moon.
I don't know what your skieswere like at the time, the super
moon was that last week of itbefore, but you know, just being
out there and looking at thatmoon is like, how could we
possibly believe that?
Our little material lives areit, you know, when you look at
(16:13):
that beautiful moon.
Um, but one thing I've noticedthat's kind of interesting for
me, I'm a journaler, and I'vejournaled forever.
I mean, you know, like, I don'tknow, probably since I was in
college, so a long, long time.
And sometimes, you know, I'lloften write in cursive and
sometimes I'll notice that I'msuddenly writing and printing,
you know, as opposed to writingin cursive.
(16:34):
And oftentimes that might besomething that I'm meant to
remember or to pay moreattention to.
So that's kind of an interestingthing that happens for me.
Um, because often, I mean, thetruth of it is I can't always
even read my own cursor forhiding, you know, when I'm
journaling.
So I think, you know, the fieldof potentiality or God or
whatever you want to call itsays, you need to slow down here
(16:55):
and you need to print thisbecause this is something you
need to remember.
So I sometimes have guidance inthat way, but I do connect with
the bigger thing when I, I love,you know, talking with other
people about this.
Like I love having conversationsabout this.
I always say, this is the onlyconversation that really
matters.
So, anyway, I feel the field ofinfinite potentiality right now
(17:16):
talking to you guys, so.
There's so many ways to connect.
I mean, how can you not connect?
It's here, it's everywhere, youknow?
But,
Lindsey (17:24):
yeah.
True.
And, I mean, and so many peopledon't, you know?
And that's what we really wantto have this conversation with
you.
For someone who, like, wants tofeel that, like, they know
there's something there, butthey don't feel connected to it.
Do you ever, like, have advicefor those people?
(17:44):
A lot
of
Pam Grout (17:45):
it goes to slowing down.
Because I think once, you know,if you're going really fast in
your mind, you know, in yourlife, you, you skip right by a
lot of things.
I mean, I told the story in, um,eSquared about this woman who
was so frustrated she waswaiting at the airport for the
bus, you know, that took peopleback to the parking lot where
(18:06):
they parked their cars.
And it literally circled, myfriend was sitting there
watching, and it circled threetimes, and she couldn't even see
it because she was so, I meanthat's just a small little
example, but since I wrote thatin eSquared, I've had a lot of
people send me, Stories how theytoo miss something that was
right there.
And so not only do we miss, youknow, the bigger thing, but we
(18:27):
even miss the material things inour life.
A lot of times when we're somuch in our mind and we're
rushing around and we'refrantically doing this or that.
So I think it's pretty easy todo that.
So I think slowing down, I thinkpaying attention to your breath
is a good way to do that.
I feel like gratitude is a goodway to connect with the bigger
(18:47):
thing, because when you're in astate of gratitude.
You're really more on thatfrequency, so to speak, that
we're the, the dude, whateverthe bigger thing is.
So gratitude is another bigpractice of mine that I feel is
very important and really canlead you to some of those, the,
you know, the divine guidancethat's always available for us.
Britt (19:09):
And I really, really appreciate your wording there
too.
I grew up in a family thatwasn't religious at all and Now
in my older age, I've kind ofdiscovered spirituality.
So I've always had that likereligious baggage The dude is
right up my alley.
So
Pam Grout (19:25):
I like that.
I know I love that I was what Iwas gonna say is I feel like for
so many people spirituality isvery Serious solemn, um, you
know, all these rules.
And I think part of the reason Icall it the dude and call it so
many different names is I thinkif we want it to be sustainable,
right, we want to continue to dothis.
(19:45):
And I think if we make it.
more fun if we lighten up abouteverything.
I mean, that's what we're goingfor.
Like in the course of miracles,the light, you know, I am the
light of God.
So lightness also has to do withhow serious we take life.
So if we look at life in a lighthearted manner, I think we're
also closer to that frequency ofGod.
So I do tend to, you know, callit the dude or whatever.
(20:09):
And just the way I word thingsis some people think I'm very
irreverent and sacrilegious, youknow, because of some of the
crazy examples that I use.
But to me, it's the truth.
And, um, it's fun to do it in a,in a more lighthearted manner.
To write in a more light heartedmanner.
Yeah.
It makes it sustainable.
Right.
Lindsey (20:27):
Yeah, yeah.
We have like, enough seriousnessas adults.
You know?
Really getting back.
That's why I like that youmentioned slowing down.
It just reminded me of being aparent and how I can, my mind
can be like, Oh, well, once allof these things are done, then,
then I can slow down or once,once X, Y, Z, then, then we'll
(20:50):
be like happy or something, youknow, how the mind does.
And really it's like slowingdown right there and just
playing or look, just looking atmy kids and being like, look at
these little miracles that arejust hanging out, playing Legos.
It's so true.
That's where I really feel likethe dude, you know?
Pam Grout (21:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I feel like children areour best teachers.
And I think that, you know, howso many things are upside down,
how we've approached life.
And I think, you know, when ourchildren are born to us, we need
to pay more attention to them.
You know, they're like, Oh,look, there's a ladybug.
I mean, they're just looking ateverything they're observing.
They're aware of all themiracles, but very quickly we
(21:31):
teach them, no, you need to dothis.
And here's the rules andwhatever.
So I think children are our bestteachers.
I wrote a blog post once about acouple of stories about kids
that I just really loved.
We were out walking, um, one dayduring the pandemic, my partner
and I, and there was this littlefamily and this one boy, this
one of the little boys hadstopped and he was paying
(21:54):
attention to a caterpillar and,you know, he's just looking at
it and the family, come on, comeon, we got to go.
And so he, he leans down to thecaterpillar and he goes.
It was so nice to talk to you.
I love you.
Goodbye.
I mean, just, you know, justthat it was just so sweet.
Then there was another kid thatwas back in the, in his, in her,
in his mom's car.
And he was saying, mom, I havethis confetti in my pocket.
(22:17):
And she said, why do you haveconfetti in your pocket?
He says, well, when there'ssomething to celebrate, I'll be
ready.
So I thought that was, but yeah,kids just, I don't know.
They're, they're in the moment.
They're, they're recognizing Godall the time.
The dude.
Yeah.
Lindsey (22:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you were already versed,you, you already, it sounds like
you were on some kind ofcuriosity path when you became a
mother.
Did that I was.
In fact, I was out How did this
Pam Grout (22:47):
change you?
Yeah, tell me.
Well, I was out in Connecticutand I had just finished a six
month program on Rebirthing,which is a breathing practice.
It's not necessarily Rebirthingand I had finished that program
and this friend of mine saidhey, I'm going to this psychic
from California I was inConnecticut at the time.
She was you want to go along andI said sure, you know, I'll go
(23:08):
I'm always up for fun adventure.
So she's going around thecircle, you know to each person
and telling what their next pathin life is And when she came to
me, she says, the psychic says,I don't know that you're going
to like this, but your next pathin life is motherhood.
And so, you know, we walk out ofthere and I said to my friend,
that psychic is full of baloney.
There is no way.
(23:29):
I mean, you know, I'm, you know,37, I'm, you know, actively
traveling and writing.
And sure enough, I was pregnantsoon thereafter.
And indeed, that was my nextpath.
So, um, Anyway, you know, and I,I was a single mom and, you
know, had my, in fact, one ofthe stories I tell, if you guys
(23:51):
have read the Course in MaritalSuccess, I really had known
about it for a while, but Ibegan to practice it in earnest
when I was seven monthspregnant, driving across the
country, you know, because itdidn't work out with her father.
And it's like, you know what?
Clearly something needs tochange here.
So I, even though I've been, youknow, practicing the Course in
(24:13):
Miracles, I began to really takeits messages.
To heart and I really began topractice them and you know, one
thing led to another it was agreat experience and being
Tasman's mom.
I feel like she was the greatestgift.
Um, you know, that I've had inthis lifetime.
So anyway, that was a kind of abig surprise and talk about, uh,
changing your life.
(24:34):
It definitely changed mine,right?
Lindsey (24:36):
And you were already a writer at that time you were
traveling, doing all of thethings that you're going to do.
Yes.
Pam Grout (24:42):
I've been a writer from the very beginning.
Did
Lindsey (24:46):
your early experience in early motherhood, did it
shift?
The way you traveled, or writingat the time, or did it just all
kind of enfold together?
Well, I made it work.
Pam Grout (25:00):
I mean, I got a lot of pressure from people at that
time, Pam, you need to go get areal job.
Because you know, I've beenfreelancing for a long time, and
you know, when you're justtaking care of yourself, you
know, that's fine.
But um, once I became pregnant,I was going to have this
daughter to raise, peoplethought, you need to get a real
job.
But I stuck with my Myintention, which was to continue
(25:20):
to be a writer.
And again, I appointed God, theCEO of my career.
And I said, Hey, you know what?
This is a pretty unstablebusiness, but if, if I'm going
to make this work, you're goingto be the boss.
So I turned it all over to thehigher power.
And indeed it has all worked outfor me.
Um, there were times my gosh,how am I going to pay the rent?
(25:41):
And some miraculous thing wouldhappen.
Just always, I was taken careof.
I was always guided.
I was always.
Blessed and taken care of allalong the way.
I mean, if you look at my story,you know, Oh, this woman, she's
seven months pregnant, shedoesn't have a home.
I mean, what's going to happen,but it all worked out, you know,
just step by step by step.
(26:01):
And I think, you know, that I,that I know mind that I was
talking about earlier, it'slike, everyone would say, Hey,
that's, that's a terriblesituation.
You're driving across thecountry.
You're seven months pregnant.
You have where you don't knowwhere you're going, but I didn't
feel that somehow I just had asense that everything was going
to be fine.
And indeed everything was fine.
(26:23):
So, um, anyway, I guess that'sone of the things I've always
been able to do is to lookbeyond, you know, like the
general narrative that wouldsay.
This is a real problem wherethis is, you know, you need to
be more afraid than you are.
So anyway, it was, uh, you know,there's, it's definitely Sounds
kind of challenging and yeah,there were moments.
It was challenging.
But again being guided and Ledto just the right things just
(26:47):
the right people at just theright time
Lindsey (26:49):
What is one of those just the right people places
times that is coming to mind foryou right
Pam Grout (26:55):
now?
Originally, when I was drivingmy little blue Toyota across the
country with the air conditioneron the fritz, I was planning to
go to Breckenridge because afriend of mine knew about a home
that was actually for sale, butit was sitting there, you know,
until it sold.
So I was going to head there andI was going to raise taz in
Breckenridge, but you know, I'mdriving across the country,
(27:16):
stopping to see various friends.
And then.
An old boss of mine, I used towrite fundraising letters for
her.
She said, Hey, I've got thisbig, big house.
You can just stay here while youhave the baby.
I mean, you know, you're walkingaround seven months, maybe eight
months by the time I gotpregnant.
So, you know, that happenedright then that was perfect.
(27:36):
And I stayed with her for a fewmonths and then, you know, I
rented an apartment and just,you know, one thing led to
another, but I ended up staying.
She was in Kansas, which is, youknow, I was heading to Colorado
because I had left.
you know, Connecticut.
I have kind of a weird thing.
I have lived in every state thatbegins with a C, you know, and
(27:56):
every state that begins with aK.
And this is not like I plannedthat, you know, but that's just
kind of how it has worked out.
Lindsey (28:04):
What does God do as your CEO?
And what do those meetings look
Pam Grout (28:09):
like?
Well, I don't know that we haveofficial meetings.
Sometimes I'll go, Hey, I needyour help right now.
I mean, it's more like that kindof a meeting, not a, uh, let's
sit down and have a chat kind ofthing.
It's more like, yeah.
And, you know, as I'm, you know,developed in my journey, I trust
more and more that what, what isbrought to me each day, like we
(28:31):
were talking about starting overeach day, you know, God is
providing.
I keep, sorry.
I keep using that word dial thedude is providing.
Each day.
And so it's, I don't know, it'sjust trusting that, you know,
and I don't need to have allthese big intentions or
whatever, because I just trustso much that the right things
(28:53):
and again, the right people, allthis will come into my life.
So it's a matter of justtrusting that this beneficent
force has my back and that Ijust have to tune in and pay
attention.
Lindsey (29:05):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutbalancing that trust with.
Also, creating reality throughthought, through intention.
How do you hold both?
Because it seems like...
Well, what I've
Pam Grout (29:20):
come to realize is most of what I think I need and
want is usually pales incomparison to what the bigger
thing thinks I need and want.
So, I am pretty open to that.
You know, back when I wasyounger, I was really big into
manifesting.
And of course, you know, Esquared's all about manifesting.
(29:41):
And I wrote a blog post oncethat I think really explains it
all how there's four stages ofKind of spiritual development
and the first stage is like ohmy god There's nothing out
there.
The second one is wow.
I can kind of get this force todo my Do my bidding and then
you, you gain confidence inthat.
And then, um, the third stage, Idon't remember what that was,
but eventually in the fourthstage, you just are so
(30:04):
surrendered.
You know, that there's nothingbut God.
There's nothing but the dude andit's all perfect.
You've just totally surrenderedto that.
But so I think that manifestingpiece is kind of more like on
the second wrong.
You know, you, you need to knowthat you need to realize that
you interact with the doing thatyou animate into your life, what
you focus upon.
I mean, that is a fact that's a.
(30:24):
You know a scientific factthat's what I would call it.
But so we animate into our lifewhatever we focus upon And if we
focus upon problems, which iskind of the state of the world,
then, you know, we'll get lotsof problems.
If we focus on possibilities,then we get a lot of
possibilities.
So I was talking about problemstate or possibility state.
So, I just prefer to stay inpossibility state and let the
(30:45):
dude handle the details.
Lindsey (30:48):
Yeah, I love that.
And I, cause, I, I guess becauseI see in, in the language around
manifestation, especially causeit's like such a.
Um, forced feeling around it, orlike, uh, I need to have exactly
(31:08):
whatever I thought that gets alittle limp.
It's limiting because really,there's this like much bigger
field of love.
And so I love that you'resaying, just focus on creating
the good and kind of, and thenmore or less see what happens
and trust that you're being led.
(31:29):
I love that.
Thank you.
Right.
Well, I
Pam Grout (31:31):
have what, you know, four main intentions these days,
and they're just real simple.
Peace of mind.
You know, that's what the Coursein Miracles promises.
Peace of mind.
Surety of purpose.
You know that I know what mypurpose is.
Clear unmistakable guidance.
So when there is something forme to do or there is something
for me to write or something forme to say that I will recognize
(31:52):
that I meant to do that.
And then the fourth one isunceasing joy, which is what the
Course in Miracles does promise.
And that one's the hardest onefor most people to get their
minds around like what unceasingjoy Everybody knows life's a
roller coaster, right?
But again, that's how weCollapse the wave to believe
that and so of course that'smaybe the way it is But I do
believe there's a bigger picturewhere we can live in unceasing
(32:16):
joy.
Britt (32:17):
I was curious Do you have any exercises and creativity for
like pulling inspiration fromthe source?
Pam Grout (32:25):
Well, you know, I wrote a book called art and soul
Reloaded well, I wrote a bookart and soul And then it went
out of print, but then wereleased it.
Well, I changed it up a littlebit called art and soul
reloaded.
And in there, I have some, Iguess you'd call them.
I don't like to talk, call themexercises.
Cause that sounds kind of like,Oh, you got to do it, but just
some practices that you can do.
(32:47):
But my biggest thing is really.
Just to show up and say, okay,dude, what am I, what do you
want me to write?
What are you kind of showing up?
You need to prove to the muses.
If you want to call them thatthe dude that you're serious,
that you really are willing tobe the secretary, because again,
You know, my highest writing iswhen I'm a satellite dish, you
(33:07):
know, I'm just bringing inwhatever, you know, the dude
wants me to write about.
So, but you do have to show up.
So I guess that would be, um,the only advice I'm not one at
all for giving advice.
I feel like what works for oneperson may not work for another
person.
And I feel like in some ways,you know, the whole self help
thing, and I know my books areclassified as self help.
(33:29):
But I feel like we each find itin our own way and we each find
it with our connection with thebigger thing.
So what might work for oneperson may not work for the
other person.
But I think just being open,being willing and being there,
you know, is kind of the best,um, exercise, I guess, if you
want to call it that.
Lindsey (33:50):
Yeah, I actually just started listening to Art and
Soul this week and it's, it'samazing and it really, because
I'm also, I'm doing the artist'sway right now for the first
time.
I've done a lot of automaticwriting but never, like, With
the book and I just read, uh,Stephen Pressfield's, um, War of
(34:11):
Art.
Are you familiar with that?
That's such a great book.
He's incredible.
He was on Pete's podcastrecently.
That's where I heard him.
And I, I was familiar with him,but I.
bought the book, never, youknow, didn't read it.
So I was like, I'm going to readit.
He talks about the muse too.
You meant when, as soon as yousaid the muse in the book, art
and soul, and now you just saidit, I'm like, Oh yeah, it, it
(34:32):
all.
It's like everything I need tohear right now is show up, ask
for guidance.
But like, you have to kind of,you have to show up what I am
personally learning as someonewho's more of like, uh, or has
been known to be someone that'slike, uh, A little more task
oriented in my former whateveris like showing up for my
(34:53):
creative flow or vision firstbefore I then do all the things
that need to be done in thehouse or before I like check
emails because it gets you Getsucked in I I won't say you I'll
say I Get like sucked into allof these things I need to do,
which are mostly meaningless.
Everyone still has cleanunderwear.
(35:14):
There is still food.
So to like make sure that, youknow, it's all folded or
whatever it is, or to make surethat all the emails checked when
most of it's trash.
So you and Steven Pressfield,and then also doing the artist's
way, those three things are,it's like, I need them right now
to remember that creativitycomes first.
And it actually is what givesthe other things energy for me,
(35:38):
because then I show up to momand I feel good.
I'm like, I'm excited.
Pam Grout (35:44):
Yeah, Gandhi used to say that if he had a really busy
day, that he needed to meditatea little bit extra, because then
he would find more time.
And meditate, you could replaceit with, you know, do your
spiritual practice, yourcreativity practice, whatever it
would be, but to connect.
To that bigger thing becausewhatever you're doing With that
(36:04):
bigger thing kind of thereguiding you, it's going to be so
much better and life just kindof flows easier.
But I know when you've got, yousaid three kids, that's, that's
a lot to think about, you know,and a lot to focus on, but I
think you can be better there.
You can be there for them bettertoo, as you're, you know, kind
of staying in touch with yourhigher self.
Lindsey (36:22):
Yeah, yeah, well, because once you know, once you
kind of like tune into how youwant life to feel and or again,
I'll say for me once I tunedinto like how I want life to
feel how I want to express mylife and live in in joy.
It just, it just kind of likeflips everything on its head and
(36:43):
it really makes me like rethinkresponsibility.
Also, what am I responsible toif I also have these creative
visions and this idea that likefeels like it's going, you know,
it could go somewhere, even ifit's just going that going
somewhere into one otherperson's ear or no one else's
ear.
Pam Grout (37:03):
Exactly.
How can we show up, just show upas the best person, the highest
version of yourself, and, youknow, when you are connected in
that way, it definitely helps dothat.
Lindsey (37:13):
I do want to circle back to that idea of, of, like,
the unending joy.
I can't remember exactly whatyou just called it.
Pam Grout (37:23):
Unceasing joy, yes.
Lindsey (37:27):
Joy, yes, holding that as an intention when, like you
said, life is a roller coasterand there's some things that
happen that are hard, right?
Pam Grout (37:39):
And I think one of the reasons I love Byron Katie
so much, you know, we're talkingabout her earlier, is she always
says.
The unhappiness isn't happeningin the events that happen.
It's happening in our heads, inthe story that we're telling
about that.
You know, this shouldn't havehappened.
I don't like this.
(37:59):
Get me out of here.
Those are all the ego's voicetrying to keep us from our
natural state of joy.
Because our natural state, youknow, our true self, who we are,
is joyful.
Um, but the ego is constantlyhas this little narrative going
that says.
You shouldn't be here.
(38:20):
This shouldn't be happening.
This is all unfair.
I mean, just the ego goes on andon and on, you know, that voice
in our head.
Um, so that's kind of the thingthat keeps us from that.
But I do feel that, uh, youknow, to really know who we are,
once we're really true to ourauthentic self, that is how we
will live in joy and peace.
(38:41):
And that's, you know, myintention.
So, yeah, that's why I have thatintention.
Lindsey (38:45):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, what about when, like, thebig things happen when you, when
you lose a child or, you know,these, like, heartbreaks?
Well,
Pam Grout (38:58):
it definitely is heartbreaking.
It is completely shatteringevery single thing in your life.
So yes, it is.
Those things can be.
Very difficult.
Well, it makes you look at lifein a whole different way.
And you know, again, with thatbeing my intention, this, it, it
(39:19):
can, it's something that helpsyou look at life in a whole
different way for sure.
So I've had to, you know, thecourse of miracles always says
that who we really are is notthis body.
This body is an imposter thatjust here.
You know, temporarily, whatever.
So who we really are is the loveand the joy and the light.
That's the truth of who we are.
So, by society's narrative, yes,my daughter is not here anymore.
(39:45):
But the essence of who she is,the light and the joy and the
love, is still very much here.
So, it really helps you widen,to broaden your perspective when
something like that happens.
Um, I mean, she's just, I, Ilove my daughter just as much as
I ever did.
I get signs from her on theregular.
(40:07):
I mean, like literally everyfirst of the month I get a sign
from her.
Um, I also get a lot of two totwos.
I started a foundation in herhonor.
I feel like she and I work inthe, on the foundation together.
So it's just.
Again, it's our thoughts and ourbeliefs, as Byron Katie says,
that keep us from that joy.
(40:27):
And certainly, there's a lot ofthoughts and beliefs around
losing a child that, that couldDefinitely get in the way of, of
feeling the unceasing joy.
And I, I'm not here to say that,Oh yeah, I just sailed right
through it.
It was easy.
It was very, very, verydifficult.
But again, I'm not a fullyrealized person, you know, I'm
still, I'm still, um, intendingthese things and, you know,
(40:51):
moving in that direction andtrying to be more expansive all
the time.
So, um, you know, I'm doing, Ijust do the best that I can.
And again, turn it over to thedude and trust that, you know,
The bigger thing has Has my backand knows what it's doing.
So anyway,
Lindsey (41:08):
yeah going back to the I know Like that you that we
don't know, you know We we can'tknow and that I'm not my body.
But also I am a human right nowSo, I think I'm supposed to be
here just taking theseexperiences and lessons and
(41:28):
ingesting them, alchemizing themto get back to that love and
joy.
And that it's not, yeah, and itmight not always look pretty.
Pam Grout (41:40):
It might not always look pretty according to the
narrative that we've all boughtinto.
You know, I talk a lot about,you know, collapsing the wave
and...
You know, that's a quantumphysics term.
And once you collapse the waveor you set up your neural
pathways in your brain, and weall do it, we have our limited
narrative about the way thingsare meant to be.
And so anything that isdifferent than that, that
(42:01):
doesn't fit into that can bevery painful.
So, um, that's part of thereason that I try to surrender
my story, my beliefs as much asI possibly can, and try to get
into.
I don't know mind.
I said in one of my books orblogs or something that my hero
was, um, Sergeant Schultz fromHogan's Heroes, and you guys may
(42:23):
be too young to remember that,but it was about these guys that
were prisoner of war in, inGermany.
And so anyway, this guy,Sergeant Schultz would always
say to his, Colonel Klink waslike the, you know, the bad guy
that had these guys in prison.
And he'd say, I know nothing.
And so he would say that, andthat's like, okay, that's my
mantra, that's my hero, I knownothing.
(42:44):
All I know is that I'm here atthis moment, and I'm going to do
the best that I can with it.
Lindsey (42:50):
Going back to this idea of, like, really the essence of
starting over, and, and I also,I mean, our experience is like,
starting over doesn't need to bea challenge.
It can be like, oh, I want to dothis new thing, and starting
over in that way.
And like really flipping itaround.
I'm like, Oh, I.
(43:10):
get to do something new andexciting if I follow the call?
How, how can someone who wantsto start over, whether it's
start studying A Course inMiracles, whether it's become a
writer or start traveling orjust the millions of things that
people can do, you know, makepurses, um, start painting, bake
(43:32):
cookies and give them out topeople or like, Dance in the
grocery store.
There's literally a millionthings that we can do and say,
this is, this is the real me,you know, how can people
implement these.
teachings that you give and you,I like that you say it's not
advice, it's your experience andsomeone will use it differently,
but how can they take what youare here to express and utilize
(43:57):
it for their own starting over?
Pam Grout (43:59):
Well, I think, you know, you heard that, that
saying, it says jump and the netwill appear or leap and the net
will appear.
I think we hang on so tight.
To what we know, even when it'spainful, even when it's not
working out for us.
But when you mentioned thatabout starting over can be
exciting.
I mean, really, when you thinkabout it, that's super exciting.
(44:22):
I mean, you're doing somethingcompletely new.
I mean, why wouldn't that be soamazing?
But it's only that narrativethat says, we need to keep it
the same.
I need to stay safe.
I need to, you know, and it'sjust this belief that you're
safe when you keep doing thesame thing, that's not
necessarily safety, but again,it's a collapsed way that we
believe about the way it is.
(44:43):
So I think just to turn that onhis head, it's like.
Wow.
I am like, you guys are livingin a whole new place now.
And I don't know if you'relaunching a whole new business.
I'm not sure what all you'redoing, but that is so exciting.
Yes.
It's a little scary or it's alittle unknown, I guess, but
Hey, that is so cool.
And so when you approach it fromthat total excitement and wow,
(45:05):
what's going to happen, thatcuriosity.
that makes it really fun and Ithink we can do that with
whatever's happening in ourlife.
How, how can we make this reallyfun and to look at it that way?
Lindsey (45:16):
Yeah, yeah, and I just actually heard you say this in
the Course in Miraclesexperiment, but like seeing fear
and then just not, not lettingfear stop you and knowing like
there's fear, seeing it,witnessing it, and then being
like, and I'm going to walkright.
Past it or walk right throughit,
Pam Grout (45:35):
right?
I mean you can wave at it, youknow and say hi Yeah, I hear
you, but doesn't mean you haveto listen to it.
You know, whatever we put ourattention upon So if we put a
lot of our attention on thefear, I mean it just grows
whatever we're thinking aboutgrows So, you know if you
thought oh my gosh, this is soscary.
I shouldn't be doing this and ohmy what's gonna happen Then
(45:55):
it'll grow, but you can also,wow, this is so exciting.
This is so what's going to,what's going to happen, you
know, what's exciting going tohappen.
So, yeah, I think that's whereyou really do use that
discipline of, you know, what amI going to grow in my experience
in my mind?
And, uh, so yeah, that's wherewe have some power, I think, is
to truly focus on thepossibilities, not the problems.
Lindsey (46:20):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
And then for anyone who stillfeels those little, like, the
clinging thoughts, or theclinging to fear, and you
mentioned it, we hold on sotight, like, and we can get a
practice of letting go, but thenwe might notice we're clinging
somewhere else.
How do we just trust to let gomore, even more, after, even
(46:43):
after we've been doing it for awhile?
Pam Grout (46:45):
Well, I think as you start doing it, it becomes
easier and easier once you startseeing, wow, this wasn't a
disaster, or this, all thesethings that I worried were going
to happen did not happen.
So it's like, you know, workingany muscle, you start
surrendering, you start gettingexcited.
You start being curious about anew way of being.
(47:06):
And then you realize that allthose thoughts and crazy making
that you were doing in your headdidn't come to pass.
And so I think it gets easierand easier as you do it more and
more.
And I would say you guys, ifyou've totally picked up
everything and moved your,you're definitely.
You know, growing that muscle ofpossibility.
(47:26):
So, so good for you.
Lindsey (47:30):
Yeah.
One example I want to give ofjust a, well, another way that
you've kind of been on this tripwith us.
We were in Australia in June.
It was very last minute.
We were traveling and we werelike, let's go to Australia
next.
And then we got there and we'relike, it's winter.
And it was just, it wasobviously also like a winding
(47:51):
down of our traveling that maybewe were like holding on to the
idea, like almost in reverse,holding on to like, no, we need
to.
We were supposed to keep doingthis longer.
Anyway, we went to a bookstore,E squared was there.
I was like, okay, I'm going tobuy E squared, this bookstore in
Australia and like doing theexperiments.
(48:15):
I don't know.
I was just wanted, I was, I wasfeeling at that time.
like in a low spot because I waslike kind of bummed.
I think we're going to stoptraveling.
What am I, what's my work?
Where am I supposed to be?
All of those little questionsthat come up.
So I was so happy to have yourexperiments to just have fun
with and be light.
(48:37):
And one of them is the car, likeseeing a green, I think it says
a green car, but then you changeit to sunset beige or something.
You can do whatever you want.
Yeah, but when, but anyway, mycar was sunset orange, and then
the next day I freaking saw thisorange car in Australia and I
(48:57):
was like, all right, I guess I'mjust supposed to loosen up and
not try to, it really, the, itwas another way that I was
reminded that I was trying toforce or control my idea of what
was supposed to happen.
Pam Grout (49:14):
Yeah, I love those little synchronicities and sides
from the universe.
And I think once you startpaying attention, you see more
and more of them.
In fact, that was kind of thewhole purpose of E squared
really was, you know, I'm notsaying anything that hasn't been
said a million times before,including the Bible asking you
should find, you know, seekingit to be given to you, whatever
that is.
But it was saying, Let's payattention and let's give it a
(49:34):
time frame.
And so it just sort of jarspeople into recognizing, I
really am interacting with thisforce.
So I love those little signs andsynchronicities.
And I feel like they're thereall the time if we pay
attention.
And as we start paying moreattention, we find them more and
more.
In fact, one of the things Ioften say, you know, this book.
Came out 10 years ago.
(49:55):
And so since it came out, Imean, people send me these
letters and they start with, Oh,M G.
You are never going to believethis.
And so they're so excited.
I mean, in the beginning, whenthe book came out, I was getting
hundreds and hundreds andhundreds of emails with all
these great stories.
And so that right there helpedsolidify my belief.
I mean, I already believed it.
Obviously I'm writing about it.
(50:15):
But it's like, there is no doubtin my mind with all the
anecdotal evidence that I'vegotten of what people were given
all kinds of signs.
And as far as that car one, Ilove the stories, particularly
where people said, I'm not goingto do green cars or sunset beige
or whatever.
I am going to do, um, red carswith yellow polka dots, you
know, let's, let's, let's stepit up a notch.
(50:36):
And sure enough, they would findred cars with yellow polka dots.
Or one person said they weregoing to look for priests or
something in a, in a habit or,or whatever it is the priests
wear.
And they were, they went, theykept driving by churches and you
know, oh this, we know how to dothis, we'll find this.
And then the priest shows up ina totally unconventional way,
(50:56):
and now I don't remember how itwas, but so, you know, not only
do we make these intentions, andthen we figure out how this is
going to happen, and that's thatI know mind, which gets us in
trouble, so if we just sort oflet it go.
But I've had so many fun storiesfrom, from the experiments in
the book, so.
Yeah, that's been a realblessing in my life.
Awesome.
Britt (51:16):
So is there anything new in your life that feels like a
starting over?
Or is there anything you'reworking on that you would
consider maybe a starting over
Pam Grout (51:23):
point?
Well, you know, again, like Isaid, I'm always starting over.
I am, um, trying to learnSpanish.
You know, I spent, um, most ofthe summer in Spain.
And, uh, have been, you know,working on learning Spanish.
And I feel like, you know, youlearn a new language and it
opens you up to a whole notherworld in a sense.
(51:43):
So that's like one more way,like people that speak five
languages, you really, you know,you're, you really understand
the world in a, in a muchbroader way.
I think the people that speakone, like I do at this point, I
do speak Australian though, Imean, I.
I, I didn't, but that one'spretty easy.
So, but yes, um, so that I'm,you know, working on another
(52:06):
book again, you know, the ideaskeep coming and that's my job is
to be, you know, the satellitedish for the view.
So yes, I've, I've got a newbook and what this book that I'm
writing is about is just all theways that the ego tries to own
us, you know, the ego wants ourbrains thinking the way it wants
us to think instead of.
(52:27):
Recognizing this truth about whowe really are.
So that's the book that I wasgiven to write next.
So that's, that's my currentproject and every book you're
starting over, every projectyou're starting over, you know,
you go through the same thing.
Like, can I do this?
Will it happen for me this time?
I mean, it doesn't matter how, Imean, I had 20 books published
(52:47):
and you still have those, thatlittle voice, you know, that ego
trying to tell you, yeah, youfooled them, you know, you can't
do this.
But.
You know, you just can't listento that voice.
You have to just ignore it, say,thank you for sharing and move
on.
Britt (53:02):
That's exciting.
So we always end this with, uh,questions from our eight year
old twins.
So Eli's question is what arewalls made out of
Pam Grout (53:16):
walls?
Well, well, I mean, everything'smade out of energy and you know,
when you really break it down,there's really not even a wall
there.
It's like mostly air.
It's like, 99.
9 percent energy and then just alittle bit of material.
So that's a good question, Eli.
I like your question very much.
And, um, when you figure it out,let me know, because all I know
(53:38):
is it's energy moving and it'sbarely there and you can walk
through walls.
I believe I'm, you know, maybeEli will be doing that.
You know, he's as these youngerones are more advanced than me.
I still have that belief that Icannot walk through a wall, but.
I think Eli maybe do it.
Sorry parents, I guess Ishouldn't be encouraging that
kind of behavior.
It's
Lindsey (53:58):
fine.
They can try.
We're here for
Britt (54:02):
it.
So Jack's question is, Do youhave a secret lab with treasure,
a time machine, and ahoverboard?
You know,
Pam Grout (54:09):
I feel like in a way I do.
Um, I feel like I have atreasure with All those things
that I would want to do.
I mean, I've known people thathave hovered without a
hoverboard.
I've known people that, youknow, again, when you, when you
let go of the way you believethe world is, it's amazing what
else happens.
Okay.
Repeat the other things.
Cause I probably know someonethat's done each of those
(54:32):
things.
The time machine.
Yes.
I think you can go back in timeor go forward in time.
And I've, I've heard of peopledoing that.
And then what was the third onehe mentioned?
Let's see, it
Britt (54:41):
was Treasure, Hoverboard, and Time Machine.
Pam Grout (54:43):
Time Machine, yes.
I mentioned Time Machine, theHoverboard, and what was the
first one?
Treasure, yes.
I feel like we all havetreasure.
I mean, I walk out my door, Ilook out my window, and there's
treasures everywhere.
And I really love thosequestions, and I think that's so
cool that you guys let themparticipate.
It's a family affair.
I love it.
In fact, maybe we should letkids ask all the questions,
(55:06):
right?
I
Lindsey (55:07):
think so, too.
Yeah, we should do that episode,for sure.
This has been such a great talk.
Thank you so much, Pam.
Pam Grout (55:15):
Well, thank you.
Well, I'm excited to hear moreabout your journey in Ojai and
what's happening.
So, thank you for letting meplay a small part in it.
Lindsey (55:25):
Of course, yeah.
You've been on the trip since wedrove here, and I'm sure that
will continue.
Yeah,
Britt (55:31):
we were very excited that you agreed to come on the show.
It's meant a lot to us.
Yeah, well,
Pam Grout (55:36):
it's been fun.
Thank you so much.
Welcome to the Can We Start Over podcast.
Lindsey (00:16):
My name is Britt.
And my name is also Britt.
I just changed it today.
I got the paperwork in the mail.
So you're listening to Britt andBritt.
Ooh, I
Britt (00:25):
have been thinking about legally changing my name.
Lindsey (00:28):
To what?
Machiavelli.
Cutting out the first name.
Oh.
Yeah.
Really?
Yeah.
Because I feel like a lot ofprocess for...
Well, I'm just
Britt (00:39):
sick of, I don't like, I've never gone by my first
name, which is McElroy Valley.
But since it's my first Yeah,but since my f, since it's my
first name, it always comes up.
Joshua.
Joshua.
Is there a Joshua here?
Or whatever.
And like, I don't relate to thatname at all.
It doesn't feel like me.
I like it.
I don't like it.
Isn't not me.
Huh?
If I called you juicy, would yoube like's Not me.
(01:02):
You're just
Lindsey (01:03):
making that up on the spot.
That's That's different.
Yeah,
Britt (01:06):
you don't relate to
Lindsey (01:07):
Juicy, do you?
But you're just making up on thespot.
That's different.
Britt (01:11):
It's not different.
I didn't make up my name.
That was my choice.
Lindsey (01:16):
My name, my choice.
Anyway, my name is actuallyLindsay.
This is actually my husband,Britt.
You're listening to the Can WeStart Over podcast.
We are a married couple and, youknow, like a year ago, we sold
our house, we sold our stuff andwe went on a nine month travel
adventure with our three kids.
Not one, not two, but three ofthem.
(01:38):
And then we shared it with youguys here.
And along the way, we talked toother incredible people who
started over in their ownincredible way.
And now we're settling down.
We're starting our new startingover, which is starting a new
life in a new place.
And that's what you're listeningto.
Always be starting
Britt (01:59):
over, right?
And so maybe that's
Lindsey (02:01):
why ABS.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
Oh.
We appreciate you listening.
We hope you are finding value inour silliness, in our wackiness,
in our wildness.
And we have an amazing episodefor you today.
One that if you give a darn tootabout manifesting, which I do
(02:27):
and I don't, then best way to doit.
It's the best way to do it is todo and don't.
I do.
And there's definitely somethingbigger that even feels better.
Which is just being so freakingin love with life that it all
just happens naturally, but thisguest was actually a big
manifestation, I guess, if youwill, meaning that I just love
(02:51):
her and I think she's so cool.
Our guest today is Pam Grout.
The number one New York Timesbest selling author, she's
written over 20 books includingsome of my favorites, E Squared
and The Course in MiraclesExperiment, Pam Grout is a
writer who has published withScientific American
(03:11):
Explorations, People Magazine,Travel and Leisure to name a
few, she's a television creator.
A travel writer, she's ablogger, she's an epic
adventurer, not only of theworld on her adventures, but
also an adventurer of the innerworld and how we can create our
(03:33):
life's most amazing experiencesby tuning in to what she calls
the divine buzz.
Pam's current focus is the 2 2 2Foundation, which she started to
honor her magical daughterTasmin, who has been guiding her
from the non physical since2018.
(03:53):
Pam was so fun to talk to, andwe're so excited about this
episode that we want to do agiveaway.
We are giving away three of myfavorite Pam Grout books.
All you have to do to enter thisgiveaway is rate and review the
Can We Start Over podcast.
(04:13):
Go to the Can We Start OverApple podcast page, scroll down
to ratings and reviews.
You'll see write a review, whichyou're going to click on.
Rate and write the review.
Grab a screenshot and then sendit over.
Just email
Britt (04:30):
it to Hello at, can we start over podcast.com or you
can send it to us on Instagramat, can we start over?
Lindsey (04:38):
Pod and boom, you're entered to win, not one, but
three of Pam's amazing books.
This giveaway closes on October31st, so make sure you get your
entries in, tell your friendsabout it, and good luck.
I know
Britt (04:52):
all your favorite podcast hosts ask you to rate their
podcast, but it really doeshelp.
It pushes forward the podcast somore people will listen.
So everyone
Lindsey (05:01):
wins.
Right now, I'm reading Pam'sbook called Art and Soul
Reloaded, which is all aboutreclaiming your bold, creative
side, and really, like all ofher books I've read, I'm
completely in love with it.
Creativity has nothing to dowith this idea of being perfect,
having the perfect idea, or theperfect business, or the perfect
(05:23):
amount of time.
We actually find our trueessence in the messiness that is
creation.
It's the lack of perfection thatmakes creating so darn perfect.
So what if you could feel tappedinto your creative essence all
the time?
So you could not only dive intoyour creative project
(05:43):
unapologetically, but also liveyour life like each step is a
creative masterpiece.
I believe that creativity is akey to deep healing and
fulfillment and that without it,Life just passes us by while we
wait for the perfect time tostart.
I want to invite you, dearlisteners, to a deep dive into
(06:04):
your creative essence with me onOctober 19th.
Touching In to Creativity is alive experiential and communal
workshop that I created and I'mso excited to share with you.
You're not just gonna sitlistening to another lecture
while you zone out for twohours.
You'll tune into your felt sensethrough an embodied movement
(06:27):
practice, clarify your creativevision through visualization and
inquiry practices, you'llconnect with your personal
guides and muses, and you willleave feeling like a creative
force.
I'll share with you anincredibly effective and potent
process to get that creativezing back into your life.
(06:50):
I'd love to see you there.
Touching Into Creativity happenson October 19th, and if you
can't make it live, the replaywill be available.
So take your seat and reclaimyour wild creative essence by
following the link in the shownotes.
We're so excited to share thistalk with you.
Follow Pam on Instagram at PamGrout or check out her website,
(07:15):
pamgrout.
com for all the things she'sworking on now.
All right, let's do it.
Pam Grout (07:22):
Oh, hi.
Yeah, it's
Lindsey (07:24):
beautiful there.
Yeah, us too.
It's kind of funny.
We, we just moved here twomonths ago and before that we
were traveling with your familyfor three, for nine months.
We have three kids.
It's, When we were driving fromTexas to here in March to just
to visit.
We're from Texas.
Yeah, we're from Texas.
We found your audio book, Coursein Miracles Experiment.
(07:46):
I don't know if I mentioned thatin the email that I sent you.
We were already interested inCourse in Miracles, but honestly
like weren't like too studied init.
We knew about it from PeteHolmes.
who we listen to his podcast,and he lives here and now we
know him.
So we listened to your book andI don't know, it just was so
easy to understand that it feltlike a friend was telling me
(08:09):
about A Course in Miracles.
And then I was like, I'm sohooked on Pam Grout.
Britt (08:15):
We looked you up immediately in the car.
We were like, she sounds likeus.
Like, where is she from?
Lindsey (08:23):
And then you live in Kansas.
My mom just moved to Kansas ayear ago.
There was like all these, thesynchronicities were all there.
Wow.
Pam Grout (08:30):
Where'd your mom move to in Kansas?
Lindsey (08:33):
Um, Lawrence.
Pam Grout (08:35):
Oh, hey, that's where I live.
So, hey, maybe you'll come visither and we can all meet in
person.
Lindsey (08:41):
We spent a month here in Ojai in March, and I listened
to, listened to A Course inMiracles experiment, listened to
Thank and Grow Rich like threetimes, just had it like every
morning I'd be like, this is mybook, and then E Squared,
listened to that.
Anyway, you've really, you'vebeen a part of our travels in
this way that you didn't knowabout.
(09:02):
So, thank you.
Pam Grout (09:04):
Yeah, well, thanks for taking me along.
It sounds really fun.
I'm so glad I went to Californiaand back and it sounds like I
went all kinds of places.
Anyway, thanks for
Lindsey (09:14):
inviting me along.
Thailand, Japan, Australia,Hawaii.
You were all, you were there thewhole time.
Britt (09:20):
It's funny you actually quoted Pete Holmes in that book.
And when we got here, we raninto Pete, like, almost
immediately.
And I was like, hey, Pete, we,we're actually listening to this
book on A Course in Miracles,and they quoted you.
And he got really excited,because he was like, well, they
must have quoted me before I waseven into A Course in Miracles,
(09:41):
because of the timeline there.
And that got him really excited,too, because we found out about
it through him.
Pam Grout (09:47):
Oh, that's great.
Well, yeah, I used to listen tohis podcast quite a bit.
I haven't kept up with what he'sdoing lately, but, um, I do like
him a lot.
I knew he lived in California.
I didn't know he lived in Ojai.
So that's awesome.
Well, you know, Byron Katie,somebody I've followed for a
long time.
And of course she lives in Ojaiand I came to Ojai and did her.
I can't remember if it's a nineday school for the work or ten
(10:09):
day school for the work, butanyway, so that's where we were,
was in Ojai, so that's why Iknow it.
And I had a good friend thatlived there for a long time too,
so.
Yeah,
Lindsey (10:17):
we also love Byron Katie.
She's amazing.
Yeah, I saw her in the healthfood store and we like had a
little fangirl moment.
I was like, it's Byron Katie.
Pam Grout (10:28):
Well, I've been a fan for a moment with seeing Pete
Holmes, too, I think, so.
Yeah,
Lindsey (10:33):
yeah, yeah, true, exactly, yeah.
So, yeah, our podcast is allabout starting over, the journey
we went on, and then we love totalk to other people that
inspired us in some way to startover, or that are just, like,
doing...
really cool things and livingauthentically.
And so we always like to startby hearing a little bit about
(10:54):
your starting over story.
And that can just be, I know weall have a million, so maybe
it's like, whatever feels truejust right now.
Pam Grout (11:03):
Well, you know, the first thing that came to mind
when you asked that is I reallywant to start over every moment,
but particularly every day, youknow, it's like each day.
You know, there's 24 hours oneach day and it's so fun to wake
up and think, what is going tohappen today?
And to just surrender to thatpossibility.
(11:25):
So starting over the firstthought I had was that, yeah,
well, I, I believe in startingover every, every day, you know,
more or less, but as far as bigstarting overs, I've always had
a pretty.
And, and, um, haven't done thatmajor.
Oh, I'm starting over, but Ihave lived in different places
(11:45):
and that's in a sense isstarting over and, um, you know,
I became a mother when I was 37and that was starting over and
then also, um, you know, mydaughter passed and so that was
a starting over, so I've had.
You know, quite a few startingover moments.
It would be big that might fitinto what you're talking about
in the podcast.
(12:06):
But I do believe, you know, I, Italk sometimes about, I know
mind like, Oh, every time we usethe mind that thinks it knows we
miss all the possibilities thatare out there, you know, in the,
in the bigger universe.
So that's why I like the idea ofstarting over every moment, like
being like a child being, youknow, Not knowing what
(12:28):
everything is.
I mean, Byron Katie talks aboutthat a lot, you know, like first
generation reality, not, youknow, the reality that we impose
on the world, like, oh, okay, Iunderstand.
That's a tree.
And then we have, you know, allof our beliefs about what a tree
is.
But if you don't lay that overthe top of it, then, you know,
it can be anything.
So, um, so I guess, I don'tknow.
(12:49):
That's how I would answer.
How do I start over?
Lindsey (12:52):
That's amazing.
Yeah.
So were you always interested inA Course in Miracles or in
Living the Truth that we startover each morning or when did
that kind of seed for you?
Well, I began
Pam Grout (13:06):
The Course in Miracles.
Oh, wow.
When was it?
I went to Big Sur in CaliforniaI went to Esalen and I did a
month long program.
This is back when I was I don'tknow, really young or seems
young now, probably older thanyou guys are, but anyway, um,
and the, the 30 day program thatI did was about the Course in
(13:27):
Miracles and this amazing guynamed Julian Silverman and he
was one of the founders ofEsalen or he was in, you know,
from the beginning with, uh,Michael, can't remember that
guy's name, but you know, thatstarted Esalen back in the day.
So, yeah.
Julian has gone on to otherrealms by now.
But anyway, it was a wonderfulprogram with Course in Miracles.
And I think I chose that becauseI had just done a community
(13:48):
university class where the, um,the teacher had given, given us
the assignment to read the book.
Uh, love is letting go of fear,which was Gerald Jempolsky's
book that he referred to as theCourse in Miracles.
So I thought, Oh, that'sinteresting.
I like.
What I'm hearing about force ofmiracles, but as far as you
asked, when did I start thisway?
I grew up in a very traditional,um, religious family.
(14:10):
In fact, my father was aMethodist minister.
So I was taught, you know, kindof the traditional, we're all
born into sin or whatever.
You know, falling short of theglory of God.
I mean, I remember that versevery well.
So that was kind of mybackground growing up.
And as soon as I got away fromthat, you know, I was, again, my
dad was a minister, he left theministry when I was 16, my
(14:32):
parents divorced.
So that already shook some ofthe, you know, some of the
groundwork of my life when thathappened.
But then when I went off tocollege, I was just completely
open minded to anything and Iwas, um, you know, exploring
and, you know, wanting otherthings.
And it was probably at thatpoint where I really.
Just little by little startedgetting interested in a bigger
(14:54):
picture than the one I wastaught as a child.
So I would say, but I've been ona continuous journey since
college and that was a long timeago.
So I've been interested in thisfor a long time.
And part of my journey too isbeing a writer.
You know, I have always feltthat that was my purpose in life
was to write and to expressmyself.
(15:14):
And kind of the truce that I amtaking in and, and really just
to be a satellite dish for, youknow, the bigger thing.
So, I've been on that journey,like kind of an artistic journey
as well as on a spiritualjourney.
And in some ways there's nodifference, but those would be
my two paths that have alwaysintrigued me, that I've
followed.
My curiosity has encouraged meto follow.
Lindsey (15:35):
I love that you said the big thing.
I know you call it a lot ofthings, the big thing.
Yeah.
The dude, the FP, the field ofpotentiality.
How do you feel that?
How do you sense that that is,how do you know when you're like
being guided by the big thing?
Pam Grout (15:53):
A lot of different ways.
I feel it a lot out in nature.
Like, you know, looking at that,I don't know if you guys happen
to see the super moon.
I don't know what your skieswere like at the time, the super
moon was that last week of itbefore, but you know, just being
out there and looking at thatmoon is like, how could we
possibly believe that?
Our little material lives areit, you know, when you look at
(16:13):
that beautiful moon.
Um, but one thing I've noticedthat's kind of interesting for
me, I'm a journaler, and I'vejournaled forever.
I mean, you know, like, I don'tknow, probably since I was in
college, so a long, long time.
And sometimes, you know, I'lloften write in cursive and
sometimes I'll notice that I'msuddenly writing and printing,
you know, as opposed to writingin cursive.
(16:34):
And oftentimes that might besomething that I'm meant to
remember or to pay moreattention to.
So that's kind of an interestingthing that happens for me.
Um, because often, I mean, thetruth of it is I can't always
even read my own cursor forhiding, you know, when I'm
journaling.
So I think, you know, the fieldof potentiality or God or
whatever you want to call itsays, you need to slow down here
(16:55):
and you need to print thisbecause this is something you
need to remember.
So I sometimes have guidance inthat way, but I do connect with
the bigger thing when I, I love,you know, talking with other
people about this.
Like I love having conversationsabout this.
I always say, this is the onlyconversation that really
matters.
So, anyway, I feel the field ofinfinite potentiality right now
(17:16):
talking to you guys, so.
There's so many ways to connect.
I mean, how can you not connect?
It's here, it's everywhere, youknow?
But,
Lindsey (17:24):
yeah.
True.
And, I mean, and so many peopledon't, you know?
And that's what we really wantto have this conversation with
you.
For someone who, like, wants tofeel that, like, they know
there's something there, butthey don't feel connected to it.
Do you ever, like, have advicefor those people?
(17:44):
A lot
of
Pam Grout (17:45):
it goes to slowing down.
Because I think once, you know,if you're going really fast in
your mind, you know, in yourlife, you, you skip right by a
lot of things.
I mean, I told the story in, um,eSquared about this woman who
was so frustrated she waswaiting at the airport for the
bus, you know, that took peopleback to the parking lot where
(18:06):
they parked their cars.
And it literally circled, myfriend was sitting there
watching, and it circled threetimes, and she couldn't even see
it because she was so, I meanthat's just a small little
example, but since I wrote thatin eSquared, I've had a lot of
people send me, Stories how theytoo miss something that was
right there.
And so not only do we miss, youknow, the bigger thing, but we
(18:27):
even miss the material things inour life.
A lot of times when we're somuch in our mind and we're
rushing around and we'refrantically doing this or that.
So I think it's pretty easy todo that.
So I think slowing down, I thinkpaying attention to your breath
is a good way to do that.
I feel like gratitude is a goodway to connect with the bigger
(18:47):
thing, because when you're in astate of gratitude.
You're really more on thatfrequency, so to speak, that
we're the, the dude, whateverthe bigger thing is.
So gratitude is another bigpractice of mine that I feel is
very important and really canlead you to some of those, the,
you know, the divine guidancethat's always available for us.
Britt (19:09):
And I really, really appreciate your wording there
too.
I grew up in a family thatwasn't religious at all and Now
in my older age, I've kind ofdiscovered spirituality.
So I've always had that likereligious baggage The dude is
right up my alley.
So
Pam Grout (19:25):
I like that.
I know I love that I was what Iwas gonna say is I feel like for
so many people spirituality isvery Serious solemn, um, you
know, all these rules.
And I think part of the reason Icall it the dude and call it so
many different names is I thinkif we want it to be sustainable,
right, we want to continue to dothis.
(19:45):
And I think if we make it.
more fun if we lighten up abouteverything.
I mean, that's what we're goingfor.
Like in the course of miracles,the light, you know, I am the
light of God.
So lightness also has to do withhow serious we take life.
So if we look at life in a lighthearted manner, I think we're
also closer to that frequency ofGod.
So I do tend to, you know, callit the dude or whatever.
(20:09):
And just the way I word thingsis some people think I'm very
irreverent and sacrilegious, youknow, because of some of the
crazy examples that I use.
But to me, it's the truth.
And, um, it's fun to do it in a,in a more lighthearted manner.
To write in a more light heartedmanner.
Yeah.
It makes it sustainable.
Right.
Lindsey (20:27):
Yeah, yeah.
We have like, enough seriousnessas adults.
You know?
Really getting back.
That's why I like that youmentioned slowing down.
It just reminded me of being aparent and how I can, my mind
can be like, Oh, well, once allof these things are done, then,
then I can slow down or once,once X, Y, Z, then, then we'll
(20:50):
be like happy or something, youknow, how the mind does.
And really it's like slowingdown right there and just
playing or look, just looking atmy kids and being like, look at
these little miracles that arejust hanging out, playing Legos.
It's so true.
That's where I really feel likethe dude, you know?
Pam Grout (21:10):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I feel like children areour best teachers.
And I think that, you know, howso many things are upside down,
how we've approached life.
And I think, you know, when ourchildren are born to us, we need
to pay more attention to them.
You know, they're like, Oh,look, there's a ladybug.
I mean, they're just looking ateverything they're observing.
They're aware of all themiracles, but very quickly we
(21:31):
teach them, no, you need to dothis.
And here's the rules andwhatever.
So I think children are our bestteachers.
I wrote a blog post once about acouple of stories about kids
that I just really loved.
We were out walking, um, one dayduring the pandemic, my partner
and I, and there was this littlefamily and this one boy, this
one of the little boys hadstopped and he was paying
(21:54):
attention to a caterpillar and,you know, he's just looking at
it and the family, come on, comeon, we got to go.
And so he, he leans down to thecaterpillar and he goes.
It was so nice to talk to you.
I love you.
Goodbye.
I mean, just, you know, justthat it was just so sweet.
Then there was another kid thatwas back in the, in his, in her,
in his mom's car.
And he was saying, mom, I havethis confetti in my pocket.
(22:17):
And she said, why do you haveconfetti in your pocket?
He says, well, when there'ssomething to celebrate, I'll be
ready.
So I thought that was, but yeah,kids just, I don't know.
They're, they're in the moment.
They're, they're recognizing Godall the time.
The dude.
Yeah.
Lindsey (22:33):
Yeah.
Yeah.
So, you were already versed,you, you already, it sounds like
you were on some kind ofcuriosity path when you became a
mother.
Did that I was.
In fact, I was out How did this
Pam Grout (22:47):
change you?
Yeah, tell me.
Well, I was out in Connecticutand I had just finished a six
month program on Rebirthing,which is a breathing practice.
It's not necessarily Rebirthingand I had finished that program
and this friend of mine saidhey, I'm going to this psychic
from California I was inConnecticut at the time.
She was you want to go along andI said sure, you know, I'll go
(23:08):
I'm always up for fun adventure.
So she's going around thecircle, you know to each person
and telling what their next pathin life is And when she came to
me, she says, the psychic says,I don't know that you're going
to like this, but your next pathin life is motherhood.
And so, you know, we walk out ofthere and I said to my friend,
that psychic is full of baloney.
There is no way.
(23:29):
I mean, you know, I'm, you know,37, I'm, you know, actively
traveling and writing.
And sure enough, I was pregnantsoon thereafter.
And indeed, that was my nextpath.
So, um, Anyway, you know, and I,I was a single mom and, you
know, had my, in fact, one ofthe stories I tell, if you guys
(23:51):
have read the Course in MaritalSuccess, I really had known
about it for a while, but Ibegan to practice it in earnest
when I was seven monthspregnant, driving across the
country, you know, because itdidn't work out with her father.
And it's like, you know what?
Clearly something needs tochange here.
So I, even though I've been, youknow, practicing the Course in
(24:13):
Miracles, I began to really takeits messages.
To heart and I really began topractice them and you know, one
thing led to another it was agreat experience and being
Tasman's mom.
I feel like she was the greatestgift.
Um, you know, that I've had inthis lifetime.
So anyway, that was a kind of abig surprise and talk about, uh,
changing your life.
(24:34):
It definitely changed mine,right?
Lindsey (24:36):
And you were already a writer at that time you were
traveling, doing all of thethings that you're going to do.
Yes.
Pam Grout (24:42):
I've been a writer from the very beginning.
Did
Lindsey (24:46):
your early experience in early motherhood, did it
shift?
The way you traveled, or writingat the time, or did it just all
kind of enfold together?
Well, I made it work.
Pam Grout (25:00):
I mean, I got a lot of pressure from people at that
time, Pam, you need to go get areal job.
Because you know, I've beenfreelancing for a long time, and
you know, when you're justtaking care of yourself, you
know, that's fine.
But um, once I became pregnant,I was going to have this
daughter to raise, peoplethought, you need to get a real
job.
But I stuck with my Myintention, which was to continue
(25:20):
to be a writer.
And again, I appointed God, theCEO of my career.
And I said, Hey, you know what?
This is a pretty unstablebusiness, but if, if I'm going
to make this work, you're goingto be the boss.
So I turned it all over to thehigher power.
And indeed it has all worked outfor me.
Um, there were times my gosh,how am I going to pay the rent?
(25:41):
And some miraculous thing wouldhappen.
Just always, I was taken careof.
I was always guided.
I was always.
Blessed and taken care of allalong the way.
I mean, if you look at my story,you know, Oh, this woman, she's
seven months pregnant, shedoesn't have a home.
I mean, what's going to happen,but it all worked out, you know,
just step by step by step.
(26:01):
And I think, you know, that I,that I know mind that I was
talking about earlier, it'slike, everyone would say, Hey,
that's, that's a terriblesituation.
You're driving across thecountry.
You're seven months pregnant.
You have where you don't knowwhere you're going, but I didn't
feel that somehow I just had asense that everything was going
to be fine.
And indeed everything was fine.
(26:23):
So, um, anyway, I guess that'sone of the things I've always
been able to do is to lookbeyond, you know, like the
general narrative that wouldsay.
This is a real problem wherethis is, you know, you need to
be more afraid than you are.
So anyway, it was, uh, you know,there's, it's definitely Sounds
kind of challenging and yeah,there were moments.
It was challenging.
But again being guided and Ledto just the right things just
(26:47):
the right people at just theright time
Lindsey (26:49):
What is one of those just the right people places
times that is coming to mind foryou right
Pam Grout (26:55):
now?
Originally, when I was drivingmy little blue Toyota across the
country with the air conditioneron the fritz, I was planning to
go to Breckenridge because afriend of mine knew about a home
that was actually for sale, butit was sitting there, you know,
until it sold.
So I was going to head there andI was going to raise taz in
Breckenridge, but you know, I'mdriving across the country,
(27:16):
stopping to see various friends.
And then.
An old boss of mine, I used towrite fundraising letters for
her.
She said, Hey, I've got thisbig, big house.
You can just stay here while youhave the baby.
I mean, you know, you're walkingaround seven months, maybe eight
months by the time I gotpregnant.
So, you know, that happenedright then that was perfect.
(27:36):
And I stayed with her for a fewmonths and then, you know, I
rented an apartment and just,you know, one thing led to
another, but I ended up staying.
She was in Kansas, which is, youknow, I was heading to Colorado
because I had left.
you know, Connecticut.
I have kind of a weird thing.
I have lived in every state thatbegins with a C, you know, and
(27:56):
every state that begins with aK.
And this is not like I plannedthat, you know, but that's just
kind of how it has worked out.
Lindsey (28:04):
What does God do as your CEO?
And what do those meetings look
Pam Grout (28:09):
like?
Well, I don't know that we haveofficial meetings.
Sometimes I'll go, Hey, I needyour help right now.
I mean, it's more like that kindof a meeting, not a, uh, let's
sit down and have a chat kind ofthing.
It's more like, yeah.
And, you know, as I'm, you know,developed in my journey, I trust
more and more that what, what isbrought to me each day, like we
(28:31):
were talking about starting overeach day, you know, God is
providing.
I keep, sorry.
I keep using that word dial thedude is providing.
Each day.
And so it's, I don't know, it'sjust trusting that, you know,
and I don't need to have allthese big intentions or
whatever, because I just trustso much that the right things
(28:53):
and again, the right people, allthis will come into my life.
So it's a matter of justtrusting that this beneficent
force has my back and that Ijust have to tune in and pay
attention.
Lindsey (29:05):
Yeah.
So let's talk a little bit aboutbalancing that trust with.
Also, creating reality throughthought, through intention.
How do you hold both?
Because it seems like...
Well, what I've
Pam Grout (29:20):
come to realize is most of what I think I need and
want is usually pales incomparison to what the bigger
thing thinks I need and want.
So, I am pretty open to that.
You know, back when I wasyounger, I was really big into
manifesting.
And of course, you know, Esquared's all about manifesting.
(29:41):
And I wrote a blog post oncethat I think really explains it
all how there's four stages ofKind of spiritual development
and the first stage is like ohmy god There's nothing out
there.
The second one is wow.
I can kind of get this force todo my Do my bidding and then
you, you gain confidence inthat.
And then, um, the third stage, Idon't remember what that was,
but eventually in the fourthstage, you just are so
(30:04):
surrendered.
You know, that there's nothingbut God.
There's nothing but the dude andit's all perfect.
You've just totally surrenderedto that.
But so I think that manifestingpiece is kind of more like on
the second wrong.
You know, you, you need to knowthat you need to realize that
you interact with the doing thatyou animate into your life, what
you focus upon.
I mean, that is a fact that's a.
(30:24):
You know a scientific factthat's what I would call it.
But so we animate into our lifewhatever we focus upon And if we
focus upon problems, which iskind of the state of the world,
then, you know, we'll get lotsof problems.
If we focus on possibilities,then we get a lot of
possibilities.
So I was talking about problemstate or possibility state.
So, I just prefer to stay inpossibility state and let the
(30:45):
dude handle the details.
Lindsey (30:48):
Yeah, I love that.
And I, cause, I, I guess becauseI see in, in the language around
manifestation, especially causeit's like such a.
Um, forced feeling around it, orlike, uh, I need to have exactly
(31:08):
whatever I thought that gets alittle limp.
It's limiting because really,there's this like much bigger
field of love.
And so I love that you'resaying, just focus on creating
the good and kind of, and thenmore or less see what happens
and trust that you're being led.
(31:29):
I love that.
Thank you.
Right.
Well, I
Pam Grout (31:31):
have what, you know, four main intentions these days,
and they're just real simple.
Peace of mind.
You know, that's what the Coursein Miracles promises.
Peace of mind.
Surety of purpose.
You know that I know what mypurpose is.
Clear unmistakable guidance.
So when there is something forme to do or there is something
for me to write or something forme to say that I will recognize
(31:52):
that I meant to do that.
And then the fourth one isunceasing joy, which is what the
Course in Miracles does promise.
And that one's the hardest onefor most people to get their
minds around like what unceasingjoy Everybody knows life's a
roller coaster, right?
But again, that's how weCollapse the wave to believe
that and so of course that'smaybe the way it is But I do
believe there's a bigger picturewhere we can live in unceasing
(32:16):
joy.
Britt (32:17):
I was curious Do you have any exercises and creativity for
like pulling inspiration fromthe source?
Pam Grout (32:25):
Well, you know, I wrote a book called art and soul
Reloaded well, I wrote a bookart and soul And then it went
out of print, but then wereleased it.
Well, I changed it up a littlebit called art and soul
reloaded.
And in there, I have some, Iguess you'd call them.
I don't like to talk, call themexercises.
Cause that sounds kind of like,Oh, you got to do it, but just
some practices that you can do.
(32:47):
But my biggest thing is really.
Just to show up and say, okay,dude, what am I, what do you
want me to write?
What are you kind of showing up?
You need to prove to the muses.
If you want to call them thatthe dude that you're serious,
that you really are willing tobe the secretary, because again,
You know, my highest writing iswhen I'm a satellite dish, you
(33:07):
know, I'm just bringing inwhatever, you know, the dude
wants me to write about.
So, but you do have to show up.
So I guess that would be, um,the only advice I'm not one at
all for giving advice.
I feel like what works for oneperson may not work for another
person.
And I feel like in some ways,you know, the whole self help
thing, and I know my books areclassified as self help.
(33:29):
But I feel like we each find itin our own way and we each find
it with our connection with thebigger thing.
So what might work for oneperson may not work for the
other person.
But I think just being open,being willing and being there,
you know, is kind of the best,um, exercise, I guess, if you
want to call it that.
Lindsey (33:50):
Yeah, I actually just started listening to Art and
Soul this week and it's, it'samazing and it really, because
I'm also, I'm doing the artist'sway right now for the first
time.
I've done a lot of automaticwriting but never, like, With
the book and I just read, uh,Stephen Pressfield's, um, War of
(34:11):
Art.
Are you familiar with that?
That's such a great book.
He's incredible.
He was on Pete's podcastrecently.
That's where I heard him.
And I, I was familiar with him,but I.
bought the book, never, youknow, didn't read it.
So I was like, I'm going to readit.
He talks about the muse too.
You meant when, as soon as yousaid the muse in the book, art
and soul, and now you just saidit, I'm like, Oh yeah, it, it
(34:32):
all.
It's like everything I need tohear right now is show up, ask
for guidance.
But like, you have to kind of,you have to show up what I am
personally learning as someonewho's more of like, uh, or has
been known to be someone that'slike, uh, A little more task
oriented in my former whateveris like showing up for my
(34:53):
creative flow or vision firstbefore I then do all the things
that need to be done in thehouse or before I like check
emails because it gets you Getsucked in I I won't say you I'll
say I Get like sucked into allof these things I need to do,
which are mostly meaningless.
Everyone still has cleanunderwear.
(35:14):
There is still food.
So to like make sure that, youknow, it's all folded or
whatever it is, or to make surethat all the emails checked when
most of it's trash.
So you and Steven Pressfield,and then also doing the artist's
way, those three things are,it's like, I need them right now
to remember that creativitycomes first.
And it actually is what givesthe other things energy for me,
(35:38):
because then I show up to momand I feel good.
I'm like, I'm excited.
Pam Grout (35:44):
Yeah, Gandhi used to say that if he had a really busy
day, that he needed to meditatea little bit extra, because then
he would find more time.
And meditate, you could replaceit with, you know, do your
spiritual practice, yourcreativity practice, whatever it
would be, but to connect.
To that bigger thing becausewhatever you're doing With that
(36:04):
bigger thing kind of thereguiding you, it's going to be so
much better and life just kindof flows easier.
But I know when you've got, yousaid three kids, that's, that's
a lot to think about, you know,and a lot to focus on, but I
think you can be better there.
You can be there for them bettertoo, as you're, you know, kind
of staying in touch with yourhigher self.
Lindsey (36:22):
Yeah, yeah, well, because once you know, once you
kind of like tune into how youwant life to feel and or again,
I'll say for me once I tunedinto like how I want life to
feel how I want to express mylife and live in in joy.
It just, it just kind of likeflips everything on its head and
(36:43):
it really makes me like rethinkresponsibility.
Also, what am I responsible toif I also have these creative
visions and this idea that likefeels like it's going, you know,
it could go somewhere, even ifit's just going that going
somewhere into one otherperson's ear or no one else's
ear.
Pam Grout (37:03):
Exactly.
How can we show up, just show upas the best person, the highest
version of yourself, and, youknow, when you are connected in
that way, it definitely helps dothat.
Lindsey (37:13):
I do want to circle back to that idea of, of, like,
the unending joy.
I can't remember exactly whatyou just called it.
Pam Grout (37:23):
Unceasing joy, yes.
Lindsey (37:27):
Joy, yes, holding that as an intention when, like you
said, life is a roller coasterand there's some things that
happen that are hard, right?
Pam Grout (37:39):
And I think one of the reasons I love Byron Katie
so much, you know, we're talkingabout her earlier, is she always
says.
The unhappiness isn't happeningin the events that happen.
It's happening in our heads, inthe story that we're telling
about that.
You know, this shouldn't havehappened.
I don't like this.
(37:59):
Get me out of here.
Those are all the ego's voicetrying to keep us from our
natural state of joy.
Because our natural state, youknow, our true self, who we are,
is joyful.
Um, but the ego is constantlyhas this little narrative going
that says.
You shouldn't be here.
(38:20):
This shouldn't be happening.
This is all unfair.
I mean, just the ego goes on andon and on, you know, that voice
in our head.
Um, so that's kind of the thingthat keeps us from that.
But I do feel that, uh, youknow, to really know who we are,
once we're really true to ourauthentic self, that is how we
will live in joy and peace.
(38:41):
And that's, you know, myintention.
So, yeah, that's why I have thatintention.
Lindsey (38:45):
Yeah, I love it.
Well, what about when, like, thebig things happen when you, when
you lose a child or, you know,these, like, heartbreaks?
Well,
Pam Grout (38:58):
it definitely is heartbreaking.
It is completely shatteringevery single thing in your life.
So yes, it is.
Those things can be.
Very difficult.
Well, it makes you look at lifein a whole different way.
And you know, again, with thatbeing my intention, this, it, it
(39:19):
can, it's something that helpsyou look at life in a whole
different way for sure.
So I've had to, you know, thecourse of miracles always says
that who we really are is notthis body.
This body is an imposter thatjust here.
You know, temporarily, whatever.
So who we really are is the loveand the joy and the light.
That's the truth of who we are.
So, by society's narrative, yes,my daughter is not here anymore.
(39:45):
But the essence of who she is,the light and the joy and the
love, is still very much here.
So, it really helps you widen,to broaden your perspective when
something like that happens.
Um, I mean, she's just, I, Ilove my daughter just as much as
I ever did.
I get signs from her on theregular.
(40:07):
I mean, like literally everyfirst of the month I get a sign
from her.
Um, I also get a lot of two totwos.
I started a foundation in herhonor.
I feel like she and I work inthe, on the foundation together.
So it's just.
Again, it's our thoughts and ourbeliefs, as Byron Katie says,
that keep us from that joy.
(40:27):
And certainly, there's a lot ofthoughts and beliefs around
losing a child that, that couldDefinitely get in the way of, of
feeling the unceasing joy.
And I, I'm not here to say that,Oh yeah, I just sailed right
through it.
It was easy.
It was very, very, verydifficult.
But again, I'm not a fullyrealized person, you know, I'm
still, I'm still, um, intendingthese things and, you know,
(40:51):
moving in that direction andtrying to be more expansive all
the time.
So, um, you know, I'm doing, Ijust do the best that I can.
And again, turn it over to thedude and trust that, you know,
The bigger thing has Has my backand knows what it's doing.
So anyway,
Lindsey (41:08):
yeah going back to the I know Like that you that we
don't know, you know We we can'tknow and that I'm not my body.
But also I am a human right nowSo, I think I'm supposed to be
here just taking theseexperiences and lessons and
(41:28):
ingesting them, alchemizing themto get back to that love and
joy.
And that it's not, yeah, and itmight not always look pretty.
Pam Grout (41:40):
It might not always look pretty according to the
narrative that we've all boughtinto.
You know, I talk a lot about,you know, collapsing the wave
and...
You know, that's a quantumphysics term.
And once you collapse the waveor you set up your neural
pathways in your brain, and weall do it, we have our limited
narrative about the way thingsare meant to be.
And so anything that isdifferent than that, that
(42:01):
doesn't fit into that can bevery painful.
So, um, that's part of thereason that I try to surrender
my story, my beliefs as much asI possibly can, and try to get
into.
I don't know mind.
I said in one of my books orblogs or something that my hero
was, um, Sergeant Schultz fromHogan's Heroes, and you guys may
(42:23):
be too young to remember that,but it was about these guys that
were prisoner of war in, inGermany.
And so anyway, this guy,Sergeant Schultz would always
say to his, Colonel Klink waslike the, you know, the bad guy
that had these guys in prison.
And he'd say, I know nothing.
And so he would say that, andthat's like, okay, that's my
mantra, that's my hero, I knownothing.
(42:44):
All I know is that I'm here atthis moment, and I'm going to do
the best that I can with it.
Lindsey (42:50):
Going back to this idea of, like, really the essence of
starting over, and, and I also,I mean, our experience is like,
starting over doesn't need to bea challenge.
It can be like, oh, I want to dothis new thing, and starting
over in that way.
And like really flipping itaround.
I'm like, Oh, I.
(43:10):
get to do something new andexciting if I follow the call?
How, how can someone who wantsto start over, whether it's
start studying A Course inMiracles, whether it's become a
writer or start traveling orjust the millions of things that
people can do, you know, makepurses, um, start painting, bake
(43:32):
cookies and give them out topeople or like, Dance in the
grocery store.
There's literally a millionthings that we can do and say,
this is, this is the real me,you know, how can people
implement these.
teachings that you give and you,I like that you say it's not
advice, it's your experience andsomeone will use it differently,
but how can they take what youare here to express and utilize
(43:57):
it for their own starting over?
Pam Grout (43:59):
Well, I think, you know, you heard that, that
saying, it says jump and the netwill appear or leap and the net
will appear.
I think we hang on so tight.
To what we know, even when it'spainful, even when it's not
working out for us.
But when you mentioned thatabout starting over can be
exciting.
I mean, really, when you thinkabout it, that's super exciting.
(44:22):
I mean, you're doing somethingcompletely new.
I mean, why wouldn't that be soamazing?
But it's only that narrativethat says, we need to keep it
the same.
I need to stay safe.
I need to, you know, and it'sjust this belief that you're
safe when you keep doing thesame thing, that's not
necessarily safety, but again,it's a collapsed way that we
believe about the way it is.
(44:43):
So I think just to turn that onhis head, it's like.
Wow.
I am like, you guys are livingin a whole new place now.
And I don't know if you'relaunching a whole new business.
I'm not sure what all you'redoing, but that is so exciting.
Yes.
It's a little scary or it's alittle unknown, I guess, but
Hey, that is so cool.
And so when you approach it fromthat total excitement and wow,
(45:05):
what's going to happen, thatcuriosity.
that makes it really fun and Ithink we can do that with
whatever's happening in ourlife.
How, how can we make this reallyfun and to look at it that way?
Lindsey (45:16):
Yeah, yeah, and I just actually heard you say this in
the Course in Miraclesexperiment, but like seeing fear
and then just not, not lettingfear stop you and knowing like
there's fear, seeing it,witnessing it, and then being
like, and I'm going to walkright.
Past it or walk right throughit,
Pam Grout (45:35):
right?
I mean you can wave at it, youknow and say hi Yeah, I hear
you, but doesn't mean you haveto listen to it.
You know, whatever we put ourattention upon So if we put a
lot of our attention on thefear, I mean it just grows
whatever we're thinking aboutgrows So, you know if you
thought oh my gosh, this is soscary.
I shouldn't be doing this and ohmy what's gonna happen Then
(45:55):
it'll grow, but you can also,wow, this is so exciting.
This is so what's going to,what's going to happen, you
know, what's exciting going tohappen.
So, yeah, I think that's whereyou really do use that
discipline of, you know, what amI going to grow in my experience
in my mind?
And, uh, so yeah, that's wherewe have some power, I think, is
to truly focus on thepossibilities, not the problems.
Lindsey (46:20):
Mm hmm.
Yeah.
And then for anyone who stillfeels those little, like, the
clinging thoughts, or theclinging to fear, and you
mentioned it, we hold on sotight, like, and we can get a
practice of letting go, but thenwe might notice we're clinging
somewhere else.
How do we just trust to let gomore, even more, after, even
(46:43):
after we've been doing it for awhile?
Pam Grout (46:45):
Well, I think as you start doing it, it becomes
easier and easier once you startseeing, wow, this wasn't a
disaster, or this, all thesethings that I worried were going
to happen did not happen.
So it's like, you know, workingany muscle, you start
surrendering, you start gettingexcited.
You start being curious about anew way of being.
(47:06):
And then you realize that allthose thoughts and crazy making
that you were doing in your headdidn't come to pass.
And so I think it gets easierand easier as you do it more and
more.
And I would say you guys, ifyou've totally picked up
everything and moved your,you're definitely.
You know, growing that muscle ofpossibility.
(47:26):
So, so good for you.
Lindsey (47:30):
Yeah.
One example I want to give ofjust a, well, another way that
you've kind of been on this tripwith us.
We were in Australia in June.
It was very last minute.
We were traveling and we werelike, let's go to Australia
next.
And then we got there and we'relike, it's winter.
And it was just, it wasobviously also like a winding
(47:51):
down of our traveling that maybewe were like holding on to the
idea, like almost in reverse,holding on to like, no, we need
to.
We were supposed to keep doingthis longer.
Anyway, we went to a bookstore,E squared was there.
I was like, okay, I'm going tobuy E squared, this bookstore in
Australia and like doing theexperiments.
(48:15):
I don't know.
I was just wanted, I was, I wasfeeling at that time.
like in a low spot because I waslike kind of bummed.
I think we're going to stoptraveling.
What am I, what's my work?
Where am I supposed to be?
All of those little questionsthat come up.
So I was so happy to have yourexperiments to just have fun
with and be light.
(48:37):
And one of them is the car, likeseeing a green, I think it says
a green car, but then you changeit to sunset beige or something.
You can do whatever you want.
Yeah, but when, but anyway, mycar was sunset orange, and then
the next day I freaking saw thisorange car in Australia and I
(48:57):
was like, all right, I guess I'mjust supposed to loosen up and
not try to, it really, the, itwas another way that I was
reminded that I was trying toforce or control my idea of what
was supposed to happen.
Pam Grout (49:14):
Yeah, I love those little synchronicities and sides
from the universe.
And I think once you startpaying attention, you see more
and more of them.
In fact, that was kind of thewhole purpose of E squared
really was, you know, I'm notsaying anything that hasn't been
said a million times before,including the Bible asking you
should find, you know, seekingit to be given to you, whatever
that is.
But it was saying, Let's payattention and let's give it a
(49:34):
time frame.
And so it just sort of jarspeople into recognizing, I
really am interacting with thisforce.
So I love those little signs andsynchronicities.
And I feel like they're thereall the time if we pay
attention.
And as we start paying moreattention, we find them more and
more.
In fact, one of the things Ioften say, you know, this book.
Came out 10 years ago.
(49:55):
And so since it came out, Imean, people send me these
letters and they start with, Oh,M G.
You are never going to believethis.
And so they're so excited.
I mean, in the beginning, whenthe book came out, I was getting
hundreds and hundreds andhundreds of emails with all
these great stories.
And so that right there helpedsolidify my belief.
I mean, I already believed it.
Obviously I'm writing about it.
(50:15):
But it's like, there is no doubtin my mind with all the
anecdotal evidence that I'vegotten of what people were given
all kinds of signs.
And as far as that car one, Ilove the stories, particularly
where people said, I'm not goingto do green cars or sunset beige
or whatever.
I am going to do, um, red carswith yellow polka dots, you
know, let's, let's, let's stepit up a notch.
(50:36):
And sure enough, they would findred cars with yellow polka dots.
Or one person said they weregoing to look for priests or
something in a, in a habit or,or whatever it is the priests
wear.
And they were, they went, theykept driving by churches and you
know, oh this, we know how to dothis, we'll find this.
And then the priest shows up ina totally unconventional way,
(50:56):
and now I don't remember how itwas, but so, you know, not only
do we make these intentions, andthen we figure out how this is
going to happen, and that's thatI know mind, which gets us in
trouble, so if we just sort oflet it go.
But I've had so many fun storiesfrom, from the experiments in
the book, so.
Yeah, that's been a realblessing in my life.
Awesome.
Britt (51:16):
So is there anything new in your life that feels like a
starting over?
Or is there anything you'reworking on that you would
consider maybe a starting over
Pam Grout (51:23):
point?
Well, you know, again, like Isaid, I'm always starting over.
I am, um, trying to learnSpanish.
You know, I spent, um, most ofthe summer in Spain.
And, uh, have been, you know,working on learning Spanish.
And I feel like, you know, youlearn a new language and it
opens you up to a whole notherworld in a sense.
(51:43):
So that's like one more way,like people that speak five
languages, you really, you know,you're, you really understand
the world in a, in a muchbroader way.
I think the people that speakone, like I do at this point, I
do speak Australian though, Imean, I.
I, I didn't, but that one'spretty easy.
So, but yes, um, so that I'm,you know, working on another
(52:06):
book again, you know, the ideaskeep coming and that's my job is
to be, you know, the satellitedish for the view.
So yes, I've, I've got a newbook and what this book that I'm
writing is about is just all theways that the ego tries to own
us, you know, the ego wants ourbrains thinking the way it wants
us to think instead of.
(52:27):
Recognizing this truth about whowe really are.
So that's the book that I wasgiven to write next.
So that's, that's my currentproject and every book you're
starting over, every projectyou're starting over, you know,
you go through the same thing.
Like, can I do this?
Will it happen for me this time?
I mean, it doesn't matter how, Imean, I had 20 books published
(52:47):
and you still have those, thatlittle voice, you know, that ego
trying to tell you, yeah, youfooled them, you know, you can't
do this.
But.
You know, you just can't listento that voice.
You have to just ignore it, say,thank you for sharing and move
on.
Britt (53:02):
That's exciting.
So we always end this with, uh,questions from our eight year
old twins.
So Eli's question is what arewalls made out of
Pam Grout (53:16):
walls?
Well, well, I mean, everything'smade out of energy and you know,
when you really break it down,there's really not even a wall
there.
It's like mostly air.
It's like, 99.
9 percent energy and then just alittle bit of material.
So that's a good question, Eli.
I like your question very much.
And, um, when you figure it out,let me know, because all I know
(53:38):
is it's energy moving and it'sbarely there and you can walk
through walls.
I believe I'm, you know, maybeEli will be doing that.
You know, he's as these youngerones are more advanced than me.
I still have that belief that Icannot walk through a wall, but.
I think Eli maybe do it.
Sorry parents, I guess Ishouldn't be encouraging that
kind of behavior.
It's
Lindsey (53:58):
fine.
They can try.
We're here for
Britt (54:02):
it.
So Jack's question is, Do youhave a secret lab with treasure,
a time machine, and ahoverboard?
You know,
Pam Grout (54:09):
I feel like in a way I do.
Um, I feel like I have atreasure with All those things
that I would want to do.
I mean, I've known people thathave hovered without a
hoverboard.
I've known people that, youknow, again, when you, when you
let go of the way you believethe world is, it's amazing what
else happens.
Okay.
Repeat the other things.
Cause I probably know someonethat's done each of those
(54:32):
things.
The time machine.
Yes.
I think you can go back in timeor go forward in time.
And I've, I've heard of peopledoing that.
And then what was the third onehe mentioned?
Let's see, it
Britt (54:41):
was Treasure, Hoverboard, and Time Machine.
Pam Grout (54:43):
Time Machine, yes.
I mentioned Time Machine, theHoverboard, and what was the
first one?
Treasure, yes.
I feel like we all havetreasure.
I mean, I walk out my door, Ilook out my window, and there's
treasures everywhere.
And I really love thosequestions, and I think that's so
cool that you guys let themparticipate.
It's a family affair.
I love it.
In fact, maybe we should letkids ask all the questions,
(55:06):
right?
I
Lindsey (55:07):
think so, too.
Yeah, we should do that episode,for sure.
This has been such a great talk.
Thank you so much, Pam.
Pam Grout (55:15):
Well, thank you.
Well, I'm excited to hear moreabout your journey in Ojai and
what's happening.
So, thank you for letting meplay a small part in it.
Lindsey (55:25):
Of course, yeah.
You've been on the trip since wedrove here, and I'm sure that
will continue.
Yeah,
Britt (55:31):
we were very excited that you agreed to come on the show.
It's meant a lot to us.
Yeah, well,
Pam Grout (55:36):
it's been fun.
Thank you so much.
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