December 20, 2023 • 25 mins
Ever wonder what it takes to get soldiers out the door and responding to domestic emergencies? It’s more than just filling up a truck with troops, shovels, sandbags and rolling out, that’s for sure. Lieutenant-Colonel Geneviève Bertrand from the Canadian Army Headquarters Operations cell explains how the green machine gets rolling when things get tough at home.
Feel free to contact Captain Adam Orton with any comments or questions:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
LCol Bertrand (00:05):
We joined for international operations, but
also to help our fellowcitizens. But this comes at a
cost.
Capt Orton (00:13):
Hi. I'm Captain Adam Orton with the Canadian Army
Podcast. In the past few years,the military has been called out
more and more to respond todomestic operations, be it the
pandemic, forest fires,flooding, or any number of other
emergencies. Here to explain howdomestic operations are prepared
and soldiers are sent out thedoor is
Lieutenant-Colonel GenevièveBertrand, former CO of
(00:35):
3e Royal 22e Régiment andcurrently working in the
Canadian Army Headquarters inOttawa. Welcome to the Podcast!
LCol Bertrand (00:40):
Well, thank you and thank you for having me.
Capt Orton (00:43):
So if we look at military equipment, you know,
our uniforms, our vehicles, ourtraining, a lot of that is
focused on combat operations.You know, you don't need a 25
ton LAV to go out and fightfloods. So why is the Army
useful in domestic operations inemergency response?
LCol Bertrand (01:02):
So I would say because our troops are kind of,
trained to answer to a plethoraof requests, So they will be
able to just react quickly. Wedo have great training as well
as part of just organizing ourwork that we need to do.
Whenever there's a request fordom ops, domestic operations, it
(01:23):
really is because everythingelse has failed and we need to
go and provide assistance to thepopulation. So our ability to
actually plan quickly within thechain of command and as well for
our troops to execute whateverthat plan is, is actually quite
useful. So if we're looking atfloods, you know, we're gonna
talk about sandbags.
We're gonna talk about justvehicles to transport the troops
(01:44):
back and forth in the equipment.And sometimes those big
vehicles, those big LAVs arekinda useful for whenever the
roads are flooded. So this iswhere it it will become a good
thing to have our troops to goand support the population.
Capt Orton (01:58):
You know, we spend a lot of time refining kind of our
tools in the toolbox and beingflexible to have options because
when the next thing pops up,whatever it is, we have to be
able to respond to it. But wecan't necessarily plan for what
that is because by nature, it'salways some kind of emergency,
whether it be military orotherwise.
LCol Bertrand (02:17):
Absolutely. I mean, when we look at the
weather forecast, we can alittle bit plan on what's gonna
happen. So this summer, forexample, was a great example
where early on, we saw that itwas going to be a a pretty high
fire index summer, and we wentout on a few operations to help
with that. But like you justsaid, when it came to COVID and
when it came to to the supportthat we gave for Op LASER and
(02:38):
VECTOR, we were not prepared forthat at all, but we were able to
rise to the challenge justbecause we looked at the
problem. And because we're usedto planning, it was something
that we could do looking at aproblem and coming up with a
solution to try to tackle thatproblem.
Capt Orton (02:53):
Yeah. The Commander of the Army also has said, you
know, our greatest strength isour people. That's the thing
that comes up a lot. And havingthat relatively vast resource of
people that we can put almostanywhere in Canada and even to
an extent with enough timelineanywhere in the globe, that's a
pretty big, powerful batterythat we have to power these
operations.
LCol Bertrand (03:14):
It is. And and whenever we're talking about
domestic operations, it's nevera good thing. Right? It's rarely
a a positive thing that'shappening. So it's either
floods, it's either the forestfires, or it could be even, we
had some quite intensive,snowstorms back in the Atlantic.
Or it could be the hurricanes.So usually, it's very close and
close to the heart of thesoldiers as well because that's
(03:34):
where they live. That's theirarea. So, of course, we're
really eager to help, and we'realways happy to have contributed
to something and to have donegood for the population.
Capt Orton (03:44):
One thing I've noticed from what you've been
talking about is a lot of itseems to be fairly weather
centric. What's up with that?
LCol Bertrand (03:53):
That I'm not a meteorologist to be able to talk
about that, but we have seen anincrease into the requests for
Op LENTUS. So, really, thedomestic operations is the name
we have for it. So from 2010 toabout 2015 or 16, we were
running at about 2.25 Op LENTUSa year, right, as an average.
(04:14):
Since 2017, that has jumpeduntil 2023, that has jumped to
5.8. So we've doubled the amountof requests we receive every
year, as an average, on domesticoperations.
So we're always ready. EveryDivision has their troops that
are on kinda standby to be ableto answer the call. But, yeah,
(04:34):
there has been a differentincrease into environmental
crisis.
Capt Orton (04:38):
Yeah. I've been reading a lot about, how other
militaries including our ownhave been adding climate change
as a factor into emergencyresponse whether on
international operations or ondomestic operations, and, we've
definitely been tested by thatrecently.
LCol Bertrand (04:55):
We have. We need to pay attention to it because
we're always, as I said, eagerto help, and this is why we're
also joined. Right? We joinedfor international operations,
fires in British Columbia forthe entire summer, well, it
comes at a cost of what trainingam I not doing to prepare for an
(05:18):
international operation. it issomething that we need to keep a
close eye and have a good planbecause we can predict it's
gonna increase, but we don'tknow at what level and when is
it gonna happen.
Capt Orton (05:29):
Yeah. I know the Chief of Defense Staff has
brought up also that domesticoperations is having
increasingly significant impacton our our ability to be
prepared for things becausetroops that might be on standby
till you go on an internationaloperation or support a UN or
NATO mission or something likethat might get pulled, or people
who are on leave aka vacation,they're getting pulled back to
(05:51):
go and fight forest fires, orlike you said, is, like,
somebody in the middle of atraining cycle get stopped,
dropped, and pulled off of thattraining cycle to go and fight
forest fires?
LCol Bertrand (05:59):
Yeah. So it's something that we we always have
a force that's ready to react tothose, but that doesn't mean
they're just sitting there andwaiting for an event to happen.
They're gonna continue on withtheir other training. But like
you just mentioned, it might besomething forest fire just just
happens, and then we have tostop whatever kind of training
that we're doing at the time.And then we're gonna just keep
on with it.
It does create some schedulingconflict whenever we have that
(06:22):
unit that's identified toeventually... Maybe it could be
even in a few months that'ssupposed to go overseas to do an
operation, but that trainingneeds to happen so that it can
get there. So it is something wehave to keep a close eye on. Our
demands for internationaloperations will also continue to
increase, So that will increasethe demand as well. So we need
(06:42):
to start looking very much indetail how we're gonna tackle
this for the next couple ofyears to make sure we have the
troops available for theinternational operations, but we
also have whatever we're gonnaneed if a request for assistance
comes around.
Capt Orton (06:56):
How do you go about generating solutions to that
kind of problem? I mean, that'sa pretty complicated problem to
overcome.
LCol Bertrand (07:01):
It is. So right now, we're looking at options so
that we can propose it to theCommander so he can make a
decision. And when I'm talkingabout the Commander, so the Army
will have a thing to say, but,ultimately, it will be going up
to the CDS and to higher levelsof approval. What are we looking
at? So one of the great thingsthat we do have is our Reserve
Force.
And especially for domesticoperations, we often tap into
(07:25):
that pool of personnel. Imentioned earlier that whenever
an event happens for domesticoperations, it's very local.
It's very you know, you're inyour own turf. Right? So it's
gonna happen if there's a forestfire in B.C.
Well, the folks from B.C. aregonna be impacted by that. So by
our nature, we wanna help ourfellow citizens. The Reserve
(07:45):
Force that are there that arelocal most likely are gonna be
looking to support as well. Butthat comes at a cost as well.
Right?
So now we're talking contractsfor those reservists, which is
great. But now we're talkingmoney. So it's something I don't
control, and I have to pitch itforward to say maybe that's a
solution. Maybe we put extralong contracts. So maybe that's
something we're gonna look at.
(08:06):
Maybe we're gonna look at anational response force, and so
I'm just gonna have a unitthat's gonna be in Quebec maybe,
and then we're gonna push it outto B.C. when that happens. So
we're losing that touch with thecommunity that we would be
serving, but it's still ourfellow Canadians. So those are
some things or some options thatwe're toying with.
Capt Orton (08:27):
Yeah. And for context, as it stands, the Army
has, like, these sections.Right? You got the Regular
Force, which is these larger,more centralized units that are,
you know, full time operations.You can throw them anywhere you
need to.
You have Reserve Force, which isgenerally part time soldiers,
usually smaller units that arelocated in a wider variety of
communities. And then you evenhave the Canadian Rangers that
(08:49):
are in more isolatedcommunities, and they have,
like, specific local knowledgeon their areas. How do those
pieces all come together? Like,how do you engage them? Because
the structure itself is it'slarge. There's a lot of pieces
to dig into those. How do youget all the parts moving?
LCol Bertrand (09:06):
So that's a good question and a hard question to
answer, actually. Becausewhenever a request for
assistance happens, becausethere's a crisis, because
there's a situation that'spercolating, you will see both
the Regular Force that are onbases, those big bases that we
have, they're starting tomobilize. And then you'll have
the community, which has theReserve Force, more spread out
(09:27):
in smaller numbers, littlesmaller units, but they're
affected by what's going onright now. So they will be
mobilizing as well. And then theRangers, if we're talking about,
evacuation requests that we get,so we get those quite often,
usually in the North.
So this is where we tap into ourrangers to support in those
requests for assistance. So theyreally all come together. It
(09:49):
will come under one command,usually led by a land task force
commander, and then we'll havedifferent organizations that
will play the part. So we'llhave a company for a Regular
Force, and then we'll have acompany that's augmented by
Reserve Force. And then they'llbe on the task for two weeks,
three weeks, depending how longthe crisis lasts.
Capt Orton (10:07):
You made a comment on request for assistance and,
you know, with a lot of peoplemay not understand or realize,
like, why is the Army not justgrabbing a pile of sandbags and
going out and doing the thing?You wanna explain a little bit
how that works?
LCol Bertrand (10:18):
Sure. So we have to understand as well that if we
are doing this task, which issupport to domestic operations,
there's something we're notdoing. Our main mandate is to
make sure that we'reoperationally prepared to deploy
anywhere around the world at therequest of the government to
provide support to anothercountry or to an organization.
(10:39):
When it comes to domesticoperations, we have to
understand that the provincesare actually responsible to
tackle any situation that comesabout. So whenever they're
reaching a point where theycannot or no longer help or
there's a danger to life or limbor important infrastructure and
they're gonna be overwhelmed byit.
This is where they've exploitedall the resources that they
(11:00):
would have at the provinciallevel, and then they return to
the government and say, I needhelp. So, normally, we have
liaison officers as well inpretty much every province. So
from the Canadian Armed Forcesthat are there to also advise
and say, you know what? This ishappening. We can see that
there's a major hurricane comingin the Atlantic.
So we'll have some liaisonofficers in Halifax and say, you
(11:22):
know what? We could be able tosupport with that. So here's the
effect that I can help you with.And this is where they would
request a certain type ofassistance, and they have to
request an effect. Right?
So I need help to support thefirefighters to put out the
fires. Right? So we're not thereto be firefighters. We're there
to follow behind thefirefighters and make sure we
(11:44):
put out the hot spots, and wemake sure that the fire doesn't
come back afterwards. So that'show the request comes.
So it needs to be brought infrom the province to the
Government of Canada and say,this is what I need help with.
And then the government willlook at it with the Army and
say, hey. How can we help withthat request? Do I just throw an
airplane because I need toevacuate people? Do I throw
(12:06):
personnel from the Army becauseI need people to fill in
sandbags and to help with thefloods, for example?
So this is how the request willcome in. There will be normally
a time associated with it. Hey.I need support for the next two
weeks. Usually, we see a twoweek kind of time frame, and
this can be shortened or thiscan get extended once again.
But that will be a secondrequest that will come in to
(12:26):
say, hey, I need more time to beable to deal with that problem.
Capt Orton (12:31):
Now speaking of things that you can't do, like,
I remember, when I was deployedwith the Olympics, that was a
pretty big domestic operationthat was happening in B.C. As we
were patrolling our area to makesure people weren't, like,
trying to sneak into theOlympics or nothing bad was
gonna happen, we were connectedwith law enforcement and
conservation officers, and wegenerally can't conduct any law
(12:55):
enforcement stuff because that'snot within the scope of what we
do. And, I was wondering, whatare some things that we don't
do?
LCol Bertrand (13:03):
So that would be the main one. So I'll give you a
perfect example where I believeit was in the first request for
RFA that we had receivedinitially for this year. So
we'll call it 23-01. So that wasthe first set of forest fires
that we had. And because theywere displacing a lot of
personnel and putting them into,for lack of better terms, a kind
of like a staging area, so theprovince was afraid of a little
(13:25):
bit of civil unrest or a littlebit of loitering or, you know,
like some, some quarrels inbetween the people that would be
there.
So one of the tasks in the RFAthat we originally received was
to help to maintain the peacethere. And we said that we
cannot do. We are not there toprovide policing function on our
own citizens. That's not whatthe, the CAF is there to do.
(13:48):
Yeah.
Capt Orton (13:48):
There's a good quote from a show that I've seen where
it goes something along thelines of the military is there
to fight the enemy of the state,and the police are there to
protect the people. And when theenemy becomes the people, that
becomes a really complicatedexperience. And, you know, we
don't really wanna be put inthat position unless it's, like,
everything is just fallingapart, really.
LCol Bertrand (14:07):
Exactly. Same thing. Whenever we get a request
for support or for assistancefor the floods and we have to
evacuate personnel, we stillcan't force residents to
actually evacuate. We're thereto support and to help them and
bring them out of the the area.But if they decide they wanna
stay, that's not for us to forcethem either. So these are the
kinds of things that we wouldnot be doing.
Capt Orton (14:29):
So how is training for domestic operations
different than internationaloperations? Like, what do we do
differently to prepare for that?
LCol Bertrand (14:37):
So in terms of preparing for domestic
operations, I would say otherthan for the firefighting task,
which once again, we are not thefirefighters, but there's no
training that's reallyassociated with it. Right? So
we're often talking aboutfloods, hurricanes, maybe even
heavy snowfalls. Everybody'sshoveled their driveway before
(14:59):
so we can support into that.
And then we would have for thefloods. You know, it's mainly
sandbags. It's patrolling alsoto make sure that, you know, we
can give some directions as wellto the province to say, hey.
That bridge is about to be out.It was out. We need support
there. You're gonna need torepair that. Right? So this is
the function we would have. Soin terms of training, not much.
The main training is to makesure we remain ready.
(15:20):
So that means into our physicalaspect. So be in physical good
shape as well as our medical isalso good to go. So what you
wouldn't want happening is amember on support of, floods and
then, has to go in because alltheir medical is outdated and
then they're not doing well.Right? So you wanna make sure
you're on top physical shapefor that. That's really the main
(15:41):
training.
In terms of the firefighting,this is where we have a two day
course that is designed to helpus, be on the lookout, know
exactly how to put out those hotspots, and make sure also that
we know how to conduct ourselveswhen we're following the line of
firefighters that are battlingthe fire.
Capt Orton (15:59):
Well, and that just highlights you're talking about
patrolling a little bit as anexample. Is it really highlights
how we have, on the officer sideof the house a little bit more,
you have the operationalplanning process. So that's just
planning to do a thing. Itdoesn't really matter whether
it's combat operations orwhatever. And then, patrolling,
for example, is walking aroundthe place, looking at things.
You might be ready for a fight,but if there's no fight, you're
(16:20):
still recording information,you're doing what's known as a
patrol report, you're takingdetails on what's happening in
that area, you're reporting itto higher. Those are all
versatile tools that as part ofour natural training, we do it,
and then it can apply in acombat operation situation or in
a domestic operation situation.It it just works.
LCol Bertrand (16:37):
Exactly. I think sometimes that we are highly
trained for it, and it'ssomething that would come
naturally to anybody that says,hey go into that village and
make sure everybody's out, andthen you would take back the
information, push that to yourchain and command, and say,
well, I saw a few people thatare staying there. Maybe there's
something deeper that we need totalk with the mayor or that we
need to talk with the actualcity so that we can tackle this
(16:59):
situation because right now, wecan't do more. So that's the
kind of training that we wouldbring to the table. It wouldn't
be a specific training for thedomestic operation, but because
of our training forinternational operations, we can
just apply it to it.
Capt Orton (17:14):
Well, and also, CIMIC or civil-military
cooperation is a specializationtraining that exists that people
can take that's, again, used oninternational operations to
connect with local partners,whether it be non-governmental
organizations or local leadersor industry in that area to help
get things done. And there'sprobably some pretty good
(17:35):
translation to how that appliesagain in a domestic context.
LCol Bertrand (17:39):
I've never done the CIMIC courses, but it would
absolutely be transferable. Andusually, in your organization,
you'll have a few folks thatwould have had that training as
well. Now it is not mandatoryfor our domestic operation
execution. But, yeah, that wouldbe a great tool to have in your
toolbox.
Capt Orton (17:55):
So can you tell us maybe the story of a recent
domestic operation that we'vestood up, and kind of how all
the pieces came together? Like,how did we engage with the
people? How did we select whatwas gonna happen? Can you take
us through a little bit ofsomething that might have
happened recently?
LCol Bertrand (18:09):
So I can run over a few. I don't think I can go
that much into the detailsbecause in my role, what I'm
doing basically is telling whichunit, alright, you're gonna go
and you're gonna deploy for thisdomestic operation because we've
received the request. Once I dodeploy the division and the
unit, then they belong to CJOC,so they Canadian Joint
Operations Command. So they'rethe ones that are responsible to
(18:31):
control what's gonna happen onthe ground. But in terms of how
did it happen for the summer,because it was quite busy.
We went up to 8 requests of RFAsthat were accepted by the
government, and we weren'tinvolved, the Canadian Army, and
all 8 of them. So mainly forestfires. Yeah. That has happened
all across the country. So Ithink one of the ones that is a
(18:53):
bit more out of the box that wewere not used to doing, which
would be the most interesting,is 23-07, which was the
Northwest Territories.
So, normally, we have eachdivision has their own troops
that are on standby. So IRUs,Immediate Response Units that
are ready to respond to any kindof domestic operations that
would happen. So every divisionhas their own troops that are
(19:16):
put on that standby 24 hoursnotice to move. They're always
ready to go. So it's been verybusy for 3 Div.
So everything out west. So B.C.,Alberta, it was quite busy this
summer. So they were really,really requested. When 23-07, so
the Northwest Territorieshappen, So we had folks that was
(19:38):
already from 3 Div alreadydeployed and busy with current
forest fires in Alberta and inB.C. So we had to make a
decision as Canadian Army.
Are we gonna ask 3 Division onceagain to have other troops? Now
we're taking other troops, andnow it has a big trickle down
effect to the internationaloperations. Or am I looking
(19:59):
what's going on as well in inthe rest of the country, and
maybe I can deploy somebody froma different area. And that's
what we ended up doing. So whatwe decided to do was we were
looking at the prediction thatwe could see as well in the
forecast, and, we identified 2Division in Quebec to be a good
unit to deploy to the NorthwestTerritories.
(20:21):
Now that came with a greatchallenge because we have to
understand, we, as the CanadianArmy, do not control our
strategic lift. So it was acombined effort with the
Canadian Joint OperationsCommand. So CJOC, who's in
control of it, to say, okay. Howare we gonna get those troops
over there now? Because we gottafly them over and the logistics
that goes behind it.
(20:41):
So, normally, when you have anorganization that works into
their area, then their logistictrail will follow. So their
food, their water, their truckswill all follow. Now we had to
push everything from elsewhere.3 Div was still very, very much
involved into supporting withthe logistics aspect of it. But
it's still about a 20 hour drivefrom Edmonton all the way to,
(21:05):
Yellowknife where the fires werehappening.
So that was quite a bit of achallenge for this year. They
arrived there, and thenYellowknife had to evacuate. So
at the same time, where you havethe head of the operation, which
was in Yellowknife, because thatwas Joint Task Force North that
was responsible to control allthe elements, well, they had to
evacuate atthe same time, so that was quite a challenge for them. So a lot of back and forth, a lot of
(21:31):
communication in between all theelements to make sure that the
troops were there to help, butwe got them out safely as well,
staged them somewhere, and thenreturned them to where they had
to be.
Capt Orton (21:39):
And one thing we haven't had a chance to talk
about a lot on the Podcast islogistics, but you just
highlighted some of thosechallenges is the Air Force
controls the airplanes. The Armycontrols the people. Somebody in
the middle needs to kindacoordinate all of that stuff,
and then you gotta get the stuffthere, and you got your food,
your water, and all of this. Andbecause where you're going, you
maybe don't have access that allthe vehicles. Sometimes there
(22:00):
isn't roads to get there, like,you literally can't drive there.
Maybe the Navy is shipping stufffor you, you don't know. And
then on top of that, when youhit the ground, if you're
evacuating from, like, what Iwould call, like, a "hard
headquarters" that's in abuilding or something like that,
you gotta set up in the field,somebody has to set up all your
telecommunications, you don'tjust, like, roll onto the scene
and you've you got computernetworks and satellite
(22:22):
connections and all that stuff.There's a bunch of people that
need to get out there. They needto set it all up. They need to
connect to all these things,make it all happen so that these
soldiers from all thesedifferent places show up there
and are ready to go to do thething.
LCol Bertrand (22:34):
Yeah. There's a lot of coordination that happens
before and during becauseusually we don't have much time.
If it's a request forassistance, it's because things
are not going well. So you needto act quickly and you need to
react quickly as well. So asyou're sending your first
initial troops, they're startingto set this up, then the rest of
the big group arrives, and thenthey're they're wanna start
(22:55):
working.
Have we made all the liasons onas well with the province? Yes.
We're ready to go. Well, where'sthe trail gonna follow? So if I
go back to thatNorthwest Territory event, so in
Yellowknife, it took about threedays for the logistics to
actually catch up.
So we had folks there with justbasically their rucks on their
backs and whatever they had inthere to be able to to survive
(23:16):
for the next three days.
Capt Orton (23:18):
Twenty-four hours self sufficient!
LCol Bertrand (23:19):
Well, exactly. So we're we're all military. We're
all trained to do this kind ofstuff. But at the same time,
you're fighting in conditions aswell that are not yeah. There
might not be an enemy in thesense of the term that we
usually use it, but it's not aneasy situation.
Air quality is so so poor.You're doing it in conditions
that are not ideal either. Soour soldiers are really good to
(23:41):
be able to pull it through.
Capt Orton (23:42):
So with all this being said, does it work? Are we
doing it? Is it helping?
LCol Bertrand (23:47):
So it is. I mean, there's always some lull in the
battle. Right? So that's what Icall it. So there's always some
times, well, we gotta get therereally, really quickly.
And then we get there, and weactually get there before the
province is ready to receive us.So sometimes a little bit of a
lag time. Are we employed forthe entire two weeks every day,
every minute, every hour? Ofcourse not. So there will be
(24:08):
some little lag time.
Are we helping? Absolutely. Ifwe weren't doing it, would the
province be able to find asolution? Perhaps. But that
means with more planning, withmore time, with more money, with
more everything.
It's the same thing foreveryone. So if we're there, we
can be able to help. It's alwaysa great thing to be able to help
your community. I mean, there'ssome troops that came back from,
(24:28):
I believe it was from B.C., andthey got stopped into a rest
stop. And people came up to themand and were saying thank you so
much for helping us.
Thank you for doing that. Sothere's some great work that's
being done. And when it's tohelp your community, it's very
rewarding that way.
Capt Orton (24:43):
Well, that's great. I think, I think we're doing it.
That's what we're here for, Iguess, is to help our people,
our team.
LCol Bertrand (24:49):
Absolutely.
Capt Orton (24:49):
Alright. Well, thanks so much for coming on the
Podcast, ma'am.
LCol Bertrand (24:51):
Well, thanks for having me.
Capt Orton (24:55):
That was Lieutenant-Colonel Geneviève
Bertrand from the Canadian ArmyHeadquarters here in Ottawa. I'm
Captain Adam Orton for theCanadian Army Podcast. Orton
out!
We joined for international operations, but
also to help our fellowcitizens. But this comes at a
cost.
Capt Orton (00:13):
Hi. I'm Captain Adam Orton with the Canadian Army
Podcast. In the past few years,the military has been called out
more and more to respond todomestic operations, be it the
pandemic, forest fires,flooding, or any number of other
emergencies. Here to explain howdomestic operations are prepared
and soldiers are sent out thedoor is
Lieutenant-Colonel GenevièveBertrand, former CO of
(00:35):
3e Royal 22e Régiment andcurrently working in the
Canadian Army Headquarters inOttawa. Welcome to the Podcast!
LCol Bertrand (00:40):
Well, thank you and thank you for having me.
Capt Orton (00:43):
So if we look at military equipment, you know,
our uniforms, our vehicles, ourtraining, a lot of that is
focused on combat operations.You know, you don't need a 25
ton LAV to go out and fightfloods. So why is the Army
useful in domestic operations inemergency response?
LCol Bertrand (01:02):
So I would say because our troops are kind of,
trained to answer to a plethoraof requests, So they will be
able to just react quickly. Wedo have great training as well
as part of just organizing ourwork that we need to do.
Whenever there's a request fordom ops, domestic operations, it
(01:23):
really is because everythingelse has failed and we need to
go and provide assistance to thepopulation. So our ability to
actually plan quickly within thechain of command and as well for
our troops to execute whateverthat plan is, is actually quite
useful. So if we're looking atfloods, you know, we're gonna
talk about sandbags.
We're gonna talk about justvehicles to transport the troops
(01:44):
back and forth in the equipment.And sometimes those big
vehicles, those big LAVs arekinda useful for whenever the
roads are flooded. So this iswhere it it will become a good
thing to have our troops to goand support the population.
Capt Orton (01:58):
You know, we spend a lot of time refining kind of our
tools in the toolbox and beingflexible to have options because
when the next thing pops up,whatever it is, we have to be
able to respond to it. But wecan't necessarily plan for what
that is because by nature, it'salways some kind of emergency,
whether it be military orotherwise.
LCol Bertrand (02:17):
Absolutely. I mean, when we look at the
weather forecast, we can alittle bit plan on what's gonna
happen. So this summer, forexample, was a great example
where early on, we saw that itwas going to be a a pretty high
fire index summer, and we wentout on a few operations to help
with that. But like you justsaid, when it came to COVID and
when it came to to the supportthat we gave for Op LASER and
(02:38):
VECTOR, we were not prepared forthat at all, but we were able to
rise to the challenge justbecause we looked at the
problem. And because we're usedto planning, it was something
that we could do looking at aproblem and coming up with a
solution to try to tackle thatproblem.
Capt Orton (02:53):
Yeah. The Commander of the Army also has said, you
know, our greatest strength isour people. That's the thing
that comes up a lot. And havingthat relatively vast resource of
people that we can put almostanywhere in Canada and even to
an extent with enough timelineanywhere in the globe, that's a
pretty big, powerful batterythat we have to power these
operations.
LCol Bertrand (03:14):
It is. And and whenever we're talking about
domestic operations, it's nevera good thing. Right? It's rarely
a a positive thing that'shappening. So it's either
floods, it's either the forestfires, or it could be even, we
had some quite intensive,snowstorms back in the Atlantic.
Or it could be the hurricanes.So usually, it's very close and
close to the heart of thesoldiers as well because that's
(03:34):
where they live. That's theirarea. So, of course, we're
really eager to help, and we'realways happy to have contributed
to something and to have donegood for the population.
Capt Orton (03:44):
One thing I've noticed from what you've been
talking about is a lot of itseems to be fairly weather
centric. What's up with that?
LCol Bertrand (03:53):
That I'm not a meteorologist to be able to talk
about that, but we have seen anincrease into the requests for
Op LENTUS. So, really, thedomestic operations is the name
we have for it. So from 2010 toabout 2015 or 16, we were
running at about 2.25 Op LENTUSa year, right, as an average.
(04:14):
Since 2017, that has jumpeduntil 2023, that has jumped to
5.8. So we've doubled the amountof requests we receive every
year, as an average, on domesticoperations.
So we're always ready. EveryDivision has their troops that
are on kinda standby to be ableto answer the call. But, yeah,
(04:34):
there has been a differentincrease into environmental
crisis.
Capt Orton (04:38):
Yeah. I've been reading a lot about, how other
militaries including our ownhave been adding climate change
as a factor into emergencyresponse whether on
international operations or ondomestic operations, and, we've
definitely been tested by thatrecently.
LCol Bertrand (04:55):
We have. We need to pay attention to it because
we're always, as I said, eagerto help, and this is why we're
also joined. Right? We joinedfor international operations,
fires in British Columbia forthe entire summer, well, it
comes at a cost of what trainingam I not doing to prepare for an
(05:18):
international operation. it issomething that we need to keep a
close eye and have a good planbecause we can predict it's
gonna increase, but we don'tknow at what level and when is
it gonna happen.
Capt Orton (05:29):
Yeah. I know the Chief of Defense Staff has
brought up also that domesticoperations is having
increasingly significant impacton our our ability to be
prepared for things becausetroops that might be on standby
till you go on an internationaloperation or support a UN or
NATO mission or something likethat might get pulled, or people
who are on leave aka vacation,they're getting pulled back to
(05:51):
go and fight forest fires, orlike you said, is, like,
somebody in the middle of atraining cycle get stopped,
dropped, and pulled off of thattraining cycle to go and fight
forest fires?
LCol Bertrand (05:59):
Yeah. So it's something that we we always have
a force that's ready to react tothose, but that doesn't mean
they're just sitting there andwaiting for an event to happen.
They're gonna continue on withtheir other training. But like
you just mentioned, it might besomething forest fire just just
happens, and then we have tostop whatever kind of training
that we're doing at the time.And then we're gonna just keep
on with it.
It does create some schedulingconflict whenever we have that
(06:22):
unit that's identified toeventually... Maybe it could be
even in a few months that'ssupposed to go overseas to do an
operation, but that trainingneeds to happen so that it can
get there. So it is something wehave to keep a close eye on. Our
demands for internationaloperations will also continue to
increase, So that will increasethe demand as well. So we need
(06:42):
to start looking very much indetail how we're gonna tackle
this for the next couple ofyears to make sure we have the
troops available for theinternational operations, but we
also have whatever we're gonnaneed if a request for assistance
comes around.
Capt Orton (06:56):
How do you go about generating solutions to that
kind of problem? I mean, that'sa pretty complicated problem to
overcome.
LCol Bertrand (07:01):
It is. So right now, we're looking at options so
that we can propose it to theCommander so he can make a
decision. And when I'm talkingabout the Commander, so the Army
will have a thing to say, but,ultimately, it will be going up
to the CDS and to higher levelsof approval. What are we looking
at? So one of the great thingsthat we do have is our Reserve
Force.
And especially for domesticoperations, we often tap into
(07:25):
that pool of personnel. Imentioned earlier that whenever
an event happens for domesticoperations, it's very local.
It's very you know, you're inyour own turf. Right? So it's
gonna happen if there's a forestfire in B.C.
Well, the folks from B.C. aregonna be impacted by that. So by
our nature, we wanna help ourfellow citizens. The Reserve
(07:45):
Force that are there that arelocal most likely are gonna be
looking to support as well. Butthat comes at a cost as well.
Right?
So now we're talking contractsfor those reservists, which is
great. But now we're talkingmoney. So it's something I don't
control, and I have to pitch itforward to say maybe that's a
solution. Maybe we put extralong contracts. So maybe that's
something we're gonna look at.
(08:06):
Maybe we're gonna look at anational response force, and so
I'm just gonna have a unitthat's gonna be in Quebec maybe,
and then we're gonna push it outto B.C. when that happens. So
we're losing that touch with thecommunity that we would be
serving, but it's still ourfellow Canadians. So those are
some things or some options thatwe're toying with.
Capt Orton (08:27):
Yeah. And for context, as it stands, the Army
has, like, these sections.Right? You got the Regular
Force, which is these larger,more centralized units that are,
you know, full time operations.You can throw them anywhere you
need to.
You have Reserve Force, which isgenerally part time soldiers,
usually smaller units that arelocated in a wider variety of
communities. And then you evenhave the Canadian Rangers that
(08:49):
are in more isolatedcommunities, and they have,
like, specific local knowledgeon their areas. How do those
pieces all come together? Like,how do you engage them? Because
the structure itself is it'slarge. There's a lot of pieces
to dig into those. How do youget all the parts moving?
LCol Bertrand (09:06):
So that's a good question and a hard question to
answer, actually. Becausewhenever a request for
assistance happens, becausethere's a crisis, because
there's a situation that'spercolating, you will see both
the Regular Force that are onbases, those big bases that we
have, they're starting tomobilize. And then you'll have
the community, which has theReserve Force, more spread out
(09:27):
in smaller numbers, littlesmaller units, but they're
affected by what's going onright now. So they will be
mobilizing as well. And then theRangers, if we're talking about,
evacuation requests that we get,so we get those quite often,
usually in the North.
So this is where we tap into ourrangers to support in those
requests for assistance. So theyreally all come together. It
(09:49):
will come under one command,usually led by a land task force
commander, and then we'll havedifferent organizations that
will play the part. So we'llhave a company for a Regular
Force, and then we'll have acompany that's augmented by
Reserve Force. And then they'llbe on the task for two weeks,
three weeks, depending how longthe crisis lasts.
Capt Orton (10:07):
You made a comment on request for assistance and,
you know, with a lot of peoplemay not understand or realize,
like, why is the Army not justgrabbing a pile of sandbags and
going out and doing the thing?You wanna explain a little bit
how that works?
LCol Bertrand (10:18):
Sure. So we have to understand as well that if we
are doing this task, which issupport to domestic operations,
there's something we're notdoing. Our main mandate is to
make sure that we'reoperationally prepared to deploy
anywhere around the world at therequest of the government to
provide support to anothercountry or to an organization.
(10:39):
When it comes to domesticoperations, we have to
understand that the provincesare actually responsible to
tackle any situation that comesabout. So whenever they're
reaching a point where theycannot or no longer help or
there's a danger to life or limbor important infrastructure and
they're gonna be overwhelmed byit.
This is where they've exploitedall the resources that they
(11:00):
would have at the provinciallevel, and then they return to
the government and say, I needhelp. So, normally, we have
liaison officers as well inpretty much every province. So
from the Canadian Armed Forcesthat are there to also advise
and say, you know what? This ishappening. We can see that
there's a major hurricane comingin the Atlantic.
So we'll have some liaisonofficers in Halifax and say, you
(11:22):
know what? We could be able tosupport with that. So here's the
effect that I can help you with.And this is where they would
request a certain type ofassistance, and they have to
request an effect. Right?
So I need help to support thefirefighters to put out the
fires. Right? So we're not thereto be firefighters. We're there
to follow behind thefirefighters and make sure we
(11:44):
put out the hot spots, and wemake sure that the fire doesn't
come back afterwards. So that'show the request comes.
So it needs to be brought infrom the province to the
Government of Canada and say,this is what I need help with.
And then the government willlook at it with the Army and
say, hey. How can we help withthat request? Do I just throw an
airplane because I need toevacuate people? Do I throw
(12:06):
personnel from the Army becauseI need people to fill in
sandbags and to help with thefloods, for example?
So this is how the request willcome in. There will be normally
a time associated with it. Hey.I need support for the next two
weeks. Usually, we see a twoweek kind of time frame, and
this can be shortened or thiscan get extended once again.
But that will be a secondrequest that will come in to
(12:26):
say, hey, I need more time to beable to deal with that problem.
Capt Orton (12:31):
Now speaking of things that you can't do, like,
I remember, when I was deployedwith the Olympics, that was a
pretty big domestic operationthat was happening in B.C. As we
were patrolling our area to makesure people weren't, like,
trying to sneak into theOlympics or nothing bad was
gonna happen, we were connectedwith law enforcement and
conservation officers, and wegenerally can't conduct any law
(12:55):
enforcement stuff because that'snot within the scope of what we
do. And, I was wondering, whatare some things that we don't
do?
LCol Bertrand (13:03):
So that would be the main one. So I'll give you a
perfect example where I believeit was in the first request for
RFA that we had receivedinitially for this year. So
we'll call it 23-01. So that wasthe first set of forest fires
that we had. And because theywere displacing a lot of
personnel and putting them into,for lack of better terms, a kind
of like a staging area, so theprovince was afraid of a little
(13:25):
bit of civil unrest or a littlebit of loitering or, you know,
like some, some quarrels inbetween the people that would be
there.
So one of the tasks in the RFAthat we originally received was
to help to maintain the peacethere. And we said that we
cannot do. We are not there toprovide policing function on our
own citizens. That's not whatthe, the CAF is there to do.
(13:48):
Yeah.
Capt Orton (13:48):
There's a good quote from a show that I've seen where
it goes something along thelines of the military is there
to fight the enemy of the state,and the police are there to
protect the people. And when theenemy becomes the people, that
becomes a really complicatedexperience. And, you know, we
don't really wanna be put inthat position unless it's, like,
everything is just fallingapart, really.
LCol Bertrand (14:07):
Exactly. Same thing. Whenever we get a request
for support or for assistancefor the floods and we have to
evacuate personnel, we stillcan't force residents to
actually evacuate. We're thereto support and to help them and
bring them out of the the area.But if they decide they wanna
stay, that's not for us to forcethem either. So these are the
kinds of things that we wouldnot be doing.
Capt Orton (14:29):
So how is training for domestic operations
different than internationaloperations? Like, what do we do
differently to prepare for that?
LCol Bertrand (14:37):
So in terms of preparing for domestic
operations, I would say otherthan for the firefighting task,
which once again, we are not thefirefighters, but there's no
training that's reallyassociated with it. Right? So
we're often talking aboutfloods, hurricanes, maybe even
heavy snowfalls. Everybody'sshoveled their driveway before
(14:59):
so we can support into that.
And then we would have for thefloods. You know, it's mainly
sandbags. It's patrolling alsoto make sure that, you know, we
can give some directions as wellto the province to say, hey.
That bridge is about to be out.It was out. We need support
there. You're gonna need torepair that. Right? So this is
the function we would have. Soin terms of training, not much.
The main training is to makesure we remain ready.
(15:20):
So that means into our physicalaspect. So be in physical good
shape as well as our medical isalso good to go. So what you
wouldn't want happening is amember on support of, floods and
then, has to go in because alltheir medical is outdated and
then they're not doing well.Right? So you wanna make sure
you're on top physical shapefor that. That's really the main
(15:41):
training.
In terms of the firefighting,this is where we have a two day
course that is designed to helpus, be on the lookout, know
exactly how to put out those hotspots, and make sure also that
we know how to conduct ourselveswhen we're following the line of
firefighters that are battlingthe fire.
Capt Orton (15:59):
Well, and that just highlights you're talking about
patrolling a little bit as anexample. Is it really highlights
how we have, on the officer sideof the house a little bit more,
you have the operationalplanning process. So that's just
planning to do a thing. Itdoesn't really matter whether
it's combat operations orwhatever. And then, patrolling,
for example, is walking aroundthe place, looking at things.
You might be ready for a fight,but if there's no fight, you're
(16:20):
still recording information,you're doing what's known as a
patrol report, you're takingdetails on what's happening in
that area, you're reporting itto higher. Those are all
versatile tools that as part ofour natural training, we do it,
and then it can apply in acombat operation situation or in
a domestic operation situation.It it just works.
LCol Bertrand (16:37):
Exactly. I think sometimes that we are highly
trained for it, and it'ssomething that would come
naturally to anybody that says,hey go into that village and
make sure everybody's out, andthen you would take back the
information, push that to yourchain and command, and say,
well, I saw a few people thatare staying there. Maybe there's
something deeper that we need totalk with the mayor or that we
need to talk with the actualcity so that we can tackle this
(16:59):
situation because right now, wecan't do more. So that's the
kind of training that we wouldbring to the table. It wouldn't
be a specific training for thedomestic operation, but because
of our training forinternational operations, we can
just apply it to it.
Capt Orton (17:14):
Well, and also, CIMIC or civil-military
cooperation is a specializationtraining that exists that people
can take that's, again, used oninternational operations to
connect with local partners,whether it be non-governmental
organizations or local leadersor industry in that area to help
get things done. And there'sprobably some pretty good
(17:35):
translation to how that appliesagain in a domestic context.
LCol Bertrand (17:39):
I've never done the CIMIC courses, but it would
absolutely be transferable. Andusually, in your organization,
you'll have a few folks thatwould have had that training as
well. Now it is not mandatoryfor our domestic operation
execution. But, yeah, that wouldbe a great tool to have in your
toolbox.
Capt Orton (17:55):
So can you tell us maybe the story of a recent
domestic operation that we'vestood up, and kind of how all
the pieces came together? Like,how did we engage with the
people? How did we select whatwas gonna happen? Can you take
us through a little bit ofsomething that might have
happened recently?
LCol Bertrand (18:09):
So I can run over a few. I don't think I can go
that much into the detailsbecause in my role, what I'm
doing basically is telling whichunit, alright, you're gonna go
and you're gonna deploy for thisdomestic operation because we've
received the request. Once I dodeploy the division and the
unit, then they belong to CJOC,so they Canadian Joint
Operations Command. So they'rethe ones that are responsible to
(18:31):
control what's gonna happen onthe ground. But in terms of how
did it happen for the summer,because it was quite busy.
We went up to 8 requests of RFAsthat were accepted by the
government, and we weren'tinvolved, the Canadian Army, and
all 8 of them. So mainly forestfires. Yeah. That has happened
all across the country. So Ithink one of the ones that is a
(18:53):
bit more out of the box that wewere not used to doing, which
would be the most interesting,is 23-07, which was the
Northwest Territories.
So, normally, we have eachdivision has their own troops
that are on standby. So IRUs,Immediate Response Units that
are ready to respond to any kindof domestic operations that
would happen. So every divisionhas their own troops that are
(19:16):
put on that standby 24 hoursnotice to move. They're always
ready to go. So it's been verybusy for 3 Div.
So everything out west. So B.C.,Alberta, it was quite busy this
summer. So they were really,really requested. When 23-07, so
the Northwest Territorieshappen, So we had folks that was
(19:38):
already from 3 Div alreadydeployed and busy with current
forest fires in Alberta and inB.C. So we had to make a
decision as Canadian Army.
Are we gonna ask 3 Division onceagain to have other troops? Now
we're taking other troops, andnow it has a big trickle down
effect to the internationaloperations. Or am I looking
(19:59):
what's going on as well in inthe rest of the country, and
maybe I can deploy somebody froma different area. And that's
what we ended up doing. So whatwe decided to do was we were
looking at the prediction thatwe could see as well in the
forecast, and, we identified 2Division in Quebec to be a good
unit to deploy to the NorthwestTerritories.
(20:21):
Now that came with a greatchallenge because we have to
understand, we, as the CanadianArmy, do not control our
strategic lift. So it was acombined effort with the
Canadian Joint OperationsCommand. So CJOC, who's in
control of it, to say, okay. Howare we gonna get those troops
over there now? Because we gottafly them over and the logistics
that goes behind it.
(20:41):
So, normally, when you have anorganization that works into
their area, then their logistictrail will follow. So their
food, their water, their truckswill all follow. Now we had to
push everything from elsewhere.3 Div was still very, very much
involved into supporting withthe logistics aspect of it. But
it's still about a 20 hour drivefrom Edmonton all the way to,
(21:05):
Yellowknife where the fires werehappening.
So that was quite a bit of achallenge for this year. They
arrived there, and thenYellowknife had to evacuate. So
at the same time, where you havethe head of the operation, which
was in Yellowknife, because thatwas Joint Task Force North that
was responsible to control allthe elements, well, they had to
evacuate atthe same time, so that was quite a challenge for them. So a lot of back and forth, a lot of
(21:31):
communication in between all theelements to make sure that the
troops were there to help, butwe got them out safely as well,
staged them somewhere, and thenreturned them to where they had
to be.
Capt Orton (21:39):
And one thing we haven't had a chance to talk
about a lot on the Podcast islogistics, but you just
highlighted some of thosechallenges is the Air Force
controls the airplanes. The Armycontrols the people. Somebody in
the middle needs to kindacoordinate all of that stuff,
and then you gotta get the stuffthere, and you got your food,
your water, and all of this. Andbecause where you're going, you
maybe don't have access that allthe vehicles. Sometimes there
(22:00):
isn't roads to get there, like,you literally can't drive there.
Maybe the Navy is shipping stufffor you, you don't know. And
then on top of that, when youhit the ground, if you're
evacuating from, like, what Iwould call, like, a "hard
headquarters" that's in abuilding or something like that,
you gotta set up in the field,somebody has to set up all your
telecommunications, you don'tjust, like, roll onto the scene
and you've you got computernetworks and satellite
(22:22):
connections and all that stuff.There's a bunch of people that
need to get out there. They needto set it all up. They need to
connect to all these things,make it all happen so that these
soldiers from all thesedifferent places show up there
and are ready to go to do thething.
LCol Bertrand (22:34):
Yeah. There's a lot of coordination that happens
before and during becauseusually we don't have much time.
If it's a request forassistance, it's because things
are not going well. So you needto act quickly and you need to
react quickly as well. So asyou're sending your first
initial troops, they're startingto set this up, then the rest of
the big group arrives, and thenthey're they're wanna start
(22:55):
working.
Have we made all the liasons onas well with the province? Yes.
We're ready to go. Well, where'sthe trail gonna follow? So if I
go back to thatNorthwest Territory event, so in
Yellowknife, it took about threedays for the logistics to
actually catch up.
So we had folks there with justbasically their rucks on their
backs and whatever they had inthere to be able to to survive
(23:16):
for the next three days.
Capt Orton (23:18):
Twenty-four hours self sufficient!
LCol Bertrand (23:19):
Well, exactly. So we're we're all military. We're
all trained to do this kind ofstuff. But at the same time,
you're fighting in conditions aswell that are not yeah. There
might not be an enemy in thesense of the term that we
usually use it, but it's not aneasy situation.
Air quality is so so poor.You're doing it in conditions
that are not ideal either. Soour soldiers are really good to
(23:41):
be able to pull it through.
Capt Orton (23:42):
So with all this being said, does it work? Are we
doing it? Is it helping?
LCol Bertrand (23:47):
So it is. I mean, there's always some lull in the
battle. Right? So that's what Icall it. So there's always some
times, well, we gotta get therereally, really quickly.
And then we get there, and weactually get there before the
province is ready to receive us.So sometimes a little bit of a
lag time. Are we employed forthe entire two weeks every day,
every minute, every hour? Ofcourse not. So there will be
(24:08):
some little lag time.
Are we helping? Absolutely. Ifwe weren't doing it, would the
province be able to find asolution? Perhaps. But that
means with more planning, withmore time, with more money, with
more everything.
It's the same thing foreveryone. So if we're there, we
can be able to help. It's alwaysa great thing to be able to help
your community. I mean, there'ssome troops that came back from,
(24:28):
I believe it was from B.C., andthey got stopped into a rest
stop. And people came up to themand and were saying thank you so
much for helping us.
Thank you for doing that. Sothere's some great work that's
being done. And when it's tohelp your community, it's very
rewarding that way.
Capt Orton (24:43):
Well, that's great. I think, I think we're doing it.
That's what we're here for, Iguess, is to help our people,
our team.
LCol Bertrand (24:49):
Absolutely.
Capt Orton (24:49):
Alright. Well, thanks so much for coming on the
Podcast, ma'am.
LCol Bertrand (24:51):
Well, thanks for having me.
Capt Orton (24:55):
That was Lieutenant-Colonel Geneviève
Bertrand from the Canadian ArmyHeadquarters here in Ottawa. I'm
Captain Adam Orton for theCanadian Army Podcast. Orton
out!
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!