February 21, 2024 • 25 mins
Musicians. The military has many of them and for good reason. They are there to help us celebrate the good times and reflect during sombre times. Corporals Hélène Fortier and Michel Cousineau of the Regimental Band of the Governor General’s Foot Guards go into detail about life as a musician and their role within the Forces. And of course, they give a performance in the podcast studio!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Capt Orton (00:12):
Hi. I'm Captain Adam Orton with the Canadian Army
Podcast. Go to any majormilitary event and you'll see
them there (00:18):
musicians. The military has a long standing
history of epic bands to carrytroops into battle, add flavour
to events whether they're solemnor joyful, and provide
entertainment in the communitieswhere soldiers live Here talking
to us about military musiciansare Corporal Hélène Fortier...
Cpl Fortier (00:34):
That's me!
Capt Orton (00:37):
...and Corporal Michel Cousineau..
Cpl Cousineau (00:38):
Thanks for having us!
Capt Orton (00:39):
...who are part of the band of the Governor
General's Foot Guards.
Okay. So here's a thing that alot of people might not know is
musicians are their own tradewithin the Army. So it's
definitely a thing that we do.The military's job as a whole is
to kinda defend Canada anddestroy our enemies and such.
(00:59):
Why does the military needmusicians?
Cpl Fortier (01:02):
I guess when you first look at it, it's a valid
question. Like, what do webring? Because what we bring to
the military might not be asobvious. Yes, we're not the ones
that will go at the front anddefend against the enemy. We're
kind of in in the back seathere, but we provide a lot of
indirect value to support ourbrothers and sisters in the
(01:25):
military.
On the psychological side of it,whenever they have funerals,
whenever they lose brothers andsisters in arms, were there for
those ceremonies that are soimportant. Imagine having a
remembrance day not having atrumpet player playing the last
post. They need to grievesometimes or they need to
(01:46):
celebrate and we're there forthat, we're there for their
party time and they need todecompress because the job of
the soldiers is so intensesometimes. And we're not the
only ones who have career in theback seat, you know. The office
people, the medical people,sometimes they're not actively
the soldier with the rifle atthe front, but there's so many
(02:07):
career opportunities in themilitary, and they're not always
super related to what weperceive as the job of a
soldier.
We are being thanked regularlyby all levels of ranks in the
military because we bringsomething. But, yes, it doesn't
doesn't look that obvious. Soyour question is very valid.
Capt Orton (02:28):
You know, I really like that answer too because
there is definitely a value inemphasizing a joyful time, makes
that time better. It adds to thevalue of that decompression
experience. Or like you said, wehave to go through that grieving
process or, you know, have thatdecompression. And I think also
on the other side of the house,some people might make the
argument, oh, well, why not justget civilian musicians? But
(02:49):
it's, like, having somebody whogets it, and it's integrated
into that whole life, that wholesystem.
They understand kind of whatyou're going through, what the
military is, how it allfunctions, and how it all comes
together. Having somebody whounderstands that, being a part
of it, it's it's your teamthat's helping you out and and
sharing that moment with you. SoI think you hit the nail on the
head. Like, that's a reallyvalue add that maybe people
(03:11):
don't spend a lot of timeconsidering.
Cpl Cousineau (03:13):
Well, the military has a long history of,
music within the regiments goingall the way back to even during
wartime, how music really bringspeople together, and you'd have
your troops singing variouswartime tunes. Every unit has
regimental marches, and, weperform those when we play for
various functions, but, messdinners, for example. And, when
(03:34):
we play a regimental march, themembers from that unit will
usually stand up. Some of themare so proud to hear their
march. They'll get up on theirchair, or I've seen them get up
on the table.
Right. Some people will gladlysing along. So not only do we
provide ambiance for the dinneritself, but we, we get to
recognize those regimentalmarches afterwards. We often
(03:57):
parade in public, and, we arethe face of the military in the
public eye. We provide aconnection to, the public
because they don't have a chanceto see our troops in training or
our troops in combat, but theyget to see troops on parade in
ceremonial dress and, providesthat much needed link.
So I think, we we wear manyhats, both, literally and
(04:20):
figuratively.
Cpl Fortier (04:22):
And, we also do concerts for the general public,
we do military functions, ordiplomats events, like we do
music at their dinners or theirmeetings and cocktails and stuff
like that. We're part of, a lotof parades inside military
(04:43):
events like changing of commandsand in the different units. We
bring, marches and we're part ofthe official ceremonies. Oh, we
have so many aspects that we area part of.
Capt Orton (04:56):
And then I think the other part is there's a lot of
non musical duties thatmusicians do too. You wanna talk
about that?
Cpl Cousineau (05:03):
Well, most of our duties are musical in nature, so
we do need to maintain a basiclevel of training. So we do need
to maintain our personal weaponstraining. There's also the force
test that we need to completeevery year to make sure that
we're maintaining a level offitness.
Cpl Fortier (05:20):
And that makes me think what you just said that
musicians are, in general, veryfit. They're not less fit than
the others. So we can alsoparticipate at, different
missions inside Canada forflooding and for help during the
pandemic. So there are differenttasks that the military does for
(05:43):
the country that musicians cando. A lot of us have done some
clerk jobs and sometimes, we wecan still be deployed in
anywhere in the world doingclerk work.
So sometimes it's not only themusic, we also do other jobs in
the military.
Capt Orton (06:00):
So how does somebody become a musician in the Forces?
How do how does it all getstarted?
Cpl Cousineau (06:06):
Well, in my experience, I had a couple
friends that joined to play withthe Ceremonial Guard on
Parliament Hill, And they had ablast and told me that I needed
to join and do the same. Iwasn't really aware of the
opportunities available tomusicians in the military until
my colleagues explained to metheir experience. So most
(06:27):
musicians that, are part of theGovernor General's Foot Guards
are students in university andthey'll apply through their
local recruiting center,complete their BMQ, basic
military qualifications, andthen join their local regiment,
start playing with the band.
Capt Orton (06:44):
How'd you get your start?
Cpl Fortier (06:45):
Oh, my start was very different. I could have
been starting back in universitywhen I was in Quebec City, but
nobody was doing any recruitingin my university back then, and
I had no friends doing it, nofamily in the military. So I did
really, like, jobs at minimumsalary that were not necessarily
(07:06):
rewarding where I could havebeen doing that. First of all,
the musicians in the militaryare, for almost the majority,
already trained musician. Themilitary, they give us some
training, but we arrive by musicaudition.
So we're usually trained ahead.We're usually, we have music
degrees, so, which I had. Soanyway, fast forward, my
(07:26):
twenties, my thirties, moved toOttawa, became a teacher, a mom,
still playing a bit of music onthe civilian side. And only in
my forties, I was playing in acivilian band, and the teacher
from my school board, who's inthe military, approached me. And
she said, why don't you join thegovernor general, Foote guards?
And I said, what is this? I hadlived in Ottawa for years and
(07:47):
didn't even know it existed. Iknew ceremonial guard. I was
bringing my daughter to theparades every summer and thought
with a bit of, oh, I should havebeen doing that when I was a
student and kind of, oh, Ipassed the moment and I'm too
old now. So fast forward, I wasin my forties and this colleague
said, why don't you join thefootguards?
(08:09):
And I said, what do I need todo? And she said, oh, you go for
an audition. And I said, do Ihave to do real military
training? I called it boot camp.Yeah.
That's right. So that's what Iknew.
Cpl Cousineau (08:20):
That's what people call it.
Cpl Fortier (08:20):
Like on in movies. Right? That was basically my
knowledge of the military wasmovies and stuff like that. So I
said, do you have to do a bootcamp? She said, oh, yeah.
But these people your age do it.So kind of blindly, at 43 years
old, I just threw myself inthere and did the basic military
training with a bunch of young,young guys. And it really didn't
(08:41):
fit the profile, Just to showthat some people join later.
Capt Orton (08:55):
So you're both in the reserves. You have jobs
outside of what you do in themilitary?
Cpl Cousineau (08:59):
That's right. I'm, for the most part, a
freelance musician, meaning Itake the work where I can get
it. I try and play as much andperform as much as possible, but
that's not the most steady ofincomes. So I teach primarily
private lessons. I currentlyhave approximately 70 private
students that I see on a weeklybasis.
(09:20):
So sometimes it's difficult toget, the practice hours in. So
that's why it's great on Tuesdaynights when I get to pull the
horn out and play with thefootguards.
Cpl Fortier (09:28):
Myself, I'm now retired from my main civilian
job. I was, for 30 years,elementary and high school
teacher. Being a musician in thereserve is now my job as a
retired teacher.
Capt Orton (09:42):
So doing prep for the Podcast, I kind of looked at
the number of different bandsfor the different elements, and
there's, like, 50 something armybands, and there's all sorts of
different flavors. You wannaspeak to the different bands and
how they kinda work?
Cpl Cousineau (09:58):
Well, we're both members of the governor
general's foot guard band. Thisis a reserve band, one of the 50
or so army bands. So we paradeonce a week on Tuesday nights.
So it's a part time thing, butthere are also reg force bands.
There are 6 reg force bandsacross the country in Halifax,
Quebec, Ottawa, Winnipeg,Edmonton, and Victoria.
(10:20):
And this would be a full timepossibility of employment for
musicians. It's a little bitdifferent than what we do, but
that's an option that'savailable to us if we wanted to
be employed full time in themilitary.
Cpl Fortier (10:32):
And several of us, myself included, we sometimes do
part time contracts with regularforce bands. If there's
maternity leaves or sick leaveand they need someone to play
for 2 months, like in the pastyear, I did 4 contracts with the
Regular Force Band in Ottawa. Sothere's a lot of combinations
possible, but definitely morereserve bands because there are
(10:56):
bans in the differentcommunities and all the
different provinces andterritories as the regular force
bans, there are only 6 bans inthe whole country.
Capt Orton (11:04):
Yeah. Also, there's just a lot more reserve units in
general. Look at infantry,there's like nine Regular Force
infantry units, and then there'ssomething like 40 some odd or
even more Reserve infantry unitsand so they have a lot of bands
attached for that. Another thingI learned is that Piper is its
own trade and that's a wholeother thing.
Cpl Cousineau (11:24):
That's right. Highland regiments which have,
pipes and drums band rather thanyour typical marching bands.
Capt Orton (11:29):
I feel like we're way too late in the podcast for
me to ask this question, butwhat do you play?
Cpl Cousineau (11:34):
That is a good question. I'm a saxophone
player, but I also double onpiano. So I play on the jazz
combo on keys as well.
Cpl Fortier (11:41):
And I am a flute player. I play flute and
piccolo. So on parade, thelittle piccolo, and the rest of
the time, flute or piccolo.
Capt Orton (11:49):
What's a day to day musician experience like?
Cpl Cousineau (11:53):
Most of our Tuesday night rehearsals involve
getting ready for the nextengagement. So most of our time
will be spent rehearsing,whether that's a marching band
gig. So we'll be out on theparade square practicing,
playing, and marching, or a sitdown concert where we'll just
practice repertoire in the bandroom or a small ensemble gig,
which our band does fairlyoften. We've got saxophone
(12:16):
quartet, brass quintet, jazzcombo, a Celtic band. So for
certain engagements, they'llrequest 1 ensemble or another.
Capt Orton (12:25):
What are the different functions of those
bands? What events do theysupport?
Cpl Cousineau (12:28):
Well, really, it comes down to the venue and the
size of the engagement. We won'tsend our entire concert band to
play for a dinner of, say, adozen officers. It just doesn't
make sense. Typically, that'llbe held in a small room and
probably wouldn't have enoughspace for the entire band. So
depending on the venue,depending on the event,
sometimes it's just more fittingto send a smaller ensemble.
(12:51):
And the the music and theambiance that your jazz combo
will offer sometimes is a littlebit more fitting to that event.
So usually, the different eventswill request certain ensembles
based on on the venue, based onwhat they're going for.
Obviously, if it's outdoors,we'll be marching in the
streets. If it's a smallerfunction, we could send a flute
(13:12):
quartet or we could send asmaller group of musicians.
Capt Orton (13:15):
We've organized events before and they're, like,
you know, we want the full bandin there and it's in the drill
hall, for example, which is arelatively enclosed space. And
sometimes people don't fullyappreciate the amount of power
that that a full band has in anenclosed space. You know, it's
one of those challenges againwhere planning events, it's
(13:36):
important to consult yoursubject matter experts on that
and say, yes. We want a 30 pieceband inside this building to do
this thing. And they're, like,nobody will hear anything other
than the band during that.
Cpl Cousineau (13:47):
That's definitely happened a bunch of times in the
entire evening. We have peoplecoming over and saying, play
quieter. Play quieter. Playquieter. And as a 30 piece band,
sometimes that's just notdoable.
Capt Orton (13:56):
That's right. Trombones make trombone noises.
Cpl Cousineau (13:59):
That's right.
Capt Orton (14:00):
They're loud, that's how it
goes. And tell us a little bitabout the composition of the
band. Like, what does that looklike? How many of what?
How does it differ from asymphony or an orchestra or
whatever?
Cpl Cousineau (14:11):
Well, the band won't go out and actively look
for instruments that they mightbe missing. We're kind of at the
mercy of who might be applyingto join our band. But we are
fortunate right now to have apretty well balanced band,
meaning that we have enough ofall the instruments in the
different sections. So thatincludes flutes, clarinets,
saxophones, French horns, brassinstruments like trumpets,
(14:32):
trombones, tubas, andpercussionists, of course. We're
approximately 40 musicians.
Cpl Fortier (14:39):
About 40.
Cpl Cousineau (14:40):
Something like that. So there aren't too many
spots available with our ourband, but, we're well balanced,
and that offers us thepossibility to form these
smaller ensembles since we'vegot all the instruments covered.
Capt Orton (14:53):
So one thing we haven't discussed yet is the
role of ranks within the bandstructure because it seems maybe
a little bit counterintuitivethat the military structure that
applies to the chain of commandand execution of tasks, maybe
that not obviously fit into aband structure maybe. Can you
speak a little bit to what thatmeans and how it works?
Cpl Fortier (15:13):
Yes. So we still have this structure inside the
band, but we have also aparallel structure by a system
of musical section leaders, andthe music section leader is not
necessarily the highest rank. Soif you have a group of clarinet
players, but the strongestplayer is not the highest rank
(15:34):
in the military. Well, thatperson might be the head of the
clarinet section, and then we'llhave music leadership
responsibilities. And the personwho has a higher military rank
inside will have to follow that.
So we have 2 parallel systems.Sometimes it can be a little bit
of an issue, but usually not,because they're not supposed to
(15:55):
use their military rank whenwe're in a music format. And
usually it's the director ofmusic and the everyone in the
top leadership positions of theband who decide who will be the
different music section leaders.
Capt Orton (16:10):
I think that translates well though because,
like, let's say within a platoonor within a section of I'll
speak to infantry because that'swhat I know, is the highest
ranking person is maybe not thebest shot. There may be Exactly.
Not not the best navigators. Andso there's selection of team in
terms of skill and ability, andthen you have the rank
(16:32):
structure, which generallyspeaking is more enabling in
terms of personnel management,making maybe tactical and
strategic decisions. So basedoff of what you're saying, seems
like it's pretty much the samething within the band structure
is.
The chain of command is more ofa decision making structure, and
then the skill levels kind ofdictate how you're going to
(16:53):
execute a task, in this case, domusic.
Cpl Fortier (16:55):
But I think in terms of band structure, it's a
stronger firm structure ofleadership positions than I
think what you're referring to.I think you're still falling in
the regular military structureas us. It's all the time that if
you're the music section leader,you have this responsibility
always, the whole time you'redoing music all the time.
Cpl Cousineau (17:17):
Yeah. It's kind of a hybrid in that sense. We
have our musical sectionleaders, but we also have the
more traditional rank structure.We have the one officer who's
directing. Our band sergeantmajor will be a warrant.
And depending on the year, theband will be divided usually
into 2. We'll have a sergeant incharge of our 2 groups, and
(17:37):
those groups are divided intosections which are led by a
master corporal. But it is kindof a hybrid because that would
be for the more administrativeside. Whereas for the musical
side, we've got the differentleaders which don't go by the
rank system necessarily.
Capt Orton (17:53):
I feel like one of the things that you haven't
talked about, which is probablythe most impressive part is a
lot of musicians have thecomfort of sitting in a chair
and just playing and havingaccess to all of their stuff.
But marching band is a wholeother level.
Cpl Cousineau (18:09):
I think that was probably the most challenging
thing. As my colleaguementioned, we show up for the
most part in the militarytrained. We're usually
university students, so we'realready playing at a fairly high
level. But most people havenever marched and played at the
same time. I joined to play witha ceremonial guard band, which
is a marching band.
(18:29):
So I had a very intensive drillperiod where I had to learn or
essentially relearn everythingthat I thought I knew on the
saxophone. On the move. Whichwas so easy to do sitting down,
but all of a sudden when you'remarching. And not only marching,
but taking mace signals from thedrum major that's ahead of the
band, but you're alsomaintaining your dressing. So
(18:49):
lining up with the person infront of you, also to the left
and to the right, you'remultitasking like you wouldn't
believe.
Cpl Fortier (18:56):
Yeah. If I can add something to this, it makes me
smile. So I was a trainedmusician until 43 years old, but
I had never marched, I had neverbeen in a parade watching what's
left, right, in front, behind,doing little choreographies and
stuff. So it always stayed myweaker side, I would say. And
even at the last Remembrance Dayparade, I was again thanking one
(19:18):
of my flute player colleagues.
I said, I don't know what Iwould have been doing these last
15, 16 years without you aroundtelling me, Helene, go here.
Helene, watch this. So I neverreally messed up in a parade,
but thank God I had goodcolleagues around me. So just to
show that it's a whole differentsets of skills that civilian
musicians don't practice unlessyou're in the military.
Cpl Cousineau (19:40):
When you're learning to march and play, one
of the things you're thinkingprobably the least about is the
music itself.
Capt Orton: Dont crash into people! Well I think we'll make it easy on you but if ther is any (19:52):
undefined
format to be able to demonstratewhat somebody does for the
Podcast, this is definitely it.So I know you guys brought your
instruments in. Let's do somemusic then. Sounds good?
Cpl Fortier (20:02):
Sure.
Capt Orton (20:02):
Alright.
Cpl Cousineau: [MUSICAL INTERLUDE] (20:03):
undefined
Capt Orton (20:45):
That was great. Thank you. Not every day that
the saxophone and the piccolo,that's it. So I don't think
Cpl Cousineau (20:51):
we've ever played just the baritone saxophone and
the piccolo.
Cpl Fortier (20:54):
Good idea. We should
Cpl Cousineau (20:55):
take this on the road?
Capt Orton (20:56):
Make it a thing! .
Cpl Cousineau (20:58):
I think it's important as a musician when
you're deciding what you'regonna play for an event to make
sure that you play some musicthat people will recognize. You
could play fantastically well,but if people don't know what
you're playing, it won'tresonate the same way with them.
So as soon as you play somethingthat, they recognize, all of a
sudden, oh, you're great. Sohopefully, you recognize that
piece there. It's called ColonelBogey.
Capt Orton (21:18):
I didn't actually know the official name of that.
Cpl Fortier (21:20):
And we have also amended of educating the public
as well. So it's kind of acombination, I would say,
between things you can recognizelike movie themes or marches
that they've heard before, butalso play other music a bit more
serious or things that they'venever heard before before and
get them to, broaden theirmusic, knowledge and stuff?
Cpl Cousineau (21:42):
It's important for us to play, to cater to the
crowd. So when we play some ofthese old wartime tunes and
you've got these veterans, youcould see sometimes the tears
forming up in their eyes. You'replaying these old war tunes that
they they would sing togetherthat got them through some tough
times. And the saxophonequartet, for example, has a more
modern selection such asBohemian Rhapsody or the Pink
(22:06):
Panther. And I think it's gonnabe important moving forward that
we consider the music of thetime, and we make sure that
we're covering some of this infuture engagements.
Capt Orton (22:16):
Yeah. I would imagine it's pretty tricky to
strike the balance too. Iremember, I think it was during
one of the Fortissimo years. Youguys had Game of Thrones going.
That was a lot of fun.
You know, it catches the crowd.But then also on the other hand
is during something likeCeremonial Guard when people are
marching up Elgin Street inOttawa, and you have those,
like, really old school 1930-40swar marches, and you're like,
(22:40):
woo, dramatic. And maintainingthat balance of keeping the cool
old war tunes that kind ofreally tie you back to those
before times. But also playingthe fun, you know, let's say,
popular music of the moment isalso gratifying in its own way.
Cpl Cousineau (22:56):
Absolutely. The music that we played on
Parliament Hill this past summerwith Canada on the March
featured some modern selectionssuch as a medley of the music of
Star Wars, which always Yeah.That always hits. Always a hit.
But we also made sure to playsome of the pieces that were
originally composed for militarybands.
So stuff that was composedeither at the end of 19th
(23:19):
century or the turn of 20thcentury. And these pieces sound
fantastic military music thatwe've been playing for over a
100 years, as well as a moremodern selection.
Capt Orton (23:38):
Hey! Well, speaking of 100 year old tunes, I think
we're gonna play us out to oneof those, just now. So thanks
again for coming in!
Thanks to Corporals HélèneFortier and Michel Cousineau for
being on the show.
Cpl Cousineau (23:50):
It was our pleasure. Thanks so much for
having us.
Cpl Fortier (23:52):
Yes. Thank you so much.
Capt Orton (23:53):
And now the Governor General's Foot Guards band is
going to send us off with theirregimental slow march: Figaro.
Hi. I'm Captain Adam Orton with the Canadian Army
Podcast. Go to any majormilitary event and you'll see
them there (00:18):
musicians. The military has a long standing
history of epic bands to carrytroops into battle, add flavour
to events whether they're solemnor joyful, and provide
entertainment in the communitieswhere soldiers live Here talking
to us about military musiciansare Corporal Hélène Fortier...
Cpl Fortier (00:34):
That's me!
Capt Orton (00:37):
...and Corporal Michel Cousineau..
Cpl Cousineau (00:38):
Thanks for having us!
Capt Orton (00:39):
...who are part of the band of the Governor
General's Foot Guards.
Okay. So here's a thing that alot of people might not know is
musicians are their own tradewithin the Army. So it's
definitely a thing that we do.The military's job as a whole is
to kinda defend Canada anddestroy our enemies and such.
(00:59):
Why does the military needmusicians?
Cpl Fortier (01:02):
I guess when you first look at it, it's a valid
question. Like, what do webring? Because what we bring to
the military might not be asobvious. Yes, we're not the ones
that will go at the front anddefend against the enemy. We're
kind of in in the back seathere, but we provide a lot of
indirect value to support ourbrothers and sisters in the
(01:25):
military.
On the psychological side of it,whenever they have funerals,
whenever they lose brothers andsisters in arms, were there for
those ceremonies that are soimportant. Imagine having a
remembrance day not having atrumpet player playing the last
post. They need to grievesometimes or they need to
(01:46):
celebrate and we're there forthat, we're there for their
party time and they need todecompress because the job of
the soldiers is so intensesometimes. And we're not the
only ones who have career in theback seat, you know. The office
people, the medical people,sometimes they're not actively
the soldier with the rifle atthe front, but there's so many
(02:07):
career opportunities in themilitary, and they're not always
super related to what weperceive as the job of a
soldier.
We are being thanked regularlyby all levels of ranks in the
military because we bringsomething. But, yes, it doesn't
doesn't look that obvious. Soyour question is very valid.
Capt Orton (02:28):
You know, I really like that answer too because
there is definitely a value inemphasizing a joyful time, makes
that time better. It adds to thevalue of that decompression
experience. Or like you said, wehave to go through that grieving
process or, you know, have thatdecompression. And I think also
on the other side of the house,some people might make the
argument, oh, well, why not justget civilian musicians? But
(02:49):
it's, like, having somebody whogets it, and it's integrated
into that whole life, that wholesystem.
They understand kind of whatyou're going through, what the
military is, how it allfunctions, and how it all comes
together. Having somebody whounderstands that, being a part
of it, it's it's your teamthat's helping you out and and
sharing that moment with you. SoI think you hit the nail on the
head. Like, that's a reallyvalue add that maybe people
(03:11):
don't spend a lot of timeconsidering.
Cpl Cousineau (03:13):
Well, the military has a long history of,
music within the regiments goingall the way back to even during
wartime, how music really bringspeople together, and you'd have
your troops singing variouswartime tunes. Every unit has
regimental marches, and, weperform those when we play for
various functions, but, messdinners, for example. And, when
(03:34):
we play a regimental march, themembers from that unit will
usually stand up. Some of themare so proud to hear their
march. They'll get up on theirchair, or I've seen them get up
on the table.
Right. Some people will gladlysing along. So not only do we
provide ambiance for the dinneritself, but we, we get to
recognize those regimentalmarches afterwards. We often
(03:57):
parade in public, and, we arethe face of the military in the
public eye. We provide aconnection to, the public
because they don't have a chanceto see our troops in training or
our troops in combat, but theyget to see troops on parade in
ceremonial dress and, providesthat much needed link.
So I think, we we wear manyhats, both, literally and
(04:20):
figuratively.
Cpl Fortier (04:22):
And, we also do concerts for the general public,
we do military functions, ordiplomats events, like we do
music at their dinners or theirmeetings and cocktails and stuff
like that. We're part of, a lotof parades inside military
(04:43):
events like changing of commandsand in the different units. We
bring, marches and we're part ofthe official ceremonies. Oh, we
have so many aspects that we area part of.
Capt Orton (04:56):
And then I think the other part is there's a lot of
non musical duties thatmusicians do too. You wanna talk
about that?
Cpl Cousineau (05:03):
Well, most of our duties are musical in nature, so
we do need to maintain a basiclevel of training. So we do need
to maintain our personal weaponstraining. There's also the force
test that we need to completeevery year to make sure that
we're maintaining a level offitness.
Cpl Fortier (05:20):
And that makes me think what you just said that
musicians are, in general, veryfit. They're not less fit than
the others. So we can alsoparticipate at, different
missions inside Canada forflooding and for help during the
pandemic. So there are differenttasks that the military does for
(05:43):
the country that musicians cando. A lot of us have done some
clerk jobs and sometimes, we wecan still be deployed in
anywhere in the world doingclerk work.
So sometimes it's not only themusic, we also do other jobs in
the military.
Capt Orton (06:00):
So how does somebody become a musician in the Forces?
How do how does it all getstarted?
Cpl Cousineau (06:06):
Well, in my experience, I had a couple
friends that joined to play withthe Ceremonial Guard on
Parliament Hill, And they had ablast and told me that I needed
to join and do the same. Iwasn't really aware of the
opportunities available tomusicians in the military until
my colleagues explained to metheir experience. So most
(06:27):
musicians that, are part of theGovernor General's Foot Guards
are students in university andthey'll apply through their
local recruiting center,complete their BMQ, basic
military qualifications, andthen join their local regiment,
start playing with the band.
Capt Orton (06:44):
How'd you get your start?
Cpl Fortier (06:45):
Oh, my start was very different. I could have
been starting back in universitywhen I was in Quebec City, but
nobody was doing any recruitingin my university back then, and
I had no friends doing it, nofamily in the military. So I did
really, like, jobs at minimumsalary that were not necessarily
(07:06):
rewarding where I could havebeen doing that. First of all,
the musicians in the militaryare, for almost the majority,
already trained musician. Themilitary, they give us some
training, but we arrive by musicaudition.
So we're usually trained ahead.We're usually, we have music
degrees, so, which I had. Soanyway, fast forward, my
(07:26):
twenties, my thirties, moved toOttawa, became a teacher, a mom,
still playing a bit of music onthe civilian side. And only in
my forties, I was playing in acivilian band, and the teacher
from my school board, who's inthe military, approached me. And
she said, why don't you join thegovernor general, Foote guards?
And I said, what is this? I hadlived in Ottawa for years and
(07:47):
didn't even know it existed. Iknew ceremonial guard. I was
bringing my daughter to theparades every summer and thought
with a bit of, oh, I should havebeen doing that when I was a
student and kind of, oh, Ipassed the moment and I'm too
old now. So fast forward, I wasin my forties and this colleague
said, why don't you join thefootguards?
(08:09):
And I said, what do I need todo? And she said, oh, you go for
an audition. And I said, do Ihave to do real military
training? I called it boot camp.Yeah.
That's right. So that's what Iknew.
Cpl Cousineau (08:20):
That's what people call it.
Cpl Fortier (08:20):
Like on in movies. Right? That was basically my
knowledge of the military wasmovies and stuff like that. So I
said, do you have to do a bootcamp? She said, oh, yeah.
But these people your age do it.So kind of blindly, at 43 years
old, I just threw myself inthere and did the basic military
training with a bunch of young,young guys. And it really didn't
(08:41):
fit the profile, Just to showthat some people join later.
Capt Orton (08:55):
So you're both in the reserves. You have jobs
outside of what you do in themilitary?
Cpl Cousineau (08:59):
That's right. I'm, for the most part, a
freelance musician, meaning Itake the work where I can get
it. I try and play as much andperform as much as possible, but
that's not the most steady ofincomes. So I teach primarily
private lessons. I currentlyhave approximately 70 private
students that I see on a weeklybasis.
(09:20):
So sometimes it's difficult toget, the practice hours in. So
that's why it's great on Tuesdaynights when I get to pull the
horn out and play with thefootguards.
Cpl Fortier (09:28):
Myself, I'm now retired from my main civilian
job. I was, for 30 years,elementary and high school
teacher. Being a musician in thereserve is now my job as a
retired teacher.
Capt Orton (09:42):
So doing prep for the Podcast, I kind of looked at
the number of different bandsfor the different elements, and
there's, like, 50 something armybands, and there's all sorts of
different flavors. You wannaspeak to the different bands and
how they kinda work?
Cpl Cousineau (09:58):
Well, we're both members of the governor
general's foot guard band. Thisis a reserve band, one of the 50
or so army bands. So we paradeonce a week on Tuesday nights.
So it's a part time thing, butthere are also reg force bands.
There are 6 reg force bandsacross the country in Halifax,
Quebec, Ottawa, Winnipeg,Edmonton, and Victoria.
(10:20):
And this would be a full timepossibility of employment for
musicians. It's a little bitdifferent than what we do, but
that's an option that'savailable to us if we wanted to
be employed full time in themilitary.
Cpl Fortier (10:32):
And several of us, myself included, we sometimes do
part time contracts with regularforce bands. If there's
maternity leaves or sick leaveand they need someone to play
for 2 months, like in the pastyear, I did 4 contracts with the
Regular Force Band in Ottawa. Sothere's a lot of combinations
possible, but definitely morereserve bands because there are
(10:56):
bans in the differentcommunities and all the
different provinces andterritories as the regular force
bans, there are only 6 bans inthe whole country.
Capt Orton (11:04):
Yeah. Also, there's just a lot more reserve units in
general. Look at infantry,there's like nine Regular Force
infantry units, and then there'ssomething like 40 some odd or
even more Reserve infantry unitsand so they have a lot of bands
attached for that. Another thingI learned is that Piper is its
own trade and that's a wholeother thing.
Cpl Cousineau (11:24):
That's right. Highland regiments which have,
pipes and drums band rather thanyour typical marching bands.
Capt Orton (11:29):
I feel like we're way too late in the podcast for
me to ask this question, butwhat do you play?
Cpl Cousineau (11:34):
That is a good question. I'm a saxophone
player, but I also double onpiano. So I play on the jazz
combo on keys as well.
Cpl Fortier (11:41):
And I am a flute player. I play flute and
piccolo. So on parade, thelittle piccolo, and the rest of
the time, flute or piccolo.
Capt Orton (11:49):
What's a day to day musician experience like?
Cpl Cousineau (11:53):
Most of our Tuesday night rehearsals involve
getting ready for the nextengagement. So most of our time
will be spent rehearsing,whether that's a marching band
gig. So we'll be out on theparade square practicing,
playing, and marching, or a sitdown concert where we'll just
practice repertoire in the bandroom or a small ensemble gig,
which our band does fairlyoften. We've got saxophone
(12:16):
quartet, brass quintet, jazzcombo, a Celtic band. So for
certain engagements, they'llrequest 1 ensemble or another.
Capt Orton (12:25):
What are the different functions of those
bands? What events do theysupport?
Cpl Cousineau (12:28):
Well, really, it comes down to the venue and the
size of the engagement. We won'tsend our entire concert band to
play for a dinner of, say, adozen officers. It just doesn't
make sense. Typically, that'llbe held in a small room and
probably wouldn't have enoughspace for the entire band. So
depending on the venue,depending on the event,
sometimes it's just more fittingto send a smaller ensemble.
(12:51):
And the the music and theambiance that your jazz combo
will offer sometimes is a littlebit more fitting to that event.
So usually, the different eventswill request certain ensembles
based on on the venue, based onwhat they're going for.
Obviously, if it's outdoors,we'll be marching in the
streets. If it's a smallerfunction, we could send a flute
(13:12):
quartet or we could send asmaller group of musicians.
Capt Orton (13:15):
We've organized events before and they're, like,
you know, we want the full bandin there and it's in the drill
hall, for example, which is arelatively enclosed space. And
sometimes people don't fullyappreciate the amount of power
that that a full band has in anenclosed space. You know, it's
one of those challenges againwhere planning events, it's
(13:36):
important to consult yoursubject matter experts on that
and say, yes. We want a 30 pieceband inside this building to do
this thing. And they're, like,nobody will hear anything other
than the band during that.
Cpl Cousineau (13:47):
That's definitely happened a bunch of times in the
entire evening. We have peoplecoming over and saying, play
quieter. Play quieter. Playquieter. And as a 30 piece band,
sometimes that's just notdoable.
Capt Orton (13:56):
That's right. Trombones make trombone noises.
Cpl Cousineau (13:59):
That's right.
Capt Orton (14:00):
They're loud, that's how it
goes. And tell us a little bitabout the composition of the
band. Like, what does that looklike? How many of what?
How does it differ from asymphony or an orchestra or
whatever?
Cpl Cousineau (14:11):
Well, the band won't go out and actively look
for instruments that they mightbe missing. We're kind of at the
mercy of who might be applyingto join our band. But we are
fortunate right now to have apretty well balanced band,
meaning that we have enough ofall the instruments in the
different sections. So thatincludes flutes, clarinets,
saxophones, French horns, brassinstruments like trumpets,
(14:32):
trombones, tubas, andpercussionists, of course. We're
approximately 40 musicians.
Cpl Fortier (14:39):
About 40.
Cpl Cousineau (14:40):
Something like that. So there aren't too many
spots available with our ourband, but, we're well balanced,
and that offers us thepossibility to form these
smaller ensembles since we'vegot all the instruments covered.
Capt Orton (14:53):
So one thing we haven't discussed yet is the
role of ranks within the bandstructure because it seems maybe
a little bit counterintuitivethat the military structure that
applies to the chain of commandand execution of tasks, maybe
that not obviously fit into aband structure maybe. Can you
speak a little bit to what thatmeans and how it works?
Cpl Fortier (15:13):
Yes. So we still have this structure inside the
band, but we have also aparallel structure by a system
of musical section leaders, andthe music section leader is not
necessarily the highest rank. Soif you have a group of clarinet
players, but the strongestplayer is not the highest rank
(15:34):
in the military. Well, thatperson might be the head of the
clarinet section, and then we'llhave music leadership
responsibilities. And the personwho has a higher military rank
inside will have to follow that.
So we have 2 parallel systems.Sometimes it can be a little bit
of an issue, but usually not,because they're not supposed to
(15:55):
use their military rank whenwe're in a music format. And
usually it's the director ofmusic and the everyone in the
top leadership positions of theband who decide who will be the
different music section leaders.
Capt Orton (16:10):
I think that translates well though because,
like, let's say within a platoonor within a section of I'll
speak to infantry because that'swhat I know, is the highest
ranking person is maybe not thebest shot. There may be Exactly.
Not not the best navigators. Andso there's selection of team in
terms of skill and ability, andthen you have the rank
(16:32):
structure, which generallyspeaking is more enabling in
terms of personnel management,making maybe tactical and
strategic decisions. So basedoff of what you're saying, seems
like it's pretty much the samething within the band structure
is.
The chain of command is more ofa decision making structure, and
then the skill levels kind ofdictate how you're going to
(16:53):
execute a task, in this case, domusic.
Cpl Fortier (16:55):
But I think in terms of band structure, it's a
stronger firm structure ofleadership positions than I
think what you're referring to.I think you're still falling in
the regular military structureas us. It's all the time that if
you're the music section leader,you have this responsibility
always, the whole time you'redoing music all the time.
Cpl Cousineau (17:17):
Yeah. It's kind of a hybrid in that sense. We
have our musical sectionleaders, but we also have the
more traditional rank structure.We have the one officer who's
directing. Our band sergeantmajor will be a warrant.
And depending on the year, theband will be divided usually
into 2. We'll have a sergeant incharge of our 2 groups, and
(17:37):
those groups are divided intosections which are led by a
master corporal. But it is kindof a hybrid because that would
be for the more administrativeside. Whereas for the musical
side, we've got the differentleaders which don't go by the
rank system necessarily.
Capt Orton (17:53):
I feel like one of the things that you haven't
talked about, which is probablythe most impressive part is a
lot of musicians have thecomfort of sitting in a chair
and just playing and havingaccess to all of their stuff.
But marching band is a wholeother level.
Cpl Cousineau (18:09):
I think that was probably the most challenging
thing. As my colleaguementioned, we show up for the
most part in the militarytrained. We're usually
university students, so we'realready playing at a fairly high
level. But most people havenever marched and played at the
same time. I joined to play witha ceremonial guard band, which
is a marching band.
(18:29):
So I had a very intensive drillperiod where I had to learn or
essentially relearn everythingthat I thought I knew on the
saxophone. On the move. Whichwas so easy to do sitting down,
but all of a sudden when you'remarching. And not only marching,
but taking mace signals from thedrum major that's ahead of the
band, but you're alsomaintaining your dressing. So
(18:49):
lining up with the person infront of you, also to the left
and to the right, you'remultitasking like you wouldn't
believe.
Cpl Fortier (18:56):
Yeah. If I can add something to this, it makes me
smile. So I was a trainedmusician until 43 years old, but
I had never marched, I had neverbeen in a parade watching what's
left, right, in front, behind,doing little choreographies and
stuff. So it always stayed myweaker side, I would say. And
even at the last Remembrance Dayparade, I was again thanking one
(19:18):
of my flute player colleagues.
I said, I don't know what Iwould have been doing these last
15, 16 years without you aroundtelling me, Helene, go here.
Helene, watch this. So I neverreally messed up in a parade,
but thank God I had goodcolleagues around me. So just to
show that it's a whole differentsets of skills that civilian
musicians don't practice unlessyou're in the military.
Cpl Cousineau (19:40):
When you're learning to march and play, one
of the things you're thinkingprobably the least about is the
music itself.
Capt Orton: Dont crash into people! Well I think we'll make it easy on you but if ther is any (19:52):
undefined
format to be able to demonstratewhat somebody does for the
Podcast, this is definitely it.So I know you guys brought your
instruments in. Let's do somemusic then. Sounds good?
Cpl Fortier (20:02):
Sure.
Capt Orton (20:02):
Alright.
Cpl Cousineau: [MUSICAL INTERLUDE] (20:03):
undefined
Capt Orton (20:45):
That was great. Thank you. Not every day that
the saxophone and the piccolo,that's it. So I don't think
Cpl Cousineau (20:51):
we've ever played just the baritone saxophone and
the piccolo.
Cpl Fortier (20:54):
Good idea. We should
Cpl Cousineau (20:55):
take this on the road?
Capt Orton (20:56):
Make it a thing! .
Cpl Cousineau (20:58):
I think it's important as a musician when
you're deciding what you'regonna play for an event to make
sure that you play some musicthat people will recognize. You
could play fantastically well,but if people don't know what
you're playing, it won'tresonate the same way with them.
So as soon as you play somethingthat, they recognize, all of a
sudden, oh, you're great. Sohopefully, you recognize that
piece there. It's called ColonelBogey.
Capt Orton (21:18):
I didn't actually know the official name of that.
Cpl Fortier (21:20):
And we have also amended of educating the public
as well. So it's kind of acombination, I would say,
between things you can recognizelike movie themes or marches
that they've heard before, butalso play other music a bit more
serious or things that they'venever heard before before and
get them to, broaden theirmusic, knowledge and stuff?
Cpl Cousineau (21:42):
It's important for us to play, to cater to the
crowd. So when we play some ofthese old wartime tunes and
you've got these veterans, youcould see sometimes the tears
forming up in their eyes. You'replaying these old war tunes that
they they would sing togetherthat got them through some tough
times. And the saxophonequartet, for example, has a more
modern selection such asBohemian Rhapsody or the Pink
(22:06):
Panther. And I think it's gonnabe important moving forward that
we consider the music of thetime, and we make sure that
we're covering some of this infuture engagements.
Capt Orton (22:16):
Yeah. I would imagine it's pretty tricky to
strike the balance too. Iremember, I think it was during
one of the Fortissimo years. Youguys had Game of Thrones going.
That was a lot of fun.
You know, it catches the crowd.But then also on the other hand
is during something likeCeremonial Guard when people are
marching up Elgin Street inOttawa, and you have those,
like, really old school 1930-40swar marches, and you're like,
(22:40):
woo, dramatic. And maintainingthat balance of keeping the cool
old war tunes that kind ofreally tie you back to those
before times. But also playingthe fun, you know, let's say,
popular music of the moment isalso gratifying in its own way.
Cpl Cousineau (22:56):
Absolutely. The music that we played on
Parliament Hill this past summerwith Canada on the March
featured some modern selectionssuch as a medley of the music of
Star Wars, which always Yeah.That always hits. Always a hit.
But we also made sure to playsome of the pieces that were
originally composed for militarybands.
So stuff that was composedeither at the end of 19th
(23:19):
century or the turn of 20thcentury. And these pieces sound
fantastic military music thatwe've been playing for over a
100 years, as well as a moremodern selection.
Capt Orton (23:38):
Hey! Well, speaking of 100 year old tunes, I think
we're gonna play us out to oneof those, just now. So thanks
again for coming in!
Thanks to Corporals HélèneFortier and Michel Cousineau for
being on the show.
Cpl Cousineau (23:50):
It was our pleasure. Thanks so much for
having us.
Cpl Fortier (23:52):
Yes. Thank you so much.
Capt Orton (23:53):
And now the Governor General's Foot Guards band is
going to send us off with theirregimental slow march: Figaro.
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