Lived Experiences Part 1

TN Voices CEO Rikki Harris and COO Will Voss are back, and this time they talk about how lived experience prepares many of those who work in the mental health field to help their clients and their families. They explore the contributions that years of experience, as well as fresh, new perspectives offer in the scope of everything TN Voices does. In the first half, Rikki talks with Kathy Rodgers, who has years of experience in treating families, about how her personal experience gives her an opportunity to bring great things to the table.

Episode Transcript

Rikki Harris (00:05):
and it is a podcast of Tennessee voices
about mental health, featuringstories of people who have
overcome mental healthchallenges, as well as those who
have helped people overcomemental health challenges. This
podcast is about authenticity.
And it's intended to give avoice to those who are
passionate about mental wellbeing. We hope that by sharing

(00:25):
stories, listeners understandmental health and just how
important it is in our day today lives, and they will help us
reduce stigma. We want you toknow that so many who have
struggled with mental health canand did overcome their
challenges. And if you arestruggling, you can too. I'm
your host, Ricky Harris, CEO,Tennessee voices. And with me as

(00:49):
my favorite co host, WilburRoss, CEO of Tennessee voices.
Welcome to our podcast. Let'sget candid.
Welcome to our candid podcast.
Ricky Harrison here with my cohost, will Vox. We have some

(01:13):
interviews today for for yourears, to hear from two of our
staff. And they're going to talka little bit about their
experiences at our organization.
One who has been here for a longtime, 13 years, and one who has

(01:39):
been here less than a year inher new role,

Unknown (01:44):
new

Rikki Harris (01:45):
titles. Okay.
Okay. So she was an intern. Andthen she worked for us a little
bit. And then she left and gother master's degree and came
back now she's fairly new in herrole as a therapist, but has
some experience with us. But asa young adult, and our our other
person Kathy is an older adult.
And so both of them are sharingtheir experiences, both in the

(02:08):
field but also as employees ofTennessee voices. So we'll make
sense of our comments once youhear their interviews, probably
a little more. But what's yourexperience working for Tennessee
voices? Well, you've been here?
Seven,

Unknown (02:24):
six, e six years? Yeah, six years in February. Um, it
has been a it's been a journey.
It has been a journey, a funjourney. I recently was just
telling someone in an interviewthat when I first came to
Tennessee voices, I was in thelast year of the grant that I

(02:45):
hopped on. That's right. That'sright. Yeah, February of 2015.
And that was that grant wasending in September. That's
right. I forgot about that. Yes,yes. We were doing interviews,
you know, people say, Well, howis this splendid? How long is
the grant and I tell him, youknow, well, this is the time
period for this grant. I don'twant you to worry about that. I

(03:07):
know it can be scary anddifficult to do. But your goal
is to come in and do the bestjob that you have. And as we're
thinking of sustainability andconstantly writing grants, we're
going to try to figure out howdo we sustain our best employees
the best way we can. Sometimesit works out right the way we
wanted to. And other times wegot to figure different
strategies out. But it was ajourney coming in, I could

(03:30):
potentially only have a job forwas it seven months. And now I'm
here almost seven years later.
It's been fun. I've learned alot and just overcoming
different challenges, meetingdifferent challenges and
learning a lot of differentthings. It's been fun. It's been
a fun journey.

Rikki Harris (03:51):
Yeah, I was thinking about your, your
journey through multiple rolesand agencies from you know,
direct services, to management,to Director, program manager,
director and then Chief, sosenior leadership. Obviously,
those are they probably bringtheir own different cultures

(04:14):
within each role. What what doesthat what does that done to you
in terms of your growth anddevelopment, how the culture of
each role changed you?

Unknown (04:27):
Oh, yes. When I say it humbled me. You know, in the
midst of it, going from directservice, doing the in home work
to moving to program managementand directorship. In the midst
of that I was working on mymaster's. So still on the side,
providing therapy, seeing thosefamilies, one on one, you know,

(04:49):
it always brought you back downto reality, like as you're
focusing on the manageriallevel, and looking at how all
these different processes andstrategies should work and focus
on programming. outcomes, thisis a great way to do it. But
working with people directlyhelps you understand how to get
beginning. And I love it becauseit's helped my help helps me get

(05:13):
a have a better perspective onhow to manage people and how to
make them leaders leading otherleaders at something that you
said, and it sticks with me, youknow, real leaders create other
leaders. And being able to dothat from now senior leadership
level, it's exciting. In havingthat firsthand direct service

(05:34):
experience early on, it alwayscomes back to the core of how I
lead, always remembering thosepeople that we're providing
services to.

Rikki Harris (05:42):
Yeah, I remember.
So I've been here 10 years, I'vejust celebrated my 10 year
anniversary. Yay. And I was herebefore I was the CEO, I was
development director and workedfor someone else who was the
CEO. And quickly as Itransitioned, I learned that I
needed to become a student ofculture change, like culture,

(06:07):
shift culture, change, how towhether I liked it or not, or
wanted it or not, culture wasgoing to change after a leader
who had been here almost 20years. Just curious, no matter
what it was, if I would havecome in and try to keep
everything status quo, therestill would have been a shift.

(06:28):
Because we are, I was new, I wasa new CEO, I was newer to the
agency. And she obviously hadbeen here 20 years, and had a
lot of years in the field. So itwas, it was different
experiences, it was differentideas, it was different things.
But I became a student ofculture and started studying and
read a book I really likedcalled leader shift. And it, it

(06:50):
helped me a lot to understandhow to strategize culture
change, because I thought atfirst I would just come in and
implement culture change, here'swhat I want, here's what we
should be, here's who we are.
But we weren't that until we allagreed that we were that. And so

(07:15):
I studied and learned a lotabout the transitional change in
leadership and how that affectsculture. So a little bit of that
happened to then with you as youtransition to this new chief
role. I mean, I would say evenyour leadership as Director of
Operations, and especially nowas chief, taking on some things

(07:37):
that help shift our culture, andsome of it is just the way that
you see staff support, the wayyou like to keep people informed
the way you like to communicatewith people, it creates culture.

Unknown (07:56):
It's something I tell a lot of my my staff and former
supervisors now is that I neverforget what it's like to be a
program manager, the directservice staff, I never forget
what it's like to provide thosedirect services. It's so
different, because I'm blessedto be able to say, I did those
direct services here atTennessee voices, the same grant

(08:16):
that we still have today was thesame grant that I was scared,
yeah, I wasn't gonna be able tobe here any longer because it
was his last year of funding atthat. So he really understanding
you know, that true system ofcare what it looks like, and how
it's infused in all of ourprograms. I've kept that from
directs Arizona up to see Oh,

Rikki Harris (08:37):
yeah. So I will confess that one of the hard
parts for me and learning how tocreate the culture that we now
have, which I think we canprobably spend some time
describing in a minute. But as Ilearned that I had a hard time
marrying high expectations withlots of grace and support. And

(09:03):
that, for me was difficultbecause I was very, an am very
type A, I'm very driven. I'mvery visionary. I'm a person who
sets a goal when we reach it. Idon't have time to celebrate,
because it's time to set thenext goal. Like Whoo, yay. Okay,
cool. We got that one. But Ihave this one, this one and this

(09:24):
one next, I'm always lookingahead, which I think is really
important. But you also have tohave the support and the
communication and the grace forall the people doing the work.
And so I was trying to figureout, how do I take my drive and
hold people accountable and alsocreate this strong quality in

(09:46):
the work that we do, but alsohold these people in my very
skinny arms to make sure thatthey feel like they can trust us
and that we have They're backand that we are here for them
and that we want them tosucceed. It took a minute to
figure out how to do both. Thatmakes sense.

Unknown (10:08):
Yes, yes. It makes sense. It's hard to do. But I'll
tell you this. You got it. Yougot to down pack? Yeah, tick

Rikki Harris (10:14):
a tick a minute, but I think we figured it out,
then one of the biggest thingsis getting the right people on
the bus. And that was justsimply going back to Mission.
Are we all here with commongoals and trust? Can we all get
around the same mission check?
Are we all committed to that?
Yes. Do we trust each other. Andthat was the key component, I

(10:38):
had to spend some years there asthe new CEO, just building
trust, really focused on I amwho I say that I am. And I'm
doing what I say that I'm doing.
And really making sure thatpeople understood they could
trust me. And then when we hadthose two things, which took
some time to develop, then theywere like, Okay, we're behind
her. What, let's go. What are wedoing? We're we're on board. But

(11:02):
that culture, how would youdescribe it? I've had a lot of
thoughts about this lately. ButI'd love to hear how you
describe our current culture?

Unknown (11:16):
Yeah. I truly, truly, truly, and I know a lot of
places say, but I would trulysay We are like a family. And
when I say that, I don't meanthat a dysfunctional family. I
mean, one where, you know, thereare moments where we may not
agree. But we've all got thatsame in same common core. And

(11:39):
that is, how do we help others?
And how do we start here athome? You know, I joke often and
say, it always starts at home,and I'm talking to staff and,
you know, everyone laughs butthey they get it and they relate
to it. Yeah, it actually is howwe treat each other at the
office, you know, before we goout, and we're smiling to
community partners, and we'relaughing and joking, and trying
to make sure we're helping youknow, these families and

(12:00):
children that we're workingwith, are we treating each other
the same way? You know, are westarting internally helping one
another, we hire a lot of peoplewith lived experience. And
that's a lot that you have totake into account when you're
dealing with your own, you know,your own your own your own

(12:21):
journey, mental health recovery,or being a parent and caregiver
child with mental healthconcerns, some who've already
advocated with their childrenthrough high school in college,
and some are still doing itoutside of work while trying to
help another family. Our staffare supporting one another in
that. So yeah, we're like afamily. And we're constantly
growing, we realize that age isnothing but a number as you guys

(12:45):
are going to hear from some ofour youngest staff to some of
those who are up in tenure. Ageis nothing but a number no
matter how old you are. Everyoneis open to growing and learning.
That's the biggest thing. How dowe learn from one another
through all these differentexperiences that we have?

Rikki Harris (13:03):
Yeah, yeah, I do think that's a really cool
statement, because one of thethings that I had on my list
early on is that we would alwaystake a learning stance and our
approach to the work. And thatlearning stance would be either
I'm going to learn from thecommunity, what their needs are,
and then plan the work thatneeds to be done. And I'm going

(13:27):
to learn from the partners wherethe gaps are, and try to fill
those. And I'm going to learnfrom my staff, what their
expertise are, and how we canbuild on those to better serve
the community. And so I thinkthat was a big one for me is
number one, I was gonna take alearning stance and hire people

(13:47):
who knew more than me aboutthings I didn't know about
because I can't own all theinformation, or I can't know all
the answers for thisorganization to succeed. I need
the right people on board. Thatmakes sense to Yes, that

Unknown (14:05):
makes perfect sense. I mean, I remember you saying that
and you can think of our missionis being that collaborative
leader. Right. In order to leadyou you have to have followed
someone you had to have learnedfrom someone before. And while
you're we can be innovative andcreative and how we set forth
new standards and we moveforward. Some of what we're
doing is because we've learnedfrom one another, you know, in

(14:28):
order to create who we want tobe as an agency.

Rikki Harris (14:31):
Yeah. Yeah, I've studied a lot to about just
respecting and supporting whenyou talk about a family. I kind
of hold this philosophy aboutparenting and I don't mean to
say that we're parenting orstaff at all. But I hold this
philosophy about parenting thatinstead of creating fear between

(14:53):
yourself and your child in orderto get them to comply, that you
should create respect betweenyourself and yourself. so that
they respect you when you askthem to comply, and they do it.
And I feel the same wayphilosophically about leadership
that if I mutually respect mystaff, and they respect me,

(15:13):
right, so we have this mutualrespect, that there are going to
be times when we disagree on howto get to something. But if we
agree on what the end goal is,or we agree what the outcome
should be, then we can handlethose disagreements on how to
get there. I also have learned alot about love. And it's been
really hard for me to figure outhow to express it, because I

(15:37):
think there's somemisunderstanding, when you say
the word love, there's a lot ofmeanings to love, there's, I
mean, just even from mybackground, and training
biblically, there's multiplemeanings of love or types of
love. But I have a genuine lovefor people in that I don't wish
to hurt anyone. And I hold inhigh regard and value their

(16:00):
feelings, their needs and theirthoughts. And so how do I
express that love through myleadership, and that's just the
way we treat people.

Unknown (16:13):
See there, I mean, I, as you're saying that, you know,
I think about how the staff willbe like, Oh, my goodness, we
love y'all. And it's like,that's where they're coming
from. They're loving what we'redoing, and that we're presenting
ourselves as human, like, Hey,we're gonna make mistakes from
time to time. But our goal is tomake sure we're leading you guys
in best direction, because wesee that you're following, you

(16:36):
guys are leading your ownmanner. And we're gonna set the
path to make sure that we dowhat needs to be done.

Rikki Harris (16:43):
You know, that's a perfect, we have a guest, we
need to invite to this podcast.
And it's Becca Stevens, the CEOof this farms, she really talks
about leadership and love. Andobviously, the mission and
thistle Farms is kind of aroundsupporting and uplifting
treatment and success for womenin recovery. And we should

(17:05):
totally invite her. So to closea sale, I have a funny story,
kind of funny. It's serious toshare with you. I was having a
conversation with a staffmember. And she was saying like
how much she appreciated me andthen how much she appreciated

(17:26):
the leadership team. And she wasgoing through something hard,
and we had really kind of showedup for her. And I was like, you
know, I love all y'all, you justI just can't necessarily say
that. Because we're taught andmanagement, you know how, how
cautious to be held. Be careful,people may misinterpret things.

(17:49):
And so it's a it's a word wedon't throw around out of
caution, right. And I said, butI do I love all of y'all. And
she said to me, she said, weknow we? And I said you didn't?
And she said everybody knows.
Yeah. And I was like, that makesme feel so good. Like I'm

(18:13):
accomplishing at least to somelevel without explicitly stating
what we're putting out there.
But another guest we should havethat I think shows a lot of love
toward her staff is CommissionerWilliams. Yes, yes. So there's
an example of a leader who isnot afraid to express her
appreciation and love forothers, particularly those who

(18:36):
are working with her and openlyputting it out there and telling
you that's just the kind ofpeople I want to be around. I
don't know about you.

Unknown (18:47):
I'm right there with it.

Rikki Harris (18:49):
Obviously, there's times when that's hard, just
like with family, when you youlove someone, but you don't
appreciate what they did, whatthey said, or how they made you
feel. So we got to have avenuesfor those kinds of things.
Communication. Yeah. So I thinkit's gonna be a great couple of

(19:11):
interviews you guys are going tohear and I think you're going to
love it. Jasmine's preciousKathy, is she's got so much
experience in the biz. There'snobody like her. That distinct
accent you'll grow to love andhear in the next episode or
segment of this episode. Soy'all enjoy. Thank

Erika Lathon (19:31):
you. We'll be right back after this short
break. Tn voices is now hiringqualified applicants to build
positions all across the state.
You can be part of a growingteam that puts the mental health
of Tennesseans first and thrivein a compassionate work

(19:51):
environment. To apply to joinour team, log on to tn
voices.org/employee. And welcomeback.

Rikki Harris (20:14):
So I want to introduce to the podcast Cathy
Rogers. Kathy is a director atTennessee voices and has been
with us for how many yearsKathy?

Unknown (20:25):
Wills going on 13? Well gone

Rikki Harris (20:29):
13 longer than me.
Wow. Yeah. And you've been inthe field for a while. So today,
I think the point for thisepisode is to just hear from
someone who has been in thefield for a long time, but not
just someone from you, you whohave made such a difference in
the lives of so many people,both people you've led as a

(20:50):
leader and people that you'vetrained as a trainer. So I mean,
you've got a lot of stories toshare, we have a little bit of
time, so I'm gonna quit talking.
Tell me how you got in thefield. Oh,

Unknown (21:04):
I got the feel because that kid began more with DCS, a
lot of people begin theircareers there. I did not have my
masters at that time. I wasworking directly with families.
And I thought, this is way tooimportant. I need more

(21:25):
education. And I was picking upblown, how critical it was to
recognize the talents thatparents and families said, and
in navigating other systems.
People did not always appreciatethe sacrifice, the devotion, and

(21:46):
everything that parents do onbehalf of their children. Yeah,

Rikki Harris (21:55):
wow, your view of parents in doing this work has
always been something that Ihave appreciated. And that has
had an influence on me, becauseyou have always seen parents, no
matter what the concerns arewith a family, you have always
seen the parents as the catalystto the ultimate change in family

(22:18):
functioning. And, you know,addressing family struggles,
telling you why you hold parentsin such a hard position in terms
of helping families.

Unknown (22:32):
I hold them in such a high position, because for many
years, I have advocated forparents who didn't have a status
in the care of their chairman.
They had ideas. And if youlisten to them, rarely, rarely
listen, you thought they are soon track. Why can't we the

(22:53):
helping people really focus onwhat it is that they're doing.
They may be in crisis, they maylook on my boss what's going on
at the moment, because weusually meet them in crisis. But
their ideas for the most part,are very sound and on track with

(23:18):
their children. And I thought ifwe could collaborate, enjoying
our knowledge with the parentsknowledge, and be young, equal
status, that the children wouldbe so much better off. And so
that's why it's so credible tome.

Rikki Harris (23:40):
I love what you said, just be on equal status
with the parents equal. Exactly.
I think you and I both have seendynamics in the helping field,
where we, we, the delineatebetween the professional and the
parent, and assume theprofessional has more
information and knowledge abouthow to make changes that the

(24:04):
parent needs help with. But yousaid equal? What does that look
like when you when a parent isapproaching a professional for
help? And you as a professional,see yourself as an equal partner
with them? What's thedifference?

Unknown (24:24):
The difference is the way you engage the family in
that it's like a peer. Okay, Iunderstand where you're coming
from. And our agency reallysupports the peer approach and
that experience and what thatmeans to others. And you know,

(24:46):
that they have the ability tomake the decisions to reach the
success they want. And that'swhat an equal is that your ideas
are as good as my ideas. Andrarely parent, your ideas are

(25:07):
probably better than my ideas.
We need to really come together.

Rikki Harris (25:14):
So much agree with that. So tell me a little bit
about all the differentpositions you've held over the
years at Tennessee voicesbecause you've worn a number of
hats.

Unknown (25:25):
Oh my gosh, yes. Effort dinette program. Every program
that the agency has, I haveworked in I came into Tennessee
Boyce's as supervisor in thesystem of care. And from there,

(25:46):
I went over, I was over aprogram, I can't even remember
what my title was. But I was, Iwas over a program and then I
switched him was very differentfrom men, then I grew and was
over several programs. And so Iknow about outreach, what it

(26:07):
means to do, because I've beenover that program to really
provide services to families whowere desperate, and know about
trauma, and what it means toprovide services to families who
children may have experiencedtrauma, and know about training,

(26:30):
and what it takes to reallyengage people in that type of us
setting. So you really maximizetheir abilities to learn and be
involved. Advocacy is a majorpart of what I have had an
opportunity to do to reallyadvocate on behalf of families,

(26:54):
on behalf of children, and whatthat means in a child's success.
The rights they have then whatthey need to be successful,
gosh, everything we do get

Rikki Harris (27:11):
a lot, done a lot.
And I will say advocacy reallystands out to me, that's
something that I learned a lotfrom you about in just the way
that we see advocacy in ourorganization. Because we we
bridge a gap between beingadvocates and service providers,
which is a little bit unique,because there are a lot of

(27:34):
organizations that do one or theother. And we're we do both in
the way that we provide ourservices. So advocacy for us is
both on the individual levelwith families like you were
explaining, but also on thesystem level. And and you've
been a part of some of thatsystem level advocacy,
especially with things like thechild advocacy days event. Every

(27:57):
year, Tennessee voices has a hasa big place with that we always
attend in large numbers. We helpwith the event. But we visit
legislators. And we talked tothem about what we think is
important than our view. And Iwill I'll just take this
opportunity to say, the advocacypiece. And how you approached it

(28:19):
when you were over statewideFamily Support Network was
really when I first came in wasreally beneficial for me to see
how you how you manage that.

Unknown (28:35):
We tried to do it on a collaborative basis. If you want
someone that's going to go inand just really be in someone's
face, that's probably not us. Usis listening to both sides, and
trying to find that big middleground. And it is so
interesting. Just yesterday, ina presentation, I had an

(29:00):
opportunity to share whatadvocacy meant us and how
important that was. And thegroup so appreciated that in
terms that, you know, I'vedescribed at our agency, you
could be as involved personallyor not, depending on your job

(29:23):
and that you providedopportunities for us to speak
with legislators for us to shareour passion about what's
important, as well as doing thatindividually with theme. Listen,
that to me, has always meant alot.

Rikki Harris (29:43):
Mm hmm. Yeah. Is there a time that you recall
where a particularly importantadvocacy opportunity worked and
and was successful? And you sawit as a badge of honor that you
were part of it

Unknown (30:01):
Something that has been so important to me is the
formation of the FSScoalition's, which really
heightens the voice of peersupport, and those with lived
experience. And that has been abadge of honor for me to get
that growing across the state.
And people are now reallylooking to those coalition's for

(30:26):
input and value them. And thatto me, you know, that is family
voice.

Rikki Harris (30:36):
Yeah, that I agree, that's got to be a big
one on your list, because you,you are a catalyst for that, for
that coalition coming together.
So for the listeners, we'llexplain really quickly what that
is the Family Support Specialistcoalition is a group of people
who are peer support providers,they work in the field as peer
providers either as a familypeer provider, some of them as

(30:58):
CPRS, a certified recoveryspecialist. But knowing and
understanding what people havebeen through because they lived
it, and then sitting in the seatas a helper to them as support
to them, as they go throughwhatever it is they're
struggling with, either withtheir child or their family,
overall, you pulled together agroup, with the help of a grant

(31:21):
from the healing trust, we wereable to get a lot of support
around building up a coalitionand you pulled together all
these people who work in thefield, and provide peer support,
to kind of start to work onprofessionalizing, our, our
field, our group, the peers,and, and building community
support for each other trainingsthat they could participate in.

(31:46):
And then they took some really,you know, amazing stances on
some things to move the needle alittle bit for families and for
peers, you provide the the roleof the support to families. So I
agree. I mean, I've that's a bigstandout for me, too. And I
think you were you were theperfect person, the perfect time

(32:07):
to lead that group because youmentor people so well. And And
now's the time that you have tobrag on yourself a little bit,
which I know you're not going towant to do. But what are your
strengths? What what do you loveto do? And what are your
strengths? And what what makesyou excited to do this job every

Unknown (32:27):
day? What makes me excited to do this job every day
is I really love people andseeing their potential, and to
realize that sometimes that's anEarth. And if I could have a
role in unearthing thatpotential, whether it's an

(32:48):
individual family orindividuals, staff, wherever
that is, that is my passion.
Because I know, each one of usas the strengths to do that. I'm
a positive, my biggest strengthis ampacity.

Rikki Harris (33:07):
You are you are very positive. And people love
that about you. Where does thatlove for other people come from?
Where does that passion to seeothers Thrive come from?

Unknown (33:18):
I think it comes from well, of course, somewhere in my
own family, where I felt therewere some things I needed to
correct or work on to have thatdisplayed in a way that was
meaningful to me. But in many ofthe positions that I've had
throughout my life, where peoplewere discounted, and I knew they

(33:43):
had abilities, and that theyjust needed a personal advocate,
if you want to think of it thatway to really help others
understand their life situationand their abilities.

Rikki Harris (33:59):
Yeah, that's amazing. So we have a few
minutes left here, I'd love foryou to share what your
experience is working forTennessee voices you. You've
been with the organization for12 years. So something is making
you stick around. Obviouslywe've heard your passion drives
you your desire to see people besuccessful and thrive drives you

(34:23):
you're a leader in everycapacity you like to see other
people become leaders. Why? WhyTennessee voices What is it
about it that has kept you herefor 12 years and we're so glad
to have whatever it is.

Unknown (34:37):
Ricky I don't know if you know this or not, but I'll
share this now. I had retired.
And I'm high energy and Ithought oh my gosh, I can't do
this meaning we tire and made avery conscious effort and
reviewed agencies all over overthe internet, and I chose

(35:00):
Tennessee voices to plan. Andthat is the only place I
applied. And the reason why Ichose Tennessee voices was the
strong commitment to familiesand family voice. If you look at
us as an agency, we live, whatwe preach, which our agency file

(35:26):
actions as a support system forothers to be successful. That's
our own staff. And if our staffis successful, they're
successful in working withfamilies in so we really live
what we say is important to us.

(35:50):
And that's what keeps me going.
It's a very different atmosphereat work several points is so I
have a point of comparison. Itis so respectful, it is so
supportive. Now we have highexpectations, you have to do
what you have to do. I mean,that's the way our jobs are, you

(36:10):
know, you have requirements, shedid one. But the way we go about
it is with deep respect for theindividuals that we work with,
and the catering you feel a realcarry, this is the first place
that I have ever worked, that isfree to self care, and said, You

(36:33):
have got to take care yourself,because you use yourself and
your work. Nope. Like sever everworked. Was that supportive of
realizing how important andindividual is in the day he was
stabbed? Boy, I could go onforever. But that's

Rikki Harris (36:55):
it. Yeah. Well, that's awesome. I'm glad that
that message resonates andtranslates. And as we hope it
does, I sometimes I think aboutplaces I've worked like you were
saying, and the things that wedid to make sure we took care of
the furniture or made sure theoffices, the spaces looked nice

(37:17):
and inviting. And we worriedabout you know, managing our IT
equipment and keeping computersyou know, up to date and all
those fun things. But we nevertalked about taking care of our
number one tool and getting ourjob done well. And that was the
people who delivered theservices. I love that. I love

(37:37):
that message is resonating. Andyou as a leader are also
supporting that message withyour staff. And I know that they
appreciate that a lot. So anyany last minute things that we
should know about Kathy Rogersbefore we go, Oh, we don't know
about that. We should?

Unknown (37:57):
Oh, no, I think I've shared in this

Rikki Harris (38:02):
awesome, awesome.
Well, thank you so much, Kathy,I appreciate you taking the time
and sharing that and I lookforward to having you on again
soon.

Unknown (38:11):
Thank you so much, Ricky, you bet.

Erika Lathon (38:16):
We'll be right back after this short break.
September is Suicide PreventionMonth. And there are things each
of us can do to help preventsuicide. Every year at this time
lifeline and other mental healthorganizations and individuals
across the US and around theworld. Raise awareness of

(38:39):
suicide prevention. If you arehaving suicidal thoughts, call
1-800-273-8255 and head to teaand voices.org for mental health
resources, including our newlyrenovated online library. You
can be the one to preventsuicide this month, and all year

(39:01):
long. By gaining the tools andknowledge you need to foster
better mental health foryourself and those around you.
Welcome back.

Unknown (39:23):
Kenny. So thank you.
Thank you so much for joining metoday. For our can did podcast
segment. Jasmine is currently atherapist here in our outpatient
therapy program providingsupport to all ages, individuals
who are seeking therapy therapyin the moment. So Jasmine, tell
me a little bit about yourbackground, kind of what brought

(39:46):
you into the field.
Yeah, so I started with myundergraduate in 2015 at MTSU in
social work and Then I startedmy internship in 2018 at
Tennessee voices. So that was myfirst time being in the field.

(40:08):
I've always wanted to helppeople. So that's always my
passion. And I started out withprogram development, not working
one on one. So it's a big changefor me to be here now, as a
therapist, graduated with mymaster's in 2020. So last year,
fresh out and working withindividuals has been great. It's

(40:30):
been very exciting and somethingnew every day. So I've loved
that. And just getting to helppeople. One thing we always talk
about is what your why is andhelping people figure out what
their wives so fun to me. Itmakes me feel like I have
purpose. So that's kind of whyI'm here.
It is great to hear yes, youstarted with us back in 2018.

(40:52):
Time is flying. So talk to me alittle bit about what it was
like coming in as an intern in2018. To becoming staff and
leaving returning now you'reback with us? What has it been
like working for Tennesseevoices are being connected with
NZ voices over the past threeyears.

(41:13):
It's been so exciting. I thinkthe first time I came here, like
my first week here, I was sonervous, like what to expect
program professional developmentversus personal development, can
I be myself in the workplacethose things. And it was a
journey, let's just say that,um, to getting to be

(41:34):
comfortable. And knowing thatI'm in a place where I'm
accepted, is huge for me. AndI've always felt that Tennessee
voices. The youth voice issomething that we've always
pushed and just like being ableto be heard no matter what your
age is, or what your categoryyou fall into is. And so
inclusion has been huge for mehere, just feeling like I'm a

(41:55):
part of a whole or a systemthat's doing something positive
has been great. And then likethe transition from being an
intern to being an employee,even better, right, like getting
to know that I have a voice andkind of kind of development,
developing my own personalityand in this has been great. And

(42:17):
I definitely for four months,and it was one of those
experiences like you have to goout there. Sometimes they kind
of see what what you need orwhat you don't have or what you
already have. And I learned veryquickly, I had all the things I
needed all the tools I needed,and that I was where I was
supposed to be. And sometimesmoney is not is not the reason
to like go out there and try tobetter yourself. So I came back

(42:40):
and plan to stay. And it's justbeen one of those things where
like I said, my voice beingheard is one thing. But taking
it a step further and askingwell, what can we do with the
things that you need? Once youtell someone what you need, you
have to be positive in that andconfident in that. And that's
one thing that you have taughtme like confidence is key when
you ask for something know whatyou're asking for? And what does

(43:02):
that look like for you? So Ithink that I think
professionally, my voice hasbeen developed here in the most
positive way that it could be.
You mentioned voice a lot inwhat you just said. So how, as
an agency, I guess, how has thatbeen? The opportunity been
awarded to you.

(43:23):
So here we have our taglinefirsthand experiences, right.
And I think that at first comingin, it was very uncomfortable
for me to talk about my ownexperiences. Like that's
separate, you know, I'm aprofessional here. And I quickly
learned that those things mergeso fast, and that to kind of get
to get across to your clients orto reach them. Sometimes you

(43:45):
have to take off that therapistshat and say, Hey, I'm a human.
And this experience that we'rehaving here is a human
experience. And yes, I am herein a position of power to help
you but that power really meansnothing because you're in charge
and we have to meet you whereyou're at. And so using my voice
to empower others throughknowing that I've had

(44:06):
experiences similar to them. Andknowing that just because I'm a
therapist doesn't mean I'm thatmuch removed from what mental
health looks like and how it canaffect you as a person. So just
kind of, I think Ricky sent outa motivation to this morning
talking about humility, and Ithink about that a lot in my own
life. Like the word grace is bigfor me like what do you extend

(44:27):
to others when you need youknow, when they need it most and
then vice versa? What are yougiving out, you know, for those
people who need things, so justbeing me through and through
something that I have done withmy voice and I think that's been
accepted here and alsoappreciated.
That is good to hear. alwaysrewarding and you know, we talk

(44:49):
a lot as an agency we areTennessee voices, right? People
think we're out in thecommunity. I know in the past
they thought we weren't singinggroup. No, we use our voices in
different ways we advocate Howis it that or I guess, to
reframe the question, how wouldyou encourage someone to be able
to use their voice? I mean, youtalked a lot about, you know, we

(45:11):
mentioned youth voice and comingin as an intern. And three years
later, you're still using yourvoice in a therapeutic setting,
how would you encourage someoneelse to use their voice?
So I think, something that Davidand I talk about a lot, which is
my clinical supervisor,Tennessee voices clinical
supervisor, he often pairs voicewith choice. So what does that

(45:34):
look like? You know, givingsomeone that power to use our
voice is one thing, but I thinkthat, like real advocacy is
telling them the ways to use it.
Right? So here, you already hadthe tool to begin with, you've
always had your voice, but oftenpresented as from zero to 18,
we're told what we can dobasically, right, like, we have
these rules that we have tofollow, we have fine lines, some

(45:55):
of those are in our control, andsome of them aren't. Right. So
what can we do with that afterthat 18 age, we started getting
a little bit more choice. Butyou know, from that time that
zero to 18, it's very, this orthat, right? So kind of learning
what it looks like when youdon't have this or that option,
when you have to create your ownthis or that. And realizing what

(46:16):
power that like that gives yougives a person it's empowering.
And it's also kind of scary,right? When you're the person in
power. It's like, oh, no, what'shappened? What can I do with
that? So, you know, just givingthem tools to say, Hey, you are
capable. You might have had yourvoice, you know, muted before,
but it's okay. Like, we can workpast that. And just giving

(46:38):
people confidence. Again, Ithink I struggle with that
sometimes just fear is a bigemotion. For me, it drives me
often I have anxiety, I talkabout it all the time. And so,
you know, giving that power inmy life, what does that look
like? Do I want it to be louderthan my own voice? No, of course
not. So just you know, remindingpeople that there are things

(46:59):
that are going to kind of beobstacles, but you still can use
your voice? And how does thatlook for you?
That's good. And you talk a lotabout you go from your
professional standpoint toletting people know, yeah,
you're still human, you're atherapist, and you're still
human. These are things that Istruggle with, which is awesome
thing that continues to showyour humility. You mentioned

(47:22):
just a minute ago, that here issomething you know, sometimes it
creeps up on you, and youcontinue to still move forward
and push forward. There are alot of people that we're hoping
to reach in these podcasts andare going to be experiencing a
lot of not only what Rick and Iare talking about, but with
every guest that comes on thisshow and mentions as well. So

(47:42):
there's someone out there that'slistening right now. And that
fear is something that they canrelate to? How would you
encourage them? You know, whensomething that you You, yourself
used to continue to push forwardat times, what would you tell
someone else's list Ialways tell my clients fear is a
chameleon emotion. So we look atchameleons, and they they

(48:04):
respond to the stimulus in theirenvironment. So if they're
scared, which typically whathappens whenever they change
emotion, they match theirenvironment, so you can't see
them anymore, right? So I'lltalk about that a lot. Like, how
is fear driving you in yourlife? And how does that look
like? When do you change colors?
When do you act like somethingyou're not right. And so with

(48:29):
that, I always let them know theonly time that we should talk
about what ifs is, if we'regoing to be a scientist.
Sometimes they like thatsometimes they don't. But 5050
is something that can drive yourlife, right? Like, well, it
could go this way, or it couldgo that way. So always say you
know, put put your hope in thegood things, and do work around

(48:50):
that. Put your hope in the goodthings that can happen and hope
that that does come through andcome to fruition. I'll give you
the tools I'll give you thesupport. I'll be someone you can
count on our model that for you.
And we'll work through thattogether. So I always tell
people, you're not alone. Fearis something that is going to
always be present. And we haveto figure out what what ways can

(49:10):
we come we can we come overcomethose fears that we do have? So
it's good, and it's good. Youprobably just helped a lot of
people will vote. Yeah, I'mbeing serious about being
serious. You've been here threeyears and you have seen a lot of

(49:32):
change, change and staff, changein leadership in different
levels. And you also were hereduring pandemic while we were
trying to figure out what doesthis look like how do we still
provide services. And you alsowere here as we talked about

(49:53):
racial inequality, things goingon in the world. You decided to
join the culture versus they'venever seen an inclusion
committee. You brought a very,very, very great perspective.
You also were part of thatplanning committee to really get

(50:13):
there, where we we sat and weopenly talked about how we were
filming about what was going on.
After the aftermath of GeorgeFloyd's killing, you wrote
poetry. You wrote letters,things that helped you cope. And
then you also take the time totalk with other staff members

(50:33):
and been able to educate me.
Talk to me about how thatexperience was for you. Because
you weren't doing therapy atthat time?
I was my idea is I always myown. Maybe what now that time
was hard for everyone, which wasbeautiful that we were able to

(50:56):
be together on, I think, I thinkour agency did something that a
lot of people were scared to do,which was talk about it the
first step, right. And that wasthat that was huge for me,
because coming from the placethat we come from.
And so those that, yeah.

(51:16):
So being the one that's not theone in the room, basically, what
that means to me is beingdifferent. Being an outlier,
being someone who you canvisibly say, Hey, you don't look
like everyone else, or you'renot, you're not coming out with
the same things that otherpeople are coming with. Right?
So we look at marginalizedpeople. And I feel like a lot of

(51:37):
times in my life, I've fallen inthat category, for different
reasons, being a woman, being aperson of color, different
things like that. And so for me,I was like, wow, look at look at
this opportunity for us to kindof come together as a whole and
people to hear us, right, like,really hear how we feel. And so

(52:00):
I loved I love the opportunity,I think the biggest thing I got
from that whole experience. AndI think that our agency really
did some good healing in thattime, was that the first step is
being courageous enough just tosay, Hey, this is what's going
on. And like, we have got totalk about it right. Having
those hard conversations issomething that's so important,

(52:21):
and maybe we don't see changefor five years after the combo,
right? Maybe it's 10 yearslater, I don't know. But I know
that it feels good in thatmoment, to know that other
people care. And to kind of justcome together on that. And so
the CDF CDI has been amazing. Ithink that everyone in, in, in

(52:43):
involved around it have beenopen and honest. And I think
that's another beautiful conceptthat we haven't always gotten.
And then the conversationsoutside, you know, I've taken it
to other meetings, like, Hey, Ididn't see you there. And I just
want you to know, this is whatwe're doing. Right. And that
even having that received well,has been a great a great

(53:03):
feeling. You know, I'm sittinghere right now, with Black Lives
Matter, earrings. I mean, it'slike, no one cares about that,
you know, like, it's importantthat we can say and express
ourselves the way that we feeland be accepted. And then in
return, you know, be positivelyreinforced by that. We talked
about that a lot. And so I thinkthat, you know, it was good, it

(53:28):
was good for everyone. It wasgood for the agency, and we have
to keep doing that work. We haveto never give up on it. Because
I think it's so important.
Which led me into my nextquestion, you kind of just
answered it a little bit. Whydid you join the committee? They
you said it was something that alot of other agencies didn't do

(53:49):
something that we had not donehere, as an agency, what made
you join it?
I think it's one of those thingsthat like, sometimes you know,
what you have to offer likebefore you come to a table or a
position. And then sometimes youhave no idea like maybe I'm just
there just to say I'm there tobe a part of the collective? I

(54:09):
don't know. I think I felt likeI had no choice. Right. Like,
it's one of those things that Idid without thinking kind of
like breathing like, Oh, I'mgonna do that for sure. Because
it's a part of my passion. Andit's something that isn't
personal. That doesn't justpersonally affect me, but
professionally, you know, it'ssomething that has followed me

(54:29):
for my wife and will continue tofollow me. And I think that this
was not only like healing, likeI said, but also good practice,
because there's going to beanother situation where we have
to speak up and have thatdifficult, difficult
conversation. I think one timein a meeting you told me it was
like, not what you say. It's notwhat you say it's how you say
it. And then I'm like, Okay, Ihave important things to say and

(54:53):
I'm always gonna say them.
That's one thing about me, nomatter what it is, so just
finding the way to say hey, Igot this going on or Hey, like,
I wanted to talk to you aboutthis, like, those things are so
important. And I think the CDI,C C. Cid, is that right? Yep.
The the CDL use meabbreviations? Um, yeah, I think
that that's another thing thatgives us the ability to do like,

(55:14):
you know, teaching us that thereare hard topics, we're even
going to have thoseconversations with our clients.
So if you can't do that withyourself and your own time and
your own comfort zone, youcannot do that with another
person. So yeah, I think it doesa lot for everyone. And it also
just gives a safe space to kindof say, hey, this happened, and
I need somebody hear me.

(55:39):
I'll tell you a difficultconversation. You talked about
vulnerability, having those hardconversations. I remember you as
a new therapist, you came intomy office one day, and you say,
Well, I got a question for you.
And before I can send you away,I said, what? You asked me, what
should you do to a certainsituation? Do you recall where

(56:02):
I'm heading with this? Ofcourse, referral that was a
outpatient therapy, bro. Theyrequested an African American
female therapist. And you like,I mean, what if? What if you
have a different backgroundstory that really hit home to

(56:24):
me, because we're both black.
We're both African Americans.
From my viewpoint, for walkingin my shoes. Your background is
different from mine. And thereare different struggles that you
face being a black female that Idon't face as a black male. And
then you come from aninterracial background. Given

(56:47):
the scenario, looking back onwhere you were in that moment,
how do you encourage otherindividuals who have backgrounds
that is similar to yours? How dothey cope with what's going on?
What do they? How do they dealwith it?

(57:11):
Yeah, so I think something weoften talk about is skin color.
I've often made comments like,you know, what, my skin is not
outwardly black. So that does tome a different category, I am
mixed, which is a fact of life,by Rachel, whatever you want to
call it. And, you know, I've hadthis conversation 1000 times my

(57:32):
grandma. And she'd always say,Well, what do you identify?
That's all that matters. And youknow, that looks different for
everyone. And everyone gets theright identify with what they
want to and I think that'ssomething I personally believe
in. So I guess that's where Ioriginally was coming from with
the question I say, in thatscenario, if anyone else is

(57:52):
faced with that, but you got tohush that self doubt, because at
the bottom of that self doubt,was a person once again, back to
humility. And, you know, youreminded me like your therapist,
just do your job, right. So Ithink that in this world, we
have all these hats, what I callthem, they're also identities,

(58:12):
whatever you want to call it,boxes, to check off, whatever.
And, you know, I think that theyweigh on us sometimes. You know,
I've, like I said, I'm a woman,I'm a woman of color. I am a
biracial woman. So yeah, I havebeen right in the middle of all
of that my whole life. Andnavigating that has never been
just a simple black and whiteanswer, which is now no pun

(58:33):
intended there. So when lookingat that, you know, I think self
doubt is easy to feel it's, youactually gave me a book recently
Brene Brown book, talking aboutyour your best thing, and I have
literally not put it down sinceyou gave it to me to return, but
I'm working on it. So it willreturn quickly. Um, and one of

(58:55):
the things that they talk aboutis black guilt. And what does
that look like? Right? Like,everyone's is different. And it
comes in all shapes and sizes,and it's very careful, right?
You carry it anywhere you go.
And so, you know, there's essaysin there that talk about that.
And each version of like, guiltis different. So different but

(59:16):
it's, it's definitely somethingthat you can relate to on each
scenario. So you know, thatadvice that I have for that is
just hush yourself out andremember who you are remember
your ancestors remember what youcame from what you what was
built around you which wasliterally this country. So I

(59:37):
think you know those thingsEmpower Me and remind me that I
am where I'm supposed to be. Ialways tell myself I have this
quote in my mirror in mybathroom, don't question the
table you set up someone set youthere Right? And a lot of times
you know maybe it's you reallybrought me in here into this
agency gave me choice the firsttime where maybe, you know, I

(01:00:00):
worked for I don't know whichone it is, but either one, I
have been here and I've beenawarded this spot. So I can't
question that. So that's myadvice.
Yeah, I'm gonna challenge that.
He said, I gave you a spot. Howhard did you work as an intern?
Are you work hard for it andyou earn it spot, Uranus. But
you know, there are a lot ofinterns that come through, and

(01:00:24):
they work hard. Andunfortunately, we're not able to
find a place when it time. Theythere are moments where things
align together, and they workout perfect way as they should.
You work hard for it as anintern, you understand the
importance of networking, andshowing people who you truly

(01:00:46):
are, and really learning tounderstand your why. And just
talk about it, but understandyour why. So you're in your seat
at the table. You're great atit.
Thank you. Thank you. Yes,yes. So we talk a lot about self
care. We've talked about youknow why you got into the field

(01:01:08):
and youth boys finding yourvoice having your own lived
experience, cultural competencebeing black in America? What are
some self care tips that you cangive listeners out there that
you have found helpful indealing with any of those
categories? Yeah, soself care is something you

(01:01:31):
taught me. So kudos. Beforethat, I did not know what self
care was just flat out to behonest. Um, and I think that
self care is once again ajourney, one of those lifelong
journeys that we should neverquit, and always seek. And for
me, advice on self care is,whatever you can do to de

(01:01:51):
glamorize it do that. Self careneeds to be accessible. I mean,
literally, at the snap of afinger, it needs to be something
that always makes you feel good,not a 50% time and then the
other time it doesn't, right. Itneeds to be something that you
can do at any moment, anyplaceand anytime. You know, I often
tell my people that you've gotto find free self care first,

(01:02:15):
and then build on that build onthe things that you can't afford
to do and the things that willget to you, but self care at the
basis. Literally what makes youfeel good. If that's walking
outside for five minutes inbetween your break, you do that
right? And then making a planfor is the other thing I never
thought about, like why would Iplan my self care, right? That
was another thing you taught me,I'm like, why don't need to

(01:02:37):
write this down. But we all knowthat if we see things we're more
apt to do, though. So writing itdown is really important. And
it's kind of like setting a goalfor yourself. If you don't have
the intention to accomplish thatgoal. You won't do it. So I
think it's really huge. Everyoneshould have a self care plan, it
should be reevaluated every 30days type thing. And it should,

(01:02:57):
it should be specific to thingsthat work for you and things
that don't, you should haveoptions, plenty of options.
I learned that along the way aswell. Options are good options
are good. You heard me tell thestory. I got that guitar during
the pandemic. And that was goingto be a part of my self care

(01:03:18):
plan. But I can't read music. Soit became more of a stressor. So
I had to change that up. Well,listen to people play guitars.
That's my ministry right there.
Yes, listening to music insteadof playing. It's good. Good. So
as we as we wrap up being atherapist, you're headed on the

(01:03:40):
licensor licensure track. Veryexciting, very exciting. What is
your hope for those who arescared to enter into their into
enter into therapy of their own?
What's your hope for those whomay not even see the importance

(01:04:04):
of going?
Well, I always want to validatethat there's a lot of reasons to
fear therapist to fear systemhelp, basically, bottom line,
there is generational trauma,then there is just real life
fears. You know, like, what ifthey don't help me or what if
they're not what I need in thismoment? I went to some

(01:04:26):
conference, I believe it wassocat. And I cannot remember the
speaker's name the life of me,so forgive me. But they said
something that's always stuckwith me. And they said that
therapy is like dating. And atfirst I was like, What? No way.
But then I thought about it. AndI was like, yes, absolutely.
Like you have to date around.
You have to be open to dating,right first, that's the first

(01:04:47):
step. And then you have to beopen for it to be bad. Okay, and
that you can find someone good.
Okay. So I think that'simportant to know that your
first experience may not gowell. Your first therapists may
be terrible. And that's okaytoo. So keeping that in your
mind, I mean, open to it. Andthen the other part is I do

(01:05:10):
what's called parallels for mypeople, because sometimes with
mental health being a new thing,right, because something that's
trending right now, it's hard tounderstand, we talked about
fear, we fear things we don'tunderstand. So I do parallels
all the time, physical health,you got to your physical health
doctor, right, you have tomaintain your physical body, you
have a whole body here. Well,your mind is inside of your

(01:05:33):
body. And it's very importantthat we maintain our mental
health, which is our brain. Andso you know, just letting them
know that just like you have abody to maintain you have a
mind, that does not mean thatyou have a mental health
disorder that's going to labelyou for life. It just means that
you have some things to takecare of, you got a little tune
up you need here and there, youknow, you got to relax,

(01:05:56):
everyone. So out, restart,recharge those things, and just
normalizing as much as we can.
People always are worried, oh,if we talk about mental health,
everyone's gonna know, if wedon't talk about it, no one's
going to get help. And that'sthe biggest thing for me talk,
talk, talk, talk, even whenyou're uncomfortable talk a
little bit more. Until someonesays, oh, I never thought about

(01:06:16):
it like that, or oh, that's thefirst time I'm hearing and then
you know, you've done you'vedone a good job. So I think
Monique says this a lot. One ofour staff she wants her job is
to work herself out of a job.
And I'm adopting that mindset, Iwould love to wake up one day
and no one need me, I think thatit would be a little frightening

(01:06:38):
as a helper to feel that I willmight be a little panicked, but
at the same time, I feel like itwould feel like I've
accomplished a lot. And then Iwould feel good to know that my
clients are empowered and doingthings on their own. So go out
there, try things out and getsome help. It's okay.
I love you, Ihope you understand the impact

(01:06:58):
that you are making. Thispodcast is meant for people to
realize that you know what, youcan do it and look back and say,
Yeah, I did it. I did it. So Iappreciate you for being a part
of another great impact thatwe're trying to make as people
as an agency, and thank you foreverything that you're doing. So

(01:07:22):
we really appreciate it. Reallyappreciate. Final words you want
to leave for anybody listening,ready to wrap up and get the
next session. Understandable.
Thank you. Thank you.

Erika Lathon (01:07:39):
Thank you for joining us. If you enjoy today's
program, like subscribe andreview this podcast. If you or
someone you know is in need ofmental health support services,
log on to tn voices.org or callone 806 70988 to join us next

(01:07:59):
time as we get Candice