April 25, 2025 • 21 mins
What happens when police identify a school threat but face unexpected legal barriers to filing the charges the public expects? Chief Anthony Sizemore sits down with Host Lisa Greenberg and takes listeners behind the scenes of a recent case that sparked community confusion and outrage.
When two young adults were involved in the creation and posting of a disturbing video where one specifically threatened to shoot up a local elementary school with an AR-15, the resulting charges left many people questioning why the punishment didn't seem to match the crime. In this candid discussion, Chief Sizemore breaks down the complex legal framework that governed our response, explaining why only the person who posted the video—not the one who made the verbal threat—could be charged under Florida's mass shooting threat statute.
The conversation reveals the often-frustrating gap between what feels right and what's legally possible in law enforcement. "There are times when a law and common sense part ways," Chief Sizemore explains, detailing how this statute, born from the Parkland tragedy, wasn't written to address every scenario police now encounter (through no fault of lawmakers). Rather than simply accepting these limitations, learn how the Cape Coral Police Department is actively working with state representatives, neighboring agencies, and the Florida Police Chiefs Association to close this dangerous loophole.
This episode offers rare insight into how police departments navigate complex legal constraints while still finding ways to protect public safety—in this case through alternative charges and the application of Florida's risk protection order to remove firearms from the suspect. For anyone who's ever wondered why police "didn't do more" in a high-profile case, this conversation pulls back the curtain on the legal realities that shape law enforcement responses to threats in our communities.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back to another episode of the Cape Cop
cast Chiefs chat edition.
I'm one of your hosts, lisaGreenberg, my counterpart
Mercedes, still on maternityleave, but I'm here with Chief
Sizemore again today.
How you doing, chief, I'm great.
Good morning.
Good morning, so far, so good.
This week it's been busy, butyeah, rolling on.
Can't complain.
Last week was busy and I wantto get into that a little bit
(00:26):
because we had a school threatsituation involving two
individuals.
They're adults, young adults.
I know there was a lot ofconfusion surrounding the
charges that were filed againstthese two individuals and just
kind of the situation in general, and I think while you're
sitting here it's a goodopportunity to kind of clear
that up for people who may stillhave questions or concerns
about why the charges were whatthey were.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Sure, I'll do it in my typical group of three, right
?
So what happened?
Why did we do what we did?
And then where are we goingnext steps?
Perfect.
So what happened was lastweekend.
You reached out to me and saidthere's been a lot of
conversation in the communityand it looks as if there's some
(01:08):
confusion as to what happened.
So the week prior so it wasEaster weekend last weekend, it
was the Sunday before we hadreceived a tip from
Crimestoppers.
No-transcript.
(01:50):
He was going to go to diplomatelementary school.
He was going to bring an AR 15style rifle I believe that's the
rifle that he quoted and wasgoing to shoot up, I believe,
fourth and fifth grade class.
I mean very specific, veryshocking.
As a police chief, it was veryunnerving and as a father who
has kids in the district of onethat age, it really hit Like wow
(02:16):
, how could you say somethinglike that?
The posting of it was early inthe month and he had a date
certain when he was going to doit, which was the thursday the
17th, if memory serves yep sothis was before that.
So, um, even on a sunday, ourdetectives are working.
We're here, uh, theyimmediately sprung into what the
(02:39):
heck is this right?
So we get this tip from, fromcrime stoppers, our, our
analysts and our detectives findout um kareem hussein, where he
lives, name, rank, horsepower,and then we're able to find out
that the video was posted bygarth, and what platform and ip
(02:59):
address, and, and so we're ableto quickly identify both of them
.
Um, immediately go out, makecontact, and then you start
looking at what is it?
It appears to be a crime.
I mean no kidding.
So what relevant crimes do youhave?
And the most relevant one wehave is the written or
electronically communicatedthreats, threats and the statute
(03:23):
for that was born out of schoolshootings throughout the
country but, in particularParkland Florida, with Marjory
Stoneman Douglas High School,which prompted legislation, the
Marjory Stoneman Douglas Act,which is why we have SROs in
every, every school.
that's why everybody doesthroughout the state, from the
elementary level all the way upto high school.
(03:45):
There's numbers so up under athousand students, you have one.
If you have over a thousand,it's two.
If you hit over 2000, it'sthree.
You know different triggers inlegislation.
There's also a Florida's versionof a red flag law which is
called a risk protection orderor RPO.
We've had a lot of success withthat since its inception.
(04:08):
So one of the statutes thatcame about was this written
threat or electronicallycommunicated threat, and
typically that statute wasintended for.
I believe when the lawmakersdid that, they acted very
quickly with good intentions.
It's difficult in government torapidly employ a law because
(04:33):
you're going to have a lot ofthings that fall through the
cracks or situations that youcan't envision at the time.
But the true intent and spiritof that law was for students who
were making threats aboutshooting up their own schools.
That's a lot of the data showsthat that's what you have.
You do have cases where formerstudents come back, in really
rare circumstances, somebody notaffiliated with the school will
(04:55):
do that.
You'll have domestic violencesituations with teachers and
staff that spill over.
We had that at a daycare manyyears ago, where you have a
shooting at a school, it's notthe one you envision in your
head of a bullied student whohas access to guns and rings.
So that's what the law kind oftailors to is that this is not,
(05:16):
that.
This was somebody completelyunaffiliated with the school.
So we had to really dive intothat statute and make sure that
it's going to work, becausethese are also a lot of what
you'd call a sole operator orsingle person comes up with the
threat, writes the threat andleaves it at the school,
electronically posts a threateither by word or by video, you
(05:40):
know, and they are the one thatdo it all self-contained.
This was not.
This was somebody in the bardistrict of downtown Fort Myers.
Later we found out wasintoxicated.
No excuse, no problem with that,but says this very specific,
vile, scary, threateningintention, and then Mr Garth
(06:04):
films it and then posts it.
So as we're reading the statute, we're like this is tricky,
because this guy doesn't meetthe definition.
Now, if you act outside of astate statute, you make an
arrest for a charge and youdon't meet all of the elements,
or you go outside of the fourcorners of that law, that's a
bad arrest.
Are there any other statutesthat would do that?
(06:26):
Some people have thought well,what about assault?
Assault is threatening somebody,but the element of assault has
to be readily able to do it.
Meaning you and I are prettyclose, about arm's length close,
and if I'm showing signs thatI'm pretty upset with you and I
say I'm going to hit you, that'sa threat and I'm close enough
(06:48):
to do it.
Right now, immediate, I can doit.
I'm going to do somethingreally stupid or vile or heinous
.
Or if I'm on the phone and I'min St Louis, missouri, when I
get to Florida, I'm going toslap you right in the face.
That's not an assault, becauseI'm not there, I'm not able to
(07:10):
really do it.
So there's a million differentstatutes, it could not be.
So we're not going to gothrough all of those.
That was one of them.
Why not that?
So why didn't he meet theelements of Florida state
statute 83610, which is thethreat threat of mass shootings,
mass violence?
He made the comments period,didn't write them, didn't post
them.
It wasn't his channel, he'sjust being a jerk.
(07:32):
To be honest with you, garthtook it, videoed it and then
took the conscious step to goahead and post it.
That meets the elements of it.
So these guys are we got to getthese guys right for doing
something like that.
Our kids are the most preciouspeople that we have in the city.
It's a priority for thedepartment.
So we met that element forGarth.
(07:56):
It's tricky with Hussein.
So we engage the stateattorney's office, we work with
them.
We don't just act independently, make arrests and shoot it over
there and then hey, you knowyour job your turn Right.
We don't do that.
That's not what a partnershipis.
So, especially on cases thatare a little tricky, a little
nuanced in the statute, weengage them early.
Where are we at?
What do you guys think?
(08:17):
Is this a case that you couldprosecute and win?
So we communicated our beliefin the interpretation of the
statute and the very talentedprosecutors that we work with.
A lot said, as bad as it is,take the emotion out of it.
You're right, it doesn't meetit for Hussein.
You're not able to do that.
Now, when you're told by yourprosecuting partners that it
(08:41):
doesn't meet it, we cannotprosecute it.
We arrest them.
You can't act or arrest peopleon emotion.
Well, it should be.
So you're going to jail forthat.
We don't work that way.
They would get arrested, theywould go to first appearance.
The judge would read thecharges and go this doesn't fit.
And, as a matter of fact, youhad counsel from the state
(09:03):
attorney's office that said itdoesn't fit.
You did it anyway.
The guy's gone, he's kicked out, dismissed, and then there's
going to be sanctions against usand then Hussein now has action
against the police departmentor anybody that's arrested for a
willfully wrong charge.
You just don't.
That's not what we're here for,but we're in a solutions
(09:23):
business.
So what can you do?
There is a statute.
It's a misdemeanor, but it'sthe one that we have available
to us.
It's called disruption of aschool function.
The typical application of thatcharge would be a fight at the
school where they're mutualcombatants.
You don't have a battery, youget an affray at the school.
You have a school bus pulledover because the kids are going
(09:47):
crazy and impeding the driver.
You've had situations like that.
That's disruption of a schoolfunction.
You can have it at off-schoolevents.
You can have it at footballgames or soccer games.
It's a misdemeanor chargethat's at your disposal.
With a misdemeanor, you have towitness it happening.
There are certain exceptions,like domestic violence et cetera
(10:09):
.
There's a handful ofmisdemeanor exceptions that
charge is not.
So we made the threat back onthe 5th.
It was posted, we became awareof it on the 13th and then on
the 17th is when he wassupposedly going to do this act.
So on the 17th a lot of parentsheld their kids out of school.
(10:31):
Totally get it.
I mean, it's not something youmess around with.
So Garth had already beenarrested for the charge of
communicating a threat of massviolence, because he's the one
who willfully decided to do thatand strike fear into everybody.
Hussein had not and he had notbeen charged at this point, but
on the 17th, a large percentageof students were kept out of
(10:54):
class by their parents.
We were there to witness thathappening and by witnessing that
act, that was a disruption ofthe school's normal function.
That's the way we stretched toapply it.
We communicated with the state.
They said you know what thatactually fits, and then we were
able to arrest Hussein for that.
Is it the threat of massviolence?
(11:17):
Arrest?
No, it's not.
I wish we could have.
I honestly do.
There's there's what I believeto be a hole in the law.
Uh, I don't think it wasintentional by the lawmakers at
the time when they did it.
I think they were acting um ona very omnibus bill to try to
help with the situation.
Another element of that was thered flag law.
(11:37):
So those statements that hemade very concerning enough for
us to go and apply the riskprotection order red flag for
layman's terms.
So we go to court, you petitiona judge with all of the
evidence that you have and allthe information that you have,
and the judge granted thetemporary RPO or risk protection
(12:00):
order.
We then went to Hussein's homeand all of his firearms are in
our possession pending anotherhearing.
So the law on that is everyyear you have to reapply that
the person is eitherrehabilitated or that's really
for the courts to decide.
So the tools at our disposalwere 83610, florida statute for
(12:23):
communicating a mass threat onGarth.
He was arrested for that.
A red flag or a risk protectionorder on Mr Hussein was applied
for, granted and enacted.
We did that and then, when wewitnessed the disruption of a
school function, clearly basedupon his comments, that was our
(12:43):
way to complete the circuit, ifyou will, and arrest Mr Hussein.
So that's why, right, and ittook me how long to explain all
right.
Yeah, we're already 13 minutesin right and we do that for a
living and we work withprofessionals for a living on
the very nuanced application ofthe law.
(13:06):
There's another thing in thelaw called case law, where you
can read the statute, but onceit's an arrest has been made or
worked its way through the courtsystem, there are certain court
decisions that come down aboutthat law that are called case
law, and then they apply toeverybody.
So you have the statute, thenyou have other layers on top, so
there's a lot to it.
(13:28):
So you can pick up a statutebook and read it.
And why isn't it this?
Well, there's something calledcase law.
There's something called thestandard that attorneys have to
have to ethically and legallyprosecute a case, and you just
simply can't prosecute a case ormake an arrest on a case where
it doesn't meet the statute.
So that's why I get the anger.
(13:48):
I'm angry at those two.
It's the stupidest thing thatyou could do in today's climate.
Then we had the incident atFlorida State just recently, on
the heels of really what's sadlybecome a weekly thing for
shootings in this country.
I think it's horrible.
And to do it saying that youlike dark humor or shock value,
(14:11):
it's just Just to.
I got to watch my language onthe podcast and we'll get a
warning label Irresponsible,absolutely.
And I get being furious at thembecause I am too.
I get the fear as a parent.
I get the.
It's something that I have.
A million things that I worryabout every day in my
professional life, and one ofthose is keeping the school safe
(14:33):
.
We have a lot of campuses acrossour city.
We're a big city, you know,seventh largest, one of the
biggest school districts in thestate of Florida, which is the
third biggest state in thecountry.
We have 27 campuses that wepatrol.
It's a lot.
You know, our SRO unit of allthe SROs and the supervisors are
(14:54):
bigger than the average policedepartment in this country.
So we are really committed tothe average police department in
this country.
Wow, so we are really committedto the schools.
So I get that and I get theconfusion.
Why wouldn't that do it?
Because when a law is congruentwith common sense, it's nice
and easy.
There are times when a law andcommon sense part ways, and I
(15:16):
think this is one of those.
So what do you do at this point?
Blame us.
I can't blame us because we didit correct.
Obviously, you blame theperpetrators, but that's the
business Perpetrators going toperpetrate.
Right, you blame the stateattorney's office?
Absolutely not.
They did their job and we workwith them every day.
(15:39):
They're they're the best.
Um, the lawmakers, they, theydid the best that they could
with expedient action.
Right, we always get mad at ourlawmakers for not taking action
.
They did.
They just couldn't envisioneverything that could happen.
So now we're starting to hone inon where we go and we have a
great relationship with ourlocal representative who's in
(16:01):
the Florida House ofRepresentatives.
He represents Cape Coral.
He's a Mariner High School grad.
His name is Mike Gialombardo.
I'm on a Mike-Tony basis withhim and I called him on Saturday
when you told me that there wassome confusion.
I said there's work to be done.
So I called Mike and Mike and Ihad a conversation.
Or, representative Gio Lombardo, we had a conversation and he
(16:22):
goes.
I've seen it.
I saw the video.
I'm familiar with the case.
Absolutely.
He's in session now up inTallahassee doing all of our
work right now and we are goingto start the process of finding
a way to close that loophole.
I had a conversation this weekwith Jason Fields, the chief of
(16:42):
Fort Myers.
I talked to the sheriff.
He even out of state.
He and I talked because it'snear and dear to deeper
conversation about rallying allof our local law enforcement
leaders to work with ourrepresentatives in Tallahassee
(17:04):
to show that this is serious.
The city manager has workedwith the city's lobbying firm in
Tallahassee to say, hey, thepolice chief has got this, throw
the weight of the citygovernment behind it when this
thing starts rolling.
I belong to the Florida PoliceChiefs Association, which is a
network of Florida police chiefs, and we talk about legislation
(17:26):
and lobbying and getting thingslike this, where we identify in
the course of our daily dutiesan opportunity to make something
better.
And I've engaged the FloridaPolice Chiefs Association to
also throw our weight behind itin Tallahassee.
So everybody's been heard,everybody's been understood.
We were saying it right alongwith you, and that's the action
(17:49):
that we're taking, movingforward.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Absolutely.
You know, I know you don't.
You're not on Facebook, so ofcourse I go through some of the
comments and just seeing so manycomments of wow, the Cape Coral
police department reallyscrewed this one up and this,
and that you know, and I'mjumping in and trying to explain
.
It is the Cape Coral policedepartment's job to enforce the
law, to know the law inside andout and enforce it accordingly.
(18:13):
It is not our job to create thelaw.
It's the same thing with oh,we've seen so many car accidents
at X and Y streets.
Why isn't there a traffic light?
Come on, Cape Coral PoliceDepartment.
It's the same thing.
It's not our job to put atraffic light there.
Once a traffic light is there,we can enforce that.
If you're running a red light,we're going to pull you over and
(18:34):
give you a ticket, but it's notour job for that.
So I think this is helpful inclearing that up, and not only
are we doing what we can when itcomes to the parameters of the
law, we're taking it a stepfurther by engaging our leaders.
Hey, this is a loophole.
We're dealing with it here.
Now that this has happened, itcould become more common.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Let's close this loophole, Right that's the part
I'm most proud of.
I know uh, you said itperfectly that we enforce what's
on the books.
It would be easy, and I'm surethere are some places throughout
the country that would you know.
That's it we right.
We only do what we're allowed todo, you know, call your
legislator or deal with it.
I'm very proud of this agencyand of our surrounding agencies
(19:17):
that we don't do that.
We don't wipe our hands of itand say, hey, that's the brakes.
No, we found it or weexperienced it.
Now what are we going to do?
It's like if you're at your homeor your workplace and somebody
left trash on the floor.
How many times are you going tostep over that before you pick
it up and put it in the garbage?
Fix it, don't just.
(19:37):
Well, I didn't throw it there,right?
No, it doesn't work like that.
We're all working together topick up something that has
fallen and put it back where itneeds to be, and that's what
we're doing legislatively isworking to make it safer for
everybody.
So hopefully, people don't dothings like that.
But we have a job becausepeople do things like that.
(19:58):
So when they do, we want tohave the right tools to be able
to hold people accountable tothe rest of society who are
doing it right.
Exactly, perpetrator is goingto perpetrate.
That's a good one right.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
It is.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Maybe a shirt.
Perfect, we'll start sellingmerch Anything else, chief, I
really think that that helpskind of clear it up for anyone
who isn't on social media andmaybe didn't see your message
there.
I think it's good that we brokeit down.
Sure, yeah, I feel good aboutthat one Coming up.
In about two weeks it's PoliceMemorial Week or National Police
(20:31):
Week, so I think next weekmaybe we'll do a little chat
about that.
Perfect Little tease.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
We're letting the people know what's coming.
They'll be on the edge of theirseats.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I bet.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Well, thank you so much, Chief.
I appreciate it, and thank youagain for listening and watching
and joining us, and we will seeyou next week.
Have a good one.
Welcome back to another episode of the Cape Cop
cast Chiefs chat edition.
I'm one of your hosts, lisaGreenberg, my counterpart
Mercedes, still on maternityleave, but I'm here with Chief
Sizemore again today.
How you doing, chief, I'm great.
Good morning.
Good morning, so far, so good.
This week it's been busy, butyeah, rolling on.
Can't complain.
Last week was busy and I wantto get into that a little bit
(00:26):
because we had a school threatsituation involving two
individuals.
They're adults, young adults.
I know there was a lot ofconfusion surrounding the
charges that were filed againstthese two individuals and just
kind of the situation in general, and I think while you're
sitting here it's a goodopportunity to kind of clear
that up for people who may stillhave questions or concerns
about why the charges were whatthey were.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Sure, I'll do it in my typical group of three, right
?
So what happened?
Why did we do what we did?
And then where are we goingnext steps?
Perfect.
So what happened was lastweekend.
You reached out to me and saidthere's been a lot of
conversation in the communityand it looks as if there's some
(01:08):
confusion as to what happened.
So the week prior so it wasEaster weekend last weekend, it
was the Sunday before we hadreceived a tip from
Crimestoppers.
No-transcript.
(01:50):
He was going to go to diplomatelementary school.
He was going to bring an AR 15style rifle I believe that's the
rifle that he quoted and wasgoing to shoot up, I believe,
fourth and fifth grade class.
I mean very specific, veryshocking.
As a police chief, it was veryunnerving and as a father who
has kids in the district of onethat age, it really hit Like wow
(02:16):
, how could you say somethinglike that?
The posting of it was early inthe month and he had a date
certain when he was going to doit, which was the thursday the
17th, if memory serves yep sothis was before that.
So, um, even on a sunday, ourdetectives are working.
We're here, uh, theyimmediately sprung into what the
(02:39):
heck is this right?
So we get this tip from, fromcrime stoppers, our, our
analysts and our detectives findout um kareem hussein, where he
lives, name, rank, horsepower,and then we're able to find out
that the video was posted bygarth, and what platform and ip
(02:59):
address, and, and so we're ableto quickly identify both of them
.
Um, immediately go out, makecontact, and then you start
looking at what is it?
It appears to be a crime.
I mean no kidding.
So what relevant crimes do youhave?
And the most relevant one wehave is the written or
electronically communicatedthreats, threats and the statute
(03:23):
for that was born out of schoolshootings throughout the
country but, in particularParkland Florida, with Marjory
Stoneman Douglas High School,which prompted legislation, the
Marjory Stoneman Douglas Act,which is why we have SROs in
every, every school.
that's why everybody doesthroughout the state, from the
elementary level all the way upto high school.
(03:45):
There's numbers so up under athousand students, you have one.
If you have over a thousand,it's two.
If you hit over 2000, it'sthree.
You know different triggers inlegislation.
There's also a Florida's versionof a red flag law which is
called a risk protection orderor RPO.
We've had a lot of success withthat since its inception.
(04:08):
So one of the statutes thatcame about was this written
threat or electronicallycommunicated threat, and
typically that statute wasintended for.
I believe when the lawmakersdid that, they acted very
quickly with good intentions.
It's difficult in government torapidly employ a law because
(04:33):
you're going to have a lot ofthings that fall through the
cracks or situations that youcan't envision at the time.
But the true intent and spiritof that law was for students who
were making threats aboutshooting up their own schools.
That's a lot of the data showsthat that's what you have.
You do have cases where formerstudents come back, in really
rare circumstances, somebody notaffiliated with the school will
(04:55):
do that.
You'll have domestic violencesituations with teachers and
staff that spill over.
We had that at a daycare manyyears ago, where you have a
shooting at a school, it's notthe one you envision in your
head of a bullied student whohas access to guns and rings.
So that's what the law kind oftailors to is that this is not,
(05:16):
that.
This was somebody completelyunaffiliated with the school.
So we had to really dive intothat statute and make sure that
it's going to work, becausethese are also a lot of what
you'd call a sole operator orsingle person comes up with the
threat, writes the threat andleaves it at the school,
electronically posts a threateither by word or by video, you
(05:40):
know, and they are the one thatdo it all self-contained.
This was not.
This was somebody in the bardistrict of downtown Fort Myers.
Later we found out wasintoxicated.
No excuse, no problem with that,but says this very specific,
vile, scary, threateningintention, and then Mr Garth
(06:04):
films it and then posts it.
So as we're reading the statute, we're like this is tricky,
because this guy doesn't meetthe definition.
Now, if you act outside of astate statute, you make an
arrest for a charge and youdon't meet all of the elements,
or you go outside of the fourcorners of that law, that's a
bad arrest.
Are there any other statutesthat would do that?
(06:26):
Some people have thought well,what about assault?
Assault is threatening somebody,but the element of assault has
to be readily able to do it.
Meaning you and I are prettyclose, about arm's length close,
and if I'm showing signs thatI'm pretty upset with you and I
say I'm going to hit you, that'sa threat and I'm close enough
(06:48):
to do it.
Right now, immediate, I can doit.
I'm going to do somethingreally stupid or vile or heinous
.
Or if I'm on the phone and I'min St Louis, missouri, when I
get to Florida, I'm going toslap you right in the face.
That's not an assault, becauseI'm not there, I'm not able to
(07:10):
really do it.
So there's a million differentstatutes, it could not be.
So we're not going to gothrough all of those.
That was one of them.
Why not that?
So why didn't he meet theelements of Florida state
statute 83610, which is thethreat threat of mass shootings,
mass violence?
He made the comments period,didn't write them, didn't post
them.
It wasn't his channel, he'sjust being a jerk.
(07:32):
To be honest with you, garthtook it, videoed it and then
took the conscious step to goahead and post it.
That meets the elements of it.
So these guys are we got to getthese guys right for doing
something like that.
Our kids are the most preciouspeople that we have in the city.
It's a priority for thedepartment.
So we met that element forGarth.
(07:56):
It's tricky with Hussein.
So we engage the stateattorney's office, we work with
them.
We don't just act independently, make arrests and shoot it over
there and then hey, you knowyour job your turn Right.
We don't do that.
That's not what a partnershipis.
So, especially on cases thatare a little tricky, a little
nuanced in the statute, weengage them early.
Where are we at?
What do you guys think?
(08:17):
Is this a case that you couldprosecute and win?
So we communicated our beliefin the interpretation of the
statute and the very talentedprosecutors that we work with.
A lot said, as bad as it is,take the emotion out of it.
You're right, it doesn't meetit for Hussein.
You're not able to do that.
Now, when you're told by yourprosecuting partners that it
(08:41):
doesn't meet it, we cannotprosecute it.
We arrest them.
You can't act or arrest peopleon emotion.
Well, it should be.
So you're going to jail forthat.
We don't work that way.
They would get arrested, theywould go to first appearance.
The judge would read thecharges and go this doesn't fit.
And, as a matter of fact, youhad counsel from the state
(09:03):
attorney's office that said itdoesn't fit.
You did it anyway.
The guy's gone, he's kicked out, dismissed, and then there's
going to be sanctions against usand then Hussein now has action
against the police departmentor anybody that's arrested for a
willfully wrong charge.
You just don't.
That's not what we're here for,but we're in a solutions
(09:23):
business.
So what can you do?
There is a statute.
It's a misdemeanor, but it'sthe one that we have available
to us.
It's called disruption of aschool function.
The typical application of thatcharge would be a fight at the
school where they're mutualcombatants.
You don't have a battery, youget an affray at the school.
You have a school bus pulledover because the kids are going
(09:47):
crazy and impeding the driver.
You've had situations like that.
That's disruption of a schoolfunction.
You can have it at off-schoolevents.
You can have it at footballgames or soccer games.
It's a misdemeanor chargethat's at your disposal.
With a misdemeanor, you have towitness it happening.
There are certain exceptions,like domestic violence et cetera
(10:09):
.
There's a handful ofmisdemeanor exceptions that
charge is not.
So we made the threat back onthe 5th.
It was posted, we became awareof it on the 13th and then on
the 17th is when he wassupposedly going to do this act.
So on the 17th a lot of parentsheld their kids out of school.
(10:31):
Totally get it.
I mean, it's not something youmess around with.
So Garth had already beenarrested for the charge of
communicating a threat of massviolence, because he's the one
who willfully decided to do thatand strike fear into everybody.
Hussein had not and he had notbeen charged at this point, but
on the 17th, a large percentageof students were kept out of
(10:54):
class by their parents.
We were there to witness thathappening and by witnessing that
act, that was a disruption ofthe school's normal function.
That's the way we stretched toapply it.
We communicated with the state.
They said you know what thatactually fits, and then we were
able to arrest Hussein for that.
Is it the threat of massviolence?
(11:17):
Arrest?
No, it's not.
I wish we could have.
I honestly do.
There's there's what I believeto be a hole in the law.
Uh, I don't think it wasintentional by the lawmakers at
the time when they did it.
I think they were acting um ona very omnibus bill to try to
help with the situation.
Another element of that was thered flag law.
(11:37):
So those statements that hemade very concerning enough for
us to go and apply the riskprotection order red flag for
layman's terms.
So we go to court, you petitiona judge with all of the
evidence that you have and allthe information that you have,
and the judge granted thetemporary RPO or risk protection
(12:00):
order.
We then went to Hussein's homeand all of his firearms are in
our possession pending anotherhearing.
So the law on that is everyyear you have to reapply that
the person is eitherrehabilitated or that's really
for the courts to decide.
So the tools at our disposalwere 83610, florida statute for
(12:23):
communicating a mass threat onGarth.
He was arrested for that.
A red flag or a risk protectionorder on Mr Hussein was applied
for, granted and enacted.
We did that and then, when wewitnessed the disruption of a
school function, clearly basedupon his comments, that was our
(12:43):
way to complete the circuit, ifyou will, and arrest Mr Hussein.
So that's why, right, and ittook me how long to explain all
right.
Yeah, we're already 13 minutesin right and we do that for a
living and we work withprofessionals for a living on
the very nuanced application ofthe law.
(13:06):
There's another thing in thelaw called case law, where you
can read the statute, but onceit's an arrest has been made or
worked its way through the courtsystem, there are certain court
decisions that come down aboutthat law that are called case
law, and then they apply toeverybody.
So you have the statute, thenyou have other layers on top, so
there's a lot to it.
(13:28):
So you can pick up a statutebook and read it.
And why isn't it this?
Well, there's something calledcase law.
There's something called thestandard that attorneys have to
have to ethically and legallyprosecute a case, and you just
simply can't prosecute a case ormake an arrest on a case where
it doesn't meet the statute.
So that's why I get the anger.
(13:48):
I'm angry at those two.
It's the stupidest thing thatyou could do in today's climate.
Then we had the incident atFlorida State just recently, on
the heels of really what's sadlybecome a weekly thing for
shootings in this country.
I think it's horrible.
And to do it saying that youlike dark humor or shock value,
(14:11):
it's just Just to.
I got to watch my language onthe podcast and we'll get a
warning label Irresponsible,absolutely.
And I get being furious at thembecause I am too.
I get the fear as a parent.
I get the.
It's something that I have.
A million things that I worryabout every day in my
professional life, and one ofthose is keeping the school safe
(14:33):
.
We have a lot of campuses acrossour city.
We're a big city, you know,seventh largest, one of the
biggest school districts in thestate of Florida, which is the
third biggest state in thecountry.
We have 27 campuses that wepatrol.
It's a lot.
You know, our SRO unit of allthe SROs and the supervisors are
(14:54):
bigger than the average policedepartment in this country.
So we are really committed tothe average police department in
this country.
Wow, so we are really committedto the schools.
So I get that and I get theconfusion.
Why wouldn't that do it?
Because when a law is congruentwith common sense, it's nice
and easy.
There are times when a law andcommon sense part ways, and I
(15:16):
think this is one of those.
So what do you do at this point?
Blame us.
I can't blame us because we didit correct.
Obviously, you blame theperpetrators, but that's the
business Perpetrators going toperpetrate.
Right, you blame the stateattorney's office?
Absolutely not.
They did their job and we workwith them every day.
(15:39):
They're they're the best.
Um, the lawmakers, they, theydid the best that they could
with expedient action.
Right, we always get mad at ourlawmakers for not taking action
.
They did.
They just couldn't envisioneverything that could happen.
So now we're starting to hone inon where we go and we have a
great relationship with ourlocal representative who's in
(16:01):
the Florida House ofRepresentatives.
He represents Cape Coral.
He's a Mariner High School grad.
His name is Mike Gialombardo.
I'm on a Mike-Tony basis withhim and I called him on Saturday
when you told me that there wassome confusion.
I said there's work to be done.
So I called Mike and Mike and Ihad a conversation.
Or, representative Gio Lombardo, we had a conversation and he
(16:22):
goes.
I've seen it.
I saw the video.
I'm familiar with the case.
Absolutely.
He's in session now up inTallahassee doing all of our
work right now and we are goingto start the process of finding
a way to close that loophole.
I had a conversation this weekwith Jason Fields, the chief of
(16:42):
Fort Myers.
I talked to the sheriff.
He even out of state.
He and I talked because it'snear and dear to deeper
conversation about rallying allof our local law enforcement
leaders to work with ourrepresentatives in Tallahassee
(17:04):
to show that this is serious.
The city manager has workedwith the city's lobbying firm in
Tallahassee to say, hey, thepolice chief has got this, throw
the weight of the citygovernment behind it when this
thing starts rolling.
I belong to the Florida PoliceChiefs Association, which is a
network of Florida police chiefs, and we talk about legislation
(17:26):
and lobbying and getting thingslike this, where we identify in
the course of our daily dutiesan opportunity to make something
better.
And I've engaged the FloridaPolice Chiefs Association to
also throw our weight behind itin Tallahassee.
So everybody's been heard,everybody's been understood.
We were saying it right alongwith you, and that's the action
(17:49):
that we're taking, movingforward.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Absolutely.
You know, I know you don't.
You're not on Facebook, so ofcourse I go through some of the
comments and just seeing so manycomments of wow, the Cape Coral
police department reallyscrewed this one up and this,
and that you know, and I'mjumping in and trying to explain
.
It is the Cape Coral policedepartment's job to enforce the
law, to know the law inside andout and enforce it accordingly.
(18:13):
It is not our job to create thelaw.
It's the same thing with oh,we've seen so many car accidents
at X and Y streets.
Why isn't there a traffic light?
Come on, Cape Coral PoliceDepartment.
It's the same thing.
It's not our job to put atraffic light there.
Once a traffic light is there,we can enforce that.
If you're running a red light,we're going to pull you over and
(18:34):
give you a ticket, but it's notour job for that.
So I think this is helpful inclearing that up, and not only
are we doing what we can when itcomes to the parameters of the
law, we're taking it a stepfurther by engaging our leaders.
Hey, this is a loophole.
We're dealing with it here.
Now that this has happened, itcould become more common.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
Let's close this loophole, Right that's the part
I'm most proud of.
I know uh, you said itperfectly that we enforce what's
on the books.
It would be easy, and I'm surethere are some places throughout
the country that would you know.
That's it we right.
We only do what we're allowed todo, you know, call your
legislator or deal with it.
I'm very proud of this agencyand of our surrounding agencies
(19:17):
that we don't do that.
We don't wipe our hands of itand say, hey, that's the brakes.
No, we found it or weexperienced it.
Now what are we going to do?
It's like if you're at your homeor your workplace and somebody
left trash on the floor.
How many times are you going tostep over that before you pick
it up and put it in the garbage?
Fix it, don't just.
(19:37):
Well, I didn't throw it there,right?
No, it doesn't work like that.
We're all working together topick up something that has
fallen and put it back where itneeds to be, and that's what
we're doing legislatively isworking to make it safer for
everybody.
So hopefully, people don't dothings like that.
But we have a job becausepeople do things like that.
(19:58):
So when they do, we want tohave the right tools to be able
to hold people accountable tothe rest of society who are
doing it right.
Exactly, perpetrator is goingto perpetrate.
That's a good one right.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
It is.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Maybe a shirt.
Perfect, we'll start sellingmerch Anything else, chief, I
really think that that helpskind of clear it up for anyone
who isn't on social media andmaybe didn't see your message
there.
I think it's good that we brokeit down.
Sure, yeah, I feel good aboutthat one Coming up.
In about two weeks it's PoliceMemorial Week or National Police
(20:31):
Week, so I think next weekmaybe we'll do a little chat
about that.
Perfect Little tease.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
We're letting the people know what's coming.
They'll be on the edge of theirseats.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
I bet.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Well, thank you so much, Chief.
I appreciate it, and thank youagain for listening and watching
and joining us, and we will seeyou next week.
Have a good one.
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