August 22, 2025 • 20 mins
What does it really take to become a police leader? In this episode of the Cape CopCast 'Chief's Chat,' we pull back the curtain on the Cape Coral Police Department's comprehensive promotional process that recently elevated eleven officers to new leadership positions as sergeants and lieutenants.
Far from the arbitrary selection that many might imagine, Chief Sizemore walks us through the meticulous, multi-month journey candidates undertake—studying Florida statutes, department policies, city ordinances, and leadership principles before facing a gauntlet of assessments. The process combines written tests, simulated roll calls, scenario-based interviews, and practical exercises designed to identify not just knowledgeable officers, but true leaders who can make sound decisions under pressure.
Most fascinating is the "Rule of Eight" system that allows department leadership to select from among top candidates based on specific needs rather than rigid numerical rankings. As the Chief explains, it's about finding "square pegs for square holes"—matching the right officer to the right position through collaborative decision-making with command staff who observe candidates' daily performance. The resulting promotions create a cascade effect throughout the department, with nearly 50 position changes as officers move up and into specialty units.
We also discuss the department's continuous recruitment efforts and data-driven approach to staffing through "Project 35," which has already yielded impressive crime reduction results despite budget challenges. At around 500 employees and growing, the department operates like what Chief Sizemore calls "a cruise ship—a giant, big, slow-moving vessel with a lot of stuff happening on all these different decks."
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Welcome back to another episode of the Cape
Copcast Chiefs Chat Edition.
I'm one of your hosts, LisaGreenberg.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Officer Mercedes Simons.
Together we have Chief AnthonySizemore.
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Good to see you how you doing.
I'm doing great how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm good.
It's been a busy week.
It's been busy these lastcouple weeks.
We've been talking a lot aboutour promotions.
It's been promotional season.
Our lieutenants and sergeantswere up for grabs.
This time we were trying tohire a whole bunch more in place
and they have a lengthypromotional, not just test, but
they have a long time to studybefore it to prepare.
They'll read books, they'llread state statute, they'll
(00:41):
cover a lot of our generalorders and things like that to
get ready.
And it's not just a little bitof material, it's a lot of
material, which is why we givethem such a great extended
period of time to study.
But this last week we were ableto complete that test.
There is a written test andthen you have scenarios after if
you pass that and we had ourselection.
(01:02):
So through the sergeant's examwe were able to hire six
sergeants, and then thelieutenant's is more of an oral
board, but we were able to hirefive of them.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Right, and just one little clarification we didn't
hire any.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We promoted, so all of our candidates come from
within.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
You have to work for the Cape Corp Police Department,
cut your teeth here and gainyour experience and then you get
promoted within.
The hiring will come down thechain, on the backfill, for the
line level officers that move upinto sergeant.
So the voids will be on theline level.
We will hire them.
But these are internalpromotions.
A little difference, but it'san important distinction.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It's been busy.
That's why I said it's beenbusy.
There's been a lot of changeand I think, as someone who's
new to all of this, this is thefirst time I've really seen this
process play out.
I thought it would beinteresting to have you on today
to kind of talk about thatprocess because, like Mercedes
said, it's not something wherewe just say, oh, we want Jerry
to be a Lieutenant, so we'rejust going to pick them and he's
our lieutenant and that's itdone, deal.
(02:02):
It's a lengthy process.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
You're correct.
We don't have the ability tojust go pick our favorites or
punish those that we don'tnecessarily want to go have
dinner with, right.
So there's two reasons for thatit benefits the employee and it
benefits the agency.
It's not good for thedepartment to have one person
that would be me who'sultimately accountable, even
though it's a collaborativeprocess.
(02:25):
We'll talk about that.
But it would be a bad state ofaffairs if I just had the
ability to walk around and go.
You and you, we have a goodtime doing the podcast, so
you're going to be a sergeant,and that's not good for the
department.
Like we said it's not good forthe employees because there's
other employees that aregrinding and building their
resume and positioningthemselves to advance and they
(02:47):
are protected by a collectivebargaining agreement or CBA or
union contract or however youwant to say it, and we have
mutually agreed uponstipulations for how a promotion
is to go.
That gives, I'll say me, butit's the management side.
It gives me the freedom to pickthe best person that I and my
(03:08):
staff believe is ready withinthe parameters of the CBA.
That says, but you can onlypick from the people who have
achieved these mutually agreedupon steps.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yes, absolutely Okay, and it's great.
One of the things we don't justchoose people who are smart, we
also choose people based offleadership qualities, which is
why we've talked a little bitabout the books.
We integrate in books that haveleadership fundamentals,
specific leadership skills thatyou can integrate into your
style as a sergeant, lieutenant,wherever you end up going in
the department.
(03:39):
And those questions are also onthe test that we give, the
written test that we had talkedabout.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Right.
So there's study material thatseveral months back we provided
to anybody that's eligible totake the test.
So you have to be a sergeant,you have to be on the department
for five years continuous andyou have to have different
(04:05):
educational requirements, go tocertain schools so you get
eligible to put your name in thehat.
So we'll have a meeting withall of those eligible candidates
and provide them with a studylist.
And it's not a big mystery whatthe study list is.
It's Florida state statutes,it's our general orders and SOPs
, or standard operatingprocedures, the rule book, if
you will, the union contract,specific articles of it that
(04:29):
deal with a supervisor dealingwith an employee about moving
their schedule and overtime andthings like that.
It's for the make sure thatthey know what they're doing, so
they're applying the rightjudgment to protect the employee
.
City ordinances, because theydon't fall under state statute.
But you have noise ordinance,parking violations, Some of the
common ones that happen here inthe Cape, that in night shift on
(04:51):
a weekend when there's noadministrative people here.
You have to know that, or atleast know where to look when
you, when you get that.
And then we you're right, wehave incorporated some corporate
leadership books.
They're not L, E or lawenforcement specific.
There is some, but on thereading list there are others
that are commonly used incorporate America too.
(05:12):
That are general leadershipconcepts and we derive questions
from those too.
So you get a more well-roundedperson that's not just reciting
or remembering and regurgitatingstatutes and general orders,
but they also know concepts ofleadership.
That's the written test.
So all of that material that weprovided for them.
(05:33):
We have a company that comes inand administers the test.
They write it for us and wetell them we want X percentage
of the job is knowing statute,so X percentage of the job is
knowing statute.
So X percentage of the writtentest should incorporate state
statute and general orders andleadership concepts, et cetera.
And we come up with a100-question test and the first
(05:54):
step in the process is thewritten test and you take it and
you must get a passing score.
It gets scored by a 90, an 84,83, but you have to meet a
minimum threshold to move on.
So if you don't meet that,that's the end of your journey.
You go back to work and you tryit again the next time.
(06:15):
But for those who pass, youmove on to the next step.
And the next step is anassessment center.
So we'll do a mock roll callwhere you are given a list of
topics and you simulate briefing, a new shift oncoming, to see
if you have command presence,knowledge of what you're talking
about, the ability toprioritize the information and
(06:39):
teach.
Those are micro classrooms,those roll calls at every shift
to show do you have the chops todo that?
Then, after that that's scored,there's an editing exercise
where you edit paperwork andknow what's supposed to… you
know, be correct and what's not.
That's a big component of thejob.
(07:01):
And then there is ascenario-based panel interview
where you're sitting there inthe hot seat and there's a panel
of outside people assessors inlaw enforcement that we bring in
and they ask you a series ofquestions that are
scenario-based.
So if you're the sergeant andthis happens, walk us through
(07:21):
that and you don't just tell astory.
You say what you would do andyou cite your training, your
experience, and it's anopportunity for you to highlight
your knowledge of I would dothis action and why would I do
this action?
Because that is what is in ourSOP, so it shows that you know
the SOP.
It shows that you know thestatute, so that you're legal
(07:44):
and you're within our policy andit's your time to shine.
And that gets scored as well.
So they measure command,presence, knowledge, did you
make the right choice?
Did you do the right thing?
And all of those things arescored together the written test
, the role play there's anemployee counseling session
that's part of a role play.
(08:04):
That's scored.
It's a very, very comprehensivegauntlet of a process and at
the end you get points for timeand grade how long have you been
here?
What educational opportunitieshave you done above the minimum
requirement?
And all of that is formulatedinto a score and then we get a
ranking.
All of that is formulated intoa score and then we get a
ranking.
Now the ranking is where theFraternal Order of Police
(08:26):
Collective Bargaining Agreementcomes in.
We have mutually agreed uponthat.
Anybody in that first group ofeight is.
Picture them swirling around.
They're not ranked one througheight, they're all equally able
to be grabbed.
So you grab we had six.
You grab one.
(08:46):
Promotion the person that was.
It's a rule of eight, right?
So eight names are swirlingaround.
You pick one and promote them.
We'll talk about how we do that.
Then number nine comes into thatswirling globe of names and you
pick the best, most qualifiedcandidate for the job that's
open and you roll like that andit's a one.
(09:09):
Reevaluate the landscape, whatposition is open?
Who would be the best fit?
I call it square pegs andsquare holes, right, and we do
that very methodical, meticulous, and I find, and we have found,
that it's a lot better thanwhat used to be done of.
You get a solid, hard rank andyou go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
(09:31):
They may not be the best squarepeg for the square hole that's
open.
So resume comes into play.
Seniority is a component.
None of these are a decidingfactor but they're all
ingredients of a stew to pickthe right person.
And then that person isselected.
(09:51):
So Mercedes is selected and shewould be the best fit for
patrol.
So we would put you into patrol.
And then Lisa would come intothe fold with all these other
names, and then there's anopening in school resource
officer.
Well, you may not be the bestfit for that.
Another name would be the most,most qualified person.
We pick them and put them in,so it's a combination of ranking
(10:15):
and then eligibility or or the,the ability to pick from the
top eight.
It's a very long, arduous butscientific and intentional
process to get the right people.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, it's important.
Yeah, within this promotionalprocess, who all did you sit
down with to decide who youwanted for different spots?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Ah, good question.
So we talked about before.
I'm not the king walking aroundwith my scepter.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Your scepter.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I have a big conference room with a great big
white dry erase board.
So we put all of the candidatesthat are eligible to be
selected on the left.
We had lieutenants at the sametime.
It's a different process forthem, a little bit less.
I won't get into it, it's just.
It's more of a scenario-basedinterview and delving into your
leadership style.
(11:04):
So they're on the right andthen we take the entire
organization and write out askeleton of a roster and then
put names of who's there withour vacancies.
And we have vacancies fromretirements, people moved up
into acting roles and now's thetime to fill them permanently
and we have new growth.
So when new budgetary growthcomes in, there's a combination
(11:27):
of those two factors forvacancies and we put them in red
.
And then, without promotinganybody, you take our existing
people who have been doing thejob and earning the right to be
able to transfer or buildingtheir own resume, and put them
into the right spot, the rightspot for the agency to thrive
right now a win right now modebut also to position them to
(11:50):
gain experience so that they arebetter prepared to move up.
So there's a lot of factorsthat go in and then we start
doing the where's the hole?
There's a vacancy right here.
Who is the best candidate tofill that vacancy?
And then we move that way.
And when I say we it's I am moreof a facilitator of the process
(12:12):
, because the higher I go andthe longer I've been at a high
level, the least amount ofdirect contact I have with their
work style.
I see a lot of the end result,but I don't see the day-to-day.
So I rely on the people who dosee the day-to-day.
So we have the deputy chiefs.
Our chief of staff is in there,all of the bureau commanders or
(12:33):
captains are in there and theybring the day-to-day knowledge
and input of A what do I wantfor my bureau or my area?
Who do I want to get?
And then, who has worked for methat has demonstrated these
capabilities that would positionthem to move up and move around
?
So it's a very collaborativeprocess with our leadership team
to get the right people,because these are decisions that
(12:55):
impact a generation at thepolice department and if you
make the wrong one you couldreally have some bad
consequences.
I am very fortunate that thelists that we have do not
contain a quote-unquote bad one.
If you make it through thatprocess, you would do well it's.
Did we not take the best one?
(13:16):
Did we not position them forsuccess?
Not only for them individually,but does that click and make
the machine run better?
Because it's not just oneindividual or one pick.
We are a 500-personorganization that's growing
every day, every year, with highexpectations, and that is the
exercise that you do to ensurethat you're delivering on those
(13:38):
high expectations to thecommunity kind of behind the
curtain, work that shows themthe production that they want to
see.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, and so when people see coming up our
pictures from the promotionalceremony they'll kind of know
all of the work that went intothe background of getting that
done.
And of course, as people moveup, that leaves vacancies at the
bottom level that we need tohire for.
And I think that people don'trealize we're constantly, you
know, hiring.
It's not like, oh, we open thisup and only one time of the
(14:05):
year we hire a bunch of people.
There is a it's a constantprocess in the background where
we are making sure that when wehave openings they're being
filled.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
That's correct.
We have a continuous open jobposting all year long.
It's the only way to recruitand to attract and onboard and
keep this train moving.
We, like I said, we're almost a500 person organization and
continuing to grow.
You any industry.
You factor in a certainpercentage of attrition.
(14:34):
Natural people leaving theorganization, retiring, finding
out it's not for them findingbetter opportunities for, you
know, maybe they don't want tobe in law enforcement or in a
professional staff side wouldget a different job within the
city.
So you have to factor in aboutan 8% to 10% attrition rate.
So you need to hire about 8% to10% of your overall workforce
(14:58):
in general.
Then you throw on growth and weare a growing community.
So you can start to see thenumbers that we onboard a lot of
people.
So we have a full-time.
We call it the ProfessionalStandards Bureau because they
deal with a lot of other things,but one of their components is
hiring.
So they are our own HRdepartment and it's full-time
and it's full speed.
(15:18):
So you're right, we justpromoted six sergeants to fill
vacancies.
In October, when the new budgetkicks in, we still need three
new sergeants right off the batand one lieutenant because of
the growth and that's part ofthat process that we've been
working on for a really longtime.
(15:39):
So this list is still valid forthat and we can quickly promote
and then backfill.
And then on top of that, wehave new budgeted positions for
police officer, because we arebehind.
We talked about that.
We've had great success withour crime stat numbers.
We talked about that.
That's a direct result of the Idon't know how many episodes
(16:01):
ago we talked about Project 35,our scientific data-driven
methodology to determine howmany cops we need, and it
determined that we were behind.
So we already had a veryaggressive posture for hiring,
but it was not aggressive enoughand we stepped on it.
We have a great collaborativerelationship with finance, city
management and our electedofficials who represent the
(16:23):
people, and we all want morecops to make it better and we
got that and you see the results.
We bared the fruit of that very, very quickly.
But we need to maintain thatposture and in October it is a
bit of a reduction of what weasked for, but we're able to
(16:45):
maintain it because we believethis economic condition is going
to be a short blip.
So we're able to do our part.
Our scientific, you know,deployments and technology
advents are helping us with that.
It's not a long-term solution.
We're not going to bepositioned to take a reduction
on what we need.
To take a reduction on what weneed.
That's the deal, so to speak,that I made with my boss, the
(17:07):
city manager, and therelationship I have with our
elected officials is needs overwants.
Everybody would love to go inthere with a group list of wants
.
I don't have time for that.
They don't have the time forthat.
We need to go with needs.
So I provide them with ascientific-backed, data-driven
list of needs to meet theexpectations, or exceed them,
(17:32):
that our community has.
These are my needs and you see,when the needs are met, the
success that we have Now.
It's nobody's fault.
They have their job and Itotally understand it and I'm a
team player with it.
But we did have to come off ofour needs a little bit.
But we will be back foot on thegas as soon as we're able, and
even in a reduction.
(17:52):
A big reduction for us is stillonboarding new people, if that
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean this.
Everybody was kind of on theedge of their seat for the last
couple of weeks, becausepromotions are a really exciting
time, because even like I, I'mnot promoting but I was really
interested to see what happens,because it's not just moving.
You know, five, five or sixpeople into place, they move,
and then you have, say, we havea one of our SVU detectives, she
(18:20):
, she got promoted into asergeant role, so now patrols
excited, or whoever else from aspecialty unit now they can put
in for that spot.
So it creates a lot moreopenings, a lot more movement
and everybody kind of getsexcited because you had, you can
change stuff around a littlebit.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Six sergeants, five lieutenants, that's 11 moves.
Yep, but that's only the firstdomino.
By the time this list isexpired and we've promoted
everybody and backfilledeverybody and reshuffled the
voids, like you mentioned, anSVU detective moves in there, it
could be somebody from patrolright to SVU, it could be a
property crime detective movesover and there's a spot for
(18:58):
somebody and you multiply thatthroughout the department.
I think we were up to like 40s,almost 50 moves.
Very exciting time for thepolice department.
Always call us the cruise shipbecause it's a giant, big,
slow-moving vessel with a lot ofstuff happening on all these
different decks.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And we're just chugging along.
That's it.
We are Well awesome, Chief,Anything else.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
I'm out of gas.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, that was.
I think you did a good jobexplaining so people understand
the entirety of the process.
So we appreciate you coming ontoday and we appreciate everyone
listening.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Stay safe, have a good one.
Welcome back to another episode of the Cape
Copcast Chiefs Chat Edition.
I'm one of your hosts, LisaGreenberg.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
And I'm Officer Mercedes Simons.
Together we have Chief AnthonySizemore.
Welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Good morning.
Speaker 1 (00:16):
Good to see you how you doing.
I'm doing great how are you?
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I'm good.
It's been a busy week.
It's been busy these lastcouple weeks.
We've been talking a lot aboutour promotions.
It's been promotional season.
Our lieutenants and sergeantswere up for grabs.
This time we were trying tohire a whole bunch more in place
and they have a lengthypromotional, not just test, but
they have a long time to studybefore it to prepare.
They'll read books, they'llread state statute, they'll
(00:41):
cover a lot of our generalorders and things like that to
get ready.
And it's not just a little bitof material, it's a lot of
material, which is why we givethem such a great extended
period of time to study.
But this last week we were ableto complete that test.
There is a written test andthen you have scenarios after if
you pass that and we had ourselection.
(01:02):
So through the sergeant's examwe were able to hire six
sergeants, and then thelieutenant's is more of an oral
board, but we were able to hirefive of them.
Speaker 3 (01:11):
Right, and just one little clarification we didn't
hire any.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
We promoted, so all of our candidates come from
within.
Speaker 3 (01:18):
You have to work for the Cape Corp Police Department,
cut your teeth here and gainyour experience and then you get
promoted within.
The hiring will come down thechain, on the backfill, for the
line level officers that move upinto sergeant.
So the voids will be on theline level.
We will hire them.
But these are internalpromotions.
A little difference, but it'san important distinction.
Speaker 1 (01:41):
It's been busy.
That's why I said it's beenbusy.
There's been a lot of changeand I think, as someone who's
new to all of this, this is thefirst time I've really seen this
process play out.
I thought it would beinteresting to have you on today
to kind of talk about thatprocess because, like Mercedes
said, it's not something wherewe just say, oh, we want Jerry
to be a Lieutenant, so we'rejust going to pick them and he's
our lieutenant and that's itdone, deal.
(02:02):
It's a lengthy process.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
You're correct.
We don't have the ability tojust go pick our favorites or
punish those that we don'tnecessarily want to go have
dinner with, right.
So there's two reasons for thatit benefits the employee and it
benefits the agency.
It's not good for thedepartment to have one person
that would be me who'sultimately accountable, even
though it's a collaborativeprocess.
(02:25):
We'll talk about that.
But it would be a bad state ofaffairs if I just had the
ability to walk around and go.
You and you, we have a goodtime doing the podcast, so
you're going to be a sergeant,and that's not good for the
department.
Like we said it's not good forthe employees because there's
other employees that aregrinding and building their
resume and positioningthemselves to advance and they
(02:47):
are protected by a collectivebargaining agreement or CBA or
union contract or however youwant to say it, and we have
mutually agreed uponstipulations for how a promotion
is to go.
That gives, I'll say me, butit's the management side.
It gives me the freedom to pickthe best person that I and my
(03:08):
staff believe is ready withinthe parameters of the CBA.
That says, but you can onlypick from the people who have
achieved these mutually agreedupon steps.
Does that make sense?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
Yes, absolutely Okay, and it's great.
One of the things we don't justchoose people who are smart, we
also choose people based offleadership qualities, which is
why we've talked a little bitabout the books.
We integrate in books that haveleadership fundamentals,
specific leadership skills thatyou can integrate into your
style as a sergeant, lieutenant,wherever you end up going in
the department.
(03:39):
And those questions are also onthe test that we give, the
written test that we had talkedabout.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Right.
So there's study material thatseveral months back we provided
to anybody that's eligible totake the test.
So you have to be a sergeant,you have to be on the department
for five years continuous andyou have to have different
(04:05):
educational requirements, go tocertain schools so you get
eligible to put your name in thehat.
So we'll have a meeting withall of those eligible candidates
and provide them with a studylist.
And it's not a big mystery whatthe study list is.
It's Florida state statutes,it's our general orders and SOPs
, or standard operatingprocedures, the rule book, if
you will, the union contract,specific articles of it that
(04:29):
deal with a supervisor dealingwith an employee about moving
their schedule and overtime andthings like that.
It's for the make sure thatthey know what they're doing, so
they're applying the rightjudgment to protect the employee
.
City ordinances, because theydon't fall under state statute.
But you have noise ordinance,parking violations, Some of the
common ones that happen here inthe Cape, that in night shift on
(04:51):
a weekend when there's noadministrative people here.
You have to know that, or atleast know where to look when
you, when you get that.
And then we you're right, wehave incorporated some corporate
leadership books.
They're not L, E or lawenforcement specific.
There is some, but on thereading list there are others
that are commonly used incorporate America too.
(05:12):
That are general leadershipconcepts and we derive questions
from those too.
So you get a more well-roundedperson that's not just reciting
or remembering and regurgitatingstatutes and general orders,
but they also know concepts ofleadership.
That's the written test.
So all of that material that weprovided for them.
(05:33):
We have a company that comes inand administers the test.
They write it for us and wetell them we want X percentage
of the job is knowing statute,so X percentage of the job is
knowing statute.
So X percentage of the writtentest should incorporate state
statute and general orders andleadership concepts, et cetera.
And we come up with a100-question test and the first
(05:54):
step in the process is thewritten test and you take it and
you must get a passing score.
It gets scored by a 90, an 84,83, but you have to meet a
minimum threshold to move on.
So if you don't meet that,that's the end of your journey.
You go back to work and you tryit again the next time.
(06:15):
But for those who pass, youmove on to the next step.
And the next step is anassessment center.
So we'll do a mock roll callwhere you are given a list of
topics and you simulate briefing, a new shift oncoming, to see
if you have command presence,knowledge of what you're talking
about, the ability toprioritize the information and
(06:39):
teach.
Those are micro classrooms,those roll calls at every shift
to show do you have the chops todo that?
Then, after that that's scored,there's an editing exercise
where you edit paperwork andknow what's supposed to… you
know, be correct and what's not.
That's a big component of thejob.
(07:01):
And then there is ascenario-based panel interview
where you're sitting there inthe hot seat and there's a panel
of outside people assessors inlaw enforcement that we bring in
and they ask you a series ofquestions that are
scenario-based.
So if you're the sergeant andthis happens, walk us through
(07:21):
that and you don't just tell astory.
You say what you would do andyou cite your training, your
experience, and it's anopportunity for you to highlight
your knowledge of I would dothis action and why would I do
this action?
Because that is what is in ourSOP, so it shows that you know
the SOP.
It shows that you know thestatute, so that you're legal
(07:44):
and you're within our policy andit's your time to shine.
And that gets scored as well.
So they measure command,presence, knowledge, did you
make the right choice?
Did you do the right thing?
And all of those things arescored together the written test
, the role play there's anemployee counseling session
that's part of a role play.
(08:04):
That's scored.
It's a very, very comprehensivegauntlet of a process and at
the end you get points for timeand grade how long have you been
here?
What educational opportunitieshave you done above the minimum
requirement?
And all of that is formulatedinto a score and then we get a
ranking.
All of that is formulated intoa score and then we get a
ranking.
Now the ranking is where theFraternal Order of Police
(08:26):
Collective Bargaining Agreementcomes in.
We have mutually agreed uponthat.
Anybody in that first group ofeight is.
Picture them swirling around.
They're not ranked one througheight, they're all equally able
to be grabbed.
So you grab we had six.
You grab one.
(08:46):
Promotion the person that was.
It's a rule of eight, right?
So eight names are swirlingaround.
You pick one and promote them.
We'll talk about how we do that.
Then number nine comes into thatswirling globe of names and you
pick the best, most qualifiedcandidate for the job that's
open and you roll like that andit's a one.
(09:09):
Reevaluate the landscape, whatposition is open?
Who would be the best fit?
I call it square pegs andsquare holes, right, and we do
that very methodical, meticulous, and I find, and we have found,
that it's a lot better thanwhat used to be done of.
You get a solid, hard rank andyou go 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.
(09:31):
They may not be the best squarepeg for the square hole that's
open.
So resume comes into play.
Seniority is a component.
None of these are a decidingfactor but they're all
ingredients of a stew to pickthe right person.
And then that person isselected.
(09:51):
So Mercedes is selected and shewould be the best fit for
patrol.
So we would put you into patrol.
And then Lisa would come intothe fold with all these other
names, and then there's anopening in school resource
officer.
Well, you may not be the bestfit for that.
Another name would be the most,most qualified person.
We pick them and put them in,so it's a combination of ranking
(10:15):
and then eligibility or or the,the ability to pick from the
top eight.
It's a very long, arduous butscientific and intentional
process to get the right people.
Speaker 2 (10:28):
Yeah, it's important.
Yeah, within this promotionalprocess, who all did you sit
down with to decide who youwanted for different spots?
Speaker 3 (10:36):
Ah, good question.
So we talked about before.
I'm not the king walking aroundwith my scepter.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Your scepter.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
I have a big conference room with a great big
white dry erase board.
So we put all of the candidatesthat are eligible to be
selected on the left.
We had lieutenants at the sametime.
It's a different process forthem, a little bit less.
I won't get into it, it's just.
It's more of a scenario-basedinterview and delving into your
leadership style.
(11:04):
So they're on the right andthen we take the entire
organization and write out askeleton of a roster and then
put names of who's there withour vacancies.
And we have vacancies fromretirements, people moved up
into acting roles and now's thetime to fill them permanently
and we have new growth.
So when new budgetary growthcomes in, there's a combination
(11:27):
of those two factors forvacancies and we put them in red
.
And then, without promotinganybody, you take our existing
people who have been doing thejob and earning the right to be
able to transfer or buildingtheir own resume, and put them
into the right spot, the rightspot for the agency to thrive
right now a win right now modebut also to position them to
(11:50):
gain experience so that they arebetter prepared to move up.
So there's a lot of factorsthat go in and then we start
doing the where's the hole?
There's a vacancy right here.
Who is the best candidate tofill that vacancy?
And then we move that way.
And when I say we it's I am moreof a facilitator of the process
(12:12):
, because the higher I go andthe longer I've been at a high
level, the least amount ofdirect contact I have with their
work style.
I see a lot of the end result,but I don't see the day-to-day.
So I rely on the people who dosee the day-to-day.
So we have the deputy chiefs.
Our chief of staff is in there,all of the bureau commanders or
(12:33):
captains are in there and theybring the day-to-day knowledge
and input of A what do I wantfor my bureau or my area?
Who do I want to get?
And then, who has worked for methat has demonstrated these
capabilities that would positionthem to move up and move around
?
So it's a very collaborativeprocess with our leadership team
to get the right people,because these are decisions that
(12:55):
impact a generation at thepolice department and if you
make the wrong one you couldreally have some bad
consequences.
I am very fortunate that thelists that we have do not
contain a quote-unquote bad one.
If you make it through thatprocess, you would do well it's.
Did we not take the best one?
(13:16):
Did we not position them forsuccess?
Not only for them individually,but does that click and make
the machine run better?
Because it's not just oneindividual or one pick.
We are a 500-personorganization that's growing
every day, every year, with highexpectations, and that is the
exercise that you do to ensurethat you're delivering on those
(13:38):
high expectations to thecommunity kind of behind the
curtain, work that shows themthe production that they want to
see.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Yeah, and so when people see coming up our
pictures from the promotionalceremony they'll kind of know
all of the work that went intothe background of getting that
done.
And of course, as people moveup, that leaves vacancies at the
bottom level that we need tohire for.
And I think that people don'trealize we're constantly, you
know, hiring.
It's not like, oh, we open thisup and only one time of the
(14:05):
year we hire a bunch of people.
There is a it's a constantprocess in the background where
we are making sure that when wehave openings they're being
filled.
Speaker 3 (14:13):
That's correct.
We have a continuous open jobposting all year long.
It's the only way to recruitand to attract and onboard and
keep this train moving.
We, like I said, we're almost a500 person organization and
continuing to grow.
You any industry.
You factor in a certainpercentage of attrition.
(14:34):
Natural people leaving theorganization, retiring, finding
out it's not for them findingbetter opportunities for, you
know, maybe they don't want tobe in law enforcement or in a
professional staff side wouldget a different job within the
city.
So you have to factor in aboutan 8% to 10% attrition rate.
So you need to hire about 8% to10% of your overall workforce
(14:58):
in general.
Then you throw on growth and weare a growing community.
So you can start to see thenumbers that we onboard a lot of
people.
So we have a full-time.
We call it the ProfessionalStandards Bureau because they
deal with a lot of other things,but one of their components is
hiring.
So they are our own HRdepartment and it's full-time
and it's full speed.
(15:18):
So you're right, we justpromoted six sergeants to fill
vacancies.
In October, when the new budgetkicks in, we still need three
new sergeants right off the batand one lieutenant because of
the growth and that's part ofthat process that we've been
working on for a really longtime.
(15:39):
So this list is still valid forthat and we can quickly promote
and then backfill.
And then on top of that, wehave new budgeted positions for
police officer, because we arebehind.
We talked about that.
We've had great success withour crime stat numbers.
We talked about that.
That's a direct result of the Idon't know how many episodes
(16:01):
ago we talked about Project 35,our scientific data-driven
methodology to determine howmany cops we need, and it
determined that we were behind.
So we already had a veryaggressive posture for hiring,
but it was not aggressive enoughand we stepped on it.
We have a great collaborativerelationship with finance, city
management and our electedofficials who represent the
(16:23):
people, and we all want morecops to make it better and we
got that and you see the results.
We bared the fruit of that very, very quickly.
But we need to maintain thatposture and in October it is a
bit of a reduction of what weasked for, but we're able to
(16:45):
maintain it because we believethis economic condition is going
to be a short blip.
So we're able to do our part.
Our scientific, you know,deployments and technology
advents are helping us with that.
It's not a long-term solution.
We're not going to bepositioned to take a reduction
on what we need.
To take a reduction on what weneed.
That's the deal, so to speak,that I made with my boss, the
(17:07):
city manager, and therelationship I have with our
elected officials is needs overwants.
Everybody would love to go inthere with a group list of wants
.
I don't have time for that.
They don't have the time forthat.
We need to go with needs.
So I provide them with ascientific-backed, data-driven
list of needs to meet theexpectations, or exceed them,
(17:32):
that our community has.
These are my needs and you see,when the needs are met, the
success that we have Now.
It's nobody's fault.
They have their job and Itotally understand it and I'm a
team player with it.
But we did have to come off ofour needs a little bit.
But we will be back foot on thegas as soon as we're able, and
even in a reduction.
(17:52):
A big reduction for us is stillonboarding new people, if that
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (17:57):
Yeah, absolutely.
I mean this.
Everybody was kind of on theedge of their seat for the last
couple of weeks, becausepromotions are a really exciting
time, because even like I, I'mnot promoting but I was really
interested to see what happens,because it's not just moving.
You know, five, five or sixpeople into place, they move,
and then you have, say, we havea one of our SVU detectives, she
(18:20):
, she got promoted into asergeant role, so now patrols
excited, or whoever else from aspecialty unit now they can put
in for that spot.
So it creates a lot moreopenings, a lot more movement
and everybody kind of getsexcited because you had, you can
change stuff around a littlebit.
Speaker 3 (18:37):
Six sergeants, five lieutenants, that's 11 moves.
Yep, but that's only the firstdomino.
By the time this list isexpired and we've promoted
everybody and backfilledeverybody and reshuffled the
voids, like you mentioned, anSVU detective moves in there, it
could be somebody from patrolright to SVU, it could be a
property crime detective movesover and there's a spot for
(18:58):
somebody and you multiply thatthroughout the department.
I think we were up to like 40s,almost 50 moves.
Very exciting time for thepolice department.
Always call us the cruise shipbecause it's a giant, big,
slow-moving vessel with a lot ofstuff happening on all these
different decks.
Speaker 1 (19:16):
And we're just chugging along.
That's it.
We are Well awesome, Chief,Anything else.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
I'm out of gas.
That's it.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Well, that was.
I think you did a good jobexplaining so people understand
the entirety of the process.
So we appreciate you coming ontoday and we appreciate everyone
listening.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2 (19:32):
Stay safe, have a good one.
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