November 10, 2024 • 26 mins
Ever Wonder How Athletes Get 'In The Zone'?
You know those moments when everything just clicks? That's what this week's episode is all about. We're diving into something pretty wild - how the voice in your head actually affects your performance.
Here's the cool bit: it turns out you can reach that sweet spot of 'flow' when your inner chat matches what you're saying and doing on the outside. It's like when all the parts of you are singing the same tune.
Guy opened up about his sporting days, and it's fascinating stuff. He described being 'in the zone' - where time goes all weird and slow, and that usually noisy inner voice just... quiets down. But get this - even though you're running on pure instinct, there's still this part of you that's watching it all happen. Pretty mind-bending, right?
We then got into some really interesting chat about kids and family dynamics. Did you know that kids have this built-in drive to fit in with their family? They'll literally reshape themselves to match whatever labels or expectations their parents put on them.
For all the parents listening - don't worry, we've got your back. We talked through some practical ways to help shape your kids' inner voice positively. Because let's face it, what goes on in their head matters just as much as what comes out of their mouth.
Then things took an interesting turn towards workplace stuff - specifically sick leave policies. You know how some places are like "We trust you, take what you need" while others count every minute? Turns out that trust (or lack of it) really gets under people's skin.
Speaking of which, we looked at what Virgin's doing with their sick leave pool system. They've figured out how to keep everyone happy while building an amazing support network.
The show wrapped up with this incredible story about when Michelle faced breast cancer and how her workplace's sick leave pool became a lifeline. It's one of those stories that really hits home about why these policies matter.
What makes this episode special is how it connects all these dots - from sports to parenting to work culture - showing how that voice in our head shapes pretty much everything we do. Whether you're an athlete, parent, boss, or just someone trying to figure life out, there's something here for you.
Keen to hear more? Give the full episode a listen. Trust us, it's worth your time.
Catch the full episode of The Captain and the Clown Podcast to hear all the juicy details we couldn't fit here.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
G'day leaders. In this podcast, we talk about two things actually. We talk about flow or the zone in sport and the inner monologue and outer monologue and how they contribute to that. And we'll kind of put it all together in this new idea around how you can be your own best friend. Enjoy.
(00:20):
Why do it count backwards? And they that we're now recording.
What? Hello Captain. What do I say?
Come fly with me. Let's fly. Let's fly away.
What are we going to talk about? I don't know. So leadership, life and everything else. Yeah.
(00:43):
And we're live. No, we're recording. We're live in the studio. And in flow. Yes. Yeah, you had some interesting thoughts about flow. I did. I was listening to a podcast at the gym this morning and the presenter and I will look it up actually, who it was, was talking about how the inner story in your mind, the story we tell ourselves, and how we can be our best friend.
(01:13):
And we tell ourselves that it's the first story we hear when we're conscious and born and the last story or the last voice that we'll hear when our time is over on the planet.
Oh, okay. It's interesting. I haven't thought about that. Yeah. So our inner monologue.
And we are the center of our own universe. Yes. But the podcast was mentioning and we were discussing it on the way home that the process of flow, which we've spoken of before when things just work and it seems to be effortless.
(01:46):
You're in flow, whether it be in sport or work or personal life. And the presenters reasoning for this was that the inner monologue aligns with the outer monologue.
So the outer monologue being the goal where you're heading or the reality.
So he gave an example of when you are not putting yourself down, for example, that how you speak to a colleague, how you speak to a loved one, family member, and you're encouraging and pointing out the good parts of what they've done.
(02:24):
They may not have done well, but you know, you emphasize the positive. And when that is aligned with what's happening externally, you can feel in flow.
Okay. So yeah, yeah. All right. I'm starting to get the picture of what you're saying now. So the, so you're in a monologue is like, you're not doubting yourself.
(02:45):
A lot of people could be doing something and succeeding, but they're in a monologue is, oh, I'm going shit, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So they're bending themselves up. That's right.
And so flow will be achieved if you're in a, and your other monologues are in sync. Yeah. Like when we, we bolster the kids and we say, you are amazing at basketball.
(03:06):
You always beat us when you, we do around the world and down at the basketball court. And then they have that inner monologue now, that belief system.
And so if they don't get the basket, it's like, oh, it's fine. Cause I'll get the next one. Yeah. And they then have this not inflated ego, but this belief. Yeah. Yeah.
So rather than doubting, yeah. And I like to emphasize that, you know, you always try your hardest. You always come back from adversity. Yeah. And so, all right. I like this.
(03:38):
Yeah. I haven't thought about it from that perspective because with sport, when I was playing the flow was a state that we all tried to get into. We didn't really know a lot about it back then. I'm old.
But I have experienced it. And it was almost as though the, yeah, the inner monologue before going into the tournament was success monologue. Yes. Yeah. No doubts. No fears.
(04:00):
And then when you're actually in the game, all in a monologue disappears. So tell me, cause I'm not and have never been an elite sports person. And I'll say yet.
Never too late to start. Yes. World Masters Championships. That's right.
Was it a, an absolutely pure to the cell belief that you are success, you will succeed or you are succeeding or was it a mantra that you said in the hope that you would?
(04:29):
I'm going to say neither. So there was a goal, you know, be the world's best, beat the world's best win. Yeah. So that was the direction I was heading. The work you put in as an athlete. I, this, but this has been on many podcasts.
(04:51):
The, you, you rise to the level of your systems. I think it is, is the term I've heard. So every athlete, every athlete is aiming for the same goal.
Right. Yeah. But it's what you do every day, the hard work you put in the, and, and the mental work that you put in.
So when, when we were going to, for example, Hungary, when we did really well in 95, it's you, I was always in the moment. I wasn't thinking too much, but we had a goal win. Yes. And you've done the work. Yeah. Done the work. So you work really hard.
(05:26):
And I had somehow figured out how to eradicate all of those negative voices in my head, which, which I struggled with most of my early childhood and early adulthood. And so once they were gone and I could be purely in the moment, that's when my instincts took over.
Yeah. And so if you put in the work, you, you, you rise to the level of your systems. So if your systems are turn up every day, work hard, work hard, work hard, do the best you can copy the experts, learn from the experts.
(05:58):
So you put in the work and then if you can turn off that inner monologue, especially when, when you're playing sport and you, you're just pure moment, what happened, what I experienced in 95 was time slowed down. Yes. It almost stopped.
I still, I still remember one of the fastest shooters in the world, one of the best shooters in the world, holding the ball up, looking at me and time had stopped and I knew where the ball was going before we threw it. It's, it was instinctive.
(06:28):
It wasn't, it wasn't thinking. It wasn't conscious. It was just pure instinct. And I remember almost laughing internally thinking, this is surreal. How can this be happening? How can everything be so slow?
And, and then, you know, I'd save the ball. We'd take off the other end score a goal and, you know, we ended up winning that tournament and being the best in the world in 95.
(06:51):
And it was, it was the most amazing experience, but you, sorry, long, long story, but you, you asked me what, what was it like in, in, in, in sport? Well, it's flow is when you have done the work, but you're able to get out of your head and just be 100% present in the moment and instinctual.
Like the karate kid. Yeah. Exactly. Wax off, wax off. Yeah. Yeah. He put in all the, in the original karate kid where he's getting him to send a floor, paint defense.
(07:19):
And he's getting him to train the muscles in, in, and so that they're, they're just hardwired in.
I think Mr. Miyagi was Japanese. So not, I don't know.
I'm sure that was a Japanese accent. No, I thought I sounded like Mr. Miyagi. I can't do an accent, but anyway, regardless, Mr. Miyagi got Daniel sung to, to, to paint the fence.
So it was the action.
It was the action, just a million repetitions. So the brain has that hardwired in as, as an action and same in, same in sport. When we're training, you just simply repeating the actions again and again and again.
(07:51):
So that when you allow yourself to be in the moment, get out of your head and just be 100% present, your body knows what, knows what to do. It's instinctive. Yes. Yeah.
Have we spoken about speed chess? No.
So speed chess is a similar sort of thing. I was listening or reading a book. I can't remember. It was many years ago, but so you heard the term gut instinct. Yes. What's gut instinct?
(08:15):
What's your current take on it? How would you see gut instinct at the moment? Intuition. Intuition. Yeah. That's the way we describe intuition.
But a scientist has kind of looked into it. I wish I've got to be able to carry all these, all these books in my head.
I've got thousands of books that I've read, but I just can't carry the authors. I apologize to whoever did this research, but they did this research and they found out that gut instinct is not so much instinct. It's pattern recognition.
(08:43):
Okay. Yes. Yes. It's familial. You've seen it before a million times. It'd be like you flying a plane. Yes. When you're in flow. Yeah. How many times have you done it before?
True. And even recognizing weather patterns and situations. So expecting or knowing a certain weather pattern is going to be there upon landing or whatever. Yeah.
(09:06):
So it's reading patterns. So that's what gut instinct is. Gut instinct is trusting your gut, which it feels like a gut feeling, but it's pattern recognition.
You've seen it so many times you don't need to doubt it because you've got ample evidence from history that that was what worked. Yeah.
And I guess that's similar to what the zone is or flow in sport. It's when you're in the zone, you're trusting your instincts because your instincts have done it a thousand times before.
(09:32):
Every day I'd sit in the cage and have hundreds of balls thrown at my head or at the corners hopefully. And so my brain got used to recognizing when an arm is in this pattern, it's going to go there.
When an arm on body is in this pattern, it's going to go there. And some players were very crafty. So if you've never faced them before, you've never seen that the way their shoulders move or their arm moves.
(09:56):
And we had an amazing player in our team, Dean Simmons. He had this long arm that he'd start the shot.
You'd think it was coming. And then by the time that his long arm had come around in the big wide arc, I'm already up at my peak.
And then he'd let go of the ball and he'd go the other side of the goal. I'm going, how did you do that?
(10:17):
It was just because I'd never experienced anyone who had that body type, that length of arm, that type of shot. And so that's something that you then have to get used to.
And so, yeah, pattern recognition is really what gut instinct is all about.
But let's go back to that inner monologue, outer monologue, because I find that interesting. So let's move away from sport.
(10:40):
If your inner monologue is, like you said before, your best friend.
Yeah. Well, it is. And your worst enemy.
Yeah. But it needs to be your best friend.
It does need to. Yeah. So that aim, the goal is to turn it into your best friend because you're always listening.
And because of patterns, because of conditioning.
(11:02):
And I have read previously that your parents' external monologue to you becomes your internal monologue.
So if your parents tell you you're rubbish at something and you always do this, it becomes your internal monologue.
And then you live up to that.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, they're taller.
(11:24):
But yeah, you live down to that because you, it's funny, you want to be part of your family.
You want to belong. It's a human instinct that we belong to. That's why we live in societies.
That's why we live in groups, because we know fundamentally deep down inside that we need to be in a group to survive.
If you wandered around the jungles on your own, you wouldn't last very long.
(11:45):
So we formed this need to belong. And so your instincts as a child are to belong to your family.
So you, no matter what is happening, your instincts are to belong there.
And so if your parents are saying to you, you're a piece of shit, you're such a whatever child, you never, whatever it is, whatever labels they put on you, it's really sad.
(12:09):
But that little child's brain now wants to create that so that they are the image the parent has projected onto them so that then they belong.
Yes. Yeah.
And so what we should do as parents, and it's really not that hard, is to put into the child's brain what we want their programming to be.
(12:30):
You always work your hardest.
Yeah, you put the most effort in I've ever seen.
Yeah, forget about results. We've spoken about this in the past, growth mindset versus fixed mindset.
So you focus on them always trying harder. And so I used to get down to my son's level.
I say, I'm such a lucky dad. And he'd go, why? I said, because every time we have dinner, you just help me.
(12:54):
You help set the table, you help clear the table. I'm such a lucky dad to have a kid like you.
And so some people said that's a bit manipulative, but it's not really when you think about it, because he did help me.
Well, if you know that your child will have this belief based on what you've externally told them, would you not want it to be full of love and bolstering their everything that they've done, their effort, how they view life themselves, seeing themselves not as a piece of shit, but seeing themselves as contributing to society and everything they do helps fellow man.
(13:32):
That's it. Imagine looking at your child and say, you never clean your room. That child is now identifying with a child that never cleans their room and they're never going to clean the room.
You're making the situation worse. So you've got to wait until they've cleaned the room and then throw all your praise and appreciation at what they've done. Oh, I'm so lucky. Thank you so much.
Or, you know, whatever it is that's going to make them identify with that.
(13:54):
Have we spoken about the annual leave, not annual leave, sick leave in Australia versus sick leave in Scandinavia? We have on this podcast. It's the same sort of thing. I'll just quickly repeat it. In Australia, we get 10 day sick leave and we call it sick leave entitlement.
And in the companies where it doesn't accrue, people generally take it. They take most of it. They take their sickies in Australia.
(14:18):
That's right. We're entitled to it.
It'll run out. Yeah. And so in Scandinavian countries, though, they have got a different term for it, but they've got three months, like without a doctor's certificate.
And so in Australia, where you get told 10 days entitlement and if it doesn't accrue, you take it. But over there, they're told that they get three months. And I think I've read on average they take three days.
(14:43):
So one of my clients here in Australia, they went to unlimited sick leave. Well, guess what happened?
Yeah, the sick leave went down. Yeah, because basically what they're saying to their staff is we trust you, our image of you.
So the outer monologue, which then becomes the inner monologue, is we trust you. Now they live up to that expectation.
We did have that at Virgin when I was there and I was very fortunate to be working for them when this policy was in. It's no longer in my understanding.
(15:10):
However, every pilot's sick leave, they contributed one day to a pool, sick leave pool. And that was for pilots. So pilots want to work. Pilots want to fly.
They love flying, I've found out. Yeah, but it's not just a job. It's not just a career. It's a love. They do it. You turn up early.
(15:32):
You turn up early. You know, we don't turn up early. Well, one, it's kind of ingrained in this, you know, on time is late and early is on time.
However, the whole thing is generally, and I am generalizing here, I can think of one, maybe two in my whole career pilots who didn't want to be there.
But if you're sick, you want to get better quickly to come back to work. And I utilized this pool of sick leave, which was very, very generously given.
(16:05):
I was given. Yeah. And it was when I had breast cancer and I was going through treatment. Now, as soon as you get diagnosed with cancer, any type of cancer in Australia, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority removes your medical.
Okay. Until further investigation. So as soon as you tell them, and you must tell them within seven days of diagnosis, then your medical gets removed. So then you obviously will be wanting to make yourself better anyway.
(16:38):
But it's a real kick in the guts to have a medical removed from you. And so you're just one trying to get well, but to come back to work. Well, that was my experience.
And having that financial burden removed. So being paid. So you're still able to care for your family, look after your family without having that mental load.
(17:04):
Then you can get back, come back to work faster. And you also feel such, such immense pride and like loyalty to the company.
And gratitude, I guess. You do. And gratitude. That's right. Because they've enabled you to get well.
And I guess the other pilots as well who were donating. Absolutely. Because it's like you're creating a collegiate atmosphere.
(17:27):
It is. And it's a family. There was the family, but we'll talk about that on another podcast.
I've heard about the family.
But that was, yeah, that was a great thing. And a lot of guys and girls didn't take sick leave. We also had early leave, which was upper respiratory tract infection days, which was on top of our sick leave as such.
(17:51):
But ours accrued. And again, if we could give it to another pilot, that made us feel good too.
I love that. I love hearing that the company had done that. I wish it was still there. I hope it's still there.
Yeah, I've heard it's not. It might be back. But it's a great way to create a culture of trust.
And so going back to the inner monologue, outer monologue, if a company says, we trust you, Michelle, you now live up to that expectation.
(18:17):
If the company says we don't trust you, you now live up to that expectation because that's human nature. Human nature is that we live up to the, I guess, the persona that is projected upon us either by other people or ourselves.
So if you say, oh, I'm useless here or I'm a hothead and or whatever it is that you label yourself with, you will now live up to that expectation.
(18:40):
You have to because I know I keep harping on this, but your subconscious mind's job is to obey every instruction you give it.
So if you say something like, oh, I'm just a real hothead, you know, I lose control of my emotions very, very quickly, especially when I'm in the car or I'm with the kids, your subconscious mind is listening and being programmed by those thoughts.
It's a robot. It has to obey that program, not question its efficacy or validity.
(19:04):
And so now when you're in a car and somebody does something silly, you explode. When the kids do something, you explode because your subconscious mind is just simply playing the record of the program or the computer program that you've put in there, obeying the instructions.
And so this inner monologue, outer monologue concept that you were talking about this morning, it's so important.
(19:26):
What is your inner monologue and is it the same sort of inner monologue that you would want that you would be giving to your best friend?
Well, the good thing is that you can change it.
So if it's not what you would advise and support, you would be giving to your best friend, your family.
You can change it.
And you just, like you've said, you know, the repetition, have it written as almost a mantra or an affirmation and you will start to see it.
(19:56):
And we've discussed again about the Kukubara, you know, and parking ferries, et cetera.
Again, it's a muscle. It can be trained.
Your perspective, your inner monologue can create the work, the life that you want.
Not delusional. No, I am the greatest. Oh, I can. What was it?
The democratic leader at the moment. What's his in the US?
(20:22):
No, you're talking about the republic. Oh, republic, sorry, not the democratic.
I have the best. I am the greatest.
I have the best.
Can you imagine the Post-it notes around his place?
I don't think he needs them. I think everything is the best.
Yeah, but not delusional. So with fact, but you know, and if you look at something that you've done, how would you extract the best parts to tell your child, to tell your family member, to tell your best friend?
(20:52):
Do that to yourself.
Yeah. Consciously create a new persona, maybe an alter ego. That could be another podcast we'll talk about.
I love an alter ego.
Yeah, create an image that you want of yourself and start programming it in. And like you said, you can't just suddenly say, I'm the best, I'm the greatest. You've got to say, I used to be.
(21:13):
Well, that's why I asked you about, was it something that you just said and hoped that you would believe or you truly believed when you were in flow?
So, yeah. And so because creating this, this inner monologue and without fact, so the fact that you had done the work, you had done the repetitions, you had proven, and you also had external reinforcement of that you were good at what you were doing.
(21:39):
So that belief thing, you've just triggered something. This is really interesting, right? Belief is the starting point. You need evidence to believe.
Most people need evidence to believe. Like this whole thing of faith, you will get there. Faith, you will arrive in wherever.
(22:00):
Nirvana, Valhalla, heaven, wherever it is. Faith, right? Faith and belief is an interesting concept. So when I was playing sport, I had thousands and thousands and thousands of balls thrown at me. I was a goalkeeper.
And so I had thousands and thousands of data points in my head that I could do it, that I could save it. And every time I didn't save a ball, I had a new data point on something I needed to improve on, do differently. Yeah.
(22:28):
Yes.
So we have spoken about this in the podcast where I had this little routine that if somebody scored a goal against me before I got the ball out of the back of the cage, I would replay it in my mind and physically do it. So I would pretend that they're shooting again, but this time I'd save the ball, rewire that in my brain, get the ball, then throw it back to halfway, and I'd forget about the fact that they scored a goal.
And so belief often comes from evidence. So in sport, I had so much practice that I had built up this belief that I can actually do this. Yeah.
(23:03):
So when you're saying believe that you're going to win, it was not so much believe that we were going to win. Win was the target, right? But the belief was in the fact that I had the abilities within me. And then when I got out of my own brain's way,
yeah, so I went, I got out of my brain and let it operate instinctively with, I guess it's a belief, but that belief came from the training. It came from the system. So you rise to the level of your systems, which is turning up every day, turning up and writing a couple of pages in your book, turning up every day and lifting those weights, turning up every day and making your bed, whatever it is, your systems are what's going to create success.
(23:44):
So yeah, all right. I'm getting a, thank you for this. I'm getting a stronger picture of where the belief was coming from. The belief wasn't so much a fictitious belief where I'm imagining being the world's best or whatever. It was more-
A knowing, do you think? A knowing I could do the steps that would take me there. Yeah. Yeah. And that was based on the repetition and the systems of training every day, recovering every day, eating well, you know, having your saunas. I wish we knew about ice baths back then, because I never got into the cold pool.
(24:17):
But you lived in Canberra, you weren't walking around. Yeah. We had one guy in our team that used to have cold showers at the end of training and we thought he was an absolute lunatic. He was ahead of his time. He was way ahead of his time. Yeah. But I think it was vanity because he was closing his pores. Anyway, the thing is- It worked. Yeah, it did. He still looks like he's 12. But the flow, it comes from instinct based on a belief that you've done, you know, you've done it.
(24:47):
You've done the work. That's an interesting concept. I want to spend more time thinking about this in a monologue, out of monologue like alignment or synergy that you're talking about there, because I think my head's still dancing with this new idea. I like it when you do this, Michelle. You listen to something or you read something and then you share a snippet and my brain goes, oh, I need to know more.
(25:09):
Bollinger. Yeah, Lint. Oh, we have been sponsoring you, Lint. We've been sponsoring you, Lint. Yeah, come on. It's about time that they came back the other way. Bo's, we're sitting here with our nice Bo's headphones on. That's right. Yes. Anyway, more dogs? Yes, more dogs will be a better place.
Oh, we're off to Bali to do some work over there. I know. How exciting is that? And we're hoping to bring you all a very special guest. We're trying so hard to make this happen. Yeah, the aligning. We need the universe to align here because of travel arrangements, but a very, very special guest, an amazing human being. So anyway, yes.
(25:53):
Yes, we'll make it work, won't we Michelle? Because everything works out for us. Always. That's our monologue. Yes. Thanks, guys. Alright, see you. Bye. Bye.
Well, that was fun. That was fun. You're such a clown. Lady captain. And who's going to listen to this? Maybe our mums. Thanks, mum.
G'day leaders. In this podcast, we talk about two things actually. We talk about flow or the zone in sport and the inner monologue and outer monologue and how they contribute to that. And we'll kind of put it all together in this new idea around how you can be your own best friend. Enjoy.
(00:20):
Why do it count backwards? And they that we're now recording.
What? Hello Captain. What do I say?
Come fly with me. Let's fly. Let's fly away.
What are we going to talk about? I don't know. So leadership, life and everything else. Yeah.
(00:43):
And we're live. No, we're recording. We're live in the studio. And in flow. Yes. Yeah, you had some interesting thoughts about flow. I did. I was listening to a podcast at the gym this morning and the presenter and I will look it up actually, who it was, was talking about how the inner story in your mind, the story we tell ourselves, and how we can be our best friend.
(01:13):
And we tell ourselves that it's the first story we hear when we're conscious and born and the last story or the last voice that we'll hear when our time is over on the planet.
Oh, okay. It's interesting. I haven't thought about that. Yeah. So our inner monologue.
And we are the center of our own universe. Yes. But the podcast was mentioning and we were discussing it on the way home that the process of flow, which we've spoken of before when things just work and it seems to be effortless.
(01:46):
You're in flow, whether it be in sport or work or personal life. And the presenters reasoning for this was that the inner monologue aligns with the outer monologue.
So the outer monologue being the goal where you're heading or the reality.
So he gave an example of when you are not putting yourself down, for example, that how you speak to a colleague, how you speak to a loved one, family member, and you're encouraging and pointing out the good parts of what they've done.
(02:24):
They may not have done well, but you know, you emphasize the positive. And when that is aligned with what's happening externally, you can feel in flow.
Okay. So yeah, yeah. All right. I'm starting to get the picture of what you're saying now. So the, so you're in a monologue is like, you're not doubting yourself.
(02:45):
A lot of people could be doing something and succeeding, but they're in a monologue is, oh, I'm going shit, you know? Yeah. Yeah. So they're bending themselves up. That's right.
And so flow will be achieved if you're in a, and your other monologues are in sync. Yeah. Like when we, we bolster the kids and we say, you are amazing at basketball.
(03:06):
You always beat us when you, we do around the world and down at the basketball court. And then they have that inner monologue now, that belief system.
And so if they don't get the basket, it's like, oh, it's fine. Cause I'll get the next one. Yeah. And they then have this not inflated ego, but this belief. Yeah. Yeah.
So rather than doubting, yeah. And I like to emphasize that, you know, you always try your hardest. You always come back from adversity. Yeah. And so, all right. I like this.
(03:38):
Yeah. I haven't thought about it from that perspective because with sport, when I was playing the flow was a state that we all tried to get into. We didn't really know a lot about it back then. I'm old.
But I have experienced it. And it was almost as though the, yeah, the inner monologue before going into the tournament was success monologue. Yes. Yeah. No doubts. No fears.
(04:00):
And then when you're actually in the game, all in a monologue disappears. So tell me, cause I'm not and have never been an elite sports person. And I'll say yet.
Never too late to start. Yes. World Masters Championships. That's right.
Was it a, an absolutely pure to the cell belief that you are success, you will succeed or you are succeeding or was it a mantra that you said in the hope that you would?
(04:29):
I'm going to say neither. So there was a goal, you know, be the world's best, beat the world's best win. Yeah. So that was the direction I was heading. The work you put in as an athlete. I, this, but this has been on many podcasts.
(04:51):
The, you, you rise to the level of your systems. I think it is, is the term I've heard. So every athlete, every athlete is aiming for the same goal.
Right. Yeah. But it's what you do every day, the hard work you put in the, and, and the mental work that you put in.
So when, when we were going to, for example, Hungary, when we did really well in 95, it's you, I was always in the moment. I wasn't thinking too much, but we had a goal win. Yes. And you've done the work. Yeah. Done the work. So you work really hard.
(05:26):
And I had somehow figured out how to eradicate all of those negative voices in my head, which, which I struggled with most of my early childhood and early adulthood. And so once they were gone and I could be purely in the moment, that's when my instincts took over.
Yeah. And so if you put in the work, you, you, you rise to the level of your systems. So if your systems are turn up every day, work hard, work hard, work hard, do the best you can copy the experts, learn from the experts.
(05:58):
So you put in the work and then if you can turn off that inner monologue, especially when, when you're playing sport and you, you're just pure moment, what happened, what I experienced in 95 was time slowed down. Yes. It almost stopped.
I still, I still remember one of the fastest shooters in the world, one of the best shooters in the world, holding the ball up, looking at me and time had stopped and I knew where the ball was going before we threw it. It's, it was instinctive.
(06:28):
It wasn't, it wasn't thinking. It wasn't conscious. It was just pure instinct. And I remember almost laughing internally thinking, this is surreal. How can this be happening? How can everything be so slow?
And, and then, you know, I'd save the ball. We'd take off the other end score a goal and, you know, we ended up winning that tournament and being the best in the world in 95.
(06:51):
And it was, it was the most amazing experience, but you, sorry, long, long story, but you, you asked me what, what was it like in, in, in, in sport? Well, it's flow is when you have done the work, but you're able to get out of your head and just be 100% present in the moment and instinctual.
Like the karate kid. Yeah. Exactly. Wax off, wax off. Yeah. Yeah. He put in all the, in the original karate kid where he's getting him to send a floor, paint defense.
(07:19):
And he's getting him to train the muscles in, in, and so that they're, they're just hardwired in.
I think Mr. Miyagi was Japanese. So not, I don't know.
I'm sure that was a Japanese accent. No, I thought I sounded like Mr. Miyagi. I can't do an accent, but anyway, regardless, Mr. Miyagi got Daniel sung to, to, to paint the fence.
So it was the action.
It was the action, just a million repetitions. So the brain has that hardwired in as, as an action and same in, same in sport. When we're training, you just simply repeating the actions again and again and again.
(07:51):
So that when you allow yourself to be in the moment, get out of your head and just be 100% present, your body knows what, knows what to do. It's instinctive. Yes. Yeah.
Have we spoken about speed chess? No.
So speed chess is a similar sort of thing. I was listening or reading a book. I can't remember. It was many years ago, but so you heard the term gut instinct. Yes. What's gut instinct?
(08:15):
What's your current take on it? How would you see gut instinct at the moment? Intuition. Intuition. Yeah. That's the way we describe intuition.
But a scientist has kind of looked into it. I wish I've got to be able to carry all these, all these books in my head.
I've got thousands of books that I've read, but I just can't carry the authors. I apologize to whoever did this research, but they did this research and they found out that gut instinct is not so much instinct. It's pattern recognition.
(08:43):
Okay. Yes. Yes. It's familial. You've seen it before a million times. It'd be like you flying a plane. Yes. When you're in flow. Yeah. How many times have you done it before?
True. And even recognizing weather patterns and situations. So expecting or knowing a certain weather pattern is going to be there upon landing or whatever. Yeah.
(09:06):
So it's reading patterns. So that's what gut instinct is. Gut instinct is trusting your gut, which it feels like a gut feeling, but it's pattern recognition.
You've seen it so many times you don't need to doubt it because you've got ample evidence from history that that was what worked. Yeah.
And I guess that's similar to what the zone is or flow in sport. It's when you're in the zone, you're trusting your instincts because your instincts have done it a thousand times before.
(09:32):
Every day I'd sit in the cage and have hundreds of balls thrown at my head or at the corners hopefully. And so my brain got used to recognizing when an arm is in this pattern, it's going to go there.
When an arm on body is in this pattern, it's going to go there. And some players were very crafty. So if you've never faced them before, you've never seen that the way their shoulders move or their arm moves.
(09:56):
And we had an amazing player in our team, Dean Simmons. He had this long arm that he'd start the shot.
You'd think it was coming. And then by the time that his long arm had come around in the big wide arc, I'm already up at my peak.
And then he'd let go of the ball and he'd go the other side of the goal. I'm going, how did you do that?
(10:17):
It was just because I'd never experienced anyone who had that body type, that length of arm, that type of shot. And so that's something that you then have to get used to.
And so, yeah, pattern recognition is really what gut instinct is all about.
But let's go back to that inner monologue, outer monologue, because I find that interesting. So let's move away from sport.
(10:40):
If your inner monologue is, like you said before, your best friend.
Yeah. Well, it is. And your worst enemy.
Yeah. But it needs to be your best friend.
It does need to. Yeah. So that aim, the goal is to turn it into your best friend because you're always listening.
And because of patterns, because of conditioning.
(11:02):
And I have read previously that your parents' external monologue to you becomes your internal monologue.
So if your parents tell you you're rubbish at something and you always do this, it becomes your internal monologue.
And then you live up to that.
Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, yeah, they're taller.
(11:24):
But yeah, you live down to that because you, it's funny, you want to be part of your family.
You want to belong. It's a human instinct that we belong to. That's why we live in societies.
That's why we live in groups, because we know fundamentally deep down inside that we need to be in a group to survive.
If you wandered around the jungles on your own, you wouldn't last very long.
(11:45):
So we formed this need to belong. And so your instincts as a child are to belong to your family.
So you, no matter what is happening, your instincts are to belong there.
And so if your parents are saying to you, you're a piece of shit, you're such a whatever child, you never, whatever it is, whatever labels they put on you, it's really sad.
(12:09):
But that little child's brain now wants to create that so that they are the image the parent has projected onto them so that then they belong.
Yes. Yeah.
And so what we should do as parents, and it's really not that hard, is to put into the child's brain what we want their programming to be.
(12:30):
You always work your hardest.
Yeah, you put the most effort in I've ever seen.
Yeah, forget about results. We've spoken about this in the past, growth mindset versus fixed mindset.
So you focus on them always trying harder. And so I used to get down to my son's level.
I say, I'm such a lucky dad. And he'd go, why? I said, because every time we have dinner, you just help me.
(12:54):
You help set the table, you help clear the table. I'm such a lucky dad to have a kid like you.
And so some people said that's a bit manipulative, but it's not really when you think about it, because he did help me.
Well, if you know that your child will have this belief based on what you've externally told them, would you not want it to be full of love and bolstering their everything that they've done, their effort, how they view life themselves, seeing themselves not as a piece of shit, but seeing themselves as contributing to society and everything they do helps fellow man.
(13:32):
That's it. Imagine looking at your child and say, you never clean your room. That child is now identifying with a child that never cleans their room and they're never going to clean the room.
You're making the situation worse. So you've got to wait until they've cleaned the room and then throw all your praise and appreciation at what they've done. Oh, I'm so lucky. Thank you so much.
Or, you know, whatever it is that's going to make them identify with that.
(13:54):
Have we spoken about the annual leave, not annual leave, sick leave in Australia versus sick leave in Scandinavia? We have on this podcast. It's the same sort of thing. I'll just quickly repeat it. In Australia, we get 10 day sick leave and we call it sick leave entitlement.
And in the companies where it doesn't accrue, people generally take it. They take most of it. They take their sickies in Australia.
(14:18):
That's right. We're entitled to it.
It'll run out. Yeah. And so in Scandinavian countries, though, they have got a different term for it, but they've got three months, like without a doctor's certificate.
And so in Australia, where you get told 10 days entitlement and if it doesn't accrue, you take it. But over there, they're told that they get three months. And I think I've read on average they take three days.
(14:43):
So one of my clients here in Australia, they went to unlimited sick leave. Well, guess what happened?
Yeah, the sick leave went down. Yeah, because basically what they're saying to their staff is we trust you, our image of you.
So the outer monologue, which then becomes the inner monologue, is we trust you. Now they live up to that expectation.
We did have that at Virgin when I was there and I was very fortunate to be working for them when this policy was in. It's no longer in my understanding.
(15:10):
However, every pilot's sick leave, they contributed one day to a pool, sick leave pool. And that was for pilots. So pilots want to work. Pilots want to fly.
They love flying, I've found out. Yeah, but it's not just a job. It's not just a career. It's a love. They do it. You turn up early.
(15:32):
You turn up early. You know, we don't turn up early. Well, one, it's kind of ingrained in this, you know, on time is late and early is on time.
However, the whole thing is generally, and I am generalizing here, I can think of one, maybe two in my whole career pilots who didn't want to be there.
But if you're sick, you want to get better quickly to come back to work. And I utilized this pool of sick leave, which was very, very generously given.
(16:05):
I was given. Yeah. And it was when I had breast cancer and I was going through treatment. Now, as soon as you get diagnosed with cancer, any type of cancer in Australia, the Civil Aviation Safety Authority removes your medical.
Okay. Until further investigation. So as soon as you tell them, and you must tell them within seven days of diagnosis, then your medical gets removed. So then you obviously will be wanting to make yourself better anyway.
(16:38):
But it's a real kick in the guts to have a medical removed from you. And so you're just one trying to get well, but to come back to work. Well, that was my experience.
And having that financial burden removed. So being paid. So you're still able to care for your family, look after your family without having that mental load.
(17:04):
Then you can get back, come back to work faster. And you also feel such, such immense pride and like loyalty to the company.
And gratitude, I guess. You do. And gratitude. That's right. Because they've enabled you to get well.
And I guess the other pilots as well who were donating. Absolutely. Because it's like you're creating a collegiate atmosphere.
(17:27):
It is. And it's a family. There was the family, but we'll talk about that on another podcast.
I've heard about the family.
But that was, yeah, that was a great thing. And a lot of guys and girls didn't take sick leave. We also had early leave, which was upper respiratory tract infection days, which was on top of our sick leave as such.
(17:51):
But ours accrued. And again, if we could give it to another pilot, that made us feel good too.
I love that. I love hearing that the company had done that. I wish it was still there. I hope it's still there.
Yeah, I've heard it's not. It might be back. But it's a great way to create a culture of trust.
And so going back to the inner monologue, outer monologue, if a company says, we trust you, Michelle, you now live up to that expectation.
(18:17):
If the company says we don't trust you, you now live up to that expectation because that's human nature. Human nature is that we live up to the, I guess, the persona that is projected upon us either by other people or ourselves.
So if you say, oh, I'm useless here or I'm a hothead and or whatever it is that you label yourself with, you will now live up to that expectation.
(18:40):
You have to because I know I keep harping on this, but your subconscious mind's job is to obey every instruction you give it.
So if you say something like, oh, I'm just a real hothead, you know, I lose control of my emotions very, very quickly, especially when I'm in the car or I'm with the kids, your subconscious mind is listening and being programmed by those thoughts.
It's a robot. It has to obey that program, not question its efficacy or validity.
(19:04):
And so now when you're in a car and somebody does something silly, you explode. When the kids do something, you explode because your subconscious mind is just simply playing the record of the program or the computer program that you've put in there, obeying the instructions.
And so this inner monologue, outer monologue concept that you were talking about this morning, it's so important.
(19:26):
What is your inner monologue and is it the same sort of inner monologue that you would want that you would be giving to your best friend?
Well, the good thing is that you can change it.
So if it's not what you would advise and support, you would be giving to your best friend, your family.
You can change it.
And you just, like you've said, you know, the repetition, have it written as almost a mantra or an affirmation and you will start to see it.
(19:56):
And we've discussed again about the Kukubara, you know, and parking ferries, et cetera.
Again, it's a muscle. It can be trained.
Your perspective, your inner monologue can create the work, the life that you want.
Not delusional. No, I am the greatest. Oh, I can. What was it?
The democratic leader at the moment. What's his in the US?
(20:22):
No, you're talking about the republic. Oh, republic, sorry, not the democratic.
I have the best. I am the greatest.
I have the best.
Can you imagine the Post-it notes around his place?
I don't think he needs them. I think everything is the best.
Yeah, but not delusional. So with fact, but you know, and if you look at something that you've done, how would you extract the best parts to tell your child, to tell your family member, to tell your best friend?
(20:52):
Do that to yourself.
Yeah. Consciously create a new persona, maybe an alter ego. That could be another podcast we'll talk about.
I love an alter ego.
Yeah, create an image that you want of yourself and start programming it in. And like you said, you can't just suddenly say, I'm the best, I'm the greatest. You've got to say, I used to be.
(21:13):
Well, that's why I asked you about, was it something that you just said and hoped that you would believe or you truly believed when you were in flow?
So, yeah. And so because creating this, this inner monologue and without fact, so the fact that you had done the work, you had done the repetitions, you had proven, and you also had external reinforcement of that you were good at what you were doing.
(21:39):
So that belief thing, you've just triggered something. This is really interesting, right? Belief is the starting point. You need evidence to believe.
Most people need evidence to believe. Like this whole thing of faith, you will get there. Faith, you will arrive in wherever.
(22:00):
Nirvana, Valhalla, heaven, wherever it is. Faith, right? Faith and belief is an interesting concept. So when I was playing sport, I had thousands and thousands and thousands of balls thrown at me. I was a goalkeeper.
And so I had thousands and thousands of data points in my head that I could do it, that I could save it. And every time I didn't save a ball, I had a new data point on something I needed to improve on, do differently. Yeah.
(22:28):
Yes.
So we have spoken about this in the podcast where I had this little routine that if somebody scored a goal against me before I got the ball out of the back of the cage, I would replay it in my mind and physically do it. So I would pretend that they're shooting again, but this time I'd save the ball, rewire that in my brain, get the ball, then throw it back to halfway, and I'd forget about the fact that they scored a goal.
And so belief often comes from evidence. So in sport, I had so much practice that I had built up this belief that I can actually do this. Yeah.
(23:03):
So when you're saying believe that you're going to win, it was not so much believe that we were going to win. Win was the target, right? But the belief was in the fact that I had the abilities within me. And then when I got out of my own brain's way,
yeah, so I went, I got out of my brain and let it operate instinctively with, I guess it's a belief, but that belief came from the training. It came from the system. So you rise to the level of your systems, which is turning up every day, turning up and writing a couple of pages in your book, turning up every day and lifting those weights, turning up every day and making your bed, whatever it is, your systems are what's going to create success.
(23:44):
So yeah, all right. I'm getting a, thank you for this. I'm getting a stronger picture of where the belief was coming from. The belief wasn't so much a fictitious belief where I'm imagining being the world's best or whatever. It was more-
A knowing, do you think? A knowing I could do the steps that would take me there. Yeah. Yeah. And that was based on the repetition and the systems of training every day, recovering every day, eating well, you know, having your saunas. I wish we knew about ice baths back then, because I never got into the cold pool.
(24:17):
But you lived in Canberra, you weren't walking around. Yeah. We had one guy in our team that used to have cold showers at the end of training and we thought he was an absolute lunatic. He was ahead of his time. He was way ahead of his time. Yeah. But I think it was vanity because he was closing his pores. Anyway, the thing is- It worked. Yeah, it did. He still looks like he's 12. But the flow, it comes from instinct based on a belief that you've done, you know, you've done it.
(24:47):
You've done the work. That's an interesting concept. I want to spend more time thinking about this in a monologue, out of monologue like alignment or synergy that you're talking about there, because I think my head's still dancing with this new idea. I like it when you do this, Michelle. You listen to something or you read something and then you share a snippet and my brain goes, oh, I need to know more.
(25:09):
Bollinger. Yeah, Lint. Oh, we have been sponsoring you, Lint. We've been sponsoring you, Lint. Yeah, come on. It's about time that they came back the other way. Bo's, we're sitting here with our nice Bo's headphones on. That's right. Yes. Anyway, more dogs? Yes, more dogs will be a better place.
Oh, we're off to Bali to do some work over there. I know. How exciting is that? And we're hoping to bring you all a very special guest. We're trying so hard to make this happen. Yeah, the aligning. We need the universe to align here because of travel arrangements, but a very, very special guest, an amazing human being. So anyway, yes.
(25:53):
Yes, we'll make it work, won't we Michelle? Because everything works out for us. Always. That's our monologue. Yes. Thanks, guys. Alright, see you. Bye. Bye.
Well, that was fun. That was fun. You're such a clown. Lady captain. And who's going to listen to this? Maybe our mums. Thanks, mum.
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