November 18, 2024 • 17 mins
In this episode. we explore the delicate art of managing our most precious resource - our vitality.
We explore the moments when inspiration arrives, those valuable bursts of creativity that emerge unexpectedly. While these moments should be embraced fully, we challenged the conventional wisdom that we perform better under pressure. Although deadlines might generate a particular kind of energy, we questioned its sustainability.
Our discussion evolved into an examination of the different types of energy we possess. We conceptualised this as distinct varieties of mental resources - one for social engagement and another for concentrated work. Although circumstances don't always permit us to choose which type we need, understanding these distinctions enables more informed decisions when choice is possible.
Did you know, Albert Einstein developed a method of napping with keys positioned above a saucepan. As he would begin to sleep, the keys would fall, waking him at the precise moment his creativity was heightened.
Michelle shares her experiences with nocturnal creativity - when inspiration presents itself at 2am. This prompted an exploration of chronotypes and peak performance periods, though we acknowledged that not everyone has the opportunity to align with their natural rhythms.
We explore how pilots maintain their energy levels when their circadian rhythms face regular disruption utilising the science of adenosine and the strategic implementation of 20-minute caffeine naps.
There is profound value in observing these quieter moments, allowing them to inform our self-understanding, and maintaining faith in the cyclical nature of energy.
The essential message from this episode centres on understanding that energy isn't a resource to be conquered but rather one to be understood and respected. Success lies in recognising when to exert maximum effort and when to conserve energy while awaiting the next natural surge.
Enjoy!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
G'day leaders, have you ever felt tired and not able to perform to your peak in this podcast?
(00:06):
Both Michelle and I were exhausted but we decided to do one anyway on the concept of
riding the wave.
So only trying to do the maximum when your energy is at the right level and giving yourself
the opportunity to have a break when you're not, plus other things.
Enjoy.
Why did it count backwards?
Oh no, we're now recording.
(00:28):
What?
Hello captain.
Oh what do I say?
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly.
What are we going to talk about?
I don't know.
So leadership, life and everything else.
Yeah.
And we're barely alive.
I know, I'm struggling.
I know, that's why I said let's record a quick podcast about riding the wave.
I'm going to do a little bit of a
(00:55):
podcast about riding the wave.
Yes, you didn't have the energy and I had a little bit more energy than you but I thought
it was a great opportunity to talk about something that I've only just started to apply to myself
in maybe the last five or six years and that is that when your energy's up, ride the wave.
(01:17):
Be productive, do stuff.
Yes.
But when your energy is low, give yourself a bloody break.
Yeah.
So I said let's go record a podcast about this and he went I'm too tired guy and I said
it's okay, I'll do all the work.
And that reminded me of a concept that we've both heard Brené Brown speak about how when
(01:41):
in her partnership when her energy is low.
Yes.
Yeah.
Her partner picks up the slack.
And you know when his energy is low she picks up the slack.
And so it's not like you have to be equal all the time.
No but also when they're both low which happens because we're not at our 100% that they acknowledge
(02:05):
it and go let's get takeout, let's have two minute noodles, let's just chill on the lounge
let's you know and they actually acknowledge that they aren't low.
And I think well we're going away.
And it's that whole thing of we've been flat out revving, productive and now we're at that
(02:28):
we're just about to go.
We are and it's like we've still got a lot to do but it's struggling so we've just had
some water.
Yeah.
But it's a concept I call ride the wave, ride your wave.
So for years I was very driven, very goal driven, very push, push, push, push, push always
(02:49):
trying to get more out you know achieve, achieve, achieve, you know all of that sort of stuff
you do when you're young and stupid.
But I've realised over the last you know I'm going to guess maybe five years or so that
I have peaks and troughs with regards to my energy, with regards to my mental creativity
and so a lot of the stuff that we do requires certain parts of your brain to be switched
(03:12):
on.
So artists call it their muse when their muse arrives and that's when they write or paint
or create music or whatever it is.
And I've noticed that my creative energy, my logical energy, all of the different types
of thinking that I have to use in different areas of work etc. they come in waves and
(03:35):
I'm starting to become very conscious of those waves and so that I'm not pushing myself,
I'm not trying to achieve things in low periods.
Yeah I think I'm now thinking back to times when I've wanted to, needed to potentially
study say for a sim or something and I become the most prolific chef.
(04:02):
My house is clean, I do everything other than study and it's yeah I'm not in the right frame
of mind which potentially I could net, sometimes I wouldn't get in the right frame of mind
it was only when panic set in.
Oh my goodness like that deadline thing was yeah the urgency stepped up.
Do it!
(04:24):
And that's contrary to one of the things I teach.
I know, I know.
That a lot of people say oh I work better under pressure, no you just simply work, it's
the pressure that's making you work.
You can't avoid it any longer.
No.
But you say you've got energy but you haven't got the right sort of energy.
Right.
Yeah and that's about identifying that hold on I'm just not feeling it at the moment so
(04:45):
I'm going to give myself a break.
Now obviously in life you can't always choose when your waves are, you know when to ride
which wave you've, you know you've got to get out of bed and you've got to get the kids
ready for school or you've got to make dinner for the family or you've got to do that report
that the boss is screaming at you for.
So you can't always choose.
I understand that this isn't a black and white thing but it's about identifying that whatever
(05:09):
role you have, whatever you know hobbies you have, you know you're going to have peaks
and troughs and accept those peaks and troughs and ride them.
Ride them when they're up and have a rest when they're down.
So don't push yourself because I used to get really hard on myself.
Yeah.
Yeah I used to beat myself up.
Why you know why couldn't you be productive this week?
Why couldn't you do that?
(05:30):
And then that would get me into a bit of a spiral and then my energy would go down and
I'd still be kicking myself a week later.
But now, now that I've come to terms with my peaks and troughs, I'm finding that when
I am at my peak I'm incredibly productive and when I'm at my low I just allow myself
to you know teeter along, do with a bare minimum, do what's required.
(05:53):
Nothing ever falls through the cracks.
Like I'm not ever going to let you know an area of my life suffer greatly because of
it.
But yeah I just like this concept and it just came to mind when both of us were looking
at each other this night.
I'm exhausted.
Yes.
Well this week I set a goal to a challenge to myself that I wanted to edit my book.
(06:20):
Yes.
And I think there are 68 stories in there at the moment that chapters, chapters yes.
And I was feeling today a bit like I didn't complete it.
I did 25 which fell short of the 68.
However I've done 25 which is I'm, I now have to go I've done 25 which is pretty good
(06:43):
in a week.
But I ran out of, I just couldn't.
Thinking juice.
Yeah I couldn't.
I'm like no.
Yeah.
I call it talking juice when I can't talk and thinking juice when I can't think.
Yeah.
Yeah but if you look at the way that book has been written, it's been written on the
peak of the waves.
Yes.
And it had pauses on the lows.
Yeah.
And actually the lows they're sitting with it and just kind of observing life and not
(07:08):
actually producing gave me then started to fill me with creative juices and a different,
possibly a different way of thinking about it rather than how I was just you know turning
through.
Do you know how Albert Einstein used that?
No.
So he used to, he knew that there was a certain wakeness state.
(07:29):
Yes.
That his best creativity, best thinking would come from and so and I believe quite a few
people I've only ever heard about Albert doing this.
My mate Albert you know.
Al.
Al.
Yeah how'd you know that's what I call him.
Anyway he used to have naps right in his office.
He'd hold his keys in his hand.
(07:51):
Yeah.
He would lie down on his credenza or is that a word credenza?
No isn't that a sideboard, a credenza?
Yeah okay.
You know what's a sideboard?
Chez Lange.
He'd lie down on his couch, basically have his hand hanging over the edge of the couch
over a saucepan and so he'd start to go to sleep but then as he fell into you know he's
(08:13):
just about to fall into deep sleep his hand would open, the keys would drop, they'd make
a big sound, they'd wake him up.
He'd then get up and in that state he came up with his best ideas.
I hope it was Albert Einstein that's what I read on the internet and everything on the
internet is true.
Must be true.
Yeah it's about you knowing your peaks and troughs and when do you perform at your peak,
(08:34):
what do you need to do?
Yeah.
Yeah like at the moment I'm getting up early in the morning, the first thing I do is have
a cold shower to wake myself up.
If you haven't looked into cold showers look into it.
But that feeling afterwards, the dopamine rush when your liver is releasing the cold
shock proteins apparently to fight off oxidative stress and I don't know what else it does
but my brain becomes extremely clear and that's when I like to do stuff that requires my
(08:59):
brain.
Yeah but the same sort of activities in the afternoon when I'm you know in my lull, in
my down, that's just useless.
Yeah I actually am now thinking about whenever I'm doing a painting and I become hyper focused
on the painting sometimes it means meals, mealtimes, go, come and go.
(09:21):
But is that you just not knowing the time or you just so in the moment?
Yeah possibly so in the moment but I and also I do get hyper focused and it's like I can't
do anything else other than some mornings I have got up at 2.30 or 3 o'clock because
I'm thinking about it and I get up and I paint so.
(09:41):
Oh how cool.
But yeah.
And your paintings are awesome.
Well I don't do it very often now.
Oh well.
So that's fine.
Your life has evolved you know international keynote speaker, TED talker, author, you've
got a lot going on Michelle to fit in you know exhibiting artists.
You used to be an exhibiting artist and have big, big, what do you call it?
(10:04):
Exhibitions.
Exhibitions that's the word.
So what we're talking about here is based on so if it's a daily thing rather than maybe
a weekly or monthly thing where you ride the wave of productivity.
So if it's a daily thing it's based on what's called your chronotype.
Your chronotype is a concept I read about years ago where about 40% of the population
(10:24):
are morning people.
So their brain is at its peak in the morning.
30% of the population are at their peak in the middle of the day and then you get your
night owls.
These are the people that can work late into the evenings but you just wouldn't ask them
questions in the morning.
Yeah.
They're not morning people.
But I'm a morning person.
I am too.
So my brain's peak is definitely in the morning and so what we teach in the productivity course
(10:47):
is that you should always focus on the more difficult, challenging, brain thinky tasks
in the morning.
So I always try and work on any development work.
So if I'm building training material, training resources, editing, whatever it is, if it
requires me to concentrate I'll do that in the morning but my afternoons are for admin,
easy stuff.
(11:08):
And so if you can start to think about when is your brain able to concentrate during the
day?
When are you at your peak?
When can you really get into the zone?
Although research says nobody's getting into the zone anymore because of all these digital
distractions.
But if you concentrate and you're in your peak in the morning then focus on your more
(11:28):
difficult, more challenging or even the stuff that drives your creativity.
Do that when you're at your peak rather than trying to slog it out when you're not.
Okay, I'm going to challenge this.
That's all fine and dandy in a perfect world.
There is no such thing as a perfect world.
That's right.
But in a perfect workplace where you can do that.
(11:48):
So coming from shift work as I have, it doesn't always work and often there are high levels
of brain juice required.
As you can tell I'm not at my peak right now because I can't think of the words.
But you've got to be on.
So what did you do?
You're a pilot, you're flying internationally, you've got people behind you who you're responsible
(12:12):
for.
What do you do in those situations?
Well, we were taught to, you know, your coffee naps, so that's the adenosine in your brain
which is like the filter, the cotton wool.
If you have a coffee and then have a nap straight away, potentially when you're low workload,
then 20 minutes is all you need.
(12:34):
By that time the adenosine will have dissipated and the caffeine gets straight like has the
process.
I've heard about caffeine naps, I didn't know that was going on.
Yeah, so it's 20 naps, you have to really have to make sure it's only 20 minutes, not
20 naps.
Well that's the active time of, that's when caffeine wakes you up.
(12:56):
Yeah.
So that's how we would manage that.
Having rest if you could.
I generally couldn't because I was on the 737, we didn't have a crew rest area, it was
you rest in your seat and there were rules around it, company rules around how long the
flight had to be and all these sorts of things.
(13:16):
So that didn't always work.
Of course.
Water, have lots of water to wake you up and then get to sleep when you could.
But again, shift work, you'd have four days on and we were speaking to some doctors the
other night.
That's right.
And they have a similar experience, you have say four days on.
(13:38):
They had seven, wasn't it?
Seven days on?
They had seven, so in my shift for example, if my roster would have four days on and it
would be three earlys, so you are awake or getting up at say three o'clock in the morning,
three thirty in the morning and then the last day of your four day roster, it would be coming
(14:02):
in for the red eye, like not the red eye, the curfew chase or something.
So you'd be doing a late flight, which is when the last previous three days you've been
in bed asleep.
So you'd be taxing on your body as a pilot.
Yeah, yeah.
I'd never thought about it from that perspective, how challenging it would be, you know, constantly
battling your own bio rhythms and stuff like that.
Well, yeah, doctors are the same.
(14:24):
Anyone.
I'm feeling very fortunate now.
I go to work, talk on stage or run a workshop and then I'm leaving, still when my brain's
peaking.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I don't have any any tips for shift workers, unfortunately.
I do remember in uni taking a job in a service station where I did the midnight shift.
(14:50):
I did it once.
I quit the next day.
I couldn't do it.
I couldn't stay awake.
I was on my feet sleeping and I woke up, I hit my head against the display case behind
me.
Like it was no one coming.
Hey, can I have petrol please?
Why are you sleeping?
I couldn't do it.
I really couldn't do it.
My brain just wouldn't allow me and I said to the guy the next day, he was a lovely man.
(15:11):
He owned the petrol station and he couldn't get anyone to do that shift.
No one.
And he was sick of doing it himself.
And I said to him, I'm so sorry.
I fell asleep about 10 times and he said, that's okay.
I can't find anyone.
He went back to doing it himself.
And I remember actually filling up there one night and I walked in there and he looked
at me.
You don't want to do it again.
(15:33):
Yeah.
So I'm sorry to those listening who are on shift work.
I don't have any answers for you.
But yeah, that's a challenge.
So the productivity thing that we're talking about, I suppose, is the fact that we've been
driving ourselves going hard, riding that wave, the peak, and now coming off the other
(15:54):
side, it's just one foot in front of the other.
And then just acknowledging that you need a little bit of downtime to recuperate, recharge
and then come back again.
So we need to be kind to ourselves, kind to our partners and talk to each other.
So you check in with your partner, say, hey, where are you at today?
And if they say, I'm at a three, you say, well, I'm going to pick up the slack.
(16:14):
And if they say, I'm at a nine, can you pick up the slack?
I'm operating on a two.
Yeah.
We've got to be kind to ourselves and kind to our partners and ride the wave when we've
got it and accept and enjoy the lols when you're in them.
Yes.
And maybe you're not bollinger to pick yourself up.
I still haven't gotten in touch with this and I don't think that's going to pick you
(16:35):
back up.
That's probably going to put you to sleep.
But Lint might give you a short amount of energy.
See, we're kind of sponsoring these companies and they don't even know about us.
We're asking them to sponsor us.
At least Bose is letting us hear each other while we're talking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, Car Wash Kid, thank you very much.
More dogs.
Ride the wave, Michelle.
That's it.
That's it.
(16:55):
See ya.
Bye.
Well, that was fun.
That was fun.
You're such a clown.
Lady captain.
And who's going to listen to this?
Maybe our nums.
I don't know.
G'day leaders, have you ever felt tired and not able to perform to your peak in this podcast?
(00:06):
Both Michelle and I were exhausted but we decided to do one anyway on the concept of
riding the wave.
So only trying to do the maximum when your energy is at the right level and giving yourself
the opportunity to have a break when you're not, plus other things.
Enjoy.
Why did it count backwards?
Oh no, we're now recording.
(00:28):
What?
Hello captain.
Oh what do I say?
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly.
What are we going to talk about?
I don't know.
So leadership, life and everything else.
Yeah.
And we're barely alive.
I know, I'm struggling.
I know, that's why I said let's record a quick podcast about riding the wave.
I'm going to do a little bit of a
(00:55):
podcast about riding the wave.
Yes, you didn't have the energy and I had a little bit more energy than you but I thought
it was a great opportunity to talk about something that I've only just started to apply to myself
in maybe the last five or six years and that is that when your energy's up, ride the wave.
(01:17):
Be productive, do stuff.
Yes.
But when your energy is low, give yourself a bloody break.
Yeah.
So I said let's go record a podcast about this and he went I'm too tired guy and I said
it's okay, I'll do all the work.
And that reminded me of a concept that we've both heard Brené Brown speak about how when
(01:41):
in her partnership when her energy is low.
Yes.
Yeah.
Her partner picks up the slack.
And you know when his energy is low she picks up the slack.
And so it's not like you have to be equal all the time.
No but also when they're both low which happens because we're not at our 100% that they acknowledge
(02:05):
it and go let's get takeout, let's have two minute noodles, let's just chill on the lounge
let's you know and they actually acknowledge that they aren't low.
And I think well we're going away.
And it's that whole thing of we've been flat out revving, productive and now we're at that
(02:28):
we're just about to go.
We are and it's like we've still got a lot to do but it's struggling so we've just had
some water.
Yeah.
But it's a concept I call ride the wave, ride your wave.
So for years I was very driven, very goal driven, very push, push, push, push, push always
(02:49):
trying to get more out you know achieve, achieve, achieve, you know all of that sort of stuff
you do when you're young and stupid.
But I've realised over the last you know I'm going to guess maybe five years or so that
I have peaks and troughs with regards to my energy, with regards to my mental creativity
and so a lot of the stuff that we do requires certain parts of your brain to be switched
(03:12):
on.
So artists call it their muse when their muse arrives and that's when they write or paint
or create music or whatever it is.
And I've noticed that my creative energy, my logical energy, all of the different types
of thinking that I have to use in different areas of work etc. they come in waves and
(03:35):
I'm starting to become very conscious of those waves and so that I'm not pushing myself,
I'm not trying to achieve things in low periods.
Yeah I think I'm now thinking back to times when I've wanted to, needed to potentially
study say for a sim or something and I become the most prolific chef.
(04:02):
My house is clean, I do everything other than study and it's yeah I'm not in the right frame
of mind which potentially I could net, sometimes I wouldn't get in the right frame of mind
it was only when panic set in.
Oh my goodness like that deadline thing was yeah the urgency stepped up.
Do it!
(04:24):
And that's contrary to one of the things I teach.
I know, I know.
That a lot of people say oh I work better under pressure, no you just simply work, it's
the pressure that's making you work.
You can't avoid it any longer.
No.
But you say you've got energy but you haven't got the right sort of energy.
Right.
Yeah and that's about identifying that hold on I'm just not feeling it at the moment so
(04:45):
I'm going to give myself a break.
Now obviously in life you can't always choose when your waves are, you know when to ride
which wave you've, you know you've got to get out of bed and you've got to get the kids
ready for school or you've got to make dinner for the family or you've got to do that report
that the boss is screaming at you for.
So you can't always choose.
I understand that this isn't a black and white thing but it's about identifying that whatever
(05:09):
role you have, whatever you know hobbies you have, you know you're going to have peaks
and troughs and accept those peaks and troughs and ride them.
Ride them when they're up and have a rest when they're down.
So don't push yourself because I used to get really hard on myself.
Yeah.
Yeah I used to beat myself up.
Why you know why couldn't you be productive this week?
Why couldn't you do that?
(05:30):
And then that would get me into a bit of a spiral and then my energy would go down and
I'd still be kicking myself a week later.
But now, now that I've come to terms with my peaks and troughs, I'm finding that when
I am at my peak I'm incredibly productive and when I'm at my low I just allow myself
to you know teeter along, do with a bare minimum, do what's required.
(05:53):
Nothing ever falls through the cracks.
Like I'm not ever going to let you know an area of my life suffer greatly because of
it.
But yeah I just like this concept and it just came to mind when both of us were looking
at each other this night.
I'm exhausted.
Yes.
Well this week I set a goal to a challenge to myself that I wanted to edit my book.
(06:20):
Yes.
And I think there are 68 stories in there at the moment that chapters, chapters yes.
And I was feeling today a bit like I didn't complete it.
I did 25 which fell short of the 68.
However I've done 25 which is I'm, I now have to go I've done 25 which is pretty good
(06:43):
in a week.
But I ran out of, I just couldn't.
Thinking juice.
Yeah I couldn't.
I'm like no.
Yeah.
I call it talking juice when I can't talk and thinking juice when I can't think.
Yeah.
Yeah but if you look at the way that book has been written, it's been written on the
peak of the waves.
Yes.
And it had pauses on the lows.
Yeah.
And actually the lows they're sitting with it and just kind of observing life and not
(07:08):
actually producing gave me then started to fill me with creative juices and a different,
possibly a different way of thinking about it rather than how I was just you know turning
through.
Do you know how Albert Einstein used that?
No.
So he used to, he knew that there was a certain wakeness state.
(07:29):
Yes.
That his best creativity, best thinking would come from and so and I believe quite a few
people I've only ever heard about Albert doing this.
My mate Albert you know.
Al.
Al.
Yeah how'd you know that's what I call him.
Anyway he used to have naps right in his office.
He'd hold his keys in his hand.
(07:51):
Yeah.
He would lie down on his credenza or is that a word credenza?
No isn't that a sideboard, a credenza?
Yeah okay.
You know what's a sideboard?
Chez Lange.
He'd lie down on his couch, basically have his hand hanging over the edge of the couch
over a saucepan and so he'd start to go to sleep but then as he fell into you know he's
(08:13):
just about to fall into deep sleep his hand would open, the keys would drop, they'd make
a big sound, they'd wake him up.
He'd then get up and in that state he came up with his best ideas.
I hope it was Albert Einstein that's what I read on the internet and everything on the
internet is true.
Must be true.
Yeah it's about you knowing your peaks and troughs and when do you perform at your peak,
(08:34):
what do you need to do?
Yeah.
Yeah like at the moment I'm getting up early in the morning, the first thing I do is have
a cold shower to wake myself up.
If you haven't looked into cold showers look into it.
But that feeling afterwards, the dopamine rush when your liver is releasing the cold
shock proteins apparently to fight off oxidative stress and I don't know what else it does
but my brain becomes extremely clear and that's when I like to do stuff that requires my
(08:59):
brain.
Yeah but the same sort of activities in the afternoon when I'm you know in my lull, in
my down, that's just useless.
Yeah I actually am now thinking about whenever I'm doing a painting and I become hyper focused
on the painting sometimes it means meals, mealtimes, go, come and go.
(09:21):
But is that you just not knowing the time or you just so in the moment?
Yeah possibly so in the moment but I and also I do get hyper focused and it's like I can't
do anything else other than some mornings I have got up at 2.30 or 3 o'clock because
I'm thinking about it and I get up and I paint so.
(09:41):
Oh how cool.
But yeah.
And your paintings are awesome.
Well I don't do it very often now.
Oh well.
So that's fine.
Your life has evolved you know international keynote speaker, TED talker, author, you've
got a lot going on Michelle to fit in you know exhibiting artists.
You used to be an exhibiting artist and have big, big, what do you call it?
(10:04):
Exhibitions.
Exhibitions that's the word.
So what we're talking about here is based on so if it's a daily thing rather than maybe
a weekly or monthly thing where you ride the wave of productivity.
So if it's a daily thing it's based on what's called your chronotype.
Your chronotype is a concept I read about years ago where about 40% of the population
(10:24):
are morning people.
So their brain is at its peak in the morning.
30% of the population are at their peak in the middle of the day and then you get your
night owls.
These are the people that can work late into the evenings but you just wouldn't ask them
questions in the morning.
Yeah.
They're not morning people.
But I'm a morning person.
I am too.
So my brain's peak is definitely in the morning and so what we teach in the productivity course
(10:47):
is that you should always focus on the more difficult, challenging, brain thinky tasks
in the morning.
So I always try and work on any development work.
So if I'm building training material, training resources, editing, whatever it is, if it
requires me to concentrate I'll do that in the morning but my afternoons are for admin,
easy stuff.
(11:08):
And so if you can start to think about when is your brain able to concentrate during the
day?
When are you at your peak?
When can you really get into the zone?
Although research says nobody's getting into the zone anymore because of all these digital
distractions.
But if you concentrate and you're in your peak in the morning then focus on your more
(11:28):
difficult, more challenging or even the stuff that drives your creativity.
Do that when you're at your peak rather than trying to slog it out when you're not.
Okay, I'm going to challenge this.
That's all fine and dandy in a perfect world.
There is no such thing as a perfect world.
That's right.
But in a perfect workplace where you can do that.
(11:48):
So coming from shift work as I have, it doesn't always work and often there are high levels
of brain juice required.
As you can tell I'm not at my peak right now because I can't think of the words.
But you've got to be on.
So what did you do?
You're a pilot, you're flying internationally, you've got people behind you who you're responsible
(12:12):
for.
What do you do in those situations?
Well, we were taught to, you know, your coffee naps, so that's the adenosine in your brain
which is like the filter, the cotton wool.
If you have a coffee and then have a nap straight away, potentially when you're low workload,
then 20 minutes is all you need.
(12:34):
By that time the adenosine will have dissipated and the caffeine gets straight like has the
process.
I've heard about caffeine naps, I didn't know that was going on.
Yeah, so it's 20 naps, you have to really have to make sure it's only 20 minutes, not
20 naps.
Well that's the active time of, that's when caffeine wakes you up.
(12:56):
Yeah.
So that's how we would manage that.
Having rest if you could.
I generally couldn't because I was on the 737, we didn't have a crew rest area, it was
you rest in your seat and there were rules around it, company rules around how long the
flight had to be and all these sorts of things.
(13:16):
So that didn't always work.
Of course.
Water, have lots of water to wake you up and then get to sleep when you could.
But again, shift work, you'd have four days on and we were speaking to some doctors the
other night.
That's right.
And they have a similar experience, you have say four days on.
(13:38):
They had seven, wasn't it?
Seven days on?
They had seven, so in my shift for example, if my roster would have four days on and it
would be three earlys, so you are awake or getting up at say three o'clock in the morning,
three thirty in the morning and then the last day of your four day roster, it would be coming
(14:02):
in for the red eye, like not the red eye, the curfew chase or something.
So you'd be doing a late flight, which is when the last previous three days you've been
in bed asleep.
So you'd be taxing on your body as a pilot.
Yeah, yeah.
I'd never thought about it from that perspective, how challenging it would be, you know, constantly
battling your own bio rhythms and stuff like that.
Well, yeah, doctors are the same.
(14:24):
Anyone.
I'm feeling very fortunate now.
I go to work, talk on stage or run a workshop and then I'm leaving, still when my brain's
peaking.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, I don't have any any tips for shift workers, unfortunately.
I do remember in uni taking a job in a service station where I did the midnight shift.
(14:50):
I did it once.
I quit the next day.
I couldn't do it.
I couldn't stay awake.
I was on my feet sleeping and I woke up, I hit my head against the display case behind
me.
Like it was no one coming.
Hey, can I have petrol please?
Why are you sleeping?
I couldn't do it.
I really couldn't do it.
My brain just wouldn't allow me and I said to the guy the next day, he was a lovely man.
(15:11):
He owned the petrol station and he couldn't get anyone to do that shift.
No one.
And he was sick of doing it himself.
And I said to him, I'm so sorry.
I fell asleep about 10 times and he said, that's okay.
I can't find anyone.
He went back to doing it himself.
And I remember actually filling up there one night and I walked in there and he looked
at me.
You don't want to do it again.
(15:33):
Yeah.
So I'm sorry to those listening who are on shift work.
I don't have any answers for you.
But yeah, that's a challenge.
So the productivity thing that we're talking about, I suppose, is the fact that we've been
driving ourselves going hard, riding that wave, the peak, and now coming off the other
(15:54):
side, it's just one foot in front of the other.
And then just acknowledging that you need a little bit of downtime to recuperate, recharge
and then come back again.
So we need to be kind to ourselves, kind to our partners and talk to each other.
So you check in with your partner, say, hey, where are you at today?
And if they say, I'm at a three, you say, well, I'm going to pick up the slack.
(16:14):
And if they say, I'm at a nine, can you pick up the slack?
I'm operating on a two.
Yeah.
We've got to be kind to ourselves and kind to our partners and ride the wave when we've
got it and accept and enjoy the lols when you're in them.
Yes.
And maybe you're not bollinger to pick yourself up.
I still haven't gotten in touch with this and I don't think that's going to pick you
(16:35):
back up.
That's probably going to put you to sleep.
But Lint might give you a short amount of energy.
See, we're kind of sponsoring these companies and they don't even know about us.
We're asking them to sponsor us.
At least Bose is letting us hear each other while we're talking.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Anyway, Car Wash Kid, thank you very much.
More dogs.
Ride the wave, Michelle.
That's it.
That's it.
(16:55):
See ya.
Bye.
Well, that was fun.
That was fun.
You're such a clown.
Lady captain.
And who's going to listen to this?
Maybe our nums.
I don't know.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com