October 3, 2024 • 35 mins
In this episode, we explore the often-dreaded world of public speaking. Our discussion covers:
- Overcoming a fear of public speaking
- The prevalence of public speaking anxiety, even amongst people who you'd think would take it in their stride
- Techniques for building energy before taking the stage
- Effective ways to open a presentation
- The NITS communication structure
- Tips for connecting with your audience
- Strategies for regaining focus if you lose your place
Join us as we dive into these topics and more, offering insights and practical advice for anyone looking to improve their public speaking skills.
Whether you're preparing for a TED talk or just want to feel more comfortable speaking in front of others, this episode has something for you!
Remember to like, subscribe, and share if you enjoyed this episode. Got questions or topics you'd like us to cover? Leave a comment below!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
G'day leaders, I've got my voice back and in this podcast, Michelle and I talk about
(00:05):
the fear of public speaking.
Again, we've already done a podcast on this but we've had so many people come up to us
recently and say, oh, I couldn't do what you do.
And Michelle's got an interesting story about a captain that we were flying with and how
he also has this fear.
But anyway, you'll hear the story in the podcast.
We share some tips on how to overcome the fear at the start of a presentation or a speech
(00:30):
and we discuss all of the techniques that we use.
Enjoy.
Why did it count backwards?
Oh no, we're now recording.
What?
Hello captain.
What do I...
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly.
What are we going to talk about?
I don't know.
So, leadership, life and everything else.
(01:01):
And we're live.
No, we're recording.
And my voice is back.
It is, yes.
It's good to be able to speak.
You probably enjoyed it when I couldn't.
No, no.
It was good.
I'm glad you've been able to hear it.
It feels good to be able to actually hit the high register too.
I had to talk like this in order just to get any sand out.
(01:23):
It was quite uncomfortable and funny.
You actually had someone come up to you the other day and say, oh, your voice is back.
Yeah, I know.
I didn't realize they listened to the podcast.
That was cool.
That was very, very cool.
How are you, Michelle?
I'm good.
It's been a nice and full month.
It has been, hasn't it?
Lots of workshops and keynotes and travel.
(01:44):
What have we been doing since the last time?
Well, we did the TED Talk.
The TED Talk, that's right.
And been traveling all over the countryside.
Yeah, the TED Talk went so well.
Can't wait for it to come out.
Yeah, it's not out yet.
So, we won't say it went well.
It did very well.
(02:04):
As all speakers do, you watched it and you went, oh, I wish I had have done something
differently, but that's how you get better at things, isn't it?
Well, it was interesting, actually.
Good feedback for me was the dress rehearsal because I had an expectation.
In the previous podcast about doing the preparing for TEDx, how I needed to know it off my heart
(02:29):
like a script.
Yeah.
And I was nervous about that or excited, but on the inside.
And the dress rehearsal, thankfully, there was a dress rehearsal.
So, speaking one, a script, so I learned script.
And then having been in a place where I couldn't see the audience because the light was quite
(02:53):
bright, threw me a little for six.
And then, yeah, it was funny how little things derail you.
Yeah.
And then, so that night, I kind of beat myself up a bit.
The dress rehearsal night.
Yeah, the dress rehearsal night.
I remember.
Then the following night, though, having had that experience, it's like, oh, okay, you
can prepare, you know.
(03:15):
And yeah, that was a lot easier, a lot better.
It was brilliant.
I enjoyed it so much.
It threw me that, oh, hang on, I can do this.
Why did I, you know, why was it daunting?
Why did it throw me?
It's because we allow thoughts to come into our mind that don't contribute to success,
which is one of the reasons why we wanted to have this podcast today.
(03:36):
So you were on a flight recently, and a pilot said something to you quite interesting, I
find actually quite amazing.
Yeah, so we were flying up to Darwin, one of our regular flights up to Darwin.
And because everyone knows you on these planes.
Yeah, well, that's right.
One of my former colleagues was the captain, and he saw me board the plane.
(03:56):
So that's a very...
Is that a ship or a ferry?
That's probably actually the ship, the P&O crew.
Oh, there we go.
Okay.
Sorry about that.
So he came out of the flight deck during the flight and signaled to come up and have a
chat.
And he was saying how he has a morbid fear of public speaking, which that happens.
(04:20):
It's the number one fear in humans.
I had it when I was growing up.
Yeah.
And he was actually a group of the other pilots currently going to Toastmasters because they
know, whilst they know their standard PAs, you know, that's basically in the book that
they need to do.
Can you give us one now?
You've put me on the spot.
(04:40):
I can't actually think of one.
Okay.
We're flying at 3000 feet.
3000?
Python 10?
I don't know.
A scud running.
737, 3000 feet coastal.
And he was saying, so yeah, standard, everything going well, PA.
(05:02):
He's behind the closed door and he does it.
He admitted he does it in one breath.
How hard would that be?
Ladies and gentlemen, we're currently flying at 20,000 feet.
50, 60?
I don't know.
Please just notice to your right hand side, we have the Sydney Hub of Rich.
Anyway, I don't know what they say and I'm on a plane every day.
(05:24):
Every day, the voice nearly went again.
So he said it's when there's an emergency or an abnormal or something off script, it
freaks him out and he either doesn't do it, gets his other colleagues and the first officer
to say it or, you know, scripts that writes it down on a piece of paper and then reads
(05:48):
it.
And he said it really, it's debilitating.
Wow.
So imagine having the skill and confidence to fly a plane and yet, and with the door
closed and nobody can see you, nobody knows who you are, struggle with doing a voiceover.
Yeah.
And so he's a very good pilot.
(06:10):
He comes across as confident pilot and person and this does, you know, it sends him into
a bit of a panic and he said he's not the only one.
Because he's admitted it, other pilots are coming to him saying they also have this pilot.
Should we create a course?
PAs for pilots.
We could.
(06:31):
Add it to the list of courses that we run at New Memory.
That's amazing because a lot of people over the last few weeks have come up to me with
similar things.
I was on a podcast yesterday with a great guy, Steve Singh, and he mentioned he's got
a best man speech coming up and he wants to, you know, so he's starting to feel the excitement
(06:53):
and the nerves and we have a chat about it.
But he's a gifted speaker.
He's a speaker as well.
And so it's a common thing.
Even people who are professionals.
You felt a bit of nerves going into the TED talk.
He's got the best man speech.
We were speaking to somebody the other day and he said, oh, what do you do?
And we both said, we have speakers and trainers.
(07:16):
And he said, oh, I take my hat off.
And you could hear in his voice, couldn't you?
Oh, I take my hat off to you being able to speak in front of people.
And like two seconds earlier, he was all confident and talking about what he did and all that
sort of stuff.
It's such a common fear.
So we thought we'd do another podcast about it.
Yeah.
To try and help people.
We have spoken on fear of public speaking before, but we recently did a workshop at...
(07:41):
The Cerebral Palsy Alliance.
Yes.
One of our favorite clients.
These are beautiful people, so if you haven't heard of them, look them up.
The Cerebral Palsy Alliance, an amazing not-for-profit that looks after people with cerebral palsy
and they're in disability care as well.
And they are just the most beautiful organization.
Well, you walk into the building and you just feel joy.
Yeah.
(08:02):
You feel like you're getting a big hug.
Yeah.
So we did a presenting and public speaking workshop for how many people?
About 40, 50.
Yeah.
Yeah, we helped them overcome any fear of public speaking and stand up and be able to
do it confidently.
Well, it's also good for me because every time I come along and either listen to you
(08:24):
or participate, it reminds me of things that I could be adding or, oh, I used to do this.
Why don't I do it now?
And just...
Yeah.
I love it.
We might give them a few tips today.
Yeah.
So I'll kick us off.
One of the first things I teach when you're going to be speaking in front of people, a
lot of people wait until they're standing at the front in their presenter stance or
(08:48):
behind the lectern before they actually start speaking.
Now, if you're in a room where they can hear you, I always say, start speaking as you're
walking up or, you know...
It's about energy management.
And so you may notice that...
And I don't know if we've ever discussed this, but when people are coming into the room,
I'm instantly talking to them.
(09:09):
Even though I'm setting up, I'm getting my laptop ready and everything and the microphone's
all set up or whatever we need to do, I start talking to people because I teach this to
others that you can create an energy in the room like it's just a conversation.
So they come into the room, you go, oh, good day, how are you going?
Where are you coming in from?
Did you have far to travel?
And whatever small talk you want to do.
(09:31):
And what it does is it makes them feel comfortable, makes you feel comfortable.
You're already talking to them.
So it's just like having a conversation with a friend.
And if you do that with everyone as they come in, morning, morning, grab a seat, hey, going,
morning, morning, you have the opportunity to build the energy in the room.
And so that when you're walking up to start your presentation or your speech or whatever
it is that you're doing, you've already got this energy with this audience.
(09:53):
You've already got this connection with them.
And then it's like you've already started.
So the presentation starts not when you're standing at the front, the presentation starts
the minute you're in the room and you build up that energy.
And I was actually telling them in the workshop, I was saying, hey, guys, the presentation
doesn't start when you're at the front.
It starts the minute you walk into the room and that's your opportunity to start talking,
(10:16):
engaging and building the sort of energy that you want in the room.
Similar to you, however, I also use the opportunity for compliments because I've noticed that
when people come to workshops or they're coming to a conference for and they hear speakers,
they're dressed up.
People are smiling.
(10:38):
It's an opportunity for them to get out of the office.
And so people have put in a lot of effort and they look amazing.
They feel amazing.
You can see it's a different energy.
So I compliment on that and I get, because as we've discussed before, compliments not
only work for the person who's being complimented, but the one giving the compliment.
(10:59):
And so I feed off that energy.
And then again, like you just said, it's like you then having a conversation when you're
out the front because you're relatable, you're known and you know them.
And you've already built some rapport.
I like that strategy.
I'm going to steal that one if that's okay.
I think I've probably given a couple of compliments, but I've never done it in like, what's the
(11:20):
your new term?
Intentionally, train intentionally?
Yes, not habitually.
Not habitually.
Yeah, train intentionally, not habitually.
So yeah, I'm going to start doing that because that would really work.
As they come in, like I'd have to be careful.
Oh, nice shoes to a lady.
I think I'm flirting, but yeah, just dropping compliments and making that connection.
Well, last week, this week just gone, I was speaking at the executive assistant network
(11:46):
signature series and they're all speaking in Melbourne as well.
Yes, that's coming up.
But it was all these people are beautiful and their executive assistants, they're that
kind of the front line.
And I, when I was thinking, like it was coming up, I was thinking there's my big fat Greek
wedding, I think it is the movie.
(12:07):
And the mum talks about the husband and the wife and how the husband is the head of the
family.
So I'm thinking the C-suite, the whoever, the executive is the head and the executive
assistants are the neck.
They turn the head where they want to, they support the head.
I like that, that's a good analogy.
(12:30):
So that's what I was thinking when I was thinking about executive assistants.
Yeah.
So you had a room of well dressed and beautiful people.
Beautiful people.
And so you were dropping compliments?
I was, it was very easy.
And I was looking at them for style tips.
I like what you've done there.
I bet you had your flight suit on, your jumpsuit.
Yes, my fashionable flight suit.
(12:53):
So I wouldn't use that, but yeah, you can start talking about outfits and stuff with
the audience members and yeah, just building that rapport, getting the energy going before
you're actually up the front.
It's such a great strategy because you feel like you've already started.
And so stop putting a line at the start.
All right, it starts now.
Now it starts as soon as you get in there and build up the energy, build up the rapport
(13:15):
and get, if you can get people laughing before you start, it's brilliant.
And then like I was kind of alluding to at the start, start talking as you're walking
up to the front.
If you do need to walk up onto a stage or whatever, our friend Heidi does it as well.
So you just start talking and then the presentation has started and it feels quite relaxing.
I was actually teaching a group in Melbourne and I told them this because I was getting
(13:40):
them to stand up and present in front of their colleagues.
It was a leadership workshop at Bell Potter.
And I was saying, hey guys, here's a tip.
Before you get up to the front of the room and start sharing what you are getting out
of these workshops, what I want you to do is start talking.
Pretend that the presentation starts before you get up there and watch what happens.
Watch the difference.
And they all did it.
(14:01):
They all did it.
They were all starting to talk as they were walking up and they were sitting down and
going, yeah, that makes a huge difference.
Yeah, if you wait until you're up the front and like, you know, we talk about how we are
the spotlight rather than the spotlight being on you.
And they said, yeah, it's just a huge difference.
It's like a casual conversation.
And then somebody else had actually said to them, oh, no, no, no, you don't talk until
(14:25):
you're up the front.
It's just not professional.
And so I said to them, no, you do what makes you comfortable.
You do what makes the audience comfortable.
It's not about, hey, here are the rules for what you have to do.
Yeah, I've heard one where the person was saying, okay, you go up there, get into position,
legs apart, teeth and tits.
(14:45):
Okay, tell me more about that.
You know, you get onto your spot, you put your legs apart.
Yeah, yeah, you present a stance.
You present a stance, that's right.
And then smile, so teeth and tits is put your shoulders back and chest out.
And then start.
What are you looking at?
(15:08):
I couldn't do that.
Yeah, it's very much a I've arrived.
I've arrived.
Okay.
Which could work in some, I suppose, depending on what you were doing.
Do what works for you.
That's the thing, isn't it?
It's not about...
There's no right way.
Yeah.
No, that's exactly it.
So if something works for you and it works for the audience, use it.
(15:29):
Just use it.
So what other tips can we give to help?
I know one, here's one.
So the way you start a presentation.
Okay, so a lot of people, they get up and they just start talking.
The best way to engage your audience and get their attention is to ask them a question.
Yes.
Yeah, and not an open question because you don't want to ask an open question that requires
(15:51):
people to answer out loud.
So what you do is you just whack your hand up and you go, hey, just a show of hands,
who has...
And then finish your question, whatever it is.
And if you can tie your question into what you're talking about, then you've grabbed
their attention.
You've got immediate interaction.
Because if you put your hand up and say, hey, who's ever had this happen or who's ever done
this or whatever, when they put their hand up, they're now engaged.
(16:15):
That's a great way to just unblock the connection between you.
Not unblock, but start the connection between you and the audience.
I like that.
And I've been using the same question for 30 years now.
It gets a laugh.
But when people have heard it before...
They yell it out.
Yeah, exactly.
Somebody yelled it out once, oh, you've been in my talk before.
(16:39):
And then the other day, I did it.
There was only three people in the room who hadn't met me.
And so I'm really just introducing myself to them.
And then everyone else is sitting there going, oh, we know what he's going to ask.
And they laughed the first time, right?
And so I asked the question, there are three people who hadn't met me before.
They laughed because it's this silly joke that I do.
(16:59):
But then I said, oh, and you guys didn't laugh because you've heard it all before.
And I made them laugh.
And then now all of a sudden, we've got this great energy in the room.
So asking a question at the start is a great way to get people connected and paying attention.
Do you have any other techniques that you use?
Like I noticed, I won't give it away.
You used a great one the other day.
(17:20):
Yeah, I tried it.
I had fun with it.
And so I tried a different approach, which was a sound.
A sound, yeah.
It was a loud sound, too.
It was.
It was lightning, yeah.
Lightning, yeah.
Do you mind giving it away on the podcast?
No, no, that's fine.
So one of the stories I talk about in Antifragility is one time the aircraft I was flying, a small
(17:44):
aircraft, was struck by lightning and what happened.
So for my talk the other day, I thought, oh, and I'd been to a professional speakers association.
Which we're members of.
Yes, yeah.
And they had an information or a learning session.
Yeah, we have regular sessions with the PSA.
(18:04):
Yeah, and Mads Farrelly, who people may know her.
She's a producer.
Now, if I get this wrong, this is bad.
But she was-
She worked in media.
Yeah, thinking she was a producer of shows like Big Brother and Pharma Once Wife, et
cetera.
Yeah, yeah.
And so shows where they go against the norm and a little bit shocking and there's clickbaity
(18:27):
sort of things.
Attention grabbing stuff.
Yeah, and she was doing a presentation on things you could use and she didn't say sound
necessarily but it was something I thought, oh, I'll give it a go.
Have a bit of a play, which makes it exciting for yourself.
Will it work?
Won't it work?
And the AV guy, he was cool.
He's like, oh, I've not seen this before or heard it.
(18:49):
And so it was very important that he be on the same page as me and we did it and it was
great.
It got screams.
It got a couple of swear words, expletives and then there's that shock thing and straight
into telling the story and then getting some engagement and laughs after.
So it makes it a little bit different.
(19:10):
It was good.
And I loved how he then, oh, I should have checked to see if anyone's afraid of flying.
Yeah, oops.
Oops.
But then you reassured them.
I did.
I did.
Yeah, yeah.
So that was fun.
That was, yeah.
That was fun.
That was fun.
That was fun.
So there's all sorts of techniques you can do at the start to just get it going and knock
(19:34):
away any fears that you've built up in your head.
You could show a picture.
Yeah, pictures, it says a thousand words.
Yeah, you click the button, the picture comes up, everyone's looking at the picture, they're
not looking at you.
You go, hey guys, who's been here?
Or what does this look like?
What is this?
You could do something unusual to spark their attention.
But all of these things, it kind of gets the presentation going and get you out of your
(19:56):
head.
Yes.
Yeah.
And that's the big thing that I do to help people who've got a fear of public speaking.
The number one fear of human beings is public speaking.
Is when they're talking to me.
Like the other day somebody said, oh, I'm okay when I'm in front of just a small group.
But as soon as I'm in front of a big, and you can hear that they're about to say the
record that they've played in their head a thousand times.
(20:19):
I'm okay in front of small groups, but in front of big groups, I get really nervous.
And as soon as they say, but, I jump in.
I go, used to.
And they go, what?
I said, used to.
Used to feel like that.
Used to be like that.
That's the past.
And they go, what?
What?
I said, if you want the future to be different, if you want to feel comfortable in front of
a large group, stop saying you feel uncomfortable in a large group.
(20:41):
And we've spoken about this on the podcast, ad nauseam.
Your subconscious mind is listening to everything you tell it.
Everything you tell it, and it will obey those instructions.
Because it's a robot.
Your subconscious mind doesn't question what you're saying.
So if you say, I'm okay in front of small groups, you'll be okay in front of small groups.
Because your subconscious mind will say, right, this is a small group.
We're fine.
But if you say, but I get really nervous in front of large groups.
(21:03):
As soon as you're in front of a large group, your subconscious mind goes, oh, this is that
situation you told me about where we get really nervous.
Okay.
And it sends a message to the adrenal glands to release all of the hormones and put you
into a fight or flight state and make you nervous and all of a sudden you're sweaty
and losing your mind.
And it's all a program that you put into your head.
(21:24):
One thing Maz said in that course, the workshop, was that if you're speaking after someone
who's well known, someone who's polished, someone who's professional, you may need to
give a talk or get up and give a presentation even to your colleagues after the CEO or a
(21:46):
speaker, professional speaker or someone, which in your mind could add to your nervousness,
to your fear.
And she said, just reframe it as they've warmed up the audience for you.
Yeah, that's it.
That's it.
So now they're receptive and they're loose and they're, you know, and the same thing
if there's a particularly dry presentation before you, don't worry if they're yawning
(22:10):
and on their phones or on their laptops because you'll, you know, blow them away.
Yeah, I like that.
So if there's a great speaker before you, what a fantastic opportunity to ride the wave
of the energy that they created in the room.
And you see this a lot with standup comedians.
They get up and go, oh, how amazing was, and then they say the name of the person before
(22:34):
them and what they've done is they've joined the audience in their appreciation of the
previous speaker or comedian.
They've harnessed that energy that you're, it's like putting a lasso around that energy
jumping on it and riding it like a horse.
So if you have a speaker before you or a comedian before you or anyone who's done something
before you and they're amazing, that's a great thing for you because your audience is feeling
(22:58):
great.
Jump on that energy.
So you walk up onto the stage, don't start your presentation and say, how amazing was
that speech?
You know, who knew that?
And then reference a couple of things.
And that's why I think it's so, so important that when you're presenting, if there's other
speakers, so if you're on a day where there's multiple speakers, like we often do, we go
(23:18):
to conferences and we often have to do keynotes after several other speakers have been there,
it's great to sit there and listen.
And so when you get up on stage, if you can reference the previous speakers that were
up there before you and talk about something that they shared, what you're doing is you're
showing one that you've been present to, you were part of the audience.
(23:40):
So you're just like them.
And it makes a connection with you and the audience.
It says, hey, I've been here with you too.
I'm one of you.
Let's now go down this path and talk about this.
I like it.
It's so interesting with your audience by referencing the energy of the previous speaker.
(24:02):
It's such a common fear, isn't it?
The fact that they're sitting there at the front in the cockpit, the doors closed behind
them and you're just talking into a headset and yet that still creates that massive fear.
Because I guess they're visualizing however many hundred people behind them.
Yeah, which we don't do when we're flying.
So that's something I haven't had a problem with.
(24:27):
So it was hard to imagine.
But I was very grateful that he told me that.
If you were in a similar situation where you're in the cockpit flying the plane and you're
feeling nerves about the PA, what would you do?
What advice would you give to your fellow captains?
I was very fortunate.
(24:48):
I trained with Captain Pete Sherry, who's a legend in Virgin and I'm not sure he's doing
command training anymore.
However, he's still an amazing mentor and font of knowledge.
And he was saying that, so we get told in an emergency situation how to communicate
to the cabin crew, for example, and to even on the radio to air traffic control and to
(25:13):
ops and being in aviation, everything is an acronym.
And it's NIPS, which is nature, intent, time, special circumstances.
So nature of the incident or the accident or whatever's happening.
The intent, where we're going to go, what we're going to do, climb, descend, seatbelts
(25:34):
on, return to A, go forward to B or go to C or D. And then time, how much time it is
before and known to them.
So either before the seatbelt signs go on or they need to be seated or until we're landing.
And then special circumstances might be something like upon landing, we'll have the fire brigade
(25:55):
following us back to the bay or we're not going to park on the bay or we'll be at the
bay for three minutes and the seatbelt signs will stay on.
So is that an acronym to help you like fill in control of the situation or plan for the
situation or all the above, I guess?
It's to communicate what's going to happen.
It also helps us because we can sort out in our mind in an easy logical sequence what's
(26:18):
going to happen.
And then we get them to repeat it back.
So we know that they've understood our intention.
And so Pete Sherry, he said to us in the command course, when you're giving a PA, now if it's
a standard out of the book PA, that's easy, it's like a script.
(26:39):
It's the non-normals, something's gone wrong, something unusual.
Something's changed.
Something's changed, yeah.
So use that format, use the NITS format.
Now it doesn't have to be officially the nature of blah, blah, blah, just doing the flow.
Ladies and gentlemen, the nature of our diversion from Sydney is...
We stopped saying ladies and gentlemen because it's everyone.
So there's no longer only ladies or...
(27:01):
Hey everyone.
Hey guys.
Hey, hey, hey, good morning, everyone.
Good morning.
Do you really?
I've never noticed that.
I've been on a plane forever and haven't noticed the change.
They don't now say ladies and gentlemen because there are many more than just ladies and gentlemen.
All right, all people on board.
And those cats up in the locker that you used.
All right, that's another story.
(27:23):
What he was saying is imagine and picture in your mind, close your eyes if you want to,
picture in your mind that it's your nana or your mom or your friend, relatives who you
really love and you want to give them the information without alarming them, but respectfully.
(27:44):
And so if you would close your eyes and imagine you're telling it to your nana and smile a
bit like how receptionists are told to smile when they answer the phone.
Because you can hear it in their voice.
Yeah.
So smile, even though it might be a grave situation, smile and think of your nana.
You're explaining it to nana.
So it's no big words and you would do it compassionately.
(28:07):
You would do it slowly.
Are you saying my nana can't understand big words?
No, but what I'm saying is you wouldn't talk about the different weather systems.
It's just going to be raining.
Hey nana, we've got cumulus out the window.
That's right.
So yeah, imagine that.
(28:29):
And then it's easier, the passengers, if they're actually listening, will understand.
They'll be reassured because your tone is that of compassion.
It's slowed down.
You're doing things in a nicer way rather than just because you're scared of actually
doing the PA, rushing it out or mumbling or just in one breath.
(28:52):
So it's getting yourself into the right mindset using that NITS acronym.
And then imagining speaking to your nana.
And then it's not a challenge because you love your nana or you love whoever you're
telling.
So it's a conversation.
And the imagination is a very powerful thing when you want to change your state.
So yeah, imagine you're speaking to your nana or a bunch of your closest friends who are
(29:12):
sitting in rows one, two and three, I guess.
And yeah, just speak to them.
That's good advice.
I like that you can visualize who you're talking to.
Remember the old thing, imagine everyone naked.
Could you imagine any more nerve wracking than that?
No, yeah, I don't want to imagine any of them naked.
(29:33):
That's awful.
I bet your nana, that's much nicer.
And I don't want to imagine you're naked either.
And just like while we've been talking, I've been thinking about my first instincts when
you said that there was captains at the front and I was quite shocked that they were nervous
about giving the PA.
The reason why I guess I was shocked is because I just assumed these amazing individuals at
the front and I've always revered pilots and captains and first officers for what they
(29:57):
do at the front, especially seeing how I'm sitting in the back and you're taking me to
my destination.
You trust.
I trust you.
And so I give all people in those sort of positions instant reverence.
Yes.
Yep.
So when you said that some of them, yeah, just my first thought was what, really?
(30:17):
You can fly a plane, but you can't talk.
But that's me as a speaker, as a trainer, somebody who does it every day for a living.
It's like, it would be like your friends up in the cockpit looking at me going, what?
You can't fly a plane?
That's how I now look at my reaction to you first telling me that some captains out there
struggle with the PAs.
(30:40):
Because we assume that what we do and what we do easily, other people find easy.
Yes.
Well, it is the number one fear of human beings.
That's right.
So I think that's good advice.
Use the NITS acronym and speak to your Nana.
Nana.
Nana.
Nana.
So when you're on stage and if you're presenting, talking, if you lose your way, just say, oh,
(31:05):
where was I?
And then often the audience will tell you where you were.
Yeah.
Because they're waiting for the next thing.
And so I do this so often in workshops where somebody will ask a question, it takes me
off on a tangent and I go, okay, where were we before?
And then I'll tell you where we were and you just get back on track and you keep going.
So many people are scared about making mistakes or not knowing an answer or forgetting what
(31:28):
they're saying when they're on stage.
But you become human when you make little mistakes and you don't pretend it didn't
happen.
You become human if you go, oh, that's not what I wanted to say.
No, this is what I want to say.
I start tap dancing.
Do you?
Yeah.
You haven't shown me that skill.
Is this another thing we have to add to your resume?
(31:49):
Not well.
Not well.
Okay.
Welding, archaeology, artistry.
No, just tap dancing.
It's like, oh.
So you've got to train it.
And tap dancing.
Okay.
But you did ballet there for a while.
Yeah.
So you got tap and ballet.
As most young girls did in the 80s.
Is there any end to your skills?
That's actually what our class said the other day.
(32:09):
Is there anything she can't do?
And I went, no, it shits me.
Yes, Captain and the Clown.
We ran a workshop.
It's an amazing accounting firm.
And the Fox Group.
Yeah.
That was fun.
It was fun.
They're such a warm and happy and fun group of people, weren't they?
Yeah.
They said it was like having the podcast, like a live podcast.
(32:33):
Yeah.
We've heard that a few times that, you know, oh, I listen to your voice every day in the
car and now you're here live.
It's weird.
But how cool were they?
Yeah.
Such an amazing group of people based up in the Central Coast.
Well, it was fun.
Everyone, we all had our shoes off.
And so that was good.
And then it was just, you know, you can see different organisations.
(32:58):
Shit goes in, shit comes out.
This organisation, just the, it was like a big love-in, love-fest.
They clearly hire good people.
That's right.
And the food was healthy food.
And everyone was...
They looked after everyone.
I know.
Yeah.
It was so nice.
Well, it's something I often talk about in team building and leadership courses is that
(33:21):
it's so easy to create a good culture when you just focus on a few small things like
hire good people, create a warm, friendly environment, look after people.
But it's easier to do in a small organisation because the bigger the organisation, the easier
it is for pessimism to spread and, you know, typical human whinging and that sort of stuff.
But gee, they were great.
(33:42):
They were so positive and welcoming and warm.
And we've worked with them a couple of times now and I love those days.
It was fun.
Yeah.
It was a lot of fun.
And I finished off a workshop last week in Melbourne.
It was a six-month programme.
We had tears at the end.
We were so sad it was finishing.
Yeah, they become like family.
It does.
It does.
We're so lucky that we get to do what we do.
(34:04):
All right.
Let's stop bragging.
This is a bit wanky.
Anyway, so if anyone's ever been a little bit scared, a bit nervous about a presentation
or a speech, firstly, realise that the chemicals in your body when you're feeling nerves are
exactly the same as the chemicals in your body when you're feeling excitement.
So just say that you're excited, you're looking forward to it and use some of the strategies
(34:28):
that we've shared on this podcast and previous podcasts because public speaking and presenting
to others, it's a gift.
You're giving knowledge.
You're giving information.
How beautiful is that?
And we've told stories to each other to pass on knowledge for millennia.
Any last thoughts, Michelle?
None.
None.
(34:49):
You're looking at me going, I wanted to cut that bit out, but you didn't.
We're going to end this now.
All right.
Oh, and the Fox Group, thank you so much for the little gift of bollinger and lint chocolates.
So good.
Oh my God.
We didn't...
We may have eaten a couple of the lint chocolates on the way home.
But we do not say this at the end of the podcast where people would have been buying his gifts.
(35:13):
Thank you to those who have done that, Ben Bainton.
Yeah, and Ed, early learning.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, so thank you so much for the lovely gifts.
But we're actually looking for Bollinger to sponsor the podcast.
Come on, Bollinger.
And lint to sponsor, and Bose to sponsor the podcast.
Whoever's out there.
We've still got the car wash, kid.
(35:34):
We do.
Anyway, good to see you again, Joe.
Fantastic.
Thanks, guys.
Bye.
Bye.
Well, that was fun.
That was fun.
You're such a clown.
The clown.
Lady captain.
And who's going to listen to this?
Maybe our mums.
Thanks, mum.
G'day leaders, I've got my voice back and in this podcast, Michelle and I talk about
(00:05):
the fear of public speaking.
Again, we've already done a podcast on this but we've had so many people come up to us
recently and say, oh, I couldn't do what you do.
And Michelle's got an interesting story about a captain that we were flying with and how
he also has this fear.
But anyway, you'll hear the story in the podcast.
We share some tips on how to overcome the fear at the start of a presentation or a speech
(00:30):
and we discuss all of the techniques that we use.
Enjoy.
Why did it count backwards?
Oh no, we're now recording.
What?
Hello captain.
What do I...
Come fly with me, let's fly, let's fly.
What are we going to talk about?
I don't know.
So, leadership, life and everything else.
(01:01):
And we're live.
No, we're recording.
And my voice is back.
It is, yes.
It's good to be able to speak.
You probably enjoyed it when I couldn't.
No, no.
It was good.
I'm glad you've been able to hear it.
It feels good to be able to actually hit the high register too.
I had to talk like this in order just to get any sand out.
(01:23):
It was quite uncomfortable and funny.
You actually had someone come up to you the other day and say, oh, your voice is back.
Yeah, I know.
I didn't realize they listened to the podcast.
That was cool.
That was very, very cool.
How are you, Michelle?
I'm good.
It's been a nice and full month.
It has been, hasn't it?
Lots of workshops and keynotes and travel.
(01:44):
What have we been doing since the last time?
Well, we did the TED Talk.
The TED Talk, that's right.
And been traveling all over the countryside.
Yeah, the TED Talk went so well.
Can't wait for it to come out.
Yeah, it's not out yet.
So, we won't say it went well.
It did very well.
(02:04):
As all speakers do, you watched it and you went, oh, I wish I had have done something
differently, but that's how you get better at things, isn't it?
Well, it was interesting, actually.
Good feedback for me was the dress rehearsal because I had an expectation.
In the previous podcast about doing the preparing for TEDx, how I needed to know it off my heart
(02:29):
like a script.
Yeah.
And I was nervous about that or excited, but on the inside.
And the dress rehearsal, thankfully, there was a dress rehearsal.
So, speaking one, a script, so I learned script.
And then having been in a place where I couldn't see the audience because the light was quite
(02:53):
bright, threw me a little for six.
And then, yeah, it was funny how little things derail you.
Yeah.
And then, so that night, I kind of beat myself up a bit.
The dress rehearsal night.
Yeah, the dress rehearsal night.
I remember.
Then the following night, though, having had that experience, it's like, oh, okay, you
can prepare, you know.
(03:15):
And yeah, that was a lot easier, a lot better.
It was brilliant.
I enjoyed it so much.
It threw me that, oh, hang on, I can do this.
Why did I, you know, why was it daunting?
Why did it throw me?
It's because we allow thoughts to come into our mind that don't contribute to success,
which is one of the reasons why we wanted to have this podcast today.
(03:36):
So you were on a flight recently, and a pilot said something to you quite interesting, I
find actually quite amazing.
Yeah, so we were flying up to Darwin, one of our regular flights up to Darwin.
And because everyone knows you on these planes.
Yeah, well, that's right.
One of my former colleagues was the captain, and he saw me board the plane.
(03:56):
So that's a very...
Is that a ship or a ferry?
That's probably actually the ship, the P&O crew.
Oh, there we go.
Okay.
Sorry about that.
So he came out of the flight deck during the flight and signaled to come up and have a
chat.
And he was saying how he has a morbid fear of public speaking, which that happens.
(04:20):
It's the number one fear in humans.
I had it when I was growing up.
Yeah.
And he was actually a group of the other pilots currently going to Toastmasters because they
know, whilst they know their standard PAs, you know, that's basically in the book that
they need to do.
Can you give us one now?
You've put me on the spot.
(04:40):
I can't actually think of one.
Okay.
We're flying at 3000 feet.
3000?
Python 10?
I don't know.
A scud running.
737, 3000 feet coastal.
And he was saying, so yeah, standard, everything going well, PA.
(05:02):
He's behind the closed door and he does it.
He admitted he does it in one breath.
How hard would that be?
Ladies and gentlemen, we're currently flying at 20,000 feet.
50, 60?
I don't know.
Please just notice to your right hand side, we have the Sydney Hub of Rich.
Anyway, I don't know what they say and I'm on a plane every day.
(05:24):
Every day, the voice nearly went again.
So he said it's when there's an emergency or an abnormal or something off script, it
freaks him out and he either doesn't do it, gets his other colleagues and the first officer
to say it or, you know, scripts that writes it down on a piece of paper and then reads
(05:48):
it.
And he said it really, it's debilitating.
Wow.
So imagine having the skill and confidence to fly a plane and yet, and with the door
closed and nobody can see you, nobody knows who you are, struggle with doing a voiceover.
Yeah.
And so he's a very good pilot.
(06:10):
He comes across as confident pilot and person and this does, you know, it sends him into
a bit of a panic and he said he's not the only one.
Because he's admitted it, other pilots are coming to him saying they also have this pilot.
Should we create a course?
PAs for pilots.
We could.
(06:31):
Add it to the list of courses that we run at New Memory.
That's amazing because a lot of people over the last few weeks have come up to me with
similar things.
I was on a podcast yesterday with a great guy, Steve Singh, and he mentioned he's got
a best man speech coming up and he wants to, you know, so he's starting to feel the excitement
(06:53):
and the nerves and we have a chat about it.
But he's a gifted speaker.
He's a speaker as well.
And so it's a common thing.
Even people who are professionals.
You felt a bit of nerves going into the TED talk.
He's got the best man speech.
We were speaking to somebody the other day and he said, oh, what do you do?
And we both said, we have speakers and trainers.
(07:16):
And he said, oh, I take my hat off.
And you could hear in his voice, couldn't you?
Oh, I take my hat off to you being able to speak in front of people.
And like two seconds earlier, he was all confident and talking about what he did and all that
sort of stuff.
It's such a common fear.
So we thought we'd do another podcast about it.
Yeah.
To try and help people.
We have spoken on fear of public speaking before, but we recently did a workshop at...
(07:41):
The Cerebral Palsy Alliance.
Yes.
One of our favorite clients.
These are beautiful people, so if you haven't heard of them, look them up.
The Cerebral Palsy Alliance, an amazing not-for-profit that looks after people with cerebral palsy
and they're in disability care as well.
And they are just the most beautiful organization.
Well, you walk into the building and you just feel joy.
Yeah.
(08:02):
You feel like you're getting a big hug.
Yeah.
So we did a presenting and public speaking workshop for how many people?
About 40, 50.
Yeah.
Yeah, we helped them overcome any fear of public speaking and stand up and be able to
do it confidently.
Well, it's also good for me because every time I come along and either listen to you
(08:24):
or participate, it reminds me of things that I could be adding or, oh, I used to do this.
Why don't I do it now?
And just...
Yeah.
I love it.
We might give them a few tips today.
Yeah.
So I'll kick us off.
One of the first things I teach when you're going to be speaking in front of people, a
lot of people wait until they're standing at the front in their presenter stance or
(08:48):
behind the lectern before they actually start speaking.
Now, if you're in a room where they can hear you, I always say, start speaking as you're
walking up or, you know...
It's about energy management.
And so you may notice that...
And I don't know if we've ever discussed this, but when people are coming into the room,
I'm instantly talking to them.
(09:09):
Even though I'm setting up, I'm getting my laptop ready and everything and the microphone's
all set up or whatever we need to do, I start talking to people because I teach this to
others that you can create an energy in the room like it's just a conversation.
So they come into the room, you go, oh, good day, how are you going?
Where are you coming in from?
Did you have far to travel?
And whatever small talk you want to do.
(09:31):
And what it does is it makes them feel comfortable, makes you feel comfortable.
You're already talking to them.
So it's just like having a conversation with a friend.
And if you do that with everyone as they come in, morning, morning, grab a seat, hey, going,
morning, morning, you have the opportunity to build the energy in the room.
And so that when you're walking up to start your presentation or your speech or whatever
it is that you're doing, you've already got this energy with this audience.
(09:53):
You've already got this connection with them.
And then it's like you've already started.
So the presentation starts not when you're standing at the front, the presentation starts
the minute you're in the room and you build up that energy.
And I was actually telling them in the workshop, I was saying, hey, guys, the presentation
doesn't start when you're at the front.
It starts the minute you walk into the room and that's your opportunity to start talking,
(10:16):
engaging and building the sort of energy that you want in the room.
Similar to you, however, I also use the opportunity for compliments because I've noticed that
when people come to workshops or they're coming to a conference for and they hear speakers,
they're dressed up.
People are smiling.
(10:38):
It's an opportunity for them to get out of the office.
And so people have put in a lot of effort and they look amazing.
They feel amazing.
You can see it's a different energy.
So I compliment on that and I get, because as we've discussed before, compliments not
only work for the person who's being complimented, but the one giving the compliment.
(10:59):
And so I feed off that energy.
And then again, like you just said, it's like you then having a conversation when you're
out the front because you're relatable, you're known and you know them.
And you've already built some rapport.
I like that strategy.
I'm going to steal that one if that's okay.
I think I've probably given a couple of compliments, but I've never done it in like, what's the
(11:20):
your new term?
Intentionally, train intentionally?
Yes, not habitually.
Not habitually.
Yeah, train intentionally, not habitually.
So yeah, I'm going to start doing that because that would really work.
As they come in, like I'd have to be careful.
Oh, nice shoes to a lady.
I think I'm flirting, but yeah, just dropping compliments and making that connection.
Well, last week, this week just gone, I was speaking at the executive assistant network
(11:46):
signature series and they're all speaking in Melbourne as well.
Yes, that's coming up.
But it was all these people are beautiful and their executive assistants, they're that
kind of the front line.
And I, when I was thinking, like it was coming up, I was thinking there's my big fat Greek
wedding, I think it is the movie.
(12:07):
And the mum talks about the husband and the wife and how the husband is the head of the
family.
So I'm thinking the C-suite, the whoever, the executive is the head and the executive
assistants are the neck.
They turn the head where they want to, they support the head.
I like that, that's a good analogy.
(12:30):
So that's what I was thinking when I was thinking about executive assistants.
Yeah.
So you had a room of well dressed and beautiful people.
Beautiful people.
And so you were dropping compliments?
I was, it was very easy.
And I was looking at them for style tips.
I like what you've done there.
I bet you had your flight suit on, your jumpsuit.
Yes, my fashionable flight suit.
(12:53):
So I wouldn't use that, but yeah, you can start talking about outfits and stuff with
the audience members and yeah, just building that rapport, getting the energy going before
you're actually up the front.
It's such a great strategy because you feel like you've already started.
And so stop putting a line at the start.
All right, it starts now.
Now it starts as soon as you get in there and build up the energy, build up the rapport
(13:15):
and get, if you can get people laughing before you start, it's brilliant.
And then like I was kind of alluding to at the start, start talking as you're walking
up to the front.
If you do need to walk up onto a stage or whatever, our friend Heidi does it as well.
So you just start talking and then the presentation has started and it feels quite relaxing.
I was actually teaching a group in Melbourne and I told them this because I was getting
(13:40):
them to stand up and present in front of their colleagues.
It was a leadership workshop at Bell Potter.
And I was saying, hey guys, here's a tip.
Before you get up to the front of the room and start sharing what you are getting out
of these workshops, what I want you to do is start talking.
Pretend that the presentation starts before you get up there and watch what happens.
Watch the difference.
And they all did it.
(14:01):
They all did it.
They were all starting to talk as they were walking up and they were sitting down and
going, yeah, that makes a huge difference.
Yeah, if you wait until you're up the front and like, you know, we talk about how we are
the spotlight rather than the spotlight being on you.
And they said, yeah, it's just a huge difference.
It's like a casual conversation.
And then somebody else had actually said to them, oh, no, no, no, you don't talk until
(14:25):
you're up the front.
It's just not professional.
And so I said to them, no, you do what makes you comfortable.
You do what makes the audience comfortable.
It's not about, hey, here are the rules for what you have to do.
Yeah, I've heard one where the person was saying, okay, you go up there, get into position,
legs apart, teeth and tits.
(14:45):
Okay, tell me more about that.
You know, you get onto your spot, you put your legs apart.
Yeah, yeah, you present a stance.
You present a stance, that's right.
And then smile, so teeth and tits is put your shoulders back and chest out.
And then start.
What are you looking at?
(15:08):
I couldn't do that.
Yeah, it's very much a I've arrived.
I've arrived.
Okay.
Which could work in some, I suppose, depending on what you were doing.
Do what works for you.
That's the thing, isn't it?
It's not about...
There's no right way.
Yeah.
No, that's exactly it.
So if something works for you and it works for the audience, use it.
(15:29):
Just use it.
So what other tips can we give to help?
I know one, here's one.
So the way you start a presentation.
Okay, so a lot of people, they get up and they just start talking.
The best way to engage your audience and get their attention is to ask them a question.
Yes.
Yeah, and not an open question because you don't want to ask an open question that requires
(15:51):
people to answer out loud.
So what you do is you just whack your hand up and you go, hey, just a show of hands,
who has...
And then finish your question, whatever it is.
And if you can tie your question into what you're talking about, then you've grabbed
their attention.
You've got immediate interaction.
Because if you put your hand up and say, hey, who's ever had this happen or who's ever done
this or whatever, when they put their hand up, they're now engaged.
(16:15):
That's a great way to just unblock the connection between you.
Not unblock, but start the connection between you and the audience.
I like that.
And I've been using the same question for 30 years now.
It gets a laugh.
But when people have heard it before...
They yell it out.
Yeah, exactly.
Somebody yelled it out once, oh, you've been in my talk before.
(16:39):
And then the other day, I did it.
There was only three people in the room who hadn't met me.
And so I'm really just introducing myself to them.
And then everyone else is sitting there going, oh, we know what he's going to ask.
And they laughed the first time, right?
And so I asked the question, there are three people who hadn't met me before.
They laughed because it's this silly joke that I do.
(16:59):
But then I said, oh, and you guys didn't laugh because you've heard it all before.
And I made them laugh.
And then now all of a sudden, we've got this great energy in the room.
So asking a question at the start is a great way to get people connected and paying attention.
Do you have any other techniques that you use?
Like I noticed, I won't give it away.
You used a great one the other day.
(17:20):
Yeah, I tried it.
I had fun with it.
And so I tried a different approach, which was a sound.
A sound, yeah.
It was a loud sound, too.
It was.
It was lightning, yeah.
Lightning, yeah.
Do you mind giving it away on the podcast?
No, no, that's fine.
So one of the stories I talk about in Antifragility is one time the aircraft I was flying, a small
(17:44):
aircraft, was struck by lightning and what happened.
So for my talk the other day, I thought, oh, and I'd been to a professional speakers association.
Which we're members of.
Yes, yeah.
And they had an information or a learning session.
Yeah, we have regular sessions with the PSA.
(18:04):
Yeah, and Mads Farrelly, who people may know her.
She's a producer.
Now, if I get this wrong, this is bad.
But she was-
She worked in media.
Yeah, thinking she was a producer of shows like Big Brother and Pharma Once Wife, et
cetera.
Yeah, yeah.
And so shows where they go against the norm and a little bit shocking and there's clickbaity
(18:27):
sort of things.
Attention grabbing stuff.
Yeah, and she was doing a presentation on things you could use and she didn't say sound
necessarily but it was something I thought, oh, I'll give it a go.
Have a bit of a play, which makes it exciting for yourself.
Will it work?
Won't it work?
And the AV guy, he was cool.
He's like, oh, I've not seen this before or heard it.
(18:49):
And so it was very important that he be on the same page as me and we did it and it was
great.
It got screams.
It got a couple of swear words, expletives and then there's that shock thing and straight
into telling the story and then getting some engagement and laughs after.
So it makes it a little bit different.
(19:10):
It was good.
And I loved how he then, oh, I should have checked to see if anyone's afraid of flying.
Yeah, oops.
Oops.
But then you reassured them.
I did.
I did.
Yeah, yeah.
So that was fun.
That was, yeah.
That was fun.
That was fun.
That was fun.
So there's all sorts of techniques you can do at the start to just get it going and knock
(19:34):
away any fears that you've built up in your head.
You could show a picture.
Yeah, pictures, it says a thousand words.
Yeah, you click the button, the picture comes up, everyone's looking at the picture, they're
not looking at you.
You go, hey guys, who's been here?
Or what does this look like?
What is this?
You could do something unusual to spark their attention.
But all of these things, it kind of gets the presentation going and get you out of your
(19:56):
head.
Yes.
Yeah.
And that's the big thing that I do to help people who've got a fear of public speaking.
The number one fear of human beings is public speaking.
Is when they're talking to me.
Like the other day somebody said, oh, I'm okay when I'm in front of just a small group.
But as soon as I'm in front of a big, and you can hear that they're about to say the
record that they've played in their head a thousand times.
(20:19):
I'm okay in front of small groups, but in front of big groups, I get really nervous.
And as soon as they say, but, I jump in.
I go, used to.
And they go, what?
I said, used to.
Used to feel like that.
Used to be like that.
That's the past.
And they go, what?
What?
I said, if you want the future to be different, if you want to feel comfortable in front of
a large group, stop saying you feel uncomfortable in a large group.
(20:41):
And we've spoken about this on the podcast, ad nauseam.
Your subconscious mind is listening to everything you tell it.
Everything you tell it, and it will obey those instructions.
Because it's a robot.
Your subconscious mind doesn't question what you're saying.
So if you say, I'm okay in front of small groups, you'll be okay in front of small groups.
Because your subconscious mind will say, right, this is a small group.
We're fine.
But if you say, but I get really nervous in front of large groups.
(21:03):
As soon as you're in front of a large group, your subconscious mind goes, oh, this is that
situation you told me about where we get really nervous.
Okay.
And it sends a message to the adrenal glands to release all of the hormones and put you
into a fight or flight state and make you nervous and all of a sudden you're sweaty
and losing your mind.
And it's all a program that you put into your head.
(21:24):
One thing Maz said in that course, the workshop, was that if you're speaking after someone
who's well known, someone who's polished, someone who's professional, you may need to
give a talk or get up and give a presentation even to your colleagues after the CEO or a
(21:46):
speaker, professional speaker or someone, which in your mind could add to your nervousness,
to your fear.
And she said, just reframe it as they've warmed up the audience for you.
Yeah, that's it.
That's it.
So now they're receptive and they're loose and they're, you know, and the same thing
if there's a particularly dry presentation before you, don't worry if they're yawning
(22:10):
and on their phones or on their laptops because you'll, you know, blow them away.
Yeah, I like that.
So if there's a great speaker before you, what a fantastic opportunity to ride the wave
of the energy that they created in the room.
And you see this a lot with standup comedians.
They get up and go, oh, how amazing was, and then they say the name of the person before
(22:34):
them and what they've done is they've joined the audience in their appreciation of the
previous speaker or comedian.
They've harnessed that energy that you're, it's like putting a lasso around that energy
jumping on it and riding it like a horse.
So if you have a speaker before you or a comedian before you or anyone who's done something
before you and they're amazing, that's a great thing for you because your audience is feeling
(22:58):
great.
Jump on that energy.
So you walk up onto the stage, don't start your presentation and say, how amazing was
that speech?
You know, who knew that?
And then reference a couple of things.
And that's why I think it's so, so important that when you're presenting, if there's other
speakers, so if you're on a day where there's multiple speakers, like we often do, we go
(23:18):
to conferences and we often have to do keynotes after several other speakers have been there,
it's great to sit there and listen.
And so when you get up on stage, if you can reference the previous speakers that were
up there before you and talk about something that they shared, what you're doing is you're
showing one that you've been present to, you were part of the audience.
(23:40):
So you're just like them.
And it makes a connection with you and the audience.
It says, hey, I've been here with you too.
I'm one of you.
Let's now go down this path and talk about this.
I like it.
It's so interesting with your audience by referencing the energy of the previous speaker.
(24:02):
It's such a common fear, isn't it?
The fact that they're sitting there at the front in the cockpit, the doors closed behind
them and you're just talking into a headset and yet that still creates that massive fear.
Because I guess they're visualizing however many hundred people behind them.
Yeah, which we don't do when we're flying.
So that's something I haven't had a problem with.
(24:27):
So it was hard to imagine.
But I was very grateful that he told me that.
If you were in a similar situation where you're in the cockpit flying the plane and you're
feeling nerves about the PA, what would you do?
What advice would you give to your fellow captains?
I was very fortunate.
(24:48):
I trained with Captain Pete Sherry, who's a legend in Virgin and I'm not sure he's doing
command training anymore.
However, he's still an amazing mentor and font of knowledge.
And he was saying that, so we get told in an emergency situation how to communicate
to the cabin crew, for example, and to even on the radio to air traffic control and to
(25:13):
ops and being in aviation, everything is an acronym.
And it's NIPS, which is nature, intent, time, special circumstances.
So nature of the incident or the accident or whatever's happening.
The intent, where we're going to go, what we're going to do, climb, descend, seatbelts
(25:34):
on, return to A, go forward to B or go to C or D. And then time, how much time it is
before and known to them.
So either before the seatbelt signs go on or they need to be seated or until we're landing.
And then special circumstances might be something like upon landing, we'll have the fire brigade
(25:55):
following us back to the bay or we're not going to park on the bay or we'll be at the
bay for three minutes and the seatbelt signs will stay on.
So is that an acronym to help you like fill in control of the situation or plan for the
situation or all the above, I guess?
It's to communicate what's going to happen.
It also helps us because we can sort out in our mind in an easy logical sequence what's
(26:18):
going to happen.
And then we get them to repeat it back.
So we know that they've understood our intention.
And so Pete Sherry, he said to us in the command course, when you're giving a PA, now if it's
a standard out of the book PA, that's easy, it's like a script.
(26:39):
It's the non-normals, something's gone wrong, something unusual.
Something's changed.
Something's changed, yeah.
So use that format, use the NITS format.
Now it doesn't have to be officially the nature of blah, blah, blah, just doing the flow.
Ladies and gentlemen, the nature of our diversion from Sydney is...
We stopped saying ladies and gentlemen because it's everyone.
So there's no longer only ladies or...
(27:01):
Hey everyone.
Hey guys.
Hey, hey, hey, good morning, everyone.
Good morning.
Do you really?
I've never noticed that.
I've been on a plane forever and haven't noticed the change.
They don't now say ladies and gentlemen because there are many more than just ladies and gentlemen.
All right, all people on board.
And those cats up in the locker that you used.
All right, that's another story.
(27:23):
What he was saying is imagine and picture in your mind, close your eyes if you want to,
picture in your mind that it's your nana or your mom or your friend, relatives who you
really love and you want to give them the information without alarming them, but respectfully.
(27:44):
And so if you would close your eyes and imagine you're telling it to your nana and smile a
bit like how receptionists are told to smile when they answer the phone.
Because you can hear it in their voice.
Yeah.
So smile, even though it might be a grave situation, smile and think of your nana.
You're explaining it to nana.
So it's no big words and you would do it compassionately.
(28:07):
You would do it slowly.
Are you saying my nana can't understand big words?
No, but what I'm saying is you wouldn't talk about the different weather systems.
It's just going to be raining.
Hey nana, we've got cumulus out the window.
That's right.
So yeah, imagine that.
(28:29):
And then it's easier, the passengers, if they're actually listening, will understand.
They'll be reassured because your tone is that of compassion.
It's slowed down.
You're doing things in a nicer way rather than just because you're scared of actually
doing the PA, rushing it out or mumbling or just in one breath.
(28:52):
So it's getting yourself into the right mindset using that NITS acronym.
And then imagining speaking to your nana.
And then it's not a challenge because you love your nana or you love whoever you're
telling.
So it's a conversation.
And the imagination is a very powerful thing when you want to change your state.
So yeah, imagine you're speaking to your nana or a bunch of your closest friends who are
(29:12):
sitting in rows one, two and three, I guess.
And yeah, just speak to them.
That's good advice.
I like that you can visualize who you're talking to.
Remember the old thing, imagine everyone naked.
Could you imagine any more nerve wracking than that?
No, yeah, I don't want to imagine any of them naked.
(29:33):
That's awful.
I bet your nana, that's much nicer.
And I don't want to imagine you're naked either.
And just like while we've been talking, I've been thinking about my first instincts when
you said that there was captains at the front and I was quite shocked that they were nervous
about giving the PA.
The reason why I guess I was shocked is because I just assumed these amazing individuals at
the front and I've always revered pilots and captains and first officers for what they
(29:57):
do at the front, especially seeing how I'm sitting in the back and you're taking me to
my destination.
You trust.
I trust you.
And so I give all people in those sort of positions instant reverence.
Yes.
Yep.
So when you said that some of them, yeah, just my first thought was what, really?
(30:17):
You can fly a plane, but you can't talk.
But that's me as a speaker, as a trainer, somebody who does it every day for a living.
It's like, it would be like your friends up in the cockpit looking at me going, what?
You can't fly a plane?
That's how I now look at my reaction to you first telling me that some captains out there
struggle with the PAs.
(30:40):
Because we assume that what we do and what we do easily, other people find easy.
Yes.
Well, it is the number one fear of human beings.
That's right.
So I think that's good advice.
Use the NITS acronym and speak to your Nana.
Nana.
Nana.
Nana.
So when you're on stage and if you're presenting, talking, if you lose your way, just say, oh,
(31:05):
where was I?
And then often the audience will tell you where you were.
Yeah.
Because they're waiting for the next thing.
And so I do this so often in workshops where somebody will ask a question, it takes me
off on a tangent and I go, okay, where were we before?
And then I'll tell you where we were and you just get back on track and you keep going.
So many people are scared about making mistakes or not knowing an answer or forgetting what
(31:28):
they're saying when they're on stage.
But you become human when you make little mistakes and you don't pretend it didn't
happen.
You become human if you go, oh, that's not what I wanted to say.
No, this is what I want to say.
I start tap dancing.
Do you?
Yeah.
You haven't shown me that skill.
Is this another thing we have to add to your resume?
(31:49):
Not well.
Not well.
Okay.
Welding, archaeology, artistry.
No, just tap dancing.
It's like, oh.
So you've got to train it.
And tap dancing.
Okay.
But you did ballet there for a while.
Yeah.
So you got tap and ballet.
As most young girls did in the 80s.
Is there any end to your skills?
That's actually what our class said the other day.
(32:09):
Is there anything she can't do?
And I went, no, it shits me.
Yes, Captain and the Clown.
We ran a workshop.
It's an amazing accounting firm.
And the Fox Group.
Yeah.
That was fun.
It was fun.
They're such a warm and happy and fun group of people, weren't they?
Yeah.
They said it was like having the podcast, like a live podcast.
(32:33):
Yeah.
We've heard that a few times that, you know, oh, I listen to your voice every day in the
car and now you're here live.
It's weird.
But how cool were they?
Yeah.
Such an amazing group of people based up in the Central Coast.
Well, it was fun.
Everyone, we all had our shoes off.
And so that was good.
And then it was just, you know, you can see different organisations.
(32:58):
Shit goes in, shit comes out.
This organisation, just the, it was like a big love-in, love-fest.
They clearly hire good people.
That's right.
And the food was healthy food.
And everyone was...
They looked after everyone.
I know.
Yeah.
It was so nice.
Well, it's something I often talk about in team building and leadership courses is that
(33:21):
it's so easy to create a good culture when you just focus on a few small things like
hire good people, create a warm, friendly environment, look after people.
But it's easier to do in a small organisation because the bigger the organisation, the easier
it is for pessimism to spread and, you know, typical human whinging and that sort of stuff.
But gee, they were great.
(33:42):
They were so positive and welcoming and warm.
And we've worked with them a couple of times now and I love those days.
It was fun.
Yeah.
It was a lot of fun.
And I finished off a workshop last week in Melbourne.
It was a six-month programme.
We had tears at the end.
We were so sad it was finishing.
Yeah, they become like family.
It does.
It does.
We're so lucky that we get to do what we do.
(34:04):
All right.
Let's stop bragging.
This is a bit wanky.
Anyway, so if anyone's ever been a little bit scared, a bit nervous about a presentation
or a speech, firstly, realise that the chemicals in your body when you're feeling nerves are
exactly the same as the chemicals in your body when you're feeling excitement.
So just say that you're excited, you're looking forward to it and use some of the strategies
(34:28):
that we've shared on this podcast and previous podcasts because public speaking and presenting
to others, it's a gift.
You're giving knowledge.
You're giving information.
How beautiful is that?
And we've told stories to each other to pass on knowledge for millennia.
Any last thoughts, Michelle?
None.
None.
(34:49):
You're looking at me going, I wanted to cut that bit out, but you didn't.
We're going to end this now.
All right.
Oh, and the Fox Group, thank you so much for the little gift of bollinger and lint chocolates.
So good.
Oh my God.
We didn't...
We may have eaten a couple of the lint chocolates on the way home.
But we do not say this at the end of the podcast where people would have been buying his gifts.
(35:13):
Thank you to those who have done that, Ben Bainton.
Yeah, and Ed, early learning.
Yeah, yeah.
Anyway, so thank you so much for the lovely gifts.
But we're actually looking for Bollinger to sponsor the podcast.
Come on, Bollinger.
And lint to sponsor, and Bose to sponsor the podcast.
Whoever's out there.
We've still got the car wash, kid.
(35:34):
We do.
Anyway, good to see you again, Joe.
Fantastic.
Thanks, guys.
Bye.
Bye.
Well, that was fun.
That was fun.
You're such a clown.
The clown.
Lady captain.
And who's going to listen to this?
Maybe our mums.
Thanks, mum.
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