May 23, 2025 • 26 mins
đź“ť Show Notes Summary
In this powerful episode, Elaine welcomes her first male guest to Captivate the Mic — master trainer, leadership consultant, and communicator Ron Reich. Together, they explore what leadership truly looks like in 2025 and how the best leaders today are creating space, safety, and culture from the inside out.
Ron shares wisdom on how to handle emotionally charged situations using his “PRD Model” (Pause, Reflect, Decide), and offers strategies for building psychological safety, even in blue-collar or high-turnover environments. From feedback stories to leadership blind spots, this conversation is rich with actionable insight and surprising depth.
đź’ˇ Key Takeaways
- PRD Model: Pause, Reflect, then Decide — a powerful tool for responding vs. reacting
- **Why “What’s NOT Changing” is vital during times of transition
- **The real difference between managing and leading
- **How feedback (even the tough kind) can sharpen your leadership if you listen deeply
- **Why top-down culture-building often fails — and what works instead
- **Creating psychological safety starts before the training even begins
- **How to invite quieter team members to contribute without forcing them
🔥 Pull Quotes
- “We don’t talk enough about what’s not changing — that’s where the anchor is.”
- “Leadership isn’t about talking more. It’s about creating the space so others feel safe enough to speak.”
- “You know you’re leading well when you can sit back and drink tea.”
- “Great cultures aren’t dictated. They’re co-created.”
Ron Reich – Leadership Expert | Executive Coach | Corporate Trainer
Ron Reich is a seasoned leadership consultant and executive coach with over 28 years of experience in training design, development, and facilitation. He specializes in cultivating high-performing leaders through impactful leadership and management development, executive coaching, supervision training, and dynamic team-building experiences.
With a deep understanding of organizational behavior and communication dynamics, Ron is known for creating safe, transformative learning environments where individuals and teams thrive. His engaging facilitation style and practical, real-world insights have made him a trusted partner for companies across a wide range of industries.
A lifelong learner and voracious reader, Ron stays at the forefront of leadership trends, research, and best practices through his daily habit of reading articles, newsletters, and books. He brings that curiosity and rigor to every training session and coaching conversation, helping clients evolve with purpose and precision.
Elaine and Ron have been colleagues and friends for years. They both LOVE personal development and the unlimited possibilities of human potential and all things leadership!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
This is Elaine with CaptivateThe Mic, and I am so excited for
this amazing episode that I gotto do with Ron Reich.
All about leadership, missionstatements, workplace culture.
Dig in.
You're gonna love it.
So happy that you're here.
Welcome everybody to Captivatethe Mic with Elaine Williams and
(00:25):
I have the biggest treat foreverybody.
This is the first male on thepodcast because he is such an
amazing spiritual earnest,good-hearted master trainer,
communicator, friend.
Ron Reik, I'm so happy thatyou're here.
(00:47):
Thank you so much for coming andspending some time with us.
Elaine, it's always so good tosee you and I'm always glad to
be here.
I always have so much fun withyou, Ron, because we both love
human potential and training andthere's so many nuances and I
just love that.
And that's one reason I wantedto have you, and you give us
(01:09):
hope because unfortunately,many, like many women, I, I work
mostly with women, but sometimeswe've had to deal with gentlemen
who were not quite so evolved asyou.
Yeah.
And I say that with love and Iknow it's a gross generalization
and we're gonna dig into that.
But, I love you have been aconsultant.
(01:31):
You train all over the world.
I keep hoping that I'm gonna getyou to write a book.
What is your opinion and what'shappening?
We're in the first part of 2025and on social media, it has been
like, whoa.
Everything's it's like adumpster fire.
I'd love to know what your takeis on it.
(01:53):
What has the vibe been for youand your trainings and the, and
your business world?
I think Elaine my right, rightnow, what's happening?
I think a lot of people aretaking a step back and I'm not
sure I wanna say reevaluating, Ithink.
(02:14):
I think they're taking a stepback and just trying to take a
deep breath and evaluate, okay,this is what's going on from so
many different perspectives.
How does it impact me?
How does it impact my business?
And what do you know?
What do I, what do we need to domoving forward?
(02:39):
And for me, that does makesense.
It really does.
One of the biggest mistakespeople make is are making
decisions.
Based on emotion or justreacting so quickly and it is
okay, stop everything or moveforward.
Oh my goodness.
(03:00):
Quickly, everybody, just, andit's alright, settle down, let's
take a look at this.
But, and again, my, the thing Ialways recommend to people,
Elaine, is, within emotionalintelligence, the PRD model.
If I'm emotional or if I need tomake a decision and I'm being
pressed, PRD, pause, reflect.
(03:26):
And then decide how am I goingto handle this?
Do I need to respond on thespot?
Can I ask for some time?
Elena, I need to think aboutthis.
You need to gimme a day to thinkthis through.
Maybe I need to, get some advicefrom somebody else before I make
a decision.
And I think a lot of people arejust taking a step back,
(03:51):
reevaluating and just saying,okay, this is what's happening.
What do we need to do?
And for me.
No matter what, I, I am such abig believer, and you know this
in the serenity prayer of just,God grant me the serenity to
accept the things I cannotchange.
(04:13):
I can't change what's going onaround me right now.
I can't, that I just have nocontrol over that.
What do I control?
My reaction, how do I deal withthese types of things?
And just letting people know,clients, friends, family,
whatever it might be is likeokay.
(04:33):
Here you, this is my thinking onthis.
We are gonna be okay.
We are.
And I believe that with everyfiber I have too I really do as
a nation and just as everythingwe'll be okay.
And with, as with any type ofnew situation, there's gonna be
some rough spots.
There are gonna be some bumps.
(04:54):
Of course there are.
So be it.
So be it.
I love that because I know whenI'm on my spin bike, that's when
I scroll and luckily I've been.
Focusing more on music and dancebecause the Grammys so inspired
(05:14):
me last week.
Yeah.
But it does feel like there's alot of people going, the sky is
falling, the sky is falling.
And what's interesting is I liketo think of myself as not so
reactive, but maybe I shouldjust stop scrolling for a week,
because I still feel like itgets in my psyche and my yes
(05:35):
soul, yes.
And see Elaine, that's one ofthe things over which we have
control, right?
That that's exactly right.
And yeah, I get that.
And part of, part, one, onething too, and actually this is
just occurring to me in themoment.
The one thing that I talk topeople about.
(05:56):
When we're going, when we'retalking about change in the
workplace or really anywhere, isthat okay?
What's the goal of the change?
What's the goal of the change?
The rah part and all that Fine.
One thing though, that I alwayslike to recommend to people to
what's not changing, what's notchanging for you?
(06:19):
Oh my gosh.
I love that.
It's so profound.
But it's like an anchor, isn'tit, Elaine?
Exactly.
I, for example, you sing, I'm onmy spin bike.
My spin bike.
That's not changing.
Elaine.
And for me too, I'm stillwalking Jasmine every day.
We're still going for our walkruns.
You know what?
Whatever it might be.
(06:40):
Lori's still here.
It's okay.
These things are not changing.
So yes.
The world has shifted andthere's a lot going on.
It's not oh my goodness,everything in my life is
different Now, that's not true.
That's just, I love that.
But yeah.
Yeah, human beings, we don'tlike change.
We all know it's part of lifeand all the things, but I love
(07:04):
that and I do feel like this isa great analogy for some of the
stuff that's happening in the USright now.
Because you are a change agent.
You get brought in to help withworkplace culture, help define
the missions, help people bemore effective.
You're always doing stuff likethis.
And I love that.
First of all, this is what's notgonna change.
(07:26):
Duh dah.
That's so okay, everybody take adeep breath.
All right.
That's right.
We're still gonna still have aroof over my head.
Just all of these things.
And you know what, Elaine if youdon't mind, because you're
reminding me of something else,and I don't think you and I have
actually ever talked about this.
(07:47):
Okay?
There's another model.
I like to recommend to clients.
This is more of a of when you'rehaving, you need to have a
difficult conversation withsomebody.
Although off the top of my head,I think it applies to change as
well and very simply.
You ask the people with whomyou're working or if it's one
(08:09):
colleague, whatever it might be.
First of all, I'm sorry, here'sthe situation itself.
Spell it out and on a document,spell it out.
Here's the situation with whichwe're dealing.
Second, what's wrong with it?
In other words, how why do, whyare we changing?
How is your perspectivedifferent than mine?
(08:31):
How, how is it different thanmine?
Write it down.
And then thirdly, and this isthe part that I really like,
what could be right about it?
What could be right about whatI've talked to you about or what
we are considering here.
And then last and not least,what are the steps we need to
(08:55):
take in order to solve thisissue?
Real quickly.
I'll give you an example,please.
Yeah.
Years ago I'm working for avendor.
Okay?
Two day class.
At the end of each day day one,they asked us to do a real
quick, I.
Written survey with theparticipants.
Just a quick snapshot, how didthe day go for you?
(09:17):
Small group.
Seven people end of the day.
And I'm thinking to myself, wehad a great day.
Just a great day.
I'm sure I'm flipping throughthe evals.
Oh yeah, we had a great, oh,dun, the last one.
And I was like, ah, the lastone.
Wait a minute.
The feedback she had writtendown, you talked too much.
(09:40):
I was thinking to myself, okay,first of all, everybody had
left, so I was the only one inthe room, so I didn't need to
pause and reflect.
I wasn't going to say somethingquickly get being serious again,
my first reaction, no way.
No way.
No chance.
No, I did not talk too much.
(10:01):
I don't do that.
It's about a 10 minute walk.
From the office back to thehotel where I stay.
I was in DC the entire walkback.
Elaine.
I'm thinking no.
It wasn't a no chance.
No.
And I'm thinking to myself, Iknow what's going on here.
I do.
Yep.
She's a know-it-all.
She's got a big mouth and shethinks she's, she's the cat's
(10:24):
meow here.
It wasn't me.
No chance.
So I get back to the room.
I'm sitting there and I'm stillthinking about it, and now I
start to think about something.
My old boss, the best boss I wehad her on the show, Barbara
Fulmer said to me years andyears ago, you know what Ron?
(10:44):
Every once in a while, it seemsto me it happens maybe once a
year, maybe every 15 months orso, you fall into the trap where
you tend to tell all the storiesin class and you don't give the
participants the opportunity totell stories.
And I was thinking to myself,you know what?
(11:05):
Self-talk run.
You're falling into that trap.
You're falling into trap.
And my point is simply using themodel, what was the situation,
Ron?
You talk too much.
What's wrong with it?
Now she's a big mouth.
She's a no it all, no chance.
No.
What could be right about it?
(11:28):
And then I was like, wow, thereis some merit to it.
And Elaine to this day, I stilldon't completely agree with her
comment that I talked too much.
There was some merit to it.
So what did I do the next day inorder to solve the problem?
Hey folks, who has a story aboutthis, right?
(11:48):
No.
So does that mean you got thefeedback in the middle of the
training?
Exactly.
This was after day one.
We still had day two to go, so Ichanged my behavior.
Boom.
I love that.
I'm like, oh, I always think ofgetting feedback at the end, but
that's even more brilliant.
(12:09):
And then, one of my mentorstalks about letting people put
their voice into the room, and Iknow I've always.
And group dynamics.
Believe it or not, I used to beshy, but I always feel like I'm
really getting that I'm in theclass or the workshop or the
seminar when I've gotten toshare or process like that just
(12:33):
means I'm like, I'm in, I'mengaged.
And I also know,'cause I atendency to be vulnerable and
sometimes funny and sometimes byme going and being vulnerable,
I've seen it happen where itgives other people permission.
To do the same, and so that'sone of the reasons when I'm in a
group dynamic, I will try andthen I also consciously will be
(12:56):
like, shut up Elaine.
'cause I love to talk too.
It's a different situation, butI, I really try to consciously
be aware of how much am Iputting my voice in the room,
and again, Elaine, you're, youare reminding me of something
that my old colleague Davepointed out to me many years
ago, and I always remember this.
(13:18):
He was like, Ron, he said,remember, he said, the women in
your classes often, not always,many of them will be hesitant to
speak up quickly.
I.
Give them time.
Give them time as you, as theyget to know you better, as they
(13:38):
become more comfortable and asthey get more comfortable with
their surroundings, they willstart sharing.
I.
And that has been my directexperience where again, I need
to be aware.
Just, just again, using you asthe example here.
Oh, Elaine, she's so quiet overthere.
She doesn't say anything.
Give her a chance.
Give her a chance.
(13:59):
Give everybody a chance becauseyou're not sure what's going on.
And that, that goes back toagain, for me, Elaine let's tie
it into how criticalrelationships are.
If I'm doing a session where Idon't know the people, I want to
(14:19):
be in that room at least an hourbefore we start.
So when people come in, I canchat with them.
I can get to know them a littlebit.
More importantly, they can getto know me a little bit and
building rapport.
It's so great.
Exactly.
He's a nice guy.
Oh, okay.
(14:39):
He's, he's, we're alreadytalking just a little bit about
maybe the content or whatever itmight be.
I don't need to be as nervous asI was.
And that is so important justto, again, establishing the
rapport, establishing thepsychological safety.
And it's and that's where it'sboom.
And all of a sudden, who has astory about this?
(15:02):
I do.
I do.
I'll add to that.
And the best thing that canhappen for me is for me to just
keep my mouth shut.
Yeah.
And facilitate.
And to me, that is true masterywhen you can step back and
create the space and allow theothers to come in and do the
work, if you will.
Yeah.
I love that.
(15:23):
I love that.
Someone a, a master facilitator.
I read this somewhere or someoneshared it with me, just said,
you know that you are reallydoing a good job when you can
sit back and drink tea.
And now a quick message.
If you are a speaker, coach,author, or someone who wants to
(15:46):
climb the corporate ladder, andyou know you need to work on
your executive presence, yourability to speak powerfully and
succinctly with vocal varietyand vocal power and presence, I
would love to have a chat withyou and see if it's the right
fit.
Now we're back to the show.
(16:09):
And we'll be right back afterthis break.
So my name is Elaine, and if youhaven't known, stop.
Yep.
And let everybody just do theirthing.
It's yeah, I don't have to worryabout anything.
They're doing all the talking.
Yes.
I have heard a version of thatas well.
I love that.
And so I would love to ask you,I had the privilege of knowing
(16:32):
you and working with you for awhile.
I would love for you to talkabout, maybe the company you're
working with, helping themcreate a mission statement that
they really.
Own that.
It's not just here, we'reputting this on you and Yeah.
Tell us about that.
This has been so much fun.
(16:54):
It really has.
I met Jeff at a session and wejust, we were talking just
randomly, just chatting.
I knew he was the owner of aheavy duty towing company.
In the Midwest and we're justchatting a little bit.
I, I'm just trying to get toknow him.
And he was like, oh yeah, Ron.
He said, things are going sowell.
(17:16):
He said I'm just so happy withwhere we are, we're growing and
so forth.
And he said to me, he said, theone thing I want, I'd like to
establish a formal culture.
And I was like, wow, okay.
We talk some more.
One thing leads to the next and.
(17:38):
I talked to him in depth.
I talked to his right hand man,if you will, in depth as well.
I was ready to go out there andwe were ready to start doing the
actual work to help them todevelop a culture.
Yeah, I talk, what do you wannaaccomplish and what's it like to
work there, and just all theseother things.
And then I got a call from Maya,who was the second in command.
(18:00):
He said to me, we're going in adifferent direction.
My instant reaction was uhoh.
I just lost this, right?
Instead of coming out Ron anddoing the work, what we'd like
you to do, would you please comeout here and spend some time
with us just so we can get toknow each other better.
(18:21):
We'd like you to spend time withsome of the drivers of the
trucks, get to know the peoplewho work here, take a look at
who we are, what we are, how wedo things, what the current
culture is.
And I was like, you guys, if youare willing to do that is
fabulous because I did that inanother life before and I don't
(18:44):
need to get into that part rightnow.
Long story short, I went outthere for three days and had so
much fun.
Just so much fun spending timewith all different kinds of
people.
The top people in theorganization, the people, the
customer service reps the, thepeople in the office.
(19:05):
I was out in the field with someof the tow truck drivers going
to accident scenes.
Just talking with them.
What's it like to work here?
What's it all about?
And that is so important togather all of that information
because this way everybody ownsit.
(19:26):
In other words, once, once westart doing the actual formal
culture work, it's not okay,folks from senior management,
this is what we've decidedculture will be.
It's no.
So many different people at somany different levels had input
into it.
And in I won't get into all ofthe details here, Elaine.
(19:48):
In a day and a half, actually aday and three quarters we
established defined values forthe organization.
We came up with a formal culturestatement by which everybody
agrees, and by which everybodywill live.
(20:10):
And it was fun.
It was fun.
It was an intense day in threequarters.
Everybody, because again, thesepeople are not used to this kind
of work sitting down.
Sure.
And just, we were doing a lot ofstandup activities.
I don't mean to imply we weresitting the whole time still in
a totally different type ofthinking.
(20:32):
In which they were involved.
And it was, it's, it is alwaysfun and I find it funny, at the
end of day one, all of them werejust like, I am so tired.
I can't see strain.
I'm just so tired.
And I was like, they weren'tused to using their brains that
much.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
(20:53):
And at the end of day two, samething.
And then though the key is whatwe decided to do, those were the
first two days with the moresenior leaders.
Although we had input from a lotof people.
Then we had the managers come infor day three and four.
We took them through the entireprocess of how we came up with.
(21:17):
The values, the defined values,the culture statement, and then
we talked about how they coulduse it what was important to
them, what was applicable tothem.
And it's working.
It's just working.
And so you started with the.
People that were not inleadership at first, I talked I
(21:39):
talked to the leaders in theinitial conversations.
Yes.
And then once I went out there,Elaine the senior leaders were
not very involved at all.
No, not at all.
And to me that is such a sign ofpsychological safety that Jeff,
the owner and the other leadershave created, and the
(22:00):
information people were sharingwith me was amazing.
It was just like.
Oh, I love it here.
I love it here.
It is so much fun.
And also not just the fun stuff.
There are some things we need todo differently.
There's no two ways about it.
The other thing people need tobe aware of here, and I give
Jeff and Maya so much credit andthe other leaders, because I
(22:24):
said to them upfront, it waslike, you need to be aware of a
couple things here, folks.
Number one, you're probablygonna lose some people.
Some people are gonna leavewhere it's I don't like this, I
don't want anything to changehere.
And it's and they were like, weknow that and that's okay.
Okay.
And I said, it really asimportant, you may very well
(22:45):
need to let some people go whoare not going to buy into this.
And they're like, we know thattoo.
And that, it just doesn't getany better than that.
And again, it's just, it's allabout what is best for this
organization.
But, and also what I'm hearingthough is, I think one of the
(23:05):
reasons I get so excited talkingwith Ron is I like so many
people, I worked in a lot ofhotel restaurant comedy clubs
and there were many.
Toxic environments and a lot oftimes everyone was just doing
the best they could, but so manytimes people got promoted
because they were there orbecause, sometimes it's like the
(23:26):
worst reason why people getpromoted and then they're
trained to do the.
Checkouts, but they're nottrained how to manage people or
how to motivate how tocommunicate.
And so I get so excited becauseI think what would be possible,
and one of the things thinkingabout you working with the
people who were not in theleadership so many times, that
(23:49):
your people in lines, dealingwith clients and customers, the
ones in the trenches, a lot oftimes they have insights.
Brilliant things'cause they knowwhat it's like to execute or
not.
They are they're on the frontlines.
And many times in my experience,the higher ups don't listen.
(24:13):
So many times you have thesepeople who wanna contribute,
then yes, some, there's always acouple who wanna complain, but a
lot of times there's people whowanna contribute or have ideas.
But if you keep squelching thatdown, they go.
You know what?
Quiet, quitting what?
Fine.
That's right.
And it's heartbreaking.
It's heartbreaking when you careabout.
What you do and you put pride inwhatever.
(24:36):
If you're digging ditches,you're like, I wanna be the best
dig ditch digger, and I have abetter idea about how to, be
more efficient.
Anyway.
So I just think there's so muchhealing that happens.
Oh, like that experience ofbeing heard, being seen, being,
gotten, being appreciated likethat is I, when I was.
(24:57):
An employee, I would just feellike so much loyalty if I felt
like my manager knew what I wasup to and understood my goals
and what drove me.
I would work holidays andweekends and the shitty shifts
because they got me.
They'd be like, Elaine, can youscrub this with a toothbrush?
I'd be like, yes, you got it.
(25:18):
Because I felt like I was inpartnership with them.
But then when I had theexperience of, working with a
lot of no offense and Alphamales who, you know for whatever
reasons it was like oil andwater, or I was a high eye and
they were a d, all that stuff Iwould feel myself like really
detaching.
(25:38):
And not having the best attitude'cause I just felt so frustrated
and not respected, not heard,not gotten.
So anyway, I think the work thatyou do is so profound.
And that is the end of part onewith Ron Reich in leadership.
Make sure you stay tuned forpart two where he goes deeper
(25:59):
into so many great things.
This is Elaine with CaptivateThe Mic, and I am so excited for
this amazing episode that I gotto do with Ron Reich.
All about leadership, missionstatements, workplace culture.
Dig in.
You're gonna love it.
So happy that you're here.
Welcome everybody to Captivatethe Mic with Elaine Williams and
(00:25):
I have the biggest treat foreverybody.
This is the first male on thepodcast because he is such an
amazing spiritual earnest,good-hearted master trainer,
communicator, friend.
Ron Reik, I'm so happy thatyou're here.
(00:47):
Thank you so much for coming andspending some time with us.
Elaine, it's always so good tosee you and I'm always glad to
be here.
I always have so much fun withyou, Ron, because we both love
human potential and training andthere's so many nuances and I
just love that.
And that's one reason I wantedto have you, and you give us
(01:09):
hope because unfortunately,many, like many women, I, I work
mostly with women, but sometimeswe've had to deal with gentlemen
who were not quite so evolved asyou.
Yeah.
And I say that with love and Iknow it's a gross generalization
and we're gonna dig into that.
But, I love you have been aconsultant.
(01:31):
You train all over the world.
I keep hoping that I'm gonna getyou to write a book.
What is your opinion and what'shappening?
We're in the first part of 2025and on social media, it has been
like, whoa.
Everything's it's like adumpster fire.
I'd love to know what your takeis on it.
(01:53):
What has the vibe been for youand your trainings and the, and
your business world?
I think Elaine my right, rightnow, what's happening?
I think a lot of people aretaking a step back and I'm not
sure I wanna say reevaluating, Ithink.
(02:14):
I think they're taking a stepback and just trying to take a
deep breath and evaluate, okay,this is what's going on from so
many different perspectives.
How does it impact me?
How does it impact my business?
And what do you know?
What do I, what do we need to domoving forward?
(02:39):
And for me, that does makesense.
It really does.
One of the biggest mistakespeople make is are making
decisions.
Based on emotion or justreacting so quickly and it is
okay, stop everything or moveforward.
Oh my goodness.
(03:00):
Quickly, everybody, just, andit's alright, settle down, let's
take a look at this.
But, and again, my, the thing Ialways recommend to people,
Elaine, is, within emotionalintelligence, the PRD model.
If I'm emotional or if I need tomake a decision and I'm being
pressed, PRD, pause, reflect.
(03:26):
And then decide how am I goingto handle this?
Do I need to respond on thespot?
Can I ask for some time?
Elena, I need to think aboutthis.
You need to gimme a day to thinkthis through.
Maybe I need to, get some advicefrom somebody else before I make
a decision.
And I think a lot of people arejust taking a step back,
(03:51):
reevaluating and just saying,okay, this is what's happening.
What do we need to do?
And for me.
No matter what, I, I am such abig believer, and you know this
in the serenity prayer of just,God grant me the serenity to
accept the things I cannotchange.
(04:13):
I can't change what's going onaround me right now.
I can't, that I just have nocontrol over that.
What do I control?
My reaction, how do I deal withthese types of things?
And just letting people know,clients, friends, family,
whatever it might be is likeokay.
(04:33):
Here you, this is my thinking onthis.
We are gonna be okay.
We are.
And I believe that with everyfiber I have too I really do as
a nation and just as everythingwe'll be okay.
And with, as with any type ofnew situation, there's gonna be
some rough spots.
There are gonna be some bumps.
(04:54):
Of course there are.
So be it.
So be it.
I love that because I know whenI'm on my spin bike, that's when
I scroll and luckily I've been.
Focusing more on music and dancebecause the Grammys so inspired
(05:14):
me last week.
Yeah.
But it does feel like there's alot of people going, the sky is
falling, the sky is falling.
And what's interesting is I liketo think of myself as not so
reactive, but maybe I shouldjust stop scrolling for a week,
because I still feel like itgets in my psyche and my yes
(05:35):
soul, yes.
And see Elaine, that's one ofthe things over which we have
control, right?
That that's exactly right.
And yeah, I get that.
And part of, part, one, onething too, and actually this is
just occurring to me in themoment.
The one thing that I talk topeople about.
(05:56):
When we're going, when we'retalking about change in the
workplace or really anywhere, isthat okay?
What's the goal of the change?
What's the goal of the change?
The rah part and all that Fine.
One thing though, that I alwayslike to recommend to people to
what's not changing, what's notchanging for you?
(06:19):
Oh my gosh.
I love that.
It's so profound.
But it's like an anchor, isn'tit, Elaine?
Exactly.
I, for example, you sing, I'm onmy spin bike.
My spin bike.
That's not changing.
Elaine.
And for me too, I'm stillwalking Jasmine every day.
We're still going for our walkruns.
You know what?
Whatever it might be.
(06:40):
Lori's still here.
It's okay.
These things are not changing.
So yes.
The world has shifted andthere's a lot going on.
It's not oh my goodness,everything in my life is
different Now, that's not true.
That's just, I love that.
But yeah.
Yeah, human beings, we don'tlike change.
We all know it's part of lifeand all the things, but I love
(07:04):
that and I do feel like this isa great analogy for some of the
stuff that's happening in the USright now.
Because you are a change agent.
You get brought in to help withworkplace culture, help define
the missions, help people bemore effective.
You're always doing stuff likethis.
And I love that.
First of all, this is what's notgonna change.
(07:26):
Duh dah.
That's so okay, everybody take adeep breath.
All right.
That's right.
We're still gonna still have aroof over my head.
Just all of these things.
And you know what, Elaine if youdon't mind, because you're
reminding me of something else,and I don't think you and I have
actually ever talked about this.
(07:47):
Okay?
There's another model.
I like to recommend to clients.
This is more of a of when you'rehaving, you need to have a
difficult conversation withsomebody.
Although off the top of my head,I think it applies to change as
well and very simply.
You ask the people with whomyou're working or if it's one
(08:09):
colleague, whatever it might be.
First of all, I'm sorry, here'sthe situation itself.
Spell it out and on a document,spell it out.
Here's the situation with whichwe're dealing.
Second, what's wrong with it?
In other words, how why do, whyare we changing?
How is your perspectivedifferent than mine?
(08:31):
How, how is it different thanmine?
Write it down.
And then thirdly, and this isthe part that I really like,
what could be right about it?
What could be right about whatI've talked to you about or what
we are considering here.
And then last and not least,what are the steps we need to
(08:55):
take in order to solve thisissue?
Real quickly.
I'll give you an example,please.
Yeah.
Years ago I'm working for avendor.
Okay?
Two day class.
At the end of each day day one,they asked us to do a real
quick, I.
Written survey with theparticipants.
Just a quick snapshot, how didthe day go for you?
(09:17):
Small group.
Seven people end of the day.
And I'm thinking to myself, wehad a great day.
Just a great day.
I'm sure I'm flipping throughthe evals.
Oh yeah, we had a great, oh,dun, the last one.
And I was like, ah, the lastone.
Wait a minute.
The feedback she had writtendown, you talked too much.
(09:40):
I was thinking to myself, okay,first of all, everybody had
left, so I was the only one inthe room, so I didn't need to
pause and reflect.
I wasn't going to say somethingquickly get being serious again,
my first reaction, no way.
No way.
No chance.
No, I did not talk too much.
(10:01):
I don't do that.
It's about a 10 minute walk.
From the office back to thehotel where I stay.
I was in DC the entire walkback.
Elaine.
I'm thinking no.
It wasn't a no chance.
No.
And I'm thinking to myself, Iknow what's going on here.
I do.
Yep.
She's a know-it-all.
She's got a big mouth and shethinks she's, she's the cat's
(10:24):
meow here.
It wasn't me.
No chance.
So I get back to the room.
I'm sitting there and I'm stillthinking about it, and now I
start to think about something.
My old boss, the best boss I wehad her on the show, Barbara
Fulmer said to me years andyears ago, you know what Ron?
(10:44):
Every once in a while, it seemsto me it happens maybe once a
year, maybe every 15 months orso, you fall into the trap where
you tend to tell all the storiesin class and you don't give the
participants the opportunity totell stories.
And I was thinking to myself,you know what?
(11:05):
Self-talk run.
You're falling into that trap.
You're falling into trap.
And my point is simply using themodel, what was the situation,
Ron?
You talk too much.
What's wrong with it?
Now she's a big mouth.
She's a no it all, no chance.
No.
What could be right about it?
(11:28):
And then I was like, wow, thereis some merit to it.
And Elaine to this day, I stilldon't completely agree with her
comment that I talked too much.
There was some merit to it.
So what did I do the next day inorder to solve the problem?
Hey folks, who has a story aboutthis, right?
(11:48):
No.
So does that mean you got thefeedback in the middle of the
training?
Exactly.
This was after day one.
We still had day two to go, so Ichanged my behavior.
Boom.
I love that.
I'm like, oh, I always think ofgetting feedback at the end, but
that's even more brilliant.
(12:09):
And then, one of my mentorstalks about letting people put
their voice into the room, and Iknow I've always.
And group dynamics.
Believe it or not, I used to beshy, but I always feel like I'm
really getting that I'm in theclass or the workshop or the
seminar when I've gotten toshare or process like that just
(12:33):
means I'm like, I'm in, I'mengaged.
And I also know,'cause I atendency to be vulnerable and
sometimes funny and sometimes byme going and being vulnerable,
I've seen it happen where itgives other people permission.
To do the same, and so that'sone of the reasons when I'm in a
group dynamic, I will try andthen I also consciously will be
(12:56):
like, shut up Elaine.
'cause I love to talk too.
It's a different situation, butI, I really try to consciously
be aware of how much am Iputting my voice in the room,
and again, Elaine, you're, youare reminding me of something
that my old colleague Davepointed out to me many years
ago, and I always remember this.
(13:18):
He was like, Ron, he said,remember, he said, the women in
your classes often, not always,many of them will be hesitant to
speak up quickly.
I.
Give them time.
Give them time as you, as theyget to know you better, as they
(13:38):
become more comfortable and asthey get more comfortable with
their surroundings, they willstart sharing.
I.
And that has been my directexperience where again, I need
to be aware.
Just, just again, using you asthe example here.
Oh, Elaine, she's so quiet overthere.
She doesn't say anything.
Give her a chance.
Give her a chance.
(13:59):
Give everybody a chance becauseyou're not sure what's going on.
And that, that goes back toagain, for me, Elaine let's tie
it into how criticalrelationships are.
If I'm doing a session where Idon't know the people, I want to
(14:19):
be in that room at least an hourbefore we start.
So when people come in, I canchat with them.
I can get to know them a littlebit.
More importantly, they can getto know me a little bit and
building rapport.
It's so great.
Exactly.
He's a nice guy.
Oh, okay.
(14:39):
He's, he's, we're alreadytalking just a little bit about
maybe the content or whatever itmight be.
I don't need to be as nervous asI was.
And that is so important justto, again, establishing the
rapport, establishing thepsychological safety.
And it's and that's where it'sboom.
And all of a sudden, who has astory about this?
(15:02):
I do.
I do.
I'll add to that.
And the best thing that canhappen for me is for me to just
keep my mouth shut.
Yeah.
And facilitate.
And to me, that is true masterywhen you can step back and
create the space and allow theothers to come in and do the
work, if you will.
Yeah.
I love that.
(15:23):
I love that.
Someone a, a master facilitator.
I read this somewhere or someoneshared it with me, just said,
you know that you are reallydoing a good job when you can
sit back and drink tea.
And now a quick message.
If you are a speaker, coach,author, or someone who wants to
(15:46):
climb the corporate ladder, andyou know you need to work on
your executive presence, yourability to speak powerfully and
succinctly with vocal varietyand vocal power and presence, I
would love to have a chat withyou and see if it's the right
fit.
Now we're back to the show.
(16:09):
And we'll be right back afterthis break.
So my name is Elaine, and if youhaven't known, stop.
Yep.
And let everybody just do theirthing.
It's yeah, I don't have to worryabout anything.
They're doing all the talking.
Yes.
I have heard a version of thatas well.
I love that.
And so I would love to ask you,I had the privilege of knowing
(16:32):
you and working with you for awhile.
I would love for you to talkabout, maybe the company you're
working with, helping themcreate a mission statement that
they really.
Own that.
It's not just here, we'reputting this on you and Yeah.
Tell us about that.
This has been so much fun.
(16:54):
It really has.
I met Jeff at a session and wejust, we were talking just
randomly, just chatting.
I knew he was the owner of aheavy duty towing company.
In the Midwest and we're justchatting a little bit.
I, I'm just trying to get toknow him.
And he was like, oh yeah, Ron.
He said, things are going sowell.
(17:16):
He said I'm just so happy withwhere we are, we're growing and
so forth.
And he said to me, he said, theone thing I want, I'd like to
establish a formal culture.
And I was like, wow, okay.
We talk some more.
One thing leads to the next and.
(17:38):
I talked to him in depth.
I talked to his right hand man,if you will, in depth as well.
I was ready to go out there andwe were ready to start doing the
actual work to help them todevelop a culture.
Yeah, I talk, what do you wannaaccomplish and what's it like to
work there, and just all theseother things.
And then I got a call from Maya,who was the second in command.
(18:00):
He said to me, we're going in adifferent direction.
My instant reaction was uhoh.
I just lost this, right?
Instead of coming out Ron anddoing the work, what we'd like
you to do, would you please comeout here and spend some time
with us just so we can get toknow each other better.
(18:21):
We'd like you to spend time withsome of the drivers of the
trucks, get to know the peoplewho work here, take a look at
who we are, what we are, how wedo things, what the current
culture is.
And I was like, you guys, if youare willing to do that is
fabulous because I did that inanother life before and I don't
(18:44):
need to get into that part rightnow.
Long story short, I went outthere for three days and had so
much fun.
Just so much fun spending timewith all different kinds of
people.
The top people in theorganization, the people, the
customer service reps the, thepeople in the office.
(19:05):
I was out in the field with someof the tow truck drivers going
to accident scenes.
Just talking with them.
What's it like to work here?
What's it all about?
And that is so important togather all of that information
because this way everybody ownsit.
(19:26):
In other words, once, once westart doing the actual formal
culture work, it's not okay,folks from senior management,
this is what we've decidedculture will be.
It's no.
So many different people at somany different levels had input
into it.
And in I won't get into all ofthe details here, Elaine.
(19:48):
In a day and a half, actually aday and three quarters we
established defined values forthe organization.
We came up with a formal culturestatement by which everybody
agrees, and by which everybodywill live.
(20:10):
And it was fun.
It was fun.
It was an intense day in threequarters.
Everybody, because again, thesepeople are not used to this kind
of work sitting down.
Sure.
And just, we were doing a lot ofstandup activities.
I don't mean to imply we weresitting the whole time still in
a totally different type ofthinking.
(20:32):
In which they were involved.
And it was, it's, it is alwaysfun and I find it funny, at the
end of day one, all of them werejust like, I am so tired.
I can't see strain.
I'm just so tired.
And I was like, they weren'tused to using their brains that
much.
Exactly.
Yeah.
Exactly.
(20:53):
And at the end of day two, samething.
And then though the key is whatwe decided to do, those were the
first two days with the moresenior leaders.
Although we had input from a lotof people.
Then we had the managers come infor day three and four.
We took them through the entireprocess of how we came up with.
(21:17):
The values, the defined values,the culture statement, and then
we talked about how they coulduse it what was important to
them, what was applicable tothem.
And it's working.
It's just working.
And so you started with the.
People that were not inleadership at first, I talked I
(21:39):
talked to the leaders in theinitial conversations.
Yes.
And then once I went out there,Elaine the senior leaders were
not very involved at all.
No, not at all.
And to me that is such a sign ofpsychological safety that Jeff,
the owner and the other leadershave created, and the
(22:00):
information people were sharingwith me was amazing.
It was just like.
Oh, I love it here.
I love it here.
It is so much fun.
And also not just the fun stuff.
There are some things we need todo differently.
There's no two ways about it.
The other thing people need tobe aware of here, and I give
Jeff and Maya so much credit andthe other leaders, because I
(22:24):
said to them upfront, it waslike, you need to be aware of a
couple things here, folks.
Number one, you're probablygonna lose some people.
Some people are gonna leavewhere it's I don't like this, I
don't want anything to changehere.
And it's and they were like, weknow that and that's okay.
Okay.
And I said, it really asimportant, you may very well
(22:45):
need to let some people go whoare not going to buy into this.
And they're like, we know thattoo.
And that, it just doesn't getany better than that.
And again, it's just, it's allabout what is best for this
organization.
But, and also what I'm hearingthough is, I think one of the
(23:05):
reasons I get so excited talkingwith Ron is I like so many
people, I worked in a lot ofhotel restaurant comedy clubs
and there were many.
Toxic environments and a lot oftimes everyone was just doing
the best they could, but so manytimes people got promoted
because they were there orbecause, sometimes it's like the
(23:26):
worst reason why people getpromoted and then they're
trained to do the.
Checkouts, but they're nottrained how to manage people or
how to motivate how tocommunicate.
And so I get so excited becauseI think what would be possible,
and one of the things thinkingabout you working with the
people who were not in theleadership so many times, that
(23:49):
your people in lines, dealingwith clients and customers, the
ones in the trenches, a lot oftimes they have insights.
Brilliant things'cause they knowwhat it's like to execute or
not.
They are they're on the frontlines.
And many times in my experience,the higher ups don't listen.
(24:13):
So many times you have thesepeople who wanna contribute,
then yes, some, there's always acouple who wanna complain, but a
lot of times there's people whowanna contribute or have ideas.
But if you keep squelching thatdown, they go.
You know what?
Quiet, quitting what?
Fine.
That's right.
And it's heartbreaking.
It's heartbreaking when you careabout.
What you do and you put pride inwhatever.
(24:36):
If you're digging ditches,you're like, I wanna be the best
dig ditch digger, and I have abetter idea about how to, be
more efficient.
Anyway.
So I just think there's so muchhealing that happens.
Oh, like that experience ofbeing heard, being seen, being,
gotten, being appreciated likethat is I, when I was.
(24:57):
An employee, I would just feellike so much loyalty if I felt
like my manager knew what I wasup to and understood my goals
and what drove me.
I would work holidays andweekends and the shitty shifts
because they got me.
They'd be like, Elaine, can youscrub this with a toothbrush?
I'd be like, yes, you got it.
(25:18):
Because I felt like I was inpartnership with them.
But then when I had theexperience of, working with a
lot of no offense and Alphamales who, you know for whatever
reasons it was like oil andwater, or I was a high eye and
they were a d, all that stuff Iwould feel myself like really
detaching.
(25:38):
And not having the best attitude'cause I just felt so frustrated
and not respected, not heard,not gotten.
So anyway, I think the work thatyou do is so profound.
And that is the end of part onewith Ron Reich in leadership.
Make sure you stay tuned forpart two where he goes deeper
(25:59):
into so many great things.
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