October 8, 2025 • 37 mins
Show Notes
In this candid and insightful conversation, Elaine sits down with veteran speaker manager Julie Cooley, who has worked with hundreds of speakers through NSA, the Colorado Speaker Academy, and her own business helping thought leaders build sustainable, profitable speaking careers.
If you’ve ever wondered why your inbox isn’t filling with paid gig offers yet — this episode will clear the fog. Julie shares the truth behind “overnight success” myths in the speaking world, how to build your reputation strategically, and what actually makes you referable and bookable.
You’ll learn how to reframe “free gigs” into strategic visibility investments, why three years is the magic number, and the mindset shifts that separate professionals from hopefuls.
This is the episode every aspiring speaker (and even seasoned pros) need to hear before their next “exposure opportunity.”
Takeaways
- Stop saying “I speak for free.” Start saying you’re waiving your fee — and negotiate visibility assets instead.
- It’s a three-year climb. Sustainable speaking careers are built on consistent visibility, trust, and results — not quick wins.
- Relationships > reels. Referrals and collaborations with other speakers will book you faster than any cold email.
- Proof matters. Collect high-quality photos, clips, and testimonials from every event.
- You are your own best agent. Your clarity, professionalism, and follow-up determine how far you’ll go.
Julie Cooley
Speaker Manager
I work with professional speakers to optimize their processes, systems, and outreach so they can book more business and amplify their impact.julianecooley@gmail.com | (860) 478-9279
Julie Cooley | LinkedIn
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Check out Captivate the Mic Podcast on Elaine's YouTube Channel
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
this is Elaine Williams withCaptivate The Mic.
This is a podcast to help youbecome a more effective speaker
communicator.
Whether you're doing videos,whether you're on stage, whether
you're podcast guesting, I amusing my 50 million years of
experience and having amazingguests.
You are in for such a treat,this woman, I wanna introduce
(00:27):
Julie Cooley to you.
She is a speaker manager.
She's also a professionalspeaker, and she's the co.
Director of the Speaker Academyfor Colorado, NSA, which is
National Speakers Association.
If you don't know that, and I'mjust delighted to have you,
Julie, thank you so much forbeing here.
(00:50):
Oh, thank you so much for havingme here.
I really appreciate it, and I'lljust tell everybody.
I've been performing my wholelife.
I've been a professional speakersince the early two thousands,
and I meet a lot of people whodo a lot of blowing smoke up
your, you know what, and one ofthe things that had me wanna
stay connected with Julie was.
(01:11):
You were just laying down somewisdom and some truth and I told
some of my clients, you have toconnect, get connected with this
woman because you really knowyour stuff and you know the
insides of the whole speakingworld.
And you know a lot of people whofollow me, they're.
Either, coaches and wanting toexpand their business by
(01:32):
speaking, or their speakers whowant to get paid speaking gigs.
And, there's a lot in thatumbrella.
And Julie, why don't you tellus, first of all, I'd love to
know how you got into this.
If you could tell us a littlebit about your entree.
Absolutely.
So like you, I've been aperformer for most of my life.
(01:54):
I wanted to be a singer and weall know how easy that is to get
into that profession.
So I loved the stage, but Godhad other plans.
So singing didn't quite pan out.
And for speaking, I didn't everthink of it really as a career.
I joined Toastmasters in, I.
(02:16):
Oh, Lord.
Lord, probably 14 years ago mymanager at the time I was in the
corporate world.
I said, Hey, you're doing sometraining for us.
I think Toastmasters would begood, even though you know how
to speak, it'll get you to thenext level.
And I loved Toastmasters andthat's when people first came up
to me and said, Hey, you coulddo this.
And I was also in a Buddhistgroup where.
(02:39):
I was leading the singingbecause my Dharma teacher found
out pretty fast that, I knewchanting, I almost became a
cantor in the Hebrew tradition.
So he called me their cantor andthen I started leading workshops
for them too.
So facilitating workshops,except my teacher didn't like me
(03:00):
too much sometimes because hecalled me spiritually
promiscuous.
'cause I would do Don Ruiz.
I wouldn't stick to justBuddhism, even though I would do
definitely some Buddhism.
But my take was if it helps myaudience.
I don't care what tradition itcomes from.
So I really love speakingbetween the Buddhist group where
(03:22):
I was facilitating workshops andToastmasters, and then I heard
about NSA the National SpeakersAssociation.
So I.
I was in Connecticut at the timeand they didn't, they had a less
than robust chapter.
It was a smaller chapter.
I attended a lot of theirmeetings because the president
at the time brought in someamazing speakers.
(03:44):
But I knew about Colorado evenwhen I was in Connecticut, and
I'm like, I'm holding up forColorado.
So when we moved to Colorado in2020.
Started attending theirmeetings, went through their
speaker Academy in 2023, andthen volunteered immediately the
year after to help the directorand became co-director.
(04:05):
That's so cool.
I lo I love that.
I love hearing people's stories.
And you wanted to be a singer,and then you found a way to
express that.
I just love that.
That's, my, my mission is tohelp heal the world with love
and laughter.
One joke, one video, one story,one speech at a time.
And I think I help, I know, Ihelp people come back to their
(04:25):
voice.
And sounds like that happenedfor you.
So I love that.
I love that so much.
So Julie, when we spoke beforeyou were talking about.
Let's break some of the myths.
Let's just break it down, right?
So I know I was at a, I was atPod Fest in January and there
(04:47):
was a person there who was like,I can help you make$10,000.
You can get a$10,000 gig and in,in less than a month.
And it just.
Bothers me because I feel like,oh no, people are going in with
these high expectations and haveI made I, I did make 6,500 for
(05:08):
one of my speeches, but I'vebeen performing my whole life.
Unless you already have a lot ofchops.
So anyway, can you speak tothat?
When you hear those crazypromises, unfortunately there's
a lot of people who takeadvantage of people who wanna
speak and they'll make thesegrandiose promises.
I saw on Facebook, somebody'soh, if you're not making$25,000
(05:30):
a speech, you're doing it wrong.
And I'm like, oh, my dearestGod, I hope nobody's falling for
that.
You hear about it because youhear about Les Brown, you hear
about Tony Robbins, you hearabout, wow.
Damon John, he makes$30,000 aspeech, right?
I can do that.
Yeah, you're not Damon John,right?
And there are a few outliers.
(05:52):
I will say.
There are a couple people I'veheard about that.
Out the gate, we're able tocommand that.
But that is the exception.
That is not the rule.
And we do have one person in ourchapter who just does keynote
speaking, but he's a famousfootball player.
Carl Mecklenberg from theBroncos?
Yes.
He's got the name, he's got thereps like you.
He did.
(06:12):
He had a pre career that peoplefind very.
Interesting, appealing thatthey're willing to pay a lot of
money for.
So you know, folks like that,yes they can do it, but your
average speaker, no matter howgood you are, you're gonna have
to do the reps.
And I've had people say, oh, Iwanna command$7,500 this.
And I'm like, nobody knows whoyou are, right?
(06:34):
You don't have target audience,you haven't done the reps, you
don't have the connections.
It takes a lot, especially now,speaking is it's similar to the
arts, acting comedians, singing,dancing in that, first of all,
it's very subjective.
Second of all, anybody could,there's no barrier to entry.
Anybody can say, Hey, I'm asinger, I'm a speaker.
(06:56):
But you have to do the reps, youhave to get yourself known.
And these days it is not aboutwhat you know.
It's not about how good you are.
It's not even about who youknow, it's about who knows you.
And you have to work really hardto be visible, get that
(07:17):
expertise out there.
That when they're planning aconference, it's not like you're
throwing email after email, aphone call, after phone call.
They're like, oh, wait a minute.
We have a great conferencecoming up and we want somebody
entertaining, and who's gonnahelp people in front of the
camera?
Let's call Elaine.
That's the ideal, but that takesyears, and I was told, like I
(07:39):
went to massage therapy schooltoo.
So that's a whole nother story.
Wow.
Julian, what a story.
I love it.
But they tell you it will takeabout three years before you'll
break even.
Of course they didn't tell methat until my last semester.
Same thing with speaking, it'sgonna take you.
With hard work, with doing theright things, with making the
right connections with the reps,with the video, with the
(08:00):
website, everything you need,it's gonna take about three
years.
Before you really get thatmomentum going.
And unfortunately, a lot ofpeople don't realize that they
have the stars in their eyesand, oh, if I just take this
course and I have the websiteand I have the demo reel and I
have the book, people are justgonna flock to me.
(08:21):
And that's.
Not how it happens.
I love that.
It makes me think when I wasdoing when I was a new standup
comedian in New York City, theyhave all of these come do the
show, get in front of the bookerfor Letterman.
And it's first of all, it's likethe assistants assistant.
Second of all, if you're new,you don't wanna be seen yet.
So yeah, it's interesting.
(08:42):
What I have found, like I, Igrew up performing, singing,
dancing, acting, all the things,voiceover commercials.
And then when I became a lifecoach, I knew oh, I need to
learn how to speak as Elaine.
'cause I didn't know how to notbe like musical thi, so I
started going to Toastmastersand it was, I remember doing my
(09:03):
icebreaker, which is like thefirst one you do.
And I remember sitting down andI was, I felt this vibe.
Like my body was like, you'resupposed to be doing it.
I felt like my soul wasquivering.
I, it's, I had goosebumps and Iwas like okay, this is cool.
And I'm grateful that I knew,okay, I need to keep getting up
in front of people.
(09:23):
I knew that I, that was what Ineeded to do to get up as
Elaine.
The coach, thought leader,speaker versus acting and so one
of the things I always encouragemy clients is like.
Go practice and there's amillion ways, right?
And as a comedian you get reallygood at I'd be like hey, can you
(09:44):
gimme five minutes?
I need to run my set.
Thank you to all the people wholisten to me.
And now a quick message.
I get it.
You're super busy, you're supercommitted.
You are speaking to grow yourbusiness, or maybe you're in the
corporate world and you want togrow your career and you know
(10:06):
that there are some thingsyou're doing vocally and with
your body language that don'tserve you.
My name's Elaine and I've helpedhundreds of people just like you
become more powerfulcommunicators.
There are some, so many thingswe don't realize that could be
dissipating our energy.
And with a few tweaks, you canbecome a rock star, whether
(10:29):
you're speaking in front of5,000 people or a room of five.
I can help you become a moreeffective speaker.
If this resonates with you,please reach out.
All of my scheduling stuff is inthe show notes.
And now back to the show.
(10:54):
So many ways, obviously going tothe Speaker Academy is.
Awesome.
I do think Toastmasters isawesome for a while, but I do
think it can pigeonhole somepeople too.
So it's like it's a bridge, butdon't get stuck on that bridge,
in my opinion.
Obviously hiring a speaker coachas either one of us would be
(11:16):
great.
And there's still a lot of otherways that you can do your reps,
as you mentioned, right?
I did train the trainer withPeak Potentials.
I don't know if you've heard ofthem.
And we would, we went throughthis whole intensive, and then
we would meet once a month andpractice doing the train the
trainer stuff, facilitating,putting people in pairs.
(11:37):
Opening, closing, all thethings.
And that was free, and it, butit was so cool'cause we were all
really committed to grow asfacilitators.
And then I always tell peopletoo, like stage time.
So even though video isdifferent than live, it can
still be good practice becausethere's the pressure of the
camera.
And the lights, and it's alittle different than, working
(11:59):
the room, but it's still goodpractice.
Do you have any other tips toadd on to for that, Julie, or
any, anything else?
There's so many.
Trust me, there are plenty ofplaces you can speak for free.
That's the challenge of thespeaking business that people
want you to speak for free.
But you do, and it's differentthan most industries in that you
have to in the beginning becausefirst of all, you have to get
(12:22):
yourself visible, but justbecause you're speaking for free
doesn't mean you can't getvalue.
So first of all.
We don't wanna talk, say thatwe're speaking for free because
we have value.
We wanna say we're waiving ourfee for you.
Oh, I love that.
Say that again.
We are waiving you don't want ussay you're speaking for free
(12:42):
because we have value.
You wanna say, I'm waiving myfee for you.
And that's comes from LoisKramer.
I cannot take credit from that.
Lois Kramer is the author ofBook More Business and I call
consider that the Bible of.
Professional speaking so wellwith Kramer.
Okay.
Good job.
Yeah, she has a lot of wisdom.
(13:03):
I recommend that book to anybodywho wants to be a speaker.
So it's book More Business, makeMore Money Speaking.
She just came out with a newedition last year, so she talks
about this, so if you're gonnaspeak.
And waive your fee.
Then what you wanna do is say,Hey, can I get photos?
Can I get videos?
Can I get testimonials?
(13:23):
Yeah, you want those speakerassets so that again, you can
build that social proof, thatcredibility, and you wanna test
your material because honestly,you might think, Hey, I've got
the greatest speech in theworld.
And then people aren't laughingwhere you thought they would
laugh, they might be laughing inplaces that you thought.
Oh, I didn't realize that wasfunny.
Or, they might not react tothings the way you want them to
(13:47):
react.
So it's really important to testit.
But the thing is, you also don'twanna get stuck speaking for no
fee for years and years either.
So the, that's where a lot ofspeakers struggle is how do I go
from.
No fee to getting paid.
And it's about the value thatpeople see in you and that you
(14:08):
have to solve a problem.
It's not about, oh I'm good.
I know how to deliver and I, Ilook great on stage.
No, it's, you have to solve aproblem.
That's what people want isthey're paying, they're not
paying you to be on stage.
They're not paying for greatdelivery.
That's expected these days, longgone are the days that, Hey, I'm
(14:29):
entertaining.
I'm gonna get paid for that.
They don't hire the motivationalspeaker again unless you're less
brown or Tony Robbins.
But for your.
Up and coming speakers, they'renot gonna hire you for that.
What they're gonna hire you for,especially in this economic
environment, is what problem canyou solve for me and how can you
(14:49):
transform my audience?
That's a big ask and that's whya lot of speakers will offer
consulting and coaching andaftercare programs because.
You're really not gonna changepeople's lives in a 45 minute
speech.
But what you can do is open thedoors for them and oh, okay.
I didn't think of it this way,or, oh, I wanna learn more.
(15:10):
So that's what it's about thesedays because we see in the news,
there's tons of layoffs, ai.
Everybody's uncertain what'sgonna happen, right?
Corporations are tighteningtheir spending on training and
speakers.
So you have to be able to proveto them that, hey, I can solve a
problem for you and you wanna,solve either money efficiency,
(15:35):
time, productivity, right?
Something that is tangible.
And there are lots of topicsthat can do that.
And in fact, I just saw rightbefore our call on LinkedIn,
they were posting us.
Some of the topics.
Ai, of course.
'cause that's the new HA thing,boy, is it?
Yeah.
Storytelling and sales.
Mental health leadership isalways gonna be a hot topic, but
(15:58):
it you have to differentiateyourself from literally the
other hundreds of thousands ofpeople who speak on leadership.
So there are still hot topicsthat you can solve, but you have
to prove, how am I differentthan all the other a hundred
thousand leadership speakers youcould book?
What am I going to do for you?
It's not about you.
(16:18):
It's not about your delivery.
It's about what you can give tothem and how you can solve their
issue.
So well said.
I love that so much.
And I, I started out speaking,on the college campuses.
So I solved, I talked aboutreally heavy topics, eating
disorders, drugs, alcohol,sexual assault.
(16:40):
I would use humor to keep thecollege kids awake and engaged,
but, I solved some pretty heavyproblems and they liked it, that
I was funny and motivating andrelatable, blah, blah, blah.
But, yeah you've gotta solvesomething and another thing I
think sometimes I'm gonna askyou, so you know, I had a pretty
(17:02):
heavy story.
I.
Lots of addiction, lots ofassault growing up, lots of
things, right?
Things that should never happento a little girl.
And I've done a lot of work andI'm so grateful that I'm healed
and blessed and can help peoplenow.
But people would compare theirstories to mine and they'd be
like, oh, I don't have a goodstory like yours.
And I would say, just becauseyou don't have as much trauma as
(17:26):
I did, doesn't mean you stillhaven't overcome things.
So one of the things I think isgood.
To be, to remind people about isyou don't have to, been
kidnapped and almost killed byyour ex-husband or overcome a
snake bite in the rainforest inBrazil or whatever.
You don't have to have a supertragic story in order to have a
(17:52):
really good overcoming obstaclestory.
Would you agree, Julie?
Absolutely.
So Matthew Dix, who is theauthor of the best storytelling
book I've ever read, story wherethey.
Has gone through a lot of stuff.
He was homeless at the age of18.
He was arrested for a crime hedidn't commit.
He almost died a couple oftimes.
(18:13):
So he's been through a lot ofstuff.
But what he will say is wherepeople connect with him are the
stories he would tell aboutgetting his.
Kid to eat vegetables or, thereally small things that
everybody can connect with.
Yeah.
So even though he's gone throughthese really horrific things and
(18:33):
he will talk about itoccasionally.
That's not where people connect.
So if you've gone throughsomething traumatic, then look
at the aspects of it.
Okay where would people connect?
How would they understand whatI'm going through?
Because it's the emotion behindthe trauma that people can
understand, right?
So identification, right?
Yes, but it's really the smalleveryday stories where people
(18:58):
connect, and that's why a lot ofcoaches will recommend to people
keep a story file because thingsthat you don't think much of and
that you'll forget in a week.
Or where people are going toconnect with you.
Pe, everybody can connect withthe bad boss or the hard job or
the tough coworker.
(19:19):
Yeah.
Certain failures that we all gothrough, the heartbreaks that we
go through in romanticrelationships, family troubles,
that's where people can connect.
So even if you do have a greatstory, which you know,
unfortunately a lot of peoplehave, because a lot of us do
overcome trauma.
Then look for the emotion behindit so that you don't turn people
(19:41):
off.
Don't assume people's stories.
And at the same time, you haveto be careful too, right?
Because you don't wanna triggerright?
Somebody in your audience withyour trauma as well.
And the other thing is don't usethe stages.
Therapy.
They talk about this all thetime.
You wanna speak from your scars,not your wounds.
Oh my gosh.
(20:02):
You wanna speak from your scars,not your wounds.
Amen.
Yes.
Yes.
And I think especially in thesedays when we're honestly all
have gone through trauma in thelast five years, that opening up
and being vulnerable about whatwe've gone through is important.
So if you do have that story, Ithink it is important to share
(20:24):
it.
Just realize.
First of all, you don't wannatrigger people, right?
You wanna make sure you'rehealed from it and look at the
common emotionality, and don'tassume, never say all or
everyone has gone through this'cause that bugs me.
Yeah.
I had somebody who said you havebeen successful in your life and
you've earned hundreds ofthousands of dollars, and now
(20:45):
you wanna move to the nextlevel.
And I'm like maybe you haven't,so that's where operative words,
like maybe, or perhaps, youwanna incorporate that.
'cause you don't wanna haveobjection in your audience's
mind immediately.
You don't want,'cause they'lljust shut off and they won't
listen to another word you'resaying.
So don't assume anything aboutwhere your audience has been or
(21:08):
where they're going through.
And unfortunately right now.
You can pretty much bet somebodyin your audience is grieving
somebody in your audience ishaving a really hard time.
So just be mindful of that whenyou're speaking and you wanna be
compassionate, empathetic fromthe, from your story as well.
But just realize people arehurting and you wanna connect
(21:30):
with them.
And once they feel heard andunderstood, then change can
happen and you can lift them up.
But, you have to be very carefuland never do all nothing when
you do your talks.
'cause you don't know.
You don't know.
I love that.
And yes, and I am, this is mypodcast, so I'm open with my
(21:50):
story, but obviously if I wasgoing to speak in a corporation
or in a professional setting, Iwould not mention, I would put
it a different way.
And I always tell people, youget to.
Decide how much you wanna share.
'cause some people aren't.
They're like, I don't wanna gothere.
And I'm like, okay.
It's, it is all about likecrafting.
I love the everyday stories andhelping people identify with the
(22:13):
emotions.
That's really what's it about,what it's about.
In aa, they talk about that.
They would tell me when I wasnew don't compare, but try to
identify with the feelings.
And I just, so many great thingsabout the 12 step world.
Julie, another thing I.
I see is sometimes people justwanna go hang out with other
(22:35):
speakers, or they'll pay a lotof money to get a speaker
directory, but then they'recompeting with all the other
speakers who are in thisdirectory for one spot.
So I always tell my clients, gofind event bookers.
Go find, go hang out, go developrelationships with the people
who actually could book you.
(22:57):
Do you agree?
Can you expand on that?
Speak yes, speaking is a hugerelationship building business.
And I'm gonna be a littleunpopular here.
I don't really believe in a lotof the paid services.
I think there is a lot, manyways, especially with AI now
that you can find your ownengagements.
Oh, trust me, there'll be plentyof people who wanna sell you
(23:17):
their systems.
Oh, my system.
We can go get you two.
We'll apply to 2000 gigs amonth.
For you and all sorts of things.
Be careful, especially whenyou're beginning, as you go
along.
Then ask established speakers.
What's worth it?
What's not worth it?
Don't just invest, be carefulbecause there are lots of money.
(23:38):
Who are, lots of people who arewilling to take care money.
But one thing that you reallywanna do is build relationships
not only with event planners,but with other speakers.
And contrary to most otherbusinesses with speakers who
speak about the same topic youdo, because you might view them
they're my competition, Julie,why the heck would I wanna build
(24:00):
relationship with them?
Because speaking is a differentindustry, if.
You get booked for a greatconference, they're not gonna
bring you back no matter howawesome you are the next year,
most likely.
There are a few exceptions tothis, but they want butts in
seats.
So they're going to bringsomebody different because they
wanna attract, people to buytickets to the conference and be
(24:24):
like, but I saw Elaine lastyear.
I knew she was awesome, I wannasee somebody different.
If you're friends with Elaineand you knock it out of the
park, Elaine will be like, Hey,I know this great speaker that
would be wonderful for yourconference.
So you wanna be referable.
And the way you're referable isby building relationships with
other speakers and referringthem first because you've got
(24:47):
the law of reciprocity workingin your favor.
It's really important to buildrelationships with other
speakers.
First of all, it's a lonelybusiness.
Second of all, you wanna learnfrom their expertise and have
them learn from yours.
And third, you wanna be able torefer each other.
So yes, it's great to establishthose relationships with the
event planners too.
And what I always suggest topeople, cold outreach is hard.
(25:09):
I was reading in one sales bookthat it takes, I think it was 20
to 50 touch points.
Oh my gosh.
Completely cold outreach.
Got really tired.
That's a.
So what you wanna do is youwanna build the relationships
and add value, because that'swhat sales is.
(25:31):
It's building relationships andadding value.
That's all it is before theconference.
You wanna get yourself top ofmind and keep top of mind by
adding value.
Come up with some resources,create newsletters.
How valuable post on LinkedInconnect with them on LinkedIn
and for God's sake, do not pitchthem as soon as you connect with
(25:53):
them.
Oh please.
If I get one more, I've justgotten to where I'm just like,
do not try to sell me anything.
It's yeah, it's so rude.
I people don't understand salesand honestly, I'm sorry.
There's no excuse for it rightnow.
There are so many books, there'sso much stuff out there that
teaches you how to sell forfree.
You could borrow from a libraryand there's no excuse.
(26:14):
It's about buildingrelationships, adding value.
You do that, you're not gonnahave as much difficulty when it
is time that you want something,and again.
What you're doing again, isyou're providing value, you're
solving a problem.
So a lot of people think, oh, Ican't sell myself.
(26:35):
When you're not sellingyourself, you're selling a
solution to a problem.
You're selling a value.
Yes.
And if you reframe it as you'redoing them a favor because they
have a pain point and you have asolution, then that takes the
icky factor out of it that a lotof people are scared about
sales, but honestly speaking it.
It is not about speaking, it'sabout sales first.
(26:58):
David Arin, who is a well knownNSA speaker, he always says,
speaking is not the business.
Getting the gigs is thebusiness.
And a lot of people don'trealize that when they get in
the speaking world is thatyou're gonna be spending 90% of
your time marketing outreach,follow up relationship building,
(27:22):
and 10% speaking.
Wow.
Sobering.
Sobering, but good.
And if you are a coach, author,expert, and you just want to
grow your business, speaking forfree is absolutely okay.
Absolutely.
(27:42):
It's, I think it's good to say,you know what?
This sounds like a whole othercareer, which it is.
It's a whole other incomestream.
And for a while I had to put myspeaking on the shelf'cause I
was just so busy caretaking andcoaching and, I just knew okay,
that's just gonna go over herefor a minute.
And it's absolutely okay to belike, you know what?
(28:03):
I don't wanna do all this extrawork.
And just go speak for free,which I do all the time.
I love speaking and I lovelifting people up and I'm trying
to practice discernment becauseI need to get back to the paid
thing too.
Julie, you were just dropping somany golden nuggets.
I just went after ourconversation, I was like, I have
(28:24):
to stay connected with thiswoman, and we are gonna be
working together in the future,and I'm gonna be sending you
more people because I just feellike you're very.
Pragmatic.
There's no smoke up your ass.
There's, and yes, it'scompetitive.
And being a professional speakeris also rewarding.
Yes, it can be lonely.
(28:44):
I definitely had a few nights inmy hotel rooms by myself, tired,
exhausted, and ah.
But I've also gotten to go tosome amazing places, haven't
you?
Like I've spoken in 44 states.
I've been to places.
I don't need to go back to NorthDakota, but I've been, yeah.
To go back to your statementabout.
Hey, if you wanna be a coach oryou're trying to feed a
(29:06):
different side of your business,absolutely speaking, it's a
great way to go.
I have a friend who is fantasticon stage and she spoke for the
Project Management Institute andthey don't pay, or they don't
pay much for engagements.
However, she knocked it out ofthe park so much it fed her
coaching pipeline, so that'swhat I always tell people is,
(29:27):
please do not.
Treat a no fee engagement oh,they're not paying me, so I
don't care because you don'tknow who's in the audience.
Never know.
I've heard so many of my speakerfriends say, I got this great
engagement out of a no feeengagement, you have to treat
every time you step onto thatstage as a privilege that you
(29:49):
know you're adding value tothem.
They're spending their valuabletime to listen to you, so you
wanna knock it out of the park.
And how that's gonna benefit youis word of mouth, because that
is the best marketing you couldever have.
It's not the fancy website.
I have another friend who.
(30:10):
Is a multimillionaire fromspeaking.
He was in sales first, and thenhe's my website's not fancy.
He doesn't get his business fromthat.
It's because he has a reallyunique personality in delivering
and he delivers value and heunderstands the relationship
building part of sales.
And that's what he teaches ishow to build relationships.
So I love that Julie.
(30:32):
And I wanna speak to that toobecause, as a comedian coming up
in New York, you do a lot oflike basement open mics for
three people, five people.
But it prepares you for thecrazy stuff that happens out on
the road.
'cause sometimes you have awarm, slightly tipsy audience.
They're tightly packed in,that's a hot crowd.
(30:54):
And you can over, you can think,oh, I'm hilarious.
I'm so killing it.
And then sometimes it's actuallyit was a really hot crowd.
You're good.
You know what I mean?
So I'm so grateful I came upthat way'cause it helped me be
versatile and bulletproof as myex comedian, boyfriend used to
tell me.
But also, yeah, as a speaker.
(31:15):
Even if you're like, oh, Ithought there were gonna be 500
people and there's five, younever know and you don't wanna
phone it in.
I've gotten amazing things fromsmaller audiences and also the
gift of being prepared.
So I was in, I was asked tospeak about quitting smoking on
a college campus in Queens.
(31:36):
I've never smoked, but I did allthis research because I wanted
to be prepared and.
It was horrifying and inspire.
It's like some of the, we haddoctors recommending cigarettes
and dentists, are you kidding?
But I went and I was so overprepared and I had so much stuff
and they were like, Elaine, theother speaker, something
(31:57):
happened.
Can you stretch?
And I was like, yep, I got it.
And so that's another thing.
You need to be flexible becauseso many times they're like, you
know what?
We're running tight.
I know you're supposed to do 30.
Can you do 15?
And you wanna be able to say,yep.
And that's when you'd still dothe opening and the closing and
you pull out some of the middleor Oh my gosh, somebody didn't
(32:19):
show.
Can you stretch?
Yeah.
How much time do you need?
And that takes practice.
That takes mastery.
That takes working with somebodylike me or Julie, however.
That Booker will love you and beso grateful and they will
probably spin, put your name allover the place because you saved
(32:39):
their butt.
Do you wanna add to any of that?
You need to be easy to workwith.
You hear these horrifyingstories.
Certainly the, in the musicworld about how difficult people
are to work with in the actingworld, their divas.
But in the speaking world, it'sa privilege.
Don't.
Yeah, and you need to be veryeasy to work with.
(33:00):
Do they give you a deadline?
Submit the paperwork before thedeadline?
Yes.
Be prepared and for God's sake,be on time.
So you're not the reason thatthe other speaker has to cut
their time because you do that,first of all, the other speaker
will remember that.
For other events, event plannerstalk.
(33:22):
They're gonna be upset with you,so that's gonna hurt you on
their, some practice with atimer.
That's where Toastmasters isreally handy.
Yeah, it's, make sure you arewithin that time because you
never want to be that speakerthat causes another speaker to
have to cut their material.
So be very easy to work with.
Let them know when you getthere.
(33:43):
Let them, ease their minds.
Offer to help.
I'm sorry, you're not too goodthat you can't help.
Help set up, or you can't helpchairs or you can't help them
with other things.
Being a meeting planner is oneof the most stressful jobs.
Yeah.
And there is always somethingthat goes wrong.
Yeah.
And you don't want to be thereason for their stress at all.
(34:04):
So think put yourself in theirshoes.
What can I do to make theirlives easier?
Yeah.
Every step of the way.
I love that.
And one of the things is.
I have a checklist, right?
So make sure everything'scharged.
Bring your own dang water.
Don't expect them, if it'sthere, sweet, if it's a super
duper green room, awesome.
But that's not always the case.
(34:25):
And another thing is, yeah, Itext them, I'm here, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah.
And then I don't like sittingaround because I get tight and
constricted, so I will.
I will tell them I'm gonna gowalk around backstage or if they
don't need help.
And I will say, I'm here, butI'm just gonna be over there
because.
That way they're not going,where'd she go?
(34:45):
What?
I need to ask her a question.
Have your intro printed out,even laminated.
Keep it simple like there's amillion tiny nuances.
Anyway, Julie, I think we'regonna have to do a part two
because there's so many things Iforget that I know, and you've
helped remind me of all thethings that I know and, part
two, maybe we'll do somethingabout what's the worst mistake
(35:07):
you've made?
Or, so if people wanna know moreabout you, how do they find you?
What's the easiest way?
LinkedIn.
I live on LinkedIn, so JulieCooley.
Julie Cooley.
Okay.
Julie Cooley.
Julie rhymes.
So I, and I'm gonna have that inthe show notes too.
Thank you so much for joiningand sharing your expertness,
(35:30):
your.
So authentic and real, and it'sjust refreshing in this crazy
business.
'cause there's a lot of peoplewho unfortunately are not.
Anything you wanna say partingwords, just be careful out there
because again, they, there's somany people who wanna take
advantage of you as a speakerwho will promise you the world
(35:53):
and there are some legitimateup.
People out there, so you don'twanna, it's not all or nothing,
but I highly recommend theNational Speakers Association.
Most chapters will let you visitfor free for the first meeting.
Check it out.
But even if you don't join NSA.
Surround yourself with otherspeakers who are above what
(36:14):
you're doing because that willelevate you and then help other
speakers as you grow in yourspeaking career and ask them,
because most of us have mademistakes in investing in the
wrong things or have heard, andyou don't wanna make those same
mistakes.
So don't, you have.
Surround yourself with a networkso that you can say, Hey, I'm
thinking about this, or Thissounds too good to be true.
(36:37):
What do you think?
And so you can get thatexperience and ask multiple
people.
That way at least, hopefully,that you know their mistakes can
save you from making the sameones.
I love it.
I love it.
Thank you Julie, so much and Ilook forward to.
Working with you and connectingand doing a part two.
Alright everybody, bye.
(36:59):
Take care.
Thank you.
this is Elaine Williams withCaptivate The Mic.
This is a podcast to help youbecome a more effective speaker
communicator.
Whether you're doing videos,whether you're on stage, whether
you're podcast guesting, I amusing my 50 million years of
experience and having amazingguests.
You are in for such a treat,this woman, I wanna introduce
(00:27):
Julie Cooley to you.
She is a speaker manager.
She's also a professionalspeaker, and she's the co.
Director of the Speaker Academyfor Colorado, NSA, which is
National Speakers Association.
If you don't know that, and I'mjust delighted to have you,
Julie, thank you so much forbeing here.
(00:50):
Oh, thank you so much for havingme here.
I really appreciate it, and I'lljust tell everybody.
I've been performing my wholelife.
I've been a professional speakersince the early two thousands,
and I meet a lot of people whodo a lot of blowing smoke up
your, you know what, and one ofthe things that had me wanna
stay connected with Julie was.
(01:11):
You were just laying down somewisdom and some truth and I told
some of my clients, you have toconnect, get connected with this
woman because you really knowyour stuff and you know the
insides of the whole speakingworld.
And you know a lot of people whofollow me, they're.
Either, coaches and wanting toexpand their business by
(01:32):
speaking, or their speakers whowant to get paid speaking gigs.
And, there's a lot in thatumbrella.
And Julie, why don't you tellus, first of all, I'd love to
know how you got into this.
If you could tell us a littlebit about your entree.
Absolutely.
So like you, I've been aperformer for most of my life.
(01:54):
I wanted to be a singer and weall know how easy that is to get
into that profession.
So I loved the stage, but Godhad other plans.
So singing didn't quite pan out.
And for speaking, I didn't everthink of it really as a career.
I joined Toastmasters in, I.
(02:16):
Oh, Lord.
Lord, probably 14 years ago mymanager at the time I was in the
corporate world.
I said, Hey, you're doing sometraining for us.
I think Toastmasters would begood, even though you know how
to speak, it'll get you to thenext level.
And I loved Toastmasters andthat's when people first came up
to me and said, Hey, you coulddo this.
And I was also in a Buddhistgroup where.
(02:39):
I was leading the singingbecause my Dharma teacher found
out pretty fast that, I knewchanting, I almost became a
cantor in the Hebrew tradition.
So he called me their cantor andthen I started leading workshops
for them too.
So facilitating workshops,except my teacher didn't like me
(03:00):
too much sometimes because hecalled me spiritually
promiscuous.
'cause I would do Don Ruiz.
I wouldn't stick to justBuddhism, even though I would do
definitely some Buddhism.
But my take was if it helps myaudience.
I don't care what tradition itcomes from.
So I really love speakingbetween the Buddhist group where
(03:22):
I was facilitating workshops andToastmasters, and then I heard
about NSA the National SpeakersAssociation.
So I.
I was in Connecticut at the timeand they didn't, they had a less
than robust chapter.
It was a smaller chapter.
I attended a lot of theirmeetings because the president
at the time brought in someamazing speakers.
(03:44):
But I knew about Colorado evenwhen I was in Connecticut, and
I'm like, I'm holding up forColorado.
So when we moved to Colorado in2020.
Started attending theirmeetings, went through their
speaker Academy in 2023, andthen volunteered immediately the
year after to help the directorand became co-director.
(04:05):
That's so cool.
I lo I love that.
I love hearing people's stories.
And you wanted to be a singer,and then you found a way to
express that.
I just love that.
That's, my, my mission is tohelp heal the world with love
and laughter.
One joke, one video, one story,one speech at a time.
And I think I help, I know, Ihelp people come back to their
(04:25):
voice.
And sounds like that happenedfor you.
So I love that.
I love that so much.
So Julie, when we spoke beforeyou were talking about.
Let's break some of the myths.
Let's just break it down, right?
So I know I was at a, I was atPod Fest in January and there
(04:47):
was a person there who was like,I can help you make$10,000.
You can get a$10,000 gig and in,in less than a month.
And it just.
Bothers me because I feel like,oh no, people are going in with
these high expectations and haveI made I, I did make 6,500 for
(05:08):
one of my speeches, but I'vebeen performing my whole life.
Unless you already have a lot ofchops.
So anyway, can you speak tothat?
When you hear those crazypromises, unfortunately there's
a lot of people who takeadvantage of people who wanna
speak and they'll make thesegrandiose promises.
I saw on Facebook, somebody'soh, if you're not making$25,000
(05:30):
a speech, you're doing it wrong.
And I'm like, oh, my dearestGod, I hope nobody's falling for
that.
You hear about it because youhear about Les Brown, you hear
about Tony Robbins, you hearabout, wow.
Damon John, he makes$30,000 aspeech, right?
I can do that.
Yeah, you're not Damon John,right?
And there are a few outliers.
(05:52):
I will say.
There are a couple people I'veheard about that.
Out the gate, we're able tocommand that.
But that is the exception.
That is not the rule.
And we do have one person in ourchapter who just does keynote
speaking, but he's a famousfootball player.
Carl Mecklenberg from theBroncos?
Yes.
He's got the name, he's got thereps like you.
He did.
(06:12):
He had a pre career that peoplefind very.
Interesting, appealing thatthey're willing to pay a lot of
money for.
So you know, folks like that,yes they can do it, but your
average speaker, no matter howgood you are, you're gonna have
to do the reps.
And I've had people say, oh, Iwanna command$7,500 this.
And I'm like, nobody knows whoyou are, right?
(06:34):
You don't have target audience,you haven't done the reps, you
don't have the connections.
It takes a lot, especially now,speaking is it's similar to the
arts, acting comedians, singing,dancing in that, first of all,
it's very subjective.
Second of all, anybody could,there's no barrier to entry.
Anybody can say, Hey, I'm asinger, I'm a speaker.
(06:56):
But you have to do the reps, youhave to get yourself known.
And these days it is not aboutwhat you know.
It's not about how good you are.
It's not even about who youknow, it's about who knows you.
And you have to work really hardto be visible, get that
(07:17):
expertise out there.
That when they're planning aconference, it's not like you're
throwing email after email, aphone call, after phone call.
They're like, oh, wait a minute.
We have a great conferencecoming up and we want somebody
entertaining, and who's gonnahelp people in front of the
camera?
Let's call Elaine.
That's the ideal, but that takesyears, and I was told, like I
(07:39):
went to massage therapy schooltoo.
So that's a whole nother story.
Wow.
Julian, what a story.
I love it.
But they tell you it will takeabout three years before you'll
break even.
Of course they didn't tell methat until my last semester.
Same thing with speaking, it'sgonna take you.
With hard work, with doing theright things, with making the
right connections with the reps,with the video, with the
(08:00):
website, everything you need,it's gonna take about three
years.
Before you really get thatmomentum going.
And unfortunately, a lot ofpeople don't realize that they
have the stars in their eyesand, oh, if I just take this
course and I have the websiteand I have the demo reel and I
have the book, people are justgonna flock to me.
(08:21):
And that's.
Not how it happens.
I love that.
It makes me think when I wasdoing when I was a new standup
comedian in New York City, theyhave all of these come do the
show, get in front of the bookerfor Letterman.
And it's first of all, it's likethe assistants assistant.
Second of all, if you're new,you don't wanna be seen yet.
So yeah, it's interesting.
(08:42):
What I have found, like I, Igrew up performing, singing,
dancing, acting, all the things,voiceover commercials.
And then when I became a lifecoach, I knew oh, I need to
learn how to speak as Elaine.
'cause I didn't know how to notbe like musical thi, so I
started going to Toastmastersand it was, I remember doing my
(09:03):
icebreaker, which is like thefirst one you do.
And I remember sitting down andI was, I felt this vibe.
Like my body was like, you'resupposed to be doing it.
I felt like my soul wasquivering.
I, it's, I had goosebumps and Iwas like okay, this is cool.
And I'm grateful that I knew,okay, I need to keep getting up
in front of people.
(09:23):
I knew that I, that was what Ineeded to do to get up as
Elaine.
The coach, thought leader,speaker versus acting and so one
of the things I always encouragemy clients is like.
Go practice and there's amillion ways, right?
And as a comedian you get reallygood at I'd be like hey, can you
(09:44):
gimme five minutes?
I need to run my set.
Thank you to all the people wholisten to me.
And now a quick message.
I get it.
You're super busy, you're supercommitted.
You are speaking to grow yourbusiness, or maybe you're in the
corporate world and you want togrow your career and you know
(10:06):
that there are some thingsyou're doing vocally and with
your body language that don'tserve you.
My name's Elaine and I've helpedhundreds of people just like you
become more powerfulcommunicators.
There are some, so many thingswe don't realize that could be
dissipating our energy.
And with a few tweaks, you canbecome a rock star, whether
(10:29):
you're speaking in front of5,000 people or a room of five.
I can help you become a moreeffective speaker.
If this resonates with you,please reach out.
All of my scheduling stuff is inthe show notes.
And now back to the show.
(10:54):
So many ways, obviously going tothe Speaker Academy is.
Awesome.
I do think Toastmasters isawesome for a while, but I do
think it can pigeonhole somepeople too.
So it's like it's a bridge, butdon't get stuck on that bridge,
in my opinion.
Obviously hiring a speaker coachas either one of us would be
(11:16):
great.
And there's still a lot of otherways that you can do your reps,
as you mentioned, right?
I did train the trainer withPeak Potentials.
I don't know if you've heard ofthem.
And we would, we went throughthis whole intensive, and then
we would meet once a month andpractice doing the train the
trainer stuff, facilitating,putting people in pairs.
(11:37):
Opening, closing, all thethings.
And that was free, and it, butit was so cool'cause we were all
really committed to grow asfacilitators.
And then I always tell peopletoo, like stage time.
So even though video isdifferent than live, it can
still be good practice becausethere's the pressure of the
camera.
And the lights, and it's alittle different than, working
(11:59):
the room, but it's still goodpractice.
Do you have any other tips toadd on to for that, Julie, or
any, anything else?
There's so many.
Trust me, there are plenty ofplaces you can speak for free.
That's the challenge of thespeaking business that people
want you to speak for free.
But you do, and it's differentthan most industries in that you
have to in the beginning becausefirst of all, you have to get
(12:22):
yourself visible, but justbecause you're speaking for free
doesn't mean you can't getvalue.
So first of all.
We don't wanna talk, say thatwe're speaking for free because
we have value.
We wanna say we're waiving ourfee for you.
Oh, I love that.
Say that again.
We are waiving you don't want ussay you're speaking for free
(12:42):
because we have value.
You wanna say, I'm waiving myfee for you.
And that's comes from LoisKramer.
I cannot take credit from that.
Lois Kramer is the author ofBook More Business and I call
consider that the Bible of.
Professional speaking so wellwith Kramer.
Okay.
Good job.
Yeah, she has a lot of wisdom.
(13:03):
I recommend that book to anybodywho wants to be a speaker.
So it's book More Business, makeMore Money Speaking.
She just came out with a newedition last year, so she talks
about this, so if you're gonnaspeak.
And waive your fee.
Then what you wanna do is say,Hey, can I get photos?
Can I get videos?
Can I get testimonials?
(13:23):
Yeah, you want those speakerassets so that again, you can
build that social proof, thatcredibility, and you wanna test
your material because honestly,you might think, Hey, I've got
the greatest speech in theworld.
And then people aren't laughingwhere you thought they would
laugh, they might be laughing inplaces that you thought.
Oh, I didn't realize that wasfunny.
Or, they might not react tothings the way you want them to
(13:47):
react.
So it's really important to testit.
But the thing is, you also don'twanna get stuck speaking for no
fee for years and years either.
So the, that's where a lot ofspeakers struggle is how do I go
from.
No fee to getting paid.
And it's about the value thatpeople see in you and that you
(14:08):
have to solve a problem.
It's not about, oh I'm good.
I know how to deliver and I, Ilook great on stage.
No, it's, you have to solve aproblem.
That's what people want isthey're paying, they're not
paying you to be on stage.
They're not paying for greatdelivery.
That's expected these days, longgone are the days that, Hey, I'm
(14:29):
entertaining.
I'm gonna get paid for that.
They don't hire the motivationalspeaker again unless you're less
brown or Tony Robbins.
But for your.
Up and coming speakers, they'renot gonna hire you for that.
What they're gonna hire you for,especially in this economic
environment, is what problem canyou solve for me and how can you
(14:49):
transform my audience?
That's a big ask and that's whya lot of speakers will offer
consulting and coaching andaftercare programs because.
You're really not gonna changepeople's lives in a 45 minute
speech.
But what you can do is open thedoors for them and oh, okay.
I didn't think of it this way,or, oh, I wanna learn more.
(15:10):
So that's what it's about thesedays because we see in the news,
there's tons of layoffs, ai.
Everybody's uncertain what'sgonna happen, right?
Corporations are tighteningtheir spending on training and
speakers.
So you have to be able to proveto them that, hey, I can solve a
problem for you and you wanna,solve either money efficiency,
(15:35):
time, productivity, right?
Something that is tangible.
And there are lots of topicsthat can do that.
And in fact, I just saw rightbefore our call on LinkedIn,
they were posting us.
Some of the topics.
Ai, of course.
'cause that's the new HA thing,boy, is it?
Yeah.
Storytelling and sales.
Mental health leadership isalways gonna be a hot topic, but
(15:58):
it you have to differentiateyourself from literally the
other hundreds of thousands ofpeople who speak on leadership.
So there are still hot topicsthat you can solve, but you have
to prove, how am I differentthan all the other a hundred
thousand leadership speakers youcould book?
What am I going to do for you?
It's not about you.
(16:18):
It's not about your delivery.
It's about what you can give tothem and how you can solve their
issue.
So well said.
I love that so much.
And I, I started out speaking,on the college campuses.
So I solved, I talked aboutreally heavy topics, eating
disorders, drugs, alcohol,sexual assault.
(16:40):
I would use humor to keep thecollege kids awake and engaged,
but, I solved some pretty heavyproblems and they liked it, that
I was funny and motivating andrelatable, blah, blah, blah.
But, yeah you've gotta solvesomething and another thing I
think sometimes I'm gonna askyou, so you know, I had a pretty
(17:02):
heavy story.
I.
Lots of addiction, lots ofassault growing up, lots of
things, right?
Things that should never happento a little girl.
And I've done a lot of work andI'm so grateful that I'm healed
and blessed and can help peoplenow.
But people would compare theirstories to mine and they'd be
like, oh, I don't have a goodstory like yours.
And I would say, just becauseyou don't have as much trauma as
(17:26):
I did, doesn't mean you stillhaven't overcome things.
So one of the things I think isgood.
To be, to remind people about isyou don't have to, been
kidnapped and almost killed byyour ex-husband or overcome a
snake bite in the rainforest inBrazil or whatever.
You don't have to have a supertragic story in order to have a
(17:52):
really good overcoming obstaclestory.
Would you agree, Julie?
Absolutely.
So Matthew Dix, who is theauthor of the best storytelling
book I've ever read, story wherethey.
Has gone through a lot of stuff.
He was homeless at the age of18.
He was arrested for a crime hedidn't commit.
He almost died a couple oftimes.
(18:13):
So he's been through a lot ofstuff.
But what he will say is wherepeople connect with him are the
stories he would tell aboutgetting his.
Kid to eat vegetables or, thereally small things that
everybody can connect with.
Yeah.
So even though he's gone throughthese really horrific things and
(18:33):
he will talk about itoccasionally.
That's not where people connect.
So if you've gone throughsomething traumatic, then look
at the aspects of it.
Okay where would people connect?
How would they understand whatI'm going through?
Because it's the emotion behindthe trauma that people can
understand, right?
So identification, right?
Yes, but it's really the smalleveryday stories where people
(18:58):
connect, and that's why a lot ofcoaches will recommend to people
keep a story file because thingsthat you don't think much of and
that you'll forget in a week.
Or where people are going toconnect with you.
Pe, everybody can connect withthe bad boss or the hard job or
the tough coworker.
(19:19):
Yeah.
Certain failures that we all gothrough, the heartbreaks that we
go through in romanticrelationships, family troubles,
that's where people can connect.
So even if you do have a greatstory, which you know,
unfortunately a lot of peoplehave, because a lot of us do
overcome trauma.
Then look for the emotion behindit so that you don't turn people
(19:41):
off.
Don't assume people's stories.
And at the same time, you haveto be careful too, right?
Because you don't wanna triggerright?
Somebody in your audience withyour trauma as well.
And the other thing is don't usethe stages.
Therapy.
They talk about this all thetime.
You wanna speak from your scars,not your wounds.
Oh my gosh.
(20:02):
You wanna speak from your scars,not your wounds.
Amen.
Yes.
Yes.
And I think especially in thesedays when we're honestly all
have gone through trauma in thelast five years, that opening up
and being vulnerable about whatwe've gone through is important.
So if you do have that story, Ithink it is important to share
(20:24):
it.
Just realize.
First of all, you don't wannatrigger people, right?
You wanna make sure you'rehealed from it and look at the
common emotionality, and don'tassume, never say all or
everyone has gone through this'cause that bugs me.
Yeah.
I had somebody who said you havebeen successful in your life and
you've earned hundreds ofthousands of dollars, and now
(20:45):
you wanna move to the nextlevel.
And I'm like maybe you haven't,so that's where operative words,
like maybe, or perhaps, youwanna incorporate that.
'cause you don't wanna haveobjection in your audience's
mind immediately.
You don't want,'cause they'lljust shut off and they won't
listen to another word you'resaying.
So don't assume anything aboutwhere your audience has been or
(21:08):
where they're going through.
And unfortunately right now.
You can pretty much bet somebodyin your audience is grieving
somebody in your audience ishaving a really hard time.
So just be mindful of that whenyou're speaking and you wanna be
compassionate, empathetic fromthe, from your story as well.
But just realize people arehurting and you wanna connect
(21:30):
with them.
And once they feel heard andunderstood, then change can
happen and you can lift them up.
But, you have to be very carefuland never do all nothing when
you do your talks.
'cause you don't know.
You don't know.
I love that.
And yes, and I am, this is mypodcast, so I'm open with my
(21:50):
story, but obviously if I wasgoing to speak in a corporation
or in a professional setting, Iwould not mention, I would put
it a different way.
And I always tell people, youget to.
Decide how much you wanna share.
'cause some people aren't.
They're like, I don't wanna gothere.
And I'm like, okay.
It's, it is all about likecrafting.
I love the everyday stories andhelping people identify with the
(22:13):
emotions.
That's really what's it about,what it's about.
In aa, they talk about that.
They would tell me when I wasnew don't compare, but try to
identify with the feelings.
And I just, so many great thingsabout the 12 step world.
Julie, another thing I.
I see is sometimes people justwanna go hang out with other
(22:35):
speakers, or they'll pay a lotof money to get a speaker
directory, but then they'recompeting with all the other
speakers who are in thisdirectory for one spot.
So I always tell my clients, gofind event bookers.
Go find, go hang out, go developrelationships with the people
who actually could book you.
(22:57):
Do you agree?
Can you expand on that?
Speak yes, speaking is a hugerelationship building business.
And I'm gonna be a littleunpopular here.
I don't really believe in a lotof the paid services.
I think there is a lot, manyways, especially with AI now
that you can find your ownengagements.
Oh, trust me, there'll be plentyof people who wanna sell you
(23:17):
their systems.
Oh, my system.
We can go get you two.
We'll apply to 2000 gigs amonth.
For you and all sorts of things.
Be careful, especially whenyou're beginning, as you go
along.
Then ask established speakers.
What's worth it?
What's not worth it?
Don't just invest, be carefulbecause there are lots of money.
(23:38):
Who are, lots of people who arewilling to take care money.
But one thing that you reallywanna do is build relationships
not only with event planners,but with other speakers.
And contrary to most otherbusinesses with speakers who
speak about the same topic youdo, because you might view them
they're my competition, Julie,why the heck would I wanna build
(24:00):
relationship with them?
Because speaking is a differentindustry, if.
You get booked for a greatconference, they're not gonna
bring you back no matter howawesome you are the next year,
most likely.
There are a few exceptions tothis, but they want butts in
seats.
So they're going to bringsomebody different because they
wanna attract, people to buytickets to the conference and be
(24:24):
like, but I saw Elaine lastyear.
I knew she was awesome, I wannasee somebody different.
If you're friends with Elaineand you knock it out of the
park, Elaine will be like, Hey,I know this great speaker that
would be wonderful for yourconference.
So you wanna be referable.
And the way you're referable isby building relationships with
other speakers and referringthem first because you've got
(24:47):
the law of reciprocity workingin your favor.
It's really important to buildrelationships with other
speakers.
First of all, it's a lonelybusiness.
Second of all, you wanna learnfrom their expertise and have
them learn from yours.
And third, you wanna be able torefer each other.
So yes, it's great to establishthose relationships with the
event planners too.
And what I always suggest topeople, cold outreach is hard.
(25:09):
I was reading in one sales bookthat it takes, I think it was 20
to 50 touch points.
Oh my gosh.
Completely cold outreach.
Got really tired.
That's a.
So what you wanna do is youwanna build the relationships
and add value, because that'swhat sales is.
(25:31):
It's building relationships andadding value.
That's all it is before theconference.
You wanna get yourself top ofmind and keep top of mind by
adding value.
Come up with some resources,create newsletters.
How valuable post on LinkedInconnect with them on LinkedIn
and for God's sake, do not pitchthem as soon as you connect with
(25:53):
them.
Oh please.
If I get one more, I've justgotten to where I'm just like,
do not try to sell me anything.
It's yeah, it's so rude.
I people don't understand salesand honestly, I'm sorry.
There's no excuse for it rightnow.
There are so many books, there'sso much stuff out there that
teaches you how to sell forfree.
You could borrow from a libraryand there's no excuse.
(26:14):
It's about buildingrelationships, adding value.
You do that, you're not gonnahave as much difficulty when it
is time that you want something,and again.
What you're doing again, isyou're providing value, you're
solving a problem.
So a lot of people think, oh, Ican't sell myself.
(26:35):
When you're not sellingyourself, you're selling a
solution to a problem.
You're selling a value.
Yes.
And if you reframe it as you'redoing them a favor because they
have a pain point and you have asolution, then that takes the
icky factor out of it that a lotof people are scared about
sales, but honestly speaking it.
It is not about speaking, it'sabout sales first.
(26:58):
David Arin, who is a well knownNSA speaker, he always says,
speaking is not the business.
Getting the gigs is thebusiness.
And a lot of people don'trealize that when they get in
the speaking world is thatyou're gonna be spending 90% of
your time marketing outreach,follow up relationship building,
(27:22):
and 10% speaking.
Wow.
Sobering.
Sobering, but good.
And if you are a coach, author,expert, and you just want to
grow your business, speaking forfree is absolutely okay.
Absolutely.
(27:42):
It's, I think it's good to say,you know what?
This sounds like a whole othercareer, which it is.
It's a whole other incomestream.
And for a while I had to put myspeaking on the shelf'cause I
was just so busy caretaking andcoaching and, I just knew okay,
that's just gonna go over herefor a minute.
And it's absolutely okay to belike, you know what?
(28:03):
I don't wanna do all this extrawork.
And just go speak for free,which I do all the time.
I love speaking and I lovelifting people up and I'm trying
to practice discernment becauseI need to get back to the paid
thing too.
Julie, you were just dropping somany golden nuggets.
I just went after ourconversation, I was like, I have
(28:24):
to stay connected with thiswoman, and we are gonna be
working together in the future,and I'm gonna be sending you
more people because I just feellike you're very.
Pragmatic.
There's no smoke up your ass.
There's, and yes, it'scompetitive.
And being a professional speakeris also rewarding.
Yes, it can be lonely.
(28:44):
I definitely had a few nights inmy hotel rooms by myself, tired,
exhausted, and ah.
But I've also gotten to go tosome amazing places, haven't
you?
Like I've spoken in 44 states.
I've been to places.
I don't need to go back to NorthDakota, but I've been, yeah.
To go back to your statementabout.
Hey, if you wanna be a coach oryou're trying to feed a
(29:06):
different side of your business,absolutely speaking, it's a
great way to go.
I have a friend who is fantasticon stage and she spoke for the
Project Management Institute andthey don't pay, or they don't
pay much for engagements.
However, she knocked it out ofthe park so much it fed her
coaching pipeline, so that'swhat I always tell people is,
(29:27):
please do not.
Treat a no fee engagement oh,they're not paying me, so I
don't care because you don'tknow who's in the audience.
Never know.
I've heard so many of my speakerfriends say, I got this great
engagement out of a no feeengagement, you have to treat
every time you step onto thatstage as a privilege that you
(29:49):
know you're adding value tothem.
They're spending their valuabletime to listen to you, so you
wanna knock it out of the park.
And how that's gonna benefit youis word of mouth, because that
is the best marketing you couldever have.
It's not the fancy website.
I have another friend who.
(30:10):
Is a multimillionaire fromspeaking.
He was in sales first, and thenhe's my website's not fancy.
He doesn't get his business fromthat.
It's because he has a reallyunique personality in delivering
and he delivers value and heunderstands the relationship
building part of sales.
And that's what he teaches ishow to build relationships.
So I love that Julie.
(30:32):
And I wanna speak to that toobecause, as a comedian coming up
in New York, you do a lot oflike basement open mics for
three people, five people.
But it prepares you for thecrazy stuff that happens out on
the road.
'cause sometimes you have awarm, slightly tipsy audience.
They're tightly packed in,that's a hot crowd.
(30:54):
And you can over, you can think,oh, I'm hilarious.
I'm so killing it.
And then sometimes it's actuallyit was a really hot crowd.
You're good.
You know what I mean?
So I'm so grateful I came upthat way'cause it helped me be
versatile and bulletproof as myex comedian, boyfriend used to
tell me.
But also, yeah, as a speaker.
(31:15):
Even if you're like, oh, Ithought there were gonna be 500
people and there's five, younever know and you don't wanna
phone it in.
I've gotten amazing things fromsmaller audiences and also the
gift of being prepared.
So I was in, I was asked tospeak about quitting smoking on
a college campus in Queens.
(31:36):
I've never smoked, but I did allthis research because I wanted
to be prepared and.
It was horrifying and inspire.
It's like some of the, we haddoctors recommending cigarettes
and dentists, are you kidding?
But I went and I was so overprepared and I had so much stuff
and they were like, Elaine, theother speaker, something
(31:57):
happened.
Can you stretch?
And I was like, yep, I got it.
And so that's another thing.
You need to be flexible becauseso many times they're like, you
know what?
We're running tight.
I know you're supposed to do 30.
Can you do 15?
And you wanna be able to say,yep.
And that's when you'd still dothe opening and the closing and
you pull out some of the middleor Oh my gosh, somebody didn't
(32:19):
show.
Can you stretch?
Yeah.
How much time do you need?
And that takes practice.
That takes mastery.
That takes working with somebodylike me or Julie, however.
That Booker will love you and beso grateful and they will
probably spin, put your name allover the place because you saved
(32:39):
their butt.
Do you wanna add to any of that?
You need to be easy to workwith.
You hear these horrifyingstories.
Certainly the, in the musicworld about how difficult people
are to work with in the actingworld, their divas.
But in the speaking world, it'sa privilege.
Don't.
Yeah, and you need to be veryeasy to work with.
(33:00):
Do they give you a deadline?
Submit the paperwork before thedeadline?
Yes.
Be prepared and for God's sake,be on time.
So you're not the reason thatthe other speaker has to cut
their time because you do that,first of all, the other speaker
will remember that.
For other events, event plannerstalk.
(33:22):
They're gonna be upset with you,so that's gonna hurt you on
their, some practice with atimer.
That's where Toastmasters isreally handy.
Yeah, it's, make sure you arewithin that time because you
never want to be that speakerthat causes another speaker to
have to cut their material.
So be very easy to work with.
Let them know when you getthere.
(33:43):
Let them, ease their minds.
Offer to help.
I'm sorry, you're not too goodthat you can't help.
Help set up, or you can't helpchairs or you can't help them
with other things.
Being a meeting planner is oneof the most stressful jobs.
Yeah.
And there is always somethingthat goes wrong.
Yeah.
And you don't want to be thereason for their stress at all.
(34:04):
So think put yourself in theirshoes.
What can I do to make theirlives easier?
Yeah.
Every step of the way.
I love that.
And one of the things is.
I have a checklist, right?
So make sure everything'scharged.
Bring your own dang water.
Don't expect them, if it'sthere, sweet, if it's a super
duper green room, awesome.
But that's not always the case.
(34:25):
And another thing is, yeah, Itext them, I'm here, blah, blah,
blah, blah, blah.
And then I don't like sittingaround because I get tight and
constricted, so I will.
I will tell them I'm gonna gowalk around backstage or if they
don't need help.
And I will say, I'm here, butI'm just gonna be over there
because.
That way they're not going,where'd she go?
(34:45):
What?
I need to ask her a question.
Have your intro printed out,even laminated.
Keep it simple like there's amillion tiny nuances.
Anyway, Julie, I think we'regonna have to do a part two
because there's so many things Iforget that I know, and you've
helped remind me of all thethings that I know and, part
two, maybe we'll do somethingabout what's the worst mistake
(35:07):
you've made?
Or, so if people wanna know moreabout you, how do they find you?
What's the easiest way?
LinkedIn.
I live on LinkedIn, so JulieCooley.
Julie Cooley.
Okay.
Julie Cooley.
Julie rhymes.
So I, and I'm gonna have that inthe show notes too.
Thank you so much for joiningand sharing your expertness,
(35:30):
your.
So authentic and real, and it'sjust refreshing in this crazy
business.
'cause there's a lot of peoplewho unfortunately are not.
Anything you wanna say partingwords, just be careful out there
because again, they, there's somany people who wanna take
advantage of you as a speakerwho will promise you the world
(35:53):
and there are some legitimateup.
People out there, so you don'twanna, it's not all or nothing,
but I highly recommend theNational Speakers Association.
Most chapters will let you visitfor free for the first meeting.
Check it out.
But even if you don't join NSA.
Surround yourself with otherspeakers who are above what
(36:14):
you're doing because that willelevate you and then help other
speakers as you grow in yourspeaking career and ask them,
because most of us have mademistakes in investing in the
wrong things or have heard, andyou don't wanna make those same
mistakes.
So don't, you have.
Surround yourself with a networkso that you can say, Hey, I'm
thinking about this, or Thissounds too good to be true.
(36:37):
What do you think?
And so you can get thatexperience and ask multiple
people.
That way at least, hopefully,that you know their mistakes can
save you from making the sameones.
I love it.
I love it.
Thank you Julie, so much and Ilook forward to.
Working with you and connectingand doing a part two.
Alright everybody, bye.
(36:59):
Take care.
Thank you.
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