January 30, 2025 • 19 mins
Today on CARD TALK, I’ll cover:
-a quick personal update & new scheduling moving forward
-why court cards can be challenging for people
-how working with court cards can help us connect with others
-prompts for getting to know court card personalities better
Recommended resources from the episode:
bee scolnick: getting sick as the empire falls
five days of offerings essay series // consider community with court cards
During the Next Administration, We Save Ourselves from Rewire News Group
For more on Meg, check out 3amtarot.com, and order your copy of Finding the Fool through Bookshop.org or your favorite local bookstore.
Find episode transcripts and more over on the CARD TALK website. And as a special thank you for CARD TALK listeners, click here to download a completely free, exclusive workbook for building your best personal tarot practice.
Love what you’re hearing? Support the pod with a one-time donation or recurring subscription, and please subscribe, review, and share with a friend or two!
CARD TALK is written, edited, and produced by Meg Jones Wall of 3am.tarot. Theme music created by PaulYudin.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I'm Meg Jones-Wall and this is Card Talk, a mini
podcast for tarot basics andevergreen insights.
I'm here to help you build atarot practice that works for
you.
Glad you're here.
In today's episode, we aregoing to be talking about
connections and community anddifferent ways that tarot can
help us deepen our relationshipswith each other.
(00:33):
Before we dive in, I just wantto acknowledge that the gap
between the last episode andthis episode is not
insignificant and to say thankyou to everyone for your
patience and for your grace inmy unexpected gap in publishing
episodes.
If you are a subscriber to mynewsletter, if you follow me on
social media or if you listen tothe other podcast that I work
(00:55):
on called Call your Coven, youmight know that one of my
dearest friends and professionalcollaborators, b Skolnick, has
been navigating some reallyscary health stuff that, to be
completely honest, had myemotions very close to the
surface and made it a little bithard for me to do things.
If I'm being really real, sheis still waiting for a
(01:15):
resolution, but she was in thehospital undergoing tests and
surgeries and biopsies foralmost 40 days and it was really
fucking scary.
She recently wrote a incrediblybrave and beautiful piece
talking about what she's beenthrough, what she has known so
far, what she's still trying tofigure out, and I'm going to
link it for you in the shownotes.
I haven't really known how totalk about all of this, because
(01:37):
it feels weird to talk aboutsomeone else's health issues as
a reason for your own personalemotions shifting or your own
workflow kind of changing.
But if you have ever hadsomeone you love going through a
scary stressful time or dealingwith medical shit, being in the
hospital, anything like that,you know how much fear and worry
and, frankly, anticipatorygrief can be involved with that,
(02:00):
and so I really appreciate yourcompassion, as things really
slowed down for me.
Beyond that, because, of course, that's not the only thing
that's going on I live in theUnited States and Trump sure did
get elected for a second term,and so when my partner, jaina
Kadlec, and I realized thatTrump was indeed going to be
taking office for a second termand would almost certainly be
(02:20):
targeting queer couples andqueer relationships and queer
people in general, we decided toget married before the
inauguration, and so all of thathas really meant that I have
been out of commission for mostof January with traveling and
wedding planning and celebration.
Now, none of this wasparticularly planned or it was
planned pretty quickly, but I amso glad and excited to be back
(02:42):
working on Card Talk, to be herewith a bunch of episodes ready
to go for you, and I again justreally appreciate your patience
and understanding with thisunexpected hiatus.
But now that I'm back, I alsojust want to be frank that I am
planning to have, hopefully, apretty major surgery that I've
been trying to get for at leasta decade as soon as March,
(03:04):
should you know, insurance anddoctors and everything allow,
which means that in anticipationof that, I'm going to shift
Card Talk from being a weeklypodcast to being in every other
week podcast.
This is going to better allowme to schedule episodes far out
in advance and hopefully willalso mean that I won't need to
take another hiatus when mysurgery happens.
I really want this to be aconsistent offering and this is
(03:26):
going to help me do that.
Now, the surgery obviously willbe planned, whereas these other
things weren't as planned, soI'll be able to give you a heads
up if I do need to take thattime away.
But I want to do my best toavoid that preemptively, and
that means changing up theschedule a little bit and
showing myself a little bit ofgrace in the work that I have to
do, um and what will likely bea lengthy and difficult recovery
(03:49):
.
Frankly, okay, that was a lotof personal updates that you may
or may not have cared about,but thank you for your patience.
Thank you for listening and forbeing here and for taking time
for my words and my ideas to bepart of your day.
Now let's get into the actualtarot of it all.
Here on card Talk, we've beendoing this little intro series
on the different sections of thetarot.
I've done episodes introducingthe majors and then another
(04:10):
episode talking about how tointerpret the majors in readings
, and then I've done the samekind of pair of episodes for the
minor arcana pips or thenumbered cards.
We have an intro to the pipsand then we have a how to read
pips in readings.
Now the last section that wehave to address is the minor
arcana court cards, the 16 cardsthat are often shown as figures
or human personalities.
(04:32):
But before we dive into what,for a lot of people, is the
hardest to understand section ofthe tarot, I thought it might
be helpful to connect thesecards to community building and
connections, and to talk alittle bit about how we can use
tarot for these very things.
Now, part of the reason I wantto do this is very practical.
Court cards can be tricky for alot of folks and, while I have
(04:52):
plenty of things to offer in theintro and reading episodes that
I have planned for court cards,I think that seeing them as
people and personalities can bea useful way to approach these
cards, especially if you'reeither really new to the tarot
or have historically reallystruggled with these cards.
But I also want to do thisbecause Trump just took office
here in the United States.
(05:13):
I'm recording this episode onFriday, january 24th.
He took office just a couple ofdays ago and it's already been
complete chaos.
But beyond the United States,fascism is rising around the
world.
We are facing collectively,universally, as a global
community, rapidly escalatingclimate disasters, another
pandemic when we still haven'treally made it through COVID and
(05:35):
the last one, a lot ofbillionaires in a lot of places
cracking down on public servicesand public safety and methods
of communication.
We're seeing the destruction ofsocial media and we're seeing
everything getting moreexpensive all the time, to name
just a few things.
Every single person I know isdeeply stressed out and scared
and also, almost everyone I knowfeels like they're the only
(05:58):
ones who somehow aren'tnavigating all of the stress
very well.
Who, who, who are not doingenough to combat all of the
things that we are facing.
But if you're on social mediaor you read a lot of newsletters
or you're particularlywell-read when it comes to
fascism or history or communitywork or mutual aid or organizing
or anything like that, you mayhave heard the expression
(06:20):
community is the antidote tofascism and frankly, I could not
agree more with the statement.
But there are a lot of differentways to build community and
there are a lot of useful thingsto know about community, and
because court cards tend to bethe most challenging section of
the deck, and because communityis something that we all
desperately need right now, Iwanted to combine these things
(06:41):
into one particular topicalepisode that I just hope will be
really supportive and thoughtprovoking and helpful for you in
this particular moment.
Now.
I wrote a whole essay on thisparticular topic on community
and court cards back in Novemberof 2024.
This was part of a little essayseries that I did called five
days of offerings, and I'm goingto link both the series and
(07:02):
this particular essay into theshow notes, but I want to read a
part of this essay for you sothat you get a sense of what I'm
talking about here.
Quote though they can exist inthe same groups or with the same
people, community andfriendship are not necessarily
the same thing and do not servethe same functions.
And especially right now, whenso many people are seeking out
(07:23):
community through a lens ofmutual aid and activism and when
many are being told to buildcommunity in order to better
survive the world we live in,it's really important to know
the difference.
End quote.
And skipping ahead a little bit, quote we might not want to be
best friends with everyone inour community.
That's okay.
We just have to remember thatthey are humans and that they
(07:45):
are worthy of dignity andrespect.
In the same way, the courtcards represent all kinds of
people and energies, some thatyou may love and others that
make you roll your eyes or groan, but each of them have inherent
worthiness, along with valuableskills and talents and
perspectives that servedifferent functions.
(08:06):
Just because the page of wandsisn't the king of pentacles
doesn't mean that their giftsaren't impressive in their own
right or that their energy can'tbe helpful somewhere.
End quote.
Community is complicated and Ithink it's particularly easy,
especially if you are someonethat has historically felt kind
of isolated or had troublefitting into different spaces or
(08:28):
making friends or finding yourpeople.
I think it's really easy tofall into the trap of believing
that the people we are incommunity with also need to be
our friend or should be ourfriend, or that we can only be
in community with people wewould also want to be friends
with.
But if we're only willing orable to connect with people and
have empathy and love for peoplethat we want to also have
(08:52):
backstory with and history with,and intimacy with, and personal
relationship with, it's goingto really limit our capacity to
show up for people that we mightfind annoying or frustrating or
strange.
Those people are still worthyof humanity and dignity and care
and respect, even if we thinkthey're really frustrating or
don't always understand wherethey're coming from or what
(09:13):
their deal is or why they'reacting the way that they are.
And what I go on to talk aboutin that particular essay and
what I want to address moredeeply here is that court cards
can help us specifically learnhow to navigate, work with,
understand and even learn toenjoy and appreciate
personalities or combinations ofenergy that might feel
(09:33):
complicated or weird oruncomfortable or too different
than you.
If any of this sounds appealingor helpful to you, I'm going to
include again a direct link tothis essay in the show notes,
which also does include a tarotspread that you can use to
explore this concept.
But the reason I think this isso relevant right now is because
everywhere I look I'm seeingcalls for community building.
(09:53):
Now this happened the firsttime that Trump took office as
well, and has been an increasingcall over the last decade as
fascism continues to rise again,not only in the United States
but around the world.
But community building again iscomplicated and it takes time
and it takes a lot of effort andsometimes it's not always as
easy as just joining ourneighborhood mutual aid
(10:15):
organization and showing up.
And especially because wearinga face mask has become this
really politicized andcriticized act instead of just
what it is, which is a simpleand effective public health
measure, a lot of us who areimmunocompromised or disabled
can't show up in public spaces,which means that our community
building has to be done online,and when our community building
(10:36):
is done online, it can be evenharder sometimes to recognize
the humanity in another person,because we might just be seeing
their words or their littleavatar and not remembering that
there is a whole human beingbehind that other screen and
those lines of text.
Working with the court cards canreally be an exercise in
humility because it forces us toaddress what someone else might
(10:59):
bring to the table and how thatperson or that personality or
that energy might feel reallydifferent than what we ourselves
bring to the table.
It can allow us to see thevalue in different approaches
and perspectives and historiesand it can also show us how
different approaches are goingto be useful in different
circumstances and perspectivesand histories.
And it can also show us howdifferent approaches are going
to be useful in differentcircumstances or situations.
(11:20):
Working with the court cards,whether that's in your readings
or in journal entries or throughtarot spreads or in literally
any other capacity you canimagine, can really help you
understand what's showing up forcommunity, what taking care of
community and what being incommunity means for you, what
you're really good at, what youreally bring to community spaces
(11:40):
and also what you might need towork on or what might feel more
challenging or complicated ortender for you to navigate,
depending on who you are andwhere you are and what your
capacity is.
We're all going to havedifferent ways of showing up and
I don't want you to discountthose ways just because they
don't look like what someoneelse can do or what someone else
(12:00):
has to offer.
When we look at all 16 courtcards together at the same time
as a big group, we might seekind of a motley crew right, we
have a lot of different peoplewith a lot of different
strengths.
We have people of differentlevels of experience and
different areas of interest.
We have people with differentskills and talents and abilities
, and that is a good thing.
(12:21):
That is a really cool way tothink about community different
people with different abilitiesand talents and perspectives and
histories and experiences andknowledge bases and other
connections of their own thatare all coming together towards
a common goal or to take care ofone another.
Now, you're not going to loveevery single one of the court
cards.
(12:41):
Probably, if you work with thetarot long enough, you might
learn to really appreciate all16 figures of the courts.
But chances are there are acouple court cards that feel
really uncomfortable or strangeor confusing or like bum you out
when they show up in readings.
And that's fine.
That's being a person.
We're not all going to getalong with every single person
we meet every day forever, andso I think it's really powerful
(13:04):
to consider which court cardsfeel comfortable and which ones
don't, which court cards we seeourselves in and which ones feel
like they might be inopposition to those other cards.
Right, working with these 16figures can really allow us to
learn more about who we are, howwe want to show up, what skills
we bring to the table and alsowhat other kinds of
personalities or levels ofexperience we find the most
(13:27):
comfortable.
And when we've identified whichcards feel the most comfortable
, we can also do the inverseright and really start to think
critically about which cardsfeel uncomfortable and why that
might be, and what kinds ofapproaches might be best suited
to interacting with or engagingwith or even learning from these
other cards.
Community work can beuncomfortable, and so can
(13:48):
working with the minor arcanacourt cards.
We don't always understand whatthey're trying to say, just
like with people, sometimesthese cards require a little bit
of additional attention or careor insight.
They force us to listen in waysthat might be frustrating to us
, and I think part of the reasonthat court cards can be so
challenging for people is thatpeople can be challenging for
(14:10):
people.
We don't always understandwhere someone else is coming
from, and we don't always wantto take the time to really ask
the questions and engage withwhat their history is and why
they're bringing a certain kindof approach or perspective or
opinion to a situation.
We don't always have time to dothat or have the ability to do
that, and while there are lotsof ways to build community, both
(14:32):
in real life, like in physicalspaces, and also in digital
spaces, I really dofundamentally believe that
learning to get more comfortablenavigating the court cards in
and out of your tarot readingscan genuinely help you learn to
understand different personalitytypes and different groups of
people in stronger ways.
It can really build up thosemuscles and allow you to learn
(14:54):
how to sit with discomfortaround personalities that might
be really different than yourown.
Just like working with courtcards, learning to build
community takes a really longtime, and so I really want to
encourage you to be patient withthis process.
Again, I'm going to have twomore episodes for you on court
cards in general, and I willeventually be doing episodes on
every single card in the deck,but in this particular moment in
(15:17):
time, if you find yourselfstruggling to build community,
if you find yourself havingtrouble finding a place where
you feel like you fit, or if youfind yourself struggling to
know what you have to offer orwhat your capacity is for
showing up work with the courtcards, I think it will really
help you learn to offer or whatyour capacity is for showing up
work with the court cards.
I think it will really help youlearn to see yourself in new
lights and also learn to feelmore comfortable engaging with
(15:37):
different kinds of personalities.
I always like to end with apractical tip or trick in these
episodes, and so today's tipcomes straight from the essay I
shared, which again exploresreally using court cards to
learn more about yourself andyour preferences when it comes
to community.
Quote.
Think about the 16 figures ofthe minor arcana courts, if you
like.
(15:58):
Literally grab your tarot deckand pull them all out.
Which ones do you relate mostto connect with, see yourself in
?
Which ones do you feelrepresent you?
Which ones do you love to seethat feel comfortable or
affirming or supportive?
End quote.
I also want to add which cardsdo you respect the most?
Which cards show up or you lookat and you say, wow, I wish I
(16:19):
was like that.
Which cards do you admire?
Quote, and which cards confuseyou, frustrate you or upsetting
to see in readings.
Which cards are harder for youto connect with or understand.
Which figures activate feelingsof discomfort, which ones bum
you out or irritate you or offerpersonality traits that you
don't particularly like andquote.
(16:41):
And again I'll add to that,which cards bug you, which cards
don't make sense to you, whichcards feel like they remind you
of someone in your life or thatyou used to have in your life
that you always struggled toconnect with or understand.
Which cards are hardest for youto empathize with.
Even if you are brand new to thetarot, I really want to
(17:03):
encourage you to take some timeto look at these 16 cards and
think about the vibes thatthey're giving to you, how they
seem, what they feel like ifthey remind you of someone you
know, whether you like thatperson or not, et cetera.
What is your initial reaction tothese cards and what stories
might you tell about them?
What do you already feel likeyou know about these figures.
(17:23):
I also want to encourage you tothink about what might you be
misunderstanding about thesecards.
Which ones feel like friendsinstinctively and which ones
feel like enemies is such astrong word but which cards feel
like they might be people thatare harder for you to engage
with or people that you preferto avoid?
Now, none of this is aboutjudging the court cards or
anything like that, but I dowant to push you, regardless of
(17:47):
your level of experience withthe tarot, to recognize which
personality traits can feel themost challenging for you to
navigate or connect with, and toreally think about how working
with specific court cards thatmight embody those traits can
help you learn to hold space forpersonalities that are
difficult for you in real life.
Really being engaged withcommunity is going to require
you to occasionally workalongside people you don't
(18:09):
really like, and so, if you wantto be someone that is more
engaged with community and notjust be working alongside
friends, I think this is areally powerful way to start to
reclaim your capacity forcommunity and start to flex
those muscles so that you canget more involved in both
physical and digital communitiesfor the long haul.
That's all I have for you todayin this episode of Card Talk,
(18:32):
but I will be back soon with therest of our introductory
episodes to the court cards.
Thank you again for spendingthis time with me and I'll see
you again soon.
Card Talk episodes are alwaysfree for everyone to enjoy, so
if you love what you hear,please consider supporting the
podcast by subscribing,recommending Card Talk to a
friend or two or donating tohelp with production costs.
(18:53):
You can find episodetranscripts.
Learn more about me and join mysignature Tarot Conservatory
membership program through mywebsite, 3amtarotcom.
Thanks for listening and seeyou next time.
I'm Meg Jones-Wall and this is Card Talk, a mini
podcast for tarot basics andevergreen insights.
I'm here to help you build atarot practice that works for
you.
Glad you're here.
In today's episode, we aregoing to be talking about
connections and community anddifferent ways that tarot can
help us deepen our relationshipswith each other.
(00:33):
Before we dive in, I just wantto acknowledge that the gap
between the last episode andthis episode is not
insignificant and to say thankyou to everyone for your
patience and for your grace inmy unexpected gap in publishing
episodes.
If you are a subscriber to mynewsletter, if you follow me on
social media or if you listen tothe other podcast that I work
(00:55):
on called Call your Coven, youmight know that one of my
dearest friends and professionalcollaborators, b Skolnick, has
been navigating some reallyscary health stuff that, to be
completely honest, had myemotions very close to the
surface and made it a little bithard for me to do things.
If I'm being really real, sheis still waiting for a
(01:15):
resolution, but she was in thehospital undergoing tests and
surgeries and biopsies foralmost 40 days and it was really
fucking scary.
She recently wrote a incrediblybrave and beautiful piece
talking about what she's beenthrough, what she has known so
far, what she's still trying tofigure out, and I'm going to
link it for you in the shownotes.
I haven't really known how totalk about all of this, because
(01:37):
it feels weird to talk aboutsomeone else's health issues as
a reason for your own personalemotions shifting or your own
workflow kind of changing.
But if you have ever hadsomeone you love going through a
scary stressful time or dealingwith medical shit, being in the
hospital, anything like that,you know how much fear and worry
and, frankly, anticipatorygrief can be involved with that,
(02:00):
and so I really appreciate yourcompassion, as things really
slowed down for me.
Beyond that, because, of course, that's not the only thing
that's going on I live in theUnited States and Trump sure did
get elected for a second term,and so when my partner, jaina
Kadlec, and I realized thatTrump was indeed going to be
taking office for a second termand would almost certainly be
(02:20):
targeting queer couples andqueer relationships and queer
people in general, we decided toget married before the
inauguration, and so all of thathas really meant that I have
been out of commission for mostof January with traveling and
wedding planning and celebration.
Now, none of this wasparticularly planned or it was
planned pretty quickly, but I amso glad and excited to be back
(02:42):
working on Card Talk, to be herewith a bunch of episodes ready
to go for you, and I again justreally appreciate your patience
and understanding with thisunexpected hiatus.
But now that I'm back, I alsojust want to be frank that I am
planning to have, hopefully, apretty major surgery that I've
been trying to get for at leasta decade as soon as March,
(03:04):
should you know, insurance anddoctors and everything allow,
which means that in anticipationof that, I'm going to shift
Card Talk from being a weeklypodcast to being in every other
week podcast.
This is going to better allowme to schedule episodes far out
in advance and hopefully willalso mean that I won't need to
take another hiatus when mysurgery happens.
I really want this to be aconsistent offering and this is
(03:26):
going to help me do that.
Now, the surgery obviously willbe planned, whereas these other
things weren't as planned, soI'll be able to give you a heads
up if I do need to take thattime away.
But I want to do my best toavoid that preemptively, and
that means changing up theschedule a little bit and
showing myself a little bit ofgrace in the work that I have to
do, um and what will likely bea lengthy and difficult recovery
(03:49):
.
Frankly, okay, that was a lotof personal updates that you may
or may not have cared about,but thank you for your patience.
Thank you for listening and forbeing here and for taking time
for my words and my ideas to bepart of your day.
Now let's get into the actualtarot of it all.
Here on card Talk, we've beendoing this little intro series
on the different sections of thetarot.
I've done episodes introducingthe majors and then another
(04:10):
episode talking about how tointerpret the majors in readings
, and then I've done the samekind of pair of episodes for the
minor arcana pips or thenumbered cards.
We have an intro to the pipsand then we have a how to read
pips in readings.
Now the last section that wehave to address is the minor
arcana court cards, the 16 cardsthat are often shown as figures
or human personalities.
(04:32):
But before we dive into what,for a lot of people, is the
hardest to understand section ofthe tarot, I thought it might
be helpful to connect thesecards to community building and
connections, and to talk alittle bit about how we can use
tarot for these very things.
Now, part of the reason I wantto do this is very practical.
Court cards can be tricky for alot of folks and, while I have
(04:52):
plenty of things to offer in theintro and reading episodes that
I have planned for court cards,I think that seeing them as
people and personalities can bea useful way to approach these
cards, especially if you'reeither really new to the tarot
or have historically reallystruggled with these cards.
But I also want to do thisbecause Trump just took office
here in the United States.
(05:13):
I'm recording this episode onFriday, january 24th.
He took office just a couple ofdays ago and it's already been
complete chaos.
But beyond the United States,fascism is rising around the
world.
We are facing collectively,universally, as a global
community, rapidly escalatingclimate disasters, another
pandemic when we still haven'treally made it through COVID and
(05:35):
the last one, a lot ofbillionaires in a lot of places
cracking down on public servicesand public safety and methods
of communication.
We're seeing the destruction ofsocial media and we're seeing
everything getting moreexpensive all the time, to name
just a few things.
Every single person I know isdeeply stressed out and scared
and also, almost everyone I knowfeels like they're the only
(05:58):
ones who somehow aren'tnavigating all of the stress
very well.
Who, who, who are not doingenough to combat all of the
things that we are facing.
But if you're on social mediaor you read a lot of newsletters
or you're particularlywell-read when it comes to
fascism or history or communitywork or mutual aid or organizing
or anything like that, you mayhave heard the expression
(06:20):
community is the antidote tofascism and frankly, I could not
agree more with the statement.
But there are a lot of differentways to build community and
there are a lot of useful thingsto know about community, and
because court cards tend to bethe most challenging section of
the deck, and because communityis something that we all
desperately need right now, Iwanted to combine these things
(06:41):
into one particular topicalepisode that I just hope will be
really supportive and thoughtprovoking and helpful for you in
this particular moment.
Now.
I wrote a whole essay on thisparticular topic on community
and court cards back in Novemberof 2024.
This was part of a little essayseries that I did called five
days of offerings, and I'm goingto link both the series and
(07:02):
this particular essay into theshow notes, but I want to read a
part of this essay for you sothat you get a sense of what I'm
talking about here.
Quote though they can exist inthe same groups or with the same
people, community andfriendship are not necessarily
the same thing and do not servethe same functions.
And especially right now, whenso many people are seeking out
(07:23):
community through a lens ofmutual aid and activism and when
many are being told to buildcommunity in order to better
survive the world we live in,it's really important to know
the difference.
End quote.
And skipping ahead a little bit, quote we might not want to be
best friends with everyone inour community.
That's okay.
We just have to remember thatthey are humans and that they
(07:45):
are worthy of dignity andrespect.
In the same way, the courtcards represent all kinds of
people and energies, some thatyou may love and others that
make you roll your eyes or groan, but each of them have inherent
worthiness, along with valuableskills and talents and
perspectives that servedifferent functions.
(08:06):
Just because the page of wandsisn't the king of pentacles
doesn't mean that their giftsaren't impressive in their own
right or that their energy can'tbe helpful somewhere.
End quote.
Community is complicated and Ithink it's particularly easy,
especially if you are someonethat has historically felt kind
of isolated or had troublefitting into different spaces or
(08:28):
making friends or finding yourpeople.
I think it's really easy tofall into the trap of believing
that the people we are incommunity with also need to be
our friend or should be ourfriend, or that we can only be
in community with people wewould also want to be friends
with.
But if we're only willing orable to connect with people and
have empathy and love for peoplethat we want to also have
(08:52):
backstory with and history with,and intimacy with, and personal
relationship with, it's goingto really limit our capacity to
show up for people that we mightfind annoying or frustrating or
strange.
Those people are still worthyof humanity and dignity and care
and respect, even if we thinkthey're really frustrating or
don't always understand wherethey're coming from or what
(09:13):
their deal is or why they'reacting the way that they are.
And what I go on to talk aboutin that particular essay and
what I want to address moredeeply here is that court cards
can help us specifically learnhow to navigate, work with,
understand and even learn toenjoy and appreciate
personalities or combinations ofenergy that might feel
(09:33):
complicated or weird oruncomfortable or too different
than you.
If any of this sounds appealingor helpful to you, I'm going to
include again a direct link tothis essay in the show notes,
which also does include a tarotspread that you can use to
explore this concept.
But the reason I think this isso relevant right now is because
everywhere I look I'm seeingcalls for community building.
(09:53):
Now this happened the firsttime that Trump took office as
well, and has been an increasingcall over the last decade as
fascism continues to rise again,not only in the United States
but around the world.
But community building again iscomplicated and it takes time
and it takes a lot of effort andsometimes it's not always as
easy as just joining ourneighborhood mutual aid
(10:15):
organization and showing up.
And especially because wearinga face mask has become this
really politicized andcriticized act instead of just
what it is, which is a simpleand effective public health
measure, a lot of us who areimmunocompromised or disabled
can't show up in public spaces,which means that our community
building has to be done online,and when our community building
(10:36):
is done online, it can be evenharder sometimes to recognize
the humanity in another person,because we might just be seeing
their words or their littleavatar and not remembering that
there is a whole human beingbehind that other screen and
those lines of text.
Working with the court cards canreally be an exercise in
humility because it forces us toaddress what someone else might
(10:59):
bring to the table and how thatperson or that personality or
that energy might feel reallydifferent than what we ourselves
bring to the table.
It can allow us to see thevalue in different approaches
and perspectives and historiesand it can also show us how
different approaches are goingto be useful in different
circumstances and perspectivesand histories.
And it can also show us howdifferent approaches are going
to be useful in differentcircumstances or situations.
(11:20):
Working with the court cards,whether that's in your readings
or in journal entries or throughtarot spreads or in literally
any other capacity you canimagine, can really help you
understand what's showing up forcommunity, what taking care of
community and what being incommunity means for you, what
you're really good at, what youreally bring to community spaces
(11:40):
and also what you might need towork on or what might feel more
challenging or complicated ortender for you to navigate,
depending on who you are andwhere you are and what your
capacity is.
We're all going to havedifferent ways of showing up and
I don't want you to discountthose ways just because they
don't look like what someoneelse can do or what someone else
(12:00):
has to offer.
When we look at all 16 courtcards together at the same time
as a big group, we might seekind of a motley crew right, we
have a lot of different peoplewith a lot of different
strengths.
We have people of differentlevels of experience and
different areas of interest.
We have people with differentskills and talents and abilities
, and that is a good thing.
(12:21):
That is a really cool way tothink about community different
people with different abilitiesand talents and perspectives and
histories and experiences andknowledge bases and other
connections of their own thatare all coming together towards
a common goal or to take care ofone another.
Now, you're not going to loveevery single one of the court
cards.
(12:41):
Probably, if you work with thetarot long enough, you might
learn to really appreciate all16 figures of the courts.
But chances are there are acouple court cards that feel
really uncomfortable or strangeor confusing or like bum you out
when they show up in readings.
And that's fine.
That's being a person.
We're not all going to getalong with every single person
we meet every day forever, andso I think it's really powerful
(13:04):
to consider which court cardsfeel comfortable and which ones
don't, which court cards we seeourselves in and which ones feel
like they might be inopposition to those other cards.
Right, working with these 16figures can really allow us to
learn more about who we are, howwe want to show up, what skills
we bring to the table and alsowhat other kinds of
personalities or levels ofexperience we find the most
(13:27):
comfortable.
And when we've identified whichcards feel the most comfortable
, we can also do the inverseright and really start to think
critically about which cardsfeel uncomfortable and why that
might be, and what kinds ofapproaches might be best suited
to interacting with or engagingwith or even learning from these
other cards.
Community work can beuncomfortable, and so can
(13:48):
working with the minor arcanacourt cards.
We don't always understand whatthey're trying to say, just
like with people, sometimesthese cards require a little bit
of additional attention or careor insight.
They force us to listen in waysthat might be frustrating to us
, and I think part of the reasonthat court cards can be so
challenging for people is thatpeople can be challenging for
(14:10):
people.
We don't always understandwhere someone else is coming
from, and we don't always wantto take the time to really ask
the questions and engage withwhat their history is and why
they're bringing a certain kindof approach or perspective or
opinion to a situation.
We don't always have time to dothat or have the ability to do
that, and while there are lotsof ways to build community, both
(14:32):
in real life, like in physicalspaces, and also in digital
spaces, I really dofundamentally believe that
learning to get more comfortablenavigating the court cards in
and out of your tarot readingscan genuinely help you learn to
understand different personalitytypes and different groups of
people in stronger ways.
It can really build up thosemuscles and allow you to learn
(14:54):
how to sit with discomfortaround personalities that might
be really different than yourown.
Just like working with courtcards, learning to build
community takes a really longtime, and so I really want to
encourage you to be patient withthis process.
Again, I'm going to have twomore episodes for you on court
cards in general, and I willeventually be doing episodes on
every single card in the deck,but in this particular moment in
(15:17):
time, if you find yourselfstruggling to build community,
if you find yourself havingtrouble finding a place where
you feel like you fit, or if youfind yourself struggling to
know what you have to offer orwhat your capacity is for
showing up work with the courtcards, I think it will really
help you learn to offer or whatyour capacity is for showing up
work with the court cards.
I think it will really help youlearn to see yourself in new
lights and also learn to feelmore comfortable engaging with
(15:37):
different kinds of personalities.
I always like to end with apractical tip or trick in these
episodes, and so today's tipcomes straight from the essay I
shared, which again exploresreally using court cards to
learn more about yourself andyour preferences when it comes
to community.
Quote.
Think about the 16 figures ofthe minor arcana courts, if you
like.
(15:58):
Literally grab your tarot deckand pull them all out.
Which ones do you relate mostto connect with, see yourself in
?
Which ones do you feelrepresent you?
Which ones do you love to seethat feel comfortable or
affirming or supportive?
End quote.
I also want to add which cardsdo you respect the most?
Which cards show up or you lookat and you say, wow, I wish I
(16:19):
was like that.
Which cards do you admire?
Quote, and which cards confuseyou, frustrate you or upsetting
to see in readings.
Which cards are harder for youto connect with or understand.
Which figures activate feelingsof discomfort, which ones bum
you out or irritate you or offerpersonality traits that you
don't particularly like andquote.
(16:41):
And again I'll add to that,which cards bug you, which cards
don't make sense to you, whichcards feel like they remind you
of someone in your life or thatyou used to have in your life
that you always struggled toconnect with or understand.
Which cards are hardest for youto empathize with.
Even if you are brand new to thetarot, I really want to
(17:03):
encourage you to take some timeto look at these 16 cards and
think about the vibes thatthey're giving to you, how they
seem, what they feel like ifthey remind you of someone you
know, whether you like thatperson or not, et cetera.
What is your initial reaction tothese cards and what stories
might you tell about them?
What do you already feel likeyou know about these figures.
(17:23):
I also want to encourage you tothink about what might you be
misunderstanding about thesecards.
Which ones feel like friendsinstinctively and which ones
feel like enemies is such astrong word but which cards feel
like they might be people thatare harder for you to engage
with or people that you preferto avoid?
Now, none of this is aboutjudging the court cards or
anything like that, but I dowant to push you, regardless of
(17:47):
your level of experience withthe tarot, to recognize which
personality traits can feel themost challenging for you to
navigate or connect with, and toreally think about how working
with specific court cards thatmight embody those traits can
help you learn to hold space forpersonalities that are
difficult for you in real life.
Really being engaged withcommunity is going to require
you to occasionally workalongside people you don't
(18:09):
really like, and so, if you wantto be someone that is more
engaged with community and notjust be working alongside
friends, I think this is areally powerful way to start to
reclaim your capacity forcommunity and start to flex
those muscles so that you canget more involved in both
physical and digital communitiesfor the long haul.
That's all I have for you todayin this episode of Card Talk,
(18:32):
but I will be back soon with therest of our introductory
episodes to the court cards.
Thank you again for spendingthis time with me and I'll see
you again soon.
Card Talk episodes are alwaysfree for everyone to enjoy, so
if you love what you hear,please consider supporting the
podcast by subscribing,recommending Card Talk to a
friend or two or donating tohelp with production costs.
(18:53):
You can find episodetranscripts.
Learn more about me and join mysignature Tarot Conservatory
membership program through mywebsite, 3amtarotcom.
Thanks for listening and seeyou next time.
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