060 | The Path to Social Work feat. Tonika Boston, LCSW, SIFI - Career Cheat Code

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
And I ended up having an amazing professor there, dr
Stephen Pimper, who really Itook social welfare and policy
with him and it was just likewhere the hell was this my
entire life Like?
And we went through the historyof, like the history of the
United States, the policies thatare in place, how social work

(00:21):
has benefited so many aspects ofour lives place, how social
work has benefited so manyaspects of our lives and how
social work also gives space tostill work on the individual
self in their ownself-actualization.
And to see these components ofwhat I wanted to do that I
didn't have the educationalawareness for when I was a kid.
Seeing how this professortaught this class and with such
passion and vigor and inspiringme like this is where I want to

(00:43):
be at, it made me really cementlike I want to be and it made me
really cement like I want toapply to do the program.

Speaker 2 (00:48):
Welcome to Career Cheat Code.
In this podcast, you'll hearhow everyday people impact the
world through their careers.
Learn about their journey,career hacks and obstacles along
the way.
Whether you're already havingthe impact you want or are
searching for it, this is thepodcast for you.

Speaker 1 (01:02):
All right Hi.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Hey, welcome to the show.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:06):
Appreciate it.
I'm excited to talk about youand your career path today.
Let's you know, let's diveright in, let's tell the world
what it is you do for a living.

Speaker 1 (01:14):
Okay, my name is Tanika Boston.
I am by license, a licensedclinical social worker by
masters of social work andcurrently I have my own private
practice.
I am a mental health clinician,I work as a professor and I
also consult with the city.

Speaker 2 (01:35):
Awesome.
Is this what you wanted to dofor a living when you were
younger?

Speaker 1 (01:37):
Yeah, it was interesting when I was thinking
about this question.
I think it's one of thosethings where you know what you
want to do but you don't knowthe platform you're going to do
it on.
If that makes sense, right.
And so for me, I think I'vealways had this love for like
people and just general, I'vealways had this love for wanting
to help people.
But, if I'm being real with you, I didn't know what that path

(01:58):
looks like.
I feel that throughout my ownjourney in life and even
education, it kind of alignedsocial work, aligned at a very
at a point where I wasn't surewhere I was supposed to be.
But then everything made sensewhen I was exposed to it and
then it kind of clicked and thenI was kind of like love that

(02:20):
first sight when I finally sawit.
And then for me that was a pathfrom deciding how am I going to
actualize wanting to be thisperson in the world and a
profession that made sense to meand aligned with me?

Speaker 2 (02:35):
Got it and you mentioned.
You know it made sense to youonce you were exposed.
When were you actually exposedto it?

Speaker 1 (02:41):
When I was 23.
When were you actually exposedto it?
When I was 23.
It's interesting because you'reyou're technically always
exposed to social work, but likesomething that clicks for you
is when you see it in adifferent light.
And so for me, I was firstexposed to it at 23.
Um, on my very first day workingas a clinical counselor at
planned parenthood, new yorkcity, and on my very first day I

(03:03):
ended up shadowing the socialworkers and not the other
counselors, and that kind ofchanged my whole trajectory of
how I saw social work.
But if I be real with you, Istarted to have a conversation
about social work, like maybe acouple weeks before I started
that job, with another Le Moynealum who was also considering
social work and him reallyeducating me more on it.

(03:25):
So that one time I saw it inperson it felt like this makes
sense.
And now it was like, from thatdecision, how am I going to
manifest that as a career?
And finding out more about it.
And I think that was my firstjourney into really
understanding the field, butunderstanding who I want to be
in the field.

Speaker 2 (03:44):
That makes sense, okay, so you said a lot there,
so let's backtrack and let'stalk about where you actually
grew up.
You ended up growing up seeingand kind of thinking about.
So where were you born andraised?

Speaker 1 (03:55):
So I was born and raised in Brooklyn, new York.
I'm first generation, like thefirst to be born in my family
from Guyana, south America, andI, if I'm being real with you, I
kind of grew up with a mom thatwas like my first advocate in
life.
And I grew up at a timeBrooklyn, new York, crown
Heights at that at a time whereyou're a first generation

(04:18):
American and the only thing youknow to make it in this world is
through education, right.
But then I was also a child whohad a disability.
I had an extremely bad speechdisability that many people
actually don't know about in mylife, and my mom, being really
young herself and not reallyknowing the system for some
reason, found the resources forme to have early intervention.

(04:40):
She took me to the hospital tohave me evaluated and then found
early intervention, so Istarted school at three, for it
specifically.

Speaker 2 (04:48):
Wow, okay.
So it's fascinating, right,because you know us growing up
in different neighborhoods,especially like growing up in
like New York City, right,disability, and that can limit
you, that can harm your, yourmotivation to learn, your desire
to be in an environment, right,or fear of either having people

(05:11):
make fun of it or you just notfeeling confident enough to
really be in that space.
But you mentioned your mom wasyour biggest advocate, right?
So having someone like that,that nurtured that environment
for you and wanted to, like, getyou all of the best, uh,
support early on in services isis, you know, I'm sure, retro,
like retrospectively, likeremarkable for, like, the work

(05:32):
that you're able to do now yeah,I think you know something.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
When she there's an event that, what now?
Especially now in my role as ateacher, that I recognized that.
It was kind of like a pact sheand I made at when I turned six.
But back then, when you had adisability, more than likely
you're replaced in like specialeducation for it right, and a
lot of times people conflateintelligence with disability, as

(05:58):
if if you have a disability,you are not an intelligent
person.
And and I think especially thisis like I went to school in
like Bed-Stuy Brooklyn early 90s.
So I feel like the educationawareness that we have now was
not existent back then and so Iwas placed in like a very
restrictive sped class fromkindergarten and first grade and

(06:21):
I remember my mom.
The teacher told my mother Ithink you should have to
re-evaluate it.
I don't think she belongs, shedoesn't belong here because she
yeah, she doesn't belongintelligent.
Why she doesn't belong in thisclass and my mother at that time
?
Cause she's in the.
My mother is a young mama in hertwenties, and I think when
people look at like a young mom,immigrant, you automatically

(06:43):
tell them what their kid needs,versus what you know as their
advocate, as their parent whatyour kid needs.
And so I remember her battling,having a kind of like having an
argument with this bedcoordinator, special education
coordinator at that school, whowas a white man, and he didn't
believe her when he told, whenshe told him I think you should

(07:04):
reevaluate my kid, and hefinally relented and had me
reevaluated and on that test sheactually told me this this year
, but at that time my testingwas testing above average for my
grade level.
So for them it went from like,okay, we had a very restrictive
spec class and not having to puther in our honors class, my

(07:25):
mother had pulled me out ofschool and put me in another
school after that, but becausewe had moved, but that I think
was a defining moment in regardsto her.
The way she advocated for me tobe re-evaluated because I would
have been classified assomething that I was not, and
seeing that with her I think puta seed within me or to that

(07:46):
I've come to see very present inmy life now as a professional
but also as a person, and eventhe way that I come into a
classroom and teach social work,and so I think that for me was
a very defining moment andseeing how a young person can,
even if you don't know thesystem correctly, that when you

(08:07):
are passionate enough toadvocate for your love in this
case, my mom with me that changecan happen.

Speaker 2 (08:13):
Yeah, were you an only child.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
No, I had a younger brother, but in regards to that,
he was also back in Guyana.

Speaker 2 (08:19):
Got it Okay.
So growing up here, youngmother trying to advocate for
you.
So tell me about what happenswhen you fast forward a little
bit First.
Did you end up?
Did the reassessment lead timeI tested above like in high in
my grave up?

Speaker 1 (08:45):
and so it was able to be able to transfer me out from
a sped class to a honors genclass, which is two different,
completely different teachingstyles, learning styles, all
that.
So I went from one end to theother end and that was an
extremely, extremely hardtransition for me.
I think back on it now.
It's like how do you anticipatea kid from learning from this

(09:08):
style and this pace to now, likeshe, you're giving her this
high pace, high, intense, likevery academically driven class
that she's never been exposed to?
And so that was, I remember,being a very jarring experience.
And then the school that I wastransferred to, my, had
re-evaluated me again notre-evaluated me, but the teacher
for that class has said thatI'm not performing well in that

(09:30):
class and then had metransferred to a lesser class,
like a less academicallyrigorous class, and then I
stayed in that level for likesecond grade, third grade, and
then that teacher had advocatedfor me to be placed back in an
honors class.
And so, yeah, my form, I thinkabout my elementary school
education was always like thisup and down because of a

(09:50):
disability, and I still hadoutside speech therapy too on
the side.
But to have me in a class thataligned to like my intelligence,
was like a process, up until Iwill say, I went on to middle
school.
Did you like school?
I did.
Actually, I love school.

(10:11):
I still love school.
I feel like school for a placewas for me, where I learned and
absorbed everything and I alwaysloved learning.
So, even to this day, I feellike when people say that I'm an
expert, I feel like I'm just aforever student.
That's just always learning saythat I'm an expert.
I feel like I'm just a foreverstudent.
That's just always learning.
And so, and even in this, like,even though I'm teaching, I'm
still learning.
I'm still learning differentways to teach, I'm still

(10:31):
learning different material, I'mstill learning even different
techniques that I didn't know asa student, right?
So I'm always learningsomething new.
So, but it's interesting, yousay that because I have thought
about pursuing my doctorate andI put that dream on hold for the
time being because I'm soexhausted from school.
So it's like it's a two in one.
But I love learning.
I feel like the evolution ofpeople is like you have to learn

(10:54):
in life, and that helps yougrow and evolve.

Speaker 2 (10:57):
Absolutely Okay.
So tell me, tell me about your,tell me about your time in high
school, right?
So fast forward.
After all these ups and downsthrough elementary school, then
you go through middle school,you get to high school.
Are you back in a less rigorousclassroom, Are you still in
honors class and what are youthinking about your future

(11:17):
looking like after graduation?

Speaker 1 (11:19):
So high school was also a very formative experience
.
I went to high school inBed-Stuy Boys and Girls High
School at a time that waspre-gentrification, and so the
high school itself wasn't seenas rigorous, but the programs I
was placed within that highschool were as rigorous as you
can for that school, if thatmakes sense, whatever resources

(11:42):
were available for that school Ihad access to because I was
seen as a high-performingstudent.
The middle school I went to wasa specialized middle school
that you had to take a test for.
So for me I had that experience.
It was kind of yeah, I thinklike Brooklyn Tech, but think
Brooklyn Tech LaGuardia was formiddle school, phillipa Skylar
Middle School, and so for methat was a very form foreign

(12:03):
experience that transitioned meinto having high performing
classes in high school.
But this again, the school Iwent to didn't have the
resources I feel like somepeople would have had, but they
did the best they had they couldwas college always in your
plans during high school?
yeah, I had no choice.
Okay, that was the reason why Isaid I had no choice.

(12:24):
I want to explain that.
I think that when you are on acertain path, right, and my
mother, you know, went on likemy mother was the example.
My mother went on to get hernursing degree.
My mother went on to do hermaster's in nursing.
She's a nurse practitioner now.
Right, my mother set a standardfor me to follow in regards to
being disciplined and it'ssomething she's always instilled

(12:44):
in me.
So for me, it was like I'mgoing to college like and
because of the track and the,the group I was in with all the
honor students.
That was a, that was aautomatic expectation of us.
We're going to college.
We were literally separatedinto like a college track.
So that was the expectationwhen we yeah, that was what.

(13:07):
You're going to college, that'sit.

Speaker 2 (13:09):
Got it Okay, so let's let's get to.
Where'd you end up going toschool?
This is the place where weended up meeting.
Spoiler alert and tell me moreabout what you, what you wanted
to study, what you ended upstudying while you were there.

Speaker 1 (13:23):
So when I started college I went to Le Moyne
College, syracuse, new York.
And when I started college Istarted as a history major and I
wanted to do my PhD in history,originally because I felt at
the time that history can tellus where human development was
going.
And so I started off as ahistory major with a minor in

(13:45):
psychology and another minor ingender women's studies.
To go back to the high schoolthing for a second, I think in
high school I struggled tofigure out what I wanted to do,
because I was such a bright kidthat for me it was like I could
do many things and so it waskind of like I don't really know
what I want to do besides justhelp people.
So I thought at the time,because I loved history so much,

(14:06):
I was so good at it, I shouldthink about maybe going into a
field that would cultivate beingable to be more of an academic
in that.
And then I started up as ahistory major and then by my
junior year realized that I wasnot.
Personally I was not a historymajor.
I had a really great advisorwho was my history advisor, dr

(14:29):
Blazak, that had by my junioryear I had a class with her and
some of my papers she would readand she's like it just sounds
from a very.
It's a good paper but it soundslike very psychological With Dr
Blazak.
Another thing too, to givecontext to LeMoyne history
itself as a field is a verywhite male driven field and so
for me that was also made mefeel very out of the box,

(14:52):
especially with some of theclasses I had.
And there was one class I had,historiography and historical
methods research.
That was a seminar class.
That was just.
I was the only Black woman inthat class and it was like 10 of
us and most of them were whitemen and in that class I was
being taught by a white womanprofessor and in that class in

(15:15):
particular, they would ignore mewhen I would speak up, like
blatantly ignore me, like Iwould contribute, no one would
say anything.
I would give some challenge, noone would say anything, and the
professor was not a goodfacilitator in that racial
conflict.
And I remember I guess Dr Blazakwas my advisor at the time and
I remember going to her about itNot so that I think I need to

(15:37):
drop the no matter of fact justabout my struggles in that class
, in that class and I rememberas this was my first time seeing
what an ally looked like in awhite woman I remember telling
her this about my experience inthat class and I don't know if I
was cut out to be in this fieldand she told me to drop the
class.
She was very upset and she wasvery straight up with me.
So I don't know if you're beingtreated that way because you're

(15:59):
a woman or because you're Blackor because of both, but I need
you to drop the class and takeit with me the next.
And I did, and so I think forme that was like my first
thought Am I supposed to be inthis field?
Because I came to realize thelens of history is about the
victor writing a story, and whenI took it with Dr Blade at the
following year, I reallyrealized I was not a history

(16:21):
major.
I skipped her class for twoweeks with her assignment and
one day she called me into heroffice, sat me down.
I said it's interesting withyou, tamika, that you were in my
class for two weeks, but one ofyour assignments you were one
of the few people who answeredthe question correctly and you
weren't there, and the way youanswer these questions from a
very psychological point of viewand I see that with a lot of
your papers.

(16:41):
So she sent me.
She said I think you need to beevaluated if this is the major
for you.
So she made an appointment forme to go to career services and
had me take a test there andthey told me you should have
never been a history major inthe first place Wow.
They said to me that that wasthe first thing I should have
done.
So they gave me a list.

(17:03):
In hindsight they did listsocial work as a field I kind of
went into.
They list sociology, psychology, they listed education.
They listed a few fields thatwere very people-centered that I
could go into, and so I hadswitched my major from history
to psychology.
And then that's history of myminor and that's what I

(17:24):
graduated with a psychologydegree.

Speaker 2 (17:27):
This was junior year when you switched Wow.
So I hear you.
I I also switched majors,probably twice and then ended up
with like a dual major becauseI still didn't know what I
wanted to do.
Um, so you know, but goingthree years through school and
then pivoting from a, it's apretty drastic, pivot right
history to psychology, likethat's yeah that psychology.

(17:50):
That's a big shift.
Did you find those coursesinherently I don't even want to
say easier, but more like theyresonated with you?

Speaker 1 (17:57):
I did, but I felt something was missing.
And then my final semester,college, I took a sociology
class and everything made sense.
Everything made sense from asociological perspective.
But then I wish my lastsemester I had known that,
because there was a historicalcomponent to sociology that I

(18:18):
had wanted in history, and thenpairing that with psychology, I
didn't realize that there was anactual field that combined all
of that together.
And I didn't discover thatuntil I worked at Planned
Parenthood.

Speaker 2 (18:30):
Got it Okay.
So you graduated, was PlannedParenthood your first job out of
college?

Speaker 1 (18:37):
My first job out of college.
So I didn't find a job rightaway.
And so my first job out ofcollege and I did get one was
with the College of Mount StVincent and I was an admissions
rep there.
And then, because I stillwanted to work in, I still
wanted to work with like HEOP,EOP, I wanted to work with like
maybe me based programs inhigher ed, and so I ended up

(18:57):
getting a job there, ended updoing a lot of like admissions,
admissions work, but then it'slike this is not where I want to
be, and then that was a shortterm contract and then I left
and like a couple months afterthat's when I started working at
Planned Parenthood.
For those that don't know whatis HEOP and EOP so HEOP, for
those that don't know, higherEducation Opportunity Program

(19:17):
and Educational OpportunityProgram.
Eop is specifically withstate-based institutions like
Stony Brook University ofBinghamton, new Albany, and
Higher Education OpportunityPrograms are specific to private
institutions.
So that could be like Le Moyneright.
Le Moyne right, are you a HOP?

Speaker 2 (19:35):
I am.
I am a very proud HOP student,HOP graduate.

Speaker 1 (19:38):
See, look at that.
This is the investment of HOPright.
Hop gives equity, provides anequitable space for students who
come from the underprepared,the underprivileged, the
under-resourced schools thatdidn't have the same preparation
as someone who would come in ona regular admission right, and
more so like, especially in likepredominantly white

(20:00):
institutions.
And so HOP gives an equitableleg up in regards to access to
institutions that would not havebeen applicable according to
the resources that student hadto be successful in their
secondary education.
And so HOP.
I, when I was at Lone Lion, Idid work with HOP.

(20:22):
I was not an HOP student, I wasa regular admissions student,
but I loved HOP as a program.
Many of my friends were in HOPand you know, and I felt like
that was something that seemedto align in regards to being a
kid from Brooklyn, seeing how alot of the people who I knew
were bright didn't have the samesupport as me because I had a
mom, because I had a family thatwere, I had teachers who were

(20:44):
on my neck all the time,compared to people who I knew
were so bright but didn't havethe same resources right and we.
And that's a privilege,unfortunately.
That's a privilege to have whenyou when it comes to Black and
Brown youth, when that supportsystem at home doesn't keep you
on track, and so I always foundHOP to be such an accountable
program.

(21:04):
When it came to like thatself-fulfilling prophecy I'm not
going to be good enough, orlike I don't feel like I could
like be successful here and youhave the, you have.
I would call like the, the, theteam, and that is that team and
that backing, it's like no,we're going to keep you going
until the end, right, and Ithink, like those programs
really planted a seed for theneed for equity and inclusion

(21:29):
within, like, amongst us, for usin this society yeah, and
that's.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
You know, that team is both the professional staff
that is working there, but alsothe cohort of students.
They just kind of band togetherand look out for each other and
push each other, wake eachother up for classes, make sure
that they go to the library, andall the and all the things.
So you know, I definitelyappreciated my, my time atOP.
Okay, so tell me about PlannedParenthood.
When you got there, what wasyour role there?
What were you trying to do?

Speaker 1 (21:55):
So Planned Parenthood came from a LeMoyne Connect and
a LeMoyne Connect that I usedto tutor, whose mom had a
position there, and so they werelooking for a new counselor and
I at the time, like someoneanother person from LeLoyne had,
amanda, had connected me tothat person and then that person

(22:15):
then hooked me up with, likeconnected me to their mom, and
then that was when the wholeinterviewing process happened.
I got hired my very first day.
I will kid you not, I guess Ialways remember the April 19th,
2011 is when I started, and thatis when I observed my first
clinical session from, like, avery therapeutic point of view,
from um, my supervisor at thetime, one of my supervisors at

(22:35):
the time and to see that this iswhat social work did in terms
of taking someone's pain andgrief and not being able to know
, like not being able to know adecision to make for their lives
and the grief with that, withthat heaviness, and seeing how
this person helped transitionthem from such a grief to a
place of acceptance andunderstanding.
I found that to be so powerfuland it felt like it clicked.

(22:59):
This is where you're supposedto be.
And then, as I continued toobserve more social workers and
eventually my long-termsupervisor, slash mentor Vilma.
They inspired me to want toconsider social work and Vilma
was very instrumental in gettingme into social work school.

Speaker 2 (23:18):
That's awesome, okay, so what were those kind of
first steps that led you to thatLike, how did you actually like
it's one thing to learn aboutsocial work and feel like you
want to do something in thespace.
It's another thing to actuallylike get yourself on track to do
that.
So how'd you do that?

Speaker 1 (23:32):
so when I started working on Planned Parenthood,
like the clinical program I wasworking in, had like social work
interns and had people comingin and so I was always working
with them and I was alwaystraining them already.
And so when Vilma and I weretalking about me considering
social work as a career pathbecause a lot of my work was
counseling, giving differenttypes of counseling options

(23:53):
counseling, abortion counseling,crisis counseling but I was
crisis counseling.
So Vilma, who trained me, whattime, like you have, you're
really good at this and I thinkyou should consider social work.
And she, the first step shetold me to do was I don't think
you should take it as a do notapply for programs.
Yet she said takenon-matriculated classes first,

(24:15):
because studying social work andworking in social work are two
different things, and sostudying social work as a
science is vastly different thanworking in the field of social
work.
And she said you'll understandwhat you're actually in school,
why.
Why we're very protective ofsaying when someone says they're
a social worker and they're not, because there's so much that
goes into actually studying thefield of social work compared to

(24:35):
just working in a subsection ofthat actual field.
And so Vilma encouraged me to.
I ended up doing two classes atHunter Silverman School of
Social Work and I ended uphaving an amazing professor
there, dr stephen compare, whoreally I took social welfare and

(24:55):
policy with him and it was justlike where the hell was this my
entire life like?
And we went through the historyof, like the history of the
united states, the policies thatare place, how social work has
benefited so many aspects of ourlives and how social work also
gives space to still work on theindividual self in their own

(25:18):
self-actualization, and to seethese components of what I
wanted to do that I didn't havethe educational awareness for it
when I was a kid.
Seeing how this professortaught this class and with such
a passion and vigor andinspiring me like this is where
I want to be, and it made mereally cement like I want to
apply to do the program for um,yeah, to do the full program got

(25:38):
it and isn't it great when youcan have some guidance and some
folks that you can look to thatcan help outline what things
could look like right?

Speaker 2 (25:47):
I remember when I was younger you know very much
talking to people inphilanthropy and just, first of
all, the exposure that that's afield that resonated with me,
and then two understanding kindof what are some of the steps
that you can do to get there andlike, similarly with you right,
to be able to work with peoplethat can not only make their
careers make sense to you, thenhave you see yourself in that

(26:09):
space and then say, okay, here'show we can actually implement
some steps.
So you know, I think theimportance of whether formally
or informal mentors that canreally help us shape our career
paths is super important.
So, yeah, so tell me about kindof what, where was the program
that you actually ended up goinginto full-time and how long did
that take?
All the things about theprogram.

Speaker 1 (26:28):
So I ended up going to NYU.
The School of Social Work Shoutout to NYU.
I mean, I teach at anotherschool, but NYU is always going
to be for me, home when it comesto that.
I ended up getting into NYU'sprogram, and the program, the
track I ended up doing, was areduced residency program
Because I was already working insocial work.

(26:50):
It's an option for those whoare already in the field, where,
instead of taking two fieldplacements, or two clinical
placements you can only do.
You can do one.
However, with the program it'sthree years instead of two years
to accommodate for your workschedule, and so my at the time
Planned Parenthood had to reallysign off on that on their end,
to say that they would be ableto support me through this

(27:12):
process.
And in my final year, which wasmy third year, they were
supposed to then give me adifferent role, to learn a
different skill set, which didnot happen.
Like my third year came andthey were like, yeah, so we
can't think of anything, andthere was a lot of restructuring
at the time.
So I always want to say that,that there was a lot going on.

(27:35):
So I think that I flew underthe radar and by the time my
third year came up, it was like,oh, we don't know what to do
with you, and so for me it camedown to like, do I stay at this
job or do I take the L andfinish my third year?
Because I worked really hard toget to this point, and so I left
Planned Parenthood and what onething I will say that NYU did

(27:55):
for me which was a it's a rareoccurrence is that they found me
a field placement that paid meand I ended up having, but it
was a field placement that hadother components to it and it
was it was through visiting theservice of New York at that time
where I was in a pilot programof working in an
interdisciplinary team with anurse practitioner and a nurse

(28:17):
practitioner student from thenursing school at the university
and we would kind of liketriage together and going into
homes to triage clients togetherme from the social work,
clinical aspect and them frommore so of like a physiological
aspect and medication management.
And so we did that in Harlem, wedid that in Washington Heights,

(28:38):
we did that in some parts oflike Midtown, which was a very
informative experience.
But because it was a pilotprogram, the initiative was that
they'll give us like money forit.
So shout out to NYU for that,because it did help, especially
having to transition fromworking a full-time job to like
having to be a student full-timeand I had to be on my placement
an additional day for four daysa week instead of three days a

(28:59):
week.
So it was just yeah, it was ahuge transition in terms of like
being a full-time student mythird year, I was going to say
for those who are considering asocial work school and
considering a reduced residencyprogram.
Make sure your job does notremain when it comes to your
last year of having to switchyour role, because it leaves you
in a sticky situation to nowhave to look for something else.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
And that's exactly you know.
I was just going to say that Iappreciate you sharing that
right, because I'm sure folksthat are switching into this
field or just getting into thisfield may not know that that's
something that happens, right.
But you sharing from yourexperience and now folks can
look out for things in thefuture and try to secure as much
of that commitment as possible.
It's helpful, helpful insight.

(29:42):
It's a career cheat code, onemay say.

Speaker 1 (29:44):
Yeah, it is a career.
Cheat code.

Speaker 2 (29:46):
So tell me more.
So tell me what happens onceyou actually have your placement
.
You're doing your work and Ireally also, you know, I commend
.
I had to do it too, but likethe folks that go to school and
work at the same time, like thatis no joke and balancing that
is a lot.
Sometimes it is definitelyworthwhile and sometimes, in my

(30:07):
case, it's the only option,right Like I wasn't going to not
work, to go to school.
So it's definitely somethingthat makes a lot of sense.
But you know, first we'd loveto hear once you finish the
program, do you?
Or since you finish the program, do you feel like you've gotten
what you wanted out of it?

Speaker 1 (30:24):
Yeah.
So the thing here's the thingwith with, with, with each
school, each social work schoolhas a different concentration.
I knew going to NYU was a veryclinical concentration and I
think even in this aspect of mycareer I don't think anyone
should not be getting a clinicalperspective on things, which
means having an ability to seethings from a very microscopic

(30:45):
view.
And I think social work has somany different facets that,
depending on the school you goto, some people like Hunter is
more very community-basedadvocacy work right, and so for
me, being at the position I'm innow, I felt like NYU prepared
me a lot when it came to likereally understanding how the
micro affects the macro and howthe macro affects the micro and

(31:10):
everything else in between.
And, if I'm real with you, Ireally loved my program, like I
really I think the program has.
I've seen the program has growna lot in terms of more
diversity, in terms of faculty,but I loved it when I was there
and I felt that it was verysmall classes and I felt like my
professors were very hands-onwith us, I don't know, and I
think it gave me a level ofself-assurance with the level of

(31:32):
rigor that I had to.
Still, this program still had alevel of vigor in regards to
even passing a clinical exam,and so that education still was
very present when it came totaking my clinical exam six
years later.
So I will say that when it cameto my education at NYU, it was
very I mean in debt, but it wasvery well worth it.

Speaker 2 (31:52):
Six years.
Why does this program?
Why did that take so long?
Is that typical Six yearsbefore your clinical exams?

Speaker 1 (31:59):
So when you graduate, whether you're doing a two-year
program or three-year programin social work, we have two
different licensures.
When we first graduate, we areeligible to take our LMSW, which
stands for the Licensed Masterof Social Work test, right?
I think the best way to equateit is to like a residency

(32:19):
license, right, you're acting asa resident, but you're still
learning under what would beconsidered like attending With
your LMSW.
I feel like most jobs now wantyou to have your LMSW, even if
it's not a clinical role butyour LMSW.
If you do decide to do aclinical track or do arts, you
want to become a therapist?
Right, you would need your LCSWto practice independently,
which is equivalent to a PhD inpsychology, and it's on that,

(32:54):
years of clinical supervision.
And for social workersspecifically, the only people
who can sign off on thoseclinical hours are a
psychologist, a psychiatrist oranother LCSW.
Those are the only threedisciplines that can sign off on
someone getting those hours,and so you would think getting

(33:14):
those hours are enough, but it'snot.
Once you have matched thosehours, then you have to send it
into your respective states,like in this case, new York
State.
New York State goes through allthis paperwork and another
component of that is that youhave to literally track your
hours and have people sign offon it.
So anytime you leave a job,your supervisor should be
signing off on those hours.

(33:34):
The gag is is that once yousubmit those hours, new York
State has to now review theentire application.
For me, the first time that Iapplied to take my LCSW, new
York State did not tell me,until I called them, that I was
missing four months, even thoughit was like five years of work
and I had, like I think I hadlike 400, over 400 plus more

(33:56):
clinical hours In addition tothe ones that they wanted
already.
I didn't have four months ofclinical supervision and it was.
What sucked at that time wasthat my LMSW was expiring and I
would have been able to take theLCSW and not have to pay for it
to be renewed Because I stillneed the LMSW.
I still have to renew that foranother four months of clinical
supervision, to then resubmitthe paperwork to then have them

(34:19):
say yes, you can now take a test, the test.
So that's the first half.
Um, like the lmsw, where you dohave to take a test, a licensing
test, the lcsw is more in depthin terms of, like more clinical
questions around diagnosing,around um, direct practice work.
And so they it's.

(34:40):
It's.
It's still same format as thelmsw 175 questions, four hours,
you got no breaks.
They give you a little surveyand they tell you on the spot if
you pass the test or not.
It is a very hard test to pass,I will say that.
But I did pass it, though on myfirst go.
But I will say that it's a veryhard test to pass, especially
the more the further you areaway from school, because what

(35:03):
happens with people who take thetest is that they take the test
according to their specialty intheir field and not as the
discipline of social work, andthat's how they study when they
go into taking the test.
With a test, you have to go inas a discipline of social work
and know what the questions areasking you versus what you think
your knowledge is based on,what your experience in the
field is.

Speaker 2 (35:22):
That makes sense.
That's a big differentiatingfactor too.
So I appreciate you kind ofmaking that distinction and
walking us through the processof that Right Like this is not
my field.
So I appreciate you kind ofmaking that distinction and
walking us through the processof that right Like this is not
my field, so I wouldn't evenknow about the intricacies of
the process.
So I'm sure this is helpful forpeople listening and
considering this field.
You know it is a process, butyou know here we are today.
Right, you're a leader in yourfield and this has been a while

(35:46):
in the making of you getting tothis point.
But, like this, this is thekind of one of the prerequisites
to getting into the field, tothen being able to like shine in
your field.
Um, so you know it's a process,but, um, but it it makes sense
at the end I.

Speaker 1 (36:02):
I also want to add this to the lcsw.
You don't need your lcsw tocontinue to practice as in the
field, but I want to give theweight of what the ltsw means
because I think there is amisunderstanding that people
don't make money in social work,right, and when you graduate
with your, when you graduateyour master's and you apply,

(36:23):
let's say the earliest you cantake your lmsw is july, because
they still your degree stillneeds to be conferred, even you
submit everything else else andby the end of may the state
won't approve it until maybejuly earliest.
I remember they also have aninflux of all these applications
at once, so maybe august if youhear back from the state.
The thing with the lmsw is thatwhen you start out they'll give

(36:46):
you like most employers willgive you, like what they think
and even though, like the costwhen I started out I mean my
first job was 45k, 45k and mydegree cost me more than 45k but
I will say that, even thoughit's 45k, that experience
catapulted me into in otherparts of my career because of

(37:07):
the level of work they had me todo, but that 45k was still high
robbery for the level of workthey had me do, and I think it's
different now because COVID Ithink this has been a very has
shed a limelight on social workand the importance of social
work and the importance of likemental health and I think, like
the students now, or thisgeneration of students, have

(37:27):
much more leveraging power tonegotiate their salaries, to be
able to speak up for more of thethings that they want.
I don't think we had theliberty to do that back then,
but given how much COVID itselfhighlighted the need for social
work and how important it is tohave these things in place,
especially in New York City, Ithink there has been more of a

(37:48):
leveraging in the demand forhigher wages and fairer
conditions in social work.
And these groups of students,they're on some, they're really,
they are very passionate whenit comes to advocacy.
I will say that, especiallywhen it comes to being able to
express what they feel isinjustice happening to them.

(38:08):
But when you start out, youwon't make a lot of money with
your LMSW.
And if you do make a lot ofmoney with your LMSW, it's more
than likely it's because youalready came with a background
of experience before.
So if you were a lawyer before,if you were another profession
before and you had anothermaster's before.
That could bump your salary up,but starting out, no, you're
not going to get paid as much asyou think you are.

(38:30):
But when you get your C, yourLCSW, that is the real.
That is the real like.
I feel it's a real liberator,especially for Black and Brown
clinicians, where it's like youhave more leveraging power.
You can ask for more money, youcan go into private practice if
you want to.
You can go into do.

(38:51):
I think the LCSW holds theweight of you can be independent
if you choose, and I think thatis why it's a lot more rigorous
to get, because of the power itholds, especially when it comes
to deciding a more decidingfactor and where you want your
career to go.

Speaker 2 (38:59):
Wow, that's awesome.
So for folks that don't know,right, because you mentioned you
can make some money in socialwork.
You know your first job was45,000, but can you give folks a
range of how much you canactually grow into making um in
this field, especially afterhaving your c?

Speaker 1 (39:15):
so your c can give you the leveraging power of
going from, say, if you make 75kto making 100k right there.
It can give you at mostpositions a huge jump in salary.
I'm not saying all jobs that,but most jobs will give you a
huge bump in a salary when theysee you have your clinical
license because of the way itrepresents and, again, like your

(39:37):
LCSW, as a intending you can interms of opening a private
practice.
You can independently diagnosesomeone, you can independently
give treatments right To peopleon your own without needing a
supervisor over you, right.
But with your LMSW you cannotdo that because of the need to
have a supervising clinician tosign off on your work.

Speaker 2 (39:58):
Got it.
Okay.
That makes a lot of sense.
I appreciate that.
Tell me about.
How do you then grow in yourfield, right?
Because how do you grow both inyour job, professionally, but
also in the field as a knownperson that is doing good work,
right?
You have developed a brand ofsomeone that is a force in your

(40:19):
field.
How do folks follow in thosefootsteps and tell people about
that brand?

Speaker 1 (40:28):
Because this brand, this brand Okay, I'm going to
say this the LMSW to the LCSW,those two points of time.
I oftentimes say it's apledging process.
You have to be very committed,especially if you want that.
You have to be very committedto, like A, what do you want to
develop your practice to be?
I have, technically, threespecialties in social work.

(40:48):
I have forensic social workbackground with what I graduated
NYU with.
I have a clinical background,clearly, and I worked in schools
for like eight years.
So I have three specialtiesspecifically.
And even with forensic socialwork, a lot of my consulting
work is with the Department ofProbation, and so the best thing
I can tell people when theystart with the LMHW, I'm going

(41:09):
to say specifically, I'm goingto give this advice from Black
and Brown people like graduatingand coming into this field.
A lot of times what we tend todo is we tend to look at jobs
with high paying salariesbecause clearly we are probably
in more debt.
We don't got it like that.
We need the money, right, I'mgonna keep it real and a lot of
times those higher paying jobsoftentimes have like have a

(41:31):
ceiling where you cannot learnanything else beyond a certain
scope, right when there that is.
And you can think about that,even in like, like, maybe
hospital social work, where allyou're doing is discharging,
discharging, discharging.
Yes, you're learning certainskills, but you are not going
beyond those skills, andhospital social work will pay
you a lot more right.
And so here's the thing where Itell people now, when you

(41:55):
graduate, be intentional aboutwhere you want your direction,
even if you don't have a setgoal of where you want your
direction to be, how are youbuilding that brand?
Or how are you buildingyourself to become an expert,
right?
And so if, for instance, if youwant to do to clinical work,

(42:15):
then it's like being intentionalon taking jobs that are going
to sharpen those clinical skills.
My first job even though it paidme 45k ready, and it was like a
struggle with that job, butthat was money, I will tell you
I, my first job, required me tobuild a mental health clinic
from scratch in a communityschool in the Bronx, south Bronx

(42:37):
, where ain't nobody trying togo to dental therapy, ain't
nobody trying to do this, it's afamily school.
And so for me, what I had tonow do hit the ground running.
I had to learn marketing onlike marketing.
I had to learn destigmatizingsocial work or not even social
work at this point,destigmatizing therapy.
I had to learn schoolengagement.
I had to learn destigmatizingsocial work or not even social

(42:58):
work at this point,destigmatizing therapy.
I had to learn schoolengagement.
I had to learn parentengagement.
I had to learn what it meant tobe a collaborator, an advocate,
and I had to also learn to bein real time a clinician, at the
same time doing my own billing.
Doing this, I had to learn somuch, literally hitting the
ground running and also havingto build my own caseload right.

(43:19):
So no one was giving me like Ihad a set case.
No, I had to now sell this age,this clinic in the school as a
reason to enroll your child init.
And this is high school.
So, like some of these studentsare over age, like 19, 20, 21.
And also branding in a way thatthis is a solution to why your

(43:40):
kid may need the additionalsupport to graduate on time or
to manage their anger or tomanage anxiety.
I always had to market it in away that was solution focused
and not because of the stigma ofmy child, is crazy.
And so for two years, years, Idid that and had to balance all
that stuff and also balancerelationships.

(44:01):
And even at the end of that jobI had to end up taking on a
role managing, like this hugework, of this huge event for the
school.
Uh, because the person, becausebecause other tensions
happening with the person whowas supposed to do it and and
the principal at the time, so Ihad to step in to do that.
And by the time I left thatposition, I came to recognize

(44:26):
how valuable that those twoyears made me in terms of where
I would go to my next job.
Because two years of doing allof this like administrative work
, marketing work, mental healthwork, de-stigmatizing work,
advocacy work right, it's like Iwas going through the gauntlet.
I won't say I wasn't, but I hadway more experience than

(44:49):
someone who stayed and maybedoing a hospital-based job or
someone who was just doing casemanagement or doing ACS stuff
right, those things come withhigher pay, but in terms of the
level of skillset that you learn, it's only limited based off of
that field.
Right, but because I had to doso much by juggling all these
things, I think that laid astronger foundation for me now

(45:12):
to be able to juggle multiplejobs at the same time.
And so for me, my next able tojuggle multiple jobs at the same
time and so for me, my next jobafter I left that was as a
social work director, because Ihad so much.
You know, I didn't have the LCS, the LCSW like they wanted.
I had all the skill set that itwas like why would we not hire
you?
Especially the skill set andthe knowledge of how to engage,

(45:32):
especially especially to engageyoung people to come to therapy.
In high school, yeah, I had tolike switch it up, like I
couldn't like the theories thatwas taught to me at NYU could
not be applicable.
In the same way, I had to learnto translate that down.
I had to learn to explainthings in a way that a
10-year-old would understand it.
I think a lot of times when wego to social work school, we
know these big words and we knowthese theories and we know

(45:54):
these things, but when you haveto explain it to a 10 year old,
if you can't explain it, youdon't understand it.
So I had to really know how tolike break things down in a way
that makes sense to people andengage people really quickly.
In regards to in regards toengaging in therapy or engaging
the idea of therapy, and so Ithat those skillsets have become

(46:16):
so transferable throughout mycareer that even as a professor
now at Columbia boy, I thinkit's what I've been told I'm
very disarming, but I think Ideveloped that skillset because
of where I started.
So I always tell especiallyyoung social workers when you
start out and think about eachjob as in a continued investment

(46:37):
in your education in this field, and think of each job as
something that's adding to yourbrand right, each job that you
get, even if it may be a similarjobs, what in this space can
you learn that you didn't learnhere?
Everything's a learningexperience and a learning
opportunity if you're open to it, even if you think you know it
Because I'm going to be honest,nobody knows anything and we're

(46:59):
all still John Snow, we knownothing.
So be open to learningsomething new, as it helps you
grow and evolve into a moreeffective helper.
And I don't think a lot of,especially with black and brown
students who go into social andgraduate and look for these more
high-paying jobs.
They look for those that oh I,okay, it doesn't help, but then
they're stuck there for four orfive years and they want their

(47:21):
seat, but it's like you haven'taccumulated the hours, you
haven't accumulated these otherthings that are going to make
you eligible for that, becauseyou stayed in a job that, yes,
it had more benefits, but itdidn't have more but those
benefits and that safety didn'tgive you the risk and a bigger
reward from that.
And so I think for us, I alwaysencourage to lean into the
discomfort of the unknown andtrust yourself that you have the

(47:46):
talent, you have the tenacity,you have the skill set, you have
the mindset, and all you needto do is develop the discipline
and commitment to stick it outRight.
All you need to do is developthe discipline and commitment to
stick it out Right, because thebigger reward comes.
I always say the bigger rewardcomes at a faster rate when you
are strategic and what jobs youtake.
And so for me, from that time,from that first, from my first

(48:06):
job, to where I ended up gettingmy seat, that was six years,
but between those six years I,by the time I got my seat, the
seat was just a cherry on top.
I'll be real with you.
The seat was like oh, now here'sthe extra weight.
But my resume is almost fourpages at this point, and it was

(48:28):
so many different experiences,because one of the best pieces
of advice that I got fromanother Puerto Rican clinician
was that the difference betweenwhite clinicians and Black and
brown clinicians is that whiteclinicians are willing to take
the risk and that is why theygrow much faster in this field
and it's why they get theleadership positions much faster
.
This is why they get into thesespaces much faster, because they
are willing to take the riskand take that pay cut and

(48:49):
develop the skill set anddevelop what they need and then,
by the time they apply for thatjob, in two years, where
they're at, may be director ofthis and then, by the time they
apply for that job, in two years, where they're at, may be
director of this Because theytook the time to build that
skill set, may take the hit, butthat reward was bigger than a
lot of us who take the saferoute because it makes sense for
us, because we do need thatsafety and don't take the risk
on the investment in ourselves.

Speaker 2 (49:09):
That's great.
That's super valuableinformation and a lot of gems
that were laid out throughoutthat portion.
You know, I think it'simportant to take the risk.
I think it's fascinating thateven earlier on in your career
you recognize the value ofthings outside of a paycheck
right.
There is a learning componentto doing a bunch of things for a

(49:30):
couple of years that you canthen leverage at another point.
But just doing the work andexposing yourself to those
experiences made you inherentlymore valuable.
So I appreciate that.
At what point did you want toactually become a professor?

Speaker 1 (49:43):
So I really was thinking about this question and
, if I'll be real with you, Iwanted to be a professor my
entire life, but then I forgotthe dream and even when I went
to college, it was still to be ahistory professor.
But then, somewhere along theway, I think it was still to be
a history professor, but thensomewhere along the way, I think
it was a thing that I just putso distant in the future when I
was this, like older, more oflike this deep stage and like

(50:06):
and for me, I didn't think.
I think the first time I reallyI really thought about wanting
to be teach was four years, 2024.
So when I left my last job, andat that time, with that last
job, it was just this is whereyou have to know your worth in
social work and you have to knowhow people.
I learned in that last job isthat people see your worth.

(50:28):
They just treat you accordingto how you allow them to treat
your worth.
And I had made the decision toleave that last job because I
was being so overworked that,because of the need that was
there within this agency toorganize this school system,
they didn't take my mentalhealth seriously.
They didn't take me in terms ofmy well-being seriously, and

(50:50):
that was when, for me, that Ihad to look at my worth and
recognize if I'm able to balanceall these things and teach
people and coach people, I candefinitely teach, and I've been
told that by interns before thatyou should consider teaching,
you should go into teaching.
And so my first actually myfirst real experience of
teaching was with through afriend who was an adjunct at

(51:11):
Brooklyn College and he alsotaught at BMCC, and so this is
around the time I had left my, Ihad left my job as a social
work director before Itransitioned to work, to work in
schools more full-time.
He brought me into his class toteach something around.
I'm trying to remember what itwas it was on the black and
brown experience in schools, itwas something around that extent

(51:33):
and so he came in as a guestlecturer and he had such amazing
feedback from his class that hebrought me to another class at
Brooklyn College and I think wewere talking something political
in regards to the Afrikanmovement and just things we were
talking about in this class,and he had also gotten good
feedback from my class.
I started to have these momentswith him where he would bring

(51:55):
me to his classes for guestlectures or to even observe, and
it would create this biggerdialogue and it's ironing me out
because he's at Columbia now atTeachers College doing his PhD.
So it was always a full circlemoment where I always go back
and tell him like you know, youwere the first introduction into
actually considering myself toteach in higher ed, and so that

(52:15):
happened around 2019.
That so a lot of thingshappened in that year, but, like
2019 was when my firstexperience of teaching teaching
happened in schools.
But then I also had presented atColumbia School of Social Work
the after school social workconference twice that that in

(52:36):
the same event.
So I had presented aroundspoken word and then then just
how we could use spoken word asa platform for students to
discuss injustices, and then Iended up doing an entire seminar
on racial trauma in educationalsettings and so that the that
exposure to also made me see howI may have a talent to teach.

(53:00):
So when I kind of left my lastjob in 2022, it was like I
really should consider goinginto teaching.
However, getting into teachingis a hard thing, but that was my
first.
I want to get into teaching wasin 2022.

Speaker 2 (53:13):
So how does one actually get into teaching, or
how did you get into teaching?
It goes from you have the seedplanted three years earlier, so
then you have to actually makethe thing happen.
How did you do it?

Speaker 1 (53:22):
So this is where I took a big risk.
By the time I left my last job,I was a network clinician for a
charter school in Brooklyn, andthat job had morphed into so
many different things that Itold you like I was being, at
this point, exploited, and so Idecided to leave.
At that time I had just startedmy own private practice,

(53:42):
virtually, and so I had startedFebruary.
I had left June, so I had, atthat time, had already started
this thing that was my own, myown practice, and that gave me
the courage to leave my own, myown practice, and that gave me
the courage to leave.
And then I said, well, if I'mgoing to do this, then I should

(54:03):
just figure out to go intoteaching.
However, getting to teachingand applying for jobs with
teaching is a much harder thing,even though I had technically
taught interns in our respectivefield placements where they
were at in my jobs, and I had aSIFI.
I'll explain it.
The SIFI, real quick, issupervision and field

(54:25):
instruction, which means if youhave ever taught an intern, you
can take that certificationclass with the school that
intern comes from.
So if an intern came fromColumbia, the social worker can
take the classes of Columbia andget that certification for free
, but you need an intern workingunder you to get that.
I did mine at Fordham.
So for me at that time gettinginto school was hard.

(54:46):
Even NYU was like I see yourresume, so we'll get back to you
Right?
And so I at the time hadstarted consulting and I had
started consulting with thedepartment of probation and I
what I was doing in myconsulting with the department
of probation is I was designingtrainings, designing and
facilitating trainings, andthese trainings are like four
hours and I was doing it with aprogram called credible

(55:07):
messengers, which go into the,which go into neighborhoods with
um as a form of violenceprevention and so especially
doing a lot of like crisis workwith like a lot of violence
prevention and so especiallydoing a lot of like crisis work
with like a lot of young people.
One of the administrators forthe trainings is a Columbia
professor, and so what ended uphappening was that I was so good

(55:28):
at these trainings anddesigning them and people being
so engaged with them that oneand he sometimes he will sit in
and he would engage to himselfwhoever and we were talking and
he was saying to me theconversation he ended up having
was I sometimes look at yourwork, tanika, and I'm like how
can I incorporate a lot of thesethings into my own lessons?
And this is how theconversation started and I said

(55:50):
to him like oh, he's oh, so whatdo you mean?
He said yeah, like when I teach, I I'm like you the way you are
able to like design this, likedesign this, this training.
It's like even with me I'mlooking at this, like how can I
do this for my own stuff?
And so I said I said oh, so youteach.
He's like yeah, he said heteaches at columbia.
So okay, and he asked me wheredo I teach?
And I said I don't teach.

(56:13):
I don't teach yet like, I'vebeen trying, I've been applying
and ironically, at that time Iwas also applying for my
doctorate in social work, whichI ended up missing the deadline
for the application to besomething like six hours.
So that was like a whole otherbus by itself.
So I've been telling you howthings align.
He said to me like oh, youdon't teach.

(56:33):
I was like, no, I think it's.
You know, I've been applying,but I haven't heard back.
And so he said, oh, can you giveme your resume please?
And I was like you know peopletalk, so people talk stuff.
And he's also like he'sFilipino.
So it's like I also want to putyou like.
This is like why is it soimportant for social workers of
color to network right, and younever know who's watching you.

(56:55):
And so he was like can you giveme your resume?
So I was like, okay, you know,I didn't really take it
seriously until he emailed meabout it and he said can you
pass me, send me your resume?
Am I being really right?
I wasn't thinking aboutColumbia to apply to like to
even teach there.
So it's like I said, okay, Ipassed along my resume.
This was like April of lastyear and I didn't hear back.

(57:16):
So it was like, okay, theyprobably look at this resume too
and they're thinking in theirminds like, oh, she doesn't have
enough teaching experience.
So I left it alone.
And then I got an email while Iwas in Thailand for a meeting
and it was from my boss, who's adean for the adjuncts, and like
but when I read the email myboss, who's a dean for the

(57:38):
adjuncts, but when I read theemail, I'll be real with you
when I read the email I was likeyou get a feeling like, okay,
this is aligning, something ishappening.
And so I emailed her back andtold her I would be back in
Thailand.
I came back from Thailand June11th and had the interview June.
Oh sorry, june 12th I had the.
I came back from Thailand June11th.
I had to interview June ohsorry, june 12th.

(57:59):
I had to interview June 13thand I presented one of my
workshops, one of my part, myslides for my workshops.
We had a conversation.
She asked me my thoughts onColumbia and then she thought I
would be a really good fit andthen she offered me the one
class I actually wanted to teach.
It's funny how things come fullcircle because it was on like

(58:19):
it's decolonization of socialwork through foundations of
social work.
It's a very anti.
It's the.
The focus is on anti-Blackracism in particular and
decolonizing the lens of socialwork and pretty much teaching it
from a lens.
Social work the big, the bigbad wolf of our country is
slavery and everything comesinto slavery, everything comes

(58:41):
back down to slavery and it'slike having to now teach people
kind of like break their entirelens of what they think social
work is and pretty much buildthem back up, and so it's a very
hard class to teach people,especially around decolonizing.
You talk about anti-Black racism, you're talking about all these
things, you're talking aboutgenocide.
Like, yeah, it was.

(59:02):
It's not everybody could teachthat class, and so when she
offered it to me, I had thatclass at NYU.
But Columbia didn't have theclass of 2017.
I had a class back in 2012, sothat should also tell you what
Columbia's trajectory was.
So when I was offered thatclass, I was like, yes, I'm
going to teach that class.
And so that is how Columbiahappened.
You never know who's watchingyou.

(59:23):
You never know who's watchingyou.
You never know who you'reimpressing.
You never.
And one thing I will say is youalways got to show up as
yourself.
Showing up as yourself in thisfield will get you a lot more
notice compared to how you thinkpeople should perceive you in
this field wow, I love that.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
Um, I'm very big on that.
The same rat you get here, it'sthe same rat you get in every
other room, so I love that.
Okay, what is your favoritepart of your job?

Speaker 1 (59:47):
I think for me, seeing change, seeing how,
seeing how someone can, theprocess of change, when you
observe, it is a very beautifulthing.
But when someone's goingthrough the process of change,
when you observe, it is a verybeautiful thing, but when
someone's going through theprocess of change is a very
harrowing thing.
And being able to kind of guidepeople through those changes,
whether as a therapist or evenas a consultant, in the way

(01:00:08):
people in trainings, but as aprofessor, I think seeing how
people their lens change andreading their work and being
able to see that in real time,how you show up and how you
teach and how your intentionsbehind the work you do do matter
, right, people feel that fromyou and people feel the

(01:00:32):
genuineness of why you do thiswork.
People feel the genuineness ofwhy you do this work and I think
along the lines.
One of the things I want to sayis that with each work, you
cannot come into it as if you'rea savior for people.
You have to come in with it asyou're a collaborator with
people, right, people are stillthe expert of their own lives,
whether they are coming totherapy, they are coming to one
of these trainings or they're astudent in my class right, and

(01:01:00):
they're coming with their ownlens, their own perspective of
what they think they want forthemselves and wanting something
else but not knowing how to getit Right.
Or wanting to become someoneelse but afraid to do that.
And I think one of the thingsthat I've had, I've learned
through, is the art of empathyin every section.
It's the way I come in as atherapist in terms of empathy,
and what I mean by empathy isempathy has to come with a level

(01:01:21):
of accountability.
Is that?
I see you, but I also see thatyou can be better than this.
So I need to also hold youaccountable but also be
supportive of you as you gothrough this process.
And so to see the fruits ofthat labor, when people have
made significant changes withthemselves, not because you were

(01:01:42):
there but because they trustedyou to help support them in that
growth, is always for me, goingto be the reason as to why I do
this work, no matter what facetI'm in as a social worker.

Speaker 2 (01:01:52):
That's great.
Are there any forms of mediabooks, podcasts, anything that
you have consumed that havehelped you personally or
professionally?

Speaker 1 (01:02:01):
I will say one of the things the books I'm going to
tell people to read if they'regoing to social work is going to
be very unconventional.
The Subtle Art of Not Giving Upby Mark Manson, I think, is a
book for me that I wish that Ihad read that at the beginning
of my career, versus where I atone point was struggling to
figure out if I wanted to stayin social work.
And the reason why I say thatbook in particular is because

(01:02:24):
when you come into social work,many, many people come in as a
savior oh my god, I want to putthis cape on what and a lot of
that savior complex comes froman inferiority complex or
superiority complex, depending,depending where you're at right,
but it always comes with a needof feeling that you are in some
ways connected to humanity andconnected to the humanity within
you.
But I think a lot of timespeople come into social work not

(01:02:47):
asking is what are your valuesin social work?
What are your intentions insocial work?
Who do you want to be in socialwork?
Right, and I think a lot ofpeople have to unlearn the trope
of who they think they areversus allowing yourself the
experience of self-discovery ofwho you want to show up as, when
you get that master Right.

(01:03:07):
And so I think I always saythat social work is soul work,
because you have to go.
If you cannot be an advocate forsomeone else, if you're not a
self-advocate, and if you don'tknow how to self-advocate,
that's the inner work you gottado, right.
You can't be a helper if youdon't even know how to help
yourself.
You can't sit here and say thatyou wanna be, you wanna help

(01:03:28):
someone else get to a betterpart of their life, if you
operate from a place of fear andnot courage.
Right, and that requires alevel of internal work that many
people don't realize they gethit with when they get into the
actual study of social work.
I would say studying it as ascience is much different than
working in it, because there'sso much unlearning you have to
do that.

(01:03:49):
I literally tell students whenthey start you come in as Jon
Snow, you know nothing.
I don't care what wokeness youhave or TikTok university,
you've learned things fromlearning.
Things like empathy andaccountability is a development
you need to start withinyourself.
And if you cannot do that, youcannot genuinely show up in this
field without feeling burnt outwithout advocating for yourself

(01:04:11):
when you know that you cannotdo something.
And because social work, as muchas I love it, can be a very
predatory field if you don'tknow who you are in it, and
people come into this trope of Iwant to be able to come out and
save the world.
Being a part of being able tosave the world is knowing how to
know what your self-worth is,and so I always say that book in
particular, and also like, ohmy God, there's another book I

(01:04:34):
give clients around create, setboundaries, create peace by
Nidra.
Let me look at that person.
The book is somewhere in mybookshelf right now.
I don't want to run and go getit, but it's an important book.
It's an important book becauseI feel like you need to
understand what boundaries areas well, right, and so I think
when people go into social work,they need to ask themselves who

(01:04:56):
they want to be in social workand what are your limits in
terms of what you'd want to doin social work and also having a
level of honesty andself-analysis of how much can
you show up in your respectivefields.
Right, and if you can't do that,this field will burn you out
faster than a candle, burn youout faster than a candle, and

(01:05:19):
it's very important tounderstand who you are when you
may have people trying to guiltyou into because of what you do,
which I think is anoccupational hazard that people
have in here, where socialworkers is, you're overly
understanding, you're overlystepping in.
You're overly doing this, butif you don't understand from
within what your boundaries are,this field will take you and
run with you and take fulladvantage of you.
If you don't understand that,you are also worthy too, and

(01:05:44):
that's why I say you have totake away from the favorite
complex so a lot of people don'tfeel like they are.

Speaker 2 (01:05:49):
Tanika.
Is there anything else wehaven't discussed that the world
should know about you?

Speaker 1 (01:05:54):
You know that's a very heavy question.
Like well, I don't even.
I think I'm still growing andlearning myself right, and so
it's kind of like I will saythis I always tell students just
because the work we do is heavydoesn't mean you need to feel
heavy.
And so when I go into socialwork, this field is hard, but
it's a field you have to love,and that love has to resonate

(01:06:18):
from a place of self firstbefore it resonates from a place
that feeds an ego.
So I am a person that alwaysholds people accountable.
For how do you say true toyourself in this field, rather
than how you think you shouldshow up, based off what people
expect from you or you thinkpeople expect from you?
So I don't know.
I was just kind of say I'm aforever student and I love the

(01:06:43):
work that I do, and I'm going tokeep doing this work until I
can't, Until the wheels fall off.
I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:06:53):
That's great.
Well, thank you for joining ustoday.

Speaker 1 (01:06:55):
I really appreciated this conversation, yeah us now,
that's great.

Speaker 2 (01:06:56):
Well, thank you for joining us today.
Thank you, roddy, I reallyappreciated this conversation,
yeah this has been a greatconversation.
Thank you, I hope you enjoyedthis episode.
If you did and believe on themission we're on, please like,
rate and subscribe to thispodcast on whatever platform
you're using, and share thispodcast with your friends and
your networks.
Make sure you follow us onInstagram and LinkedIn at Career
Cheat Code and tell us peopleor careers you would like to see

(01:07:17):
highlighted.
See you next week with somemore cheat codes.
Peace.

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060 | The Path to Social Work feat. Tonika Boston, LCSW, SIFI

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}060 | The Path to Social Work feat. Tonika Boston, LCSW, SIFI